1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Call Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 2: It's it could Happen here, the podcast about things falling 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 2: apart and how to put them back together again. 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: I'm your host vo Long. 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: So for people who listened to yesterday's episode, which I'm 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: hoping is like most of you, Yeah, So yesterday it 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: was a very kind of downer episode on hurricane misinformation 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 2: and the way that these sort of people construct these 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: reality tunnels and you know, have become active participants in 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: their own sort of propagandizement. And I think we kind 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: of we left on a kind of note of of 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: what you can do for sort of individual people, right, 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: which is the same mechanisms you usually get someone out 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: of a cult, which is you you stay with them, 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: you maintain enough personal connection that you can pull them 16 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 2: out if they ever want. 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: To come out. But that's also not a large scale 18 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: solution to this problem. 19 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: And in order to talk about a large scale solution 20 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: to both our present social crisis and the ecolog logical 21 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: crisis that this social crisis is being aimed to sort 22 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: of cover up. Right now, I'm talking to Rosewater, who's 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: the hub coordinator for the Sunrise Movement's DC Hub and 24 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: delegate to Sunrise's Delicate Body and also a solo punk 25 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: organized at Rosewater. 26 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having 27 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: me on. 28 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, hi everybody, my name is Rosewater and yeah, longtime 29 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 3: fan of cool Zone Media. Y'all were my introduction to 30 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: my current democratic confederalist politics. 31 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. So it feels like. 32 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: A really fun, like full circle moment to have a 33 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 3: chance to be on the pod. 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm excited to talk to you. So specific 35 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: thing where we're talking about is in terms of there 36 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: being an actual plan for what people are doing like 37 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: past the next three weeks, like after the election. The 38 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: biggest thing that has been happening is it's just something 39 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: we've talked about a little bit on this show, is 40 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: the proposed twenty twenty eight general strike. Do you want 41 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about what that is before 42 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: we get into Sunrises involvements and yeah, the sort of 43 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: broader story. 44 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 45 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I feel like most people who follow leftist 46 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 3: politics were following the UAW strike against the Big three 47 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: automaker's last fall, and people found that they found their 48 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: strike really inspiring and they had like really strong gains 49 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 3: that were the sort of straightforward like increase pay like 50 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: better benefits type stuff, and people were celebrating that. But 51 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: I would say the two actual most important changes were 52 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 3: not reported on nearly as much. One was they eroded 53 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 3: their labor piece clause and they made it possible to 54 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 3: go on strike if any of their facilities were closed, 55 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 3: which labor Piece has in my opinion, been sort of 56 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 3: strangling the US left for eighty years. 57 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, can you explain what that is for people? 58 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 2: I think we've usually were broadly talked about as no 59 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: strike clauses, But yeah, can you explain what that is? 60 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, labor Piece is essentially a truce that was 61 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: established between the labor movement, capitalists, and the US government 62 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 3: where the labor movement gets generalized rights and the US 63 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 3: government is like a quote fair mediator between capitalists and 64 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: the labor movement, and capitalists get a consistent workforce and 65 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: peace like peace from disruptions. And this essentially was established 66 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: between the beginning of World War Two and the end 67 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: of the Red Scare, when all of the socialists and 68 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: markets and communists were expelled from the labor movement, and 69 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: it felt like a good deal to a lot of 70 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 3: liberals at the time, and a lot of normal rank 71 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: and file workers at the time, but on reflection, it 72 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 3: has really strangled the US labor movement. And so the 73 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: fact that the UAW eroded they're no strike clause at 74 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 3: all is a huge precedent, right. 