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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Breaking news tonight, did Idaho sleigh suspect Brian Coburger actually

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Speaker 2: wear plastic surgical gloves in the grocery store for weeks

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Speaker 2: after the quadruple murders to avoid leaving a trail of

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Speaker 2: evidence and a Coburger cell phone pings tracked along with

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Speaker 2: the victims for weeks before the murders. This as the

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Speaker 2: victim's former roommate breaks her silence to reveal a final

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Speaker 2: text to slave victor Maddie Mogan in an eerie premonition.

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Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: He texted, like, our group of friends and I just

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Speaker 3: had said, has anyone heard from Maddie? And I remember

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Speaker 3: like my last text message to her was like are

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Speaker 3: you okay? And I feel like, right then and there,

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Speaker 3: I kind of just knew that something was wrong.

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Speaker 2: That emotional sound of the former roommate from our friends

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Speaker 2: at kxly you were hearing Ashlyn Couch as she desperately

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Speaker 2: tried to reach Mattie Mogan, having no idea what had happened. Again,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. A lot happening in

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Speaker 2: the Brian Coburger case joining me an All Star panel

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Speaker 2: to make sense of what we know right now, but

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Speaker 2: first listen to this.

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Speaker 4: Ashlyn Couch transferred her lease at eleven twenty two King

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Speaker 4: Road to Xander Kernodle just six months before Kernodle, Ethan

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Speaker 4: Shape and Madison Mogan and Kaylegan's office were slain in

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Speaker 4: the home. Couch remembers getting an alert from the university

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Speaker 4: and immediately reaching out to friends still in Moscow. Couch's

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Speaker 4: last text to Mogan before learning of her death was

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Speaker 4: are you okay? Couch followed up in a group chat

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Speaker 4: with friends. Has anyone heard from Mattie? Couch says, the

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Speaker 4: thought that the murders could have happened earlier is unsettling.

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Speaker 4: That you never know how long someone is watching your house.

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Speaker 2: Wow, again, you are hearing from k xl Y. That

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Speaker 2: was Ashlyn Couch speaking, trying again desperately to get in

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Speaker 2: touch with we now know murder vic to Matti Mogan

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Speaker 2: with me at All Star Panels straight out to Davemack,

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Speaker 2: Crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter, Dave explained to me the

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Speaker 2: time sequence as to what we're hearing from Ashlyn Couch,

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Speaker 2: the former roommate there at King Road.

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Speaker 4: Well, Ashland was talking about how six months before this happened,

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Speaker 4: she actually was moving and so Xana Karnodle took over

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Speaker 4: her part of the lease on the King Road home,

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Speaker 4: got her room, but Ashland was still in contact with

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Speaker 4: her friends from there. And so during that time period

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Speaker 4: when the murders happened, an alert from the college went

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Speaker 4: out and said we've had a homicide near campus. And

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Speaker 4: immediately Ashlyn Couch thought of her friends in the King

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Speaker 4: Road house. That's why she was reaching out right away.

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Speaker 2: Guys, this young girl, Ashlyn Couch now speaking, will she

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Speaker 2: be a witness?

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Speaker 1: What can she.

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Speaker 2: Tell us anything about the King wrote address at all?

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Speaker 2: And you know, to Chris mcdonaugh, a director of the

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Speaker 2: Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective with over three hundred

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Speaker 2: homicides under his belt, and host of the popular YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel The Interview Room, you know, Chris mcdonna. The issue here,

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Speaker 2: as far as ashen Couch goes, the fact that she

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Speaker 2: had a premonition that's probably not going to be admissible

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Speaker 2: at trial, The fact that she tried desperately to reach

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Speaker 2: anybody the King wrote address, specifically trying to find out

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Speaker 2: what was happening with Mattie Mogan. When Maddie would not

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Speaker 2: respond that may not come into evidence. However, her knowledge

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Speaker 2: of the home, and I found it very curious what

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Speaker 2: she said when she said, you never know how long

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Speaker 2: somebody has been watching your house?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy, that that statement in of itself is fascinating.

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Speaker 5: I mean the fact that she has a premonition as well,

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Speaker 5: you know, post the homicides here, that you know, she's

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Speaker 5: thinking when I was there, could somebody have been watching

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Speaker 5: me and or obviously her roommates there. So that itself,

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Speaker 5: I think the authorities, you know, need to dig into that,

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Speaker 5: if they haven't already. That's pretty telling.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Hand in hand with what you were talking about is

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Speaker 2: potential evidence. And we saw it in the Alex Murdog

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Speaker 2: trial where Murdog's phone was traveling along with his wife,

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Speaker 2: Maggie Murdog, before her phone was thrown unceremoniously out of

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Speaker 2: his vehicle the night of the murders. Now reports that

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Speaker 2: we're going to hear evidence that his phone, Brian Cooberger,

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Speaker 2: was spotted in cell phone pings in and around where

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Speaker 2: the victims were in the weeks leading up to the

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Speaker 2: murders to Mark Tate joining me, high profile lawyer out

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Speaker 2: of Savannah, partner with the Tate Law Group.

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Speaker 1: Mark, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 6: It's my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: I know that it has been stated over and over now,

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Speaker 2: contrary to what was first put out there by some

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Speaker 2: of the victims' family members, that Coburger did not specifically stalk.

