WEBVTT - Hardy 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.196 --> 0:00:22.396 Before Hardy was known as the breakout artist who pushed 0:00:22.436 --> 0:00:25.236 country music into hard rock territory, he was a self 0:00:25.236 --> 0:00:29.436 proclaimed redneck from Philadelphia, Mississippi, who studied songwriting at Middle 0:00:29.436 --> 0:00:33.636 Tennessee State University. Since moving to Nashville in twenty thirteen, 0:00:33.676 --> 0:00:37.036 he's written sixteen number ones for artists like Morgan Wallend, 0:00:37.116 --> 0:00:40.796 Blake Shelton, and Dirk Spentley. In twenty eighteen, with the 0:00:40.876 --> 0:00:44.236 encouragement of producer Joey Moy and his label Big Loud, 0:00:44.396 --> 0:00:47.876 Hardy started writing songs for himself and it paid off. 0:00:48.556 --> 0:00:50.796 He's now a five time ACM Award winner and a 0:00:50.836 --> 0:00:53.676 two time CMA Award winner, joining the upper echelon of 0:00:53.716 --> 0:00:56.876 Big Loud artists that Moy has helped build, alongside Morgan 0:00:56.916 --> 0:01:00.876 Wallan and Florida Georgia Line. Today's episode, Leo Rose talks 0:01:00.916 --> 0:01:03.436 to Hardy about the craft of writing a song that sticks, 0:01:03.636 --> 0:01:06.876 including what he's learned from studying artists like Eminem. They 0:01:06.876 --> 0:01:08.996 also get into how AI is showing up in Nashville 0:01:09.556 --> 0:01:12.756 rooms and why Hardy thinks bro country isn't going anywhere 0:01:12.836 --> 0:01:21.796 anytime soon. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. 0:01:25.516 --> 0:01:28.396 Here's Leo Rhodes with Hardy. Head over to YouTube dot 0:01:28.436 --> 0:01:30.956 com slash Broken Record Podcast if you want to see 0:01:30.956 --> 0:01:31.396 the video. 0:01:32.876 --> 0:01:37.076 Brad Paisley has the uh well I'm gonna miss her, 0:01:37.356 --> 0:01:40.076 you know the song about uh. She says if you know, 0:01:40.156 --> 0:01:42.556 it's like if if you if you go fishing today, 0:01:42.556 --> 0:01:44.396 we're over, and then he just says I'm gonna miss her. 0:01:44.436 --> 0:01:47.436 I'm like, that's that's like some shit I would do, 0:01:47.516 --> 0:01:48.076 you know what I mean? 0:01:48.156 --> 0:01:51.396 Especially as and so I started that's when I started 0:01:51.436 --> 0:01:53.276 getting into country. It was just when it kind of started, 0:01:53.476 --> 0:01:55.356 just the lyrics got a little more clever and it 0:01:55.436 --> 0:01:58.156 just appealed to like people that grew up country. 0:01:58.236 --> 0:02:00.436 So is the bro country era? Like that's over? 0:02:01.036 --> 0:02:01.356 Okay? 0:02:01.436 --> 0:02:03.356 So I I you know, I'm glad you asked. I 0:02:03.396 --> 0:02:04.956 have not commented on this yet. 0:02:12.396 --> 0:02:16.956 I know you studied songwriting at school for a period 0:02:17.036 --> 0:02:18.516 of time. But how did you how do you go 0:02:18.596 --> 0:02:20.876 from just being like a regular like high school kid 0:02:20.916 --> 0:02:22.716 to like making the move to Nashville, Like, how do 0:02:22.756 --> 0:02:24.396 you even know that any of this existed? 0:02:24.636 --> 0:02:27.396 Well, so, my sister moved to Nashville before I did. 0:02:28.436 --> 0:02:29.836 She's a year and a half older than me. She 0:02:29.876 --> 0:02:34.036 was two grades above me. She was a singer. She 0:02:34.116 --> 0:02:36.836 was really talented, still is a really talented singer, and 0:02:37.756 --> 0:02:42.316 you know, she she moved to town and I was 0:02:42.356 --> 0:02:45.836 in like junior college and just didn't know what I 0:02:45.836 --> 0:02:47.836 wanted to do. And at the same time, I had 0:02:47.916 --> 0:02:50.596 kind of gotten you know, decent at guitar and had 0:02:50.596 --> 0:02:52.796 written a couple songs I mean that literally is it, 0:02:53.716 --> 0:02:55.476 and was sending them to her. You know, I was 0:02:55.476 --> 0:02:57.356 recording them on back then. I don't even know what 0:02:57.396 --> 0:02:59.596 I recorded it on. It was before iPhones, and. 0:03:00.956 --> 0:03:03.596 But I sent them to her and she basically hit 0:03:03.676 --> 0:03:04.156 me up. One day. 0:03:04.156 --> 0:03:05.716 I was just like, hey, you know, there's a whole 0:03:05.716 --> 0:03:09.436 industry here, like the songwriting, the publishing industry, where you 0:03:09.476 --> 0:03:11.316 get people get paid to write songs, and most of 0:03:11.316 --> 0:03:13.356 the songs you hear on the radio aren't written by 0:03:13.356 --> 0:03:14.956 that artist, or at least it was written by like 0:03:14.956 --> 0:03:16.636 some normal guys and girls that just go to the 0:03:16.676 --> 0:03:17.556 grocery store every day. 0:03:17.556 --> 0:03:20.716 And you know, I didn't listen to country music growing up. 0:03:20.716 --> 0:03:22.036 I grew up in a small town, and I grew 0:03:22.116 --> 0:03:23.836 up hunting and fishing and doing all the stuff. But 0:03:23.996 --> 0:03:26.636 I didn't listen to country music because it didn't appeal 0:03:26.676 --> 0:03:28.396 to me at all. There was nothing I got out 0:03:28.436 --> 0:03:30.036 of it until like Eric Church and some of these 0:03:30.036 --> 0:03:31.716 guys that started kind of singing about being a good 0:03:31.756 --> 0:03:34.076 old boy came along, and then I was like, Okay, 0:03:34.076 --> 0:03:36.196 I do this stuff, so I resonate with it. But 0:03:37.036 --> 0:03:40.516 I learned more about songwriting by locking myself in a 0:03:40.596 --> 0:03:43.436 room for four years and just listening to country music 0:03:43.476 --> 0:03:46.116 and trying to more or less replicate that in. 0:03:46.076 --> 0:03:48.716 My own way than I did in school. 0:03:50.156 --> 0:03:51.916 I don't know, I feel like I got very lucky 0:03:51.916 --> 0:03:53.716 and I just made a snap decision and I just 0:03:53.756 --> 0:03:54.596 sort of wound up here. 0:03:54.636 --> 0:03:55.956 I mean I worked really hard. 0:03:55.756 --> 0:03:58.156 You know, with once I signed a publishing deal and 0:03:58.196 --> 0:04:00.756 all that, and really never gave up and never thought 0:04:00.756 --> 0:04:03.076 about giving up and all that good stuff. But I 0:04:03.156 --> 0:04:06.436 just I made such a snap decision and it just which, 0:04:06.636 --> 0:04:08.476 you know, that's I just felt like it was just 0:04:08.516 --> 0:04:08.916 meant to be. 0:04:10.476 --> 0:04:13.756 I also saw you that used to be really into 0:04:13.876 --> 0:04:15.876 like new metal, like you went through a phase I 0:04:15.876 --> 0:04:17.556 guess when you were a teenager. 0:04:17.196 --> 0:04:20.676 Still in it. You're still in it of course, all 0:04:20.716 --> 0:04:21.276 this stuff. 0:04:22.076 --> 0:04:23.676 I was so happy for you that you did a 0:04:23.676 --> 0:04:25.916 song with fred Durst. I was like, that must have 0:04:25.996 --> 0:04:26.676 been so cool. 0:04:27.196 --> 0:04:27.436 It was. 0:04:27.596 --> 0:04:31.596 It was a moment where they're like, you know, there's 0:04:31.636 --> 0:04:34.036 a lot of highs and there's a lot of wow. 0:04:34.076 --> 0:04:35.716 I can't believe I met this person or I wrote 0:04:35.756 --> 0:04:37.476 a song for this person, or what I'm doing a 0:04:37.476 --> 0:04:38.236 song with this person. 0:04:38.276 --> 0:04:40.796 But man, the Fred one was different. 0:04:40.876 --> 0:04:42.876 And I was like in Italy at the time, and 0:04:42.956 --> 0:04:44.996 my at the time, a guy that was working at 0:04:45.036 --> 0:04:46.876 my label. We had reached out to him, but I 0:04:46.916 --> 0:04:48.716 had no connection to him other than the guy that 0:04:48.796 --> 0:04:49.716 was working in my label. 0:04:50.476 --> 0:04:52.076 He texted me just said, hey, if you get a. 0:04:51.996 --> 0:04:54.676 Phone call today from like whatever number, like answer it, 0:04:54.676 --> 0:04:56.396 It's gonna be Fred Durst. And I was like what 0:04:57.076 --> 0:04:59.996 and so I it was like one of the coolest 0:05:00.756 --> 0:05:01.396 things ever. 0:05:01.476 --> 0:05:03.316 I mean, it was such a huge Lambiscuit fan. I 0:05:03.396 --> 0:05:05.036 still am. I love the stuff they's put out to 0:05:05.076 --> 0:05:08.036 this day. But yeah, all that stuff, I mean that 0:05:08.116 --> 0:05:08.676 really that was. 0:05:08.756 --> 0:05:11.516 I was new metal was when I was like age 0:05:11.636 --> 0:05:13.836 nine to like, you know, fourteen, So those are very 0:05:14.476 --> 0:05:16.716 very absorbing music years. 0:05:16.676 --> 0:05:19.116 For me, and so I took in a lot of that. 0:05:19.236 --> 0:05:22.796 It just it was, man, something about like all that 0:05:22.796 --> 0:05:26.596 stuff Lincoln Park. I mean I had I begged my 0:05:26.676 --> 0:05:28.916 parents for the Hybrid Theory record when I was like 0:05:28.996 --> 0:05:30.676 ten years old, and the guy gave it to me, 0:05:30.716 --> 0:05:33.396 and and uh, it just it changed my life. 0:05:33.436 --> 0:05:35.316 I mean I was obsessed with that stuff. I still am. 0:05:35.356 --> 0:05:37.516 I love it. I love new metal so much. 0:05:38.236 --> 0:05:41.036 That's so cool. I hear very few people like people 0:05:41.076 --> 0:05:43.116 like to shit on new metal, but I love that 0:05:43.156 --> 0:05:44.516 you're into it. 0:05:44.756 --> 0:05:46.356 I mean, you can shit on it all you want. 0:05:46.436 --> 0:05:50.356 But like, I know for a fact that both Lincoln 0:05:50.396 --> 0:05:52.716 Park and lit Biscuit at separate times were the biggest 0:05:52.716 --> 0:05:53.516 bands in the world. 