1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. We are here right outside 2 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: the courthouse. The judge has just broken for lunch. And 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: what a day it has been in the courtroom so far. 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: Court kicked off this morning at nine thirty and it 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: was back at it with cell phone data and finally 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: we've gone through a labyrinth of information and we're finally 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: learning something. Not only that, we finally saw the snapchat 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: video that places Alex and murdog at the scene of 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: the murderer, just moments before the state says Maggie and 10 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: Paul were murdered. Let's take a listen to our cut one. 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: This is the snapchat audio just played in court behind me. Listen, please, okay, 12 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: I wish you could see it. We're trying to get 13 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: it so you can see it as well, just like 14 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: everybody in the courtroom and did. The way they've got 15 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: it set up are their little computer monitors for the 16 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: jars to look at. Then each side, the state and 17 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: the defense has the monitors and they just got working. 18 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: I saw today for the first time a monitor so 19 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: everyone out in the audience could see. And what that 20 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: was is Paul trying to take a video of a friend, 21 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Rogan Gibson aka Rogueie his dog. They were going to 22 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: take the dog to event, but they wanted to show 23 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: a picture of the dog's tail to event friend of theirs, 24 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: and they wanted him to send that video. So you 25 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: hear Paul telling the dog what to do, you hear 26 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: Maggie speaking, and then you hear a third adult male voice. 27 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: The state contends it is Alex Murdoch at the scene 28 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: of the crime, just minutes before evidence suggests that Paul 29 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: and Maggie were murdered. I mean, it's he Grace, this 30 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 31 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation in serious leven Hey, if I could 32 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: give the New York Control room to play that one 33 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: more time, because this is a bombshell for the state. Now, 34 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: how the defense is going to explain this. Are they 35 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: gonna say that's not Alex Murdoch when we've all heard 36 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch speaking. It's him. Let's listen to it one 37 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: more time, guys, take a listen, please. I'm looking at 38 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: a feed right now of what the jurars could see. 39 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: I could only see the back of Murdoch's head bobbing 40 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: up and down. But the jury just like you did. 41 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: Could see his facial expressions while that was being played. 42 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: Probably the last words that Maggie or Paul ever uttered again, 43 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: we're alive. Right outside the courthouse. We all came rushing 44 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: out for the lunch break with me an all star 45 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know right now 46 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: now that Bonbashell evidence was preceded by hours of laying 47 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: and it was tedious, painstaking, minutely done by the state, 48 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: and then the defense had their chance to cross examine 49 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: sell phone data and I was amazed. Let me first 50 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: go out to Giovanni Massucci. We're waiting on our senior 51 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: investigative reporter and Emerson to dart out of the courthouse. 52 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: Giovanni Massucci, senior digital forensic examiner for over thirty five years. Giovanni, 53 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Giovanni. We have laid 54 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: out as best we can, and we've scribbled all over 55 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: it and revised it over and over, a very intricate 56 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: list of all the movements, all the calls, all the 57 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: text messages, all the pictures, everything from eight forty pm 58 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: to ten thirty four that night. Giovanni, we can even 59 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: identify when Alex Murdog walks with a phone to his 60 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: Chevy Suburban at nine oh six, and we can see 61 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: Maggie's phone is moving at the same time, and at 62 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,239 Speaker 1: nine oh six he cranks his car up. We've got 63 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: about two hundred and eighty steps by Alex Murdog at 64 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: nine oo two to nine oh six. We believe that 65 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: the sheatings occurred around eight forty nine. He's right there 66 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: based on his own steps, based on his own Chevy 67 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: suburban cranking up. Giovanni Masci explained to us how do 68 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: they do that? And the rest of the folks that 69 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: were involved at I'm us supercars and excellent jobs as 70 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: far as obtaining the data from all the phones and 71 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: correlating it together and linking all the data. Um, it 72 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: was pretty amazing how what the iPhone records itself, the 73 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: type of data with the health answer and GPS motation 74 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: and so um, it's very intricate to how they laid 75 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: it out, and I think they did a great job 76 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: deat talent it Now. Having said that, um, you know 77 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: when they talked about the motion of the phone, okay, 78 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: um and the phone you know, ringing on the phone 79 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: call coming in the defense of staying you because that 80 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: shirt is possibly the organization change um and so yeah, 81 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: you've got the phone at the same time, right, you 82 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: have the dates come at the same time. Is it possible. 83 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: Is it possible that the motion can change the phone 84 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: if the phone is making filtered Is it possible? It 85 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: depends on how Magic phone was set up, because that 86 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: held that everything we are looking at text messages incoming, 87 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: read and not read. It's pretty amazing the way we 88 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: can see what's happening. I mean, Wendy Patrick joining me, 89 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: California prosecutor, author of Why Bad Looks So Good as 90 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: well as Red Flags. Wendy, I mean, this is such 91 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: a timeline in such intricate detail. I've never seen a 92 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: murder timeline like this. You have Paul making that snapchat 93 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: video and then shortly after that he gets a message, 94 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: a text message at eight forty nine from the friend Rogie. 95 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: It's never read. And according to my calculations, the murders 96 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: happened between about eight fifty when Maggie gets a text 97 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: that she opens and within you know, two minutes, it's 98 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: all over. Wendy Patrick. No more phone calls, more texts, 99 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: no more outgoing incoming, none more photos, nothing, It's done. 100 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: It's done. You know, I would say the theme of 101 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: this testimony is time is of the essence, and the 102 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: way you cuted it up is exactly what they're proving. Talking, texting, watching, 103 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: I mean, who knew your phone could do so many things? 104 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: Think about how much easier it is to establish a 105 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: timeline with this evidence than it would have been twenty 106 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: years ago, ten years ago. And here's the thing with 107 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: the way this testimony is unfolding, regarding the cross examination. 108 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: Jurors don't leave their common sense at the door. They're 109 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: not persuaded by what's possible. They're persuaded by proof, and 110 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: they're persuaded by proof that's corroborated by this very sound 111 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: technology that they're now learning about that's consistent with the 112 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: rest of the evidence. They've already heard time stories with me. 113 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: It's a grace I'm hearing that. Anne Emerson, senior investigative 114 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,599 Speaker 1: reporter WCIV ABC, is joining us outside the courthouse. Anne Emerson, 115 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: we were in their shoulder and shoulder listening and after 116 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: all of these calculations and entries and steps and camera 117 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: comes on, camera goes off, camera changes orientation. I mean, Anne, 118 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: did you know when you take your phone and you 119 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: move it from portrait like this to landscape like this 120 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: somewhere off in the lab. They can tell that you 121 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: did that. They can tell when you turn on your phone. 