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Speaker 1: Any of the victims.

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Speaker 2: But what do you make about that, of that potential

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Speaker 2: evidence that where they went on several occasions his cell

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Speaker 2: phone would ping as well.

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Speaker 1: You think that's just a coincidence, Mark Tate, Well it

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Speaker 1: may be.

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Speaker 6: You remember he went to school just eight miles away,

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Speaker 6: And if I was defending this case, I would say,

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Speaker 6: you know, if you're going to use cell phone pings

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Speaker 6: to prosecute him, then you have to look into the

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Speaker 6: fact that he has put forth an acceptably under Idaho law,

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Speaker 6: that he has an alibi, which is he has to

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Speaker 6: state a specific place where he was, and the witnesses

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Speaker 6: who will put him there. The witnesses here are the

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Speaker 6: cell phone pings. So the problem that we have here

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Speaker 6: is that the prosecution is going to use cell phone

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Speaker 6: pings to put him stalking these victims. Then they're going

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Speaker 6: to have to deal with the fact that he says

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Speaker 6: those same pings put him in the woods, stargazing or

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Speaker 6: whatever thing it is he's going to claim he's doing.

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Speaker 6: And so I think that the cell phone pings may

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Speaker 6: be helpful to and interestingly so to both sides, because

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Speaker 6: remember the defendants here, the defense counsel has a job

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Speaker 6: to maintain that this man is innocent until proven guilty

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Speaker 6: beyond a reasonable doubt, and they are fighting very hard.

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Speaker 6: They've made this easy for the prosecutor.

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Speaker 2: Right, Hey, when you're betraying a rock and a hardspot,

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Speaker 2: do you just immediately regurgitate innocent until proven guilty. We

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Speaker 2: all know that everybody watching this program right now is

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Speaker 2: illegal Eagle. They want to know the very latest in

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Speaker 2: every single case. We all know he's presumed until proven innocent.

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Speaker 2: And my question to you, which he very skillfully evaded,

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Speaker 2: is if his cell phone is moving along.

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Speaker 1: Where they go.

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Speaker 2: If they go to this food truck, there's his cell phone.

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Speaker 2: If they go to that restaurant, oop, there he is.

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Speaker 1: Again.

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Speaker 2: I mean, isn't it true, Dave Mack that at one

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Speaker 2: bar he was actually asked to leave because he was

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Speaker 2: making female patrons feel totally schewed out by asking them

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Speaker 2: questions such as, Hey, what's your home address?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he freaked out. He actually scared people are

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Speaker 4: women in this bar to a point where they actually

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Speaker 4: made a note on the tickets when he had been

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Speaker 4: there previously. It wasn't just one time, Nancy. He had

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Speaker 4: been to this bar several times, and each time it

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Speaker 4: got progressively worse to where none of the women wanted

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Speaker 4: to wait on him anymore.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, to you, Karen start joining us said, boy,

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Speaker 2: do we need a shrink? Karen Start Joining Us are

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Speaker 2: now on TV radio Trauma Expert Psychologists Consultant. It's Karenstark

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Speaker 2: dot Com. Karen with to see Karen, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: circle back to the pings potentially traveling along together and Karen,

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Speaker 2: I haven't even gotten to this dude wearing gloves to

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Speaker 2: the grocery store. I don't mean gloves because it's cold outside,

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Speaker 2: I mean surgeon gloves.

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Speaker 1: Okay, to the grocery store, Karen start. This is not

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Speaker 1: during COVID, where.

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Speaker 2: People would you know, spray four oh nine on their

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Speaker 2: keying goods before they touched them. This isn't now the

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Speaker 2: year and now for weeks after the murders, This guy,

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Speaker 2: Brian Coburger was wearing surgical gloves everywhere he went. I'll

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Speaker 2: go back to that, but what do you make And

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Speaker 2: I'd like to hear the roommate the former roommate.

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Speaker 1: One more time.

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Speaker 2: This is Ashlen Couch on a very emotional statement and

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Speaker 2: this is from our friends a k XL Y listen.

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Speaker 3: I texted like our group of friends, and I just

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Speaker 3: had said, has anyone.

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Speaker 1: Heard from Mady?

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Speaker 3: And I remember like my last text message to her

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Speaker 3: was like are you okay? And I feel like then

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Speaker 3: and there, I kind of just knew that something was wrong.

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Speaker 1: Karen start.

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Speaker 2: How many times have we heard that where a victim's

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Speaker 2: family member or friend would know instinctively that something was

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Speaker 2: horribly wrong. And there's a whole issue of survivor's guilt,

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Speaker 2: Karen Stark. If I had called her earlier, if I

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Speaker 2: had asked her out that night, if we had been

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Speaker 2: at fill in the blank, if and then fill in

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Speaker 2: the blank, that's what a lot of the friends are

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Speaker 2: going through.

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Speaker 7: Of course they are, Nancy, because we all know what

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Speaker 7: that's like. When you think if I had only been

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Speaker 7: able to and what's interesting we all have. I'm pretty

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Speaker 7: sure that experience of you have a feeling, you have

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Speaker 7: an instinct that something is wrong. And I know it

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Speaker 7: happens to me. We used to have them with my

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Speaker 7: mother all the time. It happens with my brother, my husband.

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Speaker 7: Sometimes you are so connected to people that you just

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Speaker 7: have a feeling that something is going on with them.

