WEBVTT - Interpol's Paul Banks 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.356 --> 0:00:22.836 While Paul Banks is technically the lead singer of Interpol, 0:00:22.996 --> 0:00:25.076 he sees himself more as a member of a gang 0:00:25.116 --> 0:00:29.316 of musicians. Interpol formed in ninety seven after lead guitarist 0:00:29.396 --> 0:00:32.196 Daniel Kessler invited Paul, who was a student at NYU 0:00:32.236 --> 0:00:35.516 at the time, to watch the band rehearse. In two 0:00:35.556 --> 0:00:38.636 thousand and two, Interpol released their era defining album Turn 0:00:38.676 --> 0:00:42.476 On the Bright Lights, to widespread critical acclaim. At the time, 0:00:42.516 --> 0:00:44.796 they were lumped together with New York City's emerging indie 0:00:44.836 --> 0:00:47.196 sleeve's movement with bands like The Strokes and the Yeah 0:00:47.276 --> 0:00:51.596 Yeah Yeahs. Despite being pigeonholed by critics, the bands surpassed 0:00:51.676 --> 0:00:55.276 expectations with their sophomore album Antics in two thousand and four, 0:00:55.716 --> 0:01:01.236 further evolving their sound. September marks the twentieth anniversary of Antics, 0:01:01.276 --> 0:01:04.636 and to celebrate, Interpol is embarking on an international tour 0:01:04.756 --> 0:01:09.116 Will they play the album in its entirety? On today's episode, 0:01:09.276 --> 0:01:11.116 Rose talks to Paul Banks about how he wrote the 0:01:11.196 --> 0:01:14.596 lyrics to key tracks on Antics. Paul also explains why 0:01:14.636 --> 0:01:17.436 he hasn't listened to rock music in over twenty years. 0:01:17.956 --> 0:01:20.876 He also remembers watching a boxing match with John Fuschante 0:01:20.956 --> 0:01:24.156 and Rizza from Wu Tang and how John forever changed 0:01:24.156 --> 0:01:30.276 the way Paul thinks about musicality and hip hop. This 0:01:30.476 --> 0:01:33.356 is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:33.516 --> 0:01:34.436 I'm justin Mitchman. 0:01:35.156 --> 0:01:38.476 Here's Leah Rose's conversation with Paul Banks. 0:01:39.276 --> 0:01:41.076 Thank you for doing this, Thank you for being here. 0:01:41.716 --> 0:01:45.836 Curious about antics. So you're about to interpose about to 0:01:45.876 --> 0:01:50.196 go out on tour and perform the entire album. Have 0:01:50.396 --> 0:01:52.396 you ever been to any of these shows where a 0:01:52.476 --> 0:01:54.436 band performs an entire album. 0:01:55.556 --> 0:01:58.756 I don't think I have. But the first time that 0:01:58.796 --> 0:02:01.556 I remembered happening that I really wanted to go to 0:02:01.796 --> 0:02:04.556 was was a while ago, and it was Transam playing 0:02:04.596 --> 0:02:08.396 Future World in its entirety, And I feel like that 0:02:08.476 --> 0:02:10.516 was almost ten years ago, and it was like at 0:02:10.556 --> 0:02:14.236 like Union Pool in Brooklyn, maybe even longer, and so 0:02:14.396 --> 0:02:16.436 really like actually like the fact that I even remember 0:02:16.596 --> 0:02:19.076 all of that is because I really wanted to go, 0:02:19.476 --> 0:02:22.476 so anyway, that maybe predisposed me to feeling okay about it. 0:02:22.916 --> 0:02:25.436 I think, you know, we've been asked by like non 0:02:25.676 --> 0:02:28.316 like outlets that are not supportive of the band to like, 0:02:28.396 --> 0:02:32.236 come and do one of our records, and I've said 0:02:32.316 --> 0:02:34.876 no because I feel like I don't like this outlet 0:02:34.916 --> 0:02:37.036 and they're not supportive, and I even take it as 0:02:37.036 --> 0:02:38.356 a bit of a dig on the rest of our 0:02:38.396 --> 0:02:40.636 catalog that they're asking us to do this one record. 