122 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: I mean, they can tell when you turn on your camera. 123 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: They can tell when you're walking. They can really try 124 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: everything you're doing. But based on hours of testimony, I 125 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: came down to this, Anne Emerson, do you have a 126 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: revision The murders occur between eight forty nine twenty seven 127 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: and eight forty nine thirty five. That's exactly what I'm 128 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: getting too. We've been doing the math. I've been doing 129 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: the math with you in there in the court. As 130 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: we were going along, there's this eight second window that 131 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: we're looking at from the time that Maggie read her 132 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: last text at eighty nine twenty seven to when the 133 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: last text is not read by Paul Murdoch, which is 134 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: eight forty nine thirty five. That is an eight second 135 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: window where we start seeing a very clear picture of 136 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: something going on. Now just four minutes before that, of course, 137 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: the snapchat video with the three voices on it, we 138 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: were there, Nancy at the end of that, right before 139 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: that break, we saw the faces of the jurors. We 140 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: saw how Alec Murdoch was reacting to this video and 141 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: these timelines as it got narrower and narrower. The whole 142 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: courtroom that was packed just leaned in to this part 143 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: of the testimony. You know, I'm thinking about what you 144 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: were saying in Emerson, and You're exactly right. I mean, 145 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: I can barely read all my notes because I get 146 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: one timeline and then in would come a camera coming 147 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: on and so I'd have to change it. And then 148 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: Paul's last Paul Murdog murder victim, last read text, and 149 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: then he quit reading them. But then after that, Maggie 150 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: gets a group text about her father in law's health. 151 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: She reads that, and that's where I'm getting the eight 152 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: forty nine twenty seven. She was still alive at eight 153 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: forty nine twenty seven, and by eight forty nine thirty five, 154 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: when more texts are coming in, I think from the 155 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: friend Rogan Gibson, no more phone calls, no more text, 156 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: no more reading text over and I heard something really scary. 157 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: I heard one of the lawyers bring up, is it possible? 158 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: Was she Maggie trying to take a picture, a photo 159 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: of the killer, and that happened right before the lunch break, 160 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: because her camera on her phone came open, but then 161 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: in one second it closed. Did you hear that? I 162 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: did hear that. Why was she trying to take a picture? Now? 163 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: Was she just grappling with her phone or was it 164 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: just one of those circumstances where the phone moved. We 165 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: don't know, And of course if there was a picture, 166 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: we would think we would know about it by now 167 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: of a perpetrator. But it was very compelling when we 168 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: heard that just at the break. Once again, I have 169 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: never in my life, Nancy, these these cliffhangers that we 170 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: get as we go to break, as we get a lunch, 171 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: as we end the day. It's just like you're ready 172 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: to turn the next page and they stop us. So 173 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: it's like we now we have to wait for an 174 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: hour before we find out exactly what that means. But 175 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: as far as the also, I wanted to throw in 176 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: one more thing into that timeline that we're looking at. 177 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: I wrote down that Paul's last outgoing message was also 178 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: eight forty eight oh five. So no matter how you 179 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: cut it, we're talking about seconds and minutes. We're not 180 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: talking about hours. We're not talking about a big timeline. 181 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: So if there is a way for the prosecution to 182 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: somehow link Alex voice with the third voice that we 183 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: heard on that snapchat video, that is going to be 184 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: very compelling evidence. And I just gotta say, I mean, 185 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: and I'm going to circle back to you on a 186 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: text that Maggie we now know what it said, sent 187 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: her friend as she was in route to the hunting 188 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: lodge at Moselle. Let me bring in Robert Crispin, private investigator, 189 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: former federal Task Force officer for the US Department of 190 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: Justice at Crispin Investigations dot com. Robert, thank you for 191 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: being with us. Robert, please come on. He gave his 192 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: story that he was never at the kennel, never, and 193 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: here he is popping up on audio. It's him, even 194 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 1: the context of what he's saying. He's talking to them 195 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: about this dog picture. I mean, it's clearly Maggie, Paul 196 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: and Alex Murdog the defendant. Yeah, this is a major 197 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: problem for them, any huge problem for the fence. And 198 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: the best part about all this is this is electronic evidence, 199 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: and electronic evidence cannot be altered. And this is what 200 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: you got out of your phone, and this chronicologically laid 201 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: out exactly the steps he took, where he was, and 202 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: everything else that went along all the way up until 203 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: the killings. He gave a statement that said he was sleeping. 204 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: That's just not possible because if you go back and 205 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: you look at the testimony from the detective Love, there's 206 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: a lot of steps in his phone starting at six 207 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: and seven o'clock and going on up. So he's not sleeping. Oh, 208 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: you're so smart. You're so smart. Put it connecting those dots, 209 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, hold on, guys, he just did something pretty brilliant. 210 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: Murderdock says he's asleep before the shootings, and then he 211 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: wakes up in the hunting lodge, goes straight to his 212 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: suburban and leaves. But we've gotten his suburban leaving at 213 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: nine oh six. But Crispin is correct. The phone shows. 214 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: We were all trying to figure out, why are we 215 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: talking about Alex murder dog steps, you know, an hour 216 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: before the shootings. Because of what Crispin just said, He's 217 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: not asleep, he's walking around. Go ahead, Robert, let me 218 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: explain to you also about automatic weapon fire as well 219 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: as a shotgun blast. It's deafening and on certain nights, 220 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: depending on where you are, automatic weapon fire can be 221 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: heard for miles away. We're talking a thousand yards from 222 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: the house down to the kennels. He was up. Clearly, 223 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: his app is showing that he's walking. He's not sleeping 224 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: like he said he was. The video puts him there. 