Speaker 1: The volume. All right, it's time for our weekly hour
Speaker 1: with John Middlekoff, who will eventually take some time off.
Speaker 1: He got married last weekend. Let's do a few minutes
Speaker 1: on March madness. So the last three weekends, this is
Speaker 1: what I do. I sit around and watch streaming shows
Speaker 1: at night, and I watch college basketball most of the day.
Speaker 1: It was pretty obvious if you watch college basketball. The
Speaker 1: SEC got fourteen teams in I'd said this multiple times
Speaker 1: on FS one. It just looked different. I mean, the
Speaker 1: Big Ten didn't even look like the SEC. SEC is deeper,
Speaker 1: more athletic, better offensive teams, better scoring options. Michigan State's
Speaker 1: as good as any Big Ten team I saw this season,
Speaker 1: and they don't really have any shooters. They rebound, they defend,
Speaker 1: they have a great coach in tom I isno, but
Speaker 1: they'll struggle to score against good teams. I think the
Speaker 1: SEC is going to fly through this. I have Auburn
Speaker 1: winning the national championship. I think all these CC teams
Speaker 1: are going to do pretty well in the tournament. Florida
Speaker 1: Auburn are exceptional because they've played each other. I mean,
Speaker 1: Florida wasn't great at the beginning of the year. They've
Speaker 1: been on fire now a lot of times. The hottest team,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really translate. But I watched Auburn played two
Speaker 1: or three times deep, multiple guys that could give you
Speaker 1: twelve fifteen points. Good coach, good size, aggressive, Houston is
Speaker 1: a very good basketball team. But I'll take a couple
Speaker 1: of SEC teams in dupe. I'll take Florida, Auburn, and
Speaker 1: probably Duke Cooper. Flag will be healthy by the time
Speaker 1: the tournament rolls around.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's the difference is when you watch college football last year,
Speaker 1: Ohio State, year before, Michigan, year before that, Georgia, you
Speaker 1: get a real the Joe Burrow LSU team. You can
Speaker 1: see the NFL. You can see all these players, you know,
Speaker 1: these twelve guys that are going to go to the NFL.
Speaker 1: Last year's Yukon team, which went thirty seven to three,
Speaker 1: I picked them to win. That's the easiest pick I've
Speaker 1: ever made. That team looked a little bit like an
Speaker 1: NBA team. Big size, great versatility, huge physicality, didn't make
Speaker 1: a ton of mistakes. A guy that could coach in
Speaker 1: the NBA coach early. That was a really good college
Speaker 1: basketball team. The best one that I've seen in years.
Speaker 1: I mean, even against Purdue in the National Championship not
Speaker 1: really that competitive. It's different tea. You're going to see
Speaker 1: a lot of close games. I mean, I watch Houston
Speaker 1: play Arizona. Houston's a lot of people are picking them
Speaker 1: to win the National Championship imminently beatable, great defensive team.
Speaker 1: But I think if you watch college basketball, because it's
Speaker 1: such a young sport and the really talented guys are
Speaker 1: one and done, so even the guys that are really special,
Speaker 1: many of them aren't developed offensively. But when you watch
Speaker 1: college basketball, it doesn't look like the NBA. The offenses
Speaker 1: often just dump it down to the big guys. Purdue
Speaker 1: and Zach Edy just here's our big dump it down
Speaker 1: and it's going to dominate. So I'm going to go
Speaker 1: with the most athletic teams I saw. I'm going to
Speaker 1: go with the teams that played in the hardest conference easily.
Speaker 1: I mean, no conference has ever had fourteen teams in it.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna you know, these people that are upset
Speaker 1: that North Carolina has got a playing game because they
Speaker 1: had a terrible record one in twelve against Quad one teams.
Speaker 1: They had some good out of conference wins before the
Speaker 1: season started. Not worth the argument that used to be
Speaker 1: fun ten fifteen years ago arguing for that team to
Speaker 1: get in. But you know, if they win one game,
Speaker 1: that's probably the ceiling and the team. You know, it
Speaker 1: just I think we all kind of know the teams
Speaker 1: that have a chance to win. And I also think
Speaker 1: when teams are close, I like experienced coaches. You know,
Speaker 1: I like Rick Patino. I don't think Michigan State can
Speaker 1: win four games, but I like Iszo or you know,
Speaker 1: coaches that have been in this spot before. That's an advantage.
Speaker 2: A lot of this.
Speaker 1: Stuff is going to end up being like seventy two
Speaker 1: seventy and take the better coaches because I don't think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of teams. I mean, again, Cooper Flag,
Speaker 1: if healthy, will be the best team in the tournament,
Speaker 1: and maybe he's just good enough, you know, to just
Speaker 1: take them to six wins. But I don't have any
Speaker 1: strong conviction on it. Last year I took Yukon and
Speaker 1: I thought that was I mean I watched Yukon and
Speaker 1: Gonzaga and Duke a lot. Those are my teams. It
Speaker 1: was pretty obvious they were just bigger and more physical
Speaker 1: and push teams around and that was an easy one.
Speaker 1: I'll go Auburn, but I have really no conviction somebody.
Speaker 1: I think SEC teams will play very well in the tournament. Okay,
Speaker 1: we bring on John Middlecoff three and Out podcast, former
Speaker 1: NFL scout, newly married. I just gave my pick Auburn
Speaker 1: the first time in school history. They are a number
Speaker 1: one seed. I was saying. When you watch college football
Speaker 1: at the highest levels, you can see the NFL. You
Speaker 1: could see Ohio States players. You're like, oh, those guys
Speaker 1: are going to be great NFL players. College basketball it's
Speaker 1: really difficult. The best players do want and done. Do
Speaker 1: you watch a ton of college hoops? No?
Speaker 2: Not really. I mean I used to do a lot
Speaker 2: growing up, but I would say over the eight to
Speaker 2: ten years, I mean, let's face of the product's been diminished.
Speaker 2: I mean, I dive in come Thursday Friday. But Rutgers
Speaker 2: has two guys that are we could go in the
Speaker 2: top five and didn't sniff the tournament. How's that? This basketball?
Speaker 2: This isn't football. I mean the two guys on the
Speaker 2: court at all times, and I checked their stats the
Speaker 2: other day they both were good this year. It's stuff
Speaker 2: like that that like, you know, I grew up Allen
Speaker 2: Iverson Shack, all those the top guys played college basketball,
Speaker 2: and it was awesome. You're a Tark guy, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm a Fresno State guy when Tark went to Fresno
Speaker 2: State with Chris Herron. I love college basketball as a kid,
Speaker 2: but it's just it's not really the same though the
Speaker 2: nil era little bounced back with Cooper Flag and some
Speaker 2: of the guys recently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's hard to tell a twenty year
Speaker 1: old what college basketball was like twenty years ago. It's
Speaker 1: the only sport, the only sport that's less talented than
Speaker 1: it was twenty years ago. Boxing's probably the second because
Speaker 1: some guys who would have boxed went into UFC, and
Speaker 1: it used to be you'd get Patrick Ewing coming back
Speaker 1: for a third year and Tim Duncan and Chris Paul.
Speaker 1: So it's just I mean, I always tell young people,
Speaker 1: go watch five Slamma Jama, go watch the high lights
Speaker 1: on YouTube. That's what college basketball. And they never won
Speaker 1: a Natty. There was a team that had Chris Mullen,
Speaker 1: Bill Wennington, Walter Berry, Mark Jackson at Saint John's and
Speaker 1: did not win a national championship. Filama Jama had the
Speaker 1: Clyde Drexler, Larry Mshu, Rob Young. I'm missing two or
Speaker 1: three guys did not win a national championship, So it's
Speaker 1: just different. It's it's like again, Cooper Flag's great. If
Speaker 1: Cooper Flagg came back two more years and they had
Speaker 1: three other NBA guys that would have been Duke twenty years.
Speaker 2: Ago, there is talk about him coming back. Now, wake
Speaker 2: me when that actually happens. I am fascinated though, and
Speaker 2: you and I talk so much college football during the
Speaker 2: fall and we both love it. And obviously the growth
Speaker 2: of the SEC over the last ten to fifteen years
Speaker 2: really the saving effect. Yeah. I could be wrong here,
Speaker 2: but I thought I saw on Twitter like fifteen twenty
Speaker 2: minutes ago the SEC just set a record, Yeah, fourteen teams.