0:02:41.556 --> 0:02:44.356 So for them, I said no, But for everybody else, 0:02:44.396 --> 0:02:48.556 I feel like I actually don't dislike the concept of 0:02:48.676 --> 0:02:51.196 doing a whole album in a show. I think it's 0:02:51.236 --> 0:02:55.756 actually like a celebration of, you know, a portion of 0:02:55.796 --> 0:02:57.756 your catalog, and it's not really a comment on the 0:02:57.796 --> 0:03:01.356 rest of your catalog, right, But I think the trans 0:03:01.436 --> 0:03:04.876 Am example kind of got me predisposed to be favorable 0:03:04.916 --> 0:03:07.356 towards it, and then I think it's like a new 0:03:07.396 --> 0:03:09.676 thing that's kind of happening now see a lot of 0:03:09.676 --> 0:03:12.276 bands doing it, and rather than see that as some 0:03:12.396 --> 0:03:16.276 kind of like gimmick in any way negatively, I actually 0:03:16.316 --> 0:03:18.436 think it's really cool. And I think in the world 0:03:18.436 --> 0:03:22.436 of music and the business of music, having like a 0:03:22.556 --> 0:03:25.796 package to sell or a reason to motivate an audience 0:03:25.836 --> 0:03:27.516 to kind of like want to come and see a show, 0:03:27.956 --> 0:03:30.076 I think it's like it's good, good, good for us, 0:03:30.116 --> 0:03:32.116 good for other bands that have records that people might 0:03:32.116 --> 0:03:35.316 want to see top to bottom, and I actually enjoy it. 0:03:35.316 --> 0:03:37.356 And I feel like our fan base loves all of 0:03:37.396 --> 0:03:40.916 our records, and I think it's fun to just frame 0:03:40.956 --> 0:03:43.356 an evening around one in particular and just do a 0:03:43.436 --> 0:03:44.116 top to bottom. 0:03:44.916 --> 0:03:49.036 Yeah. I saw an old interview with Daniel and the 0:03:49.156 --> 0:03:53.476 person interviewing him was talking about Interpol's catalog and they 0:03:53.596 --> 0:03:57.756 said the first two albums are master works, and that 0:03:57.956 --> 0:04:03.596 sort of made the rest of the discography seems sort 0:04:03.636 --> 0:04:06.196 of like it wasn't up to par with the first 0:04:06.236 --> 0:04:08.796 two albums. And I felt exactly like what you were saying, 0:04:08.836 --> 0:04:10.556 like it was sort of like a dig on all 0:04:10.636 --> 0:04:12.636 the material, and I felt like it was kind of 0:04:12.716 --> 0:04:17.036 like not the best way to frame the work. I 0:04:17.076 --> 0:04:23.636 wonder about like the divide between critics and then the fans. Yeah, 0:04:23.716 --> 0:04:25.396 do you feel like you have to sort of block 0:04:25.436 --> 0:04:27.236 out the critical voice sometimes? 0:04:28.956 --> 0:04:32.796 I mean, I've blocked out the critical voice for fifteen years, 0:04:32.876 --> 0:04:37.196 I think so. Yeah. But at the same time, like 0:04:37.236 --> 0:04:39.476 if I was talking to someone that did frame our 0:04:39.516 --> 0:04:41.596 first two records in that way as being like these are, 0:04:41.676 --> 0:04:43.636 you know, master works, I don't take any of that 0:04:43.796 --> 0:04:46.636 stuff personally anymore either. And I think what we were 0:04:46.636 --> 0:04:48.836 saying before this interview start about kind of like the 0:04:49.636 --> 0:04:51.956 some humility that comes with age. It's like, I'm just 0:04:52.116 --> 0:04:53.996 very honored that people care a lot about those first 0:04:53.996 --> 0:04:57.596 two records, and I understand the way that like a 0:04:57.796 --> 0:05:01.436 band's first effort, like the first emergence, is always going 0:05:01.476 --> 0:05:03.956 to have a special place in people's heart. And I 0:05:04.036 --> 0:05:06.916 remember very keenly, like a lot of the second record 0:05:06.996 --> 0:05:09.356 was written towards the end of writing our first record, 0:05:09.396 --> 0:05:12.476 and we had kind of inter band discussions at the 0:05:12.516 --> 0:05:14.716 time like let's not take a break after the first one. 0:05:14.796 --> 0:05:17.516 That's like go, go go, and kind of really sort 0:05:17.556 --> 0:05:22.156 of solidify our entrance on the scene by doing a 0:05:22.196 --> 0:05:25.356 one to two punch. So I think even from our 0:05:25.396 --> 0:05:28.356 point of view before Antics even came out, we viewed 0:05:28.396 --> 0:05:30.796 it as like albums one and two are going to be, 0:05:30.996 --> 0:05:34.396 you know, this bundle in a way of like us 0:05:34.516 --> 0:05:36.956 making our entrance and then you know, not having a 0:05:36.956 --> 0:05:41.156 sophomore slump, but rather kind of like let's really establish ourselves. 