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Speaker 1: Warning today's episode candid spoilers for season four of The Boys. Hello,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jason Getzepsio and I'm rosday Night, and

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Extradition, the podcast where we dive deep

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. Coming

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Speaker 1: to you from my Heart podcast where we're bringing you

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Speaker 1: to action packed episodes a week Tuesdays and Thursdays.

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Speaker 2: In today's action packed episode, in the previously on, we're

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Speaker 2: covering all the news you missed from Comic Con that

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Speaker 2: wasn't about Robert Downey Jr. Playing Dr Doom. And in

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Speaker 2: the airlock, we're sharing our reactions to The Boys season four,

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Speaker 2: what worked, what didn't, and where the story goes from here.

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Speaker 2: We know you guys have wanted to hear our thoughts

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Speaker 2: on it, so here it.

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Speaker 1: Is first Previously on First Up. It's a new d

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Speaker 1: logo for DC's Studios. It was unveiled at Comic Con.

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Speaker 1: This is an updated version of kind of the classic

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Speaker 1: DC logo with the stars. James Gunn, co head of

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Speaker 1: DC Studios, as quoted as saying, quote, when Peter and

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Speaker 1: I formed DC Studios, we immediately knew what logo we

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Speaker 1: wanted to use. So listen, they're in a line wide

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Speaker 1: rebrand and this is part of it.

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Speaker 2: Yep, I love it. It's known as the DC bullet logo,

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Speaker 2: created by Mill and Glazer, who also designed that I

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Speaker 2: Love New York logo, was used from nineteen seventy seven

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Speaker 2: to two thousand and five, and I will say on

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Speaker 2: the show floor of San Diego Comic Con, everyone was like,

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Speaker 2: why did it take this long? They were like, bring

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Speaker 2: that logo back. That's what we all wanted. I will

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Speaker 2: say as well, looks like maybe they're gonna start putting

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Speaker 2: it back on the comics too. We saw the DC

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Speaker 2: staff were all wearing it on their T shirts at

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Speaker 2: the DC booth after this announcement, So yeah, lovely to

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Speaker 2: see it back. This is probably one of the most

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Speaker 2: iconic comic book logos of all time. James Gunn once

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Speaker 2: again showing his love for the comics that have inspired

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Speaker 2: the movies we will be seeing from him from twenty

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Speaker 2: five onwards.

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Speaker 1: Next, we got a bunch of interesting details trickling out

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Speaker 1: from Thunderbolt and the upcoming Captain America Brave New World.

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Speaker 1: Mainly among them, I think probably the headline news bit

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Speaker 1: here is in the New Captain of America movie g

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Speaker 1: and Carlo Esposito will play Sidewinder. Yes, wow, Society, you're

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Speaker 1: of the Serpent Society. I wonder if we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: the rest of the Serpent Society in there. But that's

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting.

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Speaker 2: I think so. And I think there had been a

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Speaker 2: lot of rumors about Diamondback being in the film, but

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Speaker 2: then it seemed like they'd cut diamond Back out, so

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Speaker 2: it wasn't sure whether the Serpent Society were going to

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Speaker 2: be in it. But I think this is really cool.

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Speaker 2: They've been wanting to through Serpent Society for a long

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Speaker 2: time in the MCU. I think the original Captain America

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Speaker 2: Civil War title was Serpent Society before they decided to

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Speaker 2: move in the direction of adapting that classic comic. I

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Speaker 2: think this is really cool, and he's said that he

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Speaker 2: is going to be He had teased that his character

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Speaker 2: was going to be able to have its own series,

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Speaker 2: So I think that this leads to more Serpent Society

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Speaker 2: and interesting to see if they bring people over from

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Speaker 2: the Nick then the Luke Cage series, because we did

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Speaker 2: get some versions of them there. But yeah, I thought

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Speaker 2: this was pretty cool reveal. I will say Nick had

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Speaker 2: actually been bothering me to say that. He that that

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Speaker 2: was who he was going to be playing because he

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Speaker 2: had guessed from the costume and I kept forgetting Yeah yeah, yeah, no.

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Speaker 2: In my house, he has been saying this for like

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Speaker 2: two months and I completely forgot to mention it. And

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Speaker 2: so he was like, now you have to tell people

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Speaker 2: I said it, and I was like, you did. He

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Speaker 2: had guessed this like so long of go, and uh yeah,

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Speaker 2: when they announced it to San Diego, he was like,

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Speaker 2: see it was those of the costume. He saw it

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Speaker 2: from the costume. But yeah, another thing, big news for me.