225 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: Trust me, if he was at the house, that automatic 226 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: automatic weapon fire would have woke him up, and he 227 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: would have jumped up in two seconds. And at nine 228 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: o eight we've got Murdog texting Maggie quote going to 229 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: check on him. Mom, be right back. So at nine 230 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: oh eight, he's texting Maggie, who, by this point we 231 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: believe is dead. Hey, I'm going to check our mom. 232 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm wondering is he walking along with her 233 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: phone as he's texting her? Hey? Is that you and 234 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: Emerson jumping in? There seems to be a lot of 235 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: health data that we've really got to take a look at. 236 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: And one of the things is that Alex's phone, according 237 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: to these steps data, that phone is not moving from 238 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: eight o nine to nine o two pm. So there's 239 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: a question of, well, if the state carries on with 240 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: this thought process, then did he leave his phone back 241 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: at the house when he was supposedly on the snapchat 242 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: video if they do prove that that's Alex's voice on 243 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: the snapchat video. Now, But the other thing is is 244 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: that we've got to figure out some things about these steps, 245 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: about when Maggie's phone, her health data is going to 246 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: play a critical role in the defense. It looks like 247 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: because maggie steps do not marry with when Alec was 248 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: moving at that critical nine oz six window, when he's 249 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: turning on his car and driving off. We know that 250 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: because we've got that information coming out of his phone 251 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: in his car. Now we need to figure out what's 252 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: going on with Maggie's phone at that point. This is 253 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: how the defense is able to start weaving in a 254 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: theory that we are hearing again about a possible second shooter. 255 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: So I think that's going to be very important because 256 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: Maggie's phone, according to what the defense was asking the 257 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: expert on the stand, Lieutenant Dove, was not moving at 258 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: the same time as at nine oh six times. So 259 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: so Nancy, I think that's going to be very critical 260 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: to what we see as we as we hear you 261 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: on through this day. We got to find out how 262 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: that all works together. But at nine oh six, Maggie's 263 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: phone changes orientation. At nine oh six, her phone changes orientation. 264 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: In other words, someone moves it from portrait to landscape. 265 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: The phone is moving. At nine oh six nine o seven, 266 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: her phone camera activates for one second, indicating someone may 267 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: have been trying to unlo lock her phone. It didn't work. 268 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: So to me, that fit's hand in hand with him walking. 269 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: I say, you're saying, Maggie's phone is not walking. Is 270 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: that what you're saying. That's what I'm saying, Her steps 271 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: are walking. So how do we how do we get that? 272 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: Is it? Is it a matter of a vehicles involved 273 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: at this point? Um, It's sort of what I'm wondering 274 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: is if maybe a vehicle could be could be possibly 275 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: involved in the state's UH argument at that point. So 276 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to see. I want to just say 277 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: that those guns that the noise Nancy, just the lasting 278 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: on what what we just heard about the guns and 279 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: the noise UM. So far, we've heard that those suppressors 280 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: were never bought by Alec, which means the silencers, anything 281 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: that would have lessened that deafening noise from guns was 282 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: not purchased on the blackout rifles, So it certainly lends 283 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: into why didn't we hear these this gun fire loud? 284 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: As h A double l is Wendy Patrick. I want 285 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: to point out if all of those jurors have phones 286 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,479 Speaker 1: and they're listening to the testimony from the witness Dan, 287 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: and obviously they know that's the only evidence they're supposed 288 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: to consider, But you know, they know how these phones work. 289 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: They chuck their steps, they look at how how many 290 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: miles they've watched, They take pictures all the time, They 291 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: accidentally text the wrong people, they swipe wrong and they 292 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: get a different screen. There are things running in the 293 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: background that are slowing down to their programs. They have 294 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: knowledge that I hope they don't use in the deliberation room, 295 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: but you have to remember they're also going to be 296 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: able to use that knowledge to gauge the credibility of 297 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: the testimony they're hearing and the weight to afford this 298 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: is it possible questions that keep coming out, So they 299 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: are going to have their own expertise, if you will, 300 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: legally that they're going to be lending to this analysis. 301 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: Also joining US doctor Michelle Duprey. This is her Neck 302 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: of the Woods forensic pathologists, medical examiner and detective and 303 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: author on the homicide investigation Sealed Guide. Let me warn 304 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: the New York Control room, I'm trying to hear that 305 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: sound where we learn what Maggie texted her friend about 306 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: going out to the hunting lodge on Moselle. Doctor Michelle Dupree, 307 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: we know you and I have seen a lot of 308 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: domestic homicides. I've seen very few homicides where the perp 309 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: kills his wife and his child in this manner. That 310 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: said doctor Michelle Dupree. We both know that Maggie Murdog 311 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: had been living at Adesto Beach, at the beach House, 312 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: and she didn't like coming back and forth to Moselle, 313 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: that hunting lodge. But we were wondering why was she 314 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 1: there that night of all nights. So, doctor Michelle Dupree, 315 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: I want you to listen along with me about what 316 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: we just heard in the courtroom. Roll it please. It's 317 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: Jean seven, twenty twenty one. It's at seven to fifty 318 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: five twenty six pm. But this is a UTC time 319 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: so to go back to minus four hours to say 320 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: that to our time zone would be at three fifty 321 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: five twenty six pm, and that's three twenty five, three 322 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: fifty five in the afternoon. Correct, yes, yes, that's in 323 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: the afternoon. You should track four red text please. It says, 324 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 1: t Y, I'm waiting at doctor Alex wants me to 325 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: come home. Wants me to come home. I had to 326 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: leave door open at Edisto, but trust Mexicans to shut 327 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: and lock for me. His dad is back in hospital. 328 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: The last doctor claims no cancer, it's pneumonia. And there's 329 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: some emojis, and it says Alex. But I'm not sure 330 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: if that's going into the next thread of Okay, doctor 331 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: dupre There you have it. She writes her friend, Alex 332 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: wants me to come home. And we all know it 333 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: was to go and visit the father, the ailing father 334 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: in the hospital, mister Randolph. And the thing is, he 335 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: never went to go see mister Randolph. He never went 336 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: with her to go see mister Randolph. She got out 337 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: there and he left, reportedly to go see his mother 338 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: for what twenty minutes, then come back and whoa, my 339 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: wife is dead exactly Nancy. And I also remember that 340 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 1: Maggie texted a friend on the way and said, I 341 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: don't like this. I don't feel comfortable Alex is up 342 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: to something or something along those lines. And another thing, 343 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: if Alex was there during the timeframe that this electronic 344 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: data is showing, he says he didn't see if anyone 345 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: else around, Well, that's within minutes of when this happened, 346 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: and he saw no one and Emerson with us. You 347 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: were there when this went down, and the jury was 348 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: all Ears and Emerson absolutely, and I mean everybody's just 349 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, as one legal analyst said to me, um, 350 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: it feels like Maggie and Paul are talking to us 351 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: from the grave, telling us exactly what's going on. Um 352 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: As in the minutes and hours leading up to their deaths. 