1
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.

2
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey, everyone,

3
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,720
Speaker 2: Lisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. Today, we're

4
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 2: continuing our conversation with actress Jenny Garth, shifting to another

5
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 2: remarkable true crime story, Left for Dead, the Ashley Reeves Story.

6
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 3: We'll talk about survival.

7
00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,720
Speaker 2: Victim blaming, resilience, and what it was like for Jenny

8
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 2: to portray the mother of a teenage girl whose life

9
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,760
Speaker 2: was changed forever by an unthinkable act of violence. So,

10
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 2: nearly three decades after Lies of the Heart, you returned

11
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 2: to true crime with Left for Dead the Ashley Reeves Story.

12
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 2: Ashley's story is almost impossible to believe. Also, she was

13
00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 2: seventeen years old, attacked by a popular teacher in her

14
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,600
Speaker 2: small town that she had gotten involved with, and he

15
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 2: left her foe dead in.

16
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 3: The woods for thirty hours.

17
00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 2: So many great men in so many of these movies,

18
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 2: like just stand up, gentlemen. Anyway, So you played Ashley's mom,

19
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 2: and as a mother of three daughters, did that story

20
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 2: did it make the story especially emotional for you?

21
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean that's the mom's greatest fear, that's my

22
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,759
Speaker 1: greatest fear that my children will be abducted or assaulted

23
00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 1: or worse. And it's something you never stop thinking of,

24
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,559
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, the minute your child's out of your sight,

25
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 1: especially when their you know, Ashley's age, and they're you know, separating,

26
00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 1: becoming more autonomous in their life. It's so hard. You

27
00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,680
Speaker 1: just have to like literally put that fear in a

28
00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 1: container in your mind and close the lid and just

29
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:09,160
Speaker 1: keep it there, because it does no good for you

30
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: to live with that worry and then, you know, or

31
00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 1: to project that fear into them, right, I projected just

32
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,080
Speaker 1: enough fear in my daughter's I think, maybe maybe on

33
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 1: the edge of too much, because yeah, there's crazy ass

34
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:25,959
Speaker 1: people out.

35
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 3: There, Listen.

36
00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,680
Speaker 2: I my daughter, Scarlet is newly fourteen, and that starts

37
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 2: like a whole new world, and I feel as though

38
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:42,080
Speaker 2: I am constantly on the precipice of wanting to like

39
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 2: never let.

40
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,320
Speaker 3: Her leave the house, which doesn't seem like a healthy

41
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 3: way to go.

42
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,360
Speaker 1: Well to that, I say, good luck.

43
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,640
Speaker 3: I know the next few years are going to be something.

44
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 1: Tell me if you need me, I will.

45
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 2: But so, one of the most chilling facts about this

46
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,720
Speaker 2: case is that her attacker, Sam Shelton, he wasn't a stranger.

47
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 3: He had been Ashley's teacher and coach and someone that

48
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,720
Speaker 3: she really looked up to. Like, the manipulation is so

49
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 3: specific and so.

50
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:23,519
Speaker 2: Disturbing, and does that make these sorts of crimes scarier

51
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 2: to you?

52
00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:25,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

53
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,079
Speaker 1: I think when the predator is a friend, you know,

54
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 1: a quote unquote friend, especially being a teacher and a coach.

55
00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,080
Speaker 1: I was just having a conversation with my niece who

56
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,000
Speaker 1: was an athlete, a swimmer, and she started to tell

57
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 1: me about her connection that she had with her coach,

58
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: and my brain instantly goes to, uhh, Like that is

59
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,360
Speaker 1: so messed up that I can't you know, my first

60
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 1: thought is, oh, that could be dangerous, right, And I

61
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: feel so badly for thinking that of her coach, who

62
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 1: actually helped her immensely in her own life. But it's

63
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 1: a shame that that connotation has been developed because of.

64
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean Larry Nasser. There are like many, many many,

65
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 2: I mean, he's a huge one, but it is right, Like,

66
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:22,279
Speaker 2: what's the balance between having that awareness, not becoming numb

67
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,560
Speaker 2: to it, and not going you know, too far overboard.

68
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 3: I there's no answer to that question, but I worry

69
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 3: about it.

70
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 1: I know, I always said to my girls, I want

71
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: you to have eyes in the back of your head.

72
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,480
Speaker 1: You need to really be aware of your surroundings at

73
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: all times and read the people, read the people that

74
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:44,080
Speaker 1: you're talking.

75
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:49,479
Speaker 2: To, right right, That's a really important thing skill to

76
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,960
Speaker 2: be able to develops.

