Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar Lazarre.
Speaker 2: Hello, everybody nailed it. Joined us always by our bar.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barr. Delay the hurt,
Speaker 1: delay the hurt.
Speaker 2: But you can delay the hurt, delay the hurt, delay
Speaker 2: the hurt. We did delay the hurt last week. That
Speaker 2: was Alex. That was probably the happiest that I've been
Speaker 2: after a Patriots draft in a long time.
Speaker 1: Same.
Speaker 2: Obviously, I really liked the twenty one draft too, because
Speaker 2: you get the new quarterback. We all, I think, really
Speaker 2: liked Christian Barmore in that pick. But in terms of
Speaker 2: just I don't even know if it was happiness. It
Speaker 2: was more, honestly, of quite frankly, relief that they got
Speaker 2: a player in the first round that we all could
Speaker 2: get behind. Right, it was a consent player as a
Speaker 2: player we had talked about at nauseum in the in
Speaker 2: the pre draft process. And I sent you that thing
Speaker 2: from Holmes the Lions GM, Brad Holmes, right, Brian Holmes,
Speaker 2: Brad Holmes, and he mentioned just the the whole mock
Speaker 2: draft culture, right, and how we are pre determined to
Speaker 2: have an opinion on these picks where when the organization
Speaker 2: doesn't make the pick that we predicted or expected them
Speaker 2: to make, we are already going to be negative about it. Right,
Speaker 2: Our brain just automatically switches on to negativity because that
Speaker 2: wasn't we didn't have him in a mock draft. We
Speaker 2: didn't have him on our big board, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: And I think there's totally something to that, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And I think I find myself doing that on draft
Speaker 2: weekend too, And that's why I like doing the show.
Speaker 2: A couple of days afterwards here on a Thursday, a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks later, it's Evan Lazar Alex Barth twenty two.
Speaker 2: I always do that. I always just go like right
Speaker 2: into it. And at this point, and don't you know,
Speaker 2: tell people who we are, what the show's called, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna be with you here for the next hour
Speaker 2: and fifteen hour and thirty. We're gonna try to be efficient.
Speaker 2: After I go on this rant right here at the top,
Speaker 2: We're gonna try to be efficient and go pick by
Speaker 2: pick here in a little bit. But the main thing
Speaker 2: is is that I always get to a point and
Speaker 2: maybe it's cope babe, it's me talking myself into into
Speaker 2: the draft, to my my Homer inside me on the
Speaker 2: Patriots side of things. But I always get to the
Speaker 2: point where, whether or not I love every pick, I'm like,
Speaker 2: okay with the draft, right, I'm okay with it. Last
Speaker 2: year took a little bit longer than than most years,
Speaker 2: but you know, this year, I feel like I'm at
Speaker 2: that point where let's turn the page. Let's get these
Speaker 2: guys out into OTAs in mini camp and then training
Speaker 2: camp in July, and let's see what they're all made of.
Speaker 2: I don't think that any of it I can be
Speaker 2: totally up in arms about. I think there's some nitpicks
Speaker 2: across the board, more about what they didn't do, I think,
Speaker 2: than what they did do. You know, positions they didn't
Speaker 2: address and things like that. But overall, I feel like
Speaker 2: they at least I'm at least gonna give them, Like
Speaker 2: I don't really love grades, but like a B minus
Speaker 2: or a B right. They passed, they passed the test.
Speaker 2: Did they hit it out of the park outside of
Speaker 2: the first round. I don't think so, but they at
Speaker 2: least did enough where I can now get to the
Speaker 2: point where, Okay, let's see, I'm not the biggest fan
Speaker 2: of Keon White, but like, let's see what he looks
Speaker 2: like in pads and let's see what it comes out to.
Speaker 2: I've sold myself completely on Marty map who I now
Speaker 2: have him as the next Fred Warner, Like you know that,
Speaker 2: that pick I'm on board with. And then the interior
Speaker 2: guys or maybe not, which we'll get to in a second.
Speaker 2: Those guys, I think I'm on board with the fact
Speaker 2: that they're gonna be reliable depth and maybe even some
Speaker 2: of those guys could be starters in certain spots down
Speaker 2: the line, and that there's something to be said for
Speaker 2: that on the offensive line. I think we're all going
Speaker 2: to look back on this draft though, and then you
Speaker 2: can give your your taking them. We'll get into the
Speaker 2: efficient part of the show. I think we're all on
Speaker 2: board with the fact that it's more about what they
Speaker 2: didn't do in this draft and what they did do.
Speaker 2: And in particular, I understand everybody, myself included, as enamored
Speaker 2: with pass catchers, and we all want that number one guy.
Speaker 2: We all want that Stefan Diggs, Tyreek Hill, Garrett Wilson,
Speaker 2: we all want that player for the Patriots. But I
Speaker 2: did kind of get to the point with this draft,
Speaker 2: and I know you were already there that maybe that
Speaker 2: guy wasn't in this draft, especially where they could address
Speaker 2: it unless they were gonna pick, say, Flowers in the
Speaker 2: first round. It just didn't seem like that guy existed
Speaker 2: in this draft, to tell all of you the first round.
Speaker 2: So that those are the things you have to weigh.
Speaker 2: Do you want Christian Gonzales on the team or do
Speaker 2: you want Jackson Smith and Jigba. If you say Jackson
Speaker 2: Smith and Jigba, there's certainly an argument for that, but
Speaker 2: it's it's that kind of debate because you couldn't get
Speaker 2: both in this draft. And that's why I think they
Speaker 2: waited till the sixth round on receivers is because they
Speaker 2: truly felt like Josh Downs and to Mario Douglas kind
Speaker 2: of the same guy, right, kind of the same thing.
Speaker 2: So why are we drafting Josh Downs in the third
Speaker 2: round when we can get to Mario Douglas in the
Speaker 2: sixth I don't always subscribe to that theory. I think
Speaker 2: there is a difference at the end of the day.
Speaker 2: But athletically, from a size, speed, skill standpoint.
Speaker 1: Douglas might be better athletically, even.
Speaker 2: It's not that different. So that's where I'm out with
Speaker 2: the draft. I'm willing to let by guns be bygones
Speaker 2: on a lot of things. The one thing I can't
Speaker 2: let go. Yeah, the one thing is tackle.
Speaker 1: I just I did take a tackle.
Speaker 2: Stop it.
Speaker 1: They did.
Speaker 2: They did not take a tackle. They did not let
Speaker 2: me finish my thought. They did not take a tackle.
Speaker 2: That is a day one starter at tackle. That is true,
Speaker 2: and that tells me, and I said this on PU
Speaker 2: that they clearly like the tackles better than we do.
Speaker 2: They do well.
Speaker 1: Matt grow told us that two three weeks and we.
Speaker 2: Believed him because it was it seems sincere at the time,
Speaker 2: and he backed it up with the way that they
Speaker 2: ran the draft. They like Riley Reef and Calvin Anderson
Speaker 2: and Trent Brown and Connor McDermott and Yanni could just
Speaker 2: better than the people on the outside of the building.
Speaker 2: And Okay, I'll let them have this one. Let's see
Speaker 2: what let's see what it looks like. But I am
Speaker 2: very concerned about tackle because I think they have enough
Speaker 2: pass catchers. I think Bill O'Brien's gonna do his thing.
Speaker 2: I think that's going to allow Mac Jones to do
Speaker 2: his thing closer to his rookie season, if not better.
Speaker 2: But can they protect? Can they hold up in pass protection?
Speaker 2: And they're gonna face some really good edge rushers on
Speaker 2: their schedule, So are they gonna be able to hold
Speaker 2: up in pass protection? I think is going to be
Speaker 2: the make or break for this offense.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this. You just said that
Speaker 1: whole thing about receiver and like they waited because they
Speaker 1: couldn't get the guy outside of Yes, they did actively
Speaker 1: pass on Proderick Jones, and I'd say the same thing
Speaker 1: to you. Who would you rather have Proderc Jones or
Speaker 1: Christigan Salaz?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Was there really really a Day one starter at tackle
Speaker 1: on the board after that? I know there's guys who
Speaker 1: liked Yeah, Blake Freelan, Jannia Morris, guy, Yeah, But were
Speaker 1: those guys truly day one starters? The one guy maybe
Speaker 1: is Dewan Jones. But for him to fall as much
Speaker 1: as he did tells me there was something in his interviews.
Speaker 1: I know there's a report out there now that he's
Speaker 1: telling teams he wanted to play in the NBA. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, the league clearly didn't view him
Speaker 1: as a Day one starter.
Speaker 2: He debunked that on Twitter. He was like, I don't
Speaker 2: know where that came from.
Speaker 1: It seemed weird. It seemed very weird. He did get
Speaker 1: D one basketball offers, but she had.
Speaker 2: To see the highlights that they showed on ESPN during
Speaker 2: the draft of him dunking on people at six age.
Speaker 1: That was the whole thing. Always too big, he can't
Speaker 1: move the footwork. I try to tell people, but was
Speaker 1: there a tackle that kind of fits the description of
Speaker 1: the guy you're looking for after the first round? I
Speaker 1: don't think there was. Yeah, I think now, look, I
Speaker 1: think you could say so they were going to have
Speaker 1: to develop, but a draft of developmental tackle and where
Speaker 1: the other you can say, well, if you're going to
Speaker 1: draft a developmental tackle, draft a guy who play tackle,
Speaker 1: that's a fair argument. But right after they passed on
Speaker 1: Proderc Jones, they were going to end up with the
Speaker 1: developmental tackle one way or the other, and that's what
Speaker 1: they did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's two guys that I think that you
Speaker 2: can because I think once you get into the third
Speaker 2: round of this tackle class, just looking at something, you know,
Speaker 2: looking at the way that things came off the board
Speaker 2: probably not gonna gonna talk about a tackle at seventy six, right,
Speaker 2: I just I don't really see it. I think the
Speaker 2: one guy was Nick Saldeveri, who went with the very
Speaker 2: first pick of the fourth round that maybe had some
Speaker 2: third round potential, But I can understand why where their
Speaker 2: thought process was not going in that direction. I suppose
Speaker 2: I think the one the second guess is probably why
Speaker 2: didn't that trade up in the second round materialize? Because
Speaker 2: they've made that trade up several times five years, five
Speaker 2: years in a row. They had the capital and the
Speaker 2: one guy.
Speaker 1: As a buyer's market, it was a beneficial market for
Speaker 1: teams looking to move up rather than ye down.
Speaker 2: So the one guy that you look at and that
Speaker 2: situation is obviously Matthew Bergeron from Syracuse, who went thirty eighth,
Speaker 2: so exactly where the bar More trade literally exactly. So
Speaker 2: maybe you know who was it an Atlanta really loved
Speaker 2: Matthew Bergeron and you would have to jump Atlanta. Right,
Speaker 2: So now you're talking about giving up even more capital,
Speaker 2: maybe even the third seventy six to move higher than Atlanta.
Speaker 2: But that was the one I guess. Anton Harrison went
Speaker 2: twenty seventh to the Jaguars at the end of the
Speaker 2: first round. I think that's a little bit too high.
Speaker 2: I think you're giving up a lot to get up
Speaker 2: to twenty seven from forty six. Yep. So that that's
Speaker 2: an interesting conversation. I think why didn't a trade up
Speaker 2: in the second round materialize?
Speaker 1: Did they think Bergeron was worth it? A lot of
Speaker 1: teams viewed Bergeron coming in as a guard, right, and
Speaker 1: what you want the moving up for a guard, Like,
Speaker 1: maybe they didn't think he was a tackle, but.
Speaker 2: They think cities, how is a tackle? I'm just playing? Well, no,
Speaker 2: the size of this that's all.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe they're more comfortable. So if they're if it's
Speaker 1: a comparable thing, right, this guy's probably a guard, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna try and to tackle. Wouldn't you rather draft
Speaker 1: that player with your third pick in the fourth round
Speaker 1: than moving up in the second round?
Speaker 2: It's fair, right, yep.
Speaker 1: So maybe they saw Bergeron as a guard and said,
Speaker 1: you know what, if we're gonna have to draft a
Speaker 1: guy that we're gonna have to play there out of
Speaker 1: position anyway, we're gonna do it later in the draft.
Speaker 1: And we also know how much they liked Keon White.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a good a good tia to Keon White.
Speaker 2: And I think the other second guess that a lot
Speaker 2: of people have is obviously missing out on this tight
Speaker 2: end class. And based off of mac Roe's comments, it
Speaker 2: seems like their tight end board might have been really small,
Speaker 2: like a lot smaller than maybe we thought about this class.
Speaker 1: I think, really small and maybe a little more the
Speaker 1: way he said guy, he says them like guys were
Speaker 1: going faster and faster off the board. I wonder if
Speaker 1: they I think they had guys graded differently than most
Speaker 1: of the league. I think the league had a lot
Speaker 1: of these guys great at higher than they did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that one definitely had a little bit of
Speaker 2: of interesting twists.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Tucker Craft I think went two picks after seventy six.
Speaker 2: I think he was seventy eight or seventy nine. Josh
Speaker 2: Downs and Tucker Craft went within like three picks of
Speaker 2: their pick at seventy six, and then obviously Darnell Washington, Yeah,
Speaker 2: at the end of the third round. So my guess
Speaker 2: is that Darnell Washington was probably either off their board
Speaker 2: or maybe more like Kishan Boodi territory due to injury
Speaker 2: that they would have taken him on day three just
Speaker 2: for the upside, but probably not in a top one
Speaker 2: hundred pick situation. And then you look at the players
Speaker 2: that went off the board in the second round, unless
Speaker 2: that materialized that second round trade up to get a
Speaker 2: guy like a Musgrave or a Laporta or a Meyer
Speaker 2: that went in the thirties, I'm not taking schoon Maker
Speaker 2: at forty six, like, I think that was a reach
Speaker 2: by Dallas, And I don't really Breton's strange that early
Speaker 2: also was strange right like that that was just a
Speaker 2: little bit of a surprise too. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess what I'm coming at with with tight end
Speaker 2: and with the tackle and receiver is once they took
Speaker 2: Christian Gonzales in the first round, the board really didn't
Speaker 2: I don't think fall completely. Now. The one second guest
Speaker 2: that I would I would say, like I just said
Speaker 2: with tight end is Tucker Craft.
Speaker 1: Tucker Craft over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like what was up with that? Because we had
Speaker 2: heard about the.
Speaker 1: And that's Josh Downs too, by the way, when yeah,
Speaker 1: kick after we had.
Speaker 2: Heard about the connection with Bill O'Brien and that Alabama
Speaker 2: tried to get Tucker Craft from South Dakota State. We
Speaker 2: had heard that they had him in for a top
Speaker 2: thirty visit. We had heard a lot of things connecting
Speaker 2: Tucker Craft to the Patriots, So I would love to know.
Speaker 2: Obviously they I don't think they're gonna tell us right
Speaker 2: anytime seeing why they didn't pick Tucker Craft, but that
Speaker 2: that's the one that I think you can you can
Speaker 2: hang around Dewan Jones. I know I've gotten a lot
Speaker 2: of people asking about Dwan Jones. I'm sure you have.
