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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt Noel is on

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Speaker 1: an adventure they called me Ben. We are joined as

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Speaker 1: always with our super producer Paul mission Controled decade. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you. You are here, and that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. We have a

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Speaker 1: special guest of sorts today, Matt, we do. We have

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Speaker 1: j J. Paseway. He's a new producer here at the

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio Network, the I Heart Radio Podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: That's a hard shrug you're doing there, man. Whatever this

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Speaker 1: thing is that we're a part of is called Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty pretty awesome. It's good to good to have

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Speaker 1: you here. J J. Apparently he knew like what this

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Speaker 1: show was before getting here, right, and we're still friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, he's like trip. He hasn't looked me in

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Speaker 1: the eye yet, just because I kind of like ran

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Speaker 1: into the studio right before we hit record. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I can't see him because my view of J J.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, he's looking at me. Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well you've got sort of blue steel vibe going on today,

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Speaker 1: so I can see how people would be, you know,

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Speaker 1: got you a little bit intimidated. Oh I'm feeling it.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling the blue steel. Yeah, I'm going for kind

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Speaker 1: of an eye of the tiger thing and I'm sort

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Speaker 1: of doing it. I'm pulling it off kind of. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing the intensity. So just to check in with you,

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Speaker 1: everything is good. We just had our big July four,

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Speaker 1: like I guess, weekend. Yeah, yeah, I have some some

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Speaker 1: traveling that I need to catch up on. But uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: July four America, right. I hope you had a good

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Speaker 1: weekend as well. And if you are listening in a

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Speaker 1: different country, July four, and I think it's weird for

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Speaker 1: us to assume everybody knows this. July four is when

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Speaker 1: the United States celebrates independence from Britain, right, And the

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Speaker 1: way in which the US most often tends to celebrate

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Speaker 1: this day is through getting kind of drunk, lighting fireworks

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Speaker 1: and having barbecues. There you go, and that's what some

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Speaker 1: of us did. That's very diplomatic. How you guys doing

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Speaker 1: out there in the booth, thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs up,

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Speaker 1: all the way comes up. That's great. And how are

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Speaker 1: you doing, folks out there listening to day? Uh? Do

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Speaker 1: you have something on your mind? How We're going to

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Speaker 1: investigate some pretty interesting stuff here that may be familiar

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Speaker 1: to some of us. If at any time while we're

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Speaker 1: exploring this strange rabbit hole, the spirit so moves you

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Speaker 1: when you have something on your mind that you want

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Speaker 1: to tell us and you don't wanna have to type

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Speaker 1: it out, they have no fear. You can pause, the

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Speaker 1: show will wait for you, and you can give us

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Speaker 1: a call. You can call us at one eight three

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Speaker 1: three S T D W I T K. You'll you'll

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Speaker 1: figure it out. You'll here, been on there, You'll know

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Speaker 1: you're in the right place. And I feel like we've

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Speaker 1: established the rules of the call I lied such that

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Speaker 1: at this point, you know, fill it up. Yeah, all

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Speaker 1: you have to do is call so. So we talked

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Speaker 1: at the top here just about how um, honestly odd

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Speaker 1: it is when someone, UM, I can't speak for you, Ben,

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Speaker 1: but it's an odd experience when someone recognizes your voice. UM.

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Speaker 1: And on this show, it's only happened to me a

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Speaker 1: handful of times. Um. I'm assuming that it's happened to

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Speaker 1: you more because you had a visual presence on this

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Speaker 1: show for so long, UM, and so many people watch

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Speaker 1: those videos. But today we're talking about the concept of

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Speaker 1: being known, of being recognized right to the nth degree.

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Speaker 1: As indeed, Matt, we are talking about the concept of celebrity.

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Speaker 1: Celebrity is really bizarre when you think about it. Since

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Speaker 1: before the dawn of recorded human history, we've looked to

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Speaker 1: place our beliefs and our values on the form of

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Speaker 1: a familiar face, something that is like us. Abstract ideas

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Speaker 1: are all well and good on their own, but generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: humans like other humans or things that look like humans,

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Speaker 1: and they want that to be sort of a coat

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Speaker 1: rack upon which ideas hang, something with which we can

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Speaker 1: directly identify. So for a lot of people, maybe during

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Speaker 1: the Cold War in the West, when they thought of communism,

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Speaker 1: they didn't think of a bunch of ideals written by

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Speaker 1: some stuffy, old dead European folks. They they thought about, uh,

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Speaker 1: specific propaganda image, maybe a soldier in red marching or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we are a symbol seeking being, uh, the human is,

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Speaker 1: and these celebrities a lot of times are the representations

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Speaker 1: of from propaganda. Are ways for us to quickly organize

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Speaker 1: the way we feel about something or the way way

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Speaker 1: we should feel about something, or way we actually do

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Speaker 1: feel about something or someone right. And we can be

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Speaker 1: blinded by this too, which is a bit of a

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Speaker 1: different bag of badgers for us. We can be blinded

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Speaker 1: by this in strange ways, and our brains are pretty

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Speaker 1: good at making things seem normal. So picture, imagine your mind,

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Speaker 1: the most famous person you can think of, the most

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Speaker 1: famous person, caveat who is alive today. If that person

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Speaker 1: said something that didn't gibe with what they usually say,

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Speaker 1: their die hard supporters are more likely to go along

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Speaker 1: with it because they identify with the person first interesting

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Speaker 1: and the idea that they have. You know, they can

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Speaker 1: be led along or let us stray someone see, just

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Speaker 1: by the way in which that person with whom they

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Speaker 1: identify says or explains a certain thing. And this is

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Speaker 1: why human beings love the concept of celebrities. In a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways, celebrities today are similar to deities in

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Speaker 1: ancient times. You know, people obsess over them. We perform

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Speaker 1: certain rituals, and that doesn't necessarily mean you know, you're uh,

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Speaker 1: sacrificing and got to Neil de grass Tyson or Bill

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Speaker 1: High or something. It can be as simple as checking

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Speaker 1: your Instagram stories every day or every couple of hours

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Speaker 1: or something right right. Or you always listen to a

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Speaker 1: song by your favorite musician when you're about to do

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Speaker 1: a thing, you know what I mean, Like you always

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Speaker 1: play on the Road Again by Willie Nelson when you're

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Speaker 1: on a road trip. So that's the first track at least,

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Speaker 1: right right exactly, So when we perform these rituals, we

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Speaker 1: feel a genuine personal connection with entities that we may

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Speaker 1: have never met and may well never meet an hour lifetime,

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Speaker 1: and who may not be anything like the representation that

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Speaker 1: exists on whatever medium you're consuming exactly. So it's no

