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Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: I've been reading about NBC attacking NBA basketball negotiations and
Speaker 2: if they took them from TNT, what would they do
Speaker 2: with the inside the NBA crew. Well, first of all,
Speaker 2: the inside the NBA crew sometimes is better than the
Speaker 2: actual games, especially in the regular season. I think it
Speaker 2: would be a huge mistake to break him up. Now
Speaker 2: Ernie Johnson, who is the host, the affable host, the
Speaker 2: beloved host who he just moves the pieces around, he
Speaker 2: gets out of the way. He is perfect. I do
Speaker 2: believe you could find another host. You never replace Ernie
Speaker 2: in terms of just how the players feel about Ernie.
Speaker 2: You'd have to get a host that the players voted on.
Speaker 2: You couldn't just insert somebody from another network and say
Speaker 2: make it work. Ernie has so much respect and admiration
Speaker 2: from the crew. Now, Barkley obviously drives the number, and
Speaker 2: Ernie Johnson will be the first to admit that Shaq
Speaker 2: and Charles really have You know, some Knights. They're feuding
Speaker 2: other Knights. They're hysterical laughing at each other. Kenny Smith
Speaker 2: more of the straight man. But it reminds me a
Speaker 2: little bit of the Fox broadcasting crew on Sundays, where
Speaker 2: you know Bradshaw was the funny guy, Howie's this straight man,
Speaker 2: Jimmy Johnson's the coach, and he really is a coach
Speaker 2: in real life and on the set he kind of
Speaker 2: runs it all. And then Kurt Man if he knows
Speaker 2: when to jump in, push the buttons, poke in the ribs,
Speaker 2: move out. Then you have Strahan Jay Glazer, but there
Speaker 2: are there's usually a star of a show, a straight man,
Speaker 2: and Ernie provides hosting capabilities that the respect and the
Speaker 2: admiration he has from the guys is kind of you
Speaker 2: won't find another Ernie, but it is led by Charles,
Speaker 2: and I think when you lose in Ernie, and that's
Speaker 2: that's losing something, then you have to take all of
Speaker 2: them as great as Charles Barkley is. The chemist is
Speaker 2: a big part of this. And in my years of
Speaker 2: doing radio and TV, and I've been doing this now
Speaker 2: thirty years, it's the one thing that the really good
Speaker 2: executives of Owa's understood and the average executives overlook is chemistry.
Speaker 2: I've had multiple partners radio TV, but yet I've had
Speaker 2: one or two shows that chemistry was outstanding. It's hard
Speaker 2: to explain, it's hard to foster. There's just like you
Speaker 2: know it, it just works. Maybe there's a mutual respect
Speaker 2: you have something in common. Somebody finishes your sentences. But
Speaker 2: if you're gonna lose Ernie, who has reportedly said, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm staying with TNT and your NBC, and you're going
Speaker 2: to bring that crew over if they did in fact
Speaker 2: win the rights, you got to lean on that crew
Speaker 2: and they've got to make that higher. They've they've got
Speaker 2: to have run through after run through, because the idea
Speaker 2: you can just insert an NBC guy into that and
Speaker 2: it's going to work. That would be an executive that
Speaker 2: doesn't understand fit. And I think a lot of times,
Speaker 2: you know the Fox crew or the inside the NBA crew,
Speaker 2: it's hard. Chemistry is hard on these shows. I mean
Speaker 2: Steven A. Smith at ESPN, you know he and Max Kellerman.
Speaker 2: At some point stephen A went public and said, yet
Speaker 2: this just doesn't work. Skipping Shannon worked for a while,
Speaker 2: then it didn't work. Mike and the Band Dog in
Speaker 2: New York. I listened to them for years. I thought
Speaker 2: it was really good. I could tell on the air
Speaker 2: when they got tired of each other. They got real
Speaker 2: snippy at each other, very impatient with each other. You
Speaker 2: could just feel it. It was like you're driving in
Speaker 2: the car on the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. I'm driving,
Speaker 2: you know, going to the city or coming out, and
Speaker 2: I'm listening for an hour and a half. I got
Speaker 2: a long listen, and I'm like, I'm I'm not sure
Speaker 2: this sounds right, and I just I think my overall
Speaker 2: point on this is inside. The NBA works. Yes, Charles
Speaker 2: is the star, but it works because of chemistry. It's terrific.
Speaker 2: They all like each other, they all respect each other.
Speaker 2: And it's like an NBA locker room. It takes one
Speaker 2: turd to ruin it because it's a you're flying together,
Speaker 2: you're eating together, you're hanging out. It's not like an
Speaker 2: NFL locker room. Offense goes here, defense goes there. Baseball,
Speaker 2: you know, during the game, a third of the roster
Speaker 2: is down in the bullpen, manet. You get these crews,
Speaker 2: you got four or five guys. One bad fit blows
Speaker 2: it up, blows it up, and I think they've done
Speaker 2: such a good job. It is to me. During the
Speaker 2: regular season, I generally like the show more than the games. Now,
Speaker 2: once the playoffs start, I'm into the games. But I
Speaker 2: think you can't. People are gonna watch the NFL regardless
Speaker 2: of how good or bad the shows are. But the
Speaker 2: NBA is different. It's a long regular season, even the players,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of apathy inside. The NBA in my lifetime,
Speaker 2: is very unique. We're all stick around for that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can think Fox does a great job at NBC
Speaker 2: in the NFL is not quite as good. But I'm
Speaker 2: watching the games. That's not the case inside the NBA
Speaker 2: gets me to a TV during the regular season when
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm not sure the players even care. All right,
Speaker 2: NBA Playoffs and full swing. Jason Timp, host of Hoops Tonight,
Speaker 2: is joining us.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I was watching the tea Wolves and Nuggets, and I
Speaker 2: thought this would be a very long series. I said,
Speaker 2: six or seven, I'll take Denver. But I was watching
Speaker 2: Charles Barkley after and his interpretation was sort of mine,
Speaker 2: which is, you watched these guys play Minnesota's bigger, Minnesota's deeper,
Speaker 2: and there was clearly an athletic advantage. They're just they're
Speaker 2: more athletic there. I mean, some of that's aunt, maybe
Speaker 2: a large part of its aunt. But Jokic isn't highly
Speaker 2: ath what you would call dynamic. He's just a great
Speaker 2: basketball player. Jamal Murray again, he never made an All
Speaker 2: Star team. I wouldn't call him dynamic. He's a shot maker,
Speaker 2: Michael porter Is Gordon is just a relentless energy guy.
Speaker 2: But when I watched that series, and I don't want
Speaker 2: to overreact, but I was like, oh, they can throw
Speaker 2: a lot of bodies at Denver, a lot of bodies.
Speaker 2: They go about eight deep. You know, there's not much
Speaker 2: of a Denver bench. In my take is it's hard
Speaker 2: to win when they're deeper, they're more athletic. And part
Speaker 2: of this is and I said this about two weeks ago,
Speaker 2: I said, it's an inflection point for Aunt Edwards. Is
Speaker 2: he going to become dominique spectacular but can't get through
Speaker 2: these profoundly deep teams, no titles and we just have
Speaker 2: great highlights or Jordan that you got to win two
Speaker 2: to three or four, and it's like, now this is
Speaker 2: the face of the league. And when Bey an Ant
Speaker 2: feel like those are the two guys that should be
Speaker 2: the face of the league. So this series, to me,
Speaker 2: it's a lot bigger than people think. It's not just
Speaker 2: well Ant goes down. It's like Denver may have a
Speaker 2: bench at some point, you know, like this Denver team.
Speaker 2: You beat them now, they'll probably have to react to you. Also,
Speaker 2: if Minnesota loses, they may not keep Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 2: So this twin Towers thing, although it's worked, it may
Speaker 2: be more experimental if they got doused in five games
Speaker 2: in this series. So I feel like I'm watching this
Speaker 2: in fascinating inflection point with ant as he is. Now
Speaker 2: if they get to the finals, they match up very
Speaker 2: well with Boston. You're like, is this Jordan's first title?
