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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. It is Saturday,

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Speaker 1: so we have another Vault episode for you. This one's

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Speaker 1: a bit older than some of the Vault episodes that

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Speaker 1: we roll out. This is an episode that originally published

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Speaker 1: twelve twenty three. Twenty twenty one seems like a very

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Speaker 1: long time ago, but I guess it wasn't really that

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Speaker 1: long ago. This is our episode the Ancient and Occult

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Speaker 1: History of the A Christmas Story leg Lamp. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: leg lamp from the nineteen eighty three holiday film A

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Speaker 1: Christmas Story. We get into it and we talk about

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Speaker 1: the deep, ancient and occult history of lamps and other

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Speaker 1: objects shaped in the likeness of a human leg or foot.

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Speaker 1: So it's a holiday celebration, so let's slip it on.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be our last core, our last new core episode

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Speaker 1: of the year. And what do we have for you here?

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Speaker 1: Another holiday episode. And we really didn't know until just

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Speaker 1: a few days ago exactly what the Holiday episode would be.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about doing an episode on reindeer related stuff,

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Speaker 1: and maybe we'll do that next year. And then we

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Speaker 1: were talking about, well, let's we've done previous episode where

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Speaker 1: we talked about holiday inventions, Christmas inventions and so forth,

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Speaker 1: maybe we could do another one of those. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we started looking into some topics and we wound up

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Speaker 1: focusing entirely upon the nineteen eighty three holiday film A

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Speaker 1: Christmas Story.

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Speaker 3: Well not just on the movie, on the movie's most

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Speaker 3: sacred prop that's right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for a little bit there we were thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: look at all the things that are to talk about

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Speaker 1: in a Christmas story. We could talk about soap poisoning,

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Speaker 1: freezing your tongue to a flag pole, the dangers posed

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Speaker 1: by BB guns, how furnace work.

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Speaker 3: I gotta say, having looked into the medical literature on

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Speaker 3: soap poisoning, first of all, it is a real thing. Second,

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Speaker 3: that's some pretty dark territory. Not the most fun way

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Speaker 3: to head into the holidays.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's pretty dark. And Christmas story. You

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Speaker 1: know there he is, he's a child and he's blind,

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Speaker 1: and his parents feel such remorse for having him put

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Speaker 1: that bar of soap in his mouth.

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Speaker 3: Now from what I could tell in my brief investigation,

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's dangerous to put a bar of

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Speaker 3: soap in your mouth for a few minutes, but you

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Speaker 3: definitely don't want to like eat a significant amount of it.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, so soap poisoning is a thing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, don't swallow soap.

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Speaker 1: But like I said, we're not We're not focusing on

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Speaker 1: the soap here we're talking. We're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about the old Man's major award. We're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about that leg lamp.

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Speaker 3: Now, Rob. I don't know if you've had this experience,

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Speaker 3: but I can say most of my exposure to a

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Speaker 3: Christmas story the movie comes in the form of a

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Speaker 3: sort of running, droning background ways that's going on at

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Speaker 3: a at a some kind of family house around Christmas

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Speaker 3: while it's just playing on an infinite loop on some

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Speaker 3: cable TV station that is turned on in a room

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Speaker 3: I might not even be in very much, But when

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Speaker 3: this happens, I noticed that this must have something to

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Speaker 3: do with like the patterns with which I come and

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Speaker 3: go into certain rooms in the house. So that would

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Speaker 3: be an interesting thing to study on its own. But

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Speaker 3: I will pretty frequently have the experience of seeing one

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Speaker 3: scene in the movie like five times in the same

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Speaker 3: day and it's always the same scene. And for me,

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Speaker 3: it has definitely been the scene where the old man

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Speaker 3: is in the house and a big crate arrives and

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Speaker 3: we get the lines about it being Fredgi Lay and

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Speaker 3: he digs through the straw and then pulls out this

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Speaker 3: glorious leg lamp.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have I have a similar experience with a

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Speaker 1: Christmas story. It would there were there are There have

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Speaker 1: been some dedicated viewings of it, you know, throughout the years,

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Speaker 1: but most of it's just it's on TV during Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and therefore you watch it or you watch part of it,

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Speaker 1: and so when you actually set down and watch it

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Speaker 1: in its entirety, there will be these scenes that you

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Speaker 1: remember really vividly, and then there are scenes that you

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Speaker 1: didn't realize were part of the movie at all. That

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. I should probably inform everyone what this

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Speaker 1: movie is. A number of you were probably familiar with it,

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Speaker 1: some of you were not. This was a nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: three holiday film that was based on the writings of

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Speaker 1: Jane Shepherd, particularly on the book In God We Trust

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Speaker 1: All Others Pay Cash. It's one Boy's account of childhood,

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Speaker 1: Holiday dreams, desires, and fears. It's a fun movie with

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Speaker 1: some solid laughs in. It's some good heart, but not

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Speaker 1: to a sappy degree, especially for a holiday film. And

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Speaker 1: in some ways you could almost think of it as

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Speaker 1: kind of like a proto Simpsons, you know, like it's

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Speaker 1: some of the gags that they get up to in

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Speaker 1: a Christmas story are the sorts of things that would

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Speaker 1: happen on The Simpsons later on. But of course the

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Speaker 1: Simpsons leans more into more, more into the satire and

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Speaker 1: more into like pop cultural references, you know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. Like, can't you imagine an episode where Homer

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Speaker 1: gets some sort of obnoxious award that he wants to

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Speaker 1: display at the front of the house. Oh, Marge doesn't

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Speaker 1: like it, and maybe something terrible ends up happening to

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Speaker 1: the award and he blames her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, now that you say that, I can't imagine that

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Speaker 3: being a plotline.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I mean Ralphie is essentially a good boy,

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Speaker 1: whereas Bart is a bad boy, so you know we

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Speaker 1: have to take that into account as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Bart would not dream of getting a BB gun

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Speaker 3: for Christmas. He would just go And I don't know,

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Speaker 3: shoplift a BB gun or something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh well, I mean I hope he learned his

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Speaker 1: lesson from that Christmas episode of The Simpsons where he

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Speaker 1: did shoplift.

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Speaker 3: Remember, Oh that's right. Oh I remember that One's actually

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Speaker 3: very sad because his mother is very disappointed in him.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, we just huged that heart strings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a solid episode like that sort of Simpsons episode

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Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of this, though in a weird way.