0:05:54.196 --> 0:05:55.956 Yeah, System of a Down, same thing. 0:05:56.036 --> 0:05:58.756 They're kind, they're I guess they're new metal ish, they're 0:05:58.796 --> 0:06:01.676 they're just their own thing. They're huge, But yeah, they're 0:06:01.996 --> 0:06:06.036 that that era of rock and roll, aside from like 0:06:06.356 --> 0:06:10.596 a little bit after that with like Nickelback and Three 0:06:10.636 --> 0:06:15.636 Doors Down, that was like the last era of bands 0:06:15.636 --> 0:06:19.316 that were just absolutely worldwide, gigantic, so you can shop 0:06:19.396 --> 0:06:21.116 on it all your own, but that shit was worldwide 0:06:21.156 --> 0:06:24.396 and they crushed it. So you know, a lot more 0:06:24.396 --> 0:06:25.436 people liked it than didn't. 0:06:25.436 --> 0:06:26.036 I'll tell you that. 0:06:26.836 --> 0:06:29.636 What about metal, Like, were you into like Slipknot. Were 0:06:29.636 --> 0:06:32.116 you into like more like harder metal stuff. 0:06:32.596 --> 0:06:37.236 Yes, I love my Suga a lot. 0:06:37.836 --> 0:06:43.596 Oh wow, I didn't get into Slipknot as much until 0:06:44.876 --> 0:06:47.676 I was older. I know that was kind of happening 0:06:47.716 --> 0:06:49.636 at the same time, but I just I wasn't into 0:06:49.716 --> 0:06:54.396 slip Knot quite as much. But let's see, high school 0:06:54.556 --> 0:06:56.956 like a kid made me a burnt set. I was 0:06:56.996 --> 0:07:01.316 more like in the post hardcore era or like you know, 0:07:01.356 --> 0:07:05.516 like people call it death core early like a day 0:07:05.556 --> 0:07:07.956 to remember, like like August Burns. 0:07:07.716 --> 0:07:10.716 Red and I don't know. 0:07:10.716 --> 0:07:13.276 There's so many and I rode that way for for 0:07:13.356 --> 0:07:15.756 quite some time, and I still listen to a lot 0:07:15.796 --> 0:07:16.356 of stuff now. 0:07:16.516 --> 0:07:17.836 I love Spirit Box. 0:07:17.916 --> 0:07:22.276 I think it's dope. I like Falling in Reverse. I 0:07:22.276 --> 0:07:24.436 if another one that people like to shit on, but 0:07:24.516 --> 0:07:27.076 I think it's like the fresh freshest ship that's been 0:07:27.196 --> 0:07:28.036 come out in a long time. 0:07:28.036 --> 0:07:31.436 To Sleep Token, oh, I don't know, Sleep Token, Oh 0:07:31.516 --> 0:07:34.796 my god, you have to listen to Sleep Talking so sick. 0:07:35.636 --> 0:07:38.156 They are so sick, the huge. 0:07:37.876 --> 0:07:40.476 Like genre blenders, but they're really cool. But yeah, I 0:07:40.516 --> 0:07:42.556 love all that stuff. If it grooves like I can't 0:07:42.556 --> 0:07:44.996 listen to I'm not a big like black metal or 0:07:45.076 --> 0:07:46.996 just nothing that really ever grooves. 0:07:47.156 --> 0:07:49.596 That's why I love Michelle so much is their rifts. 0:07:49.276 --> 0:07:52.996 Were so like clean and and just groovy, and I 0:07:53.036 --> 0:07:53.876 just I love that kind. 0:07:53.716 --> 0:07:56.476 Of Yeah, were you kind of like an outcast in 0:07:56.516 --> 0:07:58.556 high school? Like what was your what were and what 0:07:58.596 --> 0:08:00.316 were you dressing? Like, like did you have like the 0:08:00.396 --> 0:08:02.436 spikey Lincoln Park hair? 0:08:02.596 --> 0:08:05.156 No, I was. I was kind of a regular Southern boy. 0:08:05.156 --> 0:08:07.756 People in high school like to tell me that, uh 0:08:08.116 --> 0:08:09.476 that I was a little bit differ friend and I 0:08:09.516 --> 0:08:11.396 was kind of a rocker kid, and I guess maybe 0:08:11.436 --> 0:08:14.876 I was, But no, I just music was ironically kind 0:08:14.876 --> 0:08:17.556 of a big Like it was big in my hometown, 0:08:17.596 --> 0:08:20.516 and like people loved music and all different kinds and 0:08:20.556 --> 0:08:21.836 there was a little bit of a scene. You know. 0:08:21.876 --> 0:08:23.796 There was a couple of seen kids and metal kids 0:08:23.836 --> 0:08:25.676 that that I went to high school with. 0:08:25.716 --> 0:08:27.676 But they were also like they were cool, you know, 0:08:27.796 --> 0:08:29.956 and and uh are just you know, they were popular, 0:08:29.996 --> 0:08:30.516 they had friends. 0:08:30.556 --> 0:08:32.956 It was just it was sort of different. But no, 0:08:33.116 --> 0:08:35.876 I was. I felt like I belonged just right where 0:08:35.916 --> 0:08:37.036 I was and had a good I. 0:08:37.036 --> 0:08:39.156 Mean, I was in I was in like FFA and shit, 0:08:39.316 --> 0:08:41.836 I was I was a country kid. 0:08:41.876 --> 0:08:45.436 I just, uh wait, that's Farmers future Farmers of America. 0:08:45.516 --> 0:08:47.036 It's my favorite class school. 0:08:47.756 --> 0:08:48.436 Oh nice. 0:08:49.916 --> 0:08:52.996 Most of my close buddies though, were like, bro, turn 0:08:53.036 --> 0:08:54.796 the ship off when I would play stuff like that. 0:08:54.876 --> 0:08:57.516 But I just you know, I loved it, and I 0:08:57.556 --> 0:08:59.116 have I had my metal buddies, and I had my 0:08:59.236 --> 0:09:01.476 my hunting buddies and you know all that kind of stuff. 0:09:02.196 --> 0:09:04.196 How old are you when you're allowed to start hunting? 0:09:04.916 --> 0:09:05.276 Seven? 0:09:05.916 --> 0:09:09.516 Maybe I have an eight year old right now. 0:09:09.556 --> 0:09:13.076 I'm like, oh no, I think I said my first 0:09:13.076 --> 0:09:15.956 deer when I was seven hunting by myself. 0:09:15.996 --> 0:09:20.556 I think I was like twelve. Wow. Obviously like my you. 0:09:20.516 --> 0:09:23.156 Know, I would go with my dad and we would 0:09:23.156 --> 0:09:24.356 go separate ways or whatever. 0:09:24.436 --> 0:09:28.236 But but yeah, a really really young age. It's it's 0:09:28.236 --> 0:09:29.356 a big part of my family. 0:09:29.636 --> 0:09:29.756 Uh. 0:09:29.796 --> 0:09:33.196 The men in my specifically, we all were in still 0:09:33.236 --> 0:09:34.676 are big deer hunters. 0:09:35.076 --> 0:09:38.276 Yep. So you talked a little bit about the country 0:09:38.316 --> 0:09:40.956 that was popular when you were growing up and how 0:09:40.956 --> 0:09:43.396 you didn't identify with it. I guess was that like 0:09:43.436 --> 0:09:45.676 what was that era? Like how would you classify the 0:09:46.476 --> 0:09:48.116 music like it was nineties? 0:09:48.196 --> 0:09:48.356 Right? 0:09:48.436 --> 0:09:50.516 Yeah, late nineties, early two thousands. It was a lot 0:09:50.556 --> 0:09:52.396 of like honky tongue music. I mean, I grew up 0:09:52.396 --> 0:09:54.716 in a dry county. I didn't drink. I wasn't I 0:09:54.756 --> 0:09:57.036 didn't start drinking early, you know what I mean. I'd 0:09:57.116 --> 0:10:00.956 start drinking like or having had my first few beers. 0:10:00.996 --> 0:10:03.756 I guess you would say, like eighteen nineteen years old, 0:10:03.756 --> 0:10:06.796 like most most kids, you know, maybe twenty, but. 0:10:06.796 --> 0:10:07.996 You're hunting at seven. 0:10:08.636 --> 0:10:10.876 Yeah, seven. But I didn't start drinking until I was 0:10:11.076 --> 0:10:14.676 you know, Yeah. It just didn't appeal to me there. 0:10:14.716 --> 0:10:16.596 I'd never been in a bar, you know, And and 0:10:16.876 --> 0:10:18.596 it was either that or it was very It was 0:10:18.716 --> 0:10:21.596 like a lot of adult It appealed more to adults 0:10:21.636 --> 0:10:24.436 back then. I feel like the subject matter and and 0:10:24.996 --> 0:10:27.636 uh huh, I just didn't. It just didn't resonate with me, 0:10:27.716 --> 0:10:29.436 you know, Brooks and Done who I now go back 0:10:29.476 --> 0:10:32.396 and I'm like, this music is awesome. But a sixteen 0:10:32.436 --> 0:10:34.076 year old kid, you know, I don't know anything about 0:10:34.076 --> 0:10:36.916 boot Scoot and Boy. I've never I've never swing danced 0:10:36.996 --> 0:10:38.956 or whatever that whatever that song is about. 0:10:40.116 --> 0:10:42.276 I don't know. It just it was it just did 0:10:42.356 --> 0:10:44.396 not appeal to me at all. It was just very 0:10:44.436 --> 0:10:47.716 adult and not until Brad. 0:10:47.396 --> 0:10:51.756 Paisley has the uh I'm gonna miss her, you know 0:10:51.836 --> 0:10:54.516 the song about uh. She says if you know, it's 0:10:54.596 --> 0:10:56.916 like if if you if you go fishing today were 0:10:56.956 --> 0:10:58.636 over and then he just says, I'm gonna miss her. 0:10:58.636 --> 0:11:00.356 I'm like, that's. 0:11:00.356 --> 0:11:01.956 That's like some ship I would do, you know what 0:11:01.996 --> 0:11:05.276 I mean, especially as and so I started that's when 0:11:05.276 --> 0:11:06.316 I started getting into the country. 0:11:06.356 --> 0:11:07.916 It was just when it kind of started to just. 0:11:07.876 --> 0:11:09.756 The lyrics got a little more clar and it just 0:11:09.796 --> 0:11:12.276 appealed to like people that grew up country. 0:11:12.316 --> 0:11:14.196 I feel like that was not a thing in the nineties. 0:11:14.196 --> 0:11:15.076 There wasn't a lot. 0:11:14.876 --> 0:11:18.676 Of country boy can survive type stuff in the nineties. 0:11:19.796 --> 0:11:22.036 Yeah, that makes sense when you could see yourself in 0:11:22.076 --> 0:11:25.756 the music. Yeah, I heard you talking about like songwriting 0:11:25.836 --> 0:11:28.876 now in Nashville has gotten very industrialized. 