WEBVTT - Creature Classic: Bonnethead Sharks Are Sweet Babies 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:11.360 Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:16.840 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:20.720 and today on this show, we are continuing hout Sharks 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.960 Summer with a special guest who is a shark biologist 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.400 and expert, and we are going to learn a lot 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.440 about sharks about life. So welcome to the show. The 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:36.800 co founder of Minorities in Shark Sciences and author of 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.800 the new autobiographical book Sharks Don't Sink, Jasmine Graham. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.479 Welcome, Hello, Thanks for having me. So. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:52.400 I really love how your book combines both science and 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.720 your life story. So like you weave together tales of 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.840 field research, amazing sharks, science and facts, and. 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.040 Your own experience, your life story. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.440 So for this interview, I definitely want to talk about 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:08.400 both things. 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.360 So first of all, I. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.560 Mean, I think I and probably all of my listeners 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.880 love sharks, so there's no need to, you know, try 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:23.399 to justify why one would love sharks. But what did 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.800 draw you to sharks as a focus of research. 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.720 Well, I always was interested in the ocean. 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.520 I grew up fishing with my dad and so the 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.080 ocean was always a big part of my life. And 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.920 then I found out in high school you could get 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.560 paid to study fish, and I was like, that sounds 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.720 like the coolest job ever. I guess I'll do that, 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.200 And so I went to college for marine biology. And 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.160 I tried a lot of different things while I was 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.800 in college, but what stuck was sharks. And how I 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:00.160 first got introduced to sharks was a total accident. That's 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.400 what I call a scientific meat cute, where I had 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:08.240 this moment where I was walking down the hallway and 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.240 turned a corner and literally ran into a professor. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.240 I thought, you're going to study sharks. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:15.600 So you ran into a shark. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:18.920 In a shark in a hallway, and not shark. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:19.200 In a hallway. 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.800 The elevator doors are closing and a shark sticks a 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:23.920 fin in and lets you in. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.480 I guess in a way, I did run into a 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:32.000 shark because I ran into doctor Gavin Taylor. Papers went flying, 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.079 and then I started picking them up and I started 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.040 seeing all of these images of these really cool CT 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:43.200 scans of sharks, and I was like, whoa, these are awesome. 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.600 And I was asking him about it, and he was 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.000 telling me about his research and how he is studying 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:54.480 how sharks evolve and their adaptations and kind of just 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.120 talking about how old they are and all of these 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.360 cool things that he's learning about them, trying to build 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.880 this tree of life of sharks, and I was just 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.880 kind of like, that sounds super awesome. 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:06.800 I want to do that. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.960 And so he reached out to me a couple of 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.680 months later and said, I actually have some funding and 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.079 an opening in my lab for an undergraduate researcher, and 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.040 so then I started working with him with sharks, and 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:27.280 that's just where I stayed because honestly, sharks are super cool. 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.480 Just from seeing a couple of CT scans and listening 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.160 to this man geek out about sharks for five minutes 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.000 in the hallway, I fell in love. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.360 I do not blame you. Sharks are incredibly cool. Can 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:44.040 you talk a little bit about your favorite shark and 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:45.120 what it means to you. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:50.280 So my favorite shark is the bonnethead shark, and I 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.360 love them for several reasons. One because it's the first 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.120 shark species that I got to work with in a 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:01.400 scientific setting, so that was pretty cool. Two, they're just 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:06.640 super cute. There are multiple bonnet head pictures in the book. 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.480 Because I just need people to know how cute they are. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.680 They look like they're wearing little tiny hats. They're often 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:19.120 swimming around kind of in a very confused way, and 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:23.520 they're just adorable. And the third reason is they were 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:27.120 the first shark discovered to be omnivorous. 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:28.960 So they actually eat plants and animals. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.520 Actually, sea grass makes up forty to sixty percent of 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.920 their diet, and so I think it's really cool that 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.600 there's a shark out there that actually eats more plants. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.360 Than animals in some situations. 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.960 That is really cool. That sounds like they're the bears 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.200 of the sea. How big are bonnet sharks. