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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump is now selling pieces

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Speaker 1: of the suit he wore during his mugshot to people

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Speaker 1: who buy his digital trading cards.

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Speaker 2: We have one hell of a show today.

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Speaker 1: Senator Shared Brown stops by to talk about his re

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Speaker 1: election campaign in the Great State of Ohio. Then we'll

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Speaker 1: talk to Democratic strategist Jim Messina about how Biden can

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Speaker 1: win in twenty twenty four. But first we have the

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Speaker 1: host of the Time of Monsters, the Nation's Jed here.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 3: Jeed here, good to be on the program.

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Speaker 1: You sound very like normal and sane, and I sound

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Speaker 1: very wild, but that's because you're in Canada, where life

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Speaker 1: is still normal insane, and I am in America, where

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Speaker 1: everything is crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think in Canada, even if you're like Hi,

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Speaker 3: on cocaine, you tend to be calm and.

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Speaker 1: You're also so if you're high in cocaine, you're usually

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Speaker 1: what's that politician Doug.

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Speaker 3: Well, Doug Ford, Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well there's his brother Rob part He is the de

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Speaker 3: mayor of Toronto. Famous scene in a crack video, but

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Speaker 3: still much calmer than Donald Trump. So it was ross crack.

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Speaker 1: So first, we're going to talk about a little bit

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Speaker 1: of Canada content here, because I know that's what the

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Speaker 1: listeners long for. I read something about Justin Trudeau that

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Speaker 1: he is and his party again because I don't know

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Speaker 1: this sort of local Canadian political landscape, but that Trump

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Speaker 1: is such a toxic brand that actually in Canada, Justin

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Speaker 1: Trudeau can run against him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that's going to happen. The Liberals,

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Speaker 3: which is Justin Trudeau's party, are really lagging in the polls.

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Speaker 3: They're suffering some of the same problems I think that

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Speaker 3: all incumbent parties are having, including the Democrats where they're

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Speaker 3: associated with the hangover from COVID. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 3: that the Adian Conservative Party has radicalized in recent years.

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Speaker 3: The head of the party of Paulvier, is a Trump

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Speaker 3: like figure in some ways, and I think is very

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Speaker 3: vulnerable on that front. And as an example, I think

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Speaker 3: it's very interesting the Canadian Conservatives have turned against Ukraine

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Speaker 3: and are voting against this feet trade deal that Canada's

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Speaker 3: negotiating with Ukraine. They took me by surprise because Canada

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Speaker 3: has a lot of Ukrainians. We took a lot of

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Speaker 3: Ukrainians in both before the Second World War and afterwards.

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Speaker 3: It has i think the largest population of Ukrainians outside

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Speaker 3: of Ukraine. Yeah, Traditionally a lot of there have been conservatives,

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Speaker 3: and so for them to turn against Ukraine in the

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Speaker 3: context of, you know, a country that has a lot

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Speaker 3: of Ukrainian immigrants, it's really something I think fits in

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Speaker 3: with this larger pattern of trump Ism.

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Speaker 2: So interesting. Will you say a little more about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's generally the case that all the sort of

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Speaker 3: right wing populist parties in Europe and the United States

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Speaker 3: and Canada. The cynical way to put it is that

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Speaker 3: they're taking the put In line. I think the more

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Speaker 3: neutral ways that they tend to be the isolationists about Europe.

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Speaker 3: They tend to think like, you know, if white people

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Speaker 3: are fighting white people, you know, we don't have a

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Speaker 3: dog in that fight. Yeah. So the Canadian conservatives are

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Speaker 3: becoming very isolationist about Ukraine, you know, and using the

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Speaker 3: arguments that I think you hear from the GOP as well,

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Speaker 3: like this is a waste of money.

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Speaker 2: And besides, what is fascism It'll be fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that's an interesting development. And I

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Speaker 3: think Canada is a big supporter of Ukraine, and that's

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Speaker 3: just one issue of many. But I do think that

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Speaker 3: the Canadian Conservative Party has gone on this sort of

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Speaker 3: populist event, which is where grantable. I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: Canada tradition has had one of the most centrist of

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Speaker 3: conservative parties. They used that to used to be called

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Speaker 3: the Progressive Conservative Party. If you can flee love, So

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Speaker 3: that's all a thing of the past.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting. So I want you to talk a

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Speaker 1: little more about this idea you just brushed by, But

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Speaker 1: is I think really important post COVID hangover.

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Speaker 3: I think one thing that we're seeing in all the

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Speaker 3: sort of democracies is that incumbent parties send to be

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Speaker 3: in trouble. And I think a lot of that is

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Speaker 3: not just about specific policies, but the fact that they

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Speaker 3: you know, like after COVID, you know, when we're thinking

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Speaker 3: that everyone is happy, but there's actually a lot of

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Speaker 3: side effects that happen with inflation, but also, like I

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Speaker 3: think even more broadly, the sort of degradation of social life,

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Speaker 3: like here in Canada. Our healthcare system, which many Americans admire,

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Speaker 3: which used to be quite good, it's sort of fraying.

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Speaker 3: A lot of doctors and nurses have left dead. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot more people that are sick because of long

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Speaker 3: COVID and so like everything is getting worse, and you know,

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Speaker 3: more broadly, like just like driving, like like you know,

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Speaker 3: there's just a lot more people that are driving very aggressively,

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Speaker 3: or there's a lot of ways in which like social

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Speaker 3: life has changed and people are just angrier and more

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Speaker 3: willing to give vent to their anger. And unfortunately, I

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Speaker 3: think that hurts incumbent parties and it helps a particular

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Speaker 3: type of right wing populace, which your listeners will know

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Speaker 3: in the form of Trump, but you know exists in

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Speaker 3: many democracies. You know, there's a lot of anger out there,

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Speaker 3: and if someone is willing to, you know, be the

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Speaker 3: voice of that anger, they can go hard.

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Speaker 1: We talk about this populous rage. This is what brought

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Speaker 1: Trump into power. That's really scary and it speaks to

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Speaker 1: a certain Americans feeling.

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Speaker 2: And Canadians and in other countries. We have Georgia Maloney,

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Speaker 2: we have in Italy there's a pen you know, she's

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Speaker 2: not elected, but she could be with the poles.

