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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I

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Speaker 1: never told you your production by Heart Radio, and today

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Speaker 1: we are once again so happy to be joined by

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Speaker 1: the wonderful, the outstanding Bridget Todd. Welcome Bridget.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me so excited to be back.

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Speaker 3: Before we started recording, we were reminiscing about our local malls.

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Speaker 3: And now I have like mall or Mall Madness. It's

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Speaker 3: like nostalgia overload, looks.

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Speaker 4: We actually Annie bought me that game because it was

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Speaker 4: one of my childhood games, Mall Madness, and we've.

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Speaker 2: Talked about we have to play this game.

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Speaker 4: I realized I do not remember I'll play. When we

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Speaker 4: opened it, I was like, wait, what we have to

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Speaker 4: buy things? I know that, but how do you buy things?

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Speaker 4: And sometimes you can use cat and sometimes you get declined.

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Speaker 4: I don't remember. Bridget.

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Speaker 5: You should come down. We'll have a game night.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'll bring dream Phone. That was my game, so

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Speaker 3: you have dream Home.

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Speaker 4: I have a blind date because any purchase that we

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Speaker 4: need to do that the mom. Okay, come down, sweep.

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Speaker 4: I have a Sweet Balley High game and a Babysitters game.

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Speaker 2: Come on. I'm very much evening of my dreams.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I just have to brag, Bridget I won our

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Speaker 1: dated game twice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we played a blind date together and I was like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know what's happening, but she ended up winning.

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Speaker 3: Is it a game of strategy or like skill or

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Speaker 3: sort of like luck?

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Speaker 1: Wait, Samantha, no strategy. I realized that this guy didn't

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Speaker 1: like football, so maybe he would be into this character.

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Speaker 1: I think they should update it so you can have

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Speaker 1: queer characters.

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Speaker 2: That's my I bet they have an update. Have we?

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Speaker 4: How we locked by that, We talked about all of

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Speaker 4: the old games that were very gendered and the ones

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Speaker 4: that we remembered, but likes things like mal Madness really

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Speaker 4: popped up. My brother actually really enjoyed that game too,

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Speaker 4: but he wouldn't admit it. But every time he see

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Speaker 4: me pull it out and I would play by myself, Yes,

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Speaker 4: I was that kid. Uh, he would ask to join me.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes there's something to be said about the games that

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Speaker 1: were coming out at that time that had like the

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Speaker 1: very specific technology that could be used for nothing else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like dream phone, like the I'm going far

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Speaker 3: back into the recesses of my memory here, so might

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Speaker 3: not be totally right, but it came with like a

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Speaker 3: clunky plastic phone, yes, that you would put to your

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Speaker 3: ear and it would be like he's not wearing a

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Speaker 3: hat and you would figure out like whoo, who had

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Speaker 3: a crush on you based on like what this phone

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Speaker 3: would tell you.

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Speaker 4: I think the brand girls talk who did that? The

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Speaker 4: date one as well as truth or dare like that

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Speaker 4: was their brand. They also had like magazines, I believe,

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Speaker 4: but yeah, they they made sure to catalyze on only

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Speaker 4: their games.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, memory a real like gendered media empire.

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Speaker 5: Was it was?

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Speaker 4: But you know that is that conversation we've had repeatedly,

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Speaker 4: like all the industries that if they specifically go after

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Speaker 4: women most of the times or young girls, they know

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Speaker 4: as a moneymaker. If we talked about that, I was

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Speaker 4: like with games, if we actually talked about that with

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Speaker 4: magazines too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's actually a perfect segue into what I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about. And by the way, like I

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Speaker 3: didn't even connect this, but I was a voracious reader

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Speaker 3: of magazine, any kind of girl magazine in the nineties

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Speaker 3: I was getting I got all of them. I also

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Speaker 3: loved a good catalog. I still have Delia's catalogs, and

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Speaker 3: I thumbed through like it was a real like time

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Speaker 3: to be a girl who liked to consume media. And

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Speaker 3: something that I find really interesting is the way that

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Speaker 3: today those same like media spaces can really be used

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Speaker 3: to expose women to ideology that you might not even

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Speaker 3: like on the face, really recognize. We talked a little

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Speaker 3: bit about this in the episode that you and I

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Speaker 3: all did with about Candice on how she is so

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Speaker 3: good at using like a political conversations about celebrity to

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Speaker 3: really radicalize women. And in that same vein we have

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Speaker 3: to talk about this magazine called EV Magazine. I think

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Speaker 3: you have you all, what's what's your familiarity with EV?

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Speaker 4: Right? So when I saw this was coming to our conversations,

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Speaker 4: at first I was like, wait, why does this look familiar?

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Speaker 4: And then I realized in our ten to twenty part

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Speaker 4: episode of Religious Trauma and Women that we actually used

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Speaker 4: some of their publication and it was one of those

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Speaker 4: as I was like, because I was not familiar when

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Speaker 4: I first pulled up into this article because we were

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Speaker 4: talking about you knowcurity, culture and sexuality and women and

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Speaker 4: all of these things within Christianity, especially Western Christianity, and

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Speaker 4: it was this whole like bed it was twisting the

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Speaker 4: narrative a little bit about like, you know, people being

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Speaker 4: too sexualized has really really gone away from us and

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Speaker 4: made it so over the top that is no longer

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Speaker 4: enjoyable or da da da. And at first you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this could make sense, and then as I read more

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Speaker 4: and more like wait, who is this publication and it's

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Speaker 4: Evy and I went through it, I was like, oh, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is oh wow. They really have dug deep in

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Speaker 4: this whole like relevance culture within Christianity to bring out

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Speaker 4: something that doesn't feel like like it's preaching on you,

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Speaker 4: but it has an agenda. And I was like, wow,

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Speaker 4: So we were familiar because in that same like of course,

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Speaker 4: we wanted to talk about that conversation. So I had

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Speaker 4: to give a caveat to our listeners and be like, hey,

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Speaker 4: so this publication is specifically very Christian oriented and it's

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Speaker 4: published by very conservative peace people, and they don't you

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Speaker 4: don't know that until much later into reading things in here.