Speaker 1: To Darnad Washington.
Speaker 2: No, I just moving back to tackles. Yeah, because that
Speaker 2: Darnald Washington, we know how to knee issue that came
Speaker 2: out during the draft, Dwan Jones's situation. Honestly, I think
Speaker 2: you know, Trent Brown went really late in his draft,
Speaker 2: and I wasn't. We didn't cover the draft back then,
Speaker 2: so I don't know what the whole story was with that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes when people are that big, it scares teams off.
Speaker 2: The weight scares teams off. To be three hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty pounds, it's a little bit scary. Is he gonna
Speaker 2: have the motor, Is he gonna have the the focus,
Speaker 2: Does he have the diet right, does he have the discipline?
Speaker 2: For the NFL, because if he's gonna play at three eighty,
Speaker 2: we know with Trent the Patriots have weight clauses in
Speaker 2: his contract to keep him closer to I think to
Speaker 2: probably three sixty, maybe even three forty three forty five
Speaker 2: if they can get him there. So I think with
Speaker 2: a guy like Darnell Dewan Jones, excuse me, that weight
Speaker 2: becomes a flag for teams to be that size. You
Speaker 2: get concerned, can this guy? Can he play sixty five snaps?
Speaker 2: And if he plays sixty five snaps in the NFL
Speaker 2: in a game, how good is he for all sixty?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: You know? Is he playing fifteen at full tilt? And
Speaker 2: the rest of them? He doesn't have the motor, he
Speaker 2: doesn't have the endurance to play hard or all those
Speaker 2: types of things I think are what teams have conversations about.
Speaker 1: Except look, he did it at Ohio State.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I agree with it, so I can
Speaker 2: hear that here's.
Speaker 1: What I think it is. And it's kind of to
Speaker 1: your point. And remember when I first brought Dwan Jones
Speaker 1: up on this show. My compo was for him, wasn't
Speaker 1: you remember?
Speaker 2: Was it trend Brown?
Speaker 1: No, it was Tarik Wollan because I think there's an
Speaker 1: element of it's kind of what you just said. When
Speaker 1: a guy is and it's a little different size wise
Speaker 1: in terms of positions, but when a guy is that
Speaker 1: big and that athletically gifted, I think teams look at
Speaker 1: it and say what's the catch, and I think they
Speaker 1: overthink it. Yeah, Tarik Wolan went in the fifth round
Speaker 1: last year. He's the twenty first corner on the board
Speaker 1: and short of you know, a historic rookie season from Sauce,
Speaker 1: Gardner would have been defensive Rookie of the year. But he
Speaker 1: went in the fifth round. There was no reason for
Speaker 1: him to go in the fifth other than we've got
Speaker 1: to be missing something. Everything else in the makeup checked out.
Speaker 1: It was an overthing.
Speaker 2: To be fair, he was. He was a little bit
Speaker 2: raw in common.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying he should have gone in
Speaker 1: the first round.
Speaker 2: Right, but he went to a great situation.
Speaker 1: He was a top one hundred pick. He was you
Speaker 1: look at him, he was a top one hundred pick
Speaker 1: and he went like he went in the fifth round. Now,
Speaker 1: he didn't fall as far or he fell further than
Speaker 1: Dewan Jones did. But I think some of it with
Speaker 1: Dewan Jones was team's looking at it and saying, he's
Speaker 1: guy six eight, three seventy he's got basketball footwork. There's
Speaker 1: got to be something wrong with him. There's got it
Speaker 1: like you look like comprehension.
Speaker 2: Trent Brown just because he's irrelevant for the Patriots. But
Speaker 2: Orlando Brown's another guy that fell because of his size. Right,
Speaker 2: you know, the teams just they don't like it. They
Speaker 2: for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: They because I think they overthink it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they worry about the motor. They
Speaker 2: worry about can this guy true play sixty five seventy
Speaker 2: five snaps in an NFL game at a tempo that
Speaker 2: teams with these modern offenses like to play at at
Speaker 2: a tempo where he's moving, he's past blocking on an
Speaker 2: island like the playing NFL football. Well, you know it's
Speaker 2: a lot. All right, let's take some of these calls
Speaker 2: and then we'll get into the pick by pick. Uh, Patty,
Speaker 2: is this a Star Wars call or is it a
Speaker 2: football call? Patty?
Speaker 5: Oh, it's definitely a football call.
Speaker 2: What's up?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 5: I just wanted to get both of your guys opinions
Speaker 5: on what do you think the realistic camps that to
Speaker 5: Mario Douglas makes the fifty three man roster. I honestly
Speaker 5: don't like I'm intrigued by Boute, but I don't think
Speaker 5: he's probably gonna make the roster, you know, barring them
Speaker 5: trading away one of their receivers from last year that's
Speaker 5: still on the roster. But to me, Douglas, the way
Speaker 5: the way you guys talked him up during the Shrine
Speaker 5: Bowl week, like, to me, he's he intrigued me a
Speaker 5: little bit more than.
Speaker 2: Does Yeah, Patty, thanks for the call. As always, I
Speaker 2: think that that's really fair to look at where de
Speaker 2: Mario Douglas is right this second, compared to Kishan Bute
Speaker 2: is more intriguing. He's healthier, he's been better more recently
Speaker 2: than Booty. Is it Booty or b I want to
Speaker 2: say Bote. I don't want to call the guy booty. Uh,
Speaker 2: he's been better recently last year literally last year, right right.
Speaker 2: Butte is a complete project projection that he's going to
Speaker 2: get back to the way he was in his first
Speaker 2: sixteen games at LSU before the injury. Douglas doesn't have
Speaker 2: that kind of concern. He's just coming from liberty and
Speaker 2: he's smaller.
Speaker 1: And he only has one year of college production.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm oh, yeah, well one year of like
Speaker 1: major major. He was really good with Malik Willis also, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't he forget he missed games or something like. No,
Speaker 1: he just he was coming on right, right, he didn't
Speaker 1: play as he was ran. That's what I'm saying. He's
Speaker 1: one year of like being a starting receiver.
Speaker 2: Right, but the tape that put him on the map
Speaker 2: for NFL teams including the Patriots year.
Speaker 1: Oh yes. So what I would say though, and actually,
Speaker 1: of both of them on my initial roster projection, I
Speaker 1: think what will help Douglas more than Bote is Ba's
Speaker 1: role as a starting wide receiver, and he's kind of
Speaker 1: blocked right, Like Patty said, unless they move somebody, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have DeVante Parker, Juju Smith, Schuster, and then either
Speaker 1: Taekwon or Kendrick Bourne. That's your eleven, right. I don't think,
Speaker 1: at least not initially, I don't think to Mario Douglas's
Speaker 1: role is to like be in the receiver rotation. To me,
Speaker 1: he's about They had this really dynamic package last year
Speaker 1: with Marcus Jones that worked super well, but they couldn't
Speaker 1: run at a ton because Marcus Jones, like he only
Speaker 1: had so many hours in the day, and they made
Speaker 1: them focusing on defense and things like that. And he's
Speaker 1: made it clear and the teams kind of suggested that
Speaker 1: he's a defensive player. He might play on offense here
Speaker 1: and there, but he is a defensive player. He's not
Speaker 1: making the shift to offense full time. But you'd still
Speaker 1: like to have that package available to you whenever you
Speaker 1: want it because it's a good package. To Mario Douglas
Speaker 1: as a ball carrier is comparable to Marcus Jones, and
Speaker 1: he even said he's watched Marcus Jones. So that to
Speaker 1: me is how he gets on the roster. It's an
Speaker 1: opportunity to run the Marcus Jones package. Without Marcus Jones
Speaker 1: on the field, there's a very clear role for him
Speaker 1: on the team. So I actually think he has a
Speaker 1: good chance at making it. We go back to when
Speaker 1: we talk about leading him the draft, right, I always say,
Speaker 1: even if it's not the player I want them to draft,
Speaker 1: if there's a path to playing time, if there's a
Speaker 1: clear role, I will never straight up hate the pick
Speaker 1: because if you tell me you have a plan for
Speaker 1: this guy. Fine, I'll buy in. Let's see what the
Speaker 1: plan is there is I think there can be, and
Speaker 1: who knows what it actually is, but I think there
Speaker 1: can be a very clear plan for Damario Douglas to
Speaker 1: contribute in New England as a rookie. Although Kashan Butez
Speaker 1: certainly is a higher ceiling, I actually think the plan
Speaker 1: for him in year one is much murky than it
Speaker 1: is for tomorrow Douglas.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. Because they have four receivers, there's
Speaker 2: gonna be a spot for a fifth guy, and I've
Speaker 2: seen some Matthew Slater doesn't count, right, So there's gonna
Speaker 2: be a spot for a fifth guy. And if you're
Speaker 2: looking for a guy that adds a different dimension and
Speaker 2: adds something else to that room that isn't repetitive to
Speaker 2: the guys that are gonna be the ones that are
Speaker 2: gonna be playing the most, it's Douglas.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Bute's role is very very similar to Juju. It's very
Speaker 2: very similar to Kendrick Bourne. There.
Speaker 1: He's kind of like somewhere right in between the tools, right.
Speaker 2: And so, yes, there is a world and I think
Speaker 2: this is maybe the argument for Bote. There is a
Speaker 2: world that we get out to trading camp in July
Speaker 2: and Kaishon Bute looks like freshman year Kaishan Butte, and
Speaker 2: he's just a star right there. There's certainly a world
Speaker 2: where that could happen. Maybe not a realistic one, but
Speaker 2: because we care to dream on this program, it could
Speaker 2: possibly happen. But the guy that has the most realistic
Speaker 2: and easiest path to the roster is to Mario Douglas.
Speaker 2: And I was talking to Eric Galaco from the Shrine
Speaker 2: Bowl for a profile on Douglas and that that is
Speaker 2: exactly the comp that he made. He said, he's basically
Speaker 2: Marcus Jones if Marcus Jones was a full time offensive player, right,
Speaker 2: and and that's exactly what the Patriots could do to
Speaker 2: with him. So as much as I would love to
Speaker 2: use my comp of Marcus Jones, but if he was
Speaker 2: on offense, like Galco just brought up, I also think
Speaker 2: of guys like maybe like a Nicole Hardman Rights as
Speaker 2: a decent comp for him as well. I think Harbin's
Speaker 2: more a faster guy in a straight line, right, like
Speaker 2: Carbon's like a four to two guy, like he's he's
Speaker 2: faster than Tomorrio Douglas. But I think Tomorrio Douglas might
Speaker 2: actually be a little bit more of a polished route runner,
Speaker 2: you know. I think one of the things that stood
Speaker 2: out to me is the most about Douglas's film was
Speaker 2: the double moves, the vertical double moves that he runs,
Speaker 2: the post corners, the out and ups like things. It
Speaker 2: looks like Zay Flowers like. It's really very very similar.
Speaker 2: Obviously not a game, it's the same level of competition.
Speaker 2: But that's another thing that Galco said about Douglas was
Speaker 2: that Zay even recognized that Douglas was similar to him.
Speaker 2: He said he that Zay was coming up to him
Speaker 2: and being like, who's this kid from Liberty? Looks like
Speaker 2: me out there right right, And so that element of it,
Speaker 2: I think it definitely all the reasons why we wanted
Speaker 2: or I wanted I don't want to put you in
Speaker 2: this corner, all the reasons that I wanted Zay Flowers
Speaker 2: on this football team. Tomrio Douglas does a lot of
Speaker 2: the same things. Yeah, he's just not as complete of
Speaker 2: a player.
Speaker 1: It's just not his experience, right.
Speaker 2: Zay Flowers can play inside, he can play outside. He
Speaker 2: has a full route tree. Tomorrio Douglas is a lot
Speaker 2: more Mkole Harmon. He's a lot more gadget and vertical,
Speaker 2: Like those are the two things that you're gonna get.
Speaker 1: So two more things on Tomorow Douglas. One another reason
Speaker 1: I think is a chance to make the team. So
Speaker 1: Marcus Jones obviously returns both kicks and punts, but he's
Speaker 1: more comfortable as a punt returner, Like that's kind of
Speaker 1: his game. Yeah, Tomrio Douglas is actually more of a
Speaker 1: kick returner than a punt returner. So it takes one
Speaker 1: more thing off Marcus Jones' plate without maybe a step back,
Speaker 1: where Marcus Jones is your punt returner to Mario Douglas
Speaker 1: is your kick returner. One other really interesting comp I
Speaker 1: heard for to Mario Douglas, and it's an imperfect comparison,
Speaker 1: but because this guy was probably ahead of his time,
Speaker 1: Yeah was Percy Harvin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I always get worried about comparing people to Percy
Speaker 2: Harvin just because the mythical nature of Percy. Everybody remembers
Speaker 2: Percy Harvin and thinks of this guy that was like
Speaker 2: this generational Hall of Fame athlete, which I think he was.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, no, But but isn't that kind of
Speaker 1: the point. NFL teams didn't know how to use Percy
Speaker 1: Harvin when he was in the league. They kept trying
Speaker 1: to turn him into like a traditional receiver, and they
Speaker 1: were sending him over the middle and you just got
Speaker 1: the crapp eat out of him. Yeah, because he wasn't
Speaker 1: big enough. He wasn't big enough for me. And this
Speaker 1: is when there were still everybody had two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty pounds linebackers that were, you know, playing zone in
Speaker 1: the middle of the field in head hunting, not head hunting,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, yep. And now that
Speaker 1: these linebackers have got much smaller, it opens the door
Speaker 1: for these hundred and eighty pound burner receivers to just
Speaker 1: go out there and put guys in a blunder people.
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting comparison because that's probably who Percy
Speaker 1: Harvin should have been. Line him up in the backfield,
Speaker 1: line him up in the slot, put him in motion,
Speaker 1: have him returned kicks, just find ways to get the
Speaker 1: ball in his hands in space. I've always an interesting comparison.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good one. I think the biggest thing,
Speaker 2: and then we can move on from Douglas. The biggest
Speaker 2: thing with Douglas to me is that I did not
Speaker 2: see him necessarily being that Julian Edelman wes Welker chain
Speaker 2: moving jitterbug underneath right. He ran some hitches, he ran
Speaker 2: some slants at Liberty, but this is a horizontal field stretcher,
Speaker 2: as like sort of a gadget player right behind the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage or a vertical die like. Those are
Speaker 2: the two things that he did the most at Liberty,
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't necessarily look at him as like a
Speaker 2: high volume He's gonna catch eighty passes in the slot.
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's necessarily the projection, but certainly
Speaker 2: the quickness, the separation ability, and then obviously the game
Speaker 2: breaking ability with the football in his hands. If all
Speaker 2: those things translate from Liberty to the pros, and I
Speaker 2: don't really see any reason why they shouldn't just give
Speaker 2: him based off his combine. He tested, and he ran well,
Speaker 2: and he jumped out jumped almost at a forty inch vertical,
Speaker 2: which tells you how explosive he is in the lower half.
Speaker 2: He should be able to translate. So really exciting player.