77
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,720
Speaker 1: Not everybody can do it, like I mean, they're naive.

78
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,359
Speaker 1: They think the best of people. Of course they want

79
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 1: they think everybody's like them, you know, yes, yes, that's yeah.

80
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,600
Speaker 2: And when someone is flat flatters you and makes you

81
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,280
Speaker 2: feel special.

82
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 3: You know how he kept saying to her and to

83
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,720
Speaker 3: other victims of his you're special.

84
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,159
Speaker 2: You know you're different. That's who doesn't want to hear that.

85
00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 2: I want to hear that right now. And I'm fifty five.

86
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 1: You want me to groom you a little bit? Yeah, exactly,

87
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,840
Speaker 1: you are special? But I really actually mean it. Oh

88
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: my god, you're special.

89
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:28,760
Speaker 2: Thank you?

90
00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 3: I really am.

91
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 2: I am so he Okay, we're going to get into

92
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,839
Speaker 2: the unfortunate.

93
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,280
Speaker 3: Actual details of what happened here.

94
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 2: So she became involved with this gentleman, and then it

95
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:51,120
Speaker 2: is unclear whether she gets in the car with him,

96
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 2: and that at some point he doesn't.

97
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:55,839
Speaker 3: He tells her to get out of the car.

98
00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 2: She won't get out of the car because they're in

99
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,680
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere. He he kicks her out of

100
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 2: the car, drags her out of the car, accidentally quote

101
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 2: unquote strangles her, and then worries that he strangled her,

102
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 2: so drags her further into the woods and really strangles her,

103
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 2: puts a belt around her neck, steps on the belt,

104
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,360
Speaker 2: and kills her, or thinks he does, and leaves her there,

105
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,159
Speaker 2: then gets back in his car, goes home, and he

106
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:29,320
Speaker 2: goes line dancing.

107
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:38,280
Speaker 1: He's a monster, yeah, who deserves to pay for what

108
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,200
Speaker 1: he did, and that means being in jail. Do you

109
00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:49,720
Speaker 1: know the status of the guy? The Benjamin sam.

110
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,239
Speaker 2: So Sam Shelton was released on parole after serving seventeen years,

111
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,839
Speaker 2: which seems I don't know outreach.

112
00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 1: It does like that doesn't feel like enough time to no,

113
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know. I mean, I would hate to

114
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 1: be the person that's sentencing people and deciding how much

115
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 1: time is the right time right right? I don't know

116
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 1: that process, but it does feel short.

117
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,440
Speaker 2: They really one of the things in the film that

118
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,640
Speaker 2: they cover so well and you do so well, is

119
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 2: really that the uncertainty and the pain that the parent

120
00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 2: goes through and from that first thirty hours, So she

121
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 2: was missing for thirty hours, which that in and of

122
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 2: itself is the worst nightmare for mom.

123
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even want to think about it. But

124
00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 1: for her mom, man, it was you know, playing that

125
00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,840
Speaker 1: character was it was so easy for me to slip

126
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:04,720
Speaker 1: into that her mind. Sure, sure, and so it was

127
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: actually hard to slip out of her mind. When the

128
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 1: day was done, I go back to my real world

129
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 1: where I have children the same age ish, not yet quite,

130
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,840
Speaker 1: but it's it was tricky, It was hard. I think

131
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 1: this was harder, harder role to play than the Lori

132
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:29,960
Speaker 1: Kellogg one because I knew more, you know, yes, yes, right,

133
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:36,320
Speaker 1: mm hmm. And uh it's great supporting cast too on

134
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 1: that movie. But I just think, like, how's a girl

135
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 1: supposed to know that they're being groomed or talked in

136
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: that way?

137
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:50,320
Speaker 3: Right?

138
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 1: And they how they know? Oh wait, you're not. Actually

139
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 1: your motives are bad? Like how do you know?

140
00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:58,360
Speaker 3: Right?

141
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:04,280
Speaker 4: That is so and it's just so depressing to think

142
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 4: that that's how young women have to go through growing up,

143
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 4: you know, Like it's just heartbreaking.

144
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:22,120
Speaker 1: It makes me angry that young girls women have ever

145
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,719
Speaker 1: been treated poorly like that, like what the actual because.

146
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:45,360
Speaker 2: It's so wrong, it's so wrong, it's so wrong. So

147
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,120
Speaker 2: she was a seventeen year old girl, and yet some

148
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 2: people focused on her choices instead of the actions that

149
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 2: this twenty six year old teacher took who attacked her.

