1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Hi, This is newt Twenty twenty is going to be 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: one of the most extraordinary election years of our lifetime. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: I want to invite you to join my Inner Circle 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: as we discuss each twist and turn in the presidential race. 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: In my members only Inner Circle Club, you'll receive special 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: flash briefings, online events, and members only audio reports from 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: me and my team. Here is a special offer for 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: my podcast listeners. 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Join My Inner Circle today at Newtcenter 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Circle dot com slash podcast use the Code podcast at checkout. 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: Sign up today at Newtcenter Circle dot com slash podcast 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: and use the Code podcast Hurry This Offtway Spires, February fourteenth. 16 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: On this episode of a News World, Since Tax Day 17 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: is tomorrow, I thought I'd devote an episode to some 18 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: of the hidden taxes we encounter in our everyday lives. 19 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: We'll look at some of the more outrageous taxes that 20 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: were enacted to change our behavior. I think you'll be 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: amazed as I was at some of the taxes that 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: exist in the United States and how some of them 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: came about. I'm pleased to welcome my guests, Elaine Parker, 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: President of Job Creators Network Foundation, and Grover Norquist, President 25 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: of Americans for Tax Reform. Elaine Parker has spent years 26 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: studying the tax system and how complex it is, how 27 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: strange it is in some places, how invisible it is, 28 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: and so it's great to have Elane here helping us 29 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: look at the hidden tax bills that shape our lives. Elan, 30 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: why don't you share with our audience your background, how 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: you got interested in this, and what you've done to 32 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: have a better understanding of taxes in America. Thanks new 33 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: I am the president of the Job Creators Network Foundation, 34 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: and at the Job Creators Network Foundation, what we do 35 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: is educate people on how different policies impact their pocketbooks. 36 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: Taxes is obviously a huge one, and we all recognize 37 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: income taxes. We do our taxes every year, we recognize 38 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: our property taxes, and we recognize sales tax and everything 39 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: we buy. What we don't see are the hidden taxes 40 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: in our lives on different products, and what people don't 41 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: realize is that taxes really run downhill. You can see 42 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: politicians all the time talking about raising income tax, raising 43 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: the sales tax, or raising taxes on corporations, and the 44 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: reality is corporations don't really pay taxes. Those costs are 45 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: baked into the goods of everything we buy and they 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: roll downhill to you, to me, to the consumer, to 47 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: hard working American families, and so people need to understand 48 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: that they are really paying those increase in taxes. Why 49 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: don't we do it by going through one day in 50 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: the life of the average Americans what one day is 51 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: like in the life of taxes. So at seven o'clock 52 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: in the morning, the first thing you might do is 53 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: check your cell phone. Tell me about taxes and cell phones. 54 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: Cell phones are quite a fun product to talk about 55 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: because everybody has one nowadays. When you're in the store 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: and you're excited about this new cell phone and the 57 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: salesman is selling you your package, then you walk out thinking, Okay, 58 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: for eighty nine dollars a month, I've got unlimited talk, 59 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: text and all of those things that we're all doing 60 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. When you get your bill, it 61 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: ends up being tremendously higher than what you thought, and 62 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: all you think is where'd that any nine dollars a 63 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: month ago? And if you've got teenage on top of that, 64 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: like I do, then you've got multiple charges plus all 65 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: of those taxes, and it ends up being as much 66 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: as sixteen percent more on your bill. So you're talking 67 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: about hundreds of dollars a year on top of what 68 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: you are already paying, and it gets to be pretty expensive. 69 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: What I'm struck with is that almost one dollar out 70 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: of every five in the average customer's bill goes to taxes. 71 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: I think almost nobody knows that. And I noticed that 72 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: Illinois probably has the highest taxes in the country for wireless, 73 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: paying over twenty seven percent. That means out of every 74 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: four dollars, more than one of them is going to 75 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: the state of Illinois. In order for you to have 76 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: a cell phone. If you live in Chicago, it's even 77 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: more expensive. And that's because, if you recall, they put 78 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: a bid for the Olympics and so to do that, 79 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: they actually added an additional tax to the cell phone 80 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: bill to help support that bid. Well, if you recall 81 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: they didn't get the bid, well, guess what, the temper 82 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: taxes still there. So now people are still paying this 83 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: temporary tax for something the city