75 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is something I mean, I mean, I 76 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: remember I don't remember if this actually got into the 77 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: Labor Does episode that I did, but I remember at 78 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: Labor Notes, so I was listening to people talk about this, 79 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: and this is stuff that I think the global impact 80 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: of it has also been really underplayed. Like I mean, 81 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 2: obviously there was a lot of times you paid this 82 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: in Mexico, right, because there's a lot of like, you know, 83 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: the structure of the of the auto industry is such that. 84 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 1: It's so obvious to me. I didn't even think about 85 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: that until just now. Yeah. 86 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: So one of the things that NAFTA did is that 87 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: sort of right across the border, right, a whole sort 88 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: of range of factories that are right across the border 89 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: that operate off Mexican labor, that do some of the 90 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: auto industry stuff. And so there's always been sort of 91 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: connections between the more independent unions there and sort of 92 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 2: American unions. But like you know, but this is also 93 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: struck as being watched really, really heavily in China, Yeah, 94 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: which is interesting because like Chenese state unions are a 95 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: fucking joke, basically not real unions at all. And the 96 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: extent to which you know, the China's version of the 97 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: labor piece was also the deal was less like you 98 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: get rights and we get like labor piece and more 99 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: like we're going to just stamp out all working class organization. Yeah, completely, 100 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 2: and in a way that like was more even more 101 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: thorough than what happened here where most of it got 102 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 2: wiped out. I think like the breaking of the labor 103 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 2: piece and the demonstration that there is another way is 104 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: something that has reverberated massively across a lot of different 105 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: places that I don't think both the people organizing the 106 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 2: strike or the sort of like press coverage of it 107 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: has really gotten into sort of how wide the reverberations 108 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 2: of this have been. 109 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: Right. I think if it were just eroding that clause alone, 110 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 3: it wouldn't be such a signal. 111 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, definitely. The real thing. 112 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: That caught my attention at for was immediately afterwards they 113 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 3: changed the end of their contract date to International Workers 114 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 3: Day twenty twenty eight and they called on every union 115 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 3: in the country and later every union in the world 116 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: to align with that contract and go on strike with 117 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 3: them on May first, twenty twenty eight, and that was 118 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 3: the first time, Like, correct me if I'm wrong, that 119 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 3: was the first time that a major labor union in 120 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 3: America has called for a planned general strike since nineteen 121 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: forty eight. 122 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 123 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 2: I think that's true, and I think there being an 124 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: actual plan and they're being a way to do it 125 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 2: that's legal is a big deal because part of the 126 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 2: problem with this is that there's you know, unlike unlike 127 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 2: a country like France, American labor law is specifically designed 128 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: so that you don't have this happen. There's a bunch 129 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 2: of legal mechanisms for this, but it's very very specifically 130 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 2: designed to make sure that people are not alledged to 131 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: solidarity strikes. People are not allowed to coordinate the entire 132 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: power of their action. Yeah, and this is a pretty 133 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: promising way around that. 134 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, this may be better for later in the episode. 135 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: But one of the things that we're doing is where 136 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: in collaboration with the Institute for Social Ecology, doing a 137 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 3: teach in on labor peace and the history of general 138 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: strikes in the US about a week after the election 139 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: in order to orient ourselves in whatever new political contexts 140 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 3: exists there. 141 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: But yeah, so yeah, I think that's a jumping off 142 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: point to get into. I think Sunriise is kind of 143 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: an unlikely organization that people would think to be getting 144 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: excited and trying to get involved in a labor struggle. 145 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: But yeah, let's talk about how Summery's got involved. And 146 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: I guess first, also, I don't know how many people 147 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: listening to this know what Sunrise is. And if you 148 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: do know what Sunrise is, that might also make you 149 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: war surprise you're getting involved in labor. 