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Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything, So don't don't do Hi, America and

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Speaker 1: other places that I presume exists but cannot currently prove

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Speaker 1: the reality of. Uh, this is the worst year ever,

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Speaker 1: as you're aware of because you're living through it. And

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Speaker 1: I am Robert Evans here today with my co hosts

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Speaker 1: Stole yp There we go, Cody dot Katie, Cody dot Katie,

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Speaker 1: Stole dot Kate. Um, you'd both be dot orgs. I

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Speaker 1: am not. I did not register myself as an organ. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you'd better not have done with dot us because that's

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Speaker 1: a real pain in the ass. M. I don't like

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Speaker 1: I accidentally ceo dot c O. Ye, that would be

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Speaker 1: good at Oh and you could be if you could,

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Speaker 1: if you move to Canada, you could be Katie dot

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Speaker 1: c A. I'd love to move to Canada. Actually, right

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Speaker 1: now I'm thinking Denmark looks good. Denmark's looking good. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know who you know who did a really good

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Speaker 1: job of handling their coronavirus outbreak? Apparently? Yeah, I mean yes,

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Speaker 1: A number of places that aren't where we live did

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Speaker 1: did jobs in very different tactics. Yeah, it seems like

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Speaker 1: they got a handle on it, so I know, open

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Speaker 1: air prisons. Prisons. Yeah, well we are not. We hadn't

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Speaker 1: we We had not introduced the subject of this week's episode.

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Speaker 1: But Cody, thank you for doing that. We speaking of

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Speaker 1: prisons was the best that's every went one accident speaking

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Speaker 1: of prisons. Let's all stop saying that our homes are

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Speaker 1: like a prison, because that is not fair to prisons

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Speaker 1: or doing justice to the situation which we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about today. Yes, yes, yeah, I'm always whenever

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Speaker 1: I hear that, I'm always reminded of Um. I apologize

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Speaker 1: to listeners that one episode of The Office where they

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Speaker 1: had like a prisoner work program, yes, and everyone was

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Speaker 1: referring to the Office as a prison, and Michael Scott

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Speaker 1: was like, no, it's actually good see and everyone's like, yeah, obviously,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's not like prison. Yes, although I will say,

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Speaker 1: are are are the current the current terms that under

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Speaker 1: which many Americans, including ourselves, are our our social distancing.

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Speaker 1: If you were going to compare it to a prison,

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Speaker 1: you might compare it to the kind of prison that

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Speaker 1: people go to after they steal billions of dollars um

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Speaker 1: and and cause tens of thousands of people to lose

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Speaker 1: their homes like that. It's like it's like it's like

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Speaker 1: white collar crime prison. It's broadly like that. It's like

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein prison. Well, no, no, no, the first time around,

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Speaker 1: the first time around he went, he went to a

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Speaker 1: cushy prison place where he was allowed out every day

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Speaker 1: to go to work. Yeah, we're all experiencing something that's like,

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Speaker 1: like broadly similar to how Jeffrey Epstein was incarcerated the

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Speaker 1: first time. Yes, that's that's a good way to look

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Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, my experiences to Yeah, is that the

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Speaker 1: end of the episode. Are we done now? Yeah, we're done.

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Speaker 1: We've we've hit it. No, speaking of open air prisons,

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein is episode. Yes, yeah, this was this was

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Speaker 1: all part of our our goal of tying Jeffrey Epstein's

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Speaker 1: first incarceration, uh to the the lockdown of Gaza Um

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Speaker 1: for reasons that I think have escaped us all and

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Speaker 1: never made a much sense to begin with, And we're

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Speaker 1: always a bad idea. Thank you for listening, yep. Goodbye.

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Speaker 1: In conclusion, goodbye, Uh, Okay, are we gonna start the episode? Um?

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Speaker 1: I'll go because I think my section probably first, because

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Speaker 1: it's about like yeah, okay, all right, So just for

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Speaker 1: listener's sake, none of us are doing great with the

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Speaker 1: quarantine today the month we're recording this, and and so

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Speaker 1: starting this episodes a little bit of a ship show

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Speaker 1: because I think I don't want to speak for everyone else,

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Speaker 1: but this is also me starting my week, and it's

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Speaker 1: not going great. It's definitely the beginning of a new week,

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Speaker 1: and UM, we're all to our best, which is not

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Speaker 1: very good. No, it's not. It doesn't sound like it's

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Speaker 1: great today. UM. We so obviously, as I'm sure at

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Speaker 1: least the title has indicated, we certainly have not the

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Speaker 1: hosts of the show. UM, but we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about prisons today and this week. We have an interview

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Speaker 1: later this week as well on this topic. UM. Because

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Speaker 1: if you've been reading the news, which for that, I

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Speaker 1: am sorry if you have been. Um, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of COVID cases in prisons, UM, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about what to do about that

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Speaker 1: and protests going on. We'll we'll get into all of it,

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Speaker 1: but is generally and like I won't get into the

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Speaker 1: conditions of prisons in general. I think listeners and hosts

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Speaker 1: and everybody probably No, it's not not great good guests.

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Speaker 1: Good guests would be not great. Um, but just in

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Speaker 1: terms of this pandemic and the things that we all

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Speaker 1: need to do, like social distancing. Um, the inmate population

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Speaker 1: federal prisons exceeds their rated capacity by twelve to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I can interject, I found a startling statistics. So

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Speaker 1: California has one of a really bad problem with current

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Speaker 1: virus and its prisons. Ten years ago, a federal court

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Speaker 1: ordered the state to reduce its in mate population and

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Speaker 1: they were required to reduce it to less than a

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty seven point five percent of capacity. So

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Speaker 1: they were they were above a hundred and thirty five

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Speaker 1: point seven percent capacity of their prisons. Um, there are

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Speaker 1: today a hundred and fourteen thousand people housed in California's

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Speaker 1: main prisons, which were designed to support eighty five thousand people.