never got. And that's 84 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: what's so frustrating with politicians and taxes is once that 85 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: tax is there, it's really hard to make it go away. 86 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: And then around seven you turn on a morning news 87 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: show on cable or satellite TV. What kind of taxes 88 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: hit us at that point? Cable bills so cable it 89 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: almost seems like you have to be in the top 90 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: one percent of income earners to afford cable. These days, 91 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: we've actually seen in the last decade cable bills have 92 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: really exploded in their costs. But it all has to 93 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: do with the taxes and the surcharges that are really 94 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: snuck into our cable bills, and we're paying for things 95 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: like telecommunications equipment in libraries and schools, and so when 96 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: you add the average tax onto your cable bill, your 97 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: basic bill, you're paying anywhere from ten to thirteen percent 98 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: more on that cable bill, Which makes it understandable why 99 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: we have all these other non cable options to watch 100 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: different types of TV, because cable has become so expensive 101 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: just as a result of the taxes. You now have 102 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: paid taxes on your cell phone, you've paid taxes on 103 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: your cable, you get in the car to go to work, 104 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: you stop to fill up your gas tank. It's just 105 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: amazing how much the taxes can be and who's getting them, 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: because you've got a lot of different entities with their 107 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: hand in the cookie jars. Federal taxes are about eighteen 108 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: cents per gallon, but when you start looking at the 109 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: individual states and what their tax rates are, it varies widely. 110 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: They can be on average you'll see maybe about twenty 111 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: seven cents across the country, but when you look at 112 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: individual states, like say New York, it's more than fifty 113 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: cents a gallon, and Pennsylvania seventy cents a gallon, such 114 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of money on top of just the 115 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: cost of a gallon gas. Pensylia have the highest gas tax. 116 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is probably near the highest. California it's got a 117 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: pretty high tax too. So you've now paid taxes to 118 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: use your cell phone, You've pay taxes to use your cable, 119 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: You've paid taxes to get to work on gasoline. You 120 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: decide to go to lunch, You go to a local 121 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: restaurant and you order at Hamburger. Talk to me about 122 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: all the taxes that are now sitting on your lunch plate. 123 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: When you look at going to lunch or dinner and 124 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,119 Speaker 1: ordering a hamburger, the obvious taxes are your sales tax 125 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: on your meal. But when you think about all the 126 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: way back to the beginning of where it starts, we've 127 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: got the farmer who raises the cow has to pay 128 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: property taxes on his land, electricity, water, he's got his 129 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: own income taxes to pay, and then he sells the 130 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: cow and it goes off to the processing plant and 131 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: they have to pay those same exact kind of taxes, 132 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: but they're also paying payroll taxes to their workers. Then 133 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: we've got the hamburger. Meat is transported to a distributor. 134 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: That trucker pays those taxes, gas taxes that we've just 135 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: talked about, which are tremendously high by state and registration fees. 136 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: And finally, the hamburger makes it to your restaurant that 137 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: you've gone to and on your plate, and they have 138 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: to pay all those same taxes that along the lines 139 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: of those other stops property, payroll, in income taxes, and 140 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: all of those taxes add up. They're literally cooked or 141 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: baked into the cost of your Hamburger and makes everything 142 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: a lot more expensive than it should be. Talk about 143 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: the taxes built in a happy hour. So when you 144 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: go to a happy hour and you decide you want 145 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: to have a drink, if you're going to have liquor, 146 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: you're going to pay more in taxes than you might 147 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: bear or wine. Liquor is got tremendous taxes on it. 148 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: Federal and state governments have their hand in the cookie 149 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: jar on this one too. They tax spirits at thirteen 150 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cents a gallon. I don't normally buy 151 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: spirits by the gallon, so what makes more sense to 152 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: me is what we all know it as is buying 153 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: it in fifths, So it's about two dollars and fifty 154 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: cents per fifth, and then the state tax on additional 155 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: taxes that can vary as high as over seven dollars 156 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: per fifth. If you go for beer or wine, you're 157 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: going to save some money because it's not taxed quite 158 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: as high. If you're spending ten dollars a week in beer, 159 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: that is about what you're paying in taxes. Coming up, 160 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: we'll talk about the outrageous taxes that are unique and 161 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:39,239 Speaker 1: astonishing and vary state by state and city by city. 162 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things that's clear at the 163 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: margin