150
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,080
Speaker 2: So why do I think that victim blaming remains such

151
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,959
Speaker 2: a powerful force in cases like this?

152
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,199
Speaker 1: Well, if the if the person that's victim blaming has

153
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the care the person, the human,

154
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: the good person or the bad person, Like why why

155
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,560
Speaker 1: do you voice your opinion? What right do you have

156
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 1: to get involved?

157
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:22,640
Speaker 2: Right?

158
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,000
Speaker 1: And then the people that you know, I can certainly understand,

159
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:32,240
Speaker 1: like his family or his friends, or people that refuse

160
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 1: to believe it, would didn't want to believe it because

161
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 1: they loved him. I can understand how victim blaming comes

162
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 1: into play from their perspective. You know, you just don't

163
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: think that your son, this nice, handsome son of yours

164
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 1: that you've raised and you've seen him cry, and you

165
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 1: know you know him, you think you know him, you

166
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 1: think you know. You don't really know what's going on

167
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 1: inside anyone's head. So it's just so tricky because like

168
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,839
Speaker 1: if you think like if you put yourself in the

169
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 1: mother of Sam's, if you put her yourself in her shoes,

170
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 1: you're going to stand by your son most likely.

171
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,679
Speaker 2: I mean, so that's always a question. I just like,

172
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,600
Speaker 2: how what would I mean? I suppose it's impossible, but

173
00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 2: I would like to think if I mean, I can't say,

174
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:29,439
Speaker 2: I guess, but how?

175
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,240
Speaker 3: But would you stand by them?

176
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 2: Like that's the question if you drag someone like I can't.

177
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,560
Speaker 3: There are so many steps to this that are so severe.

178
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 2: How like like Scott Peterson's family sticking by him, They

179
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 2: still stick by him today. One of his sister in

180
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:52,440
Speaker 2: law became an attorney to try to understand and fight

181
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 2: his case. You know, it's it's it's wild.

182
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,839
Speaker 1: I mean, bloodlines are thick, that's what they say. Well

183
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,680
Speaker 1: it's yeaher than the water. But aah, I mean, if

184
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 1: I can put myself in the family's shoes, I would

185
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,360
Speaker 1: always have that in the back of my mind, like

186
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,480
Speaker 1: is he lying to my face? Did he really do this?

187
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 4: Right?

188
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 1: You will never know. So because you will never know,

189
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 1: you have to pick a side. I guess yeah, or

190
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,160
Speaker 1: because it's I mean, you can't. What do you how

191
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 1: do you stay neutral? How do you help anybody by

192
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,520
Speaker 1: staying neutral, right right, right?

193
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.

194
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 2: I feel like it's an impossible question to answer, and

195
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,839
Speaker 2: I hope I am never in the situation where I

196
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 2: have to on either side. But so one of the

197
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,600
Speaker 2: things that really stayed with me about this as well

198
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 2: is that you know, it's not only Ashley who's carrying

199
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 2: I mean this this girl was. I mean, she had

200
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 2: to relearn how to do everything. The injuries that she

201
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 2: had were so extreme physical and mental. Sh had learned

202
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,120
Speaker 2: how to speak again, how to learn how to write,

203
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 2: how to move her hands in any way, like, It's

204
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:18,320
Speaker 2: very extensive. And her mom, Michelle, also spent years like

205
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 2: wondering if she could have prevented this somehow, And I

206
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,720
Speaker 2: mean that's just heartbreaking for parents.

207
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,439
Speaker 1: It's like that inner turmoil that as a mom, if

208
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,719
Speaker 1: something bad happens to your kid, you're always going to

209
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 1: blame yourself. I think, like, what could I could I

210
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 1: have parented them differently, or prepared them better, or taught

211
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,760
Speaker 1: them how this could happen?

212
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 4: Right?

213
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 2: Right?

214
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 1: And I guess you have to, I mean, at some

215
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:57,320
Speaker 1: point heal enough to again put that in a box, right,

216
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,320
Speaker 1: honor it, but don't let it like lead you for

217
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:02,240
Speaker 1: the rest of your life.

218
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,439
Speaker 2: Right, Did any any of the scenes in particular stay

219
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 2: with you after you were done.

220
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 1: Filming the scene where they come into the hospital. There

221
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: was like a hallway scene. Oh, that that was really

222
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,240
Speaker 1: a difficult, like emotionally speaking scene.

