WEBVTT - Rep Ro Khanna on Fossil Fuel Subsidies 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:18.600 A drilled listeners, Happy Earth Day, and bringing you a 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:23.079 little preview of a hearing that's happening in Congress today. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:27.440 The focus of that hearing is fossil fuel subsidies, what 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.520 they are, why we have them, how they block climate action, 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.840 and what can be done to get rid of them. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.839 This should be interesting because for years the industry has 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:43.560 claimed that it doesn't actually get any subsidies. So I'm 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:48.360 not quite sure how they're going to argue against getting 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.680 rid of a thing they claim they don't have. But 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:56.440 I'm sure we'll see how that plays out. I have 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:57.280 with me today. 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:58.200 Rep. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.000 Ro Kanna, you represent Silicon Valley in Congress, and has 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:08.600 called this hearing. He's the chairman of the House Committee 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:14.400 on Oversight and Reforms Subcommittee on the Environment. The title 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.880 of this hearing, which is the first one being held 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:22.000 in Congress today Earth Day, is titled the Role of 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.319 fossil fuel Subsidies in Preventing action on the Climate Crisis. 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.080 You might remember this being a big topic of conversation 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.559 during the election. People were shocked that Joe Biden would 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.640 suggest such a thing, and it does sound kind of shocking, 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.520 but it also seems like a pretty obvious first step 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:48.320 to doing anything on climate. According to Conna, under President Trump, 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:53.200 the fossil fuel industry received between ten point four billion 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.800 dollars and fifteen point two billion dollars of direct pandemic 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.480 relief funds. I'll stick a link to the hearing in 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.560 the show notes. Highly recommend you tune in to that 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.640 this morning. And in the meantime, here is a little 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:21.440 bit of a sneak peek with Rep. Row Conna. 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.280 I'm ro Conna. I represent Silicon Valley in the United 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:29.640 States Congress. I'm the chair of the Environment Subcommittee for 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:34.480 the Oversight Committee, and on Earthday, we are having a 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:39.880 hearing focused on ending fossil fuel subsidies as part of 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.960 the infrastructure built. President Biden, as you know, ran on 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:49.000 eliminating all fossil fuel subsidies, and to his credit, his proposal, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:54.560 the Infrastructure Plan has the elimination of those fossil fuel subsidies. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.119 So the hearing will drill down in exactly what does 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.239 that mean, making sure that we're comprehensive in getting rid 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:09.320 of these subsidies, and we want to insist that this 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.240 is going to be part of infrastructure, that it's not 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.040 taken out by a Senator got it. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.680 Can you explain what some of these specific subsidies are 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.399 because I know the American Petroleum Institut likes to say 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.200 the fossil fuel industry doesn't have any subsidies, so they 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:28.200 should be fine with this. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:36.960 Well, they have a lot of subsidies. There are subsidies 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:46.360 for tax preferences that allow industries to drill, that allow 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:53.800 them to deduct for drilling costs. There is accounting basically 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.360 it's a last in and first out accounting for fossil 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:01.320 fuel companies that allow them to manipulate and take advantage. 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:09.040 There's a cost of depletion which they have used. There 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:14.960 are offshore drilling leases that they can deduct the use 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.599 of loss of royalties for So I know some of 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:23.520 this is technical, but when you look through the code, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.240 there are a number of these provisions. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:32.360 Who is going to be speaking at the hearing? What's 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:33.080 the plan for that? 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.880 So we have Greta Thunberg, which we're very excited about, 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:42.160 and that we have a number of other experts who 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.480 have really looked at what the fossil fuel subsidies are 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.480 and what needs to be eliminated. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.160 Is there any thinking around, you know, the fact that 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.760 this getting rid of fossil fuel subsidies could have a 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:01.440 follow on a fact in terms of how investible fossil 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.000 fuel projects are forks. 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.800 Yes, no, absolutely. I mean here you have the government's 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.279 actually lagging. I mean you have the financial industry saying 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.160 carbon is a risk and we ought to be getting 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.520 out of carbon, even you know Blackrock with Larry Fink 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.040 and even some of the Exon even the new Exon 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.880 CEO is talking about how they need to diversify and 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.960 get out of some of the high carbon areas. And 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.599 so that at the time where you have the private 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.200 sector finally having one of these moments, you still have 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:38.599 the government putting our thumb on the scale favoring the 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.240 fossil fuel industry. It makes no sense. And so what 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.719 we're saying is, if you're not going to do the 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:44.720 trillions of dollars the. 