Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host
Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,
Speaker 1: and today on this show, we are continuing hout Sharks
Speaker 1: Summer with a special guest who is a shark biologist
Speaker 1: and expert, and we are going to learn a lot
Speaker 1: about sharks about life. So welcome to the show. The
Speaker 1: co founder of Minorities in Shark Sciences and author of
Speaker 1: the new autobiographical book Sharks Don't Sink, Jasmine Graham.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Hello, Thanks for having me. So.
Speaker 1: I really love how your book combines both science and
Speaker 1: your life story. So like you weave together tales of
Speaker 1: field research, amazing sharks, science and facts, and.
Speaker 3: Your own experience, your life story.
Speaker 1: So for this interview, I definitely want to talk about
Speaker 1: both things.
Speaker 3: So first of all, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, I think I and probably all of my listeners
Speaker 1: love sharks, so there's no need to, you know, try
Speaker 1: to justify why one would love sharks. But what did
Speaker 1: draw you to sharks as a focus of research.
Speaker 2: Well, I always was interested in the ocean.
Speaker 4: I grew up fishing with my dad and so the
Speaker 4: ocean was always a big part of my life. And
Speaker 4: then I found out in high school you could get
Speaker 4: paid to study fish, and I was like, that sounds
Speaker 4: like the coolest job ever. I guess I'll do that,
Speaker 4: And so I went to college for marine biology. And
Speaker 4: I tried a lot of different things while I was
Speaker 4: in college, but what stuck was sharks. And how I
Speaker 4: first got introduced to sharks was a total accident. That's
Speaker 4: what I call a scientific meat cute, where I had
Speaker 4: this moment where I was walking down the hallway and
Speaker 4: turned a corner and literally ran into a professor.
Speaker 2: I thought, you're going to study sharks.
Speaker 3: So you ran into a shark.
Speaker 2: In a shark in a hallway, and not shark.
Speaker 3: In a hallway.
Speaker 1: The elevator doors are closing and a shark sticks a
Speaker 1: fin in and lets you in.
Speaker 4: I guess in a way, I did run into a
Speaker 4: shark because I ran into doctor Gavin Taylor. Papers went flying,
Speaker 4: and then I started picking them up and I started
Speaker 4: seeing all of these images of these really cool CT
Speaker 4: scans of sharks, and I was like, whoa, these are awesome.
Speaker 4: And I was asking him about it, and he was
Speaker 4: telling me about his research and how he is studying
Speaker 4: how sharks evolve and their adaptations and kind of just
Speaker 4: talking about how old they are and all of these
Speaker 4: cool things that he's learning about them, trying to build
Speaker 4: this tree of life of sharks, and I was just
Speaker 4: kind of like, that sounds super awesome.
Speaker 2: I want to do that.
Speaker 4: And so he reached out to me a couple of
Speaker 4: months later and said, I actually have some funding and
Speaker 4: an opening in my lab for an undergraduate researcher, and
Speaker 4: so then I started working with him with sharks, and
Speaker 4: that's just where I stayed because honestly, sharks are super cool.
Speaker 4: Just from seeing a couple of CT scans and listening
Speaker 4: to this man geek out about sharks for five minutes
Speaker 4: in the hallway, I fell in love.
Speaker 1: I do not blame you. Sharks are incredibly cool. Can
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about your favorite shark and
Speaker 1: what it means to you.
Speaker 4: So my favorite shark is the bonnethead shark, and I
Speaker 4: love them for several reasons. One because it's the first
Speaker 4: shark species that I got to work with in a
Speaker 4: scientific setting, so that was pretty cool. Two, they're just
Speaker 4: super cute. There are multiple bonnet head pictures in the book.
Speaker 4: Because I just need people to know how cute they are.
Speaker 4: They look like they're wearing little tiny hats. They're often
Speaker 4: swimming around kind of in a very confused way, and
Speaker 4: they're just adorable. And the third reason is they were
Speaker 4: the first shark discovered to be omnivorous.
Speaker 2: So they actually eat plants and animals.
Speaker 4: Actually, sea grass makes up forty to sixty percent of
Speaker 4: their diet, and so I think it's really cool that
Speaker 4: there's a shark out there that actually eats more plants.
Speaker 2: Than animals in some situations.
Speaker 1: That is really cool. That sounds like they're the bears
Speaker 1: of the sea. How big are bonnet sharks.
Speaker 2: They're very small. They're like they max out between three
Speaker 2: and four feet.
Speaker 4: Oh, babies, they're small, the little baby guys.
Speaker 1: I of all the animals that I know that you
Speaker 1: can't do this, but I do want to, like pick
Speaker 1: up a shark in my arms and hold it like
Speaker 1: a baby, because their faces to me, are so cute,
Speaker 1: the little, the little just the little downturned mouths, the
Speaker 1: big eyes. I have a I have a hard time
Speaker 1: understanding why people don't find them cute.
Speaker 4: Honestly, Yeah, I mean thresher sharks. Their faces are so cute.
Speaker 4: They just look alarmed all the time. I know, they
Speaker 4: just look frightened.
Speaker 1: I want to carry one around in a baby born
Speaker 1: if that wasn't, you know, incredibly harmful to the shark.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's so interesting, And you have you done
Speaker 1: research on bonnet sharks.
Speaker 2: I have. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So for my undergraduate research, I focused on a small
Speaker 4: all part of the tree of Life project for sharks
Speaker 4: and rays, and I focus specifically on the hammerhead family.
Speaker 4: So I was looking at all ten speechies of hammerheads,
Speaker 4: which a lot of people don't know that there are
Speaker 4: ten species of hammerheads. Sometimes people think that hammerheads are
Speaker 4: just like one species.
Speaker 1: One guy, one shark that's got like an actual hammer.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I studied all of them, bonnettheads included. And then
Speaker 4: I got to co advise a master student who studied
Speaker 4: bonnetead sharks and their head shapes, and I talk about
Speaker 4: that a lot in the book. And the head shapes
Speaker 4: are super cool for bonnet heeads because they exhibit what's
Speaker 4: called sexual dimorphism, which is where males and females look different.
Speaker 4: And that's super cool that their heads look different if
Speaker 4: you're a male versus a female bonnetead shark because that's
Speaker 4: super weird. What a weird thing that is different between
Speaker 4: males and females, But it.
Speaker 1: Is imagine if for for humans, if women were going
Speaker 1: around with triangle heads and men were going around with
Speaker 1: square heads. I don't know, we'd probably find whole new
Speaker 1: ways to make society sexist based on like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: with the triangle head, you know, obviously you can't be president.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One thing also in the book that is really interesting,
Speaker 1: but also you know, kind of I think painful, is
Speaker 1: like discussing the challenges that you face in marine biology,
Speaker 1: particularly as a black woman. Can you talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about how you approached these challenges and what like
Speaker 1: what they were, what you face, which you know, really
Speaker 1: likely the only challenges in research should be you know, hey,
Speaker 1: are my you know, notes getting wet because I'm on
Speaker 1: a boat. But no, there's a lot of actual social
Speaker 1: challenges that you faced.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Science is interesting because people feel like science should
Speaker 2: be a place where we don't have human problems, because
Speaker 2: people see scientists as these like objective beings that don't
Speaker 2: have any bias and all of these things.
