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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,

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Speaker 1: and today on this show, we are continuing hout Sharks

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Speaker 1: Summer with a special guest who is a shark biologist

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Speaker 1: and expert, and we are going to learn a lot

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Speaker 1: about sharks about life. So welcome to the show. The

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Speaker 1: co founder of Minorities in Shark Sciences and author of

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Speaker 1: the new autobiographical book Sharks Don't Sink, Jasmine Graham.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Hello, Thanks for having me. So.

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Speaker 1: I really love how your book combines both science and

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Speaker 1: your life story. So like you weave together tales of

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Speaker 1: field research, amazing sharks, science and facts, and.

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Speaker 3: Your own experience, your life story.

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Speaker 1: So for this interview, I definitely want to talk about

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Speaker 1: both things.

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Speaker 3: So first of all, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, I think I and probably all of my listeners

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Speaker 1: love sharks, so there's no need to, you know, try

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Speaker 1: to justify why one would love sharks. But what did

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Speaker 1: draw you to sharks as a focus of research.

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Speaker 2: Well, I always was interested in the ocean.

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Speaker 4: I grew up fishing with my dad and so the

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Speaker 4: ocean was always a big part of my life. And

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Speaker 4: then I found out in high school you could get

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Speaker 4: paid to study fish, and I was like, that sounds

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Speaker 4: like the coolest job ever. I guess I'll do that,

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Speaker 4: And so I went to college for marine biology. And

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Speaker 4: I tried a lot of different things while I was

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Speaker 4: in college, but what stuck was sharks. And how I

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Speaker 4: first got introduced to sharks was a total accident. That's

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Speaker 4: what I call a scientific meat cute, where I had

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Speaker 4: this moment where I was walking down the hallway and

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Speaker 4: turned a corner and literally ran into a professor.

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Speaker 2: I thought, you're going to study sharks.

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Speaker 3: So you ran into a shark.

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Speaker 2: In a shark in a hallway, and not shark.

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Speaker 3: In a hallway.

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Speaker 1: The elevator doors are closing and a shark sticks a

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Speaker 1: fin in and lets you in.

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Speaker 4: I guess in a way, I did run into a

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Speaker 4: shark because I ran into doctor Gavin Taylor. Papers went flying,

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Speaker 4: and then I started picking them up and I started

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Speaker 4: seeing all of these images of these really cool CT

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Speaker 4: scans of sharks, and I was like, whoa, these are awesome.

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Speaker 4: And I was asking him about it, and he was

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Speaker 4: telling me about his research and how he is studying

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Speaker 4: how sharks evolve and their adaptations and kind of just

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Speaker 4: talking about how old they are and all of these

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Speaker 4: cool things that he's learning about them, trying to build

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Speaker 4: this tree of life of sharks, and I was just

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Speaker 4: kind of like, that sounds super awesome.

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Speaker 2: I want to do that.

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Speaker 4: And so he reached out to me a couple of

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Speaker 4: months later and said, I actually have some funding and

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Speaker 4: an opening in my lab for an undergraduate researcher, and

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Speaker 4: so then I started working with him with sharks, and

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Speaker 4: that's just where I stayed because honestly, sharks are super cool.

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Speaker 4: Just from seeing a couple of CT scans and listening

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Speaker 4: to this man geek out about sharks for five minutes

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Speaker 4: in the hallway, I fell in love.

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Speaker 1: I do not blame you. Sharks are incredibly cool. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about your favorite shark and

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Speaker 1: what it means to you.

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Speaker 4: So my favorite shark is the bonnethead shark, and I

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Speaker 4: love them for several reasons. One because it's the first

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Speaker 4: shark species that I got to work with in a

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Speaker 4: scientific setting, so that was pretty cool. Two, they're just

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Speaker 4: super cute. There are multiple bonnet head pictures in the book.

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Speaker 4: Because I just need people to know how cute they are.

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Speaker 4: They look like they're wearing little tiny hats. They're often

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Speaker 4: swimming around kind of in a very confused way, and

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Speaker 4: they're just adorable. And the third reason is they were

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Speaker 4: the first shark discovered to be omnivorous.

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Speaker 2: So they actually eat plants and animals.

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Speaker 4: Actually, sea grass makes up forty to sixty percent of

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Speaker 4: their diet, and so I think it's really cool that

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Speaker 4: there's a shark out there that actually eats more plants.

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Speaker 2: Than animals in some situations.

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Speaker 1: That is really cool. That sounds like they're the bears

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Speaker 1: of the sea. How big are bonnet sharks.

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Speaker 2: They're very small. They're like they max out between three

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Speaker 2: and four feet.

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Speaker 4: Oh, babies, they're small, the little baby guys.

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Speaker 1: I of all the animals that I know that you

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Speaker 1: can't do this, but I do want to, like pick

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Speaker 1: up a shark in my arms and hold it like

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Speaker 1: a baby, because their faces to me, are so cute,

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Speaker 1: the little, the little just the little downturned mouths, the

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Speaker 1: big eyes. I have a I have a hard time

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Speaker 1: understanding why people don't find them cute.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, Yeah, I mean thresher sharks. Their faces are so cute.

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Speaker 4: They just look alarmed all the time. I know, they

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Speaker 4: just look frightened.

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Speaker 1: I want to carry one around in a baby born

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Speaker 1: if that wasn't, you know, incredibly harmful to the shark.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's so interesting, And you have you done

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Speaker 1: research on bonnet sharks.

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Speaker 2: I have. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So for my undergraduate research, I focused on a small

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Speaker 4: all part of the tree of Life project for sharks

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Speaker 4: and rays, and I focus specifically on the hammerhead family.

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Speaker 4: So I was looking at all ten speechies of hammerheads,

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Speaker 4: which a lot of people don't know that there are

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Speaker 4: ten species of hammerheads. Sometimes people think that hammerheads are

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Speaker 4: just like one species.

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Speaker 1: One guy, one shark that's got like an actual hammer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I studied all of them, bonnettheads included. And then

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Speaker 4: I got to co advise a master student who studied

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Speaker 4: bonnetead sharks and their head shapes, and I talk about

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Speaker 4: that a lot in the book. And the head shapes

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Speaker 4: are super cool for bonnet heeads because they exhibit what's

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Speaker 4: called sexual dimorphism, which is where males and females look different.

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Speaker 4: And that's super cool that their heads look different if

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Speaker 4: you're a male versus a female bonnetead shark because that's

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Speaker 4: super weird. What a weird thing that is different between

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Speaker 4: males and females, But it.