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Speaker 7: I think it's even happened between the two of us.

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Speaker 7: I've had that with you, You've had it with me.

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Speaker 7: When you know somebody really well, you are connected to

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Speaker 7: them over distance and you can feel it. And that's

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Speaker 7: what she's describing. We can all relate to that. We're

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Speaker 7: in the gloves. That's him protecting himself. This is a

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Speaker 7: man in total control, has to be on top of everything,

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Speaker 7: and now he's wearing gloves so that you can't get

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Speaker 7: near his DNA.

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised about that.

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, jo Scott Morgan joining me.

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Speaker 2: Professor Forenzigs, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

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Speaker 2: Feet on Amazon and start hit series Body Bags with

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Scott, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I know in your line of business, having been to

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Speaker 2: over ten thousand death scenes in your career, you have

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Speaker 2: had many people say I knew something was wrong, and

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Speaker 2: it's one thing to embellish the facts as you look

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Speaker 2: back retrospectively. But this young girl, Ashley Couch, was actually

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Speaker 2: frantically trying to text all of her friends trying to find.

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Speaker 1: Out where is Mattie.

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Speaker 2: Because Jo Scott, you and I reveal a lot of

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Speaker 2: evidence it was atypical of Maddie mac not to respond

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Speaker 2: and that struck concern as the hours ticked by.

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Speaker 8: It gives you pause. I think when you're conducting an investigation,

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Speaker 8: if someone deviates from their normal day to day routines,

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Speaker 8: and particularly when you're talking about responding to friends that

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Speaker 8: are considered to be within your intimate circle, that's something

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Speaker 8: that would give an individual pause. But Nacy, I have

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Speaker 8: another kind of chilling little side note about this and

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Speaker 8: this young lady. You know she moved on from her lease,

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Speaker 8: and do you know when she moved on from her

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Speaker 8: lease and turned it over, It approximates almost the same

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Speaker 8: exact time that Coburg shows up up in Washington. This

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Speaker 8: goes back to I think probably June May perhaps, And

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Speaker 8: that's another little chilling piece to this can you imagine

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Speaker 8: now retrospectively, that Ashlynd is sitting back and thinking about this,

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Speaker 8: that you know, almost one of those there, but for

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Speaker 8: the grace of God go I moments and again it

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Speaker 8: adds another layer of horror to this Nancy.

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Speaker 1: You know one thing.

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Speaker 2: I've really hated throughout this, Joscott Morgan, is the way

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Speaker 2: that some of the victims have been portrayed as like

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Speaker 2: party girls, tramps.

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Speaker 1: Staying out too late drinking. That's not true. Yes, they

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Speaker 1: were out that night, they were heading into the Thanksgiving weekend.

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Speaker 1: They were not.

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Speaker 2: Out any later than any other student would be on

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Speaker 2: a party night. None of these girls have arrest histories.

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Speaker 1: No, nothing like that. They're all making.

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Speaker 2: Good grades, They're beloved by their family. And you know what,

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Speaker 2: Joscott Morgan, as I always say, birds of a feather

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Speaker 2: flock together. When I look at Ashland Couch and I

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Speaker 2: hear her speak, that tells me not only who she is,

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Speaker 2: but who her friends are. I mean, just Scott, I

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Speaker 2: don't see you hanging out with the dope dealer down

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Speaker 2: at the corner. Why because you have nothing in common

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Speaker 2: in college in law school, people go, hey, did you go.

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Speaker 1: To that party? Friday night. I'm like, no, I'm studying.

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Speaker 2: I got two jobs and I've got to get through

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Speaker 2: law school and I got to pass the bar on

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Speaker 2: the first try.

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Speaker 1: That's not what I was doing.

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Speaker 2: I have my eye on a different prize. When I

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Speaker 2: look at Ashlyn Couch, the good girl, that tells me

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Speaker 2: who these victims were. And I've had it about up

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Speaker 2: to hear with people trashing them or their parents or

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Speaker 2: their mom or I think is so wrong, and that

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Speaker 2: is going to happen at this trial unless the judge

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Speaker 2: wakes up and pays attention.

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Speaker 8: One of the things I found fascinating about her interaction

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Speaker 8: and particularly where she was domiciled in this location, and

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Speaker 8: you know you were mentioning earlier, could she testify this

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Speaker 8: is what I think personally, that she's going to testify

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Speaker 8: to kind of the standard rattle and hum of what

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Speaker 8: it was like living in that home. Remember, as you

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Speaker 8: had mentioned talking about party and all this sort of thing.

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Speaker 8: One of the things that came out early on in

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Speaker 8: this case was this thought that this was party central. Right,

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Speaker 8: no one knows the codes to the door. It's always open,

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Speaker 8: the sliders are open. People can come and go as

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Speaker 8: they please. Well, Ashlyn. I think kind of from a

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Speaker 8: historic standpoint, she will be able to talk about that

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Speaker 8: as she lived there, and this is not something that

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Speaker 8: perhaps just occurred out of the blue. If this was

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Speaker 8: a party location, it had been a party location for

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Speaker 8: a while, and I think that that's gonna be rather

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Speaker 8: probative in this case.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and another thing about that, Joe Scott Morgan, I

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Speaker 2: will never forget. I moved into off campus housing with

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Speaker 2: some other co eds.