150 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, let's about that. 151 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so Sunrise is a youth climate movement that has 152 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: been one of the main advocates for the idea of 153 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 3: a Green New Deal. When AOC first came into office 154 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 3: and she did that like sit in at Nancy Pelosi's office, 155 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 3: like that was a Sunrise action, And we historically have 156 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 3: been an org that sort of like tries to bridge 157 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 3: the divide between people who are sort of a politically 158 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 3: liberal and more radical politics, which is a hard place 159 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: to be. 160 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, someone's got to do it, But we've. 161 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: Really focused on trying to like connect environmentalism with labor. Actually, 162 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 3: our main slogans, the main intervention that we've succeeded at 163 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 3: has been associating the idea of environmental action with jobs, 164 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: like green jobs and stuff like that. The problem with 165 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 3: that has been one it has been primarily rhetorical, especially 166 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 3: after Burnley's loss in twenty twenty. Yeah, and stories matter, 167 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 3: but material conditions matter more. And the reason that we 168 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 3: didn't we weren't more materially involved in connecting labor and environmentalism, 169 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 3: and by that I mean like connected with the unions, 170 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: is that unions leadership was often very far to our right, 171 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 3: you know, especially in the United States, so it didn't 172 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 3: feel like it made sense. But as a result, the 173 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 3: sort of Biden years have been a time where there's 174 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 3: been a lot of internal discussion about like who we are. 175 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: Are we a radical movement that sort of positions itself 176 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: rhetorically as more normy in order to bring in like 177 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: young people who whose parents won't let them, you know, 178 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 3: join a fight to end all unjust hierarchies, or like 179 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: sees the means of production, etc. Like are we a 180 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: radical movement that poses normy or are we a like 181 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 3: liberal progressive movement that sometimes asks for radical things, and 182 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 3: that's been a really big conflict within the ORG these 183 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: last few years, because the path to any climate action, 184 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 3: the only path that a lot of people have seen, 185 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 3: has been electoral stuff, pushing politicians and things like that. 186 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 3: In a lot of ways, the Inflation Production Act was 187 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: a direct result of Sunrise's organizing and our work to 188 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 3: try and force through the Build Back Better program, but 189 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: it aligned us with Biden, and from the point of 190 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 3: view of a lot of our organizers, like even if 191 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 3: it was a victory, it didn't feel like one, and 192 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: it's certainly not nearly large enough to actually handle the 193 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 3: scale of the crisis. And so essentially the more radical 194 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: wing of the movement has been winning that fight over 195 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 3: the last year two fights, a strong word, has been 196 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: winning that debate over the last year or two, and 197 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 3: specifically this last summer when the American Federation of Teachers 198 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 3: joined the general strike, which almost no one has heard about, 199 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: but the AFT and their one point seven million members 200 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 3: have already decided that they're going to try and join 201 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 3: the twenty twenty eight general strike. 202 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: So it's not just the UAW anymore. 203 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, But unfortunately we need to take an ad break 204 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: and we come back. You're going to get to that 205 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: because that I think will be looked back as one 206 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: of the pivotal moments of this whole thing that everyone 207 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: kind of just missed when it happened. 208 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: I completely agree, it's going to be amazing. Yeah, okay, 209 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: as unfortunately, and then we'll do it by Gold. We're back. 210 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: I don't fight Gold. 211 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 2: At some point I'm going to write the dope by 212 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 2: Gold episode. 213 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: Do you think this is a joke. 214 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: There is a dope by Gold app I it's big 215 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: worked on in the in the Meal laboratory that the 216 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 2: goldscamera add thing. Okay, back back back to the presence 217 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: or I guess back to the future. I don't know time. 218 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: Time is falling apart here. But let's talk about the AFT. 219 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: The American Federation of Teachers, right, and I don't know 220 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 2: what they've announced in terms. 221 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: Of this, right. 222 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 3: So, the American Federation of Teachers, sort of led by 223 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 3: the Chicago Teachers Union, the Baltimore Teachers Union, and to 224 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 3: a smaller extent, the DC Teachers Union, managed to get 225 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 3: through a resolution at their convention that when you read 226 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 3: the title, it's very boring. 227 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: It's like on aligning with the UAW. 228 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: But when you actually click on the document and you 229 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 3: read it, it is like class struggle fire. Like reading 230 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 3: it from beginning to end, I felt exhilaration, Like I 231 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 3: felt like a fire explode in my heart. 232 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: It was so amazing. 