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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Everyone,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jason Kelley and I'm Mike Lynch. This is the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business the Sports podcast where we explore the big

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Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. We've got a

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Speaker 1: very special show for you today. He's an NBA Hall

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Speaker 1: of Famer, Olympic gold medal winner and the coach of

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Speaker 1: little team called the Georgetown Hoyas Patrick Ewing joining the podcast. Coach,

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Speaker 1: Really great to have you with us. How are you,

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Speaker 1: How are you? We're doing well, So tell us what

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Speaker 1: has it been like coaching, recruiting, all of the normal

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Speaker 1: things you would be doing during this globule of pandemic.

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Speaker 1: It's been trying. You know, one recruiting, everything is done

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Speaker 1: on zoom, so you can't you know, there's a dead period,

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Speaker 1: so you can't get out, you can travel, so in

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Speaker 1: in in one sentence, it's rough because you know you

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Speaker 1: can't really get out and see them in person. But

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Speaker 1: in another sense, uh, it's good because not spending a

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Speaker 1: lot of money traveling and staying in the hotel. But

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Speaker 1: you know it's like that for everyone, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: that's the way that college sports is right now, let

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Speaker 1: me ask you the same question back, Let's go back

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Speaker 1: to eighty one when John Thompson came to your house

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Speaker 1: and met your mom and your dad, and you would

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Speaker 1: you have had a different impression of him had you

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Speaker 1: met him through zoom as opposed to in person. You

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Speaker 1: know what, it's hard to say because you know back

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Speaker 1: then it wasn't the zoom wasn't the uh, cell phones

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Speaker 1: wasn't allowed it. All the different things are the different.

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Speaker 1: All the various luxuries that we have now we didn't

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Speaker 1: have back then. So you know, right now, this is

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Speaker 1: just how you know life is so Coach, if we can,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about John Thompson, of course, the legendary basketball

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Speaker 1: coach of the Hoyas, because Lynchi and I both had

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Speaker 1: a chance to read the book that he wrote. It

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Speaker 1: was published posthumously for our listeners. It's called I Came

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Speaker 1: as a Shadow. He wrote it with Jesse Washington. He

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Speaker 1: as a writer for The Undefeated. He came on this show,

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Speaker 1: Jesse Washington did. And it's clear in talking to him

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Speaker 1: and in reading the book that you coach, youing figure

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Speaker 1: so prominently in the legacy of the Hoyas under coach Thompson.

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Speaker 1: It's also clear he loved you. He says, no matter

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Speaker 1: what happens, you were his favorite player of all time.

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Speaker 1: So tell us what his legacy is for you, and

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Speaker 1: especially how you think about it holding the same job

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Speaker 1: he did. Well, his legacy is all of us, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of it. You know, you have to talk about

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Speaker 1: his kids, Ronnie, John, Tiffany, and then you know, all

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Speaker 1: the people who played for him. You know, we're all

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Speaker 1: part of his legacy. We're all part of his of

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Speaker 1: his tree um, you know, and everything that we do

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Speaker 1: from here on is you know, based on the things

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Speaker 1: that we are learned and built from him. You know,

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Speaker 1: you you went to the NBA. Some of your teammates

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Speaker 1: went to the NBA, but not everybody that John Thompson

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Speaker 1: coached went the professional basketball. They had to get real

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Speaker 1: jobs in the real world. Was this impact more on

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Speaker 1: those players as opposed to people like yourself, who had

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Speaker 1: you know, ticketed for the NBA. I mean, that's that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that he's always talked about, you know,

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Speaker 1: And you know he has that he has a deflated

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Speaker 1: ball in his office, you know, to signify that at

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Speaker 1: some point the basketball is gonna stop. I only the

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Speaker 1: air is gonna you know, uh be sucked out of

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Speaker 1: the basketball, meaning that at some point you won't be

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Speaker 1: able to dribble the ball. You know. Some people that

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Speaker 1: came right out of college. Some people like myself was

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Speaker 1: able to play you know, seventeen years. But then at

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Speaker 1: some point it did, uh, you know, stop bouncings bouncing

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Speaker 1: for me. And then I was fortunate enough to be

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Speaker 1: able to come up to get the great jobs. But

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Speaker 1: I think that he is impact on all of us,

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Speaker 1: not only the guys who played, but also the guys

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Speaker 1: who had to go, you know, get a job working

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Speaker 1: on Wall Street, working wherever you know, uh for Nike

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Speaker 1: or you know, the Olympic community, all these different places

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Speaker 1: that where you know, these are guys are uh you know,

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Speaker 1: like I said, those are his legacy. We are his legacy.