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Speaker 1: This is an undergrad and I had my parents come visit.

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Speaker 2: I got it all ready and cleaned at everything. Well,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't you know, this was on a Saturday night. They

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Speaker 2: were coming Sunday after church. I was waiting on them.

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Speaker 2: Little did I know that the guys below me I

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Speaker 2: lived on the top floor, the SAEs. I had no

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Speaker 2: idea who they were. I never knew them, had had

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Speaker 2: a huge kegger in the front yard and had somebody

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Speaker 2: had spray painted curse words all on the interior of

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Speaker 2: when my parents walked in. I'm not even gonna say

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Speaker 2: what they were, but they alluded to sex acts. And

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Speaker 2: my parents walked in and see this in red spray painted.

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Speaker 2: I had not even seen. I was, you know, mortified,

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Speaker 2: so I think you're right, this girl ashen Couch could

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Speaker 2: testify to you say, the home and the flow of

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Speaker 2: living there. But I was thinking about something else, Joe Scott.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about, you know that sliding glass door

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Speaker 2: that Chris mcdonna and I kept looking at, wondering if

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Speaker 2: that was the point of entry. I wonder if she

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Speaker 2: could testify if it locked, if it was easily accessible,

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Speaker 2: and there's one on each level.

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Speaker 1: Were there ever alarms in the home? So many things?

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Speaker 2: Also during these parties, could somebody sneak in and out

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Speaker 2: that wasn't invited? You see where I'm headed. She is

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Speaker 2: really a Pandora's box of information about the murder scene.

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Speaker 8: Yeah she is. And you know you talk about the

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Speaker 8: functionality this door's access and opportunity. Of course she's going

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Speaker 8: to be the only one to be able to tell

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Speaker 8: that tale, now, isn't she?

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Speaker 2: Nancy?

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Speaker 8: Because we can't go back to the physical structure.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've got you've got the two roommates that survived.

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Speaker 1: Remember we do.

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Speaker 8: But I think that that perhaps in this particular case,

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Speaker 8: you know, when it gets down to it, can she

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Speaker 8: actually and again this goes back to history, if the

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Speaker 8: door was not functioning the lock did not work. How

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Speaker 8: far back in time does she go, as like this

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Speaker 8: place her place of residence. How long had it been

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Speaker 8: for instance, if it was, how long had it not

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Speaker 8: been functioning. I'd like to know the answer to that

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Speaker 8: question and the points of access. Could someone be heard

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Speaker 8: coming in through that door again acoustically? She's going to

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Speaker 8: be able to testify to that.

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Speaker 9: A friend of an officer working the Brian Coburger murder

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Speaker 9: investigation says Coburger was very careful in the days before

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Speaker 9: his arrest. The source says the cop followed Coburger in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 9: and observed him wearing plastic gloves while picking up groceries

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Speaker 9: at a local Giant store. The cop also said that

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Speaker 9: Coberger's cell phone pings matched the movements of the victims

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Speaker 9: for weeks before the murders.

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Speaker 1: Oh, just right, till the jury hears this, listen.

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Speaker 2: You cannot under the law under the US Constitution as

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Speaker 2: it has been interpreted through case law cases that have

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Speaker 2: occurred after the Constitution. Of course, you cannot bring in

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Speaker 2: a suspect a defendant's bad reputation. You cannot bring in

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Speaker 2: evidence of bad acts unless they can be verified, and

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Speaker 2: they are similar to the case in chief, and we're

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Speaker 2: in a timely manner. But here when the police surveillance,

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Speaker 2: if this is confirmed, police surveillance are following Coburger and

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Speaker 2: they see him wearing plastic gloves into the grocery store,

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Speaker 2: apparently wearing plastic surgical type gloves for weeks after the murders.

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Speaker 2: Why And you're gonna hate this Mark tape, which makes

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Speaker 2: me super happy. Mark Tap renowned defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: You know what I love to tell a jury if

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Speaker 1: you don't know a horse. Look at that is track

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Speaker 1: record number one.

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Speaker 2: While these same cops were watching Coburger, they knew they

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Speaker 2: were going to arrest him. They were trying to get

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Speaker 2: DNA evidence. They already had some DNA evidence. Now they

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Speaker 2: needed the dad's DNA evidences. Driving along with Coburger, the

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Speaker 2: dad's just chatting away like nothing's wrong with the Coburger's.

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Speaker 1: Like, what the why are the cops pulling us over? Okay,

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Speaker 1: stay with me.

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Speaker 2: They're watching Coburger and they see Coburger outside putting the

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Speaker 2: family trash in the neighbors trash cans the dumpster, wearing gloves.

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Speaker 1: Wait, not done yet, Not done yet.

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Speaker 2: There were other times he's seen wearing gloves. Why why

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Speaker 2: is he wearing gloves all the time?

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Speaker 1: Mark Tate?

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Speaker 2: And how do you think that is going to affect

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Speaker 2: a jury?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I know it was. It came.

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Speaker 2: I gotta tell you more so when they arrest Coburger, Okay,

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Speaker 2: when they arrest him.

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Speaker 1: When they go it to his parents' home in.

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Speaker 2: The Poconos, they go in, it's like two, three, four

359
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Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 1: Coburger is standing there in the kitchen. Why is he up?

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Speaker 2: And everybody else is asleep in the middle of the

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Speaker 2: night and shorts.