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Speaker 2: In the new trailer, we do see Harrison Ford as

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Speaker 2: President Ross discussing the appearance of Tiamut from the eternals

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Speaker 2: in the Indian Ocean, and of course as well news. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's a big deal and bigger news for everyone else.

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Speaker 2: We also talk about the discovery of Adamantium in this trailer,

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Speaker 2: so there's a lot. There's a lot going on there.

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Speaker 1: Tiamutt, of course, is the huge eternal corpse that is

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Speaker 1: just hanging.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the celestial that's just been and everyone's been like,

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Speaker 2: what's going on with that? Is that?

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Speaker 1: What's going on with that?

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Speaker 2: And they did here, so good for them, and.

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Speaker 1: Then the comics. Of course, this becomes the new headquarters

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Speaker 1: of the Avengers.

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Speaker 2: Which deefinitely feels like, what's going to happen here, right?

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Speaker 1: Because somebody bought Avengers Tower. Another little tidbit that leaked

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Speaker 1: out of sc DC was sde CC was that we're

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Speaker 1: gonna find out who bought Avengers Towers. Well, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: will say, I've been looking. I just pulled up some

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Speaker 1: screenshots from the trailer and shouts to Nick because like,

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Speaker 1: basically all that links in my mind. Jack Carlo gian

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Speaker 1: Carlo's like outfit to Sidewinder is just like the Tan college.

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Speaker 2: Dude, I'm wearing a.

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Speaker 1: Regular like black jaggo with like a tan collar.

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Speaker 3: And he has been saying it for like weeks, and

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Speaker 3: he's been like, bring it out. You should just say

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Speaker 3: it on the podcast, say he's gonna be Sidewinder, and

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Speaker 3: every time I would forget, And then finally when it

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Speaker 3: was announced that San Diego, he was like, Okay, you

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Speaker 3: got to Now you just gotta be like, this is

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Speaker 3: what happened, and it's true.

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Speaker 2: I've been hearing it. He was the only person who

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Speaker 2: guessed it, and that is the skill of the amazing

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Speaker 2: comic book knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Up next, we got a new trailer for Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings season two.

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Speaker 2: Wow, with a.

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Speaker 1: Shot of she Lob, the massive spider from a Return

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Speaker 1: of the King. I IP, this looks great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of creatures. If you're a creatures creature guy,

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Speaker 2: we see the Boo Rog, we see ents or potentially

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Speaker 2: ent wives. We see Shalob. I wrote an article at

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Speaker 2: IGN during Comic Con about the creatures because I love

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Speaker 2: a good creature. But also, we are really seeing the

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Speaker 2: rise of sourn here, So if that's your what you

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Speaker 2: wanted to see, we get to see him in his

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Speaker 2: anatar vibes where he's the giver of gifts. He's got

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Speaker 2: a long blonde wig on. They definitely put some money

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Speaker 2: into the wig budget of this show this season. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it's it looks really fun. We were we were

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Speaker 2: fans of Rings of Power, and I think it's gonna

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Speaker 2: be really interesting to see where it goes in season two.

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Speaker 1: Next up, we got a new trailer another new trailer

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Speaker 1: for HBO and Max's new Penguin series, uh with I

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Speaker 1: think the big reveal here is that Kristin Miliotti will

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Speaker 1: play the daughter of my boss Falcone, Sofia Falcone.

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Speaker 2: They do a great introduction here where we see very

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Speaker 2: clearly that Oswald is scared of her, and he says

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Speaker 2: to oh, I thought you were still and she says,

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Speaker 2: what in Arkham? And then they show her in Arkham

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Speaker 2: like smashing someone's head in with her own kind of

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Speaker 2: neck chain that they have her and and then she goes, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: didn't you know, I'm reformed, And it's this really good moment.

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Speaker 2: I love Kristin Miliotti. Sofia Falcone is like a really

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Speaker 2: great character in the comics, and this is definitely giving

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Speaker 2: long Halloween esque vibes. So yeah, we get they're giving

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Speaker 2: a lot of push to the penguin and they're kind

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Speaker 2: of saying it's going to be this Scarface esque story.

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Speaker 2: He wants that power, and I'm excited to see it.

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Speaker 2: I like the idea. I think they're officially calling it

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Speaker 2: now the Batman Epic crime Story or something. I feel

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Speaker 2: like they could have left out the word epic, but still,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be part of this kind of

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Speaker 2: Matt Reeves Batman universe that exists alongside the Superman kind

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Speaker 2: of DCU that James Gunn is creating, and I think

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Speaker 2: they're aiming to make more spin offs and more stuff

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Speaker 2: coming out of it. And I understand why because that

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Speaker 2: movie was fantastic. And yeah, I love Krista Miliotti and

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Speaker 2: I love Psychotic Women. I support women's rights and wrongs,

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Speaker 2: and I will be supporting her wrongs in this movie.