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Speaker 1: Is imagine if for for humans, if women were going

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Speaker 1: around with triangle heads and men were going around with

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Speaker 1: square heads. I don't know, we'd probably find whole new

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Speaker 1: ways to make society sexist based on like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the triangle head, you know, obviously you can't be president.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One thing also in the book that is really interesting,

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Speaker 1: but also you know, kind of I think painful, is

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Speaker 1: like discussing the challenges that you face in marine biology,

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Speaker 1: particularly as a black woman. Can you talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how you approached these challenges and what like

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Speaker 1: what they were, what you face, which you know, really

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Speaker 1: likely the only challenges in research should be you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: are my you know, notes getting wet because I'm on

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Speaker 1: a boat. But no, there's a lot of actual social

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Speaker 1: challenges that you faced.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Science is interesting because people feel like science should

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Speaker 2: be a place where we don't have human problems, because

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Speaker 2: people see scientists as these like objective beings that don't

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Speaker 2: have any bias and all of these things.

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Speaker 4: But that's not true. Scientists are people just like anyone else,

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Speaker 4: and so therefore science has some society issues creep into it,

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Speaker 4: and so a lot of those issues come up in

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Speaker 4: science settings when it's people interacting with other people. And

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Speaker 4: so that is something that I've found to be a challenge,

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Speaker 4: mostly in the sense of people look at me and

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Speaker 4: they don't expect me to be a scientist, and so

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Speaker 4: therefore there's this, oh, you need to prove yourself because

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Speaker 4: we don't feel like you belong here because you don't

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Speaker 4: look like scientists. I've actually had a lot of people

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Speaker 4: say that, like, oh, you know, it looks like a scientist,

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Speaker 4: and then I asked the question, what does a scientist

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Speaker 4: look like, right, and then they get very uncomfortable they

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Speaker 4: should yeah, yes, that is.

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Speaker 2: My bias creeping out.

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Speaker 4: And so I think that that is, in and of itself,

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Speaker 4: something where you have this sort of doubt when you

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Speaker 4: come into a room, or when you submit a paper,

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Speaker 4: or when you're submitting a grant proposal, that people have

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Speaker 4: these preconceived notions about what a scientist is and what

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Speaker 4: a scientist looks like, and what they do and don't do.

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Speaker 4: And so that's a challenge. And then there's more egregious things,

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Speaker 4: of course, because people sometimes are terrible, But a lot

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Speaker 4: of it is people that the heart I would say

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Speaker 4: the hardest thing is people that believe that they don't

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Speaker 4: have bias, and then they walk around like I had

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Speaker 4: a talking about yeah, that's why I said that, like

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Speaker 4: it I would have assumed that anybody was a custodian.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, would you know, or like they'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 4: it's just because you're young, is it. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 4: that's that's the harder thing to deal with because whenever

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Speaker 4: you have somebody that's like blatantly and openly causic issues,

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Speaker 4: then it's a little easier to pinpoint. But there's often

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Speaker 4: a lot of times where people, you know, say well,

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Speaker 4: I don't think they meant it like that, or maybe

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Speaker 4: you took it the wrong way or that other stuff

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Speaker 4: where it's sort of like, I don't believe that this

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Speaker 4: is actually a thing that is happening a lot.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe that bias played into this.

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Speaker 1: It's like a lot of defensiveness. So not only is

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Speaker 1: it awkward or uncomfortable because it's like, hey, you just

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Speaker 1: kind of assume something of aut me and that it's

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Speaker 1: also like, oh, now you have to deal with someone

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Speaker 1: being really defensive like oh no, no, no, I'm not sexist,

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Speaker 1: I'm not racist, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's a big thing. And then

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Speaker 4: there's also other issues with marine science in particular because

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Speaker 4: a lot of times you are on boats or in

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Speaker 4: very remote locations and you're stuck with the same people

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Speaker 4: for a long amount of time.

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Speaker 2: And it's not like.

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Speaker 4: A normal nine to five where you're like, cool, I

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Speaker 4: only have to deal with this for eight hours and

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Speaker 4: then I walk away. I mean, sometimes it's weeks of

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Speaker 4: you have to spend time with these people.

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Speaker 2: For a really long time.

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Speaker 4: There's all sorts of weird power dynamics at play where

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Speaker 4: sometimes people don't feel comfortable speaking out about things, especially

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Speaker 4: things like sexual harassment and stuff like that. Especially if

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Speaker 4: you are a PSI in a position of less power

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Speaker 4: and you would have to challenge.

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Speaker 2: Some body that has more power than you. It creates

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Speaker 2: really awkward situations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I imagine that is especially profound on

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Speaker 1: a boat. Like in academia, it's it's a huge problem.

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Speaker 1: And then you take all of these social complexities and

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Speaker 1: problems of academia and then you put it on like

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Speaker 1: a platform that is floating in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: ocean that seems really challenging.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any advice that you would give young

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Speaker 1: people who are really interested in marine biology but they

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Speaker 1: are concerned about these things, like you know, maybe they're

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Speaker 1: a minority, maybe they are worried that the field is

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Speaker 1: going to be really really challenging because of these assumptions

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Speaker 1: that like people make about what a scientist should be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean what I've always done is I always remind

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Speaker 4: myself that there are people who want help, and there

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Speaker 4: are people who can be really good allies and friends

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Speaker 4: in the field, And if you surround yourself with those people,

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Speaker 4: then you have this sort of buffer where hopefully you

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Speaker 4: don't have to be the one to put yourself at

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Speaker 4: risk to say something to somebody that has more power

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Speaker 4: than you or something like that, because you have other

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Speaker 4: people in your corner that will speak out on your behalf.

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Speaker 4: And those people do exist, and they are very prominent,

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Speaker 4: and they usually make themselves very clear. They're very easy

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Speaker 4: to spot speacon of light where you're like, ah, yes,

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Speaker 4: you seem awesome, let's hang out. I want you in

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Speaker 4: my circle, and like people that just hype you up

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Speaker 4: because whenever you are constantly getting these like little tiny

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Speaker 4: knock downs. It's really helpful to have someone that's constantly

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Speaker 4: boosting you up so that you know you can keep

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Speaker 4: your spirits high, keep your confidence up. I think the

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Speaker 4: best way to fight imposter syndrome is to have people

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Speaker 4: constantly tell you that you belong here and you're doing

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Speaker 4: a great job. And having hype people having a height

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Speaker 4: spore really helpful. The other thing I think is whenever

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Speaker 4: people whatever, people maliciously try to make other people seem small,

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Speaker 4: the best response is to be bigger and take up

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Speaker 4: more space because they're trying to nudge you out, and

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Speaker 4: so the best defense is offense to just be bigger,

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Speaker 4: be bolder, like, don't shrink away. I think sometimes people

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Speaker 4: when they come into a space and they feel like

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Speaker 4: they aren't being valued or they're worried about being the

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Speaker 4: only person like them and having this sort of Oh,

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Speaker 4: I have to keep proving myself over and over and

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Speaker 4: over again.

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Speaker 2: Whenever I get in.