353 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: It's unbelievable how many details were getting off of these phones. 354 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: And one of the things that that that's really been 355 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: bothering me as well as I've been listening to it 356 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: is the text message that Alec purportedly sent to Maggie 357 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: on his way as he was about to leave to 358 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: go see his mom. Now he sends a text that says, 359 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to go see him him or mom like, 360 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: which isn't And as you said, like, why did why 361 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: did Maggie not go to the hospital to go see 362 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: the dad. Um, there's just a lot of confusion right there. 363 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: That defense is going to have to work double time 364 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: to clean up. I think, well that's starting. Well, yeah, 365 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: they're really They've got a lot to work with regarding 366 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: this because the fact that Maggie's phone was not moving 367 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: a lot along with his. That's gonna be a problem 368 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: for the state. But I've got a feeling their expert's 369 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: going to be able to come through. Guys, so much 370 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: happening in the courtroom. I want you to also listen 371 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: to our cut seven. Take a listen. At some point 372 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: in time, did you ever have another conversation with Alec 373 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: about making another blackout? I did? And when roughly was 374 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: that you recall? It would have been around April twenty eighteen. 375 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: April of twenty eighteen, all right, And what did Alec 376 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: tell you? What was your conversation with him about making 377 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: a third blackout? That Paul had lost or misplaced his 378 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: rifle and he wanted to replace it. Okay, And did 379 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: you ultimately make him a third blackout? I did? Did 380 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: this particular rifle? Did you put any optic on him? 381 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: I did know? All right? Did Alex say don't put 382 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: an optic on it because they already lost the other one. Yes, 383 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: those optics are fairly expensive. It can be es her. Okay, guys, 384 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: you were just hearing different stuff from the courtroom. It 385 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,479 Speaker 1: was about a blackout gun, a third blackout gun, and 386 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm actually glad you guys played that. Thank you, control room, 387 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: because the blackout guns have become a source of contention 388 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: in the courtroom, as we all know, and it was 389 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: really first revealed publicly by sled South Carolina law enforcement 390 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: in court that neither murder weapon has ever been recovered, 391 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: So these blackout guns have become a real bone of contention. 392 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: We know that in twenty sixteen, Murdoch buys two blackout guns, 393 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: which I'm gonna explain to you what they are for 394 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: his son's totaling almost nine thousand dollars. Then in twenty 395 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: eighteen he goes and gets another blackout I guess for himself. 396 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: To end, Emerson tell me about what is a blackout 397 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: gun and why has that become such a central focus 398 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: in the trial. And there's a couple of different things. 399 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: They're really tying it together quite well. On the state side, 400 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, we have two guns that are 401 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: bought for the boys that we're as you just said, now, 402 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: the Blackout rifle is an assault type rifle that can 403 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: shoot these semi automatic rounds. And this is the rifle 404 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: that killed Maggie. And we know this also because we 405 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: found three hundred Blackout shell casings right underneath her, I 406 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: mean they were right there. We also found shell casings 407 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: with the same markings at the range where the Murdochs 408 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: have property. We found the same shell casings near the 409 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: stoop of the house and that was all in testimony. 410 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: And the problem there is that they all have the 411 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: same tool markings they identify to the same gun. It's 412 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: like a fingerprint for a gun, the DNA of a gun. 413 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: So that is why this Blackout rifle keeps on getting 414 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: brought up. Now, what we understand is that Paul law 415 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: or it was stolen or something happened to this gun 416 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: that he received. So Alec goes and gets another gun. 417 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: And I have to bring up something that we talked 418 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: about yesterday. You were like and didn't you see you, Rambo, like, 419 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: don't you know how people carried two guns? I remember 420 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: you asking me about that. So I went back and 421 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: looked at the Blackout rifles, and what I learned about 422 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: the the gun that Paul had lost or stolen or 423 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: it went missing, this second Blackout rifle had a long 424 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: um sling on it in order to carry it. The 425 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: other one didn't. And it just brought home the fact 426 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: what you said earlier to me, Well, maybe maybe it 427 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: was a slung across the back. That's that is one 428 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: way that there could be two guns on one person. 429 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: And you see it in the picture Clear's day. You know, 430 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about that missing Blackout gun. For a 431 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: gun that costs, you know, forty five hundred dollars, I 432 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: believe I would file a police report if that was stolen, 433 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: but that never happened, leaving me to wonder was it 434 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: ever stolen? Hey, Robert Crispa, how would you define the 435 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: kind of gun we're talking about the gun that murdered 436 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: Paul Murdog A very violent weapon, a very violent shotgun 437 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: and a very powerful, impacting projectile that comes out and 438 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: just rips through your flesh and just annihilates your body. 439 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: Guys are talking about the blackout gun used to commit 440 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: at least one of the murderers. And now I'm going 441 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: to try that cuts seven about phone records. Phone records 442 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: regarding Alex murdog take a listen. Record twenty five shows 443 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: that the phone recorded seventy four steps start time of 444 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: June seventh, twenty twenty one at eight o five thirty 445 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: five pm, ending time of eight to nine fifty two pm. 446 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: Record twenty six shows the phone recorded two hundred and 447 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: eighty three steps, with a start time of June seventh, 448 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one nine two eighteen pm ending time nine 449 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: six forty seven pm. So, and I'll hand this report 450 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: back to you, But we see an hour gapproximately an 451 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: hour gap between those steps we needed at eight or 452 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: nine and when the steps start occur again at nine 453 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: two correct? Correct between those two times between eight or nine? No, sir, 454 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: I do not. And whose phone are we talking about him? 455 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: This phone was Alex Murdoch's phone. Okay. Robert Crispin sounds 456 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: to me like Murdoch, according to the State, left his 457 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: phone back at the hunting lodge or maybe even in 458 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: his vehicle is Chevy suburban while he went and committed 459 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: double murder. He did not take his phone there. His 460 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: phone went not dark, but no steps, no activity for 461 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: about an hour. So are you forgetting who we're dealing with. 462 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: We're dealing with a former prosecutor who has prosecuted the 463 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: these types of cases in the past. He has an 464 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: entire family of prosecutors that have prosecuted murders and violent crimes. 