0:11:29.716 --> 0:11:31.676 I guess what I meant by that more than anything 0:11:31.996 --> 0:11:35.276 is it's just you don't nobody sits around and withou 0:11:35.396 --> 0:11:38.236 lights candles and says kumbai and talks about what they 0:11:38.436 --> 0:11:40.796 what they've you know, what they've been through and what 0:11:40.836 --> 0:11:42.676 that I mean that that does happen, It's happened to 0:11:42.756 --> 0:11:44.676 me and it's I've written those kinds of songs and 0:11:44.676 --> 0:11:49.156 they've been recorded and everything, but but uh, you know, 0:11:49.316 --> 0:11:51.556 really it's just you you sit down that day and 0:11:51.596 --> 0:11:53.076 you try to write a hit or just the best 0:11:53.076 --> 0:11:54.916 song in the room, and it's just it's kind of 0:11:54.956 --> 0:11:56.516 the same thing over and over and over again. 0:11:56.556 --> 0:11:58.596 And that's and that's okay. It's just it's it's a job. 0:11:58.636 --> 0:12:01.116 It's literally like any other job where you know, you 0:12:01.236 --> 0:12:03.516 kind of just do somewhat of the same thing every day, 0:12:03.556 --> 0:12:06.276 and uh, that's all I mean. You know, there's there's 0:12:06.316 --> 0:12:09.156 all kinds of cool, little magic moments throughout town. And 0:12:08.956 --> 0:12:11.956 you know, like I wrote a song that Cody Johnson 0:12:11.956 --> 0:12:14.716 recorded called Jesus Loves You. It's not what you think 0:12:14.756 --> 0:12:16.836 if you go listen to it, but about a guy 0:12:16.916 --> 0:12:20.156 that is talking to a guy in jail because the 0:12:20.196 --> 0:12:24.036 guy in jail broke into this guy's house and stuff 0:12:24.076 --> 0:12:25.836 like that. Like a buddy of mine came in with 0:12:25.876 --> 0:12:28.116 that exact story the next day because somebody had broken 0:12:28.116 --> 0:12:31.316 into his house and anyway, so like you know, stuff 0:12:31.356 --> 0:12:33.316 like that, like it does happen, but it's it's just 0:12:33.396 --> 0:12:36.356 not as common as uh as just sitting sitting down 0:12:36.356 --> 0:12:37.756 and just trying to write a good song every day. 0:12:37.756 --> 0:12:40.636 And in that way, I think it's industrialized for sure. 0:12:41.396 --> 0:12:44.356 Got you. Yeah, So are you still enjoying it? Are 0:12:44.356 --> 0:12:45.796 you still enjoying writing songs? 0:12:45.876 --> 0:12:46.876 I love it so much. 0:12:46.916 --> 0:12:48.716 It's my I enjoy it more than any part of 0:12:48.716 --> 0:12:50.676 my career. I enjoy it all, but I enjoy it 0:12:50.836 --> 0:12:52.156 more than any part of my career. 0:12:52.516 --> 0:12:57.716 I mean, that feels like pretty amazing because you've obviously 0:12:57.756 --> 0:13:00.196 done it for so long. You're almost like a decade. 0:12:59.876 --> 0:13:02.556 In right, professionally twelve years in. 0:13:03.516 --> 0:13:06.756 Yeah. Yeah, the fact that you still love it is 0:13:06.756 --> 0:13:07.956 pretty amazing. 0:13:09.356 --> 0:13:09.516 That. 0:13:09.596 --> 0:13:12.916 I mean, I like to consider myself a decent singer 0:13:12.956 --> 0:13:15.836 and a pretty good performer, but I think that the 0:13:15.876 --> 0:13:17.476 reason that I was put on this earth was to 0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:19.956 write songs. There's just just something that happens to me 0:13:20.076 --> 0:13:24.236 in a songwriting room that, like, I can be having 0:13:24.276 --> 0:13:26.436 the worst day, I could be having like a mental 0:13:26.476 --> 0:13:28.956 breakdown or anxiety or whatever it is, and the second 0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:30.716 we get on a song and start digging into a 0:13:30.796 --> 0:13:31.516 lyric or whatever. 0:13:31.636 --> 0:13:34.676 I mean, everything in the world just goes away. 0:13:34.916 --> 0:13:38.796 And that's that is that it is my zen moment, 0:13:38.916 --> 0:13:41.396 especially professionally. It's like the one time that I just 0:13:41.436 --> 0:13:44.436 sort of feel like I'm just in a different place 0:13:44.476 --> 0:13:45.916 and it's just such a cool thing. 0:13:45.956 --> 0:13:46.876 I love it so much. 0:13:48.276 --> 0:13:50.356 Have you ever tried to analyze what it is about 0:13:50.356 --> 0:13:52.556 the process that you love so much? Like, is it 0:13:52.636 --> 0:13:54.916 like the puzzle part of it? Is it the like 0:13:55.036 --> 0:13:56.716 clever side of it? 0:13:57.396 --> 0:13:57.556 Uh? 0:13:57.956 --> 0:14:00.516 A lot? I think all of it, I think, or 0:14:00.556 --> 0:14:02.476 at least those two things. You kind of nailed it. 0:14:02.516 --> 0:14:05.916 I mean it is very much, especially with country, like 0:14:05.996 --> 0:14:08.356 every line has a place like you're not there's you know, 0:14:08.396 --> 0:14:10.836 somewhat of rule, like you don't really you're not supposed 0:14:10.836 --> 0:14:13.116 to contradict yourself, like don't say anything that you said 0:14:13.156 --> 0:14:15.676 before in the song within the song. You know, there's 0:14:15.676 --> 0:14:19.076 all these different kind of caveats or rules or whatever, and. 0:14:20.836 --> 0:14:22.556 I just love and so in that way, it's like 0:14:22.596 --> 0:14:23.036 a puzzle. 0:14:23.076 --> 0:14:24.716 It's like, well, what do we say in the second 0:14:24.796 --> 0:14:26.516 verse that we haven't said in the first verse, and 0:14:26.596 --> 0:14:28.756 like how does that course sort of change the course? 0:14:28.756 --> 0:14:30.836 But you get back to the chorus in the same 0:14:30.876 --> 0:14:33.676 way and all that. The puzzle is like really my 0:14:33.756 --> 0:14:38.396 favorite part. But lyric more than anything, like a lyric, 0:14:38.476 --> 0:14:40.676 the lyrics more than the melody and the music and 0:14:40.676 --> 0:14:41.356 all that. 0:14:41.076 --> 0:14:43.596 That's that's where I get off. I love that stuff. 0:14:44.596 --> 0:14:46.796 Is it okay in the room when you're in the 0:14:46.876 --> 0:14:49.236 room with people and you're writing, Is it okay to 0:14:49.316 --> 0:14:49.796 use AI? 0:14:49.996 --> 0:14:50.076 Like? 0:14:50.196 --> 0:14:52.516 Is it okay to like put something in chat gpt 0:14:52.676 --> 0:14:54.436 and be like can you like I do it. 0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:58.516 All the time with with with uh you get Look, 0:14:58.756 --> 0:15:02.476 here's the thing. Any Nashville songwriter would be lying if 0:15:02.516 --> 0:15:04.596 they didn't say that they didn't go to write either 0:15:04.636 --> 0:15:07.156 like rhyme zone dot com or like a rhyming. 0:15:07.556 --> 0:15:08.996 Dictionary website thing. 0:15:10.636 --> 0:15:12.956 And so if I'm stuck and I'm like, hey, can 0:15:12.956 --> 0:15:15.716 you give me a line for whatever that is in 0:15:15.756 --> 0:15:18.436 the vein of like you know, being outside in the woods, 0:15:18.436 --> 0:15:20.316 I'm just looking at my computer back screen, which is 0:15:20.356 --> 0:15:22.796 like you know the woods, and you know, half the time, 0:15:23.436 --> 0:15:26.956 like I would never chat chat GPT doesn't have a soul, 0:15:27.516 --> 0:15:30.836 so like it doesn't a I would never ask it. 0:15:30.876 --> 0:15:34.276 But it doesn't get like the inner soul that produces 0:15:34.316 --> 0:15:36.356 like the lyric that will make somebody cry, if that 0:15:36.396 --> 0:15:36.956 makes sense. 0:15:37.516 --> 0:15:39.116 Yeah, So that all just comes from being a. 0:15:39.156 --> 0:15:42.796 Human, but with like rhymes and just sort of stuff, 0:15:42.876 --> 0:15:44.836 really simple stuff I've used it before for sure. 0:15:46.036 --> 0:15:48.596 Yeah, I feel like it's, if anything, it's like a 0:15:48.636 --> 0:15:49.756 good jumping off point. 0:15:50.356 --> 0:15:52.156 Sure, I mean it's not going I love that. You 0:15:52.236 --> 0:15:53.236 might as well be a part of it. 0:15:53.236 --> 0:15:53.436 You know. 0:15:54.516 --> 0:15:56.316 So when you locked yourself in the room, what did 0:15:56.356 --> 0:15:58.556 you figure out about country? Like what was the formula? 0:15:58.676 --> 0:16:01.756 Did you crack the formula or did you were you 0:16:01.796 --> 0:16:04.596 like trying to figure out themes that like resonated with 0:16:04.636 --> 0:16:07.196 big audiences or were you trying to think more about 0:16:07.236 --> 0:16:09.916 like verse, chorus bridge, that kind of thing, like the 0:16:09.956 --> 0:16:10.956 mechanics of the song. 0:16:11.116 --> 0:16:12.876 Yeah, more more of the mechanics. You know. 0:16:12.916 --> 0:16:15.676 I didn't really get into I still, I swear to 0:16:15.756 --> 0:16:19.796 this day, not until like you're at you're deep in 0:16:19.836 --> 0:16:20.396 the middle of. 0:16:20.356 --> 0:16:22.196 A song, do you think, like, oh man, okay, this 0:16:22.276 --> 0:16:22.676 is a hit. 0:16:22.756 --> 0:16:24.436 Like what if we do a moment right here where 0:16:24.476 --> 0:16:27.156 it's like booom crowd moment, you know, like that's kind 0:16:27.196 --> 0:16:30.516 of that comes way later, I feel in the process, 0:16:30.676 --> 0:16:33.476 at least for me, it did. So for me, I 0:16:33.796 --> 0:16:37.276 was just figuring out the structure and it's just you know, 0:16:37.436 --> 0:16:41.236 it's like you either go verse chorus, verse chorus, bridge, chorus, 0:16:41.316 --> 0:16:44.676 or you go verse chorus, verse, chorus, solo, chorus, or 0:16:44.716 --> 0:16:46.236 you start with a chorus and then you do a 0:16:46.316 --> 0:16:48.116 verse and then a chorus and then a solo and 0:16:48.156 --> 0:16:49.916 then a bridge. You know, there's there's like four or 0:16:49.916 --> 0:16:53.036 five different formulas, and I don't know, I just kind 0:16:53.076 --> 0:16:56.196 of felt like I learned those types of things. 