1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: and do not necessarily represent those of iHeartMedia, How Stuff Works, 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: or its employees. 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: Zodiac a symbol that now stands for terror in San Francisco. Today, 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: there was a possibly significant development in the terrifying case 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 2: of the man who calls himself Zodiac and has boasted 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: that he is responsible for five murders in the last 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 2: nine months. In Zodiac's latest letter last week, he threatened 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: to make a busload of school children his next victims. 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: Since then, school buses have been discreetly guarded and parents' 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: fears have openly risen. This morning, the people of San Francisco, 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 2: during a television conversation program with attorney Melvin bell I, 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: heard a man who claimed to be Zodiac talking on 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: the air. 16 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: A man asked, robbed, tied, and stabbed them, leaving them 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 3: for dad. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, 18 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 3: no a double murder. 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 4: I did it a man who. 20 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 5: Wore a medieval style executioner's hood, carried a knife and 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 5: gun and intended to use them. 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 3: They haven't arrested me because they can't prove a thing. 23 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 4: I'm not the damn Zodiac. 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 6: Who is the Zodiac and where is he from? 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 5: iHeartRadio, Houstuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. This is monster the 26 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 5: Zodiac Killer. Fear spread across northern California as the Zodiac's 27 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 5: pace accelerated. He continued to send letters to newspapers and 28 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 5: to prove authenticity, he included squares of bloody clothing from 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 5: the cab driver's shirt. But apparently letters weren't enough. The 30 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 5: killer craved more attention. In October nineteen sixty nine, Californians 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 5: gathered around their television in anticipation of the Zodiac's on 32 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 5: air debut. They were desperate to finally hear the voice 33 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 5: of unspeakable evil. 34 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 7: That was the voice of a man who called himself 35 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 7: the Zodiac Killer. He's talking to attorney Melvin Belli by 36 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 7: phone on a television conversation show. This bizarre situation began 37 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 7: at two o'clock this morning when the so called Zodiac 38 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 7: telephone police headquarters. He said he was sick, he needed help, 39 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 7: and he wanted to talk to Attorney Melvin bell I 40 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 7: on television. 41 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: The Oakland Police Department contacted Belli that night. Bell I 42 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: was a well known celebrity lawyer whose clients included the 43 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones in Muhammad Ali. With only hours notice, bell 44 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: I came on the Jim Dunbar Show to speak with 45 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: the Zodiac live on TV. 46 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 7: All the scheduled guests were canceled. Bell I waited for 47 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 7: Zodiac to call on the private line. The phone was 48 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 7: not tapped. The telephone twelve times. He spoke very little 49 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 7: with Attorney Belly trying to draw him out that maybe 50 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 7: he's afraid of being beaten up or something like that. 51 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 8: Now, why don't we just ask Sam to tell us 52 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 8: a little bit more about what he's feeling right now? 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 8: Tell us about your feeling, Sam, you know, just tell 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 8: us anything you want to. 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 9: And then we'll come back and I'll give you a specific. 56 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 7: Answer to this question. And are going to the gas chamber. 57 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 7: Talk to us. 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 4: Just tell us what's going on inside of you right now? 59 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 10: Sam? 60 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 9: Please, I have a headache. 61 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 11: How long do you had those headaches? 62 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 9: Sam? 63 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 7: In a long time? 64 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 6: I killed a kid. If it all balls down to 65 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 6: the question that you're giving yourself up, if you could 66 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:42,279 Speaker 6: be assured that you wouldn't. 67 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 7: Get count for the punishment for myself, I want to 68 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 7: kill a kid. Bell I finally arranged to meet Zodiac 69 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 7: in Daily City, a suburb south of San Francisco, to 70 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 7: talk in person. So inside the thrift shop Saint Vincent 71 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 7: de Paul Tourney, Melvin Belli and the San Francisco police 72 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 7: waited for the Zodiac killer. 