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Speaker 1: All the things that that that we have done in

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Speaker 1: our lives based on all the things that he has

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Speaker 1: shown us, bringing in people from from other walks of

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Speaker 1: life who looked like us, and given us the dream

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Speaker 1: that you know, uh, even when basket, even if we

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Speaker 1: don't make it to that, everyone has the dream to

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Speaker 1: make it to the NBA. And even if that's not

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Speaker 1: possible that you can still have a productive life and

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Speaker 1: to be able to put food on your on your

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Speaker 1: table and close on your your family's back. Coach. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's also fascinating to read this book now in one

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Speaker 1: amid you know, a much more activist society that we're

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Speaker 1: living in, you know, especially on the part of both

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Speaker 1: college and especially professional basketball players. But that was not

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Speaker 1: the case. Uh. He was a renegade in many in

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Speaker 1: many ways. What do you make of this, this era

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Speaker 1: now of more active players, more active coaches, and what

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Speaker 1: responsibility do you feel along those lines, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: as we're sitting here towards the end of Black History Month.

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Speaker 1: I think it's great, you know, all the all the

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Speaker 1: things that he fought for in his lifetime and everyone

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Speaker 1: now sees that they have platform to fight for social injustice,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think that it's great that these players,

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Speaker 1: the guys, not only the guys in the NBA, but

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Speaker 1: he's also in college. Everyone is using their platform, you know,

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Speaker 1: to fight and speak speak up about all the different

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Speaker 1: injustices that's going on in society. How much of Mike Jarvis,

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Speaker 1: your high school coach, how much of John Thompson, your

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Speaker 1: college coach is in you Patrick Helling, the head coach

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Speaker 1: at Georgetown University. Right now, I think all of them.

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Speaker 1: You know, I still talked to Coach Jovis. He still

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Speaker 1: called me. We still have conversations. You know. Unfortunately Coach

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Speaker 1: Downson is not here. But you know it's every day

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Speaker 1: that we have practice. You know, he used to always

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Speaker 1: come into this coming to the gym through the side door,

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Speaker 1: and you know there's been many times, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for him or waiting for him to come through

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Speaker 1: that side door, cursing me out and talking smack um.

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Speaker 1: But both of them are They're both great teachers. They're

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Speaker 1: both of influence and influenced my life of my career

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Speaker 1: in a positive way. Uh. And you know, Coach Thompson

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Speaker 1: has definitely missing Coach Jovis. We still, like I said, uh,

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Speaker 1: stay in touch. Coach. Tell us about just shifting to

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Speaker 1: the NBA for for a second. You know, both as

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Speaker 1: a player and then as as someone who was on

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Speaker 1: multiple coaching staff. I mean, you had a front row

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Speaker 1: seat to just the explosion of the NBA as a

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Speaker 1: massive business, a massive global business. What what do you

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Speaker 1: attribute that to? What what made basketball, pro basketball especially

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Speaker 1: so popular. Even if you think about the last ten

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Speaker 1: to fifteen years. You know, you have guys like Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan's you know who became world wide figures, Magic Johnson,

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Speaker 1: Larry Bird started it, No Dr J and those guys also.

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Speaker 1: But then you know the Dream Team, Uh, you know, we,

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Speaker 1: we think also helped to grow the game of basketball,

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Speaker 1: make it a national international game. You know, the way

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Speaker 1: that we carried ourselves in the ninety two Dream Team,

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Speaker 1: the way that we went out there and kick bus

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Speaker 1: and took me games. We were the Seals, we were

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Speaker 1: the Marines, we evolved the armed forces that went back

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Speaker 1: there and brought back home to goal. I think all

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Speaker 1: of those things helped to grow the game of basketball

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Speaker 1: and make it as popular as as as it has become.