Speaker 2: And I've been fascinating. When I got married last week
Speaker 2: in Tennessee, my brother and I and my brother in
Speaker 2: law we played golf at Vanderbilt's golf course. We actually
Speaker 2: hate Manning was out there. Their clubhouse at the Vanderbilt
Speaker 2: golf Course was as big as any clubhouse, non like
Speaker 2: Olympic club I've ever seen. That wasn't even the old
Speaker 2: clubhouse at the golf course. The SEC money because of
Speaker 2: the football programs over the last fifteen twenty years. You
Speaker 2: know better than me. But when I think SEC basketball,
Speaker 2: forever Kentucky and there was always you know, Florida Billy Donovan. Now,
Speaker 2: I know they got fourteen teams, but they got five
Speaker 2: or six that could, like should win the national championship.
Speaker 2: I just thought Nat Oates had a quote that anything
Speaker 2: less than a Final four this Alabama basketball is a disappointment.
Speaker 2: So at the gym, I was watching Tennessee Florida day.
Speaker 2: It was fantastic. Okay, how good is so the talent
Speaker 2: in the SEC because of the football money baseball, they
Speaker 2: dominate golf, they dominate basketball. They've been good. They have
Speaker 2: clearly taken another stick up right these last four or
Speaker 2: five years with the money behind it.
Speaker 1: I watched Michigan Michigan State, and Michigan won the Big
Speaker 1: Ten tournament. I watched some of that. I've seen Purdue play,
Speaker 1: I've seen Michigan State play, you know, and I've seen
Speaker 1: you know, Oregon play, yeah, and UCLA multiple times. In
Speaker 1: my takeaway is the Big Ten's just I mean, Michigan
Speaker 1: won the Big Ten tourney. I think they're a fifth seed.
Speaker 1: So it's the only sport where the conference championships have
Speaker 1: no impact off and on the seating. So no, it's
Speaker 1: just one of I think for people that haven't been
Speaker 1: to the South, they may struggle. Like I was talking
Speaker 1: to an SEC fan the other day and he goes,
Speaker 1: we really can't compete with Ohio State and Michigan money
Speaker 1: USC now they're collective in football's eighteen million, Oregon's is
Speaker 1: sky's the limit. They can still kind of compete, But
Speaker 1: there are the big dogs in a Big Ten are
Speaker 1: really at the top of the food chain, Texas being
Speaker 1: you know, the obvious dominant the minute they walked into
Speaker 1: the SEC. That's the Rockefellers of that conference. They just
Speaker 1: have as much money as they need. But in the
Speaker 1: other sports, the Big Ten money gets funneled to football.
Speaker 1: But in the other sports, I watch actually a lot
Speaker 1: of Big Ten basketball over the last three or four weeks.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't look like SEC basketball. I watched Auburn
Speaker 1: play probably in January once, February twice, and I watched
Speaker 1: them here in March, you know, for thirty minutes each time.
Speaker 1: As you said, it's just athletes everywhere and deep. They
Speaker 1: have like eight guys that can give you double figures
Speaker 1: if it was their night. So it's just different. And
Speaker 1: whereas in the Big Ten football makes you a lot
Speaker 1: of money and some basketball teams do, in the SEC,
Speaker 1: baseball makes bless you a lot of money. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a different ball game. So and I also think what
Speaker 1: you're seeing is in football, John, I think those Pac
Speaker 1: twelve teams that moved into the Big Ten are fine.
Speaker 1: The weather argument's weak because your last game USC UCLA
Speaker 1: play each other at the end of the season. So
Speaker 1: the truth is your last game is like you know,
Speaker 1: November seventeenth, team may have a cold game at Penn State.
Speaker 1: It's really tough on the basketball teams. I looked at
Speaker 1: UCLA's travel schedule this year. You just I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like it's like got an NBA feel. You're back across
Speaker 1: the country all the time. And that's where I think
Speaker 1: the Pac twelve teams are really those four teams that
Speaker 1: went into the Big Ten. I think in basketball it's
Speaker 1: really hard for UCLA and USC and Washington and Oregon
Speaker 1: the trade when you're playing multiple games a week. I
Speaker 1: don't think they'll have great impact in that conference for
Speaker 1: a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw Mix. Mix had some great lines this year.
Speaker 2: One of his was like that they had went to
Speaker 2: like around the Statue of Liberty multiple times throughout the season,
Speaker 2: and all the Big Ten teams are complaining about come
Speaker 2: out west. He's like, you guys are in zero degrees.
Speaker 2: You're coming out here to sunny southern California seventy eight degrees.
Speaker 2: Give me a break. You guys are having the time
Speaker 2: of your life coming out here. For us, it's it's
Speaker 2: more difficult, but that's what they all signed up for,
Speaker 2: the more money that comes along with it. That's where
Speaker 2: you know, Texas and Oklahoma, the travel is clearly not
Speaker 2: nearly as prohibitive and difficult. I mean, all these people
Speaker 2: get to come home, even the Big Ten. I mean
Speaker 2: one one problem I think for the West Coast teams
Speaker 2: in basketball is they get stuck out there. You know,
Speaker 2: guy Haveberman calls games for the Big Ten. All the
Speaker 2: you know, the core teams of the Big Ten go
Speaker 2: home after games and then go back to their opponent
Speaker 2: when they play two games in a week. That clearly
Speaker 2: isn't the case for USC, you know, UCLA, Washington, Oregon.
Speaker 2: They're just kind of stuck. And that's just listen, this
Speaker 2: move was made for football in basketball is kind of
Speaker 2: a lung for the ride here.
Speaker 1: That's right, That's absolutely right, and I think UCLA and
Speaker 1: USC are both feeling it. Okay, let's do some NFL.
Speaker 1: You know, I had said this last year. I thought
Speaker 1: the Niners were going to start regressing. I thought they
Speaker 1: should have started the rebuild last year. They did it.
Speaker 2: This year.
Speaker 1: They let Debo and Hufunga and green Law, Savarious Ward go.
Speaker 1: They have twelve draft picks, but it's a week draft,
Speaker 1: so let's say you hit on six year draft picks.
Speaker 1: I thought last year was the first year in the
Speaker 1: last several I just didn't think their defense was intimidating.
Speaker 1: I thought when Bosa was off the field, it was weak.
Speaker 1: I thought you could kind of manipulate it. I said this,
Speaker 1: I think Darnold and the Seahawks have a chance to
Speaker 1: be really interesting. Where are you on the Niners right now?
Speaker 1: A lot of draft picks. I mean, they didn't want
Speaker 1: to let Haufunga and Greenlaw go. Those are excellent instinctive players.
Speaker 1: I mean, now you're getting to a point now where
Speaker 1: you're really crossing your fingers with Christian McCaffrey and Trent
Speaker 1: Williams big time.
Speaker 2: I think every move in a vacuum is easy to justify.
Speaker 2: It's not. I mean green Law was coming off of
Speaker 2: torn achilles, came back for a half, he looked like
Speaker 2: Fred Warner junior, and then couldn't play the rest of
Speaker 2: the season. Who fungat acl multiple injuries to it, like
Speaker 2: all the moves in a vacuum. Oh, let him go.
Speaker 2: You're not going to pay that much for banks, trade
Speaker 2: this backup running back who was going to make five
Speaker 2: million dollars on the totality, though, You go, that's losing
Speaker 2: a lot of guys like who are going to be
Speaker 2: your backups? I think they would have somewhat started it
Speaker 2: last year. It's much more difficult, though, when you have
Speaker 2: a team coming off being up late in the Super
Speaker 2: Bowl against the current dynasty. So you go, we are
Speaker 2: right there. All these guys are championship level players. I
Speaker 2: think they're big mistake in where they got really rattled
Speaker 2: for a long period of time. The Niners, like fifteen
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, they could extend the Patrick Willis's, the
Speaker 2: Frank Ors, the Vernon Davis's, relatively cheap, and they were
Speaker 2: great at it because Parrague Marat, their mundy guy is elite.
Speaker 2: He's like Howie Roseman, but he's not a GM. He
Speaker 2: just like runs the Yorks money and he runs their
Speaker 2: international soccer team well as the Caps exploded players. I
Speaker 2: don't want to say it's the NBA, but they do
Speaker 2: have a lot more juice. When Jamar Chase says I'm
Speaker 2: not playing for anything less than third forty million dollars,
Speaker 2: like he's not really bullshit, Like he's not taking a discount.