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.920 They're very small. They're like they max out between three 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:57.680 and four feet. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.680 Oh, babies, they're small, the little baby guys. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.039 I of all the animals that I know that you 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.920 can't do this, but I do want to, like pick 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.479 up a shark in my arms and hold it like 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.320 a baby, because their faces to me, are so cute, 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.880 the little, the little just the little downturned mouths, the 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.280 big eyes. I have a I have a hard time 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.279 understanding why people don't find them cute. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:34.359 Honestly, Yeah, I mean thresher sharks. Their faces are so cute. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.120 They just look alarmed all the time. I know, they 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:38.159 just look frightened. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.279 I want to carry one around in a baby born 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:46.000 if that wasn't, you know, incredibly harmful to the shark. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.719 But yeah, that's so interesting, And you have you done 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.159 research on bonnet sharks. 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:55.360 I have. Yeah. 0:05:55.400 --> 0:06:00.000 So for my undergraduate research, I focused on a small 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.760 all part of the tree of Life project for sharks 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.960 and rays, and I focus specifically on the hammerhead family. 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.400 So I was looking at all ten speechies of hammerheads, 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:12.480 which a lot of people don't know that there are 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.640 ten species of hammerheads. Sometimes people think that hammerheads are 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:17.480 just like one species. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:22.240 One guy, one shark that's got like an actual hammer. 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:25.600 Yeah. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:30.560 So I studied all of them, bonnettheads included. And then 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:36.080 I got to co advise a master student who studied 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.080 bonnetead sharks and their head shapes, and I talk about 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.599 that a lot in the book. And the head shapes 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.360 are super cool for bonnet heeads because they exhibit what's 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:51.239 called sexual dimorphism, which is where males and females look different. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.600 And that's super cool that their heads look different if 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:01.000 you're a male versus a female bonnetead shark because that's 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.960 super weird. What a weird thing that is different between 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:06.400 males and females, But it. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.320 Is imagine if for for humans, if women were going 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:12.920 around with triangle heads and men were going around with 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.040 square heads. I don't know, we'd probably find whole new 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.760 ways to make society sexist based on like, well, you know, 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.560 with the triangle head, you know, obviously you can't be president. 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:27.640 Yeah. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.200 One thing also in the book that is really interesting, 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.760 but also you know, kind of I think painful, is 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:38.840 like discussing the challenges that you face in marine biology, 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.360 particularly as a black woman. Can you talk a little 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.600 bit about how you approached these challenges and what like 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.800 what they were, what you face, which you know, really 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.920 likely the only challenges in research should be you know, hey, 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.760 are my you know, notes getting wet because I'm on 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.920 a boat. But no, there's a lot of actual social 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:03.080 challenges that you faced. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:08.520 Yeah. Science is interesting because people feel like science should 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.960 be a place where we don't have human problems, because 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.600 people see scientists as these like objective beings that don't 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.280 have any bias and all of these things. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:24.679 But that's not true. Scientists are people just like anyone else, 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:30.840 and so therefore science has some society issues creep into it, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.840 and so a lot of those issues come up in 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:40.840 science settings when it's people interacting with other people. And 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.800 so that is something that I've found to be a challenge, 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.480 mostly in the sense of people look at me and 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.520 they don't expect me to be a scientist, and so 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:57.320 therefore there's this, oh, you need to prove yourself because 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.480 we don't feel like you belong here because you don't 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.960 look like scientists. I've actually had a lot of people 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.600 say that, like, oh, you know, it looks like a scientist, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.199 and then I asked the question, what does a scientist 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:11.240 look like, right, and then they get very uncomfortable they 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.480 should yeah, yes, that is. 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:16.520 My bias creeping out. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.880 And so I think that that is, in and of itself, 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.240 something where you have this sort of doubt when you 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.040 come into a room, or when you submit a paper, 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:33.280 or when you're submitting a grant proposal, that people have 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.840 these preconceived notions about what a scientist is and what 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.520 a scientist looks like, and what they do and don't do. 