1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 2: Starting his own artificial intelligence company. 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 4: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius. 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: Legitimate, he says. 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 4: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 4: be different. 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican. 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 5: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 12 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 5: on him. Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's 13 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 5: done nothing. Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 4: Welcome to Elon Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 4: It's Tuesday, November fifth, Election Day. I'm your host, David Popotopolis. Yes, 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 4: the moment we've all been pining for is finally here. 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 4: Had you asked us just a few months ago, at 18 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 4: the start of the summer, we likely would have scoffed 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 4: at the idea of an entire episode discussing Elon's role 20 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 4: in the election. We knew he'd be a factor, but 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 4: not quite like this. In some ways, it feels like 22 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 4: Elon is on the ballot almost as much as Trump 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 4: or Harris at this point. So we'll discuss everything we've 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 4: seen in recent days. You know, think of it as 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 4: an election night buffet of topics. And to do that, 26 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 4: I'm joined by our three trusted stalwarts, Dana Hall, Max Chafkin, 27 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 4: and Sarah Fryer. Happy Election Day to you all. Dana, 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 4: I'm gonna start with you because when we spoke last week, 29 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 4: you had just arrived in Pennsylvania where you were getting 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 4: an up close look at what's going on there in 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 4: that very important battleground state. What did you see. 32 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so a lot of journalists have focused on turnout 33 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, and I'm just always sort of perennially curious 34 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: about Pittsburgh that has really pivoted from being like this 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: sort of industrial steel town to being a future of 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: AI and robotics. Carnegie Mellon is an incredible source of 37 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: talent for the tech industry. And you know, I had 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: big ambitions of like driving all over western Pennsylvania in 39 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: twenty four hours, and I quickly ran out of time. 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: So I just went to Carnegie Mellon and I interviewed 41 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: young men and that was super illuminating. I found, you know, 42 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: really smart college students who were like listen, you know, 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: Elon Musk has really gone down the rabbit hole, and 44 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: I don't like his algorithm, and I know he's trying 45 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: to like push me into this right wing manisphere and 46 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: I'm not buying it. But I interviewed another student who 47 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: is was at the Business school who said that Musk's 48 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: endorsement of Trump caused him to give Trump a second look. 49 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: He actually went to the second Butler Pennsylvania rally and 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: said that the biggest applause line was when Musk got 51 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: on stage, and that he thinks that Trump was likely. 52 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 4: This is the one Dana where he did all the 53 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 4: jumping around. Is that correct? 54 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: Yes, he jumped And you know, you hear pundits talk 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: a lot about permission structure. I think that Musk's endorsement 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: of Trump has given permission for some people who maybe 57 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: were traditional liberals to think, oh, maybe Trump isn't so bad. 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: But I think that the bigger question is just are 59 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: men going to vote in large numbers? That has been 60 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: the big push of Musk's efforts, And you know, he's 61 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: doing things like going on Joe Rogan on Monday, and 62 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: he keeps hitting on this point that men need to 63 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: turn out because so far we've seen a pretty wide 64 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: gender gap. 65 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 5: The biggest factor here is that men need to vote. 66 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 5: That is the biggest issue. So I don't know what 67 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 5: the reason is, but men just vote at a much 68 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 5: lower rate than women. 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: I think it's like nine percent, right, Someone just told 70 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: me that today. 71 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 5: It's a big difference. And I'm just like saying, there's 72 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 5: a message to the men out there, vote like it lack 73 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 5: depends on it, because I think it does. 74 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 4: Now, Max, this is very true the men of America nowadays. 75 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 4: The data shows we don't go to college, don't vote. 76 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 4: And if women are by and large or by a 77 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 4: large majority are supporting Harris and men by a large 78 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 4: majority are supporting Trump, there's an awful lot riding on 79 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 4: this gambit here. 80 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: Well, and just you know, saying out loud, you realize 81 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: how odd it is as a political strategy. What surprised 82 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: me listening to that Rogan podcast and kind of sort 83 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: of paying attention to what Musk has been doing and 84 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: saying over the past week or two is just the 85 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: lack of effort to sort of broaden the appeal for 86 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, or even pretend like they're trying to broaden 87 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: the appeal. Because you look at what Elon is trying 88 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 2: to do, and he's essentially saying, hey, if you're a 89 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: Tesla fan, if you're a guy who follows me on Twitter, 90 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: you need to vote. The election depends on it. And 91 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 2: you know we've talked on and on in the show 92 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: is just like we don't know how big that world is, 93 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: Like how big is the universe? 