1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of couch 2 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcasts. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 2: My name is Kat. 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: I am the host, and if you are unfamiliar with 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: what couch Talks is, it is the special bonus episode 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: of You Need Therapy where I answer questions that you 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: guys send to me and you can send those to 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Now, quick 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: reminder before we get into today's question that although this 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's called You 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: Need Therapy, it does not serve as a replacement or 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: substitute for any actual mental health services. However, we always 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: hope that it can help you in some way. So 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: we usually do one question a week on couch Talks, 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: and I always keep them anonymous, so if you are 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: wanting to send something in, you can do that knowing 17 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: that I'll never. 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: Reveal who you are. I will just read what you 19 00:00:58,640 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: send me. 20 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: Mind, when you are writing your emails, which some of 21 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: you end up still giving me pretty detailed stories, and 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: some of you, like today's listener, just give me kind 23 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: of the bare bones, which is fine because I think 24 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: those emails still give a space to have conversations about 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: the themes that are inside of them. So let's get 26 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: into today's email. Here it is, Hey, Kat, perfectionist people, please, 27 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: you're over here. I am writing to see if you 28 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: can help me with some of the negative self talk 29 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: I can't seem to get out of my head. 30 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: More recently, in lieu of giving you my entire. 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: Life story, I have realized through lots of therapy that 32 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: a lot of my value and worth has been found 33 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: in my performance, in what I can create or produce. 34 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: I'm now in my forties and I'm exhausted, but I 35 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: also can't seem to stop the cycle I'm in because 36 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to feel like I'm not good enough. 37 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: If I have to choose between feeling worthy and valued 38 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: or rested, I am definitely going to choose feeling worthy 39 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: and valued. And yes I'm talking still to my therapist 40 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: about this, but I'm curious of what your thoughts are. 41 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: If my performance is no longer what makes me valuable, 42 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: what will be? So? Like I said, not a lot 43 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: of details in here, but we get the gist of it, 44 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: and I think this is a theme that a lot 45 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: of us are going. 46 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: To relate to in some way. 47 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: Now this is a loaded question, so loaded that I 48 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: don't really know where to start. I also don't know 49 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: if this is an answerable question, but I guess I'll 50 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: start with figuring out and talking about what valuable and 51 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: worthy even mean. I think there is so much space 52 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: for this to mean different things depending on who you are, 53 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: and I also think there is a difference with the 54 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: context of which we're talking about these things. So being 55 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: valuable as a human being and being valuable in a 56 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: certain circumstance are two different things, in my opinion, and 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: an easy way to describe that is, for example, I 58 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: cannot dive. I can do a running front flip into 59 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: a pool, but for whatever reason, I never learned how 60 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: to dive, So that means when I was on the 61 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: swim team when I was younger. I think I was 62 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: on the swim team in elementary school. I must have 63 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: quit before I got to middle school, but I it 64 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: could have been sixth grade. But that means when I 65 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: was on the swim team when I was whether I 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: was in elementary school, middle school, I would basically cannon 67 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: ball into the pool and then start swimming, So I 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: can understand why I wouldn't really be a great asset 69 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: to the swim team. According to my swimming abilities, I 70 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: was not the most valuable team member if the goals 71 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: were as a team centered around winning and being competitive, 72 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: because I couldn't do one of the most basic parts 73 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: of swimming, which is probably why. Also backstroke was my 74 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: favorite because you got to jump in the pool and 75 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: you didn't have to dive to start. But regardless like 76 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: couldn't dive, wasn't the most valuable player team member swimmer. 77 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: That was not going to be a award that I 78 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: would be winning per my skills. Now, if the team's 79 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: goals were about having fun, maybe I would have more 80 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: to bring to the table and I would be more 81 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: valuable in that circumstance, But that generally was not the 82 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: goal on the swim swim team that I was on, 83 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: And I think that we can apply that in different spaces. 84 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 2: There are places where I have. 85 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: A lot more value to bring to that team, to 86 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: bring to that environment, to bring to that circumstance that 87 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: is different than my value that is found in having 88 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: human life being a human life, and that goes along 89 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: the lines with how I've talked about on here before. 90 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: I don't think we need to belong everywhere. I think 91 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: that we can try to fit in everywhere, but we 92 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: don't necessarily belong everywhere, and that's okay, just like I 93 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: don't think we need to be valuable in every situation 94 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: or in every group, like. 95 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 2: It is okay. 96 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: That does not mean that you as a human being 97 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: have no value or have no worth or belong nowhere. 98 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: And that's hard for a lot of people that have 99 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: this black or white, all or nothing thinking. 