Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: Before Hardy was known as the breakout artist who pushed
Speaker 2: country music into hard rock territory, he was a self
Speaker 2: proclaimed redneck from Philadelphia, Mississippi, who studied songwriting at Middle
Speaker 2: Tennessee State University. Since moving to Nashville in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: he's written sixteen number ones for artists like Morgan Wallend,
Speaker 2: Blake Shelton, and Dirk Spentley. In twenty eighteen, with the
Speaker 2: encouragement of producer Joey Moy and his label Big Loud,
Speaker 2: Hardy started writing songs for himself and it paid off.
Speaker 2: He's now a five time ACM Award winner and a
Speaker 2: two time CMA Award winner, joining the upper echelon of
Speaker 2: Big Loud artists that Moy has helped build, alongside Morgan
Speaker 2: Wallan and Florida Georgia Line. Today's episode, Leo Rose talks
Speaker 2: to Hardy about the craft of writing a song that sticks,
Speaker 2: including what he's learned from studying artists like Eminem. They
Speaker 2: also get into how AI is showing up in Nashville
Speaker 2: rooms and why Hardy thinks bro country isn't going anywhere
Speaker 2: anytime soon. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
Speaker 2: Here's Leo Rhodes with Hardy. Head over to YouTube dot
Speaker 2: com slash Broken Record Podcast if you want to see
Speaker 2: the video.
Speaker 3: Brad Paisley has the uh well I'm gonna miss her,
Speaker 3: you know the song about uh. She says if you know,
Speaker 3: it's like if if you if you go fishing today,
Speaker 3: we're over, and then he just says I'm gonna miss her.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's that's like some shit I would do,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Especially as and so I started that's when I started
Speaker 3: getting into country. It was just when it kind of started,
Speaker 3: just the lyrics got a little more clever and it
Speaker 3: just appealed to like people that grew up country.
Speaker 4: So is the bro country era? Like that's over?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: So I I you know, I'm glad you asked. I
Speaker 3: have not commented on this yet.
Speaker 4: I know you studied songwriting at school for a period
Speaker 4: of time. But how did you how do you go
Speaker 4: from just being like a regular like high school kid
Speaker 4: to like making the move to Nashville, Like, how do
Speaker 4: you even know that any of this existed?
Speaker 3: Well, so, my sister moved to Nashville before I did.
Speaker 3: She's a year and a half older than me. She
Speaker 3: was two grades above me. She was a singer. She
Speaker 3: was really talented, still is a really talented singer, and
Speaker 3: you know, she she moved to town and I was
Speaker 3: in like junior college and just didn't know what I
Speaker 3: wanted to do. And at the same time, I had
Speaker 3: kind of gotten you know, decent at guitar and had
Speaker 3: written a couple songs I mean that literally is it,
Speaker 3: and was sending them to her. You know, I was
Speaker 3: recording them on back then. I don't even know what
Speaker 3: I recorded it on. It was before iPhones, and.
Speaker 1: But I sent them to her and she basically hit
Speaker 1: me up. One day.
Speaker 3: I was just like, hey, you know, there's a whole
Speaker 3: industry here, like the songwriting, the publishing industry, where you
Speaker 3: get people get paid to write songs, and most of
Speaker 3: the songs you hear on the radio aren't written by
Speaker 3: that artist, or at least it was written by like
Speaker 3: some normal guys and girls that just go to the
Speaker 3: grocery store every day.
Speaker 1: And you know, I didn't listen to country music growing up.
Speaker 3: I grew up in a small town, and I grew
Speaker 3: up hunting and fishing and doing all the stuff. But
Speaker 3: I didn't listen to country music because it didn't appeal
Speaker 3: to me at all. There was nothing I got out
Speaker 3: of it until like Eric Church and some of these
Speaker 3: guys that started kind of singing about being a good
Speaker 3: old boy came along, and then I was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I do this stuff, so I resonate with it. But
Speaker 3: I learned more about songwriting by locking myself in a
Speaker 3: room for four years and just listening to country music
Speaker 3: and trying to more or less replicate that in.
Speaker 1: My own way than I did in school.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I feel like I got very lucky
Speaker 3: and I just made a snap decision and I just
Speaker 3: sort of wound up here.
Speaker 1: I mean I worked really hard.
Speaker 3: You know, with once I signed a publishing deal and
Speaker 3: all that, and really never gave up and never thought
Speaker 3: about giving up and all that good stuff. But I
Speaker 3: just I made such a snap decision and it just which,
Speaker 3: you know, that's I just felt like it was just
Speaker 3: meant to be.
Speaker 4: I also saw you that used to be really into
Speaker 4: like new metal, like you went through a phase I
Speaker 4: guess when you were a teenager.
Speaker 1: Still in it. You're still in it of course, all
Speaker 1: this stuff.
Speaker 4: I was so happy for you that you did a
Speaker 4: song with fred Durst. I was like, that must have
Speaker 4: been so cool.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: It was a moment where they're like, you know, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of highs and there's a lot of wow.
Speaker 3: I can't believe I met this person or I wrote
Speaker 3: a song for this person, or what I'm doing a
Speaker 3: song with this person.
Speaker 1: But man, the Fred one was different.
Speaker 3: And I was like in Italy at the time, and
Speaker 3: my at the time, a guy that was working at
Speaker 3: my label. We had reached out to him, but I
Speaker 3: had no connection to him other than the guy that
Speaker 3: was working in my label.
Speaker 1: He texted me just said, hey, if you get a.
Speaker 3: Phone call today from like whatever number, like answer it,
Speaker 3: It's gonna be Fred Durst. And I was like what
Speaker 3: and so I it was like one of the coolest
Speaker 3: things ever.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was such a huge Lambiscuit fan. I
Speaker 1: still am. I love the stuff they's put out to
Speaker 1: this day. But yeah, all that stuff, I mean that
Speaker 1: really that was.
Speaker 3: I was new metal was when I was like age
Speaker 3: nine to like, you know, fourteen, So those are very
Speaker 3: very absorbing music years.
Speaker 1: For me, and so I took in a lot of that.
Speaker 3: It just it was, man, something about like all that
Speaker 3: stuff Lincoln Park. I mean I had I begged my
Speaker 3: parents for the Hybrid Theory record when I was like
Speaker 3: ten years old, and the guy gave it to me,
Speaker 3: and and uh, it just it changed my life.
Speaker 1: I mean I was obsessed with that stuff. I still am.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love new metal so much.
Speaker 4: That's so cool. I hear very few people like people
Speaker 4: like to shit on new metal, but I love that
Speaker 4: you're into it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can shit on it all you want.
