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Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia pictures

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Speaker 1: and iHeart podcasts. So you see a movement and a

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Speaker 1: growing interest in the consciousness studies, near death experiences, and

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Speaker 1: even psychedelic research as signs of conversation beginning to shift.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that so it is happening? You think?

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Speaker 2: I think that's the biggest lesson from NDAs and from

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Speaker 2: the science of consciousness, that we have shared meaning and

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Speaker 2: purpose and also a shared connection and come to realize

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Speaker 2: that all that emerges in the physical world is ultimately

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Speaker 2: determined by our willful interaction.

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Speaker 1: With the universe. Welcome back to Alive Again. I'm your

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Speaker 1: host Dan Bush. Today I'm honored to be joined by

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Speaker 1: someone whose story and work offers a quantum leap into

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Speaker 1: the way many of us think about consciousness in what

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Speaker 1: lies beyond this life. Doctor Evan Alexander is a renowned

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Speaker 1: academic neurosurgeon who spent over twenty five years teaching and

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Speaker 1: practicing at some of the most prestigious medical institutions in

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Speaker 1: the world, including Harvard Medical School. For most of his career,

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Speaker 1: he had a conventional materialist view of the mind and

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Speaker 1: brain until his own near death experience and remarkable recovery

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Speaker 1: challenged everything he once believed about the nature of reality.

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Speaker 1: His journey from the world of materialist science to a

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Speaker 1: deeper understanding of consciousness has become a beacon for anyone

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Speaker 1: seeking to understand what it truly means to awaken, to heal,

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Speaker 1: and to come fully alive again. Doctor Alexander's best selling

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Speaker 1: book Proof of Heaven, a neurosurgeon's journey into the Afterlife,

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Speaker 1: became a global phenomenon, offering millions of readers a deeply

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Speaker 1: personal and scientifically informed glimpse into the possibilities beyond death.

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Speaker 1: He has since authored several more works, including The Map

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Speaker 1: of Heaven and Living in a Mindful Universe, bridging neuroscience, spirituality,

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Speaker 1: and philosophy in a way few others can. Today, we'll

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Speaker 1: explore not just doctor Alexander's extraordinary journey, but the transformation

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Speaker 1: it's sparked, a transformation of understanding of purpose, of heart

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Speaker 1: and mind. We'll talk about the mind's role in shaping reality,

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Speaker 1: the illusion of separation, how profound experiences, whether through trauma, loss,

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Speaker 1: or near death, can transform us, and also about the

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Speaker 1: powerful transformation that can happen when we step beyond our

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Speaker 1: fear and into a larger view of existence. What drew

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Speaker 1: me to doctor Alexander wasn't just his near death experience,

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Speaker 1: although that's extremely powerful on its own. It's the fact

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Speaker 1: that he has since become one of the leading voices

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Speaker 1: in a growing movement to reimagine the relationship between consciousness

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Speaker 1: and reality through science, philosophy, and personal experience. I've been

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Speaker 1: searching for voices that are willing to challenge this sort

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Speaker 1: of materialist view of consciousness, which is the idea that

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Speaker 1: our awareness is nothing more than brain activity. Doctor Alexander's

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Speaker 1: story and research offer a radically different perspective that consciousness

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Speaker 1: is not produced by the brain, but is in fact universal,

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Speaker 1: something that we all have access to and can tap into.

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Speaker 1: As someone who's always asking questions about the mysteries of

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Speaker 1: life and death, I was inspired that his message actually

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Speaker 1: resonates so deeply with my own beliefs that our sense

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Speaker 1: of separation is an illusion created by an ego mind,

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Speaker 1: and that beneath it all is something profoundly unifying, something loving.

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Speaker 1: So while this episode focuses on doctor Alexander's specific experience

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Speaker 1: and viewpoint, I also hope that Alive again will serve

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Speaker 1: as a space to explore many different perspectives. But doctor

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Speaker 1: Alexander does draw on more than his own experience of

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Speaker 1: his end, and he's at the forefront of this new

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Speaker 1: research that's not dismissive of these ideas. In talking to him,

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Speaker 1: I was really happy that his experience has led him

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Speaker 1: to an inspiring and hopeful message about the true nature

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Speaker 1: of reality as one that reflects love and compassion. I mean,

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Speaker 1: our show is all about where human experience brushes up

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Speaker 1: against mystery and how those intersections transform us. So it

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Speaker 1: is a true privilege to have doctor Alexander with us

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Speaker 1: to share his journey and his insights. It really is

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Speaker 1: a true privilege to have you, doctor Alexander, on our show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Well, Dan, it's a real pleasure to be with you today.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate your getting this out to the world, and

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Speaker 2: I can tell you're very knowledgeable about this and have

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Speaker 2: the right kind of interests. I mean, this is the

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Speaker 2: kind of interview I love doing.

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Speaker 1: If you could take us back to the beginning of

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Speaker 1: your near death experience and how did it begin to

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Speaker 1: transform your understanding of not just life and death. But

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in your shift in yourself and your sense

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Speaker 1: of purpose. You have described your coma and your near

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Speaker 1: death experience as more real than anything you experienced in

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Speaker 1: waking life, and so I'm extremely curious about how this

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Speaker 1: may have shifted your sense of self and your purpose

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Speaker 1: once you came back, and more importantly, what parts of

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Speaker 1: yourself would you say that you left behind? Like what

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Speaker 1: I often ask people what did you lose and what

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Speaker 1: did you gain from this experience? So maybe maybe we

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Speaker 1: can start with that.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, those are excellent questions. I think it's

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Speaker 2: important to point out that when all this happened to

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Speaker 2: me back in two thousand and eight, which is when

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Speaker 2: I went to a week long coma due to meningitis,

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Speaker 2: I was basically, you know, a reductive materialist neurosurgeon. I'd

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Speaker 2: spent fifteen years teaching at Harvard Medical School teaching neurosurgery.

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Speaker 2: Thought I had some understanding of brain, mind, and consciousness.

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Speaker 2: Now it's also important to point out that a deep

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Speaker 2: part of the background of my story is that I

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Speaker 2: was adopted. My birth mother was sixteen years old, unwed,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, I demonstrated what's called failure to thrive

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Speaker 2: as an infant and was hospitalized at age eleven days.

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Speaker 2: And I think part of that may have been due

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Speaker 2: to my kind of sensing the great discord at home.

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Speaker 2: I said, my birth mother unmarried, her her father was

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Speaker 2: often unemployed. You know, he'd had trouble with alcohol, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So there were many issues at home. And so I

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Speaker 2: was born into a home that was somewhat troubled. And

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Speaker 2: then Social services took me away when I was eleven

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Speaker 2: days old, but my birth mother had to sign the

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Speaker 2: release papers and she didn't do that. She didn't want

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Speaker 2: to let me go, and so that put me in

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Speaker 2: kind of purgatory for four months in a baby dorm.

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Speaker 2: I'm just putting that out there. That's the starting point

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Speaker 2: of my story, and it is important because as much

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Speaker 2: as my adoptive father, who was a globally renowned neurosurgeon,

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Speaker 2: would certainly know about things like memory, he used to

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Speaker 2: reassure me there's no way I could remember anything that

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Speaker 2: happened back when I was that age. And I know

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Speaker 2: now that he was wrong. That I had a deep,

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Speaker 2: kind of smoke looking crater memory, and it was so existential.

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Speaker 2: It had to do with whether or not I even

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Speaker 2: deserved to exist my own birth mother left me behind,

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Speaker 2: and you find that animals left behind often go on

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Speaker 2: a hunger strike, you know, left by their mother, and

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Speaker 2: so that's what was going on. So early on I

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Speaker 2: had that kind of traumatic event that led to what

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Speaker 2: I believe were some subconscious wounds that were greatly healed

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Speaker 2: through my NDE. And so when I tell the story,

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Speaker 2: think of it in that context as an adoptee who's

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Speaker 2: trying to come to some kind of sense of his

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Speaker 2: reason for being in the universe. But suffice it to

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Speaker 2: say that in November tenth, two thousand and eight, when

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Speaker 2: I went into Comba very suddenly in the early hours

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Speaker 2: of that morning, I've had basically towed the line as

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Speaker 2: a materialist or physicalist neuro scientist by believing the brain

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Speaker 2: creates consciousness. That was the fun bent falsehood that was

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Speaker 2: going to now be exposed in my journey, because my

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Speaker 2: journey could not have happened according to the tenets of

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Speaker 2: modern neuroscience. It couldn't have happened, and yet it did happen.

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Speaker 2: And that, of course, to me, has been incredibly powerful

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Speaker 2: incentive to get to a deeper understanding of the nature

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Speaker 2: reality because trying to pretend that my old philosophical system

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Speaker 2: of materialism could explain it didn't work at all, and

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Speaker 2: that has to do with the medical details of the case.

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Speaker 2: So to kind of briefly go into the important features

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Speaker 2: of my journey, first of all, I'll point out that

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Speaker 2: I was in a state of amnesia. That's very unusual

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Speaker 2: be completely amnesic. I had no knowledge of Eben Alexander's life,

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Speaker 2: of humans, of this universe. It really was an empty slate. Now,

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Speaker 2: when I first came back to this world and my

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Speaker 2: science knowledge was not yet returned. It took about two

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Speaker 2: months post coma for a lot of that to come back.

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Speaker 2: But when I first came back and I tried to

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Speaker 2: tell my doctors about my spiritual experience, which I'll get

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Speaker 2: to in a minute, they would just say, well, your

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Speaker 2: brain was soaking in pus, we can't even believe you're

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Speaker 2: coming back to us. But you can forget about it,

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Speaker 2: because a dying brain plays all kinds of tricks. So

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh, well, the doctors say that that's what

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Speaker 2: dying brains do. I was shocked by the ultra reality

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Speaker 2: of the experience. But I remember even telling my older

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Speaker 2: son eb and fourth, who was majoring in neuroscience in college.

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Speaker 2: When he came home two days after I got out

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Speaker 2: of the hospital, I told him it was way too

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Speaker 2: real to be real. That was kind of the lesson

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Speaker 2: I'd gotten for my doctors, that that striking kind of

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Speaker 2: alter reality of it was due to that. But I

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Speaker 2: had only just begun investigating my own medical records, which

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Speaker 2: would completely defy that thinking. If the brain and the

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Speaker 2: neocortex played the role in consciousness that we normally think of,

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Speaker 2: then there was no way I could have had such

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Speaker 2: an experience given the devastation to my brain. And that

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Speaker 2: is all elucidated not just in my medical facts presented

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Speaker 2: in the book Proof of Heaven, but also in a

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Speaker 2: medical case report on my medical records that came out

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Speaker 2: September twenty eighteen in the Journal of Nervous.