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Speaker 1: That Simpsons episode is more serious than a Christmas story is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it he steals? It's like a video

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Speaker 3: games like the Bone Storm for whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like essentially like a Mortal Kombat type game

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Speaker 1: that just seems like the greatest thing ever. And they

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Speaker 1: have like the muscled Santa Claus and the commercial.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're not going to give a Christmas story the

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Speaker 1: full weird house cinema treatment or anything here today, but

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Speaker 1: I do want to just point out real quickly a

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Speaker 1: few of the people involved in it because it's kind

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Speaker 1: of fun. First of all, I was directed by Bob Clark,

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Speaker 1: who also directed the notorious holiday proto slasher Black Christmas

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four, which I have never seen, but

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Speaker 1: it had a great cast, including Olivia Hussey, Margo Kidder,

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Speaker 1: Kira Dulia from two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey,

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Speaker 1: and of course Weird House Cinema favorite John Saxon.

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Speaker 3: Everybody at home do a push up for John Saxon

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 1: He also directed Death Dream Murder by Decree, which is

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Speaker 1: a Sherlock Holmes versus Jack the Ripper story, two Porky's movies,

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Speaker 1: two Baby Geniuses movies.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Porky's and Baby Geniuses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but still there's some good stuff in there.

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Speaker 1: He passed away in two thousand and seven, but I

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Speaker 1: think a Christmas story is likely to remain.

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Speaker 4: His legacy, Like this is the one that's going to.

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Speaker 1: Really stick, though I guess Black Christmas also has its

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Speaker 1: place in film history as well. Sure, and as far

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Speaker 1: as the cast, guy has a wonderful cast Christmas story,

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Speaker 1: But the two main characters worth pointing out for our purposes.

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Speaker 1: The old Man is played by the always terrific Darren McGavin.

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Speaker 1: This is the guy who played Could Shak the knights Stalker.

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Speaker 1: I think he was also in the Arnold Swarzenegger film

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Speaker 1: Raw Deal Okay, and the mom is played by Melinda Dillon,

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Speaker 1: who was in Harry and the Henderson's as well as

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Speaker 1: Spontaneous Combustion, which is one of the films that we

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Speaker 1: covered on Weird House Cinema this year.

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Speaker 3: Did she play like the creepy scientist? Am I right

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Speaker 3: about that?

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Speaker 1: It's really hard to remember. Everybody else just kind of

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Speaker 1: grows him against the burning fire that is Dora's performance

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Speaker 1: in that. Brad Dorof is just so good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just double check she's the German scientist. I

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Speaker 3: think at some point Brad Dorriff goes to her house

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Speaker 3: and maybe she catches on fire, and I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know, probably that's probably that's generally how it goes. But

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Speaker 1: I don't want to sell her short because Melinda Dylan

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Speaker 1: is a great actor as well. She was in Close

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Speaker 1: Encounters of the Third Kind and Absence of Malice in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one. She was nominated for two Academy Awards

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Speaker 1: and one Tony Award.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but we don't want to leave anybody out. For

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Speaker 3: the like eight people in the audience who have never

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Speaker 3: seen this movie or even just seen this sequence in

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Speaker 3: the movie on five times in the same day on Christmas.

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Speaker 3: But what's the deal with the major award.

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Speaker 1: Well, it is, as we've been saying, a major award.

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Speaker 1: It is something he has won for his achievements in

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Speaker 1: a game. And what is the game, Joe.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's like it's like a trivia contest,

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Speaker 3: maybe done through the mail from a newspaper, though I

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Speaker 3: think it's worth of saying that he actually does not

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Speaker 3: supply most of the answers on the contest. He has

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Speaker 3: to ask Melinda Dylon and she actually knows the answers.

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Speaker 3: Then he fills them in and it sends it off

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Speaker 3: or something, and apparently wins this trivia contest by answering

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Speaker 3: questions like what is the name of the Lone Rangers

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Speaker 3: nephew's horse. But later in the film, after he receives

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Speaker 3: his major award, when people ask him how what it

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Speaker 3: was for, he says, it's for mind power.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's this wonderful design. It is a lamp

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Speaker 1: that is shaped like a woman's leg wearing a fishnet stocking,

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Speaker 1: with the shade resembling a kind of mini skirt or

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Speaker 1: short hoop dress or something. And as we learn in

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Speaker 1: the show, it's an item of much controversy in the

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Speaker 1: household and it's clear that Mom does not like this

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Speaker 1: lamp and certainly does not think it belongs at the

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Speaker 1: front of the house where neighbors can see it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's already it's it's becoming a topic of discussion in

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood. And then what happens there is an accident.

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Speaker 1: Somebody is cleaning too close to the lamp and it

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Speaker 1: is accidentally destroyed.

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Speaker 3: Now, I think one of the great points of humor

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Speaker 3: in the movie is that it is never made clear

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Speaker 3: why a lamp shaped like a sexy leg is the

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Speaker 3: prize for winning this newspaper contest. Like there's no connection there,

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Speaker 3: Like why would this be what you get? And it's

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Speaker 3: just not explained.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it doesn't even say anything, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the lamp. It's not like the award is shaped

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Speaker 1: like a lamp. No, this is just a lamp that

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Speaker 1: shaped like a leg. But he is he is fond

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Speaker 1: of it. He thinks it is wonderful.

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Speaker 4: She does not.

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Speaker 1: It becomes it becomes a controversial issue between the two

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Speaker 1: of them. It is destroyed. An attempt to rebuild the

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Speaker 1: leg lamp seems possible, but we'll never know if it

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Speaker 1: was successful. We suspect that it was not, that this

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Speaker 1: is something that, once broken can never be repaired.

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Speaker 3: Well. I think also there's a little bit of subtlety there,

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Speaker 3: because when the old man is trying to repair it

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Speaker 3: with glue and failing, you sense in him a kind

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Speaker 3: of a kind of waning enthusiasm, where it may be,

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Speaker 3: in fact, that he is realizing that his wife was

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Speaker 3: correct and thinking that this lamp is rather tacky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he didn't want to admit it earlier. Right,

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Speaker 1: So this is this lamp. This is a hilarious part

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Speaker 1: of the film. This is based on the chapter My

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Speaker 1: Old Man and the Thilcivias Special Award that heralded the

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Speaker 1: birth of pop art from the nineteen sixty six novel

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Speaker 1: In God We Trust All.

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Speaker 4: Others pay cash.

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Speaker 1: But it's really taken on a life of its own.