Speaker 4: But that's not true. Scientists are people just like anyone else,
Speaker 4: and so therefore science has some society issues creep into it,
Speaker 4: and so a lot of those issues come up in
Speaker 4: science settings when it's people interacting with other people. And
Speaker 4: so that is something that I've found to be a challenge,
Speaker 4: mostly in the sense of people look at me and
Speaker 4: they don't expect me to be a scientist, and so
Speaker 4: therefore there's this, oh, you need to prove yourself because
Speaker 4: we don't feel like you belong here because you don't
Speaker 4: look like scientists. I've actually had a lot of people
Speaker 4: say that, like, oh, you know, it looks like a scientist,
Speaker 4: and then I asked the question, what does a scientist
Speaker 4: look like, right, and then they get very uncomfortable they
Speaker 4: should yeah, yes, that is.
Speaker 2: My bias creeping out.
Speaker 4: And so I think that that is, in and of itself,
Speaker 4: something where you have this sort of doubt when you
Speaker 4: come into a room, or when you submit a paper,
Speaker 4: or when you're submitting a grant proposal, that people have
Speaker 4: these preconceived notions about what a scientist is and what
Speaker 4: a scientist looks like, and what they do and don't do.
Speaker 4: And so that's a challenge. And then there's more egregious things,
Speaker 4: of course, because people sometimes are terrible, But a lot
Speaker 4: of it is people that the heart I would say
Speaker 4: the hardest thing is people that believe that they don't
Speaker 4: have bias, and then they walk around like I had
Speaker 4: a talking about yeah, that's why I said that, like
Speaker 4: it I would have assumed that anybody was a custodian.
Speaker 4: I'm like, would you know, or like they'll be like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's just because you're young, is it. Yeah, And so
Speaker 4: that's that's the harder thing to deal with because whenever
Speaker 4: you have somebody that's like blatantly and openly causic issues,
Speaker 4: then it's a little easier to pinpoint. But there's often
Speaker 4: a lot of times where people, you know, say well,
Speaker 4: I don't think they meant it like that, or maybe
Speaker 4: you took it the wrong way or that other stuff
Speaker 4: where it's sort of like, I don't believe that this
Speaker 4: is actually a thing that is happening a lot.
Speaker 2: I don't believe that bias played into this.
Speaker 1: It's like a lot of defensiveness. So not only is
Speaker 1: it awkward or uncomfortable because it's like, hey, you just
Speaker 1: kind of assume something of aut me and that it's
Speaker 1: also like, oh, now you have to deal with someone
Speaker 1: being really defensive like oh no, no, no, I'm not sexist,
Speaker 1: I'm not racist, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's a big thing. And then
Speaker 4: there's also other issues with marine science in particular because
Speaker 4: a lot of times you are on boats or in
Speaker 4: very remote locations and you're stuck with the same people
Speaker 4: for a long amount of time.
Speaker 2: And it's not like.
Speaker 4: A normal nine to five where you're like, cool, I
Speaker 4: only have to deal with this for eight hours and
Speaker 4: then I walk away. I mean, sometimes it's weeks of
Speaker 4: you have to spend time with these people.
Speaker 2: For a really long time.
Speaker 4: There's all sorts of weird power dynamics at play where
Speaker 4: sometimes people don't feel comfortable speaking out about things, especially
Speaker 4: things like sexual harassment and stuff like that. Especially if
Speaker 4: you are a PSI in a position of less power
Speaker 4: and you would have to challenge.
Speaker 2: Some body that has more power than you. It creates
Speaker 2: really awkward situations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I imagine that is especially profound on
Speaker 1: a boat. Like in academia, it's it's a huge problem.
Speaker 1: And then you take all of these social complexities and
Speaker 1: problems of academia and then you put it on like
Speaker 1: a platform that is floating in the middle of the
Speaker 1: ocean that seems really challenging.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Do you have any advice that you would give young
Speaker 1: people who are really interested in marine biology but they
Speaker 1: are concerned about these things, like you know, maybe they're
Speaker 1: a minority, maybe they are worried that the field is
Speaker 1: going to be really really challenging because of these assumptions
Speaker 1: that like people make about what a scientist should be.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean what I've always done is I always remind
Speaker 4: myself that there are people who want help, and there
Speaker 4: are people who can be really good allies and friends
Speaker 4: in the field, And if you surround yourself with those people,
Speaker 4: then you have this sort of buffer where hopefully you
Speaker 4: don't have to be the one to put yourself at
Speaker 4: risk to say something to somebody that has more power
Speaker 4: than you or something like that, because you have other
Speaker 4: people in your corner that will speak out on your behalf.
Speaker 4: And those people do exist, and they are very prominent,
Speaker 4: and they usually make themselves very clear. They're very easy
Speaker 4: to spot speacon of light where you're like, ah, yes,
Speaker 4: you seem awesome, let's hang out. I want you in
Speaker 4: my circle, and like people that just hype you up
Speaker 4: because whenever you are constantly getting these like little tiny
Speaker 4: knock downs. It's really helpful to have someone that's constantly
Speaker 4: boosting you up so that you know you can keep
Speaker 4: your spirits high, keep your confidence up. I think the
Speaker 4: best way to fight imposter syndrome is to have people
Speaker 4: constantly tell you that you belong here and you're doing
Speaker 4: a great job. And having hype people having a height
Speaker 4: spore really helpful. The other thing I think is whenever
Speaker 4: people whatever, people maliciously try to make other people seem small,
Speaker 4: the best response is to be bigger and take up
Speaker 4: more space because they're trying to nudge you out, and
Speaker 4: so the best defense is offense to just be bigger,
Speaker 4: be bolder, like, don't shrink away. I think sometimes people
Speaker 4: when they come into a space and they feel like
Speaker 4: they aren't being valued or they're worried about being the
Speaker 4: only person like them and having this sort of Oh,
Speaker 4: I have to keep proving myself over and over and
Speaker 4: over again.
Speaker 2: Whenever I get in.
Speaker 4: Those situations, just walk in with all of the authority
Speaker 4: in the world, even if I even if I'm in
Speaker 4: my head kind of.
Speaker 2: Like ah, I feel like I am an impostor.
Speaker 4: Facing I'm like, yeah, I'm Jasmine Graham and I'm a
Speaker 4: shark site because I'm an expert in this field and
Speaker 4: I know what I'm talking about and everything is great.
