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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Tony Hansen to break down

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Speaker 2: everything you need to know to find a hunting lease.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 2: brought to you by First Light and their CAMO for

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Speaker 2: Conservation initiative. That means that every time you purchase I'm

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Speaker 2: going to try and say here, every time you purchase

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Speaker 2: a piece of first Light gear in the Specter Whitetail

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Speaker 2: Hunting Camo, a portion of that sale is donated to

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Speaker 2: the National Association, which is a pretty darn cool program

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Speaker 2: in my opinion. And today, as I just mentioned, we're

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Speaker 2: joined by my pal, Tony Hansen. Tony has written for

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Speaker 2: all the major hunting publications. He has done a lot

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Speaker 2: of hunting TV work, he has been in real estate.

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Speaker 2: He's kind of been all over the place when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the hunting world, and he's one of the

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Speaker 2: best whitetail hunters out there. He's someone who I have

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Speaker 2: followed since the early two thousands and have learned a

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Speaker 2: lot from. And the topic that we're discussing today is

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Speaker 2: one that I want to cover for the next couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks, and it's related to access, access to places

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Speaker 2: where we can hunt. It's becoming more and more of

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Speaker 2: a challenge every year. I think, if you are a

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Speaker 2: avid deer hunter, this is obvious to you. If you

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Speaker 2: are a new hunter, this might be something that's kind

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Speaker 2: of daunting to you, and so I want to break

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Speaker 2: that down and explore what our options are. There's a

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Speaker 2: couple different things out there. Right you can hunt public land,

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Speaker 2: you can get free permission somewhere. You can buy land,

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Speaker 2: or you can lease it. And that's our topic today.

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Speaker 2: Today we're going to talk about leases because that's something

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Speaker 2: that Tony in particular has been thinking a lot about lately.

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Speaker 2: He's been stewing on, spitballing about and brainstorming if and

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Speaker 2: how he might want to utilize leases more in his

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Speaker 2: hunting kind of quiver of access solutions. He's in the

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Speaker 2: past spent a lot of time in public and he's

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Speaker 2: still doing that, but he's looking at possibly leasing more,

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Speaker 2: and so that's the topic we're going to dive into.

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Speaker 2: Why Tony's considering that, What circumstances have pushed him to

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Speaker 2: explore leases more, and what has he learned over the

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Speaker 2: last ten twenty years of leasing many different properties in

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Speaker 2: many different circumstances. What's he learned along the way that

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Speaker 2: he's going to be taking forward with him now in

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Speaker 2: this next phase of his hunting journey. And that's something

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Speaker 2: that I've been going through too. I've done the public thing,

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Speaker 2: I've done the permission thing. I've done well. I've sort

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Speaker 2: of had some land only our family's owned land, and

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Speaker 2: I was on own that we land, or I was

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Speaker 2: on land that Meat Eater owned for the back forty

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Speaker 2: also leased ground in a number of different states in

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Speaker 2: a number of different ways. So I've learned a thing

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Speaker 2: or two over time as well. And the thing with

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Speaker 2: leases that I found is it's not as easy as

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Speaker 2: just saying, oh, I have the money to get a lease,

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Speaker 2: now I'm just going to go get it. There's actually

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Speaker 2: more to it. It's harder to find leases than you

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Speaker 2: might realize. It's harder to determine the value of a

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Speaker 2: lease than you might realize. It's harder to get a

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Speaker 2: fair price on them than you might realize. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot more gray area, there are many more questions when

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Speaker 2: it comes to the details of actually getting a quality

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Speaker 2: lease and getting the most out of it. So all

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Speaker 2: of these topics and more are covered today with Tony.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee you're going to learn something today. If you

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Speaker 2: are in the market for new hunting properties, new access,

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Speaker 2: and the lease is one of the things you've been considering,

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Speaker 2: definitely give this a list, and I think it'll help

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Speaker 2: you understand whether a lease is a good fit or

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Speaker 2: you for you were not in how to go about

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Speaker 2: getting one if you decide to. So with that out

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Speaker 2: of the way and without further ado, let's get to

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Speaker 2: my chat with mister Tony Hanson. All right now, with

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Speaker 2: me on the line as a returning guest, I've got

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Speaker 2: mister Tony Hanson. Tony, how are you good?