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Speaker 1: So just like, and that's as Cody saying, that's a

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Speaker 1: nationwide thing. I just picked California because it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the starkest example. But um, that's like, that's like

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Speaker 1: say your your local concert hall is supposed to fit

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Speaker 1: three hundred people and they fit five hundred people in there.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to be happy about that for a

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Speaker 1: variety of reasons. And I actually do think it's maybe

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Speaker 1: a good idea just to quickly say some of the

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Speaker 1: things that are are wrong with prisons in general, even

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Speaker 1: outside of coronavirus, their existence, their existence, sure not the

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Speaker 1: whole conversation as well. But you know, it's not cleanly,

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Speaker 1: it's not safe. Uh they as you mentioned, you know,

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Speaker 1: overcrowding of prisons is a real epidemic, and it's a

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Speaker 1: real problem, and there's a lot of social issues and

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Speaker 1: reasons why it is that way. But it's impossible for

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Speaker 1: prisoners to keep distance from each other. It's impossible to

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Speaker 1: even maintain a bare minimum of cleanliness that is required

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Speaker 1: to survive this pandemic. You know, they don't have to

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Speaker 1: water like we do, or soap. Yeah, they can't. They

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Speaker 1: aren't allowed to have antibacterial soap because there's alcohol in

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Speaker 1: it and so they could drink it. Um. So that

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Speaker 1: was an initial problem. Another major problem is that nationwide

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Speaker 1: and estimated, incarcerated people in jails and prisons have at

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Speaker 1: least one chronic medical condition, which renders them significantly more

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Speaker 1: vulnerable to COVID nineteen UM. Thanks thanks for participating. By

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Speaker 1: the way, a Katie, in this long hijacking of Cody's

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Speaker 1: train of thought, you should return things to Cody now.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's all nested in the whole point, um,

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Speaker 1: which is that even if like let's say, even capacity

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Speaker 1: was down and uh that's not good. Uh that's not ideal.

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Speaker 1: No reason one likes to be on a full plane flight, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: like this wouldn't be an ideal situation to implement any

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Speaker 1: of these things anyway. And it just so happens that

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Speaker 1: it's much worse than that. Yeah, if the problem were

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Speaker 1: less bad than it is, it would be a problem, right, cool,

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Speaker 1: Very cool. Yeah, it's just it. It's happening everywhere in counties.

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Speaker 1: You'll see here is all these reported cases in this county,

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Speaker 1: like Brazoria County in Texas, cases were reported. Five of

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Speaker 1: those were from their facility. It's just over and over.

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Speaker 1: Last week, the majority of inmates hadn't been tested. In

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Speaker 1: Cook County Jail in Chicago, even though the majority had

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Speaker 1: not been tested, they still had two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: inmates and one fifteen staff members testing positive. In Ohio,

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Speaker 1: the Marrying Correctional Institution had two thousand, eleven inmates testing positive,

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Speaker 1: which is eight percent of their prison population. UM. Again

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Speaker 1: speaking of staff, on d fifty four of fifty staff

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Speaker 1: UH tested positive. UM. And also NPR reported that, Uh

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Speaker 1: these tests were two thousand eleven inmates were testing positive.

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Speaker 1: They didn't even get to see the results of their tests. UM.

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Speaker 1: They like, the tests were done and they found out,

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Speaker 1: oh this many prisoners here had are testing positive, but

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Speaker 1: the individuals did not get informed of whether or not

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Speaker 1: they tested positive. UM, which makes all of the things

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Speaker 1: that we need to do harder. UM. Again would to

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Speaker 1: been easy, but they made it harder. UM. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot security prison in San Pedro called Terminal Island UM

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Speaker 1: and nine cute name, a great name for the current situation.

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Speaker 1: Terminal Island, my god, Uh, six ninety three of its

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Speaker 1: one thousand, forty two and sixty of their prison are

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Speaker 1: testing positive. UM and nice yeah, really close to being nice. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it's just case after case of this kind of thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And there's the uh speaking of like funk ups in prisons.

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Speaker 1: There was just like, Michigan has the highest death rate

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Speaker 1: of any UH state in terms of like prisoners dying

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Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen and a story just dropped a few

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Speaker 1: days ago that three inmates who were infected were sent

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Speaker 1: to one of Michigan's prisons that had no coronavirus cases

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Speaker 1: just because up and testing, which is craft. But it

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Speaker 1: wasn't full of mirth or away. And yeah, like you were,

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Speaker 1: you were alluding to, like a lot of them, A

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Speaker 1: lot of prisoners have pre existing conditions and certain extreme cases.

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Speaker 1: Um and Uh, there's what Federal Medical Center in Fort Worth,

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Speaker 1: which is where a lot of them go. Um, there

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Speaker 1: are at six cases there out of four sixty three people. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's because of the conditions of not only the facilities,

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Speaker 1: but also of the inmates there. Um and so it's

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Speaker 1: just there's so many everywhere, and it's it's clearly a

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Speaker 1: problem these kinds of places specifically. Um and there. You

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Speaker 1: know prisons, we all we all know co hosts and listeners,

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Speaker 1: everybody of the problems with prisons in general. We've talked

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Speaker 1: about it on the show. Um. But there's just so

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Speaker 1: many people there that are elderly that have these can

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Speaker 1: auditions and problems, that have been in prison for decades

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Speaker 1: and probably don't need to be there anymore. Like there's

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Speaker 1: a study from the Brennan Center for Justice that found

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Speaker 1: no compelling public safety reason to incarce rate thirty nine

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Speaker 1: percent of the inmates in state and federal prisons. It's

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Speaker 1: about five seventy six thousand people. Elderly Americans are especially

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Speaker 1: unlikely to commit further crimes once released. The United States

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Speaker 1: Sentence and Commission found in twenty seventeen the defenders over

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Speaker 1: the age of sixty five had just a thirteen point

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Speaker 1: four percent chance of being re arrested in an eight

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Speaker 1: year period after release, compared to a sixty seven point

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Speaker 1: six percent chance for those under age twenty one. UM.

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Speaker 1: So these are people who have been in prison for

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Speaker 1: decades and decades for things, you know, ranging from uh,

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Speaker 1: it could be a violent defense, it could be like

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Speaker 1: a tax thing, it could be any like having like

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Speaker 1: a little bit of weed on him, who knows. Um.

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Speaker 1: But they're over sixty five, and if you release them

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Speaker 1: into the public to get them out of this situation

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Speaker 1: that they're not in there for this, they're not in

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Speaker 1: there to die of this virus UM, then it's not

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Speaker 1: like an immense threat to public safety to release them.

