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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: Good morning and welcome to Counterpoints. Happy Wednesday, everybody. We've

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Speaker 4: got a little bit of housekeeping. We're as we've almost

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Speaker 4: got everybody moved over from the old system to the

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Speaker 4: new one. Yeah, we have a little bit of concierge help, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: finish it off.

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Speaker 5: That's right, No breaker left behind. Just make sure that

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Speaker 5: you look in the episode description and in today's email.

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Speaker 5: If you're still searching for the YouTube and Spotify links,

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Speaker 5: they're going to be there. Plus, if you're still having

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Speaker 5: any issues, Griffin is here to help. He wants us

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Speaker 5: to convey that no breaker will be left behind. That's

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Speaker 5: his word, those are his words. Directly, you can email

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Speaker 5: Hort at locals dot com and actually c C breaking

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Speaker 5: Points Premium at gmail dot com. That's also going to

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Speaker 5: be in the episode description. If you're still having any issues.

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Speaker 3: At all, it's gonna go to Griffin.

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Speaker 5: It's going to go to Griffin. He's here to help

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Speaker 5: Love Treatment Producer Griffin. While he's working on the show,

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Speaker 5: he's also making sure that everyone gets taken care of

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Speaker 5: in this transition period. So thanks everyone for sticking with us.

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Speaker 5: Remember to subscribe if you want to get the Friday

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Speaker 5: edition of the show, counterpoints early right to your inbox,

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Speaker 5: and the full edition of the show early right to

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Speaker 5: your inbox. No breaks, no cut up videos, nothing like that.

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Speaker 5: Whole thing just goes straight to you. So that's the

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Speaker 5: housekeeping for today. Also, Ryan's tie has been straightened out. Yes,

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Speaker 5: we fixed that problem about two seconds before air.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't want people feeling off balanced watching the show.

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Speaker 4: Well we kind of do a little bit, that's true,

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Speaker 4: all right. So we're going to get into the fallout

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Speaker 4: from the Rafa masker, followed by a second Rafa masker,

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Speaker 4: followed by the White House twisting itself into to try

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Speaker 4: to figure out whether or not Israel has launched an invasion,

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Speaker 4: sort of like the kind of dystopian version of Angels

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Speaker 4: dancing on a pin, Like how many IDF soldiers and

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Speaker 4: tanks can like dance in the center of Rafa before

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Speaker 4: it's an invasion, you know, bring all the philosophers out

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Speaker 4: to try to.

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Speaker 3: Figure this one out.

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Speaker 4: Meanwhile, Mexico has joined the ICJ case that South Africa

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Speaker 4: has brought, and Algeria is now saying that it's going

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Speaker 4: to bring the ICC case before the Security Council. They're

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Speaker 4: circulating a partition, they're circulating a resolution, which means that

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Speaker 4: that could be voted on the next five or ten days.

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Speaker 4: We're going to talk about all the politics around that.

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Speaker 4: We got Democrats absolutely freaking out, finally waking up and

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Speaker 4: discovering that their nominee is Joe Biden. Yes, if they

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Speaker 4: watched Counterpoints or breaking Points regularly, we could have told

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Speaker 4: them that was going to be your nominee, like it

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Speaker 4: was headed that direction.

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Speaker 3: And he's not popular.

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Speaker 5: No, we knew that.

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Speaker 4: But apparently this is news to them and it's causing

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Speaker 4: a full blown pain in Washington.

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Speaker 6: The real news to them is that the economy is

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Speaker 6: actually not great. That's what they're like.

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Speaker 3: People are not tobably happy about that.

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Speaker 4: There was a poll showing that people think unemployment is

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Speaker 4: the highest in like forty years, when actually it's kind

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Speaker 4: of the lowest in forty years. Very very weird times

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Speaker 4: we're living in. Meanwhile, Donald Trump about to get convicted.

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Speaker 3: It seems like, yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 5: Jerry, well, we'll talk about this, but the jury is

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Speaker 5: quite literally out today, so they're a verdict could basically

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Speaker 5: come at any time.

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Speaker 3: And their good services like scoping out the jail.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a CEBE News CBS News report. We can

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Speaker 5: get into. They buried that way down at the bottom

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Speaker 5: of their story if you're seeing twenty twenty four on

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Speaker 5: the screen. In addition to Biden, also Robert de Niro

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Speaker 5: is out in the streets talking about how great New

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Speaker 5: York is and how Donald trumpolis to destroyed New York.

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Speaker 5: We've got some really interesting footage from Manhattan yesterday. Jerry

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Speaker 5: and Barry not a new but not a new band. Actually,

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Speaker 5: Jerry Seinfeld them Barry Wise sat down for an interview

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Speaker 5: Harvard at the same time came out with this idea

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Speaker 5: that they're now going new We adhere to institutional neutrality,

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Speaker 5: so we have some news on the campus front. And

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Speaker 5: Ryan's friend Javier Milae. Yes, we'll plunge in the PESO

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Speaker 5: down in Argentina.

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Speaker 6: So we'll talk about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then Donald Trump with some new comments about

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Speaker 4: whether or not he's going to pardon Assange. And if

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Speaker 4: you're looking at that little ICC banner under there, under that,

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Speaker 4: we're also or I forget where we were going to

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Speaker 4: talk about this, we're also going to talk about the

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Speaker 4: new Georgia law that was passed to basically make foreign

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Speaker 4: NGO's register as foreign agents, which has the State Department

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Speaker 4: absolutely freaking out, and which has a lot of interesting

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Speaker 4: implications for the Russia Ukraine war and the kind of

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Speaker 4: geopolitics around that region.

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Speaker 5: And one thing I want to add, just before we

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Speaker 5: get into the news of the day out of Israel,

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Speaker 5: twenty deaths actually twenty five as of a few hours ago.

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Speaker 5: Twenty five tornado deaths just across Memorial Day weekend from

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Speaker 5: tornadoes that ripped through seven states. So a lot of

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Speaker 5: international news, a lot of domestic news. It's an election year,

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Speaker 5: but my goodness, that's a that's a horrible situation in

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Speaker 5: so many communities throughout you know what some folks would

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Speaker 5: consider fly over country.

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Speaker 3: It's just tough. Yeah. Indeed, meanwhile, we can put up

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Speaker 3: a zero here.

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Speaker 4: News is emerging that it was actually Boeing that produced

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Speaker 4: the bomb that created.

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Speaker 6: The fire, the GBU thirty nine that led.

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Speaker 4: To that led to dozens of Palestinians being incinerated in

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Speaker 4: what they what they had expected to be as a safe.

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Speaker 3: Zone, and we can put up a one here.

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Speaker 4: The reverberations of this kind of continue throughout the world,

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Speaker 4: even as the Netnah who accepted responsibility said it was

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Speaker 4: a tragic mistake. I think was his framing. Israel pledges

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Speaker 4: going to investigate itself. There was a there were new

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Speaker 4: renewed strikes on the same area, and actually, I think

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Speaker 4: just eating from the first paragraph of this Associated Press

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Speaker 4: article that we just put up gives you a sense

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Speaker 4: of how the world is covering this and thinking about

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Speaker 4: this at the moment they right. Israeli shelling and air

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Speaker 4: strikes killed at least thirty seven people, most of them

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Speaker 4: sheltering intents outside the southern Gaza city of Rafa, overnight

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Speaker 4: and on Tuesday, pummeling the same area where strikes triggered

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Speaker 4: a deadly fire days earlier in a camp for displaced Palestinians.

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Speaker 4: According to witnesses, emergency workers and hospital officials. Hard to

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Speaker 4: think of a more devastating paragraph that a neutral news

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Speaker 4: organization like the Associated Press could put together about.

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Speaker 3: Anything going on in the world.

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Speaker 4: People getting incinerated intents just days after they were incinerated,

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Speaker 4: other people were incinerated intense and so this has left

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Speaker 4: the State Department and the White House to scramble for answers.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a look at how Matt Miller over the

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Speaker 4: State Department handled this.

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Speaker 7: Yesterday when it comes to the continuation of Israel using

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Speaker 7: precision guided munitions in Rafa.

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Speaker 8: At this point, the US still supports that.

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Speaker 9: We have made no change to our policy.

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Speaker 8: So just is it a yes or no.

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Speaker 9: You made no change in our policy. We have made

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Speaker 9: clear that if there was a full scale military operation

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Speaker 9: there would be some change, but as of yet, it's

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Speaker 9: not a change we do. We do support, as we

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Speaker 9: always have, their ability to go after legitimate Hamas terrorists,

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Speaker 9: and that of course includes using American provided weapons, but

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Speaker 9: we expect them to do so in a way that

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Speaker 9: minimize the civilian.

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Speaker 7: Arm And then just the last question with regard to

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Speaker 7: the reports of the Israeli tanks that are in central Rafa.

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Speaker 8: Right now, I know you said you don't you have

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Speaker 8: verified those reports?

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Speaker 7: Has the US asked Israel about those reports and an

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Speaker 7: explanation for why those tanks might be in central Ruwa?

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Speaker 9: So we are in constant dialogue with them about their

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Speaker 9: military operations and potential military operations in Rafa. I'm not

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Speaker 9: going to get into any specific conversations, but we are

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Speaker 9: constantly interrogating them about what they're doing and what they're playing.

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Speaker 8: So it's safe to say Eve interarrogets is not going to.

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Speaker 3: Go beyond that.

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Speaker 4: The IDF response, meanwhile, or I don't even know if

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Speaker 4: this was the IDF or some like kind of clowns

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Speaker 4: associated with them, was to release what they said was

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Speaker 4: audio of two gossins talking in rough if we can

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Speaker 4: put this up on the screen. People immediately flagged a

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Speaker 4: bunch of problems with this. A they tried this exact

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Speaker 4: thing months ago, and it was very quickly called out

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Speaker 4: to be a fake conversation.

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Speaker 3: Some of it just sounds fake in the way.

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Speaker 4: That people are so clearly and explicitly identifying themselves as

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Speaker 4: and exonerating the IDF. But also if you notice any

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Speaker 4: audio or any phone calls you hear from Gaza since

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Speaker 4: actually before October seventh foot accelerated. Since then you hear

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Speaker 4: drone footage, I mean, I mean you heard in the

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Speaker 4: background it is just the ever present sound of Gaza. Now,

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Speaker 4: somehow the Israelis, who were doing a lot of surveillance

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Speaker 4: forgot to add in the drone sound in the background

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Speaker 4: to add a little bit of kind of authenticity, uh

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Speaker 4: to that clip. Basically, what the clip was trying to

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Speaker 4: say is that it was a it was a jeep

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Speaker 4: that was filled with explosives, that that was owned by

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Speaker 4: Hamas and that's why, that's why it blew up. That

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Speaker 4: was one of multiple different theories that has that have

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Speaker 4: been that have been thrown that have been thrown around,

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Speaker 4: uh since then, and you can put up a actually

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Speaker 4: we'll move to.

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Speaker 3: That in a second.

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Speaker 4: Emily, what what's your what's your what's your thought on

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Speaker 4: the kind of Israeli response?

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Speaker 10: Uh?

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Speaker 3: So so far.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think it's interesting then that Yahu came out

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Speaker 5: and said that this was quote a tragic mistake, because

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Speaker 5: I think that really is reflective of how much pressure

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Speaker 5: he understands that he's under now. Because their argument is

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Speaker 5: essentially that they have the best civilian to military very

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Speaker 5: ratio of any modern army, and the implication of that is, yeah,

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Speaker 5: a lot of civilians are dying, but it's at a

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Speaker 5: rate that is in some way as just as you know,

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Speaker 5: can possibly be done. And to an extent, there's been

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Speaker 5: a sort of owning right and owning up to and

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Speaker 5: just sort of coldly owning up to the ratio the

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Speaker 5: deaths of civilians. And at this point, now that Netanyahu

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Speaker 5: is caught between a rock and a hard place with

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Speaker 5: the Biden administration, I do think it's interesting that he

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Speaker 5: came out and so that this was a tragic mistake.

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Speaker 5: When we're going to get to this in just a minute,

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Speaker 5: it doesn't look like if this was just a mistake.

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Speaker 5: It is reflective of deep incompetence and I think a

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Speaker 5: lack of let's say, a lack of judgment discernment as

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Speaker 5: to what was possibly going to happen in that case.