73 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 8: We were told to he would lead us at the 74 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 8: Saint Vincent de Paul Society locks in on Mission Street 75 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 8: in Daily City. We waited about, I guess over an 76 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 8: hour and no evidence that he was there. So, yeah, 77 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 8: is there anything more to this afternoon that leads you 78 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 8: to believe that the man who called indeed might have 79 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 8: been the legitimate Zodiac killer? Well again, you know my 80 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 8: opinion on a dime will buy you have a couple 81 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 8: of coffee. I don't really know. The only thing I 82 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 8: can conclude, as I'm sure anyone listening might have concluded, 83 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 8: is it's sounded like a fellow who does have a 84 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 8: pretty serious problem and is pretty seriously disturbed. Whether it's Zodiac, 85 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 8: I don't know. 86 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 7: The man did not show, So now all we can 87 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 7: do is wait, perhaps for that next phone call from 88 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 7: the man who calls himself Zodiac, who has killed five 89 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 7: says he's going to kill again, Dickchmaker, ABC News, San Francisco. 90 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more news. 91 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: In a moment, police brought in the witnesses who had 92 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: heard the Zodiac speak, Brian Hartnell, the survivor from the 93 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: Lake Barriesa stabbing, and two phone operators who had heard 94 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: the Zodiacs calls. No one knew whether it was the 95 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: real Zodiac. The Zodiac had now killed five people, and 96 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: his attacks seemed to be accelerating. Half a year separated 97 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: the first two shootings. Then only three months later was 98 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: the Lake Barriessa attack, and then just two weeks after that, 99 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: the Zodiac shot cab driver Paul Stein in San Francisco. 100 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: The La Times reported that the threat of his next 101 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: crime galvanized one of the most massive manhunts and one 102 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: of the greatest waves of public alarm in San Francisco history. 103 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: The manhunt extended as far as Atascadero, four hours south 104 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: of San Francisco. There, police checked up on three hundred 105 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: ex inmates of a hospital for the criminally insane, But 106 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: despite this intensive search, the case went cold until two 107 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: months later when Melvin Belli, the famous attorney you heard earlier, 108 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: received a strange letter The Zodiac had sent a letter 109 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: directly to Belli's home with a piece of the cab 110 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: driver's bloody shirt to prove its authenticity. 111 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 9: Dear Melboyn, this is the Zodiac speaking. I wish you 112 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 9: a happy Christmas. The one thing I ask of you 113 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 9: is this, Please help me. I cannot reach out for 114 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 9: help because of this thing in need. 115 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 4: Won't let me. 116 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 9: I am finding it extremely difficult to hold it in check. 117 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 9: I'm afraid I will lose control again and take my 118 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 9: ninth and possibly tenth victim. 119 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 4: Please help me. I am drowning at the moment. 120 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 9: The children are safe from the bomb because it is 121 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 9: so massive to dig in and the trigger mech requires 122 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 9: much work to get it adjusted just right. But if 123 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 9: I hold back too long from number nine, I will 124 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 9: lose complete all control of myself and set the bomb up. 125 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 4: Please help me. 126 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 9: I cannot remain in control for much longer, Signed Zodiac. 127 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: It seemed like maybe the Zodiac really was reaching out 128 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,119 Speaker 1: to the lawyer to get help, but the letter also 129 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: had his usual threats. He mentioned the bus bombs and 130 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: was now claiming eight victims. The Zodiac had included specific 131 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: details about his first five murders in his letters, but 132 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: then he said he would start to disguise his killings, 133 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: making them look like routine robberies, killings of anger, or accidents. 134 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: Because of this, police were unsure which recent. 135 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 4: Murders might be the Zodiacs. 136 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: After attorney Melvin bell I received the Zodiac's letter, he 137 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: published a response in the San Francisco Chronicle. He said 138 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: he was willing to meet the killer any time, any place. 139 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: Bell I said, if you want to meet with me alone, 140 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: I will come alone. He continued, I believe he wants 141 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: to stop killing. He knows eventually he will get apprehended, 142 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: and that unless he gets proper legal representation, he will 143 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: most probably be sentenced to die in the gas chamber. 