WEBVTT - From the Vault: The Sacred Mountain, Part 1 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.039 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.120 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.240 Time to go into the Old Vault. This is for 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.799 an episode that published on April nineteen. This was part 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.400 one of our series on the Sacred Mountain. Oh yeah. 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.479 This is a really fun pair of episodes that we 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.640 did because we get into, of course, various global myths 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:32.040 and folk traditions concerning sacred high peaks, places where Heaven 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:36.360 touches the earth, where the gods dwell and strange entities 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.720 may may linger as well, uh, places where you might 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.199 go to uh on a quest to obtain some sort 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:44.600 of rare substance to put in your potion, that sort 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.159 of thing. But then also we get into like how 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.400 does this match up with you know, to to what 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.440 extent might we explain these phenomena by looking at the 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:59.000 way our bodies deal with very high altitudes. So it's 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.920 a pretty fun x floration. This is part one. Let's 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:07.320 dive in Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:16.240 production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey are 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:17.959 you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind? My name 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.920 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.839 are going to be discussing the sacred mountain. Of course, 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.959 there's not just one sacred mountain. There are many sacred mountains. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.000 In fact, you know, you're probably close to one right now, 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.080 because they're all over the world. We we discussed this 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.000 a little bit in our recent episode about pressure, where 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.360 we were talking about how how the atmosphere gets thinner, 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.319 of course as you go higher up, And one of 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.600 the things we started talking about was whether, you know, 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.640 whether that might have anything to do with the prevalence 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:53.160 of sacred or holy mountains in religious and cultural beliefs 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.200 all around the world, because once you start looking for them, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:00.680 they're everywhere and every continent, I guess maybe not some Chaantarctica, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:05.559 but every other continent. You know, they're they're mountain top monasteries, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.079 there are mountains that are believed to be homes of 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.679 the gods. There are mountains that are places of worship, 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.720 mountains that are places of sacrifice, mountains that are believed 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:19.000 to be forbidden or you know, otherwise magically you know, barred. Yeah, 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.040 and they really are in just about every culture. So 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.359 what we wanted to do in this pair of episodes 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.040 for stuff to pluy your mind is to really get 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.280 into the idea of the sacred mountain. So this first 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.919 episode is really going to be more about, first of all, 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.960 why do we have these different feelings about mountains? Why 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.480 do mountains invoke these different ideas and feelings in the 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.120 human mind. And then we're going to run through some 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.520 notable examples of sacred mountains. I have to did really 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.000 drive home that this will not be an exhaustive mention 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.560 of every sacred mountain tradition. I'm sure we're gonna leave 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.680 off some very good ones, uh, some very notable cultural examples. 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.560 We just can't cover them all, but we'll try and 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.760 cover enough of them to give you a nice grounding. 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.760 And then, of course, if you have a favorite sacred 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.880 mountains that you've visited or just read about, UH, you 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.440 can right into us and perhaps will share those in 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.680 the future listener Male episode. And then that second episode 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.120 that we're going to do about sacred mountains is going 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.200 to get more into the psychology and the neuroscience and 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:31.280 how and to what extent high altitude UH conditions could 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.960 contribute to this interpretation of the sacred and the holy 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.880 on mountains and on the tops of mountains, that's right. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.440 And though we are going to look all over the 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.280 world in various places today, I think one place I 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.680 wanted to start with is the mountain you might be 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.200 less familiar with in Greek religion. Oh yeah, because you're 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.160 probably instantly thinking, well, Mount Olympus, that's where the gods 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.400 are the gods, that's where they're plotting all of their 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:02.960 nefarious ends. But what about mount like aon home of 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.120 the holy werewolf for the not so the unholy werewolf, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.000 the sanctuary of Zeus, the birthplace of Zeus, and the 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:15.640 altar of blood sacrifice. Yeah, it invokes a number of 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.760 the different ideas we're gonna be discussing here. So we 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.520 wanted to read just a little bit from Pausanias is 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.000 a historian. He wrote description of Greece. Uh, and this 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.800 is from the second century c E. And this is 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.880 like section eight. This is another one of those old 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.240 texts you can find in full translated online that we're 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.279 just gonna read a couple of paragraphs from it. Okay, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.560 On the highest point of the mountain is a mound 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.280 of earth forming an altar of Zeus, like Chius and 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.800 from it, most of the Peloponneseis can be seen. Before 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.360 the altar on the east stand two pillars on which 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.640 there were of old gilded eagles. On this altar they 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.240 sacrifice in secret to like He and Zeus. I was 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:00.279 reluctant to pry into the details of the sacrific vice. 