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Speaker 1: Welcome to had of money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: at and today we're declaring that financial independence exists on

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Speaker 1: a spectrum.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that you said declaring because it makes

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Speaker 2: me think of the Declaration of Independence as well. What

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Speaker 2: was supposed to make you think of? Of course, this is

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Speaker 2: the fourth of July week. Happy belated fourth of July.

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Speaker 2: Fourth of July was yesterday. Hopefully you were able to

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Speaker 2: take some time off celebrate the fact that we no

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Speaker 2: longer have to pay taxes without representation. Instead we pay

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Speaker 2: taxes with representation.

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Speaker 1: But yes, I hope everyone more like some swimwear that

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Speaker 1: had the United States flag on it, set out some fireworks,

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Speaker 1: drank a really chrommy beer. That's the only day that

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Speaker 1: it's really acceptable.

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Speaker 2: But this also anytime we get we start getting close

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Speaker 2: to the fourth of July towards Independence Day, it does

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Speaker 2: make us think about financial independence. And today we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about some of the I think some different

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Speaker 2: levels of financial independence that we think are going to

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Speaker 2: be helpful. We're not talking about like Barista fire that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing, but some more practical levels of five

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Speaker 2: that we think are going to be incredibly helpful. As

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Speaker 2: you are on your path towards some sense of financial freedom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like the stepping stones along the way. And when

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Speaker 1: you can identify those stepping stones, it makes a big

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Speaker 1: difference in how you perceive moving along that path. And

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Speaker 1: not only that, not only in like the psychological rum,

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Speaker 1: but it makes a difference in the actions you can

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Speaker 1: take along the way too.

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Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. Should we have called it the stepping stones

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Speaker 2: of financial independence? They a little more, a little more tame.

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Speaker 2: But okay, So last week we had an ask how

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Speaker 2: to money question that we answered and a listener was

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Speaker 2: asking about how he can negotiate some medical bills and

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Speaker 2: we specifically mentioned Healthcare blue Book. How it's the site

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Speaker 2: that you can go check out compare the prices of

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Speaker 2: some different procedures. Well, listener Kayla, she actually talked about

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Speaker 2: how she was able to use this other website it's

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Speaker 2: called md save. Yeah. She sent us an email.

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Speaker 1: By the way, and anytime ye've got cracker jack information

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Speaker 1: on the personal finance front, she just an email. I

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Speaker 1: had a money pop wemail dot com. A.

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Speaker 2: We just love knowing what's out there, but mostly because

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Speaker 2: so that we can turn around and share it with you.

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Speaker 2: All of our listeners out there, but she said she

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Speaker 2: was able to pay three times less for an MRI

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Speaker 2: than basically what the average rate of that procedure was going.

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Speaker 1: To cost there where she lives. So it's amazing, a

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Speaker 1: massive win. It's hard but not impossible to comparison shop

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Speaker 1: healthcare procedures, and so I love that another website is

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Speaker 1: out there trying to make this opaque area a little

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Speaker 1: bit easier. So big props, big thanks to listener Kayla

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Speaker 1: for mentioning this, and hopefully everybody else can find mdsave

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Speaker 1: dot com a helpful resource. We'll link to it in

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Speaker 1: our show notes for this episode. But right man, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things where I wish it were simpler.

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Speaker 1: I wish it was like Google Shopper kind of thing

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Speaker 1: for healthcare, but they kind of MD save is kind

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Speaker 1: of like they kind of make it like that exactly,

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Speaker 1: so over time as more folks know about it, Like

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Speaker 1: that's what makes Google Shop or Amazon so ubiquitous, is

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Speaker 1: the fact that so many people use it, And it's

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Speaker 1: just the fact that not a lot of people know

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Speaker 1: about some of these different websites.

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Speaker 2: So again, mdsave dot com, Healthcare blue Book. Check them out,

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Speaker 2: especially if you have a non life threatening emergency a

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Speaker 2: procedure that that you have to get done. But Joel,

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Speaker 2: let's introduce.

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Speaker 1: Our beer all nine one one, or go directly to

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Speaker 1: the hospital if you know something like threatening is happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to be cheap, right, But if

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Speaker 2: it's one of those things.

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Speaker 1: Where're like, I got to do this sometime in the

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Speaker 1: next three six months, then you have time to shop.

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Speaker 2: You got time to be frugal. Our beer. This episode

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Speaker 2: is by Big Ditch Brewing Company and it's called Hey Burner.

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Speaker 2: It is an American IPA. Looking forward to to sharing

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Speaker 2: this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listeners, Liz and Tyler actually sent this one our way.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: They're Buffalo Bills fans apparently, so I don't really care

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Speaker 1: much about the NFL these days, but I hear the

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Speaker 1: Bills are good, so are they. I'm happy for Lizen Tyler.

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Speaker 1: Good for them, and maybe I'll root for them because

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Speaker 1: the Falcons are always bad. But let's move on, mat,

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Speaker 1: let's get to the subject at hand. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: financial independence and how it exists on a spectrum, the

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Speaker 1: stepping stones really of financial independence, and it makes me

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Speaker 1: think speaking of sports, talking about football, this topic made me.

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Speaker 1: Think about the home run obsession of nineteen ninety eight

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Speaker 1: that took over the whole country. You were alive then,

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Speaker 1: we were like fourteen years old or over that, right, Wow, No.

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Speaker 2: You were older than that. You were probably sixteen. I

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Speaker 2: was fourteen ninety eight. Yep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well but Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire, those are

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Speaker 1: the two eyeballs on those two guys more than anybody else.

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Speaker 1: And granted, yes, it was all fueled by steroids and

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Speaker 1: corked baths and.

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Speaker 2: Stuff like that. But home runs, well, we didn't know

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Speaker 2: it at the time, and you're like ruining all the fun.

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Speaker 1: So we all thought it was great and it was good,

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Speaker 1: wholesome fun whenn't really not quite. But yeah, the home

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Speaker 1: runs kind of became the only meaningful metric in the

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Speaker 1: sport of baseball, which in my mind, actually made it

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Speaker 1: a whole lot more boring. A lot of people were

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Speaker 1: super into it. I thought the opposite was true, because doubles,

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Speaker 1: stolen bases, shoe string catches, that to me is the

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Speaker 1: fun stuff about baseball. The four hundred and fifty foot bomb, though,

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Speaker 1: especially when it's done on repeat, it gets boring after

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Speaker 1: a while. I get that it's you know, it's like okay,

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Speaker 1: because we'll sit there and watch the Daytota five hundred.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Americans, Yeah, the same thing happening over now.

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Speaker 1: That's why Formula one is more interesting than Nascar. I agree,

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Speaker 1: don't shoot the messenger, but the home run really is

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Speaker 1: an all or nothing approach. And some folks they take

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Speaker 1: that same approach to financial independence. They come up with

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Speaker 1: a fine number right in amount they need to save

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Speaker 1: up in order to bag work completely. But the truth

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Speaker 1: is financial independence exists on more of a spectrum. It

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Speaker 1: is not an all or nothing thing, and we believe

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Speaker 1: that thinking about it in that way is going to

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Speaker 1: help you from a mental and from a financial perspective.

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Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. Plus, nothing is more American than talking about baseball.

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Speaker 2: Forget the Formula one comment, everybody out there. It's a

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Speaker 2: good example here with the baseball analogy. And actually, we

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Speaker 2: just went to our our first Brands game of the

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Speaker 2: year the other nights. We had a great time. Speaking

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Speaker 2: of home runs, Bray's been hitting a lot of home

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Speaker 2: runs lately. Yeah, they had an insane number of them

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Speaker 2: last month, right, But go big or go home, like,

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Speaker 2: it's got a certain ring to it. Right, like a

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Speaker 2: nice rallying cry, but it's also not really all that practical.

