WEBVTT - The Big Brew & A: Part 1 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:06.880 Welcome to the solid verbal hell that for me, I'm 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:08.119 a man, I'm forty. 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:10.119 I've heard so many players say, well, I want to 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:10.639 be happy. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.399 You want to be happy for day Ato steak is 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:19.360 that woo whoo? And them and Tye, welcome back to 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:21.439 the solid rub of boys and girls. My name is 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.880 Ty hilden Brandt. That fine gentleman over there, as always 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:28.760 Dan Rubinstein, sir, sure, how are your brother? 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.839 I'm always excited to speak with you, Ty, Nothing ever changes, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.519 and perhaps it's because you are my one outlet to 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.320 humanity as I sit here in a basement all day. 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:41.400 But you're a good outlet. If you're going to be 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.720 that person for me, Uh, that's pretty great. So I'm 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.839 very good. We have an incredible treasure trove of quality 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.880 questions that are both going to get released in Q 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.240 and a form to the public, and then a much longer, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.800 more detailed personal version that's will be released on verballers 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.920 dot com. So I'm excited for everybody to hopefully get 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:09.440 their questions weighed in on. And if you feel like 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.720 your question might have been weighed in on, but it's 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.360 on verballers dot com, I'm not saying you need to 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.959 sign up. That's a personal choice for you in your wallet, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.120 but maybe poke around and see what's doing over there, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.160 because we've got you pretty exciting. What it's our Our 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.840 Winter Wonders are our bowl pick on pool, it's coming up, 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.720 the stars coming. We're not of one prize with the 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:30.640 run the Board which is coming on to it. We're 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.800 not very big in pivotal week here in week fourteen, however, yeah, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:35.880 Winter Wonders is getting awfully big in the window. 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.600 Yes, we're very excited. So going out to verbalers dot 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.360 com if you want to hear the full version of this, 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.280 but a lengthy part one. Nonetheless, we'll be posted on 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:46.720 the public feed because we've got a bunch of questions. 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.800 As we typically do on these big long Q and 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.560 A episodes, we sourced questions not just from Patreon, but 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.320 also from Twitter, from Instagram, from email, really all of 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.880 the channels that we have at our disposal. We put 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.000 a call out and said, folks, give us your questions. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.080 So I've got the list in front of me, you've 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.720 got the list in front of you. This episode driven 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.360 by our good friends over at Geico. We thank them 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.160 for their tireless support all throughout this college football season. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.960 Don't forget to go on out again tibbawlers dot com 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.120 if you were ever so inclined, and again, many of 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:19.800 you are going to be listening to this. I hope 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:24.679 before Friday. We've got a live show in Atlanta. Yes, 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.600 we did, got a live show in Atlanta. I've got 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.160 my gear right over here. You can't see it on 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.720 the camera. I've got all my gear packed up nicely, neatly, youw. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.000 I need to do some tests to make sure that 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.320 we didn't break anything, because really New York got out 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.959 of hand, as you know, right. But I've got it here. 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.640 We are psyched, we are ready. We're locked on content, 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.600 which maybe is the earliest we've ever been locked on 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.720 content for a live show. Yes, it is going to 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.680 be a banger. I am excited for this. Come on 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.359 out Terminal West six thirty pm Eastern time, I believe 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.440 is start time for the show. 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:58.840 Yeah, it's it's basically a happy hour show. You can 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:00.720 still go out to dinner after, you could still have 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.840 yourself a needle. We're going to go watch the PAC 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.840 twelve championship together at a nearby bar. And by together, 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.800 I mean let's all meet up and eat some tenders 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.960 and I don't know, macaroni and cheeseballs, some potato skins. 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.320 Whatever it is we have to do, I'll have my 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.080 beer and a half or whatever it takes. It's gonna 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.080 be great. Solid Rublelive dot Com. Only a handful of 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.840 tickets left. Go check out. Go check out the tickets. 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:25.880 If you're in or around, or can you get to Atlanta. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.960 This is a big one. Let's do it. Congratulations, Skippy, 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.160 you've got mail, You've got mail on the Solid Ruble. 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:35.800 That is one of the few sound effects that we've 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.360 had on the Solid Rouble. Oh big, We've fat elbow 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.640 over there, our old sausage, fingers held and brown. It 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.520 happens sometimes. I was going to say that is one 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.840 of the few sounds that we have from day one. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.440 We never changed out the male sound. It's been with 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.160 us since twenty two thousand and eight. Yeah. I know 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.280 many of you listening are as well, so thank you 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.000 for your tireless support. Our first question, our first questions 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:03.280 come to us Curtis EJ and Brad via Patreon over 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.080 averballers dot com. EJ wants to know what is Wisconsin's 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.680 ceiling with Luke Fikele and Brad wants to know what 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.160 made Luke Fickle the right choice at Wisconsin over Jim Leonard. 