Speaker 1: A drilled listeners, Happy Earth Day, and bringing you a
Speaker 1: little preview of a hearing that's happening in Congress today.
Speaker 1: The focus of that hearing is fossil fuel subsidies, what
Speaker 1: they are, why we have them, how they block climate action,
Speaker 1: and what can be done to get rid of them.
Speaker 1: This should be interesting because for years the industry has
Speaker 1: claimed that it doesn't actually get any subsidies. So I'm
Speaker 1: not quite sure how they're going to argue against getting
Speaker 1: rid of a thing they claim they don't have. But
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll see how that plays out. I have
Speaker 1: with me today.
Speaker 2: Rep.
Speaker 1: Ro Kanna, you represent Silicon Valley in Congress, and has
Speaker 1: called this hearing. He's the chairman of the House Committee
Speaker 1: on Oversight and Reforms Subcommittee on the Environment. The title
Speaker 1: of this hearing, which is the first one being held
Speaker 1: in Congress today Earth Day, is titled the Role of
Speaker 1: fossil fuel Subsidies in Preventing action on the Climate Crisis.
Speaker 1: You might remember this being a big topic of conversation
Speaker 1: during the election. People were shocked that Joe Biden would
Speaker 1: suggest such a thing, and it does sound kind of shocking,
Speaker 1: but it also seems like a pretty obvious first step
Speaker 1: to doing anything on climate. According to Conna, under President Trump,
Speaker 1: the fossil fuel industry received between ten point four billion
Speaker 1: dollars and fifteen point two billion dollars of direct pandemic
Speaker 1: relief funds. I'll stick a link to the hearing in
Speaker 1: the show notes. Highly recommend you tune in to that
Speaker 1: this morning. And in the meantime, here is a little
Speaker 1: bit of a sneak peek with Rep. Row Conna.
Speaker 3: I'm ro Conna. I represent Silicon Valley in the United
Speaker 3: States Congress. I'm the chair of the Environment Subcommittee for
Speaker 3: the Oversight Committee, and on Earthday, we are having a
Speaker 3: hearing focused on ending fossil fuel subsidies as part of
Speaker 3: the infrastructure built. President Biden, as you know, ran on
Speaker 3: eliminating all fossil fuel subsidies, and to his credit, his proposal,
Speaker 3: the Infrastructure Plan has the elimination of those fossil fuel subsidies.
Speaker 3: So the hearing will drill down in exactly what does
Speaker 3: that mean, making sure that we're comprehensive in getting rid
Speaker 3: of these subsidies, and we want to insist that this
Speaker 3: is going to be part of infrastructure, that it's not
Speaker 3: taken out by a Senator got it.
Speaker 4: Can you explain what some of these specific subsidies are
Speaker 4: because I know the American Petroleum Institut likes to say
Speaker 4: the fossil fuel industry doesn't have any subsidies, so they
Speaker 4: should be fine with this.
Speaker 3: Well, they have a lot of subsidies. There are subsidies
Speaker 3: for tax preferences that allow industries to drill, that allow
Speaker 3: them to deduct for drilling costs. There is accounting basically
Speaker 3: it's a last in and first out accounting for fossil
Speaker 3: fuel companies that allow them to manipulate and take advantage.
Speaker 3: There's a cost of depletion which they have used. There
Speaker 3: are offshore drilling leases that they can deduct the use
Speaker 3: of loss of royalties for So I know some of
Speaker 3: this is technical, but when you look through the code,
Speaker 3: there are a number of these provisions.
Speaker 2: Who is going to be speaking at the hearing? What's
Speaker 2: the plan for that?
Speaker 3: So we have Greta Thunberg, which we're very excited about,
Speaker 3: and that we have a number of other experts who
Speaker 3: have really looked at what the fossil fuel subsidies are
Speaker 3: and what needs to be eliminated.
Speaker 4: Is there any thinking around, you know, the fact that
Speaker 4: this getting rid of fossil fuel subsidies could have a
Speaker 4: follow on a fact in terms of how investible fossil
Speaker 4: fuel projects are forks.