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Speaker 1: Since then, you can now buy replicas of the lamp,

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Speaker 1: reproductions of the rent lamp in various sizes. You can

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Speaker 1: get Christmas tree ornaments where the Christmas I mean you

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Speaker 1: can basically get Christmas tree ornaments of it, or even

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Speaker 1: Christmas lights of the lamp. Like the amp has become

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Speaker 1: like this weird symbol all its own. I was reading

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Speaker 1: about it on read Kraiger's blog Inventor's Digest, and apparently

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Speaker 1: Shepard was inspired to create this fictional lamp based on

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Speaker 1: knee high soda ads that he remembered seeing in magazines

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Speaker 1: showing two shapely legs up to the knee. He remembered

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Speaker 1: these from when he was a boy. And then for

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Speaker 1: the film production designer Ruben Fried, he did the rest

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Speaker 1: and the lamp is apparently protected by two different trademarks.

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Speaker 1: They've been mass produced over the years, and yes you

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Speaker 1: can buy them today as functional lamps. When this movie

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Speaker 1: came out, you could only dream of such a thing.

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Speaker 1: I think they made just a handful of these for

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Speaker 1: the film, but now it is achievable by anyone.

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Speaker 3: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, But I believe I

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Speaker 3: read somewhere that the original lamp prop made for the

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Speaker 3: film no longer exists.

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Speaker 1: That is what I was reading as well. Yeah, lost

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Speaker 1: to history like so many great works.

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Speaker 3: Like many of the art works of the Parthenon or

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Speaker 3: the great antiquities, they just fade to time.

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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of antiquities, obviously this can't be where the

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Speaker 1: story begins and ends, right, There has to be more

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Speaker 1: of it. There has to be more to the lamp

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Speaker 1: that is a leg, and the leg that is a lamp.

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Speaker 3: By God, if there's not more to it, will make

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Speaker 3: more to it.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely well.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to the obvious place to discuss all of

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Speaker 1: this is to go way back and just talk about

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Speaker 1: lamps in general. The lamp in the movie is of

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Speaker 1: course an electric lamp with origins in the early nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: but the history of illumination technology.

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Speaker 4: Goes way back. Obviously.

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Speaker 1: You can think to our invention episodes on fire technology,

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Speaker 1: and indeed the most basic form of illumination technology is

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Speaker 1: of course a mere torch or a burning brand of

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Speaker 1: some sort, or even a very primitive burning stick. These

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Speaker 1: wall get it done. But according to Brian M. Fagan

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Speaker 1: and Garrett G. Fagan in the Seventy Great Inventions of

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Speaker 1: the Ancient World, wick burning lamps go back at least

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Speaker 1: as far as the late Paleolithic period. It's thirty thousands

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Speaker 1: through ten thousand years ago. All you need is a

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Speaker 1: reservoir of fuel and a wick made from plant fiber

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Speaker 1: or even something like human hair. And the fuel itself

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Speaker 1: can be any number of things. It can be oil,

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Speaker 1: it can be fat and sometimes salt was added to

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Speaker 1: oil to keep it from overheating. Tons of lamps survived

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Speaker 1: from the ancient world, as these were, of course widespread

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Speaker 1: and extremely useful pieces of technology. They illuminate your environment.

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Speaker 1: They turn nighttime, well not it doesn't turn nighttime into day,

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Speaker 1: but it provides some of the illumination that you would

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Speaker 1: have in the daytime in a nice concentrated form.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think one of the things that's useful

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Speaker 3: about a lamp or like a candle. We've talked about

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Speaker 3: this in core episodes of the show before, is that

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Speaker 3: they provide light for a long period of time. They're

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Speaker 3: constructed so as to gradually slowly feed the fuel into

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Speaker 3: the flame, rather than have the fire just burned through

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Speaker 3: the fuel source as fast as it possibly can, like

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Speaker 3: it would with you know, many other things, like you know,

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Speaker 3: a lit stick or something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the technology here, the device itself, allows you to

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Speaker 1: make the most out of your limited fuel. Now real quick,

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Speaker 1: I want to just mention the Fagans quickly. Brian Fagan,

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Speaker 1: of course, Brian M. Fagan is someone I cite a

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Speaker 1: lot on the show starters that Great Inventions.

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Speaker 4: Book is super useful.

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Speaker 1: But he's written a number of volumes and still has

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Speaker 1: books coming out, including a new book with Nadia Durrani

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Speaker 1: titled Climate Chaos Lessons on Survival from Our Ancestors Now.

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Speaker 1: The other Fagan, though, Garrett G. Fagan, was an Irish

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Speaker 1: American ancient historian, best known for his social histories of

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Speaker 1: Roman bathing and the Spectacles of the Roman Arena. And

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong on this, but I do not

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Speaker 1: believe the these two Fagans are related at all. They

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Speaker 1: just happen to work together in this one chapter in

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Speaker 1: the seventy grade Inventions of the Ancient World that deals

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Speaker 1: with illumination technology.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so lamps go very far back into the Paleolithic period.

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Speaker 1: Right, and lamp technology of this basic sword can be

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Speaker 1: found from throughout Mesopotamia. And the shape of the reservoir varies,

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Speaker 1: so you can use basically found objects as your reservoir.

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Speaker 1: So seashells were often used because these were naturally occurring

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Speaker 1: shallow bowls with ridges to accommodate a wick at one end.

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Speaker 1: But then once you start making artificial reservoirs for your

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Speaker 1: oil or your fat, whatever you're burning your fuel, then

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Speaker 1: you're making them out of pottery or even metal, and

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Speaker 1: this allows for all manner of simple and ornate lamp designs.

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Speaker 1: And you know where we're going with that, right, Oh,

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Speaker 1: of course. Yeah, the obvious question is how many of

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Speaker 1: these lamps were.

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Speaker 4: Shaped like legs?

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Speaker 3: Well, are you going to tell me?

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Speaker 1: Well, this is a difficult question to answer, Joe. Humans have,

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Speaker 1: of course always loved to craft things in the likeness

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Speaker 1: of animals and or themselves, and animal legs and feet

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Speaker 1: have always been a favorite motif. In fact, Fagan includes

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Speaker 1: an image of one in the book. It's a first

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Speaker 1: century CE brazier from Pompeii with beautiful like animal feet

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Speaker 1: supporting it. And of course we still see this today

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Speaker 1: with you know, tubs, anything. It's like it's the human

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Speaker 1: artisan can't help it. It's like, well, I have put

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Speaker 1: feet upon this device or this prop or this piece

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Speaker 1: of furniture. Could I not make those feet like actual feet?

