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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: Thank you to our friends at Panini America Official Trading

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Speaker 2: Cowherd draft coverage. You're into it, They're into you, and

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: I've been reading about NBC attacking NBA basketball negotiations and

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Speaker 2: if they took them from TNT, what would they do

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Speaker 2: with the inside the NBA crew. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: the inside the NBA crew sometimes is better than the

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Speaker 2: actual games, especially in the regular season. I think it

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Speaker 2: would be a huge mistake to break him up. Now

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Speaker 2: Ernie Johnson, who is the host, the affable host, the

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Speaker 2: beloved host who he just moves the pieces around, he

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Speaker 2: gets out of the way. He is perfect. I do

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Speaker 2: believe you could find another host. You never replace Ernie

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Speaker 2: in terms of just how the players feel about Ernie.

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Speaker 2: You'd have to get a host that the players voted on.

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Speaker 2: You couldn't just insert somebody from another network and say

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Speaker 2: make it work. Ernie has so much respect and admiration

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Speaker 2: from the crew. Now, Barkley obviously drives the number, and

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Speaker 2: Ernie Johnson will be the first to admit that Shaq

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Speaker 2: and Charles really have You know, some Knights. They're feuding

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Speaker 2: other Knights. They're hysterical laughing at each other. Kenny Smith

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Speaker 2: more of the straight man. But it reminds me a

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Speaker 2: little bit of the Fox broadcasting crew on Sundays, where

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Speaker 2: you know Bradshaw was the funny guy, Howie's this straight man,

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Johnson's the coach, and he really is a coach

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Speaker 2: in real life and on the set he kind of

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Speaker 2: runs it all. And then Kurt Man if he knows

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Speaker 2: when to jump in, push the buttons, poke in the ribs,

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Speaker 2: move out. Then you have Strahan Jay Glazer, but there

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Speaker 2: are there's usually a star of a show, a straight man,

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Speaker 2: and Ernie provides hosting capabilities that the respect and the

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Speaker 2: admiration he has from the guys is kind of you

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Speaker 2: won't find another Ernie, but it is led by Charles,

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Speaker 2: and I think when you lose in Ernie, and that's

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Speaker 2: that's losing something, then you have to take all of

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Speaker 2: them as great as Charles Barkley is. The chemist is

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Speaker 2: a big part of this. And in my years of

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Speaker 2: doing radio and TV, and I've been doing this now

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Speaker 2: thirty years, it's the one thing that the really good

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Speaker 2: executives of Owa's understood and the average executives overlook is chemistry.

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Speaker 2: I've had multiple partners radio TV, but yet I've had

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Speaker 2: one or two shows that chemistry was outstanding. It's hard

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Speaker 2: to explain, it's hard to foster. There's just like you

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Speaker 2: know it, it just works. Maybe there's a mutual respect

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Speaker 2: you have something in common. Somebody finishes your sentences. But

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Speaker 2: if you're gonna lose Ernie, who has reportedly said, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm staying with TNT and your NBC, and you're going

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Speaker 2: to bring that crew over if they did in fact

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Speaker 2: win the rights, you got to lean on that crew

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Speaker 2: and they've got to make that higher. They've they've got

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Speaker 2: to have run through after run through, because the idea

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Speaker 2: you can just insert an NBC guy into that and

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Speaker 2: it's going to work. That would be an executive that

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Speaker 2: doesn't understand fit. And I think a lot of times,

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Speaker 2: you know the Fox crew or the inside the NBA crew,

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Speaker 2: it's hard. Chemistry is hard on these shows. I mean

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Speaker 2: Steven A. Smith at ESPN, you know he and Max Kellerman.

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Speaker 2: At some point stephen A went public and said, yet

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Speaker 2: this just doesn't work. Skipping Shannon worked for a while,

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Speaker 2: then it didn't work. Mike and the Band Dog in

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Speaker 2: New York. I listened to them for years. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was really good. I could tell on the air

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Speaker 2: when they got tired of each other. They got real

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Speaker 2: snippy at each other, very impatient with each other. You

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Speaker 2: could just feel it. It was like you're driving in

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Speaker 2: the car on the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. I'm driving,

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Speaker 2: you know, going to the city or coming out, and

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Speaker 2: I'm listening for an hour and a half. I got

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Speaker 2: a long listen, and I'm like, I'm I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: this sounds right, and I just I think my overall

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Speaker 2: point on this is inside. The NBA works. Yes, Charles

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Speaker 2: is the star, but it works because of chemistry. It's terrific.

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Speaker 2: They all like each other, they all respect each other.

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Speaker 2: And it's like an NBA locker room. It takes one

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Speaker 2: turd to ruin it because it's a you're flying together,

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Speaker 2: you're eating together, you're hanging out. It's not like an

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Speaker 2: NFL locker room. Offense goes here, defense goes there. Baseball,

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Speaker 2: you know, during the game, a third of the roster

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Speaker 2: is down in the bullpen, manet. You get these crews,

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Speaker 2: you got four or five guys. One bad fit blows

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Speaker 2: it up, blows it up, and I think they've done

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Speaker 2: such a good job. It is to me. During the

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Speaker 2: regular season, I generally like the show more than the games. Now,

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Speaker 2: once the playoffs start, I'm into the games. But I

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Speaker 2: think you can't. People are gonna watch the NFL regardless

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Speaker 2: of how good or bad the shows are. But the

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Speaker 2: NBA is different. It's a long regular season, even the players,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of apathy inside. The NBA in my lifetime,

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Speaker 2: is very unique. We're all stick around for that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I can think Fox does a great job at NBC

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Speaker 2: in the NFL is not quite as good. But I'm

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Speaker 2: watching the games. That's not the case inside the NBA

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Speaker 2: gets me to a TV during the regular season when

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Speaker 2: sometimes I'm not sure the players even care. All right,

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Speaker 2: NBA Playoffs and full swing. Jason Timp, host of Hoops Tonight,

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Speaker 2: is joining us.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I was watching the tea Wolves and Nuggets, and I

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Speaker 2: thought this would be a very long series. I said,

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Speaker 2: six or seven, I'll take Denver. But I was watching

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Speaker 2: Charles Barkley after and his interpretation was sort of mine,

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Speaker 2: which is, you watched these guys play Minnesota's bigger, Minnesota's deeper,

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Speaker 2: and there was clearly an athletic advantage. They're just they're

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Speaker 2: more athletic there. I mean, some of that's aunt, maybe

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Speaker 2: a large part of its aunt. But Jokic isn't highly

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Speaker 2: ath what you would call dynamic. He's just a great

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Speaker 2: basketball player. Jamal Murray again, he never made an All

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Speaker 2: Star team. I wouldn't call him dynamic. He's a shot maker,

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Speaker 2: Michael porter Is Gordon is just a relentless energy guy.

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Speaker 2: But when I watched that series, and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to overreact, but I was like, oh, they can throw

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Speaker 2: a lot of bodies at Denver, a lot of bodies.

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Speaker 2: They go about eight deep. You know, there's not much

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Speaker 2: of a Denver bench. In my take is it's hard

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Speaker 2: to win when they're deeper, they're more athletic. And part

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Speaker 2: of this is and I said this about two weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: I said, it's an inflection point for Aunt Edwards. Is

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Speaker 2: he going to become dominique spectacular but can't get through

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Speaker 2: these profoundly deep teams, no titles and we just have

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Speaker 2: great highlights or Jordan that you got to win two

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Speaker 2: to three or four, and it's like, now this is

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Speaker 2: the face of the league. And when Bey an Ant

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Speaker 2: feel like those are the two guys that should be

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Speaker 2: the face of the league. So this series, to me,

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Speaker 2: it's a lot bigger than people think. It's not just

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Speaker 2: well Ant goes down. It's like Denver may have a

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Speaker 2: bench at some point, you know, like this Denver team.