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Speaker 3: How's it going?

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Speaker 2: It's great. I appreciate you making the time to do this.

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Speaker 2: It's been a little while.

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Speaker 3: It has been I enjoy it. Anytime you call, I

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Speaker 3: have to answer that's how it goes well.

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Speaker 2: I do appreciate that, and I'm selfishly picking your brain

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Speaker 2: today because I, as well as a lot of other

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Speaker 2: people out there, are at that time of year where

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Speaker 2: we're thinking, like, where are we going to hunt this

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Speaker 2: come and fall? It's inevitably spots come and go right.

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Speaker 2: And I just had a pretty darn nice piece of

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Speaker 2: property that I had gotten permission on last year. Just

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, I found out it's getting sold.

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Speaker 2: I lost access to two hundred acres, which is by

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Speaker 2: far the biggest property I had access to anywhere gone.

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Speaker 2: So I'm back at square one thinking about how I'm

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Speaker 2: going to get access to new places, kind of get permission?

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Speaker 2: Is there new public or do I want to explore lease?

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Speaker 2: And that brings us to our topic here today. So

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Speaker 2: does any of this sound familiar to you? Have you

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Speaker 2: been in a situation late that before?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? For sure, and actually like more times than I

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Speaker 3: carried account and actually more like scenarios are different now.

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Speaker 3: So the way that I look at Lisa's ten years

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Speaker 3: ago is different than I looked at it five years ago,

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Speaker 3: and it's different than how I look at it now.

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Speaker 3: You know, Lisa's have definitely been the tool that I use,

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Speaker 3: but I would not say that the primary focus of

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Speaker 3: my hunting season at each year is on property that

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Speaker 3: I it's not, but here in Michigan, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: what I mean, you kind of have to except for

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Speaker 3: some very rare special circumstances that I don't have, I'm

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Speaker 3: just not able to do the things I do in

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Speaker 3: other states here at home. So leasing is kind of

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Speaker 3: what I've had to rely on.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So what's that history look like for you? It

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Speaker 2: sounds like you've kind of been like on leases off leases.

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Speaker 2: I know you've done a lot of public I know

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Speaker 2: you've owned land. Can you just kind of recap folks

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Speaker 2: on what your kind of land access journey has been

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Speaker 2: this led you to this point?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, obviously, like so many other people, I

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Speaker 3: don't know how many years ago, let's say fifteen, I

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Speaker 3: was able to get permission a lot of places, and

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Speaker 3: growing up in Michigan, I had, you know, properties that

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Speaker 3: essentially were like mine even though they weren't. They were

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Speaker 3: neighbors or whatever that I've hunted on ever since I

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Speaker 3: was a little kid, and nothing had really changed with

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Speaker 3: them until it did. Grandkids get old enough to start

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Speaker 3: hunting those types of things, and everything about it switches.

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Speaker 3: At the same time as just a lot more focus

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Speaker 3: on kind of that exclusive place to hunt. It just

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Speaker 3: got a lot harder to find ground. So I probably

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Speaker 3: probably about fifteen years ago is when I first started

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Speaker 3: being able to afford a lease and to know what

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Speaker 3: to do. So I started leasing some places there around Michigan,

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Speaker 3: and it was probably seven or eight years ago or

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Speaker 3: so I just decided I'll still do some of that

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Speaker 3: here in Michigan, but I'm not going to really get

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Speaker 3: into it like I was before because I kept losing them.