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Speaker 4: So that's how I was like, Okay, so we used

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Speaker 4: them before. They're an interesting publication.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and what you just described is really part and

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Speaker 3: parcel of the experience of reading ev online. You know,

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Speaker 3: you might be like, oh, well, this is this is

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Speaker 3: a reasonable take, like oh, I agree with that, and

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Speaker 3: then you're.

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Speaker 2: Like, wait a minute, this is actually I'm not so sure.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a look at like who is behind this

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Speaker 3: publication and they're what they're about. So this whole conversation

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Speaker 3: comes off the heels of a really media profile with

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Speaker 3: the founder of ev magazine in the New York Times.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of what I'm going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about comes from that piece by Katie j and Baker.

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Speaker 3: If you've not seen ev, evie is a I guess

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Speaker 3: a women's media outlet. If you have seen their content

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Speaker 3: on the internet, you probably think of it as a

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Speaker 3: publication that focuses on pop culture wellness and relationships for

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Speaker 3: a female audience. But it has the distinct conservative perspective

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Speaker 3: that Samantha, as you rightly clocked, might not be so

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Speaker 3: obvious at first glance.

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Speaker 2: And this is a problem.

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Speaker 3: I'll get sort of more into why, I'm sure in

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Speaker 3: this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and this was something we were Smith and I

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Speaker 1: were just discussing about how there's all these like back

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Speaker 1: doors into getting radicalized, like content that you think, oh,

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Speaker 1: cyoga content and then it's got this other thing. It's

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Speaker 1: like lures you in. So it's important to look into Okay,

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Speaker 1: what what is the agenda? Who is behind it? So

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Speaker 1: can you tell us Bridget a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: those things.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So Evie was founded by a husband wife duo, thirty

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Speaker 3: three year old Brittany Hugo Boom with her husband Gabriel.

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Speaker 3: They describe it as a kind of anti Cosmo magazine.

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Speaker 3: They said they want to be the one stop shop

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Speaker 3: for femininity. That's from Brittany Hugo Boom, who is the

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Speaker 3: public face of the business.

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Speaker 2: How the story of how.

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Speaker 3: Ev came to be in the world as a kind

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Speaker 3: of a familiar one for anybody who has ever sharted

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Speaker 3: a magazine or wanted to, you know, publish something. Brittany

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Speaker 3: said that she was a model for brands like Adidas,

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Speaker 3: and during that time she loved fashion and she loved

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Speaker 3: pop culture magazines like l This was in the twenty tens,

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Speaker 3: and that was, you know, as somebody who was a

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Speaker 3: voracious reader of women's media, Like it was just a

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Speaker 3: particular time for women's media, especially online. You had sites

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Speaker 3: like Jess Bell and The Cut that were these explicitly

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Speaker 3: feminist spaces that also did a lot of coverage on

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Speaker 3: like pop culture, women's health, and politics. So like the

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Speaker 3: women's media ecosystem at that time really did a good

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Speaker 3: job of blending feminism with pop culture and politics. But

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Speaker 3: Britney really felt overlooked by this kind of coverage. She

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Speaker 3: said that she had a hard time finding positive coverage

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Speaker 3: in this in this media climate about things like traditional marriage.

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Speaker 3: And I will pause there and say, like, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to discount Britney's experience. I feel like in the

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Speaker 3: twenty tens, I read a lot of content about motherhood

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Speaker 3: and marriage. Like I don't know if we were coming

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Speaker 3: up in the same media ecosystem. I will just say,

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Speaker 3: like my personal experiences that I do think there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of coverage about marriage out there. I don't think

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Speaker 3: that that's like a third rail topic that is not

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Speaker 3: being discussed in the culture. But that's what Brittany says anyway.

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Speaker 3: So thus the idea for EV magazine was born. A

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Speaker 3: stylish publication rooted in celebrating quote femininity. This is from

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Speaker 3: the New York Times.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 3: It will be as escapist and aspirational as any other

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Speaker 3: mainstream women's magazine except Evie covers girls who would not

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Speaker 3: be politicians in power suits, but the type of women

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Speaker 3: who might compete in beauty pageants. Two weeks after giving

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Speaker 3: birth to their eighth child, which their most recent cover girl,

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Speaker 3: Utah influencer Hannah Nielman aka Ballerina Farm actually did. The

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Speaker 3: magazine's name is a riff. I'm a first woman in

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Speaker 3: the Bible quote Eve screwed the world, Hugo Boom said,

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Speaker 3: and this is a new Eve who will save the world.

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Speaker 2: So if you're talking some like pretty deep.

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Speaker 3: Religious vibes on that one, that you would be right.

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Speaker 4: I I am not, okay. So I figured out finally

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Speaker 4: where that where we used it, and it was actually

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Speaker 4: for our women in magazine. We were talking about that

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Speaker 4: earlier about how how how I'd mentioned like gender things

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Speaker 4: such as women's magazines really made a lot of money

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Speaker 4: and realizing after they started like the Housewife magazine, they

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Speaker 4: jumped into young girl magazines and teaching them how to

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Speaker 4: be wives and partners and such. But even magazine was

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Speaker 4: in that conversation because they do they talk about the

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Speaker 4: whole level of like, have we over sexualized girls so

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Speaker 4: much that we are causing young girls to have complexes

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Speaker 4: in not being sexual enough like all of these things,

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Speaker 4: which was like, you know, sometimes we do that conversation

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Speaker 4: about having balance in this And then again, like I said,

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Speaker 4: I was like, wait, this sounds like a great idea,

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Speaker 4: and then you start looking at the ads and then

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Speaker 4: you start reading more into it, and the ads were

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Speaker 4: like return to femininity, and I was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 4: which sounds like the whole level of like we're going

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Speaker 4: to correct the evils of women by making you real feminine.