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Speaker 4: Those situations, just walk in with all of the authority

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Speaker 4: in the world, even if I even if I'm in

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Speaker 4: my head kind of.

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Speaker 2: Like ah, I feel like I am an impostor.

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Speaker 4: Facing I'm like, yeah, I'm Jasmine Graham and I'm a

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Speaker 4: shark site because I'm an expert in this field and

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Speaker 4: I know what I'm talking about and everything is great.

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Speaker 4: And then if anyone challenges that, I can say, well,

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Speaker 4: you're wrong, yeah, because I do belong here. And even

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Speaker 4: if you just say it, you say it enough, other

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Speaker 4: people tell you enough, and then you feel it. You

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Speaker 4: feel like you can walk into situations with your head

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Speaker 4: held high and take up space. And the most important

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Speaker 4: thing is to not let people like that win. And

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Speaker 4: you let them win whenever you get small. So you

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Speaker 4: gotta stand your stand your ground.

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Speaker 3: I love. That's really really good advice.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's good advice, and probably everywhere in

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Speaker 1: I've not just in science, but yeah, I mean I do.

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Speaker 1: I can't help but always try to relate sort of

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Speaker 1: be like human psychology back to back to animals, because

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Speaker 1: that's what this show is. I don't necessarily know enough

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Speaker 1: about shark behavior to say that sharks would also do this,

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Speaker 1: but like really like when they are being threatened or

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Speaker 1: being intimidated, really trying to kind of like say like no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I am I am coming. I am a shark, and

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Speaker 1: I'm tough and I'm cool and like, don't bother me,

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Speaker 1: even though inside sharks might actually be quite scared.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean a lot of animals do this. Some

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Speaker 4: animals do this quite literally. I mean porcupines put up

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Speaker 4: their spines, puffer fish puff up. There's like snakes swelled,

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Speaker 4: like there's this natural like something is threatening me.

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Speaker 2: Be bigger.

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Speaker 4: It's sort of a natural instinct of animals like well,

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Speaker 4: if I'm bigger, then maybe they'll think to us about

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Speaker 4: messing with me. And so having that attitude of.

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Speaker 2: People love to punch down, you know.

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Speaker 4: Like you know, people are always going after people that

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Speaker 4: they feel like they can push around, and as soon

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Speaker 4: as you stand your grounds, they're like, oh, this is not.

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Speaker 2: A person to be trifled with. Let me go away.

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Speaker 2: And that's what happens in the animal kingdom.

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Speaker 4: Is no animal wants to hunt prey that's going to

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Speaker 4: fight back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that is not what they want to do.

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Speaker 4: If they have a choice between like a sleeping rat

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Speaker 4: and a king cobra, they're going to go for the rat.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't want to find a king cobra.

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Speaker 2: I might lose.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, just being big and helping people see like oh,

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Speaker 4: you think you're about to punch down, but really you're

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Speaker 4: punching up yea, And they're like.

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Speaker 3: Ah, yeah, maybe think I want to do that? Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: maybe maybe.

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Speaker 1: Maybe think twice about eating that pufferfish that now is

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Speaker 1: a big spiky balloon. You mentioned earlier that the bonnehead

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Speaker 1: sharks like swim around like they don't know where they're

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Speaker 1: they're going.

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Speaker 3: Can you expand on that?

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Speaker 1: Why Why do they swim around in sort of this

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Speaker 1: awkward way.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Some sharks are just There are some sharks that are

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Speaker 4: really like, I'm an excellent navigator, I know where I'm going,

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Speaker 4: I have, you know, all of these skills to avoid

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Speaker 4: being eaten or to hunt or whatever. And then there's

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Speaker 4: bonneheads who, for some reason like they just were like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I guess I'm just gonna go over here,

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Speaker 4: and then I'm gonna go over here, and just kind

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Speaker 4: of I think that's because of how they live their lives.

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Speaker 4: They're kind of just swimming through seagrass looking for a

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Speaker 4: little crabs and crustations.

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Speaker 2: They're not really.

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Speaker 4: Going after like tuna or something like that, right, they

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Speaker 4: don't need to be like out smarting prey.

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Speaker 2: Necessarily, they're kind of just like yum yum yumps.

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Speaker 3: They're enjoying.

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Speaker 4: So they just live this like blisful life where they're

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Speaker 4: just like I'm just swimming through the sea grass, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna have a little salad and I'm gonna have a

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Speaker 4: little shrimp, and I'm just gonna like move on with

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Speaker 4: my life, whereas I feel like other sharks are either

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Speaker 4: like getting hunted down my other sharks a lot, or

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Speaker 4: they are like having to you know, get prey that

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Speaker 4: is fast or sneaky or camouflaged and you know.

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Speaker 2: All of these things. I think that bonnet heads they just.

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Speaker 4: Tend to have very easy lives and so they're like

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Speaker 4: natural instincts, maybe not as keen as some other sharks

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Speaker 4: that are out there in like the rough and tumble

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Speaker 4: of the deep sea where everything is trying to kill you.

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Speaker 4: Bonnet Heads are just kind of like, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: you've tagged me, and I don't know. I feel like

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Speaker 4: I didn't quite like that, But what if I just

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Speaker 4: swam right back into your head?

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Speaker 2: Because that and then I want to go that way.

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Speaker 2: I know that the last time I went that way,

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Speaker 2: I was in a net, right, and then you let

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Speaker 2: me go.

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Speaker 3: But maybe this time I think.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna swim back that way.

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Speaker 1: Let's try it to get yeah this time, maybe this

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Speaker 1: time there will be a nice snack rather than being

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Speaker 1: in a net.

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Speaker 3: Oh a net again. Well, third time's the charm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's really cute. I'm really being sold on these bonnet

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Speaker 1: heead sharks. That's I love that they're just out there

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Speaker 1: scrounging around having girl dinner. I when I am left,

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Speaker 1: I owned devices, Like, if there's not another human being

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Speaker 1: to enforce me to have a normal human dinner, I

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Speaker 1: will do bon ahead sharks stuff. I'll just be like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe some pasta. Are these you know,

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Speaker 1: potato chips still good? They're like under the counter. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, just a little this, little that. But it

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Speaker 1: is really fascinating that they are. Are they the only

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Speaker 1: shark species we know of that is omnivorous or are

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Speaker 1: they just more more omnivorous than other sharks.

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Speaker 4: So recently, scientists figured out that whale sharks are actually

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Speaker 4: digesting a lot of the algae that they suck in

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Speaker 4: with their mouths while they're getting planked and stuff. So

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Speaker 4: whale sharks are also omnivorous, but whale sharks are little

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Speaker 4: different because they're passive feeders.

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Speaker 2: So it's kind of just like, yeah, you got some

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Speaker 2: plants in your.

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Speaker 3: Mouth by accident, big whoop.