144 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 1: Bell I was next contacted by telephone. While bell I 145 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: was out, a man claiming to be the Zodiac called 146 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: and asked to speak with him. Bell I alerted the 147 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: FBI and the San Francisco Police Department. They tapped his 148 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: phone so they could trace future calls, and again they waited, 149 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: hoping the Zodiac would call back. Eventually, another call came. 150 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: Police managed to trace the call and detect stives. Tosky 151 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: and Armstrong drove out to arrest the Zodiac. They arrived 152 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: at a mental hospital. The caller had been a patient, 153 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: a man named Eric wil He was a hippie and 154 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: an amateur photographer. The detectives determined that while was the 155 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: caller to the Jim Dunbar show, but ultimately they also 156 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: ruled him out as a suspect. The voice on the 157 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: television call in show was not the Zodiac. Reporters accounts 158 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: about Eric Wylde differ. Some say he was at a 159 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: mental hospital in Oakland, others say it was in Napa, 160 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: north of Valeo, and it's unclear exactly how the detectives 161 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: ruled out Eric Wyle as a suspect. But serial killer 162 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: expert Eric Hakey told us that while there's obviously something 163 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: wrong with them, it's rare for serial killers to be mentally. 164 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 10: Ill killers definitely, but they don't have mental illness. When 165 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 10: you talk about mental illness, we're talking about people who 166 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 10: they hear voices, they hallucinate, their schizophrenic, they're psychotic. That's 167 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 10: mental illness. We treat people for that, we get them 168 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 10: medications for it. But then there's another group of people 169 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 10: who have mental disorder, like serial killers. Now some percent 170 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 10: of them are Claire thinking, but they're they're narcissistic, they're 171 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 10: they're antisocial, and they have those kinds of issues going 172 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 10: on with them, but they know right from wrong. In 173 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 10: a court of law, they would not be found to 174 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 10: be insane. People get confused. I think, well, look at 175 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 10: Jeffrey Dahmer. If you killed seventeen people and eighthan for dinner, 176 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 10: you must be insane. Well, the behavior is insane. A 177 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 10: Dahmer was never mentally ill. He knew right from wrong. 178 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 10: He even admitted he always knew it was wrong to 179 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 10: do what he was doing. Now, yet there are other 180 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 10: people who are truly mentally ill when they do these 181 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 10: types of things. So that always has to be figured out. 182 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 10: And you're looking at a crime scene, is this someone 183 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 10: who's mentally ill or is this someone who's psychopathic. In 184 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 10: my field, we examine psychopathology. What level of psychopathology would 185 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 10: the Zodiact be? At one scale that's used or studies 186 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 10: psychopathology goes from zero to forty points. Most people are 187 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 10: going to be between a four and eight on the scale, 188 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 10: and then the occasional criminal that does things once in 189 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 10: a while they're going to rate in the low teens. 190 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 10: But then you get people who are kind of antisocial. 191 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 10: Most people in prisons today are what we call sociopaths. 192 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 10: You know, they probably rate eighteen to twenty nine on 193 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 10: that scale. They're impulsive, they don't learn from their mistakes, 194 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 10: they have high recidivism rates and so on. They are 195 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 10: anti social, but they still love their moms, they still 196 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 10: have emotional attachments to people, whereas a true psychopath, they're 197 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 10: thirty and above. And these people do not have emotional 198 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 10: attachments to people. They don't have empathy, they don't have 199 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 10: a conscience. There aren't that many of them out there, 200 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 10: and a lot of psychopaths. True psychopaths never get caught 201 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 10: because what differentiates them from sociopaths is that they have 202 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 10: a skill set that's incredible. They can manipulate and lie 203 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 10: and charm people, and they're so good at their social 204 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 10: skills that people just don't believe that they could be 205 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 10: doing anything wrong. And that's a smaller group called those psychopaths. 206 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 10: One of the mist about serial murder is that you 207 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 10: know they're all psychopaths. Well, this is not true. Only 208 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 10: twenty five thirty percent were found to be true psychopaths. 209 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Hickey says the Zodiac is likely a true psychopath. 