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Speaker 1: These polls may not be accurate, but they reflect a

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Speaker 1: kind of anger because people get on the phone and say, like, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't like it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: No, I think that's exactly right, and I mean it's

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Speaker 3: interesting to think about. Like, I mean, one thing to

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Speaker 3: keep in mind is that a lot of the polling

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Speaker 3: is because Democrats who will eventually vote for Biden are

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Speaker 3: disaffected with him, you know, share the anger, so they're

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Speaker 3: just say they're not going to vote for him, like

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Speaker 3: everything's going to tighten up. But I mean it's still

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Speaker 3: terrifying that it's going to be a close election, and

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Speaker 3: you know, it's like Trump is all the valid I

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Speaker 3: think that the anger comes from I think people's sense

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Speaker 3: of a fraying society. And there's a kind of paradox,

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Speaker 3: like the economy is actually doing quite well in the

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Speaker 3: United States. It's actually better than in Canada and better

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Speaker 3: than in Europe. Like if you just look at the

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Speaker 3: raw numbers, some Democrats who are kind of arguing, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is just like media bias is making

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Speaker 3: people think the economy is bad and it's not right.

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Speaker 2: I think it's an oversimplification, right, Yeah, it's an oversimplification

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Speaker 2: of the fact that people are, like, there are genuine

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Speaker 2: things for people to be unhappy about.

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Speaker 3: Still, like life expectancy is going down in the United States.

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Speaker 3: I believe the number of uninsured is going up, but

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Speaker 3: also like just generally social life as I think changed

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Speaker 3: and altern in a way that makes people angry and alienated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I also think that when you were talking about this

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Speaker 1: life expectancy, because we just had a really interesting episode

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Speaker 1: and worth looking up. I think one of the most

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Speaker 1: interesting interviews I've ever done with John Byrne martin Financial Times. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he walked us through how in every age in America

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Speaker 1: you are more likely to die and your several multiples

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Speaker 1: more likely to die. But one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I thought was very interesting about this was I wonder

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Speaker 1: how much all of this, you know, this is a

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Speaker 1: post COVID rage, this like you know, fury about how

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Speaker 1: things are not getting better or they're not getting better

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Speaker 1: as fast, but that there's a sense that even the

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Speaker 1: threat of voting for Trump, because you know what he's

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Speaker 1: capable of, is a subversive act.

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Speaker 2: Can you discuss.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean I think that's the unfortunate thing,

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Speaker 3: which is and I think it's the basis of Trump's power,

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Speaker 3: both in twenty sixteen when he was like harnessing a

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Speaker 3: lot of the rage from the fact that the recovery

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Speaker 3: from the Great Recession hadn't happened fast enough and some

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Speaker 3: of the social problems that we're seeing we're already developing,

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Speaker 3: and now, which is that he really is the FU candidate, Right,

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Speaker 3: if you're mad at the way the world is, this

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Speaker 3: is you'll stick it to the man. And a lot

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Speaker 3: of people use Trump for that way, like like not

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Speaker 3: that they necessarily agree with him or even think he

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Speaker 3: has a solution, and they really want to show the

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Speaker 3: powers of b that be, like how mad they are.

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Speaker 3: And so he has the advantage of, you know, he's

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Speaker 3: the anti system politic politician. And I think that Democrats

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Speaker 3: sometimes are a little bit flat footed in opposing this

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Speaker 3: because they try to play up certain things in Trump

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Speaker 3: that actually worked for his advantage, because they highlight his

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Speaker 3: anti system nature. Like I think there's a limited amount

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Speaker 3: you can do with some of his criminal activities, although

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Speaker 3: I certainly believe the law should go after him, But

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Speaker 3: if you make that the main political argument, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of people think, yeah, this guy's a crook, but

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Speaker 3: that shows he's for real, right, he's our kruok, he's

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Speaker 3: our crook, right, Yeah, and he doesn't he's not owned

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Speaker 3: by the system in the way the honest person would be.

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Speaker 3: More broadly, I don't think you could run on America

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Speaker 3: is already great. The slogan which was used like by

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Speaker 3: Obama and the Hill in twenty sixteen. In Canada, we

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Speaker 3: see an interesting variation of this because the Conservatives, you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the slogans that they have now is Canada

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Speaker 3: is broken. Unfortunately, Christia Friedland, who's the Deputy Prime Minister,

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Speaker 3: came out with you know, tweet saying, you know, Canada

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Speaker 3: has never been broken, right, And I think that if

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Speaker 3: you know, if you have people that are struggling to

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Speaker 3: buy housing, see growth fees that are more expensive, you know,

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Speaker 3: to say Canada has never been broken, you know, it

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Speaker 3: sounds complacent and it sounds like you don't want to

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Speaker 3: do anything, right. I think that that's the big problem.

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Speaker 3: Like I think you have to like feel people's pain,

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Speaker 3: as Bill Clinton says, you have to offer people out

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Speaker 3: of an awareness that I know, things are like, you know,

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Speaker 3: not where they want to be and here's what I'm

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Speaker 3: going to do, and I'll fight for you.

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. And I also think that you

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Speaker 1: cannot tell people that their reality is wrong.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that will just make them furious.

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Speaker 3: They are unfortunately, like a whole school of Democratic pundents

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Speaker 3: whose basic response to like all the pulling data saying,

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Speaker 3: you know, people are okay, feel that their own finances

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Speaker 3: are okay, but they feel the economy in the wrong

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Speaker 3: direction and the countries going in the wrong word direction.

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Speaker 3: Their whole response is, oh, people are just brainwashed by TikTok, Right,

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Speaker 3: you are just brainwatched by the media. And I'm sorry

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Speaker 3: if that's your answer, Like who's going to listen to you?

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Speaker 3: And you don't actually like offer any path to win

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Speaker 3: these people back.

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Speaker 1: Well, And also if they're brainwashed, it's your fault.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, don't you know. Like I think there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of media bias that works against the Democrats. But like

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Speaker 3: the great Democratic politicians and you know, like Bill Clinton

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Speaker 3: and Barack Obama, they also have the ability to like

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Speaker 3: override the media. They had a voice that was so

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Speaker 3: compelling that it could swamp whatever the New York Times

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Speaker 3: or the networks were saying, or Fox was saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether Joe Biden has that ability or not, I'll leave

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Speaker 3: it to your listeners to the side.

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Speaker 1: Well, I also think that one of the really underreported

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Speaker 1: stories about Joe Biden is that people like him more

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Speaker 1: than they think they do. Yeah, which is why he

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Speaker 1: pulls poorly but does much better in elections.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: I wrote a piece in twenty sixteen about how he

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Speaker 1: should drop out because he had lost a lot of primaries, right,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, if you're going to be the

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Speaker 1: front runner, you have to run in front. And the

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Speaker 1: truth was, you know, there's something I mean, I do

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Speaker 1: not underestimate the innate racism of the American voting public.