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Speaker 1: And Mental Disease.

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Speaker 2: And anyway, the important thing is that journal article made

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Speaker 2: it very clear that my brain was way too damaged

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Speaker 2: to allow any kind of enhancement of activity. If anything,

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Speaker 2: you would expect great diminution in that brain's ability to

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Speaker 2: do anything because the entire neocortex was involved. And that's

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Speaker 2: why my case is so important to the neuroscience community.

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Speaker 2: And they take it quite seriously. Many people who study

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Speaker 2: consciousness pay big attention to this because it completely defies

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Speaker 2: those materialist models, and they basically become impossible of hopeless

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Speaker 2: arguments to defy my experience. And then, of course you

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Speaker 2: have my recovery. And that another challenge from the scientific

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Speaker 2: peerview editors of that journal was, how do you explain

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Speaker 2: this case? It's unprecedented in the medical literature to have

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Speaker 2: somebody that ill from bacterial innenguin cephalie. I is in

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Speaker 2: coma for a week, with all the medical parameters of

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Speaker 2: my case, the neurologic exams, etc. How could that all

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Speaker 2: happen and then have this complete recovery? And the doctors

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Speaker 2: who investigated the case said, it's because he had an NDE.

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Speaker 2: That's why he had this miraculous recovery. And so science

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Speaker 2: is now paying attention to spiritual encounters as profound explanations

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Speaker 2: for recovery that has no other explanation. So given that preamble,

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Speaker 2: I'll now take you briefly through what I went through,

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Speaker 2: starting what I call the earthworm's eye view, a primitive course,

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Speaker 2: kind of unresponsive realm, like being a dirty jello of

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Speaker 2: you know, I remember roots or blood vessels. I had

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Speaker 2: all kinds of sensory information coming into me, but I

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Speaker 2: never had any body awareness during any part of the journey,

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Speaker 2: and that I think is important. Luckily, I was rescued

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Speaker 2: from that kind of subtraining existence by a slowly spinning

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Speaker 2: white light that game packaged with a perfect musical melody,

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Speaker 2: and that open up like a rip in the fabric

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Speaker 2: of that ugly earthworm eye view realm that I'd first

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Speaker 2: started in, and led me up into this ultra real,

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Speaker 2: kind of sharp crisp reality that had many earth like

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Speaker 2: features but also many spiritual features. And for example, there

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Speaker 2: was this lovely meadows surrounded by a forest, sparkling waterfalls

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Speaker 2: into crystal blue pools. There were thousands of beings dancing

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Speaker 2: in this meadow, lots of joy and merriment, and children

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Speaker 2: playing dogs, jumping, incredible festivities, all being fueled because up

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Speaker 2: above the spiritual elements were these swooping orbs of angelic

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Speaker 2: choirs that were emanating chants and anthems hymns that would

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Speaker 2: just thunder through my awareness. I mean, it was a

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Speaker 2: scene of amazing beauty. In many ways. I describe it

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Speaker 2: as kind of Plato's world. Of ideals, kind of a

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Speaker 2: world of perfection that serves as a guidance as a

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Speaker 2: template for our kind of spiritual growth. And that's kind

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Speaker 2: of the way I sensed it as I entered it. It

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Speaker 2: also seemed to be very familiar. And I know thousands

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Speaker 2: of people wrote me after reading Proof of Heaven or

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Speaker 2: hearing my talks and said that somehow my words and

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Speaker 2: my depiction of the story reminded memories in them, very

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Speaker 2: deep and subconscious memories brought to the surface about their

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Speaker 2: own kind of life experiences between lives and past lives,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. So a lot of people resonated with what

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Speaker 2: I was saying in describing that now in this beautiful

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Speaker 2: gateway valley, I was witnessing it because I was a

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Speaker 2: speck of awareness on a butterfly wing, and there were

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Speaker 2: millions of other butterflies looping and spiraling in vast formations.

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Speaker 2: Some people make the mistake of thinking, oh, these are

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Speaker 2: symbolic of something. No butterflies, hummingbirds, owls. There are many

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Speaker 2: animals that are kind of totems for the spiritual realm

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Speaker 2: and play a big role in our human interpretation of

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Speaker 2: all that. And this is not something you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of making up now whether they were actually butterflies

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Speaker 2: or flying carpets, I don't know. It was such a magical,

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Speaker 2: powered altra reality that the words kind of pale in

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Speaker 2: trying to describe it all. But the best description I

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Speaker 2: could have was that it was like these intelligent butterflies,

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Speaker 2: and that's what we were flying around on. And the

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Speaker 2: best part was I wasn't alone on that butterfly wing.

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Speaker 2: There was a beautiful young woman and she had sparkling

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Speaker 2: blue eyes, high cheekbones, my forehead, broad smile. She never

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Speaker 2: said a word to me, she never had to. But

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Speaker 2: her telepathic message to me, delivered as our minds melded

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Speaker 2: together in that beautiful environment, was the message was you

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Speaker 2: were deeply loved and cherished forever. You have nothing to fear.

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Speaker 2: You're richly cared for. And I cannot tell you how

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Speaker 2: comforting that message was at that time. And I remember

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Speaker 2: sensing all of four dimensional space time, kind of this

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Speaker 2: lower level beneath us, but then the spiritual realm, where

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Speaker 2: there's something operative called deep time. This is a very

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Speaker 2: important concept. When you hear people talk about life reviews,

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Speaker 2: they often say that you relive the events and that

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Speaker 2: they're more real than when they were initially lived, and

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Speaker 2: owing that you relive them from the perspective of everybody involved.

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Speaker 2: So it's a very kind of cosmic consciousness view of

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Speaker 2: what happens during a life review. And the life review

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Speaker 2: is really kind of the Golden rule treat others as

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Speaker 2: you would like to be treated, written into the fabric

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Speaker 2: of the universe. And that's exactly so.

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Speaker 1: You're experiencing your life reviews. You're experiencing these events not

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Speaker 1: just from a singular perspective, but you're experiing them from

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Speaker 1: multiple participant perspectives, right exactly.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there was an article by Bruce Grayson, a

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Speaker 2: skeptical psychiatrist who studied in these for the last forty

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Speaker 2: five years. It came out in the Journal of Near

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Speaker 2: Death Studies in the fall of twenty twenty one, and

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Speaker 2: it made it clear that something like three quarters of

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Speaker 2: people believed that reported their life review. And this was

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Speaker 2: in his reported involved seven hundred life reviews. There's six

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Speaker 2: ninety eight, seven hundred or so life reviews, right, and

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Speaker 2: the interesting thing is that three quarters of them said

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Speaker 2: it was from the perspective of everybody involved, you know,

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Speaker 2: as I often say, if you heard another, you're hurting yourself.

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Speaker 2: The golden rule treat others as you would like to

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Speaker 2: be treated, is right there with this incredible kind of

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Speaker 2: commonality of reports. Now, I couldn't have an Eben Alexander

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Speaker 2: life review because of the amnesia, but I saw life

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Speaker 2: reviews and reincarnation in these very grand visions that happened

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Speaker 2: at the next stage of the journey. Just as kind

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Speaker 2: of that musical melody had given me a light portal

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Speaker 2: up from the earthworm's I view into the Gateway valley, likewise,

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Speaker 2: a musical portal was about to expand again, and that

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Speaker 2: was one that was due to the angelic choirs above

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Speaker 2: in this Gateway valley, and so all of that deep time,

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Speaker 2: of that whole realm of time listeners, I would say,

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Speaker 2: they're not stuck in Earth time. That's why some of

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Speaker 2: these experiences are so hard to explain, and yet they

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Speaker 2: make so much more sense when you just acknowledge that

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Speaker 2: those are real effects. They're not vague memories of events.

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Speaker 2: It's a reliving. It's from all perspectives. It's kind of

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Speaker 2: shows us we're sharing the dream of the one buy,

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Speaker 2: that we're all in that together.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because the point of like one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I set out to do a live again and

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Speaker 1: to create the show, it wasn't for any sort of

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Speaker 1: I wasn't looking for any like, you know, particular spiritual bent,

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't looking for any specific, scientific, deterministic look

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Speaker 1: at near death experiences. I was simply wanting to hear

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Speaker 1: the perspectives of the people who had gone through them.

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Speaker 1: And it has kind of developed since then into more

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Speaker 1: generally stories about human fragility and trauma and resilience and forgiveness,

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Speaker 1: and in so doing, I've really leaned into an understanding

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Speaker 1: of the mission of our show, which is to unify right,

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Speaker 1: and that we tend to not get into something a

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Speaker 1: lot of the people were affected by different politics that

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Speaker 1: affected their situation. We don't get too much into that

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Speaker 1: because I don't I want everybody to understand that there's

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Speaker 1: a shared human condition. We're all We're all going to die,

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Speaker 1: everyone we know on this planet, everyone that has ever existed,

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Speaker 1: you know, passes on. And so the point of our

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Speaker 1: show is to is to help people to hear stories

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Speaker 1: that unify us and give people a sense so that

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Speaker 1: they're maybe not as scared.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think that that's really the beautiful lesson

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Speaker 2: that comes from all this. And when you consider that

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Speaker 2: this is not about any kind of religious kind of

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Speaker 2: posturing or ideologies, but more just about what happens to

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Speaker 2: people in the modern era. What do people report, and

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Speaker 2: how does that inform us about what we should expect

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Speaker 2: to happen when our own bodies coming to an end.

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Speaker 2: And what I will tell you is the evidence for

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Speaker 2: the afterlife is overwhelming. I should probably finish off the

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Speaker 2: little bits I was going to say about my plea

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Speaker 2: story and then we can get into all that. So

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to finish by saying that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I ascended to this higher level. I remember seeing all

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Speaker 2: of the material realm collapsing down, all of that deep time,

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Speaker 2: that spiritual realm with its kind of whole different ordering

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Speaker 2: and causality and apparent connections across the time, all of

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Speaker 2: that collapsing down until I entered what I call the

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Speaker 2: core now. The core was an infinite, inky blackness. I

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Speaker 2: often describe it as a dazzling darkness. It was a

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Speaker 2: complete resolution of all paradox. You know, we live in

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Speaker 2: a world where everything is in kind of a spectrum

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Speaker 2: of activity. You have darkness, light, you have good, evil, masculine, feminine,

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Speaker 2: all these different kind of ranges of possibility, and yet

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Speaker 2: in that realm, what happens is everything kind of coalesces

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Speaker 2: into that oneness.

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Speaker 1: And for me, the core.