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Speaker 1: And I guess you could even say there's a bit

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Speaker 1: of biomimicry there as well, like if you're going to

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Speaker 1: support an object with these like stumpy pods, well maybe

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Speaker 1: make them look like a foot.

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Speaker 3: That's true. In fact, you've got me thinking about how

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Speaker 3: often the legs of you know, fancier pieces of furniture

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Speaker 3: are kind of shaped to be organic or flesh like

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Speaker 3: in a way. They might have kind of curves on them,

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Speaker 3: similar to a human leg or to an animal leg,

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Speaker 3: even if they're not explicitly trying to depict a human

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Speaker 3: or animal leg like with toes and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Right though, of course, there are plenty of explicit depictions

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Speaker 1: out there, whereas like it straight up looks like the

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Speaker 1: foot of a lion or a goat or what have you.

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Speaker 1: So looking around in the history of lamp designs, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I miss something interesting, But I've come across

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Speaker 1: two different examples of from Greek and Roman traditions that

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Speaker 1: are that are pretty interesting, particularly when dealing with the

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Speaker 1: Greek ascos and the Greek alabastron.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: An ascos is an ancient Greek pottery vessel used to

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Speaker 1: pour liquids such as oils, so it is not quite

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Speaker 1: a lamp, though it could have been used to store

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Speaker 1: lamp oil and could have been used to re fill lamps,

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Speaker 1: and many of these were decorated and decorational, sometimes in

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Speaker 1: the form of animals. And then an alabastron is similar.

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Speaker 1: It's a pottery vessel often used for holding oils or perfumes,

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Speaker 1: named for the carved alabaster containers from Egypt that started

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Speaker 1: the design. Key and the key thing here is that

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Speaker 1: these are generally elongated, so they are, by their very

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Speaker 1: nature in their sort of generic form, kind of leg shaped.

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Speaker 1: So you'll find both of these in various shapes and forms,

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Speaker 1: and they're littered throughout museums and collections around the world.

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Speaker 1: But I was able to find some images for starters.

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Speaker 1: There's a leg shaped ascos or alabastron that is or

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Speaker 1: was in the collection of the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto,

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Speaker 1: though I've had trouble finding out any additional information about it.

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Speaker 1: I might have to ask anyone out there who has

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Speaker 1: visited the Royal Ontario Museum or can visit it now

383
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Speaker 1: to go in and try and get me more answers

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Speaker 1: on this. But the image I found is indeed an alabastron,

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Speaker 1: or it appears to be an alabaster. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: figure out what the scale is here. It is shaped

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Speaker 1: like a essentially like a naked human leg, and it's

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Speaker 1: free standing. It looks like it had it maybe has

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Speaker 1: sandals drawn on it, and it was used to hold

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Speaker 1: oil or something.

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Speaker 3: This gives new meaning to the expression that someone who

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Speaker 3: can hold their liquor has a quote hollow leg.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this is indeed hollow leg. I wonder if that Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that phrase. Now I was

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00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: able to find more information on another one. There is

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Speaker 1: a Greek pottery alabastron in the shape of a grieved

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Speaker 1: or armored leg from Corinth or Rhodes circa sixth century BCE.

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Speaker 1: And it's part or was part, I'm not sure of.

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Speaker 1: The Callos Collection in London included an image of this

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Speaker 1: for you to look.

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Speaker 4: At as well. Joe.

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00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 1: So this is less decorative, but also is not a

403
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Speaker 1: naked leg. It has armor on it.

404
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is more like an ancient RoboCop leg.

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00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the Callos Collection website shares the following quote. The

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00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 1: Callos example above is a very rare and fine alabastron

408
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 1: that takes the shape of a leg protected by a greeve,

409
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: dating to the sixth century BC. It is an interesting

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00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: example of a plastic vase from this period. And note

411
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: the use of the term plastic here. It's not modern

412
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: plastic obviously. This just means that it's molded, and this

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00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 1: is derived from the Greek verb placine, meaning to mold quote.

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Speaker 1: The greeve is outlined in black slip and tapers toward

415
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Speaker 1: the ankle area. The foot emerges beneath with carefully insized

416
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: details for the sandal and toes. Although primarily used as

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Speaker 1: a container, the form of this alabastron as a grieved

418
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Speaker 1: leg implies that it may also have been used at

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Speaker 1: or dedicated to a sanctuary as a votive offering. There

420
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Speaker 1: is a very similar example of this rare type in

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Speaker 1: the Museum of Farmacia in Portugal, and they include an

422
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: inventory number, and I was able to look it up.

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Speaker 1: It's number ten eighty nine to two, and you get

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Speaker 1: kind of a delightful rear view of this freestanding hollow leg.

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Speaker 3: I was, okay, so it seems like a bunch of

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Speaker 3: ancient Greeks really pouring stuff out of legs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: Now, again, these are not lamps. They're merely containers that

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Speaker 1: may have contained lamp oil and may have been used

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00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: to refill lamps. But we're not done yet. So, as

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00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: the Pagans point out, the Roman period was a time

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Speaker 1: of pottery lamp mass production and lamps of every design

433
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Speaker 1: were used for not only practical reasons providing illumination when

434
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 1: you need it, but also purely esthetic reasons and even

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00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: religious and occult reasons. And that brings us to the

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00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: next example, the Roman foot lamp.

437
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 4: Ooh.

438
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: I initially found these on the Farrabee Keeper blog by

439
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: Wayne Farrabee, a Brooklyn based rider, and I have to

440
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: say this is quite a good, good looking blog. Looks

441
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: like a lot of interesting content on here. If anyone

442
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: wants to check it out, it's uh Farabee Keeper dot org,

443
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: press dot com.

444
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 4: And uh.

445
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: The great thing here is that we're not just talking

446
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: about one lamp. We're not talking about Oh well, here's

447
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 1: the Roman foot lamp, and we we don't we have

448
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: no idea why they made this. Instead, we have several

449
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 1: different surviving lamps, and I've included images for you to

450
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: look at. Joe, I invite anyone out there to either

451
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: visit that Farrabee website or to to do Google image

452
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 1: searches so you can pull this up for yourself, because

453
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: these are these are wondrous and and really strange to

454
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: look at. They are lamps in the shape of a

455
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: human foot, as the name implies, with with with with

456
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: essentially a stopper or lid at the aperture where the

457
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: stump of the disembodied foot would be. And then there

458
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: is another aperture at the big toe, and it is

459
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: from this that the and and therefore the flame would emerge.