Speaker 4: And then if anyone challenges that, I can say, well,
Speaker 4: you're wrong, yeah, because I do belong here. And even
Speaker 4: if you just say it, you say it enough, other
Speaker 4: people tell you enough, and then you feel it. You
Speaker 4: feel like you can walk into situations with your head
Speaker 4: held high and take up space. And the most important
Speaker 4: thing is to not let people like that win. And
Speaker 4: you let them win whenever you get small. So you
Speaker 4: gotta stand your stand your ground.
Speaker 3: I love. That's really really good advice.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's good advice, and probably everywhere in
Speaker 1: I've not just in science, but yeah, I mean I do.
Speaker 1: I can't help but always try to relate sort of
Speaker 1: be like human psychology back to back to animals, because
Speaker 1: that's what this show is. I don't necessarily know enough
Speaker 1: about shark behavior to say that sharks would also do this,
Speaker 1: but like really like when they are being threatened or
Speaker 1: being intimidated, really trying to kind of like say like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I am I am coming. I am a shark, and
Speaker 1: I'm tough and I'm cool and like, don't bother me,
Speaker 1: even though inside sharks might actually be quite scared.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean a lot of animals do this. Some
Speaker 4: animals do this quite literally. I mean porcupines put up
Speaker 4: their spines, puffer fish puff up. There's like snakes swelled,
Speaker 4: like there's this natural like something is threatening me.
Speaker 2: Be bigger.
Speaker 4: It's sort of a natural instinct of animals like well,
Speaker 4: if I'm bigger, then maybe they'll think to us about
Speaker 4: messing with me. And so having that attitude of.
Speaker 2: People love to punch down, you know.
Speaker 4: Like you know, people are always going after people that
Speaker 4: they feel like they can push around, and as soon
Speaker 4: as you stand your grounds, they're like, oh, this is not.
Speaker 2: A person to be trifled with. Let me go away.
Speaker 2: And that's what happens in the animal kingdom.
Speaker 4: Is no animal wants to hunt prey that's going to
Speaker 4: fight back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that is not what they want to do.
Speaker 4: If they have a choice between like a sleeping rat
Speaker 4: and a king cobra, they're going to go for the rat.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't want to find a king cobra.
Speaker 2: I might lose.
Speaker 4: So yeah, just being big and helping people see like oh,
Speaker 4: you think you're about to punch down, but really you're
Speaker 4: punching up yea, And they're like.
Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, maybe think I want to do that? Yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe.
Speaker 1: Maybe think twice about eating that pufferfish that now is
Speaker 1: a big spiky balloon. You mentioned earlier that the bonnehead
Speaker 1: sharks like swim around like they don't know where they're
Speaker 1: they're going.
Speaker 3: Can you expand on that?
Speaker 1: Why Why do they swim around in sort of this
Speaker 1: awkward way.
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I don't know.
Speaker 4: Some sharks are just There are some sharks that are
Speaker 4: really like, I'm an excellent navigator, I know where I'm going,
Speaker 4: I have, you know, all of these skills to avoid
Speaker 4: being eaten or to hunt or whatever. And then there's
Speaker 4: bonneheads who, for some reason like they just were like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, I guess I'm just gonna go over here,
Speaker 4: and then I'm gonna go over here, and just kind
Speaker 4: of I think that's because of how they live their lives.
Speaker 4: They're kind of just swimming through seagrass looking for a
Speaker 4: little crabs and crustations.
Speaker 2: They're not really.
Speaker 4: Going after like tuna or something like that, right, they
Speaker 4: don't need to be like out smarting prey.
Speaker 2: Necessarily, they're kind of just like yum yum yumps.
Speaker 3: They're enjoying.
Speaker 4: So they just live this like blisful life where they're
Speaker 4: just like I'm just swimming through the sea grass, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna have a little salad and I'm gonna have a
Speaker 4: little shrimp, and I'm just gonna like move on with
Speaker 4: my life, whereas I feel like other sharks are either
Speaker 4: like getting hunted down my other sharks a lot, or
Speaker 4: they are like having to you know, get prey that
Speaker 4: is fast or sneaky or camouflaged and you know.
Speaker 2: All of these things. I think that bonnet heads they just.
Speaker 4: Tend to have very easy lives and so they're like
Speaker 4: natural instincts, maybe not as keen as some other sharks
Speaker 4: that are out there in like the rough and tumble
Speaker 4: of the deep sea where everything is trying to kill you.
Speaker 4: Bonnet Heads are just kind of like, I don't know,
Speaker 4: you've tagged me, and I don't know. I feel like
Speaker 4: I didn't quite like that, But what if I just
Speaker 4: swam right back into your head?
Speaker 2: Because that and then I want to go that way.
Speaker 2: I know that the last time I went that way,
Speaker 2: I was in a net, right, and then you let
Speaker 2: me go.
Speaker 3: But maybe this time I think.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna swim back that way.
Speaker 1: Let's try it to get yeah this time, maybe this
Speaker 1: time there will be a nice snack rather than being
Speaker 1: in a net.
Speaker 3: Oh a net again. Well, third time's the charm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's really cute. I'm really being sold on these bonnet
Speaker 1: heead sharks. That's I love that they're just out there
Speaker 1: scrounging around having girl dinner. I when I am left,
Speaker 1: I owned devices, Like, if there's not another human being
Speaker 1: to enforce me to have a normal human dinner, I
Speaker 1: will do bon ahead sharks stuff. I'll just be like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe some pasta. Are these you know,
Speaker 1: potato chips still good? They're like under the counter. I
Speaker 1: don't know, just a little this, little that. But it
Speaker 1: is really fascinating that they are. Are they the only
Speaker 1: shark species we know of that is omnivorous or are
Speaker 1: they just more more omnivorous than other sharks.
Speaker 4: So recently, scientists figured out that whale sharks are actually
Speaker 4: digesting a lot of the algae that they suck in
Speaker 4: with their mouths while they're getting planked and stuff. So
Speaker 4: whale sharks are also omnivorous, but whale sharks are little
Speaker 4: different because they're passive feeders.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of just like, yeah, you got some
Speaker 2: plants in your.
Speaker 3: Mouth by accident, big whoop.
Speaker 4: You figured out a way to die. Just it good
Speaker 4: for you, Yeah, Whereas I mean you open up like
Speaker 4: a bonnetthead shark stomach and it's just.
Speaker 2: Like grass grass.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and so they they're all it's almost
Speaker 1: as if they are they could say, if they continued
Speaker 1: on for millions of years, like they could completely turn.
Speaker 3: To be herbivores.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so that's something that's really interesting about
Speaker 4: bonnetheads and one of the reasons why we're really interested
Speaker 4: in this idea of them being omnivorous and like a
Speaker 4: huge percentage of their diet being sea grass, because there's
Speaker 4: two sides.
Speaker 2: To this, like one, do they need.
