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Speaker 1: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb

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Speaker 1: and by the word of their testimony. And they loved

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Speaker 1: not their lives unto the death revelation twelve eleven. Lord,

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Speaker 1: you have made me strong and courageous. You have made

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Speaker 1: me a warrior, an overcomer. I am not afraid to

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Speaker 1: step out in faith. I am not afraid to take risks.

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Speaker 1: I am willing to put it all on the line.

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Speaker 1: Everything I am and everything I have for you. This

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Speaker 1: is my testimony. My hope is in you, Jesus, because

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Speaker 1: by your blood you have saved me and set me free.

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Speaker 1: My trust is in you, and you are all I need.

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Speaker 1: I don't listen to the doubters or the haters or

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Speaker 1: the enemy of my soul. To day, I listen to you.

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Speaker 1: You say you are with me always and that I

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Speaker 1: will be victorious in you. You've given me big dreams,

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Speaker 1: not small ones. You've given me supernatural gifts and talents,

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Speaker 1: not just natural gifts. You've given me extraordinary wisdom and skill,

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Speaker 1: and ability and creativity. There's nothing ordinary about me. I'm

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Speaker 1: a somebody, not a nobody. I am called to make

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Speaker 1: a difference in the lives of my family, my friends,

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Speaker 1: the people in my workplace, and in my community. I'm

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Speaker 1: called to make a difference in the wider world for

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Speaker 1: your honor and glory. Oh Holy Spirit, annoint me to

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Speaker 1: day and empower me to succeed. Let your light shine

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Speaker 1: brightly through me. In Jesus name, I pray. Amen. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for listening to today's daily prayer. For more inspiration

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Speaker 1: and an incredible message from our feature pastor, stay tuned

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Speaker 1: to Pray dot COM's Sunday service.

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Speaker 2: Heydaron, Welcome to Love and Truth Network. We are excited

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Speaker 2: to engage with each of you and our Prey dot

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Speaker 2: com audience. Whether you're checking out our content for the

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Speaker 2: very first time or you're a regular on our channel.

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Speaker 2: It's our goal to bless, challenge, and equip local churches

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Speaker 2: and christ followers across the United States and beyond. Through

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Speaker 2: discussion based interviews, you'll engage with challenging and often avoided

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Speaker 2: topics within the church, particularly related to God's design for sexuality,

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Speaker 2: vulnerable and authentic relationships, and biblical identity. This week's broadcast

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Speaker 2: begins right now. Well, Hey there, pray dot com family.

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Speaker 2: We are so glad that you've tuned in to Pray

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Speaker 2: Radio today we have the distinct privilege as Love and

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Speaker 2: Truth Network. I'm Gary Ingram, the executive director for Love

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Speaker 2: and Truth Network, and we are so privileged to be

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Speaker 2: able to host our program and loop it all across

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Speaker 2: the platform the radio app today for the entire day

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Speaker 2: of Sunday, and it is November sixteenth, and we've been

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Speaker 2: planning this for a while now and excited that you're here.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're relatively new kids on the block when

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Speaker 2: it comes to pray dot Com. We joined the app

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Speaker 2: back in July, very excited about that. We first learned

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Speaker 2: about the opportunity for this about a year ago or

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Speaker 2: so and have been planning as a ministry on how

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Speaker 2: we might be able to participate and partner with Pray

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Speaker 2: Love Them and love the work that they're doing to

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Speaker 2: get the message of the Gospel out to encourage not

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Speaker 2: only believers, but also obviously to be evangelizing and encouraging

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Speaker 2: those who do not yet know Jesus. And so we're

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Speaker 2: about that work as well. We are specifically about working

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Speaker 2: with Christians and pastors and leaders, really working with leaders

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Speaker 2: to help them bring their local churches across the country

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Speaker 2: into a place of genuine vulnerability where people who are

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Speaker 2: struggling with sexual brokenness, with relational brokenness, with even identity

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Speaker 2: confusion can find help and hope in the Church. We

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Speaker 2: believe that the Church is the one organism, the one

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Speaker 2: institution on the planet that has real answers for these issues.

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Speaker 2: And because we have answers, because our God is the

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Speaker 2: God who designed us. He's the God who made us,

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Speaker 2: and humanity was his idea. Sexuality was his idea, making

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Speaker 2: us male and female in his image, our sense of identity,

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Speaker 2: that was his idea, and so nobody has answers the

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Speaker 2: way he has answers, and the way that He's given

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Speaker 2: us as the body of Christ, as his representatives, as

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Speaker 2: his ambassadors to go into the world and to go

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Speaker 2: into hard places and sometimes just right in the middle

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Speaker 2: of our own families. We need to be dealing with

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Speaker 2: these issues because the culture is the culture the world.

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Speaker 2: Our enemy is doing everything that can be possibly be

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Speaker 2: done to really come against the image of God in

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Speaker 2: us as male and female. I think that anybody paying

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Speaker 2: attention to that, who's spiritually attuned at all can understand

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Speaker 2: that that's true. In this day, So as we have

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Speaker 2: this opportunity to share with you today we're so pleased

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Speaker 2: that you're here. I hope that the stories that we

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Speaker 2: want to share. I love learning through story as well

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Speaker 2: as sitting down and diving into theology and apologetics. But

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Speaker 2: there's something about story that I think can really warm

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Speaker 2: and soften the hearts of people who may otherwise be

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Speaker 2: directed toward kind of hard theological facts and truth, and

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Speaker 2: of course that's the foundation we need. That foundation. We

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Speaker 2: named our ministry Love and Truth Network, because we really

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Speaker 2: understand that the moment you take truth out of love,

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Speaker 2: it's no longer love. The world calls it love, the

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Speaker 2: world says love is love, says love your neighbor take

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Speaker 2: and completely out of context. But we understand that genuine

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Speaker 2: love desires the best for another person. And oftentimes I've

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Speaker 2: had people in my life who loved me well that

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Speaker 2: would not affirm the things I wanted them to affirm

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Speaker 2: because they knew it was not the best thing for me,

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Speaker 2: because they knew the one who designed us, They knew

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Speaker 2: the God that I had not yet given my life

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Speaker 2: to or surrendered my life to, and they couldn't offer,

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Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote love the way the world wants

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Speaker 2: to offer it because they knew that God had something

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Speaker 2: so much better for me, and so by holding out

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Speaker 2: and walking with me and never rejecting me, never turning

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Speaker 2: their back on me, but also not giving me what

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Speaker 2: I wanted at the time, which was to go in

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Speaker 2: a direction that would have been destructive for me, they

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Speaker 2: were loving me well. And so those are just some

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Speaker 2: of the things we want to talk about today. But

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Speaker 2: let me just back up and share a little bit

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Speaker 2: about our ministry. Some of you may never have heard

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Speaker 2: of us before. We are a ministry that's been around

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Speaker 2: for about twelve years or so. And again we'll get

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Speaker 2: into some of our stories later on, but as far

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Speaker 2: as the ministry goes, we established Love and Truth Network

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Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen. My wife Melissa and I established that

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Speaker 2: this ministry and we began just really teaching about how

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Speaker 2: the local church helped us tremendously. And we know hundreds

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Speaker 2: and hundreds of people personally who've come out of all

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Speaker 2: kinds of sexual sin, pornography, addiction, adultery, fornication, LGBTQ issues,

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Speaker 2: identity confusion, and have surrendered their lives to Jesus and

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Speaker 2: have been looking to him to be the author of

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Speaker 2: their faith, looking to him to be the one, the

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Speaker 2: shepherd of their soul who leads them and guides them.

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Speaker 2: And and it's a bumpy road. I mean, it can

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Speaker 2: be a really tough thing, as I experienced coming out

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Speaker 2: of the LGBT world and choosing Jesus. And many churches

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Speaker 2: are not standing there with their arms wide open to

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Speaker 2: take folks like us that are pretty rough and pretty

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Speaker 2: difficult and pretty emotionally immature, etc. And welcome them in

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Speaker 2: to begin discipling us. Thankfully, there are some churches, and

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Speaker 2: I think those churches are growing. I think there's more

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Speaker 2: and more people who are interesting did Unfortunately, there's also

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Speaker 2: many churches now that have just risen up, I mean

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Speaker 2: in the numbers that have just risen up to say, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're just going to bless you right where you're at.

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Speaker 2: You're a gay Christian, you're living that out. There's no problem.

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Speaker 2: You can have your boyfriend, you can have your husband,

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Speaker 2: you can have your wife as a woman or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and God is totally fine with that. Well, that is

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Speaker 2: a lie. That is not what the scriptures teach at all.

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Speaker 2: And then there's also other groups that would say, well,

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Speaker 2: we don't practice homosexuality, we don't sleep with someone at

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Speaker 2: the same sex. That's our desire, and that's how we

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Speaker 2: identify ourselves as gay Christians, for example, but we don't

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Speaker 2: practice it. But we are going to insist on being

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Speaker 2: known by our identity. And they embrace an identity that

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Speaker 2: combines their Christianity with their fleshly desires. And so they're

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Speaker 2: combining with their Christianity whatever monik or they desire, whether

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Speaker 2: it's homosexual or not homosexuality, but gay Christian, trans Christian, queer,

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Speaker 2: Christian fill in the right. But all of those things

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Speaker 2: are things that if we were to act on, would

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Speaker 2: be sin. And somehow people think that it's okay to

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Speaker 2: hyphenate that to our Christian experience and say this is

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Speaker 2: who I am. And so also as we talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about our ministry, don't misunderstand we are huge

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Speaker 2: proponents of sharing more of our story than most Christians

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Speaker 2: are willing to. We are huge proponents of finding a

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Speaker 2: band of brothers, a band of sisters. We believe that

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Speaker 2: the Bible teaches that we all need to be sharing

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Speaker 2: our sin struggles with one another, sharing our heartaches with

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Speaker 2: one another, being fully known so that we can actually

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Speaker 2: be fully loved. And also in that being fully known

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Speaker 2: there's a way in which we get filled up in

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Speaker 2: relationship that starts to heal some of the places where

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Speaker 2: we've been wounded over time from childhood, from negative experiences.

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Speaker 2: And also when people are relationally full, it is much

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Speaker 2: much easier to say no to sin, whatever that sin

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Speaker 2: may be, but especially sexual sin. Sexual sin mix better

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Speaker 2: than anything else, mimics authentic intimacy, but it's not authentic intimacy.

