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Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your Host Alisa Donovan.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Alisa Donovan, host of Killer Thriller, and

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Speaker 3: I am here with my friend Jen Fessler from Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 4: Doc you. Hi, my friend Gen love you.

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Speaker 3: So while most people are celebrating with backyard barbecues, beach days,

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Speaker 3: and fireworks, we are doing what we do best, which

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Speaker 3: is diving into some unbelievable true crime stories connected to

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Speaker 3: America's birthday on from shocking murders to mysteries tied to

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Speaker 3: the Fourth of July celebrations. These cases prove that sometimes

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Speaker 3: the most explosive events of the holiday aren't happening in

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Speaker 3: the sky. So whether you're heading to a barbecue, sitting

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Speaker 3: in traffic on a holiday road trip, or way eating

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Speaker 3: for the fireworks to begin, settle in as we explore

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Speaker 3: the darker side of the Fourth of July. Now, before

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Speaker 3: we get into these cases, Jen, what's your favorite Fourth

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Speaker 3: of July tradition?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't really have Fourth of July traditions

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Speaker 2: per se. Like I when I was young, I was

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Speaker 2: always at Sleepway Camp and so that was really fun.

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Speaker 2: It has to be with friends and fireworks and burgers

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Speaker 2: and hot dogs.

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Speaker 1: And my daughter's there right now.

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Speaker 4: Oh she is okay. Well that's another discussion.

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Speaker 2: I want to know where she is okay anyway, So yeah,

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Speaker 2: so that was always where I was for, you know,

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Speaker 2: the Fourth of July. As I got older with my kids,

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Speaker 2: they were at camp for a lot of that unless

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Speaker 2: they were babies, but there have been obviously, there's always

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Speaker 2: a parade. There's four couples we got together for a

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Speaker 2: few years, a couple friends every Fourth of July. That

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Speaker 2: was fun, barbecue, you know, burgers and hot dogs and

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Speaker 2: all of that. But I don't have necessarily traditions, do you.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, this is this kind of leads me into

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Speaker 3: my next question for you, which is going to be

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Speaker 3: has anything ever.

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Speaker 1: Gone wrong at the Fourth of July? And I'd like

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Speaker 1: to share.

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Speaker 3: How my my least favorite tradition, which couples with something

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Speaker 3: going terribly awry, is that I broke my radius and

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Speaker 3: ulna bones doing back handsprings on wet grass and Emerald

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Speaker 3: Bay after a day of light drinking.

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Speaker 4: Suh, don't please. This is when you were chop Well,

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Speaker 4: I guess not when you were a child.

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Speaker 3: No, I was thirty and I was also wearing flip

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Speaker 3: flops and I wanted to impress my then boyfriend by

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Speaker 3: telling him, did you know I could do back hand springs?

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Speaker 2: And he was like, what a nightmare? Embarrassing, horrible, painful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was sort of the beginning of the end

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Speaker 3: of our relationship. It went on another year, but I

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Speaker 3: loved him dearly.

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Speaker 1: Anyway.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I said, yeah, I could do back handsprings

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Speaker 3: and he was like what, And so he puts the flashlight.

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing flip flops and I started.

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Speaker 3: I did a round off and then I stopped short

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Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, this doesn't feel right.

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Speaker 1: He said, don't be scared. You can do it, can I?

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Speaker 3: So I was like, you're right, and I went to

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Speaker 3: do it and I went up so high instead of

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Speaker 3: going backwards because I had forgotten because I haven't done

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Speaker 3: it in likeank twenty years.

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Speaker 1: And boy, that crack was heard round the world.

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Speaker 3: My screams all the way down the one trying to

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Speaker 3: get to Newport emergency room.

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Speaker 1: So that's my fourth of July.

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Speaker 2: My story is from last year, more recently, where we

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Speaker 2: bunch of friends came. We have a place at the

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Speaker 2: beach and we probably had fifteen people or something, and

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Speaker 2: we went to the beach to watch the fireworks, and

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Speaker 2: we might have been smoking a little something. We might

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Speaker 2: have been drinking a little something, and maybe yeah, maybe

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Speaker 2: maybe maybe allegedly, and we drove bikes there, got back

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Speaker 2: on the bike. Now I'm not a bike rider, as

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Speaker 2: it turns out, there's a whole bunch of stories different,

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Speaker 2: not the point I shouldn't have been at that point,

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Speaker 2: and got on the bike, didn't even begin to pedal

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Speaker 2: when I all completely down and blood everywhere, and all

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Speaker 2: my friends were laughing so hard that it was a

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Speaker 2: stranger actually that came to and helped me get up.