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Speaker 2: Realm was a realm of kind of coming into oneness

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Speaker 2: with that pure source of consciousness, that God force that's

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Speaker 2: at the source of all of our conscious awareness, and

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Speaker 2: recognizing I was never separate from that at all, I

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Speaker 2: could pool myself into thinking I was separate, but that

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Speaker 2: was kind of my ego mind and some of the

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Speaker 2: more human aspects kind of losing track of this deeper

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Speaker 2: connection with kind of cosmic source. And that also has

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Speaker 2: to do with causality. We are kind of prime movers

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Speaker 2: in determining the direction that our life will take, and

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Speaker 2: it's unfolding and that's very important.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: In fact, the materialist side that I had worshiped before

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Speaker 2: my coma materialist or physical scientists will scoff at you

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Speaker 2: for even claiming to have free will, because they think

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Speaker 2: all just chemical reactions, electron fluxes in the brain, giving

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Speaker 2: an illusion of awareness, an illusion of willful interaction with

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Speaker 2: the universe. But that they've got it completely wrong. Every

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Speaker 2: bit of this is about kind of a soulful, a

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Speaker 2: purposeful reflection, and that indicates where mind over matic can

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Speaker 2: really occur. And we can get into that a little

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Speaker 2: bit later because I've got much more about it, but

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Speaker 2: just to kind of finish off my journey going into

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Speaker 2: the core, I had two visions on two separate passages

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Speaker 2: because I would cycle through these levels multiple times, and

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Speaker 2: the later one I think is more important. That's the

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Speaker 2: one I'll discuss. It was called the Indra's Net vision.

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Speaker 2: And in that vision, I saw our lives as these

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Speaker 2: interwoven threads in this beautiful, silvery, golden tapestry leading to

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Speaker 2: a golden center. And what I recognized there was the

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Speaker 2: threads represented in our lifetimes over multiple incarnations, as higher

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Speaker 2: souls that we are, indeed eternal souls that are contributing

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Speaker 2: to this growth of consciousness, this evolution and transformation of

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Speaker 2: the mind of the universe itself, that godmind. It's growing,

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Speaker 2: it's learning, it's teaching, and that's what we are all

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Speaker 2: part of. And to see all that. So not only

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Speaker 2: did I see the life reviews as a course correction,

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Speaker 2: but also the process of reincarnation is one where we

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Speaker 2: move closer to this, and I didn't realize that. You know,

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Speaker 2: there was a huge scientific basis for reincarnation before my coma.

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Speaker 2: I only did that homework afterwards. But for example, at

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Speaker 2: the University of Virginia, they've studied more than twenty five

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Speaker 2: hundred cases of pass like memories and children suggestive reincarnation

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Speaker 2: over the last six and a half decades, and over

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Speaker 2: those twenty five hundred, more than seventeen hundred or what

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Speaker 2: they call solve that is, they actually found the person

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Speaker 2: who lived before. But they also will point out to you,

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Speaker 2: doctors Ian Stevenson, Jim Tucker, who did all that work,

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Speaker 2: that you must harvest those memories before age six or

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Speaker 2: seven because their natural processes in all of us that

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Speaker 2: cover over those memories of past lives. I guess it's

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Speaker 2: to give a skin in the game. You know, at

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Speaker 2: this stage of human development, for whatever reason, we need

399
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Speaker 2: to have a little more skin in the game that

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Speaker 2: were not these eternal souls, but to kind of buy

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Speaker 2: into this physical incarnation of so we don't dismiss or mistreated.

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Speaker 1: Right risk of doing that. A lot of what I

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Speaker 1: want to begin to discuss with you after in just

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Speaker 1: a few minutes. We'll get to it in a bit. Is

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Speaker 1: is uh, huge questions I have about why why we

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Speaker 1: have We'll get into this in a little bit, but

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Speaker 1: why we have this this maya or why why is

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Speaker 1: there this ego that you call the supreme illusion? Why

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Speaker 1: is this built into our evolutionary process, or why even

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Speaker 1: in our cultural you know, biases. And I'm just really

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Speaker 1: interested in like the function of the default network and

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Speaker 1: the function of the ego as as creating the sense

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Speaker 1: of separateness. And I'm really curious about why would that

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Speaker 1: even exist for us? You know, what's the function of that?

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Speaker 1: We can get into that.

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Speaker 2: But we can get into all that in a few minutes. Uh,

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Speaker 2: It's those are fascinating and very important questions because that's

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Speaker 2: where the kind of deeper meaning and reasoning behind all

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Speaker 2: this starts to crystallize out. But I'll just finish my

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Speaker 2: indie here to interrupt.

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Speaker 1: No, that's quite right.

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Speaker 2: But at any rate, so that vision was incredible, and

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Speaker 2: also that vision showed me this is not reincarnation in

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Speaker 2: the kind of blind mechanistic get off the wheel of

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Speaker 2: suffering and Buddhism, but much more of a grace filled

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Speaker 2: and progress and transformation filled. And that's where I think

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Speaker 2: we'll find some answers to your question, is because of

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Speaker 2: where all this allows us to lead our emerging reality,

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Speaker 2: and where human sentience and sentience of other of beings

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Speaker 2: throughout the cosmos is leading towards this progression and a

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Speaker 2: kind of a grace field growth towards oneness with the divine.

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Speaker 2: So it's not pointless at all. It's kind of about

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Speaker 2: a shared meaning and purpose. But at any rate, getting

434
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: back to my journey, there were many lessons. I mean,

435
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: we could talk for hours about so much of what

436
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 2: I learned and what was shown in various different ways.

437
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: But the important thing to get is that I would

438
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: cycle through these levels. As I said, I'd tumbled down

439
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: from that core level all the way back down to

440
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: the earth orm my view, and learned that by remembering

441
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: the musical notes of the melody, I could conjure up

442
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 2: that light portal that took me up and then they

443
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: always welcome by the beautiful guardian angel on the butterfly wing,

444
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: and then escorted up through the core into the deeper

445
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 2: lessons in that timeless realm of pure oneness. At any rate,

446
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: there came a time, as I'd often been told, going

447
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 2: into the Core, you're not here to stay, You'll be

448
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: going back. And there came a time, after multiple passages,

449
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: where I tried to conjure up the musical notes of

450
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: the melody to escort me up out of the earth

451
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 2: form my view, and it didn't work. So to say

452
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: I was sad at that point would be an understatement.

453
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: But also I knew I could trust that I would

454
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 2: be taken care of. And that's one of the most

455
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: beautiful things that anyone can gain from hearing these stories,

456
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: is a sense of trust in that loving God force

457
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: at the core of the universe. And from that point on,

458
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: one of the last visions I had in my Nde

459
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: was of thousands of beings going off around me into

460
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: the distance, arms up like that, some holding candles, some

461
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: with hoods, and this murmuring energy coming from them. The

462
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: fascinating thing was, even though I was back down in

463
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: this kind of murky earth for my view where it

464
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: all started, now they were all this kind of mirth

465
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: and joy that I sensed in the Gateway Valley and

466
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: the Core in earlier passages was now present at this

467
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: lowest realm and I realized. I called that the power

468
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: of prayer in my writings when I came back to

469
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: this world and a few weeks later was trying to

470
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: record it all. That's what I sensed as those thousands

471
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: of beings go around me, because it was kind of

472
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: guiding me back towards the earthly realm. And then there

473
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: were six faces that I saw at the very end

474
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: of my journey. They were very important. They serve as

475
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: what are called vertical time anchors, because in looking back

476
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 2: on it, the five of those faces were only of

477
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: family and friends present in the ic room the last

478
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: twenty four to forty eight hours of coma. So in

479
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: other words, those faces showed me that the vast majority

480
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 2: of the spiritual journey had to happen between days one

481
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: and four one in five and I explained all that

482
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: timing and proof of having and especially also in the

483
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: third book Living in a Mind for Universe or go

484
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: into some of that, and that's where we really bring

485
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: the science and spirituality together. One of those faces is

486
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: important because she was not physically present. That was a

487
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: good friend of mine all the way back to Freshman

488
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: English nineteen seventy two at UNC Chapel Hill, Susan Rinches.

489
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: That's when I'd first met her. We lost touch. And

490
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: then when I was a resident neur surgery in the

491
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, she was a co teacher with my former

492
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: spouse at a school in Raleigh, North Carolina, and so

493
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 2: they got to know Susan again, and at that point

494
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: they realized that Susan had done channeling work, and she

495
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: wrote a book called Third Eye Open about her work

496
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: where she had channeled to people like in coma and

497
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: other things to help them. And she came to me

498
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: because my former spouse and a good friend of her, Sylvia,

499
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: called Susan and asked her to intervene, and so on

500
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: nights four and five, she channeled to me. And so

501
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 2: when I was waking up in the ic room and

502
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 2: I say, you were there, and you and you, but

503
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: where was Susan, They said, well, Susan wasn't physically here.

504
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: She channeled to you from one hundred and twenty miles away.

505
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: And of course to me, I just knew, well, of

506
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: course that realm is non physical and so distance is

507
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: no object. So it made perfect sense that she had

508
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: channeled to me. But it was the last of those

509
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: six faces it's the most important. It was a ten

510
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: year old boy, and I didn't recognize them at the

511
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: time because my amnesia was filled very much. In effect,

512
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: it was my son Bond. That was a Sunday morning.

513
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 2: It was day seven of coma. That's when the doctors

514
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: held a conference where they told my family I'd gone

515
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: from a ten percent chance of survival early in the

516
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: week but was now down to two percent chance of survival,

517
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 2: but with no realistic chance of recovery. A week in

518
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: coma with a severe meningitis like that with a through

519
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: or spinal fluid glue coast level of one where years

520
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: of mine might be eighty, anybody with bad big turium

521
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 2: and andingitis might get to twenty. Well, none of the

522
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: consultants had ever heard of that, but my CSF glucose

523
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: was only one. They'd run out of sugar to eat

524
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: and they were eating my brain. So and of course

525
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: any neuroscientists today would look at me and say, well

526
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: you can and that's it, because look how well you're doing.

527
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: But that begs the question that misses the point that

528
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: was made by the three authors who wrote the case

529
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: report for the Medical journal that I had an NDE

530
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: and if you don't count that, then you really have

531
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: no way of understanding how I had this miraculous recovery.

