1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: Diversion audio. 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: This episode contains mature content and descriptions of violence that 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: may be disturbing for some listeners. Please take care in listening. 4 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: In a suburb of Houston in two thousand and one, 5 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: Officer Frank Stumpo responded to a nine to one one 6 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: call from Andrea Yates. When he arrived to clear Water, 7 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: a middle class neighborhood with very little crime, he was 8 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: shocked when his fellow policeman told him it was a homicide. 9 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: Andrea sat on the sofa in a dirty living room, 10 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: her wet hair lank. As Stumpo walked into the bedroom, 11 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: he assumed she'd killed her boyfriend or something. Instead, he 12 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: saw what he thought was a doll's head under the 13 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: covers of the bed. He touched the head. It wasn't 14 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: a doll, and it was ice cold. Next to the 15 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: infant's body, three of her brother's bodies were soaking through 16 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: the mattress. They were all lined up under the covers. 17 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: Officer Stumpo next discovered the body of Andrea's eldest son, 18 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 2: face down in the bathtub. It was Andrea who called 19 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 2: in the murders, and it was Andrea who had committed 20 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: the murders. Now she sat on the sofa, soaking wet 21 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: and completely emotionless. Welcome to the greatest true crime stories 22 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: ever told. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer. Today's episode is called 23 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 2: Postpartum Psychosis horror Story, and this one is grim, not 24 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: just because it's about a multiple murder of children, although 25 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 2: of course that alone makes it impossible. This episode is 26 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: about Andrea Yates, a loving wife and mother of five 27 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: who had postpartum depression after giving birth to each one 28 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: of her children. She was also invested in the fundamentalist 29 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: teachings of a Hellfire and Brimstone evangelist, So when the 30 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: postpartum depression after her fifth delivery turned into postpartum psychosis, 31 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: it melded with the fundamentalist teachings and led to a 32 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: truly dismal conclusion. Will untangle Yates's story right after the break. 33 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 2: Maybe you've heard the story of the Yellow Wallpaper. It's 34 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. From some perspective. It was first 35 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: published in eighteen ninety two. I taught English composition and 36 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: world literature for years. I'm a lifelong reader, and of 37 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 2: course I'm a writer, and that makes me a literature person. 38 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 2: But this story. I read it for the first time 39 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: in public school in seventh grade, and I did not 40 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: understand what was happening. If you haven't read the yellow Wallpaper, 41 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: do it. It's harrowing and it's genius, and it was 42 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: ahead of its time. Essentially, this very intelligent woman has 43 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: a baby and she doesn't bounce back the way they 44 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: think she should. So her husband, who is also her 45 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: doctor and yes that is a big red flag, decides 46 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: they'll go live in the country for a little while, 47 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: and our protagonist, she gets to stay in the top 48 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: floor apartment. Sounds like a penthouse, but it isn't. It 49 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: looks like a former nursery, except for the huge iron 50 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: bed nailed to the ground, the bars over the windows, 51 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: and the disgusting, scrolling yellow wallpaper. While they stay in 52 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: the country house, her husband slash doctor, doesn't let her 53 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: do anything, ostensibly for her own health, I mean, he 54 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: is a doctor. She wants to go on a walk, 55 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: but no, too much exertion. She wants to write a letter, Nope, 56 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: too much stimulation. So she sits in her room and 57 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: she stares at that wallpaper. She stares at it for 58 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: so long that she sees things moving in it, and 59 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: then it starts to come to life. To our seventh 60 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: grade minds, this sounded like fantasy. Some lady went crazy, 61 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: sucks for her. But our teacher said us straight. This 62 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 2: was postpartum depression and her doctor's slash husband treated it poorly, 63 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: which made it escalate into postpartum psychosis. So obviously, the 64 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: Yellow Wallpaper is fictional. It's a piece of literature. And 65 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: while it's great, those are characters. They represent real people 66 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: and real struggles, but they themselves are not real. Andrea 67 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: Yates is real. She lived one hundred years after that 68 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,119 Speaker 2: short story's publication. But I want to start her story 69 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: when she was twenty five in nineteen eighty nine, when 70 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: she met her future husband, Rusty Yates. Andrea was a 71 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 2: graduate of the University of Texas and a registered nurse. 72 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 2: She'd achieved those milestones despite some troubles with depression, but 73 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: these days she was doing well. Andrea and Rusty lived 74 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: in the same apartment complex. And Andrea made up some 75 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: cute little excuse to meet him, and soon after they 76 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: were dating, and about a year later they got married. 77 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: By every eyewitness account, Andrea and Rusty were very happy together. 78 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: They both had some pretty traditional values, and I know 79 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 2: that by this many episodes in y'll probably think of 80 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: me as a radical feminist killjoy, which I am. But 81 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: the most powerful tool anyone can have is options. And 82 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: Andrea did have options. No one forced her into that 83 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: traditional lifestyle. She was smart and beautiful, and she had 84 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: gotten her education, and she became a nurse. She supported herself, 85 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: and then she chose Rusty. So, dear listeners, please don't 86 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: think I am judging Andrea for wanting what she wanted. 