Speaker 3: But like, I know for a fact that both Lincoln
Speaker 3: Park and lit Biscuit at separate times were the biggest
Speaker 3: bands in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, System of a Down, same thing.
Speaker 3: They're kind, they're I guess they're new metal ish, they're
Speaker 3: they're just their own thing. They're huge, But yeah, they're
Speaker 3: that that era of rock and roll, aside from like
Speaker 3: a little bit after that with like Nickelback and Three
Speaker 3: Doors Down, that was like the last era of bands
Speaker 3: that were just absolutely worldwide, gigantic, so you can shop
Speaker 3: on it all your own, but that shit was worldwide
Speaker 3: and they crushed it. So you know, a lot more
Speaker 3: people liked it than didn't.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that.
Speaker 4: What about metal, Like, were you into like Slipknot. Were
Speaker 4: you into like more like harder metal stuff.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love my Suga a lot.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I didn't get into Slipknot as much until
Speaker 3: I was older. I know that was kind of happening
Speaker 3: at the same time, but I just I wasn't into
Speaker 3: slip Knot quite as much. But let's see, high school
Speaker 3: like a kid made me a burnt set. I was
Speaker 3: more like in the post hardcore era or like you know,
Speaker 3: like people call it death core early like a day
Speaker 3: to remember, like like August Burns.
Speaker 1: Red and I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's so many and I rode that way for for
Speaker 3: quite some time, and I still listen to a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff now.
Speaker 1: I love Spirit Box.
Speaker 3: I think it's dope. I like Falling in Reverse. I
Speaker 3: if another one that people like to shit on, but
Speaker 3: I think it's like the fresh freshest ship that's been
Speaker 3: come out in a long time.
Speaker 1: To Sleep Token, oh, I don't know, Sleep Token, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, you have to listen to Sleep Talking so sick.
Speaker 1: They are so sick, the huge.
Speaker 3: Like genre blenders, but they're really cool. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: love all that stuff. If it grooves like I can't
Speaker 3: listen to I'm not a big like black metal or
Speaker 3: just nothing that really ever grooves.
Speaker 1: That's why I love Michelle so much is their rifts.
Speaker 3: Were so like clean and and just groovy, and I
Speaker 3: just I love that kind.
Speaker 4: Of Yeah, were you kind of like an outcast in
Speaker 4: high school? Like what was your what were and what
Speaker 4: were you dressing? Like, like did you have like the
Speaker 4: spikey Lincoln Park hair?
Speaker 1: No, I was. I was kind of a regular Southern boy.
Speaker 3: People in high school like to tell me that, uh
Speaker 3: that I was a little bit differ friend and I
Speaker 3: was kind of a rocker kid, and I guess maybe
Speaker 3: I was, But no, I just music was ironically kind
Speaker 3: of a big Like it was big in my hometown,
Speaker 3: and like people loved music and all different kinds and
Speaker 3: there was a little bit of a scene. You know.
Speaker 1: There was a couple of seen kids and metal kids
Speaker 1: that that I went to high school with.
Speaker 3: But they were also like they were cool, you know,
Speaker 3: and and uh are just you know, they were popular,
Speaker 3: they had friends.
Speaker 1: It was just it was sort of different. But no,
Speaker 1: I was. I felt like I belonged just right where
Speaker 1: I was and had a good I.
Speaker 3: Mean, I was in I was in like FFA and shit,
Speaker 3: I was I was a country kid.
Speaker 1: I just, uh wait, that's Farmers future Farmers of America.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite class school.
Speaker 4: Oh nice.
Speaker 3: Most of my close buddies though, were like, bro, turn
Speaker 3: the ship off when I would play stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But I just you know, I loved it, and I
Speaker 3: have I had my metal buddies, and I had my
Speaker 3: my hunting buddies and you know all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: How old are you when you're allowed to start hunting?
Speaker 1: Seven?
Speaker 4: Maybe I have an eight year old right now.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh no, I think I said my first
Speaker 3: deer when I was seven hunting by myself.
Speaker 1: I think I was like twelve. Wow. Obviously like my you.
Speaker 3: Know, I would go with my dad and we would
Speaker 3: go separate ways or whatever.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, a really really young age. It's it's
Speaker 1: a big part of my family.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: The men in my specifically, we all were in still
Speaker 1: are big deer hunters.
Speaker 4: Yep. So you talked a little bit about the country
Speaker 4: that was popular when you were growing up and how
Speaker 4: you didn't identify with it. I guess was that like
Speaker 4: what was that era? Like how would you classify the
Speaker 4: music like it was nineties?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, late nineties, early two thousands. It was a lot
Speaker 3: of like honky tongue music. I mean, I grew up
Speaker 3: in a dry county. I didn't drink. I wasn't I
Speaker 3: didn't start drinking early, you know what I mean. I'd
Speaker 3: start drinking like or having had my first few beers.
Speaker 3: I guess you would say, like eighteen nineteen years old,
Speaker 3: like most most kids, you know, maybe twenty, but.
Speaker 4: You're hunting at seven.
Speaker 1: Yeah, seven. But I didn't start drinking until I was
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah. It just didn't appeal to me there.
Speaker 3: I'd never been in a bar, you know, And and
Speaker 3: it was either that or it was very It was
Speaker 3: like a lot of adult It appealed more to adults
Speaker 3: back then. I feel like the subject matter and and
Speaker 3: uh huh, I just didn't. It just didn't resonate with me,
Speaker 3: you know, Brooks and Done who I now go back
Speaker 3: and I'm like, this music is awesome. But a sixteen
Speaker 3: year old kid, you know, I don't know anything about
Speaker 3: boot Scoot and Boy. I've never I've never swing danced
Speaker 3: or whatever that whatever that song is about.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It just it was it just did
Speaker 1: not appeal to me at all. It was just very
Speaker 1: adult and not until Brad.
Speaker 3: Paisley has the uh I'm gonna miss her, you know
Speaker 3: the song about uh. She says if you know, it's
Speaker 3: like if if you if you go fishing today were
Speaker 3: over and then he just says, I'm gonna miss her.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's.
Speaker 3: That's like some ship I would do, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, especially as and so I started that's when
Speaker 3: I started getting into the country.
Speaker 1: It was just when it kind of started to just.
Speaker 3: The lyrics got a little more clar and it just
Speaker 3: appealed to like people that grew up country.
Speaker 1: I feel like that was not a thing in the nineties.
Speaker 1: There wasn't a lot.
Speaker 3: Of country boy can survive type stuff in the nineties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes sense when you could see yourself in
Speaker 4: the music. Yeah, I heard you talking about like songwriting
Speaker 4: now in Nashville has gotten very industrialized.