0:16:56.196 --> 0:16:59.356 And you know, a big one for me was paying attention. 0:16:59.396 --> 0:17:01.036 I was a big M and M fan, still am, 0:17:01.636 --> 0:17:06.516 but figuring out how to phrase lines putting emphasis on 0:17:06.556 --> 0:17:10.516 the right vowels so that there is a uh is 0:17:10.556 --> 0:17:13.396 it assonance? And I think it's assonance is the one 0:17:13.396 --> 0:17:16.876 that like puts the emphasis on the vowels And so 0:17:17.196 --> 0:17:19.756 if if if, like I studied that a lot, like, 0:17:20.156 --> 0:17:24.316 because there's certain ways you can phrase a line that said, 0:17:24.636 --> 0:17:27.516 and you can phrase a line two different ways and 0:17:27.596 --> 0:17:29.596 make them sound one sounds like a hit and one 0:17:29.636 --> 0:17:31.316 doesn't sound like a hit. And it's all about where 0:17:31.356 --> 0:17:34.196 you put the emphasis on certain like parts of the word. 0:17:34.276 --> 0:17:36.236 And I wish that I could just pull one out 0:17:36.236 --> 0:17:37.276 of my ass and do it right now. 0:17:37.356 --> 0:17:39.156 Dude, wait, can you think of one from your own 0:17:39.156 --> 0:17:42.236 catalog or maybe something from Eminem, like an Eminem song 0:17:42.236 --> 0:17:43.716 where he does Okay. 0:17:43.476 --> 0:17:44.476 Let me think really quick. 0:17:46.676 --> 0:17:49.716 Uh oh my god, that's this is gonna kill me now, 0:17:49.716 --> 0:17:51.836 because like you can't do it now. 0:17:52.076 --> 0:17:55.156 So if you put emphasis on a word in a sentence, 0:17:55.796 --> 0:17:57.956 it'll make it sound more like a hit. Is that 0:17:57.956 --> 0:17:58.476 what you're saying? 0:17:58.556 --> 0:18:01.036 Yeah, like if you if you were gonna say like like. 0:18:02.716 --> 0:18:05.356 Think of like a Morgan Wallin's or some like big like. 0:18:06.316 --> 0:18:11.876 Okay, all right, So the second verse of more than 0:18:11.876 --> 0:18:15.156 my Hometown, I ain't the runaway kind. 0:18:15.316 --> 0:18:17.036 I can't change that. 0:18:17.676 --> 0:18:21.236 My heart's stuck in these streets like the train tracks, 0:18:22.076 --> 0:18:23.956 city sky ain't the same black? 0:18:24.356 --> 0:18:26.236 Ain't that a map dot? Shame? 0:18:26.396 --> 0:18:29.236 And to think that chorus I Love you More, it's 0:18:29.276 --> 0:18:32.836 just like finding those vowels that sound the same and 0:18:32.876 --> 0:18:35.436 making sure that you sing them the exact same every 0:18:35.436 --> 0:18:37.916 single time, so that it just sounds like a bar. 0:18:38.036 --> 0:18:39.796 It sounds like an eminem song, you know. 0:18:39.996 --> 0:18:41.476 It sounds very hip hoppy. 0:18:41.556 --> 0:18:43.156 Yeah, that's so cool. I studied that. 0:18:43.196 --> 0:18:45.396 There's a guy he's still around and he's written so 0:18:45.436 --> 0:18:47.996 many hits. But Casey Bethard, I'm not gonna call him 0:18:47.996 --> 0:18:50.076 old man. I'm gonna run into him and be like, boy, 0:18:50.116 --> 0:18:53.356 you call me old man, but he it's like, man, 0:18:53.636 --> 0:18:55.276 I want to I'm always wanted to ask him, like, dude, 0:18:55.276 --> 0:18:58.116 who did you listen to to to develop your internal 0:18:58.156 --> 0:19:00.996 rhyme scheme? Because he if you go back, I mean, 0:19:01.036 --> 0:19:03.316 you look at all the songs he's written, but he's 0:19:03.356 --> 0:19:05.476 just got He had such a cool way of finding 0:19:05.476 --> 0:19:08.036 those internal rhymes because they're kind of sometimes they can 0:19:08.076 --> 0:19:10.516 be hidden in a line, you know, and the right 0:19:10.556 --> 0:19:12.116 person sings it the right way and you're like, oh, 0:19:12.116 --> 0:19:14.916 that sounds awesome. But he he, I really learned from him. 0:19:15.516 --> 0:19:19.076 And Rodney Clausen was another one. There's a second verse 0:19:19.156 --> 0:19:22.276 or first verse of that. Uh. Actually, I don't even 0:19:22.276 --> 0:19:24.436 know if Rodney wrote this song. But around here at 0:19:24.476 --> 0:19:26.636 g L, I'm gonna pick her up at six. 0:19:26.676 --> 0:19:28.756 I hope she's gonna wear the geens with the tear 0:19:28.836 --> 0:19:30.876 that her mama never fixed. I don't know. 0:19:31.596 --> 0:19:34.476 It's just finding all the little internal internal rhymes in 0:19:34.516 --> 0:19:35.916 there that makes a song better. 0:19:35.996 --> 0:19:37.356 It always makes a song better. 0:19:37.476 --> 0:19:37.676 Cool. 0:19:37.716 --> 0:19:41.476 I say all the time, if you if you when 0:19:41.516 --> 0:19:43.676 you're writing a song and it's like a tongue twister. 0:19:44.836 --> 0:19:46.836 Sometimes people are like, ah, that's kind of hard to sing, 0:19:46.876 --> 0:19:49.076 and I'm like no, because when you finally spit it out, 0:19:49.116 --> 0:19:51.756 it's gonna sound awesome, like it's you know when it's 0:19:51.756 --> 0:19:53.996 hard to say that means it's it's it's a good thing. 0:19:54.116 --> 0:19:55.236 You just have to learn it, you know. 0:19:56.116 --> 0:20:00.996 Yeah. I feel like with the song radio song, you're 0:20:01.036 --> 0:20:04.396 writing about the thing, like you're commenting on things and 0:20:04.436 --> 0:20:08.996 getting really clever with like the fourth wa yes, yeah, yes, 0:20:09.396 --> 0:20:11.556 did you start doing that like out of boredom? Like 0:20:11.556 --> 0:20:13.916 were you trying to make a statement like how like 0:20:14.036 --> 0:20:15.116 where did that come from? 0:20:15.396 --> 0:20:17.836 I just always liked songs about songs or like they 0:20:17.876 --> 0:20:21.716 call it meta to you know, like it's yes, like uh, 0:20:22.036 --> 0:20:25.076 and for radio songs specifically, I just I've there's a 0:20:25.156 --> 0:20:29.516 few songs that have done that in history that I 0:20:29.596 --> 0:20:31.236 loved and I wanted my own version of that. There 0:20:31.276 --> 0:20:32.956 was a song, you know a lot of people don't know, 0:20:32.956 --> 0:20:36.316 the Hey Ya buy outcast is about how people these 0:20:36.396 --> 0:20:39.116 days don't stay together anymore. They just get married and 0:20:39.156 --> 0:20:41.436 then they'll just get divorced. And that song is like 0:20:41.556 --> 0:20:43.636 my baby don't mess around because she loves me so 0:20:43.756 --> 0:20:45.556 and this I know for sure, Like thank God for 0:20:45.636 --> 0:20:47.876 mom and dad for sticking to together because we don't 0:20:47.876 --> 0:20:49.956 know how, and then and the bridge, he's like, y'all. 0:20:49.756 --> 0:20:52.156 Don't want to hear me, you just want to dance. Hey, y'all, 0:20:52.196 --> 0:20:52.476 Like this. 0:20:52.476 --> 0:20:55.276 Song is, yes, it's like really cool, but the chorus 0:20:55.356 --> 0:20:56.276 is just like you. 0:20:56.236 --> 0:20:59.356 Know, man, but whatever, y'all don't care. Here's a chorus. 0:20:59.356 --> 0:21:01.516 And that's kind of where I just I. 0:21:01.476 --> 0:21:04.356 Wanted to do something like that with with radio song. 0:21:04.436 --> 0:21:06.476 And by no means was I fed up. I mean 0:21:06.516 --> 0:21:09.596 I wrote that in the peak of my well, I 0:21:09.636 --> 0:21:11.636 like to say, my first peek in my songwriting career. 0:21:11.756 --> 0:21:13.956 So like my relationship with radio was great and I'm 0:21:13.996 --> 0:21:17.156 like praising God every day for the radio, so you know, 0:21:17.676 --> 0:21:20.076 and most of the radio people that I've come in 0:21:20.076 --> 0:21:22.516 contact with, they love it and they get the cheekiness 0:21:22.516 --> 0:21:22.676 of it. 0:21:22.716 --> 0:21:24.676 And when I play it live, yeah, I'll if the 0:21:24.836 --> 0:21:25.596 radio people. 0:21:25.356 --> 0:21:26.596 Are in the room, I'll give him a wink and 0:21:26.676 --> 0:21:28.596 kind of make a big smile like I'm never really 0:21:28.636 --> 0:21:30.756 angry about it. I just I just wanted to write 0:21:30.796 --> 0:21:32.236 a song about a song. And that's not the first 0:21:32.236 --> 0:21:34.236 time I've done it, but I enjoy doing it sometimes. 0:21:34.516 --> 0:21:36.716 Yeah, No, that's fun and it makes sense when like 0:21:37.636 --> 0:21:41.116 knowing that you admire people like Eminem. He commented a 0:21:41.156 --> 0:21:43.756 lot on the state of like the music business and 0:21:43.796 --> 0:21:45.036 just pop culture in general. 0:21:46.196 --> 0:21:48.076 Fleewood Matt kind of did it with rumors, but it 0:21:48.116 --> 0:21:50.836 was a little bit more cryptic. But like Eminem was 0:21:50.836 --> 0:21:53.316 the first person also to just completely open up his 0:21:53.436 --> 0:21:55.516 actual life to the world, and so it was like 0:21:55.596 --> 0:21:58.396 listening to reality music, you know what I mean. Yeah, 0:21:58.676 --> 0:22:01.316 And I think, you know, I don't ever, I don't 0:22:01.356 --> 0:22:02.636 have the balls to do that. I don't want to 0:22:02.636 --> 0:22:04.116 air out which I don't have a whole lot of laundry, 0:22:04.116 --> 0:22:05.876 but I don't want to air out my laundry to 0:22:05.956 --> 0:22:06.396 the world. 0:22:06.556 --> 0:22:09.036 But he you know, I've always admired him for that 0:22:09.156 --> 0:22:11.316 because that was really brave of him to do that, 0:22:11.396 --> 0:22:12.756 and it worked. 