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Speaker 3: So over the pandemic there, I wrote a book just

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Speaker 3: trying to get my thoughts together on deer hunting, and

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Speaker 3: one of the things that I said in it is

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Speaker 3: I'm just not going to invest heavily into something that

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Speaker 3: I don't own, which you know, I own public land,

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Speaker 3: so I will definitely spend the time and learn that,

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Speaker 3: and of course private land that you own, but when

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Speaker 3: it comes to leasing, I just wasn't going to go

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Speaker 3: all in and devote too much time because every lease

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Speaker 3: I've ever had, I've lost. I mean that's just and

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Speaker 3: that's like a guarantee everyone you ever have you will

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Speaker 3: lose someday. So at some point, yeah, so where I'm

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Speaker 3: at now is I haven't really backed off that approach

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Speaker 3: of like, I'm not gonna invest a ton of money

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Speaker 3: and energy and resources into leasing, especially out of state,

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Speaker 3: where I feel like you can get on some good

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Speaker 3: deal without having a lease or private. But the last

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Speaker 3: couple of years I've had to really re evaluate as

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Speaker 3: the public has just it's much, much, much different than

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Speaker 3: it was. So I'm right there with you. I'm currently

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Speaker 3: actively trying to find a lease for Michigan and deciding

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Speaker 3: what I'm going to do in other states where I

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Speaker 3: normally would have probably relied one hundred percent on public,

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Speaker 3: I might I'm not sure I can do that anymore.

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Speaker 2: So see that that brings up an interesting question, which

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Speaker 2: is you know how you look at least as differently

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Speaker 2: on your in your home state versus out of state.

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Speaker 2: Why do you why do you look at them differently?

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Speaker 3: So the number one thing is I don't look at

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Speaker 3: it necessarily differently. I look at the available ground to

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Speaker 3: do the type of hunting that I want to do,

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Speaker 3: and I realize not everybody wants to hunt the way

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Speaker 3: I do. Like I want to be in a tree stand.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to do spot in stock. I don't

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Speaker 3: want to I'm pretty mobile with a stand or saddle

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Speaker 3: or whatever, but I like to hunt them elevated. I

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Speaker 3: like to hunt kind of scrape related activity. And I

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Speaker 3: really don't have a whole lot of interest in shooting

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Speaker 3: anything that's less than four years old. It's not it's

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Speaker 3: just not what I do. I can do that in

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Speaker 3: other states. I can hit four year old and older

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Speaker 3: deer on public ground, not as easily as before, but

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Speaker 3: I still can. I can't do that at Michigan. I

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Speaker 3: really can't do that on most of the private either.

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Speaker 3: So the difference is in order for me to have

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Speaker 3: a season where I'm at least pretending to hunt the

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Speaker 3: way I want to hunt and the type of deer

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Speaker 3: I want to hunt, I kind of have to have

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Speaker 3: some private ground, and the only way I've found to

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Speaker 3: get it consistently is to be willing to pay the

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Speaker 3: landowner for the option, because knocking on doors doesn't work

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Speaker 3: anymore here, at least within reason, and it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: work for what I'm looking the type of deer I'm

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Speaker 3: looking to hunt, and I mean last year I spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of time in Michigan on public scouting. I

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Speaker 3: didn't hunt it, and I did learn a lot, and

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Speaker 3: there's a lot more there than I thought. I still

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Speaker 3: never got a picture of a three year old. So

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Speaker 3: it's kind of where it is out of state I

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Speaker 3: can get. It's not that I'm unwilling to lease out

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Speaker 3: of state, it's that I feel like I haven't had

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Speaker 3: to previously. That's changing a little bit, though.

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Speaker 2: Now what about you know, the comments you made in

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Speaker 2: your book and when we talked last time was kind

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Speaker 2: of around this, like you didn't want to invest in

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Speaker 2: something that you couldn't guarantee you'd be able to use

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Speaker 2: in the long run. So what about this idea of

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Speaker 2: like leasing versus owning, Because now, I mean, it sounds

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Speaker 2: like it's getting to the point a lot of people

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Speaker 2: agree with this. It's getting harder and harder to get

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Speaker 2: access without paying something. But why would you look at

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Speaker 2: a lease versus, you know, buying a small property again

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Speaker 2: or something.