210 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: You're the top of that forty point scale because of 211 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: his self obsession and craving for fame. 212 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 10: Narcissism is one of the traits we see in true psychopaths. 213 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 10: They are quite narcissistic and thus they want to be 214 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 10: recognized for what they've done. So it is not surprising 215 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 10: that the Zodiac killer that it's all about him because 216 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 10: he's smarter than the police, he's smarter than his victims. 217 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 10: He'll never get caught. That's kind of thinking that he's 218 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 10: better than everybody else, And the fact that he did 219 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 10: get him with it for this long shows that he 220 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 10: was right. 221 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: The whole TV call in saga and then subsequent contact 222 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: with Melvin Belly was puzzling. Investigators determined the caller to 223 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: both the TV show and to Belly's house was mental 224 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,359 Speaker 1: patient Eric Wyle, and that Wyle couldn't be the Zodiac, 225 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 1: but the actual Zodiac had written to Belly and he 226 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: included a piece of Paulstein's shirt as proof. What was 227 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: going on was the Zodiac's letter a real cry for help. 228 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: Had the Zodiac set up the TV call in but 229 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: then Eric Wyle interrupted it, or had Wyle set up 230 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: the call in, and then the Zodiac wrote to Belly 231 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: to try and stir up more media attention. The timing 232 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: of this letter to Belli was interesting. It was mailed 233 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: the day after another California killer's face was plastered on 234 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: the cover of Life. 235 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 6: Magazine, December nineteenth, nineteen sixty nine. Life Magazine the strange 236 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 6: story of Charlie Manson and his brood of New Bile 237 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 6: flower children charged with murder life in a sex and 238 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 6: drug devoted communal family that lived on the far edge 239 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 6: of society under the absolute, almost mystical domination of Charles Manson. 240 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 6: Manson gave the orders and the family carried them out. 241 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 6: Charlie Manson so disturbed the American millions last week when 242 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 6: he was charged with sending four dociled girls and a 243 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 6: hairy male acolyte off to slaughter strangers in two Los 244 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 6: Angeles houses last August. What failure of the human condition 245 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 6: could produce a Charles Manson? What possible aspects of such 246 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 6: a creature's example could induce sweet faced young women to 247 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 6: acts of such numbing cruelty. 248 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: The Manson story was a media sensation the next day 249 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: when the Zodiac sent his letter to Melvin BELLI was 250 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: he trying to regain the attention he seemed to so 251 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: desperately crave. The Manson trial and its press coverage stretched 252 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: on for months, and America was repeatedly shocked by new 253 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: revelations about the Manson family, but the Zodiac wasn't willing 254 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: to give up his place on the front page. If 255 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: you pay attention to when the Zodiac sent his letters, 256 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: it seems as if for every article published about Manson, 257 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: the Zodiac responded within days with a new letter, taunting 258 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: police with an ever increasing kill count and demanding the 259 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: press give him the coverage he felt he deserved. 260 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 6: April nineteenth, nineteen seventy. San Francisco Examiner cult chief's pal 261 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 6: guilty and. 262 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 4: Killing April twentieth, nineteen seventy. This is the Zodiac speaking. 263 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 6: Busile A twenty two testify it was Manson who killed Hinman. 264 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 6: The baby face defendant said, Manson, leader of a nomadic 265 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 6: hippie style clan, sought twenty thousand dollars from Hinman. Charles 266 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 6: pulled a sword from behind his leg and stabbed busil At, said, I. 267 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 9: Hope you do not think that I was the one 268 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 9: who wiped out that blue Mini with a bomb of 269 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 9: the cop station. Even though I talked about killing school 270 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 9: children with one, it just wouldn't do to move in 271 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 9: on someone else's territory. I've killed ten people to date. 272 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 6: April twenty first, nineteen seventy. Gas chamber for a musician. 273 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 9: Slayer April twenty eighth, nineteen seventy. I hope you enjoy 274 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 9: yourselves when I have my blast. 275 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 6: Boussolet maintained it was Manson who killed Hinman. 