1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,356 --> 00:00:22,836 Speaker 2: While Paul Banks is technically the lead singer of Interpol, 3 00:00:22,996 --> 00:00:25,076 Speaker 2: he sees himself more as a member of a gang 4 00:00:25,116 --> 00:00:29,316 Speaker 2: of musicians. Interpol formed in ninety seven after lead guitarist 5 00:00:29,396 --> 00:00:32,196 Speaker 2: Daniel Kessler invited Paul, who was a student at NYU 6 00:00:32,236 --> 00:00:35,516 Speaker 2: at the time, to watch the band rehearse. In two 7 00:00:35,556 --> 00:00:38,636 Speaker 2: thousand and two, Interpol released their era defining album Turn 8 00:00:38,676 --> 00:00:42,476 Speaker 2: On the Bright Lights, to widespread critical acclaim. At the time, 9 00:00:42,516 --> 00:00:44,796 Speaker 2: they were lumped together with New York City's emerging indie 10 00:00:44,836 --> 00:00:47,196 Speaker 2: sleeve's movement with bands like The Strokes and the Yeah 11 00:00:47,276 --> 00:00:51,596 Speaker 2: Yeah Yeahs. Despite being pigeonholed by critics, the bands surpassed 12 00:00:51,676 --> 00:00:55,276 Speaker 2: expectations with their sophomore album Antics in two thousand and four, 13 00:00:55,716 --> 00:01:01,236 Speaker 2: further evolving their sound. September marks the twentieth anniversary of Antics, 14 00:01:01,276 --> 00:01:04,636 Speaker 2: and to celebrate, Interpol is embarking on an international tour 15 00:01:04,756 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 2: Will they play the album in its entirety? On today's episode, 16 00:01:09,276 --> 00:01:11,116 Speaker 2: Rose talks to Paul Banks about how he wrote the 17 00:01:11,196 --> 00:01:14,596 Speaker 2: lyrics to key tracks on Antics. Paul also explains why 18 00:01:14,636 --> 00:01:17,436 Speaker 2: he hasn't listened to rock music in over twenty years. 19 00:01:17,956 --> 00:01:20,876 Speaker 2: He also remembers watching a boxing match with John Fuschante 20 00:01:20,956 --> 00:01:24,156 Speaker 2: and Rizza from Wu Tang and how John forever changed 21 00:01:24,156 --> 00:01:30,276 Speaker 2: the way Paul thinks about musicality and hip hop. This 22 00:01:30,476 --> 00:01:33,356 Speaker 2: is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 23 00:01:33,516 --> 00:01:34,436 Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. 24 00:01:35,156 --> 00:01:38,476 Speaker 2: Here's Leah Rose's conversation with Paul Banks. 25 00:01:39,276 --> 00:01:41,076 Speaker 3: Thank you for doing this, Thank you for being here. 26 00:01:41,716 --> 00:01:45,836 Speaker 3: Curious about antics. So you're about to interpose about to 27 00:01:45,876 --> 00:01:50,196 Speaker 3: go out on tour and perform the entire album. Have 28 00:01:50,396 --> 00:01:52,396 Speaker 3: you ever been to any of these shows where a 29 00:01:52,476 --> 00:01:54,436 Speaker 3: band performs an entire album. 30 00:01:55,556 --> 00:01:58,756 Speaker 1: I don't think I have. But the first time that 31 00:01:58,796 --> 00:02:01,556 Speaker 1: I remembered happening that I really wanted to go to 32 00:02:01,796 --> 00:02:04,556 Speaker 1: was was a while ago, and it was Transam playing 33 00:02:04,596 --> 00:02:08,396 Speaker 1: Future World in its entirety, And I feel like that 34 00:02:08,476 --> 00:02:10,516 Speaker 1: was almost ten years ago, and it was like at 35 00:02:10,556 --> 00:02:14,236 Speaker 1: like Union Pool in Brooklyn, maybe even longer, and so 36 00:02:14,396 --> 00:02:16,436 Speaker 1: really like actually like the fact that I even remember 37 00:02:16,596 --> 00:02:19,076 Speaker 1: all of that is because I really wanted to go, 38 00:02:19,476 --> 00:02:22,476 Speaker 1: so anyway, that maybe predisposed me to feeling okay about it. 39 00:02:22,916 --> 00:02:25,436 Speaker 1: I think, you know, we've been asked by like non 40 00:02:25,676 --> 00:02:28,316 Speaker 1: like outlets that are not supportive of the band to like, 41 00:02:28,396 --> 00:02:32,236 Speaker 1: come and do one of our records, and I've said 42 00:02:32,316 --> 00:02:34,876 Speaker 1: no because I feel like I don't like this outlet 43 00:02:34,916 --> 00:02:37,036 Speaker 1: and they're not supportive, and I even take it as 44 00:02:37,036 --> 00:02:38,356 Speaker 1: a bit of a dig on the rest of our 45 00:02:38,396 --> 00:02:40,636 Speaker 1: catalog that they're asking us to do this one record. 46 00:02:41,556 --> 00:02:44,356 Speaker 1: So for them, I said no, But for everybody else, 47 00:02:44,396 --> 00:02:48,556 Speaker 1: I feel like I actually don't dislike the concept of 48 00:02:48,676 --> 00:02:51,196 Speaker 1: doing a whole album in a show. I think it's 49 00:02:51,236 --> 00:02:55,756 Speaker 1: actually like a celebration of, you know, a portion of 50 00:02:55,796 --> 00:02:57,756 Speaker 1: your catalog, and it's not really a comment on the 51 00:02:57,796 --> 00:03:01,356 Speaker 1: rest of your catalog, right, But I think the trans 52 00:03:01,436 --> 00:03:04,876 Speaker 1: Am example kind of got me predisposed to be favorable 53 00:03:04,916 --> 00:03:07,356 Speaker 1: towards it, and then I think it's like a new 54 00:03:07,396 --> 00:03:09,676 Speaker 1: thing that's kind of happening now see a lot of 55 00:03:09,676 --> 00:03:12,276 Speaker 1: bands doing it, and rather than see that as some 56 00:03:12,396 --> 00:03:16,276 Speaker 1: kind of like gimmick in any way negatively, I actually 57 00:03:16,316 --> 00:03:18,436 Speaker 1: think it's really cool. And I think in the world 58 00:03:18,436 --> 00:03:22,436 Speaker 1: of music and the business of music, having like a 59 00:03:22,556 --> 00:03:25,796 Speaker 1: package to sell or a reason to motivate an audience 60 00:03:25,836 --> 00:03:27,516 Speaker 1: to kind of like want to come and see a show, 61 00:03:27,956 --> 00:03:30,076 Speaker 1: I think it's like it's good, good, good for us, 62 00:03:30,116 --> 00:03:32,116 Speaker 1: good for other bands that have records that people might 63 00:03:32,116 --> 00:03:35,316 Speaker 1: want to see top to bottom, and I actually enjoy it. 64 00:03:35,316 --> 00:03:37,356 Speaker 1: And I feel like our fan base loves all of 65 00:03:37,396 --> 00:03:40,916 Speaker 1: our records, and I think it's fun to just frame 66 00:03:40,956 --> 00:03:43,356 Speaker 1: an evening around one in particular and just do a 67 00:03:43,436 --> 00:03:44,116 Speaker 1: top to bottom. 68 00:03:44,916 --> 00:03:49,036 Speaker 3: Yeah. I saw an old interview with Daniel and the 69 00:03:49,156 --> 00:03:53,476 Speaker 3: person interviewing him was talking about Interpol's catalog and they 70 00:03:53,596 --> 00:03:57,756 Speaker 3: said the first two albums are master works, and that 71 00:03:57,956 --> 00:04:03,596 Speaker 3: sort of made the rest of the discography seems sort 72 00:04:03,636 --> 00:04:06,196 Speaker 3: of like it wasn't up to par with the first 73 00:04:06,236 --> 00:04:08,796 Speaker 3: two albums. And I felt exactly like what you were saying, 74 00:04:08,836 --> 00:04:10,556 Speaker 3: like it was sort of like a dig on all 75 00:04:10,636 --> 00:04:12,636 Speaker 3: the material, and I felt like it was kind of 76 00:04:12,716 --> 00:04:17,036 Speaker 3: like not the best way to frame the work. I 77 00:04:17,076 --> 00:04:23,636 Speaker 3: wonder about like the divide between critics and then the fans. Yeah, 78 00:04:23,716 --> 00:04:25,396 Speaker 3: do you feel like you have to sort of block 79 00:04:25,436 --> 00:04:27,236 Speaker 3: out the critical voice sometimes? 80 00:04:28,956 --> 00:04:32,796 Speaker 1: I mean, I've blocked out the critical voice for fifteen years, 81 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:37,196 Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. But at the same time, like 82 00:04:37,236 --> 00:04:39,476 Speaker 1: if I was talking to someone that did frame our 83 00:04:39,516 --> 00:04:41,596 Speaker 1: first two records in that way as being like these are, 84 00:04:41,676 --> 00:04:43,636 Speaker 1: you know, master works, I don't take any of that 85 00:04:43,796 --> 00:04:46,636 Speaker 1: stuff personally anymore either. And I think what we were 86 00:04:46,636 --> 00:04:48,836 Speaker 1: saying before this interview start about kind of like the 87 00:04:49,636 --> 00:04:51,956 Speaker 1: some humility that comes with age. It's like, I'm just 88 00:04:52,116 --> 00:04:53,996 Speaker 1: very honored that people care a lot about those first 89 00:04:53,996 --> 00:04:57,596 Speaker 1: two records, and I understand the way that like a 90 00:04:57,796 --> 00:05:01,436 Speaker 1: band's first effort, like the first emergence, is always going 91 00:05:01,476 --> 00:05:03,956 Speaker 1: to have a special place in people's heart. And I 92 00:05:04,036 --> 00:05:06,916 Speaker 1: remember very keenly, like a lot of the second record 93 00:05:06,996 --> 00:05:09,356 Speaker 1: was written towards the end of writing our first record, 94 00:05:09,396 --> 00:05:12,476 Speaker 1: and we had kind of inter band discussions at the 95 00:05:12,516 --> 00:05:14,716 Speaker 1: time like let's not take a break after the first one. 96 00:05:14,796 --> 00:05:17,516 Speaker 1: That's like go, go go, and kind of really sort 97 00:05:17,556 --> 00:05:22,156 Speaker 1: of solidify our entrance on the scene by doing a 98 00:05:22,196 --> 00:05:25,356 Speaker 1: one to two punch. So I think even from our 99 00:05:25,396 --> 00:05:28,356 Speaker 1: point of view before Antics even came out, we viewed 100 00:05:28,396 --> 00:05:30,796 Speaker 1: it as like albums one and two are going to be, 101 00:05:30,996 --> 00:05:34,396 Speaker 1: you know, this bundle in a way of like us 102 00:05:34,516 --> 00:05:36,956 Speaker 1: making our entrance and then you know, not having a 103 00:05:36,956 --> 00:05:41,156 Speaker 1: sophomore slump, but rather kind of like let's really establish ourselves. 104 00:05:41,196 --> 00:05:44,276 Speaker 1: And at the time, Carlos wanted a big break and 105 00:05:44,316 --> 00:05:46,276 Speaker 1: it was like we had to kind of wrangle him 106 00:05:46,316 --> 00:05:48,196 Speaker 1: back to being like, man, this is not the time 107 00:05:48,276 --> 00:05:51,236 Speaker 1: to stop right now. Let's let's keep going. So anyway, 108 00:05:51,316 --> 00:05:54,156 Speaker 1: I cherished the fact that people love those first two records, 109 00:05:54,156 --> 00:05:55,916 Speaker 1: and I think that there is a segment of people 110 00:05:55,916 --> 00:05:58,436 Speaker 1: that are like, that's where they that's where they started 111 00:05:58,436 --> 00:06:00,916 Speaker 1: and ended with us. But that's cool too, you know, 112 00:06:00,956 --> 00:06:03,236 Speaker 1: if you love two records of ours, that's great for me. 113 00:06:03,596 --> 00:06:05,436 Speaker 1: It's really interesting. Like I you know, read some of 114 00:06:05,476 --> 00:06:08,516 Speaker 1: the feedback now from our fans on message boards and stuff, 115 00:06:08,516 --> 00:06:11,516 Speaker 1: and likeur has it's like a new life, and that's 116 00:06:11,516 --> 00:06:14,476 Speaker 1: like the first record post Carlos, and I think a 117 00:06:14,516 --> 00:06:17,356 Speaker 1: lot of people that were might talk about the first 118 00:06:17,356 --> 00:06:19,796 Speaker 1: two as like their own kind of category maybe wouldn't 119 00:06:19,836 --> 00:06:23,316 Speaker 1: be fans of Elpintur, but our audience is, you know, 120 00:06:23,356 --> 00:06:25,036 Speaker 1: so anyway, I don't take it personally. I don't take 121 00:06:25,076 --> 00:06:28,396 Speaker 1: offense to a critic citing one and two is being special. 122 00:06:28,436 --> 00:06:31,996 Speaker 1: But I prefer listening to the audience, who you know, 123 00:06:32,036 --> 00:06:33,076 Speaker 1: seem to like all of it. 124 00:06:34,076 --> 00:06:37,476 Speaker 3: Do you know what's responsible for Elpintour having a new life. 125 00:06:38,876 --> 00:06:40,556 Speaker 1: It's actually it's not so much a new life. I 126 00:06:40,596 --> 00:06:42,596 Speaker 1: think it might just be that maybe it's kind of 127 00:06:42,636 --> 00:06:45,676 Speaker 1: contrarian for like diehard fans to be like I'm I don't, 128 00:06:45,756 --> 00:06:47,316 Speaker 1: you know, it's not about the first two for me, 129 00:06:47,356 --> 00:06:50,436 Speaker 1: it's about the fifth, you know, totally. But I also 130 00:06:50,516 --> 00:06:52,636 Speaker 1: think Alpinor's is a you know, in our catalog. It's 131 00:06:52,676 --> 00:06:55,036 Speaker 1: a really good record. And I think our fourth one 132 00:06:55,196 --> 00:06:58,396 Speaker 1: was a It was a great record, but very challenging. 133 00:06:58,516 --> 00:07:00,716 Speaker 1: It was a breakup record with Carlos, and then the 134 00:07:00,716 --> 00:07:02,476 Speaker 1: fifth one was sort of us trying to figure out 135 00:07:02,476 --> 00:07:05,076 Speaker 1: how to do it as a three piece, and I 136 00:07:05,116 --> 00:07:06,996 Speaker 1: think there was just some magic to it, and I 137 00:07:06,996 --> 00:07:09,876 Speaker 1: think it's aged well with our audience. But I think 138 00:07:09,916 --> 00:07:11,796 Speaker 1: all of our records seem to be aging well. It 139 00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:13,716 Speaker 1: just takes time for people to come around to them. 140 00:07:14,436 --> 00:07:18,556 Speaker 3: How do you feel in general about talking about lyrics 141 00:07:19,236 --> 00:07:20,556 Speaker 3: about lyrics that you've written. 