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Speaker 4: But when we say feminine we mean submissive. But it

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Speaker 4: is something that we have to credit them that they're

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Speaker 4: making they understand what makes money.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: When I read that New York Times profile, I was

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Speaker 3: really struck by how savvy they were, how media savvy

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Speaker 3: they were, how smart they were, Like in terms of

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Speaker 3: business decisions, fair right on the money. I don't happen

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Speaker 3: to like or agree with the ideology they push, but

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Speaker 3: in terms of like do they have the potential to

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Speaker 3: make a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of money, I think the answer is yes.

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Speaker 3: And Sam, you really cock something that it's even difficult

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Speaker 3: to really parse. But I think that one of the

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Speaker 3: reasons why they found some success is that they do

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Speaker 3: speak to issues that are like they like they kind

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Speaker 3: of have a point in some ways, right, Like it

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Speaker 3: is a totally valid conversation to say, like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, in a climate where women are told that

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Speaker 3: it's good to be sex positive and like it's good

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Speaker 3: to like, you know, embrace your sexuality, which is all great,

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Speaker 3: what does what does that do to like younger women

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Speaker 3: and girls? Is it an impacting them in a negative way?

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Speaker 3: These are great questions to ask, and I'm happy that

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Speaker 3: people are asking them, And like the kind of work

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Speaker 3: that you all do here on sminty Is is a

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Speaker 3: great example of that.

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Speaker 2: But the way that ev takes this like reasonable.

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Speaker 3: Conversation and then like completely goes to the extreme with it.

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Speaker 3: And that's why you should really be getting involved in

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Speaker 3: like purity culture, and that's why your real value as

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Speaker 3: a woman is about like you know, who you give

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Speaker 3: yourself to. Like, like it almost kind of swings back

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Speaker 3: around this incredibly rigid under standing of women and girls

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Speaker 3: and so the way that they're able to really occupy

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Speaker 3: that space of like, well, this is a reasonable question,

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Speaker 3: but then take it so far afield that you're like.

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Speaker 2: Well that is not a reasonable conclusion.

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Speaker 1: I think it's savvy that they did hone in on Hey,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know we can be like feminism is

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Speaker 1: bad and here's why. Like they also did that where

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Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, by being feminists, what you're saying is

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Speaker 1: you're anti woman, which then it's just like a whole

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Speaker 1: mind honestly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, some of the positions that are advocated for in

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Speaker 3: ev are just like very extreme when it comes to

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Speaker 3: women and girls, right, Like, you know, things.

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Speaker 2: Like women shouldn't it's not it's not good for women

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Speaker 2: to be working.

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Speaker 3: Things like that, things that are like anybody would look

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Speaker 3: at that and be like, well, that is a very

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Speaker 3: extreme perspective. This is what dislikes Glossy Poppy magazine is

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Speaker 3: advocating for right and it's just like a very very

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Speaker 3: conservative and traditional perspective on gender to the point of being,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion extreme. Hears a little bit from the piece,

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Speaker 3: they say Evie sees themselves as an opposition to what

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Speaker 3: they've called modern feminism. Femininity does not mean feminism, which

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Speaker 3: Hugo Boom doesn't define as equal rights, but as a

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Speaker 3: self hating movement that is anti family and anti male,

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Speaker 3: one that shames women who choose conventional roles despite running

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Speaker 3: two companies. She's particularly critical of what she calls girl

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Speaker 3: boss feminism. Her interpretation of that term, which went from

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Speaker 3: broadly celebrated to roundly dismissed in the twenty tens, is

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Speaker 3: that it encourages women to be just like men to

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Speaker 3: succeed in corporate fields. Such messaging, she says, has made

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Speaker 3: women anxious, lonely, and unfulfilled. Instead, she believes faith's family

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Speaker 3: and love, not casual sex, careerism or ideological activist the

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Speaker 3: supply the greatest satisfaction. So exactly what you just said, Annie, Like,

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Speaker 3: it's these attitudes that say that they are meant to

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Speaker 3: celebrate women, but then what they're actually the actual conclusion

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Speaker 3: is incredibly anti women, right like, And notice how they

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Speaker 3: put that, you know, ideological activism. No, no, no, that's not

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Speaker 3: going to make women happy. Like okay, so I shouldn't

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Speaker 3: advocate for things I believe.

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Speaker 4: And got it. I mean, you can just see how

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Speaker 4: quickly this turns into anti trans narrative. Not fear of

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Speaker 4: being erasing women, which is a whole kind of laughable thing.

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Speaker 4: Is like feminism is in itself, is like embracing women,

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Speaker 4: like being acknowledged as women as a person as well

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Speaker 4: as trans women are women, so they're being women.

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Speaker 5: So how is that?

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Speaker 4: Like there's so many like this level of like almost irony,

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Speaker 4: but that it works. And I don't know because the

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Speaker 4: few pieces, like I said, I read, they're very like

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Speaker 4: subtle about it. They don't want to come out full

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Speaker 4: force of showing that they are very very conservative because

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Speaker 4: they are trying to bring in all those leaders kind

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Speaker 4: of that same level of like when we talk about

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Speaker 4: yoga and crunching life turning into being conservative as well

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Speaker 4: as like the Chadwife, because the initial idea is this aesthetic,

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Speaker 4: which this magazine has that esthetic totally.