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Speaker 3: This is especially true. So this is where I've totally changed.

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Speaker 3: Seven or eight years ago, I had two small pieces,

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Speaker 3: actually I think I owned three at one time, but

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Speaker 3: whatever less than twenty anchors, like one was seventeen, one

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Speaker 3: was like seven, one was nine. You could own those

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Speaker 3: for the cost of or less than leasing someplace because

218
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Speaker 3: I was getting I got those at like eleven hundred

219
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Speaker 3: bucks an acre. You cannot do that any They were

220
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Speaker 3: just like they were garbage ground, Like you couldn't build

221
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Speaker 3: on it. It's just swampy, wet stuff. Even now, the

222
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Speaker 3: stuff you can't build on is it's I mean whatever,

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Speaker 3: it's stupid. I mean, why would someone pay for grand

224
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Speaker 3: and acre for something like that? I don't know, but

225
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Speaker 3: they are so the economics of owning even a very

226
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Speaker 3: small piece, it's not the same as leasing. So you

227
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Speaker 3: can lease and hunt one hundred acres that you probably

228
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Speaker 3: or at least for me, like I'll never likely want

229
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Speaker 3: to buy that much land or afford to be able

230
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Speaker 3: to do that. So that's where the math really works out.

231
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Speaker 3: Also out of state, and I've kicked this around forever,

232
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Speaker 3: and I really use a piece of ground that I

233
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Speaker 3: own in Kansas. I mean, how often can I actually

234
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Speaker 3: get there and utilize it? And then am I gonna

235
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Speaker 3: have to get into a situation of doing other things

236
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Speaker 3: like whatever lease in it for farming or just all

237
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Speaker 3: that other different weird stuff. It's like, I don't I

238
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Speaker 3: don't know how much I want to get into it.

239
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Speaker 3: So that's where a lease out of state is a

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Speaker 3: smaller financial investment than trying to own it. Is it

241
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Speaker 3: the smartest thing long term financially, I don't know, But

242
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Speaker 3: practically and logistically for me, the owning right now is

243
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Speaker 3: just not It doesn't compare.

244
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've leased stuff off and on over the years.

245
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Speaker 2: If you were to put together like a pros and

246
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Speaker 2: cons list from your experience to this point with your leases,

247
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Speaker 2: how would you break that down for yourself?

248
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, obviously the pros are and I'm I'm going

249
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Speaker 3: to primarily relate this pretty heavily to Michigan, which it

250
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 3: can apply to any place where there's a lot of

251
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Speaker 3: hunting pressure. The pro is like you legitimately legally have

252
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Speaker 3: a say and how much hunting pressure is on that property.

253
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Speaker 3: That's by far the number one thing, and that's for me,

254
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Speaker 3: that's worth almost the cost of admission. It's a big

255
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Speaker 3: deal because even if it doesn't have the deer that

256
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Speaker 3: I want, I can in my mind think, well it

257
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 3: might next year or something can move in, but I'm

258
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Speaker 3: kind of left alone, and that's the most important thing

259
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 3: to me. That's definitely the biggest positive, the biggest con

260
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Speaker 3: for sure is you know, you're putting money and time

261
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Speaker 3: and energy and effort into something that likely is going

262
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: to go away. And I'm not saying what you learn

263
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 3: or experience there is worth nothing, but it's worth a

264
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 3: lot less when you take it away and then try

265
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Speaker 3: to go apply it to another property or something. Just

266
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Speaker 3: the one I had in Michigan that was so good,

267
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Speaker 3: and I had it like probably ten years, Like I

268
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 3: knew so much about how those deer moved and where

269
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 3: they were betting and what they were doing. I can't

270
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Speaker 3: duplicate that anywhere, and so I went in and I'm

271
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Speaker 3: still learning, even four years after I've lost it. I'm

272
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 3: still trying to figure out what the best setup in

273
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Speaker 3: situation that I have of the places I have to

274
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Speaker 3: hunt right now. So I feel like I've been chasing

275
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Speaker 3: my tail for four years. Whereas if I had, of

276
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Speaker 3: course owned the property that doesn't go away, or if

277
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Speaker 3: I had invested it into public land that I know

278
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Speaker 3: isn't going away, I still probably wouldn't have any three

279
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Speaker 3: year olds to hunt, but at least i'd know where

280
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Speaker 3: those two year olds are going to walk, So you.