532
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: So it's all that's a big important lesson for all

533
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: of us about the nature of free will and healing

534
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: and all those kind of things. But ultimately what happened

535
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: was in seeing that face of my son but not

536
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: recognizing him. He was pleading with me, Daddy's going to

537
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: be okay. Daddy, He's gonna be okay. Is if somehow

538
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: that would make it so? And that's how I came

539
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: back to this world. I don't understand the mechanics of

540
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: it all, and it was the most frightening aspect of

541
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: the whole part of the journey, because you know this,

542
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: I had thought throughout the NDE, this can continue, it

543
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 2: conceis doesn't matter. But now everything did matter. I had

544
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: a big sense of responsibility to this other soul and

545
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: really had to be there for him. And so it

546
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: was soon thereafter that I was fighting the ventilator and

547
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: trying to come back to this world. And I still

548
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: was in and out of a thirty six hour paranoid, delusional,

549
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: psychotic nightmare as I emerged from coma. But that was

550
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: very important because the memories of those events disappeared within weeks,

551
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: whereas the memories from the deep Comba experience are as

552
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: strong and resilient and solid today as if they just

553
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: happened yesterday, completely different from imagination or dreamed events. That's

554
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: why we need to take these stories so seriously at

555
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: any rate. So I did wake up came back to

556
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: this world. Initially, it was a very rough go for

557
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: my family because in those first minutes an hour or

558
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: so of waken up, I wasn't even recognizing love into

559
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 2: the bedside like my mother, sisters, sons, et cetera. But

560
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: those memories came back very rapidly, language, very rapidly, and

561
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: within a day or so I was getting a whole

562
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: lot back. But it did take, as I said, two

563
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: months to get everything back. And during that time, you know,

564
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: I was first of all writing down everything I could remember,

565
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: after my son advised me to write it all down

566
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: before I read anyone else's indie account. That was very

567
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: smart advice. Therefore, I had twenty thousand words that I

568
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: wrote down and I hadn't read indie accounts before. So

569
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: that was really my story without any kind of influence

570
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: from outside or anybody else. And then of course I

571
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: was going to the hospital, talking with my doctors, going

572
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: through my scans, CTSMRIS.

573
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: Et cetera.

574
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: And it wasn't lining up. That brain was not just

575
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: playing tricks because it was dying. That brain was unable

576
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: to host any kind of dream or hallucination. That was

577
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: quite clear from the documented damage of the Glasgow coma scales,

578
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: the neurologic exams, as Kilo cardiac reflex, things like that.

579
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: It was this was a brain far too gone to

580
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: be hosting extraordinary, a rich and memorable and transformational spiritual experiences.

581
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: And so that's why it's important, is as I tell

582
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: in the book Proof of Heaven, that incredibly a mind

583
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: bending point four months after my coma, where I'd been

584
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: so shocked, you know, I realized if I had scripted this,

585
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 2: my adoptive father would have been the soul, would have

586
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: been the spiritual guide, and yet he was nowhere to

587
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: be found in And we describe all that in our

588
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: third book, Living in a Mind for Universe, where I

589
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: talk about encountering my father's soul two and a half

590
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: years after my coma in meditation. And that is a

591
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: very important point because when I encountered his soul. He

592
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: made it clear to me he couldn't be apparent to me,

593
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: as he put it with his sense of humor, Because

594
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: if that had been the case, in spite of one

595
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: in ten million diagnoses of equal imeningitis and an adult

596
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: in spite of one in a billion recovery, if my

597
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: adoptive father had been there, if his soul had been there,

598
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: I would have been a little more tempted to dismiss

599
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: it all as oh, you see who you want to

600
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: see on the way out. The universe kind of doubled

601
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: the ante and gave me a whole different level of

602
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: understanding through the identity of that guardian angel that I

603
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: only discovered four months post coma when I got a

604
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: picture in the mail from my birth sister who had

605
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: only met a year earlier, of another birth sister who

606
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: we had lost.

607
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: And I won't say.

608
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: More kind of spoiler alert for the book Proof of Heaven,

609
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: But when I recovered the identity of that guardian angel,

610
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: it brought me to my knees and I went, oh,

611
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: seemed way too real to be real, because it really happened,

612
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: and it's almost says if she's looking at me in

613
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: that picture saying, do you finally get it? I guess, Betsy,

614
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: I'm finally getting it. And since then, sixteen years of

615
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: hard work as a scientist, working with fellow experiencers other scientists.

616
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: It deeply involves quantum physics and how neurons are basically

617
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: quantum computers, and a deeper understanding of kind of top

618
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: down causality to begin making sense of it. But most importantly,

619
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 2: my spiritual journey has shown me that, you know, the

620
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: hardships and challenges and difficulties in life are gifts, and

621
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: it's how we respond to those and how we are

622
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: energized by those hardships and challenges, illness, injury, what have you.

623
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: That's what enables our incredible soul growth. And the soul

624
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 2: growth happens with what we do in these bodies, with

625
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: that temporary dumbing down and not necessarily remembering all the

626
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: knowledge of a higher soul than involves prior lifetimes, et cetera.

627
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: So there's a lot going on here, a lot of

628
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: moving parts, but it hurts to make a lot more

629
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: sense as you put this much bigger picture together. But

630
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: the bigger picture emerging in the scientific community is absolutely

631
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: one of a primacy of mind. That is what is

632
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: so reassuring that we're all truly in this together and

633
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 2: just as Inde have been trying to tell us for

634
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: thousands of years, you know, we're bound together through forces

635
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: of love, and love brings us into healing and wholeness.

636
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: And that's true for any one of us as individuals,

637
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: although no one's ever a quote individual. We're all part

638
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: of soul groups and none of it ever happens with

639
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 2: an individual soul, but it always happens with groups evolving together,

640
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 2: and we're all doing that in large measure, you know,

641
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: with sentience throughout the cosmos, and that includes sentience thence

642
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: also comes in and out of kind of material bodies,

643
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: but is ultimately much more than that. And I think

644
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 2: that's the biggest lesson from NDASE and from the science

645
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: of consciousness, that we have shared meaning and purpose and

646
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 2: also a shared connection through our mental space and come

647
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: to realize that all that emerges in the physical world

648
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: is ultimately determined by our willful interaction with the universe

649
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: at a mental level. And this is why centering, prayer,

650
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: and meditation are so important. If you just live in

651
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: this material world in your little ego mind. The ego

652
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: only uses fear and anxieties its main tools. The ego

653
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: was absolutely tied up with all addictions and dysfunctions. And

654
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 2: this is about coming to recognize and cultivate our relationship

655
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 2: with our higher soul. That is thank you so much.

656
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: That's such an elegant and probably very condensed version of

657
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: the big story and your transformation and your journey all

658
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: the way through that. I have so many questions to

659
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 2: ask you about so many parts of it. If that's okay,

660
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 2: we can sort of start to unpack some of it. Absolutely.

661
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: I will say that Bruce Grayson got back to us recently.

662
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: We asked him for an interview and he said he

663
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: would be delighted, but apparently he had suffered a stroke

664
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: and so he said he was in no condition to

665
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: do an interview at this point in time, which was heartbreaking.

666
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: But another thing is I'm also a Chapel Hill graduate.

667
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: Really, oh, I love that. Excellent, fantastic, Well, I've absolutely

668
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 2: some of my finest memories of life were those chapter

669
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: eight years in Chapel Hill. I was there from seventy

670
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: two to seventy six.

671
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah, And I'd like to just for our

672
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: listeners who maybe aren't familiar with the idea or the

673
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: term of I guess it's materialism or materialistic science that's

674
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: the dominant, the currently dominant view in science that consciousness

675
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: is purely a product of brain activity, and that it

676
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: ceases when brain when the brain stops functioning. But Eben,

677
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: you and others have offered this new definition of consciousness,

678
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: and I want to talk about that first. I want

679
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: to I want to ask you a little bit about

680
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: your healing process. So, when you were cycling through these

681
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: different realms in your near death experience, and when you

682
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: were in this other, even more vivid, more real than

683
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: reality space, would you say that that there was healing

684
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: happening to you in that space? Were you being healed

685
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: or were you in what was it an emotional healing

686
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: or was it a physical healing? Secondarily very strong emotional healing.

687
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: And I would say it's the same kind of healing

688
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: that I think is widely available to us when we

689
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: go to prayer and meditation. And I'm talking specifically about

690
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: centering prayer, which is a form of kind of defocused

691
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: prayer that really just kind of allows one to connect

692
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: with that God force of healing and the wholeness and love.

693
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: It was something that was just flowing through me and

694
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: also one of the reasons why I continue to meditate

695
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: and for anyone who needs a tool for meditation, and

696
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: meditation to me very simply involves acknowledging kind of the

697
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: higher aspects of soul that we are and putting that

698
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: little ego voice into timeout. You know, look how Michael

699
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: Singer in his book The Untethered Soul, he calls a

700
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: voice in your head, the annoying roommate. Roommate that is

701
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: absolutely on target. Now your consciousness is your awareness of

702
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: that voice. Now, that part is quite magical, and that's

703
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: an alignment with the universe at large. And that's what

704
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: I think is so important to get. But it's why

705
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: meditation is so important. And for anybody who needs a tool,

706
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: I can recommend one, and that is Sacred Acoustics. And

707
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: it's a form of buino orbeat brain waven trainment.

708
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: Full disclosure. Sacred Acoustics as a company, you know, Sacred

709
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: Acoustics dot Com was co founded by my wife, Karen Newell,

710
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: who also is a co author of that third book,

711
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: Living in a mi Own for Universe. She's a great

712
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 2: spiritual mentor who I've been with for about twelve years now,

713
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: and she has been a tremendous guide to me. And

714
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: she also knows a tremendous amount about sound and how

715
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 2: it can be used to achieve transcendental states of conscious awareness.

716
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: A pilot study by doctor Anna Yusam in the peer

717
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: viewed scientific literature supporting sacred acoustics for a leaf of anxiety,

718
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 2: she found that in her busy Manhattan practice, she had

719
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: a twenty six percent reduction in anxiety symptoms over two weeks,

720
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 2: versus only seven percent in the control group. Control group

721
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: got standard psychotherapy for anxiety, but just by listening sagred

722
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 2: acoustics tones, twenty six percent reduction over two weeks. That's

723
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: a pretty powerful result. In the Journal of Nervous and

724
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: Mental Diseases January of twenty twenty, that anti usum study

725
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 2: came out. But much more is going on than just

726
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 2: relief of anxiety. And that's what happens when you start

727
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: connecting with that higher soul and putting your ego in

728
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 2: the back seat where it belongs, where it's not trying

729
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 2: to drive right, and that's where so much healing can come.

730
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: But that's exactly the kind of thing I was feeling

731
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: deep in my coma as I was going through This

732
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: was healing, coming into wholeness. It's interesting because a lot

733
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: of my work, everything, even in the fiction world, is

734
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: all about sort of how people compensate for what they

735
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: perceive as a lack of a sense of belonging. And

736
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 2: I believe, I believe truly that, you know, anthropologically, the

737
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: need to belong is greater, a greater force than the

738
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 2: need to survive or to preserve life throughout throughout history

739
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: and humanity, and a lot of there's there's sort of this.