Speaker 3: I guess what I meant by that more than anything
Speaker 3: is it's just you don't nobody sits around and withou
Speaker 3: lights candles and says kumbai and talks about what they
Speaker 3: what they've you know, what they've been through and what
Speaker 3: that I mean that that does happen, It's happened to
Speaker 3: me and it's I've written those kinds of songs and
Speaker 3: they've been recorded and everything, but but uh, you know,
Speaker 3: really it's just you you sit down that day and
Speaker 3: you try to write a hit or just the best
Speaker 3: song in the room, and it's just it's kind of
Speaker 3: the same thing over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: And that's and that's okay. It's just it's it's a job.
Speaker 3: It's literally like any other job where you know, you
Speaker 3: kind of just do somewhat of the same thing every day,
Speaker 3: and uh, that's all I mean. You know, there's there's
Speaker 3: all kinds of cool, little magic moments throughout town. And
Speaker 3: you know, like I wrote a song that Cody Johnson
Speaker 3: recorded called Jesus Loves You. It's not what you think
Speaker 3: if you go listen to it, but about a guy
Speaker 3: that is talking to a guy in jail because the
Speaker 3: guy in jail broke into this guy's house and stuff
Speaker 3: like that. Like a buddy of mine came in with
Speaker 3: that exact story the next day because somebody had broken
Speaker 3: into his house and anyway, so like you know, stuff
Speaker 3: like that, like it does happen, but it's it's just
Speaker 3: not as common as uh as just sitting sitting down
Speaker 3: and just trying to write a good song every day.
Speaker 3: And in that way, I think it's industrialized for sure.
Speaker 4: Got you. Yeah, So are you still enjoying it? Are
Speaker 4: you still enjoying writing songs?
Speaker 1: I love it so much.
Speaker 3: It's my I enjoy it more than any part of
Speaker 3: my career. I enjoy it all, but I enjoy it
Speaker 3: more than any part of my career.
Speaker 4: I mean, that feels like pretty amazing because you've obviously
Speaker 4: done it for so long. You're almost like a decade.
Speaker 1: In right, professionally twelve years in.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, the fact that you still love it is
Speaker 4: pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 3: I mean, I like to consider myself a decent singer
Speaker 3: and a pretty good performer, but I think that the
Speaker 3: reason that I was put on this earth was to
Speaker 3: write songs. There's just just something that happens to me
Speaker 3: in a songwriting room that, like, I can be having
Speaker 3: the worst day, I could be having like a mental
Speaker 3: breakdown or anxiety or whatever it is, and the second
Speaker 3: we get on a song and start digging into a
Speaker 3: lyric or whatever.
Speaker 1: I mean, everything in the world just goes away.
Speaker 3: And that's that is that it is my zen moment,
Speaker 3: especially professionally. It's like the one time that I just
Speaker 3: sort of feel like I'm just in a different place
Speaker 3: and it's just such a cool thing.
Speaker 1: I love it so much.
Speaker 4: Have you ever tried to analyze what it is about
Speaker 4: the process that you love so much? Like, is it
Speaker 4: like the puzzle part of it? Is it the like
Speaker 4: clever side of it?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: A lot? I think all of it, I think, or
Speaker 1: at least those two things. You kind of nailed it.
Speaker 3: I mean it is very much, especially with country, like
Speaker 3: every line has a place like you're not there's you know,
Speaker 3: somewhat of rule, like you don't really you're not supposed
Speaker 3: to contradict yourself, like don't say anything that you said
Speaker 3: before in the song within the song. You know, there's
Speaker 3: all these different kind of caveats or rules or whatever, and.
Speaker 1: I just love and so in that way, it's like
Speaker 1: a puzzle.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, what do we say in the second
Speaker 3: verse that we haven't said in the first verse, and
Speaker 3: like how does that course sort of change the course?
Speaker 3: But you get back to the chorus in the same
Speaker 3: way and all that. The puzzle is like really my
Speaker 3: favorite part. But lyric more than anything, like a lyric,
Speaker 3: the lyrics more than the melody and the music and
Speaker 3: all that.
Speaker 1: That's that's where I get off. I love that stuff.
Speaker 4: Is it okay in the room when you're in the
Speaker 4: room with people and you're writing, Is it okay to
Speaker 4: use AI?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: Is it okay to like put something in chat gpt
Speaker 4: and be like can you like I do it.
Speaker 3: All the time with with with uh you get Look,
Speaker 3: here's the thing. Any Nashville songwriter would be lying if
Speaker 3: they didn't say that they didn't go to write either
Speaker 3: like rhyme zone dot com or like a rhyming.
Speaker 1: Dictionary website thing.
Speaker 3: And so if I'm stuck and I'm like, hey, can
Speaker 3: you give me a line for whatever that is in
Speaker 3: the vein of like you know, being outside in the woods,
Speaker 3: I'm just looking at my computer back screen, which is
Speaker 3: like you know the woods, and you know, half the time,
Speaker 3: like I would never chat chat GPT doesn't have a soul,
Speaker 3: so like it doesn't a I would never ask it.
Speaker 3: But it doesn't get like the inner soul that produces
Speaker 3: like the lyric that will make somebody cry, if that
Speaker 3: makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that all just comes from being a.
Speaker 3: Human, but with like rhymes and just sort of stuff,
Speaker 3: really simple stuff I've used it before for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like it's, if anything, it's like a
Speaker 4: good jumping off point.
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean it's not going I love that. You
Speaker 1: might as well be a part of it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: So when you locked yourself in the room, what did
Speaker 4: you figure out about country? Like what was the formula?
Speaker 4: Did you crack the formula or did you were you
Speaker 4: like trying to figure out themes that like resonated with
Speaker 4: big audiences or were you trying to think more about
Speaker 4: like verse, chorus bridge, that kind of thing, like the
Speaker 4: mechanics of the song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more more of the mechanics. You know.
Speaker 3: I didn't really get into I still, I swear to
Speaker 3: this day, not until like you're at you're deep in
Speaker 3: the middle of.
Speaker 1: A song, do you think, like, oh man, okay, this
Speaker 1: is a hit.
Speaker 3: Like what if we do a moment right here where
Speaker 3: it's like booom crowd moment, you know, like that's kind
Speaker 3: of that comes way later, I feel in the process,
Speaker 3: at least for me, it did. So for me, I
Speaker 3: was just figuring out the structure and it's just you know,
Speaker 3: it's like you either go verse chorus, verse chorus, bridge, chorus,
Speaker 3: or you go verse chorus, verse, chorus, solo, chorus, or
Speaker 3: you start with a chorus and then you do a
Speaker 3: verse and then a chorus and then a solo and
Speaker 3: then a bridge. You know, there's there's like four or
Speaker 3: five different formulas, and I don't know, I just kind
Speaker 3: of felt like I learned those types of things.