142 00:07:21,236 --> 00:07:22,996 Speaker 1: I don't mind. I just don't know if I have 143 00:07:23,036 --> 00:07:27,076 Speaker 1: anything very meaningful to say about, you know, if anything, 144 00:07:27,076 --> 00:07:30,276 Speaker 1: I think I can talk about like why I write 145 00:07:30,356 --> 00:07:32,516 Speaker 1: lyrics the way I write them, more than like what 146 00:07:32,556 --> 00:07:34,876 Speaker 1: am I writing about? If that makes sense. 147 00:07:36,236 --> 00:07:38,836 Speaker 3: Are you conscious yourself what you're writing about or is 148 00:07:38,876 --> 00:07:41,876 Speaker 3: it more just playing with words and feeling. 149 00:07:42,676 --> 00:07:45,396 Speaker 1: It's more than just playing with words. But there has 150 00:07:45,476 --> 00:07:48,916 Speaker 1: definitely been moments where I was of like trying to 151 00:07:48,956 --> 00:07:53,516 Speaker 1: cultivate an automatic writing process. Like I think technically the 152 00:07:53,596 --> 00:07:56,316 Speaker 1: term automatic writing comes from the Surrealists, and it has 153 00:07:56,356 --> 00:07:59,876 Speaker 1: to do with sort of like just like vomiting out thoughts, 154 00:07:59,916 --> 00:08:03,196 Speaker 1: and I think trying to kind of like stuff a 155 00:08:03,556 --> 00:08:06,436 Speaker 1: straw into your subconscious and just like get that stuff 156 00:08:06,436 --> 00:08:11,156 Speaker 1: straight out. And I feel that that phase that I 157 00:08:11,156 --> 00:08:13,476 Speaker 1: don't even know if I really see myself there now, 158 00:08:13,516 --> 00:08:15,956 Speaker 1: but that phase where I was really into the automatic 159 00:08:15,956 --> 00:08:18,876 Speaker 1: writing component, I think it had to do with this 160 00:08:18,996 --> 00:08:22,556 Speaker 1: idea that like the pure emotion or the pure experience 161 00:08:22,596 --> 00:08:25,316 Speaker 1: of being a person is going to get a little cheap, 162 00:08:25,356 --> 00:08:28,876 Speaker 1: and when I try and put it through a prism 163 00:08:29,076 --> 00:08:33,956 Speaker 1: of language consciously because I'm going to be trying to 164 00:08:33,996 --> 00:08:37,596 Speaker 1: package it for someone's experience of what I'm saying. Right, 165 00:08:37,676 --> 00:08:40,876 Speaker 1: I think the true automatic is like just say what 166 00:08:40,996 --> 00:08:43,956 Speaker 1: the soul is saying. I mean, in the early days 167 00:08:43,996 --> 00:08:46,356 Speaker 1: I looked at it is that I found most lyrics 168 00:08:46,356 --> 00:08:49,276 Speaker 1: and most music to be kind of phony, and like 169 00:08:49,356 --> 00:08:53,236 Speaker 1: it's about kind of trying to package the experiences of 170 00:08:53,276 --> 00:08:56,196 Speaker 1: life into this artificial sort of sit call me kind 171 00:08:56,196 --> 00:08:58,556 Speaker 1: of way of like here's a relatable message, or like 172 00:08:58,596 --> 00:09:00,516 Speaker 1: here's a story I'm going to tell you. And I 173 00:09:00,556 --> 00:09:03,036 Speaker 1: always felt like my experience of life was like way 174 00:09:03,076 --> 00:09:06,636 Speaker 1: more chaotic and visceral and emotional, and so I just 175 00:09:06,876 --> 00:09:08,356 Speaker 1: whether or not it was like something that I was 176 00:09:08,356 --> 00:09:09,796 Speaker 1: intensely trying to do. There was so much that I 177 00:09:09,796 --> 00:09:12,076 Speaker 1: wasn't trying not to do, which was like, I don't 178 00:09:12,116 --> 00:09:14,236 Speaker 1: want to be fake and just say some dumb shit 179 00:09:14,276 --> 00:09:19,276 Speaker 1: that is supposed to be relatable in some digestible way 180 00:09:19,356 --> 00:09:22,196 Speaker 1: about this is my experience. It's like life is this 181 00:09:22,316 --> 00:09:26,316 Speaker 1: huge mystery of like alienation and pain for me and 182 00:09:26,476 --> 00:09:30,916 Speaker 1: anguish and desire, and it's all a massive fog of chaos, 183 00:09:30,956 --> 00:09:32,956 Speaker 1: and so why would I write in a way that 184 00:09:33,916 --> 00:09:38,396 Speaker 1: isn't honest to that reality? Yeah, now, on the highest levels, 185 00:09:38,396 --> 00:09:39,996 Speaker 1: I will look at someone like Bob Dylan in a 186 00:09:39,996 --> 00:09:43,316 Speaker 1: song like Spanish Boots of Spanish Leather, which is a 187 00:09:43,436 --> 00:09:47,756 Speaker 1: series of letters from a woman and a man back 188 00:09:47,756 --> 00:09:50,356 Speaker 1: and forth where she's going on a vacation there together, 189 00:09:50,916 --> 00:09:53,516 Speaker 1: and then as she continues writing letters, it becomes clear 190 00:09:53,556 --> 00:09:56,636 Speaker 1: that she's not coming back. And then his final message 191 00:09:56,636 --> 00:09:59,556 Speaker 1: in his last letter is he's been telling her the 192 00:09:59,556 --> 00:10:01,276 Speaker 1: whole time, don't worry about sending me anything. I don't 193 00:10:01,276 --> 00:10:02,956 Speaker 1: want you to do anything for me, just come home. 194 00:10:03,236 --> 00:10:05,716 Speaker 1: And then finally when she says I'm not coming home, 195 00:10:05,756 --> 00:10:07,796 Speaker 1: he says, okay, well, then send me some Spanish boots 196 00:10:07,796 --> 00:10:13,236 Speaker 1: of Spanish leather. And that shit is fucking unbelievable. So 197 00:10:13,316 --> 00:10:15,996 Speaker 1: I believe at the highest level you can use language 198 00:10:16,036 --> 00:10:19,356 Speaker 1: to make very concise messages about the human experience. And 199 00:10:19,396 --> 00:10:21,836 Speaker 1: maybe I'm just not there. But then I also think 200 00:10:21,836 --> 00:10:24,836 Speaker 1: it's that I just don't care to do that because 201 00:10:24,876 --> 00:10:27,756 Speaker 1: I think I like reveling in this sort of chaos 202 00:10:27,836 --> 00:10:31,036 Speaker 1: version that I come from. 203 00:10:31,116 --> 00:10:33,836 Speaker 3: Are you satisfied with what you write? Is there anything 204 00:10:33,836 --> 00:10:36,396 Speaker 3: that you've written that you feel like you've really nailed 205 00:10:36,396 --> 00:10:40,036 Speaker 3: it and you've been able to express yourself sufficiently or 206 00:10:40,076 --> 00:10:43,596 Speaker 3: do you feel like it's always like not even close 207 00:10:44,156 --> 00:10:45,636 Speaker 3: to what you're feeling inside. 208 00:10:46,116 --> 00:10:48,396 Speaker 1: A couple times I've said things that yeah, I think 209 00:10:48,916 --> 00:10:52,156 Speaker 1: I'm very happy with Yeah, but you know, but there's 210 00:10:52,156 --> 00:10:54,476 Speaker 1: never a solution. I think it's maybe just kind of 211 00:10:54,516 --> 00:10:57,276 Speaker 1: like putting words that are evocative of an experience so 212 00:10:57,396 --> 00:11:01,196 Speaker 1: closely that someone might feel less alone when they hear it. 213 00:11:01,756 --> 00:11:04,756 Speaker 3: In your mind, what are sometimes when you've gotten close 214 00:11:04,836 --> 00:11:08,236 Speaker 3: to where you're you're happy with what you've written, or 215 00:11:08,316 --> 00:11:10,196 Speaker 3: you feel like you a publish what you set out 216 00:11:10,916 --> 00:11:12,196 Speaker 3: to express. 217 00:11:13,156 --> 00:11:14,996 Speaker 1: I mean, if we you know on antics, for instance, 218 00:11:15,036 --> 00:11:17,036 Speaker 1: the song not Even Jail has always been one that 219 00:11:17,036 --> 00:11:19,436 Speaker 1: I've been quite proud of. There was a lyric that 220 00:11:19,476 --> 00:11:22,636 Speaker 1: came up I saw someone comment recently about and I'd 221 00:11:22,676 --> 00:11:26,276 Speaker 1: forgotten this one, but it was you reach out to 222 00:11:26,316 --> 00:11:29,916 Speaker 1: emptiness until the reaching out feels empty too. That's off 223 00:11:29,956 --> 00:11:33,036 Speaker 1: of a song on Marauder. That's to me is like 224 00:11:33,116 --> 00:11:37,196 Speaker 1: that's a truthful lyric of experience and a feeling that 225 00:11:37,276 --> 00:11:41,196 Speaker 1: I've had, but it doesn't really provide any solution. It's 226 00:11:41,196 --> 00:11:43,396 Speaker 1: just kind of like that's a way of talking about 227 00:11:43,436 --> 00:11:48,036 Speaker 1: depression and like the struggle of being depressed. And so 228 00:11:48,116 --> 00:11:51,436 Speaker 1: I suppose maybe there's something cheap in that that I'm 229 00:11:51,596 --> 00:11:53,916 Speaker 1: just doing a snapshot of a feeling and I'm not 230 00:11:53,956 --> 00:11:56,676 Speaker 1: actually putting it in a larger context or like providing 231 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:59,716 Speaker 1: a solution. But I kind of also don't care. I 232 00:11:59,756 --> 00:12:02,876 Speaker 1: don't really feel responsible. I don't feel a responsibility to 233 00:12:02,916 --> 00:12:05,156 Speaker 1: do better with my lyrics. I think I just do 234 00:12:05,276 --> 00:12:09,076 Speaker 1: it for my own satisfaction and benefit. And again all 235 00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:11,676 Speaker 1: so like because I have this view about like what 236 00:12:11,836 --> 00:12:15,756 Speaker 1: language is. Sometimes I even just kind of find it 237 00:12:15,796 --> 00:12:18,916 Speaker 1: kind of funny that, like, you know, like every argument, 238 00:12:18,956 --> 00:12:21,396 Speaker 1: every side of any discussion, I feel like I can 239 00:12:21,396 --> 00:12:24,836 Speaker 1: always sort of formulate like a viable counterpoint of like 240 00:12:24,916 --> 00:12:28,596 Speaker 1: present any argument from any side. And I'm constantly, even 241 00:12:28,596 --> 00:12:31,236 Speaker 1: in politics, I'm constantly trying to listen to sort of 242 00:12:31,276 --> 00:12:35,956 Speaker 1: like how the other side puts together their stream of logic, 243 00:12:36,716 --> 00:12:38,596 Speaker 1: and I'll find like, oh, this is where I feel 244 00:12:38,636 --> 00:12:41,876 Speaker 1: like it gets disingenuous, but it's not really like but 245 00:12:42,076 --> 00:12:44,756 Speaker 1: the way they're doing it is like you know, most 246 00:12:44,796 --> 00:12:46,756 Speaker 1: of the language is true, but then they're kind of 247 00:12:46,796 --> 00:12:49,956 Speaker 1: like getting deceitful with this little thing. But like a 248 00:12:49,956 --> 00:12:51,476 Speaker 1: lot of people aren't going to pick up that. That's 249 00:12:51,516 --> 00:12:55,596 Speaker 1: where they fall into like total bs. So anyway, I 250 00:12:55,636 --> 00:12:57,156 Speaker 1: find like language just to be this thing that's like 251 00:12:57,236 --> 00:13:00,196 Speaker 1: can be used for such manipulation, and I sort of 252 00:13:00,276 --> 00:13:04,676 Speaker 1: feel disdained for participating in the manipulation and the deceit 253 00:13:04,836 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 1: that language can weaponize. And so I think that's also 254 00:13:09,716 --> 00:13:11,916 Speaker 1: part of why my lyrics are often kind of like 255 00:13:12,156 --> 00:13:13,916 Speaker 1: they're just like outside of that whole game, Like I 256 00:13:13,956 --> 00:13:16,156 Speaker 1: don't want to convince you of anything. I don't want 257 00:13:16,156 --> 00:13:21,116 Speaker 1: to pretend to summarize anything. And also, these words themselves 258 00:13:21,156 --> 00:13:23,636 Speaker 1: are providing some of the confines to what we're even 259 00:13:23,676 --> 00:13:26,756 Speaker 1: able to express. So by sort of reshaping how words 260 00:13:26,796 --> 00:13:29,836 Speaker 1: get put together, it's almost like maybe different ways of 261 00:13:29,876 --> 00:13:32,556 Speaker 1: thinking can come from that. It's like putting the cart 262 00:13:32,636 --> 00:13:35,196 Speaker 1: before the horse, like rather than you have the thought 263 00:13:35,236 --> 00:13:36,876 Speaker 1: and find the language for it, like you find the 264 00:13:36,876 --> 00:13:40,836 Speaker 1: thought by constructing language, and it's you know that's fun 265 00:13:40,836 --> 00:13:41,076 Speaker 1: for me. 266 00:13:41,836 --> 00:13:45,796 Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you get into that state? Like it 267 00:13:45,836 --> 00:13:48,876 Speaker 3: seems like there would be some sort of like transition 268 00:13:49,036 --> 00:13:52,556 Speaker 3: that needs to happen from normal life to a place 269 00:13:52,596 --> 00:13:56,076 Speaker 3: where you're open subconsciously or you're trying to access this 270 00:13:56,236 --> 00:14:00,356 Speaker 3: part of your brain. Is there something that you do? 271 00:14:00,636 --> 00:14:05,836 Speaker 3: Is there something you imbibe? Take smoke sit somewhere particular? Like, 272 00:14:05,876 --> 00:14:07,196 Speaker 3: how do you get into that place? 273 00:14:08,356 --> 00:14:12,756 Speaker 1: I mean smoke weed? But I don't think it's necessary. 274 00:14:13,436 --> 00:14:15,716 Speaker 1: I had a large phase, well no, a couple of 275 00:14:15,796 --> 00:14:19,356 Speaker 1: years where I didn't do anything, and I know my 276 00:14:19,436 --> 00:14:23,036 Speaker 1: work was I like my work from that phase. I 277 00:14:23,076 --> 00:14:26,836 Speaker 1: think it's it's not needed. But I do smoke weed. 278 00:14:27,396 --> 00:14:30,396 Speaker 1: I generally smoke weed when I'm playing music. Or writing music. 