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Speaker 2: And one of the problems with that go big or

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Speaker 2: go home approach is that it can make when it

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Speaker 2: comes to money and we're talking about financial independence here,

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Speaker 2: is that it can make financial independence seem unattainable, that

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Speaker 2: it is just out of reach of the typical American.

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Speaker 2: It's all or nothing, and because of that, you're going

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Speaker 2: to have to put your nose to the grindstone for

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Speaker 2: a long stinking time before you can accomplish that goal

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Speaker 2: or if something like another problem too is like if

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Speaker 2: something is unattainable and you just feel or believe that

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Speaker 2: you can't do it, what do you do? Typically you

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Speaker 2: give up? Right, It's kind of the other side of

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Speaker 2: the coin here, but it can be I think, just

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Speaker 2: as disheartening. But what if you thought about financial independence

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Speaker 2: as a spectrum instead something that you are gradually achieving

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Speaker 2: more of. We think that that is a healthy approach

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Speaker 2: that is also going to accelerate your progress.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it deserves a brief mention here,

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Speaker 1: real quick math that money is not the only kind

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Speaker 1: of wealth. That is this is how to money. We

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Speaker 1: talked about money a lot.

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Speaker 2: But this is like the disclaimer before we launch into

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Speaker 2: credit card benefits their credit card rewards exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously that's what we focus on on the show.

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Speaker 1: But wealth is really I guess if you're going to

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Speaker 1: give it, it's the most basic definition would be something

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Speaker 1: like an abundance of resources. And that doesn't specifically have

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Speaker 1: to mean US dollars, right, I mean, it can mean

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of things. And even though we want

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Speaker 1: How to Money listeners to become wealthy from a money perspective,

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Speaker 1: building up savings and investments, we also want you to

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Speaker 1: enjoy wealth and abundance in all those sectors of.

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Speaker 2: Your life that matter.

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Speaker 1: And so the truth is focusing intently on money as

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Speaker 1: the only source of wealth that you care about that

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Speaker 1: will likely prevent you from attaining wealth in other important areas.

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Speaker 1: So there's this recent Schwab survey Matt about how people

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Speaker 1: perceive wealth and if they found that the wealth looks

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Speaker 1: a lot more like not having to stress over money

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Speaker 1: than having a lot of money, which I think speaks

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Speaker 1: exactly to what we're talking about here, a Scrooge McDuck

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Speaker 1: esque amount of money so that you can swim in it.

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Speaker 1: Is not really what people are after. Most people are

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Speaker 1: after not stressing about money. And that is the cool

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Speaker 1: thing I think about this spectrum is that it destresses

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Speaker 1: you and how you relate to your finances more and

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Speaker 1: more over time. And so that's a better way of

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Speaker 1: thinking about growing your wealth than amassing the biggest number possible.

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Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. And even outside of the arena of money, though, like,

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Speaker 2: there are other aspects of life that we think that

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Speaker 2: are important to focus on. Like recently, I think we've

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Speaker 2: talked about the different arenas of life, and actually even

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Speaker 2: more recently, I've come across this framework or this approach

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Speaker 2: to life. It's called the spire approach. I have you

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Speaker 2: ever heard of that?

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Speaker 1: Have you?

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Speaker 2: It stands for and it's again it kind of divides

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Speaker 2: your life into different sectors whatever it talks about, like

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Speaker 2: the spiritual, the physical, the intellectual, relationships, emotional. We want

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Speaker 2: to find health in all of these areas in life

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Speaker 2: and what And this was based on research done somewhat recently.

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Speaker 2: But what was interesting about it is that there are

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Speaker 2: lots of different folks who have thought hard and done

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Speaker 2: research into this, and they all kind of come back

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Speaker 2: to these same things. And so it's not like this

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Speaker 2: some new fad or something like that. This is something

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Speaker 2: that rings true I think for all of this. And

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Speaker 2: what was really interesting though, is that money was very

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Speaker 2: much absent from that lineup. And so does that mean

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Speaker 2: we're going to stop talking about money here on the show. No,

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Speaker 2: of course not, because obviously being financially secure allows you

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Speaker 2: to achieve health in a lot of these different areas

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Speaker 2: in life. It's a tool, but oftentimes it can become

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Speaker 2: the focus. You know, it's a tool that we think

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Speaker 2: is the end. I'll be all as opposed to a

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Speaker 2: means to an end. And so it's worth pointing out

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Speaker 2: that though overall on the show here at How to

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Speaker 2: Money we talk about personal finances, ultimately what we are

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Speaker 2: pushing you to do is to focus on some of

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Speaker 2: these other areas in life that ring true to you,

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Speaker 2: because they're going to be more that are more important

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Speaker 2: to you than the next guy.

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Speaker 1: And that's where this step stone approach makes a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of sense, because instead of viewing it as I

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Speaker 1: gotta have a mass one point seven million dollars to

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Speaker 1: actually be financially independent, you're focus then is probably too

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Speaker 1: much on money, money, money, and if you can see

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Speaker 1: it on the stepping stone. Oh, I just made more perker,

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Speaker 1: so I got a little more further thrown this distrection off.

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Speaker 1: I'm achieving more financial independence. It can allow you to

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Speaker 1: be less focused on money overall, which I think is

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Speaker 1: a good thing.

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Speaker 2: It's not just and it shouldn't be that you're just

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Speaker 2: working your butt off until you can finally retire, right

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Speaker 2: potentially when you're far less able to actually enjoy the

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Speaker 2: fruits of your labor, because there are other aspects of

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Speaker 2: health that you have neglected. Specifically, I'm referring to physical

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Speaker 2: health in.

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Speaker 1: This case, your nose of the grindstone. Working sixty hours

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Speaker 1: a week, you're missing out on the relational and then

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Speaker 1: the relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, there's all of those areas of life

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Speaker 2: within that spire framework can suffer if you are overly

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Speaker 2: focused on your net worth.

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Speaker 1: Might have more money, but you're probably less happy, less successful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you are from an overall perspective, you're richer financially,

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Speaker 1: but you're poor in all of the other areas that

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Speaker 1: matter much more. And the truth is, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to viewing money or financial independence specifically on a spectrum

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Speaker 1: your options, they grow with each step that you take,

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Speaker 1: with every additional dollar that you are able to bank. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's also important to mention the goal of financial independence

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Speaker 1: isn't just to be able to consume more than you

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Speaker 1: can now. I think some people think that, yeah, more

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Speaker 1: money means who I'm just delaying consumption and where I

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Speaker 1: can go on wild right? Yeah, And it's not about

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Speaker 1: being able to afford more filetmian.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And instead of just the plain ol cheap chicken thighs

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Speaker 1: or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Don't you not chicken thighs. They're great, It makes the

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Speaker 2: best fried chicken. I know, they're actually they're actually cheap

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Speaker 2: but tasty. But even as your level of financial independence grows,

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Speaker 2: it is nice to have more choice from a consumer standpoint,

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Speaker 2: I'll admit to that. But the true goal of having

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Speaker 2: more money in the bank is more about being able

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Speaker 2: to choose the life you want, choosing the life you

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Speaker 2: want to live, what you do with your time, and

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Speaker 2: thinking about financial independence on this spectrum that we're going

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Speaker 2: to kind of lay out here. It makes it.

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Speaker 1: Easier to adjust your goals as your life changes too.

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Speaker 1: For instance, like having kids, it might mean you want

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Speaker 1: to work less and if you have gotten a couple

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Speaker 1: more steps down the road on that path to financial independence.