740
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 2: I believe there was a study done where they, you know,

741
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: an addiction study, where have you heard of this with

742
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: the rats or the rats are mice in a cage?

743
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: And I'll have to go back when I'm done with

744
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: this interview to tell the listeners exactly what this was.

745
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: But the the rat they give them, you know, the

746
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: traditional addiction studies, they would give them cocaine or heroin

747
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: in one dropper, and then the other one was just

748
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: pure water. And then and they tended to just over

749
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: use the cocaine or the heroine until they died. And

750
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: then this one person said, this one reach's researcher said, well,

751
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: that's they're isolated in a cage by themselves, so they

752
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: choose this sort of morbidity. He said, why don't we

753
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: change the environment. Let's put them in a a in

754
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: a rat paradise where there's you know, wheels and colors

755
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: and lots of other animals there, and its social interactions.

756
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: In that case, they didn't. They avoided the cocaine and

757
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: the heroin laced water and they went for the healthy water,

758
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: or almost one hundred percent. And so it points out

759
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: the idea that you cannot look at addiction and you know,

760
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: this need, this hunger for dopamine. You can't look at

761
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: addiction without also also understanding the need to belong and

762
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: that unity a beautiful point.

763
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, especially when you look at

764
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: where consciousness studies are going now, the signs of consciousness

765
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: of explaining many of these incredible events after death communications,

766
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: deathbed visions in the hospice, you know, not just near death,

767
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 2: but shared death, which share death experiences happen in perfectly

768
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: healthy people. They are usually a healthcare worker or a

769
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: loved one who can be one thousand miles away from

770
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: somebody who's passing, but in a shared death, their souls

771
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: come together and the bystander soul can even witness a

772
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,919
Speaker 2: life review before it comes back to this world. So

773
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 2: the interesting thing in light of your comments about kind

774
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: of community and society and relationships with others, is you

775
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: find that ultimately every bit of our progress is about relationships.

776
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: It's about how we treat ourselves, how we treat others,

777
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 2: how we interact with them, and that is absolutely the

778
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 2: material by which our souls make any kind of progression

779
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 2: and contribution to the evolution of all consciousness is through

780
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: these relationships. They are what matter. And ultimately you find

781
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: from the NDE community especially that the tip of the

782
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: spear is really one of the binding force of love. So,

783
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: in other words, as you get closer and closer to the

784
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: kind of the spiritual core of the universe, you find

785
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: there's not some battle between good and evil going on there,

786
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: but that it's pure love that God force. And this

787
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: comes out when you look at the incredible variety of

788
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: how love manifests and near death experiences. When I say

789
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: that talking specifically about, for example, Nancy Evans Bush, who's

790
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: written extensively about negative or hellish indies, Now they may

791
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 2: only be about five or six percent of all indies,

792
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 2: but I think they're an important category. It turns out

793
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: that they also lead the participant towards love, kindness, compassion,

794
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,439
Speaker 2: and mercy. So they have the same transformational effect as

795
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: the positive indies. We you find, like even in a

796
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: prison community where you've got basically murderers and rapists and

797
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: they're serving as hospice for their fellow prisoners, you find

798
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 2: the same thing that as they approach death, it's making

799
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: amends and acknowledging the wrongs they've done to other to

800
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: other beings, and kind of a sense of commonality and

801
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 2: realizing that to hurt another was truly to hurt oneself.

802
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: That's the context in which they're growing. At the very

803
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: end of their life, they're gleaning these lessons, and the

804
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: lessons don't let them off the hook for what they've

805
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 2: done to others, but by making a men's seeking forgiveness

806
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: and forgiving oneself is an important part of it. And

807
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 2: I also point out that for our world at large,

808
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: a forgiveness of the perpetrator is an important step to take.

809
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: You don't even have to ever tell the perpetrator you're

810
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: forgiving them. But to release your own heart from the

811
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: travesty of keeping yourself imprisoned with a revenge mode, you know,

812
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: is just it's it makes no sense. And so there's

813
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: a far better way of looking at positive progression, at love, kindness,

814
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 2: at making amends and working towards the next lifetime where

815
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: you can make far better contributions to the overall higher good.

816
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: And that's what I think are the main lessons that

817
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: come out of indiease is we're all in this together.

818
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: We're here to use that binding force of love to

819
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: help our fellow.

820
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: You know, souls.

821
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 2: It really is all about manifesting kindness, love, compassion, mercy

822
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 2: when necessary, forgiveness and of course never forget gratitude. And

823
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: this again is the main argument for centering prayer and meditation,

824
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 2: because I would argue that you don't have to have

825
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: gone through what I went through to come to the

826
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: same kind of understanding of our deeper nature and our

827
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 2: spiritual nature.

828
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: You can use prayer.

829
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 2: And meditation, and if you do that on a regular basis,

830
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: you'll start to realize that we do have these connections

831
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 2: with that loving God for us, and that ultimately it

832
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: gives us tremendous power to come into healing and wholeness

833
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: in our lives, but that involves serving the higher good

834
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: and taking care of others. Ultimately, there's no way that

835
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 2: an individual soul, a selfish, greeting, narcissistic, egocentric soul, makes

836
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 2: any kind of real progress in this world. And to me,

837
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 2: it's saddening to see souls like that get to the

838
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: end of their life and have made no progress at all,

839
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 2: right because they're doomed in their life review. Whatever they

840
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: cannot fix and make amends for, it's going to be

841
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: repackaged in the next life, so you know, and.

842
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: They say, you know, hate is like drinking poison and

843
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: expecting the other person to get sick, exactly, you know

844
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: I and you know I also wanted to mention we

845
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: interviewed you. Have you heard of David Ditchfield In his

846
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: story David Ditchfield was He's a British fellow who was

847
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: dragged underneath the train and horribly injured and had a

848
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: near death experience. But in his in thee he had

849
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: a similar experience to yours, where this you know, resonant sound,

850
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: the symphonic for lack of a better way to describe it,

851
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: he heard this symphony and it played over and over

852
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 1: and over, and when he came back, he composed without

853
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: any prior musical training, composed a symphony based on what

854
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: he had experienced. That's so it's beautiful. It's pretty many

855
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: you can check it out, but it's pretty very beautiful,

856
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: and it's a beautif full symphony. I mean, it's just

857
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: gorgeously just washes. It's a bath that washes over you.

858
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: And he he was able to get an entire orchestra

859
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 1: to perform it. Oh, that's amazing. I'd like to take

860
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: to sort of shift towards looking at, you know, getting

861
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: past the materialistic scientific viewpoints, and how you and your

862
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: journey towards bringing what you gleaned into the you know,

863
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: the scientific community afterwards. And I know that there was

864
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 1: probably some tension there, but I also want to talk

865
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: a little bit about sort of this this definition of

866
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: consciousness that's starting to that it exists independently of the brain,

867
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: and that the brain may act more as a filter

868
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,479
Speaker 1: or a transceiver, as you've said, for a larger non

869
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: local consciousness, and this everything you've been talking about. I

870
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: don't mean to just be reading my notes here, but

871
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: can you just walk us through your shift and understanding.

872
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: I mean, you've done that, but just specifically with any

873
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: previous dogma that you might have had in the materialistic

874
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: side of the scientific training that you'd had, and also

875
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: in what I'm interested in, what ways your medical background

876
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: has helped or complicated your effort to share this to

877
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: validate the legitimacy of ndies in the scientific community.

878
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 2: Well, I would say certainly of you know, something that

879
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,240
Speaker 2: may come as a surprise to some of your viewers

880
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: is that my greatest support has been from the scientific

881
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 2: community in huge measure. And that's once they, you know,

882
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: if they take the time to read the case report,

883
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: start learning more about my illness, they realize why I

884
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 2: was so befuddled by all this and why I was

885
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: so challenged, you know, because just recovering from that kind

886
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: of illness makes no sense. It doesn't happen in the

887
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: medical literature. But you find many other inde cases where

888
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 2: you have a miraculous healing, and to me, these are

889
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 2: some of the best examples of kind of mind over

890
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: my You know, that whole discussion as a healer, as

891
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 2: a neurosurgeon, as a physician can start with placebo effect

892
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: because we've recognized for thousands of years as healers that

893
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: the belief's thoughts and attitudes of the patient and of

894
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: the healer and of everybody else involved can play a

895
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 2: tremendous role in what happens. Do you actually get healing

896
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: or not, And so beliefs are incredibly important. The whole

897
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: thing has been an incredible journey of understanding, and it

898
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: basically led to one hundred and eighty degree flip. That

899
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 2: physicalism or materialism that you mentioned, that's really kind of

900
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: the conventional science that we were all taught in the

901
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: twentieth and early twenty first century, and in many ways

902
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 2: it devolves into a kind of Newtonian deterministic science. And

903
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: this is where I'll point out a quote, one of

904
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 2: my favorite quotes from the quantum physics community. This one

905
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: came from Werner Heisenberg, who won the Nobel Prize I

906
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 2: think in thirty two could be off on the year,

907
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 2: but he won it for his uncertainty principle. And Heisenberg said,

908
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: the first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will

909
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 2: lead you towards atheism, but at the bottom of the

910
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: glass God is waiting for you. He knew exactly what

911
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 2: was going on. Many other quantum physicists like Max playing

912
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 2: Erwin Schroederger Paswal, Jordan and others have talked about how

913
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 2: consciousness had this kind of primary presence in the universe

914
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 2: and was not the emergent property of brain that so

915
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 2: many kind of physicalists thought it was, but that we

916
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: had to reach much deeper to understand conscious experience. And

917
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 2: he knew that quantum physics was actually saying that because

918
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 2: before that science had this notion of a deterministic universe.

919
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: That's what Newton's laws told us. If you understand the

920
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: state of the universe at any one time, then you

921
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 2: can know where it's headed by under those laws that

922
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 2: govern the interactions of all these subatomic particles and then

923
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: larger assemblies of such particles. Interesting thing is, when you

924
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: get right down to that subatomic level, none of it

925
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: has that kind of predeterministic level at all. There's you know,

926
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: Schrodinger's equation is about an evolution through time, but it

927
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 2: takes observation to make things crystallize out. And that's a

928
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: really shocked quantum physicist was how this act of observation

929
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 2: kind of a mental choice of what to look at

930
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: and how played a gigantic role in what emerged from

931
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 2: your findings. Correct in fact, was so strong that Pascual

932
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 2: Jordan said, not only do our observations, you know, report

933
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: to us about reality, they actually change and create that

934
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 2: emerging reality. And that's exactly what we're finding in the

935
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: modern era. And it couldn't be more true than the

936
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: mind of a matter that we see extending beyond placebo effect,

937
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: which is showing us how important bleafs are. But you

938
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: can get into the realm of spontaneous remission. For example,

939
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 2: if you go to noetics dot organ Institute of Noetics

940
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 2: Sciences website, put in spontaneous remission as a search term.