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.160 This felt like Leonard's to lose. I'm not convinced he 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.760 did anything during his interim time to lose it. So 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.560 two questions there bundled together with respect to Luke Fickle. 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.239 Of course, Luke Fickle announced as the next head football 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.360 coach at Wisconsin. It's a big deal. It's a big hire. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.480 I'm not going to say it's a shock higher. But 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:33.640 we had been led to believe for a good long 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:35.760 time that there were only a handful of schools Luke 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:40.440 Fickle might leave Cincinnati four, one being obviously Ohio State, 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.560 another maybe Notre Dame, but all within that big ten footprint, right, 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.160 That was sort of what we came away believing after 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.320 the turmoil of last last season in the coach in 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.160 carousel world. So Luke Fickle has now decided to take 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.560 this job, Dan, what makes him the right choice? And 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:58.320 what's his ceiling? 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.120 It's a fascinating higher. And you know what, I thought 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.120 about it a little bit more after it happened, because 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.520 it didn't come out of nowhere, Because obviously the interest 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:08.920 in Luke Fickle has been pretty widespread these past few 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.720 years with his success at Cincinnati. I thought about Chris 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.480 Peterson right waiting for the right place, you know, had 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.760 talked to usc that was interesting, Ucla, Stanford, all over 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.760 the place, the SEC, and he wanted something that fit him, 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.760 and so he ends up at Washington, and so I 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.120 think his recruiting ceiling probably isn't as high as Chris 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.679 Peterson and what he was able to accomplish at Washington 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.720 because there's just a limited number of recruiting powers out west, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.599 and so Washington was able to take advantage. What Luke 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:42.080 Fickle brings to Wisconsin should be better recruiting than where 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.520 they were under Paul Christ. Probably similar defensive ceiling, which 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:51.160 is to say excellent, full on excellent. The difference being 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.840 Cincinnati seemed to be more of a transferred destination for 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.240 Big Ten schools for guys who didn't work out for 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.480 whatever reason. Obviously we saw Jerome four coming from Alabama, 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.920 and the other difference is the best of Desmond Ritter 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:10.520 can be attributed to whatever extent to being developed to 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.920 a playoff caliber quarterback, something we haven't seen from Wisconsin. 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.400 So I think of it is my opinion that Luke 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:23.080 Fickle is a more modern head coach than Paul Christ was, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.400 for better or worse, because there were a lot of 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.680 old school things that you know, we can sort of 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:33.640 harangue about if that's the correct There's a lot of 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.839 very old school things in terms of keeping roster together, 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.600 in terms of you know, not playing players until they 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:44.480 were ready, and it really showed with success that Wisconsin 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.240 had under Paul Christ in the trenches for a long time. 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.200 What I think Luke Fickle will do and what I 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.200 think his ceiling is is sort of I think what 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.640 it was for Mark d Antonio at Michigan State right place, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.760 right time, right defense, if I've Michigan or Penn State 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.560 or Ohio State is sort of floundering a bit. And 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.640 so that's where we were with Penn State when Mark 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.240 Dantonio was there, and to a lesser extent, Michigan when 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.000 Jim Harbaugh was relatively new, or when it was Brady 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.520 Hope Michigan Right place, right time. Wisconsin can go from 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.200 a ceiling of Big Ten championship game, but we're now 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.720 going divisionless, which makes it a little trickier for a 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.320 school like Wisconsin. I think he can get Wisconsin right place, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.320 right time, to a every so often lightning in a 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.840 bottle late season playoff conversation. If things break right, we're 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.440 talking about a playoff coach. We're talking about a coach 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.040 who has used lesser talent to beat Notre Dame on 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.680 the road, who has developed high level NFL talent, and 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.160 with the recruiting connections he has in the Midwest. I 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:52.200 do not think it's unfair for Wisconsin fans to expect 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:57.160 competing for the Big ten crown every so often and 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:02.080 being a double digit program, doubled win program right more 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:02.840 often than not. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.040 How about that, Well, you have to figure if he 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.679 can take Cincinnati to the playoffs, he get one hundred 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:13.000 percent get Wisconsin there, especially friend schedule, different schedule, difference schedule, 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.600 but especially in an expanded universe. Remember we're going to 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.480 twelve here in a matter of two to three years. 