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Speaker 5: And also just truly I cannot imagine. Let me just

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Speaker 5: put it this way, I don't even care that you know,

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Speaker 5: they say they were trying to hit a different part

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Speaker 5: of this area. It was obviously endangering the lives of civilians.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it was so obviously endangering the lives of civilians,

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Speaker 5: and many civilians and people. By the way, this makes

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Speaker 5: it harder down the road for Israel to do evacuations

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Speaker 5: of civilians because they don't trust it. They're in areas

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Speaker 5: that they're supposed to be safe, So why leave their

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Speaker 5: homes and their families if the place that they're trekking

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Speaker 5: to is going to be unsafe, if they're just going

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Speaker 5: to get killed in another part of Gaza, if their

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Speaker 5: children are just going to get killed in another part

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Speaker 5: of Gaza. So I mean, I think Netanyahu is trying

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Speaker 5: to balance all of the international pressures here, but this

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Speaker 5: is such a blatant if it's a mistake that in

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Speaker 5: and of itself is reflective of something horrible. If we

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Speaker 5: even take them their word of that.

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Speaker 4: Yea, and it didn't seem like it led to much

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Speaker 4: reflection because we can put up a five here at

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Speaker 4: Al Jazeer, by the way, you know, has been banned

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Speaker 4: in Israel, and so their reporters have been yanked. There

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Speaker 4: was that incident where they even took an AP camera

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Speaker 4: from near Gaza, because but then then they give it

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Speaker 4: back because Al Jazeera had a was using AP as

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Speaker 4: a wire service. But so instead they have hin Kadri

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Speaker 4: who's a freelance journalist in Gaza.

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Speaker 3: Here she is reporting.

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Speaker 4: From one of the areas that is supposed to be

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Speaker 4: a designated safe zum. To Emily's point, let's let's play

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Speaker 4: this interview with hint.

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Speaker 1: It went back just right now to the last leaflet

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Speaker 1: that Israelis dropped andre and the place that was targeted

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Speaker 1: right now was Block two three hundred and sixty. In

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Speaker 1: this leaflet, the Israeli forces mentioned that they're calling people

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Speaker 1: to evacuate to all the areas, the humanitarian areas to

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Speaker 1: Del Bala, Hanunis and Almasse area. And one of these

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Speaker 1: areas that men was mentioned is Block two three hundred sixty,

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Speaker 1: which has been targeted right now. So yes, this place

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Speaker 1: was us safe. This place was designated as a humanitarian

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Speaker 1: area according to the last leaflet that was dropped by

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Speaker 1: the Israeli forces on people in And the.

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Speaker 4: Other key point that we can put up a six

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Speaker 4: here is that no matter what you think about, you

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Speaker 4: know which leaflets.

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Speaker 3: You know which ones are included in the.

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Speaker 4: Safe zone which aren't, Like as you were launching these missiles,

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Speaker 4: as you're dropping these bombs, a drone is able to

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Speaker 4: see what's below and here's some images of what you

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Speaker 4: see below. Like you can tell that you're dropping them

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Speaker 4: basically onto a tent city. Yes, obviously like setting all

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Speaker 4: the complications aside.

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Speaker 5: So if you're listening to this, there's a map up

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Speaker 5: on the screen where you see the just complete proximity

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Speaker 5: to what Israel says it was targeting to red tents

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Speaker 5: and to the area that ended up being hit, and

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Speaker 5: it is I mean, words can't do justice. It's just

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Speaker 5: so close. You should look up the map because this

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Speaker 5: is by their own sort of emission. This is their

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Speaker 5: own explanation for what happened. And you know they say

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Speaker 5: that in the this is their words. The precision attack

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Speaker 5: in northwest Rafa, they killed the chief of staff of Hamas,

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Speaker 5: they killed the senior Hamas official to deaths. That's according

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Speaker 5: to the IDF. Now, I think if the ultimate goal

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Speaker 5: is eliminating Hamas, even this precision strike apparently that killed

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Speaker 5: two Hamas officials according to the IDEF. Again, when people

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Speaker 5: are seeing everything else on their screens and they see

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Speaker 5: and they think through the likelihood of Hamas being fully

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Speaker 5: eliminated doesn't feel right.

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Speaker 6: The calculations don't feel right.

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Speaker 4: To people, right, And it's and it's fine to criticize

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Speaker 4: HAMAS for you know, having its officials within civilian populations.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's great, But that is the case.

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Speaker 4: It's the reality all guerrilla armies from an American revolution

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Speaker 4: Army up until the Vietcong through HAMAS.

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Speaker 3: That's that's what they do.

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Speaker 4: The question is what does what does their adversary do

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Speaker 4: and does the adversary respect in the national humanitarian law

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Speaker 4: or laws of war. If you have a couple of

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Speaker 4: Hamas figures surrounded by civilians and tents, that doesn't that

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Speaker 4: two wrongs don't make a right. Doesn't mean you drop

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Speaker 4: a bomb and blow up all the tents there and

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Speaker 4: incinerate people within them.

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Speaker 5: Well, especially when the ultimate goal of court eliminating Hamas, right,

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Speaker 5: that is not an attainable goal, right.

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Speaker 4: Right, exactly. Set aside the morality of it getting rid

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Speaker 4: of two senior officials who can be replaced by other

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Speaker 4: mid level officials will and then and then creating enormous

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Speaker 4: global backlash against yourself and and leading to the recruitment

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Speaker 4: of you can only I would imagine that HAMAS has

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Speaker 4: more people trying to enlist, you know, from Gaza than

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Speaker 4: it has the capacity to kind of arm and structure

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Speaker 4: into an organization at this point, like you could kill

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Speaker 4: they start out with thirty thousand, they could kill all

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Speaker 4: thirty thousand. But if you're living through that, you're probably

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Speaker 4: just going to be like signing, sign me up?

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Speaker 3: What like why not?

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Speaker 5: I think there's a really serious argument that none of

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Speaker 5: this is making is really safe.

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Speaker 9: Right.

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Speaker 4: That's the counter terror argument that people like David Petraeus

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Speaker 4: always made, that you can't kind of kill your way

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Speaker 4: out of it. The old every terrorist you kill creates

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Speaker 4: two or three like do we take that seriously or not?

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Speaker 4: And so Nikki Haley certainly doesn't. If one of the

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Speaker 4: more psychotic things that I've seen in this war, and

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Speaker 4: it's not unique to this one, but it does. You know,

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Speaker 4: social media puts it in our face a lot more.

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Speaker 4: Is this phenomenon of tourists going over to Israel and

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Speaker 4: signing and putting messages on bombs. So Nikki Haley boasting here,

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Speaker 4: she wrote, she writes finish them like she's signed a

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Speaker 4: year book. She writes, America hearts Israel, Yes always, Nicki Haley,

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Speaker 4: it is like a yearbook.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly what it looks like in her loopy cursive

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Speaker 5: America hearts Israel always. Nicki Haley finished them, you know, Ryan,

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Speaker 5: she should have signed the GBU thirty nine, the Boeing.

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Speaker 4: From South Carolina, right, I mean Boeing's like main headquarters

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Speaker 4: is in her like she was on the board, right,

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Speaker 4: She was.

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Speaker 5: On the board of Boeing until she ran for president.

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Speaker 5: And that GBU thirty nine is what was used. As

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Speaker 5: we mentioned earlier, the element is as well, if we

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Speaker 5: put it back up in the street at the screen,

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Speaker 5: that's the one that was used by Israel in the

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Speaker 5: tent city attack in Rafa, as Jordanald points out here.

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Speaker 5: So really, Nicki Haley should have been signing that that

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Speaker 5: old GBU thirty nine.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And Nicki Haley saw her wealth explode after being

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Speaker 4: governor of South Carolina, largely by joining Boeing, Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: using her political power to make sure, you know that

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Speaker 4: they can sell more weapons to the United States, which

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Speaker 4: weapons that were then sent to Israel, weapons that were

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Speaker 4: then dropped on this Rafa tent encampment that then incinerated

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Speaker 4: a lot of women and children while she was there

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Speaker 4: signing other bombs.

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Speaker 6: I bet she.

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Speaker 5: Didn't anticipate that. By the way, I tried to pin

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Speaker 5: down the exact timing. It's hard to know when the

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Speaker 5: picture was actually taken, because when it was posted and

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Speaker 5: taken is different. And I actually did try to chase

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Speaker 5: down the bottom of when that was happening. It was

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Speaker 5: pretty it's pretty difficult to know for sure what the

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Speaker 5: timing was on that, but certainly, I mean it reminds

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Speaker 5: me actually of a lot of what happened during the

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Speaker 5: Cold War, where my fellow Conservatives were sort of doing

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Speaker 5: something very similar and reveling in the brazenness of you know,

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Speaker 5: like the Contras, a good example of the Contras, and

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Speaker 5: you know, because they ultimately believed this was a just war,

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Speaker 5: that this was Manichean good versus evil. And I actually

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Speaker 5: respect the position of completely owning it and being honest,

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Speaker 5: and so to some extent, respect to you, Nikki Haley

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Speaker 5: for putting it all on display, all on display.

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Speaker 3: In that's for sure burned in a tent camp.

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Speaker 5: And I mean it's clarity if anything.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, politically, she's not like she's actually putting herself at risk,

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Speaker 4: but it's.

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Speaker 5: Yes, but yes, absolutely, but yeah, but she's actually like

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Speaker 5: totally aware of the scene on the international stage, aware

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Speaker 5: of all the social media images of children, of women,

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Speaker 5: of the just utter destruction, and she's saying, I don't

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Speaker 5: give an f. Basically, finish them.

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Speaker 4: The US apparently doesn't give much of an f about

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Speaker 4: building things. If you want a metaphor for the entire policy,

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Speaker 4: you can put this element up from CNN. The US

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Speaker 4: peer constructed off Gaza has broken apart. Images that were

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Speaker 4: floating around the internet. Hall Flow had one of it.

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Speaker 4: Just it just sinking and people fail me, just like

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Speaker 4: kind of laughing at oh my god, like just the dark,

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Speaker 4: the dark comedy of it all. Looks like Mack was

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Speaker 4: saying an X ray of a broken pinky there.

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Speaker 3: I was told by.

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Speaker 4: Sources there that a now that now the US military

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Speaker 4: is contracting tug boats at massive expense to try to

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Speaker 4: fix a bunch of this.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 4: There were workers stranded on the on the on the

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Speaker 4: beach basically with not even not even sleeping bags. I

393
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Speaker 4: mean it's you know, all suffering is relative, but you know,

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Speaker 4: workers who signed up to build this this pier did

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Speaker 4: not sign up to sleep overnight in Gaza on the

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Speaker 4: on the beach with no tent, no sleeping bag, no

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Speaker 4: no real certainty of what was going to happen next

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Speaker 4: because there's this huge fear among American policy makers that

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Speaker 4: they can't ever have an American soldier boot on the ground,

400
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Speaker 4: so they have to try to figure out how they're

401
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Speaker 4: gonna not build this or build this.

402
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Speaker 3: Without that potentially happening.

403
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Speaker 4: So it's work for the workers end up taking the

404
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Speaker 4: lumps and the.

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Speaker 3: Three hundred and twenty million dollars.

406
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Speaker 4: But that's going to say that's that's only what's been

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Speaker 4: spent so far now fixing this two months.

408
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Speaker 5: By the way, people remember he kind of caught the

409
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Speaker 5: Pentagon off guard by announcing.

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Speaker 6: This very politically in his State of the Union speech.

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Speaker 5: So that's March. It's operational by I think the date

412
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Speaker 5: was May seventeenth. So three hundred and twenty million dollars,

413
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Speaker 5: three hundred and twenty million dollars for a thousand metric

414
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Speaker 5: tons of aid that got into Gaza. Now whether that

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Speaker 5: was actually distributed was another question.

416
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Speaker 3: Has been distributed.

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Speaker 5: Sabrinas thing, Yeah, said a thousand metric tons. That's our

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Speaker 5: government's own explanation for that's their own number for how

419
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Speaker 5: much was brought in in a two month, three hundred

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Speaker 5: and twenty million dollar project that saw people being fired

421
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Speaker 5: at that broke apart that had just the most embarrassing saga.

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Speaker 5: It's the most embarrassing life arc and was damaged by

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Speaker 5: rough seas, as The New York Times put in a headline.

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Speaker 4: Right they claimed rough seas what I was told us

425
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Speaker 4: that it was basically high tide. Like it's not even

426
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Speaker 4: like there were no real rough seas, Like there are

427
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Speaker 4: rough seas in the Mediterranean.