465 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: He's not stupid. He knows this was systematically laid out. 466 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: But what happened is he started to get tunnel vision, 467 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: and when you get tunnel vision, you start to lose 468 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: sight of the big picture. So yes, he knew, let's 469 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: put that phone down. He knew that these records are 470 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: going to eventually come into play. He's not stupid. One 471 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: thing I do want you to do, Nancy, is when 472 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: you go back, and I just want to bring this 473 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: up real quick. I want you to go back watch 474 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: when they play that video again with the snapchat video. 475 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: I want even the lay person, and I have interviewed 476 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of suspects in my career, the lay person. 477 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: I want you to look at Alex Murdoch when they're 478 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: playing that video, and I want you to watch his expression, 479 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: and I want you to watch and see how red 480 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: he gets. And then I want you to look over 481 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: his defense lawyer right to his left, and I want 482 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: you to look at the defense lawyer look at him 483 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: with open eyes like WHOA. I think he wanted to 484 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: tell him calm down. This is a very, very big 485 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: problem for the defense, and they're playing that. Watch him. 486 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: He's short of breath, he can't catch his breath. He's 487 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: turning red, he's shaking his head. Listen, we need the 488 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: rest of the facts to come out before we say 489 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: guilty or innocent. But I'm telling you right now, that 490 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: is a key moment in this trial, a key moment, 491 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: and I'm sure the jury looked over and saw that. 492 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: That is a huge problem for h I gotta tell 493 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: you something. We've been watching the Girars. We've been watching 494 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: the Girars, Robert, and it's exactly as you say. There's 495 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: one guy wearing wire framed glasses on the front row 496 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: on the far left, and I'm sure you've seen him. 497 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: He looks at Alex Murdog NonStop. It's not a benevolent look. 498 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: It's just a very analytical look, just looking at him. 499 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: It's all this evidence is pouring in and Wendy Patrick, 500 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: I can tell you this, all of this tedious, meticulous 501 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: discussion of this phone call at this time and the 502 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: phone turns off at that time and the phone walks 503 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: at this time. It may be all blending together in 504 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: everybody's mind. That's why I had to keep taking notes. 505 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: But when the state lays it out in a timeline 506 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: and you see Paul and Maggie responding to texts, moving around, 507 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: reading texts, taking videos, and then suddenly everything stops and 508 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: they never move again, you know that's the time of 509 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: the murder. No more text or read, no more text 510 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: or sent, no more phone calls, nothing. It's gonna be 511 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: laid out very clearly. When the state does closing statements, 512 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: we often say that that's a way we can prove 513 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: the case without the victims, because they testify through their 514 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: digital evidence, through their electronics, through their phone. Once they're dead. 515 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: Now you wonder whether or not manipulation is this kind 516 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: of sophistication to alibi, And that's what we're seeing. That's 517 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: what we've talked about in other other segments, is whether 518 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: or not movement after death has to do with fabrication 519 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: rather than memorialization. Is what the mom and the sun 520 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: were doing while they were alive, And that's why it's 521 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: so important that that timeline starts and stops and ends 522 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: exactly when it does. See what you're saying earlier so 523 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: important as far as what you're seeing in that courtroom 524 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: and what I'm seeing in that courtroom as well. I 525 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: was watching Alec, not just when we were listening to 526 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: the snapchat video, but when they were talking about his steps. 527 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,239 Speaker 1: He had that same look on his face, Nancy. It 528 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: was just this clenching of the jaw, he was chewing, 529 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: he had his glasses off, he was kind of kind 530 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: of moving back and forth a little bit, but it 531 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: was this extreme anxiety intension that you could actually read 532 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: on his face. So I was very curious to see 533 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: how some of these jurors that were looking intently at him, 534 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,280 Speaker 1: how they were handling that sort of anxiety and stress 535 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: that he was exhibiting. Because one thing that I did notice, 536 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: as well as just just taking notes on all of 537 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: the steps that were involved, just to jump over there 538 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: for a minute, the number two eighty three kept on 539 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: getting brought up, both in Maggie's steps and in no 540 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: in Alex steps and in Paul's steps. I saw twice 541 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: two eighty three steps were walked on that phone on 542 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: Alec and then Paul. I saw the same number now. 543 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: The first two eighty three with Alec was earlier in 544 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 1: the day and it took about ten minutes to walk. 545 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: The second two eighty three was from nine o two 546 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: to nine oh six. That was a four minute jaunt 547 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: wherever he and then two eighty three was also recorded 548 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: on Paul's phone. Um, I just want to know how 549 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: far the kennels are from the house, as far as subscope. 550 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: That's all I want to know. I have a feeling 551 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: I might be able to figure it out. Yeah, right, 552 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: And the US, it's sunny and windy here outside the courthouse. 553 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: The courtroom was kept at a very low temperature. There 554 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: was one girar I know you guys. Oh you can't 555 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: see the girars from the feed, but she's so called. 556 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: She brings the blanket in every day. And the reason 557 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: they're keeping the courtroom cold is they don't want the 558 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: girars to fall asleep during this very meticulous phone data. 559 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: And it's coming from basically a scientist, a technician that 560 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: is an expert in this, and he is definitely an expert. 