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Speaker 6: I don't know you this morning. Well, no one's checking

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Speaker 6: out what you're wearing.

365
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Speaker 1: It you were.

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Speaker 6: Gloves, gloves, all rights.

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Speaker 1: And that's just off the top of my head. One

368
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Speaker 1: of the cops can tell me about more instances and

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Speaker 1: wearing gloves.

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Speaker 6: And in one instance he was throwing trash away. Can

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Speaker 6: you think of a better reason to wear gloves?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 6: In the other instance, so I.

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Speaker 1: Can't get my DNA with rupel murder, that's a good reason.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I understand, No, I got you, But maybe throwing

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Speaker 6: trash away it's okay to wear gloves. I don't know.

377
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Speaker 6: That's not something I think i'd rest my I had on.

378
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Speaker 6: As a prosecutor, however, I every single line that you mentioned,

379
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Speaker 6: well that he might have a problem win in this case.

380
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 6: I mean, you know you're not prosecuting it. So every

381
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Speaker 6: single time that a prosecutor comes up with a new

382
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Speaker 6: piece of evidence that requires witnesses to get in, as

383
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Speaker 6: a defense lawyer, I find that to be wonderful because

384
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Speaker 6: that gives me a whole nother opportunity to ask questions

385
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Speaker 6: that may or may not help me argue that there

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Speaker 6: is a reason to have a doubt about the guilt

387
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Speaker 6: of this man. And every witness is vulnerable, and some

388
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Speaker 6: of these people are going to rely on are not

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Speaker 6: experienced in handling the cross examination that I intend to

390
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Speaker 6: bring them. And if I'm able to say at the

391
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Speaker 6: end of the case that the prosecutor relies on this

392
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Speaker 6: person who's unreliable, then why should you convict We saw

393
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Speaker 6: it happen, You and I saw it happen together when

394
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Speaker 6: a man who murdered a woman and the man who

395
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Speaker 6: was driving is Ferrari around town walked because a glove

396
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Speaker 6: didn't fit. And I'm just saying that there is no

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Speaker 6: foregone conclusion in any youury trial, and these defense lawyers

398
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Speaker 6: are going to put this prosecution team to the test.

399
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Speaker 2: Clearly to Chris mcdunnad joining me veteran homicide detective and

400
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 2: your star. No, no, no, no, I'm going to somebody

401
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: that's let me just say a little less impeachable, Chris mcdonna,

402
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 2: have you ever heard which apparently they did not teach

403
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 2: us to mark Tate in moot court in law schools

404
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 2: SDSU sit down and shut up. Okay, that's just one

405
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: of those things you should learn. As hard for us

406
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Speaker 2: lawyers to do that because we think we can just

407
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 2: keep talking and then suddenly everybody's gonna agree with us.

408
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: Uh uh. You tell twelve people.

409
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Speaker 2: That this guy has got on surgical gloves in the

410
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Speaker 2: grocery store.

411
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Speaker 1: You know why he did that?

412
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Speaker 2: Right, if this could be confirmed, because he's heard about

413
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: all those cases we've been talking about. Wait till jo

414
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan jumps in on DNA Where cops can get

415
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: your DNA off a beer can.

416
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: A coffee cup, a pizza crust.

417
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Speaker 2: This guy was wearing gloves when he was getting rid

418
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Speaker 2: of trash in the neighbors Dixie dumpster.

419
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Speaker 1: When he was sorting through.

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Speaker 2: Trash and putting it into plastic zip lock bags in

421
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Speaker 2: his kitchen, his parents' kitchen.

422
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Speaker 1: And it just goes on and on and on.

423
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 2: I can't wait for a jury of twelve regular people

424
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Speaker 2: like us to hear this guy about his surgical gloves

425
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: all around the time with the murders.

426
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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I mean, it just happens to be

427
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 5: a coincidence that, you know, he decides to throw his

428
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 5: trash out in his neighbor's ben and then of course,

429
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 5: you know he takes these four am drives, or at

430
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Speaker 5: least he's awake at four am. You know, every moment

431
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 5: you think about this guy. If you look at all

432
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 5: of his phone pings, you know, does the guy ever sleep?

433
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 5: You know where we're not seeing these gloves though, one

434
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 5: All of these these glove incidents show up post incident.

435
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 5: But you know where we're not seeing it. We're not

436
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 5: seeing it in the classroom before the incident. We're not

437
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 5: seeing it in any of the photos of traffic stops

438
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 5: where he stopped before the homicides. And guess what, we're

439
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 5: not seeing it in the courtroom today. So I don't

440
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 5: know what the deal is. You know that a jury

441
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 5: wouldn't you know, say, why is this guy wearing gloves

442
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 5: at four a m. And you know, good luck for

443
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 5: the defense on trying.

444
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: To show on.

445
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 2: Let me throw this to our DNA expert, Joseph Scott Morgan,

446
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: Professor Forensics.

447
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: You know, all of this.

448
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: Is just anecdote on my back and forth with Mark.

449
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: Take that anecdotal telling a story. Okay?

450
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: Can we talk about hard evidence if it's true?

451
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 2: To look at the horses track record, you know what

452
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 2: that would tell me that he wore surgical gloves at

453
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: some point that night, Okay, when he was in that

454
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: home murdering those four people. And you may ask Joe

455
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, then how would his DNA be on the

456
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: knife shift?