Speaker 2: The top guys have some juice, but now the middle
Speaker 2: tier guys, like they would have laughed at Brandon Au
Speaker 2: ten years ago and they would have won, but they
Speaker 2: were kind of in no man's land, and their coach,
Speaker 2: you know, who has a lot of juice, didn't want
Speaker 2: to get rid of their best receiver, and he took
Speaker 2: advantage of him, and that really rattled them because they
Speaker 2: immediately regretted it. If they could do that all over again,
Speaker 2: they would have traded him before the draft instead. Now
Speaker 2: they're trying to trade him. He's got an ACL and
Speaker 2: like he's untradeable for anything of value, and they're kind
Speaker 2: of in a weird spot. But the elephant in the
Speaker 2: room is the quarterback. And listen, Mike Silver has known
Speaker 2: the Shanahan family for thirty plus years and he's been
Speaker 2: reporting like they are telling everyone, take a deep breath,
Speaker 2: we're cutting some costs and we got to kind of
Speaker 2: recalibrate because I think they saw what the Rams did
Speaker 2: these last couple of years. Yes, now the difference is
Speaker 2: and look look what the Bills did last year. I
Speaker 2: mean the Bills got rid of like half their big names. Well,
Speaker 2: Josh Allen's one of the greatest talents I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: And Matt Stafford, while older, was right there with would
Speaker 2: be con Josh Allen ten years ago. He just played
Speaker 2: first shitty franchise Like that's not Brock Purty and we
Speaker 2: all know that. Look at the NFC colin the two
Speaker 2: best quarterbacks you'd say, you know, I would say win
Speaker 2: wise and statistically would be Jalen and Jared Goff are
Speaker 2: on loaded rosters offensively, Like we would say, you put
Speaker 2: either one of those guys on like the Jags or
Speaker 2: a bad team, it's gonna be props. Pretty's the same thing.
Speaker 2: When he's on a good team, he's proven he canna
Speaker 2: be a really good player, but like if you're cutting
Speaker 2: costs and depending on some randos, it's just it's a
Speaker 2: pretty scary I do think they are gonna low ball
Speaker 2: brock perty and they're gonna make this more difficult because
Speaker 2: they before it was just like hey, Trent, what do
Speaker 2: you want? Which I know would have a problem with
Speaker 2: doing that to Trent. Yeah, but the two receivers, it's like,
Speaker 2: you're not Jamar Chase and your team doesn't play like that.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. Like I get the Cowboys.
Speaker 2: They throw out to Ceedee Lamb every other play. Brendon
Speaker 2: and I you had a career year seventy five. But
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, they do have a
Speaker 2: big time coach at a bad year, but he's proven
Speaker 2: to be really good and still a culture. They get
Speaker 2: Robert solid Back. I wouldn't count him out yet, but
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a lot of new names Colin, and
Speaker 2: they're gonna be very dependent on these high They have
Speaker 2: the eleventh pick, like you need a Micae Parsons, you
Speaker 2: need to you know, look at the Eagles and the Cowboy,
Speaker 2: When the Cowboys got Mike or the Eagles got Davonte Smith,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to nail this well.
Speaker 1: And also, there are certain positions in football running back,
Speaker 1: I think wide receiver, some say cornerback, where you can
Speaker 1: come in and make an impact pretty quickly. It's very instinctive.
Speaker 1: But where the Niners are drafting offensive line, maybe another
Speaker 1: tight end, you know, a play calling linebacker, a crucial
Speaker 1: safety in their defense. Those are hard positions to go
Speaker 1: college and pro. I mean, if you look at very
Speaker 1: few tight ends come into this league, brock Bauers is
Speaker 1: a total outlier. Very good tight ends have struggled because
Speaker 1: the blocking assignments now are so so difficult compared to college.
Speaker 1: So the Niners are asking players from college in the
Speaker 1: twelve draft picks to come into positions replace excellent instinctive,
Speaker 1: smart veteran players. Forget just making tackles. I mean green
Speaker 1: law is, I mean he is. He and Warner are
Speaker 1: anchors and communicators, and I think those kind of positions
Speaker 1: to replace, I have no problem. You know, it'd be
Speaker 1: one thing. If they're replacing you know, one corner one
Speaker 1: running back, you get to the offensive line. In Kyle
Speaker 1: Shanahan's system, you're lost until Thanksgiving. That's a tough rebuild.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. Same with wide receivers. I mean, same
Speaker 2: with listen. Even if they draft a defensive lineman with
Speaker 2: the eleventh pick, Khalil Mack, who's one of the better
Speaker 2: players of his generation. I think at four and a
Speaker 2: half sacks his rookie year. Yeah, Jared Verse last year,
Speaker 2: who came on toward the end, wasn't a dominant, dominant
Speaker 2: force all season long.
Speaker 1: I covered Warren Sap in Tampa. It wasn't until the
Speaker 1: end of his first year that he made an impact.
Speaker 1: Here two he was fantastic. But this league, there are
Speaker 1: guys that can make impacts. But I don't see the Niners.
Speaker 2: Their schedule sucks, their schedules bad. They have a last
Speaker 2: play schedule and they get to draft really high in
Speaker 2: every round. I think one of the divisions they play
Speaker 2: is the AFC South. I mean, I would say even
Speaker 2: before this mass exodus, I still think ten wins is
Speaker 2: very very you know, look at what the Rams have
Speaker 2: done these last couple of years. I think sometimes when
Speaker 2: you are as they say in most you know, world
Speaker 2: industries on boarding players, I think McVeigh uses that too.
Speaker 2: It takes a little time and then you kind of
Speaker 2: catch fire. I mean I think they were they one
Speaker 2: and four last year, and two and three and six
Speaker 2: the year before. Now, you don't want to make a living.
Speaker 2: It's you do that ten times. A lot of times
Speaker 2: you're gonna end up with seven or eight wins. But
Speaker 2: you start a little slow and then you peak. One
Speaker 2: thing is very, very key for the forty nine ers.
Speaker 2: I'd say two guys. Trent Williams gotta be on the field.
Speaker 2: And if Christian McCaffrey is just healthy, which who knows,
Speaker 2: I mean multiple a keilles. He tore his knee, but
Speaker 2: he is a major, major wild card in the NFL,
Speaker 2: going back to the Panther days. When he's on the field,
Speaker 2: he's one of the best players in the league. When
Speaker 2: he's off, especially with Kyle, he kind of derails their operation.
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Speaker 1: So I thought the team, you can tell who has
Speaker 1: the power in most organizations. McVeigh runs the Rams. I
Speaker 1: think Shanahan until recently had power on the draft. Andy
Speaker 1: Reid doesn't want it necessarily, Belichick did, Sean Payton does
Speaker 1: in Denver. You can tell the moves when coaches are
Speaker 1: making Chicago clear signaled that Ben Johnson's running the show
Speaker 1: for him to replace the entire interior. O line was
Speaker 1: telling Ryan Poles, you got your picks, stink, And I thought, frankly,
Speaker 1: for the Chicago Bears, who I've been saying this for
Speaker 1: so many years, they're like, they're just a defensive culture.
Speaker 1: For a guy to come in and spend money on
Speaker 1: guards and centers, I thought it was a real moment
Speaker 1: in the history of the Chicago Bears. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: this field. I mean, how many years have the Steelers
Speaker 1: been hamming egging it on their offensive line? Tomlin runs
Speaker 1: the show. I for the first time that I can remember.
Speaker 1: I really like the direction where the Bears are going well.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes when you get like the whiz kid,
Speaker 2: the great offensive coordinator, they just want to score points
Speaker 2: and they're thinking quarterback and wide receiver. Ben Johnson's pretty lucky.
Speaker 2: That is welcome to stardom in the NFL. Started with
Speaker 2: the trenches. I mean, I mean, let's face it, the
Speaker 2: Lions really separated them with a dominant offensive line. So
Speaker 2: they go and trade for a guy. It's crazy. You
Speaker 2: and I talk about these young quarterbacks. By that second
Speaker 2: year Thanksgiving, it's like you're on the clock, like your
Speaker 2: career is in troubles. It's like that now with free
Speaker 2: agency the Rams side, Joja Jackson last year, three years,
Speaker 2: fifty one million dollars. Less than a year later, it's
Speaker 2: like traded. I mean these teams now, the money and
Speaker 2: the cash bonuses sealing that not in a million years,
Speaker 2: I would say, up till what seven eight years ago,
Speaker 2: would have ever happened because no owner, it's like he's
Speaker 2: a good player, and it's like, yeah, not a great fit.
Speaker 2: Seal later. So they get a guy that they know
Speaker 2: the Falcon Center is good and you see Andy Reid's
Speaker 2: quotes on Toony, He's like he's one of the toughest
Speaker 2: guys I've ever We don't want to trade this guy.
Speaker 2: We just there's money involved and we can't afford to
Speaker 2: keep them. One of them play play.