561 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: So they're sitting up there and they don't want the 562 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: girars to get warm and doze off. So everybody's freezing 563 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: in the courtroom, and every so often the Jose says, 564 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: let's stand up, and everybody stands up and moves around 565 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: to keep those jurars focused on what's happening. But I 566 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: can tell you several of those girars have a gaze 567 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: right at Murdog throughout the entire thing. Time stories with 568 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: Nancy Greece. We are here right outside the courthouse. The 569 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: court kicked off this morning at nine thirty and it 570 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,479 Speaker 1: was back at it with cell phoned data. I want 571 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: you to take a listen to another specter that reared 572 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: its ugly head in the courtroom. Did Murdog delete calls 573 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: and messages? Take a listen to our cut six, and again, 574 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: every time there's a cover up of any sort, it 575 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: always comes out and it makes the person look even 576 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,959 Speaker 1: more in afarious than they did before. Take a listen 577 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: to our cut six. We see just simply a gap 578 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,919 Speaker 1: and see calls from May of twenty twenty one, and 579 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: then there's a couple of calls on June fourth of 580 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and then nothing until ten twenty five 581 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: pm the night of the murder. Is correct? The SR 582 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: correct is that can the database simply overriding itself explain 583 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: that gap. A gap like that would indicate that it 584 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: was actually removed from there. How can those calls be removed? 585 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: To create such a gap. For a call to be removed, 586 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: you can go in and very easily go to your 587 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: call out if you chose to, and you can swipe it. 588 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: If you move it to the left that number, it'll 589 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: pop up red on the right hand side and say delete. 590 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: And if you choose to delete that call, you could 591 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: do that same way you could with text messaging, voice smeils, 592 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: other things that you have access to user access to. 593 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: Is there any way other than that what you just 594 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: described that you're aware of that could any process that 595 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: could explain that gap in call records on out to 596 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: his phone? No, sir, let's go back to senior digital 597 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: forensic examiner Giovanni Massucci. Giovanni interpret for us. Yeah, so 598 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: it's definitely very possible that he could have deleted data, 599 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: not an issue, very easy to do it. And the examiner, 600 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: the expert on the stand for the prostitution, is it 601 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,359 Speaker 1: possible that he could have picked up delete? It isn't 602 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,359 Speaker 1: possible with the tools that they were utilized. The sum right. Two. 603 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: It reads a data that was extracted using them the 604 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: grazing tool to unlock the phone. Absolutely, and so with 605 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: the fast intraction he could have got deleted data. Now 606 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: there's no rhyme or reason how gets deleted once the 607 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: user of the phone delete the data, because it's a 608 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: short memory that's on the phone, and so and every 609 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: time the phone is used, which is vold of data, 610 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: it can be overridden. Okay, so they weren't able to 611 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,240 Speaker 1: do a physical attraction where you could get more data 612 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: that's been deleted, but the possibilities did exist for them 613 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: to absolutely get deleted data. The question is we need 614 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: to hear him stay our prostitution expert say that he 615 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: acquired deleted data. And so I'm curious if they're going 616 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: to bring any of that up as a trial goes on. 617 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: I'm really curious to see where they are on that point, 618 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,399 Speaker 1: because that's one of the things that I wrote down, 619 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: is like worst deleted data that they try to get 620 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: the deleted data? Was there any deleted data? You know, 621 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: how difficult is it to retrieve deleted data? Giovanni? It's 622 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: not that difficult if now it depends on them making 623 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: model phone you know, wasn't iPhone. I wasn't. I didn't 624 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: see words the model, But it also depends on the 625 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: iOS and what the schools can actually recover for that 626 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: iOS making model. They had Cellbright Celebrate as a standard 627 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: industry standard for forensic examiner. They used magnet Actium, another 628 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: standard pool in the industry. They used great Key for Unlockey. 629 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: These are all standards industry pools that they utilize. So 630 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: again it breaks down to, you know, what was left 631 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: on that phone, what residue my other pushing becomes. Did 632 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: did Alex add backup any backup to I clouds? We 633 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: haven't heard anything about ice clouds for any of the 634 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,760 Speaker 1: victim and any of the phones that were analyzed. I'd 635 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: like to know if they were able to obtain any 636 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: backup data that it was put on ice clouds, So 637 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,879 Speaker 1: any you know, So these are things that I'm very 638 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: curious to hear. I am wondering, are we going to 639 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: get that lost data or delay data? Will we hear that? 640 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not hearing that right now. That expert 641 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: seems to think unless the defense has something up their sleeve. 642 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: They're saying that once you swipe across that that information 643 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: about the lost call. That call is deleted, the information 644 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: other information on the phone data on that phone. We 645 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: haven't heard if they've been able to extract any deleted 646 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: data yet, but I will tell you that the issue 647 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: here that I'm sure the defense is going to be 648 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: bringing up is that they did not get Alex's phone 649 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: until September. That's three months later when they started working 650 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: with Alex's phone. And also to throw in that timeline, 651 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: that snapchat video that we keep on talking about that 652 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: we saw today on Paul's phone that is going to 653 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: be so critical, that did not get unlocked on Paul's 654 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: phone until March, nine months after these murders. That's when 655 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: that was extracting from that phone. So there has been 656 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: a delay to be able to get some of this information. 657 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: Now as far as Paul's phone, of course, we don't 658 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: think it's been manipulated. Alex's phone, yes, huge question. May 659 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: thirty at twenty twenty one, and then to June fourth, 660 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: and then June seventh, So June seventh, of course, being 661 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 1: the data of the double murders. We have these deleted 662 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: phone calls that the State brought up earlier today, where 663 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: are they as far as the calls go. I think 664 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: I heard from the expert that those calls were gone. 665 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: But the data, the data, we got to find out 666 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: that there's going to be data that they can pull out. 667 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: They seem to be able to do a lot dancy too. 668 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: Withthy Patrick. It never looks good when you're trying to 669 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: get rid or delete evidence. Withthy Patrick, when the cover 670 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,319 Speaker 1: up becomes evidence of the crime, as deleting evidence and 671 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: deleting phone calls, it really illustrates as a practical matter 672 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: why behavior of the defendant after a murder is sometimes 673 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: even more important. That's why the jurors are looking so 674 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: intently at mister Murdoch. They from Paul and Maggie on 675 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 1: the tape. They know what their their movements were before 676 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: the murder. But if you don't have or if you 677 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: have any conclusive evidence digitally, they're going to look emotionally 678 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: and try to determine how would someone act after they 679 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: just killed their spouse and son, and whether or not 680 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: those movements are consistent, because sometimes we just don't have 681 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: all the digital evidence, even in this day and age 682 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: that we wish we could have. Doctor Michel Duprez, I 683 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: was just going to ask you about that, Doctor Dupree. 