Speaker 4: Sea grass to like have a balanced diet, like are
Speaker 4: they going to perform or if they don't eat a
Speaker 4: lot of sea grass. And that's an important question because
Speaker 4: our seagrass beds are going away, and so if we
Speaker 4: lose sea grass, is that detrimental to the bonnet heads
Speaker 4: or are they kind of just like filling in with
Speaker 4: sea grass? And then on the other side of that, well,
Speaker 4: if there's a shortage of meat options, like let's say
Speaker 4: the like entire shrimp population goes away, or like we
Speaker 4: have a huge decline of the fish, Like, will they
Speaker 4: just be like, Okay, I guess I'll just eat vegetables.
Speaker 4: It's like, do you need both of those right to
Speaker 4: be healthy? Or like if you lost one, could you
Speaker 4: just totally just only eat the other thing? Like is
Speaker 4: there a reason.
Speaker 2: Why you're eating both?
Speaker 4: Because you know, like people whenever we go like vegetarian
Speaker 4: or vegan, like you have to be very specific about
Speaker 4: what you eat because there's certain nutrients that you get
Speaker 4: from meat, and if you aren't diligent about getting those
Speaker 4: in the specific other foods that you eat, then bad
Speaker 4: things can happen. Is it the same for bonnettheads? Or
Speaker 4: could bonnettheads just totally just survive off of seagrass without
Speaker 4: any other nutritional output.
Speaker 2: Or vice versa.
Speaker 1: Are they obligate surf and turf eaters or is this
Speaker 1: by choice?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That is exactly that.
Speaker 1: Is really fascinating. I'm always interested in like these evolutionary
Speaker 1: histories of animals that like they started out maybe as herbivores,
Speaker 1: then they became carnivores, but then they went back to
Speaker 1: being herbivores. Like panda bears are really interesting, right, like
Speaker 1: they maybe not entirely carnivores, but at least heavily carnivores
Speaker 1: with some omnivorous traits. And then they started to completely
Speaker 1: specialize in bamboo, and now that's it. That's that's it
Speaker 1: for them. It's got to be bamboo or nothing, ride
Speaker 1: or die with that bamboo for better or worse.
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is which is a evolutionary mistake on their
Speaker 4: Sometimes you adapt and then you're like I've adapted in
Speaker 4: the direction.
Speaker 1: Like investing in just one stock, like hey, you know
Speaker 1: what this isthereum coin seems really good.
Speaker 3: I'm going to invest in all of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's but that's the thing, right,
Speaker 1: Like evolution doesn't have foresight. It's not like, well maybe
Speaker 1: we shouldn't like invest completely in bamboo. If there's a
Speaker 1: ton of bamboo, if there's a ton of seagrass, it's
Speaker 1: just like great, this will be like this forever because
Speaker 1: like you know, there's no it's yes, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting.
Speaker 4: And like I talk about that in the book, is that,
Speaker 4: like a lot of times people have this like view
Speaker 4: of evolution being very linear. We have that like stereotypical
Speaker 4: image of like a monkey, and then it transforms into
Speaker 4: like a man in a suit, and it's like, that's
Speaker 4: not how that works. Such straight line evolution is kind
Speaker 4: of just like roll the dice. Yeah, what works in
Speaker 4: this moment? All right, sounds good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And something that's really interesting about hammerheads is, you know,
Speaker 4: the first thing that people always ask me is like
Speaker 4: what do hammerheads use their heads for?
Speaker 2: And then you.
Speaker 4: Know, I say, there's a lot of theories, and then
Speaker 4: I tell them the theories.
Speaker 2: They can turn.
Speaker 4: Better, their eyes are on the side, so they have
Speaker 4: near three sixty vision, It spreads out their sensory organs
Speaker 4: that sense electrical charge. They can use it to pin
Speaker 4: down sting rays, all of these things. And then I
Speaker 4: always end it with or it's just as likely that
Speaker 4: this is a random mutation.
Speaker 2: That they've been trying to get rid of ever since.
Speaker 4: Because there are two conflicting hypotheses right now on the phylogeny,
Speaker 4: which is like how things are related. That says like,
Speaker 4: actually the most ancestral, the one that's closest to the
Speaker 4: most ancestral what was the ancestor of the hammerhead sharks
Speaker 4: is the like wing head shark that has like the
Speaker 4: widest head that's like three fourths as long as its body,
Speaker 4: and then the ones that are more close in evolutionary
Speaker 4: history to now, they came about with small heads. And
Speaker 4: it's like, hmm, our hammerheads actually benefiting from his head
Speaker 4: or are they? Like, I mean, I didn't die from
Speaker 4: having this giant head, so I guess it's fine. Yeah,
Speaker 4: which sometimes things happen because they didn't die exactly necessarily helpful.
Speaker 4: It's just they didn't die and things still wanted to reproduce.
Speaker 3: With them, right, Yeah, did you die? Yes?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: And did you have offscreen? Yes? No, hooray you win
Speaker 3: for now. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is really interesting because it's like maybe just like
Speaker 1: great great, great great great great great Amma was like
Speaker 1: really horny for big heads, and now you're stuck with
Speaker 1: a big head forever.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's yeah, It's just it's super funny, like evolution
Speaker 4: is so weird like that, and then it'll be like, oh,
Speaker 4: this wasn't beneficial until it was, right, and then ha
Speaker 4: ha ha, you didn't want to mate with all of
Speaker 4: these like weirdo big headed sharks, and then something happened
Speaker 4: and suddenly having a big head is an advantage and
Speaker 4: don't you feel silly?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love Like there's that the idea that
Speaker 1: maybe the uh you know, kid, I'm trying to remember
Speaker 1: the exact name. It's this, there's a deer that had
Speaker 1: like the massive, massive antlers.
Speaker 3: The Irish elk. There we go.
Speaker 1: I'm I totally didn't just google that, by the way,
Speaker 1: the Irish elk, And like some of the theories of
Speaker 1: like why it just like went extinct is just like, well,
Speaker 1: forrest kind of changed and they couldn't get in them.
Speaker 3: And that's it's just so funny to.
Speaker 1: Me, right where it's like, yeah, I have these huge
Speaker 1: antlers and all the ladies love my huge antlers, and
Speaker 1: then just trying to get into the new sort of
Speaker 1: more dense forest just like bonk bonk bonk, I can't
Speaker 1: get in.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Or like in the shark world, we have the megalodon,
Speaker 4: which everyone is always like, ah, the Megalodon, so cool,
Speaker 4: such a great shark. It was giant and bigger is
Speaker 4: not necessarily better because it was great. They were big.
Speaker 4: They were like, ha ha ha, I'm eating all the whales.
Speaker 4: This is awesome. And all the whales were like, oh no,
Speaker 4: there's a big, scary predator. I'm gonna be really fast
Speaker 4: and be able to swim fast and be small and
Speaker 4: be able to swim fast, and like that's my strategy.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to dodge them. And then Meglaedon was like.
