1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing avoiding financial scams and retirement 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: planning with Ben Carlson. Ben Carlson is the director of 4 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,639 Speaker 1: Institutional Asset Management at Report's Wealth Managements, and there he 5 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: helps to create detailed investment plans and managed portfolios for 6 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: institutions and individuals to help them to achieve their goals. 7 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: Ben is also the author of the new book Don't 8 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: Fall for It, A Short History of Financial Scams, which 9 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: will discuss and on top of that, he has his 10 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: own investing podcast called Animal Spirits, and he writes all 11 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: about investing over at his site, A Wealth of Common Sense. 12 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: Ben is just crazy prolific and we're excited to talk 13 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: about scams but also how we as individuals should approach 14 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: saving and investing for retirements. Have been thanks so much 15 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: for for coming on the podcast. Hey guys, thanks for 16 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: having me. Glad to have you been. I've been reading 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: your blog for quite a number of years now. Man, 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: you put on some great stuff. The first question that 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: we have though for for everybody who comes on the 20 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: show is is tied to something that Matt and I 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: care about, which we drink a beer every episode, and 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: today we're drinking a beer that was sent to us 23 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: by a listener, listener Andy, And so Matt and I 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: intentionally drink a beer because it's something that we love 25 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: that we prioritize now while saving investing well for the future. 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: So what's your splurge, Ben, what's your craft beer equivalent? 27 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: I'd like to live life what I call selectively cheap, so, uh, 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's the kind of thing where my wife 29 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: and I like to have a nice house, but we 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to fill it with really expensive furniture. Uh. 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: We like to drive cars that are, you know, high 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: quality and maybe on the newer end of things, but 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily really expensive. So we're we're not you know, 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: we're more in long lines of a nice Honda as 35 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: opposed to a nice Mercedes. Um, you know things like that. 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: We we like to splurge when we go on vacations, 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: and like last year we did a vacation when we 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: paid a little more for an adult's only section. But 39 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: we don't go on a ton of vacations because we 40 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: have little kids. So I think it's kind of trade 41 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: offs like that, where you're you're willing to pay for 42 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: something a little extra, uh, but only things that that 43 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: really matter to you. That's kind of the way that 44 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: I look to look at these things. Yeah, very cool. Yeah, 45 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: I like what you said there about having a nice house, 46 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: but you don't necessarily care to fill it with fancy furniture, 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, like you're not you're not looking for a 48 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: designer chair necessarily. You just want to have a nice, 49 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: nice place to live, right, And yeah, we we like 50 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: to go out to dinner, which obviously is not happening 51 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: much anymore. But that's more of a burger and a 52 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: beer type of place than going out to a really 53 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: fine dining establishment. So I think it's it's kind of 54 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: about finding those trade offs, and it's about finding those 55 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: burger and a beer deals as well. Tis you can 56 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: got those combos going on, you have eight dollar burger 57 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: and beer combo. Well, then you've written that comments sense 58 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: and self awareness that they are extremely underritted attributes in 59 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: the world of finance. That's part of why you called 60 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: your site a wealth of common sense. Uh So why 61 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: are do you feel that those two things are oftentimes missing? 62 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: You know, so frequently when it comes to personal finance, 63 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: especially the finance realm I've I've worked in an area 64 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: in my whole career. I think people assume that intelligence 65 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: and people who went to really good schools and can 66 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,399 Speaker 1: talk about really complex topics in a complex manner. They 67 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: assume those people know what they're talking about and that 68 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: they know what they're doing. And I've just found that 69 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: that most of the time that isn't really the case. 70 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: That the people who are able to um cut through 71 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: all the complexities and complicated mess that is the world 72 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: of finance and just explain it in a simple manner 73 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: that makes sense to to just normal people who aren't 74 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: even in the field. I've always found that that's far 75 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: more helpful than than really getting into the weeds and 76 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: getting into mathematical formulas. And so my whole thing when 77 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: I started my site was just how do I talk 78 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: to normal people about this stuff, because that's who was 79 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: questioning me about this off outside of my my day job. 80 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: It was, you know, my in laws and friends and family, 81 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: and they would say, you know, I just don't understand this. 82 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: Explain it to me like I'm a six year old. 83 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: And that's what I tried to do when I when 84 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: I started the blog, and so I think if you 85 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: can get into that mindset of of really dumbing things 86 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: down and making them easy and easy to digest and 87 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: using analogies and stories, I think it's easier for people 88 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: to learn that way. And and I also have learned 89 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: kind of through the back door. I didn't really mean 90 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: to do this, but a lot of the other people 91 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: in the investment world that have been reading my stuff 92 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: have realized like, oh, this this actually it's it's it's smart. 93 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: It's smarter to actually explain the stuff in a simple way, 94 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: and they use it with their clients and stuff. So 95 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: I think anytime you can make things easier for people 96 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: to digest it, it's helpful. Yeah, cut out some of 97 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: that jargon that just instantly turns people off and makes 98 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: them makes them feel dumb and kind of uh, it 99 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: oftentimes makes them disinterested in the subject altogether. I feel 100 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: like also to ben use being a financial advisor, right, 101 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean that you're super into personal fine, 102 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: you're more into investing, but you in particular, you definitely 103 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: seem to be into personal finance as well. So kind 104 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: of what sparked your interest in investing and money and 105 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: just kind of overall personal finance that maybe some other 106 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: people in your space don't necessarily have. For some reason, 107 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: I was always interested in saving, and maybe it's just 108 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: passed down from my parents were always relatively frugal in 109 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: my dad would always talk about the evils of credit 110 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: card debt and these things, and I just kind of 111 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: the bug sort of hit me. And when I got 112 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: out of college, I realized, well, I have this textbook 113 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: finance degree, and I know all these these different theories 114 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: about finance, but I don't really know how to manage 115 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: my own personal wealth. So what's the point of investing 116 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,679 Speaker 1: if you don't have any money saved and you can't 117 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: really manage your own finances. And so it was more 118 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: to me about a journey of learning what I didn't 119 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: know and and reading about this stuff. And so obviously 120 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people aren't going to spend 121 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: their weekends and nights reading about personal finance, but I 122 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: think even just picking up a book or two on 123 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: this stuff where people can be so helpful because it 124 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: touches so many different areas of your life and and 125 00:05:58,480 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: the way I see it, as you know, you could 126 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: be the best investor in the world, and you could 127 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: we have warm buffet stock picking skills, but if you 128 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: can't save money, it doesn't matter how good of an 129 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: investor you are. You know, it's all about getting that 130 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: stuff done first. And so I think a lot of 131 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: people don't realize, you know, the saving and personal finance 132 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: and getting your budget and all that stuff in order, 133 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: it's just so much more boring than picking stocks and 134 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: figuring out what the next best investment strategy is. But 135 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: you have to