Speaker 2: Definitely one of those guys, Alex that a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks when we get to go out to OTAs, I
Speaker 2: think tomorrow Douglas might be the star of OTAs because
Speaker 2: when you can't when you're not in pads and you
Speaker 2: can't hit him and you can't contact him really and
Speaker 2: he's just running around out there, he's going to make
Speaker 2: some plays. All right, Sean and Vancouver, what's up, Sean?
Speaker 6: Hey, everybody's going, Yeah, happy Star Wars Day. But I'm
Speaker 6: not going to talk about that. I want to talk
Speaker 6: about the draft, and yeah, I love Gonzales and when
Speaker 6: that pick was coming down, I was still surprised that
Speaker 6: he was there and JSDN and I would have been
Speaker 6: happy with Broderick Jones, but obviously you have to pick,
Speaker 6: and we got the best of just about anyone who
Speaker 6: could have possibly been available. So that's great. The only
Speaker 6: thing that I'm kind of irked about is two of
Speaker 6: my draft crushes that were projected to go in the
Speaker 6: late first, early second were there to be taken, and
Speaker 6: for some reason injuries and other concerns, maybe laziness, they
Speaker 6: just kept falling in the Patriots past. And so I'm
Speaker 6: just hoping now that whoever plays right tackle for the
Speaker 6: Patriots will have a better season than Dewan Jones. And
Speaker 6: somehow Darnell Washington doesn't stay on the field, And that's
Speaker 6: weird to try and root against guys that you liked
Speaker 6: that but that's thing. Going to be really mad that
Speaker 6: that happened, because you know, Evan, I know that Paul
Speaker 6: bugged you about saying you know more than Bill Belichick,
Speaker 6: but you know, Bill Belichick isn't always right. He made
Speaker 6: terrible decisions last year that put us in bad spots.
Speaker 6: So that's even though he's the greatest coach of all time,
Speaker 6: he doesn't mean that he's going to get everything right.
Speaker 6: And we've seen that a lot, but that happens. Now.
Speaker 6: I'm one of the players that I'm really rooting for
Speaker 6: is Cities out because I grew up in Montreal and
Speaker 6: I've been to Beaumont, so nice to have someone from
Speaker 6: that area on the team. And I'm kind of hoping
Speaker 6: that it's kind of a pie in the sky thing,
Speaker 6: but I'm kind of hoping that he plays right tackle
Speaker 6: the same way that when you did in twenty twenty
Speaker 6: one and does well and that settles that spot and
Speaker 6: we're okay on the line. And then the question I
Speaker 6: have for you is do you think Jack Jones will
Speaker 6: start on the as a permitter corner? Do you think
Speaker 6: they'll be an outside corner for the Patriots in twenty
Speaker 6: twenty three?
Speaker 2: Awesome? Yeah, thanks for the call, Sean. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of good points there. Look, were all going to
Speaker 2: look back on Dowan Jones and Darnell Washington's careers, and
Speaker 2: if they end up having great careers, then we're going
Speaker 2: to look back on that as what if.
Speaker 1: Right you don't have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I personally I like rooting for them because it
Speaker 2: makes me look right hyped.
Speaker 1: So I am couldn't inflicted on Zach Kunz.
Speaker 2: But that's the start, you know, like, if if Zay
Speaker 2: Flowers ends up having a great career in Baltimore, then
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be okay with it, honestly.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look, Justin Jefferson is your favorite player
Speaker 1: in the league?
Speaker 2: Yes, for a reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyways, the question that he had or the point that
Speaker 2: about City sat in the line, and I guess can
Speaker 2: tee us up for the discussion on those guys. I
Speaker 2: think the biggest thing was City sal and I would
Speaker 2: put Tony O Maffi in this category two. Uh, they clearly.
Speaker 2: I think that both of those guys resemble mike on
Speaker 2: Wenu for different reasons, if that If that makes sense,
Speaker 2: and I think that both those guys the idea behind
Speaker 2: those picks are similar to well, look at how well
Speaker 2: mike on Wenu worked out our system and how that
Speaker 2: situation worked out so well. With Sau, I think that
Speaker 2: he's a little bit similar to mike on Winnu if
Speaker 2: Michael Win who stuck a tackle right or maybe even
Speaker 2: I guess what Michael when who is He's also got
Speaker 2: a little bit of Marcus Cannon in him, I would
Speaker 2: say as well, just in terms of a guy that's
Speaker 2: a little bit taller, a little bit longer than a
Speaker 2: mike on win who uh Tonio Maffi from UCLA is
Speaker 2: mike on win who just carbon copy essentially. I think
Speaker 2: he's maybe a little bit smaller, like ten pounds smaller,
Speaker 2: but he once was heavier. They he's lost a lot
Speaker 2: of weight and he he plays and looks this wide
Speaker 2: bodied interior lineman for sure, heavy heavy handed. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a couple of plays against USC that I that
Speaker 2: I saw that as soon as he gets his hands
Speaker 2: on people, it's the rep is over right. He's got
Speaker 2: these heavy mits, great latch strength, great upper body towards,
Speaker 2: so he can just throw guys to the ground at
Speaker 2: that point. Once he's got you, there's gonna be the
Speaker 2: same questions, I'm sure when on one who came out
Speaker 2: that I remember about his heavy footed mists and his
Speaker 2: ability to laterally change directions. I think the biggest thing
Speaker 2: with him is once he if he loses early in
Speaker 2: the rep, if he doesn't get first contact, he doesn't
Speaker 2: get your hand his hands on him initially, is he
Speaker 2: going to have that redirect, that recovery talent to be
Speaker 2: able to then refit and hold his ground right or
Speaker 2: is he going to be boom or bust? Is he
Speaker 2: going to be somebody that either gets his hands on
Speaker 2: you and it's over or you go around? And that
Speaker 2: was what happened a little bit at UCLA at times.
Speaker 2: But there's a ton of connections there, Citi sow. We've
Speaker 2: heard the Albert Breer report. Now he certainly checks the
Speaker 2: boxes from a length standpoint and an athleticism standpoint at
Speaker 2: the combine to be able to play tackle. He's got
Speaker 2: just over the threshold on the arm length, and he
Speaker 2: had a pretty good combine workout where he's an above
Speaker 2: average athlete, so he can play tackle. Based off of
Speaker 2: what I saw of him, I don't love him at tackle.
Speaker 2: I just think a lot of those types of guys
Speaker 2: you can just sort of tell that their skill set
Speaker 2: is so much more conducive to a phone booth than
Speaker 2: it is to space and being on an island, because
Speaker 2: when he comes off the ball, he can generate so
Speaker 2: much displacement on the line of scrimmage just with his
Speaker 2: upper body power and is really I would say his
Speaker 2: leverage and he's him and Mafi both have a pretty
Speaker 2: rare ability to bend for guys that are that size.
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of projection because he also
Speaker 2: didn't play tackle recently. It's been a couple of years. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But I think either way, I like both of those guys.
Speaker 2: I think both of those guys have a role on
Speaker 2: an NFL roster, and we'll make a team like the
Speaker 2: Patriots obviously, So I'm intrigued by both of them. But
Speaker 2: I know you were joking earlier about sal playing tackle,
Speaker 2: but there's some rationale to it. Certainly.
Speaker 1: I look at that size six eight or six five
Speaker 1: three twenty three. He got thirty three and three eight
Speaker 1: cinch arms, So he checks the box there. He's tremendous athlete.
Speaker 1: He's one of the best offensive line testers at the combine. Yep,
Speaker 1: if you take his numbers at tackle, their top three
Speaker 1: in every drill he did for tackles at the combine.
Speaker 1: And there's something to be said for all. Right, if
Speaker 1: I say this, how many times I say this, he's
Speaker 1: that big in that athletic, get him in the building
Speaker 1: and figure it out, right, And I think what I
Speaker 1: worry about with him at tackle is the footwork, right,
Speaker 1: I think he is the here's the thing. I think
Speaker 1: he's a size and athleticism to play there. It's just
Speaker 1: a technique thing. But this is all Their whole draft
Speaker 1: was great size, great that great athleticism, needs better technique,
Speaker 1: which they draft all. They drafted all the uncoachable traits,
Speaker 1: and they're just banking on the coaching staff to get
Speaker 1: these guys going. Yeah, for the most part, like Christian
Speaker 1: zalz polished, they did draft a couple more high floor guys.
Speaker 1: To Mario Douglas, I think Mafi's more a high floor
Speaker 1: guy than a high ceiling Maffi is.
Speaker 2: The type of guy that, like, he could play right
Speaker 2: guard tomorrow and he might not be the best right
Speaker 2: guard in the league, but he's not gonna be.
Speaker 1: He's gonna he's gonna he could go. He could play
Speaker 1: right guard in the NFL tomorrow, he could go. He
Speaker 1: could play right guard in the NFL in ten years.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be the same player.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's not a pro bowler, but like, that's the
Speaker 1: guy is where is Sow to me is the opposite.
Speaker 1: I don't know that Saal can come in and play
Speaker 1: right guard tomorrow, but if he maxes out talking about
Speaker 1: a pro bowler, at least a guard tackle again, does
Speaker 1: he have the ability to go to that open side
Speaker 1: and protect the edge and get around the horn. That's
Speaker 1: gonna be the big question. We're gonna see it, and
Speaker 1: we're not really gonna get to see it in the
Speaker 1: spring because there's no pads. We'll see it in training camp. Look,
Speaker 1: I still think tackle is gonna be a need. I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna hammer tackle as much next offseason as
Speaker 1: we did this offseason.
Speaker 2: At some point they got to address it eventually, Like.
Speaker 1: Sav's a lottery ticket if he works out a tackle. Awesome, great,
Speaker 1: that would be sick. I don't think you can bank
Speaker 1: on it, right, that's a that's a what if. But
Speaker 1: I like him. I like all the picks individually. I
Speaker 1: like the two guard picks individually. Andrews. I thought they
Speaker 1: picked a little high. He's gonna have size issues in
Speaker 1: the NFL. But it was like all of them together
Speaker 1: is kind of I'm like, did you need all those guys?
Speaker 1: Did you've drafted developmental tackle in there? But I like Sal.
Speaker 1: I liked Sal coming in. I'm glad they're trying him
Speaker 1: to tackle. I don't know that's gonna work, but again,
Speaker 1: a guy with that athletic profile, give him a shot.
Speaker 1: Why not? Right, That's kind of what the spring practices
Speaker 1: are for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that there's a chance that him and
Speaker 2: Mafi end up being good NFL players for them.
Speaker 1: Mafi to me, I will say one more thing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is Mike when winners last year in New England.
Speaker 1: I think that's very clear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was where I was going with the two.
Speaker 2: I think that's a real telltales sign because speaking to
Speaker 2: Mafi's offensive line coach at UCLA, speaking to Eric Alco
Speaker 2: from the Shrine, Bowl and Mafi was a Shrine Bowl guy.
Speaker 2: There's two things. One, Belichick really likes Mafi. He called
Speaker 2: Chip Kelly and had a whole conversation with Chip Kelly
Speaker 2: about Mafi. Right, So he's really in on Mafi. And
Speaker 2: I think that everybody that you talk to, his offensive
Speaker 2: line coach at UCLA, coach Drevno's just out of not prompted,
Speaker 2: was just like, you know, I recruited Mike on win
Speaker 2: who back in the day. Mafi's the same guy. He's
Speaker 2: the same guy. And when you look at that, I
Speaker 2: just look. I look at those traits and I look
Speaker 2: at the same thing, and it's hard not to read
Speaker 2: that as on when who's probably not going to be
Speaker 2: here next year. And that's that's just the way it screams.
Speaker 2: And I think SOO maybe, like you said, is more
Speaker 2: of that lottery ticket upside pick in the middle rounds
Speaker 2: because of the athleticism. So I don't know exactly what
Speaker 2: SU means quite yet, but I think Mafi is clear
Speaker 2: cut Mike on Winnu insurance, Like that's that's pretty obvious
Speaker 2: what he's on the roster for at the moment. And
Speaker 2: and we'll see about Andrews I that's the one thing
Speaker 2: I saw and heard about him was these bigger, more powerful, longer,
Speaker 2: yeah nose tackles, interior guys like I think about, you know,
Speaker 2: a guy like DeForest Buckner and like, you know, those
Speaker 2: bigger guy that he's gonna have problems with that, similarly
Speaker 2: to how Col Strange I had problems with his rookie year.
Speaker 1: The one thing I'll say, and this is where again
Speaker 1: there's always elements to this that sometimes we might find
Speaker 1: out immediately after the draft, we might find out years later.
Speaker 1: There's always things in play that we just don't know,
Speaker 1: that we just can't account for. Like we didn't know
Speaker 1: Darnel Washington had a knee injury before the draft, like
Speaker 1: I would have totally changed my projection. Yeah, maybe the
Speaker 1: Patriots know something about David Andrews that we don't.
Speaker 2: Well, I think what they certainly could know, And I
Speaker 2: don't think that David Andrews in terms of his health.
Speaker 2: I mean we saw him at the He's been at
Speaker 2: all these these workouts. We saw I saw him at
Speaker 2: the at the draft party on Thursday night. He's as
Speaker 2: locked in and bought into the systems as ever.
Speaker 1: But I think the watch like a guy like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one thing that you have to mention with David
Speaker 2: Andrews's thirty years old.
Speaker 1: He's going to be one.
Speaker 2: And I do think that he is the type of
Speaker 2: guy that would have the transparency with the organization. Uh,
Speaker 2: this might be it, so that That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Like, I wonder if he went to them and said
Speaker 1: this is my last year. Yeah, center becomes a much
Speaker 1: more logical pick.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I think there were better centers on the board too,
Speaker 1: That's part of it. Like I like Luke Whipler from
Speaker 1: Ohio State. Yeah, we talked about Alex Forsyth from Oregon.
Speaker 1: You have the Adrian clem connection.
Speaker 2: But when I was surprised about that, it was Andrews
Speaker 2: and not Yea and not Foresight.
Speaker 1: Well Whipler, they were at Whipler's prote Yea, I set
Speaker 1: all my crap about Ohio State and that was wrong.
Speaker 1: But Andrew Sandmitt when I'm wrong too. Like Andrews is
Speaker 1: under contract through twenty twenty four, He's still under contract
Speaker 1: for two more years, I thought. And they have Cody Ruci,
Speaker 1: who they seem to like, so I kind of thought,
Speaker 1: you give Rusi another year. You see where he's at Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then when Andrews is entering the contract year, if
Speaker 1: RUSI doesn't get to the point you wanted to get to,
Speaker 1: that's where you go and you invest heavily in the seven.
Speaker 1: They took Jake Andrews one hundred and seven. This is
Speaker 1: the next starting center of the Patriots. Eventually with that pick,
Speaker 1: I thought that was coming next year. But if you
Speaker 1: tell me, well, David Andrews told him that he's hanging
Speaker 1: it up after this year. Okay, Now that pick makes
Speaker 1: a lot more sense. Again, maybe I maybe would have
Speaker 1: gone with a different player. But if David Andrews wasn't
Speaker 1: a contract year, I would have said, Yah, center, top
Speaker 1: one fifty makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: It kind of goes back to it. And I think
Speaker 2: Covid threw a whole wrench in twenty twenty. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: Chung and Kyle Duggar, right, Yeah, the team kind of knew.