276 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 9: If you don't want me to have this blast, you 277 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 9: must do two things. One tell everyone about the bus 278 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 9: bomb with all the details. Two, I would like to 279 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 9: see some nice Zodiac buttons wandering around town. Everyone else 280 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 9: has these buttons like peace, black power, Melvin EAT's blubber 281 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 9: cheer me up considerably. If I saw a lot of 282 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 9: people wearing my button, please know nasty ones like Melvin's. 283 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 6: June twelfth, nineteen seventy. Manson battles with bailiffs. Charles Manson 284 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 6: fought with three bailiffs trying to force him into his seat, 285 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 6: then was led shouting out of court along with three others, 286 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 6: charged with murdered conspiracy and the slayings of actress Sharon 287 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 6: Tate and six others. The women sat down, then jumped 288 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 6: up again. Miss Krinwinkle raised her arms and addressed newsmen 289 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 6: seated in the jury section. We gave our lives once before. 290 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 6: Don't you know who we are? You put us on 291 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 6: the cross once before. Why don't you do it again? 292 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 9: June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy. This is the Zodiac speaking. 293 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 9: I have become very upset with the people of San 294 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 9: fran Bay area. They have not complied with my wishes 295 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 9: for them to wear some nice Zodiac buttons. I promised 296 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 9: to punish them if they did not comply by annihilating 297 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 9: a full school bus, but now school is out for 298 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 9: the summer, so I punished them in an I shot 299 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 9: a man sitting in a parked car with a thirty 300 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 9: eight Zodiac twelve. 301 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 4: San Francisco Police Department zero. 302 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 6: July twenty fourth, nineteen seven. State tells bizarre Tate killing's motive. 303 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 6: Charles Manson hoped to touch off a Negro white blood 304 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 6: bath in the United States by making it appear that 305 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 6: blacks had committed the Tate LaBianca murders. Manson, thirty five, 306 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 6: appeared in court with a red cross slashed on his forehead, 307 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 6: framed by his dangling hair. Manson did it with two 308 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 6: slashes of a razor blade. Manson has in the past 309 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 6: called himself Christ and Jesus. 310 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 9: July twenty fourth, nineteen seventy. I am rather unhappy because 311 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,239 Speaker 9: you people will not wear some nice Zodiac buttons. So 312 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 9: I now have a little list, starting with a woman 313 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 9: and her baby that I gave a rather interesting ride 314 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 9: for a couple hours one evening a few months back. 315 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 6: July twenty fifth, nineteen seventy, Manson wanted race war with 316 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 6: a Beatles song spinning in his mind, Charles Manson and 317 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 6: ordered the murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others 318 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 6: in hopes of igniting a black white war. To Manson, 319 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 6: Helter Skelter, one of the Beatles' songs, meant the black 320 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 6: man rising up against the white establishment and murdering the 321 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 6: entire white race. Manson believed the race war would wipe 322 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 6: out all whites except Manson and his clan, who intended 323 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 6: to escape by going to the desert. Helter Skelter was 324 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 6: scrawled in blood on a wall at the home of 325 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 6: two of the victims. The scrawlings and other evidence were 326 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 6: aimed at making it look like black people had murdered 327 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 6: the five tape victims. 328 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 4: July twenty sixth, nineteen seventy. 329 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 9: Being that you will not wear some nice Zodiac buttons, 330 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 9: how about wearing some nasty Zodiac buttons. If you do 331 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 9: not wear any buttons, I shall, on top of everything else, 332 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 9: torture all thirteen of my slaves that I have waiting 333 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 9: for me in paradise. Some I shall tie over an 334 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 9: hills and watch them scream and twitch and squirm. Others 335 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 9: shall be placed in cages and feds salt beef until 336 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 9: they are gorged. And then I shall listen to their 337 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 9: pleas for water, and I shall laugh at them. Others 338 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 9: will hang by their thumbs and burn in the sun. 339 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 9: Then I will rub them down with deep heat to 340 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 9: warm them up. And all billiard players, I shall have 341 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 9: them play in a dark and dungeon cell with crooked 342 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 9: cues and twisted shoes. Yes, I shall have great fun 343 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 9: inflicting the most delicious of pain to my slaves. San 344 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 9: Francisco Police Department, zero Zodiac. 