684 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: Counter Measures, or what we call measures, attempts to cover 685 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: up a crime, to counter the evidence. Doctor Michelle Dupree, 686 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: we're talking about lack of evidence, but I mean, to me, 687 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: it's laid out minute by minute, murder by the minute, 688 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: you have eight forty eight, eight forty seven, eight forty six. 689 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: You have him walking to his car at the same 690 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: time he's calling Maggie. I'm texting her, Hey, I'm gonna 691 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: go check our mom. If he's still there at home, 692 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 1: he should have heard those shot gun blasts and that 693 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: blackout gun blast. I mean, I think this is a 694 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: lot of evidence, doctor Dupree, exactly. I agree with you, Nancy, 695 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: And we keep hearing about circumstantial evidence. I love circumstantial evidence. 696 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,800 Speaker 1: Circumstantial evidence is physical evidence. Physical evidence does not lie. 697 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,240 Speaker 1: So all of these things, these discrepancies, as we said before, 698 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: they're forensic countermeasures. It's someone who is intentionally trying to 699 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: cover up their actions. And to me, that's a very 700 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: guilty scenario. Well statement, yet, Okay, go ahead and tell 701 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: me about that that. I want to circle back to. 702 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: Did Maggie pick up her own murder weapon? Go ahead, 703 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: and well, I was just gonna say, I mean, well, 704 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: the question now is um okay. So we heard from 705 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: Alec earlier on about the statements he gave to law enforcement, right, 706 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: and we heard that he was asleep and then he 707 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: went to go see his mom and that he just 708 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: called Maggie. Well, there's a third statement. We've been told 709 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: that he made a third statement to law enforcement. I'm 710 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,319 Speaker 1: wondering when they're going to introduce that. And does does 711 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: this video play a role in that? Was it a 712 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: late statement that he gave to law enforcement. I have 713 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 1: a lot of questions about how he handles any conversations 714 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: with police once his snapchot video surface. We're all aware 715 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: of it, he's aware of it. How does that fit 716 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: into his timeline? Did he try and move things around? 717 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: I think that's going to be very interesting. Guys. I 718 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our cut three. 719 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 1: Did Maggie Murdoch actually go and pick up for her 720 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: husband's convenience her own murder weapon? Listen? Did you ultimately 721 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: provide that weapon? I did? All right, We'll tell me 722 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 1: how you provided that. Didall pick it up or does 723 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: somebody else pick it up? He did not when I 724 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: let him know who was ready. He said he was unavailable, 725 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: and Maggie would come pick it up. Okay, and is 726 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: that what happened? It is all right, And so tell 727 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: me about that. Tell me tell about your interaction with 728 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: Maggie when she picked that weapon up. She came to town, 729 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 1: we met, did some paperwork and handing me a check, 730 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: drove back to handon and you gave the lab yes, 731 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,360 Speaker 1: leave ye. She would have completed the forty four seventy 732 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: three with me, all right. So you made three blackouts 733 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: excluding the optic roughly in the same configuration, Maggie pick 734 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,839 Speaker 1: up that thirdswer the irony, did Maggie Murdog actually unknowingly 735 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 1: go and pick up for her husband her own murder 736 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: weapon that's floating around the courtroom. As well as what 737 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 1: we can reveal an our cut four, This goes back 738 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: to did someone the question did someone try to use 739 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: facial recognition to open up Maggie's cell phone or was 740 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: she trying to take a picture off her killer Take 741 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut four. So the camera's off 742 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: for one second. In your opinion, what does that tell 743 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,720 Speaker 1: you is happening on this phone? It appears the phone's 744 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: being moved, and the camera's activating in the background to 745 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,360 Speaker 1: see if it would recognize somebody's face that would unlock it. 746 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,799 Speaker 1: So the phone is attempting to face onlocks. Correct, Yes, sir, 747 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: that's what it appears. But you're just testified that after 748 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: eighty nine thirty one the phone never unlocked. Correct. Correct. 749 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,839 Speaker 1: If that camera and see Maggie Murdoll's face, what would 750 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: you expect to happen. I would expect for it to unlock. 751 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,359 Speaker 1: Let's keep going, and this is at time five thirty two. 752 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: What do you see there, sir? It shows the end 753 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,480 Speaker 1: time for orientation portrait, which means it was ending in 754 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: that orientation. So again, at that time, would it be 755 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: your opinion that phone was holding somebody's hand, Yes, sir. 756 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,759 Speaker 1: To Robert Crispin, it brings up, It causures up the 757 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: horrible image that Maggie may have been trying to take 758 00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:01,880 Speaker 1: a quick photo of Paul's killer before she herself was murdered, 759 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:08,280 Speaker 1: or that someone was using that phone to actually open 760 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,800 Speaker 1: the phone up by putting it up to her face, 761 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: but it would not unlock. Robert Crispin, I don't buy 762 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,399 Speaker 1: the she was getting ready to take a photo of 763 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 1: her killer. I think it's more to the fact that 764 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 1: the phone was in the hand and they tried to 765 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: FaceTime or not FaceTime, but do the facial recognition to 766 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: open the phone, and because it happened so quick and 767 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: things were flowing so much, he stopped. But let me 768 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: go back just a little bit, and let's go back 769 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,880 Speaker 1: to day one and two of this trial. And you know, 770 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,920 Speaker 1: we were talking about motive, and I know we were 771 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 1: talking about the homicide, but let's go back to the 772 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: motive for just a minute. Do you remember what they 773 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: talked about when the detective said that they were doing 774 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: the trash and they were going through the trash. Do 775 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: you remember that. Do you remember one of the items 776 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:56,360 Speaker 1: specifically that the detective said that he removed from the trash? 777 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 1: Where was that receipt from? Remember the Gucci receipt for 778 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: twelve something my dollars? Yes? Do you remember them talking 779 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,439 Speaker 1: about them? So now let's go back. Let's talk about 780 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: some deleted phone calls. In a case like this that 781 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 1: has so many twists and turns in so much craziness, 782 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,360 Speaker 1: you know as much as I do from being a 783 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,240 Speaker 1: prosecutor and a former cop, that it just doesn't stop 784 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 1: don't be surprised if somebody comes forward and says that 785 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: she was his mitress. I'm not saying that's what's going on, 786 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: but that clearly talks about or explains some deleted phone calls. 