94 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 4: I don't know what. Well, Dana just said she's got 95 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: one guy in Pittsburgh who who he must seem to 96 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 4: turn around. So yeah, No, It's like, in other words, 97 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 4: rather than trying to broaden your base and homously, maybe 98 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 4: it is a good strategy to simply say, hey, let's 99 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 4: truly just focus on the base and the people who 100 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 4: have a natural affinity for that movement and really try 101 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 4: to get them to show up at numbers like they 102 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 4: haven't before. 103 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: I yeah, but I think we're talking about two different things. 104 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: Like I think Elon Musk means something to people outside 105 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: of the kind of like Joe Rogan, cat turn manaverse, right, 106 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 2: Like Elon Musk is a successful business person who runs 107 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: the largest automaker by market cap. That means something to 108 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: Trump and the fact that that on that capitalist No, No, 109 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: the fact that this successful capitalist is endorsing Trump like that. 110 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: That is an endorsement that is meaningful to a broader 111 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: universe of people. But that is not the universe that 112 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: Elon Musk by and large has chosen to attack. 113 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 4: Fair Now, Dana, we know, and you know better than 114 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 4: any of us here, that Musk, in his various business enterprises, 115 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 4: loves to make mistakes. And he's done that with great 116 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 4: success at the Tesla's and the SpaceX's and so on 117 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 4: and so on on. He and throwing himself and his 118 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 4: operation into Pennsylvania and these other battleground states. Do you 119 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 4: get the sense that he and his team had enough 120 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 4: time to learn from their mistakes and iterate and run 121 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 4: a successful ground game there. 122 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: Well, we don't really know how successful the ground game 123 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: was because we don't have the results yet. And you know, 124 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: and to be clear, we reached out to the pack 125 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: and like offered to go see their canvasing operation, Like 126 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: I would have loved nothing more than to go door 127 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: to door with these guys for you know, a week, 128 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: But we didn't get any access like that. But there 129 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: has been a lot of reporting that you know, this 130 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: was kind of a fly by night operation. It was 131 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: like Musk got had a lot of money and he 132 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: basically built a startup overnight. And most canvassing operations are 133 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: done by diehard volunteers who are trained. They've got the 134 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: talking points, they go out on turf, they've got iPads, 135 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: they know exactly how many doors to knock, they know 136 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: exactly how many doors that they can knock within like 137 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: a short period of time, and they tend to be 138 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: you know, tired people, college students, like very invigorated volunteers. 139 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: Musk hired people and was paying them like upwards of 140 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: thirty dollars an hour and seemed to be flying people 141 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: from other states to canvas and other operations. And then 142 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: we've read some really good reporting from Wired and elsewhere 143 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: about how you know, these canvassers were like in the 144 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: back of a U haul like you know, stranded, like 145 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: fired at the last minute. I mean, there has not 146 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: been like a sense that this is a particularly well oiled, 147 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: highly trained machine. And so we'll just have to see. 148 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: I mean that said, you know, canvassing, whether it's paid 149 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: or not paid, you know, if you reach voters, and 150 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: if this is a hard fought election where ten thousand 151 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: votes or a thousand votes can make the difference, like 152 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: it still will have an impact. 153 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: What Dan is saying is like this canvassing operation, it's 154 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: unclear if it was effective or not. It doesn't seem 155 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: like they're getting the best return for their dollars, or 156 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: as good a return as they would have gotten, say 157 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: if they had been able to have more time, if 158 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: they had volunteers, like a whole bunch of things. That said, 159 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: the amount of money that Elon Musk has put in 160 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: I didn't look at the latest twenty four hour filing. 