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.839 Let them be as they are, and we're from the beginning. 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.359 On the east side of the mountain, there is a 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:11.320 sanctuary of Apollo, surnamed Parhassian. They also give him the 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:15.080 name Pythian. They hold every year a festival in honor 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.680 of the god and sacrifice in the market place a 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.760 boar to Apollo helper. And after the sacrifice here they 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.200 at once carry the victim to the sanctuary of Parhassian 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.839 Apollo in procession to the music of the flute. Cutting 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.919 out the thigh bones, they burn them and also consume 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.480 the meat of the victim on the spot. So here 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:36.960 we get a description of like sacrifices of a boar. 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.159 Though there have been rumors for a long time that 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.280 human sacrifice was something that happened, you know that you 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.840 would kill humans and offer them up to like He 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.000 and Zeus on mountain, like Caias, so we should at 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.640 least situate this. They mentioned that you could see the 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.680 whole Peloponnese. But mountain like Kon now is it is 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.600 a mountain in the region of Arcadia, which is long 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.120 believed to be sort of this symbol or paragon of 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:06.760 beautiful unspoiled wilderness, and that's down in the Peloponnese. And Zeus, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.800 like Chaius, is essentially wolf Zeus is. Yeah, it's like 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.440 his his wolf power, ranger form. Yeah, so all everything 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.920 you expect from from Zeus, king of the gods, except 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.960 also with with lupine properties. And there are a lot 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.120 of stories about the sort of the history of this 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.560 mountain and the name like mount like Caon, and some 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.040 tellings is said to be the birthplace or the home 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.400 of Zeus, but also it's named for king like Heon 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.520 of Arcadia, who was, of course, in some myths, foolish 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.040 enough to mess with the gods of the Greek pantheon, 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:43.040 to mess with a Yeah. So, according to Ovid's telling 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.919 in the Metamorphosis, the king tried to trick Zeus into 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:51.600 eating human flesh, and Zeus retaliated by turning him into 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.400 a wolf or turning him into a were wolf. And 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.680 I want to read this part of the poem as 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.640 told in Ovid's Metamorphosis, as translated by Garth and Dryden. Okay, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.680 let's divide, Robert, you do this first section here, this 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.239 dire experiment. He chose to prove if I were mortal 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.640 or undoubted Jove. But first he had resolved to taste 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.240 my power not long before. But in a luckless hour, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.880 some legates sent from the Molassian state. We're on a 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.160 peaceful errand come to treat of these. He murders one. 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:28.000 He boils the flesh and lays the mangled morsels in 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.520 a dish. Some part he roasts, then serves it up 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:36.280 so dressed, and bids me welcome to this humane feast. Okay, 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.880 So the king captures some dudes, burns them, and then 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.880 offers them up to Zeus like here, try it, uh, 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.160 presuming I think to to trick Zeus into eating this 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:50.280 human flesh, and Zeus continues, moved with disdain. The table. 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.560 I are turned and with the avenging flames the palace burned. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.440 The tyrant, in a fright for shelter, gains the neighboring 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:03.640 fields and scours along the planes howling, He fled and fain. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.400 He would have spoke, but human voice, his brutal tongue 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:12.120 forsook about his lips. The gathered foam he churns, and 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.640 breathing slaughters still with rage. He burns, but on the 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:21.160 bleeding flock. His fury turns. His mantle, now his hide 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.200 with rugged hairs, cleaves to his back, a famished face, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.360 he bears his arms, descend his shoulders, slink away to 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:34.239 multiply his legs for chase of prey. He grows a wolf. 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.960 His hoary nous remains, and the same rage in other 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:42.679 members reiins. His eyes still sparkle in a narrower space, 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.600 his jaws retained, the grin and violence of his face, 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.240 And according to some if I remember correctly, this is 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.480 this is kind of the birth of the werewolf. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.440 this is this is a one off, if not the 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.400 earliest accounts you'll find of of of someone turning into 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.280 a LuPone form. I don't remember if we discussed this 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.160 story in the episode we did about the first Monster, 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.000 about like the idea where what was the origin of 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:13.480 beliefs in beings embodying both human and animal forms? Mixed together. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.080 We might have mentioned this, but of course apart from 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.959 this myth, which I don't think this is a historical 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:24.120 record in any case of werewolf transformation. Uh. The Despite 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.160 the story of King like Kean and all this, the 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.120 Mountain like An was in you know, without a doubt, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.319 a holy site in some versions of Greek religion, since 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.160 it was sort of the home birthplace of Zeus, and 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.680 it was also a place where blood sacrifices and burnt 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.680 offerings to Zeus were brought. And it's long been known 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.719 that animals were sacrificed and burned to Zeus here, but 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.599 recently there's been some there have been some chilling discoveries. 