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Speaker 1: He feels like a normal white guy, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's a huge advantage for him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I do think that works, and there is

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Speaker 3: a lot of affection for Joe Biden. Then, more to

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Speaker 3: the point, like I think if it does come down

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Speaker 3: to Trump versus Biden, like a lot of the Democrats

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Speaker 3: will rally because people remember the Trump era and then

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Speaker 3: Trump is in fact widely solved. But you know, like

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Speaker 3: I think the broader for local problem is you kind

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Speaker 3: of have to fear a waste to override the media

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Speaker 3: the negativity. And I'll just point to the democratic governors,

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Speaker 3: you know, Like I think if you look at the polling,

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Speaker 3: a lot of the governors are actually pulling quite well

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Speaker 3: in their states. And I think one reason is that

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Speaker 3: we have a lot of democraticors that are really effective

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Speaker 3: communicators but also like putting forward a strong agenda and

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Speaker 3: so people feel like, you know, well, this is someone

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Speaker 3: who's out there. I may not agree with them on everything,

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Speaker 3: but they're doing things, They're fighting for things, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's just so crucial. And I'm hoping that, you know,

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Speaker 3: like as we go into the election year, the Biden

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Speaker 3: team is able to like they don't fall into this

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Speaker 3: trap of just blaming the media, and they you know,

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Speaker 3: like they offer this positive vision of what they can

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Speaker 3: do to help make people's lives better.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that is the economic populism, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, we had shared Brown on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: People respond to it. The net of it is what

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Speaker 1: has Biden been doing right? He's been bringing manufacturing back

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Speaker 1: to America. I mean, yeah, one of the great examples

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Speaker 1: is like this, the Ukraine money goes to building weapons

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Speaker 1: in the United States. Now again I don't get super

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Speaker 1: psyched about weapons.

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Speaker 2: Defense contractors are not like my favorite.

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Speaker 1: You know, I grew up during the all for one

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Speaker 1: and two, so I do not have a place in

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Speaker 1: my heart for raytheon. But I do think that it

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Speaker 1: really is an important data point that the whole goal

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Speaker 1: of Bidenomics is to bring manufacturing back to the United States.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know. I do think he has a

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Speaker 3: good economic record, and I think there's stuff to run on,

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Speaker 3: and we're really I mean, like it is about getting

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Speaker 3: the message out there. I mean I thought that like

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Speaker 3: Obama in twenty twelve was very creative about like doing

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Speaker 3: things like that, just going on like you know, sports radio, right,

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Speaker 3: and like people would never pay at that to the politics.

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Speaker 3: But certainly, you know, Obama's talking about his picks and

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Speaker 3: then he mentions his policies. There are ways that you

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Speaker 3: can you can get around the media. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: think that's the work that has to be done. No, again,

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Speaker 3: I don't think it rests just on Biden or you know,

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Speaker 3: his reelection campaign. I think it's a broader Democratic Party thing,

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Speaker 3: and you know, like you know, as we're near the

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Speaker 3: end of the year, like we should also emphasize the

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Speaker 3: polling is a bit bleak, but you know, Democrats have

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Speaker 3: done really well, Like the midterms were good and that

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Speaker 3: all all the special elections. What you're seeing is Democrats

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Speaker 3: outperforming the fundamentals, outperforming what they usually do. And to me,

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Speaker 3: that shows, you know, there's a lot of signs out

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Speaker 3: there that is becoming a stronger party with especially like

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Speaker 3: a stronger grassroots and stronger people who've been radicalized by

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Speaker 3: Dobbs and radicalized all the you know Moms for Liberty

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Speaker 3: garbage who are like radicalized by January sixth and really

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Speaker 3: worry about their democracy. You have a really strong grassroots

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Speaker 3: that's you know, they're going to go to the mat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. Gee here, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for joining us. I hope you'll come back.

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Speaker 3: You can't keep me away from you.

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Speaker 1: Shared Brown is the senior senator from the great state

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Speaker 1: of Ohio. Welcome back. I think you've actually been on

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Speaker 1: this podcast before. Senator Sharon Brown.

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Speaker 5: Good to be with you. I really appreciate your doing

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Speaker 5: this well.

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited.

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Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you about DoD but

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Speaker 1: first I want you to talk to us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your senate race.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe. I feel like you just had a

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Speaker 2: center raise, But I guess it was six years ago, right, I.

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Speaker 4: Guess it was.

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Speaker 5: And these rais, I mean with the money you spend

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Speaker 5: and chaos going on in the House representatives now, it

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Speaker 5: seems like elections never in, but I guess they do.

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Speaker 4: And then you move on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so sort of get me up to speed about

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Speaker 2: what's happening.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I represent a state Trump won twice. I will

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Speaker 5: be Trump's likely his number one target in the country

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Speaker 5: were Trump because he won a while by eight points

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Speaker 5: each time. Think they could beat me, But keep your

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Speaker 5: head down. I focus on this job, on the dignity

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Speaker 5: of work. Ohio is not as conservative as some national

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Speaker 5: media people like to think. We passed by thirteen points

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Speaker 5: a const social amendment on abortion rights. All three of

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Speaker 5: my Republican opponents facing each other in the March primary

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Speaker 5: next year or for an abortion national abortion band. So

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Speaker 5: you know I've never said mine. I think I said

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Speaker 5: this to you before. I never see politics as sort

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Speaker 5: of left to right liberal. I see it as whosidy

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Speaker 5: on And this is so clear at abortion rights that

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Speaker 5: you know I side with women in their in their

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Speaker 5: families and their doctor and my opponents. They think that

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Speaker 5: politicians and Columbus or Washington should make those decisions and

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Speaker 5: voters in my state that hell not to that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they did with that abortion measure in August.

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Speaker 1: We talked a lot about how, you know, the sort

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Speaker 1: of Ohio Republicans war on balid initiatives and how they

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Speaker 1: wanted to raise the margins to make it harder to

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Speaker 1: pass a ballot initiative that didn't work. They had that

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Speaker 1: vote in August than they had this abortion vote.

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Speaker 2: You are Ohio through and through.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel that Ohioans Is it like Kansas with

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Speaker 1: brown Back? Is there a kind of fury towards these Republicans?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think it's it's clear that Ohio don't want

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Speaker 5: the rights taken away. Even people that might not have

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Speaker 5: voted for Issue one are already incensed. A lot of

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Speaker 5: them that even though when had passed by thirteen points,

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Speaker 5: that there are still Ohio Republicans at the state House

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Speaker 5: and on the court system whatever that still think they

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Speaker 5: don't have to abide by this constitutional amendment, and that's

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Speaker 5: just wrong. This is a state. But leading up to

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Speaker 5: this constitutional amendment, it's pretty interesting in that seven hundred

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Speaker 5: thousand people signed a petition as you said, Republicans to go.