281
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Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, So with the public land thing, you know

282
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Speaker 2: a lot of folks look at public land as that

283
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Speaker 2: best alternative if they can't. You know, a lot of

284
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Speaker 2: people don't want to knock on doors. They're not comfortable

285
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Speaker 2: doing it. So they if they're they're gonna pay or

286
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 2: they're gonna use the public access thing. Has it how

287
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 2: seriously of a decline in quality do you feel like

288
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,560
Speaker 2: we've experienced over this last five to ten years? I mean,

289
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 2: is it has it been? Has gone down from a

290
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 2: B to a D? Was it that? Yeah? I mean

291
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 2: just that experience and from your perspective, how drastic of

292
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 2: a issue hasn't been for you? That's steering you now

293
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,560
Speaker 2: towards or towards the lease.

294
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I want to be careful because I don't

295
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 3: want to. Public land is still awesome. It's an amazing resource.

296
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Speaker 3: I'm glad we have it. I know I will still

297
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 3: spend a buttload of time hunting public ground. I drew

298
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Speaker 3: and i wa tag last year. I looked and looked

299
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 3: for lease and couldn't find one, and really thought, I'm fine.

300
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:05,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's Iowa. They're everywhere. It's super hard to draw.

301
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,360
Speaker 3: It's almost one thousand dollars now for that deer tag.

302
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 3: By the time you add up your points, surely, and

303
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 3: I have what I've been there three times bow hunting,

304
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 3: so I have experience, like I'll be fine. I was

305
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 3: not fine. I hunted thirteen days and I never I

306
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,199
Speaker 3: think I saw one buck that I would shoot, And

307
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 3: in previous journeys to Iowa, I would have never considered

308
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,639
Speaker 3: shooting that buck. Yikes, it's now. They did have CWD,

309
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 3: and that certainly played some sort of a role, but

310
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,439
Speaker 3: there was too many people and the quality of the

311
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Speaker 3: bucks was half of what it was. And I've seen

312
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Speaker 3: that in Kansas, and I've seen it in Nebraska. It's

313
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Speaker 3: definitely not what it was. Still can be good, still

314
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Speaker 3: can be fun. I'm still gonna you know, I've got

315
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Speaker 3: to find those places. But the hard part that I

316
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 3: will want to such a good example because in my mind,

317
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Speaker 3: I'm thinking I really should get a lease because I'm

318
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Speaker 3: not gonna get this license maybe ever again, I mean,

319
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 3: five six years down the road, who knows. I don't

320
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 3: know that I want to put on my eggs in

321
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 3: the basket of public and it's what exactly happened. You know,

322
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,640
Speaker 3: I'm there. I've got four days into trying to find

323
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,399
Speaker 3: a place where I can be left alone and couldn't

324
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Speaker 3: find it, and yeah, public is definitely harder than it was.

325
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if someone's in a similar boat, they're lacking

326
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,680
Speaker 2: access or maybe they do have acces. You know, there's

327
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,640
Speaker 2: plenty of public land, but to your pot, like, there

328
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 2: is like an experiential difference. Yes, right, I mean yes,

329
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,359
Speaker 2: if you are willing to suffer through some stuff on

330
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,720
Speaker 2: public land and deal with other people and really, yeah,

331
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 2: you've got time and all the effort, like, yeah, you

332
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 2: can find deer, like you said, you can have a

333
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 2: good hunt. But some people might simply not want to

334
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 2: have to worry about seven other trucks of the parking

335
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 2: lot every day, or worry about bumping into people like

336
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,400
Speaker 2: that just might not be fun. Ye, I mean, hey,

337
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 2: sometimes I absolutely feel that way. I am very I