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:46.040 And so that's a challenge. And then there's more egregious things, 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.800 of course, because people sometimes are terrible, But a lot 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.480 of it is people that the heart I would say 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.280 the hardest thing is people that believe that they don't 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:04.360 have bias, and then they walk around like I had 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.320 a talking about yeah, that's why I said that, like 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.079 it I would have assumed that anybody was a custodian. 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:17.040 I'm like, would you know, or like they'll be like, oh, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:22.080 it's just because you're young, is it. Yeah, And so 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.920 that's that's the harder thing to deal with because whenever 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:29.640 you have somebody that's like blatantly and openly causic issues, 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.160 then it's a little easier to pinpoint. But there's often 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.000 a lot of times where people, you know, say well, 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.319 I don't think they meant it like that, or maybe 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.480 you took it the wrong way or that other stuff 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.520 where it's sort of like, I don't believe that this 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.240 is actually a thing that is happening a lot. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.800 I don't believe that bias played into this. 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.440 It's like a lot of defensiveness. So not only is 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.320 it awkward or uncomfortable because it's like, hey, you just 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.320 kind of assume something of aut me and that it's 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.160 also like, oh, now you have to deal with someone 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.880 being really defensive like oh no, no, no, I'm not sexist, 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:09.080 I'm not racist, you know. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.600 Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's a big thing. And then 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:18.679 there's also other issues with marine science in particular because 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.080 a lot of times you are on boats or in 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.560 very remote locations and you're stuck with the same people 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:26.920 for a long amount of time. 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.199 And it's not like. 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.440 A normal nine to five where you're like, cool, I 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.480 only have to deal with this for eight hours and 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.040 then I walk away. I mean, sometimes it's weeks of 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.080 you have to spend time with these people. 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:40.920 For a really long time. 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.240 There's all sorts of weird power dynamics at play where 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:49.400 sometimes people don't feel comfortable speaking out about things, especially 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.600 things like sexual harassment and stuff like that. Especially if 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.120 you are a PSI in a position of less power 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.240 and you would have to challenge. 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.319 Some body that has more power than you. It creates 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.040 really awkward situations. 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.160 Yeah, I mean, I imagine that is especially profound on 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.720 a boat. Like in academia, it's it's a huge problem. 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.240 And then you take all of these social complexities and 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.640 problems of academia and then you put it on like 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.200 a platform that is floating in the middle of the 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.160 ocean that seems really challenging. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:25.680 Yeah, for sure. 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.720 Do you have any advice that you would give young 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.559 people who are really interested in marine biology but they 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.200 are concerned about these things, like you know, maybe they're 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.360 a minority, maybe they are worried that the field is 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.720 going to be really really challenging because of these assumptions 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.080 that like people make about what a scientist should be. 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:51.120 Yeah. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.280 I mean what I've always done is I always remind 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:01.200 myself that there are people who want help, and there 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.679 are people who can be really good allies and friends 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.760 in the field, And if you surround yourself with those people, 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.959 then you have this sort of buffer where hopefully you 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.000 don't have to be the one to put yourself at 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.960 risk to say something to somebody that has more power 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.800 than you or something like that, because you have other 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.040 people in your corner that will speak out on your behalf. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.600 And those people do exist, and they are very prominent, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.720 and they usually make themselves very clear. They're very easy 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:39.840 to spot speacon of light where you're like, ah, yes, 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.480 you seem awesome, let's hang out. I want you in 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.280 my circle, and like people that just hype you up 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.920 because whenever you are constantly getting these like little tiny 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.760 knock downs. It's really helpful to have someone that's constantly 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.600 boosting you up so that you know you can keep 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.680 your spirits high, keep your confidence up. I think the 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.760 best way to fight imposter syndrome is to have people 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.400 constantly tell you that you belong here and you're doing 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.839 a great job. And having hype people having a height 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:17.320 spore really helpful. The other thing I think is whenever 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:23.960 people whatever, people maliciously try to make other people seem small, 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.120 the best response is to be bigger and take up 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:33.080 more space because they're trying to nudge you out, and 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.680 so the best defense is offense to just be bigger, 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:43.400 be bolder, like, don't shrink away. I think sometimes people 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.960 when they come into a space and they feel like 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.640 they aren't being valued or they're worried about being the 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.720 only person like them and having this sort of Oh, 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.840 I have to keep proving myself over and over and 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:56.440 over again. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:14:59.120 Whenever I get in. 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.000 Those situations, just walk in with all of the authority 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.320 in the world, even if I even if I'm in 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:05.960 my head kind of. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.720 Like ah, I feel like I am an impostor. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.360 Facing I'm like, yeah, I'm Jasmine Graham and I'm a 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.840 shark site because I'm an expert in this field and 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.040 I know what I'm talking about and everything is great. 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.320 And then if anyone challenges that, I can say, well, 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:28.160 you're wrong, yeah, because I do belong here. And even 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.920 if you just say it, you say it enough, other 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.680 people tell you enough, and then you feel it. You 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.400 feel like you can walk into situations with your head 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.200 held high and take up space. And the most important 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.240 thing is to not let people like that win. And 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.240 you let them win whenever you get small. So you 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.680 gotta stand your stand your ground. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.080 I love. That's really really good advice. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.840 I mean, that's that's good advice, and probably everywhere in 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:05.160 I've not just in science, but yeah, I mean I do. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.120 I can't help but always try to relate sort of 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.280 be like human psychology back to back to animals, because 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.440 that's what this show is. I don't necessarily know enough 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.920 about shark behavior to say that sharks would also do this, 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.280 but like really like when they are being threatened or 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.320 being intimidated, really trying to kind of like say like no, no, no, 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.360 I am I am coming. I am a shark, and 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.640 I'm tough and I'm cool and like, don't bother me, 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.160 even though inside sharks might actually be quite scared. 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.720 Yeah, I mean a lot of animals do this. Some 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:41.520 animals do this quite literally. I mean porcupines put up 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:47.680 their spines, puffer fish puff up. There's like snakes swelled, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.960 like there's this natural like something is threatening me. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:52.360 Be bigger. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.760 It's sort of a natural instinct of animals like well, 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.560 if I'm bigger, then maybe they'll think to us about 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.440 messing with me. And so having that attitude of. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.360 People love to punch down, you know. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.240 Like you know, people are always going after people that 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.640 they feel like they can push around, and as soon 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:21.280 as you stand your grounds, they're like, oh, this is not. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.199 A person to be trifled with. Let me go away. 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:27.760 And that's what happens in the animal kingdom. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:33.040 Is no animal wants to hunt prey that's going to 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:33.840 fight back. 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.800 Yeah, Like that is not what they want to do. 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.919 If they have a choice between like a sleeping rat 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.359 and a king cobra, they're going to go for the rat. 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.240 I'm like, I don't want to find a king cobra. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:49.760 I might lose. 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:56.240 So yeah, just being big and helping people see like oh, 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.920 you think you're about to punch down, but really you're 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:00.560 punching up yea, And they're like. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.680 Ah, yeah, maybe think I want to do that? Yeah yeah, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:05.600 maybe maybe. 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.159 Maybe think twice about eating that pufferfish that now is 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:15.719 a big spiky balloon. You mentioned earlier that the bonnehead 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.680 sharks like swim around like they don't know where they're 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:19.480 they're going. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.960 Can you expand on that? 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.560 Why Why do they swim around in sort of this 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:25.280 awkward way. 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.679 That's a really good question. I don't know. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.440 Some sharks are just There are some sharks that are 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:39.600 really like, I'm an excellent navigator, I know where I'm going, 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:44.480 I have, you know, all of these skills to avoid 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.640 being eaten or to hunt or whatever. And then there's 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:54.280 bonneheads who, for some reason like they just were like, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.920 I don't know, I guess I'm just gonna go over here, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.880 and then I'm gonna go over here, and just kind 0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:02.920 of I think that's because of how they live their lives. 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.840 They're kind of just swimming through seagrass looking for a 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:07.800 little crabs and crustations. 