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Speaker 2: And it's great watching the trailer because it's really great

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Speaker 2: to see how scared Osward clearly is of her. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: now is she going to be antagonist ally? I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but it looks like this is only taking place like

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Speaker 2: a week after what happened in The Batman, So definitely

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Speaker 2: going to be very interesting to see, and it comes

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Speaker 2: out September nineteenth, so we don't have long to wait.

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Speaker 1: My favorite part is there the little intro by Colin Ferrell,

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Speaker 1: who of course is wearing incredible process detic makeup and

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Speaker 1: wardrobe as the penguin complete, you know, transformation to look

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Speaker 1: like mister Cobblepot. But the little intro, it's like the

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Speaker 1: very handsome Colin Farrell wearing like Gandolf's sweater and va.

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Speaker 2: He's looking more slender than ever.

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Speaker 1: He's looking more like maybe for a role or something.

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Speaker 1: He looks very slim right now. Yeah, that was just

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Speaker 1: such an incredible truxpast. And finally a new trailer for

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Speaker 1: a Creature Commandos, new animated DC series that will appear

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Speaker 1: on HBO and Max.

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Speaker 2: And this is going to be really cool. This is

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Speaker 2: connected to James Gunn's universe. We know that characters who

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Speaker 2: are voice actors who are voicing characters in this, like

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Speaker 2: Rick Flagg Senia voice by Frank Grio. Frank Grio will

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Speaker 2: also be playing that character in peace Maker season two.

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Speaker 2: I believe they're gonna have this kind of crossover of

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Speaker 2: voice acting and live action acting. Very interesting. Animation looks great,

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Speaker 2: no surprises because DC is like really really good at

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Speaker 2: doing animation. It is essentially like a what if Universal

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Speaker 2: Monsters were in the Suicide Squad? I would say that's

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Speaker 2: like the baseline. I did an explainer at DC dot

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Speaker 2: com a while back about the original comics, which are

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Speaker 2: actually really heartbreaking and definitely very much in the more

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Speaker 2: anti war kind of mindset of the seventies when they

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Speaker 2: came out. So it's gonna be very interesting to see

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Speaker 2: Viola Davis. She's there as Amanda Waller again doing that

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Speaker 2: crossover between these two animated and live action words. And

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Speaker 2: if you've ever wanted to see Frankenstein and the Bride

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Speaker 2: of Frankenstein like in a badass superhero war movie kind

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Speaker 2: of vibe, then you will probably the show's that's what

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Speaker 2: it looks like it's gonna be, and it looks really cool.

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Speaker 1: Up next, The Boys Season four yea, And now we're

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Speaker 1: stepping out of the airlock to quickly recap and then

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Speaker 1: mostly discuss our thoughts on season four of The Boys

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Speaker 1: on Amazon Prime Video. Should we try and recap it

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Speaker 1: like mostly from memory? Let's see we can try and

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Speaker 1: piece it together together. Okay, So the Boys set off

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Speaker 1: on a mission to assassinate Victoria Newman. Butcher is struggling

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Speaker 1: with his V induced tumor that is growing in his

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Speaker 1: brain at an alarming kind of.

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Speaker 2: Like V dementia or something like it's going badly, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And meanwhile, Homelander is kind of disappointed with the quality

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Speaker 1: of ideas and feedback that he's getting for within the seven,

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Speaker 1: which is.

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Speaker 2: He's a yes man. This is like sick.

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Speaker 1: Is that a surprise when every time you get a

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Speaker 1: little bit of pushback, you just fucking laser read someone's head. Off,

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Speaker 1: come on, but Homelander's upset, and so they bring in Sage,

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Speaker 1: the smartest person in the entire world to uh and Homelander,

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Speaker 1: I think credit to him actually gives her latitude to

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Speaker 1: like push back on him and despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: he is uncomfortable and that's that's an understatement with some

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Speaker 1: of her ideas and direction basically lets her do what

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Speaker 1: she needs to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she is definitely like in the she seems

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Speaker 2: like she's in the same mindset of him, of kind

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Speaker 2: of inciting this public violence, and she's not afraid for

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Speaker 2: people to judge her. But as we will learn, she

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Speaker 2: is also like a very complex character who has her

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Speaker 2: own agenda.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Starlighter, her movement is growing. She's becoming this kind

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Speaker 1: of focus point for people who want to see more guidelines,

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Speaker 1: more morality from the superhero community. The boys also start

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Speaker 1: investigating some of the more really really insane, like right wing,

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Speaker 1: far right wing members of the superhero superhero community, including

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Speaker 1: one fire Cracker.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Firecracker is actually being recruited by Sage that's

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Speaker 2: right to kind of come to the seven at something

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Speaker 2: called truth con So at this point we should also

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Speaker 2: mention that with these first episodes of The Boys deb

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Speaker 2: again a very strange and weird, toxic discourse about how,

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Speaker 2: oh no, the Boys is anti right wing, The Boys

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Speaker 2: is against Trump, and it was like, guys, if you

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Speaker 2: didn't know that by now, you haven't been paying attention.