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Speaker 1: And it's very frustrating because, um, if you if you

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Speaker 1: try to lay out the actual facts of incarceration in America. Um,

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Speaker 1: you wind up like like ian like okay. So one

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Speaker 1: of the arguments you'll hear for people who will complain

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Speaker 1: about how many people are incarcerated is the number of

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Speaker 1: non violent drug offenders, and that is a problem. But

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Speaker 1: the the reality of the situation is that most people

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Speaker 1: who are incarcerated in the United States for long sentences

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Speaker 1: have committed some sort of violent crime. UM. The numbers

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Speaker 1: are that about fifty of federal inmates something somewhere around there,

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Speaker 1: a little over half are on some sort of drug offense.

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Speaker 1: But that's about ten percent of the incarcerated total UM.

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Speaker 1: And more than half of people who are incarce aided

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Speaker 1: in state prisons have some sort of violent offense. Now

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Speaker 1: that's even more complicated than it sounds for a number

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Speaker 1: of reasons. One of them is that when you like

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Speaker 1: the data that we have that determines like whether or

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Speaker 1: not somebody's you know, doing time for a violent or

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Speaker 1: non violent defense, it is based on what is marked

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Speaker 1: down as their most severe UM charge. So in a

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Speaker 1: lot of cases that means that someone who has domestic

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Speaker 1: violence and a heroin charge might look like a non

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Speaker 1: violent heroin offender, even though no, that's a person who

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Speaker 1: actually did commit a violent crime. It's just that our

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Speaker 1: system considered the heroine crime to be a more severe crime. Um.

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Speaker 1: The second factor in that, though, is that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who commit crimes like robbery and burglary that

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Speaker 1: may not have involved a violent crime but are considered

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Speaker 1: violent crimes get written down as violent criminals. Um. But

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Speaker 1: the broader issue is that this leads to a situation

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Speaker 1: wherein a lot of Americans, if if they find out

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Speaker 1: someone has a violent crime in their history period, um,

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Speaker 1: then they suddenly have no desire in You know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of Americans have gotten on board the idea that

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Speaker 1: like drug offenders should be let out and consistently, when

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Speaker 1: people are asked to estimate what percentage of the prison

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Speaker 1: population are non violent drug offenders, they vastly overestimate how

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Speaker 1: many Americans are just in prison for a drug offense.

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Speaker 1: But when and so when people find out like like

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Speaker 1: like like so when you you've looked at the way

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Speaker 1: governors have approached talking about releasing because like in New

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Speaker 1: York and in Californian and Michigan, in a number of

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Speaker 1: states Washington, UM, you have had governors releasing at least

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Speaker 1: temporarily non violent offenders, but they all point out that

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Speaker 1: they don't want to release violent offenders and that this

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Speaker 1: will not affect violent offenders. And as Cody notes, for

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Speaker 1: one thing, it is incredibly unlikely for elderly offenders to reoffend.

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Speaker 1: It very very rarely happens. Just to interject like, isn't

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Speaker 1: that the point? Like, yeah, it should be like that

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Speaker 1: people emergeformative restorative justice, like people should be the point,

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Speaker 1: and it would be the point, and it it it's

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Speaker 1: it's this we have this difficulty. So there's another study

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Speaker 1: was reading about where they they asked people to imagine

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Speaker 1: one of their um, their relatives, a loved one, a

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Speaker 1: family member was murdered, and what sentence they think would

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Speaker 1: be effective, would be fair for the murderer, And people

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Speaker 1: pick obviously very very harsh sentences. They want they want

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Speaker 1: the book thrown at the person who took their loved

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Speaker 1: one away from them, which of course makes sense. But

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Speaker 1: when people are asked to imagine that a loved one

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Speaker 1: committed one of those crimes, um they consider the recommended

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Speaker 1: sentence to be considerably more lenient. Because when we think

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Speaker 1: about people we care about it's easier to imagine even

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Speaker 1: if they did something horrible, Um, we can imagine them

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Speaker 1: redeeming themselves because we see them as complete human beings

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Speaker 1: who may have done something terrible but that aren't washed

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Speaker 1: out and so like that. This is part of the

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Speaker 1: complexity of communicating the issues that we're having with incarceration

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Speaker 1: to people. I've had a really interesting article hole in

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Speaker 1: um a Washington. It was like a Washington conservative radio

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Speaker 1: uh jock kind of piece of ship, Jason Rants, who

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Speaker 1: was complaining that Governor Insley had released about a thousand prisoners, um,

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Speaker 1: which is is was uh not a lot of prisoners.

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Speaker 1: So this guy was pointing out that like, well, we

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Speaker 1: said on the right when they said, you know, we

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Speaker 1: conservatives said that when they started releasing prisoners, was gonna

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Speaker 1: go bad. And sure enough, just a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: after he released these prisoners, you know, a bunch of

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Speaker 1: them have reoffended. And then you get through the article

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Speaker 1: and it turns out that three people have reoffended, and

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Speaker 1: the three re offenses out of the thousand, what's the

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Speaker 1: legal definition of a bunch? Yeah, yeah, he says that,

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, it's it's it's very frustrating. So and the

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Speaker 1: and the three offenses are one person like went on

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Speaker 1: a high speed chase and was charged with a felony

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Speaker 1: account of eluding police um and to misdemeanor charges of

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Speaker 1: obstructing an officer and driving with a suspended license. Um.

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Speaker 1: No violent crimes, no one hurt, nothing, nothing all. I

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Speaker 1: wonder when he could have renewed his license. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: been out. I wonder why he ran away from the

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Speaker 1: cops that he's afraid of. Yeah, it's frustrating. Another person

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Speaker 1: UM had gotten high on methamphetamines and used a crowbar

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Speaker 1: to break wooden boards that were like had been boarded

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Speaker 1: up over a window. Like he was just like fucked

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Speaker 1: up on meth and hitting boards with a crowbar. So again,

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Speaker 1: no real damage to poverty and no violence against the human.