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Speaker 1: And then all the great individual players and in teams.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have Michael and his bolt, Uh, you

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Speaker 1: have step In in the Warriors, you have k d

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Speaker 1: and and when he joined the Warriors, and and now

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Speaker 1: he's in Brooklyn. All those great players also helped to

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Speaker 1: fuel grow with the game and keep it in the spotlight.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you can't think anything away from Lebron

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Speaker 1: what he's done you know, he's had a great run

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Speaker 1: in terms of you know, being in the finals for

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Speaker 1: all those back to back years and then you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, bringing one back to Cleveland, winning one and

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Speaker 1: one or two in Miami and then one with the Lakers. Patrick,

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Speaker 1: I donia sense. You were a freshman in high school

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Speaker 1: and you always shuned away from the spotlight. Um, you

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Speaker 1: just let your actions speak for themselves. Same thing with

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Speaker 1: Georgetown in the NBA. But now you've come out and

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Speaker 1: you've endorsed Ray McGuire is a mayoral candidate in New

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Speaker 1: York City. Is this a sudden transformation in your personality

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Speaker 1: or is it something like that's always been underneath the

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Speaker 1: surface with you. Well, I mean it's raised a great guy.

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Speaker 1: I've been known him for a lot of years, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think it'd be a great mayor.

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Speaker 1: You know, every every you know, that's part of life.

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Speaker 1: You have to grow, and I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm growing. I'm still learning and just like I keep

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Speaker 1: telling my players, you have to use your platform and

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Speaker 1: speak up for things that you believe in. And I

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Speaker 1: think that met Ray would be a great brand mayor,

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Speaker 1: a great person. He's a great person and a great fit,

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Speaker 1: and I think he'll be be able to help run

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Speaker 1: New York and get it back to where it needs

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Speaker 1: to be. Coach, I know that one of the issues

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Speaker 1: that's important to you and certainly was important to Coach

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Speaker 1: Thompson was diversity in the head coaching rankings, and you

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Speaker 1: know he was among a small handful of black head coaches. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: you are also among us a relatively small handful of

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Speaker 1: black coaches, and only seven in the n b A

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Speaker 1: of the thirty teams are coached by men of color.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that? What needs to happen

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Speaker 1: to to make this a more diverse sort of top

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Speaker 1: tier of coaching. Well, you know the NBA, they you

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Speaker 1: have to give them credit there, they were a lot

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Speaker 1: they were ahead of football in that manner. But we

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Speaker 1: have a lot more diversity in in uh in basketball

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Speaker 1: than in football. I think that you know, all the

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Speaker 1: people who were paved the way like Coach Thompson, h

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Speaker 1: Coach Cheney, John McClinton, all those guys that have fought

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Speaker 1: foot equality and not only college but also in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great thing. And then all the

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Speaker 1: people who are fighting for the same equality in football.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, they're they're doing their best to

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Speaker 1: try to level the playing field, but they have a

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Speaker 1: much further way to go than say basketball, and then

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Speaker 1: they still needs to be a lot more. But especially

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Speaker 1: the Big East. You know, the Big East is ahead

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Speaker 1: of his time in my opinion, because five of the

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Speaker 1: eleven coaches are African Americans, and you know, uh that

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Speaker 1: that that needs to grow in all the other on

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Speaker 1: all the other conferences. Patrick, I want to go back

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Speaker 1: to Jason's question about social justice. Do you have some

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Speaker 1: active members in social justice on your team? Do you

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Speaker 1: encourage it? Is it something that you bring to their

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Speaker 1: attention or they bring to your attention during the course

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Speaker 1: of the season. Of course I bring it to the

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Speaker 1: attention everything that we that I see that's going on

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Speaker 1: in the in the world. I tried to bring to

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Speaker 1: their attention. Try to talk to him about it, talk

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Speaker 1: to them about using their platform. And you know that's

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Speaker 1: another thing when you tell about Coach Thompson. Coach Thompson

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Speaker 1: as as all the fights that we that we're fighting now,

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Speaker 1: he is he was in the forefront of it. So

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Speaker 1: you know, and I gotta I have to take my

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Speaker 1: hat off to Georgetown. You know when we when my

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Speaker 1: team talked about, you know, they wanted to kneel uh

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Speaker 1: during the national anthem. And I heard the story the

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Speaker 1: other day. I forgot what what outlet it was in

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Speaker 1: about our school in Virginia where they wanted to do

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Speaker 1: the same thing, and at first as the university said yes,

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Speaker 1: but then because their boosters uh didn't like it, they

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Speaker 1: renicked and started saying no, and then they suspended the

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Speaker 1: black players on the team because they still kneeled. And

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Speaker 1: I think that all the things that coach Thompson and

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Speaker 1: fought for and and Georgetown has given gave him the

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Speaker 1: freedom to be able to do it, and they're still

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Speaker 1: giving me the freedom to to be able to to

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Speaker 1: show or stand up for what I believe. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I applause George down for that. You know, I know