279 00:14:31,276 --> 00:14:32,836 Speaker 1: But the other thing I would say about lyrics that 280 00:14:32,876 --> 00:14:35,076 Speaker 1: has to do then it comes to answer your question, 281 00:14:35,476 --> 00:14:39,236 Speaker 1: is that also I found in the first days of 282 00:14:39,316 --> 00:14:42,796 Speaker 1: Interpol when I was I was writing some poetry and 283 00:14:42,876 --> 00:14:44,676 Speaker 1: like doing journaling and things like that, and then I 284 00:14:44,716 --> 00:14:47,276 Speaker 1: tried to put some things that I'd already written into 285 00:14:47,356 --> 00:14:50,876 Speaker 1: an Interpol song and I immediately was like, that's horrible, 286 00:14:50,876 --> 00:14:53,356 Speaker 1: and I hate it because the high hat pattern is 287 00:14:53,356 --> 00:14:55,916 Speaker 1: doing this, and I definitely want the vocal to be 288 00:14:56,716 --> 00:15:00,636 Speaker 1: completely tailor made to the bassline and the drums, and 289 00:15:00,676 --> 00:15:03,636 Speaker 1: I'm not having a single extra syllable or a consonant 290 00:15:03,676 --> 00:15:06,596 Speaker 1: in the wrong place or wrong vowel sound relative to 291 00:15:06,636 --> 00:15:10,436 Speaker 1: the music. And I realized, like the music is first, 292 00:15:10,476 --> 00:15:12,676 Speaker 1: and the kind of like the melody and the cadence 293 00:15:13,516 --> 00:15:16,276 Speaker 1: has to be married to the to the music. I 294 00:15:16,276 --> 00:15:17,836 Speaker 1: think when you hear like you know, Bob Dylan or 295 00:15:17,876 --> 00:15:19,876 Speaker 1: Leonard Cones, sometimes I'll have like a real mouthful of 296 00:15:19,876 --> 00:15:22,236 Speaker 1: a line and it's such great poetry that it doesn't matter. 297 00:15:22,276 --> 00:15:24,516 Speaker 1: But like I was more interested in, like I don't 298 00:15:24,516 --> 00:15:29,316 Speaker 1: want to shoehorn in great lyrics into the song if 299 00:15:29,356 --> 00:15:31,516 Speaker 1: the song has a different kind of cadence, So I 300 00:15:31,636 --> 00:15:35,836 Speaker 1: just started writing for the music. So the getting into 301 00:15:35,876 --> 00:15:37,996 Speaker 1: the place to write lyrics has to do with like 302 00:15:38,076 --> 00:15:41,516 Speaker 1: getting into the zone with the music, and that for 303 00:15:41,636 --> 00:15:42,916 Speaker 1: me is just a matter of like I could just 304 00:15:42,916 --> 00:15:45,436 Speaker 1: take a walk with headphones and then I'll start hearing 305 00:15:45,556 --> 00:15:48,076 Speaker 1: vocal ideas and I don't need weed to do that. 306 00:15:48,156 --> 00:15:50,556 Speaker 1: I just like to smoke weed and do that. 307 00:15:51,636 --> 00:15:53,916 Speaker 3: Does that feel like a gift that you can come 308 00:15:53,996 --> 00:15:57,276 Speaker 3: up with vocals and melodic ideas? 309 00:15:58,156 --> 00:16:00,516 Speaker 1: It doesn't feel that way, but I do acknowledge that 310 00:16:00,636 --> 00:16:04,276 Speaker 1: it's not something that I think everybody does and can do. 311 00:16:04,636 --> 00:16:08,276 Speaker 1: And I can't do that, right, Yeah, no, I will 312 00:16:08,276 --> 00:16:10,356 Speaker 1: hear I mean, And that's part what makes my partnership 313 00:16:10,476 --> 00:16:15,156 Speaker 1: with Daniel special. Is also that many times when I 314 00:16:15,196 --> 00:16:18,516 Speaker 1: try and write vocals for other people's music, I will 315 00:16:18,716 --> 00:16:20,436 Speaker 1: just hit my head against the wall and I can't 316 00:16:20,476 --> 00:16:24,316 Speaker 1: get anything. And I can get like the garbagest garbage, 317 00:16:24,716 --> 00:16:28,356 Speaker 1: like the worst fucking lyrics and the worst melodies, and 318 00:16:28,556 --> 00:16:30,436 Speaker 1: even the other person I can sense that they're kind 319 00:16:30,436 --> 00:16:32,556 Speaker 1: of like, shit, that's not that thing that I was 320 00:16:32,596 --> 00:16:36,196 Speaker 1: looking for from you, right, And so I think that 321 00:16:36,236 --> 00:16:38,116 Speaker 1: you know, Daniel and I have a special chemistry where 322 00:16:38,116 --> 00:16:42,556 Speaker 1: like his music in particular, I heard loads of things immediately. 323 00:16:42,596 --> 00:16:45,836 Speaker 1: I hear like, oh I kind of do that, and yeah, 324 00:16:45,876 --> 00:16:48,476 Speaker 1: even more so sometimes than with my own writing. You know, 325 00:16:48,516 --> 00:16:51,716 Speaker 1: it's easier to write vocals to Daniel's chord progressions often 326 00:16:51,716 --> 00:16:55,236 Speaker 1: than it is to write vocals to my own chord progressions. Yeah. 327 00:16:55,276 --> 00:16:57,996 Speaker 1: So I think it's it's a gift, but it's a 328 00:16:57,996 --> 00:16:58,636 Speaker 1: fickle gift. 329 00:16:59,956 --> 00:17:01,836 Speaker 3: But how cool that you found each other. I mean 330 00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:05,316 Speaker 3: I think about a lot that so many incredible groups 331 00:17:05,316 --> 00:17:09,676 Speaker 3: that exist just happened to like go to high school together, 332 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:13,036 Speaker 3: you know, like you think about like outcast like big 333 00:17:13,076 --> 00:17:15,276 Speaker 3: Boy and Andre just happen to be in the same 334 00:17:15,356 --> 00:17:17,956 Speaker 3: high school at the exact same time and they're like 335 00:17:18,196 --> 00:17:19,396 Speaker 3: perfect together. 336 00:17:19,556 --> 00:17:19,876 Speaker 1: Yeah. 337 00:17:19,956 --> 00:17:23,556 Speaker 3: Yeah, And what you're saying about Daniel, it's like that's 338 00:17:23,636 --> 00:17:25,556 Speaker 3: just so amazing, Like how do you explain that? 339 00:17:25,956 --> 00:17:27,596 Speaker 1: No, I know, I know what you mean. I think 340 00:17:27,596 --> 00:17:29,916 Speaker 1: it's really I guess I was probably thinking about like 341 00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:32,636 Speaker 1: idols the other day too, about kind of like how 342 00:17:32,636 --> 00:17:34,796 Speaker 1: do you get like such like great vocalist and like 343 00:17:34,836 --> 00:17:36,796 Speaker 1: this great guitar player, and like where did they meet? 344 00:17:36,836 --> 00:17:39,116 Speaker 1: And like was that guitar player just like being awesome 345 00:17:39,156 --> 00:17:41,276 Speaker 1: somewhere until some band came up to him and was like, 346 00:17:41,316 --> 00:17:45,316 Speaker 1: do you want to be in this band? And uh, yeah, 347 00:17:45,356 --> 00:17:47,236 Speaker 1: So basically to answer, I kind of and I think 348 00:17:47,276 --> 00:17:49,076 Speaker 1: that the answer is sort of yes. I think that 349 00:17:49,156 --> 00:17:51,796 Speaker 1: like when you're someone who's like a born artist, you 350 00:17:51,836 --> 00:17:55,596 Speaker 1: are born to be a musician, You cultivate your own 351 00:17:55,716 --> 00:17:59,076 Speaker 1: thing to such a high degree that you're not really 352 00:17:59,076 --> 00:18:01,836 Speaker 1: interested in anybody that's not kind of at your level, 353 00:18:02,436 --> 00:18:04,716 Speaker 1: and then I think that just automatically weeds out, like 354 00:18:04,756 --> 00:18:07,236 Speaker 1: tons of people, and then you when you do find 355 00:18:07,276 --> 00:18:10,436 Speaker 1: someone that is sort of either has slaved for their 356 00:18:10,476 --> 00:18:13,716 Speaker 1: craft as much as you have or just has a 357 00:18:13,756 --> 00:18:16,956 Speaker 1: similar sensibility and has given as much to their craft, 358 00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:19,996 Speaker 1: then it's like kind of makes it easy. It's like, Okay, well, 359 00:18:20,036 --> 00:18:22,716 Speaker 1: I feel like safe and like my time is worth 360 00:18:22,756 --> 00:18:26,196 Speaker 1: it to spend it with you because I see in 361 00:18:26,236 --> 00:18:29,436 Speaker 1: you what I see in me, and I haven't seen 362 00:18:29,476 --> 00:18:31,476 Speaker 1: that in anybody else, and that's why I don't like 363 00:18:31,516 --> 00:18:33,156 Speaker 1: bother jamming with anybody else. 364 00:18:33,596 --> 00:18:36,396 Speaker 3: That's a really cool way to think about it. Yeah, 365 00:18:36,436 --> 00:18:39,476 Speaker 3: but oftentimes does partnerships come when people are so young? 366 00:18:40,676 --> 00:18:44,036 Speaker 1: I mean, also, I was not looking to meet somebody. 367 00:18:44,036 --> 00:18:45,756 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a solo artist. I had no 368 00:18:45,836 --> 00:18:48,276 Speaker 1: interest in being in a band, and I think Daniel 369 00:18:48,436 --> 00:18:50,876 Speaker 1: just saw me. We did a study a broad thing 370 00:18:51,116 --> 00:18:53,036 Speaker 1: in Paris, and I had my guitar with me and 371 00:18:53,356 --> 00:18:58,316 Speaker 1: was trying to busk, and I think he just asked me, 372 00:18:58,316 --> 00:18:59,796 Speaker 1: you want to come and see my band Rehearse like 373 00:18:59,836 --> 00:19:01,636 Speaker 1: a couple. After we'd known each other for like a 374 00:19:01,716 --> 00:19:03,516 Speaker 1: year and a half, and I went and saw him 375 00:19:03,556 --> 00:19:06,076 Speaker 1: and he had Carlos in the band, and it was 376 00:19:06,116 --> 00:19:09,356 Speaker 1: just like, Okay, this music is so excellent that now 377 00:19:09,396 --> 00:19:12,436 Speaker 1: I'm interested in working with other people. But I, you know, 378 00:19:12,676 --> 00:19:15,036 Speaker 1: other people had been around, I had jammed with other people, 379 00:19:15,036 --> 00:19:16,876 Speaker 1: and I just didn't want to be in a band 380 00:19:17,276 --> 00:19:18,596 Speaker 1: until I saw the right band. 381 00:19:19,556 --> 00:19:21,716 Speaker 3: What was it about their sound that you were attracted to? 382 00:19:21,796 --> 00:19:24,036 Speaker 3: Do you remember? Was it an energy thing or was 383 00:19:24,036 --> 00:19:24,676 Speaker 3: it the sound? 384 00:19:25,996 --> 00:19:28,276 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's all of those things. And also 385 00:19:28,436 --> 00:19:31,876 Speaker 1: just being like light years ahead of everything else I'd 386 00:19:31,916 --> 00:19:34,516 Speaker 1: ever heard anybody doing, you know. I mean you meet 387 00:19:34,556 --> 00:19:37,396 Speaker 1: a lot of people that are technically proficient, you know, 388 00:19:37,476 --> 00:19:39,916 Speaker 1: within anytime, like within a five mile radius, there's like 389 00:19:39,956 --> 00:19:42,036 Speaker 1: a thousand guitar players that are better than me at 390 00:19:42,156 --> 00:19:45,796 Speaker 1: you know, technically better guitar players, but to be able 391 00:19:45,836 --> 00:19:49,156 Speaker 1: to write music that's compelling like they, you know, Daniel 392 00:19:49,196 --> 00:19:51,756 Speaker 1: and Carlos were playing PDA when I came to the 393 00:19:51,756 --> 00:19:56,396 Speaker 1: first rehearsal, and it's like it was amazing music. And 394 00:19:56,796 --> 00:19:58,916 Speaker 1: Carlos was someone who had ad he was in my dorm. 395 00:19:58,956 --> 00:20:00,996 Speaker 1: He lived in my dorm, and I already like had 396 00:20:01,076 --> 00:20:03,076 Speaker 1: seen him and was like, I love this guy. This 397 00:20:03,156 --> 00:20:04,836 Speaker 1: guy's fucking crazy. 398 00:20:05,076 --> 00:20:06,956 Speaker 3: What was he like back then? 399 00:20:07,356 --> 00:20:10,556 Speaker 1: Well, he was in my dorm. I was like, however 400 00:20:10,556 --> 00:20:12,636 Speaker 1: old you are freshman year of college. I was like seventeen, 401 00:20:12,716 --> 00:20:15,596 Speaker 1: he was probably like nineteen or twenty. And he was 402 00:20:15,636 --> 00:20:20,396 Speaker 1: wearing a monk's cassock priests cassick, like the full length 403 00:20:20,476 --> 00:20:23,436 Speaker 1: black like cloak. Wow. They had like jet black hair 404 00:20:23,476 --> 00:20:26,396 Speaker 1: and like a big crucifix and the yeah, like a 405 00:20:26,436 --> 00:20:29,236 Speaker 1: skirt and like a jet black T shirt like skin tight, 406 00:20:29,276 --> 00:20:31,916 Speaker 1: and he just kind of like glided like no Sperratu 407 00:20:31,996 --> 00:20:34,196 Speaker 1: through like the courtyard. And this is like a college dorm, 408 00:20:34,236 --> 00:20:36,636 Speaker 1: which is like a bunch of dumbasses, and like this 409 00:20:36,716 --> 00:20:40,636 Speaker 1: fucking no Serazu looking motherfucker, like dead serious in the 410 00:20:40,676 --> 00:20:42,916 Speaker 1: elevator and like walking across the courtyard and I was 411 00:20:42,916 --> 00:20:45,636 Speaker 1: just like, man, he you know, that's the real deal. 412 00:20:45,716 --> 00:20:48,796 Speaker 1: That's that guy's out of his mind. And I love 413 00:20:49,316 --> 00:20:53,036 Speaker 1: strange characters, and so I love how he was so 414 00:20:53,116 --> 00:20:55,956 Speaker 1: authentically himself. So I hadn't spoken to him. He didn't 415 00:20:55,956 --> 00:20:58,036 Speaker 1: seem at all approachable, but I did have like I 416 00:20:58,036 --> 00:20:59,676 Speaker 1: was like, oh, that guy's that guy's cool. 417 00:20:59,756 --> 00:21:01,236 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, how do you approach a 418 00:21:01,276 --> 00:21:03,676 Speaker 3: guy like that? Like what's your opening line? 419 00:21:04,156 --> 00:21:05,756 Speaker 1: I didn't. I just saw him in this. Then I 420 00:21:05,796 --> 00:21:07,756 Speaker 1: walked into this rehearsal, I was like, oh, there's that guy. 421 00:21:07,876 --> 00:21:10,036 Speaker 1: So that was a good, cool, good start. 