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Speaker 1: And then the third person had stolen seventy dollars from

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Speaker 1: a grocery worth of items from a grocery store. Yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, boy, sure would be better if they

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Speaker 1: were dying. And this is what I like. This is

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Speaker 1: why it's one of the frosting things too for me

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Speaker 1: is seeing like seeing that framing of it, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure I'm sure that this rants fellow. Ah, if it

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Speaker 1: were not like a radio rant or whatever, if it

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Speaker 1: was like a published piece, they would have shown the

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Speaker 1: original mug shots of those people when they were originally

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Speaker 1: arrested as the photo that you see of them. Uh,

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Speaker 1: because they're scary. There's the mug shots are scary, you see,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, to show those, So you got to show

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Speaker 1: them people out there worst. Um, we need to take

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Speaker 1: a really quick break, you know, for the products and

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Speaker 1: services that you know drive this show. But then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna come back and we're gonna talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the protests we're seeing pop up around the country and

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Speaker 1: what they are protesting all that stuff. You know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna reopen the gems, take some meth hit boards

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Speaker 1: with a crowbar and justify your incarceration and death by

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Speaker 1: a virus in doing so, and also products together, everything

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Speaker 1: we are have become returned. We are have become returned. Indeed, Um,

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Speaker 1: as I alluded to before the break, I'm gonna talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the prison protests that we are

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Speaker 1: seeing popping up and uh, to your point, Cody, Yes,

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Speaker 1: earlier on people probably have heard about how jails are epicenters,

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Speaker 1: truly epicenters for the outbreaks that we're seeing throughout America,

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Speaker 1: not just because of the prisoners, although everybody should be

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Speaker 1: caring about the fact that prisoners are being treated un humanely,

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Speaker 1: but also correctional officers, people that work in the facilities

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Speaker 1: and then go home and spread the virus to the

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Speaker 1: counties that they live in. So that's really important and

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Speaker 1: and hopefully you guys have seen that and you are

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Speaker 1: aware of the situation, just like nursing homes are also epicenters. Okay,

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Speaker 1: get off topic, but my problem is that the mainstream

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Speaker 1: media has not and has never been good about covering

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Speaker 1: protests around prisons, you know, the lamb stream. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have seen hunger strikes at prisons in

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Speaker 1: the past, for for conditions that we've talked about, you know,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of strikes, and they never really break the

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Speaker 1: surface of of media coverage. And I find that that

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Speaker 1: is true here. I mean, there are there are definitely

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Speaker 1: little articles about all this stuff popping up, but I

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Speaker 1: don't see very much top down coverage of of these things.

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Speaker 1: Um so I've probably together something of a list here.

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Speaker 1: I want to also just really like that on that point,

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Speaker 1: like they can't get enough of covering the protests of

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Speaker 1: the people who want to go to the right exactly.

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Speaker 1: They are obsessed with the haircut people, um but they

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Speaker 1: can't bring themselves to do more than a minute on

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Speaker 1: like on these or even just like nurses and doctors protesting.

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Speaker 1: There's so many other protests going on that aren't just

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Speaker 1: a bunch of weirdos who want to get a fucking haircut.

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Speaker 1: Very frustrating. Yeah, they're also not covering. Yeah, yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: it's it's frustrating. Is we all agreed on that. It's frustrating.

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Speaker 1: It's settled. That's why we're talking about it here today.

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Speaker 1: And I assume that the majority of our listeners care

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Speaker 1: about the conditions these people are living through. But if

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Speaker 1: you don't at least care about the fact this is

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Speaker 1: this is a very compelling argument that our country will

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Speaker 1: not have this under control until we figure out how

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Speaker 1: to handle the outbreaks in prisons as well. Okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: So some of the places that have had protests. In April,

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Speaker 1: more than a hundred prisoners at Monroe Prison in Washington State,

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Speaker 1: um UH protested after six prisoners and five staff members

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Speaker 1: were diagnosed with COVID nineteen. From what I understand, a

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Speaker 1: couple of fire alarms were set off and then the

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Speaker 1: buildings were evacuated, leading the innate sitting in a field,

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Speaker 1: some of them in masks, protesting the lack of attention

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Speaker 1: being paid to the situation. Eventually, the infected prisoners were

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Speaker 1: moved to isolation units. So that's something, although also a

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Speaker 1: thing um here in California, I don't know what that means.

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Speaker 1: And then the official word from the prison is the

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Speaker 1: situation is under control. Okay, don't worry, we put them

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Speaker 1: in solitary. Yeah. Here in California, citizens organized a protest

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Speaker 1: outside of San Quentin um, which is personally important to me.

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Speaker 1: I do not have a family member in San Quentin currently,

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Speaker 1: but I have had a family member in San Quentin

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Speaker 1: in the past for a long time. It was a

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Speaker 1: horrifying experience. Uh, they were drug charges and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: because of other things ends up there. It's a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, that to me stood out because I have

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time worrying about a loved one

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Speaker 1: who has been incarcerated specifically there. Anyway, organizers respected social

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Speaker 1: distancing by using a car caravan to demonstrate on Saturday.

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Speaker 1: You know, they would circle around, you know, hanking their horns,

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Speaker 1: protesting the conditions in there. They were also calling for

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Speaker 1: prisoners who are over the age of sixty to be released. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there have been similar car protests like that all over

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Speaker 1: the states. In Indiana back in April, organizers circled Westville

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Speaker 1: Correctional Facility after a hundred and forty three inmates and

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Speaker 1: thirty six correctional officers tested positive for coronavirus. And Raleigh,

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Speaker 1: North Korean, Rolina. Just this past weekend, another socially distant

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Speaker 1: protest was organized. Cars circle the central prison, honking horns,

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Speaker 1: and other people marched on foot carrying signs. This is

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Speaker 1: from a local news station there. Julie Schneider, organizer of

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Speaker 1: the protest, joined the dozens of people who took part

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Speaker 1: in the social distance protests in their vehicles as others

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Speaker 1: held up signs while walking around the prison. She and

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Speaker 1: others demanded an end to solitary confinement practices and improved

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Speaker 1: food and medical treatment during the coronavirus outbreak. Over years

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Speaker 1: and years, what we've seen in DPS facilities is systemic

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Speaker 1: ignoring if any kind of human rights, so that happened there.

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Speaker 1: There were also similar protests also in North Carolina and Goldsboro.

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Speaker 1: In Cleveland, actually city councilmen, but shir Jones took part

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Speaker 1: in a COVID nineteen protests outside the Marian Correctional Institution.

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Speaker 1: They have over more than two thousand infected inmates and

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Speaker 1: over a hundred and seventy five staff members UH with

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Speaker 1: coronavirus as of early May. UH. Marian is considered one

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Speaker 1: of the hardest hit COVID nineteen hot pots in the nation.