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Speaker 2: It's a lie, it's a counterfeit, but it looks like

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Speaker 2: it, it kind of feels like it, and when we give

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Speaker 2: ourselves over to it, it becomes kind of the microwave option,

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Speaker 2: the quick fix option, whatever that may be, whether it's

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Speaker 2: pornography and masturbation or hookup or whatever the thing is,

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Speaker 2: it becomes the quick fix solution for the much much

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Speaker 2: harder work of building relationship and building intimacy that is

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Speaker 2: healthy and life giving and nurturing to us and we

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Speaker 2: to that other person. And so we're big proponents of

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Speaker 2: bands of brothers and bands of sisters, and that we

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Speaker 2: believe every son of God, every daughter of God needs

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Speaker 2: three or four others of their own sex that they're

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Speaker 2: doing life with, that they're getting real with and they're

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Speaker 2: just they're walking together in this journey. They're encouraging one another.

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Speaker 2: And so that is a lot of what our ministry

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Speaker 2: is about. But our ministry is not really oriented toward

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Speaker 2: the actual individuals struggler. We have places on our website

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Speaker 2: for those folks. Again, that's what I certainly was, and

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Speaker 2: I think all of us in some ways we all struggle, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we all struggle with sin, We all struggle

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Speaker 2: with a variety of issues, not just one or two.

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Speaker 2: But in that what we believe the way we can

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Speaker 2: believe that God has called us to be most effective

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Speaker 2: is to equip pastors and leaders and local churches to

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Speaker 2: do the work that frankly the church should be doing.

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Speaker 2: And so we do have individuals we work with. We

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Speaker 2: do have a friends and family area of our website

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Speaker 2: and of our ministry where we pray with moms and

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Speaker 2: dads and certainly we listen to them and let them share,

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Speaker 2: and even have some friends and family groups going as well,

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Speaker 2: and also some bands of brothers, bands of sisters as

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Speaker 2: well that we're promoting. But we want to help churches

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Speaker 2: develop these groups within their own churches. We want to

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Speaker 2: help pastors know how to really train and equip their staff,

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Speaker 2: to train and equip others within the body of Christ

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Speaker 2: to do the kind of work that frankly all of

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Speaker 2: us need to be able to do. I mean, who

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Speaker 2: listening to this doesn't know somebody that's a part of

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Speaker 2: the LGBT world. Who in this doesn't know somebody. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we'd have to be living under a rock if we

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Speaker 2: don't know people who are dealing with pretty deep sexual brokenness.

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Speaker 2: And the truth is we're pretty good at hiding that

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Speaker 2: as well, and so sometimes for years. I just heard

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Speaker 2: of somebody a little while ago who's been in Christian

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Speaker 2: leadership and has been doing this for years, is married

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Speaker 2: and seemingly has this amazing life, and it was just

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Speaker 2: exposed a little while ago that know, in fact, there's

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Speaker 2: this double life that this person is living, even as

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Speaker 2: a Christian leader. But they're looking for help and support.

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Speaker 2: They're admitting immediately that yes, I've had a problem. I've

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Speaker 2: had a problem for a long time. I really do

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Speaker 2: want help and support. That's not always the case. Many

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Speaker 2: times people will lie about what they're wrestling with, even

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Speaker 2: as Christian leaders will lie about that and try to

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Speaker 2: somehow get out from under and somehow shift away from

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Speaker 2: or be able to avoid the issues that will be

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Speaker 2: coming of losing their job potentially, or even issues in

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Speaker 2: their own marriages or families, etc. So our ministry is

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Speaker 2: primarily about equipping local churches and pastors and helping them

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Speaker 2: know how to navigate these issues and their own churches

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Speaker 2: in ways that are life giving, in ways that are effective,

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Speaker 2: and in ways that align with what the scriptures teach. Now,

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Speaker 2: having said all that, about introducing our ministry to those

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Speaker 2: of you who have tuned in on the Prey dot

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Speaker 2: Com radio app and you're hearing this message, and it's

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Speaker 2: a message it'll be looping throughout the entire day. We're

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Speaker 2: excited to be with you and we want to really

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Speaker 2: encourage you. We want to give you an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: hear my story, to hear the story of others that

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Speaker 2: God has ministered to, has blessed, has drawn out of

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Speaker 2: sexual brokenness, relational brokenness, even some who have dealt with

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Speaker 2: identity issues and confusion. The truth is the power of

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Speaker 2: Christ and the heart of Christ to transform lives is

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Speaker 2: just as alive today as it is ever been. And

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Speaker 2: we want you to know that there is hope, there's

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Speaker 2: hope for you, if you're the struggler, if you're the

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Speaker 2: person who feels like you are just bound in chains

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Speaker 2: and you have this issue of sexual sin or brokenness,

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Speaker 2: or maybe it's not even sexual. I mean, our ministry

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Speaker 2: primarily is dealing in the realm of restoring relational and

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Speaker 2: sexual wholeness. But oftentimes it's a food issue, it's some

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Speaker 2: kind of other substance abuse of alcohol or drugs. Many

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Speaker 2: times it's a combination of all of it. It's food,

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Speaker 2: it's drugs, it's alcohol, it's sexual sin, it's a whole

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Speaker 2: cluster of things. And I think when we are experiencing

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Speaker 2: this kind of whole cluster effect, it can feel so

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Speaker 2: discouraging to us that we can feel like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: and this is where I was once. The gospel works

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Speaker 2: for everybody else that seems to lean into it. I

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Speaker 2: see other people being transformed, but I feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: just not moving forward. I feel like I'm going backward.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm getting even more stuck, and I

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Speaker 2: don't feel like God is lifting a finger to help me.

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Speaker 2: That's where I was at one time. But what I've

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Speaker 2: realized is now many many years later, is that God

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Speaker 2: works through his body. Yes, of course he does things directly,

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Speaker 2: but he is primarily about discipleship through the body of Christ.

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Speaker 2: He's about discipleship through his sons and his daughters in

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Speaker 2: the lives of others. He comforts us with the comfort

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Speaker 2: that we of ourselves have received from God, as Paul

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Speaker 2: talks about in collotions. So we're excited to be with

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Speaker 2: you today. We're going to lean into hear my story

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Speaker 2: here in just a moment, and I hope that you

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Speaker 2: can enter into this story and the other stories are

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Speaker 2: going to be shared today with you the testimonies to

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Speaker 2: listen to those stories with one ear in a sense,

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Speaker 2: but also to allow the Lord to minister to you

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Speaker 2: in your own story. What is it that he still

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Speaker 2: wants to free you from? What are those things that

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Speaker 2: still need to come under the lordship of Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 2: What are those things that you know are bound up

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Speaker 2: in your heart, Whether it's the quick and easy access

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Speaker 2: to pornography, and of course there's all kinds of variety

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Speaker 2: of pornography, and the most kind of vile things in

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Speaker 2: the world are only a couple clicks away. And it's

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Speaker 2: not just that people are wrestling with pornography but it's

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Speaker 2: also the genre, the kind of pornography, through the darkness

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Speaker 2: around the pornography as well. And I just want to

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Speaker 2: tell you that Jesus is here, and he loves you,

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Speaker 2: he sees you, he cares about you, and he wants

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Speaker 2: to give you hope and raw you out of those

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Speaker 2: broken places. But you need the body of Christ to

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Speaker 2: walk alongside. You may need some really good licensed Christian

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Speaker 2: counseling as well. Sometimes that could be pastoral counseling, pastoral care,

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Speaker 2: that may be biblical counseling. But I also think there's

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Speaker 2: a tremendous place. My wife's a licensed Christian counselor and

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Speaker 2: she does EMDR as well as internal family systems, and

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Speaker 2: so it can be really important. If you're dealing with

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Speaker 2: trauma or you've had trauma, it can be really important

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Speaker 2: to work with a Christian counselor that is well equipped

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Speaker 2: in those areas. And ideally I want to work personally,

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Speaker 2: I would want to work with a Christian counselor who

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Speaker 2: also understands listening prayer in or healing prayer and taking

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Speaker 2: these things to Jesus, not just talking about them or

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Speaker 2: only practicing kind of a secular model of counseling or

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Speaker 2: freeing up areas of trauma. I also love it when

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Speaker 2: counselors know how to employ those tools but also understand

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Speaker 2: how to bring us and help posture us before the

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Speaker 2: Lord in a way that we're giving those things to him,

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Speaker 2: and we also are receiving his cleansing and his forgiveness

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Speaker 2: and his empowerment to live a different life. So bless

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Speaker 2: you as you go into the rest of our time

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Speaker 2: together today on this radio app And I truly am

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Speaker 2: hoping and praying that this will be a blessing.

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Speaker 3: You.

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Speaker 2: Actually, let me just pray right now, Jesus. I just

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Speaker 2: lift up my brothers and sisters to you. I lift

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Speaker 2: up those who do know you but are really wrestling

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Speaker 2: and struggling, those that want to find freedom. And I

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Speaker 2: also am lifting up those who have loved ones who

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Speaker 2: are in the weeds, loved ones who are completely swallowed

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Speaker 2: up in the world's perspective about sex and identity and

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Speaker 2: just kind of doing whatever feels good or natural is

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Speaker 2: the way that we should be living our lives, and

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Speaker 2: we're supposed to as Christians. Just bless that and not

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Speaker 2: say anything about what the scriptures actually teach. Lord. I

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Speaker 2: lift up both groups of people, those that are struggling

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Speaker 2: and feel like they're failing and they're bound up in

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Speaker 2: all kinds of sin and just feel like they're in

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Speaker 2: a prison, as well as those who have loved ones

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Speaker 2: who are in those places. God, I pray that you

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Speaker 2: would encourage both folks to know you, to love you,

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Speaker 2: to encourage them to just give them a glimmer even

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Speaker 2: of hope. Lord, today that maybe if you met with Gary,

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Speaker 2: if you met with Melissa, my wife, if you met

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Speaker 2: with some other friends that are going to be sharing

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Speaker 2: in the way that you did, then certainly you could

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Speaker 2: meet with me too. For certainly you could find me

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Speaker 2: where I'm at and could bring me out of the

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Speaker 2: mess that I'm in. Jesus, I pray that that would

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Speaker 2: be some of the hope that is given out today.

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Speaker 2: And I pray for church leaders that may be listening

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Speaker 2: in or those that forward this message to church leaders.