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Speaker 1: wonder then that the world of celebrity is also a

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Speaker 1: world rife with conspiracy. A while back, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: bring this to your attention. A while back, Matt, you

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Speaker 1: and I did a strange video which I still think

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Speaker 1: holds up. Yeah, it's it's kind of ridiculous, But in

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Speaker 1: that video we have this sort of meet the team

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Speaker 1: kind of thing, right, and in there you have you

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Speaker 1: built this great chart, uh, supporting the notion that Paul

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Speaker 1: McCartney had died and been replaced by someone else. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember this. I do remember this and shout out

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Speaker 1: to Diana, my wife, because she gave me most of

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Speaker 1: the information that was included in that. She helped me

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Speaker 1: build that thing. She is she has an obsession like

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Speaker 1: we're talking about with the Beatles, whether living or dead,

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Speaker 1: and she knows so much. She basically was like, oh, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: here's all the things. You just put this on there,

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Speaker 1: put that on there, all cut all this stuff out here.

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Speaker 1: You got it. That's awesome, man, that's awesome. That video

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Speaker 1: is still around on our YouTube channel, which I missed,

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Speaker 1: by the way, for some reason. The main thing I

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Speaker 1: remember about that video is you holding some kind of

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Speaker 1: pipe and looking and explaining this conspiracy thing to me,

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Speaker 1: and then we're in a bathroom. Yeah, we realized we're

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Speaker 1: in a bathroom and you've been urinating the entire time.

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Speaker 1: That's right as it cuts over spoiler. Uh it is

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Speaker 1: safe for work. We should say that. We thought that

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Speaker 1: was hilarious. We hope you enjoy it. Maybe some of

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Speaker 1: our fellow long time listeners in the audience remember that

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Speaker 1: when today we're diving back into the world of celebrity conspiracy,

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Speaker 1: specifically the idea that some of the world's most famous

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Speaker 1: people have been secretly replaced by lookalikes, body doubles, dopplegangers,

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Speaker 1: who douple gangers. Who can I say it? So, guess what?

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts. It just doesn't sound the same

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Speaker 1: when you've got it. Here are the facts. When we

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Speaker 1: hear that word celebrity. You know, we've we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about this whole time. We're all on the same page.

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Speaker 1: We understand what that is. Somebody who is known a

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Speaker 1: famous person, an athlete, a musician and actor, maybe even

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Speaker 1: one of those insta fluencers. I don't even know how

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Speaker 1: you say it. Oh that's good, that's good, that exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: But but there's a there's a thing here, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's tough to differentiate, but we're going to try and

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Speaker 1: do it. Here between someone being uh, capital F famous.

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Speaker 1: It's not really capital, but let's just use a capital

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Speaker 1: F as in this person is known throughout the world

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Speaker 1: for some reason as a a human person that does things,

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Speaker 1: but then an internet famous person that is slightly different. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would, I would say so, I would completely agree

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Speaker 1: with that. So we're talking maybe about athletes, musicians, actors

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Speaker 1: and so on. That's often what we mean, right when

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Speaker 1: we say, as you say, capital F famous or heads

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Speaker 1: of states or heads of religions, people who are photographed

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Speaker 1: by other people all the time. And then we have

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Speaker 1: and then we have the thing where people are maybe

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Speaker 1: more famous in a specific field. That's probably where I

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Speaker 1: would put what we call instant fluencers or uh, very

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Speaker 1: very well known YouTubers who focus on a specific thing, right,

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Speaker 1: And of course we have to be honest. Podcasters fall

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Speaker 1: in that. There are some there are some maybe they

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Speaker 1: count as capital F famous people who are also podcasters,

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Speaker 1: but they're not famous for that makes sense. Thinking about

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Speaker 1: Will Ferrell right there, Oh that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he'll get into podcasts right now. I think it's just

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Speaker 1: Ron Burgundy. Oh yeah, exactly. So, so it's strange and

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Speaker 1: it's also, um, it's a bit unsettling the idea or

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Speaker 1: the notion of celebrity because it places hierarchical value on

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Speaker 1: people in a way that should not really exist. So,

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Speaker 1: with all that in mind, if we do a very

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Speaker 1: broad definition, if we sort of mash up those kind

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Speaker 1: of known in their field people and the worldwide known

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Speaker 1: people you know, the Michael Jackson's and so on. You

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Speaker 1: smash them all together into one thing. We can ask

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Speaker 1: ourselves how many people in this world, in one way

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Speaker 1: or another, would be considered amos. It's really really tough

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Speaker 1: to tell. Some, like you said, Matt, are known worldwide

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Speaker 1: as a kind of eternal position, like the pope changes,

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Speaker 1: but everybody is aware of the idea of the pope.

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Speaker 1: The pope is very very well known, not always very

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Speaker 1: very popular, but very very well known. And some people

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Speaker 1: are known more in their field of expertise. What's what's

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Speaker 1: someone who would be really specific field of expertise? We

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Speaker 1: know I'm thinking of scientists a lot of times, or

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Speaker 1: um like perhaps an FBI investigator that is known in

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Speaker 1: the true crime world and or the law enforcement field. Great, okay,

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Speaker 1: I've got one about Nobel Prize winners. So there's an

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Speaker 1: American astrophysicist, John C. Mather, who essentially proved that the

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Speaker 1: Big Bang was real, not just the theory. He is

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Speaker 1: very well known in his field. But you know, it's

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Speaker 1: difficult because if you ask the average this is not

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Speaker 1: a ding on the average person. If you ask the

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Speaker 1: average person name your two favorite astrophysicists. They might have

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Speaker 1: a tough time because most people's conversations are not going

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Speaker 1: to relate to that on a day to day basis.