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Speaker 2: You beat them now, they'll probably have to react to you. Also,

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Speaker 2: if Minnesota loses, they may not keep Karl Anthony Towns.

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Speaker 2: So this twin Towers thing, although it's worked, it may

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Speaker 2: be more experimental if they got doused in five games

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Speaker 2: in this series. So I feel like I'm watching this

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Speaker 2: in fascinating inflection point with ant as he is. Now

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Speaker 2: if they get to the finals, they match up very

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Speaker 2: well with Boston. You're like, is this Jordan's first title?

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Speaker 2: Am I overreacting to it?

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Speaker 1: No, not at all. I mean, it's been the best

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Speaker 1: player in the playoffs so far. He's literally been the

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Speaker 1: best guy in the best he watched he soundly out

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Speaker 1: played Nikola Yokic last night. Like It's funny when you're

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Speaker 1: watching the games live, there's always like kind of a

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Speaker 1: narrative that tends to take shape, and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of focus on like, oh, Jamal Murray is struggling.

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Speaker 1: Oh nas Reed had a scoring run in the fourth quarter,

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Speaker 1: Like you focus on these specific things. But I went

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Speaker 1: back and looked through the tape and as I watched,

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest things that stood out to me

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Speaker 1: is Jokic just didn't play very well, he had seven turnovers.

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Speaker 1: He was completely caught off guard by a lot of

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Speaker 1: like the pressure that Minnesota brought. They were kicking him

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Speaker 1: up full court randomly. He had a travel in the

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Speaker 1: back court where nas Reed randomly picked him up in

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Speaker 1: the full court there, Rudy Gobert was kind of in

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Speaker 1: his head, kind of stunting, faking like he was gonna

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Speaker 1: step up, and then he'd get back and deflect that

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Speaker 1: lob pass to Aaron Gordon. Yokic had a bad night.

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Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards came in and just completely cleaned house, and

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Speaker 1: so a lot of times, like I look at it

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Speaker 1: and it's like, if you're expecting Jamal Murray to just

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Speaker 1: break out against the best perimeter defender in the league

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Speaker 1: in Jada McDaniels, that's probably not gonna happen. But Jokic

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Speaker 1: does have the ability to flip the script. In this series,

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Speaker 1: he can be much better. And then one of the

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Speaker 1: big things Michael Malone was talking about after the game,

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Speaker 1: he really didn't like their defensive effort in the second half,

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Speaker 1: and generally, I agree, they let they get They let

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Speaker 1: it get way too comfortable in the mid range when

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Speaker 1: he was isolating those smaller Denver guards and he's so

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Speaker 1: dead he's hitting that fade away at like fifty percent,

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Speaker 1: So like you can't you can't leave him there. You

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Speaker 1: have to get out and like kind of crowd him more.

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Speaker 1: And so I think a better defensive effort to do

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Speaker 1: a better job containing Aunt and then Jokic actually in

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Speaker 1: inflicting himself on the series as the best player in

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Speaker 1: the world, can flip the script. But to your point,

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Speaker 1: it is absolutely an inflection point because if Minnesota wins

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Speaker 1: this series and Ant out plays Jokic, then he just

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Speaker 1: beat the defending champs and the best player in the

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Speaker 1: world without home court advantage and without a legitimate co star.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and if you look Jason, that the face

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Speaker 2: of the league right now is really Tatum's personality. He

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Speaker 2: really is a giver. He's never a taker. You almost

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Speaker 2: have to push him nudge him to take, so he doesn't.

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Speaker 2: He looks like to me, he loves being an All star,

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Speaker 2: making good money and winning games. He doesn't have any

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Speaker 2: real agenda to be the face of the league. Jokic

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Speaker 2: mostly European guys are not interested. So like it's open

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Speaker 2: for Ant. Wemby's not there yet. Jokic isn't interested. You know,

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Speaker 2: Giannis has never really moved the needle in terms of

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Speaker 2: like ratings and beads. Not healthy. So as I'm watching

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Speaker 2: him first half, he was insane and then and then

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Speaker 2: he was very quiet in the third. But as I'm

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Speaker 2: watching him, I'm like, you know, Jordan had these dead quarters.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Michael was classic for when his head would steam,

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Speaker 2: You're like, okay, Michael's on one. And then Michael really

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Speaker 2: got it. Was like a great baseball pitcher that he

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Speaker 2: knew the twelve pitches he had to get people out,

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Speaker 2: Like Michael knew gearshift. Lebron's gotten very good at that.

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Speaker 2: Like Lebron's always hoping his teammates get the game going,

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Speaker 2: and if they don't, then he steps in and then

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Speaker 2: at the seven minute mark they get him out. But

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Speaker 2: I watched Aunt and I'm like, don't be too critical

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Speaker 2: of him. Twenty five points in an NBA game and

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Speaker 2: a half is a lot of work. That's a lot

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Speaker 2: of energy. And then in the second half, you're like, uh,

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Speaker 2: first of all, dumb tech talk about that all day.

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Speaker 2: But my take was my take was kind of like

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Speaker 2: it's there for the taking. It feels like Denver's not

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Speaker 2: equipped on the bench. You know, they could die to

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Speaker 2: have a six man who could play twenty minutes to defense.

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Speaker 2: This may be the moment. All these great stars have moments.

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Speaker 2: It took Jordan years and years. The difference is Jordan

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Speaker 2: had like iconic teams pissed and Celtics in front of them.

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Speaker 2: Denver hasn't risen that. So as good as the West is, Jason,

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Speaker 2: it feels like this is the moment to seize it.

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Speaker 1: It's absolutely there for the taking. Again, I still think

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Speaker 1: Denver is going to win this series. I certainly think

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Speaker 1: it's way too early to just to bail on them entirely.

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Speaker 1: An important element to that game too, as they spotted

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Speaker 1: Minnesota in eighteen to four lead and Michael Malon talked

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Speaker 1: after the game. Jamal Murray didn't practice all week because

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Speaker 1: of his calf. Cacp's got a bad ankle. So they

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Speaker 1: are easing their way into the series in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. Also generally just a little brief story, like

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Speaker 1: I play a lot of pickup basketball, but then during

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Speaker 1: the summer, a lot of the college kids around town

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Speaker 1: and the old guys who play overseas, they come home

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Speaker 1: and I work out with them, and there's always like

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Speaker 1: an adjustment for me going from lower level competition to

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Speaker 1: higher level competition. And there's no doubt that Minnesota is

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Speaker 1: a much higher level defense than the Lakers were. And

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Speaker 1: so there's gonna be a little bit of like a, oh,

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Speaker 1: that pass, I need to put a little more on it.

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Speaker 1: I need to be more accurate. I can't be as

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Speaker 1: sloppy with my handle. This shot that I got off

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Speaker 1: against Austin Reeves, I won't be able to get off

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Speaker 1: against Jane McDaniels. Like all these there's gonna be an

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Speaker 1: adjustment period for Denver in this series to kind of

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Speaker 1: get used to that offense. That said, as far as

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Speaker 1: Aunt goes like it, it's there's still so much room

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Speaker 1: for him to improve because that quiet third quarter Ant

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Speaker 1: got tired. You could tell Ant got tired in that game. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so there's gonna be an energy management piece that he

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Speaker 1: figures out. There's gonna be like a reading the floor

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Speaker 1: better piece that he figures out. There's like there's a

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Speaker 1: little bully ball possession on Reggie Jackson where he just

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Speaker 1: walked It was a play he got the tech. He

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Speaker 1: walked him right underneath the rim and put it in.