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.279 Favor renewable energy, which we should, but if you're gonna 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.279 if you're going to do one thing, at least stop 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.279 putting your hand on the scale on the side of 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:55.120 fossil fuels. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:59.840 At least create a level playing field, right right? Is there? What? 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.960 But has kind of the industry response been to this 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.760 I know this call is not new, it's been it's 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:07.720 been around for a while. 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.760 But what are they kind of saying now about about 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:12.680 this push? 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.240 The call is not new. I mean they have the 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.600 same arguments that it's going to hurt jobs, that it's 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.159 going to hurt business. What is new is that the 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.839 President of the United States is putting it in their plan. 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.720 And what is new is that we have a House 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.599 of Representatives committed to passing it. That would be historic, 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.320 and I think this may be one of the first 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:38.080 hearings and comprehensively ending fossil fuel subsidies. But we will 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.000 take on some of these myths about why this is 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:45.200 not going to lessen jobs, if anything, is going to 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.040 incentivize the creation of a lot more jobs in by 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:53.120 the way, the very areas where ch have fossil fuel industry, 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.160 there is there are more jobs to be had in 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.920 making those areas environment only sustainable than there are in 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.479 the current jobs created by these subsidies. 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.320 You know, one thing I always hear about this is 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.160 concerned that the price of gas will go up. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.600 How do you kind of answer that that worry? 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.360 That is the biggest worry in polling suggests that too 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.880 more than jobs, more than anything. As people's concerned about 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.160 the price of gas, and our view is that the 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:33.600 studies show that this isn't going to have that impact, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:38.440 that the subsidies aren't large enough to have that impact 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.360 on the price of gas. And to the extent that 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.320 there is some increase, I think we ought to be 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:50.520 providing a worker tax credit or some credit to mitigate that, 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.680 and so there are ways to do it without raising 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:55.720 the price of gas. 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.800 Yeah, I always think about like when I think about that, 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.560 that you know, there have been in the past where well, 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.720 I don't know, I feel like there have been many 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.600 times in the past where the industry will sort of 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.600 artificially to press the price of gas themselves if they 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.680 want to spur demand. So it makes me laugh a 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:15.160 little bit when they bring that one up. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:17.720 That's a great point. That's a great point. 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:19.800 Anything else that people should know about this? 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.920 What can kind of the general public do if they 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:23.800 want to learn more? 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.280 Well, we have eighteen environmental groups around the country mobilizing 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.200 behind this, So this is a big deal for the 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.720 environmental movement. I believe it's the highest priority in the 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:40.000 infrastructure bill, which is saying stop helping fossil fuels become 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.920 a bigger presence and the people listening and tuning in one. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.000 They can tune into the hearings, share what the experts 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.560 are saying, Share share what Greta Thunberg is saying. Two, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.840 they can insist that the end of fossil fuel subsidies 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.520 has to be part of modern infrastructure, that that is 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:00.760 a non negotiable. 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.080 Okay, well, thank you very much for talking with me. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:05.920 Thank you. 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.960 Drilled is a Critical Frequency production. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:28.400 The show is produced and reported by me Amy westerveldt 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.000 Our first Amendment attorney is James Wheaton. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.720 We appreciate the support of all of our listener members 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:40.280 on Patreon. Your contributions are helping us to do work 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:40.719 like this. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.920 You can find that link to support our work in 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.280 the show notes. Patrons also get access to add free 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.079 episodes and early releases of episodes. 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.200 Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.