Speaker 2: Am I overreacting to it?
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I mean, it's been the best
Speaker 1: player in the playoffs so far. He's literally been the
Speaker 1: best guy in the best he watched he soundly out
Speaker 1: played Nikola Yokic last night. Like It's funny when you're
Speaker 1: watching the games live, there's always like kind of a
Speaker 1: narrative that tends to take shape, and there was a
Speaker 1: lot of focus on like, oh, Jamal Murray is struggling.
Speaker 1: Oh nas Reed had a scoring run in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 1: Like you focus on these specific things. But I went
Speaker 1: back and looked through the tape and as I watched,
Speaker 1: one of the biggest things that stood out to me
Speaker 1: is Jokic just didn't play very well, he had seven turnovers.
Speaker 1: He was completely caught off guard by a lot of
Speaker 1: like the pressure that Minnesota brought. They were kicking him
Speaker 1: up full court randomly. He had a travel in the
Speaker 1: back court where nas Reed randomly picked him up in
Speaker 1: the full court there, Rudy Gobert was kind of in
Speaker 1: his head, kind of stunting, faking like he was gonna
Speaker 1: step up, and then he'd get back and deflect that
Speaker 1: lob pass to Aaron Gordon. Yokic had a bad night.
Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards came in and just completely cleaned house, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of times, like I look at it
Speaker 1: and it's like, if you're expecting Jamal Murray to just
Speaker 1: break out against the best perimeter defender in the league
Speaker 1: in Jada McDaniels, that's probably not gonna happen. But Jokic
Speaker 1: does have the ability to flip the script. In this series,
Speaker 1: he can be much better. And then one of the
Speaker 1: big things Michael Malone was talking about after the game,
Speaker 1: he really didn't like their defensive effort in the second half,
Speaker 1: and generally, I agree, they let they get They let
Speaker 1: it get way too comfortable in the mid range when
Speaker 1: he was isolating those smaller Denver guards and he's so
Speaker 1: dead he's hitting that fade away at like fifty percent,
Speaker 1: So like you can't you can't leave him there. You
Speaker 1: have to get out and like kind of crowd him more.
Speaker 1: And so I think a better defensive effort to do
Speaker 1: a better job containing Aunt and then Jokic actually in
Speaker 1: inflicting himself on the series as the best player in
Speaker 1: the world, can flip the script. But to your point,
Speaker 1: it is absolutely an inflection point because if Minnesota wins
Speaker 1: this series and Ant out plays Jokic, then he just
Speaker 1: beat the defending champs and the best player in the
Speaker 1: world without home court advantage and without a legitimate co star.
Speaker 2: I mean, and if you look Jason, that the face
Speaker 2: of the league right now is really Tatum's personality. He
Speaker 2: really is a giver. He's never a taker. You almost
Speaker 2: have to push him nudge him to take, so he doesn't.
Speaker 2: He looks like to me, he loves being an All star,
Speaker 2: making good money and winning games. He doesn't have any
Speaker 2: real agenda to be the face of the league. Jokic
Speaker 2: mostly European guys are not interested. So like it's open
Speaker 2: for Ant. Wemby's not there yet. Jokic isn't interested. You know,
Speaker 2: Giannis has never really moved the needle in terms of
Speaker 2: like ratings and beads. Not healthy. So as I'm watching
Speaker 2: him first half, he was insane and then and then
Speaker 2: he was very quiet in the third. But as I'm
Speaker 2: watching him, I'm like, you know, Jordan had these dead quarters.
Speaker 2: I mean, Michael was classic for when his head would steam,
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, Michael's on one. And then Michael really
Speaker 2: got it. Was like a great baseball pitcher that he
Speaker 2: knew the twelve pitches he had to get people out,
Speaker 2: Like Michael knew gearshift. Lebron's gotten very good at that.
Speaker 2: Like Lebron's always hoping his teammates get the game going,
Speaker 2: and if they don't, then he steps in and then
Speaker 2: at the seven minute mark they get him out. But
Speaker 2: I watched Aunt and I'm like, don't be too critical
Speaker 2: of him. Twenty five points in an NBA game and
Speaker 2: a half is a lot of work. That's a lot
Speaker 2: of energy. And then in the second half, you're like, uh,
Speaker 2: first of all, dumb tech talk about that all day.
Speaker 2: But my take was my take was kind of like
Speaker 2: it's there for the taking. It feels like Denver's not
Speaker 2: equipped on the bench. You know, they could die to
Speaker 2: have a six man who could play twenty minutes to defense.
Speaker 2: This may be the moment. All these great stars have moments.
Speaker 2: It took Jordan years and years. The difference is Jordan
Speaker 2: had like iconic teams pissed and Celtics in front of them.
Speaker 2: Denver hasn't risen that. So as good as the West is, Jason,
Speaker 2: it feels like this is the moment to seize it.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely there for the taking. Again, I still think
Speaker 1: Denver is going to win this series. I certainly think
Speaker 1: it's way too early to just to bail on them entirely.
Speaker 1: An important element to that game too, as they spotted
Speaker 1: Minnesota in eighteen to four lead and Michael Malon talked
Speaker 1: after the game. Jamal Murray didn't practice all week because
Speaker 1: of his calf. Cacp's got a bad ankle. So they
Speaker 1: are easing their way into the series in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. Also generally just a little brief story, like
Speaker 1: I play a lot of pickup basketball, but then during
Speaker 1: the summer, a lot of the college kids around town
Speaker 1: and the old guys who play overseas, they come home
Speaker 1: and I work out with them, and there's always like
Speaker 1: an adjustment for me going from lower level competition to
Speaker 1: higher level competition. And there's no doubt that Minnesota is
Speaker 1: a much higher level defense than the Lakers were. And
Speaker 1: so there's gonna be a little bit of like a, oh,
Speaker 1: that pass, I need to put a little more on it.
Speaker 1: I need to be more accurate. I can't be as
Speaker 1: sloppy with my handle. This shot that I got off
Speaker 1: against Austin Reeves, I won't be able to get off
Speaker 1: against Jane McDaniels. Like all these there's gonna be an
Speaker 1: adjustment period for Denver in this series to kind of
Speaker 1: get used to that offense. That said, as far as
Speaker 1: Aunt goes like it, it's there's still so much room
Speaker 1: for him to improve because that quiet third quarter Ant
Speaker 1: got tired. You could tell Ant got tired in that game. Yes,
Speaker 1: so there's gonna be an energy management piece that he
Speaker 1: figures out. There's gonna be like a reading the floor
Speaker 1: better piece that he figures out. There's like there's a
Speaker 1: little bully ball possession on Reggie Jackson where he just
Speaker 1: walked It was a play he got the tech. He
Speaker 1: walked him right underneath the rim and put it in.
Speaker 1: It was the easiest bucket he got all night. Like,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a point where he realizes all these
Speaker 1: guards can't guard him, and he starts destroying people even
Speaker 1: closer to the rim, and so this guy's the limit
Speaker 1: for him. I got in trouble with Celtics fans for
Speaker 1: comparing the two of them. It was a mail bag question.
Speaker 1: But then I started thinking about it, I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: this is this is a real thing here, this is
Speaker 1: who's the next great American player? Because there is something
Speaker 1: to be said about being the best American player in
Speaker 1: the NBA from a marketability standpoint, right sure, Like there's
Speaker 1: a reason why a huge portion of my listeners are overseas.
Speaker 1: It's because the best players in the league are all
Speaker 1: from overseas, and so they've got these huge fan bases
Speaker 1: from Serbia and in the Philippines and things like that.