100 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: And it's also hard when we are told and. 101 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: Taught that that isn't the case, that we shouldn't feel 102 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: that way, and I think a lot of that is 103 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: done accidentally. Regardless, it's still not helpful. So that idea 104 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: is not what we're talking about when we're looking at 105 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: our inherent worthiness. This is something that we actually can't measure, 106 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: and I think that is a problem for a lot 107 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: of people because we as humans really like things to 108 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: be measurable and we like things to be easily defined 109 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: and this it's just not that. That's not what this is. 110 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: And it's why this comes up over and over and 111 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: over and over again in the therapy world is because 112 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: again we like things to be definable and measurable. We 113 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: like to have smart goals, and we tend also to 114 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: ask the same questions over and over and over again 115 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: until we get an answer that we actually like and 116 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: feels like it makes sense to us and is satisfying 117 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: to us. It's the same idea I'm thinking about as 118 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: a kid asking your mom. 119 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 2: Or dad, but why? But why? But why? But why? 120 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: I feel like I got in one of those battles 121 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: with one of my nieces the other day where they 122 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: asked to do something and I said, oh, I'm not 123 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: going to do that, but why because I don't want to? 124 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: But why? 125 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: Because bah blah blah blah, But why because? And then 126 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: finally it's like, oh, my gosh, because I said so. 127 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: I think as humans, we're constantly trying to put puzzle 128 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: pieces together, and we want to have a puzzle that 129 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: has all the pieces, and we want the pieces to 130 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: be really easy to fit together, and we want the 131 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: picture that the puzzle makes to be really beautiful, and 132 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: we just want it to work that way, and sometimes 133 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't work that way, and that's hard to sit with. 134 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: I believe, and it doesn't have to be what anybody else. 135 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: Believes, but I believe that there is just inherent worth 136 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: and being a human being, having life, and we don't 137 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: get to bargain or change this. It is a fixed 138 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: thing that comes just with being born. And there's also 139 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: a part of me that believes that this fight for 140 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: worth and value is also a consequence, or maybe rather 141 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: a symptom of a society that thrives on hierarchies. And 142 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: if we really do, or if we did believe that 143 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: we're all created equal, this place would look very different. Now. 144 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: Someone else's opinion or idea of you, or judgment of you, 145 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: even your own idea or opinion and judgment of you, 146 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: doesn't really change what actually is, which is you just 147 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: get to have this fixed worth that we all get 148 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: for having a life, for being a human being. And 149 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: this only changes if you decide it does. This only 150 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: changes if you co sign whatever it is that different 151 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: parts of the world, or people in your life, or 152 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: a version of you decides it only changes if you 153 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: agree with that. And I honestly think that sometimes when 154 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: we diminish our worth, it's because even when it feels 155 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: bad to lower our worthiness, it still feels soothing in 156 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: a sense to pretend that we have some kind of 157 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 1: control over what our worth is. I see this over 158 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: and over as as more really a crisis of control 159 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: and not a crisis of finding value and worth, because 160 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: when I let go of my hand and deciding how 161 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: others see me, that's really scary, it's uncomfortable, and it's 162 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: borderline intolerable for a lot of us. Going back to 163 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: this original question, I don't really know what's going to 164 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: make you valuable if you aren't producing or performing or 165 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: doing what you've been doing your whole life. I guess 166 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: I also don't know if being valuable is really what 167 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: you are needing to be. I'm curious what you are 168 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: really looking for, what you're really searching for, and if 169 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: it's something that you don't currently have, then my real 170 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: question would be are you willing to sit in discomfort 171 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: to get it? I went to a training recently and 172 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: the instructor said that she no longer strives for above 173 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: and beyond. Her goals are now below and within range. 174 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: And when she said that, I felt like someone gave 175 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: a big hug to my soul. We are allowed to 176 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: be satisfied with whatever level of anything we decide. 177 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: We're allowed to be that. 178 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,599 Speaker 1: Now, that doesn't mean everything around us is going to 179 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: match up with that, and I think that's a lot 180 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: of the discomfort. I start to question myself when everybody 181 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: isn't co signing the things that I want them to 182 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: co sign, So then I start to co sign their stuff. 183 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: And what I have learned and what has been helpful 184 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: for me, again that doesn't have to be everybody else, 185 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: is that if I am actually allowing myself to decide 186 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: what fits for me, that also may mean that being 187 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: my best is not synonymous with being the best, and 188 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: that goes against some of the messages I was taught 189 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: growing up. And sometimes that feels a little scary, and 190 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: sometimes I start to question, like am I the crazy one? 191 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: And then I remember, that's the part of me that 192 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: wants to have my hand on the controller of everybody 193 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: else's thoughts and beliefs and judgments of me. So that's 194 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: my way of talking about this big, loaded, possibly unanswerable question, 195 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: and I hope it brought up some thoughts in you 196 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: that can be helpful and that you can bring back 197 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: to the therapy that you're already doing and work through 198 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: this stuff. 199 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: It's tough stuff. 200 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: Like I said, there's no encyclopedia or dictionary or you know, 201 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: Wikipedia to tell us the answer of this stuff. 202 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 2: Which would be really convenient. 203 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: Anyway, that's going to do it for today. If you 204 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: guys have thoughts, feelings, feedback, what have you, you can 205 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: send that to Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. 206 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: You can follow me at cat dot defada and the 207 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: podcast at You Need Therapy Podcast on Instagram and I 208 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: will be back with you guys on Monday for. 209 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 2: A new episode. Until then, I hope you have the 210 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: day you need to have.