0:22:12.796 --> 0:22:15.316 People became invested in like his story, you know, and 0:22:15.476 --> 0:22:18.516 it just it totally worked, and I think that's so cool. 0:22:19.476 --> 0:22:19.876 Yeah. 0:22:19.916 --> 0:22:21.796 And then he had like eight Mile and then that's 0:22:21.836 --> 0:22:25.796 even like taking it further. Yeah. And then bro Country. 0:22:25.836 --> 0:22:27.556 I want to ask you about that song too, So 0:22:27.756 --> 0:22:29.716 is the bro Country era? Like that's over? 0:22:30.276 --> 0:22:32.476 Okay, So I you know, I'm glad you asked. 0:22:32.516 --> 0:22:35.596 I have not commented on this yet, Okay, me and 0:22:35.676 --> 0:22:37.876 Arn came up with that idea together at at Morgan 0:22:37.916 --> 0:22:40.316 wallin Show of All Things, we were opening for him like. 0:22:40.316 --> 0:22:41.836 Three and a half to four years ago. 0:22:42.156 --> 0:22:46.196 I feel like that concept completely, like I'm I'm like 0:22:46.356 --> 0:22:48.956 owning up to this, but I feel like the concept 0:22:48.956 --> 0:22:54.436 of bro country the song is kind of out the 0:22:54.476 --> 0:22:58.316 window because I now feel like in the next few 0:22:58.396 --> 0:23:00.956 years some of that is going to come back. And 0:23:01.756 --> 0:23:04.236 I'm just being completely honest. You know, when we wrote it, 0:23:04.236 --> 0:23:06.356 it was like, man, there's all these new people that 0:23:06.436 --> 0:23:08.716 are coming in and they're you know, it was very 0:23:08.756 --> 0:23:11.316 it was very fresh off of like a really potent 0:23:11.436 --> 0:23:14.276 bro country era. But even just four or five and 0:23:14.316 --> 0:23:18.116 now almost maybe six years later, you know, there there's 0:23:18.156 --> 0:23:20.356 a guy. There's a guy kid right now named Cody Loadin. 0:23:20.836 --> 0:23:23.156 He's doing this like broke. He's got a song called 0:23:23.156 --> 0:23:26.836 a Buckle Up and it's just it's just earwormy, like 0:23:27.676 --> 0:23:30.956 the debt the Muse. The lyrics aren't super super deep, 0:23:30.996 --> 0:23:34.196 but they're so well written, and it's just it's that thing. 0:23:34.236 --> 0:23:37.356 It's just like, don't know what we're gonna do tonight, 0:23:37.436 --> 0:23:39.876 but baby buckle Up. But it just it sounds good, 0:23:39.956 --> 0:23:40.116 you know. 0:23:40.356 --> 0:23:44.756 I saw a girl, Lauren Watkins make a video a 0:23:44.756 --> 0:23:47.156 while back and she was like, I'm just gonna say 0:23:47.436 --> 0:23:51.636 I miss bro Country. Uh, And she was like, I 0:23:51.396 --> 0:23:53.476 want She didn't use word objectified, but she was like, 0:23:53.556 --> 0:23:54.676 I want to be called hot. 0:23:54.996 --> 0:23:56.476 I want people to think I look hot with my 0:23:56.556 --> 0:23:59.276 legs swinging off tailgate. I miss it. Bring it back. 0:23:59.316 --> 0:24:00.876 And I was like, man, you know that's right. 0:24:00.916 --> 0:24:02.956 And I honestly believe that girls that grew up in 0:24:02.956 --> 0:24:05.396 that era listening to that kind of miss that a 0:24:05.396 --> 0:24:05.756 little bit. 0:24:05.796 --> 0:24:08.156 And Morgan Morgan will do it like Morgan. 0:24:07.876 --> 0:24:10.836 Does it, and but he's kind of the only guy 0:24:10.876 --> 0:24:13.516 that sort of can still get away with it. But 0:24:13.956 --> 0:24:15.756 all that to be said, I think it's going to 0:24:15.836 --> 0:24:17.596 come back in the next ten years. I think it's 0:24:17.636 --> 0:24:19.516 going to come back, and I just I'm here for it. 0:24:19.556 --> 0:24:22.876 So sorry, bro Country. Broke Country was was It wasn't 0:24:22.876 --> 0:24:24.836 a bad idea, but I think it was a short 0:24:24.836 --> 0:24:25.916 lived thought. 0:24:26.036 --> 0:24:30.196 Yep, we'll be back with more from Hardy after the break. 0:24:34.636 --> 0:24:36.476 I heard you say in a different interview that you 0:24:36.516 --> 0:24:39.676 were talking about how if you have a number one hit. 0:24:39.796 --> 0:24:41.676 I think it was if you have like a number 0:24:41.676 --> 0:24:44.116 one song on the radio, you get like as a songwriter, 0:24:44.236 --> 0:24:45.796 you get like two hundred thousand dollars. 0:24:46.436 --> 0:24:48.516 Yeah, I don't know, take yeah, give or take. 0:24:48.596 --> 0:24:50.876 And I was just curious, like as a range, like, 0:24:51.956 --> 0:24:55.756 how does being a songwriter compare to being an artist 0:24:56.196 --> 0:25:00.556 who's touring, who's like playing stadiums monitor earl. But yeah, 0:25:00.596 --> 0:25:02.356 just like range wise, like like. 0:25:02.636 --> 0:25:04.756 Touring makes way more money if you're killing it. 0:25:06.556 --> 0:25:10.716 But something that I learned recently, and I'll be somewhat 0:25:11.156 --> 0:25:13.436 cryptic here, but like if you do have a string 0:25:13.476 --> 0:25:18.956 of hits as a songwriter, you have the ability to 0:25:19.076 --> 0:25:22.956 sell your catalog and you don't get that back, you know, 0:25:22.996 --> 0:25:24.516 so you kind of want to make sure that most 0:25:24.556 --> 0:25:27.116 of the stream has run out, your revenue stream from 0:25:27.116 --> 0:25:30.596 the songs that you're selling has run out. But if 0:25:30.636 --> 0:25:33.116 you have enough hits and you sell a catalog as 0:25:33.156 --> 0:25:36.076 a songwriter, you can make a shit ton of money. 0:25:36.116 --> 0:25:38.756 And it kind of will put in perspective like touring 0:25:38.876 --> 0:25:44.716 versus writing, if that makes sense, right, because if you're 0:25:44.876 --> 0:25:47.036 like a well, if you're a stadium act, that's like 0:25:47.076 --> 0:25:49.996 a different level of money and that's not I'm I'm 0:25:50.036 --> 0:25:51.956 like an amphitheater act at best, but. 0:25:53.156 --> 0:25:54.516 It is really good. 0:25:54.596 --> 0:25:57.676 But you know, you would have to be really crushing 0:25:57.676 --> 0:25:59.716 it as a songwriter to kind of get close to 0:25:59.916 --> 0:26:02.716 like a somebody that's crushing it touring, to be honest. 0:26:02.756 --> 0:26:05.756 But again, yeah, the catalog sale kind of makes up 0:26:05.756 --> 0:26:07.476 for that on the back end a little bit because 0:26:07.516 --> 0:26:09.596 that's a really that's like you're super ball as a 0:26:09.596 --> 0:26:11.196 songwriter too, is you want to be able to do 0:26:11.276 --> 0:26:13.756 that one Day's that creates that's a different type of 0:26:13.796 --> 0:26:15.636 like send your grandkids to. 0:26:15.636 --> 0:26:22.036 College, totally generational wealth. Yeah, so how do you know 0:26:22.236 --> 0:26:25.116 when you said, like when it's run its course? Like, 0:26:25.196 --> 0:26:26.676 how do you know when that time is? 0:26:27.196 --> 0:26:28.876 I mean, if you have a business manager, they can 0:26:28.956 --> 0:26:31.156 kind of keep an eye on it, but you just 0:26:31.276 --> 0:26:34.436 like you get you get a statement from your pro quarterly, 0:26:34.876 --> 0:26:37.876 the people that pay you, and you could just see, 0:26:37.916 --> 0:26:40.996 you know, like I can go pull my last statement 0:26:41.076 --> 0:26:45.076 up and you know obviously like I wrote a Blake 0:26:45.116 --> 0:26:47.436 Shelton song called God's Country and like that's that was 0:26:47.476 --> 0:26:48.676 one of my biggest hits. 0:26:48.476 --> 0:26:50.356 And and like at its. 0:26:50.236 --> 0:26:52.156 Peak it was making this much and you know I 0:26:52.156 --> 0:26:53.956 can just see that, like you can just sort of 0:26:53.956 --> 0:26:56.116 tell when it sort of dwindles down to around this, 0:26:56.676 --> 0:27:01.156 maybe a very lower five five figure number for a 0:27:01.236 --> 0:27:03.236 year or so at a time, and then you know, 0:27:03.356 --> 0:27:06.396 basically a company is willing to buy that song for 0:27:06.516 --> 0:27:10.076 more than what that fight what fivegers quarterly would make 0:27:10.116 --> 0:27:10.836 in your lifetime. 0:27:10.916 --> 0:27:13.076 So you're kind of taking the money and run, but. 0:27:13.116 --> 0:27:16.356 Running, yeah, because like it's it's still an investment for 0:27:16.396 --> 0:27:19.156 other companies because over one hundred years it's gonna or 0:27:19.196 --> 0:27:21.756 seventy years, it's gonna make more than what they paid 0:27:21.756 --> 0:27:22.156 you for it. 0:27:22.196 --> 0:27:24.636 But you're like, you know, again, make the money and 0:27:24.676 --> 0:27:25.316 run kind of thing. 0:27:27.396 --> 0:27:30.476 But then something like a Stranger Things could license a song. 0:27:31.556 --> 0:27:34.636 Because because they could, you could get like an eight 0:27:34.676 --> 0:27:37.876 figure deal off of something crazy and then Sony or 0:27:38.196 --> 0:27:40.796 you know, somebody like that owns it now and that happens. 0:27:40.836 --> 0:27:44.076 You know, like you just never know, Like you never know. 0:27:44.516 --> 0:27:47.476 A song that I sold could could be sampled and 0:27:47.636 --> 0:27:52.036 be the biggest like Swedish dance song in the world 0:27:52.676 --> 0:27:55.436 and make a ton of money, and you know, but 0:27:55.476 --> 0:27:57.316 that's just that's kind of the risk that you take 0:27:57.356 --> 0:27:59.716 when you sell a catalog, So you just never know. 0:28:00.916 --> 0:28:03.916 I was curious about the way that you sequence an 0:28:03.916 --> 0:28:07.516 album with country country you like with the song bottom Land, 0:28:08.236 --> 0:28:09.876 Why did you put that all the way at the 0:28:09.916 --> 0:28:11.956 end of the album? Like, how do you think about 0:28:11.956 --> 0:28:12.716 the sequencing? 