Speaker 1: There's all these guys that are that are supporting these players,
Speaker 1: and we need an American star that can come up
Speaker 1: and kind of take the mantle. And to your point,
Speaker 1: like Jason Tatum has, he just doesn't quite have the
Speaker 1: personality for it. But the biggest piece and the main
Speaker 1: reason why I think Ant is better than him has
Speaker 1: to do with the athleticism piece. Ant can have Bradley
Speaker 1: Beal on the wing and just utterly blow by him
Speaker 1: off the dribble and then dunk on Kevin Durant like
Speaker 1: he's not even there. And then it's not to say
Speaker 1: that Jason Tatum hasn't had big dunks in his career
Speaker 1: because he's got great size, but his first step is
Speaker 1: not nearly as dynamic as Anthony Edwards is, and so
Speaker 1: when he faces a really good defender in a late
Speaker 1: game situation, he can struggle to get to his spots. Sometimes.
Speaker 1: Aunt never struggles getting to his spot like he's gonna
Speaker 1: get a good look up. It's just a question of
Speaker 1: whether or not he can make it. And to his credit,
Speaker 1: the two big things that he's figured out that have
Speaker 1: been his inflection between the Dominique and MJ kind of
Speaker 1: like fork in the road, the split for him has
Speaker 1: been he's been better at reading the floor. He was
Speaker 1: the guy who got Nasriy going last night. It was
Speaker 1: the banked in three that was a kickout from Ant
Speaker 1: when his man helped the driving, and one on the
Speaker 1: baseline that was the skip pass from Ant. When he
Speaker 1: was reading a pick and roll coverage. And then the
Speaker 1: second piece of it is that jump shooting piece. He's
Speaker 1: deadly in that fourteen to eighteen foot range, and so
Speaker 1: he has a shot he can go to where it's
Speaker 1: like this is gonna go in a majority of the time.
Speaker 1: It gives him like a certain level of resilience in
Speaker 1: the playoffs. And so I just think I think he's
Speaker 1: just better. I think he's the best American player in
Speaker 1: the league of that generation, and I think he has
Speaker 1: a chance to take that mantle well.
Speaker 2: To be the best player. It's like being the best
Speaker 2: country Western star. It's not just your songs are popular
Speaker 2: and easy to dance to. There's often something that's really
Speaker 2: touches people. If you look at the faces of the league.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he was a face of a league,
Speaker 2: but the first player that caught my attention in the
Speaker 2: seventies was Doctor j Nobody played like that, right, nobody
Speaker 2: played like that his hand size. And then after that
Speaker 2: was Magic Johnson. We'd never had a six eight and
Speaker 2: a half point guard. And then it was Larry Bird
Speaker 2: alongside Magic. We'd never had a forward easily be the
Speaker 2: best shooter, and passer in the league, like he didn't play,
Speaker 2: he played like a two guard. And then you go
Speaker 2: into Shack. Okay, that's there's nothing been that powerful. Big
Speaker 2: guys don't run the floor. And then you know, and
Speaker 2: before him, it's Michael the greatest player of all time
Speaker 2: with great flair. Kobe was never already the face of
Speaker 2: the league, but was like Michael light. Then you go
Speaker 2: into Lebron, arguably the greatest player, the great Swiss army
Speaker 2: knife that does everything differently. So all those players were like,
Speaker 2: to some degree, a little bit of unicorns athletically or
Speaker 2: they had a dimension to their game. They still show
Speaker 2: Doctor Jay's dunk against Michael Cooper, it's still the great.
Speaker 2: It's dunk in the history in a game. It's the seventies.
Speaker 2: It's fifty years ago with all these athletes. So with
Speaker 2: ants skit, I've watched Jason Tatum live three times. I've
Speaker 2: watched them a hundred times. He's very good. It's not
Speaker 2: historically unique looking. He's just really clever and really smooth,
Speaker 2: good two way player. Ant does stuff and you're like, okay,
Speaker 2: sorry to put the drink down, use I got to
Speaker 2: watch the replay on that, Like whole. Even NBA guys
Speaker 2: are like, whoa, whoa. You see him come off the bench.
Speaker 2: So Wemby has some of that. Wemby could block eight
Speaker 2: blocks a game, you know, I mean, he could have
Speaker 2: a stretch like nobody looks like that. So I do
Speaker 2: think Ant's advantage is there's a lot of wow stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember when Shaq came in the league.
Speaker 2: Jerry Tarkani and I covered him at YOUNLV. He told me,
Speaker 2: when Shaq was a sophomore, I was at a place
Speaker 2: called the Late Jerry Tarkani and I covered him in
Speaker 2: Vegas at a place called Sharks or Tarks or Sharks,
Speaker 2: and we were sitting at a bar and me and
Speaker 2: a guy named John Henderson, a retired sports writer now
Speaker 2: in Italy, and he said, there's a kid named Shaquille
Speaker 2: O'Neil at el Shoe and he goes, I know you've
Speaker 2: seen high lights. He's going to be the greatest basketball
Speaker 2: player you've ever seen when he plays. And you know,
Speaker 2: Jerry was a very good recruiter, and you know, and
Speaker 2: he just said, there's never been anything like him, And
Speaker 2: that's kind of the sentence for the faces of the league.
Speaker 2: There's never been anything like him. And my take is
Speaker 2: he's a little Dominique, a little Michael. I mean, what's
Speaker 2: his comp that feels like the right comps.
Speaker 1: He's bigger and stronger than the other two guards that
Speaker 1: came before him too, Like he's got a little bit
Speaker 1: of like the downhill force that you saw from Dwayne Wade,
Speaker 1: but he's bigger and a better shooter. Right, He's got
Speaker 1: a lot of He's got some of the like the
Speaker 1: footwork stuff from the mid to high post. But again,
Speaker 1: like he's he's got like a strength and a power
Speaker 1: element to his game that even MJ and Kobe didn't have.
Speaker 1: So like, in a weird way, this is the beautiful
Speaker 1: thing about basketball history is every every player, it's very
Speaker 1: rare to have a guy like Kobe who's like almost
Speaker 1: almost the spitting image of the guy he was trying
Speaker 1: to be like. Right, Like Tobe and MJ were so similar,
Speaker 1: Ant's kind of got his own unique flare on it.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like Dwayne Wade meets better jump shooting
Speaker 1: meets the body of a middle linebacker in the NFL.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's hard, it's hard to describe, but
Speaker 1: like and then again, the big piece of it is
Speaker 1: like this guy's going to Kevin Durant and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're my favorite player, but you know I'm busting your
Speaker 1: ass right. It's like this weird like shit talking mixed
Speaker 1: with respectful mixed with like incredible aggression. But he's also
Speaker 1: just got this huge personality and that to me is
Speaker 1: a big part of the marketability element, where like I
Speaker 1: could see him being a superstar in the league for decades.
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Speaker 2: You see this in all sports where you know somebody
Speaker 2: struggles in postseason. Dak Prescott has multiple times he's still
Speaker 2: going to get paid in the NFL. It's not like
Speaker 2: it doesn't happen in the NFL. But it is interesting.
Speaker 2: In the NFL, if you can't stay healthy and you're
Speaker 2: always hurt at the end of the year, teams move
Speaker 2: off you because they can move off you. NBA teams
Speaker 2: it's not that easy, right, there's the contracts have to match.
Speaker 2: It's harder to trade really good players in the NBA.
Speaker 2: But the Clippers remind me of the friend who's fun
Speaker 2: to hang out with, but if you ever call them
Speaker 2: to go to the airport of the hospital, they just
Speaker 2: don't show up. Like it's the same. I mean, I
Speaker 2: never know if Qawi is playing. Harden and Westbrook scare
Speaker 2: me to death in the postseason. I think Paul George
Speaker 2: is underrated. But as I watch them again, is I
Speaker 2: feel like the Clipper sort of deserved this. Like they
Speaker 2: re signed Kawhi, most teams were like, no, like we're out.