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.680 Archaeologists at the Sanctuary of Zeus have been excavating a 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.839 giant ancient mound of ash about a hundred feet or 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.840 about thirty meters wide that was the site of these 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.880 animal sacrifices, mostly sheep and goat's, beginning around the sixteenth 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.440 century BC, so going way back. And in twenty sixteen 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.160 it was announced that they had found human remains here, 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.960 that they found the skeleton of an adolescent male from 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.040 what appears to be I think it's not positive, but 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.520 it really looks like this was a human sacrifice from 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:25.160 around the eleventh century b c um. And of course 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:26.800 this wouldn't be the only case where we know of 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:31.320 human sacrifice likely taking place up on a mountain. Like 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.640 I think about the you know, going to the to 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.840 South America, the children of Yuyiko or Yuyayako, right, and 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.520 in the late nineties at some point they discovered three 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.840 inca child mummies there that were up on the summit 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.160 of the mountain. Is not known for sure what that is, 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.800 but it appears to be a form of human sacrifice 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.520 that was taking showing the religious significance of the mountain 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.760 there too. Interesting. So I think this is a great 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.720 example to start with here. Uh. It embodies a number 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.840 of different things here pill grimmage, Uh, just the view 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.080 mentioning just how much you can see from up there, 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.439 and the idea too that this puts you put the 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.720 place to put you in closer contact with the divine, 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.600 with the gods. But now I'd like to talk just 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.400 a little bit about the importance of geography and and 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:22.240 naturally occurring forms as metaphors. We've talked about this will 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:23.760 get bit on the show before, but you know, you 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:28.920 can find root, branch, tree, river iconography all over the place. 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.120 I think back to our episode and the Trident as well, which, 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.960 according to some theories, was originally based on a fig leaf. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:41.000 So you know it, ancient people turned to natural forms 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.800 as a way of thinking about the world and kind 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:48.160 of externalizing thought. Uh And and you see that in 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.880 in in every human tradition. So it should come as 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.200 no surprise that mountains speak to us as well. After all, 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.880 a sacred mountain is just one part of an overall 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.760 sacred giog or fie. And I think that's important to note, 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.760 Like ancient people's they wouldn't have thought like, oh, yeah, 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:06.600 this is just land over here, and that's the lake, 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.400 that's a river, and oh this mountain, that place is holy, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.600 that's where the gods live. Uh. No, the oceans, the mountains, 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.679 the earth itself, the rivers, all of it comes into 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.280 play for when you're considering a sacred view of the 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.920 world or of the universe. Yeah, you know, I kind 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.800 of think though that, Um, we might be kind of 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:32.160 unusual as far as like people in history go, given 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.600 that most of you know, most of us and the 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.319 people listening to the show probably most of their exposure 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:42.720 to religion is like to monotheisms like Christianity, Judaism and Islam, 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.440 which I would say, as far as religions go, have 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:51.440 unusually low investments in geography and and the land, because 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.599 if you go to ancient pagan religions or indigenous religions 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.040 of of of Europe and Africa and Asia, and in 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.280 the America's, you find kind all kinds of like stories 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.480 about how the land itself was created, and like like 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.880 off the very common stories that the land and the 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.000 features of the land were features of monsters that were 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.440 slain by or the features of a body of a 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.200 god that died long ago, or they have particular connections 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.520 to holy sites that are geographically unique and significant for 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.280 being unique. I mean, I guess Christianity, Islam, and Judaism 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.040 have geographical locations that are holy, but that's mainly for 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.400 like what is believed to be their historical role, right 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.920 events that took place there uh structures that either were there, 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.840 are or are still there in some form or another, 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.520 And that's certainly a part of it as well discuss. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.040 But there are various other ways to to look at 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.439 at sacred mountains and sacred geography and why those places 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:55.480 are considered sacred. So just I think one important thing 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.280 to just keep in mind is something I think most 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.120 of us can relate to, and that is just the 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.240 idea of a mountain or an impressive photo of one 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:09.400 will likely summon feelings of grandeur or intimidation, adventure, peace efforts, seclusion, 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:14.079 wonder or indeed connection to the heavens. Um. I mean 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.960 this is why you see, uh, you know, posters and 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.160 images and paintings of mountains. I mean they are they're 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.360 beautiful about how and we travel to the mountains and 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.920 then we stand, uh, either atop the mountain or certainly 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.600 at a nice vista, and we we take it all 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.280 in and it it summons feelings and summons emotions and 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.240 takes us outside of ourselves. EO. Wilson talks about this 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.840 a little bit when he's discussing the biophilia hypothesis, and 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.280 I think this is in the context of him generally 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.920 talking about evolutionary explanations for our aesthetic preferences, like why 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.640 is it so often that the pictures we find beautiful 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.200 include vistas from a high point of view, you know, 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.040 being able to look down over a landscape and you 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.320 offer some possible evolutionary explanations for that. You know, maybe 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.280 this is like a more definable point where you can 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.520 see things coming towards you. But yeah, it's hard to 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.920 deny that when I see a mountain. I don't know 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.040 if everybody feels this way as much as I do. 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.920 When I see a mountain, I want to go up it. 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.760 I've never done mountain climbing. I've done hiking and stuff, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:17.720 but I do want to go up to the top 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.360 of the highest point and look down well see. And 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.560 I think you and I are different in this regard. Uh, 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.960 You've talked before on the show about how you have 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.000 no problem like walking up to the edge of a cliff. 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.560 I'm a little more reluctant to do that. But still, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.480 if I see like a crazy you know, cliff or peak, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.520 or or images of people mountain climbing, I do put 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.440 myself imagine myself up there, and often terrify myself with 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.760 the with the prospect. So I feel like that kind 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:51.440 of like mental transportation is inevitable. But a couple of 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.840 other things about just how we think about mountains a 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.160 common trope in various mythologies, and we'll touch on Some 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.080 specific examples here in a bit are that the mountain, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.560 or at least the mountain peak on some level, connects 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.200 Earth to the sky. So it might be like a 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.200 sky pill or situation where the mountain is holding up 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.720 the cosmos, holding up the heavens, holding up the sky, 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.400 or it is in some way an umbilical or a 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.400 ladder and uh. Or that the mountain itself serves as 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.320 a you know, an axis Monday, the central tent pole 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:29.480 of a sacred cosmos, a stairway to heaven if you will. Well, 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:33.280 that's really interesting because especially it pairs with older ways 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.560 of thinking about the sky. You know, it's not all 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.720 that uncommon for ancient peoples to have conceived of the 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.400 sky as a place with solid ground that you could 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.960 walk around in, you know, like a firmament. There's a 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.520 dome over the earth and uh. And so you might wonder, well, 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.400 what does something hold up the dome. If there's solid 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.680 ground up there that the gods can walk around in, 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.400 there must be something holding it up. And so you 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.600 can imagine, well, maybe a mountain holds it up. That's 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.600 the obvious answer. In fact, yes, you can see where 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.600 this this complex weave emerges of an attempt to understand 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.560 what is what your visit, what you're actually observing, what 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.240 is the objective reality? And then also these mythic ideas 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.240 of like what does about about structure and uh and 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:19.720 and center and the importance of place and identity. There's also, 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.919 from a practical sense, the fact that to stand atop 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.560 of great height is to gain a crucial vantage point. 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.959 In some cases that could be purely strategic, such as 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.520 this is the E. O. Wilson thing. Yeah, you can 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.200 see the movements of of herd animals, you can see 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.800 the movements of enemy troops, etcetera. But I also wonder 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.920 if it could be something a little more existential. I 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:44.920 wonder if if such heights could be considered possibly capable 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.960 of invoking something like the overview effect that proposed a 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.280 state of mind or you know, a state of euphoric 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.360 interconnectedness that ensues when one sees the planet Earth from 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.600 outer space. It's not quite the same, sir, but I'm 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.960 wondering if perhaps that affects scales down to some extent. Yeah, 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.160 I can absolutely see that. So some astronauts report they 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.119 look out the window of the International Space Station or 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.840 of their you know, their vehicle and they see the 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.320 Earth from space, and suddenly it just comes into sharp 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:21.200 focus that that are you know, petty squabbles are exactly 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.440 that they're petty. You know that they vanish in the 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.719 face of the fact that we're all trapped on this 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.440 ball together. And and it