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Speaker 1: It was the easiest bucket he got all night. Like,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be a point where he realizes all these

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Speaker 1: guards can't guard him, and he starts destroying people even

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Speaker 1: closer to the rim, and so this guy's the limit

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Speaker 1: for him. I got in trouble with Celtics fans for

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Speaker 1: comparing the two of them. It was a mail bag question.

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Speaker 1: But then I started thinking about it, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a real thing here, this is

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Speaker 1: who's the next great American player? Because there is something

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Speaker 1: to be said about being the best American player in

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Speaker 1: the NBA from a marketability standpoint, right sure, Like there's

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Speaker 1: a reason why a huge portion of my listeners are overseas.

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Speaker 1: It's because the best players in the league are all

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Speaker 1: from overseas, and so they've got these huge fan bases

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Speaker 1: from Serbia and in the Philippines and things like that.

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Speaker 1: There's all these guys that are that are supporting these players,

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Speaker 1: and we need an American star that can come up

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Speaker 1: and kind of take the mantle. And to your point,

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Speaker 1: like Jason Tatum has, he just doesn't quite have the

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Speaker 1: personality for it. But the biggest piece and the main

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Speaker 1: reason why I think Ant is better than him has

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Speaker 1: to do with the athleticism piece. Ant can have Bradley

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Speaker 1: Beal on the wing and just utterly blow by him

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Speaker 1: off the dribble and then dunk on Kevin Durant like

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Speaker 1: he's not even there. And then it's not to say

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Speaker 1: that Jason Tatum hasn't had big dunks in his career

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Speaker 1: because he's got great size, but his first step is

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Speaker 1: not nearly as dynamic as Anthony Edwards is, and so

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Speaker 1: when he faces a really good defender in a late

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Speaker 1: game situation, he can struggle to get to his spots. Sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Aunt never struggles getting to his spot like he's gonna

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Speaker 1: get a good look up. It's just a question of

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Speaker 1: whether or not he can make it. And to his credit,

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Speaker 1: the two big things that he's figured out that have

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Speaker 1: been his inflection between the Dominique and MJ kind of

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Speaker 1: like fork in the road, the split for him has

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Speaker 1: been he's been better at reading the floor. He was

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Speaker 1: the guy who got Nasriy going last night. It was

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Speaker 1: the banked in three that was a kickout from Ant

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Speaker 1: when his man helped the driving, and one on the

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Speaker 1: baseline that was the skip pass from Ant. When he

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Speaker 1: was reading a pick and roll coverage. And then the

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Speaker 1: second piece of it is that jump shooting piece. He's

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Speaker 1: deadly in that fourteen to eighteen foot range, and so

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Speaker 1: he has a shot he can go to where it's

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Speaker 1: like this is gonna go in a majority of the time.

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Speaker 1: It gives him like a certain level of resilience in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs. And so I just think I think he's

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Speaker 1: just better. I think he's the best American player in

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Speaker 1: the league of that generation, and I think he has

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Speaker 1: a chance to take that mantle well.

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Speaker 2: To be the best player. It's like being the best

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Speaker 2: country Western star. It's not just your songs are popular

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Speaker 2: and easy to dance to. There's often something that's really

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Speaker 2: touches people. If you look at the faces of the league.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if he was a face of a league,

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Speaker 2: but the first player that caught my attention in the

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Speaker 2: seventies was Doctor j Nobody played like that, right, nobody

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Speaker 2: played like that his hand size. And then after that

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Speaker 2: was Magic Johnson. We'd never had a six eight and

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Speaker 2: a half point guard. And then it was Larry Bird

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Speaker 2: alongside Magic. We'd never had a forward easily be the

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Speaker 2: best shooter, and passer in the league, like he didn't play,

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Speaker 2: he played like a two guard. And then you go

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Speaker 2: into Shack. Okay, that's there's nothing been that powerful. Big

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Speaker 2: guys don't run the floor. And then you know, and

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Speaker 2: before him, it's Michael the greatest player of all time

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Speaker 2: with great flair. Kobe was never already the face of

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Speaker 2: the league, but was like Michael light. Then you go

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Speaker 2: into Lebron, arguably the greatest player, the great Swiss army

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Speaker 2: knife that does everything differently. So all those players were like,

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00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 2: to some degree, a little bit of unicorns athletically or

338
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,320
Speaker 2: they had a dimension to their game. They still show

339
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,960
Speaker 2: Doctor Jay's dunk against Michael Cooper, it's still the great.

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00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 2: It's dunk in the history in a game. It's the seventies.

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Speaker 2: It's fifty years ago with all these athletes. So with

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Speaker 2: ants skit, I've watched Jason Tatum live three times. I've

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Speaker 2: watched them a hundred times. He's very good. It's not

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Speaker 2: historically unique looking. He's just really clever and really smooth,

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Speaker 2: good two way player. Ant does stuff and you're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: sorry to put the drink down, use I got to

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Speaker 2: watch the replay on that, Like whole. Even NBA guys

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Speaker 2: are like, whoa, whoa. You see him come off the bench.

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Speaker 2: So Wemby has some of that. Wemby could block eight

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Speaker 2: blocks a game, you know, I mean, he could have

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Speaker 2: a stretch like nobody looks like that. So I do

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Speaker 2: think Ant's advantage is there's a lot of wow stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I remember when Shaq came in the league.

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Speaker 2: Jerry Tarkani and I covered him at YOUNLV. He told me,

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Speaker 2: when Shaq was a sophomore, I was at a place

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Speaker 2: called the Late Jerry Tarkani and I covered him in

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Speaker 2: Vegas at a place called Sharks or Tarks or Sharks,

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00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 2: and we were sitting at a bar and me and

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00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,240
Speaker 2: a guy named John Henderson, a retired sports writer now

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Speaker 2: in Italy, and he said, there's a kid named Shaquille

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Speaker 2: O'Neil at el Shoe and he goes, I know you've

362
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Speaker 2: seen high lights. He's going to be the greatest basketball

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Speaker 2: player you've ever seen when he plays. And you know,

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Speaker 2: Jerry was a very good recruiter, and you know, and

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Speaker 2: he just said, there's never been anything like him, And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the sentence for the faces of the league.

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Speaker 2: There's never been anything like him. And my take is

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Speaker 2: he's a little Dominique, a little Michael. I mean, what's

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Speaker 2: his comp that feels like the right comps.

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Speaker 1: He's bigger and stronger than the other two guards that

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Speaker 1: came before him too, Like he's got a little bit

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Speaker 1: of like the downhill force that you saw from Dwayne Wade,

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Speaker 1: but he's bigger and a better shooter. Right, He's got

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Speaker 1: a lot of He's got some of the like the

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Speaker 1: footwork stuff from the mid to high post. But again,

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Speaker 1: like he's he's got like a strength and a power

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Speaker 1: element to his game that even MJ and Kobe didn't have.