Speaker 1: And you know, a big one for me was paying attention.
Speaker 3: I was a big M and M fan, still am,
Speaker 3: but figuring out how to phrase lines putting emphasis on
Speaker 3: the right vowels so that there is a uh is
Speaker 3: it assonance? And I think it's assonance is the one
Speaker 3: that like puts the emphasis on the vowels And so
Speaker 3: if if if, like I studied that a lot, like,
Speaker 3: because there's certain ways you can phrase a line that said,
Speaker 3: and you can phrase a line two different ways and
Speaker 3: make them sound one sounds like a hit and one
Speaker 3: doesn't sound like a hit. And it's all about where
Speaker 3: you put the emphasis on certain like parts of the word.
Speaker 1: And I wish that I could just pull one out
Speaker 1: of my ass and do it right now.
Speaker 4: Dude, wait, can you think of one from your own
Speaker 4: catalog or maybe something from Eminem, like an Eminem song
Speaker 4: where he does Okay.
Speaker 1: Let me think really quick.
Speaker 3: Uh oh my god, that's this is gonna kill me now,
Speaker 3: because like you can't do it now.
Speaker 4: So if you put emphasis on a word in a sentence,
Speaker 4: it'll make it sound more like a hit. Is that
Speaker 4: what you're saying?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like if you if you were gonna say like like.
Speaker 4: Think of like a Morgan Wallin's or some like big like.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, So the second verse of more than
Speaker 3: my Hometown, I ain't the runaway kind.
Speaker 1: I can't change that.
Speaker 3: My heart's stuck in these streets like the train tracks,
Speaker 3: city sky ain't the same black?
Speaker 1: Ain't that a map dot? Shame?
Speaker 3: And to think that chorus I Love you More, it's
Speaker 3: just like finding those vowels that sound the same and
Speaker 3: making sure that you sing them the exact same every
Speaker 3: single time, so that it just sounds like a bar.
Speaker 1: It sounds like an eminem song, you know.
Speaker 4: It sounds very hip hoppy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so cool. I studied that.
Speaker 3: There's a guy he's still around and he's written so
Speaker 3: many hits. But Casey Bethard, I'm not gonna call him
Speaker 3: old man. I'm gonna run into him and be like, boy,
Speaker 3: you call me old man, but he it's like, man,
Speaker 3: I want to I'm always wanted to ask him, like, dude,
Speaker 3: who did you listen to to to develop your internal
Speaker 3: rhyme scheme? Because he if you go back, I mean,
Speaker 3: you look at all the songs he's written, but he's
Speaker 3: just got He had such a cool way of finding
Speaker 3: those internal rhymes because they're kind of sometimes they can
Speaker 3: be hidden in a line, you know, and the right
Speaker 3: person sings it the right way and you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: that sounds awesome. But he he, I really learned from him.
Speaker 3: And Rodney Clausen was another one. There's a second verse
Speaker 3: or first verse of that. Uh. Actually, I don't even
Speaker 3: know if Rodney wrote this song. But around here at
Speaker 3: g L, I'm gonna pick her up at six.
Speaker 1: I hope she's gonna wear the geens with the tear
Speaker 1: that her mama never fixed. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's just finding all the little internal internal rhymes in
Speaker 3: there that makes a song better.
Speaker 1: It always makes a song better.
Speaker 4: Cool.
Speaker 3: I say all the time, if you if you when
Speaker 3: you're writing a song and it's like a tongue twister.
Speaker 3: Sometimes people are like, ah, that's kind of hard to sing,
Speaker 3: and I'm like no, because when you finally spit it out,
Speaker 3: it's gonna sound awesome, like it's you know when it's
Speaker 3: hard to say that means it's it's it's a good thing.
Speaker 1: You just have to learn it, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I feel like with the song radio song, you're
Speaker 4: writing about the thing, like you're commenting on things and
Speaker 4: getting really clever with like the fourth wa yes, yeah, yes,
Speaker 4: did you start doing that like out of boredom? Like
Speaker 4: were you trying to make a statement like how like
Speaker 4: where did that come from?
Speaker 3: I just always liked songs about songs or like they
Speaker 3: call it meta to you know, like it's yes, like uh,
Speaker 3: and for radio songs specifically, I just I've there's a
Speaker 3: few songs that have done that in history that I
Speaker 3: loved and I wanted my own version of that. There
Speaker 3: was a song, you know a lot of people don't know,
Speaker 3: the Hey Ya buy outcast is about how people these
Speaker 3: days don't stay together anymore. They just get married and
Speaker 3: then they'll just get divorced. And that song is like
Speaker 3: my baby don't mess around because she loves me so
Speaker 3: and this I know for sure, Like thank God for
Speaker 3: mom and dad for sticking to together because we don't
Speaker 3: know how, and then and the bridge, he's like, y'all.
Speaker 1: Don't want to hear me, you just want to dance. Hey, y'all,
Speaker 1: Like this.
Speaker 3: Song is, yes, it's like really cool, but the chorus
Speaker 3: is just like you.
Speaker 1: Know, man, but whatever, y'all don't care. Here's a chorus.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of where I just I.
Speaker 3: Wanted to do something like that with with radio song.
Speaker 3: And by no means was I fed up. I mean
Speaker 3: I wrote that in the peak of my well, I
Speaker 3: like to say, my first peek in my songwriting career.
Speaker 3: So like my relationship with radio was great and I'm
Speaker 3: like praising God every day for the radio, so you know,
Speaker 3: and most of the radio people that I've come in
Speaker 3: contact with, they love it and they get the cheekiness
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 1: And when I play it live, yeah, I'll if the
Speaker 1: radio people.
Speaker 3: Are in the room, I'll give him a wink and
Speaker 3: kind of make a big smile like I'm never really
Speaker 3: angry about it. I just I just wanted to write
Speaker 3: a song about a song. And that's not the first
Speaker 3: time I've done it, but I enjoy doing it sometimes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's fun and it makes sense when like
Speaker 4: knowing that you admire people like Eminem. He commented a
Speaker 4: lot on the state of like the music business and
Speaker 4: just pop culture in general.
Speaker 3: Fleewood Matt kind of did it with rumors, but it
Speaker 3: was a little bit more cryptic. But like Eminem was
Speaker 3: the first person also to just completely open up his
Speaker 3: actual life to the world, and so it was like
Speaker 3: listening to reality music, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, I don't ever, I don't
Speaker 3: have the balls to do that. I don't want to
Speaker 3: air out which I don't have a whole lot of laundry,
Speaker 3: but I don't want to air out my laundry to
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 1: But he you know, I've always admired him for that
Speaker 1: because that was really brave of him to do that,
Speaker 1: and it worked.