makes human concerns look small 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.159 and makes people feel a strong sense of sort of 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.480 the common interest of all humanity and the connectedness of 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:38.639 all of our concerns because the fate of the Earth 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.600 is the fate of all of us. And yeah, I 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.800 can absolutely see that happening. I mean, so, imagine you 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.720 normally you live in a small village or a city 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:48.920 where you are. You know, you you've got your day 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.640 to day concerns, you're angry with your neighbor, or you've 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.320 got your politics that you're doing, if you're like a 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.879 priest or something, and then you go up on a 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.520 mountain and then you look down at the place where 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.600 you come from the village or the city, or the farms, 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.440 and suddenly everything looks tiny. This basic shift in visual 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.000 and optical perspective could very well trigger a kind of 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.640 the same kind of mental shift that people experience when 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.600 they go into space. Yeah, absolutely, I was. I was 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.919 doing a little reading about about some of these ideas, 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.960 and it ran across an excellent little paper by Edwin 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.800 Burne Bomb titled in Sacred Mountains Themes and Teachings, and 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.320 this is from Mountain Research and Development twenty six And 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:29.960 the author does a great job of just which just 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.760 laying out some basics. For instance, lays out three basic 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:37.280 ways that mountains are considered sacred uh. And and we 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.280 can as I lay these out, you can certainly think 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.600 two examples we've discussed already, and I think these will 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.159 also be useful in considering examples we discussed in the 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.399 rest of the podcast. So, burn Bomb says, first, specific 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:53.080 peaks are singled out as places of sanctity. Uh. They're 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.400 supported by myths and practices such as pilgrimages, meditation, and 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.960 even sacrifice. Number two, they may contain sacred sites or 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.000 objects like temples or shrines, or even something more natural 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:09.000 like a spring. And then number three, the natural setting 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:13.359 itself awakens a sense of wonder and awe. All three 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.359 of these tend to work together, burn Bomb says, on 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.120 an individual's experience with the sacredness of a mountain, Furthermore, 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.640 Burned Bomb defined ten themes frequently seen in sacred mountains. 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:32.160 So they are roughly height, center, power, God or God. 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.080 Either the mountains of God itself, where it is the 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.720 home of God's The mountain is a place of worship. 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.040 The mountain is a paradise or a garden. Um is 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.840 a place where the ancestors of the dead may reside, 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.439 a source of cultural identity, a source of healing, or 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.440 or just a source of water, which makes sense because 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.600 I mean help goes downhill exactly, and also as a 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:59.320 place of renewal. So these are again ten broad themes 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:04.920 that Embomb identifies in the identity and characterization of sacred mountains. 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.400 All right, well, we can look for these and examples 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.400 of mountains that we talk about. So maybe I'll offer 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:11.399 up one example of a mountain to think about, and 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.520 then maybe after that take a break and then look 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.080 at some others. Okay, but this first one is one 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:19.280 I mentioned in the episode where we talked about pressure, 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.439 because I think it's a commonly cited example of a 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.040 very important holy mountain that's holy in multiple religions, not 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.320 just one. Uh. And this would be the peaks. It's 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.000 a peak in the Himalayas, known as Mount Kailash or 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:35.679 Mount Kailasa uh. And so this is a holy mountain 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.280 in multiple religions. In Hinduism, this mountain is believed to 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.399 be the abode of Lord Shiva, the destroyer of evil, 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.560 and of his wife Parvadi, who together sit in meditation 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.680 at the summit of the mountain. And so the site 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.440 of Mount Kailash is a destination of pilgrimage for many Hindus, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:57.280 who climb fifteen thousand feet or about four point six 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.719 kilometers up this ascent path to the bay of the mountain, 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.800 but do not climb its summit. In fact, climbing the 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.119 sacred summit is forbidden, and though while we can't know 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:10.400 for sure, it's often said that the summit has never 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.720 been climbed by a human uh. Instead, it's believed virtuous 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.840 for pilgrims to walk in a circle around the base 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.080 of the mountain, but not go up to the summit. 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:22.640 And this, of course is not just a holy site 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:24.760 for Hindus, as I was saying, but it's also holy 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.880 for Buddhists, for Jaynes, and for people of the indigenous 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:32.000 religion of Tibetan known as bone. Yes, a very ancient 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:35.280 animist religion. Yeah. Now, if you look at what a 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.520 picture of Mount Kailosh looks like from below, I mean 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:42.760 I would say, obviously I already know this about it 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.000 when I've seen pictures of it. But it's not hard 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:49.399 to see how a person looking up at this peak 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:53.320