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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norrey with you,

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Speaker 2: Paul Smith with us for seven years. Paul was a

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Speaker 2: member of the military's Stargate Remote Viewing program as a

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Speaker 2: remote viewer, training instructor, unit security officer, and unit historian.

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Speaker 2: He has a PhD from the University of Texas at

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Speaker 2: Austin in philosophy of mind consciousness, philosophy of science, and

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Speaker 2: philosophy of parapsychology. And here he is back on Coast

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Speaker 2: to Coast. Hey, Paul, how are you.

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Speaker 3: Hey George, I'm great. I'm looking forward to seeing you

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Speaker 3: when tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: I will see you Saturday in Salt Lake City at

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Speaker 2: the peranogm Norm Khan. However they pronounce it.

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Speaker 3: Phenomenic con It's actually a bit ways from Salt Lake.

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Speaker 3: We're out in Dinosaur Country out here in Vernal, out

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Speaker 3: in your Skinwalker ranch.

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Speaker 2: That's what I hear. It's about a three hour drive

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Speaker 2: from the airport, isn't it it is?

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Speaker 3: They're not going to make you drive it yourself, are they? No?

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Speaker 2: A we have a driver?

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Speaker 3: Oh excellent. Yeah. In fact, I'm actually at the ranch

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Speaker 3: right now. I needed a quiet place to talk to you,

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Speaker 3: and my wife didn't want me in the hotel room

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Speaker 3: keeping her awake, so I got the Skinwalker folks to

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Speaker 3: agree to let me come out here to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: From here, that's cool. How's the weather that way.

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Speaker 3: Well it's been pretty hot, but driving out here, I

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Speaker 3: ran into some rain, little rain showers, So I don't

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Speaker 3: know what's going to happen tomorrow. Paul.

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Speaker 2: How did they find you to be part of the

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Speaker 2: Stargate program?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know that was people tell you twists of fate,

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Speaker 3: and this was a twist of fate. I won't go

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Speaker 3: into the long version of the story, but I ended

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Speaker 3: up moving to Fort Mead. I was assigned to Fort

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Speaker 3: Mead as a Middle East analyst and against the Fort Mead, Maryland,

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Speaker 3: and to a kind of a townhouse housing unit military quarters,

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Speaker 3: and I moved in right next door to Skip at Water,

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Speaker 3: who lots of your listeners will know, was the training

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Speaker 3: and operations officer for the remote Viewing Unit, and across

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Speaker 3: the street from Tom McNair, who was one of their

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Speaker 3: new trainees who was learning the process. Of course, I

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Speaker 3: didn't know what they were into. I had no idea,

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Speaker 3: but in fact I tried to find out, and they

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Speaker 3: were very secretive about it.

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Speaker 2: Did you even know what remote viewing was?

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Speaker 3: At the time, I had never put the words remote

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Speaker 3: and viewing together. I had no idea there was any

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Speaker 3: such thing. And one day they knocked on my door

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Speaker 3: and said, if Paul, we think you might be good

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Speaker 3: at what we do? And I said what do you do?

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Speaker 3: And they said, we can't tell you, And so I said, well,

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Speaker 3: how do I know if i'd be any good at it?

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Speaker 3: I said, well, we're going to give you some tests,

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Speaker 3: and they were like Stama psychology tests and stuff. Said,

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Speaker 3: we're going to give you some tests and if you

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Speaker 3: score what we think you will, we'll we will read

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Speaker 3: you on and then you will have the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: accept you volunteering for this for this this unit that

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Speaker 3: we're in. And so apparently I took the tests and

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Speaker 3: scored where they wanted, because before I knew it, I

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Speaker 3: was sitting over in these old beat up buildings at

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Speaker 3: a desk with Tom McNair telling me that they trained

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Speaker 3: people to be psychic spies and giving me the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to actually sign up to be one. If I was

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Speaker 3: inclined to do that, and I was.