Speaker 2: It's one thing if you're injured, Jason, it's another if
Speaker 2: you're nonverbal, And I mean, you're not sure at three
Speaker 2: forty five as a head coach if he's gonna be
Speaker 2: in the mood to play. That's why Popovich just said,
Speaker 2: I'm out. I'm done. I want to feel bad for
Speaker 2: teams that get eliminated due to injuries, but I'm kind
Speaker 2: of over the Clippers. I mean, is that unfair?
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I mean the in the weeks
Speaker 1: leading up to the first round series, we didn't know
Speaker 1: whether or not he was gonna play. Neither did the
Speaker 1: neither did the Clippers staff. Like at those questions to
Speaker 1: ty Louie's like, I don't know, we'll see. I don't know,
Speaker 1: we'll see, Like he just he just doesn't know, right,
Speaker 1: And honestly, I feel bad because if you're a Clippers fan,
Speaker 1: I don't even have any sort of advice or any
Speaker 1: sort of like situation that that that would lead you
Speaker 1: to have an optimistic perspective moving forward. I understand why
Speaker 1: you'd run it back next season, in particular because brand
Speaker 1: new arena. You can't go into the brand new arena
Speaker 1: with the rebuilding situation, right, And I thought one of
Speaker 1: the specific things that this shine to light on is
Speaker 1: Paul George, Paul George and James Harden is not enough either.
Speaker 1: It's been one of the biggest things that stood out
Speaker 1: to me from this postseason run. The stars that have
Speaker 1: real physical gifts, and I mean like a superpower of
Speaker 1: some kind in terms of their physical advantages, they are thriving.
Speaker 1: But the ones that are relying almost solely on skill
Speaker 1: are really struggling. And I thought that that Maverick series
Speaker 1: was a perfect example of that. Luca's big. He's just
Speaker 1: bigger and stronger than the vast majority of the guys
Speaker 1: he's going against. So he can get a little bit
Speaker 1: of an angle, shoot that gap, bump you with his
Speaker 1: left shoulder, and get to a little short shot in
Speaker 1: the lane that he can make it a high percentage.
Speaker 1: And that's how Luca got going in that series was
Speaker 1: closer to the basket. His pull up jumper was broke
Speaker 1: that entire series. Kyrie Irving he has an elite first step,
Speaker 1: He's super quick, and that in conjunction with his skill
Speaker 1: allows him to get open. James Harden is just a
Speaker 1: better version of D'Angelo Russell. He's a skill guard that
Speaker 1: can't really shake free from people, right. And Paul George
Speaker 1: at this phase in his career is a all you know,
Speaker 1: kind of like not overly quick, not overly fast, skill wing.
Speaker 1: And so when you put elite defenders on them that
Speaker 1: bring physicality. They struggle to beat people off the dribble,
Speaker 1: they struggle to get separation. Whereas the top tier guys,
Speaker 1: we're watching Anthony Edwards just cut everybody to pieces. We're
Speaker 1: watching Yokics get wherever he wants. We're watching Luca get
Speaker 1: wherever he wants. We're watching the elite athletes thrive. And
Speaker 1: so the problem is for the Clippers, why is their
Speaker 1: elite athlete. He's the one guy that has the resilience
Speaker 1: to get to his spots in the postseason. And here
Speaker 1: we are, what four seasons in a row where he's
Speaker 1: not able to finish this grind. And so I don't
Speaker 1: know where you go from here, but at a certain point,
Speaker 1: I think they have to give it one more shot
Speaker 1: just because of the new arena. But I think if
Speaker 1: it goes south next year, you have no choice but
Speaker 1: to do something.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people after Kyrie's performance in
Speaker 2: the series pushing back and saying, well, hey, you guys
Speaker 2: all bailed on him. No, nobody bailed on their belief
Speaker 2: he's the greatest small closer with both hands we've ever seen.
Speaker 2: Nobody bailed on that, right, Like, I still contend that
Speaker 2: you know, Baker Mayfield's one of the top twenty quarterbacks
Speaker 2: in the world. Like today, I think he's a really
Speaker 2: good quarterback. We just had pushback on some of the
Speaker 2: you know, early behavior maturation. Nobody denies that, and with Kyrie,
Speaker 2: my takeaway, it is working now and Luca is obviously great.
Speaker 2: But I do think, and I think we talked about
Speaker 2: this last time, I think they're too lobsided to win
Speaker 2: a title. Like when they win, it's always spectacular. Sometimes
Speaker 2: you have to win boring. Sometimes you just have to,
Speaker 2: Like Denver has mastered winning boring, trailing most of the game.
Speaker 2: The other night, I had this feeling when it was
Speaker 2: they were down two or three with about five minutes ago,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh god, this is just such a Denver game.
Speaker 2: But you know, Minnesota is a different task now. But
Speaker 2: I tend to think teams that need spectacular and Kyrie's spectacular.
Speaker 2: There's not a lot of easy mid range stuff. It's
Speaker 2: all beautiful. Do you consider them Do you consider them
Speaker 2: a title contender in Dallas?
Speaker 1: You know, I pretty much did until the Maxi Cleba injury.
Speaker 1: Maxi Kleiba is vitally important to a specific look that
Speaker 1: they have, which is their small ball look when they
Speaker 1: have Kleiba and PJ. Washington at the four and the
Speaker 1: five next to Derek Jones Junior, Kawhi or excuse me,
Speaker 1: Kyrie and Luka Doncic, they're very versatile defensively to your point,
Speaker 1: like everyone's focused on Kyrie and Luca. Everyone knew Kyrie
Speaker 1: and Luca could do what they could do. The reason
Speaker 1: why Dallas is succeeding is they had a veteran minimum
Speaker 1: signing and Derek Jones Junior, who is a absolute home
Speaker 1: run Like he's just giving them excellent point of attack defense.
Speaker 1: He was the guy who guarded Paul George so well
Speaker 1: in the last series. Andy sitting spot up shots and
Speaker 1: can drive close outs and can run his lane and transition.
Speaker 1: And then PJ. Washington and Maxi Kleiba give them these
Speaker 1: really versatile defensive forwards that can defend at the rim
Speaker 1: and out on them. Specifically for the OKC matchup, it's
Speaker 1: tricky because chet Holmgren is a is a big man
Speaker 1: who can shoot and specifically he'll set screens and then
Speaker 1: pop to the three point line. That is a nightmare
Speaker 1: for drop coverage bigs like Derek Lively, like Daniel Gafford.
Speaker 1: So Maxi Kliba was the was the remedy for that.
Speaker 1: Maxi Klebo is the guy who could switch those screens.
Speaker 1: Maxi Kleba can actually slide his feet and guard shake
Speaker 1: gials with Alexander a little bit, so you can switch
Speaker 1: those screens and things like that. He was a vital
Speaker 1: part of their defense of versatility. His injury is a
Speaker 1: massive loss for that team. I don't want to cut
Speaker 1: them cut them out entirely from this picture, because anybody
Speaker 1: who's made it to the second round certainly has a shot,
Speaker 1: but that that Kliba hit is a big loss for them.
Speaker 2: You know, I was thinking about this flying in. I
Speaker 2: hung out in a park city with my wife this
Speaker 2: weekend of the dogs and snowed again. By the way,
Speaker 2: as I was driving to the airport, a snowstorm. It's
Speaker 2: like May fifth, So you know, I was thinking about
Speaker 2: this that. You know, there's been a lot of instances
Speaker 2: in my life where a team makes a run. Sacramento
Speaker 2: is like this during the Kobe years, where they make
Speaker 2: a run. They get really close and you think to yourself, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be like an eight year run, and then
Speaker 2: like they have a really bad loss in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: and they're never the same. I mean, Sacramento light the beam,
Speaker 2: I mean, we all felt like this is the beginning
Speaker 2: of something big. Lose to the Warriors, it just didn't
Speaker 2: feel the same this year. These young teams Oklahoma City,
Speaker 2: Minnesota just jumped over them. Indiana jumped over them. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting when I look at the Knicks,
Speaker 2: you can make the argument, hey, they're gonna move Randal,
Speaker 2: They're gonna get somebody in here. It's gonna be great.