is that for different reasons, different legislatures and different 164 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: city councils pick on different taxes that you would not 165 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: normally think really matter. And sometimes it's ideological. I mean, 166 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: for example, there's now a deep amendment that plastic bags 167 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: are bad, and so more and more places charge you 168 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: if you get a plastic bag. There are people who 169 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: think that they're going to reduce the amount of plastic 170 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: in the ocean by eliminating coffee couple lieds. That's why 171 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: in Colorado the coffee coupled is charged extra, because it's 172 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: actually an environmental tax. A lot of cities are now 173 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: taxing soft drinks. They do it under the guise of 174 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: health consequences to try and change people's behavior, but really 175 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: what they do is they literally project out if we 176 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: implement this tax, we're estimating we'll get this much in revenue, 177 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars in many cities calculate that 178 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: they'll have tens of millions coming in. So they're not 179 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: expecting people to decrease their usage of the sugary drinks. 180 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: And I've got a great example of that. Philadelphia passed 181 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: a soda tax as well, and they had projected millions 182 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: of dollars in revenue, and loam behold, the revenue never came. 183 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: But not because people stopped the behavior, are stopped drinking sodas. 184 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: It's because they looked at soda consumption just over the 185 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: state line in New Jersey. People were going across state 186 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: line to avoid that tax. So it became tax avoidance, 187 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: not soda avoidance. I mean, how much of that public 188 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: health noise you think it is actually just an excuse 189 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: to raise money. It's absolutely an excuse to raise money. 190 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: And the states that are doing it, you see why, 191 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: they're high tech states already, and so they're looking for imaginative, new, 192 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: unique ways to create a stream of revenue for a 193 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: state that wants the California, for a state that is 194 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: so heavy on the health and trying to change people's 195 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: behaviors with like a soda tax. They are now taxing 196 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: fruit bought through vending machines. Let me start with, I 197 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: didn't know you could buy fruit through a vending machine anywhere, 198 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: but in California you're going to pay a thirty three 199 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: percent tax on it to eat a little healthier. And 200 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: I will bet you if you go back in the 201 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: ledgislature and look, you will find that the grocery store 202 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: Association was proposing that because it was diverting business away 203 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: from the grocery store. A great deal of taxation is 204 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: not about a theory. It's about one group trying to 205 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: gain a net advantage over another group. And so you 206 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: end up with these very arcane provisions. But somebody somewhere 207 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: thought it was useful they ended up getting it adopted. 208 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: Can you talk about some of the more outrageous or 209 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: oddball taxes. I'm a big bagel fan. I love to 210 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: eat bagels in the morning. That's when I have my carbs. 211 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: And in New York they have an eight cent bagel 212 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: cutting tax. But strangely enough, if you don't get your 213 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 1: bagel cut you don't pay the tax. So if you 214 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: ask for a raisin bagel that is complete, you'd say 215 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: sents cheaper than if you ask them to slice it 216 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: so they can put the cream cheese on, so you 217 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: can save eight cents if you carry your own bagel cutter. 218 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: You have to wonder how they thought that up. So 219 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: I have some odd ball taxes here to talk about 220 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: in Florida eager to get parents to make their kids safer. 221 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: Florida has exempted youth bicycle helmets, booster seats, and other 222 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: child restraints from sales taxes, So a little bit of 223 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: an opposite spin there. So again working to change people's behavior, 224 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: which that's probably a little easier to do. In California, 225 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: they have a high proof tax. If your alcohol is 226 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: more than one hundred percent proof, the liquor tax doubles, 227 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: which is pretty amazing. In New Jersey, if you want 228 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: to own a plush or fuel thirsty ride, that'll cost 229 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: you extra. There's a point four percent surcharts that's levied 230 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: on cars that cost more than forty five thousand dollars 231 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: or have a combined EPA fuel mileage that averages nineteen 232 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: miles per gallon or below. So pretty amazing what some 233 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: of these taxes, these odd ball taxes that are out there. 