422 00:21:10,556 --> 00:21:12,796 Speaker 3: Do you remember like how you actually started talking to 423 00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:15,516 Speaker 3: him and like how your impression of him changed once 424 00:21:15,556 --> 00:21:18,116 Speaker 3: you guys were actually able to just kind of like 425 00:21:18,116 --> 00:21:18,716 Speaker 3: shoot the shit. 426 00:21:20,076 --> 00:21:22,956 Speaker 1: I mean it was Carlos was always difficult, but yeah. 427 00:21:23,076 --> 00:21:24,716 Speaker 1: And then also it's kind of like an interesting thing 428 00:21:24,756 --> 00:21:26,596 Speaker 1: is we didn't be We weren't friends, you know, so 429 00:21:26,796 --> 00:21:30,076 Speaker 1: we became friends from writing music together. So it's more 430 00:21:30,116 --> 00:21:34,996 Speaker 1: about like there's the respect that like you're worth my time, 431 00:21:35,076 --> 00:21:36,876 Speaker 1: Like it's okay with me that you're in this room 432 00:21:36,876 --> 00:21:42,156 Speaker 1: writing songs with us. But I think Carlos had like 433 00:21:42,156 --> 00:21:45,236 Speaker 1: there's ego battles that went on. Yeah, and I think 434 00:21:45,276 --> 00:21:48,956 Speaker 1: I was more, I guess, a little bit more loose, 435 00:21:50,156 --> 00:21:52,116 Speaker 1: and I think he was a little bit maybe more 436 00:21:52,116 --> 00:21:55,756 Speaker 1: guarded towards me. I think I was like a threat 437 00:21:55,836 --> 00:21:57,436 Speaker 1: of something that he had. I think he had something 438 00:21:57,436 --> 00:21:59,276 Speaker 1: going on with Daniel, and I think I actually was. 439 00:21:59,836 --> 00:22:01,636 Speaker 1: I later came to realize like in some way like 440 00:22:01,796 --> 00:22:04,916 Speaker 1: a threat to a like a creative bond that I 441 00:22:04,916 --> 00:22:06,556 Speaker 1: think he felt he had with Daniel. And then I 442 00:22:06,636 --> 00:22:09,956 Speaker 1: was just some pot smoking, you know, kind of a 443 00:22:09,956 --> 00:22:13,716 Speaker 1: little bit looser personality in the mix. So anyway, it 444 00:22:14,076 --> 00:22:16,956 Speaker 1: was the glue that sealed us together was respect. That 445 00:22:17,156 --> 00:22:18,156 Speaker 1: was you know, at the end of the day, I 446 00:22:18,196 --> 00:22:20,676 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, you guys are fucking amazing musicians, so 447 00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:23,956 Speaker 1: I'm down to put up with whatever weird ego stuff 448 00:22:23,996 --> 00:22:25,836 Speaker 1: is going on. And it was like bumpy in the beginning. 449 00:22:25,836 --> 00:22:27,796 Speaker 1: I like quit in the beginning, and then I rejoined 450 00:22:27,796 --> 00:22:30,676 Speaker 1: on the on the condition that I'd be the vocalist. 451 00:22:30,716 --> 00:22:33,636 Speaker 1: I think was my condition to rejoin, because I wasn't 452 00:22:33,636 --> 00:22:34,916 Speaker 1: even the singer in the very beginning. 453 00:22:36,116 --> 00:22:37,676 Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break. But then We'll 454 00:22:37,676 --> 00:22:41,196 Speaker 2: be back with more from Leo Rose and Paul Banks. 455 00:22:44,436 --> 00:22:46,956 Speaker 2: We're back with more from Paul Banks and Lea Rose. 456 00:22:48,076 --> 00:22:50,436 Speaker 3: Was it hard for you to muster up the confidence 457 00:22:50,516 --> 00:22:51,876 Speaker 3: to be a front person? 458 00:22:52,076 --> 00:22:52,156 Speaker 1: Like? 459 00:22:52,236 --> 00:22:54,676 Speaker 3: Where does that come from? And how has that evolved 460 00:22:54,676 --> 00:22:55,276 Speaker 3: over time? 461 00:22:55,876 --> 00:22:58,116 Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting, I think, you know, I've never 462 00:22:58,116 --> 00:23:03,636 Speaker 1: really seen myself much as a front person. I think 463 00:23:03,836 --> 00:23:07,156 Speaker 1: possibly because the bando like it felt like a gang 464 00:23:07,196 --> 00:23:09,556 Speaker 1: to me, and it didn't really need a gangle. It 465 00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:11,716 Speaker 1: seemed to me sort of more like and I like 466 00:23:11,796 --> 00:23:14,196 Speaker 1: the idea of a gang, where like in any given situation, 467 00:23:14,316 --> 00:23:16,916 Speaker 1: like one guy can handle it, or one person can 468 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:19,956 Speaker 1: handle this situation, then other person handles this situation and 469 00:23:19,996 --> 00:23:22,396 Speaker 1: as a collective you're very strong and it doesn't really 470 00:23:22,836 --> 00:23:27,956 Speaker 1: hinge on having like some leader, but I think all 471 00:23:28,036 --> 00:23:31,876 Speaker 1: dynamics do. And I think as a band, like Daniel 472 00:23:31,996 --> 00:23:37,076 Speaker 1: was sort of the ideological or the strategic leader of 473 00:23:37,076 --> 00:23:41,076 Speaker 1: what we do as a band. Yeah, and Carlos was 474 00:23:41,276 --> 00:23:45,516 Speaker 1: very wasn't really looking to include my songwriting into what 475 00:23:45,556 --> 00:23:48,836 Speaker 1: we were doing, so I never really felt like this 476 00:23:49,116 --> 00:23:51,836 Speaker 1: is my band. I felt like I'm a collaborator in 477 00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:55,876 Speaker 1: this collective and my role is that I'm the singer, 478 00:23:56,956 --> 00:23:59,476 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't really it's not really my personality to 479 00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:02,396 Speaker 1: then kind of cop like that. It's something else like 480 00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:05,036 Speaker 1: I'm bringing these guys along with me. It's kind of like, nah, 481 00:24:05,036 --> 00:24:06,996 Speaker 1: we sort of do this stuff all together, and so 482 00:24:07,156 --> 00:24:09,196 Speaker 1: I'm just the one in the center of the stage. 483 00:24:09,396 --> 00:24:11,516 Speaker 1: So I never really like had I didn't really try 484 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:13,556 Speaker 1: and pretend to be anything that it wasn't, and I 485 00:24:13,556 --> 00:24:16,636 Speaker 1: think that also suited. That's how kind of involved with 486 00:24:16,716 --> 00:24:18,316 Speaker 1: how we got the name, Like Interpol was like this 487 00:24:18,396 --> 00:24:20,956 Speaker 1: idea of it being a collective where it's like it's 488 00:24:21,036 --> 00:24:22,996 Speaker 1: just dudes in black suits and like you don't really 489 00:24:23,076 --> 00:24:26,076 Speaker 1: know who the boss is. You know, it's like everyone's 490 00:24:26,196 --> 00:24:30,916 Speaker 1: very capable, but it's about the group power rather than individual. 491 00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:33,036 Speaker 3: Right, So you're not like the Mick Jagger in the front, 492 00:24:33,156 --> 00:24:33,996 Speaker 3: like having to be. 493 00:24:34,236 --> 00:24:37,596 Speaker 1: Like no, I mean even when I do solo stuff, 494 00:24:37,596 --> 00:24:40,156 Speaker 1: I'm not that kind of performer anyway. So that's what 495 00:24:40,196 --> 00:24:42,636 Speaker 1: I mean. I'm like, even in or out of Interpol, 496 00:24:42,676 --> 00:24:45,076 Speaker 1: I'm just sort of not I just like an artist. 497 00:24:45,116 --> 00:24:47,516 Speaker 1: I don't really view it as like that kind of 498 00:24:47,516 --> 00:24:51,956 Speaker 1: performer streak, but I love crazy performers. You know, I 499 00:24:51,996 --> 00:24:54,796 Speaker 1: love Carlos, and I love Mick Jagger, and I love 500 00:24:54,996 --> 00:24:59,796 Speaker 1: you know, Perry Farrell. Yeah, Kurt Cobain was someone who 501 00:24:59,836 --> 00:25:01,876 Speaker 1: sort of didn't seem to be that fussed with trying 502 00:25:01,876 --> 00:25:03,916 Speaker 1: to be like a performer in that regard. And I 503 00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:06,796 Speaker 1: say this from experience because I saw them live. He 504 00:25:06,916 --> 00:25:08,676 Speaker 1: seemed kind of like, I, you know, he's doing his thing. 505 00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:12,876 Speaker 1: It's not about like entertaining you with what his body's doing. 506 00:25:12,916 --> 00:25:15,636 Speaker 1: It's more like that his music is coming out of him. 507 00:25:15,916 --> 00:25:17,276 Speaker 1: And I think I'm sort of that way. 508 00:25:17,916 --> 00:25:19,956 Speaker 3: How old were you when you saw them? 509 00:25:20,596 --> 00:25:23,876 Speaker 1: Probably fourteen or fifteen. I saw them in a bull 510 00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:28,236 Speaker 1: ring in Madrid, Spain. It was in utero front row, 511 00:25:28,556 --> 00:25:30,836 Speaker 1: front row, yep. Yeah, I was like, I was the 512 00:25:30,836 --> 00:25:33,556 Speaker 1: biggest Nirvana fan. I was, yeah, the biggest. 513 00:25:34,076 --> 00:25:35,316 Speaker 3: What do you remember from the show? 514 00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:40,356 Speaker 1: I was interested in the way that Kurt, like, like 515 00:25:40,436 --> 00:25:42,316 Speaker 1: how he kind of moved and held his guitar. He 516 00:25:42,356 --> 00:25:44,236 Speaker 1: had this kind of like swimmy sort of thing, like 517 00:25:44,236 --> 00:25:46,476 Speaker 1: he'd stay like in one spot but sort of like 518 00:25:47,356 --> 00:25:49,436 Speaker 1: it's I had this kind of swimmy thing that he 519 00:25:49,516 --> 00:25:54,676 Speaker 1: was doing. And I remember, for some reason watching pat'smer 520 00:25:54,716 --> 00:25:58,076 Speaker 1: a lot it's again kind of like the live stuff 521 00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:00,796 Speaker 1: has never really been. It wasn't so much about like there, 522 00:26:00,796 --> 00:26:03,836 Speaker 1: It was a records that meant everything to me. And 523 00:26:03,876 --> 00:26:05,956 Speaker 1: I mentioned seeing them live for the kind of like 524 00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:09,636 Speaker 1: historic trivia of that, but not Yeah, it wasn't that. 525 00:26:09,676 --> 00:26:11,316 Speaker 1: And then I saw them live and everything changed, like 526 00:26:11,356 --> 00:26:13,956 Speaker 1: everything had already changed, and then I saw them live. 527 00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:16,276 Speaker 3: You know, have you gotten to meet Chris nova Selk 528 00:26:16,356 --> 00:26:17,036 Speaker 3: or Dave Grohl? 529 00:26:17,116 --> 00:26:21,556 Speaker 1: And met Dave Grol once. I'm pretty awkward, so you know, 530 00:26:21,556 --> 00:26:24,876 Speaker 1: I didn't really capitalize on that situation. But he just 531 00:26:24,956 --> 00:26:27,676 Speaker 1: mentioned that he loved the snare sound on our first record. 532 00:26:28,996 --> 00:26:29,676 Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. 533 00:26:29,996 --> 00:26:33,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, but he seems like a really cool dude, and yes, 534 00:26:33,636 --> 00:26:34,436 Speaker 1: so much respect. 535 00:26:35,076 --> 00:26:38,116 Speaker 3: All right, let's run through some of the tracks on Antics. 536 00:26:38,236 --> 00:26:41,276 Speaker 3: Let's see so okay, so if there's any memories you 537 00:26:41,396 --> 00:26:45,996 Speaker 3: have of like writing these songs, performing the songs, Okay, 538 00:26:46,316 --> 00:26:49,556 Speaker 3: how about next exit, Let's just start at the top. 539 00:26:50,516 --> 00:26:52,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was fun. I think fondly of 540 00:26:53,036 --> 00:26:55,516 Speaker 1: that one. I think we were aware after the first 541 00:26:55,556 --> 00:26:59,236 Speaker 1: record that you know, we were being when we started. 542 00:26:59,316 --> 00:27:02,956 Speaker 1: We didn't talk about post punk, we didn't talk about 543 00:27:02,996 --> 00:27:06,476 Speaker 1: the bands that represent post punk or if they were 544 00:27:06,516 --> 00:27:09,076 Speaker 1: talked about around me. I didn't know that there was 545 00:27:09,356 --> 00:27:12,636 Speaker 1: genre by that name and that these bands were the 546 00:27:12,676 --> 00:27:15,956 Speaker 1: ones that you know, represented it. I think Carlos and 547 00:27:15,996 --> 00:27:18,876 Speaker 1: Sam definitely did know all that shit, but it was 548 00:27:18,916 --> 00:27:21,676 Speaker 1: sort of like I was like into Nirvana and the Pixies, 549 00:27:22,476 --> 00:27:24,556 Speaker 1: and it was a little bit kind of like off 550 00:27:24,596 --> 00:27:26,476 Speaker 1: putting to me when the first record came out and 551 00:27:26,516 --> 00:27:28,756 Speaker 1: I realized that we were just being contextualized as like, 552 00:27:28,796 --> 00:27:32,316 Speaker 1: what this band is doing is derivative of and a 553 00:27:32,356 --> 00:27:35,836 Speaker 1: callback to this very specific thing that already happened. Because 554 00:27:35,876 --> 00:27:38,476 Speaker 1: in my mind it was like, actually, I thought I 555 00:27:38,516 --> 00:27:41,356 Speaker 1: found like three geniuses and we're doing like dope shit together, 556 00:27:42,076 --> 00:27:44,596 Speaker 1: and that's what I thought was happening. I didn't realize 557 00:27:44,636 --> 00:27:46,876 Speaker 1: that we're actually this thing that you're telling us that 558 00:27:46,996 --> 00:27:51,716 Speaker 1: we are. Now I understand it's all completely founded. All 559 00:27:51,716 --> 00:27:55,116 Speaker 1: of those assessments and comments make perfect sense to me now, 560 00:27:55,236 --> 00:27:59,196 Speaker 1: but I was, you know, young and naive anyway. I 561 00:27:59,196 --> 00:28:00,836 Speaker 1: don't know who it was that sort of came up 562 00:28:00,876 --> 00:28:02,996 Speaker 1: with the concept for Next Exit, if it was a 563 00:28:03,076 --> 00:28:06,716 Speaker 1: Daniel thing or if Carlos went to the Oregon straight away, 564 00:28:07,516 --> 00:28:09,796 Speaker 1: but I loved how it sort of represent into something 565 00:28:09,916 --> 00:28:13,236 Speaker 1: very unlike what we were seemingly known for. So it's 566 00:28:13,236 --> 00:28:17,716 Speaker 1: like a little bit of just like dusty Americana. Even 567 00:28:17,756 --> 00:28:19,876 Speaker 1: just that the fact that I felt like Americana, I 568 00:28:19,956 --> 00:28:21,676 Speaker 1: kind of felt like, I really like that we're doing 569 00:28:21,676 --> 00:28:23,276 Speaker 1: this song, and I really liked that this song is 570 00:28:23,276 --> 00:28:25,716 Speaker 1: the first one that we're you know, kind of constructing 571 00:28:25,836 --> 00:28:29,156 Speaker 1: like an intro to a record, because it's not what's expected. 