0:28:13.116 --> 0:28:13.516 I don't know. 0:28:13.556 --> 0:28:16.796 I don't remember that since that that record had like 0:28:16.836 --> 0:28:19.596 twenty songs on it, I fel that was harder for 0:28:19.676 --> 0:28:24.076 me to curate or or to to make the list 0:28:24.276 --> 0:28:24.756 for sure. 0:28:25.156 --> 0:28:26.676 So I can't really. 0:28:26.396 --> 0:28:29.236 Give an answer as to why more towards the end, 0:28:29.276 --> 0:28:32.236 to be honest with you, but I will say I do. 0:28:32.316 --> 0:28:36.756 I'm heavily involved, if not one responsible for every track 0:28:36.956 --> 0:28:38.556 order of every record that I've done. 0:28:39.156 --> 0:28:39.796 Oh, I'm sure. 0:28:39.876 --> 0:28:41.556 Yeah, It's just you know, I know that. 0:28:41.476 --> 0:28:43.756 People don't listen to albums front to back anymore, but 0:28:44.316 --> 0:28:46.156 I feel like in that way, I'm kind of an 0:28:46.156 --> 0:28:49.036 old soul, and it's like I've always loved albums and 0:28:49.116 --> 0:28:52.476 like a body of work, and I think that, you know, 0:28:52.876 --> 0:28:56.876 for people that create music to make a body of work, 0:28:56.916 --> 0:28:59.356 I guess want it to be listened to front to back. 0:28:59.956 --> 0:29:02.116 And so I definitely will look at the list of 0:29:02.156 --> 0:29:05.716 songs and try to like pull you emotionally all over 0:29:05.716 --> 0:29:07.876 the place by the end, so that there's nothing that 0:29:08.236 --> 0:29:12.076 seems too monoton or or too repetitive. 0:29:12.076 --> 0:29:14.516 On the record if that makes it Yes, Yeah. 0:29:14.156 --> 0:29:16.076 You mentioned that it had a really long track list, 0:29:16.116 --> 0:29:18.596 Like why not just put half of those out and 0:29:18.676 --> 0:29:21.596 save the other half for a future release. 0:29:22.236 --> 0:29:24.116 I just I don't. I don't operate like that. 0:29:24.276 --> 0:29:28.396 Like I this this record was very intentionally country and 0:29:28.396 --> 0:29:31.676 and yeah it was. It was kind of a retaliation 0:29:31.836 --> 0:29:34.556 to me leaving the country space for a year and 0:29:34.596 --> 0:29:36.756 going into the rock space because my last record was 0:29:36.756 --> 0:29:39.556 called Quit and we we marketed that as a rock record. 0:29:41.116 --> 0:29:43.916 So this was sort of almost I didn't treat the 0:29:43.996 --> 0:29:46.716 music sarcastically, but like it was like a here's your 0:29:46.796 --> 0:29:49.196 here's a big ass country record for everybody to enjoy. 0:29:49.796 --> 0:29:53.116 And uh, and that it's just it's where my head space. 0:29:53.316 --> 0:29:55.396 That's where I was, like, you know, in my headspace, 0:29:55.476 --> 0:29:58.556 and and uh, I like I said, I want to 0:29:58.556 --> 0:30:01.836 move on, and like I have a different project already 0:30:01.836 --> 0:30:03.116 in mind for like the next thing. 0:30:03.196 --> 0:30:05.196 And so no, I know you do. I want to 0:30:05.196 --> 0:30:05.676 hear about it. 0:30:05.716 --> 0:30:07.316 What is it? Is? 0:30:07.356 --> 0:30:08.156 It way different? 0:30:08.596 --> 0:30:13.036 It's yes, a little bit of the same, a little 0:30:13.076 --> 0:30:13.556 bit different. 0:30:13.716 --> 0:30:16.556 It's just it's a I'm getting back to like a 0:30:16.596 --> 0:30:18.356 concept kind of like the mocking bird and the Crow 0:30:18.516 --> 0:30:20.636 which was my second album, which I still think is 0:30:20.996 --> 0:30:22.996 kind of my flagship record. 0:30:22.756 --> 0:30:26.116 So far, right because it's got the country and the 0:30:26.156 --> 0:30:26.636 rock together. 0:30:26.876 --> 0:30:27.436 Yeah, it's like that. 0:30:27.636 --> 0:30:30.036 It's sick if somebody was like, who's hardy, you know, 0:30:30.076 --> 0:30:32.636 like what what should I listen to? Like, that's that's 0:30:32.716 --> 0:30:35.996 what the reference probably is. But no, I mean, I 0:30:36.036 --> 0:30:40.036 have I have a concept. I'll probably have my first 0:30:40.076 --> 0:30:42.156 I'm gonna have like an eight minute song on the record, 0:30:42.156 --> 0:30:45.476 which I'm stoked about that kind of talks about the concept. 0:30:45.516 --> 0:30:48.756 And it's just I'm just trying to continue to sort 0:30:48.836 --> 0:30:51.756 of push boundaries and just keep people on their. 0:30:51.596 --> 0:30:53.676 Toes and make people just be like what the fuck? 0:30:53.756 --> 0:30:56.996 And that's just is it like a different genre of music, 0:30:57.076 --> 0:30:59.076 like a totally different genre or is it like just 0:30:59.156 --> 0:31:00.556 new metal and country. 0:31:01.796 --> 0:31:02.916 A little bit of this little bit of that. 0:31:04.916 --> 0:31:06.396 Is it like trap or something? 0:31:06.476 --> 0:31:07.596 No, no, no, no, it's not like that. 0:31:07.636 --> 0:31:10.436 It's it's all Look, it's all under the umbrella of 0:31:10.516 --> 0:31:11.956 like me and my music. 0:31:13.036 --> 0:31:16.596 But it's just it's it's more it's less like a 0:31:16.756 --> 0:31:20.236 genre changing and more of like a theme. 0:31:20.396 --> 0:31:23.076 It's more of like, uh, a concept, yeah, like a 0:31:23.156 --> 0:31:25.596 concept or it's just it's got more of a theme, 0:31:26.116 --> 0:31:30.996 an intentional theme to the structure of the album. I'm 0:31:31.036 --> 0:31:34.796 still probably a year out from a record coming out, 0:31:34.836 --> 0:31:37.076 hopefully more because I need some time to really I 0:31:37.116 --> 0:31:41.556 want this one to really count, because I've always believed too, 0:31:41.596 --> 0:31:43.956 Like you know, my first record was a rock and 0:31:44.036 --> 0:31:45.436 it did well, but then the Mocky Bird and the 0:31:45.436 --> 0:31:48.356 Crow did really well, and then Quit didn't do quite 0:31:48.396 --> 0:31:50.676 as good as Marckybird and the Crow, and then Country 0:31:50.676 --> 0:31:52.116 Country did a little bit better than Quit, but. 0:31:52.116 --> 0:31:54.716 Not as good as Yeah, for sure. 0:31:54.716 --> 0:31:57.716 But I'm a firm believer that that just because you 0:31:57.836 --> 0:32:00.796 had records that followed a record that didn't do as 0:32:00.796 --> 0:32:03.076 good doesn't mean that you're done making your best record. 0:32:03.396 --> 0:32:06.396 Pretty Hate Machine was nine Inch Nails as first record, 0:32:06.396 --> 0:32:08.636 and I think that came out in like eighty nine 0:32:08.716 --> 0:32:12.196 or nine or something, and that was like their biggest 0:32:12.236 --> 0:32:14.636 record for a long time. And then With Teeth came 0:32:14.676 --> 0:32:17.476 out like seventeen years later, and that is like the 0:32:17.516 --> 0:32:20.116 record that everybody knows nine inch Nails by, and I'm like, man, 0:32:20.596 --> 0:32:22.156 if they can do that, I feel like I can 0:32:22.196 --> 0:32:24.116 do that. I just have to keep trusting myself and 0:32:24.596 --> 0:32:27.036 know that there's still something greater out there to explore. 0:32:27.996 --> 0:32:29.916 Do you feel like you make the music for you 0:32:30.036 --> 0:32:33.156 or do you make it for the audience. 0:32:33.716 --> 0:32:35.396 I think I make it for me. I've thought about 0:32:35.436 --> 0:32:35.916 this a lot. 0:32:36.036 --> 0:32:38.556 I just want to make stuff that's like I would 0:32:38.556 --> 0:32:42.876 think is cool, you know, like that I would listen to. 0:32:43.556 --> 0:32:46.556 I think I definitely think like when I get something 0:32:46.596 --> 0:32:48.916 really great, I'm like, my fans were gonna love this, 0:32:49.156 --> 0:32:52.796 but I don't. I'm not making anything for anyone outside 0:32:52.836 --> 0:32:55.036 of my fan base to be impressed with. Like, I 0:32:55.116 --> 0:32:59.196 just want, like I'm not like, man, I need more 0:32:59.196 --> 0:33:01.956 metal fans, or I need more traditional country fans, or 0:33:01.996 --> 0:33:04.356 I need to do like I just don't operate like that. 0:33:04.436 --> 0:33:06.876 So but mostly I just I want to make shit 0:33:06.916 --> 0:33:08.956 that I just think sounds cool, and like me and 0:33:09.276 --> 0:33:12.756 buddies all just think is cool, you know, And and yeah, 0:33:12.796 --> 0:33:15.116 that's just sort of the starting point, I guess. 0:33:15.676 --> 0:33:20.156 Yeah, Well, let's break and we'll be back with Hardy. 0:33:24.476 --> 0:33:26.276 Have you had to deal with any friends or any 0:33:26.276 --> 0:33:29.356 collaborators who want to kind of be like where you're at, 0:33:29.436 --> 0:33:32.516 Like any fellow songwriters people you work with that also 0:33:32.596 --> 0:33:35.476 want to be maybe artists themselves, but for whatever reason, 0:33:35.596 --> 0:33:41.116 can't make that transition or have tried and haven't found success. Yeah, 0:33:41.156 --> 0:33:43.476 have you had to deal with that? Like has that 0:33:43.596 --> 0:33:46.636 hard for you being someone who has crossed over and 0:33:46.676 --> 0:33:47.396 found success? 