428
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Speaker 6: Who could have seen it coming?

429
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Speaker 3: But apparently this was just basically high tide. Yeah, there's some.

430
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Speaker 4: Very gentle spring breezes which it just couldn't couldn't stand up.

431
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Speaker 4: So and all of this just because Israel wouldn't let

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Speaker 4: in sufficient amounts of aid.

433
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Speaker 3: Through just over land. It's like, why are we building

434
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Speaker 3: up here?

435
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,959
Speaker 4: Aren't there isn't it connected by land to Israel and Egypt?

436
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 3: Like we could just move aid in through trucks, yes, And.

437
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 5: Are you still going to have a distribution problem when

438
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Speaker 5: the aid gets to the land and.

439
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 4: The other The other idiotic thing was they're like, oh,

440
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Speaker 4: well they won't let aid in through these choke points here,

441
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 4: so we'll build a We'll build a pier over here,

442
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 4: and then that will move things faster. Instead the IDF

443
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 4: sent all of its inspectors over to Cyprus and just

444
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 4: blocked everything at Cyprus, so it couldn't even get on

445
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 4: the ships and get over to the Peer. It's like,

446
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 4: your problem was not a lack of entry points into Gaza, it.

447
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 5: Was a three hundred and twenty million dollar public relations effort, right.

448
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 4: Well, a lot of people thought it was like this

449
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 4: was the beginning of the US occupation of Gaza. So

450
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 4: I guess at least the upside is no, Yeah, that's true.

451
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 4: I can't even get it to keep floating in fairness.

452
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 5: I mean, there were people fired on and had someone

453
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 5: gotten had an American whether a contractor or troops gotten

454
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 5: like actually severely hurt killed, which easily could have happened,

455
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 5: easily could have happened. So to some extent, it's just

456
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 5: it's just luck, cher dumb luck, even in this ridiculous

457
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 5: arc of the Peer, that it didn't become something bigger.

458
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, And we did want to take a minute to

459
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 4: talk about this incredible story over at nine plus nine

460
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: seven two magazine that they wrote in ordination with Israeli

461
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 4: news organization Local Call and The Guardian. If we can

462
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 4: put up this first element of the b block here

463
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 4: surveillance and interference.

464
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 3: Israel's covert war on the ICC exposed.

465
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 4: Just incredible reporting here showing the way that the Israeli

466
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 4: government has done exactly that, spent the last ten years

467
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 4: basically surveilling top prosecutors at the ICC, monitoring their communications,

468
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 4: following whoever it is that they're talking with, and also

469
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 4: directly threatening them and their families in the most kind

470
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 4: of over the top, mob like kind of way.

471
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 5: Most odd cracking people. Yeah, well, ran another part of

472
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 5: the story. It reminds me what we talked about earlier

473
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 5: in the show, about this sort of difficult position from

474
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 5: a PR standpoint, and I don't want to talk about

475
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 5: this just as PR. I'm explaining PR to get to

476
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 5: the moral question. If you're NET in Yahoo, if you're

477
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 5: sort of hawks or your coalition depends on hawks in

478
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 5: the Israeli government, you have a hard time not just

479
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 5: owning that ultimately you have contempt for this, this concept

480
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 5: of international law, and I do think to some extent

481
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 5: it has been weaponized against Israel by Partisans anti Israel

482
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 5: partisans over the years, and that's built up this resentment

483
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 5: and content towards the concept itself, which was obviously developed

484
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 5: after World's War two, well not just developed after World

485
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 5: War two, but codified in a lot of ways after

486
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 5: World War two. And I think ultimately what the story

487
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 5: shows is that you know, this is where they are.

488
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 5: That's yeah, and it's just hard to be morally. The

489
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 5: answer to this is just to say we don't respect

490
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 5: international It's like the Biden administration suddenly respecting the ICC

491
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 5: and Ukraine. But well, you know, we have we're not

492
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 5: a party to it. And when it comes to Israel,

493
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 5: nobody has a consistent position on international law except perhaps

494
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 5: Israel under the surface.

495
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, indeed, it's quite clear.

496
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 4: I just would encourage people to go read that story,

497
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 4: a great, great piece of great piece of journalism. And relatedly,

498
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 4: Algeria is now circulating a resolution if we can put

499
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: up this next element, basically trying to push the Security

500
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 4: Council to enforce the ICJ's most recent order decides that

501
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 4: Israel quote shall immediately halt its military offensive and any

502
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 4: other action in RAFA demands in immediate ceasefire, demands that

503
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 4: the parties comply with their obligations under international law and

504
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 4: relations to all persons they detain. If we have the

505
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 4: Algerian Ambassador to the United Nations here grabbed by some

506
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 4: reporters yesterday.

507
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 3: If we could put up b B three.

508
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: Resolution here that you have assumed circulated, that might happen tomorrow.

509
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 11: For sure, Algeria will circulate this afternoon draft resolution on.

510
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 6: And what's it gonna say?

511
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 2: What's the moving What do you want a.

512
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 11: Short text, decisive text to stop the killing?

513
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 8: Will you invoke the ICJ?

514
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 4: Short decisive texts will invoke the ic J decision. Not

515
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 4: only did Mexico join with South Africa in South Africa's case,

516
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 4: you had France, a member of the Security Council, come

517
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 4: out and support this.

518
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 3: Here's here's the French. I always love to hear from

519
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: the French.

520
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 12: There is no safe zoon for Palestian civilians in Rauffa.

521
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 12: Prisidon Macro has expressed his indignation at the Istralian strikes

522
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 12: which have claimed many victims among the displaced persons in Rafa. Yesterday.

523
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 12: Another strike against the camp kill civilians this morning as well.

524
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 12: These Israeli operations hast stopped immediately as requested by the

525
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 12: International Court of Justice.

526
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 4: As Emily was pointing out, it's impressive to kind of

527
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 4: reunite Algeria and France a question of international law and order.

528
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 6: Okay, well, that's a good point.

529
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 4: At I asked treat A Parsi for a sense of

530
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 4: his timeline on this, and he thinks there could be

531
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 4: a vote before the Security Council in five to ten days.

532
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 4: The vote will obviously be overwhelming in favor, but the

533
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 4: United States has a veto, and so will the US

534
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 4: veto it. Certainly they didn't veto the last thing, because

535
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 4: there the calculation last time was that it's it's a

536
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 4: question of what's more embarrassing on the one hand, vetoing

537
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 4: something the entire world wants to happen, on the other hand,

538
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 4: letting something go through over their kind of objections, and

539
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 4: then just slow looking at not letting anything actually happen, right,

540
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 4: and further showing that the UN doesn't actually have much

541
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 4: enforcement mechanism unless somebody like France is going to take

542
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 4: it upon themselves to go and force it. Like you know,

543
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: as Andrew Jackson said about Supreme Court, you know they

544
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 4: made their decision, now let them enforce it.

545
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 5: I also think the so like all eyes on RAFA

546
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 5: has been going viral this week. I think there are

547
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 5: different pressures just because of the incursion into Rafa that

548
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 5: are going to weigh on Biden. But that's also pressures

549
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 5: from people who are digging their heels in and continue

550
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 5: like Nikki Heeley going over there and signing shells finish

551
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 5: them fing to Moss. That's I mean, I think it's

552
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 5: a You're right, I shouldn't have been so quick to

553
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 5: say that. They'll almost certainly veto it. We'll have to

554
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 5: see what Biden decides.

555
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: I mean, certainly that's the smart money that they would veto. Yeah,

556
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 4: for sure, all of this is happening while there are

557
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 4: renewed peace negotiations underway, or negotiations towards some type of

558
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 4: a ceasefire. And so we talked last week about Egypt

559
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 4: getting blamed for scuttling them. We've got kind of an

560
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: update on that, but you can put up this Middle

561
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 4: East Eye article, you know. So, So basically on Friday,

562
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 4: Burns see director Burns met with UH, went with Kutter

563
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: and Israel to try to hash out some some terms.

564
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 5: UH.

565
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: Then on Monday, Israel submitted what it said was its

566
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 4: counteroffer back to Hamas UH, saying that they were going

567
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 4: to they would be flexible in the number of of

568
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 4: hostages that they would take in the first phase. Uh that,

569
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 4: and they would be they would be more willing to

570
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 4: entertain Hamas's idea of what what Hamas is calling a

571
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 4: sustainable calm, because Israel doesn't want to agree to a

572
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 4: permanent ceasefire.

573
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 3: So and Hamas is saying, they're.

574
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 4: They'll only talk if there there is a something close

575
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 4: to a permanent ceasefiren Yahoo's advisors have been telling him, look,

576
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: because Nnya says, I don't want to agree to anything

577
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 4: that ends the war, and they keep telling him, look,

578
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 4: Hamas is going to do something. They'll shoot off a

579
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 4: rocket or something. They'll they'll give you a pretense to

580
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 4: start the war again. Just take the pause, take the

581
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 4: hostages that that you can while the deal is on

582
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 4: the table. Uhtyahu is not willing to go for that,

583
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 4: because Hamas is also demanding that there'd be some type

584
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 4: of plan for the day after that. They like, they

585
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 4: genuine genuinely like they they they have been sending signals.

586
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 4: They understand it's not going to be Hamas. It's going

587
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: to be in control at the very end of this.

588
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 4: But they also don't want to be the palace an

589
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: authority so like, how are you going to organize this?

590
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 4: And Hamas is saying they want Israel out of Rafa

591
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 4: and off the Rafa crossing and the previous administration Hamas

592
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 4: for now to be put back in charge of the

593
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: Rafa crossing. And they've said, as that headline said, they're

594
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 4: not negotiating until Israel ends its slaughter in Gaza and

595
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 4: and withdraws its tanks and stops bombing like that, that's

596
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 4: that's the precondition for negotiations to get going because and

597
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 4: analysts are saying, well, because of the way that Israel

598
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 4: is continuing to draw so much global condemnation for its actions,

599
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 4: that Hamas is willing to let Israel continue down this

600
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 4: path which is just hurt which is hurting them, hurting

601
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 4: Palestinian civilians, also hurting Israel in the global stage.

602
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 5: When in the peace process, if there's to be a

603
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 5: resolution that's in the interest of the safety of israelis

604
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: you know, we talked about this earlier, but that's what

605
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 5: really I mean, at the end of the day, that's

606
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 5: what Israel's interests are to its own civilians and their safety,

607
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 5: and so it doesn't I mean, I'm pretty skeptical that

608
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 5: the way this war is prosecuted is ultimately and even

609
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 5: even in the interest of the Israeli the safety of

610
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 5: Israeli citizens.

611
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 4: And the Middle East side has some good sources inside

612
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 4: the Middle East, as you can imagine, and they follow

613
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 4: up on this reporting. If you didn't watch the show

614
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 4: last week, what we were reporting on is the way

615
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 4: that Hamas had accepted this deal, which Israel then said no,

616
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 4: Hamas changed the terms of the deal, so we don't

617
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 4: accept Hamas's acceptance of the deal. There was reporting that

618
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 4: the US had signed off on what Hamas had agreed to,

619
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 4: that Hamas believed that it was signing off on the

620
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 4: actual offer. That was followed by blaming an individual member

621
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 4: of Egyptian intelligence that they even named in CNN as

622
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 4: responsible for tweaking the deal and blowing the whole thing up.

623
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 3: According to the new reporting.

624
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 4: That was just as and as we suggested last week

625
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 4: that was just pure scapegoating, that everybody had actually signed

626
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 4: off on it. But then Israel did not accept the

627
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: kind of acceptance in response, as Middle East I writes.

628
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 3: The source added that.

629
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 4: Egypt was scapegoaded for a breakdown of talks even though

630
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 4: the America had quote agreed to the two amendments by Hamas,

631
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 4: and then because they were unable to oblige that Yahoo,

632
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 4: they accused Egypt. So it's not that Israel had signed

633
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 4: off on the two tweaks that Hamas made.

634
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: It is that the US did.

635
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 4: And Hamas understandably believes that if the US is good

636
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 4: with it, the US can get Israel to go along

637
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 4: with it. And it is a shameful dereliction of leadership

638
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 4: on the part of Biden that the Director of the CIA,

639
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 4: William Burns, can get to a peace deal with Hamas

640
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 4: that he believes is acceptable to the United States, that

641
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 4: is accepted in the United States, and they can't get Israel,

642
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 4: country of like seven million people just dependent on American weapons,

643
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 4: to accept the peace deal.