Speaker 2: I think before we all did that. Patrick Chunk was retired.
Speaker 1: It wasn't Dougger in a contract year that year.
Speaker 2: Patrick chungk you mean Chung? Yeah, he might have been,
Speaker 2: But I just know that there were at that point
Speaker 2: in time, there were the team was pretty aware that
Speaker 2: Patrick Chunk was either retiring or contemplating retiring. He ends
Speaker 2: up opting out of the season because of COVID and
Speaker 2: went that direction, then retired after the COVID year. Right,
Speaker 2: but the team was aware that Patrick chuckk was done
Speaker 2: playing football, right, We weren't as aware. I think there
Speaker 2: were rumblings and like that he was kind of on
Speaker 2: the fence about it. But I think that they were
Speaker 2: one hundred percent certain that he was not going to
Speaker 2: play next year. And that's where you get Kyle Duggar,
Speaker 2: you know, being the top pick in the draft for them.
Speaker 2: So I think it's similar, could be similar. I don't
Speaker 2: We don't have any answer.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know, but I'm I'm just saying, like.
Speaker 2: Makes more sense if that's the case, which would be
Speaker 2: a bummer because David Andrews a great page.
Speaker 1: Of course. No, I don't want to push him out
Speaker 1: to do it, and that's kind of was my first life.
Speaker 1: I hope they're not pushing David Andrews out I know,
Speaker 1: which I don't think they would. But you know, we
Speaker 1: do so much of using what's going on, what's being said,
Speaker 1: and what's being done to project draft picks. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is the time where we kind of do it the
Speaker 1: other way around, and do these draft picks tell us
Speaker 1: anything about the roster? Yeah, and that you know, I
Speaker 1: mentioned the Mic and winnything before. I think the two
Speaker 1: guards signal that they don't feel great about paying him.
Speaker 1: I know, you think Marte mop who's going to play linebacker?
Speaker 1: I wonder if did We're going to get to it.
Speaker 1: They are wondering about paying Kyle duggar uh. And I
Speaker 1: think Jake Andrews that pick tells me David Andrews assigned
Speaker 1: for two years, but maybe those two years aren't a guarantee.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's take this call from Michael, and
Speaker 2: then I do want to get into the day. Two guys.
Speaker 2: All right, Michael, what's up?
Speaker 3: Let's go Hey guys, Hey, guys are doing so you know,
Speaker 3: I think I think from from my perspective, like I
Speaker 3: know that you guys. I know Evan, you keep saying
Speaker 3: like they do they do on ANU with guard, he's guard,
Speaker 3: he's guard. And I just personally think that you've got
Speaker 3: to try your best offensive lineman's like they have to
Speaker 3: be your tackle. You can you can find guys like
Speaker 3: Moss in the fourth round so like I would, I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be surprised if they try on tackle again under
Speaker 3: Climb and O'Brien see maybe a PC could be the
Speaker 3: answer there. But overall, like you know, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of people that are like yah, I wish where they
Speaker 3: could have taken a tight end or you know, receiver
Speaker 3: early or even the develpmenttal tackle. I really do think overall,
Speaker 3: looking at the draft, I like it's should you consider
Speaker 3: how they've built this team in the off season with
Speaker 3: some of the free agent acquisitions, Like, there's not a
Speaker 3: lot of guys who probably find a little you know,
Speaker 3: in those spots where maybe would have staye one that
Speaker 3: can make an impact this next year. Maybe Josh Downs
Speaker 3: I can I can see that. But if they don't
Speaker 3: see Tucker Craft or at Krusis fits at tight end,
Speaker 3: then you know they're not gonna they're not gonna really
Speaker 3: ortake them in those spots. So but I just wanted
Speaker 3: to get you guys opinion on the overall off season
Speaker 3: in general, and like the way that they've approached team
Speaker 3: building and I think only missing the playoffs by one
Speaker 3: game last year, and if it wasn't for two return
Speaker 3: touchdowns against Buffalo, maybe we actually could send to the playoffs.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think I think overall the team is
Speaker 3: in a way better spot this year than it was
Speaker 3: last year in a roster perspective. But want to figure
Speaker 3: your guys thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for the call, Michael, I definitely agree. I'm
Speaker 2: not ruling out Mike on when are you playing tackle? Yeah,
Speaker 2: every all of the tea leaves say that he's going
Speaker 2: to stick a guard.
Speaker 1: I mean they were adamant about it last year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: remember that he's already now it's a different offensive mine now,
Speaker 1: so maybe that changes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But even Macro after the Day three of the
Speaker 2: draft said he's kind of settled in at guard, And
Speaker 2: I do think that there's something to be said for
Speaker 2: he's like the one consistent guy that you probably have
Speaker 2: on that line over the last couple of years besides Andrews,
Speaker 2: and to continue to move them around and mess with them, Like,
Speaker 2: I think there's something to be said for that. Now.
Speaker 2: The overall team building approach of the offseason, and that
Speaker 2: is it obviously can go in a lot of different directions.
Speaker 2: I think overall, though, I do, I am starting to
Speaker 2: see that they are building towards something. I think specifically
Speaker 2: on the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 1: Certainly they built and building towards. I mean, there's not
Speaker 1: much more they can.
Speaker 2: Have the defensive side of the ball. And I mentioned
Speaker 2: this on PU I went and I like to listen
Speaker 2: to some of the national guys, not not like on
Speaker 2: the talking head shows, like the podcast and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: You know, people's opinions that I trust and normally think
Speaker 2: are smart ball minds. They're bullish on the Patriots defense too,
Speaker 2: and the Patriots defense on paper right now is low
Speaker 2: key kind of loaded, especially if Christian Gonzales ends up
Speaker 2: being as good as we all think he's going to be.
Speaker 2: So the one question mark that I don't know if
Speaker 2: those people because they're just not here and they're not
Speaker 2: as glued into it as maybe we are, that that's
Speaker 2: not being brought up is obviously replacing Devin mccordy, and
Speaker 2: not necessarily the skill set, but just the mental side
Speaker 2: of it and the coaching on the field and the
Speaker 2: field general side of it. I think it's going to
Speaker 2: be harder than people realize. But talent wise, this defense
Speaker 2: has got talent at all three levels. They're faster, they
Speaker 2: have better athletes. I think in most spots, and that
Speaker 2: brings us to the two day two picks, because I
Speaker 2: will admit I was a little bit down after Friday night.
Speaker 2: I was up here after Christian Gonzales. And for people
Speaker 2: that don't know, we did a Christian Gonzales podcast last Friday,
Speaker 2: So if you want to listen to our takes on
Speaker 2: Christian Gonzales, we've already hashed that out. So that's why
Speaker 2: we're not doing that today. I was sky high when
Speaker 2: they picked Christian Gonzales in the first round. The second
Speaker 2: round brought me back down to Patriots draft territory, right, like,
Speaker 2: just back to real Patriot all right, They're gonna take
Speaker 2: their guys and they're probably not gonna be my guys,
Speaker 2: and this is just the way that it goes. I
Speaker 2: think starting with Marty Mapoo, you just said something that
Speaker 2: you're gonna get me going on this about his position, yeah,
Speaker 2: on the Patriots and his position in the NFL. I
Speaker 2: will be extremely critical of this team if they view
Speaker 2: Marty Mattpoo as a safety. I will be even more
Speaker 2: critical of this team if they view Marty Mapoo as
Speaker 2: a Kyle Duggart replacement. And the two reasons why are one,
Speaker 2: they have been starving, starving for some athleticism at the
Speaker 2: second level of the defense, like they need it more
Speaker 2: than they need anything else maybe on that side of
Speaker 2: the football at this point. And they drafted a two
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty pound missile at the linebacker position in
Speaker 2: college that has film of him doing all of the
Speaker 2: things that they need somebody to do, right, going sideline
Speaker 2: to sideline, the tracker, running back, spying mobile quarterbacks, read
Speaker 2: option plays. Like That's the one thing that I think
Speaker 2: is really important with these draft picks and guys like Mapu.
Speaker 2: They grew up in read option, they grew up defending RPO,
Speaker 2: they grew up defending mobile quarterbacks, Like this is something
Speaker 2: that isn't a learned behavior from them once they get
Speaker 2: to this level, right. I think with a lot of
Speaker 2: the Patriots old school, you know, two hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty five pound linebackers, I think a
Speaker 2: lot of those guys were just at the beginning of
Speaker 2: the RPO read option mobile quarterback craze even in college.
Speaker 2: Now it's like a whole different animal, right, The schemes
Speaker 2: and the creativity is out. Guys like Marty Mapu, especially
Speaker 2: in the FCS where he played football, where you aren't
Speaker 2: as talented as other teams. You're not Alabama or Georgia, right,
Speaker 2: So you have to get an edge with scheme and
Speaker 2: you have to get an edge with coaching to an extent.
Speaker 2: He he knows the keys on a read option play.
Speaker 2: He understands where they're trying to attack him on an
Speaker 2: RPO a lot better than a lot of guys. It's
Speaker 2: kind of like how grow talks about, you know, receivers
Speaker 2: being some natural pass catchers because of seven on seven
Speaker 2: right and having so much experience in the passing game. Now,
Speaker 2: I look at it the same way with Mapu. So
Speaker 2: on the one hand, he checks all the boxes that
Speaker 2: we've been clamoring for at linebacker in terms of speed, athleticism, instincts,
Speaker 2: that ability to when Josh Allen rolls right and throws
Speaker 2: across the field to a touchdown pass to Dawson Knox, Sorry, PTSD.
Speaker 2: We have a guy now that can that can push
Speaker 2: him out of bounce right. We have a guy now
Speaker 2: that can go get him, and that I think is
Speaker 2: something that they've been missing. The second thing is we
Speaker 2: have talked a lot about how the Patriots draft from
Speaker 2: basically sixteen to nineteen. If you want to say seventeen
Speaker 2: to nineteen, that range really set this organization back a
Speaker 2: half decade because they drafted so poorly.
Speaker 1: Three bad drafts set you back six years.
Speaker 2: Kyle Dugger was the first pick that turned the tide. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Kyle Dugger is not a perfect player. I know, you know,
Speaker 2: Badard goes on your station a lot, Alex and talks
Speaker 2: about how he's overrated and how he's got issues in coverage.
Speaker 2: And I don't necessarily disagree with any of the nitpicks
Speaker 2: about Kyle Dugger, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I do think that their nitpicks, and I think that
Speaker 2: he's a playmaker and he's an impact player on the
Speaker 2: defensive side of the ball. They don't have enough of
Speaker 2: those types of guys to just let one walk out
Speaker 2: the door, right, And that's also add to that that
Speaker 2: next year because they don't have a lot of cap commitments,
Speaker 2: because they don't have a lot of big price players.
Speaker 2: They have like one hundred million dollars in salary cap
Speaker 2: space or something ridiculous like that if you project.
Speaker 1: It out right now, third fourth most in the league, right.
Speaker 2: So they have all the money in the world to
Speaker 2: go out and pay Kyle duggar. Kyle Dugger is the
Speaker 2: is the beginning of a new era on that side
Speaker 2: of the football. And in a positive he is a hit.
Speaker 2: You hit on him in the draft. It was a
Speaker 2: good pick in twenty twenty. Why do you want to restart, like,
Speaker 2: why do you want to hit the reset button? Over money?
Speaker 2: Like over contract for a safety? Mind you, that isn't
Speaker 2: That's not a twenty plus million dollar a year deal.
Speaker 2: That's a position that's still watered down across the league.
Speaker 2: We're not talking about paying a guy twenty five million
Speaker 2: dollars a year. So I would be really I'd be
Speaker 2: really critical if they let Kyle Dugger walk and dis
Speaker 2: replace him with Marty Mapho. Marty Mapho if he hits
Speaker 2: his his potential, which I just mentioned a lot of
Speaker 2: the things that he can do. He can cover I
Speaker 2: would say more so in zone and I don't know
Speaker 2: if he's fast enough to be a true man guy
Speaker 2: on tight ends, but he can cover the second in
Speaker 2: the middle of the field, second level middle of the
Speaker 2: field type things. He's got that range, he's got that
Speaker 2: ability to go from the middle of the field to
Speaker 2: the sideline and make a play. He's got that quarterback
Speaker 2: spy element in that downhill trigger. And then the film
Speaker 2: at the Senior Bowl really showed a guy that even
Speaker 2: at two hundred and twenty pounds, has the physicality to
Speaker 2: hold up in the box. I really feel like he
Speaker 2: can take on blocks, and especially when he when he
Speaker 2: sees it and he goes triggers downhill, he packs a
Speaker 2: punch right because he's moving so quickly. He's explosive. So
Speaker 2: I think that he can play linebacker. And I look
Speaker 2: at guys like Matt Milano, I look at guys like
Speaker 2: Dion Jones. I look at guys that are Fred Warner
Speaker 2: is a little bigger Fred Warner. I look this up.
Speaker 2: He's Fred Warner is listed at two thirty five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Fred Werner's not real.
Speaker 2: So but I would say that Mapu is six ' three.
Speaker 2: He's not. Matt Milano is only six feet tall, right,
Speaker 2: Dean Jones is six to one, So he's got a
Speaker 2: little bit more length that maybe he could pack on.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily want him to pack on
Speaker 2: that much weight to match Fred Warner. But five to
Speaker 2: seven pounds of muscle, I think is realistic, and you
Speaker 2: get him too closer to two twenty five. I don't
Speaker 2: see any reason why that that guy should not be
Speaker 2: a linebacker here there. It just especially if you put
Speaker 2: him next to Jawan Bentley. So you have your two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty pounder, right, you have your thumber. I
Speaker 2: know what you're I know where your point is that
Speaker 2: that that this is what they do. They drafted year
Speaker 2: head Kyle Duggar is a free agent. They're similar enough
Speaker 2: that you could play them both in similar roles.
Speaker 1: Well, Kyle Duggart basically plays like a linebacker now.
Speaker 2: A little bit. But I I also just look at
Speaker 2: it and think, Okay, Devin mccorty's gone. This would in theory,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if it happens right away from
Speaker 2: Matt poo just because of various you know, peck injury
Speaker 2: level competition. In theory, though, this would free up Kyle
Speaker 2: Duggart to play more of a natural safety position.
Speaker 1: Okay, but now you're talking about replacing Kyle dug Art Mapho.
Speaker 2: No, I'm talking about Kyle dugger playing safety and Mapho
Speaker 2: playing linebacker. These two guys.
Speaker 1: But you're basically saying Kyle Dugger plays linebacker right now.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think he does. I think Kyle Duggar
Speaker 2: plays a hybrid.
Speaker 1: So then how does bringing in Mapo free up Dugger?
Speaker 1: So all right, you're saying this frees up Kyle Dugger
Speaker 1: plays safety because Mampho's gonna take over his.
Speaker 2: Role, Kyle Dugger playing deep safety, okay, and Mapoo playing
Speaker 2: in the box as the athletic guy in the box
Speaker 2: that has the power in the play, strength to be
Speaker 2: able to hold up at two twenty.