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Speaker 4: You figured out a way to die. Just it good

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Speaker 4: for you, Yeah, Whereas I mean you open up like

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Speaker 4: a bonnetthead shark stomach and it's just.

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Speaker 2: Like grass grass.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and so they they're all it's almost

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Speaker 1: as if they are they could say, if they continued

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Speaker 1: on for millions of years, like they could completely turn.

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Speaker 3: To be herbivores.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so that's something that's really interesting about

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Speaker 4: bonnetheads and one of the reasons why we're really interested

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Speaker 4: in this idea of them being omnivorous and like a

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Speaker 4: huge percentage of their diet being sea grass, because there's

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Speaker 4: two sides.

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Speaker 2: To this, like one, do they need.

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Speaker 4: Sea grass to like have a balanced diet, like are

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Speaker 4: they going to perform or if they don't eat a

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Speaker 4: lot of sea grass. And that's an important question because

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Speaker 4: our seagrass beds are going away, and so if we

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Speaker 4: lose sea grass, is that detrimental to the bonnet heads

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Speaker 4: or are they kind of just like filling in with

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Speaker 4: sea grass? And then on the other side of that, well,

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Speaker 4: if there's a shortage of meat options, like let's say

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Speaker 4: the like entire shrimp population goes away, or like we

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Speaker 4: have a huge decline of the fish, Like, will they

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Speaker 4: just be like, Okay, I guess I'll just eat vegetables.

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Speaker 4: It's like, do you need both of those right to

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Speaker 4: be healthy? Or like if you lost one, could you

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Speaker 4: just totally just only eat the other thing? Like is

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Speaker 4: there a reason.

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Speaker 2: Why you're eating both?

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Speaker 4: Because you know, like people whenever we go like vegetarian

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Speaker 4: or vegan, like you have to be very specific about

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Speaker 4: what you eat because there's certain nutrients that you get

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Speaker 4: from meat, and if you aren't diligent about getting those

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Speaker 4: in the specific other foods that you eat, then bad

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Speaker 4: things can happen. Is it the same for bonnettheads? Or

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Speaker 4: could bonnettheads just totally just survive off of seagrass without

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Speaker 4: any other nutritional output.

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Speaker 2: Or vice versa.

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Speaker 1: Are they obligate surf and turf eaters or is this

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Speaker 1: by choice?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? That is exactly that.

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Speaker 1: Is really fascinating. I'm always interested in like these evolutionary

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Speaker 1: histories of animals that like they started out maybe as herbivores,

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Speaker 1: then they became carnivores, but then they went back to

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Speaker 1: being herbivores. Like panda bears are really interesting, right, like

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Speaker 1: they maybe not entirely carnivores, but at least heavily carnivores

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Speaker 1: with some omnivorous traits. And then they started to completely

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Speaker 1: specialize in bamboo, and now that's it. That's that's it

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Speaker 1: for them. It's got to be bamboo or nothing, ride

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Speaker 1: or die with that bamboo for better or worse.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which is which is a evolutionary mistake on their

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Speaker 4: Sometimes you adapt and then you're like I've adapted in

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Speaker 4: the direction.

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Speaker 1: Like investing in just one stock, like hey, you know

429
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Speaker 1: what this isthereum coin seems really good.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to invest in all of it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's but that's the thing, right,

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Speaker 1: Like evolution doesn't have foresight. It's not like, well maybe

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't like invest completely in bamboo. If there's a

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Speaker 1: ton of bamboo, if there's a ton of seagrass, it's

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Speaker 1: just like great, this will be like this forever because

436
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Speaker 1: like you know, there's no it's yes, so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting.

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Speaker 4: And like I talk about that in the book, is that,

439
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 4: like a lot of times people have this like view

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Speaker 4: of evolution being very linear. We have that like stereotypical

441
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 4: image of like a monkey, and then it transforms into

442
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 4: like a man in a suit, and it's like, that's

443
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 4: not how that works. Such straight line evolution is kind

444
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 4: of just like roll the dice. Yeah, what works in

445
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 4: this moment? All right, sounds good.

446
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

447
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 4: And something that's really interesting about hammerheads is, you know,

448
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,239
Speaker 4: the first thing that people always ask me is like

449
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 4: what do hammerheads use their heads for?

450
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: And then you.

451
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 4: Know, I say, there's a lot of theories, and then

452
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 4: I tell them the theories.

453
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: They can turn.

454
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 4: Better, their eyes are on the side, so they have

455
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 4: near three sixty vision, It spreads out their sensory organs

456
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 4: that sense electrical charge. They can use it to pin

457
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 4: down sting rays, all of these things. And then I

458
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 4: always end it with or it's just as likely that

459
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: this is a random mutation.

460
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: That they've been trying to get rid of ever since.

461
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 4: Because there are two conflicting hypotheses right now on the phylogeny,

462
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: which is like how things are related. That says like,

463
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 4: actually the most ancestral, the one that's closest to the

464
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 4: most ancestral what was the ancestor of the hammerhead sharks

465
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 4: is the like wing head shark that has like the

466
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 4: widest head that's like three fourths as long as its body,

467
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 4: and then the ones that are more close in evolutionary

468
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 4: history to now, they came about with small heads. And

469
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 4: it's like, hmm, our hammerheads actually benefiting from his head

470
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 4: or are they? Like, I mean, I didn't die from

471
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 4: having this giant head, so I guess it's fine. Yeah,

472
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 4: which sometimes things happen because they didn't die exactly necessarily helpful.

473
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 4: It's just they didn't die and things still wanted to reproduce.

474
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 3: With them, right, Yeah, did you die? Yes?

475
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: No?

476
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: And did you have offscreen? Yes? No, hooray you win

477
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: for now. Yeah.

478
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: This is really interesting because it's like maybe just like

479
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: great great, great great great great great Amma was like

480
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: really horny for big heads, and now you're stuck with

481
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: a big head forever.

482
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 4: Yeah that's yeah, It's just it's super funny, like evolution

483
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 4: is so weird like that, and then it'll be like, oh,

484
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 4: this wasn't beneficial until it was, right, and then ha

485
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 4: ha ha, you didn't want to mate with all of

486
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 4: these like weirdo big headed sharks, and then something happened

487
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 4: and suddenly having a big head is an advantage and

488
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 4: don't you feel silly?

489
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love Like there's that the idea that

490
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: maybe the uh you know, kid, I'm trying to remember

491
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: the exact name. It's this, there's a deer that had

492
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: like the massive, massive antlers.

493
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 3: The Irish elk. There we go.

494
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm I totally didn't just google that, by the way,

495
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: the Irish elk, And like some of the theories of

496
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: like why it just like went extinct is just like, well,

497
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: forrest kind of changed and they couldn't get in them.

498
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: And that's it's just so funny to.