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Speaker 5: They tried to disqualify a number of those signatures. Then

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Speaker 5: they went to the ballot to try to raise the

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Speaker 5: threshold and set a fifty percent plus one to amend

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Speaker 5: the constitution needed sixty percent. Then politicians and Columbus changed

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Speaker 5: the ballot language. They're supposed to summarize the vaalot language.

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Speaker 5: Instead they made it longer and they put things in

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Speaker 5: there like preborn child in the ballot language. Then they

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Speaker 5: made it harder to vote. If you go to Ohio

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Speaker 5: State or Kent State or University of Cincinnati, you get

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Speaker 5: a student ID issued by a state underscore state university,

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Speaker 5: that doesn't get you a ballot. You still have to

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Speaker 5: get a state ID. It's clear that the opponents to

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Speaker 5: a abortion rights tried to do everything, yet we still

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Speaker 5: won my thirteen points and they're still fighting it. So

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Speaker 5: people just you know, women don't trust Paul Ohisle politicians.

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Speaker 5: And then on top of that, you got the three

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Speaker 5: Republicans I said running for this seat in the March

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Speaker 5: primary that are still saying we're for a national abortion band,

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Speaker 5: which is a direct hit in the face to the

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Speaker 5: fifty six percent that voted for these constitutional rights.

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Speaker 2: You've been involved in Dodd Frank. Will you give us

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Speaker 2: a little bit of an explanation of what's happening with

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Speaker 2: Dodd Frank right now.

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Speaker 5: We had a hearing last week with the six with

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Speaker 5: the eight Masters of the universe, the largest bank, the

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Speaker 5: president CEOs of the largest banks in the country, who

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Speaker 5: wield immense power in this economy. Frankly wield amidst power

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Speaker 5: in the halls of Congress.

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Speaker 4: The Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 5: Have a rule under Dodd Frank to bulk up if

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Speaker 5: fuel to strengthen capital requirements so banks don't collapse and

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Speaker 5: end up with a public a government bailout. All eight

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Speaker 5: of them were opposed to them. Lobbyists never give up.

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Speaker 5: I remember, right after the bill had Dodd Frank passed,

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Speaker 5: a bank lobbyist, whether a prominent bank lobbyist, said now

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Speaker 5: it's halftime. In other words, we're going to keep fighting.

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Speaker 5: And they have. They fought for ten years, actually more

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Speaker 5: than ten years now. They fought the implementation of Dodd Frank.

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Speaker 5: They're continuing to fight it. There's something we're working on now,

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Speaker 5: an executive compensation rule that the regulators had to pass.

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Speaker 5: The Trump regulators simply didn't move on it at all.

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Speaker 5: We're now trying to get this to happen. The bank

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Speaker 5: lobbyists are fighting there. Somebody said to me the other day,

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Speaker 5: when you go to the grocery store, right, you pay

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Speaker 5: more because of stock buybacks and executive compensation and bonus.

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Speaker 5: I mean every day Ohio would say more because of

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Speaker 5: the corporate stock buybacks and the executive bonuses. And my

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Speaker 5: job is to take on those interest groups. And Dodd

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Speaker 5: Frank was one of them that passed. It's a good

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Speaker 5: bill generally, we want to make sure it's implemented. We

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Speaker 5: want to make sure that the banks don't weaken it.

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Speaker 1: So in Ohio we have this case right now. Your

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Speaker 1: governor always s it gets credit for being a monerate,

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Speaker 1: though clearly he's very much not.

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Speaker 2: You have a case right now. Brittany Watts, she had

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Speaker 2: a mischaracter twenty two weeks she miscarried in Toilet. The

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Speaker 2: grand jury is still out on whether or not she's

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Speaker 2: gonna be charged with this heinous corpse mangling charge. Can

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Speaker 2: you talk to us about this dystopian nightmare that's happening

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Speaker 2: in your state.

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Speaker 5: You could look at it every look what happens in

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Speaker 5: Texas with the woman in Texas. I mean it's not

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Speaker 5: really all Republicans at state House politicians that they don't

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Speaker 5: believe in women's rights.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, you know what, one thing.

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Speaker 5: I learned a long time, not a long time, I've

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Speaker 5: learned really since since Row, really maybe since five years ago.

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Speaker 5: I don't know that we win these big battles as progressives,

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Speaker 5: as people that care about human rights. We win on

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Speaker 5: abortion rights, we went on civil rights. We win on

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Speaker 5: generally human rights issues. And I thought they're permanent. Well,

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Speaker 5: women are always have, always have those rights, voters will

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Speaker 5: always have these rights. But doctor King's with credit Scott

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Speaker 5: King said you got to fight for him each generation.

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Speaker 5: So what I've learned watching all this and I felt

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Speaker 5: naive and respect, is that you've got it. You've got

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Speaker 5: to stay in the arena. You got to stay act,

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Speaker 5: You've got to do things like you're doing Mally in

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Speaker 5: shows like this and writing and speaking out because these

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Speaker 5: battles are never fully won. And I can see it

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Speaker 5: in Ohio right now, we definitively overwhelmingly passed constitutional abortion rights.

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Speaker 5: Politicians aren't going to buy it. I mean, these aren't

435
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 5: decisions for politicians to make, the voters made them. That's

436
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 5: what keeps me going, knowing that these victories are never permanent.

437
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 5: You've got to keep making sure that you're defending people's rights.

438
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 5: You don't win them forever. You win them, and you

439
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 5: keep fighting because the other side, always with more money,

440
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 5: always with more media outlets like Fox and right wing

441
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 5: talk radio, will always assault at the edges or straight

442
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 5: on on the rights that we have gained for Americans.

443
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: It's really true. Do you think though, that there is, like.

444
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 1: On the local level in Ohio, people who are pushing back.

445
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 3: Oh?

446
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I mean, do you think that this is

447
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: created as sort of backlash?

448
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 4: Oh?

449
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 5: I think the more they push it, the backlash already

450
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 5: showed itself in twenty eighteen when I won by seven points,

451
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 5: won only I won sixteen out eighty eight counties. Abortion

452
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 5: rights won in those sixteen and nine others because more

453
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 5: and more suburban women, but small town women too, and

454
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 5: men are realizing we deserve these rights and we're not

455
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 5: going to give up these rights. And when when they've

456
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 5: voted overwhelmingly, and Ohio voters voted and I said fifty

457
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 5: six forty four, you know I'm no pundit, but I

458
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 5: also know that when you make that decision, that that

459
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 5: emphatic decision taking those rights away is just morally wrong

460
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 5: and anti small deed democratic. The backlash was already against

461
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 5: the six week abortion ban in Columbus, and that was

462
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 5: what the vote showed. The back life is even greater now.