do with all that stuff first before 136 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: you even think about starting investing. I feel like personal 137 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: finances are that's the tires. That's where the tires meet 138 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: the road. Right. You can have the nicest car, you 139 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: can have the most powerful engine, the most sophisticated navigation system, right, 140 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: but if you don't have good tires on, there as 141 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: sins that thing. Since you match the gas, you know, 142 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: you're just gonna You're just gonna spend out and you're 143 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: not gonna get anywhere. And obviously that's more of our 144 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: approach as well, right, trying to take a more practical 145 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: approach to money, which is why we like talking about 146 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: personal finances. But it's I guess it's encouraging though to 147 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: hear that coming from someone like you who specializes more 148 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: in investing and institutional wealth and just all these larger 149 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: things that you haven't lost sight, you know, of of 150 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: how this impacts the common folks, us individuals well. And 151 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: the crazy thing is, it's it's amazing how many people 152 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: that I've met over the years in this field who 153 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: make a ton of money working in the world of finance, 154 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: but their personal finances are a mess. And so they're 155 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: managing money for other people, they don't know how to 156 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: manage their own money and spending, and and you know, 157 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: there's a there's obviously a big difference between you know, 158 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: having a high income and becoming wealthy. And a lot 159 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: of times wealth is what you don't see that other 160 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: people have. You know. It's it's not all the toys 161 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: and big houses and cars and all that stuff. It's 162 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: it's the stuff you don't see that that's really behind 163 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: the scenes. Yeah, if you were to go to like 164 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: school kids and hold up two pictures, one of like 165 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: a family in this large house with a nice car, 166 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: and and one with a family with a small house 167 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: and a tiny car or whatever, like a Honda Civic, 168 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: they'd be like, oh, that the person the family with 169 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: the giant house and the fancy car, they're they're rich, 170 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: but often it's the opposite. That's the case. Ben's not wealthy. 171 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: He just drives a Honda exactly exactly. But then we 172 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: know that's not true. Um, but let's talk about COVID 173 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: real quick. You mentioned obviously we're not going out to 174 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: eat as much, but but COVID has brought on a 175 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: lot of government and federal reserve involvement in the markets 176 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: that we've never ever seen before. Do you think that 177 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: those lending programs and the trillions of dollars and stimulus 178 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: have fundamentally changed the way that we think about risk 179 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: when we're investing in the market. It's possible, it's it's 180 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: it's a wild time, and it's it's still so fresh 181 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: and young in this in this crisis that it's hard 182 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: to believe. But we're only I don't know, four or 183 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: five months into it. But you know, we had the 184 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: fastest most sharp drop off in stock market history, where 185 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: the stocks fell something like twenty three trading days. But 186 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: then we also had, you know, ten trillion dollars in 187 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: monetary and fiscal stimulus hit the market at the same time, 188 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: and so people who are trying to wrap their heads around, 189 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, how can we have a depression going on 190 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: in this country where you have double digit unemployment and 191 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: millions of people out of work and parts of the 192 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: economy basically in the freezer. But then you also have 193 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: the stock market charging back too close to new all 194 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: time highs, and and part of it is that we've 195 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: just had these trillions of dollars hit and people don't 196 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: know what that means in terms of unintended consequences. I 197 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: do think once the cat gets out of the bag 198 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: and we have another recession down the road, and people 199 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: say like, okay, this this actually helps people. It It 200 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: got people on the lower end of the the income scale 201 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: through this, maybe not unscathed, but but you know, it 202 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 1: helped them a lot bridge that gap. I think if 203 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: if that can happen, then I think it's going to 204 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: be hard for people to not push push their their 205 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: politicians in the future to do this again. And so 206 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: I think it's it's gonna be hard to go back. 207 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: And we obviously had a lot of stimulus in two 208 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: thousand and eight. This is basically doubled down on it, 209 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: and so I think this could change the nature of 210 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: risk in the future, and I don't know what that means, 211 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: but I think there's gonna be a lot of unintended consequences. Well, 212 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: speaking of federal programs, there are a lot of different 213 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: opinions about Social Security. So do you think it will 214 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: actually still be there for for us, for our generation? 215 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: You know, for millennials, um, you know, should we count 216 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: on it for you know? As part of our tournament, 217 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: I wrote about this a couple of months ago, and 218 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: the response I got was overwhelmingly that mollennials are not 219 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: taking this into account. And my stance on it is 220 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: I think a politician would be crazy to ever completely 221 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: get rid of this program. Now, there are certainly ways 222 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: where they could, They could pull it back a little 223 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: bit and make you take it when you're a little older, 224 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: or maybe the bump ups are are not as um 225 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: high as they are for for people these days. But 226 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: it's estimated that in two thousand thirty four that we're 227 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: going to run out and there's not gonna be enough 228 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: money in that pool of people who are paying in 229 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: Social Security taxes to fund it. But but what that 230 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: means is not that it's effectively going to zero it 231 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 1: means that there will be roughly eight of the money 232 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: coming in that will be paying out the people who 233 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: are taking it out as benefits. So to fill that gap, 234 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: you're either gonna have to increase taxes or alternatively, the 235 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: government would have to cut back Social Security maybe for 236 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: younger people, or they could just borrow more money and 237 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 1: take the money from elsewhere. So it's actually one of 238 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: the better programs that can out of the Great Depression 239 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: in terms of there really wasn't a backstop for people 240 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: retiring back in the day. You really just had to 241 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,119 Speaker 1: fend for yourself. So I know a lot of millennials 242 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: think this program is on borrow time, it's not going 243 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: to be there. I would take the other side of 244 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: that and think that it's it's going to be there, 245 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: but um, you're just gonna have it. It's possible it 246 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: could be less than than people think now, But I 247 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: don't think it's completely going away. I think a politician 248 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: will be crazy to ever touch that program. Yeah, I 249 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: think you're right. If you're the politician screaming into the 250 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: microphone that that you want to do away with Social Security, 251 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: the chances of you getting elected yeah, yeah, exactly. But Ben, 252 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: it isn't part of that problem that we're just living 253 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: so much longer now. And you know, when social Security 254 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: was was first instituted, it really was kind of one 255 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: of those things for your final years if you live 256 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: that long. And now so many more of us are 257 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: living into in mid to late eighties, and that is 258 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: one of the biggest problems leading to Social Security, you know, 259 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: being becoming insolvent in the near future. It would seem 260 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: like moving back the retirement age, the eligibility age for 261 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: Social Security would would make a whole lot of sense 262 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: to right, certainly, and especially if they did it for 263 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: you know, everyone under the age of forty or something 264 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: like that, as the way to grandfather other people in. 265 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: And I think it also means that just younger people 266 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: are probably gonna have to get used to working longer 267 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: because we're living longer. Obviously, you know, retirement itself is 268 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: a relatively new concept for for a lot of people 269 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: that didn't really there really wasn't anything it's retirement. It 270 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: was kind of you worked until you died, back when 271 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: people just owned farms, and and so I think it's 272 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: just something that we're really still wrapping your heads around 273 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: and getting used to. But a lot of these municipalities 274 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: that are offering retirement at age fifty five or sixty, Yeah, 275 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: obviously they're going to be in a world of hurt 276 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: because they're making promises to people on a different life 277 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: expectancy range. So yeah, and I think, you know, millennials 278 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: and gen z, they're probably gonna just get used to 279 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: the fact of I'm not going to completely leave the 280 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: working world at age sixty five or whatever it is 281 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: that people do these days. It's going to be more 282 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: of a slow transition where you're going to have the 283 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: ability to do some other kind of work in slowly 284 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: transition out of that instead of just cutting it all 285 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: off and leaving in one day. Sure, and hopefully folks 286 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: have maybe other work lined up, just other sources of income. 287 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we talk often about diversifying your sources of 288 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: income to where you can make those changes right, where 289 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: you can leave the work that maybe you don't necessarily 290 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: enjoy or you're getting too old for, exactly making that 291 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: transition a little smoother versus, like you said, like the 292 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: traditional hard cut off when it does come time to retire. So, Ben, 293 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: we want to talk some about your book specifically, we're 294 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: going to dive into two scams and we're gonna get 295 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: to that right after this break. All right, we're back 296 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: from the break. We're talking with Ben Carlson, and now 297 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: let's talk about avoiding financial scams. And Ben, you just 298 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: recently wrote a book called Don't Fall for It and 299 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: it was a short history, a short documenting of financial scams. 300 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: It was fascinating, um, And we were just discussing COVID though, 301 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: So before we get into some of the stories you 302 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: mentioned in your book, I wanted to to know from you, 303 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: uh as you've been kind of following what's going on 304 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: with COVID nineteen and the increasing rate of scams that 305 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: we've seen, Like what sort of scams have you seen 306 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: popping up and do you feel like it's a particularly 307 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: scary time out there for for normal citizens. Well, that's 308 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that I came across in my 309 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: research that anything health related is probably going to be 310 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: almost easier than than financially related scams, because when you're 311 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: dealing with someone's health, that's the livelihood and so making 312 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: promises in that realm, especially when it comes from someone 313 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: who seems like they are credential and know what they're 314 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: talking about, and especially when when you're talking about the 315 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: health field. In the medical field, there just aren't that 316 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: many experts out there. So when you feel like you 317 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: have found someone who knows what they're talking about and 318 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: they say they have this this miracle cure or or 319 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: or this one simple thing you can do or these 320 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: five steps, people are going to want to latch that 321 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: story because it's going to keep them and potentially their 322 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: family healthy. So there's just this long history. It goes 323 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: back to snake oil salesman who literally in the Chicago 324 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: World's Fair back in the eighteen hundreds would boil snakes 325 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: and take their oil and tell people that it had 326 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: these healing powers. And people just wanted to believe it 327 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: back then because there really wasn't much else that they 328 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: could latch onto. And when you're dealing in such an 329 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: uncertain time and and people are just grasping for answers, 330 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: I think there's a tendency of people to just do 331 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: what the quote unquote experts tell them. And a lot 332 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: of times those experts are people that are that no 333 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: human nature much better than they do, and they're they're 334 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: really trying to take advantage. So it's really hard for 335 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: people to determine the difference between people that are experts 336 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: they should listen to and these people who are pretending 337 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: to be experts who really just have something to sell 338 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: them and are just trying to take advantage of people. Yeah, 339 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of self appointed experts out there in 340 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: a lot of reallems really well, not even just that too. 341 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like you see, when it comes 342 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: to news like it, I mean, it's often times difficult 343 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: to know what news tours to trust because you're you're 344 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: seeing different things. And and like you said, been when 345 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: it comes to our health, I think we are we're 346 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: a little more concerned about our our health and how 347 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: that impacts our ability to work or support our families 348 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: or you know, continue living even But but yeah, certainly 349 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: anything health related, there's there's bound to be scams associated 350 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: with us. I can only imagine we're going to see 351 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: that increase as some different treatments make their way onto 352 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: the market and are going to be more widely available 353 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: that that. That's like these different schemes are just waiting 354 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: for their opportunity. Just they're just waiting for that to 355 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: release in order for them to kind of pounce on 356 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: that opportunity, right, And and unfortunately, I think we're also 357 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: going to see the times where you're gonna have people 358 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: who are are just not really trusting of things that 359 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: are effective treatments and vaccines. So I think, I mean, 360 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: hopefully one day when we get a vaccine, there's probably 361 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: gonna be a decent percentage of the population who is 362 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: going to be too scared to take it because they 363 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: think it's it's not going to work or it's going 364 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: to hurt them and say it's brand new. Yeah. So unfortunately, 365 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna get some of this from both sides, 366 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: where even the stuff that is probably going to be helpful, 367 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: they're going to be people who are not trusting of 368 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: it because they don't know where to get their information 369 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: and because they feel that experts other experts have failed 370 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: them in the past. And so yeah, these these uncertain 371 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: times are just going to be unfortunately, really easy to 372 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: take advantage of people and because they're you're talking about 373 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: some of their greatest fears here. Sure, sure, yeah, So 374 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: but let's talk about your book. There are so many 375 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: interesting stories and in inducts in your in your book, 376 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: is there a particular one that stood out to you 377 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: the most. You know, as you're researching and writing the book, 378 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: the first chapter I wrote was probably the favorite story 379 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: I came across. And this guy named John Brinkley, who 380 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: who did take advantage of people because he was a doctor. 381 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: And this was in the late eighteen hunters early nineteen 382 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: hundreds when it was much easier to become a doctor. 383 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: That really wasn't weren't as many regulations and rules in 384 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: place that this guy paid a hundred dollars for a diploma. 385 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: He never actually finished medical school. He just kind of 386 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: told people he did. And he actually used the radio 387 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: as his platform to get out there for people. So 388 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: it was he was kind of like one of the 389 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: first people who try had to become an influencer. And 390 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: his form of social media was using the radio. And yeah, 391 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: because and this was still a relatively new thing at 392 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: the time. This this was finally a way for people. 