338
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,880
Speaker 2: have a very different level of stress when I'm going

339
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: into a public land hunt versus when I'm just going

340
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 2: to go into a spot where I know, like it's

341
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 2: just me, I'm just hunting. I'm hunting deer versus I'm

342
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 2: hunting around people, Like those are two very different hunts. Yeah,

343
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 2: So I think it's not always. I think some people

344
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,159
Speaker 2: just assume, like, oh, if you have a lot of

345
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,639
Speaker 2: money you can get at lease. If you don't have

346
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 2: a lot of money, then you're stuck with public land

347
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 2: or something. But I think it's also like just what

348
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: you want your hunting experience to be. But That'll said,

349
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 2: probably the biggest thing, at least for me, has been

350
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 2: even when I've had money, like I've saved the money

351
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,679
Speaker 2: or had money for a proger, so I had like

352
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,879
Speaker 2: something to pay someone, I can't even find someone to pay, Like,

353
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,439
Speaker 2: I can't even find a lease. What's been your experience

354
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 2: over the years of how to actually find one of

355
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 2: these suckers?

356
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm probably the worst person asked for this

357
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 3: because I haven't figured it out either. I can tell

358
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 3: you how I've got mine, So let's I've just to

359
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 3: make it round numbers. I think I've least eight different properties,

360
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,640
Speaker 3: and I think like five of them were in Michigan,

361
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 3: two of them were in Ohio, and then I did

362
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 3: at least once in Missouri. All of those except for

363
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 3: one were like people that I sort of knew or

364
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 3: they knew friends of mine, and then like they just

365
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 3: talk to them. The other one in the way that

366
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 3: I have tried to make this work, and I'm pretty

367
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 3: much convinced that it doesn't. I don't know how. I

368
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 3: don't have the skills of leaning those guys off SEQ one.

369
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 3: I just don't have it. But I've sent hundreds of

370
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 3: letters to landowners saying, this is what I want to do.

371
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 3: You know, I see your property on the map, would

372
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 3: you be interested in leasing it? And I did get

373
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: one response, and I got a lease out of that.

374
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: That's it.

375
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 3: I've been doing the one I did get a lease

376
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 3: last year through base Camp. That's how I prefer to

377
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 3: it because I do not like I mean, this is shocking, Mark.

378
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 3: I don't like talking to people I don't know.

379
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 2: So I'm right there with you.

380
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not good at knocking on the doors.

381
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 3: I'm not good at that stuff. And just like the

382
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 3: cleanliness of the transaction through something like that is really

383
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,719
Speaker 3: worth it to me. Here's the downside of that. So

384
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 3: they have I don't know if people are familiar with

385
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 3: base Camp, but you know, you've got different levels of subscriptions,

386
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 3: and you get access to the to the leases earlier

387
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 3: than other people. And I'm at the highest one, and

388
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: so three times a week they they release these things.

389
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 3: They're all gone within sixty to ninety seconds of release.

390
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 3: Really just terrible, you know, unless it's like a cow pasture,

391
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 3: a forty acre cow pastor with not a tree on it.

392
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 3: Anything decent is least sight unseen within ninety seconds.

393
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 2: Who's doing that? Like, who can least something without even

394
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 2: knowing what they're getting themselves into?

395
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 3: Apparently a lot of people wow and it so here

396
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: my like the way I got the one in Michigan

397
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 3: is it looks terrible. It's exactly. I mean, it's one

398
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 3: that sat there for three weeks before even I went

399
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 3: and looked at it, and it was not that far

400
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 3: from my house. So that's kind of the approach I

401
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 3: take to them now, and even with public too, Like

402
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 3: I am no longer searching for the premium stuff. I

403
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: am searching for that one overlooked thing that nobody knows

404
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: is good until you figure out that it's good. And

405
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 3: the one I got here in Michigan, I think is

406
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 3: it's really good, but it's one hundred percent reliant upon

407
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 3: the neighboring properties being good. Like I'm never going to

408
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 3: hold a deer or produce a deer. I'm going to

409
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: basically shoot the neighbor's deer when they come through. But

410
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: you know that's what it is.