460
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 3: Right, So I guess you would hold this by the

461
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 3: handle at the back of the foot, so you're holding

462
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: it like behind the heel, and then you would have

463
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 3: the flame sticking out of the big toe at the front.

464
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 4: Yes, if you were holding it.

465
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: But then, as we'll discuss, there are some questions regarding

466
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: exactly what one does with a foot lamp. But I'm

467
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: looking at it too. It also reminds me a bit

468
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: of depictions of the hand of Glory, the you know,

469
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: the occult item that is supposed to be like the

470
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: disembodied hand of a of a like a criminal's corpse,

471
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: that is then transformed into this magical item that burns

472
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: candle light from the fingertips and you know, has strange

473
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: energies and effects.

474
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 4: Except this is not a hand. This is a foot.

475
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 3: It's not a real glory.

476
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: It's a ceramic foot, and you know it's a it's

477
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: a foot of pottery, and yeah, there is this flame

478
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: that is emitting from either in front of the toe

479
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: or from the toe itself on exactly how how the

480
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: sculptor or has has arranged it.

481
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 4: You know.

482
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: Now, what I would wonder is is this just like

483
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 3: because somebody wanted an interesting lamp and they made lamps

484
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: that look like looked like all kinds of things. Or

485
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 3: would a foot lamp have a particular significance in say

486
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 3: a religious or political context or something.

487
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is that is the riddle that the

488
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: rest of us are left having to solve. So Pharaby

489
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: points out that the symbols and motifs of the ancient

490
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: Romans don't always make sense to us today, which I

491
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: think is a very fair point. And he says that

492
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: the best explanation that he could find were that these

493
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: were sort of literal footlights placed on the floor or

494
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: a ground, especially at the base of murals, which which

495
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: is interesting. It's still hard to figure out exactly like

496
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: what that means. It just you know, pure novelty. It's like, well,

497
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: it's it's a foot lamp, or it's a lamp that

498
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: goes on the ground where our feet are. Let's make

499
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: it in the shape of a foot is well, well

500
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: to call back to the Simpsons. That kind of reminds

501
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: me of why is there corn on the curtains in

502
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: the kitchen? I don't know kitchen food corn?

503
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

504
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 1: Or imagine time traveler visiting our current age and finding

505
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: solar powered outdoor lights that look like mushrooms. Why do

506
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: they look like mushrooms? Well, I mean it basically comes

507
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: down to there on the ground where mushrooms are, so

508
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: why not make them look like mushrooms? It amuses us,

509
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,479
Speaker 1: It just makes sense, yes, But I decided to look

510
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: into this a little bit deep deeper, and I looked

511
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: in a book titled Light and Darkness in Ancient Greek

512
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: Myth and Religion from twenty ten. This has numerous authors

513
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: on it, but is edited by Christopholis and Lavaniuk. And

514
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: they mentioned that Roman footlamps were used in incubation rituals,

515
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: citing a couple of sources as well that I tried

516
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: to follow, but I don't think they actually have English translations.

517
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: So incubation rituals or dream incubation rituals involve involved sleeping

518
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: in sacred places in order to receive dreams or visions.

519
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: And it seems that copious amounts of lamps were often

520
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: associated with many of the sites where you would engage

521
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: in incubation rituals, as described in a book by Sandra

522
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: Blakely titled God's Objects and Ritual Practice.

523
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 3: I don't remember what episode it was in the past,

524
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: but somehow this came out, but I think we were

525
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 3: talking about ancient rituals for dream incubation, specifically with regard

526
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 3: to the Greek god of healing in medicine, Asclepius, where

527
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: people who were sick and wanted healing would come to

528
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: the temple of Asclepias and actually sleep in the temple

529
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: in order to like they'd make an offering or do

530
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 3: a ritual and they'd sleep in the temple in order

531
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: to receive a dream from the god as a form

532
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: of cure for their illness.

533
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. That would be. That would be

534
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: dream and incubation. That's what we're talking about here. But

535
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: how do these lamps come into play? I found another

536
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: source that had some wonderful inside here, and this was

537
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: a nineteen forty six paper titled Material on the Cult

538
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: of Sirapis by Dorothy Kent Hill. And I'm going to

539
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: read a quote from it here. But first I want

540
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: to run through a couple of things here so that

541
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: everyone will know what's being referred to. So, first of all,

542
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: a Ureus is a curling snake motif, probably best recognized

543
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: as a symbol of divine authority on the heads of

544
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: Egyptian sarcophagus. So I think everyone's probably seen one of

545
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: these before, you know, like a hooded cobra or a

546
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: snake that is emerging from a head dress or from

547
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: the head of one of these artistic depictions.

548
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: Also known as a boss snake.

549
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah.

550
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: And then Syrapis. It was a Greco Egyptian deity. He

551
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: was introduced, but not necessarily created by Greek pharaoh Ptolemy

552
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: the First Soda as an attempt to unify Greek and

553
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: Egyptian culture. Specifically, as Geraldine Pinch points out, in Egyptian

554
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: mythology a Diza. He was meant to be a combination

555
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: of Appis and Osiris and Zeus and Dionysus. Now, Syrapus

556
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: is often depicted with something on his head that might

557
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: be confused by the casual viewer as maybe something that

558
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: is also involved in illumination, like it looks like you

559
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: look at images of him, and it kind of looks

560
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: like you're supposed to put a candle on top of

561
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: his head.

562
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't really look like a hat or anything.

563
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: It just looks like there's some kind of like container,

564
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: bucket or something attached to his head in the form

565
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: that he's in now, as a piece of statuary or something.

566
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 4: Yeah.

567
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: So at first I was thinking, well, maybe it's illumination

568
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 1: is involved in more ways than one here, But as

569
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: it turns out, Syrapis is often depicted with this thing

570
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: on his head called a modius, which is a basket

571
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: grain measure, a Greek symbol for the land of the dead. Now,

572
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: in this tech by Dorothy Kent Hill, she includes two

573
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: images of bronze lamps in the form of human feet,

574
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: and they're very much like we've described thus far, except

575
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: there's an extra interesting thing about them. So, yes, you

576
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: have the big toe or something just beyond the big

577
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: toe that is clearly designed for the wick to go

578
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: in and for flame to come out of. There is

579
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: the larger aperture at the stump of the disembodied foot.

580
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: But in both of these you also have a rod

581
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: that's basically going up from the base of the heel,

582
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: and this is something that she ends up reflecting on.