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Speaker 2: We are here because we want to equip you. We

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Speaker 2: are here because we know the power of God to

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Speaker 2: work through the local church to do powerful things that's

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Speaker 2: even beyond what can happen in the counseling office. We

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Speaker 2: need people within the body of Christ to be genuine

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Speaker 2: communities where things that may be talked about in the

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Speaker 2: counseling office can be worked out in everyday life with

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Speaker 2: friends and brothers and sisters in the body of Christ. So, Jesus,

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Speaker 2: I pray for those leaders that we be hearing this

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Speaker 2: message as well, that you would stir up their hearts,

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Speaker 2: both in terms of where their hearts themselves are compromised

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Speaker 2: and they know as a leader, Man, I am skating

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Speaker 2: on some thin ice. I'm living a double life, and

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Speaker 2: I hate what I'm doing, but I don't know how

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Speaker 2: to find the help that I need. I'm scared of

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Speaker 2: not of being exposed. Lord, I pray that you bring

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Speaker 2: those leaders out of hiding into the light to even

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Speaker 2: reach out to me, to reach out to our ministry.

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Speaker 2: But for those leaders, Lord that are not in that

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Speaker 2: situation and they just want to know how to pasture well,

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Speaker 2: love well. Would you bless them in this time as

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Speaker 2: they listen to these stories, God, would you bless them

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Speaker 2: to be able to get more equipped, to feel more

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Speaker 2: confident and more joyful in the power of Jesus to

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Speaker 2: set captives free. And this is what you do all

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Speaker 2: the time. This isn't unique. This is what you love

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Speaker 2: to do. And I pray that you would encourage these

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Speaker 2: leaders hearts and these strugglers' hearts, and these moms and

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Speaker 2: dads and loved ones that want to know how to

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Speaker 2: reach their sons and daughters and friends and loved ones

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Speaker 2: who are not doing well. Higher Gamut, Lord, I pray

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Speaker 2: for in Jesus' name Amen. I lived this duplicitous, confused

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Speaker 2: life as a kid wrestling with same sex attraction and

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Speaker 2: confusion about who I was, and then as a gay

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Speaker 2: identified man. It wasn't until getting to a place of

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Speaker 2: being broken and coming to a place of surrender that

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Speaker 2: was really my true salvation. I grew up in a

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Speaker 2: Christian home. I lived as a religious kid for some time.

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Speaker 2: I have no doubt whatsoever that even though I strung

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Speaker 2: the right words together in a salvation prayer multiple times

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Speaker 2: as a kid, I did not have any desire to

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Speaker 2: be surrendered to God. I didn't want to go to Hell,

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Speaker 2: and so that was really my motivation was fire insurance.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't want to really be surrendered to him.

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Speaker 2: I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't like him all that much, frankly, but the

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Speaker 2: alternative didn't seem very good. You know in terms of hell.

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Speaker 2: So I had that dichotomy of actually not liking God

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Speaker 2: very much and at the same time feeling like, well, dang,

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Speaker 2: this is what you're supposed to do. My sexualization happened

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Speaker 2: at such an early age that I don't even recall

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Speaker 2: that not being a part of my experience, really being

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Speaker 2: exposed to pornography at the age of five or six,

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Speaker 2: being exposed to older boys sexual behavior. I was a

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Speaker 2: sex addict. I mean I wouldn't have referred to it

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Speaker 2: at that time. I would have known that, but a

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Speaker 2: porn addict. I was trying to do the right things,

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Speaker 2: not knowing what I was doing wrong exactly in terms

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Speaker 2: of like getting it. As far as a Christian, what

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Speaker 2: is that? And why do I have such struggles with addiction?

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Speaker 2: It was years of living out that religious life and

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Speaker 2: then struggling with all the stuff that I was struggling

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Speaker 2: with myself and praying and asking God to help and

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Speaker 2: feeling like He wasn't doing anything to help me. What

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Speaker 2: brought me to Christ really was recognizing, look, I'm nothing

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Speaker 2: without you. It wasn't until leading Bible College and then

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Speaker 2: fully embracing this other area of life as a gay

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Speaker 2: identified man and living in that world for quite a

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Speaker 2: long time. And this looked like in the beginning, like

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Speaker 2: these were my people. It looked like, Wow, I finally

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Speaker 2: found community. I finally found where I fit in. And

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Speaker 2: it didn't take that long, that many months, really a

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Speaker 2: couple of years, whatever it was, to recognize this is

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Speaker 2: defiling to me. It's defiling to the people that I've

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Speaker 2: been with sexually and relationally. It isn't leading to life

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Speaker 2: and joy and prosperity, and that when I say prosperity,

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Speaker 2: I'm not even just talking about financial just prosperity in general.

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Speaker 2: It's not leading to health. And so I did just

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Speaker 2: get to a place where I'm like, Jesus is the

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Speaker 2: only way coming to a place of simply saying, Okay, Jesus,

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Speaker 2: I've made a reck of my life. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you want me or not, if you want

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Speaker 2: what's left to me, but you can have it. That

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Speaker 2: was really my surrender in my true salvation. After that,

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Speaker 2: there was just a witness of the spirit and a

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Speaker 2: hunger for the Word that I'd never had before, hunger

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Speaker 2: to follow him and longing to know him. All of

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Speaker 2: those things were new. Everything I'd done prior to that

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Speaker 2: was really out of guilt or trying to overcome something.

434
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 2: I was trying to kind of clean up myself and

435
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: do it through some sort of religious veneer. I mean,

436
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 2: this Holy Spirit moved into my life in a way

437
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: that I had never experienced before. The Lord was just

438
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: rejuvenating me. I was reading the Word all the time.

439
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 2: And so these couple of housemates, roommates that I was

440
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: living with, I mean, they literally one of them said,

441
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 2: I feel like you're demon possessed. You were so different.

442
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 2: Why don't you want to go drink anymore? Why are

443
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: you always reading your Bible?

444
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 3: I mean?

445
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: And it was just so funny that if I was

446
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: off in the weeds, it was definitely before and they're

447
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: seeing this new life and they're totally misinterpreting it is

448
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: something seriously wrong with you. And actually, for the first

449
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: time and probably in my life, there was something seriously

450
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 2: right with me. One of the big mistakes that well

451
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: meaning people make in the church is that, oh, if

452
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: you're talking with homosexuality, whether you're a man or a

453
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 2: woman or whatever, you just need to make the right

454
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 2: girl if you're a guy, and the right guy if

455
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: you're a girl, and it'll all work out. I did

456
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 2: get into marriage way too soon, and I did it

457
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 2: for honestly, all the wrong reasons and no counseling soever

458
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: on her part of my part. I told her all

459
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: of my stories. She knew the whole thing. She shared

460
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: her story with me, and I by far had the

461
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: greater degree of brokenness, no doubt about that. Well, several

462
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 2: years in, she really felt like, Yeah, I don't love

463
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: you that much anymore. I just want something else. I

464
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: want someone else. We started doing some serious counseling with

465
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 2: our pastor, and he my eyes were open to a

466
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: lot of stuff that I was doing or not doing

467
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: that was really hurtful in the relationship. And I took

468
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 2: it seriously and I really began to change, and she

469
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: acknowledged that she's like everything that I sort of my

470
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: list of things. I see you changing in all these regards,

471
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: but I still want a divorce. And so I was

472
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 2: totally devastated about that. I mean, it was just an

473
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: agonizing year. And then when she fell for divorce, I

474
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 2: wound up moving from Texas, where we were at the time,

475
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: back to New York. Now I'm a Christian, but now

476
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: I'm really pissed off at God. I feel like you

477
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: could have done more. Why didn't you do more? I

478
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: actually went back into homosexuality, and this time it was

479
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: a whole different experience creation in Christ. But I'm living

480
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: like my old self, and there was a massive battle.

481
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: It was miserable. I became very addicted to my old

482
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: way of living, but at the same time I hated

483
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 2: what I was doing. That ensued for several years. It

484
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: was in my thirties where God brought me into this

485
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: community of a solid enough church, men that were whole enough,

486
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: not perfect by a long shop, but whole enough that

487
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: He really began to start putting muscle on the skeleton

488
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: of my masculinity. This whole nonsense about pray the gay

489
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: away is just a really denigrating, ugly term that minimizes,

490
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: first the value of prayer, and it minimizes the other

491
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: means of grace that God gives us, discipleship, community, you know,

492
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: walking together, being in the Word, following after him, doing

493
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: what Jesus said in terms of if you want to

494
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: be my disciple, you need to and yourself take up

495
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: your cross and follow after me. I was a husk

496
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: of a man. I look like a man on the outside.

497
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: I certainly was a biological man, I was created to

498
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 2: be a man, but inwardly, in terms of masculinity, I

499
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: felt like just a little wisp of nothing. There were

500
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: so many years of brokenness and rejection by my own gender.

501
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 2: There's this mixture of love, hate, erotic desire. It was

502
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 2: all this kind of mixture of powerful emotion, really, and

503
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: I needed to resolve a lot of that stuff. I

504
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: got to experience what it was like to have brothers

505
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: come alongside of me, knowing my story and not having

506
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 2: struggled with homosexuality or any of that stuff themselves. But

507
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: they loved me enough to be on this journey with me,

508
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 2: and they wanted me on this journey with them as

509
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: we were all pursuing Christ together. It was in that

510
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: place that God began to heal places I didn't even

511
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 2: know we're broken. I didn't, I had no concept for it.

512
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 2: Part of what I needed to learn. Surrender is really

513
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 2: rooted in choosing to believe, but when it comes to

514
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 2: actually repenting and pursuing, it's this cooperation with God as

515
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 2: opposed to this switch that we can flip on anytime

516
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: we feel like it. It was a struggle to get

517
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: out of that mess in the first place. But whenever

518
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: I would rebel and kind of go back into some

519
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: of those places, it was harder each time I began

520
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: to realize, look, this is good ground that's been gained.

521
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: I don't want to surrender this to the enemy again.