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Speaker 1: You can make that choice, and that is something you

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Speaker 1: can do in your thirties, as opposed to saying thinking

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Speaker 1: of financial independence, just as this long distance destination that

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Speaker 1: you're working towards makes me think, Matt of that old

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Speaker 1: parable of the fisherman, right, and oh, yes, he's enjoyed

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Speaker 1: fishing all day, sells a few of the fish, cracks

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Speaker 1: a beer up on with his buddies, and someone comes

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Speaker 1: along and says, you could start a business out of this.

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Speaker 2: If we These fish that you catch are phenomenal. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: gotta expand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And then he's like, ultimately, the goal is to

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Speaker 1: get back to the exact life he's living now, right,

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Speaker 1: which is fishing for a few hours, selling the fish,

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Speaker 1: having beers with his friends, enjoying his community and his family.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that can put it in perspective too.

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Speaker 1: I think that parable is really indicative of what a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are after they're working their butt off

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Speaker 1: and they're wasting actually some of these precious years they're

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Speaker 1: working too hard for money and hopes that they can

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Speaker 1: have some sort of leisurely retirement as opposed to incorporating

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Speaker 1: some of that leisure, some of that joy now exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the nuts and bolts here for

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Speaker 1: a second. Because the way it works, you move up

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Speaker 1: the financial independent spectrum by doing a few different things simultaneously. Right,

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Speaker 1: It takes paying down debt, it takes saving your money,

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Speaker 1: and then beyond that, it takes investing your money. And

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Speaker 1: if you're plugging away at all three things simultaneously, which

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Speaker 1: most of us are, well, you're going to be increasing

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Speaker 1: your net worth, you're going to be increasing your liquidity

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Speaker 1: over time, and you're eliminating more of these ongoing monthly obligations.

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Speaker 1: But clearly your money metrics are improving over the months

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Speaker 1: and over the years of doing the right thing, and

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Speaker 1: that should mean that you get to experience higher levels

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Speaker 1: of freedom and autonomy along the way. It shouldn't just

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Speaker 1: be reserved for quitting work altogether and waiting and only

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Speaker 1: realizing that the at the end of the road that

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Speaker 1: there's some sort of prize, some sort of metal that

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Speaker 1: you're going to be able to attain. Yeah, there is

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Speaker 1: no metal for a financial I know from what I've seen.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen anyone get a metal. If I do

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Speaker 1: I'll let you know, but there's no trophies or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. And so really it is all about your

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Speaker 1: mindset and your approach. And I think, unfortunately, Matt, most

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Speaker 1: people when they think about financial independence, they associated with

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Speaker 1: a go big or go home mindset. They is associated

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Speaker 1: with that all or nothing mentality, the home run or

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Speaker 1: nothing right or strikeout, which is what actually makes baseball

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Speaker 1: more boring these days. Although it is quicker, the games

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Speaker 1: were quicker, like the one we went to two and

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Speaker 1: a half hours. That was nice just because of that pitchclock. Man,

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Speaker 1: I know, the thing is, it's not that crushing a

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Speaker 1: homer isn't a bad thing, right, and makes me think

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Speaker 1: of this old true Braves player Rafael Billyard. I think

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Speaker 1: he played for like sixteen years and he literally hit

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Speaker 1: two home runs in his entire career. I'm sure he's

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Speaker 1: glad that he hit a couple homers and like didn't

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Speaker 1: never hit one right the entire time he was in

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Speaker 1: the league. Dude, he was like so small and he

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Speaker 1: choked up on the bat and so he was like

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Speaker 1: a slap single kind of hitter. But he was quick

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Speaker 1: and he was good on defense. So it's not that

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Speaker 1: we're against your ability to make big strides, right, sure,

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Speaker 1: And I think getting to the point where you can

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Speaker 1: actually quit work altogether and completely living off your nest

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Speaker 1: egg iving for that is part of the spectrum that.

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Speaker 2: Is the home run, Yes, yeah.

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Speaker 1: But usually you're going to get there through a You're

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Speaker 1: going to round the bases through a single, a stolen base,

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Speaker 1: and then the RBI hit to get you in, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's gonna.

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Speaker 2: And that's what most guys do. Like that's what they

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Speaker 2: call that, manufacturing runs. Yeah, that's that's like the majority

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Speaker 2: of baseball is that. And like we were lucky enough

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Speaker 2: to see a couple of homers the other night as well,

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Speaker 2: And it's it is a ton of fun. You just

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Speaker 2: want you just want a little bit of everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it's a it's a ton of fun. But at

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Speaker 2: the same time, if that is all that you were

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Speaker 2: going for, it would make for honestly just a boring sport.

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Speaker 1: To watch, Yes, it would. Yeah, we think if that's

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Speaker 1: the only thing you're focused on, the home run or

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Speaker 1: the ultimate number, you're missing out on a whole lot

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Speaker 1: in between. And so that's why we think it is

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Speaker 1: worth laying out all of these different stages along the

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Speaker 1: way on your on your way to ultimate financial independence.

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Speaker 1: We will delineate, we will lay out that spectrum how

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Speaker 1: that should impact your savings and investing habits, and we'll

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Speaker 1: get to all that right after this.

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Speaker 2: All right, we are back and we're probably done with

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Speaker 2: all of the baseball now, actually we're probably not. I'll

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Speaker 2: probably refer to it again. Probably people out there listening

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Speaker 2: and they're like, I could care, Like I thought magical,

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Speaker 2: we're like soccer guys. Hey, we are still soccer guys,

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Speaker 2: but we just it was fun to go to a

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Speaker 2: base I had like, that was literally my first game

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Speaker 2: that I had been to at the at truest part. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that was your first. Yes, I've been

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Speaker 2: outside it before, like Kate and I the battery. There's

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Speaker 2: like restaurants and stuff that, so we've done date nights

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Speaker 2: there before, but we've never I've never actually been to

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Speaker 2: a game there, so I almost said match, never a

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Speaker 2: match there. Yeah, but let's go ahead now discuss some

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Speaker 2: of these different levels of financial independence, the ones that

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Speaker 2: we think are important to identify.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, these are proprietary terms we've come up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: nobody influenced us. We came up with with these This

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Speaker 1: is the spectrum that had money guys have have outlined, that's.

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Speaker 2: Right, And at the very bottom of the spectrum is

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Speaker 2: what we're gonna call No. Five. This means that you're

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Speaker 2: likely living paycheck to paycheck. You literally zero financial freedom,

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Speaker 2: and you are completely dependent on your job, your job,

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Speaker 2: the whims of your employer. And this is actually a

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Speaker 2: big chunk of Americans, as we all know too well.

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Speaker 2: This is the forty plus percent of folks who can't

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Speaker 2: afford a four hundred dollars unexpected expense.

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Speaker 1: We see that number come out every year, it gets updated,

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Speaker 1: and it's always right.

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Speaker 2: In that vicinity. And here's the thing, though, like this

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Speaker 2: is where everyone starts unless maybe like your trust fund baby,

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Speaker 2: trust fund baby, if you were born with a silver

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Speaker 2: spin in your mouth. But given honestly, like, given the

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Speaker 2: cold reality of student loan debt in our country, a

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Speaker 2: giant swath of young folks out there are starting out

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Speaker 2: just in a bigger hole than just no FI. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's not that they're starting at zero, they're actually starting

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Speaker 2: off with that negative net worth. Yeah, but when you

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Speaker 2: are no FI, well, you don't have any options available

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Speaker 2: to you because you got to keep working for that

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Speaker 2: next paycheck. No work means no money. You don't have

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Speaker 2: the options, and you literally have no financial independence.