234 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: In California, the marijuana dispensaries have to give equal to 235 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: two percent of their sales to the poor and the 236 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: homeless because it's seen as an equity issue. It's not 237 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: fair that the poor and the homeless are not benefiting 238 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: from the marijuana as much as the people who are 239 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: paying for it. Here's another one. In Maine. Anyone who grows, purchases, cells, handles, 240 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: or processes blueberries their tax at a rate of point 241 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: zero fifteen cents per pound of the blueberries. One of 242 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: my favorites, though, is if you take a tethered hot 243 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: air balloon ride in Kansas, it's apparently entertainment, and so 244 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: you pay six point five percent tax. But if you 245 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: release the hot air balloon, it's now transportation and so 246 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: you're not taxed. So no one should ever go on 247 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: a tethered balloon ride in Kansas. If you really want 248 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: to ride in a balloon in Kansas, you know, make 249 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: sure that they let you go. I was very struck 250 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: when I learned that the champagne costs six times as 251 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,479 Speaker 1: much as regular wine in terms of taxes in Minnesota. 252 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: And I can't wait to see my friends out there 253 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: and explains why they all drink beer. But it's just 254 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: interesting and when you think, how did the legislature reach 255 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: that conclusion. Another interesting example of attack is in Pennsylvania, 256 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: they enacted a temporary tax of ten percent on hard 257 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: liquor back in nineteen thirty six. It was to help 258 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: the victims of the Johnstown flood. In six years they 259 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: had raised forty two million dollars and it rebuilt the 260 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: town and everybody was much happier. But they never ended 261 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: this temporary tax, and it now accounts for eighteen percent 262 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: of the costs of every bottle of liquor sold in Pennsylvania. 263 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: It's just built into the retail costs now, so people 264 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: really don't know that they're paying it. The people statewide, 265 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: responding to what was really a catastrophe, voluntarily imposed attacks 266 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: to rebuild the town, and then did nobody ever try 267 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: to repeal it. I don't know the history of it, 268 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: but I do know that just in watching all of 269 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: the taxes that we see enacted regularly, they don't get repealed. 270 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: The next time I go to New York, I'm going 271 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: to go in and check on I say, now, if 272 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: I order the bagel without being sliced, do I get 273 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: my eight cents back? Or should I pay the eighth 274 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: cents in order to have a sliced bagel with my 275 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: cream cheese, And to see what the conversation's like. I mean, 276 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: I'll be curious whether the delicatest is even aware of it. 277 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll look at the syntaxes. What 278 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: are they and do they really have an impact on 279 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: the choices we make. I'm delighted to have somebody who 280 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: I've known for many, many years as an activist, a 281 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: very principal warrior for lower taxes and more freedom, Grover norquists. 282 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: When you think about all the different taxes, you know 283 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: they used to be true a long time ago that 284 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: we had syntaxes and that the culture at the time 285 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: actually meant it. That is, if you were a local 286 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: Baptist group, charging tax for alcohol made some sense because 287 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: you thought of as a sin. Considering the chaos of 288 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: our current culture, isn't the whole concept of a syntax 289 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: kind of nutty? They demonize a product, or a person 290 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: or a group and then say, now it's okay to 291 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: tax them because it's just a few. So they picked 292 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: up on the idea of syntaxes where let's try and 293 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: discourage people from drinking too much by having a tax 294 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: on beer, wine spirits and making those higher and higher. 295 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: Maybe people smoke less if you have taxes on cigarettes. 296 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: But their real goal in life is clear. When in 297 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: South Carolina, the let's tax cigarette people said, well, let's 298 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: raise tax on cigarettes. And the governor said, fine, how 299 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: much would that raise. We'll cut the personal income tax 300 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: the same amount of money. And all of the advocates 301 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: of raising tax on cigarettes to protect children from smoking said, well, 302 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: we don't like the kids that much. We just wanted 303 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: the money. We're not interested in raising taxes on cigarettes 304 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: and cutting the income tax because that would create jobs 305 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: and maybe people would smoke glass, which won the money. 306 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: We were lying when we said let's do this because 307 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: it would help children not smoke cigareups. So the best 308 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: way to discover whether somebody's really thinks they're fighting sin 309 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: is to offer to offset their syntax with income tax cut. 310 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: And then you find out that people who just wanted 311 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: the money and thought this was the easiest group to roll, 312 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: so you could sort of put syntaxes against sinless tax cuts. Frankly, 313 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: I think the whole challenge with excise taxes is that 314 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: it's the government too much trying to direct what we're doing. 315 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: You're even seeing on the question of reducing the probition 316 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: on marijuana, California's got a tax system for marijuana. Of 317 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: the cost of buying cannabis in California will now go 318 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: to the government, so they'll keep the illegal producers in 319 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: business because it's too expensive to go through the government program, 320 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: which goes all the way back to the Whiskey rebellion. 