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Speaker 3: And I mean this is a little bit of a

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Speaker 3: non sequitor, but I personally have to be real careful

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Speaker 3: because like I am someone who cares a lot about nutrition, right,

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Speaker 3: Like I am right now trying to you know, up

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Speaker 3: my physical health through nutrition and exercise. I when you

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Speaker 3: are like searching Instagram or TikTok for that kind of content,

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Speaker 3: the way algorithms are like, oh you like nutrition, huh, well,

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Speaker 3: how would you like some? And then it's just extremist rhetoric,

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Speaker 3: extremist rhetoric, extremist rhetoric. So like I have to be

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Speaker 3: really careful because like I do care about nutrition, and

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Speaker 3: it definitely these algorithms clocked it if like that is

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Speaker 3: an interest of yours. We need to be surfacing you

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Speaker 3: up ever increasing extreme content and like next thing, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's like and then certainly you're anti vacts and then

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Speaker 3: certainly you're anti trans It's like, whoa, I'm just trying to,

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Speaker 3: you know, get more protein in my diet and.

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Speaker 4: Relax, right, I just want to like be healthy.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what would just happened.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't need you to tell me that all these chemicals,

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Speaker 4: which are just nutrients are killing me. What's happening exactly.

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Speaker 4: I think they really landed on something with these pages, though,

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Speaker 4: that they are able to use what we kind of

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Speaker 4: always have seen, Like the magazines in general have always

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Speaker 4: been about teaching girls to be better somehow, or that

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Speaker 4: you're not good enough if you're not if you want

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Speaker 4: to hit these goals, this is what you need to do.

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Speaker 4: And EV's like that perfect layout for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that especially, you know, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: surprise me that the founder of EV really sees herself

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Speaker 3: as in opposition to like the girl boss era of

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Speaker 3: the twenty tens, and I think was really serving women,

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Speaker 3: women like myself, who.

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Speaker 2: Were looking for something and.

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Speaker 3: They and I think this kind of girl boss feminism

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Speaker 3: filled that gap and tried to be like, well, is

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Speaker 3: what you're looking for a corner office and lots of money,

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Speaker 3: because like here's.

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Speaker 2: You could have that.

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Speaker 3: And I this is where I have to say, like

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Speaker 3: I kind of agree with Hugo Woman a little bit.

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Speaker 3: I think that like in the twenty tens, feminism and

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Speaker 3: the conversation around women and like our liberation really got

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Speaker 3: co opted by this kind of lean in girl boss vibe,

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Speaker 3: where wealthy white women were really given the mic and

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Speaker 3: they used that mic could tell us that like liberation

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Speaker 3: was having a corner office, kicking butt at work, having

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Speaker 3: the money to pay someone else to watch your kids

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Speaker 3: while you slay in the boardroom, blah blah blah blah blah,

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Speaker 3: and that was really empty. And I think ten years later,

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Speaker 3: I would argue that we are still reeling and feeling

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Speaker 3: the fallout from how empty of a promise of liberation

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Speaker 3: that ended up being. But I think nothing has really

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Speaker 3: stepped in to fill that gap. And so then you

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Speaker 3: have media outlets like Evie responding to this actual need

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Speaker 3: in a marginalized community, a community of women saying like, okay, well,

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Speaker 3: kicking butt at work did not really lead to liberation,

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Speaker 3: so what will you know. There is a truism about

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Speaker 3: extremist content that like they are so good and identifying

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Speaker 3: existing actual gaps that people need filled and then filling

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Speaker 3: those gaps with their ideological content.

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Speaker 4: It's so funny that when you read and see this

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Speaker 4: level of cyclical actions like the you've been told so hard,

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Speaker 4: it kind of is that layer of like us not

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Speaker 4: looking at what society has done to us in general,

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Speaker 4: and telling us the only way you can succeed is

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Speaker 4: you have to give one hundred and fifty percent of

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Speaker 4: yourself to this. And if you don't fail, your failure

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Speaker 4: is on you because you didn't try hard enough. But

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Speaker 4: you can't be called successful until you get these markers.

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Speaker 4: And these markers are the standard by society and capitalism.

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Speaker 4: So this is what it is. And if you are successful,

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Speaker 4: either you're going to be penalized in one way or another,

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Speaker 4: being told that you are greedy or over the top

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Speaker 4: or two ambitious, or you're going to be penalized because

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Speaker 4: we're you're going to fail in this moment and saying

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Speaker 4: that you doing these things has made you obnoxious and

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Speaker 4: impossible be around, Like it's such a context, but it's

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Speaker 4: the setup of society in that level. But at the

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Speaker 4: same time, as you were saying, like grifters and those alike,

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Speaker 4: social media have realized, hmm, we need to come back

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Speaker 4: around because people are starting to really get frustrated because

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Speaker 4: they can't hit that mark and they're exhausted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I in that I completely agree with everything

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Speaker 3: that you've just said. And in that climate, I can

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Speaker 3: understand why a publication like EV telling women like, listen,

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Speaker 3: aren't you exhausted? Just check out of this whole thing altogether,

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Speaker 3: Like just get married, leave your job, have kids, let

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Speaker 3: him work, let him figure it all out, and you

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Speaker 3: just rich reat from public life like that is Ultimately

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Speaker 3: what I think that EVE is telling an entire generation

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Speaker 3: of women is that you should only.

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Speaker 2: Exist in the domestic.