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Speaker 2: Did you know Ingo Swan at the time, or Russell

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Speaker 2: carg or any of those folks?

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Speaker 3: Never heard of any of them?

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Speaker 2: Well you did get to know them though, that's for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yes, indeed.

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Speaker 2: They were cream of the crop, those folks, aren't they?

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Speaker 3: Well, and I'll tell you it was quite remarkable getting

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Speaker 3: to meet these people. I mean, they were the giants

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Speaker 3: on whose shoulders the rest of us are standing. They're

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Speaker 3: all remarkable people. And sadly only Russell is with us today.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Russell, isn't hell that? Sadly? Ingo is gone?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Ingo's he left us a few years ago. I

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Speaker 2: missed the guy who's a great guest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So what have you been practicing? Do you still practice

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Speaker 2: remote viewing?

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Speaker 3: I do it when I need to, I will. I

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Speaker 3: do a lot of demonstration ones. I do operational remote

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Speaker 3: viewings every once in a while to do a demonstration

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Speaker 3: for Media company. But my main mission today is teaching

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Speaker 3: people about it, both both about it and how to

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Speaker 3: do it. And that's where I'm spending most of my time.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell a good student from a bad one

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Speaker 2: real quickly?

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Speaker 3: Usually not? And it's quite surprising. Sometimes you'll get someone

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Speaker 3: who you swear is going to be a good student

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Speaker 3: and they turn out not to be at all. And

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Speaker 3: sometimes you get somebody who you're you doubt are going

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Speaker 3: to be any good and then they turn out to

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Speaker 3: be quite brilliant. I guess that's one of the things

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Speaker 3: that makes this exciting is because you oftentimes don't know.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Of course, the research that they did that put off

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Speaker 3: in Tard dead with Ingo's help showed that just about

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Speaker 3: anybody can learn how to do this. There's probably a

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Speaker 3: few extreme cases where they can, but in general, just

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Speaker 3: about anybody can learn how to be a remote viewer,

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Speaker 3: and some learn better than others, obviously, and that's where

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Speaker 3: the difference comes up.

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Speaker 2: Are some of us born with the skill?

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Speaker 3: Well, nobody's born with the skill, but they are born

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Speaker 3: with the ability and they develop the skill. Now that's

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Speaker 3: a great question, actually, George, because and I'll explain why.

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Speaker 3: I have this analogy that kind of explains what I'm

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Speaker 3: talking about here. That is, we are all born with

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Speaker 3: the ability to read. We all have the necessary things

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Speaker 3: about us that allow us to be able to read.

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Speaker 3: But when we're born, until somebody teaches us how to

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Speaker 3: read we don't know how to do it, and yet

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Speaker 3: all have We all are born with the ability, we

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Speaker 3: just have to acquire the skill. And that's the way

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Speaker 3: it kind of goes with remote viewing.

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Speaker 2: When they put the Stargate program together, what was the

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Speaker 2: main mission.

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Speaker 3: Paul, Well, I'm going to tell you a little history

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Speaker 3: that maybe I haven't told you before. The first task

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Speaker 3: that the CIA wanted them to develop was how to

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Speaker 3: use psychokinesis mind over matter. They were hoping that there

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Speaker 3: might be a way that they could disable Soviet missiles

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Speaker 3: or something like that, computer systems and all that with.

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Speaker 2: The mind, with the mind, right with.

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Speaker 3: The mind, And of course it would have been great

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Speaker 3: if you could do that. What SRI so it was

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Speaker 3: Stanford Research inst to this big think tank that does

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Speaker 3: a lot of government projects. They were the ones that

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Speaker 3: were the home base for this research. And what the

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Speaker 3: SRI researchers, Russell tar Englishwan helped put off in others,

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Speaker 3: They determined that psychokinesis itself was real, but they couldn't

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Speaker 3: control it, and they couldn't direct it. You couldn't predict

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Speaker 3: when it was going to work and when it didn't,

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Speaker 3: and the CIA got frustrated with that and said, well

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Speaker 3: that's not going to help us any Well, it got

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Speaker 3: anything else essentially, and then remote viewing came to the

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Speaker 3: fore and they developed that and the purpose, of course

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Speaker 3: was to help us learn the secrets of our enemies

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Speaker 3: or foreign threats or whatever that they didn't want to

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Speaker 3: share with us, that other intelligence collection means couldn't find out.