233 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: And I heard about this the same weekend that we 234 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 3: were actually having a climate disaster training in DC. Right, 235 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 3: we had about one hundred leaders from across our movement, 236 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 3: about half of our staff there. And at the beginning, 237 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: people were really excited for climate disaster actions responding to 238 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: moments like this. Actually, but when we talked about victory, 239 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: when we talked about and we're going to have like 240 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 3: mass mobilization against the climate crisis where the whole of 241 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: our society like pitches in to do this, the federal 242 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 3: government like does a World War two style mobilization against 243 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: this destruction, and stuff like that, you could tell that 244 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 3: people didn't see a path. You could tell. 245 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 246 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: And so like this news dropping that the teachers were 247 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 3: joining a general strike, we're joining mass disruption in some 248 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: meaningful way. It hit us like a bomb. It was 249 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 3: the perfect moment for it to hit us, because it 250 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 3: was like, yeah, if the auto workers are going on strike, 251 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: and the academic workers are going on strike and the 252 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 3: teachers are going on strike, then why can't the students 253 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: go on strike? And not only why can't they, but like, 254 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: the students must go on strike. And that was sort 255 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 3: of the moment that really got our movement from yes, 256 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 3: we would like to figure out some sort of different 257 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 3: way to get to the mass disruption needed in order 258 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 3: to win serious action on the climate crisis to like, oh, 259 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: there's a path. Yeah, like we see, we see a path. 260 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 3: It's it's core memory, like if you know, like inside out, 261 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 3: like core memory formed that weekend. 262 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: It was it was beautiful. Yeah, And I think, what's 263 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: you know? 264 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a couple of things that are important here, right, 265 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: but I think it's being underplayed exactly how important it 266 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: is to have teachers unions being into this because the 267 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: thing about teachers unions is that they're an extremely important 268 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 2: lever on labor movement because the way the capitalist society 269 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: is structured, right, is such that most childcare is just 270 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: sort of like all of that labor is basically has 271 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 2: been pushed on the teachers, right. And the moment that 272 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 2: childcare collapses, right, a bunch of people suddenly also who 273 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: are not normally on strike suddenly are not able to 274 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: do their drags because they have they have to find 275 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: some way to take care of their kids. And so 276 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: this is this is sort of a massive leverage point 277 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: and in the same way that like sort of dock 278 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: worker strikes, or I mean not in the same way, 279 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: but like in a sense that a strike by these 280 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: people can shut down way way more labor than just 281 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: theirs directly, right, this is something that's very important. 282 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I never really thought about that. 283 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 3: I've thought about them in the context of like their 284 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 3: sort of community pillars, so like when teachers go on strike, 285 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 3: they often bring way more community support. 286 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: With them than other types of workers. 287 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: But yeah, you're totally right, like outside of like the 288 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 3: community going with them. Also, that is the primary form 289 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 3: of childcare that exists in this country. 290 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's something that like teachers organizers, like she's 291 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: just you, organizers are very big onsot emphasizing because they 292 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: have an enormous amount of social power and it's kind of, 293 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: to a large extent, hasn't been tapped for for the 294 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: kinds of sort of mass political action that we're seeing here. 295 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: Like it's one of those things It's one of those 296 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: sort of leverage points that's always existed, but there hasn't 297 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 2: really been the kind of like political will or momentum 298 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: more sort of organizing capacity to fully mobilize it. And yeah, 299 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: so I guess I want to move from Peter talking 300 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: about Sunrise's involvement in the strike, because I think this 301 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: part is really interesting both in terms of there being 302 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 2: like both of the times of strike support and student strikes. 303 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 2: You can you talk, I guess about the sort of 304 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: politics of student strikes and how you see this fitting 305 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: into the broader thing that's happening. 306 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so the climate movement sort of had the 307 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: height of its power in twenty nineteen. I would say, 308 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: when you had Fridays for Future and like Gretitenberg, climate strikes. 