Speaker 1: We had the best year of his career arguably because
Speaker 1: he went to left tackle.
Speaker 2: And was excellent. To me, he's like his generation's Logan Mankins.
Speaker 2: I mean, just a plug and play guy who could
Speaker 2: play multiple positions as a stud. The other thing is
Speaker 2: when you have a smaller quarterback, you know, non paid Manning,
Speaker 2: Tom Brady, the FLA Gol. That generation, all those guys
Speaker 2: were huge, you know, Carson Palmer, Caleb. This generation is
Speaker 2: a little smaller. Well, Sean Payton dealt with one in
Speaker 2: that generation, and they always invested in centers and guards.
Speaker 2: They had high because the pressure up the middle it
Speaker 2: rattles and he can't see where Peyton, Manning and Tom Brady.
Speaker 2: Historically they had some pretty random guys on some seasons
Speaker 2: when they had good teams playing center and guard, they
Speaker 2: get away with it. Smaller quarterbacks cannot. It hurts pretty
Speaker 2: sometimes when they get in past situations and the garden
Speaker 2: center gets smoked. He's swimming. He can handle the outside
Speaker 2: pressure because he can move around. Same with Caleb, he
Speaker 2: can move, but up the middle you are screwed. So
Speaker 2: they they could have I know they've invested draft picks
Speaker 2: and some tackles. But we'll see how good those guys
Speaker 2: turn out to be. But they went all in on
Speaker 2: the garden center position because I think with a smaller quarterback,
Speaker 2: it's really really important to just neutralize. Think how many
Speaker 2: teams also have a good interior pass rush now, So yeah,
Speaker 2: it was hard to I mean, that was a no
Speaker 2: brainer moved by the Bears. And Ryan Pole is pretty
Speaker 2: lucky that this the way this all. He kept his
Speaker 2: job and he's still here and he gets to be
Speaker 2: a part of this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean a couple of years ago, he whiffed on
Speaker 1: Villas Jones and I was like, oh, dude, you could
Speaker 1: have called me. And then the.
Speaker 2: Chase played with Rome. I mean, Rome was a pretty
Speaker 2: looking back. You should have taken an offensive lineman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Villas Jones, miss Chase Claypool, miss Roma Danze
Speaker 1: not as good as we thought.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So again, I think you and I agree. I think
Speaker 1: the Bears are heading in the right direction. You just
Speaker 1: pointed out something and I've been on this for a
Speaker 1: few years that I think there's a duality to all
Speaker 1: the owners being billionaires and some being ten fifteen, twenty billionaires.
Speaker 1: Is that number one. The downside is they're more willing
Speaker 1: to just fire people quickly. They're more impulsive than they've
Speaker 1: ever been when they were all worth six hundred million.
Speaker 1: You're you're not just riding a seventeen to twenty five
Speaker 1: million dollar check to blow out a staff. You're just
Speaker 1: not doing now. These guys will just blow out a
Speaker 1: seventy million dollars staff. So who does that hurt? It
Speaker 1: hurts a young quarterback who has to have another staff.
Speaker 1: So I mean Caleb Williams, even though he upgrades staffs,
Speaker 1: it's a brand new system. So that's the downside. The upside, though,
Speaker 1: is when you make a mistake with personnel like Rams
Speaker 1: and Jonah Jackson where it just didn't feel great, you
Speaker 1: can just move off it. And so you know this,
Speaker 1: you know you can never move off NBA contracts or
Speaker 1: baseball contracts. They're so guaranteed. In the NFL. Now, if
Speaker 1: you make a mistake, guys just write shacks and go
Speaker 1: all right, big jo, I mean for the Bears to
Speaker 1: get Drew Dolman and Joe Tooney. Jesus, you have your
Speaker 1: You're you may not be Philadelphia or Detroit, but that's
Speaker 1: a top three interior O line in the league.
Speaker 2: Well, let's you even use I mean, the craziest example
Speaker 2: currently is his cousin's example. Now, I know Arthur Blank
Speaker 2: is probably I don't know where he ranks, but he's
Speaker 2: not near the bottom when it comes to wealth. They're like, well,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna shove us around. We're gonna pay you
Speaker 2: ten million for next year. He obviously he's not gonna
Speaker 2: be the team next year, and we'll eat it until
Speaker 2: we figure this out. But you are gonna capitulate and
Speaker 2: you're gonna give us a trade eventually before the season starts.
Speaker 2: That never would have happen. I thought it was like, no,
Speaker 2: no human lives is gonna give him ten million dollars
Speaker 2: guaranteed for next year. Cousin's gonna win this. They will
Speaker 2: cut him. I thought he'd be cut, you know, Wednesday Thursday.
Speaker 2: He's like, no, they just picked it up. But he's
Speaker 2: still there and we'll just have a staring contest. It's
Speaker 2: that that never would have happened without the influx of cash.
Speaker 2: I thought this when some of these deals are I
Speaker 2: mean Aaron Banks, the Niners left guard got, I mean
Speaker 2: so much money. Milton Williams, who is obviously a really
Speaker 2: talented players. He never played more than fifty percent of
Speaker 2: the snap for the Eagles, got twenty six million dollars
Speaker 2: a year.
Speaker 1: No, Milton Williams got paid like Aaron Donald. That contract
Speaker 1: was but again they had two hundred plus million dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think Milton Williams for New England, I got
Speaker 1: that that contract is stupid. But again, it's not a
Speaker 1: great defensive tackle class. And maybe it's just not. And
Speaker 1: so it's a great running back class, pretty good tight
Speaker 1: end class.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: There's some offensive tackles, none of them elite. But I
Speaker 1: saw somebody saying it didn't think it was a great
Speaker 1: defensive tackle class. You know, I'm not watching defensive tackle tape.
Speaker 1: We don't have a Jalen Carter obviously, but I think,
Speaker 1: like in New England's case, I'll give them a pass.
Speaker 1: I thought, to be honest with you, one of the
Speaker 1: strangest contracts to me was Cooper Cup. John Snyder the
Speaker 1: GM Seattle has almost never missed on receivers. Jesus, He's
Speaker 1: been fantastic with wide receivers. Cooper Cup doesn't separate. I mean,
Speaker 1: Sean McVeigh moves off a receiver. I mean they resigned
Speaker 1: two to Atwell because he gets open. They went and
Speaker 1: paid for older Devonte Adams because if you go look
Speaker 1: at the analytics, he gets open. Cooper Cup doesn't get
Speaker 1: open at all. And so the Milton Williams contract I
Speaker 1: get because of Rabel's trying to create. You know, it's
Speaker 1: a bad defensive tackle class. He's trying to get big.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of linebackers, a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Milton Williams twenty six years old.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the Cooper Cup deal when you look at
Speaker 1: the Sam Darnald contract, which could end up being just
Speaker 1: a one year, thirty seven million dollar deal, if you
Speaker 1: look at the way it's laid out, what do you
Speaker 1: think Darnald is a two to three year play in Seattle?
Speaker 1: Because the Cooper Cup move is like, damn, you are
Speaker 1: you going all in on samdy? What is this? Why?
Speaker 2: I thought the moment Gino was traded, it was pretty clear,
Speaker 2: and John Schneider doubled down. We tried to give him
Speaker 2: an extension. He wasn't going to play ball because he
Speaker 2: thought we were low balling him and we're just not
Speaker 2: paying a guy thirty five million dollars giving you an
Speaker 2: extension one hundred plus million dollars, and I you know
Speaker 2: what I'd say to John Schneider, that's the way to
Speaker 2: do it. That's good business. Well, you need a quarterback.
Speaker 2: And ultimately, like you said, Sam Darnald's not that much,
Speaker 2: not very expensive. No one is on his contract in
Speaker 2: the NFL. It doesn't really exis beside Baker last year,
Speaker 2: and Baker clearly is very underpaid. Now. I don't think
Speaker 2: Sam Donald's as good as Baker Mayfield. You know, I
Speaker 2: would take Baker Mayfield over Sam Donald. And obviously Sam
Speaker 2: benefited from playing with Justin Jefferson, who's probably a Hall
Speaker 2: of Famer, Jordan Addison's who's a star. It was a
Speaker 2: great situation. This situation, once they get rid of DK,
Speaker 2: is not as impressive. And I don't blame them for
Speaker 2: trading DK. Like Steelers gonn give him a hundred We
Speaker 2: can dive into that one hundred and fifty million dollars,
Speaker 2: But listen, coordinators matter with some of these. You know,
Speaker 2: if you're gonna if you're gonna buy a quarterback, especially
Speaker 2: fifty five million dollars, guaranteed Rock Party's gonna get one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty plus, so it's a tiny, tiny little number.