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Speaker 3: And there were certainly plenty of those. I mean, satellites

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Speaker 3: aren't the miracle that you see on TV. They're helpful,

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Speaker 3: they're very valuable, but they aren't always right. Of course,

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Speaker 3: Signals intelligence listening in on community cations and stuff will

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Speaker 3: give you a lot of information, but not always what

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Speaker 3: you need. There are things that the enemy can hide

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Speaker 3: from all these other collections, they can't hide it from

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Speaker 3: remote viewing.

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Speaker 2: But it's putt dramatic. Now, how do you itie you

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Speaker 2: in remote viewing with UFOs?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's an interesting story. The first actual formal connection

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Speaker 3: to it was back in nineteen I want to say

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three ish sometime during that period. And there's

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Speaker 3: one of the early remote viewers and he was a legend.

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Speaker 3: He was an amazing remote viewer. His man named Pat Price,

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Speaker 3: just one little sidebar piece of interesting information. Pat Price

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Speaker 3: was from Salt Lake City, which is where you're going

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Speaker 3: to land right, and where you're going to drive from

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Speaker 3: to get to the conference. So Pat was originally from

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Speaker 3: Salt Lake City. He was in California at this time,

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Speaker 3: and he was really good at doing essentially amazing remote viewing,

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Speaker 3: very successful remote viewings. In fact, at one point he

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Speaker 3: was able to produce code words and names the personnel

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Speaker 3: and such in a highly classified NSA facility that it

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Speaker 3: caused actually the government to investigate sright to make sure

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Speaker 3: they didn't have spies in the NSA. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: pretty funny because because Price was so good at it.

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Speaker 3: But one day he got bored. I guess one evening

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Speaker 3: he got bored, and the next morning he walks into

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Speaker 3: the Hall put Off's office and he drops a stack

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Speaker 3: of papers on Hal's desk and says, you know, I

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Speaker 3: was just kind of looking around the planet last night,

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Speaker 3: and he said, I found four UFO bases. One of

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Speaker 3: them was in the Pyrenees, one of them is in

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Speaker 3: Mount Hayes and Alaska, one of them is in Africa,

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Speaker 3: and one of them was in Australia Mountain Zealand in Australia. Huh,

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Speaker 3: And he had all these detailed. Interestingly, the one in

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Speaker 3: Mount Hasey called a maintenance base. That's where they repaired

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Speaker 3: things right. And so, you know, Hal didn't know what

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Speaker 3: to do with this, but he had to report it

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Speaker 3: to his his CIA handlers, you know, the people who

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Speaker 3: are paying the bills. And so he called up his

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Speaker 3: contract and monitor, a guy named Kit Green, and he said, Kit,

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Speaker 3: you know, I had Pat Price walking in my office

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Speaker 3: and he had this all this UFO stuff. I don't

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Speaker 3: know what to make of it, he said. He told

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Speaker 3: Kit there's four bases and one of them is, you know,

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Speaker 3: in Australia. And Kit says, well, interestingly, I know the

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Speaker 3: station chief in Australia. Why what, what where's this place

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Speaker 3: he's talking about. He said, well, it's Mountain Seal And

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Speaker 3: Kit said, I'm going to call up my friend, the

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Speaker 3: station chief. I'm going to ask him, without asking any

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Speaker 3: leading quies, she's going to see what he can tell

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Speaker 3: me about this area. So he calls up the guy

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Speaker 3: and he says, listen, you know I've got some interest

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Speaker 3: in the Mountain zeal area. What can you tell me

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Speaker 3: about it? And the station chief says, Oh, you mean,

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Speaker 3: are you talking about that place where all the all

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Speaker 3: the UFOs are always flying?