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Speaker 1: And you said this where people start. There's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with that. There's no shame in that game. This is

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Speaker 1: the reality for most people as they're beginning out.

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Speaker 2: No shame.

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Speaker 1: I wish I looked back to my early years. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I was no five for a while, man.

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Speaker 2: Like we should maybe we should have come up with

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Speaker 2: like beyond that, like negative five or something like, because

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Speaker 2: that's technically folks who are coming out of it probably

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Speaker 2: well with loans. Yes, if only I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks are probably thinking that if only I could

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Speaker 2: have graduated and had a net worth of zero, But

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Speaker 2: in fact I had a negative net worth. I have

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Speaker 2: twenty six thousand dollars or forty six whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: So we get it.

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Speaker 1: Just trying to get back to zero is that in

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Speaker 1: and of itself a difficult thing, And that is part

415
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Speaker 1: of the stepping stone, is saying like I got to

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Speaker 1: get beyond. I got to get beyond here. And so

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Speaker 1: the next step, the next place you're gonna want to

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Speaker 1: venture on your five spectrum journey is you want to

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Speaker 1: get the credit card five. That's what we're calling it,

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Speaker 1: you know, because really, how long you end up hanging

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Speaker 1: out at each of these stages of financial independence is

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Speaker 1: kind of up to you. It's up to your actions.

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Speaker 1: It's how up to how quickly you're able to pay

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Speaker 1: off debt to save more, It's up to how quickly

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Speaker 1: you're able to increase your income, right, And so do

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Speaker 1: you fall into a rut of living paycheck to paycheck,

427
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Speaker 1: staying there for longer than you otherwise should, or are

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Speaker 1: you immediately trying to create some margin in order to

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Speaker 1: advance to the next stage of financial independence, which is

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Speaker 1: this credit card five?

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Speaker 2: Right? Right? That's how you get from no FI to

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Speaker 2: credit card for yes, you got it's I said, fry five. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, it involves habits, right, and it involves making changes,

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Speaker 1: it little tweaks to each one of these these, each

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Speaker 1: one of these things. And so this is this is

436
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: when you still don't have much credit card FI, but

437
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: you've amassed enough to give yourself some basic breathing room, right,

438
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,560
Speaker 1: and most importantly, you're no longer dependent on your credit

439
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: cards When unexpected expenses crop up and there's a reason,

440
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,159
Speaker 1: Matt that our first money gear is to have a

441
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: basic emergency fund set aside, where you have two thousand,

442
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty seven dollars in the bank at

443
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 1: your disposal. And you know, we're all for using credit

444
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: cards wisely, you and me, that's what we recommend, but

445
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 1: we don't want them to become a crutch something you

446
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 1: have to rely on when a few unexpected expenses pop

447
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 1: up in your life.

448
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, And once you've got that basic emergency

449
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 2: fund on hand, it's going to feel like you're finally

450
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 2: able to take a time out where you can get

451
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 2: a sip of water in a quick rest after having

452
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 2: around the basketball corps for most of the first half

453
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,400
Speaker 2: more sports references. We're switching it up at you. It's

454
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 2: not ideal, right, Like you still want to have maybe

455
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 2: a longer rest at halftime, but at least it's something

456
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 2: that's where the stage of financial independence gets you. It's

457
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,159
Speaker 2: a it's a fairly low bar, but considering where so

458
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,679
Speaker 2: many Americans are with their finances, it's what a lot

459
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 2: of folks need to be aiming for, right Like, just

460
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 2: getting to this point it can relieve a lot of

461
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 2: stress and we're not just talking about folks who are

462
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 2: making minimum wage. We're talking about high wage earners as well.

463
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 2: I think, like the it's a majority of folks who

464
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 2: make more than one hundred thousand dollars our living paycheck

465
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,959
Speaker 2: to paycheck, it's like fifty one percent or something like that.

466
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 2: And so we're not just picking on folks who are

467
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 2: maybe either just starting out in their career or folks

468
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 2: who have a job where hey, man, I'm just not

469
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 2: going to make a ton of money here. No. No, we're

470
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 2: talking to folks who make good money, but even still

471
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 2: they are making the same mistakes with their with their

472
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,880
Speaker 2: financi Yeah, they're outspending their paycheck even though that paycheck

473
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 2: is relatively large. The next step along the way is

474
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 2: achieving what we call layoff FI. And this is the

475
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 2: next level to shoot for on the how to Money

476
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: financial Independent spectrum because it's when you not only have

477
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 2: that base amount of twenty four hundred and sixty seven

478
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 2: dollars saved up, it's when you have a fully funded

479
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 2: emergency fund. And so yeah, this is basically when you

480
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 2: have three to six months worth of expenses on hand

481
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: in that same these account. You know whether you should

482
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: have the leaner three months or the fat or six months.

483
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 2: That really depends on a number of things, one of

484
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: which is do you live in a two income household

485
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: or not. I think if if that's the case, yeah,

486
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 2: you can have a little bit less stocked away in

487
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: savings if you are. Do you have tenure at the

488
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: university where you teach, right, maybe it'll be okay.

489
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: It's like now I could literally punch the dean in

490
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 1: the face and I would still retain my job. You

491
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: might not need to have quite as much on hand.

492
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 1: It depends on your risk tolerance, right, like how comfortable

493
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: you are with your your income dropping or if you

494
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: are willing or capable honestly of cutting back on your

495
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: within your expenses, were you to earn less money, and

496
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 1: that there's so many different things you have to take

497
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: into account because that is something that you may have

498
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: been more willing to do or more capable of doing

499
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: back before you had kids, but now you have kids,

500
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: and man, there are certain expenses that are necessary for

501
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: me to go work, like childcare that's something we got

502
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: to pay for or yeah, all important things to keep

503
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: in money exactly. I think that's a great point and

504
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: we're calling this layoff FI because that bare bones z

505
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: fund that's not gonna get you very far if you

506
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: lose your job. Yeah, right, but beyond that initial savings

507
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 1: threshold that we want you to achieve, having layoff five

508
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: money on hand, you know in your bank account, that'll

509
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 1: smooth out some of those bigger bumps in life, like

510
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: getting fired. Right if you do punch someone in the

511
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: face of your job or hopefully just laid off, hopefully

512
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: there's no violence. We're also not advocating for violence, right,

513
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 1: don't watch anybody, don't do that, but yeah, unless you are, yeah,

514
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: Elon Muska or haven't talked about that here on the

515
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: show yet. But if then, when that does happen, we're

516
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: there for it. I'll be watching the most unentertaining actual fight,

517
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: but the build up in human history, right, Well, I

518
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 1: mean this is, yeah, hopefully you're not getting fired, you're

519
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: just getting laid off. And even then we obviously don't

520
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: want that. But you want to be prepared for the

521
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: potential of a layoff because they happen, right, and an

522
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: unexpected layoff is one of those things that can set

523
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: you back in your financial progress meaningfully, and a few

524
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: months of not being at a job can make it

525
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: can make it feel like it sets you back years

526
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: in your finances. By the way, Matt, I know this

527
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: from personal experience, not from my own layoff, but from

528
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: my dad being laid off when we were kids. That

529
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: was a tough thing to come back from and it

530
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: really really can. It can derail a career. And so

531
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: you just having that layoff five money doesn't make it

532
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: easy to get that news, but it does make it

533
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: less financially obtrusive. And so if you haven't socked away

534
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: a big savings nest egg, it's a precarious feeling to

535
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: get laid off. That's what we want people to have,

536
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: is like more money on hand to then be able

537
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: to endure the bigger road bump Sell throws at you.