Speaker 1: Okay. So but if that's a linebacker, then you're saying
Speaker 1: Kyle Duger plays linebacker.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, I'm saying Kyle Dugger. We're getting into a
Speaker 2: lot of semantics here, I get it. I'm saying that
Speaker 2: Kyle Duggar has some has some overlap out back.
Speaker 1: Look right, look, here's I don't disagree with anything you said.
Speaker 1: But for all of that to what for Marte map
Speaker 1: who has a ton of NFL potential, For that potential
Speaker 1: to be recognized in New England, something massive has to break,
Speaker 1: and that can be any number of things. Six three
Speaker 1: two seventeen is not a linebacker in New England. It's
Speaker 1: simply not.
Speaker 2: So this is what This is what I'm getting at though.
Speaker 2: They need that philosophical change.
Speaker 1: So okay, but this is what I'm saying, so just
Speaker 1: off of trends though, either he has that, they have
Speaker 1: to completely rewrite how they view the lineback position. This
Speaker 1: is not a small change. This is a massive philosophical overhaul.
Speaker 1: That's one option, desperately, that is one option. The other
Speaker 1: option is he puts on twenty pounds and essentially plays
Speaker 1: like mac Wilson and ray Kwan McMillan. Now here's my
Speaker 1: issue with that. They're very impatient with those guys. You
Speaker 1: brought up the Josh Allen athleticism. That's what I'm saying, Well, again,
Speaker 1: something some guys can put on weight and still be effective.
Speaker 1: It's rare. You mentioned the Josh Allen play last year, right,
Speaker 1: Why didn't mac Wilson hit Josh Allen? Because the saying
Speaker 1: don't take penalties. They don't want their linebackers to be
Speaker 1: aggressive in that sense, and for a guy like this
Speaker 1: to be successful, he take chances. He is going to
Speaker 1: get beat sometimes. The other thing they could do, I've
Speaker 1: seen some people suggest this they could turn him into
Speaker 1: an edge rusher. Well, now he's changing position and he
Speaker 1: still probably needs to put weight on or six three
Speaker 1: two seventeen. With his athleticism is kind of a textbook
Speaker 1: Patriot safety.
Speaker 2: He is a.
Speaker 1: Physical fit for the Kyle Duggart role. But now he's
Speaker 1: changing positions and that's a risk. So no matter what happens,
Speaker 1: adapt Okay, but listen, just listen to my point. Okay,
Speaker 1: No matter what happens, the path for him to be
Speaker 1: successful in New England doesn't exist right now. For him
Speaker 1: to business as usual as a two hundred and seventeen
Speaker 1: pounder to play linebacker the way the Patriots ask their
Speaker 1: linebackers to play, that will not work. It won't, okay,
Speaker 1: So something massive has to break. You say it's a
Speaker 1: philosophical change.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: I think they might be looking at a position change.
Speaker 2: Ask because the reason I'm more optimistic about it working
Speaker 2: because I do think that you look at guys like
Speaker 2: Adrian Phillips, like Yle Dugger, like Jabriel Peppers that do
Speaker 2: play a lot of their snaps in the box, right
Speaker 2: and they that's.
Speaker 1: Kyle Duggar's role. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But what I'm telling you with Kyle Dugger is that
Speaker 2: having a Guylac Mapu that can do the things that
Speaker 2: he does in the box, will now allow Kyle Dugger
Speaker 2: to take over some of Devin mccorty's responsibilities. Right, So,
Speaker 2: I don't think that Kyle Dugger is a full time
Speaker 2: free safety, but they're going to need him to play
Speaker 2: some free safety.
Speaker 1: But so then you're putting Marte Mapu into those responsibilities
Speaker 1: of what is Kyle Dugar's position a safety? So you
Speaker 1: are suggesting a position change?
Speaker 2: Then no, but that's what that is. No I am
Speaker 2: I I am not. I want them to make him
Speaker 2: a linebacker, and I want linebackers in New England.
Speaker 1: But what you're describing is not what you're.
Speaker 2: Just such a classic argument.
Speaker 1: What you're describing is not him playing linebacker.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. I want what I want just to
Speaker 2: play weak side linebacker.
Speaker 1: Is that what Kyle Dugger does now?
Speaker 2: No, Kyle Dugger right now plays in the box because
Speaker 2: he matches up. Okay, okay, but.
Speaker 1: Let me as so, then how does drafting Marte Mopu
Speaker 1: help you play Kyle duggert free safety?
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, this is where I'm going with this.
Speaker 2: They need to philosophically change how they approach the linebacker position.
Speaker 1: Okay, but that has nothing to do with Kyle Duger.
Speaker 2: Yess it does because they need to this. Kyle Dugger
Speaker 2: is on the field and plays his role right now
Speaker 2: because they won't change from the Jawan Jawan Bentley's and
Speaker 2: Jolanni de VI's the world linebacker. Okay. So instead what
Speaker 2: they do is they play dime on third down and
Speaker 2: Kyle Dugger comes down into the box and plays in
Speaker 2: that role on third down because they take Jolanni Tavai
Speaker 2: off the field.
Speaker 1: So plays it. What is that role? It's a linebacker role.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a safety slash linebacker, moneybacker type of.
Speaker 1: Right, Isn't that what Marte Mopu doesn't That project is
Speaker 1: what they're gonna have him do.
Speaker 2: But I want him to do it on first down. Okay,
Speaker 2: So that's but I don't want him to do it
Speaker 2: in an obvious path. I want him to do it
Speaker 2: all down. But I'm not saying I want I don't
Speaker 2: want him to. I don't want Marty Mapu to be
Speaker 2: a situational player, Okay. I want the Patriots to recognize
Speaker 2: that they if they on their schedule next year, they
Speaker 2: have Josh Allen twice, they have Patrick Mahomes, they play
Speaker 2: the Eagles and Jalen Hurts. This is the league. You
Speaker 2: are gonna play these guys every single week nowadays. Guys
Speaker 2: that can run, Guys that can create out of structure,
Speaker 2: guys that can extend plays outside the pocket. And if
Speaker 2: you are trying to combat those offenses with two hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty five pound linebackers like Jolani Tovai and Jawan Bentley,
Speaker 2: then you are going to get run off to you.
Speaker 1: So you want a philosophical change again, if they change
Speaker 1: what they do philosophic and this is a massive This
Speaker 1: is rewriting the defense. This is not just oh, we're
Speaker 1: gonna create one role for this player that we're gonna
Speaker 1: use here and there. This is not having a package
Speaker 1: for Marcus Jones on offense. This is completely You're taking
Speaker 1: what day view is the most most important position in
Speaker 1: the defense. Maybe second most be behind corner, but you're
Speaker 1: taking with day view as a monumentally important position.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you are.
Speaker 1: Completely changing the way that they view entirely.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a big ask.
Speaker 1: Now, it would work. I'm not disagreeing with you that
Speaker 1: it wouldn't work. It would absolutely work, And would it
Speaker 1: make them a better defense. Yeah, probably, but.
Speaker 2: He's one step behind on this.
Speaker 1: It's I don't think I'm trying to the equivalent.
Speaker 2: It's the one thing and I give I give Belichick
Speaker 2: all the credit in the world for twenty years. Yeah
Speaker 2: he was always, not always, but he was either at
Speaker 2: the front of the line. He was a trailblazer. He was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was a trailblazing coach, especially on the defense side
Speaker 2: of the ball. Heck, the guy invented riplez, all right,
Speaker 2: he invented match coverage with Nick Saban and Cleveland thirty
Speaker 2: years ago. Now everybody, every in every Power five team,
Speaker 2: and every NFL team in the in the league has
Speaker 2: riple is in their playbook because of Bill Belichick and
Speaker 2: Nick Saban. Okay, but the one thing that he has
Speaker 2: not adapted on is linebacker. He hasn't done it. He
Speaker 2: still believes in gap control, compressing space, taking on blocks,
Speaker 2: and in order to do those types of things, you
Speaker 2: need to be two hundred and fifty pounds right, Okay.
Speaker 2: But the problem is is that when they play Buffalo,
Speaker 2: and when they play Kansas City, and when they play Philadelphia,
Speaker 2: and let's face it, let's stick it to Buffalo in case,
Speaker 2: because those are the two teams in the conference. We
Speaker 2: want the Patriots to get back to the super Bowl,
Speaker 2: you are going to have to go through one of
Speaker 2: those teams, if not both of those teams to get there.
Speaker 2: And right now they're defensive defensively, they can't play Kansas
Speaker 2: City in Buffalo that way. They can't. They can't playing
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Look, if it's a philosophical change, it's great. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: great because that's what they need to do. I'm just
Speaker 1: telling you how many times have they had a chance
Speaker 1: to make that change the last couple of you remember
Speaker 1: that linebacker classes all those guys, and.
Speaker 2: I think the description, I really hope that they finally
Speaker 2: see it. And I think a guy like Marty Mapho
Speaker 2: Marty Matpho didn't play safety in college, right, Marty Map
Speaker 2: who played linebacker, And I think the biggest difference is
Speaker 2: is between him and like a guy like Kyle Dugger.
Speaker 2: Is that because Marty Map who played full time at
Speaker 2: linebacker at Sacramento State, he has linebacker instincts, right, He
Speaker 2: reads run keys, he understands blocking schemes, he understands his
Speaker 2: role in the front seven. That that's different between when
Speaker 2: you put safeties at the second level, you're playing those
Speaker 2: guys out of position, right, Like you're counting on them
Speaker 2: to understand their their responsibilities, but they don't have. Marty
Speaker 2: Mapho has the potential and I'm not saying he's there yet,
Speaker 2: but Marty Mapho has like the instincts of the Juwan Bentley,
Speaker 2: but the speed of a Kyle Dugger.
Speaker 1: So I basically here's my point, because what you're saying. Again,
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with anything you're saying.
Speaker 2: I know this is like when we argue about mock draft.
Speaker 1: No different because I don't think this is semantics. I
Speaker 1: don't think the semantics. I think we're kind of viewing
Speaker 1: this differently. I agree with everything you're saying in theory. Realistically, though,
Speaker 1: what's more likely they change for the players or they
Speaker 1: asked the players to change for them.
Speaker 2: I I understand where you're coming from, right, But I'm hoping,
Speaker 2: and I understand that this is just a hope. This
Speaker 2: is just a fever dream of it of mine. You
Speaker 2: know when I when I think up things that you
Speaker 2: know late at night, Right, Yeah, this is my hope
Speaker 2: is is that they have drafted Marty Mapho because they've
Speaker 2: already planned to do this.
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, I think would be that if
Speaker 1: they plan to do this, they went into the draft saying,
Speaker 1: we want to create this role in our defense. We
Speaker 1: need to go get a guy to do it exactly.
Speaker 1: And there weren't a ton of those guys in this draft,
Speaker 1: right like it wasn't you know, we talked about this.
Speaker 1: I don't think Henry Toto is quite as athletic enough.
Speaker 2: I think, like Drew Sanders would have been the other option,
Speaker 2: but when I watched, they weren't taking a line back
Speaker 2: of that time and I when and when I watched
Speaker 2: Marty Mapoo. Actually, whether it translates or not, I know
Speaker 2: it is going to be the constant quest for everybody.
Speaker 2: But I see a faster downhill trigger for Marty Mattpoo
Speaker 2: than for Drew Sanders. I think Drew Sanders does a
Speaker 2: lot of the same things, but when it's clicking close
Speaker 2: time and it's just closing bursts to the football, I
Speaker 2: think Marty Mattpoo moves at a little bit of a
Speaker 2: different speed. But I might not be right about that.
Speaker 2: That's just eye test, you know, and we'll see. I
Speaker 2: am hoping that mainly, And look, I'm gonna I don't
Speaker 2: want to say it like that because I don't want
Speaker 2: to say that Bill can't adapt, because I just went
Speaker 2: on a rant about how much he used to adapt.
Speaker 2: But I think that there is a little bit of
Speaker 2: Drawd Mayo influence in this too. I think I hope
Speaker 2: where you know, Mayo talked about how he loves he
Speaker 2: loves watching he loves scouting. He said that, he said
Speaker 2: he loves scouting because he actually not only does he
Speaker 2: like watching the players, but he also likes to watch
Speaker 2: what the college teams are doing schematically right. And it
Speaker 2: has I have to think that he was watching all
Speaker 2: these players, all these linebackers that they wanted him to
Speaker 2: study in the aten, thinking tight fronts like you know,
Speaker 2: two hundred and twenty pound guys playing like what is
Speaker 2: any of this right? You know, why are we doing
Speaker 2: any of this? And then you look at the film
Speaker 2: against Buffalo or you look at you know they're gonna
Speaker 2: I think Kansas City is a perfect these modern offenses,
Speaker 2: and now all of them, they're all sprouting up all
Speaker 2: over the league and it's just gonna continue. They need
Speaker 2: to adapt, and I hope that they realize that, and
Speaker 2: I hope that they know that where Marty Mapu and
Speaker 2: your defense now is not a safety. Yeah, he's a
Speaker 2: three down linebacker, and you have your Juwan Bentley to
Speaker 2: play the mic on first down if you still want that,
Speaker 2: and you still need it because they Bill probably won't
Speaker 2: change his spots completely, right, So he's still gonna hold
Speaker 2: on to some things. Juwan Bentley can still be your
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty pound MIC that can play the
Speaker 2: run first down. But Marty Mapu's got to be playing
Speaker 2: at the second level of the defense. He's got to
Speaker 2: have a weak side linebacker responsibilities and rules. I don't
Speaker 2: want to man to man on a tight end. I
Speaker 2: want him in a hook, so I want him chasing
Speaker 2: and I want him tackling people. Yeah, right, that's it.
Speaker 1: So, and look, maybe it's interesting you bring up Mayo. Right,
Speaker 1: there's that report at the beginning of the year that
Speaker 1: he's coming back, and we figure he's gonna have a
Speaker 1: bigger role. We don't know what it is. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: the catalyst for the chains. Maybe Gerd Mayo comes in
Speaker 1: and says, Bill, I know you've done it this way
Speaker 1: for twenty something years, but yeah, I want to add
Speaker 1: this element to the defense maybe, and maybe that's what
Speaker 1: is So maybe that's it for the record for the
Speaker 1: people in the chat. Yeah, I know Kyle Dugger is
Speaker 1: a safety. I was trying to make a point. He
Speaker 1: is a safety.
Speaker 2: I get that, Yes, I just when I think of
Speaker 2: Kyle Dugger and I get that he aligns in the
Speaker 2: box sometimes and basically lines up as a linebacker. But
Speaker 2: he's somebody that for the most part is either handling
Speaker 2: high stress zone assignments at the second level, right, like
Speaker 2: you know, carrying the seam in a Cover two Tampa two. Right,
Speaker 2: he's the whole player and that in that defense, handling
Speaker 2: the weak side hook and Cover three. So when that
Speaker 2: crosser comes from the strong side of the formation, you
Speaker 2: have a really good cover player in there. He's man
Speaker 2: to man on a tight end. Right. I want Matt
Speaker 2: Pou to play like he's Juwan Bentley right, right, but
Speaker 2: I want him to play it three downs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just again, I'm not I don't disagree with you,
Speaker 1: but it would be such a massive departure from what
Speaker 1: they do.