Speaker 2: But to get somebody in they're gonna have to get
Speaker 2: rid of a few Josh Hearts. You gotta be very delicate.
Speaker 2: This is a Tibbs team. These betteran guys. They don't
Speaker 2: want to practice like that, they don't want to play
Speaker 2: forty five minutes. So the Knicks are fascinating. I thought
Speaker 2: Philadelphia would win this series. And by the middle of
Speaker 2: Game two, I'm like, oh, yeah, New York's a better team.
Speaker 2: They're winning the boards, they're better late, they're better. It
Speaker 2: just felt like, you know, you watch series and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, we may feel this. By halftime of
Speaker 2: Minnesota Denver, you know, you're like oh, here's a real
Speaker 2: problem here. But what's interesting with the Knicks. I can
Speaker 2: also argue this Jimmy Butler was hurt both day, Mignonnis
Speaker 2: were hurt. Sixers have a shit ton of cap space
Speaker 2: and three potential picks. Indiana's getting better. What a Orlando
Speaker 2: takes a big swing and gets a member of the
Speaker 2: Phoenix Suns right like, do you buy because you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to give up some of those nice maybe a
Speaker 2: villanova guy. They're such a hustle effort team. Is this
Speaker 2: like you can't take it for granted? The East this
Speaker 2: year stinks like its depth is all time bad. Do
Speaker 2: we both believe, Hey, they're just gonna add a Kadie
Speaker 2: or a Paula George and they're gonna take a leap
Speaker 2: or is it a delicate ecosystem there in New York
Speaker 2: and a beat up East in conference and reality may
Speaker 2: smack him in the face next year.
Speaker 1: So a huge part of their identity right now is
Speaker 1: the hustle right like yeah, yet like they like their
Speaker 1: offense kind of reminds me of like the Allen iverson
Speaker 1: seventy six ers teams where Jalen Brunson is kind of
Speaker 1: just totally taking that responsibility on by himself, but it's
Speaker 1: mixed with like, hey, as soon as Jalen shoots, just
Speaker 1: everyone crashed the offensive glass and go get the rebound.
Speaker 1: Like that's basically what it is. And it's like Isaiah
Speaker 1: Hartenstein excellent offensive rebounder, Mitchell Robinson excellent offensive rebounder, Josh
Speaker 1: hart excellent offensive rebounder, Dante DiVincenzo excellent offensive rebounder. That's
Speaker 1: just kind of what they do. So the thing though,
Speaker 1: is like you have to be careful if you include
Speaker 1: somebody like og and Andoby in a trade like that,
Speaker 1: because the physical profile the Knicks is vitally important in
Speaker 1: my opinion, and I think you can get away with
Speaker 1: giving up you know, for instance, like I think if
Speaker 1: I had to choose between giving up Heart and Devincenzo
Speaker 1: in a deal or an og Anobi, I would be
Speaker 1: doing whatever I could to hold onto Og because if
Speaker 1: you get if you get Kevin Durant at this phase
Speaker 1: of his career, older, right, and he's not as like
Speaker 1: physically strong as a guy like og Ananobi, you alter,
Speaker 1: you alter the physical profile of the team to the
Speaker 1: point where you're not as imposing because Og is a
Speaker 1: big part of what you're capable of doing on both
Speaker 1: ends of the floor in terms of that physical identity,
Speaker 1: and so I think they have to be careful. You're
Speaker 1: going to fundamentally change your identity as a basketball team
Speaker 1: by making a deal like that, because you go from
Speaker 1: being the bully, offensive, rebound out, hustle team to now
Speaker 1: we're a classic two star build built on offensive firepower
Speaker 1: and in a little bit more of that kind of like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, overall offensive skill. So you got to find
Speaker 1: a way to kind of toe that line between the
Speaker 1: two because you don't want to lose that toughness identity,
Speaker 1: because that toughness identity is a huge part of how
Speaker 1: you're winning. But I think if they could somehow pull
Speaker 1: in a legitimate scoring forward, someone like a Paul Georgia
Speaker 1: or Kevin Durant without giving up that that ogi in
Speaker 1: an obie slot, I think you could be in good shape.
Speaker 1: This is where it's an advantage that you have the
Speaker 1: picks that you have, and then you have as many
Speaker 1: good players as you have, because if you had to
Speaker 1: give up of Mitchell Robinson, you have Isaiah Hartenstein. If
Speaker 1: you have to give up an Isaiah Hartenstein, you have
Speaker 1: Mitchell Robinson. If you have to give up a Dante DiVincenzo,
Speaker 1: you know who's a hell of a player. Deuce McBride
Speaker 1: like that, and he's a guy that can guard on
Speaker 1: the perimeter and do a lot of that stuff. So
Speaker 1: like they have enough depth to where they can give
Speaker 1: up from different spots. But if I'm Phoenix and you're
Speaker 1: like you want Kevin Durant, I'm like I want og Anobi,
Speaker 1: and so it's gonna be tough. It's gonna be a
Speaker 1: hard negotiation. Yeah, But if they can somehow keep Jalen
Speaker 1: og one of the centers and then get one of
Speaker 1: those big forwards, that's a really good team. That's a
Speaker 1: team that you'd be probably picking out East.
Speaker 2: Well, and you live in Arizona, and we've talked about this,
Speaker 2: is that you can get more for Booker. But remember
Speaker 2: Phoenix was not good pre Chris Paul. So he's not
Speaker 2: a leader guy and he can't carry a franchise. And
Speaker 2: then you disappointed this year with Durant and Beale around Booker,
Speaker 2: there's your classic. You know, cat shoot, I don't think
Speaker 2: he's this great athlete, he's just a he's a dependable
Speaker 2: twenty five, twenty six at night, he can be really
Speaker 2: streaky and get into the thirty five for long stretches,
Speaker 2: like he's a crazy streak shooter. But I think you
Speaker 2: make the mistake if you like in Orlando, if Orlando
Speaker 2: made a move Bonkaro's you're one to me, it feels
Speaker 2: like and Booker comes in is a really good too.
Speaker 2: But I want another score at the forward, you know,
Speaker 2: another some size, some length. So like if you're Phoenix
Speaker 2: now Bill and Kevin Durant, well, if you get rid
Speaker 2: of Booker, I got to get some young players over
Speaker 2: here because those guys are gonna miss some spots. Although
Speaker 2: Durant played a ton this year. So my take is
Speaker 2: your Phoenix, you can bring it all back, but there
Speaker 2: are issues. You don't have a classic point guard, you
Speaker 2: don't have much of a bench, so those are real issues.
Speaker 2: You can keep bringing stuff back, but it's like at
Speaker 2: some point you have holes, right, we see, like Milwaukee,
Speaker 2: you can bring it all back, and they may have
Speaker 2: to because they don't have they don't have a lot
Speaker 2: of assets, and this is an old they're all locked up.
Speaker 2: I don't think that many people want I think Dame,
Speaker 2: you could move in gi honest, but they don't want
Speaker 2: to move those two. So my takeaway is, you watch
Speaker 2: a lot of Suns basketball, who would you move? Where
Speaker 2: would you move them? Because it feels like to me,
Speaker 2: people are gonna make They're going to get more phone
Speaker 2: calls than any team in the league because there's a
Speaker 2: lot of New York Knicks and Orlando's out there looking
Speaker 2: at Phoenix thinking it ended poorly. Yeah, they they want
Speaker 2: to get out of stuff. They don't want to say
Speaker 2: it publicly. Phoenix is saying, hey, we're bringing the band
Speaker 2: back together, but it's a flawed team. Vocal likes Biggs,
Speaker 2: it's not built for him.