522
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: I don't want him getting a toe hold on my

523
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: life again. That is really connected also with the reality

524
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 2: of choosing to believe what's true, and belief not just

525
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: being an assent of the mind, but a choosing of

526
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 2: the will that connects with I think, the heart and

527
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: obviously faith. God brought a lot of healing into my

528
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: life over years, and as that began to get more healthy,

529
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: I wanted to share that and that's what led to

530
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: the relationship with Melissa. Melissa I've been married now for

531
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: almost fifteen years. We have two boys, ten and twelve

532
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: years old. What prepared me for that wasn't straining to

533
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: be heterosexual. That wasn't it at all. It was is

534
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: coming to a place of knowing that God had a

535
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: bigger plan and I needed to simply focus on my

536
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: relationship with God. God enters into a journey with us,

537
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: and we don't want a journey, we want the pill,

538
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: you know, and we have to wrestle with that, and

539
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: so oftentimes I think we go through a crisis of

540
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: faith some pretty dark places in coming to realize that

541
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: God isn't just going to give us the thing that

542
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: we want. He wants us to go on this journey

543
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 2: with him of deeper transformation in so many different areas

544
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: of life, not just the little narrow thing that we

545
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: want a lot of What motivated my wife and I

546
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: to found the ministry was recognizing what God brought us through,

547
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: and then having been a pastor for twelve years and

548
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: my wife Melissa, being a licensed professional counselor, we just

549
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: realized that the church does a lot of things well,

550
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: but it doesn't do a lot well when it comes

551
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: to addressing sexual brokenness or even sometimes relational brokenness. We

552
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: decided to start Love and Truth Network as a means

553
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: of helping to equip and be a blessing to the church.

554
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: We want to come alongside of leaders who simply want

555
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: to really effectively minister in these areas. What I grew

556
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: up in was a very legalistic and fundamentalist church that

557
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: was heavy on truth, but very light on compassion and

558
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: love and grace, and that wound up developing in me

559
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: is a sense that God is a slave master that

560
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: demands we love him. But then on the other hand,

561
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: what we have, I think, are churches that have reacted

562
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: and the pendulumust swung in the opposite direction. And so

563
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: now we have churches that seem to be really loving,

564
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: seem to be very affirming, and really blessing people and

565
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: all of that, but unfortunately, what they wind up doing

566
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: oftentimes is blessing people in their sin. That narrow way

567
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: is really the way that Christ calls us to, which

568
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: is the reason we named our ministry Love and Truth Network.

569
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: But once you pull truth out of love or love

570
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: out of truth, you lose both of those things. The

571
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: thing that I really love doing most is going out

572
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: and meeting with people who are leading churches and involved

573
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: in discipling other people. Oftentimes, what I find is they

574
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: themselves are dealing with a sexual addiction and oftentimes living

575
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: this miserable double life. We love to not only communicate

576
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: instruction and teaching, but we love to come back again

577
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: or incorporate and experiential learning for people where they see

578
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: a lot of the techniques that we talk about being

579
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: modeled and lived out. I think that the majority of

580
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: the time churches are programmed driven. While we hold the

581
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: reality that we need to bring programs into the church,

582
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: we also need to be recognizing what kind of environment

583
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: that we bring those programs into. Is our church vulnerable?

584
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: Do they demonstrate vulnerability in the way that they're willing

585
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: to be open about the struggles they have had and

586
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: that Jesus has brought them through for the sake of others,

587
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: for the glory of God. And even as we share

588
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: our own story, there's a way in which we get

589
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: more free as well. When you don't share anything. What's

590
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: modeled is that we've got it together. We immediately feel like, oh,

591
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: my goodness, if I'm going to fit in here, if

592
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to have any place here whatsoever, then I

593
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: have to act like I've got it together the way

594
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: everybody else does. And what we don't realize is most

595
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: people don't have it together either. But as they share,

596
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: the shame loses power over them. As they share, people

597
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: are encouraged and there's actually hope. Absolutely change can and

598
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: does happen. God is still calling us out of our lives,

599
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: out of our brokenness, no matter what those are. God

600
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: is still transforming lives. Well, thanks for listening to my story.

601
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: I hope that that was encouraging for you as you

602
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: listen to it. And some of it's pretty hard to hear,

603
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: I think, but for many who are wrestling with a

604
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: variety of issues of life, and you're feeling hopeless, You're

605
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: feeling abandoned, You're feeling lost, You're feeling like God is

606
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: not meeting you where you need him to. You've prayed

607
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: over and over again, and feel like rather than things

608
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: getting better, they're only getting worse. Rather than you being

609
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: drawn closer in to the heart of God and to transformation,

610
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: it feels like things are unraveling and everything is getting worse,

611
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: and the addiction is getting deeper, the compulsion is happening

612
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: more often. And I just want to tell you there's hope.

613
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: I've said it before and I will never cease to

614
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: say that there is hope for you. And again, God

615
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: sees you. And it's not just my story. I've mentioned

616
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: that we're going to have several friends sharing here today,

617
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: and my wife is also going to be sharing part

618
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: of her story as well. It's an edited version of

619
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: her story, but I want you to hear what it

620
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,239
Speaker 2: is like for what Melissa was going through. I want

621
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: you to be hearing today from a couple of us

622
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: as men and several women about their journey of restoring

623
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: relational and sexual wholeness. Again, this is we're presenting a

624
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: few different perspectives here. My friend Tom is going to

625
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: be coming up soon. He's never dealt with same sex

626
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: at time, action, always opposite sex attraction, and not just

627
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: sexual brokenness, but also just some really deep brokenness that

628
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 2: going into his adulthood, he really worked on building up

629
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: his body as a bodybuilder, as somebody that was a

630
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: bouncer at a bar, someone that would always lean into

631
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: and pursue physical fighting. And yet all through this time,

632
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 2: as he looks back now, he recognizes what a scared

633
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: little boy he was in a man's body, and in

634
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 2: a body that was pretty dominant and had no fear,

635
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 2: and yet inwardly there were a lot of things that

636
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: he was afraid of. He wasn't afraid of fighting, he

637
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: wasn't afraid of being aggressive, but he was afraid of

638
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: all of the unmet needs of his own heart. You'll

639
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: be hearing from him a little bit later. You'll be

640
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: hearing from our friend Laura Perry as well, and her

641
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: story of deep, deep gender dysphoria and the long journey

642
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: of coming to a place of surrendering her life to

643
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: Jesus and coming back into alignment with his will for

644
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: her life life as well. But right now I would

645
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: love for you to just take in from Melissa, my wife,

646
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: and what she's going to be sharing with you about

647
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: her story.

648
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 4: Early on, from maybe about seventh grade, I began to

649
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 4: believe a message that to be a woman meant to

650
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 4: be used and abused by men.

651
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 5: I was kind.

652
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 4: Of watching my mother, and I viewed her as weak, passive,

653
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 4: as a victim of my father, that she was trapped

654
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 4: in a bad marriage and she had no way out.

655
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 4: And I made a vow that I would never be

656
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 4: like my mother financially or emotionally dependent on a man.

657
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 4: I had everything going for me. I had good grades.

658
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 4: I was at a private university in DC studying international affairs,

659
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 4: and I had friends, a boyfriend now a fiance, and

660
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 4: I would get off the phone with him and I

661
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 4: would cry. And as a result of some of those relationships,

662
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 4: I began to question my sexuality. My sister was very

663
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 4: now conservative. When I summed up the courage to tell

664
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 4: her and my mom that I thought I was a lesbian.

665
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: They actually responded greatly. They responded in one of the

666
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 4: best ways that they could have, which was to say,

667
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 4: we don't believe that you are that way, and more importantly,

668
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 4: we don't believe that that's God's best for you, but

669
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 4: we love you anyway. So my senior year of college,

670
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 4: one of my closest friends was I believe a bit

671
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 4: frustrated about my my inaction in this area of my life,

672
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 4: just kind of confusion and questioning, and She's like, you

673
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 4: need to figure this out, and I'm going to help you.

674
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 4: So my friend took me to a local lesbian bar

675
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 4: to meet someone, and I did meet someone. I met

676
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 4: a grad student, and we picked up kind of right

677
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 4: from there and began dating and probably within a week

678
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 4: or two became pretty serious. And I didn't really know

679
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 4: her very well, but I was all in and the

680
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 4: first time that I kissed her, I felt so connected.

681
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 4: I did, and I really felt like this is what

682
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 4: I've been looking for my whole life. I had the

683
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 4: distinct impression when I was with her that I was

684
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 4: choosing to put Jesus in a corner. As soon as

685
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: I began to experience same sex attraction and I was

686
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 4: in this relationship with this woman, I began to feel convicted,

687
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 4: and I believe that that was the Holy Spirit drawing me,

688
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 4: saying this is a counterfeit, this is not who I've

689
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,959
Speaker 4: created you to be. And so when my girlfriend broke

690
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: up with me, I remember I was in the shower

691
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: and I felt as if my heart had been ripped

692
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 4: out of my chest, and I remember crying out to God, saying, God,

693
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 4: you have to help me.

694
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 5: And then a.

695
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 4: Couple days later, I heard about a workshop that they

696
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 4: were holding on sexual and relational wholeness, and they highlighted

697
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 4: the testimony of a man who had come out of

698
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 4: homosexuality and he was now married with I don't even

699
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 4: know several children, if not like six or nine, nine

700
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 4: children or something crazy. And I remember turning to my

701
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 4: sister bless her heart, and saying, I've got to go

702
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: hear this guy. And so as he was talking, I

703
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 4: was getting angry and all I could see was read

704
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 4: and so that was not going so well for me.

705
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 4: Then again, praise God, and it was God's grace. He

706
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 4: had a woman get up from his teen to share

707
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 4: her story of how she became involved with a woman,

708
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 4: and then she said, what changed my life forever. It's

709
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 4: what God used to reach me, she said. I realized

710
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 4: for the first time that just because I felt something

711
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 4: didn't make it right. I mean, that had been the

712
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 4: entire justification for my lesbian relationship. It felt so right

713
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 4: to be with her, and in that moment, God pierced

714
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 4: the deception that I had been living under that because

715
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 4: it felt right and it felt natural, that that meant

716
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 4: God had created me a lesbian basically, and I was

717
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: able to renounce that vow of self protection that I

718
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 4: was never going to be like my mom, and that

719
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 4: was amazing, and the Jesus showed up. And what was

720
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 4: so cool is that I didn't realize that when I

721
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 4: made that decision that I was blocking everyone out, including God.