393 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: It was a way to reach a mash audience for 394 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: the first time. And I mean, this guy was like 395 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: the Instagram Instagram influencer of his day. And he would 396 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: get on the air and he would read people's problems 397 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: that they had health wise, and he would prescribe a 398 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: medicine on the spot without ever seeing these people. He 399 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: would say, hey, take take three doses of my medicine 400 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: potion four nine two or whatever, and go to his 401 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: pharmacy and buy it. And he wasn't even checking these 402 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: patients out. And in his his his sort of cutta 403 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: was he was on a small farm town in Kansas, 404 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,239 Speaker 1: and this is in the early nineteen twenties, and had 405 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: a farmer come up to him and and the doctor. 406 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: Because it was such a small town. His his doctor's 407 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: office literally butted up to a farm and the this 408 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: guy came to him. He's a farmer. He said, you know, 409 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm kind of a flat tire doc. I can't get 410 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: my wife pregnant. I don't know what's wrong with me. 411 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: And he's that it's too bad I don't have Billy 412 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: goat nuts. Because he was looking out in the field 413 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: and saw some goats. And this light went off in 414 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: Brinkley's head. And when I read this, I couldn't believe 415 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 1: that the story so wild. I guess they it's possible. 416 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: They're making a movie with Matt Damon about this, if 417 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: if we ever get back to making movies again. But 418 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: and so it went off in his head. He said, Okay, 419 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to perform these surgeries. And Brinkley literally would 420 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: take the testicles out of goats and implant them into humans. 421 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: I was shocked. So he actually did this, and lo 422 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: and behold the first guy. He did it too. For 423 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: whatever reason, A couple of months later, his wife got pregnant, 424 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: and so people thought that it actually worked, when it 425 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: was probably just a case of, you know, enough time 426 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: had passed and as his wife had just finally got pregnant, 427 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 1: obviously doing a a goat testicle implant wasn't was not 428 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: helping this guy get his wife pregnant. But Brinkley sold 429 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: such a good story, and again, these people were just 430 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: latching on for narratives that they came to him. And 431 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: unfortunately a lot of these people, because that he didn't 432 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: know what he was doing and he wasn't really a doctor, 433 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people ended up getting hurt or die 434 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 1: from his surgeries. He was performing, but he was such 435 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: a good salesperson that people just wanted to believe him. 436 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: And and the craziest part about it is he died 437 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen forties, and by then the regulars 438 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: had taken him down and taking them out. They wouldn't 439 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: let him be a doctor anymore because they finally caught 440 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: up with him, and and he he died kind of broken, penniless, 441 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: and at his funeral there was a guy in the 442 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: crowd who supposedly said, I know that this guy was 443 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: bilking me, but I kind of liked him anyway. So 444 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: it just gets down to this point where if you 445 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: have this this ability to sell yourself and sell stories 446 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: and get people to like you, you you can almost get 447 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: him to do anything. And unfortunately, a lot of people 448 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: who do that don't use that power for good. They 449 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: use it for bad. I mean, that's why so many, uh, 450 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: the biggest scams out there happened with people in a 451 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: religious congregation or someone that you you know, or a 452 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: family member. It's it's affinity fraud. Really, it's it's somebody 453 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: that that that's close to you, which yeah, it's sad, 454 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: but but true. So, so, what are maybe one of 455 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: the biggest similarities in the frauds and scams that you 456 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: covered in the book. Was there anything that you saw 457 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: as kind of this this trajectory or this line running 458 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: through all the scams. It seemed like a just a 459 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: common theme. I mean, the biggest common theme is just 460 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: that human nature is as old as time and it's 461 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that doesn't change. So a lot 462 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: of the scams would take place around a big technological change. 463 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: So in that in the nineties and thirties, you had 464 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: all these new technologies coming into the home, and that 465 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: was a big change, and you had the Great Depression. 466 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: But leading up to that, you had all these new 467 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: technologies coming into place and the automobile, and people were 468 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: just it's an exciting time. So any time that there's 469 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: this technological change, people get so excited about what the 470 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: future could bring that they're almost willing to trust anything 471 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: anyone says to them about that. Obviously, sort of high 472 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: pressure sales tactics can always hurt people because we want 473 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: to listen to a story. People don't really listen to statistics, 474 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, they don't want to see the data. They 475 00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: want to hear a good story. So I think a 476 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: good story will always trump good data. And and anytime 477 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: it's really overly complicated, that's why maybe I'm I'm a 478 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: horrible salesman because I said, I don't want to have 479 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: complicated stuff. I want to dump it down. But for 480 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people, they assume complicated equals intelligence. So 481 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 1: anytime something is overly complicated and the person says, you know, 482 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: trust me, I'm an expert. I got this, don't worry 483 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: about it. I think a lot of people take that 484 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: as okay, the good this person can handle it. For me, 485 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: I can just wash my hands of it. And and 486 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: that's when a lot of problems happen, when you just 487 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: let the person go hog wild and take over for you. Right. Well, 488 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of Bernie made Off. You you you of course 489 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: mentioned him in your book. Uh, he's probably the most 490 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: recent high profile scame artist. But then you were kind 491 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: of Charles Ponzi as well, and so you know for 492 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: whom the Ponzi scheme is named. Most people don't really 493 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: know that story or his story. Can you fill us in? Yeah, 494 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: it's it's wild that I think if he hadn't come around, 495 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: maybe they called the made Off scam at this point. 496 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: But Ponzi was just a lifelong criminal, and he'd spent 497 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: time in jail, and and he made these promise that 498 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: promises from this this sort of stamp arbitryers that he 499 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: could make money buying and selling stamps overseas because of 500 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: the currency differences, and honestly, the pitch didn't really matter. 501 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: All he said was I'm going to double your money 502 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: in a short amount of time. He was he was 503 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: probably seeing these huge returns in forty five days or 504 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: ninety days. And at the time, interest rates were relatively low, 505 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: so people were just beating down the door, and they 506 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: were bringing so much money to his place that it 507 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: was just filling up these barrels full of money because 508 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: he was making these promises and all he was doing, 509 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: of course, was paying out the earlier investors with money 510 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: that would come in later. And even when some of 511 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: the papers, the local Boston papers, started to try to 512 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: figure out how he was promising these returns and saying 513 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: that the math just didn't make sense, people didn't want 514 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: to believe it because he said, no, they don't know 515 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: they're talking about they're they're mad they can't get in 516 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: on this. And and the funny thing was Ponzi was 517 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: taking this money out of his own scam and investing 518 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: in safe government bonds that were paying a low interest 519 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: rate that people didn't want to put their money in. 520 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: And people never thought to realize, like why he's making 521 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: such good returns, why wouldn't he put his own money 522 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: in this? Because he was making so much money off 523 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: of the people, obviously, and and I mean that's effectively 524 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: what Bernie Madoff did is is he would he brought 525 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: money in. He he didn't really have an investment approach. 526 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: He just promised people these are the returns. And the 527 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: the interesting difference there is that made Off never really promised. 