572 00:28:29,196 --> 00:28:32,996 Speaker 1: It's not cold, it's not you know Dad, it's you know, 573 00:28:33,076 --> 00:28:36,036 Speaker 1: like got a completely different vibe and I and I 574 00:28:36,116 --> 00:28:39,316 Speaker 1: really liked the dashing of expectations in a way that 575 00:28:39,396 --> 00:28:40,756 Speaker 1: was very honest and earn it. 576 00:28:40,796 --> 00:28:40,876 Speaker 3: You know. 577 00:28:40,956 --> 00:28:44,436 Speaker 1: It's like we're also huge Roy Orbison fans, like everybody 578 00:28:44,476 --> 00:28:47,676 Speaker 1: in the band for instance, so it's like genuine to us. 579 00:28:47,756 --> 00:28:49,356 Speaker 1: But it felt like, but this is going to be 580 00:28:49,396 --> 00:28:51,596 Speaker 1: a little bit of a you know, a left turn 581 00:28:51,716 --> 00:28:54,156 Speaker 1: for some people who are expecting something else from us. 582 00:28:54,596 --> 00:28:56,116 Speaker 1: So I liked that we did that song. 583 00:28:56,516 --> 00:28:59,436 Speaker 3: How does sequencing work in the band? Who comes up 584 00:28:59,436 --> 00:29:02,916 Speaker 3: with the final sequence and what is that process? 585 00:29:03,076 --> 00:29:08,556 Speaker 1: Like? It depends like I sequenced Marauder, Daniel sequenced the 586 00:29:08,596 --> 00:29:13,836 Speaker 1: most recent record I think Antics was probably Daniel, but 587 00:29:13,916 --> 00:29:16,676 Speaker 1: I think we did kind of debate it and you know, 588 00:29:16,676 --> 00:29:20,676 Speaker 1: maybe did some reorganizing. It was likely a group effort, 589 00:29:20,836 --> 00:29:22,796 Speaker 1: I think on that one, or maybe we all took 590 00:29:22,836 --> 00:29:26,036 Speaker 1: home CDs and like tried to sequence it. I don't remember. 591 00:29:26,756 --> 00:29:29,316 Speaker 3: Seems so hard because there's so many songs. There could 592 00:29:29,356 --> 00:29:33,076 Speaker 3: be an infinite number of sequences to sort of like 593 00:29:33,196 --> 00:29:34,116 Speaker 3: settle that debate. 594 00:29:34,196 --> 00:29:36,836 Speaker 1: It seems tough, but you know, the music in such 595 00:29:36,836 --> 00:29:39,196 Speaker 1: a different intimate way when you've made it so that 596 00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:42,596 Speaker 1: it's like everything is so familiar to you, and I think. 597 00:29:42,436 --> 00:29:44,436 Speaker 3: That you it sort of makes sense. 598 00:29:44,716 --> 00:29:46,436 Speaker 1: It sort of makes sense. Yeah, it's not that hard. 599 00:29:47,196 --> 00:29:49,876 Speaker 3: Were there other songs that were recorded that were left 600 00:29:49,916 --> 00:29:51,916 Speaker 3: off the final version of Antics? 601 00:29:52,636 --> 00:29:55,436 Speaker 1: Good question? Yeah, I think yeah, oh yeah. We tried 602 00:29:55,436 --> 00:29:58,396 Speaker 1: to finish this song called that came out later called 603 00:29:58,636 --> 00:30:01,636 Speaker 1: we called it Gavalon when it came out, but it 604 00:30:01,676 --> 00:30:04,396 Speaker 1: was called Cubed at the time, and that was like 605 00:30:04,436 --> 00:30:06,196 Speaker 1: one of our best things that we ever wrote. And 606 00:30:06,236 --> 00:30:08,596 Speaker 1: I just couldn't get the fucking lyrics together on that one, 607 00:30:09,196 --> 00:30:10,916 Speaker 1: and I think that's why it didn't happen. And I 608 00:30:10,916 --> 00:30:14,036 Speaker 1: think song seven also was a a case I just 609 00:30:14,036 --> 00:30:16,436 Speaker 1: didn't like that song. That's why that didn't come out, 610 00:30:16,476 --> 00:30:18,196 Speaker 1: but its sins come out and I think I think 611 00:30:18,236 --> 00:30:23,556 Speaker 1: the fans really like it, but it wasn't my fave. Yeah. 612 00:30:23,596 --> 00:30:25,756 Speaker 1: I can't remember other B sides from that record though, 613 00:30:26,276 --> 00:30:26,596 Speaker 1: all right? 614 00:30:26,636 --> 00:30:27,356 Speaker 3: What about Evil? 615 00:30:28,356 --> 00:30:30,836 Speaker 1: Evil was one that I spent like a lot of 616 00:30:30,836 --> 00:30:33,516 Speaker 1: time on the lyrics and I really enjoyed writing that, 617 00:30:33,636 --> 00:30:37,076 Speaker 1: and I felt like that was like a yeah. Actually 618 00:30:37,316 --> 00:30:38,716 Speaker 1: for me, it's kind of one of those songs that 619 00:30:38,916 --> 00:30:41,436 Speaker 1: was a single for us that I really like. And 620 00:30:41,476 --> 00:30:43,636 Speaker 1: I think sometimes the singles are the ones that I'd like, 621 00:30:43,756 --> 00:30:47,716 Speaker 1: you know, not as much as some other songs, but Evil, Yeah, 622 00:30:47,716 --> 00:30:50,996 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed writing the lyrics to that, and it's 623 00:30:50,996 --> 00:30:52,116 Speaker 1: a good song. I like that one. 624 00:30:53,676 --> 00:30:55,756 Speaker 3: How do you usually listen to mixes? Do you take 625 00:30:55,796 --> 00:30:59,436 Speaker 3: stuff home with you? Were you burning CDs and listening 626 00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:02,916 Speaker 3: to them in like your car or in like a 627 00:31:02,956 --> 00:31:06,276 Speaker 3: discmand What was the process for you for really hearing 628 00:31:06,556 --> 00:31:07,636 Speaker 3: what had been tracked? 629 00:31:08,076 --> 00:31:11,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love listening on car stereos, but I think 630 00:31:11,236 --> 00:31:12,956 Speaker 1: at the time it would have been like a CD player, 631 00:31:12,956 --> 00:31:15,396 Speaker 1: a portable CD player, and for me that would be 632 00:31:15,396 --> 00:31:18,756 Speaker 1: because like that's how I listened to my at that time, 633 00:31:18,836 --> 00:31:20,516 Speaker 1: we were doing antics. That's how I listen to my 634 00:31:20,556 --> 00:31:24,236 Speaker 1: transam and my stereo lab and my John Fruciantes, you know, 635 00:31:24,316 --> 00:31:27,996 Speaker 1: on my CD player. So yeah, popping it into the 636 00:31:27,996 --> 00:31:31,276 Speaker 1: same format that I listened to music I'm enjoying at 637 00:31:31,276 --> 00:31:33,356 Speaker 1: the time, That's how I would you know, reference it 638 00:31:33,396 --> 00:31:35,356 Speaker 1: and see how it kind of if I get a 639 00:31:35,436 --> 00:31:37,636 Speaker 1: vistual kick that way. And then there's you know, this 640 00:31:37,756 --> 00:31:40,196 Speaker 1: funny thing with music. It's like there's the honeymoon phase 641 00:31:40,276 --> 00:31:42,676 Speaker 1: right around when you're mixing and mastering, where like I 642 00:31:42,716 --> 00:31:45,276 Speaker 1: love it and I my heart is totally open to 643 00:31:45,316 --> 00:31:48,596 Speaker 1: it and it's like great, and then that ends and 644 00:31:48,636 --> 00:31:51,156 Speaker 1: then I like kind of can't listen to it anymore 645 00:31:51,156 --> 00:31:54,396 Speaker 1: because I'll only hear shortcomings and things that bother me 646 00:31:54,436 --> 00:31:57,676 Speaker 1: about it. Once it's out, yeah, once it's out, yeah, 647 00:31:57,796 --> 00:31:59,756 Speaker 1: or even once it's a soon to be out. 648 00:31:59,836 --> 00:32:01,716 Speaker 3: Do you think it's because at that point you're letting 649 00:32:01,796 --> 00:32:04,196 Speaker 3: go and you don't you're not able to tinker anymore. 650 00:32:04,756 --> 00:32:07,556 Speaker 1: Possibly are also just like now everybody else is like, 651 00:32:07,636 --> 00:32:12,636 Speaker 1: you know, are going to get all over it, and 652 00:32:12,996 --> 00:32:15,076 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to deal with like people's you know, 653 00:32:15,196 --> 00:32:17,676 Speaker 1: the you know there's expectations and then there's like the 654 00:32:17,716 --> 00:32:20,916 Speaker 1: actual reaction, and I think it's once it's in the 655 00:32:20,956 --> 00:32:25,276 Speaker 1: field of like now people are gonna be satisfied or dissatisfied, 656 00:32:25,276 --> 00:32:27,556 Speaker 1: and it's this whole world of like now judgment is 657 00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:30,796 Speaker 1: being passed on this music, and I think the moments 658 00:32:30,836 --> 00:32:35,596 Speaker 1: before that enters my perspective is a great phase and 659 00:32:35,636 --> 00:32:38,196 Speaker 1: then it have to like just turn away from it. 660 00:32:38,276 --> 00:32:41,636 Speaker 3: Now, how do you deal with haters? Like if you're 661 00:32:41,676 --> 00:32:44,236 Speaker 3: in comments and you're reading what people are saying, like, 662 00:32:44,396 --> 00:32:45,956 Speaker 3: do you are you of the mind that you have 663 00:32:46,036 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 3: to just have a thick skin and sort of like 664 00:32:50,196 --> 00:32:52,596 Speaker 3: keep on or how do you how do you deal 665 00:32:52,636 --> 00:32:52,996 Speaker 3: with it? 666 00:32:54,356 --> 00:32:59,916 Speaker 1: I think I read like the first half of a 667 00:32:59,996 --> 00:33:03,516 Speaker 1: review of like our second or our third record, and 668 00:33:03,556 --> 00:33:06,916 Speaker 1: that was the last thing I ever read like critically 669 00:33:07,556 --> 00:33:10,316 Speaker 1: about the band, and then I didn't read or pay 670 00:33:10,356 --> 00:33:13,836 Speaker 1: attention to anything until like the last record, and then 671 00:33:15,116 --> 00:33:17,156 Speaker 1: I guess, like getting more familiar with sort of the 672 00:33:17,196 --> 00:33:20,036 Speaker 1: world of Instagram and stuff and like seeing things on YouTube, 673 00:33:20,076 --> 00:33:22,796 Speaker 1: I actually, like, do now read comments. I don't read 674 00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:26,796 Speaker 1: any critical anything, but I read like audience comments and 675 00:33:27,756 --> 00:33:29,596 Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's generally pretty nice, is 676 00:33:29,596 --> 00:33:32,156 Speaker 1: what's what I found. It's actually like so, I mean, 677 00:33:32,156 --> 00:33:33,716 Speaker 1: I'm sure of the cret If I read any kind 678 00:33:33,756 --> 00:33:36,716 Speaker 1: of like actual official review, i'd probably be super pissed 679 00:33:36,756 --> 00:33:39,676 Speaker 1: and bummed. But I just haven't done that since like, 680 00:33:40,316 --> 00:33:41,156 Speaker 1: oh six. 681 00:33:41,716 --> 00:33:43,796 Speaker 3: Do you read reviews of other bands that you like? 682 00:33:44,676 --> 00:33:49,276 Speaker 1: No, I don't give a shit. No, No, I mean 683 00:33:49,556 --> 00:33:53,316 Speaker 1: I and I like, I support the form of criticsism, 684 00:33:53,516 --> 00:33:56,316 Speaker 1: you know, I actually I think it's important and I like, yeah, 685 00:33:56,316 --> 00:33:59,636 Speaker 1: I like no disrespect, but no, it's not really for 686 00:33:59,796 --> 00:34:02,956 Speaker 1: me and I it's even like laughable to even think 687 00:34:02,996 --> 00:34:05,596 Speaker 1: about that. I generally kind of know what I like 688 00:34:05,636 --> 00:34:07,596 Speaker 1: when I hear it, and that's all I need to know. 689 00:34:07,916 --> 00:34:10,196 Speaker 3: You know, No, that's great. I imagine it could be 690 00:34:10,236 --> 00:34:12,996 Speaker 3: soul crushing to put so much into something and then 691 00:34:13,076 --> 00:34:15,276 Speaker 3: have somebody who's not even a musician just kind of 692 00:34:15,276 --> 00:34:16,036 Speaker 3: like shit on it. 693 00:34:16,876 --> 00:34:19,156 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they can be so yeah, it's like brutal. 694 00:34:19,756 --> 00:34:21,796 Speaker 3: And it can be so persuasive too, because they can 695 00:34:21,796 --> 00:34:24,236 Speaker 3: write a story or for you know, sort of like 696 00:34:24,276 --> 00:34:28,516 Speaker 3: subconsciously form an opinion in people's minds about the whole 697 00:34:28,556 --> 00:34:32,236 Speaker 3: like impetus of a project or the motivation and then 698 00:34:32,276 --> 00:34:35,116 Speaker 3: people just like think that that's reality. 