722
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 4: And so in that prayer time, I was able to

723
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 4: choose Jesus to be my protection, and that wall that

724
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 4: he actually showed me fell down, and and then Jesus

725
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 4: came in to be my protection and and that was

726
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 4: a really a stone of remembrance. That day, I also

727
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 4: found a community of women who were honest about their

728
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: sexual struggles, who were honest about ways they had been

729
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 4: abused struggles with masturbation and fantasy, and that was really

730
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 4: really helpful for me. Right around that time that I

731
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 4: started my master's degree, I met Gary, my husband, and

732
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 4: we got acquainted, no big deal, and he was hanging

733
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 4: around with some other guys that were pretty cool and

734
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 4: and God was doing a work in me, and so

735
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 4: we began to to talk on the phone and to

736
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 4: communicate regularly, and that went on until so that was

737
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 4: in two thousand and five, and we obviously stay dating

738
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 4: until I graduated with my master's degree in counseling, and

739
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 4: then I needed to decide where I was going to

740
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 4: pursue my licensure hours and it was a really difficult

741
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 4: decision for me, but I remember God saying, Hey, the

742
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 4: ministry that you're working at that you think is such

743
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 4: a great fit. Well, that was my idea, your master's degree.

744
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 5: That was my idea. Oh and by the way, you're

745
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 5: my idea.

746
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 4: And it's like, okay, I've got to go like, there

747
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 4: is actually not one thing that I have a right

748
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 4: to hold on to. And so God really worked with

749
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: me to really take a risk and to move to

750
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 4: upstate New York. So that Gary and I could actually

751
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 4: be in the same area dating, and three weeks before

752
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 4: I moved, he proposed and I said yes, and we

753
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 4: were married in two thousand and seven.

754
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 5: And because of our shared ministry.

755
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 4: That was one of the main reasons I believe that

756
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 4: God drew us together is God knew that we would

757
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 4: be better together, we could do more for Him and

758
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 4: be more for God than we could do a part.

759
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: And just as I was hoping that you'd be blessed

760
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: and encouraged and built up and given some hope through

761
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 2: my own story, I hope that Melissa's sharing as well

762
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: has been something that has maybe opened your eyes to

763
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 2: a few things has connected with you as a woman.

764
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: I think women in the church often have a difficult

765
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: time because they have not heard that any other women

766
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 2: dealing with sexual brokenness. They've not heard women being addressed

767
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: within the church as ones who could be struggling with

768
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 2: this issue. Frankly, the church isn't saying an awful lot

769
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 2: about sexuality in general, but when they do, it's almost

770
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 2: always addressed as a men's issue. That pornography is something

771
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: a man struggles with, that adultery or fornication, that really

772
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: that's kind of a dude's issue, and the assumption is

773
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: that most Christian women are not dabbling in those places,

774
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: or if they are, it's so rare. And what happens

775
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: is women who are wrestling, and many, many women are

776
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: wrestling with sexual sin and desire. And often sometimes it's

777
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: rooted in lust and seemingly physical issues that draw them

778
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: into relationships with other men or toward pornography or whatever.

779
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: But so often for women in particular, it's an emotional longing.

780
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 2: It's this desire to be loved and so giving herself

781
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: away in an attempt to find all of that. But

782
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: particularly when it comes to pornography, that tends to be

783
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 2: something that supposedly only men deal with and women don't.

784
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: But I want you to also hear from our friend

785
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,439
Speaker 2: Crystal Vernande. She runs a ministry called she Recovery, and

786
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: we really appreciate her and her approach. And Crystal is

787
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: going to be sharing some of her testimony with you

788
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: right now.

789
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 6: My journey with pornography began at the age of ten

790
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 6: when I stumbled upon pornography in my brother's bathroom. We're

791
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 6: talking now twenty five years ago. So thanks for a

792
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 6: little bit different in terms of technology and accessibility to pornography.

793
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 6: But really, many children at that age today are something

794
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 6: upon pornography in a similar way that I did, just

795
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 6: being home alone and un monitored and kind of that

796
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 6: kind of thing. But I stumbled upon this magazine in

797
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 6: my brother's bathroom at ten years old, and it wasn't

798
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 6: just what you think of as a centerfold kind of magazine.

799
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 6: It was really a pretty explicit magazine with with with

800
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 6: full sexual acts kind of played out on paper. But

801
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 6: for me, it was something about it just sparked intrigue.

802
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 6: It sparked curiosity, and that day, curiosity beat out any

803
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 6: sort of you know, question that I might have had

804
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 6: about this material. I knew I wasn't supposed to look

805
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 6: at it. There was that kind of innate knowing that

806
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 6: this was not for me, and yet I engaged in

807
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 6: that material anyway, even though my home computer was dial

808
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 6: up and my parents had done a lot of what

809
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 6: they thought they should do as far as filtering and

810
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 6: those kinds of things at the time, and even today,

811
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 6: filtering is rather easy to kind of navigate around, and

812
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 6: so I was able to go online and look up

813
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 6: more material for me. I didn't know again, pornography or

814
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 6: what sites to look at. I just kind of googled,

815
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 6: you know, naked women, sex and body body part language,

816
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 6: just to see what would come up. And then all

817
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 6: of a sudden, I was, you know, shown kind of

818
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 6: an endless buffet of pornography and explicit material. And that

819
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 6: behavior continued for years, and then watching became kind of

820
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 6: acting it out, so to speak, with compulsive masturbation, sex chatting,

821
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 6: and sexting online. I even called sex phone numbers just

822
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 6: to kind of get kind of interaction, so to speak

823
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 6: that I was starting to kind of feel like.

824
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 3: I needed more of.

825
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 6: And it really wasn't until entering all of this, I mean,

826
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 6: I knew what this behavior was wrong. I knew this

827
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 6: was not something that I was taught to do or

828
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 6: that I you know, I knew that I wasn't supposed

829
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 6: to be looking at this. I knew I wasn't supposed

830
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 6: to be engaging in this kind of behavior, and yet

831
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 6: I continue to do so because it had become compulsive

832
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 6: and addictive for me as a female. Specifically, I had

833
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 6: never heard any church sermon tackling pornography that included a

834
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 6: conversation about women. The fact that I heard a sermon

835
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,959
Speaker 6: about pornography is actually a good thing, because not even

836
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 6: even today, not many pastors and church leaders tackle pornography

837
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 6: as a topic. The we're talking fifteen twenty years ago,

838
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 6: but there was a sermon at church one Sunday where

839
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 6: my pastor spoke to pornography, but basically that this was

840
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 6: an issue that men struggle with and that you know, men,

841
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 6: this isn't this is an active adultery, and it's a lust,

842
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 6: and so you shouldn't be doing it. But for me,

843
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 6: hearing that, as a female who struggled with pornography, that

844
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 6: told me that I wasn't supposed to have a problem

845
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 6: with pornography, and that as a female, there was something

846
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 6: wrong with me, and that I must have been the

847
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 6: only female who struggled the way that I did, and

848
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 6: that isolation, that feeling a female only one just fed

849
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 6: the shame that I had about my behavior, and so

850
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 6: I kept quiet. I kept silent and really believed for

851
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 6: a long time, but I wasn't going to be able

852
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 6: to break free from this, and so I engaged in

853
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 6: this behavior daily, sometimes multiple times a day. I even

854
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 6: stayed after school and watched porn in the church or

855
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 6: in the school library. Once I started volunteering at church.

856
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 6: I actually started watching pornography in the church office. I

857
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 6: mean I was really kind of just kind of wherever

858
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 6: I could get to get.

859
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 5: It, I was engaging in.

860
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 6: It didn't matter that I was at church, didn't matter

861
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 6: that I was at school, and I even risk getting

862
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 6: caught multiple times. When I was about nineteen, I met

863
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 6: a woman at church who was a little older than me.

864
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 6: I think she was like twenty two or twenty three,

865
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 6: and she shared her testimony with me, and sharing her

866
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 6: story with me, she mentioned that in high school she

867
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 6: had a problem with watching pornography, and that was the

868
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 6: very first time I had heard of any other women

869
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 6: struggling with porn and I kind of had a choice

870
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 6: to make in that moment. I could be like, well, sorry,

871
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 6: that was your problem. You know, I'll pray for you

872
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 6: and pretend that I was okay, because all this time

873
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 6: I was doing all these good godly things, just trying

874
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 6: to appear, you know, flawless. And yet that day I

875
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 6: made the choice to save me too, and that that

876
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 6: was my current struggle and that I didn't know how

877
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 6: to get help. And so I'm thankful that through her

878
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 6: and through you know, having accountability with her and her

879
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 6: really discipling me and mentoring me, I was able to

880
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 6: enter into meaningful recovery, which for me, meaningful recovery meant

881
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 6: not just stopping behavior cold turkey, but getting to the

882
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 6: heart of the issue, which meant for me going to

883
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 6: counseling and getting to the heart of why I struggle

884
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 6: with pornography. And now I'm thirty five years old and

885
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 6: I've been free of pornography for almost fifteen years.

886
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you'd agree with me that Crystal's story

887
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 2: is powerful, and it really highlights how a ten year

888
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: old girl can stumble onto her brother's pornography. In her case,

889
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 2: but it could be any age, it could be any

890
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 2: situation where that happens, and many times the reaction would

891
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 2: be repulsion or pushing away from that. That's kind of

892
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 2: what my wife experienced when she found her father's pornography

893
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: and the garage. But there was a repulsion, but there

894
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: was also this curiosity about pornography and about these women

895
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 2: that she's seeing on these pages. And I think there's

896
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 2: a way in which women so quickly begin to feel like, well,

897
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 2: I don't measure up to this image. I don't look

898
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 2: like her, and so there's something deficient in me, or

899
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: if I'm going to be desired or pursued by a man,

900
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: somehow I have to do these kinds of things. And

901
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 2: there's just so much confusion for girls and for young

902
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 2: boys around sexuality as lived out in this filth called

903
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 2: pornography and other forms of early sexualization. But crystal story

904
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 2: is just so powerful in the way that she unpacks it.