499
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: Me, right where it's like, yeah, I have these huge

500
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: antlers and all the ladies love my huge antlers, and

501
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: then just trying to get into the new sort of

502
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: more dense forest just like bonk bonk bonk, I can't

503
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: get in.

504
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

505
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 4: Or like in the shark world, we have the megalodon,

506
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 4: which everyone is always like, ah, the Megalodon, so cool,

507
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 4: such a great shark. It was giant and bigger is

508
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: not necessarily better because it was great. They were big.

509
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 4: They were like, ha ha ha, I'm eating all the whales.

510
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: This is awesome. And all the whales were like, oh no,

511
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: there's a big, scary predator. I'm gonna be really fast

512
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 4: and be able to swim fast and be small and

513
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 4: be able to swim fast, and like that's my strategy.

514
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to dodge them. And then Meglaedon was like.

515
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 4: All right, you're kind of fast, so you're hard to hunt.

516
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 4: But you know this is fine. We're chilling, we're vibing.

517
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 4: And then great hammerhead sharks are not great hammerheads. Great

518
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 4: white sharks came to exist and then they're like white

519
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 4: sharks are like, ha ha, I am smaller than you

520
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 4: and therefore faster and I can I can catch more

521
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 4: whales than you.

522
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: Haha. You thought that you were so.

523
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 4: Big and scary, but actually you're slow and I'm fast,

524
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 4: so mahhahaha.

525
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: And then the Megaladon.

526
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: Was like, oh no, yeah, now.

527
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 4: I have competition and I can't compete because I'm too

528
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 4: fast and I can't evolve to be small fast enough.

529
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: Oh no, and then death.

530
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 4: And then on the other side of that, the whales

531
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 4: are like, ha, no, we were so small and so

532
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: fast and that means nothing now because white sharks are

533
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 4: even faster. And then they're like, I don't know.

534
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: What do we do?

535
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 4: And then there's like the one like group of whales

536
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 4: that was like a little fat and slow and they

537
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 4: were just getting munched on by the megalodon and everybody.

538
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: Was like ha ha, you suck. And then suddenly the

539
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: great white sharks were like, ah, then I want to

540
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: eat you because I can't fix you in my mouth.

541
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, too big, big problem.

542
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 4: And then they're like, haha, joke's on you, all of

543
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: you small ones.

544
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: We will rise now. And now whales are like giant.

545
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: Yes, uh yeah, I do love.

546
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: I love like also just the image of the great

547
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: white shark like you know, just little, not to us,

548
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: little but compared to the megalodon, just like persistently yoink

549
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: grabbing little you know fish or whales like away from

550
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: the megalodon.

551
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, it is, it is.

552
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: It's always really interesting how Yeah, evolution is a wild

553
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: circuitous ride. It is not like yes, I have now

554
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: evolved better teeth and everyone else has better teeth. It's like, no,

555
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to like that one weird shark that has

556
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: the the it had the weird like almost saw blade

557
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: mouth at hiliocaprion.

558
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

559
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just like, well, that was kind of

560
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: a mistake that didn't work very well, but it.

561
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: Just as likely could have worked amazingly.

562
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: Yes, it worked at the time. It was it seemed

563
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: like a good idea at the time. Uh, the the

564
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: offspring that had that mutation, they survived, they made it

565
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: work until they didn't. Now we don't have cool buzz

566
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: buzz saw sharks anymore.

567
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

568
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 4: But something that's really cool about sharks and something that

569
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: I find really fascinating about them is even though you

570
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 4: know they're evolving and adapting, their basic body structure stays

571
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 4: pretty conserved throughout you know, this four hundred and fifty

572
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 4: million years they've been on this planet. There's like, you know,

573
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 4: the Carsonization where everything's becoming a crab and then sharks

574
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 4: are just like but also, I'm just going to be

575
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 4: a shark. Yeah, it's working.

576
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: Everyone's everyone's over there being like, have you heard about

577
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: this new thing called crab? And sharks are like not interested.

578
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: It's I'm happy with myself. Yeah, speaking of interesting sort

579
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: of shark shapes or like the consistent shark shape. Can

580
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about your research on sawfish,

581
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: because they are another one of those that it's like, huh,

582
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: why they got that saw in the front of them,

583
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: but then the rest of them is just like normal shark.

584
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

585
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 4: I so obviously you can tell that I have a

586
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 4: thing for sharks and rays with weird faces. Yes, I

587
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 4: just I just love it. If you have a weird head,

588
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 4: I want to study you. I don't understand why you

589
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 4: have that.

590
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: It's someone for everyone.

591
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 4: Sawfish are really cool because I mean they have have

592
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 4: this long saw, which the scientific term is a rostrum,

593
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 4: and they just whack things with it, and like that's

594
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 4: the strategy, just like fruit ninja. Yeah, just go into

595
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 4: a school of fish and just slice and dice, and

596
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 4: it's a really cool strategy. And then it also secondarily,

597
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 4: they have all of these ampulae of Lorenzini, which are

598
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 4: those sensory organs that sent electricity that I was talking

599
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 4: about before, and so it's like a it's like a

600
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 4: fish detector. So they got this long nose and they

601
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 4: can just like.

602
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: Like are distributed along that that long saw. So it's

603
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: like it's like a metal detector, but for electrical signals.

604
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then like they sensed it and then they

605
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 4: just slip slash slash.

606
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: Cool and I mean it's cool. It's a cool strategy.

607
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 4: And they're rays, so they are like not true sharks,

608
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 4: but they do have shark like body shape, but they

609
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 4: still have wings like array, and their gill slits are

610
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 4: still on the bottom.

611
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: They still spend a lot of time like laying on the.

612
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 4: Bottom and they just kind of lay on the bottom

613
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 4: and then whenever they feel like eating, they just slice

614
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 4: the dice and then they go back to laying. And honestly,

615
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 4: it's an inspirational way to live your life.

616
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: Lay eat, lay eat.

617
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 4: I track the movements of these animals for my graduate research,

618
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 4: and literally we would just have these receivers where we

619
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 4: can detect if one of the sawfish that we put

620
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 4: a transmitter in is by receiver, and it would just

621
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 4: be days of this sawfish not moving for days by

622
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 4: this receiver. They were just like when I live here

623
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 4: now and I'm just gonna live here for like two weeks,

624
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna move any further than like five hundred yards.

625
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna just gonna be.

626
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 4: Here it's like it's like okay, cool, I'm glad you've

627
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 4: invested in this place.

628
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: And then they'll be like, ah.

629
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: But now I want to move to a new place.

630
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 4: And then they will just in May just up and

631
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 4: be like we're out of here, and they go all

632
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 4: the way up the coast of Florida. On both sides,

633
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 4: they're like all the way up to like Appalatricola Bay,

634
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 4: which is by like Panama City Beach. This is the Panhandle,

635
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 4: the very tip right before you get into Alabama. Sometimes

636
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 4: they'll be we have we have environmental DNA that suggests

637
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 4: that they go all the way to Mississippi, and then

638
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 4: we've had detections all the way to Georgia.