699 00:34:36,196 --> 00:34:38,156 Speaker 1: Yeah, and also it's like it's really out of sync 700 00:34:38,196 --> 00:34:40,436 Speaker 1: with like like I just felt like my process is 701 00:34:40,476 --> 00:34:42,436 Speaker 1: more pure than that and like less contrived than that. 702 00:34:42,516 --> 00:34:43,996 Speaker 1: And the way they write it is though like, oh, 703 00:34:43,996 --> 00:34:46,876 Speaker 1: they were trying to do this and they failed, and 704 00:34:46,916 --> 00:34:48,556 Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know. I was just trying to 705 00:34:48,596 --> 00:34:50,876 Speaker 1: do cool shit that felt fun actually, and like I 706 00:34:50,916 --> 00:34:53,236 Speaker 1: don't really know if I could fail at that, but 707 00:34:53,396 --> 00:34:55,516 Speaker 1: you framing it like they were trying to do this 708 00:34:55,756 --> 00:34:59,636 Speaker 1: or that. But I mean it's also sometimes criticism is 709 00:34:59,676 --> 00:35:03,316 Speaker 1: great and insightful and blah blah blah, but I don't 710 00:35:03,356 --> 00:35:05,756 Speaker 1: need to hear about it from my own work totally. 711 00:35:06,396 --> 00:35:09,236 Speaker 3: How did you find John Frschante's work? I think think 712 00:35:09,276 --> 00:35:10,476 Speaker 3: it was his first solo that you. 713 00:35:10,476 --> 00:35:12,636 Speaker 1: Really liked, neanderalads. 714 00:35:13,076 --> 00:35:14,956 Speaker 3: What was your experience finding that album? 715 00:35:15,196 --> 00:35:18,636 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was in a dorm freshman year at NYU 716 00:35:18,916 --> 00:35:23,716 Speaker 1: and my roommate was this kid named Phil. Well, we 717 00:35:23,756 --> 00:35:29,156 Speaker 1: had seven of us in this dorm, but Phil he 718 00:35:29,276 --> 00:35:31,636 Speaker 1: was Chinese American but I can't I can't remember his 719 00:35:31,716 --> 00:35:36,796 Speaker 1: last name. And he introduced me to Centradeau and Sebado 720 00:35:38,076 --> 00:35:41,236 Speaker 1: and he introduced me to that John Frechiante record Neanderlades 721 00:35:41,276 --> 00:35:43,676 Speaker 1: and usually just a T shirt. Yeah, he had some 722 00:35:43,716 --> 00:35:46,476 Speaker 1: great music that he was into. But for me, you know, 723 00:35:46,516 --> 00:35:49,596 Speaker 1: like Blood Sugar Sex Magic Is was a huge record 724 00:35:49,596 --> 00:35:53,636 Speaker 1: for me, and the song I could Have Lied was 725 00:35:53,716 --> 00:35:55,956 Speaker 1: one of the most important tracks, you know, in the 726 00:35:55,996 --> 00:35:58,676 Speaker 1: early days of starting to play guitar, even before Nirvana, 727 00:35:58,876 --> 00:36:01,476 Speaker 1: was the thing that made me decide like that's what 728 00:36:01,476 --> 00:36:04,156 Speaker 1: I'm going to do with my life. But you know, 729 00:36:04,316 --> 00:36:07,436 Speaker 1: right before that with Blood Sugar, Sa Sex Magic, like 730 00:36:08,236 --> 00:36:11,316 Speaker 1: and it's particular like the guitar in Under the Bridge 731 00:36:11,356 --> 00:36:13,556 Speaker 1: and the guitar solos and I could Have Lied where 732 00:36:13,596 --> 00:36:17,396 Speaker 1: I felt like goosebumps and as like like my thirteen 733 00:36:17,436 --> 00:36:20,796 Speaker 1: fourteen year old brain was like going like holy shit 734 00:36:21,076 --> 00:36:23,556 Speaker 1: with the with the feeling that this is giving me. 735 00:36:24,236 --> 00:36:26,036 Speaker 1: And then you see John Freiantay in the video for 736 00:36:26,116 --> 00:36:28,156 Speaker 1: Under the Bridge, It's like, Okay, that's also the coolest 737 00:36:28,156 --> 00:36:31,956 Speaker 1: guy to ever do it. Yeah, the whole thing, like 738 00:36:31,996 --> 00:36:35,676 Speaker 1: the slouch, just the whole thing, Like he's the fucking goat. 739 00:36:36,076 --> 00:36:38,716 Speaker 1: And so that was the impression I had. So when 740 00:36:38,716 --> 00:36:40,316 Speaker 1: I heard he's got a solo record, I was like 741 00:36:40,396 --> 00:36:42,516 Speaker 1: already kind of like, oh cool, I want to hear that, 742 00:36:43,196 --> 00:36:46,156 Speaker 1: and then I just love, love, love love that record. 743 00:36:46,796 --> 00:36:47,596 Speaker 3: Have you met John? 744 00:36:48,716 --> 00:36:53,036 Speaker 1: I did meet John with Rizza. Yeah, and again, you know, 745 00:36:53,276 --> 00:37:00,236 Speaker 1: start just refer back to my Dave Grohl comments. I 746 00:37:00,356 --> 00:37:02,156 Speaker 1: just you know, I don't know. If you give me 747 00:37:02,196 --> 00:37:05,316 Speaker 1: like sixteen visits with somebody, then I'll break through. But 748 00:37:05,476 --> 00:37:07,916 Speaker 1: you can I got to make an impression, like one time. 749 00:37:07,996 --> 00:37:10,916 Speaker 1: It's just I think I I think I failed. He 750 00:37:10,996 --> 00:37:13,076 Speaker 1: was fascinating. I was at his house to watch a 751 00:37:13,396 --> 00:37:18,076 Speaker 1: Mayweather Canelo fight actually because Riza and him are like besties, 752 00:37:18,396 --> 00:37:20,076 Speaker 1: and so I was working with Riza and they just 753 00:37:20,116 --> 00:37:23,036 Speaker 1: brought me along and I mean it was epic. I mean, 754 00:37:23,116 --> 00:37:25,076 Speaker 1: Fruchiante was working on a hip hop record that he 755 00:37:25,116 --> 00:37:27,556 Speaker 1: was producing at the time, and he played that to 756 00:37:27,636 --> 00:37:32,116 Speaker 1: me and I was floored. It was incredible. And some 757 00:37:32,196 --> 00:37:34,076 Speaker 1: of the things he told me about hip hop I 758 00:37:34,116 --> 00:37:36,876 Speaker 1: had never thought about, and like, you know, I was 759 00:37:36,996 --> 00:37:40,116 Speaker 1: very impressed. He's a very incredible individual. But I didn't 760 00:37:40,116 --> 00:37:44,516 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we yeah, I don't. I didn't 761 00:37:44,516 --> 00:37:45,676 Speaker 1: give him my phone number anything. 762 00:37:45,716 --> 00:37:47,836 Speaker 3: And that was that he had him become bestie. No, 763 00:37:47,996 --> 00:37:49,716 Speaker 3: that's like a proper hang though. I thought you were 764 00:37:49,716 --> 00:37:52,476 Speaker 3: going to say, you like crosspaths at backstage at a 765 00:37:52,516 --> 00:37:53,476 Speaker 3: festival or something. 766 00:37:54,396 --> 00:37:56,596 Speaker 1: Uh No, No, it was you know, we had some chests, 767 00:37:56,596 --> 00:37:57,356 Speaker 1: we had some chats. 768 00:37:57,636 --> 00:37:59,556 Speaker 3: That's cool. Do you remember what he was talking about 769 00:37:59,556 --> 00:38:00,116 Speaker 3: with hip hop? 770 00:38:01,436 --> 00:38:03,316 Speaker 1: Well, one thing was I was talking about how I 771 00:38:03,316 --> 00:38:06,276 Speaker 1: love like the cadence and how I've always felt like 772 00:38:06,316 --> 00:38:09,476 Speaker 1: it was I'm just more interested in hip hop than 773 00:38:09,596 --> 00:38:12,916 Speaker 1: rock music since like the beginning of intropol. Basically, I 774 00:38:12,916 --> 00:38:15,876 Speaker 1: haven't listened to rock in my free time at all 775 00:38:15,956 --> 00:38:18,556 Speaker 1: in the last like twenty years. And one of the 776 00:38:18,596 --> 00:38:20,156 Speaker 1: things I say about hip hop or in the early 777 00:38:20,196 --> 00:38:21,756 Speaker 1: days was that it was just like a much more 778 00:38:22,316 --> 00:38:24,676 Speaker 1: fertile genre. Like that's what I say in like oh 779 00:38:24,676 --> 00:38:26,996 Speaker 1: two when we were doing our first like that I 780 00:38:26,996 --> 00:38:29,116 Speaker 1: don't care about the genre of rock and I just 781 00:38:29,196 --> 00:38:31,156 Speaker 1: care about this other genre. But what I would say is, 782 00:38:31,196 --> 00:38:34,556 Speaker 1: like the lack of melody in the vocal means that 783 00:38:34,636 --> 00:38:37,156 Speaker 1: the lyric has to be a little bit more impactful, 784 00:38:37,156 --> 00:38:39,436 Speaker 1: and also like the flow and the rhythms are more interesting. 785 00:38:39,516 --> 00:38:41,676 Speaker 1: And like I was saying that kind of standard thing 786 00:38:41,676 --> 00:38:43,836 Speaker 1: that I say about hip hop to John frascionte and 787 00:38:43,876 --> 00:38:46,716 Speaker 1: he's like, who wha, whoa, whoa, whoa. There definitely is 788 00:38:46,796 --> 00:38:50,476 Speaker 1: melody in the lyrics of hip hop. And I was like, 789 00:38:50,636 --> 00:38:53,116 Speaker 1: huh okay, and he basically explained to me that, like 790 00:38:53,196 --> 00:38:55,876 Speaker 1: it's not what would you would call like, it's not 791 00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:58,596 Speaker 1: like the absence of pitch, like there is pitch in 792 00:38:58,716 --> 00:39:03,636 Speaker 1: like there is no choice in a rap lyric. Yeah, 793 00:39:03,076 --> 00:39:05,356 Speaker 1: And now I kind of see him like, oh, yeah, 794 00:39:05,356 --> 00:39:07,956 Speaker 1: that's that's kind of obvious or it would sort of 795 00:39:08,036 --> 00:39:11,036 Speaker 1: sign sound clash. But in the same way, I almost 796 00:39:11,036 --> 00:39:14,436 Speaker 1: looked at like spoken word, it's indeterminate pitch. I guess 797 00:39:14,436 --> 00:39:16,876 Speaker 1: you call it like it doesn't matter what note the 798 00:39:16,996 --> 00:39:19,716 Speaker 1: voice is hitting. And I looked at hip hop that way, 799 00:39:19,716 --> 00:39:22,316 Speaker 1: and he kind of corrected me. I think he also 800 00:39:22,436 --> 00:39:25,116 Speaker 1: said some stuff about like drum production that I can't 801 00:39:25,156 --> 00:39:28,116 Speaker 1: remember offhand, but like it's it's definitely some like mad 802 00:39:28,236 --> 00:39:32,036 Speaker 1: genius kind of stuff. Yeah, he's definitely on another level. 803 00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:34,436 Speaker 3: Like somebody who has perfect pitch and can hear pitch 804 00:39:34,436 --> 00:39:34,956 Speaker 3: and everything. 805 00:39:36,916 --> 00:39:39,436 Speaker 1: More than that, it's like they just can like see 806 00:39:39,476 --> 00:39:43,476 Speaker 1: details in everything and in like keep track of them 807 00:39:43,516 --> 00:39:46,316 Speaker 1: in their mind and have kind of like aesthetic preferences 808 00:39:46,356 --> 00:39:50,156 Speaker 1: over dimensions that most of us don't even notice. 809 00:39:50,436 --> 00:39:50,956 Speaker 3: So cool. 810 00:39:51,476 --> 00:39:54,476 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's kind of like a wizard perspective. 811 00:39:54,516 --> 00:39:57,836 Speaker 1: It's as I say, it's like it's like having preferences 812 00:39:57,836 --> 00:39:59,716 Speaker 1: in things that the rest of us might just be like, 813 00:39:59,756 --> 00:40:02,396 Speaker 1: I didn't know you could have a preference on that matter. 814 00:40:03,116 --> 00:40:06,916 Speaker 3: Right, Spending so much time with Rizza, did you get 815 00:40:06,956 --> 00:40:09,996 Speaker 3: a wizard feeling from him as well? What was your 816 00:40:10,036 --> 00:40:11,796 Speaker 3: impression of Rizza? 817 00:40:11,956 --> 00:40:16,436 Speaker 1: Yeah, Rizz is a bona fide genius. Whatever lore or 818 00:40:17,756 --> 00:40:21,596 Speaker 1: aura people attribute to him without knowing him, I would 819 00:40:21,596 --> 00:40:25,116 Speaker 1: say that it's definitely true. You know, he's definitely not 820 00:40:25,276 --> 00:40:30,516 Speaker 1: a regular person. He's really a genius musically and kind 821 00:40:30,516 --> 00:40:33,356 Speaker 1: of someone who's done a lot of work on themselves spiritually. 822 00:40:33,396 --> 00:40:35,636 Speaker 1: You can tell. I've never heard him say a negative 823 00:40:35,676 --> 00:40:38,276 Speaker 1: thing about anyone ever, which is like, I think he's 824 00:40:38,276 --> 00:40:40,036 Speaker 1: the first person I've ever been around that's like that 825 00:40:40,116 --> 00:40:43,076 Speaker 1: where it's like he doesn't operate in the kind of 826 00:40:43,116 --> 00:40:46,676 Speaker 1: like pettier levels that a lot of people, myself included do. 827 00:40:47,636 --> 00:40:50,196 Speaker 1: He's just sort of like geared around I think joy 828 00:40:50,196 --> 00:40:52,996 Speaker 1: and creativity, and he's like a really affable person and 829 00:40:53,316 --> 00:40:56,236 Speaker 1: just really really really intelligent and gifted. 830 00:40:57,316 --> 00:40:59,356 Speaker 3: That was the feeling I got watching the Hot Ones 831 00:40:59,396 --> 00:41:01,516 Speaker 3: when you guys were on Hot Ones like ten years ago. 832 00:41:02,356 --> 00:41:05,716 Speaker 3: He just seemed like so much fun to hang out 833 00:41:05,716 --> 00:41:08,396 Speaker 3: with and just kind of like down for whatever and 834 00:41:08,476 --> 00:41:10,636 Speaker 3: like a really outlook. 835 00:41:11,316 --> 00:41:15,356 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, but it's not entirely without intention, 836 00:41:15,916 --> 00:41:18,196 Speaker 1: Like what you perceive there would be that he's made 837 00:41:18,236 --> 00:41:20,276 Speaker 1: the decision I'm gonna go do this show that Paul 838 00:41:20,316 --> 00:41:22,996 Speaker 1: said we should do, and I'm obviously not going to 839 00:41:23,076 --> 00:41:25,036 Speaker 1: try and have a bad time or have an attitude. 