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Speaker 3: And I don't want to discount the fact that there's

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Speaker 3: real power in the domestic for women like that, that

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Speaker 3: there is power in that, no shame in that at all.

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Speaker 3: But I think that what they're saying is like women

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Speaker 3: don't belong in workplaces, women don't belong in boardrooms, women

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Speaker 3: don't belong in civic and public life, and that's.

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Speaker 2: Simply not true. And so I think that.

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Speaker 3: Eve is setting up this alternative of like, instead of

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Speaker 3: all of those things that exhaust us as women, why

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Speaker 3: not embrace these have a soft life.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm sure you've seen.

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Speaker 3: That kind of content all over your TikTok, right, And

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Speaker 3: I think google Boom says this pretty much explicitly in

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Speaker 3: this piece. She says, I think more women want a

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Speaker 3: soft life, a beautiful life, than feeling all this pressure

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Speaker 3: to do all these things. And I can't help but

413
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Speaker 3: really see that as in opposition to the reality that

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Speaker 3: you just laid out, Sam that like, yeah, it does.

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Speaker 3: It is hard to deal with all of these pressures

416
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Speaker 3: to you know, be ambitious but not too ambitious, make

417
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Speaker 3: money but not too much money.

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Speaker 2: Work.

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Speaker 3: But then it's a lot I like, I'm I really

420
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Speaker 3: deeply do understand why this kind of attitude and message

421
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Speaker 3: is very enticing, especially right now in a time of

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Speaker 3: like uncertainty and chaos and rising costs and things like that.

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Speaker 4: Oh, and you actually pulled out something that I was

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Speaker 4: trying to look into for a Monday many I don't

425
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Speaker 4: have enough information, but the whole like the soft life

426
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Speaker 4: transitioning into red pill and manisphere content and what that looks.

427
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, there it is, but I like,

428
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Speaker 4: there's not. We're still on the cusp of understanding it.

429
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Speaker 4: Like people are recognizing that as a side, Like this

430
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 4: is that same like trail that happened again with the

431
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Speaker 4: crunchy lifestyle slash natural lifestyle slash yoga lifestyle into red

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Speaker 4: pill content. That soft life is that same level. If

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Speaker 4: you start watching who is to pulling it out and

434
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Speaker 4: who is talking about the most, You're like, oh, but

435
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: it's such an interesting level because it does offer you

436
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 4: something like is it the dream for me to not

437
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Speaker 4: have to work at all and worry about things and

438
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 4: sit and watch k dramas all day and maybe go

439
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 4: out to do some zumba and yoga? Yeah, have maybe

440
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 4: someone cooked for me instead of me cooking myself all

441
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 4: the nasty foods that I'm like, I'm just gonna snack today,

442
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 4: Like that level of like comfort of like this ideal

443
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 4: that used to be the way, but which is not

444
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 4: true at all. Because again, when we have a conversation

445
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 4: about like the good old days when the men women

446
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 4: got to stay at home and women being like, yeah,

447
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 4: I'd rather be at home too, if everything was equal.

448
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 4: But that's not the case. And as you said before,

449
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 4: like people who are in the domestic life, who are

450
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 4: stay at home moms, it's a hard job.

451
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: It's hard. That's not a soft life. That's like, have

452
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: you ever been.

453
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: Around toddlers, people who are raising toddlers and not getting

454
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 3: a break from it because they don't do any wage

455
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: earning work outside of the house. They're not living a

456
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 3: soft life.

457
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 4: No we God forbid they have any kind of medical

458
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 4: needs or if they have.

459
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: Like school needs.

460
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 4: You have to be at all these activities constantly, and

461
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 4: you have to show up to do like act volunteering

462
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 4: there what dear God.

463
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: So this is that is exactly That is exactly my

464
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: main beef with Evy, Right, they are selling women a lie,

465
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 3: a fantasy where we're in retreating from public life and

466
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: just like existing in the domestic is this soft, easy

467
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 3: moneyed fantasy the kind of life that women and should

468
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: be after.

469
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: But as you said, one staying at home as a.

470
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: Companion, they sometimes and it's not soft and glamorous at all,

471
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 3: even like the people who perform trad wife on Instagram

472
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: probably like like, you never see those women cleaning toilets

473
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 3: or cleaning baby puke off of their shirt, which is

474
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 3: sometimes the reality of staying at home. But in addition

475
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 3: to that, not working, not making or managing your own money,

476
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 3: not participating in civic and public life, is not a

477
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: recipe for safety and security. It is incredibly risky to

478
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: the people that do this. The data is incredibly clear

479
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: that when women stop working, whether they have a kid

480
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 3: or they're a caretaker for somebody and they leave the workforce,

481
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: when they re enter the workforce, they are going to

482
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: make a lot less.

483
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 2: So if and when they.

484
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 3: Do go back to work, the data is super clear

485
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: they're going to be making less right. And so if

486
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 3: you don't work or never work, and you just depend

487
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 3: on your partner for everything, what happens if your partner

488
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 3: passes away, what happens if you if your partner becomes

489
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: disabled or sickke and they can't work. There are so

490
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 3: many ways that this life is incredibly risky and insecure.

491
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: And the content would have you believe like, oh, this

492
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: is going to be soft and.

493
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 2: Glamorous and lovely.

494
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even have a problem with this kind of

495
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 3: content so much if it told women the truth, if

496
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: it was like, hey, don't work, but also put away

497
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: a little money for yourself, or don't work, but make

498
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 3: sure that you keep an eye on your finances and

499
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 3: understand them in case something happens. Like if they were

500
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 3: more realistic and honest about the life that they are selling,

501
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even have a big problem with them. But

502
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 3: they are not doing that. They're selling a very enticing

503
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 3: but dangerous lie.