0:05:41.196 --> 0:05:44.276 And at the time, Carlos wanted a big break and 0:05:44.316 --> 0:05:46.276 it was like we had to kind of wrangle him 0:05:46.316 --> 0:05:48.196 back to being like, man, this is not the time 0:05:48.276 --> 0:05:51.236 to stop right now. Let's let's keep going. So anyway, 0:05:51.316 --> 0:05:54.156 I cherished the fact that people love those first two records, 0:05:54.156 --> 0:05:55.916 and I think that there is a segment of people 0:05:55.916 --> 0:05:58.436 that are like, that's where they that's where they started 0:05:58.436 --> 0:06:00.916 and ended with us. But that's cool too, you know, 0:06:00.956 --> 0:06:03.236 if you love two records of ours, that's great for me. 0:06:03.596 --> 0:06:05.436 It's really interesting. Like I you know, read some of 0:06:05.476 --> 0:06:08.516 the feedback now from our fans on message boards and stuff, 0:06:08.516 --> 0:06:11.516 and likeur has it's like a new life, and that's 0:06:11.516 --> 0:06:14.476 like the first record post Carlos, and I think a 0:06:14.516 --> 0:06:17.356 lot of people that were might talk about the first 0:06:17.356 --> 0:06:19.796 two as like their own kind of category maybe wouldn't 0:06:19.836 --> 0:06:23.316 be fans of Elpintur, but our audience is, you know, 0:06:23.356 --> 0:06:25.036 so anyway, I don't take it personally. I don't take 0:06:25.076 --> 0:06:28.396 offense to a critic citing one and two is being special. 0:06:28.436 --> 0:06:31.996 But I prefer listening to the audience, who you know, 0:06:32.036 --> 0:06:33.076 seem to like all of it. 0:06:34.076 --> 0:06:37.476 Do you know what's responsible for Elpintour having a new life. 0:06:38.876 --> 0:06:40.556 It's actually it's not so much a new life. I 0:06:40.596 --> 0:06:42.596 think it might just be that maybe it's kind of 0:06:42.636 --> 0:06:45.676 contrarian for like diehard fans to be like I'm I don't, 0:06:45.756 --> 0:06:47.316 you know, it's not about the first two for me, 0:06:47.356 --> 0:06:50.436 it's about the fifth, you know, totally. But I also 0:06:50.516 --> 0:06:52.636 think Alpinor's is a you know, in our catalog. It's 0:06:52.676 --> 0:06:55.036 a really good record. And I think our fourth one 0:06:55.196 --> 0:06:58.396 was a It was a great record, but very challenging. 0:06:58.516 --> 0:07:00.716 It was a breakup record with Carlos, and then the 0:07:00.716 --> 0:07:02.476 fifth one was sort of us trying to figure out 0:07:02.476 --> 0:07:05.076 how to do it as a three piece, and I 0:07:05.116 --> 0:07:06.996 think there was just some magic to it, and I 0:07:06.996 --> 0:07:09.876 think it's aged well with our audience. But I think 0:07:09.916 --> 0:07:11.796 all of our records seem to be aging well. It 0:07:11.916 --> 0:07:13.716 just takes time for people to come around to them. 0:07:14.436 --> 0:07:18.556 How do you feel in general about talking about lyrics 0:07:19.236 --> 0:07:20.556 about lyrics that you've written. 0:07:21.236 --> 0:07:22.996 I don't mind. I just don't know if I have 0:07:23.036 --> 0:07:27.076 anything very meaningful to say about, you know, if anything, 0:07:27.076 --> 0:07:30.276 I think I can talk about like why I write 0:07:30.356 --> 0:07:32.516 lyrics the way I write them, more than like what 0:07:32.556 --> 0:07:34.876 am I writing about? If that makes sense. 0:07:36.236 --> 0:07:38.836 Are you conscious yourself what you're writing about or is 0:07:38.876 --> 0:07:41.876 it more just playing with words and feeling. 