905
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 2: And I love how this woman in the end, who

906
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: wasn't too much older than her, maybe three or four

907
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 2: years older, really shared her story with Crystal. And you know,

908
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 2: I've oftentimes said when I share a Crystal story, I'll

909
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 2: oftentimes say to my audience that I met this young

910
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: woman who shared with Crystal was probably tempted to leave

911
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 2: that part out about her own struggle with pornography. But

912
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: where would Crystal be today if she wasn't willing to

913
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 2: name it. I oftentimes talk about the fact that we

914
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 2: as Christians need to be telling our stories a whole

915
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 2: lot more than we typically do, and we need to

916
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: stop cleaning up our stories. We need to stop sanitizing

917
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: them so much that they become irrelevant, they become untouchable,

918
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: they become unknowable by a culture in a world that

919
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: is wrestling with deep, deep areas of sin and brokenness,

920
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 2: and they know how dirty they are, they know they

921
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: have an idea of just how broken they are. And

922
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 2: when Christians clean up the mess of our lives that

923
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 2: God came into and rescued us out of, we're actually

924
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: robbing people of hope. We start to sound irrelevant to them,

925
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 2: as if God only helps people who are not that

926
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 2: bad off. And the truth is, no, that's not accurate.

927
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 2: God comes into our mess, he comes into our gutter situations,

928
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 2: he comes into the mayre, he comes into our sewers,

929
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: and he draws us out of those places. And we

930
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: need to be willing to not go into unnecessary details

931
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 2: of a sexual nature, but we need to be willing

932
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 2: to name clearly the brokenness so that people can find hope,

933
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: that we ourselves can be more set free and sharing

934
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 2: our story, and that God can be glorified in how

935
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: we're sharing about Him as the faithful one who comes

936
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: into our messes and washes us and cleanses us and

937
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 2: cleans us up and sets us on a right path.

938
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 2: And no matter how many times we have to do that,

939
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: no matter how many times we have to come back

940
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:03,720
Speaker 2: to the cross and confess. We're also told very clearly

941
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: in James five sixteen that we are to confess not

942
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 2: only to God, but we are to confess to one

943
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: another and to pray for each other that we might

944
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: be healed. And that verse goes on and says that

945
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 2: the prayer of a righteous man or a righteous woman

946
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,439
Speaker 2: accomplishes much. First John one seven talks about this need

947
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 2: that we have to walk in the light as he

948
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 2: God is in the light. And when we do, we

949
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 2: have fellowship with one another, and the blood of His

950
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 2: son cleanses us from all sin. We love First John

951
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 2: one to nine. When we confess our sins, he is

952
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 2: faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to

953
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: cleanse us from all unrighteousness. But what we do typically

954
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 2: is we pull First John one to nine out of

955
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: the context of First John one seven and we make

956
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 2: it about us and God, me and God. I'm going

957
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 2: to confess to God. I'm going to pour out my

958
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 2: heart to him. I'm going to confess what a worm

959
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 2: I've been the last however many days that I've been

960
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: binging on this thing or that thing. And I'm going

961
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 2: to receive that forgiveness. Well, it's true that when we

962
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: confess our sins, he forgives us. But again looking at

963
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: verse seven, looking back at James five sixteen, looking at

964
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: Hebrews three. We'll talk about that in a minute. But

965
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: there's so many places in the scriptures that connect our healing.

966
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 2: That's what James I sixteen talks about it. He talks

967
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: about healing. It isn't just about forgiveness. It's about the

968
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 2: healing that needs to happen, that happens in the context

969
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 2: of community, That happens in the context of being vulnerable

970
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 2: with at least a few people that know you fully.

971
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: And it's in the power of that that God moves

972
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 2: and works. I wondered for years, God, where are you?

973
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 2: Why are you not showing up? Well, one of the

974
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 2: reasons he wasn't showing up two reasons. One is the

975
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 2: church that was around me was not available to be

976
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: used by him. They didn't want to touch someone like me,

977
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 2: They didn't want to be around someone like me, They

978
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: didn't know what to do. They themselves may have been

979
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 2: struggling with their own sexuals, and I know in some

980
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 2: cases that was true, And so therefore they have no power,

981
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: no authority to actually speak into the life of a

982
00:55:55,000 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 2: young man who's dealing with sexual addiction, pornography, addiction, chronic matas, disturbation,

983
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 2: and just all kinds of questions about his identity. But

984
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 2: the Church needs to do that. The second reason that

985
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 2: that didn't happen is because I was closed off to it.

986
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 2: I was terrified of anybody knowing my story or knowing

987
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 2: anything about me. P. Sixty eighty six says that God

988
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 2: takes the lonely and puts them in family. Only the

989
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 2: rebellious dwell in a harsh land. The character of God,

990
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 2: the heart of God, the nature of God is to

991
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 2: take lonely people and put us in family. And that's

992
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: one of the beauties of the Body of Christ is

993
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 2: it's our second chance at family. The Body of Christ,

994
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: the Church are many things. It's the bride of Christ,

995
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: but it's also this unit, this gathering together of people

996
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 2: that are meant to be to be known, where we

997
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 2: are communicating with one another in deep ways, in real ways,

998
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 2: that were not living double lives, that were not living

999
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 2: in shadows away from one another. But we have some

1000
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 2: people in our life that really fully know us, and

1001
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 2: by fully knowing us, we can also be fully loved.

1002
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 2: We can take in that love because we know that

1003
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: we're not hiding the lie that I had in my

1004
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 2: head for so long that the enemy always reminded me

1005
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 2: of is Gary. If they only knew you. Yeah, they're

1006
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,439
Speaker 2: acting nice to you. Now, they're being kind, they're going

1007
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: out of their way to get dinner with you or

1008
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 2: spend time with you or there so that. But if

1009
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 2: they really knew the kind of person you were, and

1010
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 2: the things that you think about, the things that turn

1011
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: you on sexually, the things that you've been involved with,

1012
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 2: and the things that have been done to you, if

1013
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 2: they only knew that, they wouldn't want to have anything

1014
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: to do with you. It was only when I finally

1015
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: named my own sin, when I talked about homosexuality being

1016
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 2: part of my experience, when I talked about the addictions

1017
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 2: to pornography and all this stuff that, and I talked

1018
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: about that in the context of a men's group. I

1019
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 2: didn't go into gory details. I just named those things.

1020
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 2: And it was in the context of that finally that

1021
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 2: the power of that statement was broken because now they knew.

1022
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: Now I told on myself. Now it was out and

1023
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 2: everything was in the light. And now when these guys

1024
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 2: would want to spend time with me, would want to

1025
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 2: affirm me, would not be afraid to see me out

1026
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: a Sunday morning and come up and give me a hug.

1027
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I was not expecting any of those things

1028
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: when I told my story. I was expecting them to

1029
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 2: kind of pull back and not want to get too

1030
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: close to me, and kind of go on the other

1031
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 2: side of the church main street and avoid me or whatever.

1032
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 2: And instead they were drawn even more to me. And

1033
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: that was just radically transforming in my mid thirties, and

1034
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 2: over the course of time, I wound up going on

1035
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 2: staff with that church and working at that church for

1036
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 2: twelve years, my final role being the pastor of Soul

1037
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 2: Care Ministries and overseeing the very counseling program at support

1038
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 2: program that of a variety of sorts that were so

1039
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 2: helpful to me when I came to that church fresh

1040
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: out of addiction and looking for help and support and

1041
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: desperate myself. So again, God is so amazing in the

1042
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: way that he can transform our lives, and when we

1043
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 2: give our lives to him, he breaks our life open

1044
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: and uses us in the lives of so many others.

1045
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 2: So again I would love for you to lean in

1046
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: and just enjoy and take in this story from my

1047
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 2: friend Tom Wright and hear what God has done in

1048
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 2: his life and the wreckage and the brokenness that God

1049
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 2: brought him out of to really come into the fullness

1050
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: of who God created him to be as a son

1051
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 2: made in the image of God.

1052
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 3: She met her my stepfather. His name is Willard. They

1053
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 3: had met it some kind of a singles thing. I'm

1054
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 3: not really clear on what all that was, but they

1055
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: dated and then they married as soon as they were able.

1056
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 3: And Willard in many ways was really a good man.

1057
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 3: He would play with my brother and I. He played.

1058
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 3: He would play hide and seek and tag. I mean

1059
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 3: go out there literally for a couple hours, not like

1060
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 3: give you ten minutes and call it a day. He

1061
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 3: would seriously engage with you and do these things. He

1062
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 3: taught us how to make whistles with blade of grass

1063
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 3: and put them between the thumbs and you know, and

1064
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 3: we could do that. He would make whistles out of

1065
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 3: straws for us. I mean, he would engage with us.

1066
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 3: He would make bicycles for us and fix our bicycles

1067
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 3: for us. But all of that being said, Willard was

1068
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 3: also a rage a hollick, and when he would be angry,

1069
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 3: you got hit with whatever was nearby or in his hand.

1070
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: One of my earliest and probably the most painful memory

1071
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 3: I have, though, was within the first year of marriage

1072
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 3: with my with Willard, my stepfather, my brother, and I

1073
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 3: got caught playing with matches. And so I was six,

1074
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 3: I was in first grade, I believe, and my brother

1075
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 3: would have been like four and a half, maybe five,

1076
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 3: depending on exactly when it was. But we got caught

1077
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 3: playing with matches, and our punishment was that he took

1078
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 3: us into the bathroom and set us on the toilet,

1079
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 3: and he burned the bottom of our toes until they

1080
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 3: blisked all ten of them. It wasn't just one toe,

1081
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 3: and that you know that. I didn't even know that

1082
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 3: was I didn't know any of this was abuse. I

1083
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 3: didn't have work, I didn't have that language for it.

1084
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 3: Shortly after my mom and my stepdad Willard got married,

1085
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 3: we were living in an apartment and we had a

1086
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 3: babysitter upstairs. It was twelve or thirteen, and so I'm six,

1087
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 3: and she would babysit us. Well, I don't have a

1088
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 3: whole lot of memory of it, but I do know

1089
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 3: that she did sexually abuse me. I'm not even sure

1090
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 3: how many times. Out of high school into the military.

1091
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 3: Now I'm away from home, I'm in a military environment.

1092
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 3: We're going out to the bars, and it was just

1093
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 3: it was just drink and have sex. Drink and pick

1094
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 3: up women. That was that was my goal. I was

1095
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 3: full of rage and full of anger. I've said in

1096
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 3: the past, I really didn't have a compassionate cell left,

1097
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 3: and it was just about me. I was always on

1098
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 3: defense mode always. You know, my idea was a good defense.

1099
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 3: The best defense is a good offense, and so I

1100
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 3: was always offensive in defending myself. But I was full

1101
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 3: of anger, and I was really a scared little boy

1102
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: on the inside. In other words, inside I was still

1103
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 3: six or seven years old, maybe not even that old.