504
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: Yes, And as we've been mentioning throughout, they're doing it

505
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: in a way that at first you don't realize where

506
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, I can relate to this. Yeah,

507
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: But then you start to think about it, like, okay, wait,

508
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: what what did I just read?

509
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: Yeah? This is from that New York Times piece.

510
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: At first glance, evis nonpartisan, publishing content about daily topics

511
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: such as award winning red carpets.

512
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: And styling skinny genes.

513
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: But readers who click past hot girl health trends and

514
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: Adam Brody appreciation posts will find articles that promote positions

515
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: that are friend even within conservative circles. Criticisms of no

516
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: salt divorce, and in vitro fertilization for example, package and

517
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 3: a fun and approachable format. A typical Evy headline Amy

518
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 3: from Love is Blind is right to be hesitant about

519
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: birth control. Also they're like super they're super sussa about

520
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 3: birth control.

521
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: We'll talk more about that in a minute.

522
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 3: But yeah, and so this is actually part of a

523
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: pretty concerning trend. Media spaces that at first glance seem

524
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: a political are actually very political. That is becoming much

525
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 3: more common online media matters. That an analysis that really

526
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 3: showed how right leaning spaces dominate the online ecosystem with

527
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 3: content that appears a political at first.

528
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: The analysis was based on.

529
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 3: Three hundred and twenty online shows with a right leaning

530
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: or left leading ideological bent. They found that right leaning

531
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: shows dominate the online ecosystem with substantially larger audiences on

532
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 3: both politics and news shows and supposedly non political shows

533
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 3: that they determined often platformed ideological content or guests.

534
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: And here's the kicker.

535
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 3: The analysis, which looked entirely at shows with an ideological bent,

536
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 3: found over a third self identify as non political, even

537
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: though seventy two percent of those shows were determined to

538
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: be right leaning. Instead, these shows describe themselves as comedy, entertainment, sports,

539
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 3: or put themselves in supposedly other non political categories. So basically,

540
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: these online spaces that are incredibly influential get to be like, oh,

541
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 3: we're not political, we're not political, we're just talking about celebrity,

542
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: gossip and entertainment. But actually they're incredibly political in specifically

543
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: seventy two percent of these cases right leaning ideological bents.

544
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: Yes. And one of those things that really scares me

545
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: about that in this whole conversation is like evy going

546
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: back to the name being like women were wrong and

547
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: are the source of all evil. Like when I was

548
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: a kid, I heard that like Bible story and I

549
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: believed it, and so like I feel like it's it's

550
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: leaning into a lot of stuff many of us internalized

551
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: growing up of this is the natural way of things, right,

552
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: this is women stay home, And they're they're kind of

553
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: selling like the let's get back to the natural way

554
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: and it'll be easier, it'll be nicer for you. When

555
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: all this stuff was like built, it was societally made,

556
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: but they're selling it as like no, we're going against

557
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: the natural order and they're doing it through look at

558
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: the celebrity pop culture story.

559
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're also that also makes sense as to

560
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: why they also sell milkmaide style dresses. They also were like,

561
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: you know what traditional women might want to do, spend

562
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 3: two hundred dollars on a like frilly dairy dress that

563
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 3: the Cut describes as designed in the French countryside. It's

564
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: said to be inspired by the quote hardworking dairy maids

565
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 3: of the seventeenth century Europe and as handmade with quote

566
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: luxurious organic cotton and one hundred percent feminine energy. So

567
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, it's very much like tied up in

568
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: this kind of quote natural feminine. Honestly, the second that

569
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: I hear in any person or online place say something

570
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 3: like oh this has like the divine feminine, I'm like, okay.

571
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: Bull.

572
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 3: Like as soon as I hear that, I'm like, oh

573
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: really Okay.

574
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: In the back of my head, I'm like, so child

575
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: labor is what you're talking about. That's the amount energy

576
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 4: where they get SI paid two cents an hour.

577
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 5: Sweet.

578
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: Nothing says luxurious feminine energy like sane labor practices.

579
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 4: That's what I've always wanted. They get that from us anyway,

580
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 4: So stay at home moms who don't get paid it

581
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 4: is like the same life.

582
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 5: I guess that's the feminine energy.

583
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: So in addition to all of this, more problematically, they

584
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: also have a fertility app. So you're always telling you

585
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: how they're really not cool with birth control.

586
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: They have a fertility app called twenty eight.

587
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 3: The app is backed by tech billionaire and like Mega

588
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: Trump thunder Peter til I had to say, like, I

589
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 3: simply do not advocate for anyone using apps like this,

590
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: just in general, but especially not one backed by somebody

591
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: like Teal. I could do a whole episode. This is

592
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 3: where I will talk all day. I'll just say google him.

593
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: Uh he is like us, Like he's like if mister

594
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 3: Burns was a real person and also gay, Like that's how.

595
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: I would describe him. And there's so much to stay there.

596
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 4: But yeah, less he was still better and like he

597
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 4: had morals. Les Luthor had morals compared to him.

598
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, he is not He's a not only is he

599
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: a bad dude, he's also bad in some like ways

600
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 3: that if I talked about them here, you would be

601
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: like that sounds like something out of a comic book,

602
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: but it's real. Yeah. So he's one of the fund

603
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: one of the funders of their fertility app. They grew

604
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: interested in the women's fertility app space because many women.

605
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: Hugo Boom said, uh or that she knew we're having

606
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: trouble getting pregnant, and she said that she wanted to

607
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 3: develop a product that would quote empower women to understand

608
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 3: our bodies. Through some fortuitous networking, they ended up having

609
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 3: a meeting with Peter Teal and they asked him to

610
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 3: invest in a wellness app based on the typical twenty

611
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: eighth day menstruation cycle.