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Speaker 1: So we have experts in their field, we have worldwide famous,

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Speaker 1: and then we have some infamous people like the child

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Speaker 1: molester Jeffrey Epstein. Oh, hey, it's not alleged. We don't

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Speaker 1: have to say alleged. Let's do an anti shout out

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Speaker 1: to you, Jeffrey Epstein for possibly actually facing charges and

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Speaker 1: going to jail. Maybe we'll see, we'll see. It's I

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Speaker 1: think at this point the money matters less than the

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Speaker 1: potential co conspirators who could be indicted. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be too skeptical about it, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's just so rare for people at that level

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Speaker 1: to go to jail, and especially after what happened last

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Speaker 1: time that we have a whole episode on about if

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Speaker 1: you're interested, but beware, you will throw things as you're

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Speaker 1: listening to it, right, And maybe it'll be like the

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Speaker 1: Westminster the Westminster child abuse circle where they tossed out

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Speaker 1: a few scapegoats posthumously, and then the people who are

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Speaker 1: implicated were also the people investigating it and nothing ever changed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I you know, hope springs eternal. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: So we've got those people infamous, the villains, the well

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Speaker 1: known experts in their field, the worldwide. Everybody knows who

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Speaker 1: that is kind of people. How do we tell how

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Speaker 1: many people in the world are are those sorts of folks? Well,

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Speaker 1: we we have some help here in this quest. Even

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Speaker 1: if it's not the perfect examination of it, it's it's

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Speaker 1: getting us somewhere. Right. There's this mathematician named Samuel Arbesman

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Speaker 1: who who took a pretty interesting approach in back inten

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Speaker 1: He looked at Wikipedia and they have this thing on

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Speaker 1: there called living People. It's a category in which you

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Speaker 1: can kind of search and navigate through. And at the

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Speaker 1: time that the count in the number of living people

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Speaker 1: was just over six hundred thousand, six hundred four thousand,

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Speaker 1: one seventy four. And he, uh, you know, he even

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Speaker 1: admitted when with his own study and everything he was doing,

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Speaker 1: that Wikipedia is no notability standard was pretty low. Uh

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Speaker 1: as when it came to like who is famous, who

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Speaker 1: is not famous? Who is worthy of being on Wikipedia? Right,

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Speaker 1: some of our co workers are in Wikipedia. I don't

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Speaker 1: think we are, but so our co workers are, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are not Josh and Chuck. I believe you're on there,

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Speaker 1: and I think maybe Holly and Tracy. That makes sense.

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Speaker 1: The question here is how many of these over six

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand people has everyone heard of? Could one person

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Speaker 1: have heard of them all? That is doubtful. It's just

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Speaker 1: so many people. But with this in mind, we can,

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Speaker 1: at least, as Absmen puts it, get a hint of understanding.

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Speaker 1: We can. We can get a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: spider sense or a guestament about how common fame is

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Speaker 1: in the world. And so here's our shortcut works. He

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Speaker 1: divided the famous people count by the global population in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, which was seven point oh six billion, approximately,

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Speaker 1: and then with that math he got the number of

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Speaker 1: point zero zero eight six percent, so much less than

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Speaker 1: one percent, which is probably good for everybody's sanity, right,

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Speaker 1: and probably bad for the celebrity stalker industry, but you know,

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Speaker 1: they're just gonna have to deal with it. This number

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Speaker 1: is not ironclad by any means, but it's still pretty

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Speaker 1: fascinating because it tells us when we're talking about possible

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Speaker 1: celebrity doppelgangers, were also talking about a very small subset

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Speaker 1: of an already very tiny slice of humanity, and based

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Speaker 1: on that fact alone, we might think initially, we might

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Speaker 1: think it would be easy to spot an impersonator or

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Speaker 1: a replacement. You know, there's someone saying I am the

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Speaker 1: number one, Uh, car Carly ray Jepson fan. Is that

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Speaker 1: a person? I think? So. I don't know who it is,

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Speaker 1: but I've heard that name before. Okay, so someone loves

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Speaker 1: this person, Carly ray Jepson. They say, I've got all

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Speaker 1: of her albums or videos, whatever, what is she is?

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Speaker 1: She's done it. If it's in the public sphere, then

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Speaker 1: I have it, says the super fan. So I would

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Speaker 1: notice immediately a change, even if those filthy, casual Carly

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Speaker 1: ray Jepson fans don't understand the magnitude of my work. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Then we could go a bit further and assume the

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Speaker 1: average living celebrity will tend to be photographed and filmed

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Speaker 1: more often than the average non celebrity, right, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it would have to be, or would it. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of the things we've been discussing thus

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Speaker 1: far are our assumptions. We're making assumptions based on you know,

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Speaker 1: evidence and numbers and our own experiences, but they are assumptions.

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Speaker 1: But really think about it, if we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: current president or any president, or maybe some daytime news hosts. Many,

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Speaker 1: many famous people have entire groups of people teams who

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Speaker 1: are controlling their images. They have offices built around managing

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Speaker 1: the icon that is their very own celebrity, that is

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Speaker 1: a pr little gem or something that they get to

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Speaker 1: show around. And um, it may actually be easier for

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Speaker 1: a celebrity to be replaced because in many ways they've

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Speaker 1: they've already been replaced by all of these images of

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Speaker 1: of themselves, these versions, these virtual versions of themselves that

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Speaker 1: are out there. Sure, you know, they've had different haircuts

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Speaker 1: over you know, the time that they've been famous. They

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Speaker 1: wear a lot of different outfits, They go to all

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Speaker 1: these different places and do different things. Um, celebrities. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a good point. On the celebrities were

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Speaker 1: more tightly controlled that one might imagine. When we say replaced,

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Speaker 1: we don't necessarily mean somebody's cutting off their fingers one

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Speaker 1: by one and sticking other people's fingers on their hands,

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Speaker 1: but that would be interesting. They live by scripts a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, even if it's not their own intention,

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Speaker 1: Like their words may not be their own, and words

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Speaker 1: maybe written by publicists or speechwriters or social media gurus.

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Speaker 1: Their candid selfies are often carefully orchestrated by professional photographers,

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Speaker 1: and their trends and attitudes or their public stances may

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Speaker 1: be dictated by deep dive marketing research indicating the most

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Speaker 1: attention grabbing responses, opinions, or hot takes of the day,

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Speaker 1: or for some movie that they're about to put out.

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Speaker 1: They have to say certain things or be careful not

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Speaker 1: to say other things. So it might not be as

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Speaker 1: difficult for a celebrity to be taken out and replaced.

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Speaker 1: It might not be as difficult as it initially sounds,

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Speaker 1: because let's admit it sounds kind of out there. But

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Speaker 1: the question is, could it really happened? Could some celebrity

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Speaker 1: known around the world actually be replaced? And if so,

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Speaker 1: how and if so why? And we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about that after a quick word from our sponsor. Here's

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Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. We were talking about this earlier

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Speaker 1: off air. Body doubles are real stuff happened, yeah, oh

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Speaker 1: for real in in two places, and the first one

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Speaker 1: is one that you already know about. There are body

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Speaker 1: doubles in Hollywood in filmmaking for sure, Yeah, yeah, good call.

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Speaker 1: When when you're thinking about stunt doubles and stand ins,

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Speaker 1: there are there are people whose job it is to

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Speaker 1: to look like a celebrity and either stand in light

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Speaker 1: to make sure that it looks good with the costume

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Speaker 1: or something. And then also people who get paid to

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Speaker 1: do very dangerous, sometimes terrifying things and they look like

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Speaker 1: at least similar to a celebrity exactly, and they're but

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Speaker 1: they're publicly acknowledged. They're publicly acknowledged, but you won't know

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Speaker 1: who they are unless you're a huge fan of stunt

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Speaker 1: doubles or you know a person of a celebrity and

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Speaker 1: also know their stunt double or a team of stunt doubles. Um.