Speaker 2: And Clint Kubiak was with him in San Francisco with
Speaker 2: Kyle Shanahan and Brock thirty, so they know him really
Speaker 2: well and they feel comfortable with it. I think the
Speaker 2: one thing all the Shanahan guys will tell you is, I,
Speaker 2: then you can't play like this every single game. But
Speaker 2: in theory, they go into the game, they want to
Speaker 2: run the ball, and they only want to throw the
Speaker 2: ball twenty five to thirty times. And of those twenty
Speaker 2: five to thirty times, only ideally eight to ten are
Speaker 2: going to ask you to really be crazy good. A
Speaker 2: lot of these are going to be scripted in and
Speaker 2: out of your hand. It's a pretty easy scheme. It's
Speaker 2: why so many guys are, you know, the Cousins, the
Speaker 2: Matt Jobs, the less talented. We saw him last year
Speaker 2: in obviously he had more weapons, but listen, the last
Speaker 2: two games were really bad. He played really well last season.
Speaker 2: It's my big issue with going all in on JJ McCarthy,
Speaker 2: and we'll see the Aaron Rodgers thing is still out there.
Speaker 2: JJ McCarthy never threw more than twenty two touchdowns in college.
Speaker 2: He did not play like the way Kevin O'Connell and
Speaker 2: that offense wants to play. And I saw it with
Speaker 2: Trey Lance when the Niners got you're a young player,
Speaker 2: usually you go to shitty teams. It's like, I'll just
Speaker 2: you get to win five or six games your first year,
Speaker 2: No big deal. Like if Shador Standers gets drafted to
Speaker 2: the New York Giants or cam Ward to the Titans,
Speaker 2: the win loss record isn't as important as how it looks.
Speaker 2: That is not going to be the case with JJ McCarthy, right,
Speaker 2: if you don't win eleven twelve games, it's going to
Speaker 2: be a disaster. So replacing Sam Donald is not really
Speaker 2: easy where I think that. Listen, Geno's a solid player,
Speaker 2: but I do think he's being talked about a little
Speaker 2: differently than he actually is, especially once you start talking
Speaker 2: forty five to fifty million dollars like I'd be out
Speaker 2: of the business too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean listen, Geno's thirty four, Sam's twenty seven.
Speaker 1: So there is there is something to be said that
Speaker 1: Seattle's own line is not is not a top ten
Speaker 1: O line, and Sam moves well, and as they draft
Speaker 1: the O line, as it improves, by Thanksgiving. Sam can
Speaker 1: move the chains with his feet, and I think that's
Speaker 1: some of it. They kind of look at it as sad.
Speaker 1: If we're going to get a quarterback with this O
Speaker 1: line Geno and Aaron Rogers, they just don't move as well.
Speaker 1: Cousins doesn't move as well. Sam can buy us time
Speaker 1: as we develop our O line from this draft.
Speaker 2: But look at the other thing too. The last two years,
Speaker 2: who liked Sam Donald, Kyle Shanahan and Kevin O'Connell, The
Speaker 2: right guys are on them. They think really really highly
Speaker 2: of them and the Vikings and stand after those last
Speaker 2: two games, they had a financial decision to make. They
Speaker 2: signed a lot of guys that they wouldn't have been
Speaker 2: able to sign them all right without They re signed
Speaker 2: the corner. They sign a couple offensive lineman Hargrave Jonathan Allen.
Speaker 2: If Sam Donold's making forty plus million dollars for him,
Speaker 2: they're not gonna have attacked the same offseason. It's also why, though,
Speaker 2: like they're not dumb, they realize we go all in
Speaker 2: on this young quarterback. It's why they have to think
Speaker 2: about Aaron Rodgers, even if it is kind of crazy
Speaker 2: to everybody. Well, it's like JJ McCarthy could be a disaster.
Speaker 2: Kyle Shanahan's pretty good quarterbacks. Trey Lance would have dere
Speaker 2: if he listen. No one rooted for him to get injured,
Speaker 2: but once he got injured, it saved their season because
Speaker 2: it was he was not gonna be able to function.
Speaker 2: Now everyone will go, well, look at JJ in that
Speaker 2: preseason game. It's like, well, the preseason is a pretty
Speaker 2: big jump to the regular season, let alone big Sunday
Speaker 2: night games against the Packers and the Lions. Like it's
Speaker 2: a different animal. That's the one thing Seattle knows now,
Speaker 2: Like they get a guy who's been kind of under
Speaker 2: the ringer as a starter for a long time, so
Speaker 2: it's a ton of experience, but then played in real
Speaker 2: games all season long. Like every game the Vikings played
Speaker 2: in last year was like that was real. There was
Speaker 2: a lot on the line, especially as the season went on.
Speaker 2: So I thought the move was an easy one for
Speaker 2: John Schneider. I think it's pretty fascinating what the Vikings
Speaker 2: are doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I want to throw this with Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers and the Vikings, the Steelers, you know, the Giants interested.
Speaker 1: So I've said before the Vikings is the obvious choice
Speaker 1: if you could do it, if you wanted one more
Speaker 1: year with their personnel and their coach Giants two to me,
Speaker 1: Steelers three. I'll get to that in a second. But
Speaker 1: I went and watched a movie this morning at eleven
Speaker 1: forty called Black Bag. It was Steven Soderberg, Who's done.
Speaker 1: He started with sexalizing videotape years ago. Very heavy stuff,
Speaker 1: very quirky, plot twist, fascinating guy. The movie's great. I
Speaker 1: love that hour thirty three. I mean, you're in and
Speaker 1: out of the theater. It's fascinating, not a wasted scene.
Speaker 1: But as I was watching it, I was I was
Speaker 1: thinking as I walked out of the theater, is that
Speaker 1: you can tell how smart an actor is by the
Speaker 1: directors and the choices they make for movies. Bad dumb
Speaker 1: actors end up in bad films and make bad choices.
Speaker 1: Tom Hanks did not make a bad choice for like
Speaker 1: ten years.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I know Tom Hanks gets better scripts than the average guy.
Speaker 1: But you know, even a movie like Big, you know
Speaker 1: you're like smart actors choose smarter roles. And I think
Speaker 1: this is the ultimate test for Aaron Rodgers. Hear me
Speaker 1: out so the teams that want in Minnesota, Pittsburgh and
Speaker 1: New York. Pittsburgh's got the best overall roster. The best
Speaker 1: overall coach is probably in Minnesota. But here's something fascinating
Speaker 1: about the Steelers. So in five of the last seven years,
Speaker 1: and I think we both agree they draft and develop well,
Speaker 1: they got dudes. This this is a real roster. Five
Speaker 1: of the last seven years they've had it east a
Speaker 1: three game losing streak at minimum at the end of
Speaker 1: the year. And my belief is as the league has
Speaker 1: gotten offensively smarter and the culture has changed and defenses
Speaker 1: are limited, that Mike Tomlin is a raw raw coach,
Speaker 1: kind of a motivator. That's why such a good as
Speaker 1: an underdog coach. Is that the raw raw stuff, it doesn't,
Speaker 1: it doesn't land or stick by Christmas on. It just doesn't.
Speaker 1: Players have heard it, and that they're they're just not
Speaker 1: a sophisticated team. Offensively. They can't get the O line right,
Speaker 1: which Andy Reid, McVay, Shanahan, Gary Sean Payton, those guys
Speaker 1: within a year can figure. I mean, the Denver O
Speaker 1: line sucked. Peyton got there, it was top eight, you know,
Speaker 1: his first year and that. I think if Aaron chooses
Speaker 1: the Steelers, I think it's a big brand. It's a
Speaker 1: good roster. You now have two high maintenance receivers who
Speaker 1: want the ball. By the way, DK Metcalf's the most
Speaker 1: penalized receiver since he entered the league. Temperamental. You have
Speaker 1: an own line that can't figure out. They have no
Speaker 1: sensibility for it. He's sort of an outsider in a
Speaker 1: kind of a tough, blue collar city. He's an outsider.
Speaker 1: And if he chooses Pittsburgh, I really think it tells
Speaker 1: you a lot about Aaron. I mean, I'll tell you
Speaker 1: I would choose the Giants over Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh just lost
Speaker 1: their left tackle. They just lost Nagie Harris. It's like
Speaker 1: the Giants have an excellent left tackle an offensive coach,
Speaker 1: Aaron will have power. They have an elite weapon. And
Speaker 1: by the way, what they need is a running back.