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Speaker 1: That's both believable and wildly unbelievable. You know, this is

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Speaker 1: an enormous outbreak. Again pointing to what I'd said earlier,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't stay contained in the prison. It goes out

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Speaker 1: to the community. Gosh, there's so many more. They're in Portland,

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Speaker 1: in San Diego and Florida. It's just these are not

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Speaker 1: stories that many people are aware of and tracking, or

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Speaker 1: even no are happening so that they could go and

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Speaker 1: join in the protests, you know what I mean. UM,

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Speaker 1: And that leads me to ICE facilities UM detainees that

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Speaker 1: several ICE facilities have gone on strike to demand sanitary

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Speaker 1: supplies UH and apparently in some places, it's been sort

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Speaker 1: of effective. Federal judges in California and Pennsylvania have ordered

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Speaker 1: ICE to release several detainees who have sued UH and

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Speaker 1: there are also lawsuits happening in other states, though I'm

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Speaker 1: not clear where they stand at this point, but it's

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Speaker 1: very case by case. UM. At the Stewart Detention Center,

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Speaker 1: which is a privately run ICE facility in Georgia, there

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Speaker 1: have been some unsuccessful examples of impaintes protesting their treatment

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Speaker 1: during the pandemic. Apparently sick patients were being ignored, the

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Speaker 1: problems weren't being addressed. UM. And this one I'm going

428
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: to read from is from the intercept. Carlos was on

429
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: his bed feeling sick when he turned to look out

430
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: the window and saw a group of detainees running out

431
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: a side door leading to a recreation yard. Several correctional

432
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: officers were giving chase. At first, Carlo thought that there

433
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: was a fire, but he saw correctional staff use pepper

434
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 1: spray and the detainees. Daniel, another detainee whose name has

435
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: also been changed, saw it all happened from a unit

436
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: across the hall. People were asking for medical attention for

437
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: some of the sick people in here, Daniel said. But

438
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: because they the staff didn't pay attention, they began protesting.

439
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: They started placing sheets on the windows and doors, Daniel said.

440
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: The correctional office began deploying gas, throwing detainees on the floor,

441
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: taking them in handcuffs too. He assumed solitary confinement, or

442
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: as they called it, the whole all so in this

443
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: article UH, they explained that there is a special unit

444
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: of correctional officers task with suppressing detainee disturbances, akin to

445
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: a swat team. The pepper spraying unit is known as

446
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: the Special Operations Response Team or SORT. The SORT unit,

447
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: which has not previously been reported on, is trained to

448
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: use riot shields, helmets, pepper spray, and pepper ball ammunition.

449
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: The whole article is pretty ghoulish. Apparently, this use of

450
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: force has happened twice against prisoners protesting coronavirus UH, and

451
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: both times correctional officers have gone on and and like

452
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: celebrated their use of force and stuff on social media posts.

453
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: Also from the article, The posts and aggregate gives a

454
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: series of snapshots of the SORT team's actions against the

455
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: protesting detainees. In one social media post, a sort officer

456
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: said he shot all the detainees in sight with pepper

457
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: ball projectiles. It was he said, call of Do Demode,

458
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: referring to a violent first person video game series about

459
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: going to war. Um, it's pretty horrifying, way like one

460
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: of those times in Call of Duty where you fire

461
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: into a crowd of unarmed people with pepper spray paintballs. Yeah.

462
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: And again, so what are the things that they're protesting.

463
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: They seem pretty reasonable to me that conditions prisoners are

464
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: being held in are improved, that they have access to

465
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: medical care. You know, that they're not treating sick patients

466
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: or isolating them in many cases. And I don't mean

467
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: putting them in solitary confinement. I mean removing them from

468
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: a crowded cell block. And as we've alluded to, also

469
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: for the releasing of inmates to reduce the number of

470
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: incarcerated individuals, especially people that do not need to be there, um,

471
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: you know, for a variety of reasons. If we're like

472
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: being realistic, like do they deserve to be given a

473
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: death sentence for their marijuana charges from fifteen years ago? Yeah?

474
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: And that's why I want to that because a number

475
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: of people have had their their lesser sentences become death sentences.

476
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: And I'm about to get to that. In March, William

477
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: Barr actually ordered officials running federal prisons to immediately maximize

478
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: the release of prisoners to home combinement, you know, to

479
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: help prevent the spread, and you know, urged them to

480
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: focus on the most vulnerable people and facilities, uh, such

481
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: as elderly people. UM. And that's the fine, that's that's

482
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: a good move, you know, somewhat surprising from them, but UM,

483
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: kind of it hasn't really moved the needle. I mean,

484
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: you can push back on this, but from what I'm

485
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: looking at, uh, this only applies to about two thousand

486
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: of the hundred and seventy thousand inmates and the federal

487
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: correction system. UM. And the majority of the over two

488
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: million prisoners currently being held in the United States are

489
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, states or or local level. UM. So that

490
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: leaves the decision of what to do with the majority

491
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: of the prisoners at the discretion of local governments and governors,

492
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: which I know you've prepared some stuff on Robert UM. Yeah,

493
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: I mean I wanted to talk in the context of

494
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: people having their their sentences turned into death sentences. I

495
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about E from Stutson. E from Stutson.

496
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 1: UM was convicted for selling cocaine. Uh. He served twenty

497
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: seven years in Lompoc Prison in California, and he was

498
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: released on April one. UM. Within hours of getting off

499
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: of his bus in San Bernardino, he was hospitalized for

500
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and he was dead five days later. UM.

501
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: And his sister says that, yeah, he told her as

502
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: he was in his last days in prison that he

503
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: started to get sick. Um. He was not released then, Uh,

504
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: even though it would have improved his chances to have

505
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: immediately been released to a hospital. UM. Instead, he spent

506
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: days sick in prison and then was released and died

507
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: to meeting upon coming back out into the world for

508
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: the first time in almost thirty years. UM. And there's

509
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: a number of stories like that. It's just it's horrible. UM. Yeah, yeah,

510
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, that's a whole other thing. Like

511
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: even in releasing a lot of people, if we're to

512
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: do that, like a lot of them don't have those

513
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: connections in the real world anymore. So what did they

514
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: do and where do they go? I Mean, it's the

515
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: same thing with the story that you talked about earlier

516
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: with the few inmates that have committed crimes, stole some food,

517
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: you know, or got chased by the cops and arrested

518
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: because they didn't have a valid drivers trying to try

519
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: to get somewhere needed food like this. I mean, I'm

520
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: not saying we should be going and stealing food, but

521
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: you can understand it's too late. You've said it, Yes,

522
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: steal food and you know, while you're at it, hit

523
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: some boards with a crowbar while on methamphetamine. YEA, all

524
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: good calls. I wanted to talk about some of the

525
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: governors that we've we've been celebrating recently for their their

526
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: relative competence in the face of the COVID nineteen epidemic.