Speaker 4: All right, you're kind of fast, so you're hard to hunt.
Speaker 4: But you know this is fine. We're chilling, we're vibing.
Speaker 4: And then great hammerhead sharks are not great hammerheads. Great
Speaker 4: white sharks came to exist and then they're like white
Speaker 4: sharks are like, ha ha, I am smaller than you
Speaker 4: and therefore faster and I can I can catch more
Speaker 4: whales than you.
Speaker 2: Haha. You thought that you were so.
Speaker 4: Big and scary, but actually you're slow and I'm fast,
Speaker 4: so mahhahaha.
Speaker 2: And then the Megaladon.
Speaker 3: Was like, oh no, yeah, now.
Speaker 4: I have competition and I can't compete because I'm too
Speaker 4: fast and I can't evolve to be small fast enough.
Speaker 2: Oh no, and then death.
Speaker 4: And then on the other side of that, the whales
Speaker 4: are like, ha, no, we were so small and so
Speaker 4: fast and that means nothing now because white sharks are
Speaker 4: even faster. And then they're like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: What do we do?
Speaker 4: And then there's like the one like group of whales
Speaker 4: that was like a little fat and slow and they
Speaker 4: were just getting munched on by the megalodon and everybody.
Speaker 2: Was like ha ha, you suck. And then suddenly the
Speaker 2: great white sharks were like, ah, then I want to
Speaker 2: eat you because I can't fix you in my mouth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, too big, big problem.
Speaker 4: And then they're like, haha, joke's on you, all of
Speaker 4: you small ones.
Speaker 2: We will rise now. And now whales are like giant.
Speaker 3: Yes, uh yeah, I do love.
Speaker 1: I love like also just the image of the great
Speaker 1: white shark like you know, just little, not to us,
Speaker 1: little but compared to the megalodon, just like persistently yoink
Speaker 1: grabbing little you know fish or whales like away from
Speaker 1: the megalodon.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it is, it is.
Speaker 1: It's always really interesting how Yeah, evolution is a wild
Speaker 1: circuitous ride. It is not like yes, I have now
Speaker 1: evolved better teeth and everyone else has better teeth. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm going to like that one weird shark that has
Speaker 1: the the it had the weird like almost saw blade
Speaker 1: mouth at hiliocaprion.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just like, well, that was kind of
Speaker 1: a mistake that didn't work very well, but it.
Speaker 2: Just as likely could have worked amazingly.
Speaker 1: Yes, it worked at the time. It was it seemed
Speaker 1: like a good idea at the time. Uh, the the
Speaker 1: offspring that had that mutation, they survived, they made it
Speaker 1: work until they didn't. Now we don't have cool buzz
Speaker 1: buzz saw sharks anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But something that's really cool about sharks and something that
Speaker 4: I find really fascinating about them is even though you
Speaker 4: know they're evolving and adapting, their basic body structure stays
Speaker 4: pretty conserved throughout you know, this four hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: million years they've been on this planet. There's like, you know,
Speaker 4: the Carsonization where everything's becoming a crab and then sharks
Speaker 4: are just like but also, I'm just going to be
Speaker 4: a shark. Yeah, it's working.
Speaker 1: Everyone's everyone's over there being like, have you heard about
Speaker 1: this new thing called crab? And sharks are like not interested.
Speaker 1: It's I'm happy with myself. Yeah, speaking of interesting sort
Speaker 1: of shark shapes or like the consistent shark shape. Can
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about your research on sawfish,
Speaker 1: because they are another one of those that it's like, huh,
Speaker 1: why they got that saw in the front of them,
Speaker 1: but then the rest of them is just like normal shark.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I so obviously you can tell that I have a
Speaker 4: thing for sharks and rays with weird faces. Yes, I
Speaker 4: just I just love it. If you have a weird head,
Speaker 4: I want to study you. I don't understand why you
Speaker 4: have that.
Speaker 3: It's someone for everyone.
Speaker 4: Sawfish are really cool because I mean they have have
Speaker 4: this long saw, which the scientific term is a rostrum,
Speaker 4: and they just whack things with it, and like that's
Speaker 4: the strategy, just like fruit ninja. Yeah, just go into
Speaker 4: a school of fish and just slice and dice, and
Speaker 4: it's a really cool strategy. And then it also secondarily,
Speaker 4: they have all of these ampulae of Lorenzini, which are
Speaker 4: those sensory organs that sent electricity that I was talking
Speaker 4: about before, and so it's like a it's like a
Speaker 4: fish detector. So they got this long nose and they
Speaker 4: can just like.
Speaker 1: Like are distributed along that that long saw. So it's
Speaker 1: like it's like a metal detector, but for electrical signals.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then like they sensed it and then they
Speaker 4: just slip slash slash.
Speaker 2: Cool and I mean it's cool. It's a cool strategy.
Speaker 4: And they're rays, so they are like not true sharks,
Speaker 4: but they do have shark like body shape, but they
Speaker 4: still have wings like array, and their gill slits are
Speaker 4: still on the bottom.
Speaker 2: They still spend a lot of time like laying on the.
Speaker 4: Bottom and they just kind of lay on the bottom
Speaker 4: and then whenever they feel like eating, they just slice
Speaker 4: the dice and then they go back to laying. And honestly,
Speaker 4: it's an inspirational way to live your life.
Speaker 2: Lay eat, lay eat.
Speaker 4: I track the movements of these animals for my graduate research,
Speaker 4: and literally we would just have these receivers where we
Speaker 4: can detect if one of the sawfish that we put
Speaker 4: a transmitter in is by receiver, and it would just
Speaker 4: be days of this sawfish not moving for days by
Speaker 4: this receiver. They were just like when I live here
Speaker 4: now and I'm just gonna live here for like two weeks,
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna move any further than like five hundred yards.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna just gonna be.
Speaker 4: Here it's like it's like okay, cool, I'm glad you've
Speaker 4: invested in this place.
Speaker 2: And then they'll be like, ah.
Speaker 4: But now I want to move to a new place.
Speaker 4: And then they will just in May just up and
Speaker 4: be like we're out of here, and they go all
Speaker 4: the way up the coast of Florida. On both sides,
Speaker 4: they're like all the way up to like Appalatricola Bay,
Speaker 4: which is by like Panama City Beach. This is the Panhandle,
Speaker 4: the very tip right before you get into Alabama. Sometimes
Speaker 4: they'll be we have we have environmental DNA that suggests
Speaker 4: that they go all the way to Mississippi, and then
Speaker 4: we've had detections all the way to Georgia.
Speaker 2: We've had people see them before in South Carolina.