644
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are you doing if you can't do that?

645
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 11: Yeah?

646
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 5: What else?

647
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

648
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 6: What else? Could? What else could they be doing?

649
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 5: Poorly?

650
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 6: It's a great question how much worse could they be

651
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 6: at this?

652
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: Good Lord?

653
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 4: Yesterday's State Department briefing that was fascinating was the first

654
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 4: This was their first briefing since the massacre in Rafa.

655
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 3: But I want you to notice what they.

656
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 4: Started out with, which is an indication of what they

657
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 4: consider to be the thing that they care most about

658
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 4: in the moment.

659
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 9: I'm going to start with comments on a couple of

660
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 9: things before going to your questions. First of aull Off

661
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 9: as it relates to Georgia. Earlier today, the Georgian Parliament

662
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,959
Speaker 9: voted to override the Georgian President's veto of an anti

663
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 9: democratic foreign influence bill that fails to conform to European norms,

664
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 9: effectively turning the bill into law. The United States condemns

665
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 9: this action. In passing this law, the ruling Georgian Dream

666
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 9: Party moved the country farther away from the European integration

667
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 9: path and ignored the euro Atlantic aspirations of the Georgian people,

668
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 9: who have taken to the streets for weeks to oppose

669
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 9: this law. The Georgian Dream has disregarded the Council of

670
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 9: Europe's Venice Commission legal assessment and that of George's closest partners,

671
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 9: who made clear their concerns that the law would stigmatize

672
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 9: civil society and media and limit fundamental freedoms. The ruling

673
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 9: party's actions and anti Western rhetoric threatened Georgia's democratic trajectory,

674
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 9: future economic security, EU membership, and also put the US

675
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 9: Georgia relationship at risk. Last week, Secretary Blincn announced that

676
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 9: anyone who undermines democratic processes or institutions in Georgia, as

677
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 9: well as their immediate family members, may be found ineligible

678
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 9: for US visas under a newly announced policy precluding travel

679
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 9: to the United States. The United States has also launched

680
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 9: a comprehensive review of bilateral cooperation between the United States

681
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 9: and Georgia. As Secretary Blincoln said last week, we will

682
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 9: take Georgia Dreams, Georgia Dreams actions into account as we

683
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 9: decide our own. The United States continues to stand by

684
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 9: the Georgian people as they work for a democratic and

685
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 9: western future. It is unfortunate that George's leaders are choosing

686
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 9: to forego the steps needed to advance Georgia in the

687
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 9: western direction that its people want.

688
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 4: Learning to Gaza, that is the State Department angry, and

689
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 4: so let's let's unpack what that heck is going on here.

690
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 4: So Georgia dream Is is a kind of hard to

691
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 4: define political party, which is basically the governing governing party

692
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 4: in Georgia. And they're harder to find because they were

693
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 4: built in opposition to this neoliberal party. That that had

694
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 4: been dominant in Georgia before, and so because they were

695
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 4: kind of a popular front against a thing that brought

696
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 4: together a bunch of disparate entities, sort of like the

697
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 4: way that here on this network, we all hate neoliberalism.

698
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 4: So imagine we put together a political party that was

699
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 4: like me, Crystal, you and Sager because we hate the neoliberals,

700
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 4: and we get them out of power. Then we've got

701
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 4: the problem of we got to govern. Yeah, and there's

702
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 4: gonna be some things we disagree on.

703
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 6: What are we going to do about the pronouns.

704
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, we agreed that we did not like the Georgia neoliberals,

705
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 4: but yes, now we got a government.

706
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: So some of what.

707
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 4: The Georgia Dream has done is really cool, like lots

708
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 4: of social welfare stuff, universal health care, also some progressive

709
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 4: social stuff, certainly relative to the area. At the same time,

710
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 4: they've got some victor orban allied elements as well. There's

711
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 4: some you know, some far right elements that are kind.

712
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 6: Of saying they're pro women and family.

713
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 3: There you go, but there, yeah, exactly, So they're hostile to.

714
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 4: Hostile to neoliberalism from the far right, and so it's

715
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: the power inside that coalition kind of seesaws. So setting

716
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 4: that aside, all of those elements are ones that the

717
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 4: State Department doesn't like. Separately, they're considered to be friendlier

718
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 4: to Russia and relatedly than the Neoliberals were. The Neoliberals

719
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 4: were very lockstep with the EU. It's not as if

720
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 4: Georgia Georgia dream is like radically pro Russia. But for instance,

721
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 4: when Russia invaded Ukraine, Georgia supported Ukraine. They said, we

722
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 4: you know, we think this is appalling, but they refused

723
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 4: to take part in the sanctions against Russia. They refused

724
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 4: to arm Ukraine, and Ukraine kept pushing Georgia to quote

725
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 4: unquote open up a second front against Russia because the

726
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 4: Neoliberals when they were running Georgia lost South Ossetia and

727
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 4: some other pieces of Georgia to Russia. If you remember

728
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 4: that war fifteen years ago or whatever, and the world

729
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 4: still says that's Georgian territory with Russians.

730
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 3: Russians control it.

731
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 4: So the arm was, hey, you know, pick a fight

732
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 4: with Russia over on this border over here, you know,

733
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 4: don't they deserve it. They stole your land, Like fight them,

734
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 4: and that will also help Ukraine because now Russia will

735
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 4: have to be fighting on multiple fronts. And the Georgi's

736
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 4: Dream Party was like, no, like, we're not doing that

737
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: like that. Yes, we understand that would help you, we

738
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 4: understand that, we're mad that Russia did this to us,

739
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 4: but we would get absolutely annihilated and it would destroy

740
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 4: Georgia's so we're not no, we're not going to do that.

741
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 4: That really ticked off the US, that ticked off the EU.

742
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 4: They start riling up protests in the streets and so

743
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 4: then they come forward, this actually breakaway kind of socialist

744
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 4: faction of Georgia Dream comes forward with this plan that

745
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 4: now the state departments really angry about, which is saying, look,

746
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 4: if you get if you're an NGO or a media

747
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 4: organization and you get more than twenty percent of your

748
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: money from foreign sources, then you have to register basically

749
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 4: as a foreign agent. Georgia legislator says, look, we're just

750
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 4: modeling this after FARA, which the US has. We say no, no, no,

751
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 4: you're modeling it after Russia's of course law, which Russia

752
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 4: has used. Russia has genuinely used to crack down on dissent.

753
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 3: And so.

754
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 4: Is the response from the State Department pretty wild like this.

755
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 4: You say whatever you want about it. They're passing it

756
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 4: democratically through their own legislature. And it's not a unless

757
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 4: I'm missing something, it's not a terribly unreasonably even if

758
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 4: it is aimed at, you know, cracking down on dissent

759
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 4: from some organizations and media outlets that they don't like.

760
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 4: It's kind of George's business if they want to do this,

761
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 4: isn't it.

762
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 5: But you see, Ryan, democracy is on the line around

763
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 5: the world, which is actually what we're going to talk

764
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 5: about in just a minute in the next block. And

765
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 5: it's the Biden administration's line. I forget who who posted

766
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 5: this recently. It's not a new line, but basically that

767
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 5: every time they say democracy, what they really mean like

768
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 5: substitute the word oligarchy when every time the sort of

769
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 5: neoliberal leadership refers to the need to save democracy, just

770
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 5: substitute aligarchy and everything they're saying makes way more sense.

771
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 4: And there's oligarchs everywhere, because the Georgia dream is literally

772
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 4: a product of an oligarch in Georgia, like a flat

773
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 4: in one of these kind of flamboyant culture personality oligarch types.

774
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 5: But they which is interesting because it's like this idea

775
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 5: that we're going to fight.

776
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 6: Oligarchy with oligki, right, So.

777
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 5: Like if you want to make the argument that Donald

778
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 5: Trump is an oligarch and then you're just like the

779
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 5: party of Joe Biden and Hunter Biden and like actual oligarchy.

780
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 5: If your answer is to say, we are, so America

781
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 5: needs to purge allarchy, oligarchy, we need to fight back

782
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 5: against the blah blah blah, and your answers, Joe Biden

783
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 5: and Hillary Clinton.

784
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 6: Well done.

785
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 4: And it was pretty incredible see them saying that they're

786
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 4: going to take they're basically going to sanction like people

787
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 4: involved with this going to.

788
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: Strip their visas.

789
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 4: After covering Pakistan, where Pakistan just completely changes the numbers

790
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 4: of their election, right, like one party wins, the military

791
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 4: goes in and literally changes the numbers so that a

792
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 4: different party wins, and the State Department, you know, doesn't

793
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 4: do anything remotely close to what they're doing here for

794
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 4: a piece of legislation being passed through their kind of

795
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 4: constitutional normal process, as the president, under pressure from the

796
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 4: EU vetoed it, the legislature overrode the veto yesterday.

797
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: That's you know, I mean, you don't like that, go

798
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 3: out and I don't know.

799
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 5: Pour some money into Georgian elections. The vote people are

800
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 5: gonna have to register, but register and vote.

801
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 3: If you don't, go vote in the Georgia elections if

802
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 3: you like. It's just so weird.

803
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 5: By the way, the way Farah works is such a

804
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 5: good and we're gonna be talking about this kind of

805
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 5: on the Friday Show, I assume. But it's such an

806
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 5: example of American oligarchy, and the oligarchs like Tony Podesta

807
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 5: just thought they didn't have to register. Well, they knew

808
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 5: they didn't have to register until by some crazy circumstance,

809
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 5: Donald Trump, the host of Celebrity Apprentice, gets elected President.

810
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 5: Paul mannifort goes to the chopping block, and this drags

811
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 5: Tony Podesta into a scandal that ends the Potesta group.

812
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 5: He's still lobbying, but really just never legister register as

813
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 5: a lobbyist on behalf of Ukraine, even though you know

814
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 5: there are people were talking to CNN at the time,

815
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 5: being like he was obviously having these meetings on the

816
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 5: Hill as a representative of Ukraine, not the shell organization

817
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 5: he set up to disguise it. So Even if you

818
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 5: have a democratically passed legislation like Farah that requires registration,

819
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 5: oligarchs will still find a way to put holes in it.

820
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it just feels like a real who do we

821
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 4: think we are kind of moment.

822
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: I mean, Georgia should just do whatever Georgia wants to do.

823
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's talk about Joe Biden. Let's talk about twenty

824
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 5: twenty four, Donald Trump. Actually, just a lot of updates

825
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 5: from New York City yesterday, Ryan, there was so much

826
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 5: stuff going on in the streets of New York. So

827
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 5: we will start with this first. It's important. This is

828
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,959
Speaker 5: the This is c one. This is an article from

829
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 5: Politico about how Democrats are in full blown quote freak

830
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 5: out over Biden. Now, the subheat of the story is

831
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 5: and also an interesting part of the school. It says

832
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 5: one advisor to major Democratic donors keeps a running list

833
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 5: of reasons Biden could lose.

834
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 6: Someone pointing to an interesting fact.

835
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 5: Out to me yesterday, which is that the debate on

836
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 5: June twenty seventh is suspiciously early, meaning did Democrats want

837
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 5: like a two month cushion if Biden absolutely bombs between

838
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 5: then and the convention in Chicago In mid August. I

839
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 5: think that's actually an interesting question. There are contingencies, contingency

840
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 5: measures that could be put in place, although they're really

841
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 5: really difficult, and there's no consensus candidate other than their

842
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 5: fantasy of Michelle Obama that they could replace Joe Biden with.

843
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 5: At this point, Kamala Harris's favorability is not great. I

844
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 5: know a lot of people want to Gretchen Whitmer or

845
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 5: maybe even Gavin Newsome. It's unclear if those are answers

846
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 5: to the problem, because it seems right now at least

847
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 5: like it would just be a very difficult replacement effort,

848
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 5: although it is possible. There's like some Charlie Kelly math

849
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 5: that you can do on a talk board to figure

850
00:45:59,280 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 5: it out.

851
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 4: Any thing is if they would listen to me, not

852
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 4: that they ever would, I could end this problem for

853
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 4: them immediately. And with Biden still as president, you make

854
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 4: Obama his vice president. People still love Obama, they absolutely

855
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 4: love him. The constitution says that you can't serve more

856
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 4: than ten years and you cannot be elected more than twice.

857
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 4: He is eligible to be elected as vice president. If

858
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 4: Biden died, he would be eligible to elevate from vice

859
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 4: president to president.