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Speaker 2: But it is made very textual in this series, and

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Speaker 2: that has long driven the discourse behind The Boys season four.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Huey is dealing with a lot of personal turmoil.

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Speaker 1: His father is ill on the brink of death, and

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Speaker 1: Huey makes the pretty unwise decision. I think in the moment,

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Speaker 1: like even in the moment, you're like, what the fuck

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Speaker 1: are you doing to try and save his life by

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Speaker 1: injecting him with v this ghost. Don't do that. This

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Speaker 1: goes bad in exactly the way you imagine it going

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Speaker 1: bad with Huey Senior, who is essentially like now a

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Speaker 1: superpowered like man with dementia, unable to like, unable to

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Speaker 1: like con his powers, control his emotions, or really understand

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Speaker 1: like anything that's going on. That is a whole terrible thing. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the Boys learn about a supervirus that can take down soups.

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Speaker 1: They go to investigate it and they find that there's

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Speaker 1: the virus had been tested on farm animals that were

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Speaker 1: injected with v they have to fight all these like

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Speaker 1: superpowered sheep and stuff.

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Speaker 2: A high light I will say also as well, this

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Speaker 2: for me is one of the biggest failings of this show.

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Speaker 2: I was a huge fan of gen V. I thought

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Speaker 2: they did a really great job of essentially setting up

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Speaker 2: what I assumed would be the major conflict during this season,

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Speaker 2: which is the superpowered virus that we found out, you know,

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Speaker 2: could kill soups. That was essentially gonna it seemed like

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Speaker 2: gonna be released specifically to kill them, and that would

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Speaker 2: have to be something I feel like that did not,

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Speaker 2: even though we do get some gen characters here in

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Speaker 2: really my opinion, just like heartbreaking situations there. I love,

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Speaker 2: I love my children, and I hate to see them

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Speaker 2: turning to the bad side. But I did not feel

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Speaker 2: like it necessarily completely delivered on that setup. And I

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Speaker 2: understand that might be a season five thing, but for me,

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Speaker 2: I thought that was a missed opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, a train is continuing to leak information to the

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Speaker 1: boys and is drawn further and further into an alliance

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Speaker 1: with the boys and actually starts, you know, physically helping

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Speaker 1: them with certain things, including a showdown with the Deep

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Speaker 1: and Black Noir.

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Speaker 2: We also get like the there's some I guess then

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Speaker 2: we're getting into the issue that is like the episode

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Speaker 2: that I think was like the most controversial episode, which

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Speaker 2: is the Tech Night.

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Speaker 1: So let's okay, let's talk about that. Yeah, So the boys,

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Speaker 1: looking to get more intel, send Hughie, although they kind

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Speaker 1: of don't want to do it, send Huey in disguise

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Speaker 1: as web weaver into tech Night, and uh, tech Night

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Speaker 1: is then, you know, it's this gathering of power players,

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Speaker 1: technology focused and Huey gets drawn into the sex dungeon

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Speaker 1: of this Peter Thiel type figure where he is you know,

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Speaker 1: basically sexually assaulted.

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Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, with the and the understanding is

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Speaker 2: that web We've knew about this web, We even knew

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Speaker 2: he had to go through this to become you know,

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Speaker 2: part of Tech Night's you know, little crew, horrible crew.

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Speaker 2: This is something but Huey did not And there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of weird kink stuff here. There's a lot of weird,

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Speaker 2: like gross kind of stuff and it is played for laughs,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of audiences members rightly kind of felt

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Speaker 2: like it was actually quite a grotesque thing that he

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Speaker 2: went through, and that should have been maybe played with

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Speaker 2: a little bit more sensitivity too, Hughie and the experience

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Speaker 2: he went through, rather than it just being like lo,

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Speaker 2: all this stuff happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah to me, I think what made it, what exacerbated

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Speaker 1: the issue, is comments by I think it was Cripke, right,

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Speaker 1: one of the showrunners, Eric Kripke. Cripkey was quoted in

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Speaker 1: Varieties ing quote, well, that's a dark way to look

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Speaker 1: at it. We view it as hilarious when it was

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Speaker 1: when it was brought up to him that this isn't

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Speaker 1: this a sexual assault? And I think, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that certainly compounded the issue. On top of the

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Speaker 1: kind of obvious like tone problem. I think this rubbed

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Speaker 1: a lot of people the wrong way, and that's certainly

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Speaker 1: a fair response to have.