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.640 So with so many pieces already in place, the programs, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.360 I think at a relatively good spot, it helps to 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.360 have the bones of a good defense, which they do 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.360 have now as a starting point somewhat not as much, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.439 but not as much as before, but still it's not 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.559 starting from scratch here. I think he makes them competitive 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.360 more competitive right away. It may take some time to 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.960 get the right skill guys in place, but I think 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.280 this is a slam dunk higher over the long haul. 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.240 And to the question that Brad was asking, why not 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.520 Jim Leonard, I think that is the that is the 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.439 point there. Yeah, Luke Fickle's done this for a while. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.200 Luke Fickle has I've got his record here. Has been 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.679 very successful, to say the least, fifty seven in eighteen 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.920 as a head football coach. But eight of those losses 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.960 came in year one when he was starting over, right 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:07.719 when he was basically starting over. So this is a 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:09.480 guy who's proven that he can build a program, that 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.440 he can do it over the long haul. Jim Leonard 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.439 will probably could probably do that for somebody else, but 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.800 Luke Fickle is much more of a known quantity at this. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.480 He also, Yeah, you're You're totally right. And the Athletic 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.800 had a piece a couple of years ago. I believe 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.040 about Luke Fickel as a recruiter and how much he 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.679 blanketed the state of Ohio, And so we talked about this. 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.040 Cincinnati recruited on par with like a mid tier Power 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.559 five program, Yes, and so, which makes sense given the 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.760 success he had in the NFL players that were developed 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.599 at Cincinnati. And so, what I expect for Wisconsin on 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.720 the recruiting trail is for Luke Fickele to be tireless 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.360 in the state of Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, wherever talent 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.120 is in the Midwestern footprint and continue to you know, 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.800 you know, Wisconsin has had success. You know, Graham Mertz 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:04.800 is from Kansas. I believe they've gone outside of the 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.360 Midwestern footprint to recruits somewhat. But if there was a 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.240 criticism of Paul Christ near the end that didn't have 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.360 to do with the offense and lack of improvement and 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:18.160 development of receivers, et cetera, et cetera, It was that 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.600 recruiting was not taken as seriously as the teams Wisconsin 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:27.199 positions itself against in Madison. And so I think that 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.640 has already changed. That changed the second Luke Fickle and 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.080 that plane touchdown in Madison. Yeah, I mean, let's forget 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.439 about the ceiling for a second. If I could, at 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:36.680 a minimum, I don't think you have to. 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.480 Worry about lowering the floor, which was sort of the 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.000 conversation we started to get into. With the way things 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:46.000 headed now with Wisconsin over the last year year and 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.040 a half, I think you'll see consistent results the way 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.839 Wisconsin fans are accustomed to seeing consistent results. I think 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.280 you will see strong defense in the way that Wisconsin 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.000 fans are used to seeing a very strong defense. In course, 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.920 maybe it needs a bit of repair, but it'll get there. 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.959 With Luke Fickley's that kind of coach. You will absolutely 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.480 see that improvement on offense as well, because Fickle has 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.880 shown in his time at Cincinnati that he can adapt 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.040 to the personnel. We saw him do it this season 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.760 right immense turnover on offense. They it wasn't as good 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.920 of an offense, but it was still very very reputable 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.199 and still very very solid, and still very much of 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.800 the conversation for the best group of five team. I 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.360 don't think it bears repeating, but part of the problem 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.120 with the Paul Christ offense is that it was very 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:32.559 rigid and pretty stubborn. So just marginal improvements on that 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.400 front on offense make Wisconsin a much much better team, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.520 certainly within the Big Ten West. Now as it stands, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.480 I know that's going away, but Fickle will improve that 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.319 side of the ball ever so gradually, and I think 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.520 that's what will ultimately raise that floor, make the ceiling 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.160 more attainable for the Wisconsin Badgers. I also think, and 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.880 we didn't mention this, this strikes the perfect balance between 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.400 one needing new blood and two not sacrificing your identity 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.920 to get it. I agree. Luke Fickle feels to me 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.000 like he's that happy medium where it's more of a 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:09.000 firmware upgrade as opposed to a full on new operating system, 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:10.839 which is really what you want when you're going after 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.600 a new head coach, someone that feels like your program 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.600 but isn't going to go so drastically in a different 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.800 direction that it's going to be new and different and 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:20.920 it's going to take a while to actually see the 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:22.839 results of it. So I love the hire. I think 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:24.400 it's a slam dunk, as do I. 