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Speaker 1: So like, in a weird way, this is the beautiful

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Speaker 1: thing about basketball history is every every player, it's very

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Speaker 1: rare to have a guy like Kobe who's like almost

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Speaker 1: almost the spitting image of the guy he was trying

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Speaker 1: to be like. Right, Like Tobe and MJ were so similar,

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Speaker 1: Ant's kind of got his own unique flare on it.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like Dwayne Wade meets better jump shooting

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Speaker 1: meets the body of a middle linebacker in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's hard, it's hard to describe, but

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Speaker 1: like and then again, the big piece of it is

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Speaker 1: like this guy's going to Kevin Durant and he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're my favorite player, but you know I'm busting your

390
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 1: ass right. It's like this weird like shit talking mixed

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00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: with respectful mixed with like incredible aggression. But he's also

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Speaker 1: just got this huge personality and that to me is

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Speaker 1: a big part of the marketability element, where like I

394
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Speaker 1: could see him being a superstar in the league for decades.

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397
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Speaker 2: You see this in all sports where you know somebody

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Speaker 2: struggles in postseason. Dak Prescott has multiple times he's still

426
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: going to get paid in the NFL. It's not like

427
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 2: it doesn't happen in the NFL. But it is interesting.

428
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 2: In the NFL, if you can't stay healthy and you're

429
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: always hurt at the end of the year, teams move

430
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 2: off you because they can move off you. NBA teams

431
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 2: it's not that easy, right, there's the contracts have to match.

432
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: It's harder to trade really good players in the NBA.

433
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 2: But the Clippers remind me of the friend who's fun

434
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 2: to hang out with, but if you ever call them

435
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 2: to go to the airport of the hospital, they just

436
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 2: don't show up. Like it's the same. I mean, I

437
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 2: never know if Qawi is playing. Harden and Westbrook scare

438
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 2: me to death in the postseason. I think Paul George

439
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,479
Speaker 2: is underrated. But as I watch them again, is I

440
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 2: feel like the Clipper sort of deserved this. Like they

441
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 2: re signed Kawhi, most teams were like, no, like we're out.

442
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 2: It's one thing if you're injured, Jason, it's another if

443
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 2: you're nonverbal, And I mean, you're not sure at three

444
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: forty five as a head coach if he's gonna be

445
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: in the mood to play. That's why Popovich just said,

446
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 2: I'm out. I'm done. I want to feel bad for

447
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: teams that get eliminated due to injuries, but I'm kind

448
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: of over the Clippers. I mean, is that unfair?

449
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I mean the in the weeks

450
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: leading up to the first round series, we didn't know

451
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: whether or not he was gonna play. Neither did the

452
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: neither did the Clippers staff. Like at those questions to

453
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 1: ty Louie's like, I don't know, we'll see. I don't know,

454
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 1: we'll see, Like he just he just doesn't know, right,

455
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: And honestly, I feel bad because if you're a Clippers fan,

456
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: I don't even have any sort of advice or any

457
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: sort of like situation that that that would lead you

458
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: to have an optimistic perspective moving forward. I understand why

459
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: you'd run it back next season, in particular because brand

460
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: new arena. You can't go into the brand new arena

461
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: with the rebuilding situation, right, And I thought one of

462
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: the specific things that this shine to light on is

463
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: Paul George, Paul George and James Harden is not enough either.

464
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: It's been one of the biggest things that stood out

465
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: to me from this postseason run. The stars that have

466
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: real physical gifts, and I mean like a superpower of

467
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: some kind in terms of their physical advantages, they are thriving.

468
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: But the ones that are relying almost solely on skill

469
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: are really struggling. And I thought that that Maverick series

470
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: was a perfect example of that. Luca's big. He's just

471
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: bigger and stronger than the vast majority of the guys

472
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: he's going against. So he can get a little bit

473
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: of an angle, shoot that gap, bump you with his

474
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: left shoulder, and get to a little short shot in

475
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: the lane that he can make it a high percentage.

476
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: And that's how Luca got going in that series was

477
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: closer to the basket. His pull up jumper was broke

478
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: that entire series. Kyrie Irving he has an elite first step,

479
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: He's super quick, and that in conjunction with his skill

480
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: allows him to get open. James Harden is just a

481
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: better version of D'Angelo Russell. He's a skill guard that

482
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: can't really shake free from people, right. And Paul George

483
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: at this phase in his career is a all you know,

484
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: kind of like not overly quick, not overly fast, skill wing.

485
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: And so when you put elite defenders on them that

486
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: bring physicality. They struggle to beat people off the dribble,

487
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: they struggle to get separation. Whereas the top tier guys,

488
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: we're watching Anthony Edwards just cut everybody to pieces. We're

489
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: watching Yokics get wherever he wants. We're watching Luca get

490
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: wherever he wants. We're watching the elite athletes thrive. And

491
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: so the problem is for the Clippers, why is their

492
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: elite athlete. He's the one guy that has the resilience

493
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: to get to his spots in the postseason. And here

494
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: we are, what four seasons in a row where he's

495
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 1: not able to finish this grind. And so I don't

496
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: know where you go from here, but at a certain point,

497
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: I think they have to give it one more shot

498
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: just because of the new arena. But I think if

499
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: it goes south next year, you have no choice but

500
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: to do something.

501
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people after Kyrie's performance in

502
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: the series pushing back and saying, well, hey, you guys

503
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: all bailed on him. No, nobody bailed on their belief

504
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 2: he's the greatest small closer with both hands we've ever seen.

505
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: Nobody bailed on that, right, Like, I still contend that

506
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: you know, Baker Mayfield's one of the top twenty quarterbacks

507
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 2: in the world. Like today, I think he's a really

508
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 2: good quarterback. We just had pushback on some of the

509
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: you know, early behavior maturation. Nobody denies that, and with Kyrie,

510
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: my takeaway, it is working now and Luca is obviously great.

511
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: But I do think, and I think we talked about

512
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 2: this last time, I think they're too lobsided to win

513
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: a title. Like when they win, it's always spectacular. Sometimes

514
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: you have to win boring. Sometimes you just have to,

515
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: Like Denver has mastered winning boring, trailing most of the game.

516
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 2: The other night, I had this feeling when it was

517
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 2: they were down two or three with about five minutes ago,

518
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh god, this is just such a Denver game.

519
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 2: But you know, Minnesota is a different task now. But

520
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: I tend to think teams that need spectacular and Kyrie's spectacular.

521
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: There's not a lot of easy mid range stuff. It's

522
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,479
Speaker 2: all beautiful. Do you consider them Do you consider them

523
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: a title contender in Dallas?

524
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: You know, I pretty much did until the Maxi Cleba injury.

525
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: Maxi Kleiba is vitally important to a specific look that

526
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: they have, which is their small ball look when they

527
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: have Kleiba and PJ. Washington at the four and the

528
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: five next to Derek Jones Junior, Kawhi or excuse me,

529
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: Kyrie and Luka Doncic, they're very versatile defensively to your point,

530
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: like everyone's focused on Kyrie and Luca. Everyone knew Kyrie

531
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: and Luca could do what they could do. The reason

532
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: why Dallas is succeeding is they had a veteran minimum

533
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: signing and Derek Jones Junior, who is a absolute home

534
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: run Like he's just giving them excellent point of attack defense.

535
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: He was the guy who guarded Paul George so well

536
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: in the last series. Andy sitting spot up shots and

537
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: can drive close outs and can run his lane and transition.

538
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: And then PJ. Washington and Maxi Kleiba give them these

539
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: really versatile defensive forwards that can defend at the rim

540
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: and out on them. Specifically for the OKC matchup, it's

541
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: tricky because chet Holmgren is a is a big man

542
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: who can shoot and specifically he'll set screens and then

543
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: pop to the three point line. That is a nightmare

544
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: for drop coverage bigs like Derek Lively, like Daniel Gafford.