Speaker 1: It's a great running back draft. It's hard to screw
Speaker 1: the running back. I mean, the Giants will take a
Speaker 1: running back somewhere early. So my take on Aaron is
Speaker 1: if he chooses the Steelers, he's passing on offensive coaches
Speaker 1: who clearly every rule advantage goes to that side, And
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by the choice he makes because I'm know
Speaker 1: you start hearing things a lot of people think he's
Speaker 1: going to Pittsburgh. If you just wanted to play one
Speaker 1: more year, where would you pick? And why?
Speaker 2: Well, I'd be begging are we factoring Minnesota in with
Speaker 2: these three? Or I would be begging Kevin O'Connell to
Speaker 2: let me be the starting quarter back? All right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And when I when I see some of these reports
Speaker 2: that you know he needs thirty forty million dollars, like
Speaker 2: guy's made four and fifty million dollars. This is probably
Speaker 2: going to be his last season? Is he going to
Speaker 2: go out on the embarrassment that was the Jets situation
Speaker 2: in these last couple of years. I to me, the
Speaker 2: Giants thing is, I can't get with you there. Now
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I think the Steeler situation is a
Speaker 2: little overrated. I mean, they just they happen to have
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson, who's I don't know, the most unique quarterback
Speaker 2: we've ever seen, and Joe Burrow, who went he's on
Speaker 2: might be the best quarterback in the league. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're not out doing those two teams. And then Cleveland
Speaker 2: just resigned one of the greatest pass rushers ever and
Speaker 2: for a weird organization that they are not easy to play.
Speaker 2: That that division's really really difficul And I'm with you
Speaker 2: on the Steelers. I thought that that DK Metcalf trade
Speaker 2: was insanity, Colin. When you when you don't have your
Speaker 2: quarterback to trade for DK Metcalf when down the stretch
Speaker 2: of the season. Obviously your offense had some issues, but
Speaker 2: Russell did not play well, your defense was falling apart.
Speaker 2: You are not in the business of giving a guy
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars guaranteed trading a second round pick.
Speaker 2: That's look what the Chiefs or Bills should do. Not
Speaker 2: a team that's barely getting in the playoffs and getting
Speaker 2: smoked the moment they get in. That was crazy. I
Speaker 2: thought that was the craziest move when you factor in
Speaker 2: money and a high draft pick. But I don't think
Speaker 2: the Steelers and the Giants are that good options. Like
Speaker 2: I see one the Giants I don't think would make
Speaker 2: the playoffs with them. I mean, the Jets were a
Speaker 2: muttered ar team, and I think the Steelers situation would
Speaker 2: probably have some parallels, might look a little better, but
Speaker 2: like the way this season nine to ten wins get
Speaker 2: blasted by the Ravens or Bills.
Speaker 1: And with.
Speaker 2: Point.
Speaker 1: Last year, to my point, the Steelers were an awful
Speaker 1: team down the stretch.
Speaker 2: I do think, and I would imagine. You know, Kevin O'Connell,
Speaker 2: I don't think he's ever worked with Aaron. They're just
Speaker 2: having long conversations because they go, are we confident that
Speaker 2: we could win the division and win playoff games with
Speaker 2: JJ McCarthy because they I'm telling you we've seen it.
Speaker 2: I know you know this, but like you could win
Speaker 2: just because this isn't the NBA when you just put
Speaker 2: a great roster like guaranteed to make the playoffs. In football,
Speaker 2: the cohesion and the quarterback play. Sam Donald threw thirty
Speaker 2: five touchdowns last year. JJ McCarthy in fifteen games that
Speaker 2: last year at Michigan throw twenty two. He's never played
Speaker 2: like that. They did not, that's not and and Kevin
Speaker 2: O'Connell clearly is much more like McVeigh than Shanahan. He
Speaker 2: likes to throw the ball. I mean he is, that's
Speaker 2: his you know, he wants to call thirty five forty
Speaker 2: passes a game, even when Sam Donald's getting smoked in
Speaker 2: the playoff games, like Kevin run the ball. He just
Speaker 2: kept calling pass plays, So i'd be begging Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 2: I think that roster. I would disagree with you on
Speaker 2: the Steelers. I think the Vikings have a better roster.
Speaker 2: Now that your draft, we'll see what happens. I mean,
Speaker 2: I thought they had an excellent free agency drafting or
Speaker 2: I mean signed a couple offensive linemen plug and play,
Speaker 2: a guard in a center, a couple of defensive linemen.
Speaker 2: I mean their defense overachieved because Flores is such an
Speaker 2: elite coordinator. Yeah, now, so they bring in a couple
Speaker 2: more defensive linemen. I would imagine they draft defense their
Speaker 2: offense stacked skill wise, so you know it'd be I mean,
Speaker 2: it'd be a little weird, right if Aaron's career literally
Speaker 2: paralleled the guy that always drove him nuts far off
Speaker 2: of going to the Jets, then the Vikings. But that division,
Speaker 2: I think the one thing right now on paper, wouldn't
Speaker 2: you say the NFC North is the best division in
Speaker 2: all of football? With the Bears looking vastly improved.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's the best division in terms of personnel.
Speaker 1: I think the AFC West is the best division in
Speaker 1: terms of coaching with Peyton, Pete, Andy and Harball. So
Speaker 1: those are the two best divisions. And I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a I don't think it's a coincidence.
Speaker 2: Well, I just.
Speaker 1: The South is such a huge college football region that
Speaker 1: both the NFC and the AFC South aren't very good.
Speaker 1: I've always surmised that college football is so big in
Speaker 1: that part of the country that you don't face the
Speaker 1: same level of pressure that you do on northern teams
Speaker 1: like New England, Boston Media, Philly Media, Baltimore Media. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean like cold Weather Pittsburgh. They live, they don't
Speaker 1: care about college football. They live for the NFL. These
Speaker 1: NFCAFC South teams, you're like, eh, we'll keep Todd Bowles again.
Speaker 1: If he coaches the Eagles, he'd be gone tomorrow.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is probably like a year ago,
Speaker 2: Maria has a close friend who's really successful, girl UCLA
Speaker 2: grad just crushed it. She's like thirty years old, she's
Speaker 2: got multiple properties, and she was telling me this. She
Speaker 2: had this acronym. I forget exactly what it was, but
Speaker 2: it basically described high maintenance friends and the moment you
Speaker 2: become a high maintenance friend in her life. She's got
Speaker 2: too much going on, she got a young baby, she's
Speaker 2: out on you. Yeah. If I would have told you
Speaker 2: four or five years ago that we'd be a week
Speaker 2: into free agency, and people like Russell Wilson Aaron Rodgers like, yeah,
Speaker 2: well we'll get back to you here a little bit.
Speaker 2: It's crazy how And I think both guys, if they reviewed,
Speaker 2: let's use Geno and Sam, are viewed as low maintenance,
Speaker 2: good guys. Everyone likes them, no problems. If both these
Speaker 2: guys were viewed as just normal humans, like a Drew
Speaker 2: Brees or I know he's like super high Carett, but
Speaker 2: I just mean like normal guys, I think they both
Speaker 2: would have been signed. Had been they would have had
Speaker 2: a bidding war for these guys, because statistically they're still solid.
Speaker 2: They're clearly not as good as they once were. But
Speaker 2: it's like the first question. And I've been in these meetings,
Speaker 2: not necessarily with these individual players, but players like this,
Speaker 2: like do we want to deal with this? Like do
Speaker 2: we want? And their stardom is now bigger than their
Speaker 2: talent that it's like, is this high maintenance worth worth
Speaker 2: the headache? Enough?
Speaker 1: Look at Dez Bryant disappeared, ob John disappeared. Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 1: Russell not really interested, I think, and I'll throw this
Speaker 1: at you. I love the NBA, but there's some high maintenance,
Speaker 1: you know, these guaranteed contracts. I think the NFL people,
Speaker 1: and I've had discussions with NFL people for my entire career.
Speaker 1: They often reference, Dude, that's an NBA, that's an NBA idea.
Speaker 1: They make fun of the NBA and how much players
Speaker 1: and employees control the entire organization. Embiid. Everybody's hostage to EMBIID.
Speaker 1: And I mean you've heard gms reference this before. Like
Speaker 1: there Aaron and Russell are getting into sort of like
Speaker 1: a little bit of NBA where you're like, this is
Speaker 1: a team sport, like this is about the group and
Speaker 1: the community not I mean when Aaron said, you know,
Speaker 1: there's that picture in Malibu where he's you know, he's
Speaker 1: got the pod pods on, and I'm thinking, every guy,
Speaker 1: every NFL GM is thinking, listen, just make an f
Speaker 1: and decision. Okay, Like you're not married, you don't have kids,
Speaker 1: you're not doing much, you're golfing, and you're reading Greek mythology.