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.520 And we'll also mention though he is not a Wisconsin 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.440 guy and so measured against that. I know somebody asked, 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.160 why not Jim Leonard, you know, in comparing Luke Fickle 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.720 to Jim Leonard. Jim Leonard has coached I think at 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.640 precisely one school school at which he played. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.800 Is that correct? You can in fact check that for me. 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.280 I believe that that is my understanding that he has 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.240 only coach at Wisconsin. He's a younger dude, late thirties, 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.280 round forty something like that. Not crazy young, not Charlie 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.960 Weiss junior young at twenty eight or nine or whatever. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:59.120 But why Luke Fickle. Luke Fickle has proven himself exactly 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.880 as an excellent head coach, and so I know there 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.240 has been this run of coaches. I guess Gary Anderson exempted, 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.440 I forget, but I don't think he was at Wisconsin 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.320 on any level, meaningful level before, you know, jumping from 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.679 Utah State to Wisconsin. But obviously Brett Bielham as a 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.000 defensive coordinator at Wisconsin, Paul crist As an offensive coordinator 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:23.839 at Wisconsin that the romantic Wisconsin guy move would be 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.839 to elevate Jim Leonard, and I don't think Wisconsin was 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.480 against it, but I think they probably needed to be 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:34.920 told no by Luke Fickle and maybe somebody else before saying, okay, 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.200 let's roll the dice. This guy understands, you know, what works, 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.000 what doesn't work, the culture whatever at Wisconsin. But if 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.600 you are the Badgers. Not to say Jim Leonard would 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.200 have been settling because he got to audition for the role, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.840 and I'm sure he ingratiated himself really well to those 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.560 in power there. But if you if you see yourself 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.360 as a team competing for Rose Bulls, which Wisconsin should 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.160 you owe it to go for the biggest names who 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.920 will listen and sit in a room with you. You 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.199 owe it to the fan base, you owe it to 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.320 the program. And I think it's going to work. 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.439 Really really, I really like the higher and I think 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.320 you hit the point that is very very important there 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.920 for Wisconsin fans. Though it would have been the romantic 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.520 thing to elevate Leonard, Luke Fickle is much more of 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.040 a sure thing at this point. Like there's a very 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.640 very low degree of risk here associated with Luke Fickel 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.480 as compared to let me get into the next question 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:36.000 pro transition, Dan, we're podcasters after all. Kelsey Cardinal Hello 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.760 Kelsey on Instagram says I'm an Auburn alum. How should 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:44.160 I feel about Hugh Freeze? So this is a different 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.200 conversation altogether when we talk about Hugh Freeze, much like 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.040 this episode, there are football elements and non football elements 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.680 that we need to consider here. On the football field, 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.120 Hugh Freeze has gone eighty three and forty three and 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.080 ten seasons. It's pretty good. Notably, he's had one losing 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.400 season out of those ten. I believe his last season 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.520 when he was in Oxford before things fell apart at 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.400 Old Miss. He's a pretty good football coach. I don't 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.800 view this as something that makes Auburn as a sudden 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.080 threat in the SEC SEC West because the West is 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.080 a lot harder now than it was when he left. 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.520 But he's a good football coach. He's a good football coach. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.640 The numbers would bear that out off the field. Off 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.680 the field, Look, I can't tell you how to feel there. Right, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.400 he was run out of Ole Miss for recruiting violation. 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.120 He does a pretty good job telling you how to 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.560 feel about Hugh Freese as a person. Continue exactly the 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:41.840 recruiting violations. There was also that, shall we say, scandalous 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:43.960 pattern of phone calls that came to light. 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.200 With his call logue. Well it wasn't just the calls, 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.440 but yeah, right, I mean there are things with direct 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:56.000 messages to sexual assault victims in his time at Liberty, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.160 so there's like a whole slew of off field stuff, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.840 and you know, we kind of have to consider that 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.400 as well when we're looking at whether or not this 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.440 is a higher worth making. I'd imagine the off field 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.600 stuff is part of the reason why Auburn had it 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.080 written into his contract that he had to relinquish rights 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.160 to his social media account before accepting the job. They 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.960 also needed to consult with a pr person before making 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.280 the higher, So of course, again there's a duality there. 