161 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: You know, every twenty four hours the pack has report 162 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: how much money they spent. But we're talking about more 163 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: than one hundred and fifty million dollars on the presidential 164 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: election alone from Elon Musk's group. Now, even if your 165 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: dollars are not being spent in the most efficient way possible, 166 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: that is enough, as Dana is saying, to potentially move 167 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: the needle. And so it's just a question of, you know, 168 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: how does that work out. Does the inefficiency of this 169 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: pack outweigh the vast amount of dollars that Elon Musk 170 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: has put into it, or or is it just a 171 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: matter of like they got enough of these of these 172 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: workers and they were able to hit enough doors that 173 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: maybe it'll it'll put them over the top, or it's. 174 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 6: Just that he owns the biggest megaphone for political content 175 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 6: on the Internet and has more than two hundred million 176 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 6: followers there and is just like constantly spewing out election 177 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 6: related content, including conspiracy. Is about whether the vote will count. 178 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 4: As well, And we will get to the role that 179 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 4: X is played in this in a little bit. Sarah, Now, 180 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 4: I guess you know, a couple things jump out of me. 181 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 4: One is I guess we're going to get a bit 182 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 4: of a reveal here in terms of whether the motivation 183 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 4: and the energy that these people, you know, knocking door 184 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 4: to door, you know how much that matters, if at all, 185 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 4: because the outsourced army, paid army versus you know, the 186 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 4: true believers on the Democratic side knocking on those doors. 187 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 4: That's one thing. The other thing is, you know, he's 188 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 4: trying to hire these people at a time when the 189 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 4: unemployment rate nationally and in the state of Pennsylvania is 190 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 4: incredibly low. I mean, the Pennsylvania unemployment rate is three 191 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 4: point four percent. It's not like there's an enormous number 192 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 4: of people just hanging out looking for jobs. So I 193 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 4: think that's perhaps part of what he's run into, which 194 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 4: is an interesting thing. 195 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: We should also say, like, this isn't only an Eon thing. 196 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: This is like a decision that Trump's team basically made 197 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: to essentially outsource aspects of their ground game to third 198 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: party packs, with Elon Musk's being the largest. And so 199 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 2: if Trump's ground game falls short, we're going to look 200 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: back and say, like, that was a poor decision number 201 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: one and number two, Elon Musk, for all of his 202 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: ability to run a successful electric car company, maybe not 203 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: the brightest mind in community organizing. 204 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 4: Right, or that he'll get it right in twenty twenty eight. Alternatively, 205 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 4: if Trump wins Pennsylvania by a good amount, we'll say, well, 206 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 4: perhaps absolutely the outsourcing of ground games is the way 207 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 4: to go going forward, Dana. 208 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: But to be honest, I don't think it's it's actually 209 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: the ground game so much as it is the fact 210 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: that Musk has held a series of town halls across Pennsylvania, 211 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: and he also dangled one million dollar prizes out to 212 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: people who signed his packs petition, and to sign the 213 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: petition you had to be a registered voter in these 214 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: swing states. So now the pack has built this list. 215 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: They've cut million dollar checks to at least fifteen people, 216 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: and it was challenged in court in Philadelphia, but Musk prevailed. 217 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, they've got these voteral 218 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: contact lists, so they're probably doing a lot of like 219 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: texting and calling people versus actual door knocking because now 220 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: they've got this list. And so, you know, for Musk 221 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: has built an apparatus that can serve him going forward. 222 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: And I think that the fact that he himself kind 223 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: of barnstormed across Pennsylvania and as private jet and a 224 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: lot of people who had maybe never seen Musk speak 225 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: in person showed up and they're thinking to themselves, Wow, 226 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: this guy who's a billionaire who's like at the CEO 227 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: of all these companies is endorsing Trump. Like that really 228 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: helps Trump's argument that this is a referendum on the 229 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: economy and inflation and that he's got this businessman by 230 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: his side as his top surrogate. I think that that 231 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: does count a lot. And you know, in the way 232 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: that Kamala Harris is trying to appeal to Republicans by 233 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: campaigning with Liz Cheney, you know, Musk kind of campaigning 234 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: for Trump kind of you know, as I said, like 235 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: opens this permission structure to people who maybe would not 236 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: have voted for Trump otherwise. 237 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. Now on this that million dollar raffle which keeps 238 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 4: coming up again and again here Max, As Dana indicated, 239 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 4: it has apparently been deemed okay for now upon initial 240 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 4: judicial review for now. But we also learned yesterday that 241 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 4: this isn't actually a raffle. 