860
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: Go ahead, go google the Constitution, read it yourself.

861
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 5: Google the Constitution, It's right in there.

862
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: He could do it. He would then have to resign

863
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: within two years.

864
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 4: So let's say, you know, Biden dies in like March

865
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty five, then Obama could only serve until

866
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 4: March of twenty twenty seven. So then whoever he would

867
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 4: name a vice president, just like Nixon named Ford as

868
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 4: his vice president, and then Obama would have to resign

869
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 4: within two years, and then that person would become the

870
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 4: president for the rest.

871
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 3: Of the term. I think if you had Obama as

872
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 3: Biden's VP.

873
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 4: That people be like, you know what, okay, Like tons

874
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 4: of Democrats really I like, we know him.

875
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 3: And then you've got the nostalgia voters who were like

876
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 3: things were good then and things were good Trump.

877
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 5: This is a good example of why I think there's

878
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 5: intentionally a two month cushion, because there are all kinds

879
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 5: of solutions like this that people can get on board with. Now,

880
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 5: I wouldn't be so worried about Biden's performance at the

881
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 5: debate because whatever they do to Joe Biden drug, whatever

882
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 5: they do before those debates, seems to work. Like he's

883
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 5: good for an hour and a half and then it

884
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 5: starts to go downhill. But I wouldn't be too worried

885
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 5: about the debate in particular. It'd be much more worried.

886
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 4: Bama just showed up instead, just like I'm pinch hitting.

887
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 5: Yeah. But I would be much more worried about the

888
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 5: campaign strategy, which is has been I think clearly focused

889
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 5: on the question. We were just discussing democracy, civility norms,

890
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 5: all on the line, very very similar to the twenty

891
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 5: twenty campaign. This is what was on full display yesterday

892
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 5: in New York. So while Democratic insiders are freaking out

893
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 5: in quote freak out mode to Politico. So these are

894
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 5: people that probably aren't running the day to day campaign,

895
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 5: but presumably are big donors, are strategists. While they're talking

896
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 5: to Politico, here's what the Biden campaign was doing yesterday.

897
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 5: The Biden campaign, not some pack or not some special

898
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 5: interest group, not a media thing.

899
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 6: This was the Biden campaign.

900
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 5: They actually put Robert de Niro out in This was

901
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 5: timed with Donald Trump's trial and the hush money case

902
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 5: with Harry Dunn and I think Michael fanone to January.

903
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 5: Six Capitol police officers who've been high profile opponents of

904
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 5: Trump since January sixth, Robert de Niro, take a look

905
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 5: at some of these clips from Manhattan yesterday.

906
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 13: The city is pretty accommodating. We make room for clouds.

907
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 13: We have them all over the city. People who do

908
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 13: crazy things in the street we tolerated. It's part of

909
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 13: the city. It's part of the culture. But not a

910
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 13: person like Trump who will eventually run the country. That

911
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 13: does not work. And we all know that. Anyway, we

912
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 13: make group of clowns to each his own, but no

913
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 13: one takes him or took them really seriously. They take

914
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 13: them seriously. Now, of course democratic you are, you are,

915
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 13: you're talking.

916
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 6: There are nobody.

917
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 11: Your movie suck.

918
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 5: You're trash, You're trash, You're done.

919
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 13: You're so right.

920
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 5: This was just a peak New York you and Roberts

921
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 5: and you were talking about how great New York is

922
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 5: because we have clowns in the street. As those clowns

923
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 5: in the street, all due respect, are shouting at him,

924
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 5: and like in the background of the first clip that

925
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 5: was a little bit more quiet, there were still people

926
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 5: shouting at him.

927
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 6: And in the second clip, he was being.

928
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 5: Escorted away from a mob and the guy in a

929
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 5: maga hat saying you're nobody. Your movies are trash, like

930
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 5: just classic behavior.

931
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 3: The hate his politics. Movies are great.

932
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 6: Well, it spends on which movies you're talking about. Some

933
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 6: of the movies are trash.

934
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 3: Do enough movies. I guess some are going to be trash.

935
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 5: Well, actually, this particular Trump voter might want to take

936
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 5: another look at Taxi.

937
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 9: There you go.

938
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 5: It was just a perfect New York scene. But I

939
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 5: think also Ryan just this strategy we have seen since

940
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 5: literally twenty sixteen of taking celebrities out to talk about

941
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 5: how horrible Donald Trump is. And this was outside the trial,

942
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 5: which Joe Biden is he again, this was leaked to media.

943
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 5: He's ready, he's prepared to address it at the White

944
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 5: House so that whatever the verdict is, he will finally

945
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,479
Speaker 5: address this trial when the verdict comes out out whatever

946
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 5: it is, but he's going to do it from the

947
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 5: White House so that it doesn't look political. That's an

948
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 5: actual contention.

949
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 3: As opposed to a rally, like, yes, does he do rallies?

950
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 5: I mean he's I think he's in campaign in Philadelphia

951
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 5: something like that. But because again the verdict could come

952
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 5: at any moment, the jury is quite literally out today,

953
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 5: So we could have a verdict in you know, it

954
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 5: could be days, could be today. I suspect it will

955
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 5: probably take a little bit of time.

956
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 3: But uh, they got to thirty four votes, right, thirty

957
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 3: four charges?

958
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so yeah, it could take a while. So

959
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 5: the Biden administration is saying, you know, we don't we

960
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 5: don't see this as political.

961
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 6: This is just about democracy and decency.

962
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 5: And then they're trying out Robert de Niro in the

963
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 5: streets of New York, like outside the courthouse where we

964
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 5: saw all kinds of Republicans doing the political speeches last

965
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 5: week too. It just, you know, I think their campaign

966
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 5: strategy really sucks, to be honest, but there's an argument

967
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 5: that it could. You know, it's the thing that gets

968
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 5: the suburban housewives to turn out. I don't know if

969
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 5: Robert Niro is the answer to that, but.

970
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 4: One of the top quotes from that political article was quote,

971
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 4: you don't want to be that guy who is on

972
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 4: the record saying we're doomed where the campaign's bad or

973
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 4: Biden's making mistakes. Nobody wants to be that guy, said

974
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 4: a Democratic operative in close touch with the White House

975
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 4: and granted anonymy to speak freely, but Biden's stubbornly Portpoli

976
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 4: and the stakes of the election quote are creating the.

977
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 3: Freakout, he said, yep.

978
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 4: So I mean it's a bunch of quotes like that

979
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 4: from people who are freaking out. But it's hard to

980
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 4: take the freaking out seriously when all of these people

981
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 4: had a year plus to publicly freak out and then

982
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 4: actually change the reality and have an actual open primary

983
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 4: by putting pressure on Biden to not run for election,

984
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 4: but none of them wanted to do so because all

985
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 4: of them would pay some little tiny cost, So collectively

986
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 4: they all just decided to let the party make a

987
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 4: catastrophic decision with according to them, the fate of the

988
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 4: free world yes at stake.

989
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 3: And so it's hard.

990
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 4: To take them seriously when they say that they really

991
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 4: believe the fate of the free world is at stake

992
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 4: if you're not willing to take a little tiny risk

993
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 4: yeah to defend it.

994
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, And especially, I mean it really does ring hollow

995
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 5: when you have a Hollywood multi millionaire actor being trotted

996
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 5: out in New York outside at courthouse for a case

997
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 5: that is not political but about democracy and decency, and

998
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 5: yet there's an extremely strong argument, even from people on

999
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 5: the left, that is a trumped up political case that

1000
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 5: Alvin Bragg did some intended to do, some intended to do,

1001
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 5: some novel legal maneuvering to make it a felony and

1002
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 5: a campaign finance violation because the statute of limitations had

1003
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 5: elapsed on the financial Like the what's the best way

1004
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 5: to describe the crime that's alleged to have.

1005
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 3: Been the sanctity of business records must be upheld?

1006
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, in New York. Yes, the sanctity of business records

1007
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 5: must be upell in New York, which, by the way,

1008
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 5: I'm on board with if it's going to be a

1009
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 5: blied and a truly non oligarchical partisan manner. But when

1010
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 5: you have Robert de Niro and you're in your strategy

1011
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 5: is bringing out Harry Dunn, who just lost in Robert

1012
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 5: de Niro to talk about this outside of courtroom while

1013
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 5: you are pretending to take the high road. It's a

1014
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 5: ridiculous strategy, I think. And it's approaching ten years of

1015
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 5: Democrats talking about nothing serious to voters. I mean, obviously

1016
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 5: they do sometimes I'm speaking in somewhat hyperbole here, but

1017
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 5: it's like ten years of Democrats fixating on these ridiculous

1018
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 5: arguments against Donald Trump himself instead of policies, and there

1019
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 5: are problems, like there are actual substance of problems with

1020
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 5: Donald Trump. I get it. With the style of somebody

1021
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 5: who's tweeting about Mika Brazinski's facelift as president, I get it.

1022
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 5: I think there are substance of questions about the style.

1023
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 5: But it's been their fixation for approaching a decade, and

1024
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 5: it's clearly a crutch. It's clearly become a crutch for

1025
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 5: Democrats because they're uncertain of how to win the argument.

1026
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 5: They're unwilling to I think even try to win the

1027
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 5: argument with some of those Obama Trump voters in the

1028
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 5: rust belt, even you know, black voters who are moving

1029
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 5: towards Trump, not just away from Biden, but towards Trump,

1030
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 5: and not an overwhelming numbers, but in historic numbers according

1031
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 5: to some polling. It's much easier for Democrats to try

1032
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 5: to just turn out with educated, suburban voters through stuff

1033
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 5: like this instead of, you know, trying to win on

1034
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 5: the merits of policy stubsms for people who feel like

1035
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 5: this economy sucks for them.

1036
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 4: And I still think Trump could lose, Oh absolutely, The

1037
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 4: part I can't quite figure out, and maybe you can

1038
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 4: help me with this is how so the end of

1039
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 4: democracy argument would require Trump to then get a third term.

1040
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: Right, In order for Trump to get a third term, he.

1041
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 4: Would need either the support of the Supreme Court to

1042
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 4: do that or the military.

1043
00:55:58,920 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 3: I understand.

1044
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,240
Speaker 4: I guess why Democrats think the Supreme Court would support

1045
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 4: him in that, because he appointed a bunch of them

1046
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 4: and it's a right wing Supreme Court. But a closer

1047
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 4: understanding of this Supreme Court does not have them in this.

1048
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 4: They haven't been coalition together, but not not in a

1049
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 4: sense that they want Trump to kind of be some

1050
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:22,399
Speaker 4: permanent dictator like John Roberts would prefer the Reagan era

1051
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 4: type of republican Mitt Romneyer.

1052
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 5: The same with somebody Neil Gorsich, same with any Amy Coney, Barrett.

1053
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 5: And you can maybe make an argument about Alito and Thomas,

1054
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 5: but the others.

1055
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think Alito and Thomas would be there

1056
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 4: for the revolution perhaps, but that's that's two votes.

1057
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 6: Perhaps.

1058
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 3: I think you, I think you would.

1059
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 4: You can legitimately worry about them absolutely from the left, Yeah,

1060
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 4: definitely the military though, Okay, that's a very pro democracy.

1061
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 5: Institution, very anti Trump institute, very.

1062
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 4: Anti Trump institution, very pro civilian control of the government institution.

1063
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 4: And I don't think enough people there aren't enough like

1064
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 4: sergeants that you could make four star generals to take

1065
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 4: over the military in four years, Senate, it's not going to.

1066
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: Let you do that. I don't. I just don't. I

1067
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 3: don't see the path.

1068
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the freak out over American institutions somehow

1069
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 5: being easily swayed by Donald Trump is absurd because, if anything,

1070
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 5: our institutions have hardened themselves against Donald Trump. Even if

1071
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 5: the Pentagon, for example, supported Trump era policies that felt

1072
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 5: very neo conservative to some people because John Bolton's of

1073
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 5: the world in his administration. Even then, the style substance

1074
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 5: of Donald Trump is abhorrent to a lot of top

1075
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 5: brass and the military, and over at the.

1076
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 4: Pendentmon I don't think there's enough time to get rid

1077
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 4: of all that top brass and put in because the

1078
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 4: path to that type of dominance would be replacing the

1079
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 4: entire leadership of the DOJ and the military with nothing

1080
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 4: but Trump loyalists.

1081
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not something you can do with schedule a foot.