345 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 6: Thirteen October twenty seventh, nineteen seven. Witness describes Manson's visions 346 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 6: of racial warfare. Manson had compounded a theory of eminent 347 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 6: racial strife from the Bible and the Beatles. After the killings, 348 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 6: whites were to go into the black ghetto and kill 349 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 6: then the blacks would wipe out the white survivors. But 350 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 6: after the blacks had won, they would not like the 351 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 6: responsibility of governing and would call Manson and his followers 352 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 6: from the desert. Houston said he was under the influence 353 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 6: of LSD in June sixty nine when he met Manson 354 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 6: in the Sunset Boulevard home of a member of the 355 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 6: Beach Boys rock group. He asked me if I could 356 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 6: make love in front of twenty five people, said Postin 357 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 6: He said he thought Manson was Jesus Christ. 358 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 9: October twenty seventh, nineteen seventy Paradise Slaves by fire, by gun, 359 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 9: by knife, by rope peek a boo, you are doomed 360 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 9: fourteen boo signed Z. 361 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: Melvin Bellie wasn't the only one to receive a personal 362 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: message from the Zodiac. That last correspondence you heard from 363 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: the Zodiac was actually a Halloween card, a black card 364 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: with a dancing skeleton. The writer had used white out 365 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: to draw cryptic symbols and thirteen peering eyes. He sent 366 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: it to Paul Avery, a reporter at the San Francisco 367 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: Chronicle who'd been covering the Zodiac. Duffy Jennings remembers when 368 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: Avery received the card. 369 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 12: During the course of my a couple of years as 370 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 12: a copy boy, I got to know all the reporters 371 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 12: pretty well, and that included Paul Avery. He'd been a 372 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 12: war correspondent in Vietnam and he loved to do crime stuff. 373 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 12: He kind of took a shine to me and we 374 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 12: became sort of friends. He was a few years older 375 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 12: around nineteen seventy. As I started to work as a 376 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 12: reporter and we became closer friends. I'd go with him 377 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 12: out following the leads about certain suspects or types of 378 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 12: evidence that would come in. Only one Zodiac letter was 379 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 12: actually personal to Paul Avery. It was a Halloween card 380 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 12: he sent and had kind of a creepy message to it, peekaboo, 381 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 12: You're doomed, I think it said. 382 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 3: The two homicide inspectors who were working with the Zodiac 383 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 3: case came in and tapped me on the shoulder and 384 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 3: pulled me outside and said we received another letter from 385 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 3: the Zodiac, and it was a to you. It was 386 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 3: a Halloween card interpreted as being a threat to me. 387 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 3: At that point, he had been claiming thirteen victims. This 388 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 3: one mentioned fourteen, and the presumption was that either he 389 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 3: had killed fourteen people at that point and maybe I 390 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: was number fifteen, or maybe I was supposed to be 391 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 3: number fourteen. 392 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 12: At that time in the seventies, reporters didn't get killed 393 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 12: in the line of duty. I think maybe in that 394 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 12: whole decade there might have been, up to that point, 395 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 12: one reporter, a guy named Don Bowles at the Phoenix, 396 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 12: who had his car blown up by some organized crime 397 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 12: figures he'd been writing about. But otherwise, reporters it wasn't 398 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 12: an unsafe job. As we talked, there's an assault on 399 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 12: the media going on, and there's a lot of fear 400 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 12: of what people might do. But at that time in 401 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 12: the seventies, you never thought about your own safety. So 402 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 12: when Avery was threatened, somebody in our newsroom engaged in 403 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 12: a bit of sort of Maudlin newsroom humor, which you 404 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 12: know we are one to do, and they had these 405 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 12: buttons made up, big white buttons like campaign buttons, and 406 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 12: it said, in big black block letters, I am not Avery. 407 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 12: We all got one and wore them when we had 408 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 12: a great laugh about it, and Herb Caine, who was 409 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 12: the big gossip columnist, wrote an item about it, and 410 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 12: then TV stations sent crews over to do stories about 411 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 12: the buttons, and then it became national news that all 412 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 12: the people there chronicle were wearing these I'm not Avery buttons. 413 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 12: Avery himself wore a button and I said, are you 414 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 12: concerned about this at all? He goes nah, He said, 415 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 12: I'm not worried about it, but I have to tell 416 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 12: you that in addition to wearing a button, Paul started 417 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 12: to wear a holster. He got a handgun permit from 418 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 12: the police chief. 