242 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: So two things. One is it wasn't deemed okay. A 243 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: judge failed to grant an injunction to stop it, which 244 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: is not the same thing as saying. 245 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 4: I can't be bothered. Yet. 246 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: Well not I can't be bothered, but I think there 247 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 2: So first of all, the judge didn't give any reasoning, 248 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: so we don't know, but I think there's there's some 249 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: strong arguments against intervening in that we are a day 250 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 2: away from an election, like this is an important Yeah, 251 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: and exactly like the money, most of the money has 252 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: been given out already. But to your point, and this 253 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 2: was pretty funny, so pretty obviously from the outside this 254 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: looked like it was illegal. We talked about this a lot. 255 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 2: The DOJ specifically bans lotteries as a form of financial 256 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: inducement voting, and their defense was this was not a lottery. 257 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: We only pretended it was random. In fact, we were 258 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: choosing people who we thought would be the best spokesperson. 259 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 2: So kind of an embarrassing defense. 260 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 3: So no, But also I would say, pretty clever, clever, 261 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 3: Why well, just because it's suddenly it's not a lottery 262 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: that we're just sort of hiring spokespiece people, we're only 263 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 3: pretending that it was a lottery, now, you know, to 264 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 3: my eye, I don't totally see how that's exculpatory. 265 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: I am not a lawyer, But again, I think there 266 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 2: were reasons for not wanting to intervene here that have 267 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: nothing to do with this argument over whether the America 268 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: Pack Elon Musk's pack was completely honest with It's with 269 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: the people who were signing this petition. 270 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 4: Sarah, I want to come to you and talk about 271 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 4: X and how Elon and co. Have been using it 272 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 4: to start preparing for what comes tonight after the votes 273 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 4: you know, have been counted at all. What have you 274 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 4: been seeing in recent days and weeks. 275 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 6: There It's really just been a place for or must 276 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 6: to set the stage to help challenge the results should 277 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 6: they not be in Trump's favor. There's a lot of 278 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 6: talk of voter fraud. A common line of his is 279 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 6: that the Democrats are busting in or flying in undocumented 280 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 6: immigrants to vote on the Democrat's behalf, which is, of course, 281 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 6: there's no evidence to back that up. 282 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 4: That is coming from Musk himself, or that is coming. 283 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 6: From Musk himself and also amplified, but he has said 284 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 6: that explicitly. He's actually tweeted I'm looking at the numbers 285 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 6: right now thirteen hundred times at least in twenty twenty 286 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 6: four about voter fraud and immigration in how the two 287 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 6: are linked. So this is something he's obsessed about, the 288 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 6: idea that immigrants are coming to this country to really 289 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 6: recovoc on the election and steal the future away from 290 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 6: from the Trump crowd. 291 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 4: What else are you seeing on that platform as it 292 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 4: relates to the election? 293 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 6: I you know, I'm also I'm a little surprised because 294 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 6: I thought that Musk might just use it as like 295 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 6: a megaphone for just Trump. And I'm also seeing a 296 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 6: lot of political content in general. I'm seeing just a 297 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 6: ton of election related posts of viral things, memes. It 298 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 6: is kind of a free for all. There's a lot 299 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 6: of conspiracy. There's a lot of debunked claims already. Community 300 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 6: notes can't keep up communityos is. There is the crowdsource 301 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 6: fact checking service that they have on xch just like 302 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 6: basically their only line of defense against misinformation, can't keep 303 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 6: up with the chaos. Musk himself is engaging in a 304 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 6: lot of the you know, just asking questions sort of 305 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 6: rhetoric about how the election is playing out. I'm also 306 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 6: seeing a lot of interesting ties in with the crypto world. 307 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 6: We're seeing a lot of a lot of folks citing 308 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 6: Polymarket and the odds there which showed Trump far ahead 309 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 6: of Kamala Harris, as evidence that he is he is 310 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 6: definitely going to win. There's some concerns that he might 311 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 6: use that as an evidence that he was supposed to 312 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 6: win and that he didn't. If he doesn't win, he 313 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 6: may still win. 314 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, he certainly may win. He also certainly may lose. 315 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 4: I would say those who are reading a lot or 316 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 4: anything into Polymarket should should do so with great caution. 