Speaker 3: People became invested in like his story, you know, and
Speaker 3: it just it totally worked, and I think that's so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then he had like eight Mile and then that's
Speaker 4: even like taking it further. Yeah. And then bro Country.
Speaker 4: I want to ask you about that song too, So
Speaker 4: is the bro Country era? Like that's over?
Speaker 1: Okay, So I you know, I'm glad you asked.
Speaker 3: I have not commented on this yet, Okay, me and
Speaker 3: Arn came up with that idea together at at Morgan
Speaker 3: wallin Show of All Things, we were opening for him like.
Speaker 1: Three and a half to four years ago.
Speaker 3: I feel like that concept completely, like I'm I'm like
Speaker 3: owning up to this, but I feel like the concept
Speaker 3: of bro country the song is kind of out the
Speaker 3: window because I now feel like in the next few
Speaker 3: years some of that is going to come back. And
Speaker 3: I'm just being completely honest. You know, when we wrote it,
Speaker 3: it was like, man, there's all these new people that
Speaker 3: are coming in and they're you know, it was very
Speaker 3: it was very fresh off of like a really potent
Speaker 3: bro country era. But even just four or five and
Speaker 3: now almost maybe six years later, you know, there there's
Speaker 3: a guy. There's a guy kid right now named Cody Loadin.
Speaker 3: He's doing this like broke. He's got a song called
Speaker 3: a Buckle Up and it's just it's just earwormy, like
Speaker 3: the debt the Muse. The lyrics aren't super super deep,
Speaker 3: but they're so well written, and it's just it's that thing.
Speaker 1: It's just like, don't know what we're gonna do tonight,
Speaker 1: but baby buckle Up. But it just it sounds good,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: I saw a girl, Lauren Watkins make a video a
Speaker 3: while back and she was like, I'm just gonna say
Speaker 3: I miss bro Country. Uh, And she was like, I
Speaker 3: want She didn't use word objectified, but she was like,
Speaker 3: I want to be called hot.
Speaker 1: I want people to think I look hot with my
Speaker 1: legs swinging off tailgate. I miss it. Bring it back.
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, you know that's right.
Speaker 3: And I honestly believe that girls that grew up in
Speaker 3: that era listening to that kind of miss that a
Speaker 3: little bit.
Speaker 1: And Morgan Morgan will do it like Morgan.
Speaker 3: Does it, and but he's kind of the only guy
Speaker 3: that sort of can still get away with it. But
Speaker 3: all that to be said, I think it's going to
Speaker 3: come back in the next ten years. I think it's
Speaker 3: going to come back, and I just I'm here for it.
Speaker 3: So sorry, bro Country. Broke Country was was It wasn't
Speaker 3: a bad idea, but I think it was a short
Speaker 3: lived thought.
Speaker 2: Yep, we'll be back with more from Hardy after the break.
Speaker 4: I heard you say in a different interview that you
Speaker 4: were talking about how if you have a number one hit.
Speaker 4: I think it was if you have like a number
Speaker 4: one song on the radio, you get like as a songwriter,
Speaker 4: you get like two hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, take yeah, give or take.
Speaker 4: And I was just curious, like as a range, like,
Speaker 4: how does being a songwriter compare to being an artist
Speaker 4: who's touring, who's like playing stadiums monitor earl. But yeah,
Speaker 4: just like range wise, like like.
Speaker 1: Touring makes way more money if you're killing it.
Speaker 3: But something that I learned recently, and I'll be somewhat
Speaker 3: cryptic here, but like if you do have a string
Speaker 3: of hits as a songwriter, you have the ability to
Speaker 3: sell your catalog and you don't get that back, you know,
Speaker 3: so you kind of want to make sure that most
Speaker 3: of the stream has run out, your revenue stream from
Speaker 3: the songs that you're selling has run out. But if
Speaker 3: you have enough hits and you sell a catalog as
Speaker 3: a songwriter, you can make a shit ton of money.
Speaker 3: And it kind of will put in perspective like touring
Speaker 3: versus writing, if that makes sense, right, because if you're
Speaker 3: like a well, if you're a stadium act, that's like
Speaker 3: a different level of money and that's not I'm I'm
Speaker 3: like an amphitheater act at best, but.
Speaker 1: It is really good.
Speaker 3: But you know, you would have to be really crushing
Speaker 3: it as a songwriter to kind of get close to
Speaker 3: like a somebody that's crushing it touring, to be honest.
Speaker 3: But again, yeah, the catalog sale kind of makes up
Speaker 3: for that on the back end a little bit because
Speaker 3: that's a really that's like you're super ball as a
Speaker 3: songwriter too, is you want to be able to do
Speaker 3: that one Day's that creates that's a different type of
Speaker 3: like send your grandkids to.
Speaker 4: College, totally generational wealth. Yeah, so how do you know
Speaker 4: when you said, like when it's run its course? Like,
Speaker 4: how do you know when that time is?
Speaker 3: I mean, if you have a business manager, they can
Speaker 3: kind of keep an eye on it, but you just
Speaker 3: like you get you get a statement from your pro quarterly,
Speaker 3: the people that pay you, and you could just see,
Speaker 3: you know, like I can go pull my last statement
Speaker 3: up and you know obviously like I wrote a Blake
Speaker 3: Shelton song called God's Country and like that's that was
Speaker 3: one of my biggest hits.
Speaker 1: And and like at its.
Speaker 3: Peak it was making this much and you know I
Speaker 3: can just see that, like you can just sort of
Speaker 3: tell when it sort of dwindles down to around this,
Speaker 3: maybe a very lower five five figure number for a
Speaker 3: year or so at a time, and then you know,
Speaker 3: basically a company is willing to buy that song for
Speaker 3: more than what that fight what fivegers quarterly would make
Speaker 3: in your lifetime.
Speaker 1: So you're kind of taking the money and run, but.
Speaker 3: Running, yeah, because like it's it's still an investment for
Speaker 3: other companies because over one hundred years it's gonna or
Speaker 3: seventy years, it's gonna make more than what they paid
Speaker 3: you for it.
Speaker 1: But you're like, you know, again, make the money and
Speaker 1: run kind of thing.
Speaker 4: But then something like a Stranger Things could license a song.
Speaker 3: Because because they could, you could get like an eight
Speaker 3: figure deal off of something crazy and then Sony or
Speaker 3: you know, somebody like that owns it now and that happens.
Speaker 1: You know, like you just never know, Like you never know.
Speaker 3: A song that I sold could could be sampled and
Speaker 3: be the biggest like Swedish dance song in the world
Speaker 3: and make a ton of money, and you know, but
Speaker 3: that's just that's kind of the risk that you take
Speaker 3: when you sell a catalog, So you just never know.