1104
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 3: I did find the Lord. But what I didn't understand

1105
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 3: and didn't know, and I didn't have people around me

1106
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 3: that could explain to me, is that I needed a

1107
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 3: lot of help. I was very broken from the abuse,

1108
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 3: the sexual abuse, the physical abuse, emotional abuse, all the

1109
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 3: stuff I had done on my own to myself. You know,

1110
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 3: it wasn't just others inflicting I made a lot of

1111
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 3: bad decisions that had ramifications in my life, and so

1112
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 3: I was a mess very early on. The thing that

1113
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: I loved about living orders is it didn't matter what

1114
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 3: your flavor of brokenness was in your life. We all

1115
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 3: came from a lot of the same situations and backgrounds.

1116
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 3: Frequently I would hear things like, well, you don't understand.

1117
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 3: I almost immediately had a great answer in my opinion.

1118
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 3: I would look at him and say, you're right, I

1119
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 3: don't understand what it is to be attracted to a man.

1120
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 3: I said, I don't, But I do understand what it

1121
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 3: is to feel lonely. I do know what it is

1122
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 3: to be afraid. I do know what it is to

1123
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 3: want to have sex of some kind with somebody. I

1124
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 3: do know. See, those are the things that were the

1125
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 3: same for all of us, and I don't need to

1126
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 3: know your flavor of how you do this for us

1127
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 3: to understand that we're all trying to get to the

1128
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 3: same place of wholeness where we can live a life

1129
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 3: of some you know, some goodness and some holiness to

1130
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 3: it and make a difference in the lives of others.

1131
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 2: And as a final wrap up of our time together

1132
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 2: here on the prey dot Com Radio app on this

1133
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 2: November sixteen, I'd love for you to listen to my

1134
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: friend Laura Perry as she talks about her journey of

1135
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: getting lost and confused and wrapped up in all these

1136
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: areas of kind of mystery and confusion around gender dysphoria,

1137
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 2: how that grew over time, and the way that God

1138
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 2: wooed her and drew her back into relationship with himself

1139
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 2: and brought her into newness of life. She's now married

1140
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 2: to a man, She's now involved in ministry. Her life

1141
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 2: is oriented toward the Gospel and oriented toward Jesus. And

1142
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 2: she is a joyful woman now that she has surrendered

1143
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: her life to Jesus and has rejected the gender dysphoria

1144
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 2: and turned her back on this idea that she was

1145
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 2: actually meant to be a man, that she should have

1146
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: been a man. No, she is and was a woman

1147
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 2: made in God's image, and God has redeemed that and

1148
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 2: He's using her story in powerful ways. Listen to our

1149
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 2: friend Laura Perry.

1150
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 5: From a child's perspective, I didn't understand that a lot

1151
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 5: of times my mom would say things like go away,

1152
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 5: get off of me, leave me alone, go to your room.

1153
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 3: You know.

1154
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 5: It was just I felt pushed away and rejected all

1155
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 5: the time. I began to interpret that is mom doesn't

1156
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 5: love me as much. I'm not good, and it just

1157
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 5: started this deep seated lie. And I began to look

1158
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 5: at my brother, who was very quiet and very obedient,

1159
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 5: and I was not. I was just, you know, I

1160
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 5: was such a handful and I was very hyper and

1161
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 5: so but I didn't know how to be more like

1162
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 5: my brother. She was much closer to him, but he

1163
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 5: almost never talked, you know, and he was just content

1164
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 5: all the time. But it started this early jealousy of boys.

1165
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 5: So when other experience was it would happen, it would

1166
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 5: reinforce the lies I already believed. So like when I

1167
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 5: went to school, I didn't know how to fit in

1168
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 5: with the girls. And most of my life I believed

1169
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 5: that those girls rejected me. And I look back, and

1170
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 5: I don't think the girls rejected me at all. I

1171
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 5: think they tried to include me. I think that the

1172
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 5: truth is that I didn't know how to relate to them.

1173
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 5: I remember the day that one of the girls who

1174
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 5: had wanted to be friends with for so long, I

1175
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 5: gave her and some other kids some Christmas presents, and

1176
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 5: when I walked away, she and another friend left and

1177
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 5: said she actually thought we were friends with her, and

1178
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 5: it was devastating, you know. And it was like those

1179
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 5: and other experiences that really made me hate women even more.

1180
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 5: And I finally I joined an adult hookup site, just

1181
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 5: giving away free sex, no strings attached, you know, all

1182
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 5: over the state, and still about two thirds of the

1183
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 5: guys rejected me, and I just remember thinking, I can't

1184
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 5: even give myself away. Nobody wants me, and the few

1185
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 5: guys that did treated me like I was trash, and

1186
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 5: it just began to make me hate being a woman,

1187
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 5: making me even more angry with God because I blamed

1188
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 5: God for all my problems. And I think that's when

1189
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,479
Speaker 5: I really started to I remember looking around and thinking,

1190
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 5: you know, there's guys that have weight problems that you know,

1191
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 5: still get pretty girls. Sometimes maybe it'd be easier if

1192
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 5: I was a guy. I felt like I should have

1193
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 5: been a boy my whole life anyway, and I started

1194
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 5: fantasizing about it, especially through pornography and virtual sex games

1195
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 5: things like that, where I could become this male character,

1196
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 5: and that fantasy for about six months started to drive

1197
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 5: me crazy until I finally thought, you know, this is

1198
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 5: who I am. I was supposed to be a man,

1199
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 5: and it's you know, I can look back and see

1200
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,439
Speaker 5: how that thought became pervasive. And the more I thought

1201
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 5: about it, the more I desired to act on it.

1202
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 5: And I was shocked when thousands of results came up

1203
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 5: and there were all these people that claimed they were transgender,

1204
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 5: and this is it. And I found a support group

1205
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 5: where in the town I was living, and I showed

1206
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 5: up at the group and within five minutes, They're like, oh,

1207
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 5: you are definitely transgender. And I was worried that I

1208
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 5: would never look like a man. But I remember the

1209
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 5: leader who was a female to male transgender, and she said,

1210
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 5: don't worry about it. After a year or so of

1211
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 5: taking hormones, no one will ever know you were a girl.

1212
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 5: And what I've learned from the Lord now that there

1213
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 5: is a huge significance to our male and female design

1214
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 5: that is much deeper than a few parts that are external.

1215
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 5: And the Lord had just radically changed my life. And

1216
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 5: I was so on fire for Jesus. But I was

1217
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,200
Speaker 5: going to be a man of God because I knew

1218
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 5: that it wasn't God's will for me to be transgender.

1219
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,640
Speaker 5: But it was like, well, I've had all these surgeries,

1220
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 5: I've taken all these hormones, so I can't go back,

1221
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 5: So I'll just be a man of God now. But

1222
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 5: God pursued me over the next year and a half.

1223
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 5: God was pouring his word into me, and there were

1224
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 5: so many things that God would convict me by, and

1225
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 5: so that began to shift my thinking a little bit.

1226
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 5: But I didn't know how to change who I was,

1227
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 5: and so I began really wrestling with the Lord. And

1228
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 5: there was this desperate desire to know that and to

1229
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 5: fulfill that will, but being so afraid of how painful

1230
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 5: it would be. And so I started begging the Lord

1231
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 5: with all my heart to just take my life because

1232
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 5: I could not see any way out, and I just

1233
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 5: this is too painful, this is too hard. And I

1234
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 5: finally after a couple of months of really begging the Lord,

1235
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 5: I mean night after night, coming home and sobbing, and

1236
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 5: I would just beg the Lord, and I finally found

1237
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 5: myself in this deep dark pit that I couldn't get

1238
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 5: out of, and I could see the light at the top,

1239
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 5: but there was just no way out. And he reminded

1240
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 5: me of Matthew Chapter sixteen, verses twenty four through twenty

1241
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 5: six says, if anyone will come after me, let him

1242
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 5: deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

1243
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 5: For whoever will save his life shall lose it. But

1244
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 5: whoever loses his life for my sake, you'll find it.

1245
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 5: For what is it profit a man to gain in

1246
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 5: the whole world and yet forfeit his own soul? Or

1247
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 5: what shall I give an exchange for his soul? And

1248
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 5: I had a vision of Jesus Christ getting down on

1249
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 5: one knee. He reached his hand down in this pit,

1250
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 5: and he just asked me, do you trust me? And

1251
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 5: he was asking me to just walk away from everything,

1252
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 5: to leave it all behind. He didn't tell me how

1253
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 5: did he transition. He didn't tell me what the next

1254
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 5: few years of my life would look like. All he

1255
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 5: said was, come and follow me, just trust me, walk

1256
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 5: by faith. And it was the hardest decision I had

1257
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 5: ever made, and it was incredibly painful. I cried and

1258
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 5: cried so much grief, and I remember thinking at the

1259
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 5: time I felt like I was dying, but I didn't

1260
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 5: realize until later that I was, in a sense I

1261
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 5: was dying to my flesh to the identity that I

1262
01:10:56,360 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 5: had created it that had to die. And yet though

1263
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 5: it was like at some point I got resurrected, and

1264
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 5: all of a sudden I had this new life in

1265
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,480
Speaker 5: Christ that I never knew was possible.

1266
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 2: Well, I actually misspoke earlier. When I was talking about

1267
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 2: how God comforts us and calls us to comfort others,

1268
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 2: I mentioned that that was something that Paul told us

1269
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:23,719
Speaker 2: in Colossians. Actually it's in tewod Corinthians, chapter one, starting

1270
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 2: in verse three. Blessed be the God and Father of

1271
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 2: our Lord, Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God

1272
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 2: of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction,

1273
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 2: so that we may be able to comfort those who

1274
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 2: are in any affliction with the comfort with which we

1275
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 2: ourselves are comforted by God. Those are amazing passages that

1276
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,879
Speaker 2: call us to be the hands and feet of Jesus

1277
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 2: to one another. But let me just ask you something.

1278
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 2: How can we really comfort one another when we don't

1279
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 2: really know one another? When we know lots of facts

1280
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 2: about each other, kids' names, what you do for career,

1281
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 2: maybe many interests that we have, but we don't know

1282
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 2: the heart of what the other person is wrestling with

1283
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 2: struggling with what their challenges are, how they feel about

1284
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 2: themselves as a failure, etc. And so we need to

1285
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 2: actually know one another to be able to in any

1286
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 2: way really have the kind of impact on each other,

1287
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 2: to comfort one another as God calls us to well.