840 00:41:25,076 --> 00:41:27,756 Speaker 1: I'll go and like like he chooses to go have 841 00:41:27,836 --> 00:41:30,556 Speaker 1: a nice time and be light about it. So like 842 00:41:30,596 --> 00:41:33,596 Speaker 1: there was an instance for like I've we did this 843 00:41:33,636 --> 00:41:36,996 Speaker 1: thing with like the Spike Awards. Actually Kobe was there 844 00:41:37,116 --> 00:41:38,756 Speaker 1: that time. It was the first time ever saw Kobe 845 00:41:38,796 --> 00:41:42,436 Speaker 1: speak in person. Rip. Yeah, I had no idea it 846 00:41:42,476 --> 00:41:44,436 Speaker 1: was like super intelligent guy. I was like, I didn't. 847 00:41:44,516 --> 00:41:47,796 Speaker 1: I wasn't aware at the time how intelligent Kobe clearly was. 848 00:41:48,596 --> 00:41:50,196 Speaker 1: But anyway, so like Rizzy gets up and he like 849 00:41:50,236 --> 00:41:52,316 Speaker 1: does this like like presents like the next awards. So 850 00:41:52,356 --> 00:41:53,916 Speaker 1: like first we're like at a table together like in 851 00:41:53,956 --> 00:41:55,716 Speaker 1: these nice suits that we got for the event and 852 00:41:55,756 --> 00:41:57,876 Speaker 1: like and then he gets like ushered away to go 853 00:41:57,956 --> 00:42:01,716 Speaker 1: like you know, perform like the intro to some category 854 00:42:02,476 --> 00:42:04,196 Speaker 1: on camera, and he just like nails it. And he 855 00:42:04,196 --> 00:42:05,516 Speaker 1: even like kind of I could tell he sort of 856 00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:07,956 Speaker 1: like improvised off of what the teleprompter was saying. He 857 00:42:08,036 --> 00:42:11,196 Speaker 1: was just like completely relaxed, excellently charismatic and funny and 858 00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:13,316 Speaker 1: likable and blah blah blah. And he came back to 859 00:42:13,356 --> 00:42:14,516 Speaker 1: the table and I was sort of like, man, how 860 00:42:14,556 --> 00:42:16,156 Speaker 1: do you do that? How do you just go up 861 00:42:16,156 --> 00:42:18,316 Speaker 1: there and just go to like fucking hit a home 862 00:42:18,356 --> 00:42:21,396 Speaker 1: run like that? He said like, well, I just think 863 00:42:21,436 --> 00:42:22,916 Speaker 1: about the fact that, like I'm the guy in the 864 00:42:22,956 --> 00:42:26,076 Speaker 1: cool suit, so the guy in the cool suit would 865 00:42:26,156 --> 00:42:31,796 Speaker 1: like be cool. And I realized it sounds like so simple, 866 00:42:31,996 --> 00:42:34,476 Speaker 1: it's like don't overthink it. But he like inhabits the 867 00:42:34,516 --> 00:42:37,316 Speaker 1: mode that he chooses to inhabit in that moment. I 868 00:42:37,396 --> 00:42:39,236 Speaker 1: think a lot of us are sort of more at 869 00:42:39,276 --> 00:42:44,636 Speaker 1: the subject to the environment we're in to impact how 870 00:42:44,676 --> 00:42:48,316 Speaker 1: we conduct ourselves, and I think he's someone who chooses 871 00:42:48,436 --> 00:42:52,716 Speaker 1: how he's going to conduct himself, and the environment is 872 00:42:52,996 --> 00:42:55,996 Speaker 1: sort of you know, the recipient of that rather than 873 00:42:56,076 --> 00:42:56,836 Speaker 1: affecting that. 874 00:42:57,876 --> 00:43:01,756 Speaker 3: Right, No, that's incredible. Did you get a chance to 875 00:43:01,836 --> 00:43:04,596 Speaker 3: ask him like stories about Wu Tang or did you 876 00:43:04,716 --> 00:43:06,996 Speaker 3: learn anything about the history of Wu Tang or any 877 00:43:07,076 --> 00:43:09,836 Speaker 3: sort of like anecdotes about the group that kind of 878 00:43:09,876 --> 00:43:10,636 Speaker 3: blew your mind. 879 00:43:11,796 --> 00:43:13,476 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was one thing that he said about how 880 00:43:13,476 --> 00:43:14,996 Speaker 1: like when they would want to go to like a 881 00:43:15,036 --> 00:43:18,276 Speaker 1: concert or something. I think he said they'd bum rush 882 00:43:18,396 --> 00:43:21,036 Speaker 1: the door because he'd be like, because we'd just be like, 883 00:43:21,396 --> 00:43:24,716 Speaker 1: you know, eight or nine giant dudes, and like the 884 00:43:24,756 --> 00:43:27,316 Speaker 1: bouncers would be like, what are we going to do? 885 00:43:27,756 --> 00:43:29,556 Speaker 1: So we would just bumb And I was kind of 886 00:43:29,556 --> 00:43:32,116 Speaker 1: like because I met Also, like method Man and ghost 887 00:43:32,116 --> 00:43:34,876 Speaker 1: Face are huge people. I don't know if you know that, 888 00:43:34,956 --> 00:43:40,836 Speaker 1: but they're like large dudes. And Riz is big too, 889 00:43:40,876 --> 00:43:42,556 Speaker 1: you know. So it's just kind of like, yeah, this 890 00:43:42,756 --> 00:43:45,516 Speaker 1: this idea of them kind of rolling around Brooklyn being 891 00:43:45,956 --> 00:43:48,476 Speaker 1: scary as hell. Also, I mean, I guess like the 892 00:43:48,516 --> 00:43:51,996 Speaker 1: miniseries now that Rusa has done has shown some of 893 00:43:52,036 --> 00:43:55,156 Speaker 1: this stuff. But like he told me some stuff about 894 00:43:55,556 --> 00:43:58,396 Speaker 1: the actual criminal exploits of certain members and how they 895 00:43:58,396 --> 00:44:00,636 Speaker 1: were like really legitimately scary dudes. 896 00:44:01,276 --> 00:44:02,556 Speaker 3: Any odb stories. 897 00:44:04,036 --> 00:44:07,836 Speaker 1: I just got the feeling that he really really loves ODB. Yeah, 898 00:44:07,876 --> 00:44:09,916 Speaker 1: and I think I think it was like had a 899 00:44:09,916 --> 00:44:14,116 Speaker 1: special place in Rizz's heart. I think Odb's like they 900 00:44:14,476 --> 00:44:17,956 Speaker 1: really pure, unadulterated creativity that I think was maybe just 901 00:44:17,996 --> 00:44:19,196 Speaker 1: like really something to behold. 902 00:44:20,036 --> 00:44:20,116 Speaker 2: Ye. 903 00:44:20,476 --> 00:44:22,036 Speaker 1: Like even the you know, one of his names, like 904 00:44:22,036 --> 00:44:24,036 Speaker 1: there's no father to his style is something that they 905 00:44:24,036 --> 00:44:26,436 Speaker 1: would say, and I kind of think that's, Yeah, that's 906 00:44:26,476 --> 00:44:28,116 Speaker 1: a great way to look at ODB. It's like that 907 00:44:28,276 --> 00:44:31,156 Speaker 1: just comes from nowhere. Yeah. I remember like when I 908 00:44:31,156 --> 00:44:32,636 Speaker 1: first started working with Rizz, I was like trying to 909 00:44:32,636 --> 00:44:34,796 Speaker 1: tell my mom, like, you know, the basically, like the 910 00:44:34,796 --> 00:44:37,276 Speaker 1: Wikipedia article on this person is not at all going 911 00:44:37,316 --> 00:44:40,276 Speaker 1: to give you the entire picture of how important this 912 00:44:40,356 --> 00:44:43,276 Speaker 1: person is. Like this person as the years go on, 913 00:44:43,556 --> 00:44:46,036 Speaker 1: people will start to give him the credit of being 914 00:44:47,356 --> 00:44:50,996 Speaker 1: someone very important in the history of music on a 915 00:44:51,076 --> 00:44:55,156 Speaker 1: number of levels. And yeah, really magical, magical person. 916 00:44:56,756 --> 00:44:58,516 Speaker 2: After this last break, we'll be back with the rest 917 00:44:58,556 --> 00:45:05,836 Speaker 2: of Leo Rose's conversation with Paul Banks. We're back with 918 00:45:05,876 --> 00:45:08,836 Speaker 2: the rest of Leo Rose's conversation with Paul Banks. 919 00:45:09,436 --> 00:45:12,996 Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about a couple other tracks from antics, 920 00:45:13,036 --> 00:45:15,076 Speaker 3: just so I don't leave that just high and dry. 921 00:45:15,796 --> 00:45:19,036 Speaker 3: Is there any any song in particular that stands out 922 00:45:19,076 --> 00:45:23,316 Speaker 3: to you that you remember like recording or writing. 923 00:45:24,836 --> 00:45:26,836 Speaker 1: Take You on a Cruise was a special one because 924 00:45:26,876 --> 00:45:28,916 Speaker 1: that was a song that I had no vocals for. 925 00:45:30,356 --> 00:45:33,236 Speaker 1: Oftentimes I would sort of just be focusing on writing 926 00:45:33,236 --> 00:45:35,196 Speaker 1: my guitar parts while we were writing songs, and there 927 00:45:35,196 --> 00:45:37,596 Speaker 1: would just be like that was a song that was 928 00:45:37,636 --> 00:45:40,356 Speaker 1: an instrumental until we're in the studio and then I 929 00:45:40,396 --> 00:45:41,996 Speaker 1: remember it was the one time where there was like 930 00:45:42,036 --> 00:45:44,396 Speaker 1: a pro tools rig set up downstairs for me, and 931 00:45:44,436 --> 00:45:48,116 Speaker 1: I just like worked by myself, I think even overnight 932 00:45:49,036 --> 00:45:51,876 Speaker 1: and wrote the vocal top to bottom, and then I 933 00:45:51,876 --> 00:45:53,876 Speaker 1: think the next day, like Daniel came in and like 934 00:45:53,996 --> 00:45:55,796 Speaker 1: you know, they played it back for him. Daniel often 935 00:45:55,836 --> 00:45:59,036 Speaker 1: mentions that that was like a very powerful moment for 936 00:45:59,116 --> 00:46:01,396 Speaker 1: him because it went from like having no vocal to 937 00:46:01,436 --> 00:46:05,236 Speaker 1: having like the complete treatment to Take You on a Cruise. 938 00:46:05,876 --> 00:46:07,436 Speaker 1: It was also kind of good because that song has 939 00:46:07,476 --> 00:46:09,076 Speaker 1: like a little bit more of a low key temp 940 00:46:09,476 --> 00:46:11,276 Speaker 1: than a lot of the other music, and it has 941 00:46:11,316 --> 00:46:12,956 Speaker 1: to do with the fact that it was written by me. 942 00:46:13,756 --> 00:46:15,676 Speaker 1: Just like this, like with a microphone in front of 943 00:46:15,676 --> 00:46:18,756 Speaker 1: a computer, rather than in the rehearsal room like yelling 944 00:46:18,836 --> 00:46:22,956 Speaker 1: over Sam's drums. It was more intimately composed, and I 945 00:46:22,996 --> 00:46:24,676 Speaker 1: think that was like a good thing to put in 946 00:46:24,716 --> 00:46:27,116 Speaker 1: our body of work at that time. Like it's a 947 00:46:27,156 --> 00:46:29,556 Speaker 1: little different, and I love that song. 948 00:46:30,356 --> 00:46:33,476 Speaker 3: Yeah, when the album was out and people were listening 949 00:46:33,556 --> 00:46:36,756 Speaker 3: to it and you started playing live, what songs could 950 00:46:36,756 --> 00:46:38,916 Speaker 3: you see the audience responding to. 951 00:46:39,116 --> 00:46:42,956 Speaker 1: First Evil was a big one. Uh, Slow Hands was 952 00:46:42,956 --> 00:46:46,316 Speaker 1: a big one. Nark is one that to this day 953 00:46:46,356 --> 00:46:49,636 Speaker 1: people really like, and I really like Nark. That's probably 954 00:46:49,636 --> 00:46:50,716 Speaker 1: a personal favorite for me. 955 00:46:50,996 --> 00:46:54,316 Speaker 3: Yeah, talk about Nark. Anything you remember from writing that 956 00:46:54,556 --> 00:46:55,596 Speaker 3: or recording it. 957 00:46:56,476 --> 00:46:59,236 Speaker 1: I remember writing some of the lyrics in Tompkins Square 958 00:46:59,276 --> 00:47:01,796 Speaker 1: Park while I was walking around, And it's interesting that 959 00:47:01,876 --> 00:47:06,116 Speaker 1: I would remember such a specific moment, but I literally 960 00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:09,516 Speaker 1: remember kind of like choosing to like hold off on 961 00:47:09,556 --> 00:47:12,236 Speaker 1: a vocal delivery until the second chord of my guitar 962 00:47:12,316 --> 00:47:19,996 Speaker 1: progression like blim, Like I remember mapping out where I 963 00:47:19,996 --> 00:47:22,756 Speaker 1: would sing in the verses while walking around Tompkin Square 964 00:47:22,796 --> 00:47:25,196 Speaker 1: Park on like a sunny day, And then I remember 965 00:47:25,196 --> 00:47:27,516 Speaker 1: writing more of the lyrics to that song. Arc in 966 00:47:27,556 --> 00:47:30,796 Speaker 1: a cemetery next to the studio in Connecticut. So obviously 967 00:47:30,836 --> 00:47:33,036 Speaker 1: I didn't write everything in Tompkin Square Park. It was 968 00:47:33,036 --> 00:47:35,276 Speaker 1: still some stuff I was doing while we were recording 969 00:47:35,276 --> 00:47:38,356 Speaker 1: the record. So yeah, it's funny I remember two different 970 00:47:38,436 --> 00:47:41,596 Speaker 1: lyric writing sessions and where I was for that one song. 971 00:47:42,676 --> 00:47:46,996 Speaker 3: Is there anything that you've gotten specifically from listening to 972 00:47:47,076 --> 00:47:49,316 Speaker 3: hip hop? Like I know you were talking about cadence. 973 00:47:50,036 --> 00:47:54,116 Speaker 3: Is there any inspiration you've gotten with your own performance 974 00:47:55,076 --> 00:47:56,116 Speaker 3: or your own writing style. 975 00:47:56,836 --> 00:47:59,676 Speaker 1: I used to subvert, like I loved the braggadociousness of 976 00:47:59,716 --> 00:48:01,276 Speaker 1: like a lot of hip hop, the kind of like 977 00:48:01,316 --> 00:48:03,036 Speaker 1: you know, I'm the shit and like this is all 978 00:48:03,076 --> 00:48:07,236 Speaker 1: my cool shit that I do. And I felt like, obviously, 979 00:48:07,276 --> 00:48:10,996 Speaker 1: I like don't feel like that, but I like the 980 00:48:11,036 --> 00:48:14,916 Speaker 1: idea of a person with a microphone. So I will 981 00:48:14,916 --> 00:48:17,636 Speaker 1: have lyrics where like I'll say something like the tone 982 00:48:17,756 --> 00:48:20,236 Speaker 1: is that I'm bragging, but what I'm saying is something 983 00:48:20,316 --> 00:48:23,716 Speaker 1: crazy or like I'm timeless, like a broken watch, I 984 00:48:23,756 --> 00:48:26,876 Speaker 1: make money like Fred Astaire. That's sort of my Like 985 00:48:26,956 --> 00:48:29,556 Speaker 1: imagine if a rapper was saying that, it's kind of like, well, 986 00:48:29,596 --> 00:48:31,636 Speaker 1: what is that even something to brag about? I mean, 987 00:48:31,676 --> 00:48:33,796 Speaker 1: what do you even mean? But sort of like my 988 00:48:33,916 --> 00:48:39,636 Speaker 1: surrealistic bent on on the braggadociousness of like of the 989 00:48:39,676 --> 00:48:41,396 Speaker 1: self aggrandizing tropes. 990 00:48:42,116 --> 00:48:44,516 Speaker 3: Yeah, how many different languages? Do you speak? 