317 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 4: That is a market, the gambling market, which I know 318 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 4: a little bit about, that remains pretty a liquid and 319 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 4: pretty random and something that could be driven and distorted 320 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 4: by large bets made by a handful of people. There 321 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 4: is obviously supposed to be a wisdom of the crowd 322 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 4: effect when you get people putting money on an outcome 323 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 4: of something I just don't know, Max that the crowd 324 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 4: is very wise, and so saying that because these markets 325 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 4: show Trump sixty comma of forty, you know, that's pretty 326 00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 4: much apropos of nothing. 327 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 328 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 329 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: And the thing about poly market and these betting markets, 330 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: I think that like the sophisticated participants sort of know 331 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: what's up. But what I was going to say is 332 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 2: that I think it's how they're being used, and like 333 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: that's what Sarah saying, Like it's being used along with 334 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: like a handful of other more than a handful many 335 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 2: other data points, many of which are questionable, to create 336 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: a narrative of inevitability, which, you know, I suppose it 337 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 2: could be helpful in terms of keeping sort of pull 338 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: like Trump volunteers and people were working for the campaign motivated. 339 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: It also feels like it's not necessarily helpful ahead of 340 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: the election. You kind of want your voters to feel 341 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 2: like there's like they're not winning so that they actually 342 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 2: go out and participate. What it actually seems more about 343 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: is again using creating a narrative that will allow Musk 344 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: and Trump to to dispute the results of the election 345 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: should Trump lose. And we've seen, you know, lots and 346 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: lots of content from Musk already in this vein. They're 347 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 2: putting out a lot of sort of misleading numbers around 348 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 2: the early vote, a lot of numbers that if you 349 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: are not paying super close attention, you're going to be 350 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: very surprised tomorrow if you wake up and Donald Trump 351 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: is not with doesn't have a clear lead. 352 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 6: This isn't just implied, this is explicit. They're going out 353 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 6: and saying, if we lose, it will be because of fraud. 354 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 6: And we had a reporter at that Butler rally that 355 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 6: Must showed up at and he talked to she talked 356 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 6: to a bunch of Trump supporters who said, oh, yeah, 357 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 6: you know, if Trump loses, it's definitely because of the 358 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 6: because of the immigrants. So they have the narrative all 359 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 6: set up to contest the results should they not be 360 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 6: in in Musk's favor. 361 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 4: One of the other interesting things we've seen on X 362 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 4: and heard on X are ads that feel like, in 363 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 4: some ways there's much about elon as they are about Trump. 364 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 4: Let's listen to one. 365 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 5: Now, this is the most important election of our lifetime. 366 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 5: Pennsylvania is lynchpin in this election. The things we all 367 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 5: want our Tom and Senz thinks, secure border, safe city, 368 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 5: sensible spending so that we don't have crazy inflation, freedom 369 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 5: of speech. We want the Constitution to be upheld, the 370 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 5: fundamental values that main America what it is today. If 371 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 5: there's ever a time to be a pest with your 372 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,719 Speaker 5: friends and family, this is the time to get them 373 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 5: to votion. 374 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: Immediately fight fighty f. 375 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: This is a podcast, so people didn't see it, but 376 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 2: it's mostly images of Musk, although there is like a 377 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: half second image of Donald Trump in that exceedingly long 378 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: montage of elon Musk sound bites. 379 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 4: Now, it strikes me Dan that there is a slight 380 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 4: risk here, And I think this is actually a narrative 381 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 4: that's growing and it's gaining and momentum. This idea that 382 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 4: there is a lose lose possibility here from us where 383 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 4: Trump does lose and then is so infuriaty turns around 384 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 4: and blames Musk for the loss. I guess the one 385 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 4: issue with this theory is it means that Trump would 386 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 4: accept his defeat or acknowledge his defeat, but he would 387 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 4: pin it on Musk. And in this scenario, as it goes, 388 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 4: Musk has managed to alienate both the left and the right. 