411
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: Something now that piece, that piece was a base Camp piece,

412
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 2: or that piece is a word. Okay, So I'm curious

413
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 2: about what that experience was like. So I have looked

414
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: at base Camp and there's I can't remember. The other net,

415
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,239
Speaker 2: the hunting Leaset Network, I think, is another one. I've

416
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 2: looked at them over the years. I've never actually followed

417
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: through on one, but I've always thought two things. Number one,

418
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 2: either both or at least one of them is like

419
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: an auction based model. So it seemed like the price

420
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: has got crazy. That was one thing. And then the

421
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: second thing that worried me was that I, at least

422
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: in the past, when I try to understand the system,

423
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: it seemed like you had to rebid and go through

424
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: an auction again the next year too. So it was

425
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: never like you could just like feel confident you'd have

426
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: the place again next year or the next year. It

427
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 2: could just the price could just keep on going up, up,

428
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: up up. And all that made me uncomfortable is what

429
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: was your experience of that? Was I reading it right?

430
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: Is that now? How it worked different?

431
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 3: Now? So Hunting Lease Network is an auction it has

432
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: a minimum bid and then it auctions. I don't I've

433
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 3: never leased from there, so I don't know what the

434
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 3: renewal is. Base Camp is just it's a listed fee.

435
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: Once you lease it, you have you get to renew

436
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: it and it can increase, but no more than five

437
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 3: percent of the year, and if you don't renew it

438
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 3: within your thirty day window, then it goes back up.

439
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: So from that perspective, it's been really it was really easy,

440
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 3: you know. Every Yeah, there's a lot of like confidence

441
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: in it for me because like here's the document, they

442
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: signed it, I signed it. This is what I've got.

443
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: I don't have to deal with you know, are they

444
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 3: going to be sending their son in law out there

445
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: to hunt and pretending like you know that sort of stuff,

446
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: Like it was great. The pricing is crazy, like I mean, my, my,

447
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: the probably at least like you would. You would totally

448
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: I'll show you someday the aerial like you'll totally laugh.

449
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 3: And it was cheap and it's not good. But there's

450
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 3: like one tree on it that's good and that's I mean,

451
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 3: that's why I'm leasing. I'm leasing one tree. Wow. So

452
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 3: it's totally fine because I know for most of the rut,

453
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 3: I'm going to be somewhere else, so I only needed

454
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: it for a certain timeframe.

455
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: Interesting, what a wild world we're in now where this

456
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: is becoming necessary.

457
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,239
Speaker 3: And so I've actually written about this a little bit

458
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: before too, and had conversations and people are like, oh,

459
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 3: well when you and I'm afraid they're probably some of

460
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: that'll come out of this conversation. People are like, oh,

461
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: you're you're making it so may the rich guys can hunt. Well, A,

462
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 3: I'm not making it anything like the market's doing that. B.

463
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 3: Everybody has a truck or a car. If someone came

464
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: up to you and said, hey, I need to borrow

465
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 3: your truck for a week, wouldn't you expect them to

466
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 3: pay for the gas or something. So for me, I

467
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: don't like that I have to do it, but I

468
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 3: don't feel like it's, you know, kind of selling our

469
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 3: souls to the devil by paying a landowner a little

470
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 3: bit of money to help with the property taxes and

471
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 3: all of that stuff. So the hard part, the hardest

472
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 3: part for me though, is I never I never used

473
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: to have to worry about going somewhere else. I was

474
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 3: just gonna hunt public ground and I almost feel a

475
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 3: little bit like, I don't know, almost dirty, because I'm like, man,

476
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 3: because it's exactly like you said earlier. If I have

477
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 3: a week to go, I kind of just don't want

478
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: to have to really kill myself. I'm fine killing myself

479
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 3: ninety percent of the season, but I do want one

480
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: week where I can just go in there and jump

481
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: in a tree stand and watch dear b dear.