223
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 2: Right when you're in the hallway and the I think

224
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 2: a policeman comes up and she's in the gurney maybe right,

225
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,840
Speaker 2: and you don't know really what's happening, but you know

226
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,680
Speaker 2: she's not well.

227
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that just putting yourself in those shoes,

228
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 1: catastrophic despair, you know. So yeah, I mean that was

229
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,840
Speaker 1: a scene also just seeing as the mom who doesn't

230
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 1: see this happened to her daughter who only can imagine it.

231
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,480
Speaker 1: Then still as the me, the human playing the mom,

232
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 1: it's seeing it happen, seeing her laying in the dirt,

233
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 1: seeing her being assaulted. That is so hard to watch

234
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,960
Speaker 1: the image of, you know, seeing something I didn't ever

235
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:23,640
Speaker 1: see before, right, right, hard to hard to not remember.

236
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, didn't making did the whole story change the way.

237
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,960
Speaker 3: You look at survival?

238
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean in the respect that she recovered, Yeah, because

239
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 1: imagine having to come back from that. She was a

240
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 1: true survivor because she was so strong and had made

241
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 1: a will to live and to flourish and have a life. Yeah,

242
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:05,160
Speaker 1: but it just makes me more fearful, honestly fearful of strangers,

243
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 1: not even strangers, but like people's intentions.

244
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 3: It makes me so angry.

245
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: I know, and I think as a human like, I'm

246
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,840
Speaker 1: much more like with everybody that I meet, I'm like great.

247
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you meet somebody and you're like, oh,

248
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,280
Speaker 1: this person's good, we see you know, we see eyed.

249
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 1: I trust this person almost immediately, I can tell, right.

250
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 1: But there's some people that you just keep them at

251
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: arms lengths long enough to really suss them out. You

252
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: got to give them some time to show their colors.

253
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, after making this film, did it change any of

254
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 2: the conversations that you had with your own daughters about trust, relationships,

255
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 2: personal safety.

256
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think just making them letting, you know, talking

257
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 1: to them about the storyline, what happened to this girl,

258
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:04,320
Speaker 1: this woman, young woman, It was enough for their eyes

259
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,400
Speaker 1: to be open to this is a real story. This

260
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: isn't just a script, right, And we had conversations around that,

261
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to put even more fear in them,

262
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 1: because you want there's a bounds. You want them to

263
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,479
Speaker 1: trust people, and you do want them to look at

264
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 1: other humans as if we're the same and we're all

265
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,360
Speaker 1: struggling with the same things and we all have love

266
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: in our hearts. But you know this is not the case. Unfortunately,

267
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: it's such.

268
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:34,920
Speaker 3: A hard thing.

269
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't teach. I've just always really focused on

270
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:46,360
Speaker 1: my girls having like an internal awareness and also being trusting.

271
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 1: But people have to earn their trust.

272
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 2: Right, that's a great right. Like, how do you even

273
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,960
Speaker 2: teach that? Well, first of all, how do you get

274
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 2: them to listen to you when they're fourteen.

275
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,320
Speaker 1: And not like their eyes? And let her watch this movie.

276
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 3: I'll let her watch this movie and then we'll have

277
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 3: another conversation.

278
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 2: So Ashley was, as we said, just seventeen years old

279
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 2: when she was attacked, and Laurie Kellogg was only sixteen

280
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 2: when she first got involved with a much older man.

281
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 2: So looking back now, do you ever think about, I mean,

282
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:46,120
Speaker 2: how young they both were and how that just immeasurably

283
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 2: changed their lives instantly at such a young age.

284
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 1: I think, Thank god we as humans have resilience, you

285
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: know too. Yeah, it's terrible things and then work it

286
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 1: out enough to go on to live a life that

287
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:14,679
Speaker 1: fulfills them. I think, you know, telling that story of

288
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 1: a survivor, especially in Ashley's case, Telling the story of

289
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 1: a survivor gives you hope, And it does teach you

290
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,120
Speaker 1: to be more careful out there and to be more

291
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 1: aware of people's intentions. But it does give you hope

292
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,919
Speaker 1: at the end. I mean, she's gone on to have

293
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 1: a family of her own and live a beautiful life.

294
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 1: I you know, it's hard to imagine that, you know.

295
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: I asked this of Elizabeth Smart when I had her

296
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 1: on my podcast, like, how how do you sleep now

297
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 1: as a mom next to your children's bedroom and ever

298
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: sleep a wink? Like I would never be able to

299
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 1: release the fear of what happened to me could happen

300
00:19:59,480 --> 00:19:59,879
Speaker 1: to them.

301
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what does she say?