639
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 2: We've had people see them before in South Carolina.

640
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 4: So they just are like I don't want to move,

641
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 4: and now I want to move really far and then

642
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 4: I'm gonna sit and then I'm gonna go back.

643
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: Yes, that's you know.

644
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I do really aspire to these charks because

645
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm similar where sometimes I need a

646
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: lot of naps and then after I've had my little nap,

647
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm like ready to go. I'm full of energy. But

648
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: then it's I need those naps. I need to be

649
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: able to just like lie down for a while before

650
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: I am ready to go to the panhandle, which in

651
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: my situation it's just like going to the grocery store.

652
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: I also love their little faces like underneath, because you

653
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: know their mouth is it looks like it is underneath there,

654
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: so rather than kind of like you know, it's the

655
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: same thing as like with rays, Right you flip over

656
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 1: a ray or don't do that, but if you do

657
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,479
Speaker 1: do it, you see like they have their little mouth.

658
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: It's adorable and it's the same thing here and you

659
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: look at it and they like it goes from being

660
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: very menacing looking when you look at it like top

661
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: down and you see this like saw blade rostrum and

662
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: it's like very intimidating. And you look underneath and it's

663
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: like this little smiley face and a big nose. Yeah.

664
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 4: They I think they kind of look like someone who

665
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 4: took their dentures out and they're smiling at you.

666
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: It's like a little muffing face.

667
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, Oh it's so cool, very very cool. What

668
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: is one aspect of your work, like when you're.

669
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 3: Out on the boat and.

670
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: Doing research on these sharks, Like what do you think

671
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: is one of the most surprising aspects that people when you.

672
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: Tell people about it.

673
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: That you have to do, like when you are handling

674
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: sharks or when you're doing shark research.

675
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: I mean, the first thing that people always ask me

676
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 2: is have you been bitten by a shark? And I

677
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: have not.

678
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 4: And people have this image that like sharks are just

679
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 4: out to get you, which is unfairly earned because they're

680
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 4: just vibe and just like any other animal, and they

681
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 4: have this bad reputation and so it's like, yes, this

682
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 4: is a wild animal, but so are tons of other animals,

683
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 4: and you respect them, you take precautions, you don't do

684
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 4: anything that is going to obviously upset them and feel

685
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 4: make them feel like they need to fight you. And

686
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 4: they are just kind of like, I mean, I don't

687
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 4: like this, but I don't feel like you're trying to

688
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 4: kill me. So I'm kind of just gonna sit here

689
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 4: and then I hope you let me go, and then

690
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 4: as soon as you let me go, I'm out of here.

691
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

692
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 4: So's it's it's sort of like, you know, I have

693
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 4: a dog taking my dog to a that he's like squirming, yeahs, like, ah,

694
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 4: please don't put that thermometer in my butt, which is fair.

695
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very fair. They must be so confused by that,

696
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: like why would you do that?

697
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 4: And so it's the same thing with starts in the

698
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 4: same way that I would handle a dog or a

699
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 4: cat or any other animal that people normally interact with,

700
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 4: Like it's just as likely that a dog or a

701
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 4: cat could bite or scratch you.

702
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: Yes, you're probably yes, you're probably more at risk of

703
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: my dog Cookie nipping you than a shark nipping you,

704
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: because she is uh, she expresses discomfort with just like, well,

705
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put your finger in my mouth now because

706
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: you're doing something I don't like.

707
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 3: This cold thing is up my butt, and I do

708
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: not like it.

709
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: So, like I feel it is funny because like I

710
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: feel like we give such a pass to like cute

711
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: little dogs, cute little cats, right, and they're biting and

712
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: they're scratching, and but like you know, with sharks, it's like,

713
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: you know, it's the same thing, right, you might get

714
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: a little a little bite from a shark if it's

715
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: scared or something or curious, like sometimes like when I'm

716
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: petting one of my sisters in law's cats, like it's

717
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: not upset. It's just like, well, I'm gonna now taste

718
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,959
Speaker 1: your hand and just give it a chomp. It's like, okay, man,

719
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: I don't know why you're doing that. But we give

720
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: cats and dogs this past and then sharks. Then when

721
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: a shark is like, you know, it takes a little

722
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: curiosity nibble, it's like, oh, well, you're you're just onto

723
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: logically evil animal.

724
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

725
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 4: And so whenever I'm teaching people like interns and students

726
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 4: how to handle sharks, I always tell them never yourself

727
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 4: between the shark and the water. Like, if you're on

728
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 4: the boat and you're you're doing a shark tagging, you're

729
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 4: going to always be inside the boat and have the

730
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 4: shark facing the outside the boat because guess where the

731
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 4: shark wants to be in the wood. So like, if

732
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: the shark gets away from you, the shark is not

733
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 4: gonna think oh let me go bye that person. It's

734
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 4: gonna think freedom and jump into the water. But if

735
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: you're standing between the shark and the water, the shark

736
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 4: thinks I have to go through you, right. I need

737
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 4: I need to get you out of my way.

738
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: I need to be like the kool Aid man, and

739
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: like barrel through this person like a wall.

740
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

741
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 4: So that's that's what I tell people, is like sharks

742
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 4: are like any other animal, we give them this bad reputation.

743
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 4: I mean, a shark will be mining its own business,

744
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 4: swimming down beach and the headlines will read like man

745
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 4: eating sharks stock beach goers in Miami, and it's like,

746
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 4: all right, this shark is literally just swimming mining its business.

747
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 4: Note how it has swam past hundreds of people and

748
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 4: just kept going on.

749
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: Its very way. It is not interested in any of you.

750
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 2: But we don't say that about like a squirrel, Like

751
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: if a squirrel is running around Central Park, We're not

752
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: like man eating squirrels stocks people in Central Park.

753
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: Although sometimes like college campus squirrels are legitimately legitimately frightening

754
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: because they're so used to humans and they understand that

755
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: we have food, and I have there have been squirrels

756
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: that have been very intimidating. Also ground squirrels when you're

757
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: on the beach and they learn that like humans have food,

758
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: they will not leave you alone, like they are determined

759
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: and if they're like you have a sandwich, they if

760
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: they could kill me for a sandwich, I'm sure they would.

761
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: They absolutely have that in them.

762
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they're mammals and they're furries, so we get

763
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 4: them a past. That's what I've noticed. Yeah, you're a mammal,

764
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 4: we give you a pass. Or like you're like us, Yeah,

765
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 4: you can't be evil.

766
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 3: I mean it's like.