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Speaker 1: But but in there's another case here, and it's politics,

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Speaker 1: and that's when you have a huge state actor, a

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Speaker 1: figure that's known really, really well, but it is also

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Speaker 1: in danger of being assassinated or at least harmed, right right,

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Speaker 1: So one of the most famous cases would be Joseph Stalin.

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Speaker 1: He was a real pill. He implemented uh controversial plots

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Speaker 1: against citizens of the Soviet Union, even ministers and folks

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Speaker 1: who are in his inner circle was the leader. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: people who opposed him were executed after a fake trial

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Speaker 1: on a good day. Other days they just disappeared, and

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Speaker 1: we mean disappeared from history. They were removed from official photographs,

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Speaker 1: real devious stuff. Stalin increased the role of the Soviet

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Speaker 1: secret police as he became the absolute power in the thirties,

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Speaker 1: and it made sense for him to use these political

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Speaker 1: decoys because he was protecting himself from his growing list

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Speaker 1: of enemies. We don't know how many body doubles he had.

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Speaker 1: He definitely had more than one. We know about two

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Speaker 1: for sure. One was a double named Rashid, and he

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Speaker 1: was dismissed from the army because he looked too much

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Speaker 1: like Stalin. He went home, government agent came to recruit him,

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Speaker 1: and he became a sit in for the dictator at

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Speaker 1: meetings and banquets. Somehow he survived being in close proximity

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Speaker 1: to Stalin, and he died in nine at the ripe

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Speaker 1: old age of ninety three. So well done, Rashid, good

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Speaker 1: job staying alive. We also, I do have to mention,

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Speaker 1: we also have a episode of ridiculous history that's entirely

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Speaker 1: about body doubles in the political sphere, so it listen

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Speaker 1: to a little bit more of this, but he is

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Speaker 1: again just one of Stalin's body doubles. There's one that's

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Speaker 1: a little more well known. I would say, oh, yeah, somebody,

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Speaker 1: how do you say his name, Felix Dade? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's good. Oh yeah. So you can head

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Speaker 1: on over and listen to that episode of Ridiculous History now,

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Speaker 1: or you can hear this abridged version right now. Oh.

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Speaker 1: This is one small fact about dadyev. He was so

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Speaker 1: good that in nineteen forty five he was flown to

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Speaker 1: Yalta and he met with President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill,

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Speaker 1: whoa after the after the during the postwar reorganization was

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Speaker 1: it was it as the double, it was Stalin. They

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Speaker 1: thought they thought he was Stalin. Oh my god, which

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Speaker 1: I mean, well done. Right. Yeah. So this is one example.

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Speaker 1: But then we also have the examples from the Middle East,

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Speaker 1: most famously Iraq. Yes, Saddam Hussein and one of his

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Speaker 1: sons were really really big big body double fans. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Let's see. Let's see. We've got some quotes here that

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Speaker 1: come from inverse dot com. This says the late Rocky

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Speaker 1: dictator reportedly employed a roster of body doubles when you know,

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Speaker 1: when he was ruling, and when we say roster here,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about one or two really good body doubles.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about a dozen dozen this perhaps of people

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Speaker 1: who looked similarly enough to him that they were employed

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Speaker 1: throughout his rule. Right, He was a prolific fan of

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Speaker 1: body doubles, and people would observe this very very close

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Speaker 1: eye on it, especially these tensions were ratcheting up in

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Speaker 1: that part of the world, and they would they would

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Speaker 1: read some more or less kind of read tea leaves

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Speaker 1: and try to interpret smaller clues like the way his

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Speaker 1: bodyguards acted. You know, did they act differently around the

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Speaker 1: true dictator than they did around his body double. Saddam

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Speaker 1: was reportedly possessed of a little bit of an ego,

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Speaker 1: and he was a big fan of close ups, and

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Speaker 1: so people began to think, well, if he doesn't get

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Speaker 1: his close up in during one of his many speeches

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Speaker 1: and proclamations, that means it's a body double. People were

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Speaker 1: so worried about this that in two thousand three, when

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Speaker 1: he was captured, then Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld had

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Speaker 1: to like go out and address concerns that they may

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Speaker 1: have nabbed a decoy and was you know, they were

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Speaker 1: figuring out ways to determine whether this was the real

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Speaker 1: Saddam Hussaying and this practice continued. Oh and just to

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Speaker 1: jump in there, I remember in two thousand three when

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Speaker 1: Saddam was captured, thinking that's not the real Saddam Hussein.

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Speaker 1: And I was very skeptical of it. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: I didn't know who. I wasn't thinking about it at

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Speaker 1: that level at this point, but I was aware just

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Speaker 1: through pop culture that he that said i'mous saying did

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Speaker 1: employe body doubles and his oldest son, Uday Hussein was

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Speaker 1: a monster, and that doesn't have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: his practice. He it looks like he learned from dear

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Speaker 1: old dad and he started using body doubles as well.

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Speaker 1: There was a guy named Latif who said he went

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Speaker 1: to school with dude Hussaying and in night he was

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Speaker 1: enlisted to be Huday's body double. Non consensually. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: in Iraq, you there's this mandatory thing where you have

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00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: to join the military when you reach a certain age,

427
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: and U Day's body double. But was basically told, yeah,

428
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: you are going to join as U Day. And that's it.

429
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: That's what's what, that's what's happening. And the guy who

430
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: was Day's body double survived, escaped rock and it was

431
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: even a movie made about his story called The Devil's Double. Yeah,

432
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, he has one man, the person

433
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: that we're talking about, and he had some stories to tell.

434
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: He had a lot of claims and it's difficult to

435
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: you know, back a lot of that up with hard facts.

436
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: But again, this is a person who experienced them and

437
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: then his claiming to have experienced them. But he said

438
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: he got shot over twenty five times twenty how many times?

439
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Twenty six times? Twenty six times while he was impersonating

440
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: the son of the Iraqi dictator as well as um

441
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: something else crazy. Oh he he was describing U Day

442
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: as essentially someone who was off his rocker. Oh yeah,

443
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: incredibly violent and enjoyed torturing people, like really enjoyed it.

444
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: And you know, it's tough because that's one person's opinion.