538
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't feel good living on the edge like that,

539
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: and largely because those bigger there's more jarring events like

540
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: a layoff would throw you into an adverse financial state

541
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But having this much on hand, it also

542
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 2: ensures that you can take a little more time before

543
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: you have to commit to a new job. And so

544
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: whether that means just maybe getting a little bit of rest,

545
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, taking a couple of weeks off, or just

546
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: allowing you to turn down a job that's not necessarily

547
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: ideal because you have some savings to back you up.

548
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: You know, you've got that fully funded emergency fund of

549
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: three to six months of living expenses set aside having

550
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: achieved layoff. I this is a clutch stage as you

551
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: are ratcheting, as you're moving along that financial independence spectrum. Yeah.

552
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: I had a friend who lost his job a couple

553
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: of years ago, and I just remember being so bummed

554
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: that he didn't have like layoff five status because he

555
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: had to take the first job that came along and

556
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: it paid less than the one he had just lost.

557
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: And that's a tough spot to be in. If you

558
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: have extra month's worth of expenses, you can be a

559
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: little pick here, and I think that can ultimately help

560
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: you rebound and ensure that your career stays intact. And

561
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: the financial independence and where you're at on your journey,

562
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: the financial independence makes a big difference in the choices

563
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: you can make or that you're forced.

564
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: To make in the moment. Absolutely all right.

565
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: Next on the spectrum is peace out FI.

566
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 2: That's what we're calling it.

567
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: We've talked about peace out money before that's some people

568
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: call it fu money, but we're more tactful than those people, Matt,

569
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think this is really when someone

570
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: has saved beyond six months of living expenses. So maybe

571
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: that is layoff I is up to six months, and

572
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: then beyond that is like okay, your peace out fi

573
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: And instead of just being prepared for a layoff, now

574
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: you can even engineer your own layoff that's what you

575
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: want to do, and still best to give two weeks

576
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: of notice. You don't want to intentionally burn bridges. And

577
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: that's why we don't call it fu money, because peace

578
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: out money just sounds like you're doing it in a peaceful,

579
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: joyous way, as opposed to throwing a molotop cocktail through

580
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: the door taking.

581
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: It to the man as you leave, right, Yeah.

582
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: And so yeah you can though, and you should feel

583
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: the freedom to step away from a job for things

584
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: like health reasons or to take care of an ailing

585
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: parent or a spouse. Rather than taking a more passive

586
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: role in your employment and hoping that you're not next

587
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: on the chopping block, you're actively steering the car of

588
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: your own life towards what others might see as a

589
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: financial Cliff, But they don't know that you've achieved peace

590
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: out five. They don't know that you've got the financial

591
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: wherewithal and the dollars in the bank account to back

592
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: you up. Even if you're like you know, it makes

593
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: me think of even being able to negotiate your own layoff, Matt.

594
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: We talked about that with Sam Dogan, the financial Samurai

595
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 1: at one point. And if you've got cash in the

596
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: bank and you see riding on the wall, things aren't

597
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: good at your employer. Hey, you know what you can

598
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: volunteer is tribute negotiate a pretty sweet severance package, and that,

599
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: combined with the amount of money you've been able to save,

600
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: you can piece out for a while.

601
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that gives you even more runway to make the

602
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 2: decisions that you think are going to be best not

603
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 2: only for you and your life, but for your family

604
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: and ultimately well yeah I should have said ultimately your family,

605
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: but but I was gonna say your career as well,

606
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: and kind of what direction you want to go in.

607
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: But this level of financial independence, this level of five,

608
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: also comes with more power to push back and you know,

609
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 2: going back to avoiding the all or nothing mindset, you

610
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: also don't have to completely quit when something is going

611
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: on at work, when something happens that you're not a

612
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 2: fan of, but you can if you just can't stomach

613
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: your boss, or if you can't handle the insufferable hours anymore.

614
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: It's like Office Space, I'm gonna need you to come

615
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: in on It's like if you don't bother coming on Saturday,

616
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: don't come in on Sunday. Yeah, And that's a at

617
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: that point, when you're peace hout five, you can be like, Okay,

618
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: now that's too much, I'm gone.

619
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: You really can at that point. Yeah. But like what

620
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: we're talking about here, though, is just the ability, like

621
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: the confidence that you might have to start having some

622
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: conversations because this level of financial freedom can just help

623
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 2: you to negotiate for the things that you really want.

624
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 2: And it's going to be easier to negotiate successfully when

625
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: you really can walk away. If in case they call

626
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: your bluff and they're like, no, I'm sorry, that's not

627
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: going to work, and you can say, all right, well

628
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: then this isn't gonna work out for me anymore. You

629
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: can kind of really exhibit that Peter and Office bade

630
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 2: Space degree of apathy.

631
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: You know, that cool con collected. Okay, cool, let it

632
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: roll off your back like a duck. When you when

633
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: you're peace Out five, you really can just be like, Okay,

634
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: that's great, no worries, but you.

635
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: Don't necessarily work for me. You don't have to smash

636
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 2: up any equipment now, but you have the ability, like

637
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: you said.

638
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: To this one again too, sorry about that. That's the

639
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: whole office space thing.

640
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the next stage of five, which is

641
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: sabbatical FI. It's sort of like a peace Out five,

642
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: but on steroids. So this means you can take an

643
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: extended absence from work and be just fine. It means

644
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: that if you quit, you're not immediately looking for a

645
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: new gig like you would with with peace Off five. Typically,

646
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: with peace hop five, you are walked peacefully walking away

647
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: from that job. You're saying peace out. But typically it

648
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: means you're like, all right, maybe i'll sit low, you know,

649
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: kind of chill out for a little bit, but I'm

650
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: gonna start looking from a next job. Yeah. Not so.

651
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: With sabbatical fire, you're actually able to enjoy a lengthy

652
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: period of rest, and you might even have enough on

653
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: hand to completely change what it is that your life

654
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: and your career looks like so like we're not really

655
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: talking about it like a simple extended vacation that your

656
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: employer might offer, you know, like they might call taking

657
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: four weeks off a sabbatical, and that's not really the

658
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: definition that we're going after here, Likes, what's out the

659
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 2: heart of what we're calling sabbatical FI is the ability

660
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: almost to reinvent yourself. This is when you have the

661
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 2: freedom to change course in your career. Like, it's when

662
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: you can fulfill a desire to go back to school

663
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: and to learn something new. It's it's when you have

664
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: the confidence to start a new business. These are all

665
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: bigger things than just being able to say, peace out,

666
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to go find another job. Sabbatical FI is

667
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: like who am I? It's not sitting on the curb

668
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: moment and you're asking God what it is that you

669
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: should do next?

670
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and yeah, four weeks what a pitiful sabbatical?

671
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: That's really eight weeks is like the minimum of sabbatical

672
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: should be. In my opinion, I was glad. I don't

673
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: know how I came across this website. I think it

674
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: was called Sabbatical Guide and popped up when I was

675
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: researching sabbatical and evidently according to folks who are there

676
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: on his website that interact and stuff, the average length

677
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: of sabbat time for sabbatical was eight months, which I

678
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: was really happy to see.

679
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: Very impressive at least the folks who are looking trying

680
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: to find sabbatical guidance, that's what that's average for them.

681
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: So I was happy to do. And that's if you

682
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: were speaking to is the fact that there is a

683
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: way this isn't just taking a long leave of absence

684
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: from your work, but sort of like what's the next

685
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: stage of my career as I want to do.