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Speaker 1: that there's a lot of other places where you know,

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Speaker 1: that's not the case, being that school and they're you know,

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Speaker 1: they're not like that school in Virginia. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I keep talking to my guys about standing up for

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Speaker 1: what you believe in um, you are that your generation

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Speaker 1: is the generation that's gonna that's gonna make a change

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Speaker 1: in this world. So coach on that exact point about

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Speaker 1: your players and sort of tying it to empowerment but

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Speaker 1: also their aspirations, you know, as as businessmen. Uh in

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Speaker 1: many ways. You know, Coach Thompson talked about, you know,

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Speaker 1: making more money sitting down than than standing up. I

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Speaker 1: know he told you guys that a lot over the years.

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Speaker 1: Are you seeing players come in more fully formed in

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Speaker 1: terms of their own brands and their own businesses as

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Speaker 1: they arrive on campus there? I mean, not once they arrive.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them they're only seventeen eighteen year old kids.

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Speaker 1: I think they come in you know wide I and

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Speaker 1: and she tailed and you know it's all about you know,

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Speaker 1: us and their parents to to raise them and and

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Speaker 1: encourage them and give them the ability to grow. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's what that's what, you know. Like he asked me

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Speaker 1: the question about when I was younger, you know, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't speak out on the things. Well, you know, I've grown,

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Speaker 1: I've matured, and you know, I feel you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: I feel comfortable with speaking about it. Now. We'll cut

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Speaker 1: you and you've been very generous with your time. We

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Goyas and the rest of the season

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Speaker 1: and hope to talk to you again before too long.

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Speaker 1: All right, thank you ever gooing so Lynch, you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously a huge treat for me to catch up with

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Speaker 1: Patrick Ewing. You know I watched him as a kid,

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Speaker 1: then went to Georgetown and saw that legacy in full force.

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Speaker 1: He stands above literally and figuratively, so much of that program.

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Speaker 1: He changed college basketball, He changed Georgetown. I can tell

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Speaker 1: you that definitively, uh, firsthand, he's got a big job

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Speaker 1: though those are big shoes to fill Cotch Thompson's they are.

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Speaker 1: And like you, I watched him as a high school athlete.

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Speaker 1: I had the fortune of refereeing high school basketball and

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Speaker 1: he played. I did his last high school game as

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Speaker 1: a uh we mentioned in high school when he won

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Speaker 1: the state championship, and was really proud of him down

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Speaker 1: to Georgetown, what he did, how he handled himself personally

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Speaker 1: and professionally. And you know, you talked about the recruiting

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Speaker 1: um being not being able to go face to face

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Speaker 1: with many of the people that you're you're bringing in,

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Speaker 1: But when you have a face like Patrick Ewing that

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Speaker 1: is so recognizable. Forty five years uh, thirty five years

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Speaker 1: after he played at Georgetown, that helps. And when you

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Speaker 1: have a program like Georgetown, that helps when you pick

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Speaker 1: up the phone or you're doing a zoom call with

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Speaker 1: a recruit. Yeah, absolutely, uh. And it's still a tough

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Speaker 1: job because you know, Georgetown and I say this obviously

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Speaker 1: as a fan, has not been able to you know,

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Speaker 1: ever achieve that level of glory. You know, that was

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Speaker 1: the last, the last and only at national championship was

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Speaker 1: the one one by Patrick Ewing under coach Thompson. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of promise for this program and a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention being paid to Patrick Ewing and and

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Speaker 1: it was a good chance also, I think for both

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Speaker 1: of us to revisit that book him as a shadow,

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Speaker 1: because I can't recommend it highly enough. I also, you know,

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Speaker 1: really recommend you go back shameless plug here and listen

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Speaker 1: to the conversation we had with Jesse Washington, because I

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Speaker 1: think if you want to understand that program. Obviously Coach

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Speaker 1: Ewing uh told us a lot about it, but the

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Speaker 1: history of it, the legacy of it are are very

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Speaker 1: rich and very important. I think none no time more

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Speaker 1: so than here. And the feeling obviously was mutual between

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Speaker 1: John Thompson and Patrick Ewing to this day, he actually

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Speaker 1: coaches his players the same way John Thompson coached him

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Speaker 1: and his players when he was at the playing for

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Speaker 1: the coach back in the mid nineteen eighties. His most

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Speaker 1: important thing is not wins and losses, but the life lessons.