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Speaker 4: Blood everywhere, bruises everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is why you and I are doing this

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Speaker 3: instead of celebrating the fourth of July. That's why we're

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Speaker 3: like staying and we're gonna have these conversations.

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Speaker 2: Favorite holiday, right, It is not the favorite holiday for

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Speaker 2: many of people that were about to discuss exactly all

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Speaker 2: at all.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, should we start with Marylyn Shepherd? Yes, So

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Speaker 3: this is one of the most infamous American murder cases.

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Speaker 3: Thirty one year old Marylyn Shepherd, who was four months pregnant,

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Speaker 3: was brutally bludgeoned to death in her Bay Village, Ohio

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Speaker 3: home in the early hours of the fourth of July.

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Speaker 3: Her husband, doctor Sam Shepherd, claimed he was a sleep

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Speaker 3: downstairs when he heard his wife's screams and encountered a

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Speaker 3: quote bushy haired intruder inside their home. So this quickly

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Speaker 3: became a national media sensation, and all the newspapers were

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Speaker 3: implying very heavily that Sam was guilty long before his trial,

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Speaker 3: and he was convicted in nineteen fifty four, but years

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Speaker 3: later the US Supreme Court overturned the conviction, ruling that

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Speaker 3: media coverage had made a fair trial impossible, and then

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Speaker 3: he was later acquitted in nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 1: So this is the case that went on to inspire

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Speaker 1: the story behind the Fugitive.

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Speaker 2: The only thing I think is when you hear those dates, right, like,

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Speaker 2: what would it have been like?

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Speaker 4: Now? Who knows right?

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Speaker 2: Exactly right? It's hard to write. Oh, so what does

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Speaker 2: all of this mean? Was Sam Shepherd guilty?

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Speaker 1: And would he get a fair trial?

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Speaker 3: Like I think about so many people that once the

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Speaker 3: media has made a decision and they've kind of told

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Speaker 3: the public that today it's like you can't recover because

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Speaker 3: it's all encompassing, it's just everywhere. And then, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: would you think that he would.

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Speaker 1: Would he get a more fair trial today?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean I don't know, more fair, less fair, right,

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Speaker 2: more information, maybe DNA things that you know, really can

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Speaker 2: can determine proof.

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Speaker 1: And still the guys still went to prison for twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So if he didn't do it, it's not like

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Speaker 3: that becomes.

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Speaker 4: Erased, right, right.

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Speaker 2: So here's the case of Megan Barrasso and so from

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Speaker 2: Moore Park, California. This is back in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 2: and after spending the evening watching Fourth of July fireworks

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Speaker 2: with friends, twenty year old college student Megan Barrasso was

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Speaker 2: driving home when she became the victim of a violent attack.

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Speaker 2: Investigators later determined she was pursued and shot from another

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Speaker 2: vehicle in what appeared to be a completely random act

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Speaker 2: of holiday violence. Her abandoned car was found the following day,

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Speaker 2: shocking the Ventura County community, and the senseless nature of

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Speaker 2: the crime, combined with its timing after a holiday celebration,

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Speaker 2: made the case especially haunting. You know, I think about

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Speaker 2: New Year's Eve and I absolutely hate the hold and

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Speaker 2: don't want to be out, and I think crazy things

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Speaker 2: happen on New usually because everyone's wasted.

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Speaker 3: And everybody has this feeling like I have to have

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Speaker 3: a good time exactly, this pressure of you need to

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Speaker 3: tell a story about it later and have kind of

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Speaker 3: the most.

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Speaker 1: Intense joy ever or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really that's actually a great way of putting it. Yes,

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Speaker 2: that is how it feels. There's a pressure to have

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Speaker 2: the best time ever, and I randomly will kill you

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Speaker 2: and I don't on the fourth of July, but like

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Speaker 2: in New Year's but then for her to be so

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Speaker 2: randomly shot.

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Speaker 3: This is what's so scary to me is that it's

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Speaker 3: literally it was a random act of violence, which I

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Speaker 3: wonder now is was it gang related? In somewhere like

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Speaker 3: it's I don't know anything about more Park, I don't

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Speaker 3: know how close.

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Speaker 2: That's what I thought as soon as you hear that, right, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like that you think was it was a gang related?