457
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. How many times do.

458
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 2: You think an anal compulsive like Brian Coberger had practiced

459
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: opening that knife and fiddling with that knife and playing

460
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 2: with that knife and admiring that knife.

461
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: That's how the DNA got on there.

462
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 2: I think I think you were surgical gloves that night,

463
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 2: and I would be very surprised if we find his

464
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 2: actual fingerprints anywhere in that home.

465
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 8: It'd be tough to find, I think, and we probably

466
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 8: would have an indication of that. But yeah, I've held

467
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 8: throughout this, you know, when they found that sheath and

468
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 8: that contact DNA was there on that the snap, I

469
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 8: always had this idea of of of him actuating the button,

470
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 8: you know, sitting there with that snap, trying to flick

471
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 8: it back and forth to see how smoothly he could

472
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 8: do that. And some people have said, and I've had

473
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 8: people say this to me about this, well, why wasn't

474
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 8: his DNA found on other locations on the sheath? And

475
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 8: this is what I submit it. I think that he

476
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 8: may have wiped that sheath down at some point in time,

477
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 8: But the devil is always in the details. Nancy. That

478
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 8: little hidden underneath side of that snap, which I think

479
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 8: is where they probably recovered it, is not a place

480
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 8: that you would commonly consider to wipe it down if

481
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 8: you're looking to get rid of anything that was there,

482
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 8: that would be an identifier for you. It's an area

483
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 8: that he may have missed and he left it behind

484
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 8: in that one tiny area. I'm also interested in what

485
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 8: type of gloves he had at his home. Did they

486
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 8: find other gloves, So that's going to be a big

487
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 8: tell in this case. Nancy.

488
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 10: Part of the hearing on the fourteenth is to talk

489
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 10: about the different parts of that video that we've received

490
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 10: and how we need the whole contacts. This is the

491
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 10: video that they say places this car near the residence.

492
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 10: We've received little tiny pieces of that. We think Brian's

493
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 10: right to a fair try. I mean, the public needs

494
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 10: to know that they've withheld the audio from a great

495
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 10: portion of that and that it starts a long time

496
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 10: before the little clip that we've received.

497
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: Man, is she burying the lead.

498
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: She's complaining about the audio not being attached to the video.

499
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: Here's the bombshell.

500
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: There you are hearing the defense attorney for Brian Koburger

501
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: and Taylor talking about the existence of video that places

502
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 2: Coburger's car, the white Elantra, near the crime scene.

503
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the big deal.

504
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: We believe that there's going to be two different video

505
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 2: clips shown to the jury, one near the home and

506
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: one near the gas station there at the corner. And

507
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to let Chris mcdonnet describe the gas station

508
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 2: video what he believes it will portray, and the video

509
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: at the home we believe is going to portray. Guys

510
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: with me, an all star panel makes sense of what

511
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: we know, right now go ahay, Chris McDonald, everybody take

512
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: off your gloves. I promise not to collect your DNA. Well,

513
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: not during the show anyway, Go ahead.

514
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, So Nancy, right next to the murder scene, there's

515
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 5: a house right on the corner there, and outside in

516
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 5: the light socket for the front porch was an active

517
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 5: surveillance camera. I believe that the evidence will show that

518
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 5: that car comes up that street multiple times, and those

519
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 5: are the clips that they're holding back, as well as

520
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 5: the additional piece of evidence that they're going to show

521
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 5: is away from the scene. They're going to show that

522
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 5: that vehicle was either a coming into the crime scene

523
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 5: area and or be leaving. And I don't know if

524
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 5: they're going to be able to correlate that in relationship

525
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 5: to some of the phone things, because remember he turned

526
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 5: his phone off, so you know, that end of itself

527
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 5: is going to be interesting. Now, What's one other thing

528
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 5: I just want to make a point on here is

529
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 5: you know, the defense is saying they need to see

530
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 5: this video, yet they held the alibi for over a year,

531
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 5: so my sense is they're still working on that particular

532
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 5: forensic side of the evidence that's going.

533
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 6: To be presented.

534
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace too Jessine Scott Morgan, forensic.

535
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: Expert and professor at Jacksonville State University. I was listening

536
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: to every word she says, and she's saying that they've

537
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: gotten tiny pieces of the car near the residence.

538
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: You know what that tells me?

539
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: Also tiny pieces of the car, and she wants it

540
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: in context. That tells me there may be be more

541
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: than one surveillance video around the King Road.

542
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: Murder scene that's catching the car.

543
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: Do you remember the Photus Dulo's prosecution where missing Connecticut

544
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 2: mama find Jennifer Dulos went missing and there was a

545
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: copious amount of.

546
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: Blood, her blood found in the garage. You couldn't survive

547
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: the loss of that much blood, so we know she's dead.

548
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: And then the police.

549
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: There in Connecticut put together it was pretty incredible. Let

550
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: me just say, yes, Yes, a whole scene, a whole

551
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: timeline via different video of what Photus Dulos, the husband

552
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: now did, was doing.

553
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: You see him leaving, You see it.

554
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: Pick up with a red light cam seeing him cutting through.