Speaker 4: I was curious about the way that you sequence an
Speaker 4: album with country country you like with the song bottom Land,
Speaker 4: Why did you put that all the way at the
Speaker 4: end of the album? Like, how do you think about
Speaker 4: the sequencing?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't remember that since that that record had like
Speaker 3: twenty songs on it, I fel that was harder for
Speaker 3: me to curate or or to to make the list
Speaker 3: for sure.
Speaker 1: So I can't really.
Speaker 3: Give an answer as to why more towards the end,
Speaker 3: to be honest with you, but I will say I do.
Speaker 3: I'm heavily involved, if not one responsible for every track
Speaker 3: order of every record that I've done.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's just you know, I know that.
Speaker 3: People don't listen to albums front to back anymore, but
Speaker 3: I feel like in that way, I'm kind of an
Speaker 3: old soul, and it's like I've always loved albums and
Speaker 3: like a body of work, and I think that, you know,
Speaker 3: for people that create music to make a body of work,
Speaker 3: I guess want it to be listened to front to back.
Speaker 3: And so I definitely will look at the list of
Speaker 3: songs and try to like pull you emotionally all over
Speaker 3: the place by the end, so that there's nothing that
Speaker 3: seems too monoton or or too repetitive.
Speaker 1: On the record if that makes it Yes, Yeah.
Speaker 4: You mentioned that it had a really long track list,
Speaker 4: Like why not just put half of those out and
Speaker 4: save the other half for a future release.
Speaker 1: I just I don't. I don't operate like that.
Speaker 3: Like I this this record was very intentionally country and
Speaker 3: and yeah it was. It was kind of a retaliation
Speaker 3: to me leaving the country space for a year and
Speaker 3: going into the rock space because my last record was
Speaker 3: called Quit and we we marketed that as a rock record.
Speaker 3: So this was sort of almost I didn't treat the
Speaker 3: music sarcastically, but like it was like a here's your
Speaker 3: here's a big ass country record for everybody to enjoy.
Speaker 3: And uh, and that it's just it's where my head space.
Speaker 3: That's where I was, like, you know, in my headspace,
Speaker 3: and and uh, I like I said, I want to
Speaker 3: move on, and like I have a different project already
Speaker 3: in mind for like the next thing.
Speaker 4: And so no, I know you do. I want to
Speaker 4: hear about it.
Speaker 1: What is it? Is?
Speaker 4: It way different?
Speaker 1: It's yes, a little bit of the same, a little
Speaker 1: bit different.
Speaker 3: It's just it's a I'm getting back to like a
Speaker 3: concept kind of like the mocking bird and the Crow
Speaker 3: which was my second album, which I still think is
Speaker 3: kind of my flagship record.
Speaker 4: So far, right because it's got the country and the
Speaker 4: rock together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that.
Speaker 3: It's sick if somebody was like, who's hardy, you know,
Speaker 3: like what what should I listen to? Like, that's that's
Speaker 3: what the reference probably is. But no, I mean, I
Speaker 3: have I have a concept. I'll probably have my first
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have like an eight minute song on the record,
Speaker 3: which I'm stoked about that kind of talks about the concept.
Speaker 3: And it's just I'm just trying to continue to sort
Speaker 3: of push boundaries and just keep people on their.
Speaker 1: Toes and make people just be like what the fuck?
Speaker 4: And that's just is it like a different genre of music,
Speaker 4: like a totally different genre or is it like just
Speaker 4: new metal and country.
Speaker 1: A little bit of this little bit of that.
Speaker 4: Is it like trap or something?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, it's not like that.
Speaker 3: It's it's all Look, it's all under the umbrella of
Speaker 3: like me and my music.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's it's more it's less like a
Speaker 1: genre changing and more of like a theme.
Speaker 3: It's more of like, uh, a concept, yeah, like a
Speaker 3: concept or it's just it's got more of a theme,
Speaker 3: an intentional theme to the structure of the album. I'm
Speaker 3: still probably a year out from a record coming out,
Speaker 3: hopefully more because I need some time to really I
Speaker 3: want this one to really count, because I've always believed too,
Speaker 3: Like you know, my first record was a rock and
Speaker 3: it did well, but then the Mocky Bird and the
Speaker 3: Crow did really well, and then Quit didn't do quite
Speaker 3: as good as Marckybird and the Crow, and then Country
Speaker 3: Country did a little bit better than Quit, but.
Speaker 4: Not as good as Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: But I'm a firm believer that that just because you
Speaker 3: had records that followed a record that didn't do as
Speaker 3: good doesn't mean that you're done making your best record.
Speaker 3: Pretty Hate Machine was nine Inch Nails as first record,
Speaker 3: and I think that came out in like eighty nine
Speaker 3: or nine or something, and that was like their biggest
Speaker 3: record for a long time. And then With Teeth came
Speaker 3: out like seventeen years later, and that is like the
Speaker 3: record that everybody knows nine inch Nails by, and I'm like, man,
Speaker 3: if they can do that, I feel like I can
Speaker 3: do that. I just have to keep trusting myself and
Speaker 3: know that there's still something greater out there to explore.
Speaker 4: Do you feel like you make the music for you
Speaker 4: or do you make it for the audience.
Speaker 1: I think I make it for me. I've thought about
Speaker 1: this a lot.
Speaker 3: I just want to make stuff that's like I would
Speaker 3: think is cool, you know, like that I would listen to.
Speaker 3: I think I definitely think like when I get something
Speaker 3: really great, I'm like, my fans were gonna love this,
Speaker 3: but I don't. I'm not making anything for anyone outside
Speaker 3: of my fan base to be impressed with. Like, I
Speaker 3: just want, like I'm not like, man, I need more
Speaker 3: metal fans, or I need more traditional country fans, or
Speaker 3: I need to do like I just don't operate like that.
Speaker 3: So but mostly I just I want to make shit
Speaker 3: that I just think sounds cool, and like me and
Speaker 3: buddies all just think is cool, you know, And and yeah,
Speaker 3: that's just sort of the starting point, I guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, let's break and we'll be back with Hardy.
Speaker 4: Have you had to deal with any friends or any
Speaker 4: collaborators who want to kind of be like where you're at,
Speaker 4: Like any fellow songwriters people you work with that also
Speaker 4: want to be maybe artists themselves, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 4: can't make that transition or have tried and haven't found success. Yeah,
Speaker 4: have you had to deal with that? Like has that
Speaker 4: hard for you being someone who has crossed over and
Speaker 4: found success?