1082
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 3: Well, I'll try to get rid of that.

1083
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 4: But like, but even that's I just think physically, they

1084
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 4: don't they don't have the they don't have the bodies.

1085
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe.

1086
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 4: I'm wrong, Maybe Democrats will have the last will laugh

1087
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 4: when I'm up against the wall.

1088
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 3: After Trump's revolution, We'll see.

1089
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 5: That was a really dark turn. All right, Let's move

1090
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 5: on to some news actually out of Harvard that we

1091
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 5: wanted to pair with the interview Barry Weiss conducted with

1092
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 5: Jerry Seinfeld over at the Free Press yesterday. So just

1093
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 5: to contextualize this, we're going to be talking about Harvard

1094
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 5: starting to say we are going to have a policy

1095
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 5: of institutional neutrality along the lines of, you know, something

1096
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 5: like the University of Chicago. Although important observers or observers

1097
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 5: have pointed out something important, which is that we don't

1098
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 5: know how Harvard will interpret this yet. But obviously Harvard

1099
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 5: has been reeling since the Claudine Gates has the morning

1100
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 5: after October seventh, then the encampment, and it's been.

1101
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 6: A hell of a year for Harvard.

1102
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 5: Now, in his interview with Barry Weiss, Jerry Seinfeld, who

1103
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 5: just gave a majorly viral commencement address at Duke University

1104
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 5: addressed some of what he sees among young people.

1105
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 10: Let's roll this clip, and so you yourself have become

1106
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 10: politicized in a way.

1107
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 5: A little bit.

1108
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you feel that?

1109
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 5: I do you comfortable with it?

1110
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 3: It's so dumb. It's so dumb.

1111
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 14: In fact, when we get protesters occasionally, I love to

1112
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 14: say to the audience, you know, I love that these

1113
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 14: young people, they are trying to get engaged with politics.

1114
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 14: We have to just correct their aim a little bit.

1115
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 14: You know, they don't seem to be understand that as

1116
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 14: comedians we really.

1117
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 3: Don't control anything, right, right, right, No one's really uh no,

1118
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 3: you're pulling.

1119
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 10: The strings over the war in Gosnel. Yeah, that's how

1120
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 10: I think of it. Yeah, yeah, you were in Israel. Yeah,

1121
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 10: since the war started.

1122
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 5: How is that.

1123
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 14: Trip the most powerful experience of my life?

1124
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 6: Really?

1125
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 3: I'm sure? Yeah? Why you know it? Just yeah?

1126
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 4: That clip was shared by Israel's official Twitter account. Yes,

1127
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 4: and then the conversation went on from there. We could

1128
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 4: roll this next clip from it.

1129
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 10: A huge part of the way you think about comedy

1130
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 10: is how the audience never lies, m right, But what

1131
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 10: happens if a lot of people are wrong? In other words,

1132
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 10: there is a I don't think Jews do well in

1133
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 10: an age of mobs, and I feel that right now

1134
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 10: in our culture, it's really easy to form mobs.

1135
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 3: Yes, really easy.

1136
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 10: And what's the difference between the audience never lying? But

1137
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 10: when does the audience kind of tip into the mob?

1138
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 10: Do you see where I'm going with them?

1139
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 6: I do?

1140
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 3: I do? There's something they Yeah.

1141
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 10: But I really have been wanting to ask you about,

1142
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 10: Like for someone that relies on the truth telling of

1143
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 10: the audience to tell you whether or not something is funny?

1144
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 5: Hm?

1145
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 10: What does that same principle apply to a massive people?

1146
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 6: Do you see what I mean?

1147
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 14: Hm? Well, you can't act like we don't see this

1148
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 14: every day in many realms. Let's just talk politically, left

1149
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 14: and right. You're watching mobs, their mobs, their mobs, believing

1150
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 14: their own crap. Right, Yeah, that's what a political party is.

1151
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 14: We're going to make up a bunch of nonsense and

1152
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 14: we'll all agree to it, right right, Okay, let's print

1153
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 14: up some bumper stickers and get out there, kids.

1154
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 3: That's politics.

1155
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 14: So we're tribal animals, we're social creatures. We look for

1156
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 14: agreement and consensus. We're driven by agreement and consensus and

1157
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 14: mob rule gives us comfort, gives us certainty. It's all bs.

1158
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 13: You know.

1159
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 5: I can actually say to the point about Seinfeld explaining

1160
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 5: that his trip to his October seventh was the most

1161
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 5: powerful experience of his life, I can imagine that's true

1162
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 5: basically no matter who you are. I mean humanitarian tragedy,

1163
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 5: catastrophe that unfolded after October seventh. Your point about Israel

1164
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 5: sharing the clip, the Israeli government sharing the clip on

1165
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 5: X I think is really interesting as well. But you know,

1166
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 5: the second part of that is what you added that

1167
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 5: to the show. You wanted to hear what he said

1168
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 5: about mob rule. There was a walkout in his speech

1169
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 5: at Duke actually people just walked out of it, which

1170
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 5: it seemed like he was alluding to what stood out

1171
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,479
Speaker 5: to you in that argument about mobral And.

1172
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 4: My view on the whole Seinfeld thing was that I

1173
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 4: think it was like, so the reason that the propile

1174
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 4: sign protests started going after Seinfeld is that his his

1175
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 4: well a, he was kind of outspoken in supportive of

1176
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 4: the Israeli war effort, but also his wife was directly

1177
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 4: funding the count the campus counter protests, and those counter

1178
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 4: protests like actually genuinely got violent and weren't quite vile

1179
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 4: in their kind of Islamophobic rhetoric and sometimes anti Semitic rhetoric,

1180
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 4: so to protest against like you know, you're putting yourself

1181
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 4: in the arena if you're financing counter protests, and yes,

1182
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 4: but my view on it was people as a billionaire,

1183
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 4: yeah the way, I'm sure, yeah, she's got that Seinfeld money, yep.

1184
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 3: But my view of it.

1185
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 4: Was people don't really know that, and they're just going

1186
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 4: to think you're just protesting Seinfel because he's Jewish, which

1187
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 4: isn't what you know, isn't what people were doing. Because

1188
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 4: they had this organized a specific reason for it, I

1189
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 4: was gonna, I thought, would blow up in their.

1190
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: Face if they if they went forward with it.

1191
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 4: And then I thought it was interesting to hear kind

1192
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 4: of Seinfeld's own kind of political analysis, just to show

1193
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 4: how vacuous it is, like to say that that all

1194
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 4: political parties and political formations are just mere tribal associations

1195
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 4: of people organizing together just to make themselves feel good

1196
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 4: and and get that sense of come camaraderie ignores everything

1197
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 4: we don't know about, like political movements and political parties,

1198
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 4: like there are actual agendas and there are things that

1199
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 4: people are fighting for materially, spear virtually, and so to

1200
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 4: like ignore that just shows like it kind of makes

1201
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 4: his point in some ways that that he really is

1202
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 4: not anybody who's like really deeply, you know, thought about

1203
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 4: politics ever, so it's like, yeah, he is kind of

1204
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 4: he but so many comedians, of course, are very political.

1205
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 3: Comedy is very often political.

1206
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 4: Yes, if there's any comedian who's been a political it

1207
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 4: has been Seinfeld, you know, just talking about you know,

1208
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 4: how but not so much just how it sucks to

1209
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 4: like fly on airplanes.

1210
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 5: It's not so much a political is transpolitical and that

1211
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 5: it's it's transpartisan, I guess, you know, it's It sort

1212
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 5: of reminds me of the Johnny Carson approach, which was

1213
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 5: really popular in the era of mass media. Like that's

1214
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 5: the example when I talk to students about this that

1215
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 5: I always use is like Johnny Carson was constantly political,

1216
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 5: just it wasn't partisan humor wasn't like Stephen Colbert, who

1217
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 5: is now the number one host in late like in

1218
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,439
Speaker 5: the Johnny Carson slot. Because we're not in the era

1219
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 5: of mass media anymore. And I feel like Seinfeld is

1220
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 5: really struggling with that the new reality that people in

1221
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 5: these niches, you know, maybe they represent twenty or thirty

1222
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 5: percent of the country now have abolish a lot of

1223
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 5: gatekeeping and are ascendant. And you know, when people walk

1224
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 5: out of his Duke commencement speech, that gets a lot

1225
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 5: of headlines because a lot of the gatekeepers are gone,

1226
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 5: and new media can write about it. We can talk

1227
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 5: about it here, and I think that's a It's a

1228
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 5: really new world for him. In fact, he said in

1229
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 5: the Duke speech, the slightly uncomfortable feeling of awkward humor

1230
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 5: is okay, It's not something you need to fix. I

1231
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 5: totally admire the ambitions of your generation and create a

1232
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 5: more just and inclusive society. I think it's also wonderful

1233
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 5: that you care so much about not hurting other people's

1234
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 5: feelings and the million in one ways, we all do

1235
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 5: that every second of every day. It's lovely to want

1236
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 5: to fix those things. But all caps. But what I

1237
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 5: need to tell you as a comedian, do not lose

1238
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 5: your sense of humor. You have no idea at this

1239
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 5: point in your life how much you're going to need

1240
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 5: it to get through. Not enough of life makes sense

1241
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 5: for you to be able to survive it without humor.

1242
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 5: I think you and I both agree with those sentiments exactly,

1243
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 5: but it's it's not arguing against the point that his

1244
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 5: opponents are making, which is that there's there's just nothing

1245
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 5: funny about like that was The way they're arguing is

1246
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 5: they're talking about genocide and they walked out of a

1247
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 5: speech because of genocide. They opposed the speech because of

1248
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 5: what they see as genocide, and so coming back at

1249
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 5: that by saying, ay, just let your hair down.

1250
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I don't even I don't really even think

1251
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 4: his show was transpartisan in the sense that he take

1252
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 4: him out his word, like he was saying it was

1253
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 4: a show about nothing, and in the nineties, the country

1254
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 4: really was ready for a show about nothing.

1255
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 6: But he didn't.

1256
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 5: There was political He would make jokes about political things.

1257
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 5: It wasn't in your face, but like there were jokes

1258
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 5: about history and politics, and they would you.

1259
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 4: Know they were I guess. But it's just completely shorn

1260
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 4: of any meaning whatsoever.

1261
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 6: Yeh, that's absolutely true. And I think that's what's.

1262
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 4: Interesting as Larry David has continued the theme of like

1263
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 4: just a completely trivial show, but he dives into political issues. Yes,

1264
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 4: because he I think because you have to now because

1265
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 4: of the polarized political climate we're in, and Seinfeld is

1266
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 4: on this belated kind of anti woke.

1267
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 5: Theme now, although he was there early, like I think

1268
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 5: in twenty fifteen sixteen he came out and said, I'm

1269
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 5: not doing campuses anymore, and it was like Seinfeld and

1270
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 5: Chris Rocks.

1271
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 3: That Seinfeld was getting cancer. Like what was Seinfeld saying?

1272
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 6: I think he was saying people didn't have a good

1273
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 6: sense of humor.

1274
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 5: So I feel like he's been on that, but he's

1275
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 5: not realizing that.

1276
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 6: Maybe they do have a sense of humor.

1277
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 5: I mean, I could probably there are some people I

1278
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 5: think probably do need a sense of humor, but it's

1279
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 5: just a better sense of humor. But it's just that

1280
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 5: the things that he wants to talk about, people aren't

1281
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,560
Speaker 5: seeing the humor in those particular.

1282
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 4: His post Seinfeld stand up was like, I'm not saying

1283
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 4: anything controversially, it just hasn't been that good. It's not

1284
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 4: like he hasn't been that like great, and it's made

1285
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 4: a lot of people say, wait a minute, was it

1286
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 4: really Larry David the whole time that was the genius

1287
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 4: behind that show the whole.

1288
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 5: Time You know, I've never been a huge Seinfeld person.

1289
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 5: I love Curb, never been a huge Seinfold person, But

1290
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 5: I think you can He's obviously very smart, and I

1291
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 5: think I agree with you that.

1292
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,200
Speaker 3: I don't thing's thought through some of this stuff.