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Speaker 3: You know, like one of those what is it called

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Speaker 3: when someone has to and they're initiated and have to

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Speaker 3: kill someone? Yeah? Right. I mean I don't need a

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Speaker 3: lot to keep me up at night and make me

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Speaker 3: afraid and just thinking about that. I mean, does it

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Speaker 3: make you think like, oh, maybe I shouldn't drive at night?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe I shouldn't drive it all right?

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Speaker 1: I mean I don't drive at night because I can't

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Speaker 1: see anymore.

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Speaker 2: I can't really either, but I still I do. But

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Speaker 2: but yeah, it's totally scary. I get very afraid if

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Speaker 2: I feel like somebody is driving a little too close.

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Speaker 2: Partie back following me right, and you hear so many

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Speaker 2: stories about, you know, specifically women but getting carjacked. But

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Speaker 2: that always freaks me out. I'm always looking for Okay,

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Speaker 2: so if what's the exit route?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: When I first moved to LA now that you say that,

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Speaker 3: I remember that being my one of my biggest fears

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Speaker 3: because coming from I moved from New York City where

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Speaker 3: I never drove, and with this was just like a

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Speaker 3: whole other set of concerns.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So then at night, if you're at a red light

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Speaker 3: and someone next to you, I remember having this real

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Speaker 3: fear of like, oh.

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Speaker 1: My god, I go to get home.

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Speaker 2: Yep, me too. All right, who do we have next?

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Speaker 3: We have?

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Speaker 1: Next?

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Speaker 3: We have Irene Silverman and her disappearance. This is an

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Speaker 3: in New York City, July of nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 1: Irene was an eighty.

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Speaker 3: Two year old socialite and a real estate owner, and

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Speaker 3: she disappeared from her Upper east Side townhouse shortly after

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Speaker 3: a Fourth of July gathering in nineteen ninety eight, and

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Speaker 3: authorities soon focused on two tenants who had recently moved

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Speaker 3: into her building, and they turned out to be notorious

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Speaker 3: con artists, Kenneth Kimes Junior and Sante Kimes, and investigators

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Speaker 3: undercovered this elaborate scheme involving identity theft, financial fraud, and

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Speaker 3: this alleged plan to take over Silverman's life and property.

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Speaker 3: So although her body was never recovered, they were ultimately

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Speaker 3: convicted based on overwhelming circumstantial evidence, and they became the

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Speaker 3: Cimes duo became one of the most infamous mother son

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Speaker 3: criminal partnerships in American history.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about a violent stranger with a gun and

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Speaker 2: a car and shooting, and then a manipulative con artist that.

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Speaker 1: Moves into your building.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, you know which is more scary, something random

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Speaker 2: or something I know, you know, I mean, who cares.

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Speaker 4: They're both terrifying, But they're both terrifying.

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Speaker 3: I think this idea of someone so directly manipulating you,

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Speaker 3: especially an older person who has probably lived in the

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Speaker 3: same environment for many years and feels very safe there, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, that is like a particular kind of awfulness

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Speaker 3: that is great, and that's just brutal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed.

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Speaker 4: Agreed.

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Speaker 2: For listeners that don't know New York that well, or

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Speaker 2: like she lived, they on the Upper east Side, older,

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Speaker 2: very nice, very nice, Yeah, very nice neighborhood. Probably, I'm

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Speaker 2: guessing the building itself was very nice. Lots of of

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Speaker 2: people with lots of money. And you know, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you feel like this, but the planned out,

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Speaker 2: you know, doing doing true crime, the ones the most

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Speaker 2: chilling for me are always the ones that were planned out,

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Speaker 2: not just the random ones right now they got into

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Speaker 2: a fight and or you know, somebody lost control. It's

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Speaker 2: more the calculation of it all.

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Speaker 1: Yes, out, I totally agree. I totally agree, because that.

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Speaker 3: Like the amount of time and energy and use of

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Speaker 3: your mind that it takes to actually methodically plan these

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Speaker 3: things out, is that is the is the creepiest and

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Speaker 3: the worst offenses to me.

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Speaker 1: Also, I agree.

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Speaker 4: They freaked me out.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 4: Well, here's another one, the Koon's family massacre.

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Speaker 3: I had never heard of this, and I am like

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Speaker 3: wondering why I'd never heard of this.

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Speaker 4: I haven't either, but it was.

