1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: I'm Stephen Carroll and this is Here's Why, where we 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: take one new story and explain it in just a 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: few minutes with our experts here at Bloomberg. 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: These record numbers in terms of tourism also post challenges 6 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: and we need to deal with those challenges also for 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: our own population. What we see when looking at the 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: outlook for tourism this year is that we manage reached 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: a one hundred million We are our forty nine million 10 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: inhabitants country. 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: The sound of some of the anti tourism protests in 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 2: European towns and cities in recent months and reaction from 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: Spain's Economy Minister Carlos Corpo, what large numbers of visitors 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: took places like Barcelona, Paris or Venice are nothing new. 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: The resurgence in travel after the COVID pandemic has come 16 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: with more forceful opposition from residents. In twenty twenty four, 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: European countries hosted over seven hundred and fifty million tourists, 18 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 2: up almost fifty million on the previous year. In many places, 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: that's meant a tipping point into over tourism where daily 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: life becomes unbearable for locals. So here's why summer hotspots 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: are turning against tourists. Fergus O Sullivan from Bloomberg City 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: Lab joins me now for more. Fergus Everyone loves to 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: complain about tourists in their city. But how bad is 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: the problem of over tourism in Europe. 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: Well, it's certainly bad enough that now people in tourists 26 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 3: destinations across Europe are taking to the streets to protest. 27 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 3: It's bad enough that museum workers in Paris at the 28 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: Louver have gone on strike to protest conditions because they 29 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: say the young overcrowding is unmanageable. It's also got bad 30 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: enough that tourist numbers have gone up compared to previous years. 31 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: Was a forty percent jump in arrivals in Europe between 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four. So certainly people 33 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 3: aren't just imagining this, and it's certainly true that it's 34 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 3: become a kind of a pressure cooker. 35 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: It should be said. 36 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: That this resentment over tourism may be driven as much 37 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: by exhaustion as by increases, because while tourist numbers are 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 3: projected to grow sharply, ongoing many places are actually only 39 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 3: reaching the visitor levels they experienced before the pandemic now, 40 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: so it's really as much that people can't take it 41 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 3: anymore than suddenly they're being flooded. 42 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: Ah, that's an interesting point. Just give us an idea 43 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: of what sort of places are we talking about where 44 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: we've seen the most resistance to this. 45 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: The worst place is for over tourism. I'd say fall 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 3: into three categories. So there are Mediterranean beach resorts with 47 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 3: the side order of the Canary Islands, Alpine ski villages, 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 3: and high profile historic cities, places like Barcelona, Paris. Now, 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 3: in terms of the places that are suffering most, I 50 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: suppose the place with the highest number of visitors to 51 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: residents is the Greek island of Zacinthos in the Ionian Islands, 52 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 3: and that last year got one hundred and fifty visitors 53 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: for every individual resident, which is a huge number. However, 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: it could be skewed because of course holiday islands tend 55 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: to have low year round populations because people who were 56 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 3: born there often go to the mainland to get work. 57 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: You could argue that places like Paris maybe have it 58 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 3: even worse because just the sheer concentrations they have there 59 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: So in twenty twenty four, Paris got four hundred thousand 60 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 3: tourists per square kinimeter, which is places it far far 61 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: ahead of other cities that have had similar problem concentrations, 62 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: such as Athens and Copenhagen. So I suppose those are 63 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 3: the places that are the worst. So places that are 64 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: seeing these issues. What are authorities doing about us? Well, 65 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 3: there are a lots of things that cities and local 66 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 3: governments are doing that might help to bring the situation 67 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 3: under control. They're various things. One big one is airbnb bands. 68 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: In Barcelona there will be no single legal airbnb from 69 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight, that's when the last legal license runs out, 70 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: and there are also many other cities. There've been caps 71 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: on rentable nights, which means you can't rent out a 72 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: flat on Airbnb or window or verbo for more than 73 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 3: the fixed number of nights. That's supposed to stop those 74 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 3: flats disappearing from the long term rental market, which is 75 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 3: a big problem. So that's been happening. There's also been 76 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 3: things like cruise chip bands. Cruise ships are particularly resented 77 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 3: in many cities because not only do they disgorge a 78 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 3: very large number of visitors all in one go. They 79 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 3: do so for people that have already been fed and 80 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: have somewhere to sleep for the night. So actually, in 81 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 3: terms of congestion versus hassle, they are particularly strong offenders. 