0:07:42.676 --> 0:07:45.396 It's more than just playing with words. But there has 0:07:45.476 --> 0:07:48.916 definitely been moments where I was of like trying to 0:07:48.956 --> 0:07:53.516 cultivate an automatic writing process. Like I think technically the 0:07:53.596 --> 0:07:56.316 term automatic writing comes from the Surrealists, and it has 0:07:56.356 --> 0:07:59.876 to do with sort of like just like vomiting out thoughts, 0:07:59.916 --> 0:08:03.196 and I think trying to kind of like stuff a 0:08:03.556 --> 0:08:06.436 straw into your subconscious and just like get that stuff 0:08:06.436 --> 0:08:11.156 straight out. And I feel that that phase that I 0:08:11.156 --> 0:08:13.476 don't even know if I really see myself there now, 0:08:13.516 --> 0:08:15.956 but that phase where I was really into the automatic 0:08:15.956 --> 0:08:18.876 writing component, I think it had to do with this 0:08:18.996 --> 0:08:22.556 idea that like the pure emotion or the pure experience 0:08:22.596 --> 0:08:25.316 of being a person is going to get a little cheap, 0:08:25.356 --> 0:08:28.876 and when I try and put it through a prism 0:08:29.076 --> 0:08:33.956 of language consciously because I'm going to be trying to 0:08:33.996 --> 0:08:37.596 package it for someone's experience of what I'm saying. Right, 0:08:37.676 --> 0:08:40.876 I think the true automatic is like just say what 0:08:40.996 --> 0:08:43.956 the soul is saying. I mean, in the early days 0:08:43.996 --> 0:08:46.356 I looked at it is that I found most lyrics 0:08:46.356 --> 0:08:49.276 and most music to be kind of phony, and like 0:08:49.356 --> 0:08:53.236 it's about kind of trying to package the experiences of 0:08:53.276 --> 0:08:56.196 life into this artificial sort of sit call me kind 0:08:56.196 --> 0:08:58.556 of way of like here's a relatable message, or like 0:08:58.596 --> 0:09:00.516 here's a story I'm going to tell you. And I 0:09:00.556 --> 0:09:03.036 always felt like my experience of life was like way 0:09:03.076 --> 0:09:06.636 more chaotic and visceral and emotional, and so I just 0:09:06.876 --> 0:09:08.356 whether or not it was like something that I was 0:09:08.356 --> 0:09:09.796 intensely trying to do. There was so much that I 0:09:09.796 --> 0:09:12.076 wasn't trying not to do, which was like, I don't 0:09:12.116 --> 0:09:14.236 want to be fake and just say some dumb shit 0:09:14.276 --> 0:09:19.276 that is supposed to be relatable in some digestible way 0:09:19.356 --> 0:09:22.196 about this is my experience. It's like life is this 0:09:22.316 --> 0:09:26.316 huge mystery of like alienation and pain for me and 0:09:26.476 --> 0:09:30.916 anguish and desire, and it's all a massive fog of chaos, 0:09:30.956 --> 0:09:32.956 and so why would I write in a way that 0:09:33.916 --> 0:09:38.396 isn't honest to that reality? Yeah, now, on the highest levels, 0:09:38.396 --> 0:09:39.996 I will look at someone like Bob Dylan in a 0:09:39.996 --> 0:09:43.316 song like Spanish Boots of Spanish Leather, which is a 0:09:43.436 --> 0:09:47.756 series of letters from a woman and a man back 0:09:47.756 --> 0:09:50.356 and forth where she's going on a vacation there together, 0:09:50.916 --> 0:09:53.516 and then as she continues writing letters, it becomes clear 0:09:53.556 --> 0:09:56.636 that she's not coming back. And then his final message 0:09:56.636 --> 0:09:59.556 in his last letter is he's been telling her the 0:09:59.556 --> 0:10:01.276 whole time, don't worry about sending me anything. I don't 0:10:01.276 --> 0:10:02.956 want you to do anything for me, just come home. 0:10:03.236 --> 0:10:05.716 And then finally when she says I'm not coming home, 0:10:05.756 --> 0:10:07.796 he says, okay, well, then send me some Spanish boots 0:10:07.796 --> 0:10:13.236 of Spanish leather. And that shit is fucking unbelievable. So 0:10:13.316 --> 0:10:15.996 I believe at the highest level you can use language 0:10:16.036 --> 0:10:19.356 to make very concise messages about the human experience. And 0:10:19.396 --> 0:10:21.836 maybe I'm just not