419 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 3: I think the Zodiac is just making an idle threat, frankly, 420 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: but at the same time, I'm no fool. I'm going 421 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 3: to be very careful. There was a conference with the 422 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 3: police department, a discussion of possible police protection for me. 423 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 3: He was finally decided that this, you know, at this 424 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 3: time at least is un warranted. Somebody takes a shot 425 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 3: at me, that'll be a different case. But at this 426 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 3: point is we don't feel any need for protection. 427 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 12: And I have to tell you that whenever I went 428 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 12: out of the building with Paul. I had to kind 429 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 12: of look around. You didn't think Zodiac was the kind 430 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 12: of guy who was going to target someone in particular, 431 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 12: But what if he did, and what if he missed? 432 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 12: What if you were with the guy? All this goes 433 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 12: through your head. 434 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 3: He is bragged of killing up to possibly fourteen people, 435 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 3: but there's absolutely no evidence that he's killed more than five. 436 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 3: I put no credence in this. I think he just 437 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 3: wanted to get himself a little publicity. Well the killings 438 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 3: that have gone on in this area in recent weeks 439 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: that have created a very big headlines. Possibly he's a 440 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 3: little miffed he's not the center of attention anymore. 441 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: The Zodiac had been continuously bragging about new murders in 442 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: the eleven letters and cards he sent in just over 443 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: a year, but he'd stopped supplying any evidence. Had he 444 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: made good on his threat to disguise his murders as 445 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: routine killings, or had he stopped killing altogether and the 446 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: letters were just for attention. We spoke to criminal psychologist 447 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: James Fox about whether serial killers ever do just stop killing. 448 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 11: I started studying multiple homicide, including serial murder, back in 449 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 11: the early nineteen eighties. Back then people essentially believed that 450 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 11: repeat killers were glassy at lunatics, and we found actually 451 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 11: that they were extraordinarily ordinary, and that was why they're 452 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 11: so dangerous. If they looked and acted like the serial 453 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 11: killers in the movies Jason or Freddy Krueger, we'd avoid 454 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 11: them like the plague. But the fact that they blend 455 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 11: in so well and have an outward appearance of being 456 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 11: a nice guy makes them extramely dangerous. Many of them 457 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 11: were quintessential sociopaths. They cared only for their own pleasures, 458 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 11: no matter who they hurt in the process. And they 459 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 11: also had a satiable need for power and control and dominance, 460 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 11: and oftentimes satisfied those nees through rape and torture and mayhem. 461 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 11: But one thing that's fairly clear is that lots of 462 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 11: people have this excessive need for power and control and dominance, 463 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 11: but they're able to satisfy it in socially legitimate ways. 464 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 11: They may be a corporate executive who hires and fires 465 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 11: and enjoys the idea of hurting other people through these firings, 466 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 11: or they may be a college professor who enjoys funking 467 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 11: a student and seeing them squirm. But the thing about 468 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 11: serial killers is they don't have that ability. They don't 469 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 11: have an outlet to satisfy their needs for power and dominance. 470 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 11: To give it a good example, Dennis Raider, the BTK killer, 471 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 11: always wanted to be I'm a police officer, but wasn't 472 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 11: able to make it onto the force. He started killing victims. 473 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 11: But after many years, when he got a position as 474 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 11: a compliance officer in his neighborhood and he could give 475 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 11: people citations if their grass was too long, gave him 476 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 11: the authority that he always wanted to have, and then 477 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 11: he stopped killing. He stopped killing because he had another 478 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 11: way to satisfy that power he wanted over other people. 479 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Were The Zodiac's letters. His outlet did manipulating the police 480 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: and the media quench his desire for power and control. 481 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: Here's Zodiac expert Michael Butterfield. 