445
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about him. I've seen other documentation

446
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: of other people claiming very similar things, so I'm inclined

447
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: to believe it. Okay, that's very fair of you. I

448
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: just want to go on record he did torture, be abominable,

449
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: unforgivable things. We're talking repeat sexual assaults, we're talking murdering

450
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: people for the for the thrill of it, like the

451
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: old Diet coke commercial jingle. It's not surprising that he

452
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: would have a body double because there were many, many

453
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: people who wanted him dead for his many many a procities. Okay,

454
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: it's just it's like to the point where it's a

455
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: lot of work for one dude. Oh, dude, I hear you.

456
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: For me, it's trusting. You know any Western source that

457
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: would say that about somebody you know like that, you

458
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: know me, really good point. It's just it's hard for

459
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: me to know where the line is of what's true,

460
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't disbelieve that he did some

461
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: pretty terrible things. Yeah, I see, But was it exaggerated

462
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: for propaganda purposes and so on? It's a good question.

463
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: There is another question that we should address, which is

464
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: how many more suspected body doubles are out there. According

465
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: to Joe are Reader, who was a former undersecretary for

466
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: the U. S. Army in two thousand one, he said

467
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: that many many world leaders had used body doubles to

468
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: escape capture. He said, Osama bin Laden used body doubles

469
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: man Well Noriega uh, Fidel Castro and more. And there

470
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: were even rumor is that Hitler used a body double

471
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: to escape death. That is a story for another day.

472
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty sure a whole episode on that.

473
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: Check it out if you're if you're interested, it's pretty compelling.

474
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, Argentina. I mean, yeah, Nazi Nazi Party

475
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: members did escape there through the ratlines, right, they certainly did. So.

476
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: We also know that body doubles were used in ancient times,

477
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: not even really in ancient times. That were used up

478
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: until the widespread dissemination of photography, right and a v equipment,

479
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: So it became easier to say, oh, no, no, no no, no,

480
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: I've seen a picture of the emperor and you do

481
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: not talk like him, you do not look like him, You, sir,

482
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: are an impostor. Yeah. Basically, any way to record image

483
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: or sound, right, because if you're just dealing with an

484
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: illustration and a written document, even that has quotations or

485
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: something in it, that's the only way to know the

486
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: even the president like George Washington. Imagine how many people

487
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: in the United States actually saw George Washington, and then

488
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: most of what people in the public knew of him

489
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: throughout the world were drawing our paintings, illustrations, paintings, any

490
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: image of him that was just created from another person's

491
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: imagination through looking at him exactly. And now that we

492
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: have access to these amazing surveillance devices called smartphones, it's

493
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: very very easy to not only take pictures of people,

494
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: but to find pictures of people, and they don't have

495
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: to be famous. So it seems like we're back to square.

496
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: What how would you effectively fool people if you were

497
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: a politician and athlete, musician and actor and so on

498
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: and so on in this in this world where it's

499
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: much easier to verify this, it turns out that the

500
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: same technology that made body doubles and impersonations more difficult

501
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: for a time may make it much easier. And we'll

502
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: we'll we'll explore why after a word from our sponsor.

503
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: All Right, that's a bit of a bait and switch,

504
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: because we have to get to celebrity body doubles. This

505
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: is the meat of what we are. This is this

506
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: is the meat of the conspiracy burger. Okay, I didn't

507
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: eat lunch today. I'm just these are all going to

508
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: be food comparisons. Me neither, and I'm right there with you.

509
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: I would like to add some biber bacon on top

510
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: of whatever this sandwich slash hamburger we're creating here. And really,

511
00:32:54,400 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: there's an entire industry out there of people impersonating celebrities. Really, yeah,

512
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: and and it's it's what we were talking about right

513
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: before the break to your your phone, Instagram, Facebook, social media.

514
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: On the streets of New York City. There are people

515
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: in in l A, my god, just everywhere. Um. There

516
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: are people who impersonate singers and go do shows. There

517
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: are people who impersonate actors and do events. There are

518
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: there are people who impersonate fictional characters. I have some

519
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: pretty good friends who impersonate Bill Murray. Not yet, no

520
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: I had I think that was just him. I think

521
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: that was Bill. Really, no one will ever believe us,

522
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: but but he knows some people who, for instance, appear

523
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: at functions, children's parties and stuff as you know, Cinderella

524
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: or as snow White or something. I also have friends

525
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: who do this. Yeah, and that that seems like a

526
00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: really wholesome gig. We're not talking about the was kind

527
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: of impersonators. We're not talking about someone who is doing

528
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: a spot on kiss cover band or something. We're talking

529
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: about impersonators who replace celebrities in a way for the

530
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: purposes of crime. And this goes back to the biber

531
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: bacon that you mentioned earlier. Yea more of a biberrito,

532
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: right it is a yeah, the biberrito comes after the bacon,

533
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: so the bacon is um. Actually it's terrible to call

534
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: that because I'm a big fan of bacon. Big ups

535
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 1: to you, Bacon, just for existing and being and even

536
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: though you're terrible for me and for the environment and

537
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: all of those things, thank you for providing your oils

538
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: with which to cook other things. Okay, let's just go

539
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: and get on here. So you may you may love

540
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, you may loathe him. Either way, there's no

541
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: denying that this guy, the image of him, his voice,

542
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: everything about him extremely extremely popular, and specifically with younger women,

543
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: younger girls, teenage girls in particular. And there's this man

544
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: named Leem wir m o I R. He's thirty, he

545
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: was thirty four years old, and he really capitalized on

546
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber's popularity and not in a good way. No,

547
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: he would pretend to be this teenager justin Bieber online

548
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: and he would talk to teenage fans and he would

549
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: start hounding them for money and then explicit sexual videos

550
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: of themselves. If they didn't send him money, then he

551
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: would say that he was going to post their videos online.

552
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: This guy is an uber creep, and you have to

553
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: imagine how emotionally traumatizing that is. If you're a huge

554
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 1: super fan and fav singer, you have, like maybe it's

555
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 1: your first crush or something, and you think that this

556
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: person is asking you an underage person, a child, for

557
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: what nude videos or something, and then for some reason

558
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: it's got has got to be at least a multimillionaire

559
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: is shaking you down for cash. Hopefully you know you.

560
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: You'd think that someone would recognize that, but again that

561
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: that kind of fog of celebrity. It's powerful, right, and

562
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: some people start successful criminal careers by rinsing and repeating

563
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: this sort of tactic. There's an I person here named

564
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: Emma Charlton who posed as a Vanity Fair editor Anna Wintour,

565
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: the one the one who occurs in that film The

566
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: Devil Wears Product. So Charlton tricked this guy into falling

567
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: in love marrying her, and then she just robbed and blind.