941
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 2: You'll find a book that they published in the mid

942
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: nineties by Carole Hirschberg and Brendan o'reagan that has more

943
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 2: than thirty five hundred cases people with advanced cancer, advanced infection, etc.

944
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: Who would basically come to the limits of any medical

945
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: treatment and then started invoking spiritual type things like emotional engagement,

946
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 2: you know, processing negative emotions, fostering positive emotions, taking on

947
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 2: a more spiritual approach to life, seeking kind of meaning

948
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: and purpose in life.

949
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: Things like that.

950
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: It led people to be able to heal those advanced

951
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: cancers and infections that had not been fully cured with

952
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 2: various medical interventions. So you know, in other words, free

953
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: will is alive and well. And when you start acknowledging

954
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: the power of prayer and meditation, you start realizing how

955
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 2: all this can lead to our benefit. Now, one resource

956
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: I'd love to point out year of Audience, and this

957
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 2: is a resource that forever dispels the silly notion that

958
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 2: this modern idea of privacy of consciousness and fundamental nature

959
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 2: of mind and free will and the afterlife is fully

960
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 2: supported by modern science and afterlife and even reincarnation. If

961
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: you go to Bigelowinstitute dot org, that's the website I'm

962
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,959
Speaker 2: talking about, you'll find twenty nine essays at Bigelowinstitute dot

963
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: org that basically from scientists, all of whom had at

964
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 2: least five years experience investigating the afterlife question. And all

965
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 2: twenty nine of these essays, coming from many different directions,

966
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 2: support the reality of the afterlife and of reincarnation. So

967
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 2: a much bigger scientific view of who we are and

968
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 2: what this is all about and the very nature of

969
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 2: will and of the spiritual realm, etc. Comes with light

970
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: as scientifically supported at Bigelow Institute dot org. So highly

971
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 2: recommended people start reading those essays. That first place essay

972
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 2: by Jeffrey Mischlav incredibly powerful. But there are many other

973
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: scientific essays too, Bernardo Castrup's essay, Julian Weischel, Dean Rayden,

974
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Long. I mean a bunch of scientific essays in

975
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 2: I don't want to limit it, because all twenty nine

976
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 2: essays are extremely good.

977
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: They take us.

978
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,720
Speaker 2: Beyond the point. So any materialist or physicalist who tries

979
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 2: to tell you, oh that that you know in the

980
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: ease or nonsense, you know we've proven scientifically that's not true. Well,

981
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: they're telling you that they are basically wilfully ignorant.

982
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: They haven't even bothered.

983
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: To read any of the Bigelow essays, because once they're do,

984
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 2: they'll realize that their simplistic dismissal of the spiritual rem

985
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: in our spiritual nature is very unwarranted by the evidence.

986
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: I love how you've put that. There is so much dogma.

987
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's coming out of fear. I

988
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: don't know if it's coming out of some you know,

989
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: I have to look back at when I was so skeptic,

990
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: and you know, and I'm really more questioning now. I

991
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: don't have the answers, but I'm comfortable in my ability

992
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: to not have all the answers, but to be in

993
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: that's the state of questioning and to be open to it.

994
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: But I don't know what that dogma comes from and

995
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 1: why people cling so much to it. And I don't

996
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: know if it's a stigma that is born in culture,

997
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 1: perpetuated by the powers that be, or what have you.

998
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 2: But well, it's interesting. In the twentieth century there was this,

999
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: you know, heyday of success of materialist science. But also

1000
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: I will point out, for example, the chemists committed their

1001
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 2: sin in World War One inventing high explosives, machine guns,

1002
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 2: and poisonous gases. The physicists committed their sin in World

1003
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: War two and they created atomic bombs. I don't know

1004
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 2: about World War three, but if it's ever fought, world

1005
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 2: War four will be fault with sticks and stones paraphrase

1006
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 2: from Einstein. And it's absolutely true. There's no way to

1007
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 2: have any kind of winnable warl world War three. It's

1008
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: time to get rid of the nukes. But the bottom

1009
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 2: line is, yes, our science has been wonderful in progress

1010
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 2: in medicine and transportation, communication, and yet it's there's an

1011
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: ugly underbelly of that science and our addiction of fossil fuels,

1012
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 2: and you know, global warming, which absolutely is human calls

1013
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 2: by our addiction to burning carbon based fuels, and it

1014
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 2: is time to take responsibility and to come into some

1015
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: level of maturity. We call ourselves homo sapiens. Sapiens means wise.

1016
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: But I would say, given the big picture of where

1017
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 2: I see science now, with you know, the nuclear weapons

1018
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: and all the modern warfare enabled by science and our

1019
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 2: addiction of fossil fuels, et cetera, I start questioning just

1020
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 2: how wise we've been to date. And I would say

1021
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 2: that absolutely what we're talking about now is a turn

1022
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: towards wisdom. It's a turn towards acknowledging the oneness of mind,

1023
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 2: the binding force of law. There's a healing force in

1024
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 2: the universe. They're all truly in this together, and we

1025
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 2: need to be much better stewards for the planet. I mean,

1026
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: as it is, there are thousands of species who are

1027
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 2: threatened with extinction. Who can look at one spiece is

1028
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 2: the culprit?

1029
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's born out of I would say,

1030
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: I would offer that it's born out of that dualism

1031
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: and that dualistic thing like it. So if we are

1032
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: separate from each other and separate for if we have

1033
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: and it's the ego mind that that's causing this situation

1034
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: where we're thinking that we are separate, we're perceiving ourselves

1035
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: to be separate, you know. And then in a classical sense,

1036
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: if we're born, you know, we're made in the image

1037
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: of our creator. That means what you know, an old

1038
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: white man or something you know. So so does that

1039
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: mean that that then the entire world and everything around

1040
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: us becomes you know, something exploitable, and it is, and

1041
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: we don't see ourselves in in each other. We don't

1042
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: see ourselves. It allows for things like, you know, environmental disaster,

1043
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: It allows for things like races, It allows for these

1044
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: these horrible sort of thought patterns. Absolutely, I'd like to

1045
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that with you, because we're

1046
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: getting into my big question here of you know, many

1047
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: people describe their brush with death or their profound trauma

1048
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: as a kind of forced awakening, like an invitation to

1049
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: turn inward and do some of the deep inner work.

1050
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: And you've been talking about, you know, the power of

1051
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: prayer and the power of mindfulness and meditation. Are those

1052
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: the main key opportunities that you would see for people

1053
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: for awakening this sort of understanding of a larger group consciousness.

1054
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: I guess well, I think that's a lot of it.

1055
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: You know, always remember that our true spiritual growth as

1056
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 2: souls occurs in these bodies in the material realm. This

1057
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: is where we make the progress. The life review which

1058
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 2: occurs mainly in the spiritual realm, and that timeless aspect

1059
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 2: of the spiritual realm, that's really where you kind of

1060
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: make corrections and try and reshuffle the cards in the

1061
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 2: most kind of empowering way in the next life. So,

1062
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 2: but the living of it is what makes a difference.

1063
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 2: So it's not just resorting to prayer and meditation and

1064
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 2: going within. That's very good for helping us realize that

1065
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 2: we're much more than our physical body in our little

1066
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 2: ego mind. But it's all about getting the work done.

1067
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: The getting the work done is manifesting this love, showing

1068
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: love for others and living that life. And that's what

1069
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 2: I think is happening. I think there's a tremendous amount

1070
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: of people. I love how in a lot of younger audiences,

1071
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 2: you know, I see a lot of passion. And in fact,

1072
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: I was just reading an article how in the generation

1073
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 2: Z is now seeming to turn a little more towards

1074
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 2: religion and spirituality than like the millennials did, et cetera.

1075
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 2: Maybe there's some shift. And in fact, the article I read,

1076
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: and I think it was Vox, was trying to explain

1077
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: all this, and they weren't looking at the kind of

1078
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: explanations we're talking about, and that is that as the

1079
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: world is discovering, in approaching truth and trying to come

1080
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 2: to a deeper understanding nature of existence, that were actually

1081
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: hooked together through mind, and that in fact, our existence

1082
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 2: doesn't end with the death of the physical body. In fact,

1083
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 2: our awareness expands tremendously. I mean, that's basically what indie

1084
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 2: ears are telling you, when their awareness expands so much

1085
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 2: that they can witness their entire life bert to death

1086
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 2: as one continuous, interactive set of events that then make

1087
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 2: much more sense when viewed from that kind of lofty perspective.

1088
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 2: You start realizing that we've kind of fooled ourselves into

1089
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 2: thinking we're much smaller than we actually are. Much less

1090
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 2: important and much less influential and isolated world. And what

1091
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 2: I see happening is a grander sense of coming to

1092
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 2: recognize is the power we have over our lives and

1093
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 2: over the world at large, especially as we focus on

1094
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 2: the higher good and on taking care of the least,

1095
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 2: the last, and the lost. I know in some political

1096
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: circles that's not necessarily the direction forward, but I would

1097
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 2: say from this spiritual perspective, there's no doubt that it's

1098
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 2: all about taking care of the less fortunate society. And

1099
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 2: the point you were making earlier is when I often

1100
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 2: make that the false sense of separation that is inherent

1101
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: in materialist or physicalist thought is really a doom. You know,

1102
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 2: that false sense of separation leads us into this kind

1103
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 2: of nonsensical realm where we think we're always in competition

1104
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 2: with others, and then it's a zero sum game and

1105
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 2: if you don't win it all, then you lose it all.

1106
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 2: And that kind of thinking, and a lot of that

1107
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: discussion in the twentieth and early twenty first century was

1108
01:02:55,440 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: also kind of bundled with discussions of Darwinian evolution were misleading.