1293
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 5: But yeah, maybe where we agree on this is that

1294
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 5: he's I really think he's struggling to deal with the

1295
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 5: new reality of the country, Like it's not the country

1296
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 5: of the nineteen nineties when his show was like extraordinarily

1297
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 5: popular and Seinfeld is still popular. Barry made that point

1298
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 5: in the Free Press post, it's so extremely popular, but

1299
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 5: that doesn't you know, we're so nichefied that it's not

1300
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,679
Speaker 5: the same thing as people all sitting down at nine

1301
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 5: pm and tuning into Seinfeld and talking about it at

1302
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 5: the water coil the next day. He really has to

1303
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 5: grapple with the lack of gap of gatekeeping and what

1304
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 5: that means for a culture that's going in a million

1305
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 5: different directions.

1306
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 6: It's not like, hey, we can all have a.

1307
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 5: Good laugh about this, you know, joke in regard to silly,

1308
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 5: crazy conservatives. It's more like, hmm, people are on wildly

1309
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 5: different pages.

1310
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 3: And he's got a grapple with not having Larry David, that's.

1311
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 5: Probably the real handicap that's really struggling. Yeah, probably the

1312
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 5: real handicap there. All right, let's move on to Argentina,

1313
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 5: where I sent this to our producers earlier, where you

1314
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 5: had Hoavier. A headline from Bloomberg April twenty fifth, twenty

1315
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:43,639
Speaker 5: twenty four, Javier Melee fuels wild rally that makes payso

1316
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,680
Speaker 5: number one in world, with a headline recently from the

1317
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 5: Financial Times. Just in the last week, Argentina's Payso plunges

1318
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 5: in warning light for Melay. We could put the first

1319
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 5: element up on the screen here. Question, Ryan is what's

1320
01:10:57,640 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 5: closer to the truth. So Melee actually swapped a cabinet

1321
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 5: chief in what Reuters referred to as a major government

1322
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 5: shake up. There's sort of a wild ride done in

1323
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 5: Argentina right now. He's been covorting with Sam Altman and

1324
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,640
Speaker 5: talking about the importance of artificial intelligence. And if you

1325
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,719
Speaker 5: take Mela at his word, he will say, and any

1326
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,640
Speaker 5: libertarian engaged in an experiment like this, a lab experiment

1327
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 5: like this sort of trying to come back from Peronism,

1328
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 5: as he says, would say that it's going to You're

1329
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 5: going to have your ups and downs. You know, necessarily

1330
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 5: you're going to hit some obstacles just when you're doing

1331
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 5: things like trying to fix an economy that was stagnant,

1332
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 5: if not.

1333
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 6: Worse, for years and years and years. So what do

1334
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 6: you think is closer to the truth on this Ryan?

1335
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 5: Is this an amazing recovery or is this the peso

1336
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:53,680
Speaker 5: plunging and Melay being thrust into chaos in his own cabinet.

1337
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,240
Speaker 3: I mean, Argentina is like a giant mess. It's fun.

1338
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 4: It's maybe we can have fun at Mela's expense, you know,

1339
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 4: through three inflation.

1340
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 6: And that's not his fault.

1341
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 3: The country is.

1342
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 4: The country's political structures make it almost ungovernable. Like you,

1343
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 4: it's it's very hard for anybody to get elected in

1344
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 4: Argentina and then actually implement an agenda because of the

1345
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 4: way that different power centers are able to stop anything

1346
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 4: from happening. And I think one reason Argentine voters elected

1347
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 4: him is because they thought, well, maybe maybe this will

1348
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 4: shake like they didn't necessarily think he was the answer,

1349
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 4: but it was like a Trump light ninety three kind

1350
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 4: of thing where it's like, maybe this will shake things

1351
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 4: up so much that something something has to give.

1352
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 3: And so you can put up this first vo here.

1353
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 4: Basically, now he's trying to slash university university spending is

1354
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 4: what's going on. So in three hundred percent inflation, he's

1355
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 4: trying to hold university subsidies.

1356
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 5: Flat, and he has slash a lot of the governments

1357
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,600
Speaker 5: already the first five months here, So that means.

1358
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 4: You're facing what a you know, three hundred percent cut

1359
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 4: basically because because now you know, it costs three times

1360
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 4: as much as it used to, and you're getting just

1361
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 4: the same kind of subsidy towards it as you were

1362
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 4: getting before. His his argument is that this would bring

1363
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 4: inflation finally under control. You know clearly that markets don't

1364
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 4: necessarily agree with that. The police are now joining in

1365
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 4: with the student protesters. The universities said that eight hundred

1366
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 4: thousand people were in the streets protesting. Mele said it

1367
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 4: was one hundred and fifty thousand people of people either way, right,

1368
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:54,919
Speaker 4: And so yeah, they're just kind of locked in the standoff.

1369
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,639
Speaker 4: We knew would be coming, and we also know where

1370
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 4: this heads is towards violence. And so the question then becomes,

1371
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 4: do the police do the libertarians bidding and crack down

1372
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,759
Speaker 4: on these protests? Or did the police end up siding

1373
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 4: with the protesters, and then you're kind of back to

1374
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 4: square one of people being able to protect some of

1375
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 4: the subsidies that they have, but not being able to

1376
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 4: then actually enact anything rational more broadly.

1377
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 6: Well, and on the other side of this, the argument.

1378
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 5: Is going to be that his big reforms that you're

1379
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 5: just talking about are stalled and that could potentially be

1380
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 5: affecting the market. I'm sure that is affecting the market,

1381
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 5: that his package that he wants to get through to

1382
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 5: address this nearly three hundred percent inflation has been stalled,

1383
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 5: and you know, maybe that's why his cabinet chief is

1384
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 5: being switched up again within the first five months here.

1385
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 5: So I mean, I do genuinely think that it's hard

1386
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 5: to judge what happens under me Lea by the first

1387
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 5: five months here based on if you're comparing it to

1388
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 5: what his claimed vision is. It just you don't really know.

1389
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 5: Unless the economic reform package he can take all of

1390
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,720
Speaker 5: the things that he can do by himself as an executive,

1391
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 5: and if he doesn't have them passed through Congress, if

1392
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 5: he doesn't have additional things passed through Congress, you know,

1393
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 5: then you're just bandaiating things in an effort to bring

1394
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 5: down three hundred percent inflation and potentially hurting people along

1395
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 5: the way. Now, if his economic reforms go through and

1396
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 5: you see an adaptation in the private sector, all of

1397
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:35,520
Speaker 5: this is like really wishful thinking on behalf of libertarians.

1398
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 6: And you, I mean, you.

1399
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:41,679
Speaker 5: Still have fairly sophisticated economists and disagreement about the effect

1400
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 5: of the Reagan tax cuts and versus defense spending and

1401
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,440
Speaker 5: all of that. And we can get into those arguments

1402
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:51,679
Speaker 5: about you know, Liz Trust and all of that good

1403
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 5: stuff about whether true libertarianism has ever been tried. You know,

1404
01:15:57,560 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 5: My particular opinion on that as a conservative is that

1405
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 5: these true libertarian experiments really I never work in the

1406
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 5: real world because you're not in a sort of perfect

1407
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,679
Speaker 5: Petrie dish environment where there's a way to say, yeah,

1408
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 5: we'll just slash the government and things will be great.

1409
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 6: It'll bring inflation down.

1410
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 5: But it seems possible to me that a course correction

1411
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 5: could be in a good direction when all is sudden done.

1412
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,799
Speaker 5: But I don't know that that's what we're seeing actually

1413
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 5: play out, although I would say that from my perspective

1414
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 5: at least, it's too early to have a conclusion on

1415
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 5: what will happen.

1416
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 3: I think you put up the third element, this article

1417
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:32,600
Speaker 3: from Reuter's.

1418
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 4: You know, economic activity down eight point four percent year

1419
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 4: over year in March, and if you dig into it,

1420
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:44,759
Speaker 4: the biggest collapse was in construction, a thirty percent decline

1421
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 4: in economic activity. And so that's not inflation, that's thirty

1422
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 4: percent less construction getting going.

1423
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:54,599
Speaker 5: Although Mela retweeted someone who said everything within expectations that

1424
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 5: about these numbers, he said everything within expectations after a

1425
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 5: strong initial devaluation. So again, this idea that we're on

1426
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 5: the it's almost like a material dialectical materialism like Gailia

1427
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,679
Speaker 5: and like we're on the plan is preceding a pace.

1428
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 4: There you go, and it's manufacturing down twenty percent. Argentina's

1429
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 4: a mess. But he's a rock star, right, so yeah,

1430
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 4: you gotta check this. The real reason we wanted to

1431
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 4: cover this is so that we could play this clip

1432
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 4: of the president Milaie up on stage.

1433
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 6: Incredible passage. There you go, leaving it all on the field.

1434
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 3: There you go more do you want?

1435
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, while we're on international topics, let's talk about

1436
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 5: Julian Assange, because Donald Trump here at home, actually on

1437
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 5: the sidelines, actually speaking of libertarians, on the sidelines of

1438
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 5: the Libertarian Party convention this last weekend here in Washington,

1439
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 5: d C. Dave Smith talked a little bit about it

1440
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,719
Speaker 5: on Breaking Points yesterday, but on the sidelines, Tim Poole

1441
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 5: interviewed Donald Trump and asked him about Julian Assange. Now,

1442
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 5: viewers will remember we had Gabriel Shipton, Julian Nosange's brother,

1443
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 5: on the show last week, and he fleshed out a

1444
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 5: bit about how the Assange case is becoming a real

1445
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 5: wedge issue in geopolitical negotiations between the United States and Australia,

1446
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 5: which an important alliance if the US is to be

1447
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 5: worried about Taiwan and what people see is the China threat.

1448
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 5: So all that is to say, Donald Trump's comments to

1449
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 5: Tim Poole are pretty interesting and I think of some serious,

1450
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:36,719
Speaker 5: some real consequence. Here's what Donald Trump told Tim Poole

1451
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 5: about whether or not he would pardon Julian Nossange. Will

1452
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:41,520
Speaker 5: you pardon Julian Nosange.

1453
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,200
Speaker 15: Well, I'm going to talk about that today and we're

1454
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 15: going to give it very serious consideration, and we're going

1455
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 15: to have a couple of other things to say in

1456
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 15: this speech that I think you're going to love.

1457
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 5: I've heard some rumors and you've gotten so much out

1458
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 5: of me.

1459
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 6: I should leave a little bit for the speech.

1460
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 5: Don't you get that, mister President, is an honor and

1461
01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 5: a privilege.

1462
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 3: I do appreciate you saying you're I have to.

1463
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,960
Speaker 15: Say when I I did a little research. Yeah, some

1464
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 15: of my guys said that I met you before, but

1465
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:08,759
Speaker 15: they said, just a very respected catch, my honor.

1466
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 5: Temple also related to Donald Trump that he recently said

1467
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 5: he had a nice face, that Tempoole has a nice Yeah.

1468
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 5: Then he said that Temple, Donald Trump said that to

1469
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 5: Tempole that he is a nice face.

1470
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 3: Does he have a nice face?

1471
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:25,280
Speaker 6: I think all faces are nice.

1472
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:25,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1473
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 4: There you go, now to unpack Trump's thoughts on a

1474
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 4: sound and also Edward Snowden. He was asked about this

1475
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:37,479
Speaker 4: also by Cannis Owens, and see if you can almost

1476
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 4: kind of see the trembling in his voice as he

1477
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 4: talks about.

1478
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,920
Speaker 3: This, like it's like the deep State is really in

1479
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 3: his head.

1480
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:48,240
Speaker 4: But here's Jared, here's the here's this back and forth

1481
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:49,720
Speaker 4: he had with Canda Owens.

1482
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 16: A name that comes to mind in the news recently

1483
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 16: is Julian Julian Assange. You know, he was exposing this

1484
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 16: corruption early on. He's had his life ruined because of it.

1485
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:58,559
Speaker 16: It's a really sad story. Edward Snowden, I mean, think

1486
01:19:58,560 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 16: about that.

1487
01:19:58,960 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 6: Bravery for me.

1488
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 16: I was quite young when that was going on. But

1489
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 16: I mean the idea of saying, hey, whistle blowing, Actually

1490
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 16: we've got some corruption going on. They're not being honest

1491
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 16: with the American people. You could have had a chance

1492
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 16: a part of these individuals. Why do side not to

1493
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 16: in that moment?

1494
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 15: You have two sides of it. In one case you

1495
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 15: have like sort of a spy deal going on, and

1496
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 15: in another case you have somebody that's exposing real corruption.

1497
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 15: I feel a little bit I won't say which one,

1498
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,639
Speaker 15: but I feel a little bit more strongly about one

1499
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 15: than the other. Right, But and you probably understand that.