there. But then I also think 0:10:21.836 --> 0:10:24.836 it's that I just don't care to do that because 0:10:24.876 --> 0:10:27.756 I think I like reveling in this sort of chaos 0:10:27.836 --> 0:10:31.036 version that I come from. 0:10:31.116 --> 0:10:33.836 Are you satisfied with what you write? Is there anything 0:10:33.836 --> 0:10:36.396 that you've written that you feel like you've really nailed 0:10:36.396 --> 0:10:40.036 it and you've been able to express yourself sufficiently or 0:10:40.076 --> 0:10:43.596 do you feel like it's always like not even close 0:10:44.156 --> 0:10:45.636 to what you're feeling inside. 0:10:46.116 --> 0:10:48.396 A couple times I've said things that yeah, I think 0:10:48.916 --> 0:10:52.156 I'm very happy with Yeah, but you know, but there's 0:10:52.156 --> 0:10:54.476 never a solution. I think it's maybe just kind of 0:10:54.516 --> 0:10:57.276 like putting words that are evocative of an experience so 0:10:57.396 --> 0:11:01.196 closely that someone might feel less alone when they hear it. 0:11:01.756 --> 0:11:04.756 In your mind, what are sometimes when you've gotten close 0:11:04.836 --> 0:11:08.236 to where you're you're happy with what you've written, or 0:11:08.316 --> 0:11:10.196 you feel like you a publish what you set out 0:11:10.916 --> 0:11:12.196 to express. 0:11:13.156 --> 0:11:14.996 I mean, if we you know on antics, for instance, 0:11:15.036 --> 0:11:17.036 the song not Even Jail has always been one that 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:19.436 I've been quite proud of. There was a lyric that 0:11:19.476 --> 0:11:22.636 came up I saw someone comment recently about and I'd 0:11:22.676 --> 0:11:26.276 forgotten this one, but it was you reach out to 0:11:26.316 --> 0:11:29.916 emptiness until the reaching out feels empty too. That's off 0:11:29.956 --> 0:11:33.036 of a song on Marauder. That's to me is like 0:11:33.116 --> 0:11:37.196 that's a truthful lyric of experience and a feeling that 0:11:37.276 --> 0:11:41.196 I've had, but it doesn't really provide any solution. It's 0:11:41.196 --> 0:11:43.396 just kind of like that's a way of talking about 0:11:43.436 --> 0:11:48.036 depression and like the struggle of being depressed. And so 0:11:48.116 --> 0:11:51.436 I suppose maybe there's something cheap in that that I'm 0:11:51.596 --> 0:11:53.916 just doing a snapshot of a feeling and I'm not 0:11:53.956 --> 0:11:56.676 actually putting it in a larger context or like providing 0:11:56.716 --> 0:11:59.716 a solution. But I kind of also don't care. I 0:11:59.756 --> 0:12:02.876 don't really feel responsible. I don't feel a responsibility to 0:12:02.916 --> 0:12:05.156 do better with my lyrics. I think I just do 0:12:05.276 --> 0:12:09.076 it for my own satisfaction and benefit. And again all 0:12:09.276 --> 0:12:11.676 so like because I have this view about like what 0:12:11.836 --> 0:12:15.756 language is. Sometimes I even just kind of find it 0:12:15.796 --> 0:12:18.916 kind of funny that, like, you know, like every argument, 0:12:18.956 --> 0:12:21.396 every side of any discussion, I feel like I can 0:12:21.396 --> 0:12:24.836 always sort of formulate like a viable counterpoint of like 0:12:24.916 --> 0:12:28.596 present any argument from any side. And I'm constantly, even 0:12:28.596 --> 0:12:31.236 in politics, I'm constantly trying to listen to sort of 0:12:31.276 --> 0:12:35.956 like how the other side puts together their stream of logic, 0:12:36.716 --> 0:12:38.596 and I'll find like, oh, this is where I feel 0:12:38.636 --> 0:12:41.876 like it gets disingenuous, but it's not really like but 0:12:42.076 --> 0:12:44.756 the way they're doing it is like you know, most 0:12:44.796 --> 0:12:46.756 of the language is true, but then they're kind of 0:12:46.796 --> 0:12:49.956 like getting deceitful with this little thing. But like a 0:12:49.956 --> 0:12:51.476 lot of people aren't going to pick up that. That's 