568
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: It turned out she had a long history of im

569
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: personating other people, some famous and fleecing, fleecing various dudes

570
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: that I thought they were in love with her. So

571
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: those are pretty dark. That's still not quite what we're

572
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: what we're getting at, right, Let's let's go to something

573
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 1: a little bit softer just for a second, right, because

574
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: people also impersonate celebrities for the purpose of pranking. Right, Yeah,

575
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: there was there was this thing that occurred back in

576
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: where this picture of Justin Bieber was going all around

577
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: the internet. I think we may have mentioned it in

578
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: passing before on this show. This is what I meant

579
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: by biberrito, Yes, exactly where it was. It was a

580
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: photograph of Justin Bieber wearing a hat, sunglasses, and a hoodie,

581
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: and he was eating a burrito from the center of

582
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: the burrito rather than at one of the ends. And

583
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: it was supposedly taken by some passersby while Justin Bieber

584
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: was enjoying a burrito just out in the park somewhere,

585
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: and it got retweeted so many, Like I don't even

586
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: know exactly how many times, thousands and thousands of times.

587
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: It was posted on all kinds of different blogs and

588
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: it became, I guess, a trending thing that was occurring.

589
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: But it turned out that it was literally just some pranksters, uh,

590
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: that we're pretending to be Justin bieber um and that's

591
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: all it was the entire time. But you think that

592
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: you'd think that with the number of people who know

593
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 1: who this kid is. Who are this guy Justin Bieber?

594
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: I guess he's a bit older now, but who knows

595
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: who he is. They know exactly what he looks like.

596
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: You'd think that somebody somewhere would have figured out that

597
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: that wasn't him. But it didn't happen until these guys

598
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: posted a YouTube video explaining exactly what they did and

599
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: how they did it. Wow. I guess the reaction was

600
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: just so attention grabbing right. Well, and think about this

601
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: around you, on your social media, whatever you're using, everyone

602
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: is believing that this is an actual picture of Justin Bieber.

603
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: So you almost don't even question or you don't question

604
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: it whatsoever. You just take it for granted. Oh that's

605
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber that's weird. I'm gonna be honest with you, Matt,

606
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna lay it all out on the table.

607
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: I confess to you. I know ding on the guy,

608
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: but I am not typically in a situation where my

609
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: my Bieber count is very very low on a day

610
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: to day basis. Oh yeah, your encounters with the Beebes

611
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: the Beebes, Yeah, is that a thing? The Beebster? I

612
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Justin Oh all right, Well,

613
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 1: you know I wish him the best of luck in

614
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: his career because it's tough work to be a musician.

615
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: I'll tell you this tremendous respect for Justin Bieber on

616
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: this side over here, even though he did he caught

617
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: up doing a lot of things that that has been.

618
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: That's a little kid that has been fighting through the

619
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: music industry since he was a little kid. That's so

620
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: very kind of you. I mean, come on, I don't

621
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: have a statement because I I just don't know much

622
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: about it. But but we see how even a very

623
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: well known person can be uh can be impersonated very seriously.

624
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't matter how famous you are. Maybe

625
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: to your point about social media, it could make it easier.

626
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: Now we get to the stuff that people will tend

627
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: to dismiss out of hand. What if a celebrity was

628
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: not consensually impersonated, right, What if they were murdered and

629
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: replaced somehow taken out. This brings us to twenty fifteen

630
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: when buzzfeeds Ryan Broderick found a Brazilian blog called Avril

631
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: is Dead, referring to the musician Avril Levine. The idea

632
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: is in the blog not Avril Levine got famous in

633
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: the early two thousand's, and then she was emotionally overwhelmed.

634
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: Her grand father passed away, and she died by suicide

635
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: right after the release of her first album, which was

636
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: called Let Go. Oddly enough, according to this theory, the

637
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: record company, the record label did not let Go because

638
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: the first album was so successful. They said, Okay, we

639
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: can just get someone who looks kind of like her,

640
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: a doppelganger, and keep the machine going, keep the keep

641
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: the money coming. In a little while later, Avril Levine

642
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: finally addressed this idea, and she said in an interview

643
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: on an Australian radio station k i I S, for

644
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: anyone interested the host aster, did you laugh at the

645
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: rumors that went around where you no longer exist? And

646
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: there's a clone of you, to which aver applies. Yes,

647
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: some people think that I'm not the real me, which

648
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 1: is so weird, Like why would they even think that?

649
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 1: For supporters of this theory there, you know, you're probably

650
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 1: white knuckled right now with your hands on the steering

651
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: wheel or whatever, and you're saying, of course that's what

652
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: the clone would say. Yeah exactly, But you know, uh,

653
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: as weird as it sounds, imagine just put yourself in

654
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: the shoes of some record company. Um. Now this is

655
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: gonna sound weird, but just imagine this. You're the head

656
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: of a record label. You just had one of the

657
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: most popular albums ever come out, or at least within

658
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: the past like a couple of years, um, come out

659
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: on your label, and it's this one singer songwriter that

660
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: is going to make you. You You know, they've made you

661
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: millions of dollars, They're gonna make you millions and millions

662
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: of dollars with their next album and everything. What if

663
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: that person dies and it's kept quiet enough to where

664
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: you think, well, maybe we can put out another album.

665
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: I mean, that's insane to think about. Like, what would

666
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: you do given the opportunity? Right exactly, You already have

667
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: millions of dollars. You're going you're set to make millions more,

668
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars. Um, What would you do

669
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: to continue that money flowing in? I don't know. That's

670
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: one of those age old questions. Why do powerful rich

671
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: people do some of the things that they get accused

672
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: of and sometimes uh convicted for? Anyway, So it goes

673
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: to um Black Mirror. Have you seen Season five? Black Mirror?

674
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: So there're only three episodes, but one of them features

675
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: Miley Cyrus and in it she plays a pop star

676
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: called Ashley Oh. And this pop star spoilers by the

677
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: way ahead right after this three to one spoilers. So

678
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: she gets placed in a medically induced coma by her

679
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: management team essentially her aunt and some other people working

680
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: for her, and then they want to replace this pop

681
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: star with an AI. Essentially it's called Ashley Too, but

682
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: it's created from this weird, little, compartmentalized, pr friendly version

683
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: of Ashley Oh's personality. Yeah, the hardware they start off

684
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: with is I very rarely use this word, but it's

685
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: kind of cute. Oh the little tiny Yeah, no, I agreed,

686
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: but in this case they're gonna make use of holograms

687
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,959
Speaker 1: and Ashley Oh's personality to basically replace the pop star

688
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 1: uh completely And it feels a lot like this story

689
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: with Avril Levine, like to continue the money flowing in,

690
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: they would do whatever they needed to do to make

691
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: this person at least seem real, right, right, and they

692
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: would be able to apply near future technology. Yeah, and

693
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: it's you know, but it's not the first time some

694
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: pop star has been, you know, accused of being not

695
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: the real one, right, that's correct. This one is for you, Diana,

696
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: although working with us on that previous video, I'm pretty

697
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: sure you know all of all of this already. That's

698
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: September nineteen, a rumor that Paul McCartney, famed member of

699
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: the Beatles, had died, began spreading across college campuses in

700
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: the States. These rumors expanded they were there was a

701
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: snowball aggregate effect because people felt they were finding more

702
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: and more clues hidden in album covers and in Beatles songs,

703
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: and clue hunting was infectious, addictive, and fun. Within a

704
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: few weeks, this blows up at its global for most people.