1109
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 2: In the mid twentieth century, a lot of that discussion

1110
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 2: of Darwinism and neo Darwinism was focusing on survival of

1111
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 2: the fittest and that you outcompete your enemy, your nemesis,

1112
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 2: what have you. And I would say that biologists have

1113
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 2: come to recognize that by and large, collaboration and cooperation

1114
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 2: are far more powerful principles in the natural biological kingdom

1115
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 2: for success and thriving that the sense of competition in

1116
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 2: beating up the other and you know, zero sum game,

1117
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 2: et cetera. And it was those discussions together that were

1118
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 2: so damaging, you know, the materialism, false sense of separation,

1119
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 2: darwinning competition, as opposed to coming to acknowledge what all

1120
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 2: of that research has shown in recent decades, which is

1121
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 2: that it's all about collaboration and cooperation. You see species

1122
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 2: interspecies like for example, of dolphins serving as midwives in

1123
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 2: the birthing of whales, calves, things like that. So you've

1124
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 2: got species helping other species things done. And in that environment,

1125
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 2: I look at all these poor animals that are stuck

1126
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 2: in forest fires and in droughts and floods. You know

1127
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 2: that in many ways are human cause with global warming,

1128
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 2: And say who is the bad guy here? And it's

1129
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 2: you know it's us human with our false sense of

1130
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 2: separation without competition and kind of destroying the environment for

1131
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 2: profit motive. I mean, all of that is extremely misguided

1132
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 2: and incongruent with where I see the world headed, with

1133
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 2: this notion of primacy of mind and the binding course

1134
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 2: of love as a force of healing and wholeness and

1135
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 2: restoration and allowing us to become the souls we came

1136
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 2: here to be. So to me, this is a revolution

1137
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 2: that's gigantic in scale. It's not just something that's a

1138
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 2: resolution of a few decades worth of human interaction. It's

1139
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 2: thousands of years of human interaction that is now being

1140
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 2: kind of realigned, reassessed, and I think brought more into

1141
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 2: a closer alignment with truth and the nature of reality,

1142
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 2: and that is one that reflects the love and kindness

1143
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 2: and compassion and that were really here to serve as

1144
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 2: better stewards for this planet.

1145
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: So you see a growing interest, You see a movement

1146
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: and a growing interest in sort of the consciousness studies

1147
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: and near death experiences and even psychedelic research as signs

1148
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: of scientific conversation beginning to shift. I do think so

1149
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 1: it is happening.

1150
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 2: I see it and then you've got to remember that

1151
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 2: in the background to all of that, which I think

1152
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 2: is a true revolution. I remember, it's just an example

1153
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 2: of Karen and I were at a conference on indies

1154
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 2: and neuroscience in Belgium in twenty eighteen, and one of

1155
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 2: the speakers from the Lori's Lab showed a slide of

1156
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 2: the number of indie e papers in PubMed globally increasing

1157
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 2: fourfold after twenty twelve twenty thirteen. But there's a question

1158
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 2: that the scientific community has turned dramatically more in favor

1159
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 2: of this, and you find less and less of the

1160
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 2: materialist person getting online to provide that argument, because really

1161
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: they're not following the data. And that's the good news

1162
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 2: is the data really leads in one direction, and that's

1163
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 2: towards a much more enhanced view of spirituality, of oneness,

1164
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 2: of that body, force of love, and after death communications,

1165
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 2: deathbed visions, nd shared death past life memories and children.

1166
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 2: All of this gives us a tremendous reason to be

1167
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 2: optimistic and hopeful about the human condition, the eternity of

1168
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 2: the soul, and how we're contributing to these evolution of

1169
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 2: consciousness throughout the cosmos. I mean to me it's all

1170
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 2: really good news, and it has to be rejecting that

1171
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 2: kind of bleak and paltry fiction of materialism that used

1172
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 2: to be there. That is, you know, you're a meat robot.

1173
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 2: You have no free will, Your existence is burned to

1174
01:06:58,560 --> 01:06:59,479
Speaker 2: death and nothing more.

1175
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: How fun is that? Yeah, you're giving me great hope

1176
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: in your passion for this gives me great hope. And

1177
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 1: you know who knows? Maybe you know, who are we

1178
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: to say that you weren't you didn't have this experience

1179
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: specifically so that you could bridge the gap between the

1180
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 1: sciences and the spirituality, you know, I mean that's part

1181
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: of it. I certainly have become the messengers. So it

1182
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: makes sense.

1183
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a messenger. I mean to me, I the

1184
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 2: You know what, one of the best benefits to me

1185
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 2: has been by going public with my story. There are

1186
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 2: thousands of people around this world who have shared their

1187
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 2: stories with me, and that is that's a gold mine. Now,

1188
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 2: we tried to turn a lot of those stories into

1189
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 2: a book. That's what the book Map of Heaven is

1190
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 2: all about. That stories that were just showing that this

1191
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 2: doesn't just happen to some you know, Harvard neurosurgeon who

1192
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 2: then comes back these claims, But in fact it's happened

1193
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 2: with millions of people around the world, across cultures, across languages,

1194
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 2: across absolutely and once you pay attention to it. And

1195
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 2: don't you know, the materialist scientists through much of the

1196
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 2: twentieth century, we're just saying that stuff's nonsense. We've disproven

1197
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 2: that scientifically, there's no such thing as a spiritual realm.

1198
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 2: They said it with such confidence, and yet they were lying,

1199
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 2: who were absolutely lying? So read go to Bigelowinstitute dot org.

1200
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: Start reading those twenty nine essays. You realize how much

1201
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: the scientific community is actually affirming and validating the reality

1202
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 2: of our existence as spiritual beings in a spiritual universe.

1203
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: Science and spirituality help each other, They strengthen each other.

1204
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: I don't know how much more time you have. I

1205
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,759
Speaker 1: just I really wanted to get to my big question,

1206
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: which is sort of trying to unpack or get to

1207
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: the mechanics of and this is probably just me a

1208
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: fascination of mine, but to get the mechanics of you know,

1209
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 1: where's the genesis of this false sense of separation? Like

1210
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,719
Speaker 1: is this you know, why do we have this default

1211
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: network in our brain? And why do we you know,

1212
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: what is the function? And from your perspective and from

1213
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: what you've experienced, what is the function of ego? Let

1214
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: me just read these notes real quick. So it's like, so,

1215
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: from your perspective, why do we have the kind of

1216
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 1: brain and mental structure that we do. Why the filtering,

1217
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: why the ego? Why have we evolved or adapted to

1218
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: have this perception of separateness and beyond our perception? What

1219
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: is the purpose of this deeply convincing experience that there's

1220
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: separation and individual identity. I'm wondering where that, how did

1221
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: that evolve and what function did it have for us

1222
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:35,600
Speaker 1: as a species.

1223
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 2: Well, I would say at kind of a primary level

1224
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 2: that the kind of ego mind and that ego sense

1225
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 2: of presence and existence is there to support the biological

1226
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 2: needs of the body. So, in other words, of kind

1227
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 2: of the ego mind manages the programming that allows us

1228
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 2: to take care of ourselves in terms of you know,

1229
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 2: eating and re producing in those kinds of things. But

1230
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 2: I would say that from my perspective, you know, it's

1231
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 2: really hard to kind of fully explain that way that

1232
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 2: there seems to be this sense by which, you know,

1233
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 2: when one gains a much more enlightened kind of spiritual

1234
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 2: approach to understanding. It seems to be very rewarding, especially

1235
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 2: in facing things like death of the of the body

1236
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 2: and emities. You know, it turns out that our higher

1237
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 2: soul kind of awareness is something that's not always so

1238
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 2: obvious to our ego mind at all. And that's one

1239
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 2: of the reasons why in meditation I work so hard

1240
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 2: to kind of turn off my little ego voice. I'm

1241
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 2: turning it over to the universe to kind of show

1242
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 2: me what I need to know in that grander spiritual sense,

1243
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: and that I think gives us a tremendous advantage in

1244
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 2: terms of where we're headed, where humanity is headed, where

1245
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 2: sentience is headed, because it's a much more kind of

1246
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 2: open ended field of possibility for soul expression and that

1247
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 2: kind of thing. But it is kind of mysterious how

1248
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 2: this program forgetting even works. You know, it's interesting when

1249
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 2: you study these children who remember past lives and they

1250
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 2: can have such vivid kind of phobias and behaviors. Some

1251
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 2: of them even have birth marks they were I think

1252
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 2: it was twenty percent of Ian Stevenson's original series had

1253
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 2: birth marks that were related to the prior mode of

1254
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: violent unexpected death. And that's another important thing to say

1255
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 2: is that seventy percent I think of those cases that

1256
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 2: were reported by Stevenson and Jim Tucker had a violent death.

1257
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: So, in other.

1258
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 2: Words, it was premature, it was unexpected, it was sudden,

1259
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:57,440
Speaker 2: and that might explain part of why it's so memorable

1260
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 2: into a next lifetime, that it was so trumatic that

1261
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 2: they left with so many things unfinished, that you know,

1262
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 2: they remembered that those kind of features of an earlier

1263
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 2: life are still with them in a new lifetime. And

1264
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 2: yet by age six or seven, as Tucker and Stevenson

1265
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 2: have showed, those memories start to disappear. And why is

1266
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 2: that that we would bring those memories in as a

1267
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 2: higher sol early in life that they would still be there,

1268
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 2: and yet as we mature and become the person that

1269
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,719
Speaker 2: we're going that's going to live this life, those memories

1270
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 2: of the past life disappear. And I think again it's

1271
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:36,560
Speaker 2: a statement more about where humanity is and their understanding.

1272
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 2: I think there have been times in human history where

1273
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 2: we had a much more natural and kind of broad based,

1274
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 2: spiritual understanding of things, and of course.

1275
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 1: Or maybe even an intrinsic knowing maybe that we've you know,

1276
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: there was a lot of intuition, a lot of like

1277
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: there's a statement in the kind of Indie literature, especially

1278
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: when you look back across indigenous cultures, that occasionally in

1279
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: those cultures you don't even find a life review. And

1280
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 1: I would say that that circumstance is probably one that

1281
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: arises more in these aboriginal cultures that have much more

1282
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 1: of a sense of connection with each other and don't

1283
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:24,000
Speaker 1: have some time goo an ego conflict. But for example,

1284
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 1: the societies where women share caring of infants and they

1285
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: basically hand them around all the time, and they basically

1286
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 1: as a group, these women feel the needs of the

1287
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 1: infants and take care of them, you know, as a group,

1288
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: and they're much more efficient doing that. And I think

1289
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:45,639
Speaker 1: that only happens in a society where you don't have

1290
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 1: a lot of boundaries of egos trying to protect individual agendas,

1291
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 1: but you're much more focused on the higher good and

1292
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: the social agenda of the group at large. So it's funny,

1293
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: it's just sort of like what we desperately need long

1294
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: for this to, you know, to reaffirm the sense of

1295
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: belonging and the sense of interconnectedness, and yet we sit,

1296
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, alone on our devices in social media, struggling

1297
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: for just that, trying to trying to find some outside validation,

1298
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,680
Speaker 1: trying to belong, trying to connect with these people in

1299
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: this in this sort of and in this world of

1300
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: noise and of sort of honestly more disconnected social media.