0:12:51.516 --> 0:12:55.596 where they fall into like total bs. So anyway, I 0:12:55.636 --> 0:12:57.156 find like language just to be this thing that's like 0:12:57.236 --> 0:13:00.196 can be used for such manipulation, and I sort of 0:13:00.276 --> 0:13:04.676 feel disdained for participating in the manipulation and the deceit 0:13:04.836 --> 0:13:09.636 that language can weaponize. And so I think that's also 0:13:09.716 --> 0:13:11.916 part of why my lyrics are often kind of like 0:13:12.156 --> 0:13:13.916 they're just like outside of that whole game, Like I 0:13:13.956 --> 0:13:16.156 don't want to convince you of anything. I don't want 0:13:16.156 --> 0:13:21.116 to pretend to summarize anything. And also, these words themselves 0:13:21.156 --> 0:13:23.636 are providing some of the confines to what we're even 0:13:23.676 --> 0:13:26.756 able to express. So by sort of reshaping how words 0:13:26.796 --> 0:13:29.836 get put together, it's almost like maybe different ways of 0:13:29.876 --> 0:13:32.556 thinking can come from that. It's like putting the cart 0:13:32.636 --> 0:13:35.196 before the horse, like rather than you have the thought 0:13:35.236 --> 0:13:36.876 and find the language for it, like you find the 0:13:36.876 --> 0:13:40.836 thought by constructing language, and it's you know that's fun 0:13:40.836 --> 0:13:41.076 for me. 0:13:41.836 --> 0:13:45.796 Yeah, how do you get into that state? Like it 0:13:45.836 --> 0:13:48.876 seems like there would be some sort of like transition 0:13:49.036 --> 0:13:52.556 that needs to happen from normal life to a place 0:13:52.596 --> 0:13:56.076 where you're open subconsciously or you're trying to access this 0:13:56.236 --> 0:14:00.356 part of your brain. Is there something that you do? 0:14:00.636 --> 0:14:05.836 Is there something you imbibe? Take smoke sit somewhere particular? Like, 0:14:05.876 --> 0:14:07.196 how do you get into that place? 0:14:08.356 --> 0:14:12.756 I mean smoke weed? But I don't think it's necessary. 0:14:13.436 --> 0:14:15.716 I had a large phase, well no, a couple of 0:14:15.796 --> 0:14:19.356 years where I didn't do anything, and I know my 0:14:19.436 --> 0:14:23.036 work was I like my work from that phase. I 0:14:23.076 --> 0:14:26.836 think it's it's not needed. But I do smoke weed. 0:14:27.396 --> 0:14:30.396 I generally smoke weed when I'm playing music. Or writing music. 0:14:31.276 --> 0:14:32.836 But the other thing I would say about lyrics that 0:14:32.876 --> 0:14:35.076 has to do then it comes to answer your question, 0:14:35.476 --> 0:14:39.236 is that also I found in the first days of 0:14:39.316 --> 0:14:42.796 Interpol when I was I was writing some poetry and 0:14:42.876 --> 0:14:44.676 like doing journaling and things like that, and then I 0:14:44.716 --> 0:14:47.276 tried to put some things that I'd already written into 0:14:47.356 --> 0:14:50.876 an Interpol song and I immediately was like, that's horrible, 0:14:50.876 --> 0:14:53.356 and I hate it because the high hat pattern is 0:14:53.356 --> 0:14:55.916 doing this, and I definitely want the vocal to be 0:14:56.716 --> 0:15:00.636 completely tailor made to the bassline and the drums, and 0:15:00.676 --> 0:15:03.636 I'm not having a single extra syllable or a consonant 0:15:03.676 --> 0:15:06.596 in the wrong place or wrong vowel sound relative to 0:15:06.636 --> 0:15:10.436 the music. And I realized, like the music is first, 0:15:10.476 --> 0:15:12.676 and the kind of like the melody and the cadence 0:15:13.516 --> 0:15:16.276 has to be married to the to the music. I 0:15:16.276 --> 0:15:17.836 think when you hear like you know, Bob Dylan or 0:15:17.876 --> 0:15:19.876 Leonard Cones, sometimes I'll have like a real mouthful of 0:15:19.876 --> 0:15:22.236 a line and it's such great poetry that it doesn't matter. 