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not not necessarily everybody that. Like, Like,
Speaker 3: my best friend is his name is Hunter Phelps, and
Speaker 3: he he did the artist thing for a while and
Speaker 3: just never he he did really well, but he never
Speaker 3: like never signed a deal, never had a radio single
Speaker 3: or anything like that. And and he you know, so
Speaker 3: he kind of hung it up, or at least, you know,
Speaker 3: full time hung it up. And then he has like
Speaker 3: fifteen number ones under his belt as a writer now,
Speaker 3: so like most people have parlor or transitioned into something
Speaker 3: really great. Another friend of mine, Jordan Brooker. Jordan was
Speaker 3: a songwriter and he was one of the kind of
Speaker 3: guys that that and he would he would be fine
Speaker 3: with me saying this sort of got like he sort
Speaker 3: of went into a corner and was like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I kind of want to.
Speaker 1: Go do like my own rock thing.
Speaker 3: And we were all like, bro, we're all writing country
Speaker 3: songs like come with Us, and so I feel like
Speaker 3: he kind of got left behind a little bit. And
Speaker 3: then like ten years later, I end up signing his
Speaker 3: rock band to a record label and he's killing it
Speaker 3: and he's making like awesome music.
Speaker 1: So every I feel like everybody that.
Speaker 3: That I felt like has not had success has turned
Speaker 3: whatever that into something else that's been really great.
Speaker 1: So that's really special.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome. Why do you think that it worked
Speaker 4: out so well for you when there's like, I don't
Speaker 4: know if there's so many people have you know, I'm
Speaker 4: sure a ton of people moved to Nashville to try
Speaker 4: and do the exact same thing, but you made it. Like,
Speaker 4: what do you think the difference is? Like do you
Speaker 4: think it's innate talent? Do you think you just are
Speaker 4: you work harder, you met the like the right people, Like,
Speaker 4: what is it?
Speaker 1: I think it's just all of it luck. I think
Speaker 1: it's all of it together.
Speaker 3: But I think the driving force for me is just
Speaker 3: being a decent person.
Speaker 1: And just treating people right and being polite.
Speaker 3: And everybody has their moments, like you know, and it
Speaker 3: sucks when you do have a bad moment with a
Speaker 3: fan or with somebody, or somebody sees you kind of
Speaker 3: being an ascid But you know what, man, we're all
Speaker 3: we all have those days.
Speaker 1: We all have those moments.
Speaker 3: It just sucks to be sort of in the spotlight
Speaker 3: or just being kind of caught at the wrong place
Speaker 3: at the right or wrong time.
Speaker 1: But you know, talent is.
Speaker 3: Fifty one percent of it, luck is ten percent, right
Speaker 3: place at the right time is ten percent, and then
Speaker 3: the other twenty nine percent or whatever is I really
Speaker 3: truly believe, and hard work is in there too. But
Speaker 3: it's just being somebody that people want to work with.
Speaker 3: Because I can tell you right now I have people
Speaker 3: that I write with that are not the best writers
Speaker 3: in town. There are people that are more talented than
Speaker 3: the people I love working with. That sucks as a
Speaker 3: human being, and I don't want to work with that
Speaker 3: person period. So, like Pete, just be somebody that people
Speaker 3: want to work with, that people.
Speaker 1: Want to root for, and and and just a good
Speaker 1: hanging pet that people like being.
Speaker 3: You know that you make people feel comfortable being being
Speaker 3: around you. I think it. There's so much of that.
Speaker 3: I mean, all of the all of the biggest people
Speaker 3: in Nashville, the people that I looked up to, like
Speaker 3: Blake Shelton, the Luke Bryan, Miranda Lambert, Derk's Bentley have
Speaker 3: all been the most kind, easy to be around people,
Speaker 3: personable and just normal at their core people.
Speaker 1: And I just I truly believe that's why.
Speaker 3: That's what turns people into like a superstar, is that
Speaker 3: so many people just love.
Speaker 1: Who you are.
Speaker 4: I feel like Lady like that too. She seems so.
Speaker 1: Cool, unbelievably normal, Like unbelievably normal.
Speaker 3: She would she hits me up all the time and
Speaker 3: she's we our schedules are also crazy, so we haven't
Speaker 3: done it.
Speaker 1: But she's like, you want to go get some.
Speaker 3: Mexican food, you know, And I'm just like, man, it
Speaker 3: just sounds like something. You know, she is my buddy,
Speaker 3: but just sounds like something one of my guys buddies
Speaker 3: would just be like, hey, dude, you know. I mean,
Speaker 3: she's so that girl for the amount of success and
Speaker 3: stardom that she's experienced, has not changed a single bit.
Speaker 1: And I love that so much about her.
Speaker 4: Is there anybody that you want to work with on
Speaker 4: the new album that you can tell us about, like
Speaker 4: any collaborations or any like new metal people, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. I mean, I love Mike. Mike
Speaker 1: Shinoda would be really cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's so cool have you met him?
Speaker 1: No, No, I never met him.
Speaker 3: That would be very cool, even I mean I would
Speaker 3: do another song with Fred Durst, or even like if
Speaker 3: I had, like Wes Borland play like a a part
Speaker 3: on something I don't know's there's a million a million people,
Speaker 3: I'm sure that would come to mind.
Speaker 1: But I haven't really given it a lot of thought yet.
Speaker 3: I've only written I think five or six songs for
Speaker 3: this next project, and I've got a long way to go.
Speaker 4: So okay, you have twenty more So with like the
Speaker 4: Fred the Fred Dirt back to the Fred Durst song,
Speaker 4: like when he did he send you that verse and
Speaker 4: then you listen to it and then like did you
Speaker 4: work remotely or cause you guys weren't in the same
Speaker 4: we weren't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had that hook, I had that chorus. When
Speaker 3: we cut it in the studio, we just cut like,
Speaker 3: you know whatever. It was sixteen bar verse and I
Speaker 3: just sent it to him and he was like, what's
Speaker 3: what kind of vibe are you feeling? And I sort
Speaker 3: of would send it back and then he was like
Speaker 3: what about this? And I'm pretty sure the first thing
Speaker 3: he sent back, I was like, that sounds like Fred Durst. Like,
Speaker 3: that's that's cool to me, and that's what we went with.
Speaker 3: But yeah, unfortunately we didn't get to sit in the
Speaker 3: same room together, but it was it was again, like
Speaker 3: extremely cool, and you know, he didn't he didn't go silent,
Speaker 3: but like he had just had a kid or something.
Speaker 1: Kind of right in the middle of it.
Speaker 3: So I didn't hear from him for like a few weeks,
Speaker 3: and then I was writing a song with some friends, uh,
Speaker 3: and I was wearing a hat to say live laugh
Speaker 3: lit biscuit kind.
Speaker 1: Of cheesy, and that day he texted out of the blue.