389 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be a masterful gambit. I mean a 390 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: lot of people are just sort of stunned that, you know, 391 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: Musk that is just so all in on Trump, and 392 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: but that's sort of the way he's always been, right, 393 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: Like he he has very high risk tolerance, all chips 394 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: on the table. You know, when you grow up wealthy 395 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: and you make your first millions before you're thirty, like 396 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: you're just able to do. You know, you just have 397 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: like a sort of risk tolerance that nobody else has. 398 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: And I think that Musk fundamentally believes that he's in 399 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: the right here. I mean he's talking very much, you know, 400 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: I mean I joke a little bit that he's q 401 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: Alon because in his telling of it, you know, he 402 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: has now seen the light and he sees what's really 403 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: happening and how the mainstream medium manipulates facts. And he's 404 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: sort of speaking like, you know, he used to be 405 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: left wing, but now he's seeing the light, and now 406 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: he's seeing things for the way things really are, and 407 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: that kind of rhetoric is really is really dangerous because 408 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: so many of his fans are now following him down 409 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: the rabbit hole. And at the same time, a lot 410 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: of longtime Tesla owners are just furious. I mean they're like, 411 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: what the hell happened? Like I used to believe in 412 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: this guy because I care deeply about climate change and 413 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: the plan is on fire. And now he's endorsing and 414 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: campaigning with a guy who's all about drill, baby drill 415 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: and like doesn't believe in science, Like what happened to him? 416 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: And it is a double risk where you know, he 417 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: could alienate alienate all of the customers who helped the 418 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 1: company become the great company that it is. Future employees, 419 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: I think that the whole talent pool is really in question. 420 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of incredible engineers and 421 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: women in tech who are gonna think twice about maybe 422 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: working at one of his companies going forward. 423 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: There's a reason why most CEOs don't do this right, 424 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 2: Like it's there are a lot of downside risks. Not 425 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 2: only the downside risk where if if Trump loses, he 426 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 2: blames elon and you know, but also even if Trump wins, right, 427 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 2: there's going to be a reaction on the left. That 428 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 2: reaction arguably is going to be a lot stronger than 429 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: it would be if Harris won, So he could hurt there, 430 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: you know, clearly, like putting your own face in the 431 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: ad for Trump is not necessarily the best move, like politically, 432 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: But I. 433 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 6: Do think I do think it has I do think 434 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 6: it really has influenced the other CEOs though You've seen 435 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 6: Jeff Bezos decide to not do any endorsing the Washington Post. 436 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 6: You've seen Mark Zuckerberg shy away from a lot of 437 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,959 Speaker 6: the bold election rhetoric that he used to have around 438 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 6: the integrity of democracy and protecting the country from violence. 439 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 6: That we haven't we haven't heard any of that. 440 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 4: So you're saying they're doing that though because of the 441 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 4: position that Musk has staked out, or well. 442 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 6: It's totally it's giving them permission to to not take 443 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 6: a stand on anything. 444 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 4: Or is it not just fear of Trump? 445 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 2: It's both, right, I mean it could be both. 446 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, but look at X. I mean, Twitter was a 447 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 6: partner in resolving election threats with Meta. They used to 448 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 6: share a lot of intel on problems, triangulate accounts, work 449 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 6: together to take things down faster when they saw something 450 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 6: bubbling up. Now, you know, my sources tell me folks 451 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 6: from companies or from the government send tips to X 452 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 6: on things that should be taken down. They don't hear back. 453 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 6: So you know, one of the big pieces of the puzzle, 454 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 6: the digital water cooler for politics is just kind of 455 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 6: completely warped and lowered the bar really for responsibility online. 456 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: I have thought another thought, which is that I feel 457 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: like all of the people that I used to follow 458 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: on X are now over on Blue Sky. And I've 459 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: to admit that I was very lazy about like migrating 460 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: to another social media platform. I like looked at threads, 461 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: I looked at masted on, I looked at Speutable, I 462 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: looked at Blue Sky, but I never really felt like 463 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: there was a critical mass of like where are my 464 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: people at? But I definitely feel like Blue Sky is 465 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: gaining moment and I think it's because of this new 466 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: block function on X that musk has now changed, like 467 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: you can no longer really block people. But also just 468 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: people are like locking their accounts and like saying goodbye. 469 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: So it'll be just really interesting to see if that 470 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: migration ever actually gains critical mass. 471 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: I think it's like it's a mistake to see X 472 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: as dying, and I think we many people kind of 473 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: wrote obituaries for this service. It's value plummeted. Obviously a 474 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: lot of influential people left, but like it is very 475 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: vital on the right, and you know that that isn't it. 476 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 2: That's a big media ecosystem. I think we need to 477 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,719 Speaker 2: start thinking about the possibility that like Twitter, as much 478 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: as it was a business failure, was a huge political. 