0:15:22.276 --> 0:15:24.516 But like I was more interested in, like I don't 0:15:24.516 --> 0:15:29.316 want to shoehorn in great lyrics into the song if 0:15:29.356 --> 0:15:31.516 the song has a different kind of cadence, So I 0:15:31.636 --> 0:15:35.836 just started writing for the music. So the getting into 0:15:35.876 --> 0:15:37.996 the place to write lyrics has to do with like 0:15:38.076 --> 0:15:41.516 getting into the zone with the music, and that for 0:15:41.636 --> 0:15:42.916 me is just a matter of like I could just 0:15:42.916 --> 0:15:45.436 take a walk with headphones and then I'll start hearing 0:15:45.556 --> 0:15:48.076 vocal ideas and I don't need weed to do that. 0:15:48.156 --> 0:15:50.556 I just like to smoke weed and do that. 0:15:51.636 --> 0:15:53.916 Does that feel like a gift that you can come 0:15:53.996 --> 0:15:57.276 up with vocals and melodic ideas? 0:15:58.156 --> 0:16:00.516 It doesn't feel that way, but I do acknowledge that 0:16:00.636 --> 0:16:04.276 it's not something that I think everybody does and can do. 0:16:04.636 --> 0:16:08.276 And I can't do that, right, Yeah, no, I will 0:16:08.276 --> 0:16:10.356 hear I mean, And that's part what makes my partnership 0:16:10.476 --> 0:16:15.156 with Daniel special. Is also that many times when I 0:16:15.196 --> 0:16:18.516 try and write vocals for other people's music, I will 0:16:18.716 --> 0:16:20.436 just hit my head against the wall and I can't 0:16:20.476 --> 0:16:24.316 get anything. And I can get like the garbagest garbage, 0:16:24.716 --> 0:16:28.356 like the worst fucking lyrics and the worst melodies, and 0:16:28.556 --> 0:16:30.436 even the other person I can sense that they're kind 0:16:30.436 --> 0:16:32.556 of like, shit, that's not that thing that I was 0:16:32.596 --> 0:16:36.196 looking for from you, right, And so I think that 0:16:36.236 --> 0:16:38.116 you know, Daniel and I have a special chemistry where 0:16:38.116 --> 0:16:42.556 like his music in particular, I heard loads of things immediately. 0:16:42.596 --> 0:16:45.836 I hear like, oh I kind of do that, and yeah, 0:16:45.876 --> 0:16:48.476 even more so sometimes than with my own writing. You know, 0:16:48.516 --> 0:16:51.716 it's easier to write vocals to Daniel's chord progressions often 0:16:51.716 --> 0:16:55.236 than it is to write vocals to my own chord progressions. Yeah. 0:16:55.276 --> 0:16:57.996 So I think it's it's a gift, but it's a 0:16:57.996 --> 0:16:58.636 fickle gift. 0:16:59.956 --> 0:17:01.836 But how cool that you found each other. I mean 0:17:01.876 --> 0:17:05.316 I think about a lot that so many incredible groups 0:17:05.316 --> 0:17:09.676 that exist just happened to like go to high school together, 0:17:09.916 --> 0:17:13.036 you know, like you think about like outcast like big 0:17:13.076 --> 0:17:15.276 Boy and Andre just happen to be in the same 0:17:15.356 --> 0:17:17.956 high school at the exact same time and they're like 0:17:18.196 --> 0:17:19.396 perfect together. 0:17:19.556 --> 0:17:19.876 Yeah. 0:17:19.956 --> 0:17:23.556 Yeah, And what you're saying about Daniel, it's like that's 0:17:23.636 --> 0:17:25.556 just so amazing, Like how do you explain that? 0:17:25.956 --> 0:17:27.596 No, I know, I know what you mean. I think 0:17:27.596 --> 0:17:29.916 it's really I guess I was probably thinking about like 0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:32.636 idols the other day too, about kind of like how 0:17:32.636 --> 0:17:34.796 do you get like such like great vocalist and like 0:17:34.836 --> 0:17:36.796 this great guitar player, and like where did they meet? 0:17:36.836 --> 0:17:39.116 And like was that guitar player just like being awesome 0:17:39.156 --> 0:17:41.276 somewhere until some band came up to him and was like, 0:17:41.316 --> 0:17:45.316 do you want to be in this band? And uh, yeah, 0:17:45.356 --> 0:17:47.236 So basically to answer, I kind of and I think 0:17:47.276 --> 0:17:49.076 that the answer is sort of yes. I think that 0:17:49.156 --> 0:17:51.796 like when you're