705
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: This craze was short lived, and Paul McCartney, if it

706
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: is him, has an interview where he says, no, I've

707
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: I've been taking some family time. I've been in Scotland, Kenya,

708
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: places like that. I've been kind of off the grid

709
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm massively rich. Yeah, and I can

710
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: just go places like that. John Lennon is very stressful

711
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: to work with. That's pretty obvious, right, I mean, yeah,

712
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: I know McCartney also has his quirks. Sure, sure, that's true.

713
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: Just trying to give John Letton benefit of the doubt, Okay,

714
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: right right, I mean right, that's that's true. Well, McCartney, though,

715
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: he has this interview in Life magazine where he's like,

716
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, very much alive or whatever and just hoped

717
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: over to Scotland year And despite denying the rumors, the

718
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: exaggerated rumors of his death in a very Mark Twain

719
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: esque way, Uh, McCartney still had to confront these things.

720
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: People said that he was a lookalike. His real name

721
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: was William Shears Campbell or William Shepherd. William Campbell allegedly

722
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: became Billy shears On Sergeant Pepper, and William Shephard was

723
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: supposedly the inspiration behind the continuing story of Bungalow Bill.

724
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: That's awesome. It's a weird one. Hello, Bill, were you

725
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: listen to a lot of Beatles at my house? To

726
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 1: all of this stuff rings so true to me? Ah,

727
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: I love it? So how did this? How did this

728
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: one start? Oh? There's an article it's called is Beatle

729
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney Dead? And it was written September seventeenth, nineteen

730
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 1: sixty nine this gentleman named Tim Harper, who was the

731
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: editor of the Drake Times Delphic. It was a student

732
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: newspaper of Drake University over in Des Moines, Iowa. Now

733
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: this article, it, uh, it addressed the rumor, essentially the

734
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: rumor mill that was kind of going around the school

735
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: that all these clues, if you put them together, it

736
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: means that Paul McCartney has somehow died. And let's let's

737
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: look at some of these uh messages here. So it

738
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: includes a message that says, turn me on, dead man.

739
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: And this comes from the White album from the song

740
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: Revolution nine. And it's when you play it backwards. It's

741
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: that old backwards masking thing that we've talked about before.

742
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: And uh, this uh apparently if you like look at

743
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: all of the rumors and the things that were published,

744
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 1: if you try to trace it all the way back.

745
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: You get to this article, the the one that we

746
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 1: just mentioned in Iowa, right right right by Tim Harper. So,

747
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: according to music journalist Merrill Nowdon, this was the first

748
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: published work on the idea that Paul McCartney was dead

749
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: because of some backward masks lyrics turned me on dead man.

750
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: It's weird, weird flex So we have let's do one

751
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: more example. What about Abbey Road? He wasn't wearing shoes

752
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: and he was smoking. What about Abbey Road? Just saying

753
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: you didn't standing with four people who all looked kind

754
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: of like what you gotta differentiate yourself. But just Paul,

755
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, man. What about that car crash? I

756
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: don't know. He wasn't a car crash, and as many

757
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. So I have got to say a

758
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: lot of people still think that is a fringe theory,

759
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: among them being the man who, as we record this podcast,

760
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: claims to be Paul Paul McCartney. He would say he

761
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,439
Speaker 1: claims to be that because he is Paul McCartney. Yeah,

762
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: he would. It's I I am profoundly inspired by your

763
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: commitment to this. I know it's do you seriously think

764
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: it's the case I don't I will, I will. I

765
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: will send you and Diana on an adventure in a

766
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: foreign country if it turns out that he is not

767
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: really Paul McCartney. Okay, accepted deal. I will work will

768
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: be to prove that that is not Paul. Uh. So

769
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: we'll do one more before Matt Diana put me in

770
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: the poorhouse, and that is Taylor Swift. People, this is

771
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: a weird one. I felt people were arguing, based entirely

772
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: on the photographs, that Taylor Swift is in fact the

773
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: clone of a former Satanic priestess. Yeah, right, as you do.

774
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 1: This dates back to two thousand and eleven, and people

775
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: say that Swift is actually a clone of one Zena

776
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: love A, the daughter of the founder of the Church

777
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: of Satan, Anton LaVey. And there are a bunch of

778
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: videos on YouTube comparing the two. I would suggest I

779
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: would take a look at them if you want. They

780
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 1: don't look very similar. But a lot of that is interpretive,

781
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: and I the beholder and so on. So right now,

782
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem that there's too much sand to the

783
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: idea that celebrities could be killed, replaced, or taken out.

784
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: We're not quite at that black mirror level, yet at

785
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: least not in person. It is going to happen, though

786
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: it's going to happen, it's not gonna maybe happen in person,

787
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: but we are in the world of deep fakes. What

788
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: is what is deep fake? Aside from another episode, well so, yeah,

789
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: that's a way to digitally manipulate the sound and image

790
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: on you know, in digital photography and audio, to make

791
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: it seem as though a person, in this case a

792
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: celebrity or well known individual is saying or doing something

793
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: that they are actually not. And it's quite effective. If

794
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: you go back to I'm by the way just watching Mr.

795
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 1: Robots season three and back in season two, they had

796
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: just a quick little piece of video that happens on

797
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,399
Speaker 1: a television screen where President Obama is talking and he

798
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: mentions one of the characters, Tyrrell Wellick and it at

799
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 1: the time in I remember being taken aback by it,

800
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 1: I didn't understand, like, how did they get the president

801
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: to say that? Why would they why would he agree

802
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: to that? What do you pay a president when he

803
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: makes a quick little cameo counterpoint? You don't pay presidents.

804
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: You donate to their foundations, charities and campaign funds. There

805
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: you go, there you go. I was perplexed by it,

806
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 1: and I I remember I think we even I can't

807
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: remember we mentioned it on the show like when it

808
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: came out, but we we have talked about it since then.