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Speaker 2: It was nineteen eighty seven, so July fourth through the fifth,

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Speaker 2: during Fourth of July celebrations in rural Wisconsin, for members

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Speaker 2: of the Kuhn's family were murdered at their farmhouse, creating

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Speaker 2: one of the state's most disturbing homicide cases. The following morning,

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Speaker 2: authorities discovered the crime scene, which sparked a complex investigation

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Speaker 2: involving questions of motives, evidence, and ultimately long running debate

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Speaker 2: over whether the correct person was ultimately held responsible. Even

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Speaker 2: years later, this case continues to raise questions and divide opinion.

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Speaker 2: You know, with cases like this, don't you have to know?

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Speaker 2: I mean, why I don't?

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Speaker 4: We don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember this story either, and I I haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it in a you know, una docu, un adocumentary,

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Speaker 2: but ultimately long running debate over whether the correct person

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Speaker 2: was ultimately held responsible. How awful to not you know,

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Speaker 2: is the right person in jail?

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Speaker 3: So I read some more on this case after I

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Speaker 3: knew we might talk about it today. And apparently the

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Speaker 3: guy who was arrested they couldn't prove that he murdered

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Speaker 3: these people, but they could prove that he kidnapped the

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Speaker 3: one family member.

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Speaker 1: And then when he was in.

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Speaker 3: Prison, he was released after a certain amount of time

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Speaker 3: and then went back and said I want to go

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Speaker 3: back to prison, but also said I was not admitting

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Speaker 3: his own guilt.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, well, I wouldn't feel so unsettled

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Speaker 2: after that. I mean, oh wait, he wasn't he just

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Speaker 2: enjoyed prison.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean, I don't, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: So I think this speaks to maybe that what is

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Speaker 3: it called when you have when you're an inmate and

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Speaker 3: you've become sort of indoctrinated in that life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I know what you're saying. I know exactly, but

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Speaker 4: you and.

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Speaker 3: I they talk about it in the Shashank Redemption right

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Speaker 3: institutionalized kind of, but there's a more specific term. So

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Speaker 3: maybe it was that which also that's about a man

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Speaker 3: wrongly accused of murdering his wife. Movie.

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Speaker 2: It's one of my favorites, my absolute one of my

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Speaker 2: absolute favorites as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but I love that movie.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I know, I just watched it on a plane

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Speaker 3: recently on one of my many we won't get into

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Speaker 3: my travel mishaps.

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Speaker 2: Art the whole other episodes, the part where they're on the.

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Speaker 1: Beach and then oh my god, I know, my god.

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Speaker 2: Sorry guys, if you haven't watched it, you should watch

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Speaker 2: it on fourth of July, and maybe instead of going

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Speaker 2: to big parties.

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Speaker 1: Just exactly just stay home and wasta some.

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Speaker 2: Yes, beautiful movies movie, but I don't know, you know what,

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Speaker 2: there are some communities that just never recover from from

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Speaker 2: crimes and they talk about, you know it, they.

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Speaker 4: Talk about crimes forever.

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Speaker 2: But I always feel badly hearing that there's so many

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Speaker 2: people divided on whether or not somebody's innocent and that

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Speaker 2: person is in jail, and.

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Speaker 1: Because that right, you never have closure.

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Speaker 3: It's just constantly torturing this surviving people. We've talked a

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Speaker 3: lot about things like that. When they happen in small communities, especially,

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Speaker 3: you know that it becomes a part of the fabric

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Speaker 3: of the of the talent and the community and the people,

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Speaker 3: and not only those closest, but it becomes sort of

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Speaker 3: known for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you if something happens in a home and

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Speaker 2: it's well known, it's harder just I would think a lot.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to buy a house where some groupome

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Speaker 2: murder happens.

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Speaker 3: Da right right, There are all sorts of things that

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Speaker 3: that are that happened as a result of this, not

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Speaker 3: just the actual crimes, you know.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: Listen, have a great fourth that July.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thanks you too.

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Speaker 4: You eat yourself a lot of hot dogs.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna not break any bones, nor am I going

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Speaker 3: to murder anyone.

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Speaker 2: My girl. Yeah, I plan on not breaking any bones. Bleeding, hopefully.

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Speaker 2: I'd rather prefer not to bleed blood. No blood, blood

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Speaker 2: early night in shot redemption situation, same same, all right, Well,

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Speaker 2: I love you, I love you.

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Speaker 1: This is super fun.

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Speaker 2: You're happy for alright, honey, talk soon, okay, bye bye

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Speaker 2: mhm