1 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: A drilled listeners, Happy Earth Day, and bringing you a 2 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: little preview of a hearing that's happening in Congress today. 3 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: The focus of that hearing is fossil fuel subsidies, what 4 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: they are, why we have them, how they block climate action, 5 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: and what can be done to get rid of them. 6 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: This should be interesting because for years the industry has 7 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: claimed that it doesn't actually get any subsidies. So I'm 8 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: not quite sure how they're going to argue against getting 9 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: rid of a thing they claim they don't have. But 10 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll see how that plays out. I have 11 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: with me today. 12 00:00:57,960 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: Rep. 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: Ro Kanna, you represent Silicon Valley in Congress, and has 14 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: called this hearing. He's the chairman of the House Committee 15 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: on Oversight and Reforms Subcommittee on the Environment. The title 16 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: of this hearing, which is the first one being held 17 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: in Congress today Earth Day, is titled the Role of 18 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: fossil fuel Subsidies in Preventing action on the Climate Crisis. 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: You might remember this being a big topic of conversation 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: during the election. People were shocked that Joe Biden would 21 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: suggest such a thing, and it does sound kind of shocking, 22 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: but it also seems like a pretty obvious first step 23 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: to doing anything on climate. According to Conna, under President Trump, 24 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: the fossil fuel industry received between ten point four billion 25 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: dollars and fifteen point two billion dollars of direct pandemic 26 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: relief funds. I'll stick a link to the hearing in 27 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: the show notes. Highly recommend you tune in to that 28 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: this morning. And in the meantime, here is a little 29 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: bit of a sneak peek with Rep. Row Conna. 30 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 3: I'm ro Conna. I represent Silicon Valley in the United 31 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 3: States Congress. I'm the chair of the Environment Subcommittee for 32 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: the Oversight Committee, and on Earthday, we are having a 33 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 3: hearing focused on ending fossil fuel subsidies as part of 34 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: the infrastructure built. President Biden, as you know, ran on 35 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 3: eliminating all fossil fuel subsidies, and to his credit, his proposal, 36 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 3: the Infrastructure Plan has the elimination of those fossil fuel subsidies. 37 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 3: So the hearing will drill down in exactly what does 38 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 3: that mean, making sure that we're comprehensive in getting rid 39 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: of these subsidies, and we want to insist that this 40 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 3: is going to be part of infrastructure, that it's not 41 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: taken out by a Senator got it. 42 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 4: Can you explain what some of these specific subsidies are 43 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 4: because I know the American Petroleum Institut likes to say 44 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 4: the fossil fuel industry doesn't have any subsidies, so they 45 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 4: should be fine with this. 46 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 3: Well, they have a lot of subsidies. There are subsidies 47 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: for tax preferences that allow industries to drill, that allow 48 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 3: them to deduct for drilling costs. There is accounting basically 49 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 3: it's a last in and first out accounting for fossil 50 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: fuel companies that allow them to manipulate and take advantage. 51 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: There's a cost of depletion which they have used. There 52 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 3: are offshore drilling leases that they can deduct the use 53 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 3: of loss of royalties for So I know some of 54 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 3: this is technical, but when you look through the code, 55 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 3: there are a number of these provisions. 56 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: Who is going to be speaking at the hearing? What's 57 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: the plan for that? 58 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 3: So we have Greta Thunberg, which we're very excited about, 59 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 3: and that we have a number of other experts who 60 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 3: have really looked at what the fossil fuel subsidies are 61 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 3: and what needs to be eliminated. 62 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 4: Is there any thinking around, you know, the fact that 63 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 4: this getting rid of fossil fuel subsidies could have a 64 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 4: follow on a fact in terms of how investible fossil 65 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 4: fuel projects are forks. 