Speaker 3: Yes, no, absolutely. I mean here you have the government's
Speaker 3: actually lagging. I mean you have the financial industry saying
Speaker 3: carbon is a risk and we ought to be getting
Speaker 3: out of carbon, even you know Blackrock with Larry Fink
Speaker 3: and even some of the Exon even the new Exon
Speaker 3: CEO is talking about how they need to diversify and
Speaker 3: get out of some of the high carbon areas. And
Speaker 3: so that at the time where you have the private
Speaker 3: sector finally having one of these moments, you still have
Speaker 3: the government putting our thumb on the scale favoring the
Speaker 3: fossil fuel industry. It makes no sense. And so what
Speaker 3: we're saying is, if you're not going to do the
Speaker 3: trillions of dollars the.
Speaker 5: Favor renewable energy, which we should, but if you're gonna
Speaker 5: if you're going to do one thing, at least stop
Speaker 5: putting your hand on the scale on the side of
Speaker 5: fossil fuels.
Speaker 3: At least create a level playing field, right right? Is there? What?
Speaker 4: But has kind of the industry response been to this
Speaker 4: I know this call is not new, it's been it's
Speaker 4: been around for a while.
Speaker 2: But what are they kind of saying now about about
Speaker 2: this push?
Speaker 3: The call is not new. I mean they have the
Speaker 3: same arguments that it's going to hurt jobs, that it's
Speaker 3: going to hurt business. What is new is that the
Speaker 3: President of the United States is putting it in their plan.
Speaker 3: And what is new is that we have a House
Speaker 3: of Representatives committed to passing it. That would be historic,
Speaker 3: and I think this may be one of the first
Speaker 3: hearings and comprehensively ending fossil fuel subsidies. But we will
Speaker 3: take on some of these myths about why this is
Speaker 3: not going to lessen jobs, if anything, is going to
Speaker 3: incentivize the creation of a lot more jobs in by
Speaker 3: the way, the very areas where ch have fossil fuel industry,
Speaker 3: there is there are more jobs to be had in
Speaker 3: making those areas environment only sustainable than there are in
Speaker 3: the current jobs created by these subsidies.
Speaker 4: You know, one thing I always hear about this is
Speaker 4: concerned that the price of gas will go up.
Speaker 2: How do you kind of answer that that worry?
Speaker 3: That is the biggest worry in polling suggests that too
Speaker 3: more than jobs, more than anything. As people's concerned about
Speaker 3: the price of gas, and our view is that the
Speaker 3: studies show that this isn't going to have that impact,
Speaker 3: that the subsidies aren't large enough to have that impact
Speaker 3: on the price of gas. And to the extent that
Speaker 3: there is some increase, I think we ought to be
Speaker 3: providing a worker tax credit or some credit to mitigate that,
Speaker 3: and so there are ways to do it without raising
Speaker 3: the price of gas.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I always think about like when I think about that,
Speaker 4: that you know, there have been in the past where well,
Speaker 4: I don't know, I feel like there have been many
Speaker 4: times in the past where the industry will sort of
Speaker 4: artificially to press the price of gas themselves if they
Speaker 4: want to spur demand. So it makes me laugh a
Speaker 4: little bit when they bring that one up.
Speaker 3: That's a great point. That's a great point.
Speaker 2: Anything else that people should know about this?
Speaker 4: What can kind of the general public do if they
Speaker 4: want to learn more?
Speaker 3: Well, we have eighteen environmental groups around the country mobilizing
Speaker 3: behind this, So this is a big deal for the
Speaker 3: environmental movement. I believe it's the highest priority in the
Speaker 3: infrastructure bill, which is saying stop helping fossil fuels become
Speaker 3: a bigger presence and the people listening and tuning in one.
Speaker 3: They can tune into the hearings, share what the experts
Speaker 3: are saying, Share share what Greta Thunberg is saying. Two,
Speaker 3: they can insist that the end of fossil fuel subsidies
Speaker 3: has to be part of modern infrastructure, that that is
Speaker 3: a non negotiable.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, thank you very much for talking with me.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
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Speaker 4: The show is produced and reported by me Amy westerveldt
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