479 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 4: Absolutely, it has become I think the political arm of 480 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 4: Elon Musk and to a certain extent of Republican Party. 481 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 4: And I think we're going to have to start work 482 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 4: or stop worrying about the dollars and cents, because while 483 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 4: the backer has two hundred billion, give or take, he 484 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 4: will just keep footing the bill and if it loses money, 485 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 4: it loses money. It's just this political arm of his. Now. 486 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: I guess if his broader empire were suddenly to find 487 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 4: itself in trouble, then okay, so to do X. But 488 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 4: in the meantime, this is what it's become. 489 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: I mean, spare thought for the bankers who who left 490 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 2: him many billions of dollars and are probably cringing a 491 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: little bit to hear that. I don't think they realized 492 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: they were funding a political project. 493 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 4: No, it turns out they were. They didn't either for sure, 494 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 4: but you know it is true they did not realize that. 495 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 4: Having said that, Musk has made all the interest payments 496 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 4: to them to date, and so I guess as long 497 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 4: as they're getting their payments, they are happy. Very final 498 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 4: question for the three of you as we wrap here, 499 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 4: how will you be following the election tonight? In addition 500 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 4: to a course on the Bloomberg you know, Bloomberg dot com. 501 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 4: Are you on X or Blue Sky Max? I don't answer, 502 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 4: it's too upciting. 503 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 6: This is something that you know, when it's your job 504 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 6: to follow the election. It's a very very different kind 505 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 6: of of procedure than it's been in past years. A 506 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 6: lot of the transparency that the platforms used to have 507 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 6: about what was going viral and what was trending and 508 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 6: what posts were getting the most most attention, that's all 509 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 6: fallen by the wayside that we're pretty much flying blind. 510 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 6: So I'm a little concerned. 511 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 4: You're concerned. 512 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 6: There as a lot of platforms, not a lot of 513 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 6: places to see what's trending, and everyone has a different 514 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 6: version of highly personalized entertainment that is driving what they 515 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 6: perceive to be reality. 516 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: Dan, I just feel like the Internet tonight is not 517 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: the place to be. I highly recommend that. 518 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 4: The Bloomberg terminal in Bloomberg dot com. 519 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: Get offline, go for a walk, clean your house, talk 520 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: to a friend. I'm in like text messages with a 521 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: bunch of folks, and I just don't think that the 522 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: Internet is going to be the place to actually find 523 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: out what's really going on. I think you're gonna get 524 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: You're just gonna be a wash in triggering disinfo, like 525 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, designed by the algorithm to make you upset, 526 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: regardless of your political affiliation. And it's just not going 527 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: to be a helpful place to be. 528 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 2: That's sensible as a civics like a civics advice, but 529 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 2: I mean I will be looking very closely at specifically 530 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: what Elon Musk says and this kind of larger influence 531 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: of kind of Elon supporting actors and comparing it to 532 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 2: the conversation say on cable news, and to what the 533 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 2: candidates themselves are saying, and to what the data actually 534 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: says and I think we're I think there are going 535 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 2: to be gulfs because we've been following Elon for a 536 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 2: long time and it's important to be aware of that. 537 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 4: All should be revealed soon enough when they can't start 538 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 4: counting the votes. Max, Sarah Dana, thank you very much. 539 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you so much. 540 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 4: Great to be here. This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. 541 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 4: Anna Maserracus is our editor, Rayhan Harmanci our senior editor. 542 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 4: The idea for this very show also came from Rayhan Blake, 543 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 4: Maples handles engineering, and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising 544 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 4: producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Inc. Theme is written 545 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 4: and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendan Francis 546 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 4: Neenham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman as the 547 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 4: head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to 548 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 4: our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadopolis. 549 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 4: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 550 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 4: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.