0:33:48.836 --> 0:33:53.876 You know, I'm not not necessarily everybody that. Like, Like, 0:33:53.956 --> 0:33:56.476 my best friend is his name is Hunter Phelps, and 0:33:56.556 --> 0:34:00.676 he he did the artist thing for a while and 0:34:01.636 --> 0:34:05.116 just never he he did really well, but he never 0:34:05.196 --> 0:34:07.196 like never signed a deal, never had a radio single 0:34:07.276 --> 0:34:10.116 or anything like that. And and he you know, so 0:34:10.196 --> 0:34:11.916 he kind of hung it up, or at least, you know, 0:34:12.716 --> 0:34:14.396 full time hung it up. And then he has like 0:34:14.756 --> 0:34:16.836 fifteen number ones under his belt as a writer now, 0:34:16.876 --> 0:34:20.396 so like most people have parlor or transitioned into something 0:34:20.436 --> 0:34:23.716 really great. Another friend of mine, Jordan Brooker. Jordan was 0:34:23.716 --> 0:34:25.516 a songwriter and he was one of the kind of 0:34:25.556 --> 0:34:27.716 guys that that and he would he would be fine 0:34:27.756 --> 0:34:30.196 with me saying this sort of got like he sort 0:34:30.196 --> 0:34:32.116 of went into a corner and was like, I don't know, 0:34:32.276 --> 0:34:32.956 I kind of want to. 0:34:32.876 --> 0:34:34.516 Go do like my own rock thing. 0:34:34.596 --> 0:34:36.716 And we were all like, bro, we're all writing country 0:34:36.756 --> 0:34:38.756 songs like come with Us, and so I feel like 0:34:38.796 --> 0:34:41.636 he kind of got left behind a little bit. And 0:34:41.676 --> 0:34:44.076 then like ten years later, I end up signing his 0:34:44.156 --> 0:34:46.036 rock band to a record label and he's killing it 0:34:46.036 --> 0:34:47.276 and he's making like awesome music. 0:34:47.356 --> 0:34:49.356 So every I feel like everybody that. 0:34:49.636 --> 0:34:54.276 That I felt like has not had success has turned 0:34:55.196 --> 0:34:57.356 whatever that into something else that's been really great. 0:34:57.436 --> 0:34:58.316 So that's really special. 0:34:58.876 --> 0:35:01.596 Yeah, that's awesome. Why do you think that it worked 0:35:01.596 --> 0:35:03.836 out so well for you when there's like, I don't 0:35:03.836 --> 0:35:05.996 know if there's so many people have you know, I'm 0:35:06.036 --> 0:35:07.956 sure a ton of people moved to Nashville to try 0:35:07.956 --> 0:35:10.756 and do the exact same thing, but you made it. Like, 0:35:10.796 --> 0:35:12.436 what do you think the difference is? Like do you 0:35:12.436 --> 0:35:14.996 think it's innate talent? Do you think you just are 0:35:15.476 --> 0:35:19.116 you work harder, you met the like the right people, Like, 0:35:19.156 --> 0:35:19.756 what is it? 0:35:19.916 --> 0:35:22.076 I think it's just all of it luck. I think 0:35:22.116 --> 0:35:23.276 it's all of it together. 0:35:23.396 --> 0:35:27.156 But I think the driving force for me is just 0:35:27.276 --> 0:35:28.956 being a decent person. 0:35:30.356 --> 0:35:33.836 And just treating people right and being polite. 0:35:33.996 --> 0:35:37.716 And everybody has their moments, like you know, and it 0:35:37.836 --> 0:35:40.436 sucks when you do have a bad moment with a 0:35:40.476 --> 0:35:42.436 fan or with somebody, or somebody sees you kind of 0:35:42.476 --> 0:35:44.436 being an ascid But you know what, man, we're all 0:35:44.476 --> 0:35:45.636 we all have those days. 0:35:45.636 --> 0:35:46.836 We all have those moments. 0:35:46.836 --> 0:35:49.036 It just sucks to be sort of in the spotlight 0:35:49.116 --> 0:35:50.796 or just being kind of caught at the wrong place 0:35:50.836 --> 0:35:52.156 at the right or wrong time. 0:35:53.076 --> 0:35:56.036 But you know, talent is. 0:35:57.436 --> 0:36:01.156 Fifty one percent of it, luck is ten percent, right 0:36:01.156 --> 0:36:03.516 place at the right time is ten percent, and then 0:36:03.876 --> 0:36:06.876 the other twenty nine percent or whatever is I really 0:36:06.916 --> 0:36:09.236 truly believe, and hard work is in there too. But 0:36:09.356 --> 0:36:12.396 it's just being somebody that people want to work with. 0:36:12.476 --> 0:36:14.956 Because I can tell you right now I have people 0:36:14.956 --> 0:36:17.396 that I write with that are not the best writers 0:36:17.396 --> 0:36:22.356 in town. There are people that are more talented than 0:36:22.356 --> 0:36:25.076 the people I love working with. That sucks as a 0:36:25.156 --> 0:36:27.036 human being, and I don't want to work with that 0:36:27.076 --> 0:36:31.556 person period. So, like Pete, just be somebody that people 0:36:31.596 --> 0:36:32.916 want to work with, that people. 0:36:32.636 --> 0:36:36.156 Want to root for, and and and just a good 0:36:36.196 --> 0:36:37.476 hanging pet that people like being. 0:36:37.556 --> 0:36:40.076 You know that you make people feel comfortable being being 0:36:40.116 --> 0:36:43.476 around you. I think it. There's so much of that. 0:36:43.556 --> 0:36:45.876 I mean, all of the all of the biggest people 0:36:45.916 --> 0:36:48.156 in Nashville, the people that I looked up to, like 0:36:48.276 --> 0:36:52.556 Blake Shelton, the Luke Bryan, Miranda Lambert, Derk's Bentley have 0:36:52.756 --> 0:36:57.396 all been the most kind, easy to be around people, 0:36:57.556 --> 0:37:00.516 personable and just normal at their core people. 0:37:00.876 --> 0:37:02.476 And I just I truly believe that's why. 0:37:02.556 --> 0:37:05.796 That's what turns people into like a superstar, is that 0:37:06.076 --> 0:37:07.196 so many people just love. 0:37:07.036 --> 0:37:07.596 Who you are. 0:37:08.316 --> 0:37:10.596 I feel like Lady like that too. She seems so. 0:37:10.556 --> 0:37:14.196 Cool, unbelievably normal, Like unbelievably normal. 0:37:14.276 --> 0:37:16.796 She would she hits me up all the time and 0:37:16.836 --> 0:37:19.796 she's we our schedules are also crazy, so we haven't 0:37:19.796 --> 0:37:20.076 done it. 0:37:20.076 --> 0:37:21.076 But she's like, you want to go get some. 0:37:21.036 --> 0:37:22.836 Mexican food, you know, And I'm just like, man, it 0:37:22.956 --> 0:37:25.716 just sounds like something. You know, she is my buddy, 0:37:25.716 --> 0:37:27.636 but just sounds like something one of my guys buddies 0:37:27.676 --> 0:37:29.876 would just be like, hey, dude, you know. I mean, 0:37:29.916 --> 0:37:32.996 she's so that girl for the amount of success and 0:37:33.196 --> 0:37:37.596 stardom that she's experienced, has not changed a single bit. 0:37:37.676 --> 0:37:39.316 And I love that so much about her. 0:37:39.996 --> 0:37:41.596 Is there anybody that you want to work with on 0:37:41.636 --> 0:37:43.396 the new album that you can tell us about, like 0:37:43.476 --> 0:37:51.076 any collaborations or any like new metal people, you know. 0:37:51.076 --> 0:37:54.876 I'm not really sure. I mean, I love Mike. Mike 0:37:54.956 --> 0:37:56.116 Shinoda would be really cool. 0:37:56.276 --> 0:37:58.836 Yeah, but he's so cool have you met him? 0:37:59.036 --> 0:38:00.196 No, No, I never met him. 0:38:01.356 --> 0:38:04.996 That would be very cool, even I mean I would 0:38:05.036 --> 0:38:07.116 do another song with Fred Durst, or even like if 0:38:07.196 --> 0:38:09.876 I had, like Wes Borland play like a a part 0:38:09.996 --> 0:38:14.876 on something I don't know's there's a million a million people, 0:38:14.916 --> 0:38:15.996 I'm sure that would come to mind. 0:38:16.036 --> 0:38:18.196 But I haven't really given it a lot of thought yet. 0:38:18.236 --> 0:38:20.956 I've only written I think five or six songs for 0:38:21.036 --> 0:38:23.116 this next project, and I've got a long way to go. 0:38:23.396 --> 0:38:30.516 So okay, you have twenty more So with like the 0:38:30.556 --> 0:38:32.716 Fred the Fred Dirt back to the Fred Durst song, 0:38:32.836 --> 0:38:35.516 like when he did he send you that verse and 0:38:35.556 --> 0:38:38.716 then you listen to it and then like did you 0:38:38.796 --> 0:38:41.036 work remotely or cause you guys weren't in the same 0:38:41.396 --> 0:38:41.796 we weren't. 0:38:41.876 --> 0:38:44.716 Yeah, I had that hook, I had that chorus. When 0:38:44.716 --> 0:38:46.556 we cut it in the studio, we just cut like, 0:38:46.876 --> 0:38:50.036 you know whatever. It was sixteen bar verse and I 0:38:50.156 --> 0:38:51.756 just sent it to him and he was like, what's 0:38:51.836 --> 0:38:53.756 what kind of vibe are you feeling? And I sort 0:38:53.796 --> 0:38:55.236 of would send it back and then he was like 0:38:55.316 --> 0:38:58.036 what about this? And I'm pretty sure the first thing 0:38:58.076 --> 0:39:01.196 he sent back, I was like, that sounds like Fred Durst. Like, 0:39:01.236 --> 0:39:03.956 that's that's cool to me, and that's what we went with. 0:39:04.036 --> 0:39:06.356 But yeah, unfortunately we didn't get to sit in the 0:39:06.356 --> 0:39:11.276 same room together, but it was it was again, like 0:39:11.476 --> 0:39:14.396 extremely cool, and you know, he didn't he didn't go silent, 0:39:14.436 --> 0:39:17.196 but like he had just had a kid or something. 0:39:18.636 --> 0:39:19.636 Kind of right in the middle of it. 0:39:19.676 --> 0:39:21.476 So I didn't hear from him for like a few weeks, 0:39:21.956 --> 0:39:24.636 and then I was writing a song with some friends, uh, 0:39:24.676 --> 0:39:27.996 and I was wearing a hat to say live laugh 0:39:28.156 --> 0:39:30.076 lit biscuit kind. 0:39:29.916 --> 0:39:34.116 Of cheesy, and that day he texted out of the blue. 0:39:34.156 --> 0:39:35.956 After like three weeks I'm not hearing from him, he 0:39:35.956 --> 0:39:38.116 texted me all like his verses and stuff, and I 0:39:38.156 --> 0:39:39.636 was like, oh, that's cool, and I sent him a 0:39:39.676 --> 0:39:42.596 selfie wearing the hat and then he was like yo, 0:39:42.756 --> 0:39:43.756 he was like who made that hat? 0:39:43.756 --> 0:39:45.836 I'm about to go sue him and put that on 0:39:45.876 --> 0:39:46.876 our own merch line. 0:39:47.676 --> 0:39:51.956 Totally, that's crazy. So do you feel comfortable at that 0:39:52.036 --> 0:39:53.756 point since you look up to him so much and 0:39:53.796 --> 0:39:56.476 you love him, Like, do you feel comfortable being like, oh, hey, 0:39:56.596 --> 0:39:59.116 can you change like the third line or. 0:39:59.676 --> 0:40:02.716 Yeah it doesn't definitely, yeah, yeah, I mean in a 0:40:02.756 --> 0:40:05.116 creative space, you know, and he's an artist and he 0:40:05.476 --> 0:40:07.636 gets that. So I, you know, I don't really remember 0:40:08.196 --> 0:40:11.156 the details of that conversation, but one percent if there 0:40:11.196 --> 0:40:15.236 was one thing that bothered me. Again, he's a creative, 0:40:15.276 --> 0:40:17.396 so he totally gets it. I I feel like he 0:40:17.396 --> 0:40:18.836 would totally respect. 