686
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: That happens for people because they're burned out, and this

687
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: should not This should be more proactive, right, It should

688
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: be more like I'm choosing this as opposed to I

689
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: can't take it anymore, right, And.

690
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive, you know, like

691
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: because you might find yourself in that situation as well,

692
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: all different flavors.

693
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: Sure well, And okay, so the sabbatical five makes me

694
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: think of our friend Chad Carson in front of the show.

695
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: We've had him on before. We're gonna have him on

696
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: again actually soon because he's written a new book about

697
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: real estate, and he's done multiple year long stints, sabbaticals

698
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: essentially with his family. He's still working a little doing

699
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: his small business thing, which he can do from anywhere

700
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: in the world that he wants. And I think that

701
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: sort of choice it sounds impossible for most folks, But

702
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,479
Speaker 1: if you have handled your finance as well, if you've

703
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: kept your expenses low, if you've been saving it a

704
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: high clip, and you've got enough cash or a passive

705
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: income in the case of Chad who's invested in real estate,

706
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: you can really make this a reality. He takes the

707
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: opportunity to go to a different country when he does this,

708
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: and the first time he did it was South America.

709
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: This time around, it was a year in Spain, and

710
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: so it creates a cultural experience for his kids and

711
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: for him too, like living in a walkable city that

712
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: he never you know, he might have got to visit

713
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, but he got a whole

714
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 1: year there, maybe got to develop a community. Can't wait

715
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: to talk to him about it. I know, I'm so

716
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: excited to just really hear about all the details. But

717
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing where sabbatical fi can

718
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: really if you hit this point, he gives you the

719
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: option to do something crazy that most of your friends

720
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: would be like, how in the world are you even

721
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: able to do that? And so much of it it

722
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: becomes possible from one a mindset change to thinking, oh,

723
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: I can get there, but also through handling your finances

724
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: in such a way that you have enough money to

725
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: really make this possible without freaking out right, that's right.

726
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: But okay, this brings up the question, Matt, of saving

727
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: versus investing, because we've talked a lot about cash in

728
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: the bank, and that is certainly part of it. Some

729
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: of it has to be liquid, but in order to

730
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: grow your wealth for ultimate financial independence, you got to

731
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: invest it too. So we're going to talk about the

732
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: dichotomy of that and explain our last steps and really

733
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: how to think about financial independence. We get to all

734
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: that right after this.

735
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: All right, let's continue our journey along the spectrum of

736
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: financial independence. And you kind of you know, you mentioned

737
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: this right before the break, but like all of the

738
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: levels that we've talked about up until now, all the

739
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 2: different levels of FI, they basically require having cash in

740
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: the bank, like you need to be able to tap

741
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: those reserves basically if something happens, because honestly, a lot

742
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: of the things that we discussed, you are reacting to something, right,

743
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: like whether it's an emergency that pops up, whether it

744
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: is oh Man, conditions at work just got pretty terrible.

745
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: Like I think maybe the sabbatical FI is one of

746
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: the ones that you can plan for, maybe a little

747
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: bit further in advance.

748
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: It makes me thinking about my last job. Some sort

749
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: of ruthless private equity firm bought out the radio station

750
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: I worked for, and it changed the entire dynamic of

751
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: working there. And so people were like, if you had

752
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: the financial ability, you might have been looking for something

753
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: else whereas you might have been stuck in place. And

754
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: this is why too, You're right, You're what you're speaking

755
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: to is four one K money doesn't help you nearly

756
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: as much in that situation as liquid cash.

757
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: So it's I mean, there's a catch twenty two, right,

758
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: because you need to have that cash on hand in

759
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: order to achieve some of these different levels of FI

760
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: that we've talked about. But if you aren't investing for

761
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: the long haul, well, how are you going to who

762
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: actually retire? How are you going to be able to

763
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: reach that ultimate level of financial independence. We're all about

764
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: those tax advantage retirement accounts, but you can't access those

765
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: until you reach the ripal age of fifty nine and

766
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: a half. And so if you stock everything away into

767
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: those accounts, despite your growing network, you are going to

768
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: be less likely to feel like that you're moving along

769
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: the financial independence spectrum because you are. It's almost a

770
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: problem that these different financial products that they have created, right,

771
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: because they are created in such a way that there

772
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 2: is a finish line. There is this goal, this award

773
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: that you receive, which is the quote unquote retirement that

774
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 2: so many folks are used to, the ability to draw

775
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 2: down on those funds exactly. And so there's the structure

776
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: in place that encourages us to think about financial independence

777
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: in this way. So, honestly, it's no wonder that this

778
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 2: is a something that we're talking about because we think

779
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: it is important. But the reason we're talking about it

780
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: is because we think it's a problem that the that

781
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 2: there are so many folks who think that the only

782
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: way to consider themselves financially independent is if they have

783
00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: enough in the bank to actually retire.

784
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why it takes more than just tax

785
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: advantage retirement accounts to get you further along this five spectrum.

786
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: And so I think really the right way to think

787
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: about the saving verse investing conundrum in the financial independence

788
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: spectrum is to take the both and approach and yeah, yeah.

789
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: Is to remove the dichotomy. It's not like whatever versus whatever.

790
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: It's like and yes, it's more like improv yeah exactly. Yeah,

791
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: the yes and approach as opposed to like it being

792
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: this this battle. Yeah, sort of like not to of

793
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 2: your off course. But it's how we talk about roth

794
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 2: versus tradition. I thought you're going back to baseball, No, no,

795
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: going to boxing now it's it's it's how we talk

796
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: about roth versus traditional accounts. It's like, well, if you're

797
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: at a certain point, yes, consider both, because the ability

798
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: to diversify your tax liability down the road that's huge. Yeah.

799
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: And on the boxing note, like a butterfly sting that

800
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: could be. I think that's maybe the saving and investing. Yeah,

801
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: it's you need both, right, that's Somehamad Ali approach.

802
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 2: It, like Mohamed Ali.

803
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: Yes, right, but you know, I think liquid savings matters,

804
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: but don't choot for eighteen months worth of savings before

805
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: you invest your first time, that would not be the approach.

806
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: We would advise that it would be a touch on

807
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: near sided. Yeah, exactly.

808
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: We actually want you investing as soon as you hit

809
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: credit card five, right, which is early on in that

810
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: financial independence spectrum. Once you've got a basic stash of

811
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 1: twenty four hundred and sixty seven dollars, you do want

812
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: to start funneling money towards investments. You do want to

813
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: make sure you're at minimum getting the match on that

814
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: four to zero and K before you start saving more, right,

815
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: Because savings alone isn't going to get you to the

816
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: ultimate stop on your destination, right, You've got to experience

817
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: compounding returns over a longer period of time if you

818
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: want to achieve full financial independence, which is ultimately where

819
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: we want you to end up, even though you're hitting

820
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: those sweet spots along the way and enjoying greater levels

821
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: of financial independence over the years.

822
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 2: That's right, man. Yeah, So the last stop on the

823
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: financial independence spectrum is when you can achieve full and

824
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 2: ultimate financial independence. We didn't really come up with acute

825
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: a short Q see full Monty financial independency, Like, we

826
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: didn't come up with anything like that. But if that

827
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 2: is you. Congrats, because at this point the world is

828
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: your oyster. You never have to work again if you

829
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: don't want to. Interestingly enough, they're let most folks do,

830
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: especially if they are still young. They do want to

831
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: do some sort of work, but they just might want

832
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: to do less of it, and they might want to

833
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 2: enjoy whatever it is that they do a little bit more.

834
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: They might want to have a little more flexibility to

835
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: truly say yeah, no, thank you. I want to work

836
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 2: the hours I want to work. Does that work for you?