Speaker 3: After like three weeks I'm not hearing from him, he
Speaker 3: texted me all like his verses and stuff, and I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, that's cool, and I sent him a
Speaker 3: selfie wearing the hat and then he was like yo,
Speaker 3: he was like who made that hat?
Speaker 1: I'm about to go sue him and put that on
Speaker 1: our own merch line.
Speaker 4: Totally, that's crazy. So do you feel comfortable at that
Speaker 4: point since you look up to him so much and
Speaker 4: you love him, Like, do you feel comfortable being like, oh, hey,
Speaker 4: can you change like the third line or.
Speaker 3: Yeah it doesn't definitely, yeah, yeah, I mean in a
Speaker 3: creative space, you know, and he's an artist and he
Speaker 3: gets that. So I, you know, I don't really remember
Speaker 3: the details of that conversation, but one percent if there
Speaker 3: was one thing that bothered me. Again, he's a creative,
Speaker 3: so he totally gets it. I I feel like he
Speaker 3: would totally respect.
Speaker 1: That and and and and come back with.
Speaker 3: Whatever was best for the song for sure, which is
Speaker 3: so crazy to think about.
Speaker 1: You know, Hey, Fred Durst, I didn't like that on
Speaker 1: a lie or whatever.
Speaker 3: But you know, that's the great thing about working with
Speaker 3: great artists is, you know, people we're all just on
Speaker 3: the same page. Like, yeah, I haven't gotten in an
Speaker 3: argument with an artist or like a songwriter.
Speaker 1: Maybe ever, but in a very long.
Speaker 3: Time, because it just everybody is in it for the
Speaker 3: greater good of writing a great song. And that's what
Speaker 3: I think a true creative is is that's just that's
Speaker 3: what they do. And and yeah, it's been it's been
Speaker 3: really cool to work with all different kind of artists.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, I've done stuff like Bear Teeth.
Speaker 3: And and everything from I mean post Alone and uh
Speaker 3: It to.
Speaker 1: Like Landy Wilson and there's they you're all they're all
Speaker 1: on the same page. It's all. It's all doing the
Speaker 1: same kind of work, just with different people.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I just want to ask you about Joey moy Yeah,
Speaker 4: so he used to be you mentioned Nickelback, So he
Speaker 4: was a producer with Nickelback, right, and then now he's
Speaker 4: kind of like transitioned into this to like a whole
Speaker 4: like country Nashville kind of career. Is he sort of
Speaker 4: like the mastermind behind a movement in Nashville? Like, how
Speaker 4: do you describe his position right now? Like what he's built.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he's done it twice in that and
Speaker 3: he's done it three times in music.
Speaker 1: I mean he so he he did. He started I.
Speaker 3: Believe as an engineer and that in Vancouver working on
Speaker 3: Nickelback records, and then he got the producer gig for
Speaker 3: I want to say dark Horse, but I want to
Speaker 3: say it was like, uh, it was after Silver Side Up,
Speaker 3: so it was maybe like all the right reasons the
Speaker 3: Long Road and dark Horse. But anyway, he was a
Speaker 3: part of the Nickelback's like a really big wave. And
Speaker 3: then he was involved with a guy named a manager
Speaker 3: in town that just goes by.
Speaker 1: Chief, I believe, and Chief had moved to Nashville.
Speaker 3: I also believe and talked to Joey into coming and
Speaker 3: producing some songs. That's that's Rodney Clausen was involved. Long
Speaker 3: story short, Joey came and produced a jac Ohen record
Speaker 3: and kind of put this stadium rock thing on it,
Speaker 3: and Jake had a song called Barefoot the Blue g
Speaker 3: Knight that was like massive, and then from there he
Speaker 3: started producing Florida Georgia Line and then like that just
Speaker 3: sort of that changed everything for a very long time
Speaker 3: in Nashville. I think still to this day, is that
Speaker 3: one stuck like there will be people that sound like FGL,
Speaker 3: I think for a long time. Yeah, and then uh,
Speaker 3: around the time actually yeah, around the time FGL broke
Speaker 3: up Morgan walland took off and Joey produced all of
Speaker 3: Morgan stuff, And so yeah, I mean he's he's he's
Speaker 3: got a thing figured out. I've sat in every single
Speaker 3: and he's my producer as well. I sat in every
Speaker 3: single set, every song we've ever recorded. He's extremely meticulous.
Speaker 3: His biggest thing is like there never being any blank
Speaker 3: space in a song. When there can be a catchy
Speaker 3: part that's written, it's usually a guitar part, but like
Speaker 3: feeling the space feeling the space, making sure it's palatable
Speaker 3: and you can sing along to it, and that whole thing.
Speaker 3: I think that's a big part of how he produces,
Speaker 3: is just making sure that there's no dead space for
Speaker 3: anybody to become or to get bored. You know, he's
Speaker 3: out in LA now kind of running the rock label,
Speaker 3: and I feel like, I kind of joke. I haven't
Speaker 3: said this to him, but I think he's just like
Speaker 3: he's not at the end of his career, but he's
Speaker 3: done so much shit and I think he's made so
Speaker 3: much money that he's like, I just want to run
Speaker 3: a rock label and sign rock bands and like do
Speaker 3: that whole thing.
Speaker 1: So he's spending a lot of time.
Speaker 3: In LA right now doing that and just just living
Speaker 3: his best life.
Speaker 4: I feel like with it's like the pressure is off,
Speaker 4: He's probably gonna have a whole new era, like a
Speaker 4: whole new success, like find a whole new group of
Speaker 4: people that are good to kill it.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, he's one of the smartest people, if
Speaker 3: not the smartest human that I know, so like he
Speaker 3: completely understands this new era with social media, Like I like,
Speaker 3: shit that goes over my head and I'm just like
Speaker 3: how Michael Scott says, explain this to me like I'm
Speaker 3: a ten year old.
Speaker 1: That's how I feel like talking to him a lot.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but he just gets it.
Speaker 3: He's one of those people that like he'll be around
Speaker 3: forever because he just understands music on a different level
Speaker 3: than a lot of people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Hardy. I'll let you go,
Speaker 4: But thank you so much. It's been cool to talk
Speaker 4: to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: I feel like when we get into songwriting, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I could talk hours about songwriting.
Speaker 1: I love it so much. So thanks for letting me
Speaker 1: open up about that.
Speaker 2: In the episode description, you'll find a link to a
Speaker 2: playlist of our favorite Hardy songs. Be sure to check
Speaker 2: out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see
Speaker 2: all our video interviews. Broken Record is produced and edited
Speaker 2: by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler and
Speaker 2: Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production.
Speaker 1: Of Pushkin indis.
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Speaker 2: Our theme music expect Henny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.