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Speaker 2: He gave it away, he did. They changed the name

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Speaker 2: from UFOs to U.

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Speaker 3: I p s.

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Speaker 2: What do you think of that?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think it was a good idea. Actually,

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you asked that, because I oftentimes when I'm

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Speaker 3: talking to people about this, they get kind of annoyed

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Speaker 3: about this name change. They well, what's wrong with UFO?

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Speaker 3: He's a perfectly good, good acronym. I'm identified flying object

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Speaker 3: And I'll tell him in fact was I was talking

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Speaker 3: to Jay Stratton today at the conference about this very thing,

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Speaker 3: and he agrees with me. So or maybe I agree

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Speaker 3: with him. I don't know which it is anyway, the

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Speaker 3: way I expect as I say, look, UFO is what

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Speaker 3: we call in philosophy a theory laden term. There's all

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Speaker 3: kinds of assumptions that lay behind the words that the

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Speaker 3: UFO acronym stands for so unidentified that isn't problematic and

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Speaker 3: uap UFO both both places that U means unidentified. No

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Speaker 3: one disagrees with that. We don't know what these things are.

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Speaker 3: But if for flying, that's problematic because they're Yeah, a

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Speaker 3: lot of these are up in the air and they

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Speaker 3: and they're propagating through the air, but we don't know

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Speaker 3: if they're flying in the sense that we usually think

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Speaker 3: of flying. They may be using some other kind of

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Speaker 3: propagation and they just happen to be in the atmosphere

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Speaker 3: and we assume that's flying because of our earthly experience,

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Speaker 3: and yet maybe they're not really flying in the sense

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Speaker 3: we mean that. And object is an even bigger problem

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Speaker 3: because we always assume these are object, and there's evidence

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Speaker 3: suggested least some of them are, but there's also evidence

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Speaker 3: that just suggests some of them are something else than

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Speaker 3: an object, that there may be some kind of plasma formation,

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Speaker 3: or they may even be some kind of projected hologram

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Speaker 3: kind of a thing. We don't know. We don't know

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Speaker 3: if they're all objects. So the idea of the UAP

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Speaker 3: term is of course unidentified but a. It used to

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Speaker 3: be aerial, but now it's anomalous phenomenon because we don't

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Speaker 3: know what they are, and that the word anomalous allows

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Speaker 3: us to consider a lot of different things under that notion,

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Speaker 3: and then a phenomenon allows it to be an object,

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Speaker 3: but also allows it to be something else. Okay, So

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Speaker 3: we don't know that they're all objects, and so when

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Speaker 3: you say phenomena, phenomena, sorry, phenomenon, when you say phenomenon,

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Speaker 3: then it might be an object, might be something else,

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Speaker 3: And until we actually can get down to the base

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Speaker 3: case of it, we can't really claim that they are

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Speaker 3: all objects. Okay, So it clears a lot of things up. Now.

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Speaker 3: The middle one the a right for UAP. Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: used to be aerial. Well they change that because that

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Speaker 3: was the problem as well. We have these things called

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Speaker 3: trans material UFOs, right or UAPs. And then the current case,

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Speaker 3: they aren't all in the air. Sometimes they're in the water,

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Speaker 3: Occasionally they're in the earth.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 3: If you say ariel, that eliminates a bunch of different

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Speaker 3: possibilities that we clearly observe are occurring out there. So

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Speaker 3: UAP seems to be the best term to allow us

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Speaker 3: to consider this thing in its fullness. So I hope

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Speaker 3: that wasn't too long an explanation.