someone who's like a born artist, you 0:17:51.836 --> 0:17:55.596 are born to be a musician, You cultivate your own 0:17:55.716 --> 0:17:59.076 thing to such a high degree that you're not really 0:17:59.076 --> 0:18:01.836 interested in anybody that's not kind of at your level, 0:18:02.436 --> 0:18:04.716 and then I think that just automatically weeds out, like 0:18:04.756 --> 0:18:07.236 tons of people, and then you when you do find 0:18:07.276 --> 0:18:10.436 someone that is sort of either has slaved for their 0:18:10.476 --> 0:18:13.716 craft as much as you have or just has a 0:18:13.756 --> 0:18:16.956 similar sensibility and has given as much to their craft, 0:18:17.796 --> 0:18:19.996 then it's like kind of makes it easy. It's like, Okay, well, 0:18:20.036 --> 0:18:22.716 I feel like safe and like my time is worth 0:18:22.756 --> 0:18:26.196 it to spend it with you because I see in 0:18:26.236 --> 0:18:29.436 you what I see in me, and I haven't seen 0:18:29.476 --> 0:18:31.476 that in anybody else, and that's why I don't like 0:18:31.516 --> 0:18:33.156 bother jamming with anybody else. 0:18:33.596 --> 0:18:36.396 That's a really cool way to think about it. Yeah, 0:18:36.436 --> 0:18:39.476 but oftentimes does partnerships come when people are so young? 0:18:40.676 --> 0:18:44.036 I mean, also, I was not looking to meet somebody. 0:18:44.036 --> 0:18:45.756 I wanted to be a solo artist. I had no 0:18:45.836 --> 0:18:48.276 interest in being in a band, and I think Daniel 0:18:48.436 --> 0:18:50.876 just saw me. We did a study a broad thing 0:18:51.116 --> 0:18:53.036 in Paris, and I had my guitar with me and 0:18:53.356 --> 0:18:58.316 was trying to busk, and I think he just asked me, 0:18:58.316 --> 0:18:59.796 you want to come and see my band Rehearse like 0:18:59.836 --> 0:19:01.636 a couple. After we'd known each other for like a 0:19:01.716 --> 0:19:03.516 year and a half, and I went and saw him 0:19:03.556 --> 0:19:06.076 and he had Carlos in the band, and it was 0:19:06.116 --> 0:19:09.356 just like, Okay, this music is so excellent that now 0:19:09.396 --> 0:19:12.436 I'm interested in working with other people. But I, you know, 0:19:12.676 --> 0:19:15.036 other people had been around, I had jammed with other people, 0:19:15.036 --> 0:19:16.876 and I just didn't want to be in a band 0:19:17.276 --> 0:19:18.596 until I saw the right band. 0:19:19.556 --> 0:19:21.716 What was it about their sound that you were attracted to? 0:19:21.796 --> 0:19:24.036 Do you remember? Was it an energy thing or was 0:19:24.036 --> 0:19:24.676 it the sound? 0:19:25.996 --> 0:19:28.276 I mean, it's it's all of those things. And also 0:19:28.436 --> 0:19:31.876 just being like light years ahead of everything else I'd 0:19:31.916 --> 0:19:34.516 ever heard anybody doing, you know. I mean you meet 0:19:34.556 --> 0:19:37.396 a lot of people that are technically proficient, you know, 0:19:37.476 --> 0:19:39.916 within anytime, like within a five mile radius, there's like 0:19:39.956 --> 0:19:42.036 a thousand guitar players that are better than me at 0:19:42.156 --> 0:19:45.796 you know, technically better guitar players, but to be able 0:19:45.836 --> 0:19:49.156 to write music that's compelling like they, you know, Daniel 0:19:49.196 --> 0:19:51.756 and Carlos were playing PDA when I came to the 0:19:51.756 --> 0:19:56.396 first rehearsal, and it's like it was amazing music. And 0:19:56.796 --> 0:19:58.916 Carlos was someone who had ad he was in my dorm. 0:19:58.956 --> 0:20:00.996 He lived in my dorm, and I already like had 0:20:01.076 --> 0:20:03.076 seen him and was like, I love this guy. This 0:20:03.156 --> 0:20:04.836 guy's fucking crazy. 0:20:05.076 --> 0:20:06.956 What was he like back then? 0:20:07.356 --> 0:20:10.556 Well, he was in my dorm. I was like, however 0:20:10.556 --> 0:20:12.636 old you are freshman year of college. I was like seventeen, 0:20:12.716 --> 0:20:15.596