87 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: It is fine to want tradition, and it's fine to 88 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: have it if it works for you. But the thing is, 89 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: it didn't really work for Andrea, even though it seems 90 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: like she really really wanted it to. A little over 91 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: a year after they got married, Andrea had their first child, Noah, 92 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: and Andrea chose to be a stay at home mother 93 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: to him. I should probably say as well. Rusty Yates 94 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: was a NASA engineer. He earned enough that it wasn't 95 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: a big financial strain for her to stay home. She 96 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: did entertain the idea of returning to nursing part time 97 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: too for a while. But the point is he was 98 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: a scientist and she was a medical professional. And this 99 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: was a smart, educated couple, which makes what happened next 100 00:07:47,480 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: particularly unsettling. After Andrea quit her job, she and Rusty 101 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: got pretty heavy into the teachings of Michael Warrenyuki and 102 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: his family, and the Warren Yuckies were a pretty tough crowd. 103 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: I get to interview the author of this exhaustive book 104 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: on the case called Breaking Point, Susie Spencer, so stick 105 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: around for that. And when she talked to Rusty, Rusty 106 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: told Susie that Michael Warrenyuki was a soft spoken preacher. 107 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: A quick google of that name reveals the exact opposite. 108 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: His videos are terrifying. He gesticulates wildly. He wears a 109 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: mask of Satan, which he said was to help convey 110 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: his message through language barriers. One of their evangelists banners 111 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: read all that matters is that you are a sinner 112 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: headed to Hell. So that's pretty bad. And to be 113 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: fair to non extremist Christians, that message is the exact 114 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: opposite of Christianity thesis that would go something like, you 115 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: would have been a sinner headed straight for Hell if 116 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: Christ had and died to save you from that eternal fate. 117 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 2: So the fact that the Warren Yuckes went another way, 118 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:25,599 Speaker 2: not good. Andrea had a lot of Michael Warrenyucki's teachings 119 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: on tape, which she played often. She even wrote to 120 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: the Warren Yuckies, mostly Michael's wife Rachel, alongside their donations 121 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: to this cause. All of this continued after the birth 122 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: of the Yates' second child, John and their third child, Paul. 123 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: Andrea wrote to them even after she and Rusty moved 124 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 2: out of their first house and into a trailer park. 125 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: That move, if it had been necessary, wouldn't have been 126 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 2: that odd. It's an understandable thing to do if money 127 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 2: is tight, but it wasn't necessary. Remember, Rusty worked for NASA, 128 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 2: and the yates Is didn't move into a trailer either. 129 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: Trailers might be small and mobile, but they are set 130 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: up for life, with a bathroom and a kitchen and 131 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: a table at which to eat, even an entertainment area 132 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: depending on the model. But the yates Is moved into 133 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: an old school bus. You might be wondering, but why 134 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: did they do that in the first place, or more importantly, 135 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: why did that idea come into their brains at all. 136 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 2: Rusty bought their Greyhound bus directly from the Warren Yuckies, 137 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: and Rusty was immediately disillusioned with the Warren Yuckies teachings 138 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 2: because this bus sucked. There were all kinds of problems 139 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: with it that the Warren yuckes knew about and did 140 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 2: not disclose to him. And if you'll lie about a 141 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 2: little thing, well go back to the story. Rusty had 142 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 2: wanted to travel in an RV around the States for 143 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: a while. That's not an awful idea in itself. It's 144 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: kind of romantic unless you take it to the extreme, 145 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: which he did. He also wanted to live in the 146 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: vehicle permanently and get rid of all their worldly possessions. 147 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: He had Andrea sell everything in Breaking Point, Susie Spencer 148 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: says they sold quote, their wedding gifts, most of their furniture, 149 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 2: everything but his tools and workout equipment, which went into 150 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: a ten foot by ten foot storage facility. That's different, 151 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: and it's really different when there are small children, because well, 152 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: babies need a lot of stuff. Not to mention, the 153 00:11:50,280 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: kids slipt in the luggage compartment. If you're like me, 154 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: you might be thinking something like, what the fuck is 155 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 2: a pregnant mother doing living in a Greyhound That's what 156 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: Andrea's family said to more or less when they found 157 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 2: out about it. Because remember, Andrea never said she didn't 158 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: want to live in this bus. I can't imagine that 159 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: she actually wanted to. No one actually wants to do 160 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 2: something like that. I'm sorry, No, you don't. You want 161 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: to want to. You might like the ideology or the 162 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: concept of communing with nature, or minimalism or scaling back 163 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: your consumerism, but no one actually likes it. Not when 164 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 2: it comes down to it. No, you don't. I will 165 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: die on this hill. Think about the last time you 166 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 2: went camping. Remember how you laid your thirty something year 167 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: old back on the hard ass ground, and try to 168 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: recall how you forgot your contact lens solution or some 169 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: other such Toiletry that makes our core poral existence bearable. 