302
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: She said she doesn't sleep. She said, I don't. I'm

303
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 1: fearful all the time.

304
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:11,959
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

305
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 1: And that's words from a survivor's mouth, Like you are

306
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 1: changed forever, how you think, how you deal with scary

307
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 1: emotions and feelings of your like, it does. It changes you,

308
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: but then you have to figure out how to live

309
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 1: within that. You know, And She's a perfect example of

310
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,120
Speaker 1: someone who, like Ashley, went on to live a life

311
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: even though these terrible things happen to them. So it

312
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: gives you extraordinary like because you think, like when you

313
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: think about it, like I could never survive that I

314
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 1: would die, like it would be just so intense my

315
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 1: feelings or whatever. But you can. You can get through things, tough,

316
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: tough things.

317
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 2: I do think that something that we sometimes forget or

318
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,719
Speaker 2: that gets lost, you know when when we do, thankfully

319
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: hear that people get through something either you know, wrongfully

320
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 2: accused and they get out of jail or a horribly

321
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 2: abusive situation.

322
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 3: And they move forward have a life that they don't.

323
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 3: You don't leave it behind per.

324
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 2: Se, like they don't just be because you've come to

325
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: in the next place doesn't mean it didn't happen to you, Right.

326
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a key thing, Like you can

327
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: never do that, you can never get rid of it.

328
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 1: It happened. It's going to live inside you. Ever, it's

329
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: just a matter of like how do I live with

330
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: this inside of me? Like how can I still flourish?

331
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 1: But also just not turn you know, not try to

332
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 1: pretend that it didn't happen. Because I don't think you'll

333
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 1: ever heal if you're trying to pretend that something bad

334
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: didn't ever ever happen, like you. Hear so many stories

335
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: of a friend of mine like abused as a young

336
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 1: little girl and in her late thirties, that's when it's

337
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: coming up and it's wrecking her life because she never

338
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 1: dealt with it, right. So I think that's more that's

339
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: very common and people that have been victimized like that.

340
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 2: That's one of the things that has come up many

341
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: many times in doing this podcast is how I am

342
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 2: so moved and impressed by people that have been so deeply.

343
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 3: Hurt and abused.

344
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 2: And gone through such tragic things when they decide to

345
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: say I will keep going. And there is something that

346
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: that is a part of the human condition and the

347
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 2: human experience and being able to to not only overcome

348
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: and move through, but to share that these things can

349
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: happen and we can still have a full life with that.

350
00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 3: Like you don't. It doesn't go away and you can

351
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 3: put it aside, but it is a part.

352
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: Of your story, and I think that's it, the telling

353
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: of your story, even if you don't want to. I'm

354
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: sure in Elizabeth's case, like I don't want to relive that,

355
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: but she's out there actively speaking about what happened to

356
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: her in order to help other people. Yes, And I think,

357
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: you know, there's a heroism in that to a certain degree,

358
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: because that can't be fun for her to relive those

359
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: terrible memories. And it's just you know, you choose to

360
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: do in your life what you're drawn to, like what

361
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: you in your gut you know is right for you

362
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: to be passionate about or purposeful, you know. And I

363
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: think when something bad like that happens to you, you

364
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: can remain the victim and stay in that place for

365
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, or you can choose two

366
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: either let it go. That's not a magic wand or

367
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: use it to propel you. You know. Yeah, but you

368
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 1: can't pretend it didn't.

369
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: Happen, right well, think right well, I agree with you

370
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 2: one hundred percent on that account. And both of these

371
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 2: movies you did such beautiful work in and Q. I

372
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 2: do feel like it's such a gift when we get

373
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 2: to do something work wise in front of the camera

374
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: that is has a bigger purpose and I both of

375
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: these films certainly have that, So I think that's awesome.

376
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 2: And you did a beautiful job, and thanks for chatting

377
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 2: with me today, and do another one so then we

378
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: can have another.

379
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: Chat like this. I'll look for another true crime stress

380
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: out there, not only to do this podcast, but just

381
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: to play a real character. So it's fun. Is there

382
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: something super challenging and fulfilling about it as an actress

383
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: and also just purposeful because you want to tell their story? Well,

384
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: I hope they see it. I hope that they are,

385
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, just able to live beautiful lives now, hope,

386
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: so hope. So yeah, all.

387
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: Right, you're the best.

388
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 2: I love seeing your face, even if it's just on

389
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: the screen. So thank you, and I love chatting with you.

390
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: You're just the best.

391
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 2: Thank you.

392
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: I love you too.