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.760 There's two things going on at once. There is the 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.120 on field stuff, which for sure has been successful. There's 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.240 the off field stuff, which is definite baggage. Personally, if 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.440 we're talking about the low risk nature of the Luke 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.480 Fickle higher, personally, I don't think the Hugh Freeze risk 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.440 is worth taking because Auburn has had two years of 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:47.400 relative instability now preceded by what three years of more 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.440 instability in a sense of uncertainty. Let's say when they 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.600 finally got rid of Gus Valson, they knew they wanted 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.120 to get rid of them, but it's the will they 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.280 won't They think that took forever until it finally came 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.720 to fruition. Now they're high and a guy who they're 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.920 obviously banking on him cleaning up his act, but they 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.959 did have to hire the PR person to tell them 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.600 how to feel first and what to do in light 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.800 of the announcement. On some level, there is the Taylor 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:16.040 Swift Jake Gillenhall knowing somebody is trouble before they walk in. 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.040 And I'm not saying people don't deserve second chances, Dan, 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.560 but I'm just saying that Auburn does not feel like 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.360 the program, given where it's been lately, that should take 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.280 that risk at this moment. So, Kelsey, I can't tell 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:30.520 you how to feel, but if it were me, I 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:31.320 wouldn't be pleased. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.160 Auburn does not feel he's a grown up, right Auburn, 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.000 And this isn't This is interesting because there are certain 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:44.080 radioactive coaches that you can say to yourself, sure, this 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.240 guy is a problem, but you know he gets results. 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:47.600 Right. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.880 Sure, if we hire urban Meyer, it's not a great look. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.240 But there's nothing about urban Meyer on the sideline and 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:01.960 recruiting and running up program football wise that would lead 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.159 you to believe that that program would be anything less 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.160 than the absolute best it could be. If urban Meyer 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.600 took over Texas Tech. If he took over Washington State, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.800 if he took over cal if he took over NC State, whatever, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.159 they'd win ten or eleven games every year. Yeah, and 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.880 so that's the deal you make because you know, Urban 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.320 Meyer is that good of a college football coach, or 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.080 at least we believe that to still be the case. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:27.160 Hugh Freeze. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:32.480 Yeah, Hugh Freeze is where like he had a nice 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.920 little run. I don't care about the NCAA stuff. You know, 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.960 things have changed in terms of NIL and sure you 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.440 know the way money and recruiting, and even though it 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:46.879 isn't necessarily the spirit of NIL that bothers me to 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.159 a much lesser extent, I'm okay with with a lot 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:54.320 of those things. But off the field, and the fact 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:58.119 remains that Auburn I'll reiterate this with the social media stuff, 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.520 with whatever, It's clear that Hugh Freeze does not have 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.119 a command in a daily sense of being a grown up. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.600 And this is already a place that has difficulties behind 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.919 the scenes with power struggles and with who's making decisions 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:19.160 and paying attention to perhaps the wrong boosters to make 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.720 big decisions or have sway. And now you're throwing this 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:28.000 little cherry bomb into the mix. Yeah, I know that 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.160 Laane Kiffen was their first choice. And it's very clear 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.040 that Auburn is not a place a lot of good 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.359 coaches want to continue their career and continue to build. 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.840 That much is clear, and that much has come to 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.200 pass over these past few years where they have to 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.520 go so far outside of you know, the SEC universe 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.640 and hiring Brian Harson and Jean Chizy all these guys, 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:49.520 Gus finally made sense for them. 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:55.120 But you freeze, Okay, I don't know what this does. 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.960 We talk about a ceiling with Wisconsin, what does this 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.600 mean for Auburn's ceiling? Like the offense will get better, 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.960 probably they'll recruit better, but like you know, it's going 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.800 to blow up, probably sooner rather than later. They already 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:12.840 don't trust them so great. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.040 I just don't think it's worth the risk. I think, 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:18.760 on some level, like everybody wants to win. You're in 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.920 the SEC and it's gotten harder to win, so I 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.800 understand the value in taking a risk. I just don't 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:27.560 think this is the risk right that they should be 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:29.720 taking at this time, given where the program's been. You 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.320 want a sure thing, you want to slam dunk. I 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.200 don't think you want to have to deal with that baggage. 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.680 You don't have to worry about that. And again I 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.240 come back to what you said for Hugh Freeze. It's 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.560 one thing of it's Urban Meyer, right, Hugh Freeze. We're 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.200 gonna We're gonna do this for Hugh Freeze. 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:48.879 By the way, the negative recruiting fodder that LSU Texas 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:53.920 A and m Alabama, Georgia, Florida, everybody Tennessee has with 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.879 Hugh Freeze and Auburn, with everything that happened with Brian Harson. 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.280 Now everything that has already happened in the Hugh Freeze universe, 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:09.480 the free universe, the Hugh Freeze multiverse, multiverse, cinematic universe, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:15.920 multiverse madness. It's it's a costco sized shopping cart of ammunition. 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.720 That's all Allan on Patreon wants to know who leaves 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.920