528 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: He never said I'm gonna double your money in ninety days, 529 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: which obviously, if someone ever tells you that they're they're 530 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: probably delusional, relier both. But but made Off was more 531 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: promising these really steady returns that would never go down. 532 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: So he's promising these ten eleven twelve p returns, but 533 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: you would never see a loss. I think he went 534 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: like twenty two years and he showed one quarterly loss 535 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: over twenty two years or something ridiculous, which is impossible 536 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: when you're earning that level of return. So there's different 537 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: ways that you can touch into the financial emotions of people. 538 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: One of them, of course, is yeah, just promising these 539 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: lottery ticket type gains, and that's there's always a certain 540 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: element of greed that you're gonna get but made off 541 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: actually touched on the fear for people because he was saying, 542 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to take care of your money, 543 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be he doesn't doesn't have to be 544 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: as volatile as the stock market. It's going to be 545 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: relatively smooth and an easy ride. And he really lulled 546 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: people to sleep in terms of, you know, he's promising 547 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: these these returns that were just impossible to have make 548 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: so smooth, but he smoothed out because he was obviously 549 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: making up the returns. That's one thing he learned from 550 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: Ponzi is actually, don't make it too outlanted. Yeah, exactly. 551 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: Let's let's be reasonable here. Yeah. Well, Ben, you talked 552 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: about kind of the complexity model being something that that 553 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: is used by scam artists. But you also talked about 554 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: in chapter twelve. It was titled Fooled by Intelligence. You 555 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: talked about en Ron, you talked about Toronto's and how 556 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: one of the most brilliant people ever to live, Sir 557 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton, was taken by an investment that cost him 558 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: big money. So smart people seem just as susceptible to 559 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: foolish money decisions as normal people. So so how in 560 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: what way can too much intelligence potentially be a danger 561 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: when it comes to investing? Yeah, that that I mean. 562 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: Newton is arguably probably one of the smartest people who's 563 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: ever lived, and he got caught up in what I think, 564 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: from my research is probably the biggest bubble of all time, 565 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: is that the south Sea bubble. And surprisingly he put 566 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 1: an investment in this south Sea company, which effectively was 567 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: when these ships were going from England to America and 568 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: searching for gold. That he put an investment in and 569 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: made a bunch of money and then sold out. And 570 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: he actually did pretty good because he sold out before 571 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: the insanity hit. But then when he found that people 572 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: were making more money because this bubble kept blowing even bigger, 573 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: he put his money back in and then effectively lost 574 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: it all and and just made his famous quote where 575 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: he said, you know, I can't you know, I can 576 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: calculate the distance between the stars, but not the emotions 577 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: of men or something like that. But the reason that 578 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: I think intelligent people get taken a lot is because 579 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: they get over confident, and especially in areas like you know, 580 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: I see this a lot where doctors and dentists and 581 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: people who are very successful in one area of business 582 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: or their career. They think it automatically translates into becoming 583 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: successful in other areas of their career, like like managing 584 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: money and being in the stock market. And a lot 585 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: of times that's why those are the people who get 586 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: taken And there's a few examples of this in the book. 587 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: But there was one study that looked into financial fraud 588 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: and they tested two different groups, one of them who 589 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: had been taken for a financial fraud and the other 590 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: one who hadn't, and they gave them this very detailed 591 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: questionnaire to check their invest in acumen, and they actually 592 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: found that the people who didn't get taken advantage of 593 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: and had never become part of a fraud, they actually 594 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: didn't get very many questions right. Actually, the people who 595 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: got caught in the fraud got the majority of the 596 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: questions right. And so it was these more sophisticated people 597 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: who got taken advantage of. And again one of the 598 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: reasons is because they're overconfident. A lot of times you're 599 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: dealing with very wealthy people. If they see other wealthy 600 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: people getting money, it's not an absolute thing for them. 601 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: They don't care that they've already made it pretty big, 602 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: and they make good money and they can save. When 603 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: they see other wealthy people potentially getting you know, rich 604 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: overnight or or finding an easy, easy way to make money, 605 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: they want to get into that too, because they feel like, 606 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, even though for everyone else the the these 607 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: secret path to riches don't exist, for for me, it 608 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: probably should and it does, so why why shouldn't I 609 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: get to take advantage of this like everyone else? And 610 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: a lot of times that's how they talk themselves into 611 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: getting taken advantage of a fraud because they just feel 612 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 1: like they're entitled to it. Yeah, that overconfidence. Well, Ben, like, 613 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: what what's your biggest takeaway for just everyday people on 614 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: how to avoid scams, whether it comes to you know, 615 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: the money that we're spending, the money that we're investing. Uh, yeah, 616 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: Like what's your biggest takeaway there? I think just any 617 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: time it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. 618 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: So Unfortunately a lot of the stuff with saving and investing, 619 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a long slog. You have to be 620 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: patient anytime someone promises that they're going to make you 621 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: rich overnight or they're gonna give you something that sounds unrealistic. 622 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is just really a 623 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: slow game. And anytime someone tries to speed this process up, 624 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: I think it's it's probably you're in for a world 625 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: of hurt because most of the time it's just it's 626 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: it's just not that bit easy. Unfortunately, good saving and 627 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: good and investing in good personal finances is relatively boring. 628 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: And any anytime someone tries to make it too exciting, 629 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: that they're probably taking advantage of you. Yeah, it says 630 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: our friend j D would say, you get rich slowly, right, 631 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: It takes time typically, right, So all right, well, we 632 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: want to talk more about investing in particular with you Ben, 633 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: including the most recent market crash and bounce back, and 634 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: we'll get to some of those questions right after this break. 635 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: All right, Joel, we're back from the break and we're 636 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: talking with Benn Carlson and Ben. This last section here 637 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: we want to specifically talk about investing, you know, individuals 638 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: investing in the market and you know, as investors, what 639 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: are the main lessons that we should take away from 640 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: the most recent market crash, especially for for new and 641 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: younger investors who haven't ever experienced you know, volatility like that. Right. Unfortunately, 642 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: you know most of the time, it's it's not really 643 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: going to be as as bad as this was where 644 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: you have this this huge crash and in a short 645 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: period of time. But I mean young people, especially if 646 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: you've never really experienced this, it's something you're gonna have 647 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: to get used to if you're going to make money. 