583
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: I should also add, at the top of this rod

584
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: that's emerging from the base of the heel, we see

585
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: once more this ureus symbol. We see the curled snake.

586
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there it is what the hood flared.

587
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: So this is what she had to say. Quote lamps

588
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: modeled after parts of the body, especially the foot, we're very,

589
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: very common in antiquity. Such a lamp might reflect no

590
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,239
Speaker 1: more than a whimsical mood of a craftsman. But the

591
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: ureus immediately suggests a connection with the giant detached syrapus

592
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: feed recently studied by Dow and Upsen. On these monuments,

593
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: the ureus is usually curled somewhere in the neighborhood of

594
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: the ankle. Here it coils on a rod which rises

595
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: at the back of the foot. The space between the

596
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: top of the foot and the tail of the snake

597
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: is great enough to accommodate a small bust of syrapis,

598
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: which would correspond in position to the busts on some

599
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: of the stone feet. We have observed that something was

600
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: attached to the cover, and may now suggest a bust

601
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: of the god. As the most plausible candidate. If the

602
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: bust were placed in this position, the Uaeus would appear

603
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: to loom over the head of the god.

604
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, so I feel like I must be

605
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: understanding this wrong. But does this mean this would be

606
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: a foot with a head on the leg of the

607
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 3: foot and then a snake over the head.

608
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I am to understand here. It's

609
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: kind of like, here's a foot, let's put it. Or

610
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: maybe we should think in reverse. I have a bust

611
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: of a god I want to display. I want to

612
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: display it. I don't want to just lay it on

613
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: the floor though. I need something to hold it up,

614
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: and also I need to illuminate it. Well, I need

615
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: a foot, and I need a foot that emits fire.

616
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: And then you know they're able to work the Uaeus

617
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: into it as the rod that is holding the bust

618
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: above the foot. And there's more, because she writes quote,

619
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: the smoke rising before the god from the lamp would

620
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: create an eerie religious effect. Although Syrapis was by no

621
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: means the only deity honored on lamps, his frequent presence,

622
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: there is evidence for the probability of his guardianship over

623
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: this bronze foot referring to the example that she's talking

624
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: about in the article. Certainly, however, there are not good

625
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: grounds for connecting all foot shaped lamps with the Syrapis cult.

626
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, she also speculates she brings up Psalms one nineteen.

627
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a

628
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: light into my path, suggesting that you know, there are

629
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: various ways we could interpret a foot shaped lamp that

630
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: and again it comes back to the basic question like

631
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: how much of this is novelty, how much of it

632
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: is based in some reference that just has not survived

633
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: the ages, or indeed, I mean, I have to say this,

634
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: this idea of the lamp being used to illuminate and

635
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: create like a smoky effect before the image of a god. Uh, there,

636
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: there's something attractive about that. And and perhaps this idea too.

637
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: Yeah that it's like if well, if I'm going to

638
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: hold up the face of a god on some sort

639
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: of a stand, then I need it to be in

640
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: a foot as well. Like I there's something about the

641
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: compulsion there that is it's fascinating, Like would it be

642
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: wrong to hold up that bust of Serapis without a foot,

643
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: without a human foot at the bottom. Would there be

644
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: something kind of blasphemous about that?

645
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: I wonder, Well, it's funny how the idea of a

646
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 3: pedestal is derived from pad like foot, but in this

647
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 3: case it's literally a foot.

648
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is interesting too to think of in

649
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: comparison to a Christmas story, because obviously, with a Christmas story,

650
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: part of the whole deal with the lamp is that

651
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: it is objectification of the female form. It's the idea

652
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: of like, here is just the leg of a woman

653
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: that is sexy, you know, without taking into new account

654
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: the rest of her as a physical, whole being and

655
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: of course as a person. In this it almost seems

656
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: like we have the reverse where it's like, well, if

657
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: we're going to have something else attached to this piece

658
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: of a god, we need it to also be a

659
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: physical piece of said god.

660
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: Perhaps, Okay, I'm going.

661
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 4: With you now.

662
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: Realistically, I think that's about all the connects these ancient

663
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: foot lamps with a Christmas story. You know, probably no

664
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: more than to say, making objects, including lamps that look

665
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: like feeder legs, is just the sort of thing that

666
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: human artisans might do. But I think if we were

667
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: to be unrealistic about the action we could wonder that

668
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: perhaps what has happened here is the old man has

669
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: has entered into the worship of an ancient Greco Egyptian

670
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: god and wishes to bring the city of Cleveland under

671
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: his domain. His wife, however, clearly she serves the god Osiris,

672
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 1: who Syrapis, you know, partially replaces whereas it is introduced

673
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: to replace, and so she brings about the lamp's destruction

674
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: in a campaign to keep Cleveland under the sway of

675
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 1: the green skinned god.

676
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 4: Yeah.

677
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 3: I think there's also some underworld stuff you can do

678
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: with him going into the basement to fight the furnace.

679
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: That seems to connect maybe somehow.

680
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: Oh but you know, we also have to think about

681
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: the fact that, okay, if the god Syrapis is also

682
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: still Osiris to some extent, I mean, part of the

683
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: whole myth of Osiris is that his body is dismembered.

684
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: You know, that's part of the whole you know, Osiris

685
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: myth cycle. It's about his death and resurrection. And of

686
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: course we see the lamp broken into pieces as well,

687
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: and an attempt, a failed attempt to resurrect it.

688
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 3: That's very good, Kudos to you, Rob.

689
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm just interpreting the work of the gods.

690
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 3: Here, I'm just a messenger.

691
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 4: Yes.

692
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 3: Now, on the subject of tenuous connections to ancient art,

693
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about leg sculpture a little bit

694
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 3: more broadly, and at the risk of getting sappy, I

695
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: also just have to say that the idea of sculpture

696
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: of the human form as a lamp got me thinking

697
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: about a line in one of my favorite poems. I'm

698
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 3: sure this is what I've brought up on the show before.

699
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 3: I don't remember when, but it's the poem The Archaic

700
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: Torso of Apollo by Rayner Maria Rilka. I'm sure I've

701
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 3: read this one at you before, Rob Adam.

702
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: Well, let's see. I read a little bit and i'll

703
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: see of it rings a bell.

704
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, so this is the English translation by Stephen Mitchell.

705
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: I can't read the whole poem, but it's worth looking

706
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 3: up The Archaic torsov Apollo. It's a excellent poem. But

707
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: Stephen mitchell translation begins, we cannot know his legendary head

708
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 3: with eyes like ripening fruit, and yet his torso is

709
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: still suffused with brilliance from inside, like a lamp in

710
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 3: which his gaze now turned low gleams in all its power.