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Speaker 2: I also, I also think that's really interesting because years ago,

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Speaker 2: when The Boys first started, I interviewed Eric Kripkey at

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Speaker 2: The Hollywood Reporter all about how do you adapt that

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Speaker 2: very famous, infamous sequence in the comic where Starlight is

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Speaker 2: essentially gang raped and it's played for laughs? And I

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Speaker 2: was like, how do you do that? And he said,

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Speaker 2: we bring in a writer's room, like I had women

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Speaker 2: at every stage. I knew that we couldn't adapt it

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Speaker 2: in the way that it had been. We needed to

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Speaker 2: make it like a statement on the kind of things

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Speaker 2: that happened to women and these abuses of power. So

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Speaker 2: I feel like I was really shocked to see someone

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Speaker 2: who I have lauded since then as being incredibly thoughtful

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Speaker 2: on the matter, just being like, oh, we thought it

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Speaker 2: was hilarious. And I think there's an interesting thing to

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Speaker 2: be said there about one, the way that we perceive

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Speaker 2: men who are survivors of sexual abuse, and I think

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Speaker 2: that that is like a subconscious thing. And two, I

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Speaker 2: would also say my my editor at IGN, Amelia Emberwing,

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Speaker 2: who is really just a fantastic editor and writer. She

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Speaker 2: wrote a great piece after the Huey's Dad kind of

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Speaker 2: storyline where in the end you end up with Huey

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Speaker 2: having to kill his own dad, and she wrote a

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Speaker 2: great piece that was basically like, why is the show

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Speaker 2: obsessed with torturing hue Like what is it about this

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Speaker 2: character where they just continue And that was before we'd

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Speaker 2: even seen the Tech Night episode. But I do think

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Speaker 2: there's also something interesting there where like Hue's arc is

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Speaker 2: generally just to be like, then he's like this kind

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Speaker 2: of like all the nihilistic tendencies that the show does

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Speaker 2: have are kind of like put onto him and kind

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Speaker 2: of forced on t him, And I thought that was

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Speaker 2: a really interesting read.

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Speaker 1: All the while, Homelander is trying to integrate Ryan Moore

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Speaker 1: into the kind of VAT cinematic universe and the VAT storytelling,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually, you know, Vot's various like content offs

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Speaker 1: with an eye towards him clearly like eventually joining the Seven.

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Speaker 1: Parallel to this, Homelander has also concocted this plan to

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Speaker 1: foist a coup upon the United States of America, taking

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Speaker 1: out the president, elevating Victoria Newman, and then empowering soups

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Speaker 1: led by Homelander to basically negate the regular armed forces

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Speaker 1: of the US so that soups will have.

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Speaker 2: Just a casual coup.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, soups will have all the control. The Boys' attempt

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Speaker 1: to thwart this they guard Singer, none of the it works,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't work. They do save Singer's life, but

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Speaker 1: he ends up going to jail. Butcher, now powered back up,

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Speaker 1: kills Victoria Newman. The Boys end up on the run

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Speaker 1: because actually this was secretly Sage, who had been fired

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Speaker 1: from the seven. This was actually Sage's secret plan that

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Speaker 1: she had kept from Homelander, and it worked. Singers Out

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Speaker 1: of the Way, Victoria Newman's Out of the Way. Homelander

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Speaker 1: is basically elevated to the power behind the acting the

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Speaker 1: new president. Now his soup is planned to elevate soups

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Speaker 1: to power positions in the US military. Establishment is happens,

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Speaker 1: and the Boys find themselves essentially on the run. The

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Speaker 1: season ends with Homelander being told that they have soldier

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Speaker 1: boy who's being held that kind of his dad in

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Speaker 1: this kind of like cryogenic chamber. That was season four

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Speaker 1: of The Boys. Here's my thought. I enjoyed it. I

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Speaker 1: think it's clearly the weakest season of the Boys, and

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Speaker 1: I also think it suffers from This is really the

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Speaker 1: season where you felt like somebody from high up at

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Speaker 1: Amazon must have said, hey, we want this many seasons.

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Speaker 1: Can you just make that happen? And therefore a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stuff in here just felt like placeholder, Like

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Speaker 1: the virus stuff went nowhere.

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Speaker 2: It went nowhere. It felt like that would be like

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Speaker 2: that would be the final season. And I feel so

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Speaker 2: we end this season in a very similar place to

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Speaker 2: like when Homelander killed somebody.