1500
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 15: But I could have done it. But I will say,

1501
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 15: you have people on both sides of that issue, good

1502
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:37,679
Speaker 15: people on both sides, and you have some bad people

1503
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 15: on one side. But I decided to let that one ride,

1504
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:42,680
Speaker 15: let the courts work it out.

1505
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 6: I love that.

1506
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,800
Speaker 5: One of the biggest controversies of his presidency was the

1507
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 5: good people on both sides moment, which I still take

1508
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 5: issue with a lot of the reporting on that, and

1509
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 5: he's just still going with it. Very good people on

1510
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 5: both sides are totally unfazed. But you did see him

1511
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,680
Speaker 5: get a little phased in that. Not to be a

1512
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 5: hacky cable news bodyline gouge expert, but you really don't

1513
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 5: see Donald Trump like cross his arms and get uncomfortable

1514
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:07,280
Speaker 5: like that very often. But you're right, Ryan, I think

1515
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:10,799
Speaker 5: to read discomfort into that question with Candicellens.

1516
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 3: And which one is he talking about here? So it

1517
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:14,560
Speaker 3: seems like so Snowden.

1518
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 6: I don't think he knows what he's talking about. I

1519
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 6: think he's just talking.

1520
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 4: Sounded like yeah to me, it sounded like he was

1521
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 4: not thinking about commuting or pardoning Snowden, Yeah, who is

1522
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 4: in exile in Russia. And because he said this thing

1523
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 4: about wow, there's secrets and if you're going to have

1524
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 4: a country, you've got to be able to keep your secrets,

1525
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 4: and which is really the fascinating thing that people should absorb,

1526
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:45,679
Speaker 4: because if Donald Trump is like okay with the things

1527
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 4: that the NSA was doing and that Snowden exposed, and

1528
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 4: he thinks it's wrong for Snowden to expose those that

1529
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 4: really cuts against this whole idea that that Trump is

1530
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 4: deep state actually going to do anything to take on Yeah,

1531
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 4: the military intelligence establishment.

1532
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:04,560
Speaker 5: Which I think is a debate we should have on

1533
01:22:04,600 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 5: the Friday Show this summer. Is Donald Trump the guy

1534
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:08,680
Speaker 5: to actually.

1535
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should do that because.

1536
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 5: It's a fascinating question. I asked his NSA one of

1537
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 5: his essays, Keith Kellogg, about how he saw Assannge. This

1538
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 5: was a couple of years ago, and Keith Kellogg told

1539
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 5: me that he felt like Donald Trump saw a little

1540
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 5: bit of himself in Assannge, and that from an NSSA

1541
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 5: in a very torn administration, a John Bolton Mike Pompeo administration,

1542
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,599
Speaker 5: the administration that actually ended up bringing charges against as Songe.

1543
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 5: I just find that super interesting that he would even

1544
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 5: go so far as to say that from a Republican president,

1545
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 5: let alone a Republican president again like staff by the

1546
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 5: likes of John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. Genuinely interesting. And

1547
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 5: I don't know that Trump would necessarily go through with this.

1548
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 5: Biden has talked about whether he would maybe just drop

1549
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 5: the case and that's all it would take. By the

1550
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 5: way just dropped the case, and there may be some

1551
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 5: geopolitical advantage to you know, assuaging the concerns of people

1552
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 5: in Australia and internationally, especially at a time when the

1553
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 5: United States is under fire internationally. We're talking about potential

1554
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 5: Security Council veto coming up, So there may be some

1555
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 5: advantage to Biden politically in dropping the case. I could

1556
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 5: see Donald Trump actually dropping the case because you see the.

1557
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 6: Duality of Donald Trump.

1558
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 5: Every once in a while, he knows that he's been

1559
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 5: targeted by the same people who targeted snow Snowden and Assange,

1560
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 5: but at the same time he revels in the respect.

1561
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 5: You know, he filled his cabinet initially, and he staffed

1562
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 5: his cabinet initially with military people.

1563
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:45,320
Speaker 6: It's just he's never picked a lane.

1564
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Right.

1565
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 4: And Obama initially contemplated charging Assange and decided not to

1566
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:53,679
Speaker 4: because it would be an encroachment on freedom of the press.

1567
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 3: Right, Trump, urged by Pompeo, did so.

1568
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 4: Biden has continued it and is pushing to have him extradited.

1569
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:04,519
Speaker 4: Now both of them are saying they're thing about dropping

1570
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 4: the charges. It's kind of a ridiculous situation. Both of

1571
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 4: them probably too cowardly to do it.

1572
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean you'd love to It's a question

1573
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,799
Speaker 5: you'd love to have Trump talk about in private, because

1574
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 5: I don't know if he's team Pompeo or if he's

1575
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 5: team Assange. I really don't know. I'm honestly curious.

1576
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 3: And what people on both sides.

1577
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, well exactly. I wonder if he is himself split

1578
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 5: on that. I wonder if Obama himself like how he

1579
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 5: thinks about it now. I think he's still probably very

1580
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 5: anti Massannge. But it's the case is so absurd that

1581
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 5: I think it presents them real questions for these leaders

1582
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 5: to grapple with, especially if you're Donald Trump and you

1583
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:51,599
Speaker 5: came in to clean house.

1584
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 4: And then he also at the Libertarian Convention said he

1585
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 4: would said he would commute the sentence of Ross Olbricht. Yes,

1586
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 4: who is it cause to lab on the libertarian in

1587
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 4: the libertarian world, for he was a Silk Road founder.

1588
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:09,679
Speaker 4: I know there was a lot of pressure on him

1589
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 4: from people close to him while he was president, and

1590
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 4: there was hope that he would do that. Then he

1591
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:21,880
Speaker 4: never did it. Does does Ross? It does seem like

1592
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,800
Speaker 4: she should like it seems like Ross got the book

1593
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 4: thrown at him for the same thing that like a

1594
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:33,560
Speaker 4: lot of websites do, like they have illegal activity on them.

1595
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 4: He was probably a little bit more okay with it, yeah,

1596
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 4: than others.

1597
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 3: But it is.

1598
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 4: That a cause on the right beyond the libertarian movement,

1599
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:45,560
Speaker 4: just the libertarians.

1600
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 5: I think Trump has the power to elevate it beyond libertarians.

1601
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 5: But it's such a I think it is genuinely a

1602
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 5: more complicated case than the Assange one is, Like, it's

1603
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 5: it's a little bit.

1604
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 3: Less clear cut, some weird stuff.

1605
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 5: The trumped up hacking stuff with Assange is just Blayton.

1606
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 4: It's not a free press thing really, it's just a

1607
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 4: more like, yeah, Justice Department overreach.

1608
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:09,320
Speaker 5: And Thomas Massey has said that it's the greatest affront

1609
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 5: to the Eighth Amendment that he's aware of, basically, So, like,

1610
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 5: I think there is a pretty ross case, yeah, the

1611
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,639
Speaker 5: Albert case, and I think there's a pretty big there's

1612
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 5: there are huge glaring questions about the length of the sentence.

1613
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 6: I think we're talking it's like he has a crazy, crazy.

1614
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 5: Role yeah, yeah, yeah, which I think he's forty years

1615
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 5: old around there and this all happen now. Yeah, it's

1616
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 5: just it is genuinely ridiculous, and some of the charges

1617
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:38,520
Speaker 5: I think are ridiculous too, but it's just more complicated

1618
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 5: than the Assauge ones.

1619
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 6: So if Donald Trump really takes it up.

1620
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 5: I was actually surprised he even dropped it at the

1621
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 5: Libertarian Convention, just because.

1622
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:46,760
Speaker 6: I don't I actually think if you explained it to.

1623
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,400
Speaker 5: Donald Trump, he would be like, you know, I feel

1624
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 5: like someone just wrote that into the speech. But yeah,

1625
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 5: who knows. I think he was in the Candicellens interview

1626
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:57,680
Speaker 5: sort of talking to avoid the question a little bit,

1627
01:26:57,840 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 5: and I don't know that i'd take what he said

1628
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 5: too seriously, but I could see him potentially pardoning Assange

1629
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 5: if he felt like he was getting a good deal

1630
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 5: with Australia. I don't think he has a strong sort

1631
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 5: of neo conservative position like Pompeo does on Assannge. I

1632
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:15,560
Speaker 5: think he could be persuaded to sort of use it

1633
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 5: as a bargaining chip in a way that you know,

1634
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:21,439
Speaker 5: a lot of Republican presidents NICKI Haley, for example, certainly wouldn't.

1635
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh for sure, let's preview the Friday Show a

1636
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 4: little bit.

1637
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:28,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm really excited about this one.

1638
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:31,839
Speaker 4: We were going to have Meddi Hassan debating Ben Shapiro.

1639
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 4: Meddi agreed could not get Ben.

1640
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:36,519
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1641
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 4: We heard back, and then we went to find somebody

1642
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:42,800
Speaker 4: else and basically could find nobody who was willing to

1643
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 4: debate Matty.

1644
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, in fairness, I don't even know

1645
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 5: that Ben got We emailed him, but I don't know

1646
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 5: that he actually won't got it. So if you take

1647
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:51,439
Speaker 5: your email, yes, we'd love to host that.

1648
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:54,799
Speaker 3: But well, yeah, he'll he'll come back whenever.

1649
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:56,920
Speaker 5: We had a really hard time, yeah, a really hard

1650
01:27:56,920 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 5: time putting.

1651
01:27:57,720 --> 01:27:58,960
Speaker 4: Know way you want to go to toe with Matti,

1652
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 4: which I don't blame them for. I wouldn't argue that

1653
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:03,599
Speaker 4: the world is round in a debate with Meddi.

1654
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:08,559
Speaker 5: That's true. Producer Mac, Producer Griffin put in a lot

1655
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 5: of hours.

1656
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:09,559
Speaker 6: The last week.

1657
01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:11,760
Speaker 5: You and I were like pinging people and dms and

1658
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 5: email and it was even a week's time, which is

1659
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 5: like a lifetime in the world of news. It was

1660
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:20,719
Speaker 5: hard to stitch that one together. But we're still holding

1661
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 5: out in hope that we can get someone at Meddi

1662
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:27,040
Speaker 5: on the ICC specifically, but this Friday show we actually

1663
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:31,719
Speaker 5: are putting together a reporter. A friend, Ryan's a reporter

1664
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:34,840
Speaker 5: who wrote just a fantastic new book on a deep

1665
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 5: dive into the world of lobbying, the sort of secret,

1666
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 5: shadowy world of lobbying that has changed a lot in

1667
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:40,759
Speaker 5: recent years.

1668
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:42,600
Speaker 3: Since the point of the book called The Wolves of

1669
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 3: k Streets. Till Friday to read it.

1670
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 6: Yes, oh good luck.

1671
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 5: It's a long book book with a top lobbyist, one

1672
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,360
Speaker 5: of the top lobbyst spenders. I think in twenty eighteens,

1673
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 5: Sam Goodaldick, who's been on the show before. This is

1674
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:57,840
Speaker 5: going to be fantastic. I'm really excited about it.

1675
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, this will be fun and we hope you come

1676
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 4: out of it like knowing more about lobbying basically anybody

1677
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:05,120
Speaker 4: else like you.

1678
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 6: We want to pull the curtain back.

1679
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:08,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I don't think any of the shows that

1680
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 5: I can imagine and like elite media spaces would do

1681
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:15,760
Speaker 5: that or would get people to be able to come

1682
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 5: to a place where they felt comfortable having that discussion publicly.

1683
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:19,880
Speaker 6: So it's pretty exciting.

1684
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:23,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I guess come back on Friday for that.

1685
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 5: Come back on Friday or Thursday night if you're a

1686
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 5: premium subscriber, if you're having any troubles again. You can

1687
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:31,719
Speaker 5: support it email support at locals dot com and copy

1688
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:35,360
Speaker 5: Breaking Points Premium at gmail dot com. That pings producer

1689
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:38,839
Speaker 5: Griffin who is here to help. No breakers left behind.

1690
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,240
Speaker 5: The YouTube and Spotify links will be in the episode

1691
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 5: description and in your daily email. Again you get the

1692
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 5: show early. The Friday show early on Thursday is the

1693
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 5: full Counterpoints Show without any Edits just early to your

1694
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 5: inbox right away on Wednesdays. So we will see you

1695
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 5: back here next week.

1696
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 3: See you then,