309 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: All across Europe and America. But I would use the 310 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: word strike in quotes because sometimes you had full walkouts, 311 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 3: sometimes you had like those sorts of huge things, but 312 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 3: most of the time it was students asking permission from 313 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 3: authority figures to participate in a rally and things like that, 314 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 3: Whereas in a class struggle context, like a strike is 315 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 3: people going to the authority figure and saying this is 316 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 3: not occurring because we're not going to be here, you know, 317 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 3: Like this has been a critique that's existed inside of 318 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 3: Sunrise like from that period for years now, which was 319 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 3: one of the reasons why we haven't focused on those 320 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 3: sort of tactics as much. But with this sort of moment, 321 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 3: especially if we can bring the teachers along, right, being 322 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 3: able to have students see their authority figures doing this 323 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 3: sort of thing, especially in more conservative areas, while also. 324 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: Teaching them how to do it, because in. 325 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 3: Really meaningful ways, schools are. 326 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: Practice work yep. 327 00:18:55,560 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 3: Like they were directly modeled after factories in the eighteen hundreds, 328 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 3: so schools are modeled after work. So if schools are 329 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 3: practice work, then student strikes can be practice labor organizing, Yeah, 330 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 3: I mean, and turning schools from sort of laboratories for 331 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: the reproduction of the class system into laboratories for learning 332 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 3: class struggle. 333 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: It's something that's very very important, both in the immediate 334 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 2: term and in the longer term. Yeah, we've talked a 335 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: bit about this on other episodes, but like there hasn't 336 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 2: been the kind of like generational passed down of organizing 337 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 2: skills that we've seen in sort of previous generations and 338 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 2: the way honestly, we've talked this, we talk about the 339 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 2: center sort of EUAW staff union episode, right that the 340 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 2: way that a lot of these unions are running their 341 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 2: staff systems also aren't designed to build up like continuous 342 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: momentum for people who learn how to organizing and keep 343 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 2: doing it. And this is a way because it restart 344 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 2: that treadmill to create a generation of organizers both in 345 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 2: this and for the future. 346 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. 347 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 3: And I have had many critiques of my organization, many 348 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: critiques of my movement, but the thing that has always 349 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 3: made me want to like stick around has been seeing 350 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 3: the young organizers who like find themselves here. Like the 351 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 3: primary person who does our press stuff in the movement 352 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 3: is turning eighteen in like three days. 353 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: Wow, they're one of the best organizers. I know. It's 354 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: it's wow, it's inspiring. 355 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 3: But it's something that we I want our movement to 356 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 3: do at scale as opposed to like having something like 357 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 3: that every once in a while, Like you said, the 358 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 3: idea of creating an entire generation, and I'd love to 359 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 3: talk about a sort of thought process and plan around that. 360 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: After the ad break, woo. 361 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 2: Here's some ads when we come back will do things 362 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: that aren't ads question mark ooh we are back, Say 363 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 2: what better add transitions? 364 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: They should raise my salary, Davin back. Awesome. 365 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 3: So one of the things that I think is really 366 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 3: in terms of a like for us, a stable niche 367 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 3: in the movement ecology, is to be sort of a 368 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 3: feeder for radical labor in a sort of way, like 369 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 3: because one of the things is even if you are 370 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 3: radical and you go into the labor movement, oftentimes you 371 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: are going to be taught practices that rely. 372 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: On labor piece in meaningful ways. 373 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, practices that are going to be going to be 374 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 3: really disrupted if labor law weren't a thing and stuff 375 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 3: like that, and it's something that holds back our ability 376 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: to create a strongly organized working class. 377 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: But in the context of schools, right, there is no 378 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: labor law. There is no labor piece in a high school. 379 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 3: Right, So as a place to practice the sort of 380 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: radical class struggle organizing that we're talking about, it's sort 381 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 3: of the perfect place because it's a simplified version of 382 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 3: the workplace of like adult reality. There are obviously many 383 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 3: other like blockages, like students and like young people. Miners 384 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 3: have far far less power and far fewer rights than 385 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 3: you do once you become an adult, and their family 386 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 3: has far more power over them. There are huge barriers. 387 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 3: But in terms of like grounding people in class struggle 388 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 3: labor organizing tactics, I'm thinking of things that you can 389 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,719 Speaker 3: learn about in Jane mclavy's book No Shortcuts and stuff 390 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 3: like that. They can learn how to use structure. 