463
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 5: Islands want someone on their side, and that's what I

464
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 5: want to be is continue to fight for people and

465
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 5: be on their side of me. So I said, it's

466
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 5: it's not left to right in politics so much as

467
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 5: it's who's on their side. And that's why I went

468
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 5: a state that some people say Democrats can't win, or

469
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 5: some people say it's concerned good matters.

470
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 4: You're concerned liberally.

471
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 5: You want somebody to fight for you, and you want

472
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 5: somebody to stay to be on your side. That's the

473
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 5: secret to governing and the secret to politics generally.

474
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: Do you think that voters the reason that they're willing

475
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: to cross the ticket for you, or voters but ticket,

476
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 2: is because they know you or because I mean, what

477
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 2: do you think that sort of secret sauce is?

478
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 5: I don't think it's secret. I spent my life fighting

479
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 5: for the dignity of work, taking on the drug companies,

480
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 5: taking on the oil companies, taking on the corporations that

481
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 5: jam the country and jam Congress on NAFTA and Most

482
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 5: Favored Nation status for China, and all the things they

483
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 5: did that destroyed, undermined, or even destroyed some communities in

484
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 5: Ohio and some neighborhoods where people lost decent, middle class,

485
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 5: solid working class union jobs and people. That's why people

486
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 5: recognize them on their side and standing up, I wear

487
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 5: a pen on my lapel Molley. That's a depiction of

488
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 5: canary and a birdcage the mine workers one hundred and

489
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 5: twenty years going to take the canary down the mine.

490
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 5: They had no government, they had no union in those

491
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 5: days strong enough or a government that cared enough to

492
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 5: protect them. And I wear that lapel still in my

493
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 5: suit because it reminds me about the dignity of work.

494
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 5: It reminds me whom we're fighting for and what we're

495
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 5: fighting against.

496
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so important.

497
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: Do you think that your message of economic populism? Can

498
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: Democrats run with that more? And if so, how, I'm

499
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: not a planet. I'll tell other people what to do.

500
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 5: But many in Ohio seem to think the Democratic Party

501
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 5: unfortunately is a bicoastal elite and we're not. But we've

502
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 5: got to talk more about workers and see things through

503
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 5: the eyes of workers more than we do it. I

504
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 5: just say people think hard work should pay off. If

505
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 5: you love this country, you fight for the people who

506
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 5: make it work. That's been always my focus. I'll always

507
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 5: be pro choice. I've been supportive marriage equality for twenty

508
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 5: five years, so I stood up to the gun lobby,

509
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 5: and I understand those are economic issues too for the

510
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 5: American public. I recognize that young people, it's the most

511
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 5: pro union generation in my lifetime. Young people, and they

512
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 5: want a chance, whether they work at Starbucks, whether they

513
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 5: work they go through a union apprenticeship program and become

514
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 5: a bricklayer, or whether they go to college and want

515
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 5: to fight for the causes they believe in it. It's

516
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 5: all about giving kids an opportunity and in joining a

517
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 5: union at whatever age you are.

518
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 2: Since you're in Ohio and you're seeing a lot on the.

519
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: Ground, do you think that with the death of local news,

520
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: which is something your wife is involved in as well,

521
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: who's a journalist, are you seeing a certain like a

522
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: disinformation gap. Are you seeing like on the ground people

523
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: believing stuff that's not true.

524
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: I mean, are you seeing the results.

525
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 5: Of that or no, yeah, you do. But I think

526
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 5: in Ohio perhaps it's a unique case. The Speaker of

527
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 5: the House, the chairman of the state Republican Party, and

528
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 5: now the already have been sentenced to prison twenty years

529
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 5: and five years, respectively. We're taking a sixty one million

530
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 5: dollar bride. The governor's head of the Public Utilities Commission

531
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 5: was just indicted on similar charges. We think more and

532
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 5: we hear more people. I'm not a lawyer, I don't

533
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 5: know more be indicted, but the local news. There's just

534
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 5: not enough reporters at the State House anymore. I mean,

535
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 5: I think they're working hard, they're aggressive, but there's only

536
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 5: so much on their plate, and we are larger number

537
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 5: of reporters that make a huge difference there. So you

538
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 5: see politicians getting away with far too much because there's

539
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 5: not the aggressive press core because they're so outnumbered than

540
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 5: there used to be. And I guess I close with

541
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 5: that thinking that I'm yearning for those days when the

542
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 5: press really did have real investigative powers and authority and

543
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 5: enough money to do it right.

544
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Senator, Thanks Ollie.

545
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 5: Thank you fun interview, good questions.

546
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 4: Thanks.

547
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: Jim Messina is the former White House Deputy Chief of

548
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: Staff and campaign manager for President Barack Obama.

549
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics.

550
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 4: Jim, Thanks for having me.

551
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: Very exciting, very very exciting.

552
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,479
Speaker 1: So I have a cousin who calls me and he says,

553
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: if we could just get Joe Biden to drop out,

554
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: then just talk sense to that cousin.

555
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 4: That cousin, my family, all my friends. Yeah, Molly, I'm

556
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 4: doing a lot of calming the bed wetters these days.

557
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 4: And look, my only superpower is like I love data,

558
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 4: and I look at the data and I just think

559
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 4: a couple things for your cousin and my mama. The

560
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 4: first is, let's not get out of hand that Joe

561
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 4: Biden getting out of this race would fix things, because

562
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 4: a couple reminders here. I mean, he beat Donald Trump once.

563
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 4: In my opinion, the democratic opinion, Donald Trump is the

564
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 4: biggest threat to democracy of our lifetime, and so we

565
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 4: had to do whatever we can to make sure he

566
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 4: doesn't get elected. And I think the best way to

567
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 4: do that is to nominate Joe Biden. It's not because

568
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 4: I'm from Biden crazy, It's because a couple of things. One,

569
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 4: we've already had this selection. And it's interesting, in the

570
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 4: history of presidential elections and US Senate elections, no one

571
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 4: who's been beaten once came back and beat the same

572
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 4: candidate the second time. The other thing is, okay, let's

573
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 4: say Joe Biden gets out tomorrow, Mollie. I've met with

574
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 4: over twenty five people who would announce the next day

575
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 4: they're running for president of the United States, and we

576
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 4: don't know who's going to become the nominee, and we

577
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 4: certainly don't know if that person is battle tested and

578
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 4: ready to be the Democratic nominee for president. Let me

579
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: give you some examples. I mean, the entire Republican Party

580
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 4: thought that Ron DeSantis was his godsend and was going

581
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 4: to sweep away Donald Trump and be this amazing candidate.