837
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: If not, then I'm gonna have to bounce. Yeah. And

838
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: even once you've achieved this level, you might still want

839
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: to find ways to grow your net worth because maybe

840
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: you've got goals of generational wealth. Maybe you want to

841
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: be super philanthropic. These are all other things to keep

842
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: in mind as well. It doesn't necessarily mean, it doesn't

843
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: mean you have to retire and you know, sit lemonade

844
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 2: or sweet tea on the front porch while you watch

845
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: all the young uns out their play. I have to

846
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: sound nice though, yeah, sound sorry at least occasionally, right.

847
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: I want to be active and doing stuff. But I agree, yeah,

848
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 2: financial independence it maybe maybe at like three o'clock after

849
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: you've worked a nice solid five hours. Yeah, you know,

850
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: like you can still work. You can still have your

851
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: sweet tea in the rocking chair on the porch. Yeah,

852
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: cracker barrel style, that's you. That's what you want, Joel.

853
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: I just want the giant checkers man, that's what I want. Well,

854
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: I think the point you're making here is that work

855
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: still holds value even if you don't do it and

856
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: you don't need it for the money, because there are

857
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: other goals you can have saving up more and some

858
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: of that might be just the impact that you're having

859
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: based on the work that you're doing, or you might

860
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: want to yet do volunteer work instead. I mean, there's

861
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: all sorts of options when you get to this point

862
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: of like full and complete five whatever we're calling it.

863
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: We really should have come up with a better name

864
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: on this one, but last we got lazy fully five.

865
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: That's what we'll call it. Fully fine. Yeah, I got

866
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: the role with that.

867
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about this as we're kind of

868
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: like starting around this episode out and finishing up here.

869
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: I think it's important to mention that because financial independence

870
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: is on a spectrum, we want you to find ways

871
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: to exploit where you are on that road to financial independence.

872
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: Right as you continue to gain and accrue more of it,

873
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: start to ask questions like what do you want your

874
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: days to look like? What do you want your weeks

875
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: to look like? Because we would suggest that you really

876
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: are able to morph and change your life more than

877
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: you think along the way, that this is the real

878
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: power behind realizing that financial independence is a spectrum because

879
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: you can take advantage of the progress you've made with

880
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: each step that you take. The ultimate goal is not

881
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: dying with millions in the bank, and in fact, I

882
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: would suggest that is a rather pitiful goal to have.

883
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: So don't be afraid to lean into your financial independence

884
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: level and enjoy the benefits of it, saying if you

885
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: continue to think of it as this all or nothing equation,

886
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: you probably won't find and you won't be able to

887
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: appreciate the progress that you're making along the way.

888
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 2: You know, maybe we should. This is not an honor

889
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: off switch. It's a dimmer switch. Maybe we should. Financial

890
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 2: independence is a dimmer switch. It's even more milk toast

891
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: than stepping stones. Right, But there's a fine line between

892
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: lifestyle and what essentially what we're saying here, which is

893
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 2: realizing your wealth, right, because on one on one hand,

894
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: you are just being kind of carried away by the culture,

895
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: the currents of culture, right, and maybe you start you're

896
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: thinking about buying something like you're thinking about buying a

897
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 2: new suv because that's what all the neighbors are doing.

898
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: Or oh, maybe it's because I care about what it

899
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: is that the other parents at carpool, what it is

900
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 2: that they think, And so it's worth thinking through, like

901
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: why am I actually doing this? Like should I care

902
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 2: what it is that they think? Or maybe I should

903
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: care about the things that are truly important to me.

904
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: It's like, again going back to that spire framework, how

905
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: can I spend some of my wealth? How can I

906
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: exercise some of my financial independence in a way that's

907
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: going to lead to more health in those other areas

908
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: in life? A very simple example could be getting your

909
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: yard cut by like a lawn service or something, right, Like,

910
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: you could do that maybe because well that's what all

911
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 2: the other guys are doing, and this guy's really good,

912
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: so maybe I'll just do that. In my mind, that's

913
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: like an unhealthy approach that to me feels more like

914
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: lifestyle creep versus maybe you're doing it yourself, and you think, man,

915
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 2: like my saturdays are completely taken up by yard work,

916
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: and I am not able to spend as much time

917
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: as I wish I could with my kids, and my

918
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: kids are very important to me. That's that relationship part

919
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: of that aspire framework. Right, So that to me feels

920
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: more like a healthy reason to spend some of your

921
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: money in a way that's going to move the.

922
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: Needle for you or I think the reason why, the

923
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: why behind that choice makes a big difference.

924
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: It's all about the intention. Yeah, it's all about the intention.

925
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: So for instance, like it makes me think about like

926
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: an unhealthy work environment, Well, maybe it's worth considering pushing

927
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: back on something because you're realizing that, hey, this is

928
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: taking a toll on my body, Like I am not

929
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: getting enough sleep, I am working way too much. Is

930
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: it worth you stepping back a little bit, potentially giving

931
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: up future raises or a promotion, some of these different

932
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: things that would lead to more money, But that's not

933
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: what you've identified that you're after anymore. You have the money,

934
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: how is it that you're able to exercise or realize

935
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: your wealth? Yeah?

936
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: All right, so you mentioned the carpool example, it made

937
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: me think that, you know, what's going to impress them

938
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: more inviting them over and providing all the craft beer

939
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: for them, and they're gonna be like, Oh, this person's cool.

940
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: Who cares if they drive a Jelapi, you know. I

941
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: just I think the things that we think impress other

942
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: people don't impress them as much as we think. And

943
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: so yeah, maybe you're like, oh, they noticed that they're

944
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: checking me out in my sweet can you tell your ride?

945
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: Which those are good looking subs? But I drive a

946
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: incredibly old and incredibly cheap vehicle and I don't. And

947
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: maybe I'm completely wrong and I'm just not reading the

948
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: room right. I don't think people think less of me

949
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: for doing so. And in fact, the ways in which

950
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: you can foster friendship are less about signaling who you

951
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: are status symbols by the things that you buy and

952
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: the things that you own, and it's more about the

953
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: way in which you relate to and care for other people.

954
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: But Matt, I think part of the spectrum thing. One

955
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: of the other things we want to encourage people to

956
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: do is to figure out where they are along this

957
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: spectrum of financial independence that we've kind of outlined here today.

958
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: Start taking the next steps towards the next level. Right,

959
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: so you might say, okay, cool, I am layoff by

960
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: and I want to get to peace out. That's my

961
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: next goal, right yeah, And so just kind of like

962
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: go through these again. We'll list them all out in

963
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 1: the show notes for the episode and figure out where

964
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: you are, because once you know where you are, then

965
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: it's easier to figure out the path to where you

966
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: want to get, where you can make uh to where

967
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: you can go next. And so I think when when

968
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: financial independence feels like a series of smaller steps versus like,

969
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, Matt, you do CrossFit like a big

970
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: box jump, which are actually really good at that's your thing.

971
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: I do like box j I can jump up onto

972
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: this table right now.

973
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could. But that's the kind of thing where.

974
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: Yes, got to talk about crossfits today. I know. That's yeah,

975
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: you can check off your box. Always an achievement, It's

976
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: always something I'm tell me. Do you feel like I

977
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 2: bring it up to often? Thank you? Yeah? Good?

978
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: Some people do, though, That's like the first hole CrossFit

979
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: is tell all your neighbors. I try to intentionally not

980
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: talk about it, I know, because of the stereotype. Yeah, okay, okay,

981
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: but back to that small steps versus box chump. I

982
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: think people can can see that viscerally that that the

983
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: step up the stairs makes.