391 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: Tests and. 392 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 3: Use hard organizing conversations in order to build their power 393 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 3: in a specific context and things like that, and whether 394 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 3: or not they actually managed the strike. Right at the 395 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 3: end of it, you have an eighteen year old entering 396 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 3: the workforce who is a skilled, trained class struggle organizer 397 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 3: who has gained their politics completely outside of the context 398 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 3: of labor peace. 399 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that that's one of the important 400 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: aspects of this. And I think that the second one 401 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: is something you were talking about earlier, which is sort 402 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: of bridging the sort of labor ecological divide. And I 403 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: think that's been happening more, which is encouraging because there's 404 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 2: been an enormous effort to make sure this doesn't happen. 405 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we've talked about this on this 406 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: show at some point. 407 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: I know Margarets talked about it on Copleeople this cool stuff. 408 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 2: But I mean one of the most famous science people 409 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 2: tried to do this is a IWWT organized a name 410 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: Jody Berry, and she so legally speaking, we don't know 411 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 2: who killed her. What I will say is that she 412 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 2: was killed by a car bomb that was virtually identical 413 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 2: to a car bomb that was built by the FBI 414 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 2: that was edated by the FBI in their bomb like 415 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: training things like a couple of weeks before. So right, 416 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 2: we Gennie widely don't know who killed her. However, Kamba 417 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,719 Speaker 2: someone someone built a car bomb and blew her up 418 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: in order to stop this from happening. So it is 419 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: something that is right, very very obviously seen by the 420 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: powers that be. 421 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: Is extremely dangerous. 422 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, in the same way that we know exactly the 423 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: singular one person who on his own completely killed Martin 424 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: Luther King with no support from. 425 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: The US government. 426 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And like you know, I think this is 427 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: this is an important moment to strip do this because 428 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 2: one of the things that the right is trying to 429 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 2: do to like capture this sort of like moments of 430 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 2: radical labor has been like oh yeah, all the problems 431 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 2: to the u adow are because the government wasn't fortunate 432 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 2: to make electric cars. It's like, didn't you know there's 433 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: very much like an anti ecological angle to definitely to 434 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: the way that sort of like Republican co option is happening. 435 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 2: It's another thing that we can use a simultaneous tactic 436 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 2: for our side and help defea a co option attempt. 437 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: In addition to this being a way to like take 438 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 3: on the climate crisis in meaningful ways, the climate crisis 439 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 3: is also a way where we can make more radical demands. 440 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 3: This is one of the reasons that I really love 441 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 3: Sunrise and ecological like ecosocialist movements in general, because if 442 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 3: you ask someone to seriously consider how do we address 443 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 3: the climate crisis, and you're not paying them to have 444 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 3: a specific answer, which is nonprofit industrial complex things like, 445 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 3: if you ask someone to seriously consider what do we 446 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 3: need to do in order to address the climate crisis 447 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 3: in six months, you have a radical no matter what. 448 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 3: In my experience, no one who I've ever or like 449 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 3: talk to who has thought about that question seriously for 450 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 3: six months and not avoided it has not come out 451 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 3: the other end being like, oh, we need a general strike, 452 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 3: We need a revolution, you know. Yeah, And so like 453 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 3: being able to bring that exact that exact analysis into 454 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 3: the labor movement I think is one of the things. 455 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: That can bring back radical labor. 456 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 3: You talk to labor leaders who might feel comfortable with 457 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 3: labor peace and they're like, we can do this, we 458 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 3: have time, and you're like, how much time exactly do 459 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 3: we have? Like really think about it. 460 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is something that we've seen. I think 461 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 2: this is sort of a good place to wrap up. 462 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 2: This is something that we've also seen in the way 463 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: that immediate short term disaster response is happening, where yeah, 464 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 2: you know, all of these sort of you have like 465 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 2: millions of people who are like would not show up 466 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: to a mutual aid thing are suddenly like out there 467 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 2: doing mutual aid and have at least temporarily completely restructured 468 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 2: the way this is society works because they're confronted with 469 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: the sort of immediacy of crisis and also the immediacy 470 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: of the fact that the way that we have been 471 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: doing things simply is not actually a functional way to 472 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 2: for example, respond to a hurricane. 