527
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: Um because like Cuomo is a good example, so he's

528
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: enjoys something popularity right now. The villain from the mask

529
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: Governor Cuomo is he wait what No, but look just

530
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: look up the UM. Okay, that makes sense because he

531
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: is essentially I believe he would fight. I don't know,

532
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I don't remember anything about the mask

533
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: Cody other than Jim Carey's face is green and he

534
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: has that big that big comedy gun. It's like it's

535
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: like a lot, right, so it's it's smoking And wasn't

536
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: wasn't in the actual comics that it's based on. Wasn't

537
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: he like a horrible rapist murderer? Yeah, it's way worse. Yeah,

538
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: much darker. It's not not great in the movie either,

539
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: like most Jim Carrey movies, I guess of that era

540
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: in retrospect. Yeah, we let him get away with a

541
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: lot in the nineties. Um, but yeah, speaking of getting

542
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: away with a lot, but Andrew Cuomo, like Stanley Yell,

543
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: NAT's he is getting away with a lot. As you

544
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: pointed out, you know, Jim Carrey was able to get

545
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: away with a lot in the nineteen nineties. We all

546
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: as a society decided that he said, somebody stopped me,

547
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: and then we said no, no, no, no, we want

548
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: We're like, no, no, go on please. Yeah. Yeah, and

549
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: his if you rewatch old Jim Carrey movies, with the

550
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: exception of a spin cur At two, Um, they're all

551
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: they're all uh monstrous uh and and and the characters

552
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: that we're supposed to identify with do horrible things. And

553
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,479
Speaker 1: we just let Jim Carrey get away with it because

554
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 1: he was really good at making that one face and

555
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: and pretending to talk with his butt, and it was

556
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: a simpler time, and we all decided that was okay.

557
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: And in a similar manner, Governor Andrew Cuomo of New

558
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: York City has been allowed to get away with some

559
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: horrific actions because he's doing the gubernatorial equivalent of talking

560
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: with his butt. Um in a funny ha haa movie

561
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: which is I guess talk like an adult. Um. I

562
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: don't know it breaks down here, but you know what

563
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: doesn't break down are the products and services that support

564
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: this podcast. So we're going to talk about cuomsy. But

565
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: first here's ads Ubernatorial, my brother. I've got a joke

566
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: gubernatorial more like goober you know, booger booger. Yeah, these

567
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: are the kind of jokes you don't get with NPR podcasts,

568
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: A bunch of hacks together everything. So we talked earlier

569
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: in the episode about how old people, when released from prison,

570
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: even if they were released from violent crimes, are are

571
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: very unlikely to reoffend for a variety of reasons, including

572
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: and this is like again, it's one of the things

573
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: that it's hard to get a lot of people on

574
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: board with because you hear like someone was jailed because

575
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: they're part of a robbery where someone got murdered, and

576
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: the argument is always like, okay, well that other person,

577
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, never gets a chance for justice. And it's like, yeah,

578
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's that's fair. It's an injust universe.

579
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: But is it really better to just like lock them

580
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: up for forever, um, even though like we all can

581
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: acknowledge that none of us are the same person we

582
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: were at twenty, and maybe a sixty year old who's

583
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: been in prison for forty years should get a chance

584
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: to be a different person than were at nineteen when

585
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: they were committed armed robbery or whatever. Um, I don't know.

586
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: That's kind of my failing on the matter. But um,

587
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: what a messed up view of the world. Robert, Yeah,

588
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: it was not. It really depends on their race, Robert,

589
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, no, but it's true. Um, it was

590
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: not the opinion of of Governor Andrew Cuomo in two

591
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: thousand twelve, um that that older people should be released,

592
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: maybe after spending decades in prison, um on good behavior.

593
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: So in two thousand twelve, Valerie Gator was New York

594
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: State's longest serving incarcerated woman. Her crime she committed a

595
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: crime when she was twenty one years old. She participated

596
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: in the deaths of an elderly couple Blues during a

597
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: robbery gone wrong UM, and it was a pretty horrific crime.

598
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: She was also twenty one years old, UM and over

599
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: the next almost forty years in prison, she took significant

600
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: steps to change herself into a better person. She earned

601
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: multiple college degrees, She became a mentor to other prisons.

602
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: She developed programs to assist in the rehabilitation UM and

603
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: her programs have like earned her a number of awards

604
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: from different national organizations UM because they helped reduce recidivism

605
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: and help other prisoners to get out and rebuild their lives. UM.

606
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: In short, how dare she you would consider her the

607
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: model of what we would hope for in our prison system.

608
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: You would hope that like this would be the goal, right,

609
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: that somebody who committed a horrible crime when they were

610
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: very young, over the course of thirty nine years in prison,

611
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: UH could change into a multiple degree holder who develops

612
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: programs that help hundreds of other people escape their youthful

613
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: horrors and live lives. Also, to just to interject, we've

614
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: used the word recidivism a couple of times. And just

615
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: in case you don't know, that is the tendency of

616
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: a criminal incarcerated person to reoffend. So she applied for

617
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: clemency in two thousand twelve, um and had a number

618
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: of times because she was an old person and didn't

619
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: want to die in prison. Um in because a hell

620
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: of a lot of people thought that she deserved another

621
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: chance after spending decades proving that she deserved another chance,

622
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: and Andrew Cuomo personally denied her clemency application. Um. Yeah.

623
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: In two thousand nineteen, the New York State legislator legislature

624
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: considered an elder parole measure UH state Bill to one

625
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: four four. This would have allowed incarcerated older people to

626
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: appear before a parole board for a chance at release

627
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: at age fifty five after serving fifty or more years

628
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: in prison. And this was also this was voted down

629
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: by the state legislature. So yeah, Miss Gator died September three,

630
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: two nineteen, So before COVID nineteen hit, she died uh

631
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: in a New York State prison. Um, having never tasted

632
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: free air again. So that's yeah, that's a bummer. Um.

633
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: It's also worth noting that while Cuomo did order the

634
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: release of people who were held up on parole violations,

635
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: and has released a number of of older non violent offenders. UM.

636
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: He's repeatedly insisted that people who are incarcerated on some

637
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: sort of violent crime uh not be released, regardless of

638
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: their age. UM. And he also insisted that state correction

639
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: officers not be allowed to wear masks until April six.