1301
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 1: You've spoken a lot about love being the foundation of reality,

1302
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:34,799
Speaker 1: and I'm curious, how do you see that truth showing

1303
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 1: up in you know, in your work today, and so

1304
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 1: when you more specifically, when you write and speak and

1305
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: connect with people, what would you have to offer anybody

1306
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: who's still living in that sort of materialistic science, the skeptic,

1307
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 1: the ones who maybe even our feared death or you know,

1308
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 1: or struggling with grief and loss. What would you have

1309
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 1: to say to them? What? What's something you can offer

1310
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,879
Speaker 1: to those people who are still in that sort of cynical,

1311
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,560
Speaker 1: skeptical or even fear based mindset.

1312
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:05,879
Speaker 2: Well, what I would recommend is take a little vacation

1313
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 2: from your ego, and by that just very practical and

1314
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 2: simple tool is to take fifteen or twenty minutes a

1315
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:19,520
Speaker 2: day just out in nature, you know, kind of walking, meditation,

1316
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,719
Speaker 2: just putting the ego in all of its little fear

1317
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 2: and anxiety and kind of addiction tools out of your

1318
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,720
Speaker 2: mind and just let yourself bathe in that kind of

1319
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:32,599
Speaker 2: pure consciousness in the moment, in the breath and breathing,

1320
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,599
Speaker 2: you know. Adopt a program of meditation where you spend

1321
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 2: fifteen or twenty minutes a day. I try to spend

1322
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 2: an hour to a day when I can meditating. And

1323
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 2: if you need a tool to help you quiet that

1324
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 2: little monkey mind voice of the annoying roommate in your head,

1325
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 2: I would recommend sacred acoustics form of binaoral beats. The

1326
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,000
Speaker 2: reason I was attracted to it about two years after

1327
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 2: my coma, I read an article in Scientific American by

1328
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,560
Speaker 2: Gerald Auster from the early seventies on binaural beats in

1329
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 2: the brain, and I realized that the anatomy and physiology

1330
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:13,639
Speaker 2: was there to allow us to basically escape from the

1331
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 2: kind of slavery of the ego mind in our daily

1332
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 2: existence in these material bodies. And it does it by

1333
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 2: oscillating a circuit in the lower brain stem in what's

1334
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 2: called the superior olivary nucleus. And we talk about a

1335
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 2: lot of this in our book Living in a Mindful Universe,

1336
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 2: if you want to learn a lot more about the

1337
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 2: physiology and the anatomy of that kind of meditation. So

1338
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 2: take a little time out for yourself in the form

1339
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 2: of meditation, centering, prayer, going within. And I think the

1340
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 2: more people can do that kind of thing to escape

1341
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 2: the kind of slavery of the ego mind and its

1342
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 2: demands on us and start realizing that they're much more

1343
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 2: positive and optimistic ways forward that involve engaging our kind

1344
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 2: of higher soul and our higher self, but doing it

1345
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 2: in a way that we can kind of open our

1346
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 2: minds to the hints and suggestions from the universe about

1347
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 2: what are the best steps forward to achieve that life

1348
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 2: that we came here to achieve. Certainly, if you're facing

1349
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 2: eternal diagnosis, facing potential death of a loved one, or

1350
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 2: recent death of a loved.

1351
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: One, etc.

1352
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 2: These kinds of tools can be amazingly powerful. Because one

1353
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 2: thing that I heard very often in my early talks

1354
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: about this even before Proof of Heaven came out, because

1355
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:33,599
Speaker 2: I started giving talks about two years before that book

1356
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,679
Speaker 2: came out and was getting a lot of feedback from people,

1357
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 2: and people would often come up to me after my

1358
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 2: talks and say I've never told anybody this before, but

1359
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 2: and then they'd share a story with me that would

1360
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: change the world. It was be an after death communication

1361
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 2: from a loved one who had passed or maybe during

1362
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 2: their time of passage a past life memory something like

1363
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 2: that that been a sense and then lined everything up

1364
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 2: for them. They're tremendous insights that we can glean, you know,

1365
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 2: in that kind of unexpected realm of the subconscious and

1366
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 2: the deep conscious state of meditation, and that's where I

1367
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 2: think people can start getting a lot of benefit. But

1368
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,519
Speaker 2: never forget that the actual change we bring to the

1369
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:16,599
Speaker 2: world is what we do living these lives in these bodies.

1370
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,679
Speaker 2: So it's not just a game of you know, going

1371
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:22,639
Speaker 2: into a deep meditative state and gleaning some answers from

1372
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 2: the universe, but really putting that to work in terms

1373
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 2: of how we live these lives and the choices we

1374
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 2: make and where we choose to put our energy in

1375
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 2: terms of helping the higher good in various forms that

1376
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 2: we all can do. So to me, it's a very

1377
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 2: kind of optimistic and kind of beautiful pathway forward that

1378
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:48,759
Speaker 2: brings a lot of positive growth and certainly helping other people,

1379
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 2: never wears out. It's a positive energy for what it

1380
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 2: brings back to us. And really, in many ways, the

1381
01:18:57,400 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 2: universe gives back to us whatever we put out to it.

1382
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:05,080
Speaker 2: So the more I can serve as a conduit for love, kindness, compassion,

1383
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 2: occasional forgiveness when necessary, and never forgetting gratitude, the more

1384
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 2: I can help other souls to optimize their kind of

1385
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 2: life and growth and contribution to the evolution of consciousness itself,

1386
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 2: which I think is ultimately what is going on here.

1387
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 1: We talked to Aaron Ralston, who's the subject of that

1388
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:29,559
Speaker 1: film one hundred and twenty seven Hours, who had Conary

1389
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 1: Canyon and had to cut his own arm off to survive.

1390
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: And he had so much to say because he had

1391
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:36,720
Speaker 1: all of these experiences that happened to him in the

1392
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: cave and all this gratitude that came to him and

1393
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 1: helped him to survive miraculously after six days without water

1394
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 1: or food or amazing. It's an amazing story. And he

1395
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: said this, he said, you cannot hold despair and gratitude

1396
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:53,520
Speaker 1: in your heart at the same time, right, It's impossible.

1397
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 1: And Martha Back also reflects that too. She talks a

1398
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 1: lot about that. But it's but yeah, I guess you know.

1399
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you would like to add

1400
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 1: to the conversation today before?

1401
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,599
Speaker 2: The main thing is that no soul left behind. This

1402
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,040
Speaker 2: is a major revolution and understanding it's going to have

1403
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:16,679
Speaker 2: a tremendous impact on humanity at large. We've taken huge

1404
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 2: steps backwards in the last few years with warfare and

1405
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 2: with violence and with disregarding the rights of human beings.

1406
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 2: It's time to reverse every bit of that and start

1407
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 2: acknowledging this much deeper lesson that's coming to the fore

1408
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 2: about the nature of our existence and how we're really

1409
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 2: all in this together. And to hurt another is to

1410
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:39,320
Speaker 2: hurt oneself, and no soul should be left out of

1411
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:43,160
Speaker 2: this transformation, and we can all contribute to the higher

1412
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 2: good moving forward, and it's very rewarding for the individual soul.

1413
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 2: So I highly recommend to your audience get on board

1414
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 2: with this, start learning more about these kinds of cases

1415
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 2: as kind of literature. People can certainly keep up with

1416
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:01,600
Speaker 2: what I've done At Ebenlexander dot com. There's a recommended

1417
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 2: reading list there, a lot with hot links to the

1418
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 2: scientific papers involved. There's also an FAQ page that I

1419
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 2: think is very important for the kind of public perception

1420
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 2: of my contributions to all this. And then also thirty

1421
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 2: three day Journey. Right there at Eben Alexander dot com

1422
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 2: there's a free thirty three day Drip email campaign that

1423
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 2: will get you right up to speed on every bit

1424
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:29,440
Speaker 2: of this quickly. It also contains four Sacred Acoustics meditations

1425
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 2: that come packaged with that free thirty three day journey.

1426
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 2: You don't have to spend a penny. It's a mint

1427
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 2: as a workbook to go along with our third book,

1428
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 2: Living in a Mind for Universe. But there's a huge

1429
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,759
Speaker 2: community that's formed up around this thirty three day journey

1430
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 2: from around the world. More than twelve thousand people have

1431
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 2: taken the course and they leave comments, and you'll be

1432
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 2: part of that community just by signing up for it,

1433
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 2: So get going.

1434
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:57,640
Speaker 1: No reason not too.

1435
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:00,879
Speaker 2: You'll learn a tremendous amount about yourself and nature, reality

1436
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 2: and our power of will to kind of determine our

1437
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 2: future as an unfold. These are all beautiful gifts for

1438
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 2: the individual soul.

1439
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 1: Well, I'll take this moment to say that I can't

1440
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:16,880
Speaker 1: thank you enough for coming on the show with us,

1441
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 1: your work, your books, and your spreading of your message

1442
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 1: and in the telling of your journey as well as

1443
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: your challenges to looking at it. You know, hopefully a

1444
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 1: new paradigm of understanding of us, of ourselves as not separate,

1445
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 1: as as interconnected and with the foundation of love. I

1446
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 1: can't thank you enough for your work and your time,

1447
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: especially with us today. Well my pleasure, Dan, and thanks

1448
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 1: so much for what you do to get this out

1449
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 1: to the world. It's high time and encourage people to

1450
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 1: just stay in touch with me through Eben Alexander dot com. Well,

1451
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: thanks for you to Dan, I appreciate you too. Thank

1452
01:22:52,560 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 1: you so much. Next time I'm alive again, we meet

1453
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: Alien Lloyd. Her story highlights persevering in the shadow of

1454
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 1: generational trauma and a legacy of suicide and her family.

1455
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:14,839
Speaker 1: This is the ultimate betrayal.

1456
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:17,439
Speaker 3: He sent me over the edge and sent me right

1457
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 3: down the whole like shoot where I almost became the

1458
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 3: third kid that off themselves. I didn't recognize trauma on

1459
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:27,839
Speaker 3: my own family, my trauma.

1460
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:36,160
Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent die

1461
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelba. Music by Ben Lovett, Additional

1462
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick

1463
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional

1464
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima El Kali and

1465
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 1: Nuams Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, Gerhardtslovitchka, Brent Die

1466
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 1: and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben Love and Alexander Rodriguez.

1467
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Dan Bush. Alive Again is a production

1468
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 1: of IRT Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If you have a

1469
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:12,880
Speaker 1: transformative near death experience to share, we'd love to hear

1470
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: your story. Please email us at Alive Again Project at

1471
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's a l I v e A

1472
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 1: g A I N p R O j E C

1473
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:59,719
Speaker 1: T at gmail dot com.