Speaker 4: So they just are like I don't want to move,
Speaker 4: and now I want to move really far and then
Speaker 4: I'm gonna sit and then I'm gonna go back.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do really aspire to these charks because
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm similar where sometimes I need a
Speaker 1: lot of naps and then after I've had my little nap,
Speaker 1: I'm like ready to go. I'm full of energy. But
Speaker 1: then it's I need those naps. I need to be
Speaker 1: able to just like lie down for a while before
Speaker 1: I am ready to go to the panhandle, which in
Speaker 1: my situation it's just like going to the grocery store.
Speaker 1: I also love their little faces like underneath, because you
Speaker 1: know their mouth is it looks like it is underneath there,
Speaker 1: so rather than kind of like you know, it's the
Speaker 1: same thing as like with rays, Right you flip over
Speaker 1: a ray or don't do that, but if you do
Speaker 1: do it, you see like they have their little mouth.
Speaker 1: It's adorable and it's the same thing here and you
Speaker 1: look at it and they like it goes from being
Speaker 1: very menacing looking when you look at it like top
Speaker 1: down and you see this like saw blade rostrum and
Speaker 1: it's like very intimidating. And you look underneath and it's
Speaker 1: like this little smiley face and a big nose. Yeah.
Speaker 4: They I think they kind of look like someone who
Speaker 4: took their dentures out and they're smiling at you.
Speaker 2: It's like a little muffing face.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, Oh it's so cool, very very cool. What
Speaker 1: is one aspect of your work, like when you're.
Speaker 3: Out on the boat and.
Speaker 1: Doing research on these sharks, Like what do you think
Speaker 1: is one of the most surprising aspects that people when you.
Speaker 3: Tell people about it.
Speaker 1: That you have to do, like when you are handling
Speaker 1: sharks or when you're doing shark research.
Speaker 2: I mean, the first thing that people always ask me
Speaker 2: is have you been bitten by a shark? And I
Speaker 2: have not.
Speaker 4: And people have this image that like sharks are just
Speaker 4: out to get you, which is unfairly earned because they're
Speaker 4: just vibe and just like any other animal, and they
Speaker 4: have this bad reputation and so it's like, yes, this
Speaker 4: is a wild animal, but so are tons of other animals,
Speaker 4: and you respect them, you take precautions, you don't do
Speaker 4: anything that is going to obviously upset them and feel
Speaker 4: make them feel like they need to fight you. And
Speaker 4: they are just kind of like, I mean, I don't
Speaker 4: like this, but I don't feel like you're trying to
Speaker 4: kill me. So I'm kind of just gonna sit here
Speaker 4: and then I hope you let me go, and then
Speaker 4: as soon as you let me go, I'm out of here.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So's it's it's sort of like, you know, I have
Speaker 4: a dog taking my dog to a that he's like squirming, yeahs, like, ah,
Speaker 4: please don't put that thermometer in my butt, which is fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very fair. They must be so confused by that,
Speaker 1: like why would you do that?
Speaker 4: And so it's the same thing with starts in the
Speaker 4: same way that I would handle a dog or a
Speaker 4: cat or any other animal that people normally interact with,
Speaker 4: Like it's just as likely that a dog or a
Speaker 4: cat could bite or scratch you.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're probably yes, you're probably more at risk of
Speaker 1: my dog Cookie nipping you than a shark nipping you,
Speaker 1: because she is uh, she expresses discomfort with just like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put your finger in my mouth now because
Speaker 1: you're doing something I don't like.
Speaker 3: This cold thing is up my butt, and I do
Speaker 3: not like it.
Speaker 1: So, like I feel it is funny because like I
Speaker 1: feel like we give such a pass to like cute
Speaker 1: little dogs, cute little cats, right, and they're biting and
Speaker 1: they're scratching, and but like you know, with sharks, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same thing, right, you might get
Speaker 1: a little a little bite from a shark if it's
Speaker 1: scared or something or curious, like sometimes like when I'm
Speaker 1: petting one of my sisters in law's cats, like it's
Speaker 1: not upset. It's just like, well, I'm gonna now taste
Speaker 1: your hand and just give it a chomp. It's like, okay, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know why you're doing that. But we give
Speaker 1: cats and dogs this past and then sharks. Then when
Speaker 1: a shark is like, you know, it takes a little
Speaker 1: curiosity nibble, it's like, oh, well, you're you're just onto
Speaker 1: logically evil animal.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4: And so whenever I'm teaching people like interns and students
Speaker 4: how to handle sharks, I always tell them never yourself
Speaker 4: between the shark and the water. Like, if you're on
Speaker 4: the boat and you're you're doing a shark tagging, you're
Speaker 4: going to always be inside the boat and have the
Speaker 4: shark facing the outside the boat because guess where the
Speaker 4: shark wants to be in the wood. So like, if
Speaker 4: the shark gets away from you, the shark is not
Speaker 4: gonna think oh let me go bye that person. It's
Speaker 4: gonna think freedom and jump into the water. But if
Speaker 4: you're standing between the shark and the water, the shark
Speaker 4: thinks I have to go through you, right. I need
Speaker 4: I need to get you out of my way.
Speaker 1: I need to be like the kool Aid man, and
Speaker 1: like barrel through this person like a wall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: So that's that's what I tell people, is like sharks
Speaker 4: are like any other animal, we give them this bad reputation.
Speaker 4: I mean, a shark will be mining its own business,
Speaker 4: swimming down beach and the headlines will read like man
Speaker 4: eating sharks stock beach goers in Miami, and it's like,
Speaker 4: all right, this shark is literally just swimming mining its business.
Speaker 4: Note how it has swam past hundreds of people and
Speaker 4: just kept going on.
Speaker 2: Its very way. It is not interested in any of you.
Speaker 2: But we don't say that about like a squirrel, Like
Speaker 2: if a squirrel is running around Central Park, We're not
Speaker 2: like man eating squirrels stocks people in Central Park.
Speaker 1: Although sometimes like college campus squirrels are legitimately legitimately frightening
Speaker 1: because they're so used to humans and they understand that
Speaker 1: we have food, and I have there have been squirrels
Speaker 1: that have been very intimidating. Also ground squirrels when you're
Speaker 1: on the beach and they learn that like humans have food,
Speaker 1: they will not leave you alone, like they are determined
Speaker 1: and if they're like you have a sandwich, they if
Speaker 1: they could kill me for a sandwich, I'm sure they would.
Speaker 1: They absolutely have that in them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they're mammals and they're furries, so we get
Speaker 4: them a past. That's what I've noticed. Yeah, you're a mammal,
Speaker 4: we give you a pass. Or like you're like us, Yeah,
Speaker 4: you can't be evil.
Speaker 3: I mean it's like.
Speaker 1: Because like bears I think are similar. It's like a
Speaker 1: similar situation with bears, right, Like, bears can be dangerous, right, Like,
Speaker 1: they can hurt and injure a human being, just like
Speaker 1: a shirt can hurt and injure a human being. Usually
Speaker 1: it's defensive or by accident, but you know, on occasion, yeah,
Speaker 1: like it can chomp you up. But then we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: but bears are so cute and so cuttly. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: they are definitely not cuddly, but we still like to
Speaker 1: give them a pass.