640
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: That was when the state of New York finally allowed

641
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: corrections officers to wear masks on the job, which probably

642
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: contributed to the fact that a number of correction officers

643
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 1: have died in the state of New York. UM so

644
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: blame the sasoning behind that. I I really don't. It's

645
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: very dumb. Um yeah, Like if not like that is

646
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: like it's baffling to me that that would even be

647
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: like yeah. So basically, before April two, there was a

648
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: directive from the Department of Corrections and Community Supervision that

649
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: prohibited employees from wearing masks quote unless medically necessary for

650
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: the job and the area they work in and for

651
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: whatever Yeah, for whatever reason, that didn't apply in a pandemic. Um. Basically,

652
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: there was a lot of quibbling going on about whether

653
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: or not every individual needed to wear a mask for

654
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: their specific point in the job, and like rather than

655
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: just being sane about it and being like, okay, well

656
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, uh, maybe when there's a pandemic, everyone needs

657
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: to wear a mask all the time. And and they

658
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: they quibbled about like who needed to and then fifty

659
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: officer and sergeants got COVID nineteen. Yeah, it's a bummer.

660
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: It is dumb. It just seems like a bureaucratic rule

661
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: that was in place and then get released, like April

662
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: two is real late for that to that to be

663
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: dealt with a lot of guards and a lot of

664
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: prisoners and we'll never know how many prisoners got sick

665
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: as a result of this, um they don't even know.

666
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, and it just it's part of this thing

667
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: like Cuomo has. There's other criticisms that have nothing to

668
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: do with the prison system to make about Cuomo's response

669
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: to COVID nineteen. But it is like really frustrating to

670
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: me that he's getting pointed out as like, you know,

671
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: taking this logical and fact and medicine based approach to

672
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: the virus. And that's true in some places, but it's

673
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: certainly not true of how prisons were handled were treated

674
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: in New York. Of how in New York prisoners and

675
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: guards um they were essentially like allowed to like it

676
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: was allowed to spread almost unchecked. The general public in

677
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: New York State received four time is the number of

678
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: tests per capita compared to inmates in prisons, even though, again,

679
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: as we've discussed inmates as individual people, because of the

680
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: higher rate of illness among them, UM are more likely

681
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable to the coronavirus and because of just

682
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: the way prisons work, it's more likely to spread their

683
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: one fourth the number of testing per capita um, which

684
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: is a very direct way of saying that Andrew Cuomo

685
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: thinks that incarcerated people are less people and thus less

686
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: worthy of having resources spent on them and less worthy

687
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: of their lives being protected than people who are not incarcerated,

688
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: which unfortunately a lot of Americans agree with. And there's

689
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: this nasty thing related to the American puritanical streak um,

690
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 1: which is a big thing in this country, which that

691
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: whereas this like this like revulsion Americans have at the

692
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: idea that a prisoner that we are more revolted by

693
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: the idea that a couple of guilty people might go

694
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: free than the idea of a lot of of of

695
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: basically decent people not continue to be punished. One of

696
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: the things that I think best illustrates the toxicity of

697
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: this kind of like this cruelty streak towards prisoners in

698
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: American culture is the case of Willie Horton. So Willie

699
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: Horton is a convicted and he's still alive today, is

700
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: a convicted American felon who was serving a life sentence

701
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: for murder, a murder he committed in nineteen seventy four.

702
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: He was furloughed under a program that the state of

703
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: Massachusetts stated which allowed like prisoners to be essentially let

704
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: out on the weekends if they met certain conditions, and

705
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: he was furloughed in nineteen eighty six. Uh In in in

706
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties seven, he twice raped a woman after pistol whipping, knifing, binding,

707
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: and gagging her fiance. It was a horrific crime, and

708
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: it was used by the Bush campaign in nineteen eighty

709
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: eight to run against Michael Ducacus, who had been the

710
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: governor of Massachusetts when this program was instituted, and they

711
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: made a big deal about the weekend passes that prisoners

712
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: were being allowed, and the idea was that, see, these

713
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: Democrats tried to take it easy on a prisoner, and

714
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: this woman got raped, and like, that's means that we

715
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: should never we should like it's always a bad idea

716
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: to even consider easing up on any of these people

717
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,959
Speaker 1: and trying to rehabilitate them. And this is behind white

718
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: people like Cuomo and people like Governor Insley of Washington

719
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: why they have all made like such a point of saying,

720
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: no one who is in for any kind of a

721
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: violent offense is going to be considered for release. UM.

722
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: And it's because of the Willie Horton effect. It's because

723
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: that this is like widely considered to be one of

724
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: the things of not the major thing that cost to

725
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: Caucus the eighty at election UM. And one of the

726
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: most infuriating things about the Willy Horton effect is that

727
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: the Massachusetts furlough program existed to help reduce recidivism, and

728
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: by some accounts it had a success rate. UM. This

729
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: was an extremely successful program when it came towards actually

730
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: UM helping to reintegrate prisoners into society UM and allow

731
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: them to rebuild their lives and and exist in the future.

732
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: As a person who does not hurt people. It was

733
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: extremely successful. The program was straighting that one the one

734
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 1: example of it going south is the only thing that

735
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: people focus on instead of the positive impact. Yeah, and

736
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: it's the same thing you see with that rants guy

737
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: I posted earlier, I talked about earlier, where like, um,

738
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, you have this program to release people to

739
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: try and stop them. Are people dying from COVID nineteen

740
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: and immediately right wing commentators are looking for every example

741
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: of a crime committed by one of them. And so

742
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: you've got, you know, a thousand people at least, and

743
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: three of them committed minor fucking crimes. And we're gonna

744
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna hammer this home. And these liberal governors, because

745
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: most of them are pretty fundamentally cowards, are going to

746
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: they respond to that. None of them want to get

747
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: Willie Horton's absolutely, it's just I mean the same thing

748
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: we see we saw for the past few years with dreamers. Yeah,

749
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: and like it's the way, just the way they talk

750
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: like okay, well here's one and they're bad. Therefore, it's

751
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: why the president got away even though like people got pissed.

752
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: That's why he gets away with talking about like the

753
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: animals and stuff like that. Yeah, and it's I mean,

754
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: to be honest, it's the same thing you see with

755
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: like Syrian refugees and in particularly Germany, where like it's

756
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: a big thing on their right to point out like, look,

757
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: you know, this guy was a refugee, he committed a rape.