0:40:18.396 --> 0:40:20.316 That and and and and come back with. 0:40:20.476 --> 0:40:23.436 Whatever was best for the song for sure, which is 0:40:23.436 --> 0:40:24.596 so crazy to think about. 0:40:24.676 --> 0:40:27.196 You know, Hey, Fred Durst, I didn't like that on 0:40:27.316 --> 0:40:28.116 a lie or whatever. 0:40:28.196 --> 0:40:30.196 But you know, that's the great thing about working with 0:40:30.236 --> 0:40:33.356 great artists is, you know, people we're all just on 0:40:33.396 --> 0:40:35.956 the same page. Like, yeah, I haven't gotten in an 0:40:36.036 --> 0:40:38.876 argument with an artist or like a songwriter. 0:40:40.436 --> 0:40:42.276 Maybe ever, but in a very long. 0:40:42.156 --> 0:40:44.836 Time, because it just everybody is in it for the 0:40:44.876 --> 0:40:48.276 greater good of writing a great song. And that's what 0:40:48.716 --> 0:40:53.196 I think a true creative is is that's just that's 0:40:53.196 --> 0:40:55.516 what they do. And and yeah, it's been it's been 0:40:55.556 --> 0:40:57.156 really cool to work with all different kind of artists. 0:40:57.156 --> 0:40:59.796 And it's like, you know, I've done stuff like Bear Teeth. 0:40:59.516 --> 0:41:04.996 And and everything from I mean post Alone and uh 0:41:05.236 --> 0:41:05.476 It to. 0:41:05.556 --> 0:41:07.836 Like Landy Wilson and there's they you're all they're all 0:41:07.836 --> 0:41:09.716 on the same page. It's all. It's all doing the 0:41:09.716 --> 0:41:11.356 same kind of work, just with different people. 0:41:12.156 --> 0:41:16.356 Yeah. I just want to ask you about Joey moy Yeah, 0:41:16.436 --> 0:41:18.516 so he used to be you mentioned Nickelback, So he 0:41:18.676 --> 0:41:22.396 was a producer with Nickelback, right, and then now he's 0:41:22.476 --> 0:41:25.916 kind of like transitioned into this to like a whole 0:41:25.956 --> 0:41:30.036 like country Nashville kind of career. Is he sort of 0:41:30.116 --> 0:41:34.836 like the mastermind behind a movement in Nashville? Like, how 0:41:34.836 --> 0:41:37.516 do you describe his position right now? Like what he's built. 0:41:37.836 --> 0:41:39.356 Yeah, I mean he's done it twice in that and 0:41:39.396 --> 0:41:40.716 he's done it three times in music. 0:41:40.756 --> 0:41:45.076 I mean he so he he did. He started I. 0:41:44.996 --> 0:41:48.276 Believe as an engineer and that in Vancouver working on 0:41:49.316 --> 0:41:52.356 Nickelback records, and then he got the producer gig for 0:41:53.396 --> 0:41:54.916 I want to say dark Horse, but I want to 0:41:54.956 --> 0:41:58.076 say it was like, uh, it was after Silver Side Up, 0:41:58.076 --> 0:42:01.436 so it was maybe like all the right reasons the 0:42:01.516 --> 0:42:04.236 Long Road and dark Horse. But anyway, he was a 0:42:04.276 --> 0:42:07.316 part of the Nickelback's like a really big wave. And 0:42:07.356 --> 0:42:10.836 then he was involved with a guy named a manager 0:42:10.876 --> 0:42:12.796 in town that just goes by. 0:42:12.756 --> 0:42:17.076 Chief, I believe, and Chief had moved to Nashville. 0:42:17.556 --> 0:42:20.076 I also believe and talked to Joey into coming and 0:42:20.116 --> 0:42:25.236 producing some songs. That's that's Rodney Clausen was involved. Long 0:42:25.276 --> 0:42:28.636 story short, Joey came and produced a jac Ohen record 0:42:28.996 --> 0:42:31.036 and kind of put this stadium rock thing on it, 0:42:31.756 --> 0:42:33.516 and Jake had a song called Barefoot the Blue g 0:42:33.676 --> 0:42:36.436 Knight that was like massive, and then from there he 0:42:36.556 --> 0:42:39.396 started producing Florida Georgia Line and then like that just 0:42:39.476 --> 0:42:42.396 sort of that changed everything for a very long time 0:42:42.476 --> 0:42:46.036 in Nashville. I think still to this day, is that 0:42:46.276 --> 0:42:48.556 one stuck like there will be people that sound like FGL, 0:42:48.596 --> 0:42:51.876 I think for a long time. Yeah, and then uh, 0:42:52.596 --> 0:42:55.476 around the time actually yeah, around the time FGL broke 0:42:55.556 --> 0:42:59.596 up Morgan walland took off and Joey produced all of 0:42:59.636 --> 0:43:03.876 Morgan stuff, And so yeah, I mean he's he's he's 0:43:03.876 --> 0:43:06.036 got a thing figured out. I've sat in every single 0:43:06.036 --> 0:43:08.596 and he's my producer as well. I sat in every 0:43:08.596 --> 0:43:12.436 single set, every song we've ever recorded. He's extremely meticulous. 0:43:12.636 --> 0:43:16.116 His biggest thing is like there never being any blank 0:43:16.156 --> 0:43:18.036 space in a song. When there can be a catchy 0:43:18.076 --> 0:43:20.436 part that's written, it's usually a guitar part, but like 0:43:20.916 --> 0:43:23.916 feeling the space feeling the space, making sure it's palatable 0:43:23.956 --> 0:43:26.636 and you can sing along to it, and that whole thing. 0:43:26.676 --> 0:43:29.996 I think that's a big part of how he produces, 0:43:30.116 --> 0:43:32.716 is just making sure that there's no dead space for 0:43:32.796 --> 0:43:36.476 anybody to become or to get bored. You know, he's 0:43:36.476 --> 0:43:38.996 out in LA now kind of running the rock label, 0:43:38.996 --> 0:43:42.516 and I feel like, I kind of joke. I haven't 0:43:42.556 --> 0:43:43.836 said this to him, but I think he's just like 0:43:44.156 --> 0:43:46.076 he's not at the end of his career, but he's 0:43:46.116 --> 0:43:48.156 done so much shit and I think he's made so 0:43:48.276 --> 0:43:50.436 much money that he's like, I just want to run 0:43:50.436 --> 0:43:53.036 a rock label and sign rock bands and like do 0:43:53.116 --> 0:43:53.596 that whole thing. 0:43:53.636 --> 0:43:54.916 So he's spending a lot of time. 0:43:54.716 --> 0:43:57.836 In LA right now doing that and just just living 0:43:57.876 --> 0:43:58.716 his best life. 0:43:59.116 --> 0:44:00.996 I feel like with it's like the pressure is off, 0:44:01.036 --> 0:44:03.036 He's probably gonna have a whole new era, like a 0:44:03.036 --> 0:44:05.436 whole new success, like find a whole new group of 0:44:05.476 --> 0:44:07.396 people that are good to kill it. 0:44:07.476 --> 0:44:09.476 I mean, look, he's one of the smartest people, if 0:44:09.516 --> 0:44:11.996 not the smartest human that I know, so like he 0:44:12.516 --> 0:44:17.356 completely understands this new era with social media, Like I like, 0:44:17.596 --> 0:44:19.396 shit that goes over my head and I'm just like 0:44:20.036 --> 0:44:22.116 how Michael Scott says, explain this to me like I'm 0:44:22.156 --> 0:44:22.756 a ten year old. 0:44:22.916 --> 0:44:24.796 That's how I feel like talking to him a lot. 0:44:24.836 --> 0:44:26.436 But yeah, but he just gets it. 0:44:26.436 --> 0:44:28.836 He's one of those people that like he'll be around 0:44:28.876 --> 0:44:31.796 forever because he just understands music on a different level 0:44:31.836 --> 0:44:32.596 than a lot of people. 0:44:33.196 --> 0:44:36.276 Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Hardy. I'll let you go, 0:44:36.356 --> 0:44:37.956 But thank you so much. It's been cool to talk 0:44:38.036 --> 0:44:38.236 to you. 0:44:38.396 --> 0:44:39.396 Yeah, I really enjoyed it. 0:44:39.436 --> 0:44:42.236 I feel like when we get into songwriting, I'm like, 0:44:42.276 --> 0:44:44.476 I could talk hours about songwriting. 0:44:44.476 --> 0:44:46.396 I love it so much. So thanks for letting me 0:44:46.436 --> 0:44:47.156 open up about that. 0:44:50.516 --> 0:44:52.356 In the episode description, you'll find a link to a 0:44:52.356 --> 0:44:54.836 playlist of our favorite Hardy songs. Be sure to check 0:44:54.836 --> 0:44:57.716 out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see 0:44:57.756 --> 0:45:01.316 all our video interviews. Broken Record is produced and edited 0:45:01.356 --> 0:45:03.756 by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler and 0:45:03.836 --> 0:45:08.556 Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production. 0:45:08.316 --> 0:45:09.036 Of Pushkin indis. 0:45:09.636 --> 0:45:12.076 If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 0:45:12.076 --> 0:45:15.636 subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 0:45:15.716 --> 0:45:18.476 that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four 0:45:18.596 --> 0:45:20.916 ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple 0:45:20.916 --> 0:45:24.436 podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember 0:45:24.436 --> 0:45:26.516 to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app 0:45:26.836 --> 0:45:29.356 Our theme music expect Henny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.