711
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 4: All right, all right.

712
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: From here, he goes on to describe this the kind

713
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 3: of strange life flowing through this dismembered sculpture from ancient Greece,

714
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: and it ends with a line that's pretty famous in

715
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: this translation. It says, for here there is no place

716
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: that does not see you. You must change your life.

717
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: So it's about Roka's experience of looking at this fragment

718
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 3: of an ancient sculpture of the human form that he

719
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 3: sees it. I think he sees it in the louver

720
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: one day and having this profound kind of stirring and

721
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 3: even frightening human connection with it. Now, the word that

722
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: appears as lamp in this English version I think I've

723
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 3: seen translated as candelabrum in others. But in any case,

724
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: I like this because the line in the poem seems

725
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 3: to be confessing the power of great sculpture, to suggest

726
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 3: that there's something more than just mimicry of the shape

727
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: of a human in great sculpture. It's not just that

728
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 3: great sculpture gets the outline and the form and the

729
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 3: contours of a human, right, It's that in great sculpture

730
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 3: something actually seems to be alive inside it, almost perceptibly

731
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: moving or lighting up. And I think this is the

732
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: case for Rilca. Even though the sculpture he's looking at

733
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: has arrived in the modern world in a totally degraded form,

734
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 3: he mentions that it has no head. He calls it

735
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 3: a torso. So I looked it up, and I think

736
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: the actual artwork that he's talking about here is usually

737
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: understood to be an artifact in the collection of the

738
00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: Louver called the kuros of Melitas or the torso of Melitas.

739
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: So it is the torso of this nude male figure

740
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 3: that's a very common form of sculpture and in archaic

741
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: Greek art known as the kouros, and this one was

742
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: excavated from the remains of militias. It is missing its head,

743
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: it's missing both arms. It's missing one leg up to

744
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 3: the upper thigh and the other leg from above the knee. Rob,

745
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: I've got an image from a couple of angles for

746
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 3: you to look at just down below here.

747
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is quite quite striking. Yeah, the lifelike muscle

748
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: definition on this torso.

749
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 3: I agree. Even though it's like missing most of the

750
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 3: parts of the body, there's still something a little bit

751
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 3: haunting about it. I know what Rolka is talking about

752
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 3: because I see a kind of hint of that light

753
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 3: or animating life force in it, though in a muted

754
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 3: or half formed way, which I think is the ambiguity

755
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: that makes the sculpture an interesting subject for poetry. It's

756
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 3: what we can't fully see or know about it that

757
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 3: makes it unsettling and something kind of ring within our

758
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 3: chest when we look at it. And I think that's

759
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,959
Speaker 3: the thing also that leads Rilka to say, you must

760
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: change your life. But this leads me to the fuller

761
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: observation I wanted to make connecting the leg lamp to

762
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 3: art history, which is that I think you could make

763
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: a pretty good case that when it comes to sculpture

764
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 3: of the human form, the legs are the life. Hmm okay,

765
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 3: now why would I say that. Here's the case I

766
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: want to make. One thing that's interesting about this sculpture,

767
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 3: the Curos of Melitis, is that it seems to come

768
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 3: from a period of transition in ancient Greek art, when

769
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: Greek art was moving from what modern art historians called

770
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 3: the Archaic period into what we now call the Classical period,

771
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 3: and this transition was sometime in the fifth century BCE

772
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 3: that seemed to be roughly the turning point, and so

773
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: rob to illustrate, I want to let you look at

774
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: a couple of statues of the human form, both from

775
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 3: ancient Greece, and so there's going to be one here

776
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: you can look at on the left that's typical of

777
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: the archaic style, and one on the right that's typical

778
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 3: of the classical style. These are both images I found

779
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: on the website of the Met Museum, so both things

780
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: in the collection there, but to describe them from you

781
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 3: out there listening at home, the older statue, I would

782
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: say is very rigid, with very straight upright posture. It

783
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: is looking straight forward at you with very square shoulders,

784
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: and the head is pointed straight towards you. So it's

785
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 3: very just an aligned body. In fact, I would say

786
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: that in a lot of ways it looks similar to

787
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 3: sculpture from ancient Egypt.

788
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has a very two dimensional kind of appearance

789
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: to it. It's forward facing. It does not even though

790
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: it is itself a three dimensional object, it is not

791
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: really like owning that three dimensional space.

792
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 3: Right, And I want to be clear as I go

793
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: ahead that I would say For my part, I think

794
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: both of these styles are beautiful, both striking in their

795
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 3: own way. I certainly would not say that I think

796
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: one is somehow better than the other, but there is

797
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 3: a difference. So when you look at the second kind,

798
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 3: these sculptures that are typical of the classical style beginning

799
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 3: in the fifth century BCE. A good example of this,

800
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 3: if you want to look it up at home. One

801
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 3: is called the Dori Foos or the spear Bearer by

802
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 3: the ancient Greek sculptor Polyclitis p O L y k

803
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 3: l e I t o s. And these classical ones

804
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 3: are very different in that they have I would say,

805
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: this powerful lifelike quality that we see developing in this period.

806
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 3: It looks it looks like there is something alive and

807
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 3: even moving inside this totally still hunk of dead rock.

808
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

809
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: And I think if you've ever visited a sculpture garden

810
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: and organa does to see some of these classical works

811
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: reproductions of these classical works, you know exactly what we're

812
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: talking about. You know, It's that that feeling that this

813
00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: is this is life that was captured and frozen. You know,

814
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: you look at it at one of these statues and

815
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: it looks as if it had just moved and it

816
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: wasn't even necessarily posing for the artist, you know.

817
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great comparison. They often the classical sculptures

818
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 3: look as if, you know, you're a fly on the

819
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 3: wall and you have just frozen time in the middle

820
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 3: of a scene, and this is what was happening while say,

821
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: you know, the discus thrower was winding up to throw,

822
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: or somebody was leaning back to regard someone who had

823
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 3: just entered the room. Does that make sense?

824
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like the spear bear here, he's kind

825
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: of has the pose like, oh, are you sculpting me?

826
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I was just standing here naked.