555
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: You see him from a business cam surveillance video going

556
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: back and all the time he's going straight to the

557
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: car wash to get the car detail, but yet still

558
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: and even replacing the back seat which still had Jennifer's

559
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: hair on it and blood. As I recall, even when

560
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: a public bus door opened, you see his cargo by

561
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: because a lot of the buses have cams in them,

562
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: and they put together a collage to show his movements.

563
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 2: That's what I'm hearing right here is Ann Taylor is

564
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: complaining about little tiny pieces of the video placing the

565
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: car near the residents, according to police, and.

566
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: She doesn't like that, and she thinks that's not fair.

567
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: But what it is is different video cameras picking him

568
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: up along the way.

569
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: Did you decipher that? Am I feeding you? Spoon feeding you?

570
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 11: No?

571
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 8: Here's the thing, you know, these ring cams and these

572
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 8: CCTV obviously they're more prevalent today than at any other

573
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 8: point in time in history, and so we don't necessarily

574
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 8: know about where all of these clips are coming from.

575
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 8: We do know that the area that he was in,

576
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 8: allegedly this car moving back and forth, is going to

577
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 8: be the most densely populated area in this geographic location.

578
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 8: You know, you get out in these areas that are

579
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 8: far flong. Remember the loop that they talk about that

580
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 8: where they collected. They were trying to collect images off

581
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 8: of these gas station cams and wherever else the car

582
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 8: may have passed, this is going to be the target

583
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 8: rich area though around that residence at that point in time,

584
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 8: because you never know, you know, and you think about

585
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 8: just for instance, you think about one of these cars

586
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 8: like a Tesla for instance, that has an indwelling cam

587
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 8: that can pick things up. Did they shake the bushes

588
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 8: enough to collect enough of this data out there to

589
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 8: piece the sin completely together? Apparently she thinks they may have.

590
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 5: Nancy at least say that this ALII is you now

591
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 5: driving around.

592
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 7: That I work.

593
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 5: And that is alilar.

594
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 12: So what the defend has still failed to is to

595
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 12: comply by the nineteen five nineteen and I are portable

596
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 12: point one. The specific number requires a defendant to provide

597
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 12: identify on natings of witnesses who will be called the

598
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 12: support the alibi the law of their accesses.

599
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: Okay, the alibi was ripped apart by the prosecutor in

600
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: the last hearing, and there's.

601
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: A very good reason for that.

602
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: Just as the state has to hand over all of

603
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: their witnesses and how to contact their witnesses for the

604
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 2: defense to have the opportunity to interview them prior to trial.

605
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: The defense has to do that too. So why is

606
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: it that the.

607
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: Only corroboration mark tape that Coburger is bringing on is

608
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: a set of cell phone pings?

609
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 6: But there's nothing wrong with that. The prosecution has indicated

610
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 6: they're going to rely on cell phone pings. And the

611
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 6: rule the law about alibi and who is anytime after

612
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 6: arraignment you're allowed to tell the defendants, tell the prosecutors

613
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 6: rather that you're going to rely on alibi, and you

614
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 6: have to disclose your witnesses. However, here the witnesses are

615
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 6: cell phone pings, just like the prosecutions relying on cell

616
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 6: phone pings. So is the defendant rely allowed to rely

617
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 6: as well. Now, of course that's going to be put

618
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 6: in front of a jury, just like issues about whether

619
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 6: he wore gloves and how strange that is. All of

620
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 6: that will be admitted by witnesses, all of whom are

621
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 6: subject to a sifting cross examination. And so now the

622
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 6: prosecution knows there's going to be an alibi defense, and

623
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 6: when there is, it has to be supported by admissible evidence.

624
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 6: And so with each week.

625
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: Evidence to me, I got it.

626
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: Hey, that's what the defense layer has to do.

627
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: That's what they update.

628
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 6: A little bit of prosecution feet to the fire.

629
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: Can you put up that graphic?

630
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: I've got a pair here for you, but maybe you

631
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: could borry Koburger's.

632
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 1: Oh wait, no, they're in evidence.

633
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: You know, as we were talking earlier, uh, joining me,

634
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, you were talking about the pings and you

635
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: didn't get to say it on air, but Tate is

636
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: all about, Oh, the pings are going to help exonerate him.

637
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Okay, he's at home to forty two

638
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: he said, hum back at home at five point twenty seven.

639
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: He's at home at not nine thirty two am, but

640
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 2: wait a minute. Four point fifty phone ping, four forty eight,

641
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: phone turned back on. Wait, two forty seven am, right

642
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: before the murders.

643
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: In the middle of the night while.

644
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: He's out stargazing, he decides to turn his phone off

645
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: from two forty seven to four forty eight. Wow, Chris mcdona,

646
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: is that exactly when the time that murders occurred?

647
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 6: Yeah?

648
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 5: Absolutely, Nancy. And what's interesting a little and you going

649
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 5: to do it out?

650
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 13: You know. The one thing we learned about this shalliby

651
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 13: as well is all four of the victims are sound asleep,

652
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 13: and you know the twelve other times that he was

653
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 13: seen around that neighborhood, they were also asleep.

654
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 5: But in this particular case, you have the phone things

655
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 5: that get up to the point where they turn off

656
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 5: and then all of a sudden, the video picks it

657
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 5: back up in the neighborhood. I eve the car. So

658
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 5: you know, to try to sell that, you know, from

659
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 5: the defense. Whenever you hear a defense attorney say, you know,

660
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 5: the public has a right to know, and there's a

661
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 5: gag er, that's usually a clue that there's something coming.