170 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: Really absorb those tactile observations, Really feel that piece of 171 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: gravel in your hip that you missed when you were 172 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: clearing the campsite. And now look me in the eyeballs 173 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 2: and lie to me that you want to do that 174 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: some more. And listeners, I am six months pregnant as 175 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: of this recording, and I say with some confidence that 176 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: just walking down the aisle of a Greyhound bus at 177 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: this moment would prove a challenge. More likely, you feel 178 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: like you should want to do those things, and if 179 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: you feel that way, it's probably because someone else is 180 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: selling you on it. Speaking of Unlike Rusty, after the 181 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 2: move onto the bus, Andrea was still down with the 182 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 2: Warren Yakis and their message. I said before that she 183 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 2: owned innumerable tapes of Michael's preaching, and she continued to 184 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 2: listen to them all the time, and she believed a 185 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: lot of what they said, things like. 186 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 3: This, whoever causes one of these little ones who believe 187 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,839 Speaker 3: in me to stumble, it is better for him than 188 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: a heavy millstrong to be hung around his neck and 189 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 3: he'd be drowned in the depth of the sea. I mean, Jesus, 190 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 3: you're saying to kill yourself. 191 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Long after Rusty stopped engaging with them, Andrea sent 192 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 2: postcards to the Warren Yackies saying things like how lonely 193 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: she was and asking for advice. Rachel Warrennicki responded that 194 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 2: Andrea needed to just be better, be a better wife, 195 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: be a better mother. No instructions on how to do that, 196 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: just that if she didn't, her kids would probably go 197 00:14:52,560 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: to hell. While all this was happening with the Warren Yeckies, 198 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: Andrea continued to have children. By the time she had 199 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 2: her fourth child, Luke, her psychological state had significantly deteriorated. 200 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: She went into a deep postpartum depression. On Wednesday, June sixteenth, 201 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine. She called Rusty home from work. When 202 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: he got to their converted Greyhound, she said, I need help. 203 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: Rusty didn't know what to do, so he proposed a vacation. 204 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: Maybe a break from the normal would help, even if 205 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: just for a quick trip. He took them for a 206 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 2: drive to Galveston and they walked along the water. The 207 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: next day, he took them all to the home of 208 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 2: Andrea's parents. Maybe he thought she just needed more time 209 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: with her family, or maybe he thought her parents would 210 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: know what to do. Mid afternoon the same day, Andrea 211 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: wouldn't get out of bed. Her mom said, you need 212 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: to get up. Your child's needing to be fed. And 213 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: Andrea said she couldn't feed them. She'd just taken an 214 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: overdose and she didn't want them to get the drug 215 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: through nursing. At the emergency room, they induced vomiting. When 216 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: she was stable, they moved her to Methodist Hospital, where 217 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 2: she was diagnosed with depression with postpartum onset with psychosis. 218 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 2: Doctor Eileen Starbranch also prescribed Andrea antidepressants, anti anxiety medication, 219 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: and antipsychosis medication when she spoke with Andrea, though Andrea's 220 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: main goal was to stay off medication so that she 221 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: could breastfeed her child. A side note, most of these 222 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 2: kinds of substances are safe to take while breastfeeding. I 223 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: don't know exactly what her prescriptions were at this time, 224 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: but most of the time, contemporary doctors will encourage their 225 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 2: pregnant patients to continue taking drugs that stabilize their mental 226 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 2: health because your mental health is also important to the 227 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: life you're growing. When a social worker spoke to Rusty 228 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: about allowing their small children small as in three years old, 229 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: to handle power tools, Rusty bragged that Andrea had given 230 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: birth to all four of their children without medication. Doctor 231 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: Starbranch continued to see Andrea even after she discharged from 232 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 2: Methodist Hospital. She recommended medication changes from zoloft, an SSRI drug, 233 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 2: to Zyprexa, an antipsychotic used for treating bipolar, romania and schizophrenia. 234 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: Susie Spencer writes that Ziprexa is quote a drug reserved 235 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: for the most resistant cases as a last resort. A 236 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: one month's supply cost six hundred to seven hundred dollars, 237 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: depending on the strength. StarBridge handed Andrea a few samples 238 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 2: up the drug. Andrea Yates took the pills home and 239 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 2: flushed them down the toilet. So when Andrea was prescribed 240 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 2: medications for depression, she would do the thing that most 241 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: people do. She'd take them long enough to restabilize, and 242 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 2: then she stopped taking them and listeners, In case you 243 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 2: don't know, that's not how this kind of medicine works. 