612
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: And Teal was like, is no one else doing this?

613
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: And it was like, no, no one else and he

614
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, well sounds like a good idea. A

615
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: spokesperson for TIL confirmed that he invested two million dollars

616
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: in the app and they raised three point two million

617
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 3: dollars in total. The app pushes a message that hormonal

618
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: birth control is bad for you, Goodbye toxicity. One advertisement

619
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: read for the birth control detox supplements it sells through

620
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 3: the app. I'm gonna say on my tech podcast.

621
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: There are no girls on the Internet.

622
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: I work with the producer who has a lot of

623
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: experience directly writing and reviewing privacy policies for digital health app.

624
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 3: So I asked him to take a look at twenty

625
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: eighth privacy policy.

626
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: And it wasn't great. Here's a go rundown of what

627
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: he told me.

628
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: He said the privacy policy doesn't emphasize going out of

629
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: their way to.

630
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: Protect users privacy.

631
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: Their section on third party tracking basically says that third

632
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: parties will have access to your personal data, but disavows

633
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: any responsibility for what those third parties do with that

634
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: personal data, so doesn't fill them with confidence. They put

635
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: a lot of responsibility on the end user. For example,

636
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: you can set your browser to refuse all or some

637
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: browser cookies, or alert you and cookies.

638
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: Are being sent.

639
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: He says, if they sincerely wanted to respect users right

640
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 3: to privacy rather than capture the value of their data

641
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: while disavowing any risk, twenty eight would describe strong, proactive

642
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: steps that they're taking to protect users personal data. Instead,

643
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 3: this privacy policy is all about mitigating their risk by

644
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: shifting it on to unspecified third parties and by shifting

645
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 3: it onto the user themselves. So, especially in a climate

646
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 3: where people are being criminalized for information like this, I

647
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: would not recommend anybody trust any of their sensitive intimate

648
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 3: data to an app without a very robust privacy policy

649
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 3: in place. I especially would not recommend that anybody give

650
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 3: that data to somebody that's connected to Peter Teel who

651
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 3: is connected to Donald Trump, Like that is just not

652
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 3: something I would recommend.

653
00:34:52,960 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: No Smindy signs off on that. So that's concerning. We've

654
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: got a lot of concerning things we've gone over. But

655
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: just to bring the point home, Bridget, what is what

656
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: is the big deal with EV and why is it

657
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: so problematic?

658
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, I think it's very problematic because listen,

659
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: there is nothing wrong with like online content that speaks

660
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 3: to all different kinds of women, all different kinds of

661
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 3: women's experiences and perspectives.

662
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 2: To me, the whole point.

663
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 3: Of being a feminist is that it allows for women

664
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: to choose paths and perspectives that work for them.

665
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 2: Right.

666
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: However, EV I find problematic because it is designed to

667
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: sell that lie I was talking about earlier, that lie

668
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: that makes women not being in the public and civic

669
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: sphere look glossy and glamorous, which isn't just wrong. It

670
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: can be dangerous, It can be hurtful. And even though

671
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: that is dangerous, it's also very enticing. Very I can

672
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 3: understand why that's appealing, especially in a climate right now

673
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 3: where everything.

674
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: Is confusing, everything is chaotic.

675
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 3: I can understand the desire for women to be like,

676
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 3: I just want my soft life at home. From that

677
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 3: piece quote, even critics of evy acknowledged the appeal of

678
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 3: its messaging. It's a perfectly pretty gateway drug to ideologies

679
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 3: which exist to protect the privilege and further disenfranchise the marginalized.

680
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 3: That's from Sarah Peterson, the author of the book Mo Influenced.

681
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 3: And I would say something that makes it even more

682
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 3: concerning to me is that when something is happening, and

683
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: it's happening in a space that has sort of been

684
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: relegated to women people, there's not really a lot of

685
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 3: eyes on it. There's an automatic assumption that it's like

686
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 3: just a fluffy, poppy space and what happens there doesn't

687
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 3: really matter to anybody, or is not of any consequence

688
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 3: to anybody. It's And so I think that because the

689
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 3: kind of people who care about extremism and media and

690
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 3: all of that might not be looking at a space

691
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: like ev online too hard, precisely because it speaks to women.

692
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 3: That means that EVE can advocate for positions that even

693
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: even conservatives would say are extreme and not really have

694
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 3: a lot of people pushing.

695
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: Back right, And so I think it's a really really.

696
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 3: Effective way of potentially radicalizing women into a pretty extreme ideology.

697
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 3: So we absolutely need to be paying attention to what

698
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 3: is happening in these online spaces. And probably my biggest

699
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: personal beef is that she's lying to us.

700
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: She is lying to women.

701
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 3: She has a very a very belittling attitude about women,

702
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 3: and that comes through so clearly in this piece.

703
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: So the founder that I've been talking.

704
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: About, Brittany Hugo Boom, she runs a media and tech

705
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 3: company that she says gets half a million eyeballs across

706
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 3: social media, while also saying, well also telling you other

707
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 3: women that, oh, you don't have we don't have the

708
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: aptitude to do exactly what it is that she is

709
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: doing successfully and making money from. When asked about women

710
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: running businesses and the piece, she said quote, I think

711
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 3: when most women try to do that, they fail, then

712
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: they feel upset about it when it's not really in

713
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 3: their nature. This is how she feels about women, And like,

714
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:14,959
Speaker 3: I know that to be a lie.

715
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 2: The reason why I know it to be a lie.

716
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 3: Is because she's doing it so like she knows it's

717
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: a lie too. She is lying to you to make

718
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: a buck, and that is ultimately my big beef with

719
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: this publication.