82 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,119 Speaker 3: So Amsterdam is moving its cruise terminal out of town. 83 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 3: Venice has banned them from coming into the canals, so 84 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: that's another one. Finally, you'd say there were fees and taxes, 85 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 3: so Venice now actually charges on over one hundred and 86 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 3: fifty days a year for day trippers to come into 87 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 3: the city as a way of maybe managing that flow. 88 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: Amsterdam is one of the other places that charges a 89 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 3: nightly tax on accommodation that's twelve point five percent on 90 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 3: top of your hotel bill, so that's another thing. Finally, 91 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: there's a more of a promotional approach, which is just 92 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 3: to spread visitors away from hotspots, to encourage them to 93 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 3: go to less obvious places. Amsterdam again, for example, if 94 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 3: you go onto their main tourist website, I Amsterdam Now, 95 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: then their top ten sites they'll recommend would include places 96 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 3: that you haven't necessarily heard of, breweries that don't brew Heineken, 97 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 3: a castle in the suburbs, various places that they're trying 98 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 3: to get people to go that aren't you know, flower 99 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: market or around Frank's house. 100 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: So providing inspiration perhaps rather than persuasion from some of 101 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: those authorities. I mean, the big question here is, of course, 102 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: a lot of these places benefit massively economically from having 103 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: a lot of tourists. So where does the balance lie 104 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: between the money that you make from having people come 105 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: and visit where you live and the sort of problems 106 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: that we've talked about that that sort of tourism can create. 107 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 3: Well, that's a very good question. I'm not sure anyone 108 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 3: has yet been able to answer that fully. For a start, 109 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 3: most of these measures that are supposed to control tourism, 110 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 3: they may have some positive for benefits, but they don't 111 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: reduce visitor numbers, and they aren't reducing the growth of tourism. 112 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 3: So it's difficult to say if anyone's going too far, 113 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: if anyone's not going far enough. Because this whole area 114 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 3: is kind of in its infancy. It is a course 115 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 3: true on the most basic level, most of us, if 116 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: we can afford to go on holiday, we love going 117 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 3: on holiday. There is a potential for mutually beneficial cultural 118 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: exchange between people who host some people who visit. This 119 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 3: is also vital income for many many places, especially places 120 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 3: along them in Southern Europe, for example, where governments may 121 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: be quite heavily indebted and they need the extra tax income. 122 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: A lot of people rely on places such as the 123 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: Greek Islands, which are suffering under strain, for their livelihood 124 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 3: and to just pump stuff generally into the economy. So 125 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 3: of course there is value for this. There is value 126 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 3: to tourism, and there is people appreciate the income. Finding 127 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: that balance, I'm not sure where they're with a fixed 128 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: formula it. 129 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: So we've talked about the problem, we've talked about some 130 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: of the solutions or the steps that authorities are taking. 131 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: Do we have or is there a place that has 132 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: a good recipe for how to manage tourism. 133 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: I have to say that having a researched this myself, 134 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 3: I could not yet find anywhere that has truly managed 135 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: to create the right balance, partly because the demand for 136 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 3: tourism is so high and the income to be gained 137 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: from tourism is so high that most of the measures 138 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 3: designed to control it a really piecemeal. So, for example, 139 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: capping nights on Airbnb, that's very, very hard to police, 140 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: again in Barcelona, they're actually banning airbnb. That only is 141 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 3: really going to come into effect in twenty twenty eight. 142 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: There isn't yet evidence that it's necessarily easing the housing 143 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: crisis in the city, which of course has many many causes, 144 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 3: and tourism might be just one of them, And actually 145 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 3: just getting rid of tourism isn't necessarily going to sort that. 146 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: So entry fees into places like Venice, tourist taxes they 147 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 3: are maybe helping in that they allow governments to get 148 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 3: extra income to manage the effects of tourism, but they 149 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 3: don't necessarily do anything to reduce the volume of people coming. 150 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 3: There's an estimate from some research actually, I think Amsterdam 151 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 3: commissioned itself that for their overnight hotel tax to genuine 152 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: be a deterrent, it would need to be three times higher. 153 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 3: So there are problems with that. I know I'm finding 154 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: like I'm really bashing hard on these people at the moment, 155 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: But spreading visitors away from hotspots, there is evidence that 156 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: if you promote places that are less obvious destinations, numbers 157 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 3: will rise in those destinations, which could be a good thing. 158 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 3: What doesn't happen is that numbers then fall in the 159 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: places that are oversubscribed, so spreading people simply allows space 160 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 3: for more tourists to come and fill their place. 161 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: AH A tricky recipe indeed. Fergus O Sullivan from Bloomberg 162 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: City Lab thank you very much. For more explanations like 163 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 2: this from our team of three thousand journalists and analysts 164 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: around the world, go to Bloomberg dot com slash explainers. 165 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 2: I'm Stephen Carroll. This is here's why. I'll be back 166 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: next week with more. Thanks for listening.