66 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: Yes, no, absolutely. I mean here you have the government's 67 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 3: actually lagging. I mean you have the financial industry saying 68 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 3: carbon is a risk and we ought to be getting 69 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: out of carbon, even you know Blackrock with Larry Fink 70 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 3: and even some of the Exon even the new Exon 71 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 3: CEO is talking about how they need to diversify and 72 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: get out of some of the high carbon areas. And 73 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 3: so that at the time where you have the private 74 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: sector finally having one of these moments, you still have 75 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 3: the government putting our thumb on the scale favoring the 76 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: fossil fuel industry. It makes no sense. And so what 77 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 3: we're saying is, if you're not going to do the 78 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 3: trillions of dollars the. 79 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 5: Favor renewable energy, which we should, but if you're gonna 80 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 5: if you're going to do one thing, at least stop 81 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 5: putting your hand on the scale on the side of 82 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 5: fossil fuels. 83 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 3: At least create a level playing field, right right? Is there? What? 84 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 4: But has kind of the industry response been to this 85 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 4: I know this call is not new, it's been it's 86 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 4: been around for a while. 87 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: But what are they kind of saying now about about 88 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: this push? 89 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: The call is not new. I mean they have the 90 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 3: same arguments that it's going to hurt jobs, that it's 91 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 3: going to hurt business. What is new is that the 92 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 3: President of the United States is putting it in their plan. 93 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 3: And what is new is that we have a House 94 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 3: of Representatives committed to passing it. That would be historic, 95 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 3: and I think this may be one of the first 96 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: hearings and comprehensively ending fossil fuel subsidies. But we will 97 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: take on some of these myths about why this is 98 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: not going to lessen jobs, if anything, is going to 99 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 3: incentivize the creation of a lot more jobs in by 100 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: the way, the very areas where ch have fossil fuel industry, 101 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 3: there is there are more jobs to be had in 102 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 3: making those areas environment only sustainable than there are in 103 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 3: the current jobs created by these subsidies. 104 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 4: You know, one thing I always hear about this is 105 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 4: concerned that the price of gas will go up. 106 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: How do you kind of answer that that worry? 107 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: That is the biggest worry in polling suggests that too 108 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: more than jobs, more than anything. As people's concerned about 109 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 3: the price of gas, and our view is that the 110 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: studies show that this isn't going to have that impact, 111 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 3: that the subsidies aren't large enough to have that impact 112 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: on the price of gas. And to the extent that 113 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 3: there is some increase, I think we ought to be 114 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: providing a worker tax credit or some credit to mitigate that, 115 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: and so there are ways to do it without raising 116 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 3: the price of gas. 117 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I always think about like when I think about that, 118 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 4: that you know, there have been in the past where well, 119 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 4: I don't know, I feel like there have been many 120 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 4: times in the past where the industry will sort of 121 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 4: artificially to press the price of gas themselves if they 122 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 4: want to spur demand. So it makes me laugh a 123 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 4: little bit when they bring that one up. 124 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: That's a great point. That's a great point. 125 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: Anything else that people should know about this? 126 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 4: What can kind of the general public do if they 127 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 4: want to learn more? 128 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: Well, we have eighteen environmental groups around the country mobilizing 129 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: behind this, So this is a big deal for the 130 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 3: environmental movement. I believe it's the highest priority in the 131 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 3: infrastructure bill, which is saying stop helping fossil fuels become 132 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 3: a bigger presence and the people listening and tuning in one. 133 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: They can tune into the hearings, share what the experts 134 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 3: are saying, Share share what Greta Thunberg is saying. Two, 135 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 3: they can insist that the end of fossil fuel subsidies 136 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 3: has to be part of modern infrastructure, that that is 137 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: a non negotiable. 138 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 2: Okay, well, thank you very much for talking with me. 139 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: Thank you. 140 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: Drilled is a Critical Frequency production. 141 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 4: The show is produced and reported by me Amy westerveldt 142 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 4: Our first Amendment attorney is James Wheaton. 143 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: We appreciate the support of all of our listener members 144 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: on Patreon. Your contributions are helping us to do work 145 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: like this. 146 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 4: You can find that link to support our work in 147 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 4: the show notes. Patrons also get access to add free 148 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 4: episodes and early releases of episodes. 149 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.