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Speaker 1: It feels like the end of every season. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really generally feels like this is the end of every

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Speaker 1: season of The Boys, where nothing happens to Homelander.

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Speaker 2: Homeland is powerful. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I

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Speaker 2: think there's some really interesting ideas. I think that sister

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Speaker 2: Sage is like a very intro I like that she

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Speaker 2: kind of got to have this journey that was had her.

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Speaker 2: At the beginning, it seemed like she was just part

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Speaker 2: of Homeland a story, but by the end, you really

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Speaker 2: she's been on she's had her own agenda. Also, let's

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Speaker 2: just call her Sage. But also I will say, like

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Speaker 2: I think one of the things about this season, and

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Speaker 2: one of the things that's hard about doing what essentially

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Speaker 2: feels like filler, I actually do think this leaned a

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Speaker 2: bit too much into that nihilism of the original comics,

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Speaker 2: like and the kind of grotesque Ye. Now, look, none

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Speaker 2: of us are saying The Boys hasn't been grotesque. I

399
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Speaker 2: watched and loved GENV that had some really crazy stuff

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Speaker 2: in it, right, But even like the stuff with Sage

401
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Speaker 2: having to you know, the bottomize herself because her brain's

402
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Speaker 2: always growing, very deadpool like this idea that you're always

403
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Speaker 2: changing and your body needs to find new ways to regenerate.

404
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Speaker 2: But that is like a very loaded thing in when

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Speaker 2: it comes to the history of the way women have

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Speaker 2: been treated, when it comes to the history of the

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Speaker 2: way black women have been treated. Even that I felt

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Speaker 2: like was a bit bleak for without any kind of

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Speaker 2: bigger storytelling around it. I think they did a good job,

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Speaker 2: and I think that the actress Susan Haywood is like

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Speaker 2: she did such a fantastic job, but that were these

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Speaker 2: little bits of sort of nihilism and like Huey having

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Speaker 2: to kill his dad, and I like the balance was

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Speaker 2: there as much.

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Speaker 1: I think it just felt like, again, I enjoyed the season,

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Speaker 1: I think it was bad, but it feels a little

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Speaker 1: bit like haven't we seen all of this stuff before

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Speaker 1: at various points in this series? And I think the

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Speaker 1: main thing that feels a little bit off to me

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Speaker 1: is the fact that Homelander. You know, I've said before

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Speaker 1: and I said on my my other podcast Six Trophies

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Speaker 1: with Chase Toronto, like there's to me, there's there's two

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Speaker 1: really great ways to do a villain, and one is

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Speaker 1: the Darth Vader method, which is you have this overpowered,

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Speaker 1: so scary villain, you don't know how the hero will

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Speaker 1: ever fight it, and that the fact that the villain

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Speaker 1: is so scary allows them to not really be on

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Speaker 1: the screen that much. And then the other ways like this,

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Speaker 1: you have this villain that's there all the time but

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Speaker 1: also is inherently weaker than the hero, and it's only

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Speaker 1: because of like the structures around this villain that they're

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00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: able to keep the hero at bay, and you can't

433
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: wait for them to fight because you just know the

434
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: hero is gonna wipe them mat with this guy. Yeah,

435
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: the thing about Homelander is he's one overpowered, two keeps winning,

436
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: and three he's never even got his hair. Must Like

437
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: I personally, I like a story where everybody loses a

438
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: little bit, and you don't feel like Homelander has ever

439
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: lost anything. No, Okay, you could say the relationship with

440
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: Ryan is a little bit of a lot, but not really.

441
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: Like even then, I'm like, surely if this is a

442
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 2: show that is so brutal and can do so many

443
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 2: things like hot, make those stakes higher for him like.

444
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: It, And again it feels a little bit like getting

445
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: a message from above that's like, hey, we got to

446
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: keep Homelander around a little bit because we want this

447
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: many seasons.

448
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: It just feels like definitely the standout villain, but also

449
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: like I feel like killing him would be a great twist,

450
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: and then you reveal who the true villain is not

451
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: even killing.

452
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: You don't even have to, you know. I think about

453
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones where it's like Jamie was this incredible

454
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: villain for season one and then you chop his hand off,

455
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: in a totally different kind of character emerges like you know,

456
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: if what if the virus didn't kill Homelander but just

457
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: made him like disgusting looking something I'm not you know,

458
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: this is I'm not just telling people how to do

459
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: their jobs, but I will say it just felt to

460
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: me like there's never been a cost that Homelander has

461
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: ever paid for anything, and it is just feels a

462
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 1: little bit retread to me at this point. And then

463
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: there's the point that a lot of people, a lot

464
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: of other people have made, which is that Homelander is

465
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: so scary and I think, you know, thinking back to

466
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: season one, where it was like it just felt like

467
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: he's this godlike power and you are so terrified of

468
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 1: like he would be flying like above where the boys are,

469
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: you know, at the speed of sound or faster. But

470
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: he might see them from ten thousand feet in the

471
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 1: air or hear them from a mile away.