Speaker 1: What would you do you have to say that to
Speaker 1: You can't be like, yeah, oh yeah, fire sale this summer,
Speaker 1: you come and get them. But like the as far
Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, so much of this comes
Speaker 1: down to how you viewed Booker, and a lot of
Speaker 1: Suns fans view him as like a bona fide franchise cornerstone.
Speaker 1: And the point the thing they point to there is
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one season. But it's like, okay, hold
Speaker 1: on a second, let's let's filter through that. The conference
Speaker 1: finalists out West was a team led by Paul George Okay,
Speaker 1: without Kawhi Leonard and Trey Young made the conference finals
Speaker 1: out East, like it was they won. The Bucks won
Speaker 1: that series with Gianna said in a hyper extended knee
Speaker 1: over the last couple of games. So like, really that
Speaker 1: was the weird COVID season where all the good teams
Speaker 1: got hurt. All the good teams got hurt. The Lakers
Speaker 1: got hurt, the Nuggets got hurt. He got hurt. Like
Speaker 1: everyone was hurt ye in that season. So like it
Speaker 1: was kind of this gap year. Totally legitimate championship for
Speaker 1: the Bucks, but like the Sun's getting to the finals,
Speaker 1: I think got them to believe in Devin Booker as
Speaker 1: this like franchise cornerstone. I look at Devin Booker more
Speaker 1: as like the Kyrie Irving type of archetype. If I
Speaker 1: could put him next to a real a franchise player
Speaker 1: and he can just focus on being a late game
Speaker 1: shot maker, slash guy that can spell your star for
Speaker 1: stretches and run the offense, that's the kind of fit
Speaker 1: that I like. And so when I look at the
Speaker 1: Sun situation, Bradley Beal, I think is a really good player,
Speaker 1: but his trade value is low because he's older, injury prone,
Speaker 1: and on the long term deal that pays him a
Speaker 1: shit ton of money. Right, Kevin Gurant really good player,
Speaker 1: but old and just in a situation where like he
Speaker 1: doesn't have as much value around the league. Devin Booker
Speaker 1: is a guy that you can trade and get a
Speaker 1: Hall and so Hall. Yeah, And so what I was
Speaker 1: pitching is like, embrace, like have the self awareness to
Speaker 1: embrace the fact that Devin Booker's not gonna be your
Speaker 1: franchise cornerstone and then be like, Okay, well, how do
Speaker 1: we turn this situation into something more fun. I would
Speaker 1: call Orlando and I'd be like, Hey, you got Dev,
Speaker 1: you got Palo Boncaro, but you just lost a series
Speaker 1: to the Calves because nobody can create a shot other
Speaker 1: than Palo, and no one can make jumpers. So like
Speaker 1: you need somebody that can come in and just be
Speaker 1: like a skill guard next to Paloon Caaro. And so
Speaker 1: if I would call them and I'd be like, I
Speaker 1: want Jalen Suggs, I want Jonathan Isaac, and I want
Speaker 1: Wendell Carter Junior. That's a lot that is a hal
Speaker 1: Those are three really good.
Speaker 2: Hey, Uggs was viewed as a bust six months ago.
Speaker 1: Exactly into Suggs his credit, He's turned himself into one
Speaker 1: of the best permitter defenders in the league and a
Speaker 1: good three point shooter, right Like, He's a very valuable archetype.
Speaker 1: So now if I'm this, I'm looking at it. And
Speaker 1: by the way, you might be able to even coax
Speaker 1: Orlando and to throwing you a draft pick or two
Speaker 1: in that deal. Who knows, depending on how that conversation
Speaker 1: would go. But then I look at it and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I've got Jalen Suggs, an elite point of attack defender,
Speaker 1: something Phoenix did not have last year. I've got Bradley
Speaker 1: Beal Steele is still a high powered number two. I've
Speaker 1: got Kevin Durant Jonathan Isaac, two really rangy long wings
Speaker 1: that can do a lot defensively. And I'm going from
Speaker 1: Yusuf Nurkic an old a slow footed, big center, to
Speaker 1: Wendell Carter Junior, who is a big, strong, athletic young
Speaker 1: center who can shoot the three ball. And so it
Speaker 1: kind of creates like a more fun Phoenix Suns team.
Speaker 1: And it's just an acknowledgment of the reality that you
Speaker 1: weren't going to be able to rebuild around Booker and
Speaker 1: then go into these series with him as the best player,
Speaker 1: because like, if you go into a series Devin Booker
Speaker 1: is your best player, or into a playoff run, you're
Speaker 1: going to run into a lot of teams that are
Speaker 1: better players than Devin Booker. You just are. And so's
Speaker 1: that problem's not going away. And if I'm Orlando, I'm
Speaker 1: looking at it like Hollow's a franchise cornerstone. But clearly this,
Speaker 1: clearly this build where it's like we're big and strong
Speaker 1: and athletic, but nobody can shoot, no one can dribble,
Speaker 1: no one, they can't shoot. That's not working either, And
Speaker 1: so I look at that as like we'll figure out
Speaker 1: the rest later. Give me Devin Booker at age twenty seven,
Speaker 1: next next to my young star who just adds twenty
Speaker 1: seven points per game in a seven game series against
Speaker 1: an elite defense when no one else on his team
Speaker 1: could make anything and he had to do everything. It
Speaker 1: was a really impressive series from Palad. He's got a
Speaker 1: lot of that like physical imposition on the game that
Speaker 1: is super valuable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that it's a really interesting trade because I think.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think what Orlando could provide is what
Speaker 2: Phoenix needs. And I just I thought it was going
Speaker 2: to be better. But the more I watched Phoenix, and
Speaker 2: I watched them a lot, I'm like, Yep, too much
Speaker 2: duplication doesn't work. Need more size, need a better wing defender.
Speaker 2: They just gotta make moves. Yeah, I've said this all
Speaker 2: the time in the NFL. It's okay to make mistakes,
Speaker 2: just don't double down on them. Don't convince yourself Daniel
Speaker 2: Jones and the Giants as a top ten quarterback. That's
Speaker 2: the mistake, not saying, hey, we missed a draft pick.
Speaker 2: Everybody misses on draft picks. I want to talk about
Speaker 2: Darvin Ham first. I because I said this the other day.
Speaker 2: Listen is for years and years you hear Warrior fans
Speaker 2: banging on Steve Kerr, where's Kamingo, where's Wiseman. Well, they
Speaker 2: want a sophisticated offense that's lightning speed and to bring
Speaker 2: guys out of the G league high school insertom when
Speaker 2: you're trying to, by the way, refine them as players.
Speaker 2: They're just raw, I mean, just sand papering these players.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I learned this offense playing with Steph Curry
Speaker 2: and Draymond Green. Is that's that's calculus. You're not talking
Speaker 2: about Orlando's offense, right, the all guys they're all growing together.
Speaker 2: So people banged on curR for years about you're not
Speaker 2: getting the young guys in, And it's like Steve knows
Speaker 2: what he's doing. He sees the film, he's at practice
Speaker 2: every day. Give him credit. And I don't think Darvin
Speaker 2: Ham as a rookie head coach is at that level.
Speaker 2: But where I'll defend him is that like when you
Speaker 2: faced Denver, Denver's won twelve or thirteen times. If you
Speaker 2: win twelve out of thirteen games in a baseball series,
Speaker 2: you know Yankees have on the twins forever. There's probably
Speaker 2: a reason your back ends bad. You don't have the power,
Speaker 2: and there's something you're missing, a component. You know, the
Speaker 2: Yankees have better starting pitching, whatever it is. And I
Speaker 2: look at Denver and the Lakers and the four best
Speaker 2: players for the Nuggets never really have a terrible game,
Speaker 2: Like Murray can play like crap in the first half,
Speaker 2: but it'll have a great fourth. Porter will eventually hit
Speaker 2: big shots. Even KCP rarely is bad for four quarters.