244 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,479 Speaker 2: It's not like taking advil for pain. Consistency is crucial 245 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: to these drugs working the way they're supposed to. I 246 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: still can't get a clear read on why Andrea was 247 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: so resistant to medication, except for the Warren Yaki's telling 248 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: her it made her weak, just a quick sidebar. Again, 249 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: medicine like this actually makes you stronger. Anyone who is 250 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 2: telling you that medicine makes you weak does not understand 251 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: the situation. They don't understand what it's like without the medicine, 252 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: and they certainly don't understand how literally life changing a 253 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 2: drug like this can be. When she returned home from 254 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: this first hospitalization, Andrea started pulling out her hair. She 255 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: started scratching herself. These are, without doubt forms of self harm. 256 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 2: Only four weeks later, the psychosis returned to Andrea full force. 257 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: She saw an image of a knife, and she heard 258 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: the words get a knife, get a knife. So she 259 00:19:55,119 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: got a knife. She was holding a steak knife to 260 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 2: her throat in the bathroom, trying to find the pulse 261 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: point when Rusty came in looking for her. Andrea said, 262 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 2: just let me do it. He didn't, of course, He 263 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 2: got the knife from her, and the next day she 264 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: was admitted to a new hospital, and even though Rusty 265 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: managed to persuade her into signing herself in for care, 266 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: she refused to sign a consent for medication form. By 267 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: one o'clock the next day, though they'd had to administer 268 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 2: an emergency shot of the antipsychotic heldall. That's when Andrea's 269 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: mother stepped in and said to Rusty, no more bus. 270 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 2: While Andrea was hospitalized, Rusty closed on a home in 271 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:58,959 Speaker 2: a safe suburban neighborhood. While at Memorial Spring Shadows Glen, 272 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 2: doctor James Thompson diagnosed Andrea Yates with major depressive disorder 273 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 2: severe recurrent with psychotic features. If psychotropic drugs did not work, 274 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 2: or if she would not take them, he recommended electroshock therapy. 275 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: On August tenth, Andrea started outpatient treatment back with doctor Starbranch. 276 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: Moving into the house had made Andrea feel like a failure, 277 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: even though Rusty said it would give him the opportunity 278 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: to complete some renovations. On the bus, Andrea said again 279 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 2: that she wanted to stop using all medications. Her reason 280 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: was that she wanted to have more children. Doctor Starbranch 281 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 2: wrote in her notes, Apparently patient and husband planned to 282 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: have as many babies as nature will allow. This will 283 00:21:51,640 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: surely guarantee future psychotic depression. After she gave birth to 284 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: their fifth child, Mary, psychiatrists prescribed Andrea medication for both 285 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 2: depression and psychosis. She saw things moving in the walls. 286 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: She heard the devil talking to her telling her to 287 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: do things. For example, when Andrea watched cartoons with her children, 288 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: quote the characters would speak directly to her and comment 289 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 2: on her, telling her she was a bad mother. The 290 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 2: same characters spoke directly to her children, telling them don't 291 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: eat so much candy and your mother is feeding you 292 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: too much cereal. That seems cruel enough. Characters from the 293 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: film O Brother where Art Thou also judged her and 294 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: said she was a Hellish influence. After a while, she 295 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 2: reported that the voices told her quote, my children were 296 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 2: not righteous. I let them stumble. They were doomed to 297 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 2: perish in the fires of hell, and they had to 298 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 2: die to be saved. But this didn't happen when she 299 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: took Haldall. Haldal is prescribed for quote psychotic patients hearing 300 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 2: voices or thinking delusionally. Later, doctor Lucy per Year, a 301 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 2: medical professor, further explained the patient usually functions normally as 302 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 2: a result of the medication, but is also subject to 303 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 2: recurrences when he or she goes off of it, so 304 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 2: it's important to be sure they're not at risk of 305 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 2: hurting themselves or someone else. Basically, Haldall stopped those psychoses, 306 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 2: but like many medicines and preventative care measures, they don't 307 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: work if you don't use them. Even while she was hospitalized, 308 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 2: Andrea was notorious for cheeking her medicine, which is the 309 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 2: inside term for hiding her medicine in her cheek and 310 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 2: then spitting it. Out. When Andrea became pregnant with their 311 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: fifth child in early March of the following year, which 312 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: was two thousand, she was off all medications. Andrea did 313 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: fine for a few months after Mary's birth. Two weeks 314 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: after Mary was born, Andrea threw a birthday party for 315 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: their third son. On the home video, everyone including Andrea, 316 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 2: seems to be in high spirits. And then Andrea's father 317 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 2: died in March of two thousand and one. At the 318 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 2: end of March, Andrea went into a deeper depression and psychosis. 319 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 2: And while Andrea's care at the previous hospital was great, 320 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 2: this new hospital Devereaux had a lot of problems. They 321 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 2: had twenty nine pages of complaints from September one, nineteen 322 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 2: ninety six to August third, nineteen ninety nine. Susie Spencer 323 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 2: says in Breaking Point. The complaints involved everything from neglect 324 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 2: to abuse to death, and twenty eight percent of those 325 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 2: complaints were found to be valid and the typical stay 326 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: there was only one to three days. Rusty asked one 327 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 2: of the professionals if her doctor was any good, and 328 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: they said they're all good. When Andrea was admitted to 329 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 2: Devereaux Hospital on March thirty first of two thousand and one, 330 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 2: Rusty asked her new doctor, Mohammed said to put her 331 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 2: on the same medications as before because they worked. He refused, 332 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 2: hal Dahl was an old drug. He put her on 333 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 2: a different antipsychotic, risperd All. The notes from this time 334 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 2: period are rushed and inconsistent. Sometimes nurses claimed Andrea was 335 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: near catatonic, refusing to bathe or participate in group therapies. 