Speaker 2: What they do, but they need to do it. They do.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they don't need to do it. But
Speaker 1: it's and at some point that's got to win any
Speaker 1: dog new tricks.
Speaker 2: He's he's he's changed before.
Speaker 1: I don't even mean like I didn't even mean that
Speaker 1: it Bill directly. I just mean in general, like their
Speaker 1: whole thing's built around this one concept. Again, because if
Speaker 1: you make that change, you're not just changing the way
Speaker 1: one player plays. It impacts everybody else on the defense,
Speaker 1: you have to change things about other positions to accommodate it. Again,
Speaker 1: I actually that you brought up d Mayo is a
Speaker 1: really good point. Yeah, maybe this is Drod Mayo coming
Speaker 1: in and saying I want to make this change philosophically
Speaker 1: on the defense, I'm calling this, go get me this guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, Maybe maybe it wasn't Map who maybe gave
Speaker 1: him five players and said give me one of these guys. Right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that to me would be the thing.
Speaker 1: But it's we're talking whether they do it or not, Evan,
Speaker 1: And you can want them to do it all you want,
Speaker 1: and I think there's certainly a case of doing it.
Speaker 1: You have to do it. It's a massive, massive change.
Speaker 2: It's a massive change in terms of it's a massive
Speaker 2: change in terms of like how they look at labeling positions, right,
Speaker 2: Like Kyle Duggan and Jabriel Peppers and Adrian Phillips have
Speaker 2: done some of these things recently, But they meet with
Speaker 2: Brian Belichick and Mike Pellegrino and the DBS, right, they
Speaker 2: don't meet with Gerard Mayo and Steve So from that respect,
Speaker 2: to have somebody that's in the meeting room with the
Speaker 2: linebackers and wearing a linebacker number and is a linebacker
Speaker 2: doing the things that they ask Adrian Phillips to do
Speaker 2: is certainly different. But asking a player of that size
Speaker 2: to take on some of the roles and responsibilities I'm
Speaker 2: saying he should take on they've been doing with their
Speaker 2: safeties for the last.
Speaker 1: Couple I guess the changes, Like you're not taking Adriane
Speaker 1: Phillips or Kyle dugar off the field to put this
Speaker 1: guy on.
Speaker 2: You might be taking Adrian Phillips off.
Speaker 1: That would be interesting.
Speaker 2: And Adrian Phillips getting up there.
Speaker 1: All right, It sounded like you were saying, like, take
Speaker 1: Juwan Bentley off the field or take like.
Speaker 2: I think that certainly, like Maphu should be your third Dan, Mike,
Speaker 2: like if you and look, we're this is projection. We're
Speaker 2: talking about this, you know, philosophically, and if the player
Speaker 2: works out, there's a chance that he's a dud and
Speaker 2: he's a bust and he doesn't play anything. Well. If
Speaker 2: the player works out, then on third I would even say,
Speaker 2: like depending on down and distance, on second down too, Yeah,
Speaker 2: he should be your Mike linebacker. On first down, he's
Speaker 2: gonna play offset Bentley because they're not gonna take Bentley
Speaker 2: off the field and have them run power at Marty
Speaker 2: Map who had two hundred and twenty pounds. They won't
Speaker 2: do it. So that respect, I think, you know, where
Speaker 2: does he whose spot does he take? Whose snaps does
Speaker 2: he take? I definitely think you're you're thinking more Adrian
Speaker 2: Phillips because I don't think they're pulling Kyle Dugan infield.
Speaker 1: Phillips is like significantly bigger than he is. He's not toleran.
Speaker 1: He's two hundred and ten pounds.
Speaker 2: Phillips is two hundred and ten pound.
Speaker 1: Philps two hundred ten pounds right listed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So I guess it's more like this is what I
Speaker 1: mean by the change, right, Where is the where are
Speaker 1: these snaps coming from? You're taking somebody off the field,
Speaker 1: whether it's Jawan Bentley, whether it's Adrian Phillips.
Speaker 2: Okay, but who But let me bring it home. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he already took somebody off the field, Devin mccordy. He retired, Okay,
Speaker 2: So somebody is gonna have to play Devin McCarty's responsibilities.
Speaker 2: The guy that I think is best suited to do it.
Speaker 1: Is Kyle Duggar right, okay.
Speaker 2: Because he played free safety in college. Yeah, he's got
Speaker 2: the range, he's got the physicality, and he's got the
Speaker 2: instincts like he's a ballhawker, that's right. As much as
Speaker 2: he might give up plays at times, he bakes them. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I think Kyle Duger, Like I said earlier, I
Speaker 2: don't want Kyle Dugger to play Devin McCarty's role one
Speaker 2: hundred percent of the tight. I still think that he's
Speaker 2: so impactful in the box that they need to leave
Speaker 2: him some freedom to play in the box.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, let me take Okay, it's another way though,
Speaker 1: What if Jalen Mills is the free safety, Because it
Speaker 1: sounds like that could happen.
Speaker 2: I think Jalen Mills. So now we're really going down
Speaker 2: in the rabbit hole. I like this. No, this what
Speaker 2: we do Jalen Mills, Yeah, is covering tight ends. Kyle
Speaker 2: Duggar is Devin McCarty. He's gonna play free safety and
Speaker 2: then sometimes rotate into the box because he's so good there.
Speaker 2: Jalen Mills to me, they look at him, They look
Speaker 2: at him and say, probably too slow to play outside corner. Right,
Speaker 2: he can't keep up with receivers, so but he can play.
Speaker 2: And man, so what do you do? You have n't
Speaker 2: covered slower guys.
Speaker 1: Okay, but so now you're taken. Devin McCarty's off, yep.
Speaker 1: But Jalen Mills still on the field, old because he
Speaker 1: was on the field last year. You're keeping Kyle Dugger
Speaker 1: on the field. Also added Christian Gonzales to play outside corn,
Speaker 1: play outside corner. You know, where's Marcus Jones. There's Jonathan
Speaker 1: Jones and.
Speaker 2: Arcus Jones in the slot. Okay, Jonathan Jones is your
Speaker 2: field corner.
Speaker 1: Jack Jones. We're not including Jack Jones? Just fine. I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm with you on that. But all right,
Speaker 1: so where are the snaps? Where is the role form?
Speaker 1: Marte map? So all right, so Kyle goes to Marty,
Speaker 1: Kyle Dugger goes to deep safety, and Marte mop who
Speaker 1: takes some of the responsibilities Kyle Dugger.
Speaker 2: So Marty mapoo to me and they're let.
Speaker 1: Me Okay, I think this is what I've been trying
Speaker 1: to ask. I couldn't figure it out. Are you just
Speaker 1: essentially a racing not a racing? But when Kyle Duger
Speaker 1: plays deep safety, are you just getting rid of the
Speaker 1: role he has and you have Marte mop who doing
Speaker 1: similar things but in a differently defined role.
Speaker 2: For the most part. Okay, I think that's the easiest
Speaker 2: way to put it. I think the other guy that
Speaker 2: kind of is the odd man out ends up being
Speaker 2: here as jolani.
Speaker 1: As you're strong side edge set. Well, you know what
Speaker 1: that that's a perfect transition because if you're not gonna
Speaker 1: get that from the linebacker position, you got a defensive
Speaker 1: end who does that version. Boom ie, Wow, holy crap, we.
Speaker 2: Just did that.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: See thank you. Now you're speaking my language, which brings
Speaker 2: us to the second round pick in the Patriots.
Speaker 1: So now we're you're going full circle. So now we're
Speaker 1: going I guess it's not three four to four three,
Speaker 1: but now we're taking a linebacker, we're taking a linebacker off,
Speaker 1: putting a hybrid linebacker safety on, and adding a defensive end,
Speaker 1: adding a hybrid defensive hybrid defense. He's a defensive end.
Speaker 2: I I so he's a five technique.
Speaker 1: He's a five tech.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you think he's gonna play standing up?
Speaker 2: Maybe okay in some fronts because if he's playing stand
Speaker 2: up over the tight end right on the strong side
Speaker 2: of the formation, I'm so glad we got this full circle. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then I think that he look the commine says he
Speaker 2: can do it. Right, guy ran like a four.
Speaker 1: On the back. I think it was thirty one.
Speaker 2: I'm not the biggest key on White Fan. I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna put that out there. And the reason why I
Speaker 2: was not the biggest key on White Fan is because
Speaker 2: I personally feel like he just doesn't have that like
Speaker 2: first step Josh off the ball explosiveness as I have
Speaker 2: to do. And as I am doing talking myself into
Speaker 2: everything over here, I am recognizing that I was thinking
Speaker 2: about it wrong. I was thinking about, how can this
Speaker 2: player help them rush the passer? How can this player
Speaker 2: be a double digit sack guy for them? And not
Speaker 2: know he's the strong side edge ctter.
Speaker 1: So my comp for him, let me tell you tell anything,
Speaker 1: Trey Flowers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that's not a bad I mean,
Speaker 2: if he liked maxim I think ideally you know a
Speaker 2: lot of people that that have studied Keon White, I
Speaker 2: have said as a pass rusher, he's probably better as
Speaker 2: like a three technique or an inside.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. If he passed strushes, I think it's
Speaker 1: gonna be from the interior, like him next to bar
Speaker 1: More on that interior rush, right.
Speaker 2: But I think in their base nickel or base big
Speaker 2: dime defenses, he's gonna be your strong side edge center.
Speaker 1: So here's why I like Keon White, and I'm with
Speaker 1: you on that. I think on early downs he's he's
Speaker 1: setting that edge, and then on passing downs you either
Speaker 1: have him on the edge, not as a pass rusher,
Speaker 1: but like just hold that edge. Don't let the quarterback
Speaker 1: get outside you, right, just keep the edge of that
Speaker 1: pocket tight.
Speaker 2: But that's exactly who what his skill said.
Speaker 1: I think that as he grows, there's the potential to
Speaker 1: kick him inside as a rusher, and just his athleticism
Speaker 1: in his motor next to Christian bar More in his
Speaker 1: motor would be a lot for teams handle now that's
Speaker 1: in step two. That's year two or year three right
Speaker 1: right now. The reason I like Keon White, and I've
Speaker 1: said this about some of the other players they've drafted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: six ' five, two eighty three. They have him as
Speaker 1: the the composite athletic grade that they give based on
Speaker 1: all combine testing. He ranked fourth among edge rushers. Really
Speaker 1: like upper echeline. He's very wrong, he admitted on the call.
Speaker 1: He's like, you admit on the call that night. My
Speaker 1: technique needs to be better. He's only been playing defensive
Speaker 1: end for three years. He was a tight end at
Speaker 1: Old Dominion, played tight end there for one year, moved
Speaker 1: to defensive end, played there another year at defensive end,
Speaker 1: sat out the COVID year, transferred to Georgia Tech, played
Speaker 1: as a reserve defensive end two years ago, and then
Speaker 1: last year had the breakout year. When I look at
Speaker 1: a guy like that and people go, oh, why did
Speaker 1: they get a guy that like can't play the position.
Speaker 1: There are guys who've been playing defensive end their entire lives.
Speaker 1: He's been doing it three years and he still got
Speaker 1: drafted ahead of a lot of them. The progress he's
Speaker 1: made in three years. This is a guy that, in
Speaker 1: everything he said about the work ethic and all that,
Speaker 1: clearly a quick learner guy that's going to pick things up.
Speaker 1: He checks every single box of the things he can't coach.
Speaker 1: They just got to get him in the lab with
Speaker 1: Joe kim basically.
Speaker 2: And if they do that and and and Covington.
Speaker 1: And DeMarcus Covington as well, well, I'm because I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of like the hands Joe Kim, al.
Speaker 2: He's got it. He has right now. Kean White has
Speaker 2: no pass rush plan, No, he has none. He just
Speaker 2: he's just gonna come off the ball. He's gonna put
Speaker 2: his big mits into you and he's gonna try to
Speaker 2: push you.
Speaker 1: He wins purely power. That's what he does. But that's it.
Speaker 1: He has all of the tools to become a guy
Speaker 1: who can be a problem off the edge. It's just
Speaker 1: getting him there. Like you said, Demarkt, this is a
Speaker 1: bet on DeMarcus Covington. That's what this pick is. And
Speaker 1: it's it's a guy I bet on, certainly. But again
Speaker 1: I give the Trey Flowers comp Like I think worst
Speaker 1: case scenario, key On White is big enough and strong
Speaker 1: enough that He's gonna set the edge in the run
Speaker 1: game and maybe against mobile quarterbacks, help keep them in
Speaker 1: the pocket. It's baseline. Which second round pick for a
Speaker 1: guy like that, I don't know, but like that's a
Speaker 1: useful player.
Speaker 2: It's a useful player, especially if they're going in the
Speaker 2: direction I think they're going in.
Speaker 1: But then to build, like why I'm excited about Kean White?
Speaker 1: When you texted me the night of the draft, you
Speaker 1: hated it? Yep, you weren't you based? Tell me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. You weren't looking at the ceiling. You saw
Speaker 1: him for who he is, not who he can be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely was looking at what his film was now.
Speaker 2: And I would also just say I was thinking, like
Speaker 2: I tried to get at earlier. I was thinking, like
Speaker 2: where is where's the explosiveness off the line, Like how
Speaker 2: does when josh u j is not here in a year, right,
Speaker 2: how does this help them replace josh U?
Speaker 1: I think you were about that in here.
Speaker 2: And I also just think I was thinking about it wrong.
Speaker 1: No, he's not. And that's the thing. He's that in
Speaker 1: a way. That was my initial instinct, And he's a
Speaker 1: josh u Ja replacement if anything, And it's still not
Speaker 1: a one for one. It's Anthony Jennings replacement. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: on that side.
Speaker 2: He's a probably more naturally a hand in the dirt player, yeah,
Speaker 2: than a stand up guy. But he's a more athletic,
Speaker 2: more hopefully more explosive, more upside all those types of things.
Speaker 2: But what he can do right now for them, yeah,
Speaker 2: is hold up the strong side, right, hold up blockers.
Speaker 1: And there's not gonna be many guys that can just
Speaker 1: outpower them, right.