787 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,800 Speaker 1: It really does, you know. I'm thinking about that as well. 788 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:42,640 Speaker 1: And every time they defense conjures up a happy marriage, 789 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,719 Speaker 1: how wonderful their life was. I got back to what 790 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,839 Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch said yesterday. We heard him say when he 791 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: was asked, how is your marriage? He goes well, as 792 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:56,320 Speaker 1: good as it could be. Rumors of mistresses and more 793 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: have been floating around the courthouse since I got here, 794 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:07,239 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it's true. So far, no mistress, 795 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: no hooker, no girlfriend, no sweetheart has come into that courtroom. 796 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,440 Speaker 1: And until they come into that courtroom, in my mind, 797 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:22,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. All that matters. It's what this jury hears. 798 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: And people have come up and told me, oh, he 799 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,319 Speaker 1: did this and he dated her, and that doesn't mean 800 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,240 Speaker 1: the hill of beans unless it comes in in front 801 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,760 Speaker 1: of the jury. Otherwise it's just gossip. It's just gossip 802 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,799 Speaker 1: at the local restaurant. It means nothing until it can 803 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,320 Speaker 1: be But one think that the prosecution HAPs on asking 804 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,880 Speaker 1: us to listen to They keep on asking us to 805 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,720 Speaker 1: listen to the fact of the stuff that perhaps Alec 806 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 1: doesn't tell us or we don't hear from him. And 807 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 1: in that statement is very telling as well, because you 808 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: hear a lot of language, and I know you've got 809 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: some fabulous behavioral psychologist on board too. They can talk 810 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 1: about this, but you know, hear about this wonderful marriage, 811 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,719 Speaker 1: but you don't hear the word love. And you don't 812 00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: hear the word love about Maggie when he's talking and 813 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,000 Speaker 1: crying about her. You don't hear love the word love 814 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,040 Speaker 1: when he's talking about Paul, And that just struck me 815 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,759 Speaker 1: as odd when you're going through several interviews more that 816 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,200 Speaker 1: we've listened to him talk about you know, what happened 817 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: that night for I think close to an hour now 818 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: in the two interviews combined, and we never hear the 819 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,399 Speaker 1: word love, not once. So that's something that I've sort 820 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 1: of listened to in my like Layman's psychological profile of 821 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,319 Speaker 1: what's going on, you know, and and her son want 822 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: to I want to follow up on what you just said. 823 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: When people ask me, oh, how are the twins or 824 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 1: how's David, it's really simple. They're my whole world. And 825 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:50,280 Speaker 1: I've been wondering why Alex Murdog never displayed that about 826 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,640 Speaker 1: either Paul nor Maggie. But I talked it off to 827 00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:58,919 Speaker 1: him not being emotional or effusive about his marriage. I mean, 828 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,520 Speaker 1: what do you make of that. Let's go to Robert Crispin. Okay, Crispin, 829 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: you probably don't gush about the love of your life 830 00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,719 Speaker 1: as much as she may wish. But where's the love 831 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake? Well, clearly these detectives saw that. These 832 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: are trained, seasoned investigators, homicide investigators. Trust me, they're not 833 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,399 Speaker 1: saying it out loud, but every single one of those 834 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,000 Speaker 1: people sitting in that car, and I tell you I've 835 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 1: been there, I've been in no seats, and I've listened. 836 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,680 Speaker 1: There is no love here. And who goes and stays 837 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,279 Speaker 1: for an entire summer at their ocean house and your 838 00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: husband stays at the ranch house. That just doesn't happen 839 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,840 Speaker 1: in a marriage of true love. You miss your spouse, 840 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,080 Speaker 1: you need to be together. We go ahead, doctor did Well, 841 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,440 Speaker 1: there's something that really hasn't come up, and that is 842 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,359 Speaker 1: Maggie actually did work at the law firm as a 843 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,400 Speaker 1: bookkeeper at least occasionally. Now, what does that conjure up? 844 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,480 Speaker 1: She may have actually found where some of these funds 845 00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,200 Speaker 1: were being mishandled, and she may have talked to Alex 846 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,160 Speaker 1: about that. That would certainly be another motive. You know, 847 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 1: doctor Dupree, when I was out here many many months 848 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,600 Speaker 1: ago and you and I were together investigating the Mallory 849 00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: Beach homicide by a drunk boating because of Paul Murdog, 850 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,960 Speaker 1: that is exactly what was being discussed way back then, 851 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,000 Speaker 1: that Maggie got wind of what was happening, and she 852 00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,720 Speaker 1: was consulting divorce attorneys and then all of a sudden 853 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 1: she ends up dead. Guys, For those of you just 854 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,200 Speaker 1: joining us here at Fox Nations Series six, sem I 855 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,560 Speaker 1: want you to listen to a bombshell that just went down. 856 00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:41,920 Speaker 1: It's our cut one. It's a snapchat video son Paul 857 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,480 Speaker 1: Murdog took and the kennel there at Moselle Hunting Lodge, 858 00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,879 Speaker 1: and you can clearly hear in the background his mother 859 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,799 Speaker 1: Maggie soon to be murdered, and who we believed to 860 00:53:52,800 --> 00:54:08,960 Speaker 1: be Alex Murdag at the murder scene. Take a listen, please, 861 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,920 Speaker 1: you can see Alex Murdock during that and getting red, 862 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,120 Speaker 1: shaking his head back and forth. There were other times 863 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,080 Speaker 1: in testimony today that even from where I sat and 864 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,440 Speaker 1: you could tell he was agitated and moving around in 865 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: his seat. I want to go back to that bombshell 866 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 1: that happened in the court when we've been waiting for it. 867 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,680 Speaker 1: Would you see Alex Murdock. Would you hear Alex Murdog? 868 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,920 Speaker 1: We heard him loud and clear, An Emerson. Now, what's 869 00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,480 Speaker 1: the defense gonna say that wasn't him. Well, we didn't 870 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,640 Speaker 1: hear that, but we definitely heard. There is a We're 871 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,279 Speaker 1: expecting another witness to take the stand, and that's the 872 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:08,880 Speaker 1: person who received that snapchat. I mean, if certainly we'll 873 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,000 Speaker 1: have an impact. I think Rogan Gibson. We think we're 874 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,960 Speaker 1: going to be hearing from him shortly to get called 875 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,200 Speaker 1: up for the state. The receiver of that snapchat. Now 876 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,960 Speaker 1: the snapchat, what you hear is them talking about something 877 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,840 Speaker 1: that that happened to the dog's tail. I mean, you 878 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,120 Speaker 1: see this tail and it's all chewed up, and you 879 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,160 Speaker 1: hear Maggie in the background say something to the effect of, oh, 880 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,080 Speaker 1: it's a guinea being like a kinney hen But then 881 00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,319 Speaker 1: you have two seat mail voices, one which appears to 882 00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,000 Speaker 1: be holding onto the tail, which would be Paul, and 883 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,120 Speaker 1: then another voice which seemed to be a little bit 884 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,439 Speaker 1: further away. And the first one goes, it's a chicken. 885 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:45,880 Speaker 1: I think it was Paul, and then the second one 886 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,719 Speaker 1: goes chicken. So you hear this going back and forth 887 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,600 Speaker 1: a little bit, and you can hear the difference of 888 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,080 Speaker 1: where those voices are, so it feels very obvious. The 889 00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,080 Speaker 1: only place they've got to go is to argue that 890 00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,560 Speaker 1: that is not Alex Murdock. And if it's not him, 891 00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,279 Speaker 1: then who the hey is it? We wait as the 892 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,160 Speaker 1: evidence unfolds. Goodbye friend,