Speaker 1: Like that to me, I listen. I've talked to two
Speaker 1: gms and they're like, you couldn't I'm not interested in Aaron,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, but he's he's still pretty good.
Speaker 1: And they're like that just eat. I mean Aaron Glenn
Speaker 1: basically just said we're just no, thank you, and Aaron
Speaker 1: was actually pretty good down the stretch. This isn't a
Speaker 1: shot at Aaron. It's what I'm hearing from executives in
Speaker 1: the league. It's like, no thanks.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look look at the Titans. Their new
Speaker 2: GM is from the Chiefs, so he's spent his whole
Speaker 2: time around Andy Veach Mahomes, Alex the guy kind of
Speaker 2: in this weird position who's like the president but he's
Speaker 2: also kind of got a scouting background, is a packer guy.
Speaker 2: They have no interest, even if they're going to take
Speaker 2: cam Ward, Like, you guys, get Aaron Rodgers, bring him
Speaker 2: to Nashville for a year, get a little buzz. As
Speaker 2: you're building this new stadium. You haven't heard a peep,
Speaker 2: you know. I was like, it's crazy, how think of
Speaker 2: the top quarterbacks in this in the league, Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2: The only maintenance they ever have to deal with is
Speaker 2: his family. It's not him like he is. They don't
Speaker 2: even think about him. Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Herbert Burrow.
Speaker 2: I mean, Burrow has kind of had to hold their
Speaker 2: feet to the fire just historically this organization. If you
Speaker 2: put Burrow in the Ravens or the Chiefs, he wouldn't
Speaker 2: be saying a peep. He's just scared that this this
Speaker 2: owner is going to be chief. Don't blame him. But
Speaker 2: I think the league, the star quarterbacks are just full
Speaker 2: of guys who are just you never the season ends
Speaker 2: and it's like, I don't know what Josh Allen's doing,
Speaker 2: is just doing? You had a bachelor party at the
Speaker 2: Tiger Woods thing in Orlando just with his buddies. And
Speaker 2: I think Aaron Rodgers and Russell they're different personalities, but
Speaker 2: I think they both check the same box of like
Speaker 2: I don't know if we have the energy and you're
Speaker 2: and you're not good enough anymore for us to overlook that,
Speaker 2: Because if you put Aaron Rodgers on Minnesota, you know,
Speaker 2: I pretty good dealing well. But I can also see
Speaker 2: it getting weird, like are you sure that you're comfortable
Speaker 2: around with him? With JJ in that situation. But I
Speaker 2: do think they're thinking long and hard, but these guys
Speaker 2: don't really have options, so they can just kind of
Speaker 2: wait it out and keep talking through it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it's a reality that there's there's
Speaker 1: there's The players now are richer sooner. I mean some
Speaker 1: of these guys now going forward, John, they'll come in
Speaker 1: multimillionaires out of college. So you're gonna see You're gonna
Speaker 1: see two things. Guys retire sooner, and guys have a
Speaker 1: little more leverage sooner. And and I think the fear
Speaker 1: on the end FL is we don't want to become
Speaker 1: pro basketball where basically the employees are are running the team,
Speaker 1: you know, like Kawhi showing up at four point thirty
Speaker 1: and saying, yeah, I'm not going to play tonight, Like no,
Speaker 1: we're not, We're not going there, and yeah, so where.
Speaker 2: The NFL benefits. I do think it could get much
Speaker 2: weirder in the offseason with the holdouts and the hold
Speaker 2: ends like that. That's probably is at the beginning of that.
Speaker 2: But in the sport of football, unlike like in basketball,
Speaker 2: these guys could play three hundred sixty five days a
Speaker 2: year if they want to, right pick up games. You
Speaker 2: can play whenever in football, the only time you can
Speaker 2: actually play a game is in the confines of the
Speaker 2: seventeen weeks. And that's the fun part. What Ray Lewis say,
Speaker 2: you pay me Monday through Saturday. Sundays are for free.
Speaker 2: The games are really the fun part for the players.
Speaker 2: That's the problem with the NBA. Turn on the TV.
Speaker 2: You never know who's gonna play. Even in the NFL,
Speaker 2: guy making forty fifty million dollars, he's still gonna want
Speaker 2: to play in the games, Laramie Tunzel. A lot of
Speaker 2: articles are coming out like, you know, he's kind of
Speaker 2: late to practice, doesn't always work hard. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: you don't know that if you just watch the TV,
Speaker 2: because you're like, he's a good players, so I want
Speaker 2: him on my team. So it's the NFL. They're weird.
Speaker 2: Stuff happens during the week when no one's paying attention
Speaker 2: that the games. It's like all the guys want to play.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was watching a clip of Jim Harbaugh
Speaker 1: and I had just had this discussion with Steve Kime
Speaker 1: about a week ago, two weeks ago, and I said,
Speaker 1: if I was ever a GM, because he owes jokes.
Speaker 1: He said, you're not a talk show host. You want
Speaker 1: to be a GM. And I'm like, you know, I
Speaker 1: like my job, but I would love to be a GM.
Speaker 1: You know, if I would have put thirty years into
Speaker 1: that instead of what I'm doing. Who knows, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't know. But I told him, I said I
Speaker 1: would overdraft the offensive line. And Harbaugh said this, and
Speaker 1: this is what Steve and I said. Jim put it
Speaker 1: more smartly. He said, there's only one unit in a
Speaker 1: football field that doesn't rely on any other unit, yet
Speaker 1: every other unit relies on it. And he said, it's
Speaker 1: offensive line. It makes your quarterback better, your running back's better,
Speaker 1: your tight end doesn't have to block as vigorously, your
Speaker 1: wide receivers have more time to get downfield. It keeps
Speaker 1: your defense off the field if you have a great
Speaker 1: offensive line. And it was one of those things where
Speaker 1: when you go back to drafting Joe Ault over a
Speaker 1: wide receiver, the Bears went wide receiver, and then this
Speaker 1: year had to spend a fortune on their offensive line
Speaker 1: instead of The Bears probably should have gone O line
Speaker 1: instead of going with Roma Dunze. But it is interesting
Speaker 1: that the more the NFL, you know, changes and becomes
Speaker 1: an offensive league. We pay so much attention to quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: But I and I made this pick the other day.
Speaker 1: I think the Chiefs are going to struggle, and I
Speaker 1: don't think they're going to win their division. I don't
Speaker 1: think in this draft class there's a starting left tackle
Speaker 1: good enough in their division to block Max Crosby or
Speaker 1: Khalil Mack or the kid number fifteen Oklahoma Bonito. But
Speaker 1: I do, and it's really interesting. I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: right now, the three or four teams I like in
Speaker 1: the league all have great old lions, all of them. Philadelphia, Detroit.
Speaker 1: I thought the Rams finally got their act together offensive line.
Speaker 1: I think Buffalo's last year was better than people thought.
Speaker 1: I thought Denver's was better than people thought. I think
Speaker 1: Kansas City, I think we've just baked it in, John.
Speaker 1: They're not going ten to one in close games next year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree there, but their offensive line was
Speaker 2: future this year on the on the edges, and they
Speaker 2: were able to well. I mean they were basically a
Speaker 2: sixteen and one team. They threw the last game of
Speaker 2: the season. So when it comes to coaching, when it
Speaker 2: comes to the quarterback play, most importantly, their defense is
Speaker 2: going to be good. So like part of the reason
Speaker 2: they were winning all these games because they could win
Speaker 2: nineteen to seventeen, they weren't allowing many points. That is
Speaker 2: not going to change now the Chargers in the Broncos,
Speaker 2: You and I have been saying this, anyone with common
Speaker 2: sense has been saying this. The worst their teams were
Speaker 2: going to be was last seas. They're both going to
Speaker 2: be better. So if either Hufunga or Greenlaw play, that
Speaker 2: defense is going to be improved. In Denver's defense was awesome.
Speaker 2: When I saw DK Metcalf ask for a trade, a
Speaker 2: lot of people that covered the NFL were like the Chargers,
Speaker 2: It's like, guys, do you think that Jim Harbaugh is
Speaker 2: going to trade a top whatever fifty pick and pay
Speaker 2: a third contract to this kind of out there wide receiver,
Speaker 2: though very talented, kind of the poor man's modern day
Speaker 2: Torell Owens type. It's different, but I mean I think
Speaker 2: physically they have some to dk Metcalf. Are you guys nuts?