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Speaker 2: Not at all. And there's a special hearing coming up

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Speaker 2: next week in the Washington d C with regards to

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Speaker 2: whistleblowers in UAPs.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's the whole interesting conundrum that we run into. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: whistle blowers run some risk when they bring these things

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Speaker 3: out of the closet, and there's a problem of course

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Speaker 3: vetting some of them. Do they really know what they

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Speaker 3: say they know? And and I think that's part of

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Speaker 3: the reason I've been following this closely, because I've been

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Speaker 3: getting ready for the conference and coming out here. But

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Speaker 3: as I understand it, I think the hearing is partially

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Speaker 3: about what whistle blowers can reveal and how you vet

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Speaker 3: whistle blowers to make sure they are who they are.

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Speaker 3: Am I right about that, George?

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Speaker 2: That's part of it. That's okay, part of it right,

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Speaker 2: That's right. And I hear Phanomicicn is sold out? Is

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Speaker 2: that true?

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Speaker 3: It is crazy? Yes, we are having so much fun.

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Speaker 3: In fact, we can hardly wait for you to get here.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna get mobbed, aren't I?

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Speaker 3: Well? I bet you are. I mean, you always are,

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Speaker 3: aren't you. You're one of the more popular people that

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Speaker 3: come to these things.

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Speaker 2: So I love meeting and our listeners. Paul.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of popular people, Eric bart is here sitting next

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Speaker 3: to me. Do you want him to say hi? Sure?

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Speaker 3: Say hi Eric? Eric?

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Speaker 2: How are you? I'm doing great? How's the conference going.

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Speaker 1: I hear only good things, So I'm playing fly on

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Speaker 1: the wall and listening as Paul answers her questions.

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Speaker 3: I have to tell you, when I walked in here,

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Speaker 3: he started bending my ear about this project he's working

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Speaker 3: on that I can't even begin to describe it. But

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Speaker 3: it's fascinating work that he's doing here, just amazing stuff.

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Speaker 2: We'll have him to set up with Tom and nab

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Speaker 2: him on the show one day.

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Speaker 3: That would be cool. That would be really cool.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever remote VI Paul A U A P.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, numerous times, and never on purpose.

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Speaker 2: Never on purpose.

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Speaker 3: I knew that or that would make you wonder. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So what people often don't understand about remote viewing is

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Speaker 3: that you have to the viewers have to be blind

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Speaker 3: to the target. Okay, they can't be they can't know

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Speaker 3: anything about the target. And there are two reasons for this.

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Speaker 3: Is one is that if they know what the target

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Speaker 3: is to start with, then all the skeptics are going

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Speaker 3: to say, ah, you're just cheated, right. The more important reason, though,

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Speaker 3: is if you know up front what the target is,

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Speaker 3: then your left brain kicks in. It starts making things up,

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Speaker 3: It starts trying to guess it generates a whole bunch

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Speaker 3: of mental noise they can get in the way of

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Speaker 3: getting the actual signal, which is pretty subtle, frankly subtle signal.

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Speaker 3: And if you know what the target is, then all

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Speaker 3: kinds of things you already knew about it, your memory,

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Speaker 3: things you could guess or speculate about it, it's all there,

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Speaker 3: and so it messes up the remote viewing. You can't

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Speaker 3: easily get the truth out of what you need to

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Speaker 3: get out of it, and so you've got to be

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Speaker 3: blind to the target. Well here's the problem. Of course,

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Speaker 3: if the tasker, and that's the person who we call

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Speaker 3: that gives you the tasking or the mission to remote you,

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Speaker 3: the tasker knows that you have to be blind. And

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Speaker 3: so if they have some kind of off the wall

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Speaker 3: kind of a target they want you to work, they

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Speaker 3: can give it to you and you won't know that

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Speaker 3: it's off the wall until you get into it. Right now,

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Speaker 3: I'm saying off the wall jokingly because UAP targets are

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Speaker 3: not well, some of them are off the wall, but

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Speaker 3: many of them are important, right, And so I was

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Speaker 3: tasked on numerous UAP kinds of targets without even knowing

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Speaker 3: I was tasked on them until I got into the

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Speaker 3: chef session or until I was done.

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