545
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: So Maxi Kliba was the was the remedy for that.

546
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 1: Maxi Klebo is the guy who could switch those screens.

547
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: Maxi Kleba can actually slide his feet and guard shake

548
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: gials with Alexander a little bit, so you can switch

549
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: those screens and things like that. He was a vital

550
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: part of their defense of versatility. His injury is a

551
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: massive loss for that team. I don't want to cut

552
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: them cut them out entirely from this picture, because anybody

553
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,479
Speaker 1: who's made it to the second round certainly has a shot,

554
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: but that that Kliba hit is a big loss for them.

555
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: You know, I was thinking about this flying in. I

556
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: hung out in a park city with my wife this

557
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: weekend of the dogs and snowed again. By the way,

558
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: as I was driving to the airport, a snowstorm. It's

559
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: like May fifth, So you know, I was thinking about

560
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 2: this that. You know, there's been a lot of instances

561
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: in my life where a team makes a run. Sacramento

562
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: is like this during the Kobe years, where they make

563
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: a run. They get really close and you think to yourself, Oh,

564
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: it's gonna be like an eight year run, and then

565
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 2: like they have a really bad loss in the playoffs,

566
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 2: and they're never the same. I mean, Sacramento light the beam,

567
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 2: I mean, we all felt like this is the beginning

568
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 2: of something big. Lose to the Warriors, it just didn't

569
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: feel the same this year. These young teams Oklahoma City,

570
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 2: Minnesota just jumped over them. Indiana jumped over them. And so,

571
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting when I look at the Knicks,

572
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 2: you can make the argument, hey, they're gonna move Randal,

573
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: They're gonna get somebody in here. It's gonna be great.

574
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: But to get somebody in they're gonna have to get

575
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: rid of a few Josh Hearts. You gotta be very delicate.

576
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: This is a Tibbs team. These betteran guys. They don't

577
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: want to practice like that, they don't want to play

578
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: forty five minutes. So the Knicks are fascinating. I thought

579
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: Philadelphia would win this series. And by the middle of

580
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: Game two, I'm like, oh, yeah, New York's a better team.

581
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: They're winning the boards, they're better late, they're better. It

582
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: just felt like, you know, you watch series and you're like, oh,

583
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: by the way, we may feel this. By halftime of

584
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: Minnesota Denver, you know, you're like oh, here's a real

585
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: problem here. But what's interesting with the Knicks. I can

586
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: also argue this Jimmy Butler was hurt both day, Mignonnis

587
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: were hurt. Sixers have a shit ton of cap space

588
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: and three potential picks. Indiana's getting better. What a Orlando

589
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: takes a big swing and gets a member of the

590
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: Phoenix Suns right like, do you buy because you're gonna

591
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: have to give up some of those nice maybe a

592
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: villanova guy. They're such a hustle effort team. Is this

593
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: like you can't take it for granted? The East this

594
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: year stinks like its depth is all time bad. Do

595
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: we both believe, Hey, they're just gonna add a Kadie

596
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: or a Paula George and they're gonna take a leap

597
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: or is it a delicate ecosystem there in New York

598
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: and a beat up East in conference and reality may

599
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: smack him in the face next year.

600
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: So a huge part of their identity right now is

601
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: the hustle right like yeah, yet like they like their

602
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: offense kind of reminds me of like the Allen iverson

603
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: seventy six ers teams where Jalen Brunson is kind of

604
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: just totally taking that responsibility on by himself, but it's

605
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: mixed with like, hey, as soon as Jalen shoots, just

606
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: everyone crashed the offensive glass and go get the rebound.

607
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: Like that's basically what it is. And it's like Isaiah

608
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: Hartenstein excellent offensive rebounder, Mitchell Robinson excellent offensive rebounder, Josh

609
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: hart excellent offensive rebounder, Dante DiVincenzo excellent offensive rebounder. That's

610
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: just kind of what they do. So the thing though,

611
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: is like you have to be careful if you include

612
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: somebody like og and Andoby in a trade like that,

613
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: because the physical profile the Knicks is vitally important in

614
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: my opinion, and I think you can get away with

615
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: giving up you know, for instance, like I think if

616
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: I had to choose between giving up Heart and Devincenzo

617
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: in a deal or an og Anobi, I would be

618
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: doing whatever I could to hold onto Og because if

619
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: you get if you get Kevin Durant at this phase

620
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: of his career, older, right, and he's not as like

621
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: physically strong as a guy like og Ananobi, you alter,

622
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: you alter the physical profile of the team to the

623
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: point where you're not as imposing because Og is a

624
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: big part of what you're capable of doing on both

625
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: ends of the floor in terms of that physical identity,

626
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: and so I think they have to be careful. You're

627
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: going to fundamentally change your identity as a basketball team

628
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: by making a deal like that, because you go from

629
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: being the bully, offensive, rebound out, hustle team to now

630
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: we're a classic two star build built on offensive firepower

631
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: and in a little bit more of that kind of like, uh,

632
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 1: you know, overall offensive skill. So you got to find

633
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: a way to kind of toe that line between the

634
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: two because you don't want to lose that toughness identity,

635
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: because that toughness identity is a huge part of how

636
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: you're winning. But I think if they could somehow pull

637
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: in a legitimate scoring forward, someone like a Paul Georgia

638
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: or Kevin Durant without giving up that that ogi in

639
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: an obie slot, I think you could be in good shape.

640
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: This is where it's an advantage that you have the

641
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: picks that you have, and then you have as many

642
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: good players as you have, because if you had to

643
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: give up of Mitchell Robinson, you have Isaiah Hartenstein. If

644
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 1: you have to give up an Isaiah Hartenstein, you have

645
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: Mitchell Robinson. If you have to give up a Dante DiVincenzo,

646
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 1: you know who's a hell of a player. Deuce McBride

647
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: like that, and he's a guy that can guard on

648
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: the perimeter and do a lot of that stuff. So

649
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: like they have enough depth to where they can give

650
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: up from different spots. But if I'm Phoenix and you're

651
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: like you want Kevin Durant, I'm like I want og Anobi,

652
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: and so it's gonna be tough. It's gonna be a

653
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: hard negotiation. Yeah, But if they can somehow keep Jalen

654
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: og one of the centers and then get one of

655
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: those big forwards, that's a really good team. That's a

656
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: team that you'd be probably picking out East.

657
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: Well, and you live in Arizona, and we've talked about this,

658
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: is that you can get more for Booker. But remember

659
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: Phoenix was not good pre Chris Paul. So he's not

660
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: a leader guy and he can't carry a franchise. And

661
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: then you disappointed this year with Durant and Beale around Booker,

662
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: there's your classic. You know, cat shoot, I don't think

663
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: he's this great athlete, he's just a he's a dependable

664
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: twenty five, twenty six at night, he can be really

665
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: streaky and get into the thirty five for long stretches,

666
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: like he's a crazy streak shooter. But I think you

667
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: make the mistake if you like in Orlando, if Orlando

668
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: made a move Bonkaro's you're one to me, it feels

669
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: like and Booker comes in is a really good too.

670
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: But I want another score at the forward, you know,

671
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: another some size, some length. So like if you're Phoenix

672
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: now Bill and Kevin Durant, well, if you get rid

673
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: of Booker, I got to get some young players over

674
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: here because those guys are gonna miss some spots. Although

675
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: Durant played a ton this year. So my take is

676
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 2: your Phoenix, you can bring it all back, but there

677
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: are issues. You don't have a classic point guard, you

678
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: don't have much of a bench, so those are real issues.