321 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: In the seventeen nineties, the Easterners tried to raise the 322 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: tax on farm based corn liquor to the advantage of 323 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: the big distilleries in the East, who apparently had lobbyists 324 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: or something. It's amazing that even in the very first 325 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: term of Washington's presidency, we were already into these games 326 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: and it really just came down to you who gets 327 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: the money. Wasn't a complicated moral cause. They almost split 328 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: the country east west down the Operation Mountains with those 329 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: taxes on the Westerners, and people thought they might go 330 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: on their own or join France or something else. And 331 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: then the country divided north south on the tariff eighteenth two, 332 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: South Carolina called out the militia against the tariffs because 333 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: the North was busy screwing the South with tax structures. 334 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: Tariff structures. Taxes are very dangerous. They divide people, they 335 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: damage the group that gets taxed, and we need to 336 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: keep taxation as low as possible, as low as necessary. 337 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: I think, as Calvin Coolidge, you said, taxation beyond the 338 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: necessary functions of government is theft. It gets successive when 339 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 1: you have a clearly desirable, either very important or very 340 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: popular project, you can pass a specific levy to pay 341 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: for that and people will be pretty happy. So when 342 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: you're saving the Everglades, virtually everybody in South Floridas we 343 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: are willing to pay something because they understand how central 344 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: the Everglades are to the quality of life for the 345 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: entire state. And so these things spring up all over 346 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: the place and become sort of dedicated how do we 347 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: get it done? And that happens because the general Fund 348 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: usually is so overdrawn that you couldn't get money out 349 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: of the Florida General Fund to clean up the Everglades. 350 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: There's no money left, and so that's why they create 351 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: these special districts and special taxes. But the other thing 352 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: that happens is you get in a room and a 353 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: conference committee and you need the money, and you suddenly say, oh, 354 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: I got it. What we'll call this, you know that 355 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: really feel good about yourself, purple scarf tax, And he goes, 356 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: that's great, that'll work. This is part of why I'm 357 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: a historian, not a political scientist or a theoretician. I 358 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: want to know who offered it, what the circumstance was, 359 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: what the argument was, because it's often very idiosyncratic. I mean, 360 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: I'm totally fascinated. The other thing that's clear is that 361 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: once a government has its hand in your pocket for 362 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: any reason, it doesn't want to take it out because 363 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: it needs the money. Thank you to my guests Elaine 364 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: Parker and Grovern Noraquist. You can read more about some 365 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: of the country's most outlandish taxes on our show page 366 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Westwood One. 367 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: The executive producer is Debbie Myers. Our producer is Garnsey Sloan. 368 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: Our editor is Robert Boroski. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 369 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 370 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: The music was composed by Joey Salvia. Special thanks to 371 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: the team at Ginglish three sixty and Westwood Ones, Tim 372 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: Sabian and Robert Mathers. Please email me with your comments 373 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: at newt at newtsworld dot com. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, 374 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate 375 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 376 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. On the next 377 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: episode of news World on Easter Sunday, you'll meet a 378 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: fascinating woman named Joan Lewis and hear about her life 379 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: as an American expot living in Rome and reporting on 380 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: the Vatican for almost thirty years. She has great stories 381 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: to tell, especially about the times she bakes cookies for 382 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: the Pope. I'm an alcoholic, so the first thing I 383 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: thought of was I had made cookies for a lot 384 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: of other other offices and people in the Vatican. And 385 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: the first thing I thought of was, well, why wouldn't 386 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: the Pope perhaps like some cookies, maybe even brownies. So 387 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: I made a couple dozen brownies and maybe three or 388 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: four dozen cookies for the whole staff of the papal household. 389 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: And I bought a beautiful box to put them all in, 390 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: and called his secretary, whom I knew, and said, my 391 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: Senior Stanislaw, I have something for the Holy Father and 392 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: I think like it too, but I want to give 393 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: it to you in person. Well, could I come over 394 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: at five thirty? And so I brought the box of 395 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: brownies and cookies over at five thirty, and that turned 396 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: out to be the first of many times that I 397 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: made cookies for a pope. I'm new Gangwig. This is newsword.