Speaker 2: So you're gonna have you know, just in theory, you're
Speaker 2: gonna have probably the Joneses to his side, right, because
Speaker 2: the tight end will be over there. You'll probably have
Speaker 2: the Joneses to his side. You're gonna have somebody whether
Speaker 2: it's Dugger or Jalen Mills or whoever, playing that tight
Speaker 2: end stopper type role. You have Bentley as the mic,
Speaker 2: You're gonna have Mapu on the weak side, and you're
Speaker 2: gonna have Judon as the weak side edge rusher, right
Speaker 2: because he's gonna away from the tight end. And just
Speaker 2: let jus you have any napkins over there with your
Speaker 2: sandwich or something I can write on No, Ju Judon's
Speaker 2: roles was and then obviously Christian Zales on the boundary
Speaker 2: against the X. What excites me the most about this
Speaker 2: is one it becomes more dynamic of the second level,
Speaker 2: which I think, which is what I was getting out
Speaker 2: with the whole map. Who thing if free Judon is
Speaker 2: now gonna have like fifteen sacks again next year because
Speaker 2: he's not gonna have any double teams or anything like
Speaker 2: that on early downs, He's just gonna They're gonna allow
Speaker 2: you On to just tee off right because he's not
Speaker 2: gonna have a lot of those edge responsibilities. And I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to pick on anybody, but it gets the
Speaker 2: Jilani to Viz and the Jwan Bentley's more in it
Speaker 2: either a natural spot or just less playing time, quite frankly,
Speaker 2: and I just think that that's where they need to get.
Speaker 2: And I put all these pieces together, and I think
Speaker 2: the two the two biggest things. If Marty Mapu can't
Speaker 2: do it, if he's not an NFL player, he doesn't
Speaker 2: want to pick doesn't pan out. I do think that
Speaker 2: they could probably accomplish some of the same things with
Speaker 2: an Adrian Phillips, which cut with a Kyle Duggar, even
Speaker 2: with the Jabiel Peppers right that that he can do.
Speaker 2: So if he can't do it, then then we have
Speaker 2: some alternatives. If this really has the potential to be
Speaker 2: like the best defense in the league on paper, just
Speaker 2: the way we just mapped it out, if Christian Gonzalez
Speaker 2: is as good as we think he is, right, because
Speaker 2: Christian Gonzalez is going to have no help over there, Like.
Speaker 1: The idea is you're you're playing ten on ten.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Christian Gonzalez is going to be on the backside
Speaker 2: on the boundary against the X receiver. He's probably gonna
Speaker 2: have post safety help in the middle of the field.
Speaker 2: And that's about it.
Speaker 1: Give it pece of paper.
Speaker 2: Let's let's chart this sun that's an actual piece. Well,
Speaker 2: we'll do this later so that that's where I'm at
Speaker 2: with this defense. That's why I just really got me.
Speaker 2: Once I connected all this in my head, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, this could be really great. But it's
Speaker 2: a draft, so all these all these guys got to
Speaker 2: pan out right. But I think the beauty is is
Speaker 2: that Christian Gonzales and theory has that ability. And Keon White,
Speaker 2: I think personally his floor is already what I'm trying
Speaker 2: to describe. And obviously the pass rush upside that becomes gravy,
Speaker 2: Like if he can do any of those things and
Speaker 2: that becomes great, I think. But at the bottom line
Speaker 2: is is that he can be that strong side edge player,
Speaker 2: and whether it's in a in a tilt, whether it's
Speaker 2: like a four to three, whether it's you know, they
Speaker 2: play that that role at three four where they have
Speaker 2: the stand up linebacker kind of as the fourth defensive
Speaker 2: end on the field. Like, however, they can figure it
Speaker 2: from an alignment standpoint, I don't think it's really that
Speaker 2: to me is semantics, Like they'll figure that piece of
Speaker 2: it out and.
Speaker 1: They'll probably do a little bit of all ultimately.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I really think that that's sort of the
Speaker 2: bottom line of where they're going with this defense. And
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, like that gets me a little
Speaker 2: bit hot in bottle. So that's one of that thing
Speaker 2: real potential.
Speaker 1: That's one other thing i'd add. And yeah, I like
Speaker 1: the way you kind of mapped it out there, And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think key On White takes Anthony Jennings and or
Speaker 1: Cheloni to buy off the field. Yeah, this defense is
Speaker 1: going to be complex. This is not going to be
Speaker 1: a simple never was going to be you know, all
Speaker 1: right man cover two, Cover three, you know, buzz, there
Speaker 1: is going to be layers to this, and we saw
Speaker 1: them do it late last year. Kind of get to
Speaker 1: some of that. Remember we were talking about how they
Speaker 1: were kind of Joe burrowt some trouble with it, Josh
Speaker 1: Allen had some trouble with it. It feels like they
Speaker 1: saw that and said, all right, how can we add
Speaker 1: even more layers to this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think the most important thing is that
Speaker 2: you got the key on white piece of it is
Speaker 2: important because you're you're gonna have to stop the run
Speaker 2: with five guys. Yeah, because Mapu will help if he
Speaker 2: if he hits a ceiling, like, he'll definitely help. But
Speaker 2: he's he's he's a downhill trigger type player, right, so
Speaker 2: if he sees it and he can fire downhill into
Speaker 2: the gap and blow the guy up on the way
Speaker 2: to the ball, he can do those types of things,
Speaker 2: but he's gonna get engulfed, like, you have to keep
Speaker 2: him clean and so kean White, Christian Barmore, probably Godshaw,
Speaker 2: probably Dietrich Wise rotating in as well. Those guys are
Speaker 2: gonna have to do their their jobs of keeping of
Speaker 2: keeping things clean up front like that, those guys gonna
Speaker 2: have to take on blocks. They're gonna have to eat
Speaker 2: up blockers, they're gonna have to occupy, and they're gonna
Speaker 2: have to let the safeties and Mapu just run right.
Speaker 2: And that to me is is that's the roadmap to
Speaker 2: beat Josh Allen. And I think that more than anything
Speaker 2: we talked about Patrick Mahomes, I mentioned Jalen Hurts. Just
Speaker 2: because the Eagles are on the schedule, the Patriots had
Speaker 2: to have gone into this draft thinking, if we don't
Speaker 2: compete better against Buffalo, then we're screwed. We're screwed. We're
Speaker 2: not gonna win the division. So they got their number
Speaker 2: one corner. They they got the missing pieces, I think,
Speaker 2: to the front seven. And now they have on paper,
Speaker 2: if the philosophical change and all that argument that we
Speaker 2: were talking, if they're willing to do all that, then
Speaker 2: they have on paper a way to better defend Josh Allen.
Speaker 2: And ultimately that's the name of the game right.
Speaker 1: Now, not just shush that just the mobile quarterbacks. You
Speaker 1: don't have to make it about him, the mobile, make
Speaker 1: it about made anybody. I made it about him, just
Speaker 1: and I tried to to as long as I could
Speaker 1: ignore that it's it is about him, No, it's about
Speaker 1: the kinds of quarterbacks that are coming into this league. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's not just him.
Speaker 2: But he's in your division. They're not doing this is
Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers. They're not doing this for Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers runs around a lot, not in the same way,
Speaker 1: but he does.
Speaker 2: I think they you know, they look at those games.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously the first one against Buffalo. They let's
Speaker 2: face it, they got blowed out in that game, but
Speaker 2: that was a lot of that was because the offense.
Speaker 2: That was sort of the tipping point and the boiling
Speaker 2: over point for the offense. But even the game in Buffalo,
Speaker 2: and I don't totally disagree, but even the game in Buffalo,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, a lot of people make that out like, oh,
Speaker 2: nahem Heines doesn't return those if Deem Heins doesn't return
Speaker 2: those kicks, and Josh Allen has two more possessions and
Speaker 2: who knows what he does with them? Right Like he
Speaker 2: could go mar March right down the field and score
Speaker 2: both times too. And the bottom line is in the
Speaker 2: second half, they couldn't stop him. They couldn't stop him.
Speaker 2: So a lot of this stuff I think is is
Speaker 2: really exciting, and you know the piece of it. I
Speaker 2: would just say not to not to scapegoat them or
Speaker 2: not to you know, let them off the hook, I
Speaker 2: guess is a better way to put it. Not to
Speaker 2: let them off the hook for not going after more
Speaker 2: skilled players in this draft. But I do recognize that
Speaker 2: maybe they couldn't do it all in this draft, and
Speaker 2: now they kind of have the defense figured out and
Speaker 2: maybe twenty twenty four is the year that they worry
Speaker 2: about the offense. I do think that that recognizes as well,
Speaker 2: Let's see how Mac rebounds and let's see what what
Speaker 2: Bill Brian does with him, and then maybe invest more
Speaker 2: in the offense. So there you go. We just mapped
Speaker 2: out the defense.
Speaker 1: Yep, I special teams.
Speaker 2: We'd have to do specialties. We also have some calls
Speaker 2: callscreen light lit up after we got down this this
Speaker 2: rabbit hole of of these defense. So let's let's take
Speaker 2: these calls real quick and then I'll let you go
Speaker 2: off about a specialists. All right, all right, Raj? Thanks?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he was on hold for like forty minutes.
Speaker 2: That's our fault. What's up? Noah? How you doing they good.
Speaker 7: I was wondering if you guys would consider doing your
Speaker 7: own redraft where you kind of take the picks that
Speaker 7: they had and say who you would pick at those picks,
Speaker 7: and then I of them, maybe like a year from now,
Speaker 7: revisit and see how you guys did compared to Bill.
Speaker 7: I don't know if that's something you're allowed to do
Speaker 7: or not, but just how to throw.
Speaker 5: It out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be fun. Thanks Noah for the call.
Speaker 2: I guess now that we have the hindsight of knowing
Speaker 2: how everybody comes off the board on the board who
Speaker 2: is on the board, is have like a mock draft
Speaker 2: where we're just kind of guessing who was on the board.
Speaker 2: That might be a fun, like once it really dies
Speaker 2: down here, a little bit off season thing, but the
Speaker 2: next couple of weeks we got media availabilities. Ota is
Speaker 2: coming up. But yeah, I like the idea we could
Speaker 2: we could maybe try to do something like that. All right, Todd,
Speaker 2: what's up?
Speaker 4: Hey, Mike? Is a little bit where he went over
Speaker 4: each player group and kive whether it stayed the same,
Speaker 4: got better or worse. I like you guys to do that.
Speaker 4: And one of the things that shocked me was he
Speaker 4: kind of thought that the running back group got worse.
Speaker 5: And I really.
Speaker 4: Don't see much change in the running back We still
Speaker 4: have Romandre and our guy that was supposed to be
Speaker 4: our third down receiving guy is gonna come off of
Speaker 4: the injury list that we got him there too. So anyway,
Speaker 4: I think that would be an interesting thing to do,
Speaker 4: just go over the groups like he did and say
Speaker 4: whether it's the same, better or worse.
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, Thanks tod.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll do that real quick.
Speaker 2: I like that. Maybe do that next week next week?
Speaker 2: All right, we save that for next week because we're
Speaker 2: running out of time and that we know we're gonna
Speaker 2: take two hours to do that, so let's do that
Speaker 2: next week. I love that idea. And now we're starting
Speaker 2: to get into like some of the real offseason shows,
Speaker 2: so begin to have something like that to do. Give
Speaker 2: me your takes on the specialists.
Speaker 1: So I think they did well in terms of trading
Speaker 1: up for Chad Ryland and taking where they did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they played the game. The Niners took Jake Moody ninety nine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: kickers are going. It's like in your fantasy football draft, right,
Speaker 1: nobody want to take a defense high, but one person's
Speaker 1: going to and then everybody has to start taking defenses
Speaker 1: because they're going. So I don't think they took Chad
Speaker 1: Ryland too high. Love his background, five year starter, four
Speaker 1: years at Eastern Michigan, you Splinty Michigan. The conditions are
Speaker 1: not ideal for kicking. Not great at Maryland either. You know,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have the biggest leg in the draft. And look,
Speaker 1: I think they probably would have liked Dev Moody. He
Speaker 1: might have gone higher than they expected. But the thing
Speaker 1: about Ryland, he's really good from forty nine and in.
Speaker 1: He's one of these guys. When I say the intermediate,
Speaker 1: I don't mean he's bad in the short game, but
Speaker 1: nobody really care. Like, yeah, of course he's good from
Speaker 1: nineteen to thirty yards. Everybody's good from nineteen to thirty yards.
Speaker 1: He's a guy that.
Speaker 2: He's not gonna say it. Another kicker they drafted was
Speaker 2: not good anyware fair.
Speaker 1: Look, he's maybe not as good from fifty plus as
Speaker 1: some other kickers in this draft, but his like thirty
Speaker 1: to forty nine is impeccable. And for people who want
Speaker 1: them to be more aggressive on offense, that might be
Speaker 1: a sign that they're not as worried about kicking fifty
Speaker 1: yard field goals because they're gonna go for it in
Speaker 1: those situations, right, I hope. So I like that pick
Speaker 1: Bryce Berenger. I thought they would like I like I
Speaker 1: thought they would like Corsic. There were three good punters
Speaker 1: in this draft. They end up with the consensus all
Speaker 1: American and Bearrenger, big leg. He's one of these super
Speaker 1: mathy kickers where like he goes into the launch angle
Speaker 1: and the exit veilosophy of velocity. Yeah, and the the
Speaker 1: rotations per minute.
Speaker 2: And things like that.
Speaker 1: Well, Jake Bailey did that.
Speaker 2: My guess is that he won't go into that type
Speaker 2: of stuff with the media.
Speaker 1: So no, no, well, I don't think I'm gonna try.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask about it.
Speaker 2: I don't know how public that's really gonna get, but yeah,
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 1: Look, I think he's he's a good player. He's got
Speaker 1: a big leg too. They like punters like that, and
Speaker 1: then even going down to a mere speed might be
Speaker 1: able to play some corner in the NFL. He transferred
Speaker 1: from Georgia, and I don't fault guys for not getting
Speaker 1: on the field at Georgia because it's Georgia Yea had
Speaker 1: a decent year Michigan State last year. But he's like
Speaker 1: a He's gonna be an excellent special teams coverage guy.
Speaker 1: Isaiah Bolden, He's listed a corner if he's gonna play
Speaker 1: on defense. Actually think he might be a safety. But
Speaker 1: is another guy that's going to be a standout checks
Speaker 1: all the box on special teams some of the other
Speaker 1: guys they drafted. I don't I know, you don't want
Speaker 1: to hear this. Marte Maphu. Look, whatever they end up
Speaker 1: having him do on defense, he's gonna play special teams
Speaker 1: and he's going to be very good at.
Speaker 2: So Marii Mapu. If he doesn't pan out on defense
Speaker 2: at the very least, will be a great so.
Speaker 1: My floor for him, and this is the absolute floor.
Speaker 1: This is the worst case scenario. Is Nate Ebner. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Nate Ebner was an amazing special teams I know nobody
Speaker 1: wants him to be that guy. But you get what
Speaker 1: I'm saying.
Speaker 2: You're lucky that the other people aren't in this room
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: They would have lost.
Speaker 2: I know that's what I mean. I want to put
Speaker 2: words in his mouth, But Paul thinks he's basically going
Speaker 2: to be a special team.
Speaker 1: You get my point, Thoughe, but look, they they revamped
Speaker 1: the special teams unit, which needed to be revamped. So
Speaker 1: to that extent, I think they did. They did well.
Speaker 1: Do we have to wrap it up right now because
Speaker 1: the two thoughts on the UDF phase.