482 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 13: The Zodiac went from being a nameless killer on a 483 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 13: road at night, to being a bizarre killer wearing a 484 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 13: costume during daylight, to killing a cab driver in a 485 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 13: populated area, to threatening school children, and then becoming a 486 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 13: modern terrorist. After his last known murder cab driver Paul Stein. 487 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 13: The Zodiac wrote a lot of letters but didn't appear 488 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 13: to engage in any further attacks. There was never any 489 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 13: bomb found along any roadsides. There's never any attempts to 490 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 13: bomb any school buses or anything. But he sure created 491 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 13: weeks and months of terror in the Bay Area that 492 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 13: is remembered to this day. And I think that was 493 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,239 Speaker 13: part of his goal. These bombs served the purpose of 494 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 13: removing him from the equation. He doesn't have to be 495 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 13: there anymore. He knew that all he would have to 496 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 13: do is draw a little bomb and mail it to 497 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 13: a newspaper, and it would not only create instant terror, 498 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 13: but it would be covered all over the place. Even 499 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 13: though the Zodiac probably had stopped killing and was sitting 500 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 13: at home just watching TV and reading the newspaper, do 501 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 13: you still feel scared of it? Has no resolution, no end, 502 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 13: because you still think he's out there. He became someone 503 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 13: who could be around any corner and in any shadow 504 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 13: at any time. But the Zodiac was also sort of 505 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 13: drowned out at times by other major crime stories. A 506 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 13: lot of people were paying more attention to things like 507 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 13: the Manson trial and all the chaos and insanity of that. 508 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 13: And then as the sixties came to an end in 509 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 13: the seventies came around. That was the age of the 510 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 13: serial killer, and I think the Zodiac was sort of 511 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 13: overshadowed by all of this, and perhaps he sensed that 512 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 13: in some way that time had moved on, that America 513 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 13: had become even more violent than he was and moved 514 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 13: to another level, and maybe that's why he in a 515 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 13: sense stepped away from it. But then in March of 516 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 13: nineteen seventy, a young woman claimed that she had been 517 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 13: driving along a freeway and a vehicle pulled. 518 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 4: Up alongside her. 519 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 13: The man inside gestured towards her vehicle as if there 520 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 13: was something wrong, so she pulled over. The man pulled 521 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 13: over and said, hey, your tires loose. That gave him 522 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 13: a perfect opportunity to pretend to be the good Samaritan 523 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 13: and offer her a. 524 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 5: Ride next time on Monster the Zodiac killer. 525 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 13: Investigators at Riverside were watching and saying, this looks kind 526 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 13: of familiar, and maybe these crimes are connected. 527 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 9: A young, inexperienced Zodiac murdered Edwards and Domingos more than 528 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 9: five years before his reign of terror in San Francisco. 529 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 3: It said, Bates had to die. There will be more 530 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 3: right at the bottom, is z. 531 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 8: In his monotone, no killing, no looking at me, Ryan 532 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 8: or on. 533 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 3: He said to you that he was going to kill you. 534 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 2: You're gonna die. 535 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 9: You know I'm gonna kill you and throw that maybe out. 536 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 5: Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode podcast produced 537 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 5: by iHeartRadio, hou Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. Donald Alright 538 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 5: and I are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, 539 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 5: alongside producers Meredith Stebman, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana. Jason 540 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 5: Hope is executive producer on behalf of How Stuff Works, 541 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 5: along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Keebrick, and 542 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 5: Josh Thain. Scott Benjamin provides additional voice talent. Matt Frederick 543 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 5: is our host. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. 544 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 5: If you haven't already, make sure to check out the 545 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 5: first season of Monster called Atlanta Monster, about the Atlanta 546 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 5: child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties. 547 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 5: Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or 548 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 5: comments email us at Monster at houstuffworks dot com, or 549 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 5: you can call us at one eight three, three, two 550 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 5: eight five six six sixty seven. 551 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 12: Thanks for listening.