336 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 2: Doctor said sometimes wrote that she was up and about 337 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 2: when nurses said she hadn't left bed all day. So 338 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: because Andrea's compliance was poor and her condition was documented 339 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,719 Speaker 2: as improved by report, Rusty was shocked when he arrived 340 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 2: at six pm on April eighteenth, two thousand and one, 341 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: and Andrea's bags were packed. She was completely released from 342 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 2: Devereaux eighteen days after holding a steak knife to her 343 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 2: own throat. At that time, she had prescriptions for effectsor whalbutrin, Restoril, taylanol, 344 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: and milanta. Both her effectsor and while bututrin dosages had 345 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: been reduced, doctors made no mention of the antipsychotic Risperdol 346 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 2: at all. On Monday, June eighteenth, Rusty took Andrea to 347 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: the doctor and told him that she wasn't doing well. 348 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: He asked the doctor if her antidepressant could be changed. 349 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 2: The doctor said, quote, well, since it's not working anyway, 350 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: he would reduce the EFFECTSIR from four hundred and fifty 351 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: milligrams to three hundred milligrams. Rusty had read that effects 352 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 2: or shouldn't be reduced by more than seventy five milligrams 353 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: every three or four days, not one hundred and fifty 354 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: milligrams in one day, but the doctor said it was okay. 355 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 2: Rusty tried to intervene to advocate for her, but the 356 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: doctor didn't hear him. Rusty Yates went to the pharmacy, 357 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 2: got the new prescriptions filled, came home and gave them 358 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 2: to Andrea. That was Monday night. On Wednesday morning, their 359 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 2: children were all dead, drowned one by one at Andrea's hand. 360 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: When police arrived to find Andrea soaked, they also found 361 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: wet footprints outside the bathroom, which indicated at least one 362 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 2: child had known what was happening. Noah, the eldest boy, 363 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 2: had tried to run from Andrea, but she caught him. 364 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 2: On July sixteenth, two thousand and one, nearly one month 365 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 2: after the murders, the doctor at the Harris County Jail 366 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: telephoned Rusty. She said she was going to put Andrea 367 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: on well buttrin effectsor and haldall. Those were the same 368 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: drugs she'd been on before, the ones he had asked for. 369 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: If the doctors had listened to him, he said, my 370 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: kids would be alive, Andrea would be in recovery, and 371 00:28:46,480 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: we wouldn't be famous. Andrea Yates had held each of 372 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 2: her children face down in the full bathtub until they 373 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 2: asphyxiated by drowning, and then she laid the youngest four 374 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: side by side, soaking wet, under the covers on the bed. 375 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: The eldest was still floating in the tub when the 376 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: police arrived, the police that Andrea called. They arrested her immediately. 377 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: Rusty Yates was outside the house screaming, how could you 378 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: do this? I don't understand. Andrea sat drenched on the 379 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: love seat and barely looked up at him. The reporting officer, 380 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 2: Frank Stumpo, asked her, do you realize what you have done? 381 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: And she said, yes, I do. That's what she said. 382 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: And she did know what she had done, or she 383 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: wouldn't have called the police. But it wasn't as simple 384 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: as that. Her attorney, George Parnham, knew as much. He 385 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 2: would plead for her that she was not guilty by 386 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: reason of insanity. He said, for the defense of insanity 387 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 2: to be credible, one must be suffering from a severe 388 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: mental disease and as a result thereof does not know 389 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: what he or she is doing is wrong. Five children 390 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: were now dead by their mother's hand. But why in custody? 391 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: Andrea seemed to be almost completely unresponsive. If asked questions, 392 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 2: she would either not respond at all, or respond minutes 393 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 2: later asking for them to be repeated. In occasional moments 394 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 2: of clarity, she would scream and cry when she realized 395 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 2: her children were dead. She was psychologically evaluated many times 396 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: by many professionals. Not one of them ever suggested that 397 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 2: Andrea's condition was not authentic. One expert who later testified 398 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 2: in court was professor of psychiatry doctor Philip Resnik. After 399 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 2: hours of interviews, he said that, quote missus Yates had 400 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 2: the belief that children were not accountable for their actions 401 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: until they were ten years old. When someone is deeply 402 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 2: religious like that, I need to sort out to what 403 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: extent these ideas are held by her co religionists. He asked, Andrea, 404 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: if you had not taken their lives, where would they 405 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 2: have ended up? Andrea said, hell. She actually thought that 406 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 2: by taking their lives she was saving her children, She 407 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: was saving them from herself because of her hallucinations that 408 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 2: she saw and heard the devil in her mind, she 409 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: was the devil. The plan was, it seemed to save 410 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 2: her children from the devil by killing them and releasing 411 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: them to heaven, and then to save herself from the 412 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: devil by killing herself as well. While Andrea was being evaluated, 413 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: life outside the prison went on. I mean it didn't 414 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 2: not really. What I mean is Rusty and their families 415 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 2: had to bury their five children. They held one large, 416 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 2: moving funeral for all five of them. Rusty talked about 417 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 2: each of his children in a heartfelt eulogy, and their 418 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: likenesses are engraved above the grave that they share. So 419 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 2: are their ages, ranging from six months old to seven years. 