Speaker 2: But Ruey can disappear, Delo has disappeared. Anthony Davis because
Speaker 2: he works so darn hard on the defensive end sometimes
Speaker 2: you know, sort of regresses offensively late. And so I
Speaker 2: look at it and I think, oh God, I watched
Speaker 2: the Lakers lead for seventy percent of it, but they
Speaker 2: just have guys in their rotation that disappear, and then
Speaker 2: Anthony and Lebron have literally like play harder minute more minutes.
Speaker 2: So I look at it and I think to myself,
Speaker 2: you got to get out of substitution patterns. We're not
Speaker 2: at practice. Who does he trust? Who doesn't he I'd
Speaker 2: bring Darvin Ham back, but I mean, Laker fans are
Speaker 2: one hundred percent that he's a bum that he can't coach,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, am I missing something? Is he that
Speaker 2: bad of a coach?
Speaker 1: So he shouldn't have been put in this particular situation,
Speaker 1: which is where everything really comes back to the front office.
Speaker 1: Darbenham should should have been given a situation where he
Speaker 1: could kind of learn how to coach on the fly
Speaker 1: without as much pressure as there was in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: To be clear, and I heard your opening rant the
Speaker 1: day after Darvingham got fired and I totally agree with
Speaker 1: everything you said. So many teams rushed to blame the coach.
Speaker 1: It's actually one of my biggest pet peeves in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Every fan base hates their coach. It's the craziest everyone,
Speaker 1: the Warriors, the Warriors. I've even seen Heat fans complain
Speaker 1: about Spolsal's rotation like it is. It is a super
Speaker 1: common thing around the league. So I want to be clear,
Speaker 1: the Lakers lost to Denver because their players weren't as
Speaker 1: good as Denver's players. Goes, that is it is. That
Speaker 1: is absolutely what happened in that series. I actually thought
Speaker 1: it was super fascinating that coming into that season, you
Speaker 1: and I talked about how, like, hey, Ruy plays the
Speaker 1: same position as Lebron, Delo plays the same position as Austin,
Speaker 1: those are redundancies. They need to trade those guys. And
Speaker 1: who were the two guys that let them down in
Speaker 1: that series? Ruey and Dilo, Like those are the two guys.
Speaker 1: So you like that, like the front office is why
Speaker 1: they lost to Denver. That said, it became abundantly clear
Speaker 1: this season that Darvin was not ready. And there are
Speaker 1: two main things that I want to hit on, and
Speaker 1: I'll be quick one. He grossly mismanaged the talent on
Speaker 1: the roster. Here's the basic stat that will send this
Speaker 1: point home. In the thirteen game stretch after the n
Speaker 1: season tournament when they went three to ten, which is
Speaker 1: literally the reason they had to play Denver in the
Speaker 1: first round and fight through the playing tournament, D'Angel Russell,
Speaker 1: who as as flawed as he is, is certainly their
Speaker 1: third or fourth best player. D'Angelo Russell was playing as
Speaker 1: many as Cam Reddish and taking as many shots as
Speaker 1: Torrean prints. That was what was happening in that thirteen
Speaker 1: game stretch post in season tournamenthouse. Well, yeah, when you
Speaker 1: are playing, and here's the thing I understand, when there's
Speaker 1: like a sixth or seventh man in your rotation that's
Speaker 1: struggling and you need to jockey the rotation rack. Cau
Speaker 1: Darvin said. He leaked to the press like when a guy,
Speaker 1: what's the word you phrase you use, shits the bad
Speaker 1: ten games in a row. You gotta do something. Here's
Speaker 1: the problem, though, what you don't do is go, h,
Speaker 1: Derek White, that was a rough ten game stretch. You
Speaker 1: know what, Let's take him out of the line up.
Speaker 1: Let's put Peyton Pritchard in there, like, that's not what
Speaker 1: you do. Like you play your best players, your best
Speaker 1: players get more leeway. You don't pull D'Angelo Russell and
Speaker 1: heavily limit his usage in minute opportunities on the floor
Speaker 1: for Cam Reddish, who literally is what on his fourth
Speaker 1: team in five years, Like it just it was an
Speaker 1: asonine misallocation of resources and it directly led to the
Speaker 1: situation they were in the standings. Everybody knew their five
Speaker 1: best players were Lebron, ad Austin, Dilo Rui. As soon
Speaker 1: as he started playing all five of them big minutes
Speaker 1: and starting, they took off and won most of their games.
Speaker 1: That was That was a gross That was a negligent
Speaker 1: management of talent. Right. The second piece of it, and
Speaker 1: the important part to understand here is the context of
Speaker 1: why he got hired right around the time Darvin got hired.
Speaker 1: Who was the big coach that everybody wanted after the
Speaker 1: situation what happened in Boston. He was emy Udoka. Everyone's
Speaker 1: like man emay Udoka took the Celtics and turned them
Speaker 1: from like kind of a soft group into like a
Speaker 1: really tough group. In that twenty twenty one season, remember,
Speaker 1: and so there was all of this like or twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two season. I should say basically what people were
Speaker 1: thinking was, let's get a former player who can like
Speaker 1: look eye to eye with these guys and hold them accountable.
Speaker 1: And the main issue that Darvin am had, and I
Speaker 1: would say this was a bigger issue than anything having
Speaker 1: to do with the rotation. He was too much of
Speaker 1: a benevolent motivator. He never held those guys accountable on
Speaker 1: a day to day basis. They'd have games which would
Speaker 1: have unacceptable efforts and then he'd go and be like,
Speaker 1: you know, marathon, not a sprint, you know, or just
Speaker 1: we're just in this for the long haul. This is
Speaker 1: all gonna be fine. And when you watched I was
Speaker 1: it was jarring in that Denver series to watch the
Speaker 1: juxtaposition of Michael Malone actively coaching on the sideline. Guy
Speaker 1: makes a mistake, it's a timeout, he's getting screamed at
Speaker 1: in the huddle, he's going. After Game four, he went
Speaker 1: and ripped them all a new one in the postgame
Speaker 1: presser for not protecting the paint two games in a row.
Speaker 1: And then Darvin Ham is just sitting chilling on the
Speaker 1: sideline he's a very passive coach and he never held
Speaker 1: players accountable. And so when you look at those two teams,
Speaker 1: I've got a Denver team that has really sharpened their execution.
Speaker 1: They never let go of the rope for more than
Speaker 1: a possession or two before they regained composure. And there
Speaker 1: was a Lakers team that would frequently lose control of
Speaker 1: the situation for like three four minutes at a time.
Speaker 1: There were a lot of big defensive mistakes down the
Speaker 1: stretch in those losses, the buzzer beater ones in Game
Speaker 1: two and in Game five, and so the reality is
Speaker 1: is like, Darvin's not responsible for what happened. However, everyone
Speaker 1: involved in that situation new like, hey, Darvin's not a
Speaker 1: very good NBA coach right now. So we have a
Speaker 1: lot of urgency, We have a lot of pressure. Lebron's
Speaker 1: going into year twenty two. He's going to be forty
Speaker 1: years old. Let's not head into this season at a
Speaker 1: coaching disadvantage. Let's get someone in here that's more established,
Speaker 1: someone that can actually have a higher floor, a baseline
Speaker 1: level of competence, so that we actually make sure that
Speaker 1: the players are the one determining the outcome.