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Speaker 1: And I thought it was ice that he brought up

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Speaker 1: the deflated basketball um uh notaphour, which was, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: something John Thompson had in his office and what it

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Speaker 1: symbolizes though that when you're playing days are over, you've

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Speaker 1: got to go make a living for yourself and your family,

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Speaker 1: and there's there's more important things in the world than

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Speaker 1: forty minutes of basketball three nights a week. Well, and

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Speaker 1: that whole notion that you know, John Thompson talks about

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Speaker 1: that that clearly Patrick Ewing h imparts on his players

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Speaker 1: as well, which is you make more money sitting down

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Speaker 1: than standing up, you know, I mean, And that's what

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Speaker 1: he's trying to and part of them I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the most poignant things as I think about it,

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Speaker 1: that he said was that you know, he's in that

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Speaker 1: same gym and that door that that John Thompson used

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Speaker 1: to amble through into practice and let him have it,

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, he looks at that door sometimes

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Speaker 1: just expecting he's going to walk through. So anyway, really

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Speaker 1: really really good to catch up with him and listen.

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Speaker 1: Another rebuilding year for the Hoyas. But hope springs eternal

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Speaker 1: for Georgetown well as as we speak right here there

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Speaker 1: ten and eleven, and so who knows, any think could

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Speaker 1: happen one more thing before we before we wrap this

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Speaker 1: up to take away. We've all known Patrick pretty much

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Speaker 1: an introvert most of his life. But but you know,

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Speaker 1: coming out and endorsing Ray McGuire for mayor of New

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Speaker 1: York City, I thought was something that was really not

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Speaker 1: the Patrick ewing that I know, and just sort of

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Speaker 1: as a sign of his maturity in his growth. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's fifty eight years old, but you know, it's something

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Speaker 1: a part of Patrick I hadn't seen since I knew

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Speaker 1: him back as a freshman in high school. Well, and look,

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Speaker 1: he grew up. I mean that it is well documented

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Speaker 1: Hoya paranoia, you know, I mean, that was the that

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Speaker 1: was the Thompson way. He was very protective of his

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Speaker 1: players and candidly and this comes through in the book

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Speaker 1: as well, very very protective of Patrick in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. And I think we're reminded when we go

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Speaker 1: back and think about what Patrick Ewing endured as as

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Speaker 1: a high school athlete, as a college athlete. You know

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Speaker 1: things that you know, we look back on, uh, that

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Speaker 1: are just abhorrent behavior, and in terms of the way

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Speaker 1: he was treated just you know, unbelievably, you know, racist

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Speaker 1: things said to him and about him. So you can

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Speaker 1: understand why, you know, he was conditioned to be the

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Speaker 1: way that that he was, and so seeing him step

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Speaker 1: out and and endorse someone politically, as you say, uh,

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Speaker 1: sort of shows both maturity and and and his ability

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Speaker 1: to to transcend some some pretty terrible things. Well, I

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Speaker 1: witnessed it firsthand. I refereated his last high school basketball game,

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Speaker 1: the state championship in Massachusetts, and by that time he

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Speaker 1: had already committed to Georgetown, and it was revealed that

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Speaker 1: he was dyslexic, and the students for the other team

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Speaker 1: were chanting, you can't read, you can't read. He came

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Speaker 1: down with a tomahawk dunk and destroyed about two guys

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Speaker 1: that were standing in his path, and as he jogged

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Speaker 1: by the student section, he pointed at the school board.

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Speaker 1: He says, I can read that, boys, and he just

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Speaker 1: kept jogging down the court and I gotta whistle in

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Speaker 1: my mouth and I'm starting I'm actually laughing. Good for him,

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Speaker 1: for him. Yeah, anyway, a fascinating character, iconic in his

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Speaker 1: own right, and it takes an icon to replace an

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Speaker 1: icon in many ways. So best of Lec to Patrick.

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Speaker 1: You bet all right. Well, this is the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports podcast on Mike Lynch along with Jason Kelly,

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Speaker 1: and we're here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday

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Speaker 1: exploring the world of money in sports. Tris again. At

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Speaker 1: the end of the week, Michael bar He will be back,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to be joined by a very special guest, indeed,

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Speaker 1: Randy Levine, president of the New York Yankees. We are

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Speaker 1: not that far from opening day. We're gonna have some

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Speaker 1: fans in the stands. So not just bar is back Baseball.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be back. Can't wait for Levine and bar

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Speaker 1: What a day it's gonna be. You're listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business with Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world and

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Speaker 1: online wherever you get your podcasts.