420 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 2: The whole country was horrified at the case. Of course, 421 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 2: the Yateses were a normal middle class Christian family. It 422 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: not only couldn't have happened, it couldn't have happened to them. 423 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: Protesters showed up at the courthouse. They echoed the prosecution 424 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 2: that in her son John's fist was a lock of 425 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: Andrea's hair. He fought to survive. And Andrea completed the 426 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 2: murders in a single hour between when Rusty left for 427 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: work and when his mother was supposed to to show 428 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: up to help for the day she had planned it. 429 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 2: She had killed five children, her children, and then called 430 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 2: the police. Andrea should be immediately put to death. What 431 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 2: was there to discuss? Others rallied to support her, using 432 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: the opportunity to advocate for mental health rights and teach 433 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 2: others how to recognize its signs. Rusty Yates said this 434 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,919 Speaker 2: about Andrea after the murders my life. 435 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 4: I'm supportive of her. 436 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 3: You know. 437 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 4: It's hard because on one hand, I know she killed our children, 438 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 4: you know, But on the other I know that you 439 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 4: know the woman hears not the woman that killed my children. 440 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 2: Andrea's attorney, George Parnham said, if Andrea is not insane, 441 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,959 Speaker 2: then no one is. You can just wipe that term 442 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 2: from the books. To plead insanity, you have to know 443 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 2: what you did, but not know that what you did 444 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 2: was wrong, and that's really hard to prove. Especially when 445 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 2: your client can't help you, which Andrea couldn't. She was 446 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 2: almost entirely nonverbal at this point. So Parum decided to 447 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 2: hold a competency trial. It was set for Monday, August 448 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: twenty seventh, two thousand and one. Competency is different from sanity. 449 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 2: Someone can be competent and insane. When Parum defined competency 450 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 2: for the jurors, he said it hinged on two things. 451 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: Quote one sufficient ability to consult with the person's lawyer 452 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 2: with a reasonable degree of rational understanding, and two a 453 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 2: rational and factual understanding of the proceedings against the person. 454 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 2: What Attorney param wanted to show the jury is that 455 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 2: Andrea Yates was so incompetent at this moment that she 456 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 2: couldn't help her defense will defend her. She couldn't answer 457 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: simple questions. The hearing went on for an excruciating amount 458 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 2: of time. Both sides of the iss'le fiercely passionate in 459 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 2: their beliefs. All witnesses were aware of the intensity. One 460 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 2: statement that I personally found super impactful came from Joe Ombi, 461 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 2: the prosecution. He said to the jury, if you don't 462 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 2: find her competent, she will never be put to trial. 463 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 2: The defense objected and Judge Belinda Hill sustained it, but 464 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 2: she didn't order it struck from the record. Finally, after 465 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 2: three weeks of the hearing, on Saturday, September twenty second, 466 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: the juror stood and pronounced Andrea competent to stand trial. 467 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 2: Andrea Yates was subsequently tried for the murders of her 468 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 2: five children. One piece of evidence that seemed to sway 469 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 2: the verdict was the testimony of doctor Park Deets. He 470 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 2: said that because Andrea watched the television show Law and 471 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 2: Order regularly, she likely based her plan for murder on 472 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 2: an episode in which a mother drowns her children. It 473 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 2: implied premeditation, which implied sanity. After the court was presented 474 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,720 Speaker 2: with evidence and expert witness testimonies, Andrea Yates was ruled 475 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 2: guilty of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison. 476 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 2: She could have rest the death penalty. Rusty said in 477 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 2: a press interview after the verdict that none of us 478 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 2: wanted her to be found guilty. In fact, most of 479 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 2: us were offended that she was even prosecuted. The prosecution 480 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 2: said that the best possible outcome was serving justice for 481 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: the children, but that wasn't the end of it. A 482 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 2: reporter approached Andrea's defense attorney, Parum, she'd seen every episode 483 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 2: of Law and Order. There was no episode about a 484 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 2: mother drowning a child. It just didn't exist. Further scrutiny 485 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 2: revealed doctor park Deets's testimony, or at least that part 486 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 2: of it, to be untrue. With this false testimony, Parum 487 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 2: appealed Andrea's verdict. The case was retried in June of 488 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 2: two thousand and six, without the television shows Blueprint as evidence. 