767
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: Because like bears I think are similar. It's like a

768
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: similar situation with bears, right, Like, bears can be dangerous, right, Like,

769
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: they can hurt and injure a human being, just like

770
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 1: a shirt can hurt and injure a human being. Usually

771
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: it's defensive or by accident, but you know, on occasion, yeah,

772
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: like it can chomp you up. But then we're like, oh,

773
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: but bears are so cute and so cuttly. It's like, well,

774
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: they are definitely not cuddly, but we still like to

775
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: give them a pass.

776
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 3: Do you remember that.

777
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly when it was, but there was

778
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: that there was a they had sent like a drone

779
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: off the coast of I want to say, somewhere in California.

780
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: But like they were just using this drone to like

781
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like survey the area, and they

782
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: saw a bunch of sharks and also a bunch of

783
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: swimmers and it's like you just saw that there was

784
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: this like people who were swimming would not be able

785
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 1: to see these sharks. It was only because they had

786
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: this like drone camera footage, and the sharks were completely

787
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: ignoring all of the surfers, all of the swimmers, and

788
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: there were more sharks than people expected that there would

789
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: be in this area, and they were just like, yeah, man, whatever,

790
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really care. I'm not interested in you,

791
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: and like usually it's just it was kind of interesting

792
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: because some of the response to that was like, oh

793
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: my god, there's so many sharks.

794
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 3: That's so scary.

795
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: But it seems like the response should be like, there's

796
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: so many more sharks than we thought, and they're ignoring everyone.

797
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 3: They have no interest.

798
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

799
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 4: Like I'll go out with friends or family and we'll

800
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 4: go to the beach or something and they'll be like, jasma,

801
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 4: there's sharks in this water. And I'm like, all right,

802
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 4: do me a favor. Stick your finger in the water,

803
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 4: lick your finger. Is it salty?

804
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 2: And they're like yeah, And I'm like, then there are

805
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 2: sharks confirmed.

806
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: Yes, sharks do live in the ocean. It is it

807
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 4: is their home. There's no such thing as shark infested waters.

808
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: Yes, they live there, there's people.

809
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I guess.

810
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 4: So it's like, ah, sharks in ocean makes headlines. Why,

811
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 4: like you wouldn't go, oh my gosh, there are birds

812
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 4: in the sky.

813
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: Yeah I know. I mean, yeah, I think that. Yeah,

814
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. I think that, you know, jaws and other

815
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: sort of a kind of media stories about sharks and

816
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: shark attacks are they're so sensationalized, right, Like it's it

817
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: makes it seem like these are just vicious predators and

818
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: obviously you know they are predators, but for like fish

819
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: and seals and crabs and squid. Uh. But you know,

820
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 1: unless they kind of mistake you for one of those things,

821
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: you're usually gonna be fine. Like I'm not not saying

822
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: like go and find a shark and like put your

823
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: hand in its mouth and tease it.

824
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 3: But you know, for the most part.

825
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: Like shark shark attacks are just incredibly rare. It just

826
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 1: is very unlikely to happen. And even if it does happen,

827
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: usually they like kind of take an exploratory bite and

828
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: they're like, uh, yuck, no, thank you, check please.

829
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. It sort of wild to me. How how much attention.

830
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 4: It gets because there's nothing else like that where you

831
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 4: have a story where someone has an interaction with wildlife

832
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 4: and it like is world news if somebody if somebody

833
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 4: dies by a shark attack, it like is literally news

834
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 4: all over the world. It's like headlines all over the world.

835
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 4: And that happens like maybe ten times in a year,

836
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 4: and there are billions of people in this world. I

837
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 4: can't imagine something like being that hyper focused on like

838
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:40,760
Speaker 4: anything else. It's like, ah, this person you know, fell

839
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 4: behind a vending machine and got stuck and died.

840
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: Stairs killed so many more people just stares, just get

841
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: out and it's it's fine.

842
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 4: It's whenever people are like, well, I don't want to

843
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 4: go into the ocean because it's I'm scared of sharks,

844
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 4: and I'm like, there's so many fun things to do

845
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 4: in the ocean and like so many fun critters to

846
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 4: see and like things to learn about, and you're gonna

847
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 4: let something like that stop you, Like it's like I

848
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 4: always try to like outweigh yeah, the like sphere with

849
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 4: like ah, but like beaches are fun, cruises are fun.

850
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 4: You know, all of these things are fun. Yeah, they

851
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 4: take place of the ocean. Like you're just never gonna

852
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 4: go into the ocean because you might be one of

853
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 4: the billions and billions and billions of people.

854
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, world that gets bit by a shark. Yeah, And

855
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, do you drive?

856
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, like.

857
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 2: You you could definitely die getting in a car.

858
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've already survived that.

859
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've already survived a much more dangerous activity that day,

860
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: which is driving.

861
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

862
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 4: So it's like you, you know, you know how you

863
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 4: make the choice, but like, yes, you could get in

864
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 4: a car accident and you could die, but it's way

865
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 4: better to drive than to not drive. Like, you know,

866
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 4: I'm trying to create that same sense with the ocean,

867
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 4: and like, yes, we obey traffic laws, we put on

868
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 4: our seat belts, we put air bags in our car,

869
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 4: we have all of these safety measures in place. It's

870
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 4: the same thing with sharks. There are lifeguards. You can

871
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 4: do certain things like not swimming at dawn or dusk,

872
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 4: don't swim by you know, floating dead whale carcasses.

873
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: Look at it, man, oh man, I really wanted to

874
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: swim next to that dead bloated whale carcass.

875
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 4: You know, like just pay if you're diving, don't go

876
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 4: touching sharks because honestly, most of the shark bites that

877
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 4: we have in the world are provoked, and usually it's

878
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 4: somebody touching a shark. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you

879
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 4: wouldn't go grab a squirrel in Central Park because guess

880
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 4: what it's gonna bite you. Yeah, don't go grab in

881
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 4: a shark, don't touch them, don't get in their space,

882
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 4: don't swim towards them. Definitely, don't make them feel like

883
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 4: they're cornered.

884
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

885
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 4: And then the other thing that has happens is like

886
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 4: people are actively in chummed waters or they're spearfishing. Spearfishermen

887
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 4: also have the one of the highest rates of like

888
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:38,439
Speaker 4: having shark bites. It's because they're literally like shooting thing

889
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 4: at you know, fish and it's bloody and it's creating

890
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 4: all of this mess. So yeah, obviously you're going to

891
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 4: have those, you know, increased likelihoods there.

892
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you do want to know what it's like

893
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: to touch a shark, you could get like a I

894
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: don't know, I'd say like two ordred three hundred grit

895
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: sandpaper and rub that. That's gonna be kind of what

896
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: it feels like. There are aquariums. You'd probably want definitely

897
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: go to like a you know, major aquarium for this

898
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: so that you know that they're taking care of the

899
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: animals well. But like say Monterey Bay Aquarium, they do

900
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: have some tanks where they will let you very gently

901
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: put your hand in the water and just let a

902
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: raise go by, and that also gives you a pretty

903
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: good sense of what that feels like. So, yeah, there

904
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: are ways to have the experience of what it is

905
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: like to touch a shark without actually trying to touch

906
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: a shark. And I know they're cute, and I also

907
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: want to cuddle them. I want to hold them in

908
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: my arms and sing to them, but they won't like that,

909
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: so I won't do that.