758
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: This guy was a refugee and he committed rape. And

759
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, they let a million people into the country.

760
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: Some of them are going to be rapists. Yes, when

761
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: you when you take when you take a million, yeah,

762
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,479
Speaker 1: some of them will be rapists, Like especially if it's Hollywood. Uh.

763
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that everyone else should be. Yeah,

764
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: it's it's it's frustrating, but it's also incredibly easy too,

765
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: because you can't argue against it, right, Like if you're

766
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 1: arguing in favor of prison furloughs and the other person

767
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: just has to bring up the case of one furloughed

768
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: prisoner who committed a rape, um, you you can't. There's

769
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: no argument against that. I mean, there is a logical argument,

770
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 1: which is that, Okay, but what about all these thousands

771
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: of people who are now living lives and contributing to

772
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: society and who are back with their family members and

773
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: like what about like like they matter too, but they

774
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: it's not something you can actually win in a rhetorical sense.

775
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: And the biggest bummer about this is that from a

776
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: perspective of actually winning re election and from a perspective

777
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: of actually like maintaining and holding their political power, I

778
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: suspect all of these governors are making the right decision, um,

779
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: which I think is the morally wrong decision, but I

780
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 1: think it will work. Yeah, because Americans fucking hate incarcerated people.

781
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: They really do. Yeah. Yeah. For for hating and crustrated

782
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: people so much, we sure do make a lot of them. Yeah.

783
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: It's all part of a much bigger conversation about prisons

784
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: in general, which I think we should do at some point. Um.

785
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very interested in the prison abolition movement

786
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,959
Speaker 1: versus prison reform, you know, because it's hard to say

787
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: abolish prison when there's you know, so many people that

788
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: are there are a lot of violent offenders or people

789
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: that the general population would not be quick to saying yes,

790
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: let's let them free. It's complicated. But prison in general, Oh,

791
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: if there's just so many there's so many issues that

792
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: I have, and when people do go out how they're

793
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: not get out there not set up for success, they're

794
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: not set up to be reintegrated. We've just got it

795
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: such a gnarled view of freedom and humanity. And like, yeah,

796
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: I'll share another personal story. My my loved one that

797
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: was in San Quentin while they were there, you know,

798
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 1: drug charges and everything. Was was started on antidepressants and

799
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: when he was released, they refused to give him his

800
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: anti represence or even a prescription, and he was released

801
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: without health insurance, without anything. Uh. And you know with

802
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: drug situations, like a lot of that has to do

803
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: with depression and mental illness. And of course it didn't

804
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: take long for him to be back in jail and

805
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: there was no support system. We fought to try to

806
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: get him his medications and then we couldn't get it.

807
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why, because you're one of

808
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: the point you're making that's really good, Katie, is that

809
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 1: when these people get out, they don't get out. They're

810
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: not released with the things they need to take care

811
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: of themselves or with an ability to take care of themselves,

812
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: and that that increases recidivism. Like that guy who's winds

813
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: up shoplifting from a Fred Meyer um, because he just

814
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: got out of jail during a pandemic and he can't

815
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: get a job and he needs food. Um. And then

816
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: he becomes fuel for the right wing gristmill and it's

817
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: the same. Like. Part of the reason the furlough program

818
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: was so successful is that by letting these people out

819
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: on the weekends, they were able to maintain relationships with

820
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: family and friends. And one of the number one factors

821
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: that determines whether or not a criminal will after being

822
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: released from from prison, will commit more crimes is whether

823
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: or not they have a support network. Um. It's it's

824
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: also be released into the same community that you, uh,

825
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: that are that you were in prior to being incarcerated.

826
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: So if you are a drug addict and you're released

827
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: into the same environment that you were before and you

828
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: don't have that support system, uh, what support system do

829
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: you have? You have the people that you knew, and

830
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: it's a real easy path back. But yes, having that

831
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: furlough program, I imagine yet you can strengthen bonds, reconnect

832
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: with with family members. You can also start to test

833
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 1: the waters of being back in public uh and and

834
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: figuring out what your boundaries are or how it feels

835
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 1: to be out there. Do you know what I mean.

836
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: It's it's a gradual reintroduction. Yeah, it's jarring to it's

837
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: a different world. And yeah, on theme with our title

838
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: of the show and itself, we are ending this episode

839
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: on a collective side. No, actually we're not. I have

840
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: something to say. As Cody mentioned earlier in the episode,

841
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: later this week, we will be releasing an interview we

842
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: did with some organizers in Michigan who have been fighting

843
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: this issue. Yeah. The group is no Detention Centers in Michigan. UM.

844
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: And they're specifically protesting against the opening of a private

845
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: for profit or of the Sorry, they're organizing against a

846
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: recently opened private for profit immigration prison in Baldwin, Michigan,

847
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: owned and operated by the GEO Group. Um, the Geo Group.

848
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, they're they're and these are these are immigrant

849
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: detention centers for like, for non US citizens who have

850
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: committed crimes. Um. And they're they're, as you can imagine,

851
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: pretty brutal places. Um. Yeah, absolutely them later this week,

852
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: and and they've been experiencing you know, we we all

853
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: heard those stories. I think maybe maybe not. Who can

854
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: assume what people have seen in all of this chaos? Uh,

855
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people in ice detention facilities

856
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: have been uprooted and sent across this country to other facilities,

857
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: and and there's a lot of stuff happening there. But

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00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: I say this to also mentioned that one the point

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00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: that they made and I'd like to make now is

860
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 1: that you can find local groups that are organizing, uh

861
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: to to fight this. And I encourage you to do that,

862
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: to look up the prisons near you, in your your

863
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 1: county and and see what efforts are being done, because

864
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: that would be a good way to channel your frustration

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00:52:52,600 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: right now. Positive note achieved spectacular. Guys can and check

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00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: us out online at Worst Year Pod, on Twitter and

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00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: on Instagram, and you could follow us all as well.

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00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have those handles. Google our names and

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00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: the word Twitter, you'll find us. And I guess that

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00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: does it for us. Today. We're gonna go have better Mondays,

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00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: I think, and I hope you guys do as well.

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00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: Except it will probably be Wednesday. Have a better Wednesday,

873
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: have a good whatever day, everything everything, so it's not again.

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00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: Worst Year Ever is a production of I Heart Radio.

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00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i

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00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to

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00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,