648 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: The one thing that I always tell people is one 649 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: of the only things you can count on is if 650 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: you want to earn higher returns over time, you know, 651 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: higher than the average rate of inflation, you're gonna have 652 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: to accept higher levels of risk. And that means occasionally 653 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna have some face ripping losses that are really 654 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: going to hurt, unfortunately, and I think young people just 655 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: have to get used to them, because you're probably gonna 656 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: if you if you're twenty thirty, even forty years old, 657 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna experience half a dozen to a dozen 658 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: bear markets over the course of your investing lifecycle, and 659 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: if you're in it for the long haul, you just 660 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: have to get used to this. So unfortunately, volatility is 661 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: just some part of investing in the stock market, and 662 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: so there's just this trade off between risk and return, 663 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: and it's really becomes tempting when markets move as fast 664 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: as they have to try to do something and take 665 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: the wheel, because you know, the more you think, the 666 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: more that you do, the easier it becomes in that 667 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: you can control your own destiny. And unfortunately, the market 668 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: doesn't really care how hard you work. There are there 669 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: are no points for difficulty in the stock market. So 670 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: I just think that becoming more patient and unfortunately the 671 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: long term is great. But life is not always lived 672 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: in a long term. It's it's lived in the short term. 673 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: But it's really important to have a handle on your 674 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: your time horizon and your risk profile whenever you're putting 675 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: on into work so you don't make a mistake by 676 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: selling at the wrong time or buying at the wrong 677 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: time or whatever it is. Yeah, you actually you wrote 678 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: that folks who have only recently begun investing they're actually 679 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: at an advantage during a recession. So can you kind 680 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: of explain what you mean by that. I mean this 681 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: is especially true for people who keep their job. Obviously, 682 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: if there's a lot of people who are in financial 683 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: pain right now and and just don't have the ability 684 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: to save unfortunately. But but but if you're one of 685 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: the lucky people who has the ability to continue to 686 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: save and invest and keep your job. Yeah, you, as 687 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: a young person, you should get on your hands and 688 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: knees and pray for a bear market because it means 689 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: you're buying stocks at lower prices with higher dividend yields 690 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: and lower valuations, so lower stock prices, especially if you're 691 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: a person who is a net saver, So if you're 692 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: saving into your four one K every week or two 693 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: weeks or four weeks or whatever it is. How whenever, 694 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: however often you get paid your saving your ira A 695 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: or brokerage account. When the stock market falls and you're 696 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: saving on a regular basis, that's a good thing because 697 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: you get a chance to put money in. So this 698 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: bear market actually didn't give you a big window to 699 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: keep saving when stocks were down, so they only had, 700 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of week period where stocks were 701 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: down a lot double digits where you could actually put 702 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: money in because they bounced back so quickly. So actually, 703 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: as painful as it can be for some people, an 704 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: extended bear market is probably actually a greater opportunity for 705 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: young people. So seeing those those fluctuations, especially if we're 706 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: talking about money, you're not gonna need for retirement, which 707 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: could be ten, thirty, forty years in the future. Then 708 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: you really shouldn't worry too much about what the stock 709 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: market prices are today. You should worry about what they're 710 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: going to be in the future. So any bear market 711 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: where stocks fault, it's a very counterintuitive, but the stock market, unfortunately, 712 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: is one of those few places where when prices go 713 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: on sale, people run the other direction. Yeah, so for 714 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: folks who are in the wealth building phase of their lives, 715 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, we're big fans of target date funds and 716 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: total stock market index funds. You know, what's interesting about 717 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: the spire is that there are only is it five 718 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: companies that make up roughly of the overall value of 719 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: the SMP. Uh does that worry you at all? Right, 720 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: So it's it's Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google Google 721 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: percent and they've obviously grown in in a lot of 722 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: their strong performances has helped the stock partner not only 723 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: this year, but over the last you know, five, seven, 724 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: ten years as well. And it seems scary to people, 725 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: especially since it's all firms that are in a similar industry, 726 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, consumers and technology in these things. But the 727 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: stock market, if you look back historically has has always 728 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: kind of been this way. If we go back to 729 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: all the way to the nine twenties, there's always been 730 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: you know, because of the way that the stock market 731 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: is is set up. The biggest companies give you the 732 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: biggest bank for your buck in terms of of the returns. 733 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: So it may seem scary because you think, well, if 734 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: these like five companies fall, then the whole stock market 735 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: is just like a house of cards that's going to 736 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,959 Speaker 1: fall over. But this is really how the stock market 737 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: has always worked. And there's constant turning of these stocks too, 738 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: because there if if one of these companies falters, I'm 739 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: you can guarantee there's probably gonna another one that that 740 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: will be in its place as well. So the stock 741 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: market has always been very top heavy. There's a firm, 742 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, a T and T was in the top 743 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: ten stocks from the nineteen thirties all the way through 744 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. Company like GEU was there for a while, 745 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: and you think about that g was one of the 746 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: biggest companies in the in the world in the year 747 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 1: two thousand and has slowly just faded away and fallen 748 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: fifty six since then. And even though it is one 749 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: of the biggest companies the world. The stock market hasn't 750 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: really missed a beat and has kept up in these 751 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: other companies have taken its place, so that that's just 752 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: kind of the natural way the stock market works over time. Yeah, 753 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: in terms of time commitment and personal finance been you 754 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 1: wrote that we spend a hundred times more time watching 755 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: TV than paying attention to our personal finances. Actually kind 756 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: of shocked me and said me when I when I 757 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: read that, especially as someone who's a personal finance myself. 758 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: But you actually then advocated for spending roughly just two 759 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: minutes a day on personal money matters. So like, what's 760 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: your take on that. Why is just two minutes a 761 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: day enough to to kind of think about money? Yeah, 762 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: that was that was a study looked at and they 763 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: were trying to say, you know, people should be spending 764 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: way more time of their day spending on their finances 765 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: a worrying about it. And my whole point is is 766 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: just you put up the heavy lifting up front and 767 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: get these good systems in place where you have as 768 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 1: much as you can be automated in terms of where 769 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: your money goes when you get paid and going to 770 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: specific savings accounts for your different life goals that you 771 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: just don't have to worry about it because we have 772 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: this this limited willpower, and it would be nice to 773 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: we we think that like the harder we work and 774 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: the more time and energy we put into something, the 775 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: better results will be. But especially your finances, that's just 776 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: not always the case because if if you're trying to 777 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: will your way into getting well, theory over time and 778 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: saving it, it's just really hard to do. So I 779 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: think I would just rather not worry about it and 780 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: get a system in place where you know you're automatically 781 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: saving a certain amount every week or month or quarter 782 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: or a year or whatever it is, and move on 783 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: with your life and worry about something else, because your 784 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: personal finances shouldn't be something that you're stressed about every day. 785 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: And and if I think if you are stressed about 786 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: it too much, that means something is probably wrong when 787 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: your financial life right. I feel like this is an 788 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: example of when you spend too much time on something, 789 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: it's just that it's too much time, right. And you know, 790 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: when it comes to personal finance, if you're spending more 791 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: than maybe you know, fifteen minutes a week, maybe that 792 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: means you're