Speaker 2: Uh No, But I have one question for you. Uh
Speaker 2: does Ryland And I know you s yeah, but I
Speaker 2: know you said the fifty. I think the biggest thing
Speaker 2: with ry with with Folk last year. Yeah, like he
Speaker 2: just at the end of the season, his theleg was
Speaker 2: just dead, right, Like does Ryland? Is Ryland more of
Speaker 2: a weapon? Like I'm not saying he's justin Tucker, but like,
Speaker 2: is he is he more of that? Like you know,
Speaker 2: once he crossed the fifty, like, you have a pretty
Speaker 2: good chance of kicking this ball through, especially in the weather, right,
Speaker 2: I think that's you know, we know he kicked at
Speaker 2: Maryland and was I think he was at Eastern.
Speaker 1: Michigan, Michigan for four years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's kicking the weather. I'm not worried about that.
Speaker 2: But more what I'm worried about is range and and
Speaker 2: just does he have that ability to be a weapon
Speaker 2: where you know, three seconds left in the game and
Speaker 2: you got as far as you could. But here, you know,
Speaker 2: you're trying to line up for the field goal. It's
Speaker 2: fifty four or fifty three yards out? Like is he
Speaker 2: that type of guy?
Speaker 1: So he has and I'm trying to add up the
Speaker 1: total total number here, Uh he hang on twenty six
Speaker 1: thirty six or seven three three, nine four nine, fifty
Speaker 1: nine fifty two two six is forty six forty five?
Speaker 2: All right, so he has fortieth on your home Yes.
Speaker 1: I know he has forty one attempts from forty nine
Speaker 1: yards and then in the last three years, forty nine
Speaker 1: attempts he hit forty seven of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's money.
Speaker 1: So he's that's it. Like he's not. But if it's
Speaker 1: a thing where like do we try the fifty three
Speaker 1: yard field goal or do we try to run one
Speaker 1: more play you might lean towards running one more playoff
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't have the biggest like, but when you
Speaker 1: get in his range, you're gonna feel pretty good about it.
Speaker 1: Like you're not what once you're within range, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna sweat it. Like there's some guys in the draft
Speaker 1: so and other people kicker people liked was Jack Pizlusny
Speaker 1: from Georgia. In this class, Jack Plusney can hit a
Speaker 1: fifty five to fifty six yard field goal, but you
Speaker 1: not all the time, but like he can.
Speaker 2: Do it, he's inconsistent.
Speaker 1: But right forty five is gonna feel like fifty five.
Speaker 1: They feel kind of the same. You're gonna feel really
Speaker 1: good about Chad rolland from forty five. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: feel great at fifty five. But again, I don't think
Speaker 1: they care. I think they're more interested in, well, let's
Speaker 1: get in his range. Then that's basically what they've been
Speaker 1: with Nick fo exactly exactly. It's the same philosophy behind
Speaker 1: Nick Fole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just one last thing. These two guys were
Speaker 2: at the Senior Bowl together. Yes, and there are some
Speaker 2: pictures out there of Barringer holding for Ryland I. One
Speaker 2: of the things that I didn't really recognize until I
Speaker 2: started covering the team. It's it's kind of interesting in
Speaker 2: a way, and this is like really niche So I
Speaker 2: don't think this is more of the U story, if anything,
Speaker 2: but those three guys the snapper, the holder, and the kicker,
Speaker 2: and that they end up being the long snapper, the punter,
Speaker 2: and the kicker. Obviously, those three guys are like the
Speaker 2: three amigos during the football season, Joe Cardona, Jake Bailey
Speaker 2: and Folk. Let's just say on the whole writer polarity.
Speaker 2: When those guys are like glued at the hip, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they go, They're like a little three musketeer. They go
Speaker 2: team within the team, they go everywhere together. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so I think that that's gonna go.
Speaker 1: When I covered college football, there was a joke that
Speaker 1: when the punter and long snapper went out for punts,
Speaker 1: the kicker got lonely.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess here they have Matthew Matthew Slater's
Speaker 1: kind of an area call keep Ryland company.
Speaker 2: But that's gonna be the interesting thing I think is
Speaker 2: that whole for the most part, that that whole operation
Speaker 2: has been pretty clean. Yeah, and it'll be interesting to
Speaker 2: see now that it changes pretty dramatically. It's two thirds,
Speaker 2: yeah that you know how that all goes. And plus
Speaker 2: if it's two rookies, right, you know how that all goes.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: The fact they've worked even if it's a little bit,
Speaker 1: and they it sounded like they worked together a little
Speaker 1: bit before the Senior Bowl as well. The kicking camps
Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, there's value in that, and and I
Speaker 1: don't know that there's like long term value in that.
Speaker 1: But you mentioned the last kicker they drafted. He had
Speaker 1: an adjustment period, and that could have been any number
Speaker 1: of things. But a lot of the times for young kickers,
Speaker 1: you know, you got to you got to tell the
Speaker 1: holder exactly how you want the ball. And by the way,
Speaker 1: it's not I want the ball like this, it's on
Speaker 1: this hash from this yardage. I want it like this,
Speaker 1: on this hash from this yardage like this. When it's windy,
Speaker 1: I want it like that. And then that turns into
Speaker 1: the holder then goes to the long snapper and says,
Speaker 1: all right, in this situation, put the ball here. In
Speaker 1: this situation, put the ball here, Snap it harder here,
Speaker 1: snap it softer there.
Speaker 2: So that's my guy. Joe Houston, Patriots assistant special team
Speaker 2: right coach tends to do a lot of that.
Speaker 1: So when you have two guys that already know, right,
Speaker 1: Bryce Berenger knows Chad Ryland wants the ball like this,
Speaker 1: like this, like this, that's a whole that's like they'll
Speaker 1: spend a week on that. That's probably this week it's
Speaker 1: the first week on the field. That's like a whole week.
Speaker 1: It's a whole big thing you just don't have to
Speaker 1: really do now. Joe Cardona still got to get on
Speaker 1: the same page with both of them, because it's the
Speaker 1: same for punters, Like, all right, if we're on this hash,
Speaker 1: I want to hear if we're trying to do this kick,
Speaker 1: I want to hear. But that you talk about hitting
Speaker 1: the ground rolling, making easy for a rookie. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that makes it really easy.
Speaker 2: Marian, did you expect to do ten minutes on the Kickers?
Speaker 2: He's totally tuned out. I love it absolutely, Kickers, I
Speaker 2: absolutely love it. All right, uh Udfa's you have one
Speaker 2: minute because I'm gonna kick us out if we if
Speaker 2: we don't rap soon, so, uh Malie Cunningham, I think
Speaker 2: is maybe we talk about him a little bit more
Speaker 2: in the next couple of weeks, once we get out
Speaker 2: there and see these guys in OTAs. But there's something
Speaker 2: there in terms of the athletic ability and the ball
Speaker 2: carrying skill. I don't know how they use it. I
Speaker 2: don't know if they use it. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it matters at all. I don't know if he's Jamar
Speaker 2: Smith or he's a real player, right, Like I I
Speaker 2: don't know, but the one thing I can say about
Speaker 2: Malie Cunningham is that it would be nice to have
Speaker 2: him around as a scout team quarterback. Like that's like
Speaker 2: the bottom base line is that when they play the
Speaker 2: quarter Jalen Hurts right when the Eagles are on the schedule.
Speaker 1: This is the guy you want. Marte Mapu chasing and
Speaker 1: proc yes so.
Speaker 2: And hopefully running right through him. No, just kidding, don't
Speaker 2: hit the quarterback.
Speaker 1: I look Cunningham. First of all, they didn't get Lamar Jackson,
Speaker 1: but they did get the guy that replaced him at Louisville.
Speaker 1: That's how long Elie Cunningham has been there. Experienced guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's different when he has the ball in his hands. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's one of these guys that just kind of like
Speaker 1: to Mario Douglas from Marcus Jones, he look different. The
Speaker 1: report from NFL dot Com that he's open to changing
Speaker 1: positions is fascinating to me because I've never seen the
Speaker 1: guy run around. I've never seen the guy runner out.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but like I just I want the
Speaker 1: ball in his hands. I want the ball in his
Speaker 1: hands out of it.
Speaker 2: I understand and that you and all of like dark
Speaker 2: Patriots Twitter, like the deep Patriots Twitter people, I feel
Speaker 2: in the same way. I just I would like the
Speaker 2: Patriots as as a team offensively to have receivers receive,
Speaker 2: and running backs run and tight ends catch and block.
Speaker 2: Like okay, oh my god, Like let's just use people
Speaker 2: where they're supposed to play, because we have good enough
Speaker 2: people that we don't need to make Malie Cunningham a thing.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, like, how long was Edelman's development? It's like
Speaker 1: three years? Yeah, right, Maybe it's not this year, but
Speaker 1: he's gonna stick around. Maybe it's just a scout team quarterback.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just.
Speaker 2: Something like the squad scout team quarterback and if they
Speaker 2: want to work out on the off on the side
Speaker 2: on receiving drills and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But I'll say is he's a very experienced guy. He's
Speaker 1: a highly intelligent guy. Yeah, he's different as a ball carrier.
Speaker 1: They did, let's not forget, they did try to do
Speaker 1: this last year. They signed to Eric King as u
Speaker 1: DFA who had played both his quarterback and receiver. He
Speaker 1: is better than Derek k Well, Derek King never got
Speaker 1: hurt and like didn't make it to the spring. I
Speaker 1: think they're they're gonna try him at something now. He
Speaker 1: did also play No, no, no, I want you to
Speaker 1: take that back right now. Don't get that's so insulting
Speaker 1: to Malie Cunningham. He is another Can we just have
Speaker 1: Danny is closer to me athletically that he is Timnner.
Speaker 2: You just have a team for once offensively, where putting
Speaker 2: Marcus Jones on offense isn't like the greatest thing. We
Speaker 2: just have guys that are just.
Speaker 1: Build it around him. I'm not saying build it around him.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's a thing. By the way, he
Speaker 1: played defensive back at a high level in high school too,
Speaker 1: So I.
Speaker 2: Don't know what so now So now he's Julianetel.
Speaker 1: No, he's no. I'm just saying they can put him.
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see him A bunch of we
Speaker 1: might not see it. Might be what they're doing. They
Speaker 1: were in the close practices. Yeah, quarterback, running back, receiver,
Speaker 1: defensive back, special teams. Like, my god, they're gonna try
Speaker 1: him everywhere because he's such a good athlete. He's so smart.
Speaker 2: I hear you.
Speaker 1: Why not.
Speaker 2: I don't. There is no reason to why not. I
Speaker 2: keep on going.
Speaker 1: You just hate fun and you don't want to talk about.
Speaker 2: Keep on going. Back to the same point of like,
Speaker 2: the Patriots need to get to a point where we're
Speaker 2: not counting on Malie.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're casually being something, but I'm not
Speaker 1: saying counting.
Speaker 2: They are not. Internally I doubt they are. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about and I'm sorry. I don't need to pick on
Speaker 2: the fans, but I'm talking like this is like Jeff
Speaker 2: Thomas to me.
Speaker 1: Right, Like it's like Jeff Thomas.
Speaker 2: No, No, Kashan but is better than Jeff Thomas.
Speaker 1: I know it's closer.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just like Kyshean. But is Malcolm Mitchell here?
Speaker 1: Listen, you don't need to get don't get your hopes
Speaker 1: of from Alie Cunningham, who knows what it becomes. But
Speaker 1: it's a really good signing.
Speaker 2: You're not gonna have to worry about me, I know.
Speaker 1: So you get a he's gonna win a Super Bowl MVP,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be sitting here saying I can't believe
Speaker 1: we had to spend that off season talking about him.
Speaker 2: Just again. Jalen had some.
Speaker 1: He's just a really smart, really athletic guy. The more
Speaker 1: of those guys you have around the building, the better.
Speaker 1: That being said, I do think they're gonna extend the
Speaker 1: udf A streak this year. I don't think it's gonna
Speaker 1: be him, because, like you said, I think he's a
Speaker 1: practice squad guy. Yeah, I think it's gonna be Johnny Lumpkin,
Speaker 1: the tight end. Yeah, six six, two sixty six athletic guy.
Speaker 1: Not really, I thought he was athletic. Has he has
Speaker 1: like fourteen career catches in three years. Yeah, doesn't mean alright,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a really good block he's big. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's big. Now, I think they might like Scotty Washington. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be the battle for the third tight end.
Speaker 2: But the battle Scotty Washington versus Camp Johnny Lumpkin. And again,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but like that sounds like a name that
Speaker 2: Bill makes up when he's like Johnny from Foxborough High
Speaker 2: can make this play. Sounds like the name Felger and
Speaker 2: Mass makeup. Yeah, or they got Johnny Lumpkin out there
Speaker 2: playing tight end. But no, he's a big guy. He's
Speaker 2: a blocker.
Speaker 1: You remember guy named Michael Williams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember Michael Williams.
Speaker 1: That's the cop to me. Mike always played tackle in
Speaker 1: Alabama's a tackle. I think Johnny Lumpket. They're gonna have
Speaker 1: him put on fifteen twenty pounds of muscle. They're gonna
Speaker 1: get him up to like two seventy two seventy five.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be the blocking half of Darnell Washington basically.
Speaker 2: Okay, look, if that's what he is, then they could
Speaker 2: use that player.
Speaker 1: He's gonna catch like ten passes his whole career. Remember,
Speaker 1: and look, they didn't use this player, right, But remember
Speaker 1: with Dwayne Allen.
Speaker 2: I've never on video for this episode because like the
Speaker 2: two of us are just laughing through this right now.
Speaker 1: Remember what Dwayne Allen was here, and I think they
Speaker 1: mis used Dwayne all But they threw him like ten
Speaker 1: passes the whole two years time.
Speaker 2: Just he'd be wide opening the flat and Brady just
Speaker 2: wouldn't even look at him.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna why, I'm gonna throw the ball
Speaker 1: to that guard? What do you want me to do?
Speaker 1: But you know, for what he was, he's actually bigger
Speaker 1: than I remember, six four to two sixty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was. He was like the block he got in.
Speaker 1: Two years here in uh twenty nine games, he was
Speaker 1: targeted twenty six times. Oh my god, that's just that's
Speaker 1: what Johnny Lumpkin is gonna be. Johnny love, but I
Speaker 1: actually like his chances to make the team.
Speaker 2: I do, all right, So there you have it that
Speaker 2: we went Johnny Lumpkin deep in this podcast. So that's
Speaker 2: how you know what you've been listening to Catch twenty two.
Speaker 2: Alex and I will be back next week. We're gonna
Speaker 2: do I love that idea from Todd to North Carolina.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna go through the whole roster, position by position,
Speaker 2: what got better, what got worse, Maybe talk about some
Speaker 2: of the fifty three man projections and roster battles that
Speaker 2: we're looking forward to, and not before long. I don't
Speaker 2: think we have an exact date yet of when media
Speaker 2: availability start.
Speaker 1: We don't know which ones we're gonna get.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we usually get like what three or four late,
Speaker 2: So we'll have plenty of content coming here on Patriots
Speaker 2: Catch twenty two. So keep it right here next Thursday,
Speaker 2: same time, same place. Thanks for listening for Alex Bartham,
Speaker 2: Evan Lazar We'll see you guys next week. Thank you
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