991 00:48:46,316 --> 00:48:51,516 Speaker 1: Spanish? Well in French, pretty well in English and Spanish. 992 00:48:51,516 --> 00:48:56,356 Speaker 3: So you speak Mexican Spanish and Spanish Spanish. It's a 993 00:48:56,396 --> 00:48:58,916 Speaker 3: little bit different, right, like different yeah dialects. 994 00:48:59,316 --> 00:49:03,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, my accent is much more natural in the Mexican dialect. Yeah, 995 00:49:04,396 --> 00:49:06,236 Speaker 1: but I learned the Spanish one. I lived in Spain 996 00:49:06,276 --> 00:49:08,236 Speaker 1: for four years and then Mexico for one year. But 997 00:49:08,956 --> 00:49:11,956 Speaker 1: the one year in Mexico, my accent became better with 998 00:49:12,036 --> 00:49:14,756 Speaker 1: Mexican Spanish than it ever was with Castilian Spanish. 999 00:49:15,596 --> 00:49:18,836 Speaker 3: Is it a little sort of like looser the Mexican Spanish? 1000 00:49:18,956 --> 00:49:22,516 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Spanish Castilian Spanish has like a real 1001 00:49:22,636 --> 00:49:25,556 Speaker 1: like kind of like an edge to it. It's like 1002 00:49:25,596 --> 00:49:30,036 Speaker 1: a like a thickness yea. And Mexican Spanish is more 1003 00:49:30,116 --> 00:49:35,396 Speaker 1: sing song and then slang in Castilian Spanish and Castiano 1004 00:49:35,556 --> 00:49:39,396 Speaker 1: is like a really fucking edgy and like dark and 1005 00:49:39,436 --> 00:49:42,956 Speaker 1: like they say crazy shit, like the turns of phrases 1006 00:49:43,076 --> 00:49:46,356 Speaker 1: like Mechicago and la leche and like all these things 1007 00:49:46,356 --> 00:49:49,676 Speaker 1: that are like just I don't want to translate it, 1008 00:49:49,716 --> 00:49:53,716 Speaker 1: but like like it's like offensive and edgy kind of 1009 00:49:53,796 --> 00:49:58,196 Speaker 1: ways of saying like holy shit. And then Mexico, the 1010 00:49:58,236 --> 00:50:00,276 Speaker 1: slang is a lot more kind of like playful, and 1011 00:50:00,316 --> 00:50:02,556 Speaker 1: there's like a lot of it spoke more to me. 1012 00:50:02,796 --> 00:50:06,276 Speaker 1: The kind of the dialect in Mexico and the word 1013 00:50:06,356 --> 00:50:09,356 Speaker 1: play and the language feels like very alive and like 1014 00:50:09,916 --> 00:50:13,316 Speaker 1: they say really funny like turns of phrase and just 1015 00:50:13,356 --> 00:50:16,756 Speaker 1: like it's like a it's like on a wavelength that 1016 00:50:16,836 --> 00:50:18,796 Speaker 1: really resonated with me. And then I had friends that 1017 00:50:18,836 --> 00:50:21,796 Speaker 1: were just like really genius, like very funny. And also 1018 00:50:21,836 --> 00:50:24,196 Speaker 1: in Spain, no one spoke to me in Spanish. But 1019 00:50:24,236 --> 00:50:27,556 Speaker 1: in Mexico I was like the the weddo gringo who 1020 00:50:27,596 --> 00:50:30,876 Speaker 1: spoke Spanish, so they actually would speak to me in Spanish. 1021 00:50:31,276 --> 00:50:33,156 Speaker 1: So I got like kind of more practice. 1022 00:50:33,156 --> 00:50:36,996 Speaker 3: There was it hard moving to new I mean not 1023 00:50:37,036 --> 00:50:39,636 Speaker 3: only going to new schools, but going to new countries. 1024 00:50:39,716 --> 00:50:41,596 Speaker 3: How did you make friends? Did you have like a 1025 00:50:41,636 --> 00:50:43,876 Speaker 3: strategy for getting in with people? 1026 00:50:44,876 --> 00:50:45,116 Speaker 2: No? 1027 00:50:45,396 --> 00:50:46,876 Speaker 1: No, I mean I did. I went to three high 1028 00:50:46,876 --> 00:50:47,956 Speaker 1: schools in three countries. 1029 00:50:48,676 --> 00:50:49,556 Speaker 3: Wow. 1030 00:50:50,436 --> 00:50:54,236 Speaker 1: But I was like badly bullied before I moved to Spain, 1031 00:50:55,076 --> 00:51:00,116 Speaker 1: like badly bullied, really like assaulted at school. 1032 00:51:00,716 --> 00:51:01,516 Speaker 3: Is that in Jersey? 1033 00:51:02,196 --> 00:51:08,076 Speaker 1: Yeah, like collective bum rushed Like yeah, I got the 1034 00:51:08,116 --> 00:51:10,796 Speaker 1: shit kicked out of me a lot in New Jersey. 1035 00:51:11,156 --> 00:51:11,636 Speaker 3: Wow. 1036 00:51:11,836 --> 00:51:14,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, like five or six instances of pretty dramatic violence 1037 00:51:15,036 --> 00:51:17,396 Speaker 1: like at school. So when I moved to Spain, it 1038 00:51:17,476 --> 00:51:19,596 Speaker 1: was like, cool, let's fucking let's get the fuck out 1039 00:51:19,636 --> 00:51:22,556 Speaker 1: of here. And then when we moved from Spain back 1040 00:51:22,556 --> 00:51:24,876 Speaker 1: to New Jersey, and that was where I was sort 1041 00:51:24,876 --> 00:51:28,396 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, same school system, same house, and I 1042 00:51:28,516 --> 00:51:31,156 Speaker 1: just had this incredible experience like going out to bars 1043 00:51:31,236 --> 00:51:33,996 Speaker 1: and like bonds with like my best friends now are 1044 00:51:34,116 --> 00:51:37,236 Speaker 1: friends that I made in Spain. Then so coming back 1045 00:51:37,236 --> 00:51:38,876 Speaker 1: to New Jersey after that, I was kind of like 1046 00:51:38,916 --> 00:51:41,876 Speaker 1: a little bit like and you know, this is for everybody. 1047 00:51:41,916 --> 00:51:43,916 Speaker 1: I don't want anything to do with any of y'all, 1048 00:51:44,116 --> 00:51:46,396 Speaker 1: like at all. And yet I did meet some lovely 1049 00:51:46,436 --> 00:51:48,516 Speaker 1: people and like, obviously the kids are kids, So even 1050 00:51:48,556 --> 00:51:50,196 Speaker 1: some of the people that had been kind of like 1051 00:51:50,796 --> 00:51:54,316 Speaker 1: the bullies, you know, I even became friendly with some 1052 00:51:54,396 --> 00:51:57,156 Speaker 1: of them, and you know, but you never really get 1053 00:51:57,276 --> 00:51:59,396 Speaker 1: rid of that stuff, Like it definitely like shaped how 1054 00:51:59,396 --> 00:52:03,756 Speaker 1: I view everybody I think, you know, bullying at that 1055 00:52:03,876 --> 00:52:06,156 Speaker 1: young age. Yeah, but so that was that was interesting. 1056 00:52:06,196 --> 00:52:08,476 Speaker 1: It was going back to that and then leaving that 1057 00:52:08,636 --> 00:52:10,676 Speaker 1: was to go to Mexico, which again was kind of like, 1058 00:52:10,756 --> 00:52:12,796 Speaker 1: I'm good, Like Spain turned out to be so dope, 1059 00:52:12,876 --> 00:52:15,916 Speaker 1: then I'm open to see what Mexico has for me. 1060 00:52:16,236 --> 00:52:18,876 Speaker 3: You know, were you angry at your parents for moving 1061 00:52:18,956 --> 00:52:20,676 Speaker 3: so much or were you did you just. 1062 00:52:20,756 --> 00:52:23,356 Speaker 1: Like when we went to Spain, I was like, cool, 1063 00:52:23,436 --> 00:52:27,036 Speaker 1: let's fucking go. I fucking hate New Jersey, so thank 1064 00:52:27,076 --> 00:52:29,996 Speaker 1: you mom and dad. And then I didn't like Spain 1065 00:52:30,076 --> 00:52:32,276 Speaker 1: when I got there, But then like a year and 1066 00:52:32,316 --> 00:52:34,876 Speaker 1: a half in, I think once I realized like, oh 1067 00:52:34,956 --> 00:52:36,596 Speaker 1: wait a minute, like I didn't like it at first 1068 00:52:36,636 --> 00:52:39,116 Speaker 1: and now I love it. Maybe that's what it's like, 1069 00:52:39,156 --> 00:52:41,636 Speaker 1: if you go anywhere in the world, you're not used 1070 00:52:41,636 --> 00:52:43,636 Speaker 1: to it at first, and then you come to love it. 1071 00:52:43,676 --> 00:52:46,756 Speaker 1: And maybe that's why everybody wherever they're from like likes 1072 00:52:46,796 --> 00:52:49,596 Speaker 1: where they're from. So once that clicked, I was like, 1073 00:52:49,636 --> 00:52:51,956 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I could just go anywhere and eventually I 1074 00:52:51,956 --> 00:52:54,916 Speaker 1: would find my way to love the place. And I've 1075 00:52:54,916 --> 00:52:57,076 Speaker 1: always been kind of an introvert, so like I always had, 1076 00:52:57,116 --> 00:52:59,796 Speaker 1: Like I always had friends. It wasn't I didn't. I 1077 00:52:59,796 --> 00:53:03,236 Speaker 1: didn't need more friends. I didn't feel friendless in New Jersey. 1078 00:53:03,236 --> 00:53:04,956 Speaker 1: I did, but that was kind of all, as I say, 1079 00:53:04,956 --> 00:53:07,876 Speaker 1: because I was like, fuck all, y'all. 1080 00:53:09,716 --> 00:53:12,076 Speaker 3: What was your relationship like with your parents? Were you 1081 00:53:12,116 --> 00:53:14,596 Speaker 3: close with them? Were you rebellious? 1082 00:53:14,956 --> 00:53:18,316 Speaker 1: Yeah? But you know, I never shoplifted and I didn't 1083 00:53:18,356 --> 00:53:21,516 Speaker 1: skip a lot of school, but I'm yeah, I got 1084 00:53:21,516 --> 00:53:24,876 Speaker 1: in trouble at school a lot for acting out in 1085 00:53:24,916 --> 00:53:27,836 Speaker 1: a goofy way. Yeah, but then you know, I also 1086 00:53:27,876 --> 00:53:29,956 Speaker 1: got good grades, so it's like it never never was 1087 00:53:29,996 --> 00:53:30,396 Speaker 1: that bad. 1088 00:53:32,356 --> 00:53:34,236 Speaker 3: Do you want to talk about being a dad at all? 1089 00:53:34,316 --> 00:53:35,156 Speaker 3: Are you open to that? 1090 00:53:35,596 --> 00:53:38,276 Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah, it's the best, the best. I really love 1091 00:53:38,356 --> 00:53:38,956 Speaker 1: being a dad. 1092 00:53:39,356 --> 00:53:41,156 Speaker 3: Has it been a big change for you. 1093 00:53:42,276 --> 00:53:47,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, it has. It's it's very very simplifying, kind of 1094 00:53:48,076 --> 00:53:50,236 Speaker 1: makes the career not matter to me as much, but 1095 00:53:50,316 --> 00:53:52,036 Speaker 1: at the same time makes me want to do better 1096 00:53:52,076 --> 00:53:54,436 Speaker 1: at my career because I want to, you know, provide 1097 00:53:54,516 --> 00:53:57,316 Speaker 1: and just do a good job and be a good example. 1098 00:53:57,396 --> 00:54:00,716 Speaker 1: But I don't care about like accolades or recognition anymore 1099 00:54:00,756 --> 00:54:02,676 Speaker 1: because it's like the only thing that matters is that 1100 00:54:02,716 --> 00:54:05,996 Speaker 1: this dude is happy and yeah, adjusted and stuff. 1101 00:54:06,636 --> 00:54:08,396 Speaker 3: It's awesome you're getting that experience. 1102 00:54:08,876 --> 00:54:11,236 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the sappiest thing that I can say 1103 00:54:11,236 --> 00:54:17,796 Speaker 1: about it too, is that I definitely I feel like 1104 00:54:17,836 --> 00:54:20,876 Speaker 1: there's a capacity for love that I had my whole life. 1105 00:54:20,876 --> 00:54:24,996 Speaker 1: But it's never been entirely safe to turn that like 1106 00:54:25,076 --> 00:54:27,356 Speaker 1: high beam all the way on. I think, you know, 1107 00:54:27,356 --> 00:54:31,356 Speaker 1: because relationships are complicated and you know, we all have 1108 00:54:31,876 --> 00:54:34,876 Speaker 1: some defenses up. So then to have like a baby 1109 00:54:34,916 --> 00:54:37,556 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh wait a minute, like the to 1110 00:54:37,636 --> 00:54:40,476 Speaker 1: turn on the sort of love beam all the way 1111 00:54:40,636 --> 00:54:44,276 Speaker 1: like without any need to sort of hide any of it. 1112 00:54:44,276 --> 00:54:47,756 Speaker 1: It's really like a beautiful experience. And I love that 1113 00:54:47,756 --> 00:54:49,356 Speaker 1: little dude so much. It's crazy. 1114 00:54:49,476 --> 00:54:52,276 Speaker 3: Oh did it take you a while? I've heard that 1115 00:54:52,316 --> 00:54:56,276 Speaker 3: sometimes with dads it can take a little while for 1116 00:54:56,356 --> 00:55:00,756 Speaker 3: that connection to form. No, or was it instantaneous? 1117 00:55:01,116 --> 00:55:01,276 Speaker 2: No? 1118 00:55:01,356 --> 00:55:03,636 Speaker 1: But I believe in kind of like normalizing the fact 1119 00:55:03,636 --> 00:55:05,876 Speaker 1: that that happens, because yeah, I've heard that, Like I've 1120 00:55:05,916 --> 00:55:07,956 Speaker 1: heard it happens from moms too, sometimes they don't have 1121 00:55:07,996 --> 00:55:09,996 Speaker 1: a bond, and so I I think it's important to 1122 00:55:10,076 --> 00:55:12,596 Speaker 1: kind of like say that that's totally reasonable and talk 1123 00:55:12,636 --> 00:55:16,916 Speaker 1: about it and you know, but no, I immediately felt 1124 00:55:16,916 --> 00:55:20,676 Speaker 1: a huge magnetism and connection to him. 1125 00:55:20,836 --> 00:55:25,196 Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing. Congratulations. Yeah, well, thanks so much, Paul. I 1126 00:55:25,276 --> 00:55:27,516 Speaker 3: appreciate you for hanging out for so long. 1127 00:55:28,156 --> 00:55:29,676 Speaker 1: My pleasure. Yeah great, thank you. 1128 00:55:32,556 --> 00:55:34,756 Speaker 2: Thanks again to Paul Banks for talking about the making 1129 00:55:34,796 --> 00:55:37,916 Speaker 2: of Antics and his creative writing process over the years. 1130 00:55:38,156 --> 00:55:40,556 Speaker 2: You can hear our favorite Interpol songs, along with some 1131 00:55:40,636 --> 00:55:43,716 Speaker 2: of Paul's solo material on a playlist at broken record 1132 00:55:43,796 --> 00:55:47,916 Speaker 2: podcast dot com. 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