speculating a little bit and you're you know, 793 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: you're looking at trying to gain the market a little 794 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: bit or take advantage of depths a little too much. 795 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: And that's not that's not the path of that we 796 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: recommend for folks. Yeah, and and unfortunately that's that's how 797 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: you make mistakes too, is because you're you're trying too 798 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: hard and you're you're again trying to take the wheel, 799 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: where most of the time if you just automate good 800 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 1: mistakes ahead of time and you realize what your lesser 801 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: self is and you try to take that out of 802 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: the equation. Because I know a lot of people would 803 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: like to think, you know, I'll just spend a certain 804 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: amount of money and at the end of the month, 805 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: whatever is left overall save. But unfortunately, most of the 806 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: time what happens is you'll spend whatever is there. So 807 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm more of an advocate of save first and spend 808 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: was ever whatever is left over. There was always a 809 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: good Jerry Seinfeld bit he did back in his stand 810 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: up days where he said, it's it's really funny how 811 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: all of the day's news fits exactly on the pages 812 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: of the newspaper every day and That's the way I 813 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: think about spending money too, is that if it's there, 814 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: you're going to spend it, so you might as well 815 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: save first. And I treat my savings like it's a 816 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: bill payment, like I'm I'm not going to touch that. 817 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: I know, that's something just like my mortgage that I'm 818 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: gonna be paying every month, And savings is part of 819 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: my my bills basically, and whatever is left over after that, 820 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: I can spend it on whatever I want, but I 821 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: first have to take care of those those savings, because 822 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: you know, to me, that is it's it's it's it's 823 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: like a bill every month. Nice. Well, you know, Ben, 824 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: it's clear by reading your work that you value simplicity, 825 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: you know much of the count and that you Andrew 826 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: Piers published reflects that you know low cost investments, that 827 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: they're they're crucial as you you know, are looking to 828 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: domestify investing for everyday folks. And so for for most 829 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: folks it is simple and it should only take maybe 830 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: two minutes a day. But for you know, for other 831 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: folks out there, what are the most important reasons to 832 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: consider getting help from a financial pro What circumstances should 833 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: those individuals look out for I think a lot of 834 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: people that comes down to that there's a few things. 835 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 1: Some people, their financial life gets so complicated in dealing 836 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: with financial planning and estate planning and building trusts and 837 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: wills and some of these things where they just they 838 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: need to outsource it because it just becomes overwhelming. For 839 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: other people, it could be that they just think that 840 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: their time and energy is better spent somewhere else and 841 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: they want to just outsource to an expert. So I 842 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: pay one of the things that I like to pay for. 843 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: You talked earlier about you know, what are some of 844 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: the things that you have to splore h on on. I 845 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,919 Speaker 1: guess one of them I forgot was I don't mind, 846 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: especially since I have young kids paying for time, and 847 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: so I pay for a lawn service to cut my 848 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: it even though I'm perfectly willing and able to do 849 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: it myself. I save myself a couple hours a week 850 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: by not doing that, so I don't mind paying for it. 851 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: So I don't mind outsourcing to people who can do 852 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: it better than me and and potentially do it faster 853 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: than me. So I think part of it is some 854 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: people just want to outsource and just have some help 855 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: making decisions and going through the decision process. And and 856 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: one of the things that we found from this this 857 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: COVID crisis, especially when things were we were really in 858 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: the heat of it in March and April, is we 859 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: had tons and tons of people reach out to us 860 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: because I think they finally realized. You know, when things 861 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: are going well and you're in a bowl market and 862 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: stocks are going up, it just makes everyone feel like 863 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: they're a genius because you know things are going up 864 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: and your money, your money is growing, and why would 865 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 1: I ever want anyone to help me? And when things 866 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 1: are going down and you're in a crisis, people freeze 867 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: like a deer in the headlight sometimes and they really 868 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: don't know what to do next and what steps to take. 869 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: And sometimes you just want someone there who can help 870 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 1: you walk through the decision making process and and kind 871 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: of help you make better decisions and and help you 872 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: make sure that whatever you're doing is going to be 873 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,479 Speaker 1: okay in the right decision. Obviously, no financial advisor can 874 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: predict the future, but they can help you use probabilities 875 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: to to to make decisions based on you know, your 876 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: current information and circumstances and make changes over time. So 877 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people assume they're going to 878 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: financial advisor because well, you're gonna pick the best portfolio 879 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: for me, and you're gonna pick the best securities and 880 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: give me the best investment returns. I think if that's 881 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: your idea of financial advisor, you're you're probably gonna be um, 882 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,439 Speaker 1: You're probably gonna find some pain in that that type 883 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: of decision, because most of the help that that we 884 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: think we provide is more on the financial planning side 885 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: of things and just helping people make sure that their 886 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: their financial life is in order and that they can 887 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: make decisions and be confident in the decisions they make. 888 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: You know, when they have questions about how they should 889 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: spend their money and and and you know, can they retire, 890 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: and can they can they buy this second home or 891 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: whatever it is? And just feel good? Can I send 892 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: my kids to this college they want to go? Do 893 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: these sort of things where you're trying to make decisions 894 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: with imperfect information. That's helpful. Hey, Ben, has been such 895 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: a great conversation. We really appreciate your time and all 896 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: your wisdom. Uh for and for our listeners. Where can 897 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: they find out more kind of about you and what 898 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: you're up to. Yeah, just go to a Wealth of 899 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: common Sense is my my blog. You can find my 900 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: my podcast there too, and list of my books and 901 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: all that stuff. But I published pretty regularly, so anyone 902 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 1: in the blog you should be able to find me. Awesome. Well, Ben, 903 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: thanks so much. We really appreciate it, so thanks again 904 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: for coming on the podcast. Yeah, thanks guys, Yeah, thanks again, Ben. 905 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,720 Speaker 1: All Right, Matt, great conversation, Love me some Ben Carlson. 906 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: His his website is awesome. This book was interesting. I 907 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: loved talking about financial scams to It's something we haven't 908 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: really talked about this show very much. And he definitely 909 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: had some interesting ones to share with us, like you 910 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: like that Billy got Nut story. That was fascinating. I 911 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: see why that was his favorite. Why I picked that one? 912 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: Definitely an interesting, uh, interesting way to scam somebody. But yeah, 913 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,399 Speaker 1: I wanted to know what was your big takeaway from 914 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: this conversation. Yeah, man, mine would be social security. That's 915 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: something that we asked about and the way I have 916 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: always thought about it, uh, is the way that he 917 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: mentioned that probably a lot of millennials, a lot of 918 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: Gen's ears do think about social security, if they ever 919 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: do actually think about it, which is it's not going 920 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: to be there by the time I get old and retire. 