Speaker 3: Do you remember that.
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly when it was, but there was
Speaker 1: that there was a they had sent like a drone
Speaker 1: off the coast of I want to say, somewhere in California.
Speaker 1: But like they were just using this drone to like
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like survey the area, and they
Speaker 1: saw a bunch of sharks and also a bunch of
Speaker 1: swimmers and it's like you just saw that there was
Speaker 1: this like people who were swimming would not be able
Speaker 1: to see these sharks. It was only because they had
Speaker 1: this like drone camera footage, and the sharks were completely
Speaker 1: ignoring all of the surfers, all of the swimmers, and
Speaker 1: there were more sharks than people expected that there would
Speaker 1: be in this area, and they were just like, yeah, man, whatever,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really care. I'm not interested in you,
Speaker 1: and like usually it's just it was kind of interesting
Speaker 1: because some of the response to that was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, there's so many sharks.
Speaker 3: That's so scary.
Speaker 1: But it seems like the response should be like, there's
Speaker 1: so many more sharks than we thought, and they're ignoring everyone.
Speaker 3: They have no interest.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Like I'll go out with friends or family and we'll
Speaker 4: go to the beach or something and they'll be like, jasma,
Speaker 4: there's sharks in this water. And I'm like, all right,
Speaker 4: do me a favor. Stick your finger in the water,
Speaker 4: lick your finger. Is it salty?
Speaker 2: And they're like yeah, And I'm like, then there are
Speaker 2: sharks confirmed.
Speaker 4: Yes, sharks do live in the ocean. It is it
Speaker 4: is their home. There's no such thing as shark infested waters.
Speaker 3: Yes, they live there, there's people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I guess.
Speaker 4: So it's like, ah, sharks in ocean makes headlines. Why,
Speaker 4: like you wouldn't go, oh my gosh, there are birds
Speaker 4: in the sky.
Speaker 1: Yeah I know. I mean, yeah, I think that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. I think that, you know, jaws and other
Speaker 1: sort of a kind of media stories about sharks and
Speaker 1: shark attacks are they're so sensationalized, right, Like it's it
Speaker 1: makes it seem like these are just vicious predators and
Speaker 1: obviously you know they are predators, but for like fish
Speaker 1: and seals and crabs and squid. Uh. But you know,
Speaker 1: unless they kind of mistake you for one of those things,
Speaker 1: you're usually gonna be fine. Like I'm not not saying
Speaker 1: like go and find a shark and like put your
Speaker 1: hand in its mouth and tease it.
Speaker 3: But you know, for the most part.
Speaker 1: Like shark shark attacks are just incredibly rare. It just
Speaker 1: is very unlikely to happen. And even if it does happen,
Speaker 1: usually they like kind of take an exploratory bite and
Speaker 1: they're like, uh, yuck, no, thank you, check please.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It sort of wild to me. How how much attention.
Speaker 4: It gets because there's nothing else like that where you
Speaker 4: have a story where someone has an interaction with wildlife
Speaker 4: and it like is world news if somebody if somebody
Speaker 4: dies by a shark attack, it like is literally news
Speaker 4: all over the world. It's like headlines all over the world.
Speaker 4: And that happens like maybe ten times in a year,
Speaker 4: and there are billions of people in this world. I
Speaker 4: can't imagine something like being that hyper focused on like
Speaker 4: anything else. It's like, ah, this person you know, fell
Speaker 4: behind a vending machine and got stuck and died.
Speaker 1: Stairs killed so many more people just stares, just get
Speaker 1: out and it's it's fine.
Speaker 4: It's whenever people are like, well, I don't want to
Speaker 4: go into the ocean because it's I'm scared of sharks,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, there's so many fun things to do
Speaker 4: in the ocean and like so many fun critters to
Speaker 4: see and like things to learn about, and you're gonna
Speaker 4: let something like that stop you, Like it's like I
Speaker 4: always try to like outweigh yeah, the like sphere with
Speaker 4: like ah, but like beaches are fun, cruises are fun.
Speaker 4: You know, all of these things are fun. Yeah, they
Speaker 4: take place of the ocean. Like you're just never gonna
Speaker 4: go into the ocean because you might be one of
Speaker 4: the billions and billions and billions of people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, world that gets bit by a shark. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I'm like, do you drive?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, like.
Speaker 2: You you could definitely die getting in a car.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've already survived that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've already survived a much more dangerous activity that day,
Speaker 1: which is driving.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So it's like you, you know, you know how you
Speaker 4: make the choice, but like, yes, you could get in
Speaker 4: a car accident and you could die, but it's way
Speaker 4: better to drive than to not drive. Like, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm trying to create that same sense with the ocean,
Speaker 4: and like, yes, we obey traffic laws, we put on
Speaker 4: our seat belts, we put air bags in our car,
Speaker 4: we have all of these safety measures in place. It's
Speaker 4: the same thing with sharks. There are lifeguards. You can
Speaker 4: do certain things like not swimming at dawn or dusk,
Speaker 4: don't swim by you know, floating dead whale carcasses.
Speaker 1: Look at it, man, oh man, I really wanted to
Speaker 1: swim next to that dead bloated whale carcass.
Speaker 4: You know, like just pay if you're diving, don't go
Speaker 4: touching sharks because honestly, most of the shark bites that
Speaker 4: we have in the world are provoked, and usually it's
Speaker 4: somebody touching a shark. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you
Speaker 4: wouldn't go grab a squirrel in Central Park because guess
Speaker 4: what it's gonna bite you. Yeah, don't go grab in
Speaker 4: a shark, don't touch them, don't get in their space,
Speaker 4: don't swim towards them. Definitely, don't make them feel like
Speaker 4: they're cornered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: And then the other thing that has happens is like
Speaker 4: people are actively in chummed waters or they're spearfishing. Spearfishermen
Speaker 4: also have the one of the highest rates of like
Speaker 4: having shark bites. It's because they're literally like shooting thing
Speaker 4: at you know, fish and it's bloody and it's creating
Speaker 4: all of this mess. So yeah, obviously you're going to
Speaker 4: have those, you know, increased likelihoods there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you do want to know what it's like
Speaker 1: to touch a shark, you could get like a I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'd say like two ordred three hundred grit
Speaker 1: sandpaper and rub that. That's gonna be kind of what
Speaker 1: it feels like. There are aquariums. You'd probably want definitely
Speaker 1: go to like a you know, major aquarium for this
Speaker 1: so that you know that they're taking care of the
Speaker 1: animals well. But like say Monterey Bay Aquarium, they do
Speaker 1: have some tanks where they will let you very gently
Speaker 1: put your hand in the water and just let a
Speaker 1: raise go by, and that also gives you a pretty
Speaker 1: good sense of what that feels like. So, yeah, there
Speaker 1: are ways to have the experience of what it is
Speaker 1: like to touch a shark without actually trying to touch
Speaker 1: a shark. And I know they're cute, and I also
Speaker 1: want to cuddle them. I want to hold them in
Speaker 1: my arms and sing to them, but they won't like that,
Speaker 1: so I won't do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to.