827
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the question is what makes the difference? How

828
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 3: do you go again? I think both styles are wonderful,

829
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 3: But what makes the difference from this style that is

830
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 3: striking as artwork but doesn't look lifelike to this kind

831
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 3: of the classical period that almost it feels like it

832
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: has a pulse, you know, it looks like there's something

833
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 3: just about to move. I think there are a number

834
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 3: of changes in artistic technique, and I fully admit that

835
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: there's a lot about classical art that I don't know

836
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 3: or understand. But I am to understand that one of

837
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 3: the most significant developments here is a change in the

838
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 3: approach to the depictions of legs, hips, and posture, which

839
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 3: would come to be known by later artists and scholars

840
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: as contra posto. So I was trying to find a

841
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 3: succinct definition of this. I found one on a website

842
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 3: for the National Galleries of Scotland. So this museum describes

843
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 3: contra posto as quote, a standing human figure carrying its

844
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 3: weight on one leg so that the opposite hip rises

845
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 3: to produce a relaxed curve in the body. Now, I

846
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 3: hope when I say that, you can kind of picture

847
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 3: that you realize, like, oh, yes, I have seen statues

848
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 3: like this where the figure being shown has all of

849
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: their weight shifted to their back leg and their other

850
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 3: leg is kind of lifted and bent, and this sort

851
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 3: of causes a shift, a corresponding sh in the position

852
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 3: of the hips, and then also causes a kind of

853
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 3: twist in the spine where it looks like the character

854
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: has been caught in the middle of turning or leaning

855
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 3: or relaxing or something. And the result is this powerful

856
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: striking quality of life caught in the middle of motion.

857
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely.

858
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 3: And again this is in contrast to the posture that

859
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: would have been common for standing sculptures of the human

860
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 3: form in Greek art of the period just before this,

861
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 3: the Archaic period, where again the curos, the nude male

862
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,959
Speaker 3: figure would usually have a rigid, straight posture with weight

863
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: equally distributed on both legs. And again, for some reason,

864
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 3: while I think that is artistically beautiful, it doesn't look alive.

865
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 3: Something happens when you twist the form like that, the

866
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,959
Speaker 3: adjustment of the legs so that the weight is on

867
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 3: one leg and not the other. It almost seems to

868
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 3: to peel back this opening in the shroud that separates

869
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 3: animate from inanimate. You shift the weight across the legs,

870
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 3: and the twist the hips and the spine accordingly, and

871
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 3: something just happens. Stone can become flesh, and sculpture can

872
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 3: sort of it can start to have that glow, that

873
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 3: unsettling quality of movement or soul.

874
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: I don't think I'd really thought about this much before,

875
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, absolutely. You look at you look at these

876
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: these statues, the ones that are the most lifelike, and

877
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: you do see this kind of you know, it's in

878
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: the legs often it's it's how though the weight is distributed.

879
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: I mean really one of the most iconic examples of

880
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: this would probably be Michelangelo's David. Oh yeah, where if

881
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: you look look at the legs and it's exactly what

882
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about here.

883
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 3: Well, yes, I think Actually, again, I admit I don't

884
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 3: know a ton about art history, but I think that

885
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 3: this is something that was consciously sort of noticed and

886
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: then recreated on purpose by Renaissance artists looking back to

887
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 3: classical art, like they sort of noticed this about the

888
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 3: legs and the posture and said like, oh, hey, you know,

889
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 3: let's the keys do like that, and even can up

890
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 3: kick it up a notch from there, because I think

891
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: the Renaissance artists took it a step further where there

892
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 3: would be sort of like a double twist in the

893
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 3: body like you see on the David, where the the

894
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: you know, the legs are the legs have the lower

895
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: bodies weight shifted one way and then the upper bodies

896
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 3: kind of kind of shifting back even in the other direction.

897
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at a photo of it right now,

898
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: and yeah, absolutely.

899
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 3: So there's my case. The legs are the life.

900
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: It makes me want to go and uh and visit

901
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: a museum with a number of sculptures. I go to

902
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: the met and start looking at the legs more because

903
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: often there's the legs are not the the the obvious

904
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: focal point of the statue. Instead, you're drawn to well,

905
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: you're drawing to like the chest or or certainly with

906
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: the nude statues, you might you know, notice what is

907
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: there or isn't there concerning the groin. Oftentimes they have

908
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: a weapon, or they're holding like the head of a Medusa,

909
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: or they're fighting a centaur. There's generally a lot going on.

910
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: It's easy to miss the legs and not think about

911
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: these things. But now that it's been pointed out to me,

912
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: like I want to I want to go. I want

913
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 1: to look at the legs of some statues and see

914
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: to what extent their life is brought about by this effect.

915
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. Once you notice it, you kind of can't

916
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 3: unsee it.

917
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

918
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 3: So to conclude, I guess you must change your life.

919
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: And how would you connect all of this to a

920
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: Christmas story and the major award?

921
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 3: Well, I told you it was going to be tenuous.

922
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 3: But okay, you know leg sculpture, right, that's what I got.

923
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: All right now, Obviously we'd love to hear from everyone

924
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: out there. Do you do you have additional insights on

925
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 1: the history of lamps that look like legs or feet,

926
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: or the history of sculpture and an artifice depicting legs

927
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: and feet? Certainly right in, because we would love to

928
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: hear from you. Also, just additional thoughts on the deep

929
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: occult secrets that are hidden within the film A Christmas Story?

930
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 3: Are you going to fall asleep with it? Playing to

931
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 3: inky bit? A dream that ooh yeah, bring you a

932
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 3: gift from the gods?

933
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: It is a film with multiple like dream and vision

934
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: sequences in it, so im perfect for that.

935
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 4: All right.

936
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: Like we said, this will probably be the last new

937
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: episode of Stuff to Blow your mind for the year,

938
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: but we'll be back in January with all new episodes.

939
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: We're gonna We're gonna be I'm excited to see what

940
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: kind of topics we end up discussing. We have a

941
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: whole list of potential topics, stuff we've thought up, stuff

942
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: that you have submitted to us, So we have plenty

943
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: plenty of material to draw from and we're looking forward

944
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: to it. In the meantime, you can find all of

945
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: our episodes and the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast

946
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: feed wherever you get your podcasts. Core episodes of the

947
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: show on Tuesdays and Thursdays, listener mail on Monday's short

948
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: form Artifact on Wednesdays, and on Fridays, we do Weird

949
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: House Cinema. That's our time to set aside most practical

950
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: and serious concerns and just talk about a strange film.

951
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent to your producer,

952
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 3: Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in

953
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 3: touch with us with feedback on this episode or any

954
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,439
Speaker 3: other suggest topic for the future, or just to say hello,

955
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

956
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

957
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

958
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

959
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.