582
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 4: He has turned out to be a really poor national candidate.

583
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: He still wears the lefts continued, Yes.

584
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, still wears the lefts and his wife is still

585
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 4: a much better campaigner than he is. You know, there

586
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 4: was no Rudy Giuliani presidency. He was way ahead the

587
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: polls and turned out to be a terrible candidate. You know,

588
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 4: the same, And there's Democrats like Gary hard too. Everyone

589
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 4: thought it was gonna be the nominee, you know, fell apart.

590
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 4: So I'm just not sure who would be the nominee.

591
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 4: And it's such a condensed calendar that, you know, what

592
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 4: if we nominate someone who can't win the general election

593
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 4: and Donald Trump like walks in. So you know, those

594
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 4: are reasons why I think that we are safer with

595
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 4: Joe Biden at the top of the ticket. Now, look,

596
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 4: I'm not saying this is going to be a kickwalk

597
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 4: He barely won last time. This is going to be

598
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 4: a close election. But I think when you think about

599
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 4: Barack Obama once said to me that every president is

600
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: always a reflection of the previous president, which, if you

601
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 4: think about it, Molly, is super interesting and probably true.

602
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 4: People thought that Jimmy Carter was out of touch. They

603
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 4: nominated this kind of guy with a vision rom of Reagan.

604
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 4: Then George Bush came after him, and people thought he

605
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 4: was sleeping the switch on the economy. So we got

606
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: this in touch Bill Clinton. People thought that at the

607
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 4: end of his presidency he had some moral questions. We

608
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 4: did the compassionate conservative George Bush. People thought that at

609
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 4: the end of his presidency. He was an idiot. So

610
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 4: they got the urbane Barack Obama, who was the opposite

611
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 4: of Barack Obama Donald Trump. And when you think about

612
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 4: kind of why Joe Biden won this election four years ago,

613
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: it was because he was the opposite of Donald Trump.

614
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 4: He was calm, he was someone who could get things done,

615
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 4: understood the process. Those things haven't really changed in the

616
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: minds of the voters. So it is why people like

617
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 4: me are comfortable that Joe Biden is our best candidate.

618
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.

619
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: And I'm me and Ron DeSantis and he's still wearing

620
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: the cowboy boots.

621
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 4: You know, it's true. And voters are so much smarter

622
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 4: than people think they are and they can just see

623
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 4: through that bullshit.

624
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really good point.

625
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: And when you look at this sort of the landscape

626
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: of the Democratic base, I think what's really interesting to

627
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: me is that there is actually huge bench of talent.

628
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 4: Boy, there really is. You know, again, I met with

629
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 4: over twenty five people, and only there's some people out

630
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 4: there who were just really going to be great national candidates.

631
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 4: We think now, you know, we don't know what we think.

632
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 4: I mean, remember that we want sad Johna. We're just

633
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 4: going to be this savior and that turned out not

634
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: to be. But with you watch away. Gretchen Whitmer handled

635
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 4: the abortion issue in Michigan and made an economic issue,

636
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 4: which every Democrat should do. She's got national talent. Gavin

637
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 4: Newsom national talent, was more national talent, jab Pritzker national talent.

638
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 4: Like you know, there's more and more of those people

639
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 4: that you and I can talk about, Gina Romondo, Pete Buddha, Judge, Like,

640
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 4: there's just so many people, which is really a contrast

641
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 4: to the last time we were in this place where

642
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 4: you know, it was sort of Obama or Hillary and

643
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 4: it was sort of Biden or a couple of people.

644
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 4: There's just so much talent out there.

645
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: Say more about Gretchen Womor making abortion and economic issue.

646
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 4: So I'm obsessed with this. So all of the Democratic

647
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 4: consultants in the ten square free logic zone called Washington

648
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: d C. Ten square miles no fucking logic. This great

649
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: group called American Bridge put everyone together in January or

650
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 4: February of twenty twenty two, and I stood up and said, look,

651
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court is likely going to get rid of

652
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 4: Row it's going to be the issue. We need to

653
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 4: start talking about how to talk about this. Every consultant

654
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 4: told me how dumb it was, how stupid I was,

655
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 4: and how economics are the only issues that would matter

656
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 4: and we just need to stay focused on that.

657
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: You know, people told me that very same.

658
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 4: Thing exactly, and like it was terrible advice then and

659
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,479
Speaker 4: it's terrible advice now. But if you look at like,

660
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 4: you know, there's been this long debate in the Democratic

661
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 4: Party do you do turnout or do you do persuasion

662
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: to swing voters? The answer is you do both. And

663
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 4: Gretchen Whitber was the first person who figured out how

664
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 4: to do both on economics and abortion. She had this

665
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 4: stunning ad where she looks at the camera and says,

666
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 4: you know, people think the right to choose isn't an

667
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 4: economic issue, but deciding whether or not have a kid

668
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 4: is the biggest economic issue you're going to have as

669
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 4: a family, and kids are expensive. And this is why

670
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: I fight so hard because it should be your choice.

671
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 4: These are your decisions. And it was just brilliant, and

672
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 4: she doubled down and continued to talk about it in

673
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 4: a way that I think is just really instructed for

674
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 4: the rest of the Democratic Party.

675
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. I just today was interviewing

676
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: Shared Brown, who was talking about how the economic populism

677
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: is something that you know, even though Trump was lying,

678
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: it really did help him huge.

679
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 4: Man, exactly. I mean, here's the again, back to the numbers.

680
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 4: Started to poor your listeners with numbers, But you and

681
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 4: I fucking love it. Joe Biden became the first president

682
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 4: in one hundred years to win the presidency while losing

683
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 4: the who's better on the economy question to Donald Trump?

684
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 4: And and party did it because Trump was so fucking crazy,

685
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 4: and party did it because of COVID. The economic issues

686
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: tend to be incredibly important.

687
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 1: So just talk to me about what you think Biden

688
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: world needs to do to win.