473 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's a bridge. 474 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 2: There between the sort of immediacy of this like mutual 475 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 2: laid disaster response politics and the sort of long term 476 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 2: goal of trying to actually like have sustained sensative action 477 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: against the sort of climate devistation. 478 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. 479 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 3: And this is quite a tangent from the specific topic 480 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 3: that we're thinking about. But when I think about democratic 481 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: confederalist politics, like Roseava was able to take power and 482 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 3: have its revolution because the state retreated, and ideally, we 483 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 3: don't have a civil war that causes the state to retreat. 484 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: Ideally, Yeah, one thing we do know will. 485 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 3: Happen and is happening right now, is that the state 486 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 3: retreats during disasters. The state retreats during climate disasters. And 487 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 3: so if we're prepared to take that temporary mutual aid 488 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: structures and jump on them in order to create systems 489 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 3: like what they have in Rosheva and create like build 490 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 3: our labor movements, build our neighborhood power, build our direct 491 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 3: democracy capabilities, and be able to be like, no, we 492 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 3: want to keep these whenever the police come back, whenever 493 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 3: da da da da da. Yeah, Like, there's going to 494 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 3: be devastation, but there's also a lot of opportunities for 495 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 3: creating really really beautiful things. 496 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to close on there's not a 497 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: whole argument as to whether or not whether or not 498 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: Buina venture A Derrudi, who is one of this very. 499 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: Prominent organizers in the Spanish Revolution. 500 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: Ever actually said this, but there was a quote attributed 501 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 2: to him that goes roughly, we're not in the least 502 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: afraid of ruins, Like we are the people who built 503 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: this world and we'll fucking do it again. 504 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: Wow. That's beautiful. Yeah, And I. 505 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 2: Think that's in some sense the attitude that we have 506 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: to be going into this here right of you know, 507 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 2: like the path that we are on now. And this 508 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 2: is true even if a movement takes power that is 509 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 2: dedicated to actually sort of dealing with the climate crisis, right, 510 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 2: the stuff that we have now is normal. This is 511 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 2: just what the future is going to be. There's going 512 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: to be disaster, there's going to be storm, it's going 513 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: to be destruction. But again, fundamentally, like we are the 514 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: people who build this world, and we can build it again. 515 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 2: We're going to have to build it again and we're 516 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 2: going to build it better. 517 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 518 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 3: Actually that makes me think of this one song that 519 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 3: we sing a lot in Sunrise, Like we have a 520 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 3: really big cultural focus on movement song. 521 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: I would really love it if that could be the outro. 522 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, there are more waters rising, the ie I know 523 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 3: the sign I know there are more waters rising the 524 00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 3: side I know. It is a song called More Waters 525 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 3: Rising by Sorrow Lynch, who is a movement musician actually 526 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 3: from Asheville, North Carolina. It's not fully clear to me 527 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 3: right now if they are safe, but we've been singing 528 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 3: this song for many years. 529 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: There are more fires burning the signe I know there 530 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: are more fires burning. They will find it. 531 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 3: It is a song that I think really resonates with 532 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 3: the thing that me and Mia just finished talking about 533 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 3: knowing what's on the horizon, knowing the ruin that we 534 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 3: may face, but also knowing that we're not afraid of 535 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 3: that and that we can get through it. 536 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: I will rebuild the mountains the sign I know. Yeah. 537 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 3: So I hope that you all find the strength with 538 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 3: this song and with these plans to rebuild the mountains. 539 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. Wade through the waters when they find their 540 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: way to me. I will wade through the waters. 541 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 3: The sign o the sign you know, I will wade 542 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 3: through the waters. 543 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: The sign No, it could happen. Here is a production 544 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 545 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out 546 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 547 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: to podcasts. 548 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: You can now find sources for it could happen here, 549 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: listed directly in episode descriptions. 550 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.