Speaker 2: And what does he do? He goes signs Makai Becton
Speaker 2: and he's he's got a huge I see yesterday, he's
Speaker 2: got a huge smile on his face. Like, have you
Speaker 2: guys not followed Jim Harbaugh's career since Stanford? This they
Speaker 2: might draft a wide receiver this year in the third round.
Speaker 2: I would expect tight end d lineman running back like
Speaker 2: it's Naji Harris. When I was living in the Bay Area,
Speaker 2: Naji was his senior year, was one of the biggest
Speaker 2: recruits in the country. I think he won number one recruit.
Speaker 2: He was number one, and it was I need to
Speaker 2: go to Alabama, but Jim was recruiting him very hard.
Speaker 2: And I saw a clip that Jim at an Antioch.
Speaker 2: I think he went to the homecoming game. He announced
Speaker 2: their king and queen and so like that's who he's Listen,
Speaker 2: I'm not the biggest nause star running back. First round
Speaker 2: guy but he is a solid, runs downhill, physical guy.
Speaker 2: Like that's how Jim wants to play. Jim wants to
Speaker 2: play a lot like this version of the Chiefs and
Speaker 2: clearly Denver, I think Sean would like to be a
Speaker 2: little more explosive down the field. But like that, that
Speaker 2: division is going to be really physical. And same thing
Speaker 2: with the I mean, we know how Pete Carroll, why
Speaker 2: did he butt heads with Russell Wilson. Russell wanted to
Speaker 2: throw it fifty times a game. Pete wanted to throw
Speaker 2: at about twenty in play d and run the ball.
Speaker 2: So I think this defense is gonna or this divisions
Speaker 2: is gonna look a lot like each other. Now you know,
Speaker 2: if for she Rice is healthy, Xavier Worthy came on.
Speaker 2: I do think the Chiefs offense could get more explosive,
Speaker 2: and I would also guess that they draft are running back.
Speaker 2: I think all these teams in this division could draft
Speaker 2: running backs, and if two of the four of them
Speaker 2: become stars, whichever ones those guys go to, like the
Speaker 2: next Yamire Gibbs or whoever, Nick Chubb, you know, you
Speaker 2: name it, those second round running backs hit for one
Speaker 2: of these teams could be the difference. If all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, you tell me Denver it has a version
Speaker 2: of Nick Chubb or you know Alvin Kamara on their squad.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, well, why couldn't they win twelve or
Speaker 2: thirteen games? Same thing with the Chargers, and maybe this
Speaker 2: is the year the Chiefs win. Two years ago when
Speaker 2: they won the Super Bowl, I think they won eleven games.
Speaker 2: So the difference between eleven and fifteen is like a
Speaker 2: couple of missfield goals and a couple fumbles go your way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the yeah, it's it's I thought, I thought DeVante
Speaker 1: Adams was obviously a great move for the Rams, but
Speaker 1: I thought, Najee Harris, there were a couple of moves
Speaker 1: I loved. Offensively, I think Deebo Samuel to Cliff Kingsbury
Speaker 1: and Jaden is a sensational move for them at this point,
Speaker 1: he'll get tons of looks, and by the way, it
Speaker 1: will give Cliff another twelve offensive plays because Deebo's such
Speaker 1: a unique player. And then I also thought, I thought,
Speaker 1: I thought Najie Harris. I'm like, remember a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago when Kevin Dohnson wasn't going to start for
Speaker 1: the Steelers. McVeagh grabs him, and he literally is the
Speaker 1: highest rated guard in the league. Najie Harris with a
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh go line, everybody's like almost a semi bust. Watch
Speaker 1: him with hardball, watch him be really effective with hardball.
Speaker 1: I think of this all the time. Is I remember
Speaker 1: GM telling this years ago? He said, I used to
Speaker 1: love drafting Georgia guys when Mark Rick was there, great recruiter,
Speaker 1: didn't squeeze all the juice out of a player like
Speaker 1: you got. You know, these guys had a lot of upside.
Speaker 1: Nick Saban squeezes every ounce of talent out of guys.
Speaker 1: And one of the things I look at John when
Speaker 1: these offensive coaches like McVeigh will go and find wide receivers.
Speaker 1: He looked at DeVante and he thought jet Staff lab
Speaker 1: year was like third tier. He's like, DeVante's gonna make
Speaker 1: eighty catches for us. So I thought, yeah, I mean so,
Speaker 1: I do think when you see these offensive coaches they
Speaker 1: find some of these defensive cultures and they find players
Speaker 1: and go get me that.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you look at the Eagles last year,
Speaker 2: Mackai Becton. This year they trade for that former first
Speaker 2: round pick from the Densons because now listen, you're not
Speaker 2: going to hit on them all, but the power of
Speaker 2: having good coordinators and now so many of the offensive
Speaker 2: ones are also the head coach. But you see it
Speaker 2: a lot when the star offensive line coach or the
Speaker 2: star defensive line coach. It's like buying a cheap stock
Speaker 2: and the guy a year later turns into a twelve
Speaker 2: million dollar player. You can't afford, but you bought low
Speaker 2: like you profited from it. And I think the best
Speaker 2: teams always have that ability. I also think the Washington
Speaker 2: commanders with Debo and with Tunzel Tounsel not as much
Speaker 2: because he would get paid no matter what you got. Debo.
Speaker 2: He's in a contract years like Debo. If you ever
Speaker 2: want to make a even of that's right, two year,
Speaker 2: forty million dollar contract. Again, you got to slim down
Speaker 2: and give us all you got. And I think sometimes
Speaker 2: getting those guys motivated is a really big deal for
Speaker 2: these you know, it used to be a guy going
Speaker 2: to their third contract probably be like thirty four years old.
Speaker 2: These guys are a little younger now, you know, they're
Speaker 2: twenty nine, thirty years old sometimes on their third you
Speaker 2: know DK Metcalf, Yeah, they're not as old as you know,
Speaker 2: in previous generations. So sometimes these teams now with their
Speaker 2: cap space, these free aging classes after like the first
Speaker 2: ten names, most of them like the average fans like
Speaker 2: who's that guy? You can take advantage of it with
Speaker 2: traits overpriced guys on other teams at Adam Peters really
Speaker 2: did that with Tounzel and Deebo Samuel a ton of
Speaker 2: cap space, But I'm not going to buy all these
Speaker 2: players and pay premiums on guys that aren't quite worth
Speaker 2: it like the Packers. Listen. I understand Aaron Banks has
Speaker 2: been a starter for the forty nine ers, but to
Speaker 2: give him that much money to be your little guard
Speaker 2: fell a little desperate to me. As guard works. We
Speaker 2: have seen some questionable guard contracts in recent memory, and
Speaker 2: I understand offensive linemen more of a plug and play.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of money to pay a guy. You
Speaker 2: might be able to find stuff plug and play starter
Speaker 2: in like the third round, and the Packers historically have
Speaker 2: always been able to do it.
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, John Middlcoff form her NFL scout. He
Speaker 1: is newly married. Now have you guys done the honeymoon yet?
Speaker 2: We just came home, you know, we had work to
Speaker 2: do Colin, and we were in Nashville. We got there
Speaker 2: on Tuesday, and most of our people got there Wednesday,
Speaker 2: so it was basically a honeymoon in a marriage or wedding,
Speaker 2: you know, for five days. I don't quite have the
Speaker 2: drinking ability that in my younger days. But then we
Speaker 2: get home and you know, obviously free agency is kicking off.
Speaker 2: She's had changed to this luxury brokerage, so she's really busy,
Speaker 2: and I realized, like, you go go on the honeymoon
Speaker 2: necessarily to go hang out and party, just to kind
Speaker 2: of come down and nice. But so no, I think
Speaker 2: we're going to go to Costa Rica right before I think,
Speaker 2: you know that last week you and I have been
Speaker 2: talking about the last couple of years, that last week
Speaker 2: the preseason where the games are kind of over and
Speaker 2: there's nothing going on as college football. Her mom had
Speaker 2: won this trip. So we're going to Costa Rica, I think,
Speaker 2: for like six days that last week of August, right
Speaker 2: before the NFL season, So we got a little time.
Speaker 1: That's That's a great place because I've had multiple friends
Speaker 1: go there, all of them absolutely, all of them absolutely
Speaker 1: loved it. John as always, Buddy, congrats on everything in
Speaker 1: your life and uh what it cross today.
Speaker 2: Thanks Colin, see you buddy.
Speaker 1: The volume