472
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: Couldn't he just kill them, like and tunning them down himself.

473
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: I feel like that's another issue, is like he is

474
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: kind of like it feels like he's kind enough in

475
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: this season because you need the season to go on.

476
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: That's exactly it. And because they've had him there so long,

477
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: they've had to tone those aspects down. Now. It's like,

478
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: you know, the boys will be like there's that scene

479
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: in the season where the you know, the MM basically

480
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: escapes and Hughey like escaped from Homelander by you know,

481
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: like running through a building and escaping out to the street,

482
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: where that would not happen to Season one Homelanders Homeland

483
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: the building. It would blow up the building, He'd hear

484
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: them from two miles away, would know where they were

485
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: at and would just find them immediately, And that was

486
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: You're exactly right. They've had to nerve him in a

487
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: way that feels a little bit unearned considering where we

488
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: started with Homelander again being really critical, but that's only because.

489
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: The first three seasons it's been such a high believe.

490
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then to go back now to to Soldier Boy,

491
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: it feels like now we're returning to ground that we've

492
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: already tread to me? Can I tell you two things

493
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: that I thought we were going to get?

494
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?

495
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: And then maybe there were obvious things to think, but

496
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: that I was hoping we would see. One Victoria Newman

497
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: actually trying to pop Homelander's head.

498
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: Please. That happen an interesting like psychic battle or something,

499
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: you know, some kind of it could have been like

500
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: some really grotesque, like total Recal esque effects where it's

501
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: like almost exploding but he's too powerful to off that.

502
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: That would have been really cool.

503
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: And Two the Superman versus Batman thing with Homelander and Sage.

504
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: I wanted Homelander to be like, that's it, I'm killing

505
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: you Sage, and then you get this moment where you

506
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: realize Sage has played this the smartest person on earth

507
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: and has planned that this would happen, that Homelander would

508
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: try to kill her and has some answer for it.

509
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: I thought we would get that, and I'm kind of

510
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: disappointed we didn't get them, because Sage. I feel like

511
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: I never really got to see her show out as

512
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: the smartest person on m like, really really go there

513
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: as the smartest person on Earth.

514
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I also think as well, like they did

515
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff this season that you do make

516
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: A great point is like it feels like it was

517
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: to you had to take away certain people's powers like

518
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: Starlight or whatever, right, so you couldn't just have this

519
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: season end with a lot of death and people empowered

520
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: and blown up. And I do think it is feels

521
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: like a holding season.

522
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, like dead, like, do we need

523
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: that plot point like an do you know about it?

524
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: I actually we didn't need.

525
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: We didn't need Huey Senior, right.

526
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: I yeah, I think it's really grotesque. And I know,

527
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: I know that it's amazing to have Simon Pegg in

528
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: the show, and I do agree because he was the

529
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: original inspiration for Huey, But did we need that plot line?

530
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: The Starlight kind of the doing the like, you know,

531
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: losing your powers and you have to rework in the world.

532
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: That's very overdone kind of thing in this And I

533
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: do think it's hard. How do you keep a show

534
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: like this super original when let's give credit where credit

535
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: is due. They are not really taking from the comics

536
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: in any concrete way because the comics are so nihilistic

537
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: and bleak, they don't have a lot of like great

538
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: source material to take from. But I do feel like

539
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: the drop off inconsistency from like season three to this,

540
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: where I felt like every season of The Boys on

541
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: two three got better, this one felt like the first one.

542
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: This is the friend of dropped off.

543
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: Not killing the deep in Black Noir when you had him.

544
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Now maybe you couldn't kill him, but

545
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: like not at least not letting them walk away towards

546
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: so that like in a couple of hours they'd be

547
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: fine and would be back to face you again.

548
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, Okay, I will say though, the one thing

549
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: I did like about this season, yes, is that they

550
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: let Black Noir's actor who's always played him play an

551
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: actor playing Black Noir. That stuff I thought was really funny.

552
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: That's a side quest that I enjoyed. That's a great

553
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: way to pay homage to the actor who originally played him.