921 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: I've always seen it that way. I tend to be 922 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,720 Speaker 1: sort of like a black and white kind of guy's 923 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: either on or it's off. And so I think I've 924 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: always seen the glass half empty, and I've always thought, Okay, 925 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 1: there's no way it's gonna be there for me at all. Uh. 926 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: And so because of that, I think that maybe that's 927 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: part of what's led me to maybe be a little 928 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: bit more diligent of a saver and investor. But it's 929 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 1: encouraging to hear from him, someone who's you know, in 930 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: wealth management and does this day in and day out, 931 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: that he does see it still being there down the road, 932 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,280 Speaker 1: but just maybe at a reduced capacity. Maybe that means 933 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: there's gonna be more taxes, more payroll taxes to pay 934 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 1: for that increased social security as we live longer, or 935 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: maybe it will be only at eight percent of what 936 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: it is today. But regardless, it was still encouraging to 937 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: hear that, like, you know what, there there probably will 938 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: still be some money there for us, because you know, 939 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: like you mentioned, like what politician is gonna say, you 940 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 1: know what, we don't need anymore social here. Who wants 941 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: to jump on macarnade, right, And nobody's going to do that. 942 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna do that. And so what that means though 943 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: for me, is that I'm not going to stop and 944 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: saving and investing within my retirement accounts, right. I just 945 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: know though that there might be a little something there, 946 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: you know, down the road that I can maybe count on. 947 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: It may not be there, but there will be this 948 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: nice little treat, versus they're not being something there at all, 949 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: which is basically how I've always seen it. Yeah, I'm 950 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: kind of assuming that Social Security is going to be 951 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,359 Speaker 1: there for me, but I'm also not planning on it there, 952 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: if you know what I'm saying, Like, I just it 953 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: doesn't matter to me necessarily how much I will have. 954 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,800 Speaker 1: It's gonna be gravy. That's the way I'm thinking about 955 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 1: saving and investing for the future. But yeah, I think 956 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 1: that was those helpful thoughts from being on that for sure. Sure. 957 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: My big takeaway I would say was when Ben talked 958 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: about the biggest takeaway for people avoiding scams in the 959 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 1: every day and he was basically his answer was avoiding 960 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: anything that sounds too good to be true. And there 961 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: are a lot of pitches out there on the Internet 962 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: right now, even for investing, for private ways to invest. 963 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,800 Speaker 1: And it's not all ways the Bernie madeoffs of this world. 964 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: Oftentimes it's it's things called private placement. And you think 965 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: that you're at a special advantage to invest in a 966 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: particular way, maybe it's through real estate online or in 967 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,959 Speaker 1: startup investing. I mean, there are all these different ways 968 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: now that we can invest thanks to the Internet. But 969 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,760 Speaker 1: at the same time, there's a huge potential for downfall. 970 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: And I think the biggest thing we need to be 971 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: aware of whether it's someone we know or someone we 972 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: don't know pitching us investment advice that is too good 973 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 1: to be true, or whether it's a website on the 974 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: Internet that that a friend is steered us towards, or 975 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,879 Speaker 1: that we've seen advertised on Facebook or something like that. Well, 976 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: there are lots of investment avenues that are just too 977 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: good to be true. And maybe, like Sir Isaac Newton, 978 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: you might make money in the short term, but in 979 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 1: the long run, you're going to to lose quite a 980 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: bit of money, I think in those non tried, untrue 981 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: ways to build wealth. So yeah, I thought that was 982 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: a good answer to avoid anything that just sounds too 983 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: good to be true, and you'll avoid most of the 984 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: scams out there. So true. Man, all right, let's get 985 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: it back to what we're drinking. And at the top 986 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: of the episode, man, you mentioned that having a beer, 987 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: but we're actually having beers. Were having two beers that 988 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: are blended together. Um. And so this one again was 989 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: donated to us by Andy, a friend of the show. 990 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,240 Speaker 1: He is out of Utah, and he donated two beers 991 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: by ketost Brewing, a coconut stout as well as a 992 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: coffee cream ale. And he had mentioned that that he 993 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: would recommend taking these two beers and mixing them together, 994 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: sort of like a black and tan, And it kind 995 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 1: of caught me off. Go ex likecly, what uh saw 996 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: you're roll landing? No way, Yeah, it's I actually looked 997 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: it up and it's it's I guess folks who are 998 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,359 Speaker 1: there locally, that's basically what the locals do. And when 999 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: you go into the brewery, you can request I guess 1000 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: a half and half or a black and tan, and 1001 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,240 Speaker 1: the blend these two beers, so you get a blend 1002 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: of the coconut stout with the coffee cream ale and 1003 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: it gives you this really delicious beer. So yeah, man, 1004 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 1: what were your thoughts? Yeah, I don't know if I've 1005 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,399 Speaker 1: ever mixed two beers together, but what a better time 1006 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: to do it than today? Right? Um? And so yeah, 1007 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting. I think, no wonder they 1008 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: mixed well together, the coconut, the coffee cream stout in 1009 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,479 Speaker 1: an ale. I think the way that they came together 1010 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: actually kind of made this a really interesting beer. It 1011 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 1: had like a little bit of a hazelnut vibe, a 1012 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: little bit of light coffee action going on when you 1013 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: mix these two beers together with like a little bit 1014 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: of cream in it. So yeah, definitely kind of a 1015 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 1: fun concoction. I thought it was super interesting. Yeah, the 1016 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: fact that we've mixed a stout with an ale, you know, 1017 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: you're kind of meeting somewhere in the middle. And so 1018 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 1: to me, this one kind of drinks almost like a 1019 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: brown ale, right, Like, so you've got some of those 1020 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: darker flavors where you can maybe taste that coffee, you 1021 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: can taste even a little bit of coconut there, but 1022 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 1: it's not super heavy and it doesn't kind of weigh 1023 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: you down. You get a lot of that darker flavor, 1024 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: but it doesn't fill you up. I feel like this 1025 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,760 Speaker 1: is like an ad for like a widely produced light beer. 1026 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: It doesn't feel you up, always satisfy as and never 1027 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: fills you up. But yeah, this again was a really 1028 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,879 Speaker 1: tasty one. And this is from Keytoast Brewing and it's 1029 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: spelled k I I t O S. And I'm pretty 1030 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 1: sure the like the whole ethos or you know, like 1031 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: the name of the brewery Quytoast, like it's all Finnish, 1032 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: or it's from Finland, Like the beer isn't from Finland, 1033 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: but like I s who started it, it's like they're 1034 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 1: basically trying to incorporate a lot of Finnish ethos into 1035 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 1: their beer. So really cool one. If you are out 1036 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: there in Salt Lake City, we would recommend you go 1037 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: by there and check them out. Yeah, no doubt, all right, 1038 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: And for anybody who wants the show notes for this episode, 1039 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: will post a link to Ben's website, his book and 1040 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: a couple of the articles that he's written that we 1041 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: really like to and you can find those show notes 1042 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,720 Speaker 1: up on our website at how to money dot com. 1043 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,319 Speaker 1: And as always, we would be incredibly thankful if you 1044 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: were not just an occasional listener to How the Money, 1045 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 1: but that you were a subscriber. So if you haven't 1046 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,800 Speaker 1: already subscribed to the show, we would ask you to 1047 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,919 Speaker 1: head over to wherever you're listening to this episode mash 1048 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: that subscribe button. And if you have been listening for 1049 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,840 Speaker 1: a while and maybe you haven't left us a review, 1050 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: Joel and I would be very thankful if you were 1051 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,960 Speaker 1: to head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a 1052 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: review over there. So Joel, that's gonna be a buddy. 1053 00:47:49,680 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: Until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out. M 1054 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: M