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:09.120 They're not really. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.959 Going after like tuna or something like that, right, they 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.160 don't need to be like out smarting prey. 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:19.439 Necessarily, they're kind of just like yum yum yumps. 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:20.679 They're enjoying. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.880 So they just live this like blisful life where they're 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.000 just like I'm just swimming through the sea grass, I'm 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.560 gonna have a little salad and I'm gonna have a 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.879 little shrimp, and I'm just gonna like move on with 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.720 my life, whereas I feel like other sharks are either 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:42.000 like getting hunted down my other sharks a lot, or 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.840 they are like having to you know, get prey that 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.080 is fast or sneaky or camouflaged and you know. 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:54.200 All of these things. I think that bonnet heads they just. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.399 Tend to have very easy lives and so they're like 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.639 natural instincts, maybe not as keen as some other sharks 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.320 that are out there in like the rough and tumble 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.320 of the deep sea where everything is trying to kill you. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.600 Bonnet Heads are just kind of like, I don't know, 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.879 you've tagged me, and I don't know. I feel like 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.159 I didn't quite like that, But what if I just 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:21.840 swam right back into your head? 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.400 Because that and then I want to go that way. 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.560 I know that the last time I went that way, 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.200 I was in a net, right, and then you let 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:31.520 me go. 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:33.480 But maybe this time I think. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.280 I'm just gonna swim back that way. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.199 Let's try it to get yeah this time, maybe this 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.880 time there will be a nice snack rather than being 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:41.400 in a net. 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.960 Oh a net again. Well, third time's the charm. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:46.760 Yeah, exactly. 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.719 That's really cute. I'm really being sold on these bonnet 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.439 heead sharks. That's I love that they're just out there 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:59.840 scrounging around having girl dinner. I when I am left, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.040 I owned devices, Like, if there's not another human being 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:07.600 to enforce me to have a normal human dinner, I 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.679 will do bon ahead sharks stuff. I'll just be like, 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.240 I don't know, maybe some pasta. Are these you know, 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.320 potato chips still good? They're like under the counter. I 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.119 don't know, just a little this, little that. But it 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.480 is really fascinating that they are. Are they the only 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.000 shark species we know of that is omnivorous or are 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:34.960 they just more more omnivorous than other sharks. 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:40.000 So recently, scientists figured out that whale sharks are actually 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.000 digesting a lot of the algae that they suck in 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.560 with their mouths while they're getting planked and stuff. So 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.120 whale sharks are also omnivorous, but whale sharks are little 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:51.800 different because they're passive feeders. 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.159 So it's kind of just like, yeah, you got some 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:55.080 plants in your. 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.720 Mouth by accident, big whoop. 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.960 You figured out a way to die. Just it good 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.600 for you, Yeah, Whereas I mean you open up like 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.520 a bonnetthead shark stomach and it's just. 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.240 Like grass grass. 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.119 Yeah, that's so interesting. 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.200 Yeah, I mean, and so they they're all it's almost 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:22.200 as if they are they could say, if they continued 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:26.360 on for millions of years, like they could completely turn. 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:29.280 To be herbivores. 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:35.359 Yeah, I mean, so that's something that's really interesting about 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.080 bonnetheads and one of the reasons why we're really interested 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.119 in this idea of them being omnivorous and like a 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:46.920 huge percentage of their diet being sea grass, because there's 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:47.920 two sides. 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.560 To this, like one, do they need. 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:55.360 Sea grass to like have a balanced diet, like are 0:22:55.400 --> 0:23:00.159 they going to perform or if they don't eat a 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:03.320 lot of sea grass. And that's an important question because 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:07.960 our seagrass beds are going away, and so if we 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.840 lose sea grass, is that detrimental to the bonnet heads 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:14.679 or are they kind of just like filling in with 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.479 sea grass? And then on the other side of that, well, 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:25.080 if there's a shortage of meat options, like let's say 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:29.639 the like entire shrimp population goes away, or like we 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.680 have a huge decline of the fish, Like, will they 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:37.040 just be like, Okay, I guess I'll just eat vegetables. 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:39.639 It's like, do you need both of those right to 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:44.520 be healthy? Or like if you lost one, could you 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.000