489 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 2: This time was different. This time, on July twenty sixth 490 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 2: of two thousand and six, Andrea was ruled not guilty 491 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 2: by reason of insanity. The jury said, yes, she knew 492 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 2: what she was doing was against the law, but she 493 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 2: also thought that what she was doing was right. Andrea 494 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 2: was confined and still is, to Kerrville State Hospital. She's 495 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,879 Speaker 2: now fifty seven years old, and every year she has 496 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 2: the opportunity for her situation to be reviewed. She's waived 497 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: her right to review every single year. Instead, she continues 498 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 2: her treatment. She and Rusty divorced but still remain in contact. 499 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 2: Rusty remarried and has become a father again. As a 500 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,240 Speaker 2: result of Andrea Yates's case. Texas now administers a screening 501 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 2: test for postpartum depression to all women who give birth 502 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 2: in the state. To write this episode, I drew heavily 503 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,399 Speaker 2: on the book by Susie Spencer about Andrea Yates called 504 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 2: Breaking Point. Now I get to talk to Susie Spencer herself. Hey, Susie, 505 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: thank you so so much for coming back to talk 506 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 2: to me about Breaking Point and Andrea Yates. 507 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about it. It's been a long 508 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: time since I've discussed that one. 509 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 2: How do you approach researching Andrea? Like what was the 510 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 2: moment of inception there? And what was that journey for you? 511 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: The monday after it happened, my agent called me up 512 00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: and said, would you like to do a book on this? 513 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: So I talked to my mom about that, who's was 514 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: my advisor on everything, and she said, someone's going to 515 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: do the book and you'll do it with more sensitivity, 516 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: So do it. The next day I called my agent 517 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,760 Speaker 1: and said, Okay, I'm doing it, And a few hours 518 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: later I was on the road to Houston, and so 519 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: I drove over there and the first thing I did 520 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: was drive by the church where the funeral was going 521 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: to be. Just got overwhelmed with that, you know, kind 522 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: of searched it out and tape recorded as much as 523 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: I could have nonchalantly, you know. And that's how it 524 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: all started. 525 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 2: Oh, that is a really beginning with a bang. Do 526 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 2: you have like a starting question when you go into 527 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 2: the research or you just open to what's happening. 528 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: On this This was all happening in the Houston area 529 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: and I live in Austin. I had zero contacts there, 530 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: and I was competing against the big names. It was 531 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: just kind of reading the newspapers and seeing who they 532 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,439 Speaker 1: had interviewed, and then going and knocking on doors or 533 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: another thing I would do is just hang out somewhere 534 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: and listen to the gossip. But the first time I 535 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: saw Rusty Yates, I think we were both walking into 536 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,399 Speaker 1: the courthouse and I recognized him immediately, and I went 537 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: up to him and I said, hey, Rusty, if you 538 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: want to avoid the cameras, go in this other way, 539 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: and he said, no, that's okay, thanks, And so that 540 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: was the extent of our conversation. I did not introduce 541 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: myself at all, and some way or other, I don't 542 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: remember how I met a woman who was going to 543 00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: the same church as Rusty. And one of the things 544 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: that shocked me is how Rusty had so many groupies, 545 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: people who were already dreaming of marrying him. 546 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 2: That's so weird. It's so weird. I'm sorry. 547 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,959 Speaker 1: Good yeah, it kind of blew me away. And so 548 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: she went to the church that Rusty was now going to. 549 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 1: They had not gone to a church previously, but because 550 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: of the funeral that he started going to this church, 551 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: and so I just went to kind of get a 552 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: feel of everything. And then all these sweet little old 553 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: ladies and the person I was with, the one who 554 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: had a crush on Rusty, said come on, and we 555 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: always have this after church pot luck. Come join us. 556 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: Our Sunday school is putting it on. We have really 557 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: good food. Come on. 558 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 2: And so it would be hard to turn down that 559 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 2: invitation at any church for me. 560 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: And the food was good, and Rusty was there, yep, 561 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: And to watch everyone just fawn over him. Oh, Rusty, 562 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,760 Speaker 1: would you like this? Rusty would you like that? And 563 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: so I was sitting near him and we just started talking, 564 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure at that point I said, look, Rusty, 565 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: I want you to know who I am Susie Spencer. 566 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm doing a book on this case, and so we 567 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: just started staying in touch. And then when the competency 568 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: hearing was supposed to start, that's when nine to eleven happened. 569 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: So all these big fancy names who had been wooing 570 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: Rusty disappeared. They were off to New York to cover that. 571 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 1: I was the only one left standing there in Houston. 572 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,960 Speaker 1: So Rusty and I started communicating more often. I explained 573 00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: it that he has tunnel vision, and it's what I want, 574 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: what I want, and nothing else is going to get 575 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:11,359 Speaker 1: in the way. Okay, my wife is suicidal and you 576 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: know everything's going horrible, but I can't deal with that 577 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: right now because I've got to do this project and 578 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't fit in with my life and my image, 579 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,319 Speaker 1: my images. I have the perfect family. I can't deal 580 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: with that. And I think that is his biggest downfall. 