984
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: Picking up some steps is going to be a lot

985
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: easier than like throwing your entire body up onto a

986
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: thirty inch Yeah.

987
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: It's more practical, more attainable, And so you aren't not

988
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: to demoralize you. You're not going to achieve financial independence overnight,

989
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: and you don't need to. You can achieve more and

990
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: more of it by doing the right things with your money,

991
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: by saving, by investing more of it, while paying off

992
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: debts steadily along the way each and every month like clockwork.

993
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: But if you can pinpoint your exact location, that can

994
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: help you get excited about the next goal. And I

995
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: think it can actually incentivize progress versus demoralizing you that

996
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 1: you're not going to be able to do it in one,

997
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: three or five years. Like it's like, no, I'm just

998
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: going to continue to experience greater levels of this financial

999
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: freedom and I'm going to enjoy it as I make

1000
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: that progress.

1001
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about breaking it down and just doing

1002
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: the next right thing, which I'm pretty sure there's a

1003
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: Frozen two song about that. But it makes me think,

1004
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 2: like you recently talked about the couch to five k

1005
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 2: app and what makes that so successful is that it's

1006
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: they make it attainable. There are these doable steps, and

1007
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: you know what, there's actually like couch to ten k,

1008
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: there's couch to marathon programs as well, because that's like

1009
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: you can achieve that. And that's what we're talking about

1010
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 2: here with financial independence. We're not stopping at five k,

1011
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: like we're going all the way to like ultra marathon.

1012
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 2: That's the level that we're going to. And this also

1013
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 2: makes me think about when Kate and I went hiking

1014
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: last year at Old Rag Mountain. It was a beauty.

1015
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 2: You know, it was snowy. It says, we're walking through

1016
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: the woods, it's great, and then we get to a

1017
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: section of the trail where we get up onto this

1018
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: ridge and you we look up and you can kind

1019
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 2: of see the rockier section and Kate kind of freaked

1020
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 2: out a little bit because she was looking at this

1021
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: entire difficult section that we were going to scale, that

1022
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 2: we're going to like climb, slash hike over the next

1023
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: hour or two all at once. That can be incredibly intimidating.

1024
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: And that's what it's like when you say, oh, yeah,

1025
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: you need two point eight million dollars in order to retire,

1026
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: which is whatever the recent number is that different news

1027
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 2: outlets we'll throw out there. That's demoralizing as opposed to saying, hey, babe,

1028
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 2: I know that that looks intimidating and kind of scary,

1029
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 2: but let's we're going to take it thirty feet at

1030
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: a time. We're gonna look at the boulder or whatever

1031
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 2: portion of the trail that's in front of us, and

1032
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: we're gonna conquer that. And then once you do that,

1033
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: you look uphead, you look up ahead, and you realize, oh, well,

1034
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: I can do the next thirty feet. I can do

1035
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: the next fifty feet. That's what it's like when it

1036
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: comes to achieving that final or what do we call it,

1037
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: fully financial FI fully five full five. Yeah, that is

1038
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,959
Speaker 2: the overall view when you're looking back at the big

1039
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 2: thing and you're thinking, wait, we're going to get up

1040
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: to there, like we're gonna achieve that. It's important to

1041
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 2: have that goal in mind, But does that help you

1042
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 2: in the day to day with the small movements. No,

1043
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: that's why we wanted to break this down into some

1044
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: of these manageable stages, these more attainable stages of five

1045
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: that we think can help you to get there more successfully.

1046
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: I think the other important thing about the stage viewpoint,

1047
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: like thinking of it this way, is that who really

1048
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: wants to delay all the best experiences that money can

1049
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: buy until they hit full retirement age?

1050
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1051
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: Right, You often can't enjoy them quite as fully at

1052
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: that point in time. And so, going back to the

1053
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: fisherman example, that chill existence in the community of fly

1054
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: and friends, right, Owning more of your time in the

1055
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: here and now, Well, that'll make you happier than copious

1056
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: possessions in a much bigger house. And I think it'll

1057
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: be he got to enjoy it along the way, as

1058
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: opposed to shooting for it as a goal of just

1059
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: what he can do during those retirement years started the golden.

1060
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: After forty years of hard labor, where you neglect all

1061
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 2: of those other aspects of life. Yeah, that's when I'll

1062
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: want to do all those things. But will my health

1063
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 2: be there, will my friends be there? Will I be

1064
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: in a state of mind to actually be able to

1065
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 2: enjoy it? I would. We're arguing that no, you will

1066
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: not right if you don't practice along the way.

1067
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so freedom, we think is the best thing

1068
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: that money can buy because it means you get to

1069
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: call the shots more and more about how you spend

1070
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: your time. And we think that you're more rich when

1071
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: you can go on a hike or a bike ride,

1072
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: or have a long lunch with your spouse on a weekday,

1073
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: a random weekday, just at the drop of a hat.

1074
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: That's how to money rich. Right.

1075
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, then if you can afford a yacht, but then

1076
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 1: you have to work eighty plus hours a week in

1077
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: order to keep it like that is not financial independence.

1078
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: That is not a goal worth shooting for or for

1079
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: most people, right, that is not the kind of lifestyle

1080
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: they want to lead. And so yeah, just these stages

1081
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: of financial independence will let you enjoy allow you, I think,

1082
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: to enjoy your life more and more along the way

1083
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: along the journey, as opposed to feeling like you can't

1084
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: come up for air until you hit that gargantuan retirement

1085
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: a number that's like decade or two off.

1086
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 2: In the future or even more. Yeah, if you are

1087
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 2: if you've got your first job and you're realizing, oh man,

1088
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 2: not only do I have to pay off again, all

1089
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: of this debt that I've got, But then beyond that,

1090
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 2: I've got to sock aside, set aside this much money

1091
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: that is, or it can be overwhelming and demoralizing. But uh,

1092
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: all right, let's uh shift gears. Let's get back to

1093
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: the beer Joel that you and I enjoyed again. This

1094
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: one was from Liz and Tyler. Thank y'all so much

1095
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 2: for sending this one out away. But this is a

1096
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: hey Burner, an American ipa. What were your thoughts, buddy?

1097
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: This one was more in the citrus treuction. Oh yeah, yeah,

1098
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: and this would remind me a lot of trap. Oh

1099
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: you just like really juicy and wet and citrusy. Yeah,

1100
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: which is like, honestly the best ipa coming out of

1101
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: the state of Georgia. That's like mass produced, right, that

1102
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,919
Speaker 1: you can always get in a six or twelve pack.

1103
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: That is like the go to. It's a good one

1104
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: for so many people still, and I agree. I think

1105
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: it takes a lot like that one. And if I

1106
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: lived in New York, this might be a go to

1107
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: in my fridge.

1108
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. It feels like the kind of beer that you

1109
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 2: always have on hand. That way you can be able

1110
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: to offer something to your guests, because that's the kind

1111
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 2: of lifestyle, that's the kind of wealth I want to

1112
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: be able to live, all right, versus having like, was

1113
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 2: it a tell you ride that your your vehicle of choice?

1114
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 2: Now it's not that ex what happened to the You

1115
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 2: still want a Rivian right someday when they're used in

1116
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: some way cheaper, some far off day. Yeah, but uh yeah,

1117
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: that's gonna be it for this episode. You can find

1118
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: our show notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com.

1119
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: And that's also where you can find our credit card tool,

1120
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: which is the easiest way to find a credit card

1121
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: that's offering the benefits that you're looking for, and you

1122
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: can find that they're at the top bar on our website.

1123
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: But dude, that's going to be it for this one.

1124
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: Until next time, Best Friends Out, best Friends the