679
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: You can keep bringing stuff back, but it's like at

680
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: some point you have holes, right, we see, like Milwaukee,

681
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: you can bring it all back, and they may have

682
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: to because they don't have they don't have a lot

683
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: of assets, and this is an old they're all locked up.

684
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: I don't think that many people want I think Dame,

685
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: you could move in gi honest, but they don't want

686
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: to move those two. So my takeaway is, you watch

687
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: a lot of Suns basketball, who would you move? Where

688
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: would you move them? Because it feels like to me,

689
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 2: people are gonna make They're going to get more phone

690
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: calls than any team in the league because there's a

691
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: lot of New York Knicks and Orlando's out there looking

692
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 2: at Phoenix thinking it ended poorly. Yeah, they they want

693
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 2: to get out of stuff. They don't want to say

694
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: it publicly. Phoenix is saying, hey, we're bringing the band

695
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: back together, but it's a flawed team. Vocal likes Biggs,

696
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: it's not built for him.

697
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: What would you do you have to say that to

698
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: You can't be like, yeah, oh yeah, fire sale this summer,

699
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: you come and get them. But like the as far

700
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, so much of this comes

701
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: down to how you viewed Booker, and a lot of

702
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: Suns fans view him as like a bona fide franchise cornerstone.

703
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: And the point the thing they point to there is

704
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one season. But it's like, okay, hold

705
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: on a second, let's let's filter through that. The conference

706
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: finalists out West was a team led by Paul George Okay,

707
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: without Kawhi Leonard and Trey Young made the conference finals

708
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 1: out East, like it was they won. The Bucks won

709
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: that series with Gianna said in a hyper extended knee

710
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: over the last couple of games. So like, really that

711
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: was the weird COVID season where all the good teams

712
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: got hurt. All the good teams got hurt. The Lakers

713
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: got hurt, the Nuggets got hurt. He got hurt. Like

714
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: everyone was hurt ye in that season. So like it

715
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: was kind of this gap year. Totally legitimate championship for

716
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: the Bucks, but like the Sun's getting to the finals,

717
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: I think got them to believe in Devin Booker as

718
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: this like franchise cornerstone. I look at Devin Booker more

719
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: as like the Kyrie Irving type of archetype. If I

720
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: could put him next to a real a franchise player

721
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: and he can just focus on being a late game

722
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: shot maker, slash guy that can spell your star for

723
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: stretches and run the offense, that's the kind of fit

724
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: that I like. And so when I look at the

725
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: Sun situation, Bradley Beal, I think is a really good player,

726
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: but his trade value is low because he's older, injury prone,

727
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: and on the long term deal that pays him a

728
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: shit ton of money. Right, Kevin Gurant really good player,

729
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: but old and just in a situation where like he

730
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: doesn't have as much value around the league. Devin Booker

731
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: is a guy that you can trade and get a

732
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: Hall and so Hall. Yeah, And so what I was

733
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: pitching is like, embrace, like have the self awareness to

734
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: embrace the fact that Devin Booker's not gonna be your

735
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: franchise cornerstone and then be like, Okay, well, how do

736
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: we turn this situation into something more fun. I would

737
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 1: call Orlando and I'd be like, Hey, you got Dev,

738
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: you got Palo Boncaro, but you just lost a series

739
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: to the Calves because nobody can create a shot other

740
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: than Palo, and no one can make jumpers. So like

741
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: you need somebody that can come in and just be

742
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: like a skill guard next to Paloon Caaro. And so

743
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: if I would call them and I'd be like, I

744
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: want Jalen Suggs, I want Jonathan Isaac, and I want

745
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: Wendell Carter Junior. That's a lot that is a hal

746
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: Those are three really good.

747
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: Hey, Uggs was viewed as a bust six months ago.

748
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: Exactly into Suggs his credit, He's turned himself into one

749
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: of the best permitter defenders in the league and a

750
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: good three point shooter, right Like, He's a very valuable archetype.

751
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: So now if I'm this, I'm looking at it. And

752
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: by the way, you might be able to even coax

753
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: Orlando and to throwing you a draft pick or two

754
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: in that deal. Who knows, depending on how that conversation

755
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: would go. But then I look at it and I'm like, Okay,

756
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: now I've got Jalen Suggs, an elite point of attack defender,

757
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: something Phoenix did not have last year. I've got Bradley

758
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: Beal Steele is still a high powered number two. I've

759
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: got Kevin Durant Jonathan Isaac, two really rangy long wings

760
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: that can do a lot defensively. And I'm going from

761
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: Yusuf Nurkic an old a slow footed, big center, to

762
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: Wendell Carter Junior, who is a big, strong, athletic young

763
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: center who can shoot the three ball. And so it

764
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: kind of creates like a more fun Phoenix Suns team.

765
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: And it's just an acknowledgment of the reality that you

766
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: weren't going to be able to rebuild around Booker and

767
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,959
Speaker 1: then go into these series with him as the best player,

768
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: because like, if you go into a series Devin Booker

769
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: is your best player, or into a playoff run, you're

770
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: going to run into a lot of teams that are

771
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: better players than Devin Booker. You just are. And so's

772
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: that problem's not going away. And if I'm Orlando, I'm

773
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: looking at it like Hollow's a franchise cornerstone. But clearly this,

774
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: clearly this build where it's like we're big and strong

775
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: and athletic, but nobody can shoot, no one can dribble,

776
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: no one, they can't shoot. That's not working either, And

777
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 1: so I look at that as like we'll figure out

778
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: the rest later. Give me Devin Booker at age twenty seven,

779
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: next next to my young star who just adds twenty

780
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: seven points per game in a seven game series against

781
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: an elite defense when no one else on his team

782
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: could make anything and he had to do everything. It

783
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: was a really impressive series from Palad. He's got a

784
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: lot of that like physical imposition on the game that

785
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: is super valuable.

786
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that it's a really interesting trade because I think.

787
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 2: I mean, I think what Orlando could provide is what

788
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: Phoenix needs. And I just I thought it was going

789
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: to be better. But the more I watched Phoenix, and

790
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: I watched them a lot, I'm like, Yep, too much

791
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 2: duplication doesn't work. Need more size, need a better wing defender.

792
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: They just gotta make moves. Yeah, I've said this all

793
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: the time in the NFL. It's okay to make mistakes,

794
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: just don't double down on them. Don't convince yourself Daniel

795
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: Jones and the Giants as a top ten quarterback. That's

796
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 2: the mistake, not saying, hey, we missed a draft pick.

797
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: Everybody misses on draft picks. I want to talk about

798
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: Darvin Ham first. I because I said this the other day.

799
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: Listen is for years and years you hear Warrior fans

800
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: banging on Steve Kerr, where's Kamingo, where's Wiseman. Well, they

801
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: want a sophisticated offense that's lightning speed and to bring

802
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 2: guys out of the G league high school insertom when

803
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: you're trying to, by the way, refine them as players.

804
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: They're just raw, I mean, just sand papering these players.

805
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I learned this offense playing with Steph Curry

806
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: and Draymond Green. Is that's that's calculus. You're not talking

807
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: about Orlando's offense, right, the all guys they're all growing together.

808
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: So people banged on curR for years about you're not

809
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: getting the young guys in, And it's like Steve knows

810
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 2: what he's doing. He sees the film, he's at practice

811
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: every day. Give him credit. And I don't think Darvin

812
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: Ham as a rookie head coach is at that level.