554
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: And also it's just like funny to go from having

555
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: a silent character to having a character who is like

556
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: completely sassy and like doesn't play by the rules, and

557
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: I believe it. Yeah, Nathan Mitchell who always played black noir,

558
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: but now he gets to play black noir too. I

559
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: thought that was very in the in the realm of

560
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: what The Boys does really well, And I felt like

561
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: there was needed to be more of that kind of

562
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: humor and neta text and less of the like bleak

563
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: kind of side quests and everybody's in the worst possible

564
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: place they can be and everything is bad. I need

565
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a kind of a balance

566
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: between those two things. Also, we essentially end the season

567
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: where like the Boys are on the run like the

568
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: original season and Homelander is really powerful like the original season.

569
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: So what does season five look like?

570
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: You know, clearly this is going to be the Boys

571
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: at their lowest point. You know, you've got Huians and

572
00:33:53,800 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: any separated, You've got a Butcher in the throes of

573
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: a deepening psychosis.

574
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and with these new crazy powers though actually was

575
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: pretty cool to see.

576
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, like really really horror body horror type of powers.

577
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: And you've got you know, Homelander and now in control

578
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: of Soldier Boy and the country. And can this ragtag

579
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: group somehow fight back and then finally strike down Homelander.

580
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: I think that is clearly what they're angling up to.

581
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: But also can it Like That's what I want to know,

582
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 2: is like, is there a version of season five where

583
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 2: there's a you know, inverted Commas happy ending, like can

584
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: the boys ever win? In a show where what we've

585
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: established is that the villain always wins? I'm very interested

586
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: to see see that kind of go to its inevitable end,

587
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 2: which feels like this ending of like Homelander he's in

588
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: the present, Is he going to be the president? Like

589
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: you know that kind of thing that feels like an

590
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: inevitable kind of like, oh, the bad guys always win

591
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: kind of the Boys way. But I just can't. I

592
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: can't foresee what they're going to do with season five,

593
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 2: which is partially exciting, and I would love to see

594
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: them build in more of the gen v characters and

595
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: kind of connect that world a bit more. But Aboo

596
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: just put a great question in here, which is, how

597
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 2: would you kill Homelander? Jason?

598
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: I mean, they have this they have they have this

599
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: virus now that kills every soon that you just have

600
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: that they've been working on that is extremely virulent and

601
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: the only drawback is it would kill many of their

602
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: friends or several of them. Why you know there it

603
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: is right there, there's the there's the silver bullet that

604
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: kills the werewolf.

605
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: If you if they want to, you know, bring us

606
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 2: on for season five, will write it will help write,

607
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: it will be in the riers room. But I will

608
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: say I think the coolest thing that they could do

609
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: that would be like the most shocking thing is if

610
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 2: Butcher really less the virus in season one, in episode

611
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: I mean in episode one, season five, it does kill Homelander,

612
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: and then basically the whole season is just dealing with

613
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: the fact that all these soups are like dying and

614
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: sick and you've kind of re upped the world. It

615
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: will be very bleak, but I feel like it would

616
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: have that great like search Party esque, like shocking final

617
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: season where just everything changes from what we've known. I

618
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: think the virus is the key to switching off our

619
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: expectations of what the final season will be.

620
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: I also hope the Deep dies really early. Please kill

621
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: what like with that was and that was I think

622
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: the final moment where I finally turned on the Deep

623
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: be killing Ambrosious was terrible. It was like very it

624
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: was actually like hard to watch, and also like why

625
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: do we need this guy anymore? He's he's the fucking worst,

626
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: just like get Rid of the Deep. I'm interested to

627
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: see where it goes. I will be watching it. Sounds

628
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: like we hated it, but I did. No, no, no season

629
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: It was just it really was like you talk about

630
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: seasons one through three, it's such a high bar. Yeah,

631
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: and this is the first one where you really feel

632
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: like it's a step back.

633
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: Also as well, I think we are in a very

634
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: lucky space to even have a show like this to

635
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: talk about critically because we have so much superhero content.

636
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 2: So yeah, it didn't hate it, but definitely not up

637
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: there with the highs of the highs.

638
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: Coming next week on Extra Division, it's the House of

639
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: the Dragon season two finale. Plus we've got an interview

640
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: with the legend himself.

641
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: Oh else Stein Boom.

642
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: Plus we're grappling onto your face, depositing an egg in

643
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: your belly, and then bursting through your chest for the

644
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: entire week with Alien coverage to creep and crawl through

645
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: your ventilation system to get you ready for Alien Romulus,

646
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: which drops August sixteenth. Get ready for that. That's it

647
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: for this episode Thanks for listening.

648
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 2: Thanks for us man bye.

649
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Ken Supsion and

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Speaker 1: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our

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Speaker 1: executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising

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Speaker 1: producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent

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Speaker 1: and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

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Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman

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Speaker 2: and Heidi Our discoored Moderata