809
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: And you can see there are YouTube channels online with

810
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: the deep fakes that are super just believable and scary,

811
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: making putting other people's faces on bodies, making those bodies

812
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: say things, putting words into the mouths of other people

813
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: who are being interviewed. If you if you want to,

814
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: let's just stay on the President Obama thing. If you

815
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 1: go to two years later, after the Mr. Robots Season

816
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: two things, you go to this video that Jordan Peel

817
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: made and he he impersonated President Obama quite a bit

818
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 1: in his career, or he continues to do that, but

819
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: for a while there was one of uh, you know,

820
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: one of the funniest things he was doing. At least

821
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: according to me, he nailed the voice, just so so

822
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: good with the voice. Well, he made a video of

823
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: him talking and a deep faked video of President Obama

824
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: saying all the things that Jordan Peel was saying. I

825
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: remember that, yeah, And it was in warning to everyone

826
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: that you have to really trust the news sources that

827
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: you look at. You have to trust the videos you've watched.

828
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: Um and it's becoming harder and harder to do that.

829
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: I would say the ups, I would say, you have

830
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: to distrust more stuff. Well, yeah, you you have to

831
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: trust the humans that are behind the things, right exactly,

832
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: You have to trust the source or you have to

833
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: at least do your own due diligence on this. And Hollywood,

834
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: of course, it's very, very excited over the moon about this.

835
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: Can you imagine how much more affordable films will become?

836
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: Why would you need to pay whomever you know, like

837
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 1: Julia Roberts or um Idris Elba. What would you need

838
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: to pay them millions and millions of dollars every time

839
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: you make a movie when you could just buy the

840
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: rights to their likeness and their voice and then use

841
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: deep fake technology. Holograms are there that they're pretty sophisticated,

842
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: but we're not on the point where they can replace

843
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,439
Speaker 1: human beings yet. Well, and at this point almost all

844
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: consumption occurs on our phones. True. Also, I gotta go

845
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: on this one pitch pitch one thing. Okay, so imagine

846
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: we combine deep fakes with AI kind of limited AI.

847
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 1: This leads us to a strange place, very very quickly.

848
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: I have a prediction. I predict that in the mid future,

849
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 1: you know, mid term future. So it's completely possible that

850
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 1: we could democratize screenwriting and filmmaking in a very strange way,

851
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: a way that would not require more than one human

852
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: being to be involved. Imagine if you had something that

853
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: was like Alexa or Sirie or Google Home or whatever,

854
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: and instead of just messing with audio, this would mess

855
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: with audio and visual. So you could just say to it.

856
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: You could say, hey, Google or Alexa, combine Police Academy

857
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: for and just name another film, back to the Future

858
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: three and Back to the Future three. Just combine those

859
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: together and make a film for me. And then this

860
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: algorithm would be able to write the script for that

861
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: that combines these things, take the references from the other

862
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: visual aspects and combine those so that we would have

863
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: something like, you know, back to the Police Academy for

864
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: or back to the Police Academy three, you know what

865
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: I mean, or Police Academy to the future. You know,

866
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: it's completely possible, And then that means the only human

867
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 1: being involved in that entire process once this technology exists

868
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: is the person who asked the question, and I think

869
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 1: we're on the way there. Wow, pretty pretty stunning stuff. Yeah,

870
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: it's funny too, because all you'd have to do is

871
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: combine some of the top grossing films over the past

872
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: fifty years basically, and then you could just have new

873
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: hits and change the proper nounds and scriptwriting is so

874
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: formulaic anyways for a lot of those films. But it

875
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: appears that at least four now, at least in the

876
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: cases we've outlined, there's no solid proof of celebrities being

877
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: actively murdered and replaced. Yet we do see the numerous

878
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: possibilities for replacement, if not, if not assassination. Uh. And

879
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: we do know that there are likely body doubles out

880
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: there in other other forms other uh, I mean there's

881
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: still bodies other forms or other applications would be a

882
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: better way to say it, you know. And I just

883
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: have to say something here. I believe that a lot

884
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: of these allegations that come up with body doubles, especially

885
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: with um celebrities who were younger women at the time

886
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: when they became celebrities, like your Taylor Swifts and your

887
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: Avril Levine's and all this. Um, A lot of this

888
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: feels like, I don't want to say, I don't know

889
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: if it's body shaming isn't the right term, but the

890
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: disbelief that a celebrity, especially a female celebrity, looks differently

891
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: than she did when she was, you know, seventeen eighteen,

892
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: whenever she became popular or younger. UM, I think has

893
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: to do with our own perceptions of that and how

894
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: we've been manipulated by media to view women as they age.

895
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: Is that I feel like there's something there because there's

896
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: there's an interview with Avril Levine where she was being asked,

897
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, have you heard the rumors that you were

898
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: replaced in everything that we were discussing, and the images

899
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: of her she does not look like she did at

900
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: least in too whatever that whenever she was interviewed or something.

901
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: She does not look anything like the Avril Levine that

902
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: we all grew up watching on MTV. And it's just

903
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: the nature of growing up and changing. And I don't know,

904
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: I feel like there's something in there with the way

905
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: we treat celebrities and follow them over all of this time, UM,

906
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: that maybe we just lose sight of who the person

907
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: is when you're looking at them. The fact that human

908
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: beings age and changes. Yeah, I don't see that. So

909
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: that's where we're leaving the conversation today. I know this

910
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: was a really long one. I think this is our

911
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: longest episode we've done in a while us. So we

912
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: want to hear from you what celebrity replacement theories, if any,

913
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: do you feel have some true grit? What do you

914
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: think would be the most likely, uh scenario wherein this

915
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: could occur? And if you have proof of it, let

916
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: us know if you are if you are Paul McCartney

917
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: and you're just tired of hearing this, Uh, that's that's fine.

918
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: Let us know. We we hope we were fair about

919
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: that case. Or just send us pictures of your favorite

920
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: doppel gangers. It's often said that everyone in the world

921
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: has someone who looks exactly like them. Have you ever

922
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: met your doppelganger? Was it cool? Were they cool? How

923
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: did it go? Tell us? You can find us on Facebook,

924
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, you can find us

925
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: on Twitter. You can also give us a call directly.

926
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: We are one h three three st d W y

927
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: t K. Leave a message. We will hear it, we

928
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: might get on the show. Yeah. And if none of

929
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: that quite bags your badgers, you want to contact us

930
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: in what is now the old fashioned way, there's good news.

931
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: You can reach us directly via email. We are conspiracy

932
00:59:49,840 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. M hmmm. Stuff they Don't

933
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 1: Want You to Know is a production of iHeart Radio's

934
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

935
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

936
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.