581 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 1: No offense, trustee, because I know he's not thrilled with me, 582 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: but that's I just see the tunnel vision. God willing, 583 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: he's grown out of that, but we all have that 584 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 1: to some degree. 585 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 2: Shifting gears a little bit. When you were talking with him, 586 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 2: or even afterward, was there a point where like where 587 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 2: you could not pinpoint but be like, this is the 588 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 2: breaking point. This is where the break happened. This is 589 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 2: where her train jumped the tracks. This is where some 590 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 2: early intervention could have potentially saved six lives. 591 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: I think there's numerous answers to it, and the very 592 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,839 Speaker 1: first one is choosing to have another child. Rusty was 593 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 1: told least I think he was told that if he 594 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,440 Speaker 1: had another child that surely she would go in to 595 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 1: postpartum depression and psychosis again. And every time it happens, 596 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: it gets worse and worse. And Rusty told me he 597 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: thought of it as the still just stuns me that 598 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: he said this. He thought of it as like you 599 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: were offered a brand new Mercedes for free or whatever, 600 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:56,959 Speaker 1: and if you took this Mercedes, you might get the flu, 601 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: but then you knew what the true was to get 602 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: over the flu when everything would be okay. So another 603 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: child was the Mercedes. But they knew what would happen 604 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,839 Speaker 1: to Andrea, and they knew how to treat it, and 605 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 1: so it would be okay. But it wasn't okay because 606 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: she did not get the proper treatment, as well as 607 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: the fact that it was made worse by the death 608 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: of her father. And Andrea, even though people don't believe 609 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 1: this was a very loving mother. 610 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,320 Speaker 2: I do believe that. I think that came across very clearly. 611 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 2: I get that intuitive leap that she made because she 612 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 2: was only ever around them and rusty, like she never 613 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 2: had a reality check. Voicing some concerns to a friend 614 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,360 Speaker 2: and the friend being like, what, no, that's exactly wrong, 615 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,879 Speaker 2: you know, like she didn't have that release valve right, 616 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,440 Speaker 2: she could just go deeper into it. 617 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 1: Her best friend was worried about her and tried to 618 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 1: come see her and communicate with her, and she was 619 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 1: just kind of shut out. The other people that she 620 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: had communication with was Michael Warrenecki and his family, the 621 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 1: traveling evangelist, and Lucy Purgier, who was the psychiatrist who 622 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: treated Andrea or was the defense expert witness spent a 623 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: lot of time with Andrea, and she told me Andrea 624 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: would have been mentally ill no matter what, but she 625 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,239 Speaker 1: would not have drowned the children without the influence of 626 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,799 Speaker 1: the warren Neckis, who taught her that all women are 627 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: witches and evil. 628 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 2: Well, thank you so so much for coming to talk 629 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:47,239 Speaker 2: to me again. 630 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, you could tell I've gotten a little heated up 631 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:56,759 Speaker 1: about this. My glasses are fogging everything. It's like this 632 00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: one just gets my emotions going yeah and just still 633 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,240 Speaker 1: it rips the soul, rips the soul. 634 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 2: Thank you again to Susie Spencer, both for talking to 635 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 2: me about this case and for writing the book Breaking Point, 636 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,359 Speaker 2: which helped me write this episode. Other sources include Investigation 637 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 2: Discoveries episode on Andrea Yates from their series The Crimes 638 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,879 Speaker 2: That Changed Us, and several news articles. All of these 639 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 2: sources are linked in our show notes. If you want 640 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,240 Speaker 2: to learn more, join me next week on The Greatest 641 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 2: True Crime Stories Ever Told for our episode about Pablo 642 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 2: Escobar's hostages. That's right in the nineteen nineties, the drug 643 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 2: kingpin of the Medaine cartel didn't want to be extradited 644 00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 2: to the United States, so he started taking hostages. Of 645 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 2: them were powerful women journalists. I'll tell you all about 646 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 2: it next week. For more information about this case and 647 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:14,040 Speaker 2: the others we cover on the show, visit Diversionaudio dot com. 648 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 2: The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told is a production 649 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,080 Speaker 2: of Diversion Audio. I'm Mary Kay mcbraer and I hosted 650 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,719 Speaker 2: this episode. I also wrote this episode, and if you 651 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,879 Speaker 2: like my writing, you should check out my book, America's 652 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,360 Speaker 2: First Female serial Killer, Jane Toppin and the Making of 653 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,440 Speaker 2: a Monster. One more thing before I go. If you 654 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,359 Speaker 2: haven't already, I'll love you forever. If you pre order 655 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,799 Speaker 2: my forthcoming true crime book, Madam Queen, the Life and 656 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:47,319 Speaker 2: crimes of Harlem's underground racketeer Stephanie Sinclair, there's a link 657 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,960 Speaker 2: to do it at your favorite retailer in our show's notes. 658 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,440 Speaker 2: Our show is edited by Antonio Enriquez. Theme music by 659 00:50:54,480 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 2: Tyler Cash, Produced by Emma Dumouth. Executive produced by Scott Waxman.