910
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to.

911
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 4: Have in a controlled setting with trained professionals that can

912
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 4: monitor the situation and the shark behavior.

913
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

914
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: Before we go, can you speak a bit about minorities

915
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: in shark science and how people could get involved.

916
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 4: Sure, So, Minorities in Shark sciences or myths as we

917
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 4: call it.

918
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 3: Good it's a solid acronym.

919
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: Can I just say solid acronym?

920
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 4: So myths is dedicated to supporting gender, minorities of color,

921
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 4: and folks from the global South that are interested in

922
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 4: marine science, particularly the study of sharks and rays, and

923
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 4: we do that in a number of ways. We serve

924
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 4: what we call ka gray So we have outreach programs

925
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 4: for youth, spring break camps, summer camps, science at the

926
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 4: c days, we go to schools and community groups to

927
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 4: talk about sharks and their relatives. For folks that are

928
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 4: older that are interested in getting into the field, we

929
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 4: have fellowships, internships, We have workshops like professional development workshops,

930
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 4: a huge variety. We try to make it as accessful

931
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 4: as possible, so it's all expenses paid.

932
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 2: There are three day long.

933
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 4: Time commitments, there are one month to three months. There's

934
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 4: all sorts of options to engage with marine science in

935
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 4: a meaningful way, even hybrid experiences where it's partially online.

936
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 4: And then we do research, so we help support people

937
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 4: doing research all over the world. We have about five

938
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 4: hundred members representing about thirty four different countries and the

939
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 4: majority of US states and territories, and we support them

940
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 4: in doing their research, particularly focused on in inclusive conservation

941
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 4: and research, where we center the voices of communities that

942
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 4: don't typically get to be heard in science or in

943
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 4: conservation and ways to get involved. We have applications for

944
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 4: programs open pretty much all the time, so you can

945
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 4: go on our website and you can join our mailing

946
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 4: list to stay up to date on opportunities. You can

947
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 4: also on our website find the donation button you can

948
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 4: donate to support us. You can buy swag if you

949
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 4: do want to come touch a shark. We do have

950
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 4: a fundraiser happening right now, which is Shark Scientists for

951
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 4: a Day, where you can buy a ticket and come

952
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 4: and learn about the research that we do. Come on

953
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 4: the boat with us and be a shark scientist for

954
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 4: a day, and by doing that, you allow two of

955
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 4: our participants to get hands on training. So your ticket

956
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 4: pays for two participants in one of our workshops to

957
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 4: get training as well, so that is an option. And

958
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 4: then there's tons of information about our various programs all

959
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 4: on our website. We also are very active on social media.

960
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 4: We're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok nice TikTok.

961
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: I totally understand TikTok. I am completely with it.

962
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: I will takes one of us.

963
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: Yes, Shark Talk, I will link to that. I'll put

964
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: a link to that website in the show notes and

965
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: where and can people pick up your book? Just in

966
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 1: bookstores or online? Where can people get to your book?

967
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 1: Sharks don't sync.

968
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you can get the book pretty much anywhere

969
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 4: books are sold, So check out your local independent bookstore.

970
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 4: Support independent bookstores. And if you don't have an independent

971
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 4: bookstore that's around you. Barnes and Nobles, Books, a million, Amazon,

972
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 4: all of those places will have it. And it's on

973
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 4: audiobook and it's on ebook, so check with your library.

974
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 4: See if it's in your library. See if it's on Libby.

975
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 4: You can read it an e book, So check that out.

976
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Jasmine.

977
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: This was really really fun and I learned a lot

978
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: about bon ahead Sharks. Now it's time to play a

979
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: little game called guests Who's Squawking? The Mystery Animal sound Game?

980
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: Full disclosure, I am recording this in the future, which

981
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: I guess is your past, but the future from when I.

982
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 3: Recorded the rest of the podcast.

983
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: Anyways, So last week's episode was a rerun because I

984
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: needed a little vacation.

985
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 3: It was called.

986
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: Lap Camels, and so this was the mystery animal sound

987
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: hint from that episode it was you may find these

988
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: little dudes booging to an imaginary beat, but it's probably

989
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: for the prey that lies beneath their.

990
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 5: Feet, so cute.

991
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: Congratulations to Sherry Ce for guessing correctly that this is

992
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: the American woodcock.

993
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 3: It is pretty.

994
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: Internet famous for walking in a very particular rhythmic fashion,

995
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: which is thought to possibly be to create vibrations under

996
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: the earth that mimics that of rain, which would then

997
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: drive worms up to the surface. But yes, it makes

998
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: that adorable little pink sound, and it is also the

999
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: bird itself, very very cute. All right, So two weeks

1000
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: ago we had an episode called Hot Sharks Summer. Highly

1001
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: recommend listening to that one if you haven't already given

1002
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: that this one if you liked the sharks on this

1003
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: when we talk about other sharks there. But the mystery

1004
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: animal sound hint was this, don't talk with your mouth full.

1005
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 3: Sorry, I can't stop laughing.

1006
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: Okay, So congratulations to Ari L.

1007
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 3: M roots K for guessing.

1008
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: Correctly that this is a harbor seal enjoying a fish

1009
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: with his snoot in the water.

1010
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 3: Very cool.

1011
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: So I'm going to hold off on doing a new

1012
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: mystery animal sound game because next week I plan to

1013
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: do a listener Questions episode, so the week after I

1014
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 1: will do a new one when I have a guest on.

1015
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, because I'm doing a listener Questions episode next week,

1016
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: I have not put in writing that. So if you

1017
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 1: do have a question that you'd like me to answer,

1018
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: do write in and maybe I'll answer it next week,

1019
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: maybe sometime in the future, or send you an email.

1020
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: And I do love your questions, so write to me

1021
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:19,439
Speaker 1: at Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com. Thank you guys

1022
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you guys for listening. If you are

1023
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: enjoying the show, if you leave a rating and review,

1024
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: that really does help me and I do actually read

1025
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: every single one of them. And thanks to the Space

1026
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: Classics for their super awesome song XO Lumina. Creature features

1027
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like the one

1028
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: you just heard, visit the.

1029
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts.

1030
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: Or Hey gus, what where have you listened to your

1031
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: favorite shows? I don't judge you, not your mother, and

1032
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what to do except don't poke

1033
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: a shark unless you are being supervised by experts.

1034
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 3: See you next Wednesday. A MHM