Speaker 2: Here at the end of the day, all right, Caitlin
Speaker 2: Clark topic. So, and this is just off the top
Speaker 2: of my head, but if you look at players who
Speaker 2: have missed and I don't watch enough WNBA to have
Speaker 2: a strong opinion, but if you look at basketball in general,
Speaker 2: on players that miss college to pro, it's a lot
Speaker 2: of bigs, a lot of injury issues. Sometimes biggs come
Speaker 2: into the league and they just they just they're a
Speaker 2: little old school. It's new school. They get pushed around teammates,
Speaker 2: coaches lose confidence generally point guards. I mean, I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: if you're quick, if you distribute, you can shoot a
Speaker 2: little bit. It's hard to bust. You can find a
Speaker 2: space for a guy maybe in rotation. So and I
Speaker 2: always feel that way with shooters. If you're quick and
Speaker 2: you can get a good shot and you can shoot,
Speaker 2: the leagues just need It's not a lot of guys
Speaker 2: that can really shoot that have been busts. They'll find
Speaker 2: a way. Even if you're an awful defensive player, they'll
Speaker 2: bring you off the bench, they'll put you in patterns
Speaker 2: so you're not having to guard the best defensive players. So,
Speaker 2: like Caitlin Clark, there's this sense is Oh, she's going
Speaker 2: to be a can't miss well even in the NFL,
Speaker 2: there is no camp miss there are no camp misses.
Speaker 2: My take on her though, is she is really quick.
Speaker 2: She has tremendous quart awareness, so players are going to
Speaker 2: like playing with her. Like in Iowa, you know, she
Speaker 2: makes great passes people can't finish like people now can
Speaker 2: finish in the WNBA. So and also she gets a
Speaker 2: shot and she's a devastating shooter. So I do see
Speaker 2: her transforming the lead. I don't think we've seen a
Speaker 2: shooter like that in the league. And I also think
Speaker 2: again her court awareness. Playing with better finishers, people are
Speaker 2: going to want to play with her. Even if she struggles,
Speaker 2: she'll get other people involved and she'll draw so much attention.
Speaker 2: What is your guess on what kind of player she is?
Speaker 2: Is she is she a first team All WNBA because
Speaker 2: I just don't I don't have. You know, the length
Speaker 2: is much different in the WNBA, like six six sixty
Speaker 2: seven is everybody's got those level players, so you don't
Speaker 2: get the freebies downlow. You know, in college you can
Speaker 2: get some real cheap baskets men's and women's. I think
Speaker 2: she's going to be a star, but I have no
Speaker 2: nothing to judge it on. I mean, you're I mean
Speaker 2: Cheryl Miller was bigger, taller. I mean there's certain times
Speaker 2: you don't get athletes and you just go Candas Parker.
Speaker 2: That's gonna work. But a shooting guard from Iowa, I
Speaker 2: don't know what do we make of it.
Speaker 1: So I actually view the college game as more challenging
Speaker 1: to score than people think. And there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: reasons for that one, Like, look at that Iowa team.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of girls on that team that
Speaker 1: could shoot right, so, like the spacing isn't as good.
Speaker 1: One of the things that's interesting to me about college
Speaker 1: shops is the athleticism is always much further along than
Speaker 1: the offensive skill development, so like it's actually like a
Speaker 1: lot of and then the coaching is really good, and
Speaker 1: the level of intensity on a game to game basis
Speaker 1: is really really high. So it's actually really difficult to
Speaker 1: score at the college level. And to your actually one
Speaker 1: hundred percent agree with you on your take on like
Speaker 1: the safety of a player, like the like an offensively
Speaker 1: skilled player being kind of bust proof in the sense
Speaker 1: that like the vast majority of players that demonstrated they
Speaker 1: could score at the college level, get into the NBA
Speaker 1: and they're able to score. And it's because there's a
Speaker 1: gimmer for Debt was a very small player by NBA standard,
Speaker 1: She's not.
Speaker 2: I mean, so there are people that just can't defend
Speaker 2: at all. She's not small. She's not you know, Caitlin's
Speaker 2: got some size to her as well. Like you're not
Speaker 2: gonna push her around either. She's a feisty player.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And like I thought that was one of
Speaker 1: the first things that first of all, such a statement
Speaker 1: to me about just the type of phenomenon that Caitlyn
Speaker 1: Clark is. That, Like, I was covering a game that day,
Speaker 1: I think it was I think it was the it
Speaker 1: might've been the the Nuggets Wolves game. I can't remember.
Speaker 1: I was watching a game for my job that day
Speaker 1: and I literally got my phone up and downloaded the
Speaker 1: WNBA app and I watched it. I was like, I
Speaker 1: texted my wife. My wife was at the airport flying
Speaker 1: home from Chicago, and I texted her and I was like, hey, like,
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Clark's playing on the WNBA app right now. She
Speaker 1: stopped everything she was doing and she downloaded the app
Speaker 1: and she watched the game, which just goes to show
Speaker 1: you that like the type of phenomenon that she is.
Speaker 1: But like, as I was watching, like she can get
Speaker 1: separation from these girls. Yeah, in addition to that, like
Speaker 1: everyone always focuses on like, oh, the athleticism goes up
Speaker 1: a level. All this gets more difficult. But basketball doesn't
Speaker 1: work like that. You're not just playing one on one
Speaker 1: all game long, like you're running sets. You're doing things
Speaker 1: that are designed to generate openings, and she has the
Speaker 1: skill to make shots in those openings. And so there
Speaker 1: was it was such a I don't know what it
Speaker 1: is about Caitlin, and maybe it is her fame, but
Speaker 1: there seems to be this like segment that's almost like
Speaker 1: rooting for her to fail. It's it's kind of bizarre
Speaker 1: to me. I don't understand it. But the truth of
Speaker 1: the matter is is like she might have certain matchups,
Speaker 1: like she might run into specific defenders at the WNBA
Speaker 1: that give her some issues. She's gonna have offshooting nights.
Speaker 1: She's gonna have because she's new at this. She's gonna
Speaker 1: have stretches where it doesn't look as pretty. But to me,
Speaker 1: it's a pretty safe bet that she's gonna score a
Speaker 1: lot of baskets in the WNBA for a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think she has a unique ability.
Speaker 2: I'm interested in WA and WNBA basketball now. And I
Speaker 2: don't be the first to tell you I don't watch everything.
Speaker 2: I don't watch NASCAR. I do watch playoff hockey, but
Speaker 2: I don't watch a lot of regular season hockey. I
Speaker 2: don't watch WNBA much. If it's on, I'd watched ten
Speaker 2: minutes of it, but it's like, oh yeah, I'll watch
Speaker 2: like I would never. You know, I don't do a
Speaker 2: ton of country music, but there have been acts over time.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, I'd go to watch that, and
Speaker 2: I think she has that. Oh I'd watch that. You
Speaker 2: bring the casual in I Kadi always. You know you're
Speaker 2: a casual. Well, most people are casuals. I mean. The
Speaker 2: truth is the reason the NFL. I've said for years
Speaker 2: the NFL is lasagna or Italian food. It's everybody's second favorite,
Speaker 2: if not first. NBA is more sushi. You love it,
Speaker 2: you don't like it at all. I went to college
Speaker 2: with guys from Poloosee Country in Washington State. Raw fish
Speaker 2: to them, it's like not a chance in the world.
Speaker 2: So like every sport needs casuals and the NFL just
Speaker 2: has a ton of casuals. My wife is sit down
Speaker 2: and watching an NFL game. I'm not gonna watch baseball.
Speaker 2: So I think Caitlin Clark has the ability to pull
Speaker 2: me in. I feel it, and I think it's great.
Speaker 2: All right, Jason timp hoops tonight as Ohays great stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was fun man, looking forward to it. This
Speaker 1: second round is going to be incredible. These two Western
Speaker 1: Conference series are gonna be They are gonna be bar
Speaker 1: and burners. I'm looking forward to breaking it down with
Speaker 1: you the volume.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
Speaker 2: take a moment, rate and review