689
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 4: Here a couple things. Number one, I mean, if you

690
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 4: think about when you run a presidential campaign, I'd run

691
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 4: Molly ten Center races before I ran a presidential campaign,

692
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 4: and they're just wildly different. And what you realize is

693
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 4: in the presidential campaign there are really two groups of

694
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 4: people you have to care the most about. The first

695
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 4: and most important is your supporters. Why is that the

696
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 4: most important? Because they can do three things that you

697
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 4: desperately need them to do. First of all, they can

698
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 4: vote for you, obviously very crucial. Second of all, they

699
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 4: can give you money and volunteer time insanely crucial. And

700
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 4: third and probably the most important, they can get their

701
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: friends and family to vote for you as well. They

702
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 4: can be ambassadors. They can say, hey, Molly, this is

703
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 4: why I'm supporting Joe Biden, and you should too. And

704
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 4: in the same age of political cynicism and thirty second ads,

705
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 4: it is a proven fact that the most important thing

706
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 4: on how voters think is what their friends and families

707
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 4: say about politics. Those of you who listen to Molly

708
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 4: every week and care deeply about this, like this is

709
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 4: why you want this information. You are the most important people.

710
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 4: So that's the first part. This is this bucket called

711
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 4: our own supporters. And the second bucket is swing voters.

712
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 4: And remember that America is the most partisan country in

713
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,479
Speaker 4: the world. I have thirteen presidents and prime ministers around

714
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 4: the world as my clients, and the average European, Asian

715
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 4: or Latin American elections about a fourth to forty percent

716
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 4: of voters could go back and forth between the major parties.

717
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 4: In the United States, it's about eight percent eight, maybe

718
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 4: ten percent on the best moment of voters could actually

719
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 4: vote for Joe Biden and Donald Trump. And so we're

720
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 4: talking about a really small amount of people. So that

721
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 4: is an incredibly long way of answering your question, which

722
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 4: is what should Joe Biden's campaign. The very first thing

723
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 4: they have to do is focus on their supporters, and

724
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 4: they're really doing that. You and I were on Morning

725
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 4: Joe recently talking about that they have the law or

726
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 4: just buy in the history of American politics on social

727
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 4: media to young voters, African Americans, and Latinos, three areas

728
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 4: where they have struggled a little bit, as every presidential campaign,

729
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 4: including Barack Obama did too, because after four years, everyone's

730
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 4: pissed about something. They need to message to those people

731
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 4: and they're spending a lot of time right now doing that.

732
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 4: And then two, they have to focus on these swing voters,

733
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 4: and the swing voters are really about two kinds of things.

734
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 4: First is trying to say, hey, I've done the job,

735
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 4: and they're doing that, and I think that's the kind

736
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 4: of thing that they've done enough of and it's now

737
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 4: time to start to do something else. And then two

738
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 4: is the choice. The choice between him and Donald Trump.

739
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 4: I used to say to President Obama when I would

740
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 4: fly to see him on Saturdays at the White House. Look,

741
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 4: if this election is a referendum on you, you will lose,

742
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 4: because incumbents lose referendums on them. If is a choice

743
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 4: between you and Romney, you're going to win because you're

744
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 4: the better choice. And so eventually they need to make

745
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 4: this a choice. And again, back to the logic free

746
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,959
Speaker 4: zone of Washington, d C. Where you and I spend

747
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 4: too much time. Right now, everyone there is wedding the beds, screaming,

748
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 4: Oh my God, make it a choice. Make it a choice.

749
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 4: And the question on the table is when they do that.

750
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 4: And you know, probably the week before Christmas is not

751
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 4: a banner fucking time to do that. And probably when

752
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 4: they'll do that is post Iowa and definitely post March third,

753
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 4: which is Super Tuesday, where Donald Trump will have enough

754
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 4: delegates to be officially the nominee. I would expect coming

755
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 4: out of the new year, you will see the campaign

756
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 4: do that full time. And they've started to hint they're

757
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 4: going to do that. They've had President Biden do it

758
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 4: a couple times in the past two weeks. I saw

759
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 4: you talking about that as well. He's starting to talk

760
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 4: about Trump in a way he hadn't for a while.

761
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 4: It's about time to do this.

762
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: Do you think that one of the problems that Democrats have,

763
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: and not just Democrats, but like more traditional normal politicians

764
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: who are not completely insane, is that they don't fill

765
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: up the vacuum like one of the things Trump has

766
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: done really well, and this is true with some of

767
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: the other MAGA politicians. There are younger Democrats who have

768
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: done this too, in a different way, not insane the

769
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: way the Republicans have. But what Trump did was he

770
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: filled the vacuum with a narrative and his people got

771
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: a narrative and he got it out there quickly. And

772
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: like what you see with his legal cases, this is

773
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: a man who is he is doing these legal cases

774
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: in the court of public opinion for his people. We're

775
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: looking at Hunter Biden yesterday doing that very same thing,

776
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: which I actually think is very smart. But do you

777
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: think it's smart. It's really a new way for Democrats

778
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: to engage with voters.

779
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 2: I mean, in this case, it's not voters. Whatever it is.

780
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: With the mainstream media.

781
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: People say all the time, like why do people like

782
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, like this is crazy, Like, you know, I

783
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 4: can't figure this out. My mom like all the time

784
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 4: says to me, just I don't have any friends who

785
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 4: like him. To explain to me why people like this

786
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 4: lying asshole. And Donald Trump has two superpowers Molly that

787
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 4: I think people forget. First of all, he's the best

788
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 4: counterpuncher in modern American political history. And you see this

789
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 4: by the famous you know, the way he branded Marco

790
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 4: Ruveo with the little hands, and you know, he has

791
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 4: the sanctimonious and like those things are just brilliant. But

792
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 4: there's lots of people who could do that. I think

793
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 4: he's better at it than anyone else. But he's you know,

794
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 4: it's not what he's really good at. What he's insanely

795
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 4: good at the best I've ever seen the best, certainly

796
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 4: since Reagan is controlling the narrative to your point, he understands.

797
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 4: There was this amazing article that scared the hell out

798
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 4: of me yesterday talking about how he is obsessed with

799
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 4: memes on social media and he is driving by himself

800
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 4: the memes and deciding what the memes are. And then

801
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 4: he emails a bunch of the big social media kind

802
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 4: of people who have huge followers and says, you know,

803
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 4: these are the memes we need to push. That is

804
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: what the Democrats aren't doing. It is just incredibly amazing

805
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 4: because like we invented. You could argue Barack Obama's campaign

806
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 4: did the first one, but Democrats invented social media, and

807
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 4: we invented running presidential campaigns on it. And it seems

808
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 4: like we've just forgot. And meanwhile, Donald Trump is doing this.