720
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 4: I think the conversation is always kind of funny. It's

721
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 4: that whole level of when marginalized communities have to compete

722
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 4: with each other and so they're gonna do everything they

723
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 4: can to get out their competition, instead of realizing that

724
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 4: the supremacy of men and white men are the actual competition.

725
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 4: And she's like, yeah, don't do this because you're not

726
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 4: going to be as good as I am. Obviously because

727
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 4: I'm white, I can't run a business. I'm white, I'm Christian,

728
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 4: and I got a Christian husband.

729
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: He knows well, Like it's really.

730
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 4: Fascinating because the again, when we had that conversation about

731
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 4: women in magazines, the influence of magazines is deep, is deep,

732
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 4: and it runs for years and years and years and years.

733
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 4: When we talk about a good housewife, we talked about

734
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 4: southern living like that those are core memories for me,

735
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 4: specifically about my mother and then from my mother's generation

736
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 4: that to them was the perfect life. So kind of

737
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 4: again that cyclical point of being like we need to

738
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 4: go back to the Southern living standard of housekeeping, which

739
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 4: means that women stay home and that is their full achievement,

740
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 4: is how they maintain their home. And it's interesting because

741
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 4: EVI is kind of bringing that back and understanding how

742
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 4: to indoctrinate young women, just like we've talked about young

743
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 4: men and podcasts. This is one of those forms of

744
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 4: understanding that, Okay, in order to radicalize young women, we're

745
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 4: going to do this, and we're going to do this

746
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 4: in the way of like reminding them of the good

747
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 4: old days that they don't know anything about. They have

748
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 4: a fantasy of whether it's watching Little House on the

749
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 4: Prairie or hearing about Little House on the Prairie, whatever

750
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 4: what not, and we're going to use that to tell

751
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 4: them they're going to fail, so why not try it

752
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 4: this way?

753
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: And you could see why that would be a really

754
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: compelling story.

755
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: Like like ing.

756
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 3: Again, like I have to be at somebody who a

757
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 3: lot of my I mean, I'm not a tradwife, but

758
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 3: I have a lot of treadwife interests and hobbies Like

759
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 3: I like preserving things, I like cooking from scratch, I

760
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: like gardening, I like all of that.

761
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: Like I can understand.

762
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 3: I just really see the ways that, especially right now,

763
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 3: we are selling women this very enticing lie that if

764
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 3: they actually buy, like buy, that it is incredibly dangerous.

765
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: Like there was a whole trend of like real treadwives,

766
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 3: women who really like left their left the working world

767
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: and got married and had kids and then like you know,

768
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: really relied on their their spouse for everything, talking about

769
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 3: how damaging it was for them and their children, like

770
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: there are real steaks women do this. And so I

771
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 3: don't think there's nothing wrong with being a stay at

772
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 3: home mom, a stay at home parent. Absolutely nothing wrong

773
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: with that, but we should not be glamorizing that without

774
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: also telling the truth about the reality of what that

775
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: looks like and the ways that can put you at

776
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 3: risk and what you should be doing to mitigate those.

777
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 4: Risks, right especially when we know right now lawmakers are

778
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 4: really trying to turn back that clock in that level

779
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 4: of taking rights away from women, making sure they can't vote,

780
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 4: taking their financial abilities as well, Like we're seeing that

781
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 4: is happening right now as they're trying to introduce this

782
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 4: intossentate to in order to go back to that, in

783
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 4: order to take away rights from women. And when we

784
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 4: were like Okay, cool. Some women obvious like well, like

785
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 4: they're like this this could be self life.

786
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we have to talk about it.

787
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 3: I have seen this, like threads of this attitude picking

788
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: up steam online with like younger and younger women. There's

789
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: that whole trend of like young girls wearing shirts that

790
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 3: are like, oh too pretty to work and things like that,

791
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 3: Like that might seem cute, but really, like really take

792
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: a step back and think, like, what is it that

793
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 3: we're advocating for. Are we advocating for systems that are

794
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 3: actually going to protect like like put us at risk

795
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: or protect us? Like I think that we, you know,

796
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: we we rightly talk a lot about the radicalization of

797
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 3: men and boys, we should also be talking about the

798
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 3: radicalization of women and girls through online content, because yeah,

799
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: I just think that we're setting up a generation of

800
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: women and girls to really put themselves at risk and

801
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 3: may not maybe not even realize the ways in which

802
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 3: they're doing that.

803
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and that's something Samantha and I have been

804
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: talking about a lot lately. So as always, Richie, every

805
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: time you come on, we're like, we have a million

806
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: other things where you need to talk about. So thank

807
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: you so much. For taking the time and bringing these

808
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: topics to us. We really appreciate it. Where can the

809
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: good listeners find you?

810
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 2: You can listen to my podcast. There are no our

811
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: girls on the internet.

812
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 3: New season is dropping on May fourteenth, so please check

813
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: it out. Yeah, they can follow me on Instagram at

814
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 3: bridget Marie and DC Yes.

815
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: And can't wait can't wait to do this again? Listeners

816
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: go check Bridget out on the podcast Excited for the

817
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: new season on social media or on other episodes of

818
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 1: Stuff We Never Told You and Yes. If you would

819
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: like to contact us you can. You can email us

820
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: a hello, a stuff Wenever Told You dot com. You

821
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: can find us on Blue skyte Mom Stuff podcast or

822
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff We Never Told You

823
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: for also on YouTube. We have te piplet store and

824
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get

825
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always start at superroducer Christina, executive

826
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: producer My and a contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks

827
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: to you for listening stuff on over told you this

828
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: prediction of by Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,

829
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,120
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830
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