813
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 2: But where I'll defend him is that like when you

814
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: faced Denver, Denver's won twelve or thirteen times. If you

815
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: win twelve out of thirteen games in a baseball series,

816
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 2: you know Yankees have on the twins forever. There's probably

817
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: a reason your back ends bad. You don't have the power,

818
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: and there's something you're missing, a component. You know, the

819
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: Yankees have better starting pitching, whatever it is. And I

820
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 2: look at Denver and the Lakers and the four best

821
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: players for the Nuggets never really have a terrible game,

822
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: Like Murray can play like crap in the first half,

823
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: but it'll have a great fourth. Porter will eventually hit

824
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 2: big shots. Even KCP rarely is bad for four quarters.

825
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 2: But Ruey can disappear, Delo has disappeared. Anthony Davis because

826
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: he works so darn hard on the defensive end sometimes

827
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 2: you know, sort of regresses offensively late. And so I

828
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 2: look at it and I think, oh God, I watched

829
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: the Lakers lead for seventy percent of it, but they

830
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: just have guys in their rotation that disappear, and then

831
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: Anthony and Lebron have literally like play harder minute more minutes.

832
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: So I look at it and I think to myself,

833
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 2: you got to get out of substitution patterns. We're not

834
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,959
Speaker 2: at practice. Who does he trust? Who doesn't he I'd

835
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: bring Darvin Ham back, but I mean, Laker fans are

836
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 2: one hundred percent that he's a bum that he can't coach,

837
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: And I'm like, am I missing something? Is he that

838
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 2: bad of a coach?

839
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: So he shouldn't have been put in this particular situation,

840
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: which is where everything really comes back to the front office.

841
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: Darbenham should should have been given a situation where he

842
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: could kind of learn how to coach on the fly

843
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: without as much pressure as there was in Los Angeles.

844
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: To be clear, and I heard your opening rant the

845
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: day after Darvingham got fired and I totally agree with

846
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: everything you said. So many teams rushed to blame the coach.

847
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: It's actually one of my biggest pet peeves in the NBA.

848
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: Every fan base hates their coach. It's the craziest everyone,

849
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: the Warriors, the Warriors. I've even seen Heat fans complain

850
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: about Spolsal's rotation like it is. It is a super

851
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: common thing around the league. So I want to be clear,

852
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: the Lakers lost to Denver because their players weren't as

853
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: good as Denver's players. Goes, that is it is. That

854
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: is absolutely what happened in that series. I actually thought

855
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: it was super fascinating that coming into that season, you

856
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: and I talked about how, like, hey, Ruy plays the

857
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: same position as Lebron, Delo plays the same position as Austin,

858
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: those are redundancies. They need to trade those guys. And

859
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: who were the two guys that let them down in

860
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: that series? Ruey and Dilo, Like those are the two guys.

861
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: So you like that, like the front office is why

862
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: they lost to Denver. That said, it became abundantly clear

863
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: this season that Darvin was not ready. And there are

864
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: two main things that I want to hit on, and

865
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: I'll be quick one. He grossly mismanaged the talent on

866
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: the roster. Here's the basic stat that will send this

867
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: point home. In the thirteen game stretch after the n

868
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: season tournament when they went three to ten, which is

869
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: literally the reason they had to play Denver in the

870
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: first round and fight through the playing tournament, D'Angel Russell,

871
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: who as as flawed as he is, is certainly their

872
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 1: third or fourth best player. D'Angelo Russell was playing as

873
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: many as Cam Reddish and taking as many shots as

874
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: Torrean prints. That was what was happening in that thirteen

875
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: game stretch post in season tournamenthouse. Well, yeah, when you

876
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: are playing, and here's the thing I understand, when there's

877
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: like a sixth or seventh man in your rotation that's

878
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: struggling and you need to jockey the rotation rack. Cau

879
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: Darvin said. He leaked to the press like when a guy,

880
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: what's the word you phrase you use, shits the bad

881
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,479
Speaker 1: ten games in a row. You gotta do something. Here's

882
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: the problem, though, what you don't do is go, h,

883
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: Derek White, that was a rough ten game stretch. You

884
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: know what, Let's take him out of the line up.

885
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: Let's put Peyton Pritchard in there, like, that's not what

886
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: you do. Like you play your best players, your best

887
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: players get more leeway. You don't pull D'Angelo Russell and

888
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: heavily limit his usage in minute opportunities on the floor

889
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: for Cam Reddish, who literally is what on his fourth

890
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: team in five years, Like it just it was an

891
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: asonine misallocation of resources and it directly led to the

892
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: situation they were in the standings. Everybody knew their five

893
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 1: best players were Lebron, ad Austin, Dilo Rui. As soon

894
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: as he started playing all five of them big minutes

895
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: and starting, they took off and won most of their games.

896
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: That was That was a gross That was a negligent

897
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: management of talent. Right. The second piece of it, and

898
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: the important part to understand here is the context of

899
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: why he got hired right around the time Darvin got hired.

900
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: Who was the big coach that everybody wanted after the

901
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: situation what happened in Boston. He was emy Udoka. Everyone's

902
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: like man emay Udoka took the Celtics and turned them

903
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: from like kind of a soft group into like a

904
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 1: really tough group. In that twenty twenty one season, remember,

905
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: and so there was all of this like or twenty

906
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: twenty two season. I should say basically what people were

907
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: thinking was, let's get a former player who can like

908
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 1: look eye to eye with these guys and hold them accountable.

909
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: And the main issue that Darvin am had, and I

910
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: would say this was a bigger issue than anything having

911
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: to do with the rotation. He was too much of

912
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: a benevolent motivator. He never held those guys accountable on

913
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: a day to day basis. They'd have games which would

914
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: have unacceptable efforts and then he'd go and be like,

915
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: you know, marathon, not a sprint, you know, or just

916
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: we're just in this for the long haul. This is

917
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: all gonna be fine. And when you watched I was

918
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: it was jarring in that Denver series to watch the

919
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 1: juxtaposition of Michael Malone actively coaching on the sideline. Guy

920
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: makes a mistake, it's a timeout, he's getting screamed at

921
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: in the huddle, he's going. After Game four, he went

922
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: and ripped them all a new one in the postgame

923
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: presser for not protecting the paint two games in a row.

924
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: And then Darvin Ham is just sitting chilling on the

925
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: sideline he's a very passive coach and he never held

926
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: players accountable. And so when you look at those two teams,

927
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: I've got a Denver team that has really sharpened their execution.

928
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: They never let go of the rope for more than

929
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: a possession or two before they regained composure. And there

930
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: was a Lakers team that would frequently lose control of

931
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: the situation for like three four minutes at a time.

932
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: There were a lot of big defensive mistakes down the

933
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 1: stretch in those losses, the buzzer beater ones in Game

934
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: two and in Game five, and so the reality is

935
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: is like, Darvin's not responsible for what happened. However, everyone

936
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: involved in that situation new like, hey, Darvin's not a

937
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: very good NBA coach right now. So we have a

938
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: lot of urgency, We have a lot of pressure. Lebron's

939
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:11,959
Speaker 1: going into year twenty two. He's going to be forty

940
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: years old. Let's not head into this season at a

941
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: coaching disadvantage. Let's get someone in here that's more established,

942
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: someone that can actually have a higher floor, a baseline

943
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: level of competence, so that we actually make sure that

944
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: the players are the one determining the outcome.