1288
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 2: As we wrap up our time today in this particular

1289
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:32,719
Speaker 2: segment from Love and Truth Network, I'm just so grateful.

1290
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 2: My name again is Gary Ingram. I'm the founder and

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01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,680
Speaker 2: executive director of Love and Truth Network. Just grateful for

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01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be with you today November sixteenth, and

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01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 2: for our message to be looped throughout the day on

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01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 2: pray dot Com. We're so grateful for the twenty seven

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01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: thousand plus folks who have chosen to follow Gary Ingram

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01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 2: on the Prey dot com app as well as Love

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01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 2: and Truth Network. We're encouraged by that. We're encouraged by

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01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 2: those who have subscribed to us as well, and I

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01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:00,040
Speaker 2: just want to leave you with this message today. I

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01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 2: hope that today has been an encouragement to you. The

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01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,719
Speaker 2: stories that you've heard and what I've shared in between

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01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 2: those stories has been an encouragement to you today. We

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01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 2: would love it if you would pass along to those

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01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: that this kind of content could be an encouragement to

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01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 2: those that are struggling. But we're also asking for those

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01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 2: who are connected to churches and pastors, and you'd like

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01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 2: those churches to get more equipped on these topics to

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01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 2: be more effective in ministering to men and women and

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01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 2: young people in their churches. That's why we exist as

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01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 2: a ministry primarily is to equip the church. Would you

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01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 2: introduce us to your pastors. Would you introduce us to

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01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 2: people in your life who this kind of content would

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01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 2: be encouraging to or could potentially teach or equip them

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01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 2: to be an encouragement to others. Again, remembering that God

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01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 2: has called us to be a comfort, to pass along

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01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:51,760
Speaker 2: the comfort that we ourselves to receive from Him to

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01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 2: others who are in need. As we wrap up today,

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01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 2: I just want to leave you with these words from

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01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 2: Hebrews chapter three. Starting in verse twelve, the writer says,

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01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 2: take care of brethren, that there not be in any

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01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 2: one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away

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01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 2: from the living God verse thirteen. But encourage one another

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01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 2: day after day, as long as it is still called today,

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01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: so that none of you will be hardened by the

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01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 2: deceitfulness of sin. Sin is deceitful, sin is a liar.

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01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: But God has given us a prescription that prevents us

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01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 2: from developing an unbelieving heart and evil unbelieving heart and

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01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 2: a heartened heart. And that prescription is encouraging one another

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01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,759
Speaker 2: day after day, as long as it's still called today.

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01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 2: So the emphasis is on daily encouragement, but encouragement that

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01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 2: is throughout the day, as long as it's still called today.

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01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 2: And again I would ask the question, how can we

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01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:48,799
Speaker 2: encourage one another when we don't really know one another?

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01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 2: How do we encourage one another when we don't know

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01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 2: what the other person is wrestling with, struggling with, We

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01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 2: don't really know what their needs are. And so this

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01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 2: is a both and situation. And we have to be

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01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 2: willing to get into the mess and the muck and

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01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 2: the mire of other people's lives, but we also have

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01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 2: to be willing to let people in. That's where the

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01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 2: both and comes in. I think oftentimes Christians will lean

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01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 2: into becoming better encouragers, becoming better at loving other people.

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01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 2: But we are terrible at letting other people love us.

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01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 2: We are terrible at allowing other people to encourage us.

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01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 2: And really know us, but for this to be effective,

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01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 2: we have to be willing to not only be used

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01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,759
Speaker 2: by God and other people's lives, but to allow God

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01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 2: to use other people in our lives. There's a kind

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01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 2: of grace that God pours into our life through the

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01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 2: conduit of community that he does not do directly. I

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01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 2: lived for years wondering where is God? Where is the Church?

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01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 2: How do I find help and support? I don't even

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01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 2: know how to begin this journey out of the mess

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01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 2: that I'm in, And I wandered in the wilderness for

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01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 2: a long time because, as I look back, there were

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01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 2: many within the church that again didn't want to touch

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01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 2: or deal with someone like me. And God doesn't just

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01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 2: fix what we as Christians are not fulfilling. And the

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01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,640
Speaker 2: mandate that He's given us to go and make disciples,

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01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 2: the mandate he's given us to comfort others with a

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01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 2: comfort ourselves we have received from God, the mandate that

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01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,240
Speaker 2: he's given us to confess our sins to one another

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01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 2: and to pray for each other that we might be healed.

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01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 2: He doesn't just swoop in and fix all of that

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01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 2: because the church is not being the church, because His

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01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 2: sons and daughters are not allowing him to use them

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01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 2: in these powerful ways. When Psalm sixty eighty six again

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01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,799
Speaker 2: says God takes the lonely and puts them in family.

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01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 2: Are families willing for God to put lonely people in

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01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 2: their community, in their homes? Are they willing for that?

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01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 2: Because God can't put as much as the heart of

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01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 2: God wants to connect lonely people to sources of encouragement

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01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 2: and strength and environments where they can find wholeness, he

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01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 2: can't do that or not when we are unwilling in

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01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 2: large measure to be used that way. And so this

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01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 2: message today is really about being the body of Christ.

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01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 2: We love Rosaria Butterfield and the work that she's done.

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01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 2: We love her story of coming out of lesbianism. She's

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01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 2: now a pastor's wife, but her story is powerful. All

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01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,799
Speaker 2: of our books are amazing, but one of her books

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01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 2: that are, it's one of my favorites. It's called The

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01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 2: Gospel Comes of the House Key, and in it she

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01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 2: talks about this concept of radical ordinary hospitality. And so

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01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 2: a lot of this message today, as you've heard these

1385
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 2: stories and you've heard about how God has worked in

1386
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:40,839
Speaker 2: our lives, it's been again through that conduit of community,

1387
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 2: so often the way that God has used others to

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01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,839
Speaker 2: secure us, to anchor us. And many of us wandered

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01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 2: for months and years and sometimes decades of time because

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01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 2: we couldn't find, or we weren't interested in or others

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01:17:56,520 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 2: weren't interested in being a resource to us. But when

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01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 2: that happened, when those things clicked, the power of God

1393
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 2: really went into overdrive in drawing us out of these

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01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 2: broken places. How amazing would it be for us, as

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01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 2: His sons and daughters to be open handed and open

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01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:21,759
Speaker 2: hearted to ask Him to use us to be a blessing.

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01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 2: That we're blessed to be a blessing. We read about

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01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,560
Speaker 2: that in the Old Testament. Right, we're blessed to be

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01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,679
Speaker 2: a blessing. How amazing would it be if we would

1400
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 2: allow God to use us that way? But also if

1401
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:36,759
Speaker 2: we would open ourselves up to being helped, to being

1402
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 2: encouraged to stop hiding in the shadows. Is so many

1403
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 2: countless numbers of Christians are doing, showing up on Sunday mornings,

1404
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:48,440
Speaker 2: sitting beside one another in church, greeting each other, smiling,

1405
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,519
Speaker 2: hiding behind the veneer that I've got everything together, and

1406
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 2: yet inside is so much rot, so much brokenness, so

1407
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 2: much sexual sin, and other things going on as well.

1408
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 2: We need one another to really move forward and healing,

1409
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 2: and so I hope again this whole time today has

1410
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 2: been an encouragement to you, a blessing to you. Reach

1411
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 2: out to us at Love and Truth Network. You can

1412
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 2: go to our website at loventruthnetwork dot com. You can

1413
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 2: check out our regular podcast that comes out weekly both

1414
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 2: in audio and video, and you can find that on

1415
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 2: all the major platforms YouTube as well as on our

1416
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 2: website again loventruthnetwork dot com. But we would love for

1417
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 2: you to get more connected with us as a ministry

1418
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 2: through our website. Sign up for our newsletter. We'd love

1419
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 2: to have that ability just to reach out and connect

1420
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 2: with you as well. We only send out about one

1421
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 2: every quarter or so. We send out a few other

1422
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 2: announcements as well, but really try not to fill up

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01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 2: anyone's inbox with too much information. I don't like that,

1424
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 2: and I'm assuming other people don't like that, so we

1425
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 2: try to stay clear of that. But we again would

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01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 2: love to be connected with you in whatever way would

1427
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 2: be helpful or meaningful for you. So the two things

1428
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 2: you could be doing for our ministry is spreading the word,

1429
01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 2: letting people know that we're here and that we are

1430
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 2: primarily here to equip the local church nationally on how

1431
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 2: to effectively minister in the space of restoring relational and

1432
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 2: sexual wholeness and Biblical identity. And then, secondly, through subscribing

1433
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 2: to our content in Prey, you help to financially support us.

1434
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 2: Of course, you can also go to our website and

1435
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:21,400
Speaker 2: there's a donation button there as well, and you can

1436
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 2: sign up for one time or a monthly gift. The

1437
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:27,879
Speaker 2: monthly support is especially helpful because it helps us budget

1438
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 2: throughout the year, but sometimes people like to give larger

1439
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 2: just kind of one time gifts. Of course, those are

1440
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 2: a huge blessing as well. So however, God would prompt

1441
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 2: you to hear this message and want more of this

1442
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 2: content out in both the public square but also to

1443
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:47,799
Speaker 2: be equipping churches and Christian leaders and pastors around the country.

1444
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:49,720
Speaker 2: We would love for you to partner with us. If

1445
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,599
Speaker 2: this touches your heart and is meaningful to you, take care,

1446
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:54,840
Speaker 2: bless you. We look forward to seeing you again in

1447
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 2: a future episode that will be coming out on the

1448
01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 2: Prey dot com app, Pray dot com Family. Thank you

1449
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 2: so much for joining us for this week's Love and

1450
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 2: Truth Network broadcast on behalf of our team. I hope

1451
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 2: this week's content has encouraged and stirred you up to

1452
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,960
Speaker 2: take action, committing to Jesus with greater surrender, as well

1453
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 2: as pursuing deeper life giving connections with a band of

1454
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 2: brothers or band of sisters within the Family of God.

1455
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 2: To engage with more of our content, find us at

1456
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 2: loveintruthnetwork dot com. Encourage your friends and family to tune

1457
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,480
Speaker 2: in to our prey dot com channel and our website,

1458
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 2: and we hope to see you back here again next week.