809
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 4: And so you've heard me ramble about this before, but

810
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with TikTok. I'm obsessed with TikTok because it's

811
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 4: awesome and I have so much fun on it. And

812
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: I'm also obsessed because one hundred and seventy five million

813
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 4: Americans are on it, and all of our targets are

814
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 4: on it, including young, brown, black, and women voters. And

815
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 4: the amount of share for Donald Trump. Neither Trump or

816
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 4: Biden is on the platform, but the amount of share

817
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 4: of voice Trump is just decimating Biden on it. And

818
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: it's because he has all these fervent supporters who are

819
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 4: to your point, filling the funnel, who are creating content,

820
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: who are doing things, and it is one of the

821
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 4: two things that keeps me up at night. About the

822
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four presidential election.

823
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lack of transparency with all of these algorithms,

824
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: but with the social media platform that is owned by

825
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: the Chinese government, we're content Like Osama bin Laden's letter

826
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: to America trend, why isn't there more? I mean Republicans

827
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: hate it, Democrats hate it, Like, why can't they just

828
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: ban it?

829
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 4: Well, a couple of things. We have this pesky First

830
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 4: Amendment that you know, when I was in the White House,

831
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 4: I tried to ban Huawei, the Chinese telecom saying the

832
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 4: lawyers finally came down and patted me on my little

833
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 4: head and said, you know, it's uncons social to ban

834
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 4: a single company. Second, I think there's been some confusion

835
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 4: on it. I mean, they're not owned by the Chinese government.

836
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 4: Seventy five percent of their investor base is owned by

837
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 4: US venture capital firms, Like you're not going to get

838
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 4: rid of so we need to engage on them. And

839
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 4: to your earlier point, some young people, some young elected

840
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 4: officials like this guy Jeff Jackson, who's Member of Congress,

841
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 4: has two million followers because he just uses it every day. Right,

842
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 4: there's this democratic group called Voters for change.

843
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, gen Z voters for change, I know them, gen.

844
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 4: Z, thank you. Yeah, they're unbelievably good on TikTok and

845
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 4: you know, so we just need to create content for

846
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 4: it since it's not going to go away, and the

847
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 4: right understands that and the left doesn't seem to.

848
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: That's not good in this sort of moment. Do you

849
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: think there should be sort of more by now they're

850
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 2: more gamma out, there are more surrogates. I mean, what

851
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: do you think this sort of tax should be? I mean,

852
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: should there be more rallies? How would you be running

853
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: US re elect?

854
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 4: What would you do come next year? I think the

855
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 4: answer is more and more and more, right, like, we

856
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 4: need more of everything. And I think in the off year,

857
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 4: to go back to my earlier point, I understood the strategy.

858
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 4: It was kind of the Obama twenty twelve strategy, which is,

859
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 4: We're going to spend twenty eleven talking to our base,

860
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 4: getting our poops in groups, building our campaign stuff, and

861
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 4: then go out and you know, Barco people will always

862
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 4: forget this. But Obama did one rally in twenty eleven

863
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 4: to announce his candidacy and a and then didn't do

864
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 4: another one until twenty twelve. We just raised money for

865
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 4: a year. But I think there are a couple things

866
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 4: that they need to unleash pretty quickly. The first is

867
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 4: the vice president. You know, everyone's freaking out about African

868
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: American youth and Latino turnout. She's amazingly good at talking

869
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 4: to those folks. Another thing is, you know, you and

870
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 4: I talked about this on one of the shows we

871
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 4: run together. You know, the day after Florida did what

872
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 4: they did on abortion, she flew there and had a

873
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 4: fight with d Santis De Santis exactly. Unleash her on

874
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 4: that center of the college campuses. She's doing some of

875
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 4: that stuff. We just don't see it because we're only

876
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 4: you know, sadly for America. There's only five states that

877
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 4: matter in this election. And so if you live in

878
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 4: the other forty five states, which I've bet a huge

879
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 4: majority of your listeners.

880
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 2: Do and we do too, yes, boy, exactly right.

881
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 4: So that's one they need to unleash her. And then

882
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 4: two people forget who the most popular elected official in

883
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,879
Speaker 4: America is, and it is Michelle Obama. And so it's

884
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: time for missus Oba. I'm going to come off the

885
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 4: bench too. In prison a Whama as well, he's already

886
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 4: done stuff. But you know, the surrogate stuff really matters.

887
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 4: I mean I used and abused Bill Clinton in twenty twelve,

888
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 4: like he was my own personal.

889
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: I feel like you're gonna get in trouble for this.

890
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: You have a minder on it. No, anyway, go ahead, yes.

891
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 4: And Bill Clinton would say that too, like everywhere, hilarious. Yeah,

892
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 4: Like I sent him everywhere because he was the explainer

893
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 4: in chief and he was explained to the American voters

894
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 4: why what Barack Obama was doing on the economy worked

895
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 4: and it was really important.

896
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 2: He also read as an old white guy. I think

897
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: we cannot.

898
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: Underestimate the old white guy aesthetic when it comes to politics.

899
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, continue, no, no, no, it's it's it's very true.

900
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: You sent Bill Clinton out there, so you think that

901
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: that's really Michelle Obama needs to be out there.

902
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, I do think, you know,

903
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 4: we need white sarrogance. And the other thing is like,

904
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 4: who are the swing voters really out there? And they

905
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 4: are women in these five states that really matter, right,

906
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 4: and who are the people that talk to them? Like,

907
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 4: you know, I just saw some research that you know

908
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 4: that these undecided women who voted for Donald Trump and

909
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 4: Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Right, See, this is a

910
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 4: small group of people in these five states that really matter.

911
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 4: Guess who they want to hear from? Molly Taylor Swift.

912
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: That's right, I mean, don't we all?

913
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 3: Yes?

914
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 4: Yesterday was her birthday. By the way, shout.

915
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: Out all right, I'm going to let you go. I

916
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: really appreciate you. I hope you'll come back.

917
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Thanks, take care the moment.

918
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, my junk Fast. You know, it's some of

919
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: my favorite things about the Trump era of Republicans always

920
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 2: saying the quiet part out loud, what are you seeing here? Always? Always,

921
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 2: always Republican.

922
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 1: Troy Nows when asked what he hoped to see from

923
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: an impeachment inquiry, which Republicans voted for on Wednesday, he said,

924
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: Trump twenty twenty four, baby, Because this has never been

925
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: about impeaching Biden. This has always been about giving Trump

926
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: a little bit of cover and helping his reelection. And

927
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: for that, for saying the quiet part out loud, that

928
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: is our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode

929
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday Wednesday and Friday

930
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of

931
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please

932
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

933
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.