945
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: Here at the end of the day, all right, Caitlin

946
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 2: Clark topic. So, and this is just off the top

947
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 2: of my head, but if you look at players who

948
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: have missed and I don't watch enough WNBA to have

949
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 2: a strong opinion, but if you look at basketball in general,

950
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: on players that miss college to pro, it's a lot

951
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: of bigs, a lot of injury issues. Sometimes biggs come

952
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 2: into the league and they just they just they're a

953
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 2: little old school. It's new school. They get pushed around teammates,

954
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 2: coaches lose confidence generally point guards. I mean, I mean, listen,

955
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: if you're quick, if you distribute, you can shoot a

956
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 2: little bit. It's hard to bust. You can find a

957
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: space for a guy maybe in rotation. So and I

958
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: always feel that way with shooters. If you're quick and

959
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 2: you can get a good shot and you can shoot,

960
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 2: the leagues just need It's not a lot of guys

961
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 2: that can really shoot that have been busts. They'll find

962
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: a way. Even if you're an awful defensive player, they'll

963
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 2: bring you off the bench, they'll put you in patterns

964
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 2: so you're not having to guard the best defensive players. So,

965
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 2: like Caitlin Clark, there's this sense is Oh, she's going

966
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: to be a can't miss well even in the NFL,

967
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,280
Speaker 2: there is no camp miss there are no camp misses.

968
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 2: My take on her though, is she is really quick.

969
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 2: She has tremendous quart awareness, so players are going to

970
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: like playing with her. Like in Iowa, you know, she

971
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: makes great passes people can't finish like people now can

972
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 2: finish in the WNBA. So and also she gets a

973
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,959
Speaker 2: shot and she's a devastating shooter. So I do see

974
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 2: her transforming the lead. I don't think we've seen a

975
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: shooter like that in the league. And I also think

976
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 2: again her court awareness. Playing with better finishers, people are

977
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: going to want to play with her. Even if she struggles,

978
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: she'll get other people involved and she'll draw so much attention.

979
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 2: What is your guess on what kind of player she is?

980
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: Is she is she a first team All WNBA because

981
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 2: I just don't I don't have. You know, the length

982
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,959
Speaker 2: is much different in the WNBA, like six six sixty

983
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 2: seven is everybody's got those level players, so you don't

984
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: get the freebies downlow. You know, in college you can

985
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: get some real cheap baskets men's and women's. I think

986
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: she's going to be a star, but I have no

987
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: nothing to judge it on. I mean, you're I mean

988
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: Cheryl Miller was bigger, taller. I mean there's certain times

989
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: you don't get athletes and you just go Candas Parker.

990
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: That's gonna work. But a shooting guard from Iowa, I

991
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 2: don't know what do we make of it.

992
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: So I actually view the college game as more challenging

993
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: to score than people think. And there's a bunch of

994
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: reasons for that one, Like, look at that Iowa team.

995
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: There are a lot of girls on that team that

996
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: could shoot right, so, like the spacing isn't as good.

997
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: One of the things that's interesting to me about college

998
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: shops is the athleticism is always much further along than

999
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: the offensive skill development, so like it's actually like a

1000
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: lot of and then the coaching is really good, and

1001
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: the level of intensity on a game to game basis

1002
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: is really really high. So it's actually really difficult to

1003
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: score at the college level. And to your actually one

1004
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: hundred percent agree with you on your take on like

1005
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 1: the safety of a player, like the like an offensively

1006
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,479
Speaker 1: skilled player being kind of bust proof in the sense

1007
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: that like the vast majority of players that demonstrated they

1008
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: could score at the college level, get into the NBA

1009
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: and they're able to score. And it's because there's a

1010
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: gimmer for Debt was a very small player by NBA standard,

1011
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: She's not.

1012
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: I mean, so there are people that just can't defend

1013
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: at all. She's not small. She's not you know, Caitlin's

1014
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: got some size to her as well. Like you're not

1015
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 2: gonna push her around either. She's a feisty player.

1016
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And like I thought that was one of

1017
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 1: the first things that first of all, such a statement

1018
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: to me about just the type of phenomenon that Caitlyn

1019
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: Clark is. That, Like, I was covering a game that day,

1020
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: I think it was I think it was the it

1021
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: might've been the the Nuggets Wolves game. I can't remember.

1022
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: I was watching a game for my job that day

1023
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: and I literally got my phone up and downloaded the

1024
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: WNBA app and I watched it. I was like, I

1025
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 1: texted my wife. My wife was at the airport flying

1026
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: home from Chicago, and I texted her and I was like, hey, like,

1027
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Clark's playing on the WNBA app right now. She

1028
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: stopped everything she was doing and she downloaded the app

1029
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: and she watched the game, which just goes to show

1030
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: you that like the type of phenomenon that she is.

1031
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: But like, as I was watching, like she can get

1032
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: separation from these girls. Yeah, in addition to that, like

1033
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: everyone always focuses on like, oh, the athleticism goes up

1034
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: a level. All this gets more difficult. But basketball doesn't

1035
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: work like that. You're not just playing one on one

1036
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: all game long, like you're running sets. You're doing things

1037
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: that are designed to generate openings, and she has the

1038
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: skill to make shots in those openings. And so there

1039
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: was it was such a I don't know what it

1040
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: is about Caitlin, and maybe it is her fame, but

1041
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: there seems to be this like segment that's almost like

1042
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: rooting for her to fail. It's it's kind of bizarre

1043
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: to me. I don't understand it. But the truth of

1044
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: the matter is is like she might have certain matchups,

1045
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: like she might run into specific defenders at the WNBA

1046
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: that give her some issues. She's gonna have offshooting nights.

1047
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: She's gonna have because she's new at this. She's gonna

1048
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: have stretches where it doesn't look as pretty. But to me,

1049
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: it's a pretty safe bet that she's gonna score a

1050
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: lot of baskets in the WNBA for a long time.

1051
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do think she has a unique ability.

1052
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 2: I'm interested in WA and WNBA basketball now. And I

1053
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 2: don't be the first to tell you I don't watch everything.

1054
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 2: I don't watch NASCAR. I do watch playoff hockey, but

1055
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: I don't watch a lot of regular season hockey. I

1056
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: don't watch WNBA much. If it's on, I'd watched ten

1057
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: minutes of it, but it's like, oh yeah, I'll watch

1058
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: like I would never. You know, I don't do a

1059
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: ton of country music, but there have been acts over time.

1060
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, I'd go to watch that, and

1061
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: I think she has that. Oh I'd watch that. You

1062
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: bring the casual in I Kadi always. You know you're

1063
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: a casual. Well, most people are casuals. I mean. The

1064
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: truth is the reason the NFL. I've said for years

1065
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 2: the NFL is lasagna or Italian food. It's everybody's second favorite,

1066
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 2: if not first. NBA is more sushi. You love it,

1067
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 2: you don't like it at all. I went to college

1068
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: with guys from Poloosee Country in Washington State. Raw fish

1069
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 2: to them, it's like not a chance in the world.

1070
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: So like every sport needs casuals and the NFL just

1071
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: has a ton of casuals. My wife is sit down

1072
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: and watching an NFL game. I'm not gonna watch baseball.

1073
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 2: So I think Caitlin Clark has the ability to pull

1074
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 2: me in. I feel it, and I think it's great.

1075
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: All right, Jason timp hoops tonight as Ohays great stuff.

1076
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was fun man, looking forward to it. This

1077
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 1: second round is going to be incredible. These two Western

1078
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: Conference series are gonna be They are gonna be bar

1079
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: and burners. I'm looking forward to breaking it down with

1080
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: you the volume.

1081
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,

1082
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 2: take a moment, rate and review