Speaker 4: Have in a controlled setting with trained professionals that can
Speaker 4: monitor the situation and the shark behavior.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Before we go, can you speak a bit about minorities
Speaker 1: in shark science and how people could get involved.
Speaker 4: Sure, So, Minorities in Shark sciences or myths as we
Speaker 4: call it.
Speaker 3: Good it's a solid acronym.
Speaker 1: Can I just say solid acronym?
Speaker 4: So myths is dedicated to supporting gender, minorities of color,
Speaker 4: and folks from the global South that are interested in
Speaker 4: marine science, particularly the study of sharks and rays, and
Speaker 4: we do that in a number of ways. We serve
Speaker 4: what we call ka gray So we have outreach programs
Speaker 4: for youth, spring break camps, summer camps, science at the
Speaker 4: c days, we go to schools and community groups to
Speaker 4: talk about sharks and their relatives. For folks that are
Speaker 4: older that are interested in getting into the field, we
Speaker 4: have fellowships, internships, We have workshops like professional development workshops,
Speaker 4: a huge variety. We try to make it as accessful
Speaker 4: as possible, so it's all expenses paid.
Speaker 2: There are three day long.
Speaker 4: Time commitments, there are one month to three months. There's
Speaker 4: all sorts of options to engage with marine science in
Speaker 4: a meaningful way, even hybrid experiences where it's partially online.
Speaker 4: And then we do research, so we help support people
Speaker 4: doing research all over the world. We have about five
Speaker 4: hundred members representing about thirty four different countries and the
Speaker 4: majority of US states and territories, and we support them
Speaker 4: in doing their research, particularly focused on in inclusive conservation
Speaker 4: and research, where we center the voices of communities that
Speaker 4: don't typically get to be heard in science or in
Speaker 4: conservation and ways to get involved. We have applications for
Speaker 4: programs open pretty much all the time, so you can
Speaker 4: go on our website and you can join our mailing
Speaker 4: list to stay up to date on opportunities. You can
Speaker 4: also on our website find the donation button you can
Speaker 4: donate to support us. You can buy swag if you
Speaker 4: do want to come touch a shark. We do have
Speaker 4: a fundraiser happening right now, which is Shark Scientists for
Speaker 4: a Day, where you can buy a ticket and come
Speaker 4: and learn about the research that we do. Come on
Speaker 4: the boat with us and be a shark scientist for
Speaker 4: a day, and by doing that, you allow two of
Speaker 4: our participants to get hands on training. So your ticket
Speaker 4: pays for two participants in one of our workshops to
Speaker 4: get training as well, so that is an option. And
Speaker 4: then there's tons of information about our various programs all
Speaker 4: on our website. We also are very active on social media.
Speaker 4: We're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok nice TikTok.
Speaker 1: I totally understand TikTok. I am completely with it.
Speaker 2: I will takes one of us.
Speaker 1: Yes, Shark Talk, I will link to that. I'll put
Speaker 1: a link to that website in the show notes and
Speaker 1: where and can people pick up your book? Just in
Speaker 1: bookstores or online? Where can people get to your book?
Speaker 1: Sharks don't sync.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you can get the book pretty much anywhere
Speaker 4: books are sold, So check out your local independent bookstore.
Speaker 4: Support independent bookstores. And if you don't have an independent
Speaker 4: bookstore that's around you. Barnes and Nobles, Books, a million, Amazon,
Speaker 4: all of those places will have it. And it's on
Speaker 4: audiobook and it's on ebook, so check with your library.
Speaker 4: See if it's in your library. See if it's on Libby.
Speaker 4: You can read it an e book, So check that out.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Jasmine.
Speaker 1: This was really really fun and I learned a lot
Speaker 1: about bon ahead Sharks. Now it's time to play a
Speaker 1: little game called guests Who's Squawking? The Mystery Animal sound Game?
Speaker 1: Full disclosure, I am recording this in the future, which
Speaker 1: I guess is your past, but the future from when I.
Speaker 3: Recorded the rest of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Anyways, So last week's episode was a rerun because I
Speaker 1: needed a little vacation.
Speaker 3: It was called.
Speaker 1: Lap Camels, and so this was the mystery animal sound
Speaker 1: hint from that episode it was you may find these
Speaker 1: little dudes booging to an imaginary beat, but it's probably
Speaker 1: for the prey that lies beneath their.
Speaker 5: Feet, so cute.
Speaker 1: Congratulations to Sherry Ce for guessing correctly that this is
Speaker 1: the American woodcock.
Speaker 3: It is pretty.
Speaker 1: Internet famous for walking in a very particular rhythmic fashion,
Speaker 1: which is thought to possibly be to create vibrations under
Speaker 1: the earth that mimics that of rain, which would then
Speaker 1: drive worms up to the surface. But yes, it makes
Speaker 1: that adorable little pink sound, and it is also the
Speaker 1: bird itself, very very cute. All right, So two weeks
Speaker 1: ago we had an episode called Hot Sharks Summer. Highly
Speaker 1: recommend listening to that one if you haven't already given
Speaker 1: that this one if you liked the sharks on this
Speaker 1: when we talk about other sharks there. But the mystery
Speaker 1: animal sound hint was this, don't talk with your mouth full.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I can't stop laughing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So congratulations to Ari L.
Speaker 3: M roots K for guessing.
Speaker 1: Correctly that this is a harbor seal enjoying a fish
Speaker 1: with his snoot in the water.
Speaker 3: Very cool.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to hold off on doing a new
Speaker 1: mystery animal sound game because next week I plan to
Speaker 1: do a listener Questions episode, so the week after I
Speaker 1: will do a new one when I have a guest on.
Speaker 1: But yeah, because I'm doing a listener Questions episode next week,
Speaker 1: I have not put in writing that. So if you
Speaker 1: do have a question that you'd like me to answer,
Speaker 1: do write in and maybe I'll answer it next week,
Speaker 1: maybe sometime in the future, or send you an email.
Speaker 1: And I do love your questions, so write to me
Speaker 1: at Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com. Thank you guys
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you guys for listening. If you are
Speaker 1: enjoying the show, if you leave a rating and review,
Speaker 1: that really does help me and I do actually read
Speaker 1: every single one of them. And thanks to the Space
Speaker 1: Classics for their super awesome song XO Lumina. Creature features
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like the one
Speaker 1: you just heard, visit the.
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: Or Hey gus, what where have you listened to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows? I don't judge you, not your mother, and
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what to do except don't poke
Speaker 1: a shark unless you are being supervised by experts.
Speaker 3: See you next Wednesday. A MHM