662
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think the public has a right to know.

663
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 6: I think that the defendant has a right to know.

664
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 6: There's nothing about this. This is the public has a

665
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 6: right to know. That's the defendant's right to know to

666
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 6: defend himself. So I don't really care about the public

667
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 6: indefendent this guy. I'm just saying that, you know, if

668
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 6: the prosecution can use pings, the defendant can use pings.

669
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 11: Coburger has spent over five hundred days in jail awaiting trial.

670
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 11: Every day in the jail cost one hundred and ninety

671
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 11: four dollars, totaling nearly one hundred thousand dollars so far.

672
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 11: Coburger's defense team bills over five hundred dollars an hour.

673
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 11: The hours police spent costs nearly a million dollars. The

674
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 11: University of Idaho left with a massive bill, spending one

675
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 11: point four million dollars on increased security and another two

676
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 11: hundred thousand on counseling individual It's estimated taxpayers spent roughly

677
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 11: three point six million as a result of the murders day.

678
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: Matt, what did I just.

679
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 4: Hear well for Brian Coberger's defense team to pretty much

680
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 4: spend at will. I never heard of anything like this

681
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 4: in my life, Nancy Grace.

682
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 2: Okay, a total of three point six million dollars the

683
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: taxpayers are paid for Coburger.

684
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 4: When they say we paid that the taxpayer money, I

685
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 4: wish they would actually send me a question here about

686
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 4: what I'm willing to pay for, you know, ahead of time,

687
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: because this is ridiculous.

688
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: Three point six million billion dollars on Coburger and all

689
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: of his defense attorneys and experts. We're now learning about

690
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: Coburger bringing on another expert to try and shore up

691
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: his alibi che ching.

692
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 4: Listen the document filed serves the Coburger's official alibi and

693
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 4: claims quote mister Coburger was out driving in the early

694
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 4: morning hours of November thirteen, twenty twenty two, as he

695
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 4: often did to hike and run and or see the

696
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 4: moon and stars. He drove throughout the area south of Pullman, Washington,

697
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 4: west of Moscow, Idaho, including well why we Park. To

698
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 4: further solidify his alibi, Coberger said he plans to offer

699
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 4: testimony from a CSLI expert to show that he was

700
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 4: south of Pullman and west of Moscow at the time

701
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 4: of the murders, and that he did not travel east

702
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 4: on the Moscow Pullman Highway in the early morning hours

703
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 4: of November thirteen, twenty twenty two.

704
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: Okay, Chris McDonald, what is a CSLI expert?

705
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 5: That expert, Nancy will be an individual that will be

706
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 5: able to tell investigators in or a jury what the

707
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 5: signature is of that phone, i e. The information coming

708
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 5: out of that phone to the nearby cell telligence you know.

709
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: To you, Karen Stark, I know.

710
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: I hope the state doesn't get bogged down in a

711
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 2: lot of scientific evidence. That's what happened in the Tottenham

712
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: Casey Anthony trial. Where she killed her daughter Kelly and

713
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: was acquitted. But that evidence was true, but it did

714
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: get bogged down. You know what once the jury hears

715
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: that after the murders, this guy went everywhere wearing plastic gloves.

716
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: You know, I don't need an expert to tell me

717
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 2: that's evidence of guilt.

718
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: And I don't mean just that, Karen Stark, not just that.

719
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: Of course, the DNA on the knife, the fact that

720
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 2: he ordered the exact same knife and she from Amazon.

721
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 2: But what it's missing, nobody can find it. The cell phone,

722
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: the video stream cobble together where we see his movements

723
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: that night. There's so much evidence, Karen, much less this.

724
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 7: You're talking about a guy who needs complete control and dominance. Nancy.

725
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 7: I know this is going to come out. And how

726
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 7: telling is it that the phone is on and right

727
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 7: before the murders he turns it off, And that to

728
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 7: me is completely compelling. And this guy, he has a

729
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 7: history of steering at women to the point where they

730
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 7: throw him out of restaurants. But he's been complained about,

731
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 7: he's been said that he's odd. He takes control in

732
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 7: a classroom, he has his studies how to do murders.

733
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Karen Stark.

734
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: It hasn't come out yet, and I don't think that

735
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: it will be part of the evidence because it will

736
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: be very inflammatory. But when I was in Moscow and

737
00:40:54,360 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: around Pullman speaking to people there, several female steertudents came

738
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: up to talk about how angry he would act at them,

739
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 2: great them.

740
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: Much more severely than he did men.

741
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it was very compelling evidence that this guy

742
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 2: hates women. I mean, I had to be a strength

743
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: to figure out why. But I bet the jury will

744
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: never hear all that. Everything changing every day in the

745
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: lead up to this trial. Let's stop and remember American

746
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: hero Captain Jack Casey.

747
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: Just twenty six.

748
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: Casey passed away with four other Marines and a helicopter

749
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: crash this February. A US Marine, he earned the National

750
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: Defense Service Medal. He has survived by grieving wife Emma,

751
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 2: his mother Catherine, and his father James. American hero Captain

752
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 2: Jack Casey. Everyone, I want to thank you for being

753
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: with us tonight. Thank you to our guests as well.

754
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off, good night friend,