482
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that's how I felt two years ago

483
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: or something I was. I just remember thinking to myself, like,

484
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: I just want to have at least one place where

485
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: I know, like I can see the show and it

486
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: can be like what you really hope it will be okay,

487
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: So the rest will be a suffer fest, but I

488
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: at least want one place where it's gonna be like

489
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: this is just like type one fun. Yep. And like

490
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: you said, see deer being deer. That is a really fun,

491
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 2: unique thing that you can usually see in Iowa, but

492
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: you can't usually see in Michigan unless you've got a

493
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: good spot's kind of locked down. And if you're fortunate

494
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: enough to have the means or have the opportunity to

495
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: get that, like that's a it's a worthwhile thing to

496
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: experience for sure, So you can't fault anyone for wanting that.

497
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: And like you said, it's easy to bemoan the state

498
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: of things, right, I've done it too. I've complained about it.

499
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: But you make a great point, like it's not unreasonable

500
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: to think, like, hey, there is a very there's a

501
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 2: resource and high demand here, and there's limited supply of it.

502
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: Why should we feel like entitled to have it for free?

503
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: Like we've had an awesome privilege that that's been the

504
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: case for so many years, Like we've been so lucky

505
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: that's been the case. But you know the fact that

506
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: that's not always the case moving forward. I don't while

507
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: we may not like it, it's kind of hard to

508
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: deny that it's gonna happen. It's like you said, it's

509
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: the market. The market will bear with. The market will.

510
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: Bear for sure, And I do feel that same way.

511
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: I'm public too, Like I know some states do have

512
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: like a habitat stamp or something like that. But I've

513
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 3: benefited an awful lot from public ground. I don't have

514
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 3: problem paying a little bit for it if I have.

515
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: To, So I agreed. So I have least three or

516
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: been a part of three properties, maybe four, and one

517
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: of them came through like just a buddy who found

518
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: a lease through like word of mouth, and then I

519
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: just chipped in on it. One of them can through

520
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: a piece that I had by permission property, just like

521
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: they're getting to know someone, and then eventually they said, hey,

522
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: I need to start making some money from this, so

523
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: would you pay a lease fee? So that's how another

524
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: one came to be, and then a third one came

525
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 2: to be by talking to realtors. I talked to realtors

526
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: and expressed like interest in maybe buying, but also like

527
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: if you ever happen here of leases in that area,

528
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: I'd love to get to know the area better to

529
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: kind of like fact check or ground like ground truth

530
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: the area before I invest in buying something. And that

531
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: ended up leading to a realtor finding a place that

532
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: he was kind of trying to see if they would sell,

533
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: and they weren't ready to sell, but they did say

534
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: they would lease, So that one worked for me. But

535
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: I do feel like it seems like the online thing

536
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: is the isn't not easy. It's not even easy. It

537
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: seems to be a way to get access to a

538
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: larger number of properties, but the price is like the downside, right,

539
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: And and like you said, like the fact that you

540
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: don't get much time to look at them anymore, it

541
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: seems like if I kind of look at least as

542
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: now the way I looked at knock on door permission,

543
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: which was just like I always have my feelers out,

544
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: and like anytime I happened upon someone who maybe owns

545
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: land or has a family farm, or if somehow hunting

546
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 2: comes up in the conversation and they mentioned land but

547
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: they don't hunt it, I'm just always just like kind

548
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: of asking around and just kind of hoping that one

549
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: of these days and I kind of start with like permission,

550
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: and then if that's not an opportunity, then it's like

551
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: would you ever be willing to accept a little bit

552
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: of money to help with taxes or something like that,

553
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: And like that's my hope is that that kind of

554
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: stuff will work. It hasn't worked for me in recent years.

555
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: Although I just mentioned that one piece that I had

556
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: permission on that I just lost to because I got sold.

557
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: I am trying to get in touch with the new

558
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 2: landowner who by way of the old landowner, it sounds

559
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: like he does want to lease. So now I'm going

560
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: to see if that's something that maybe I can afford

561
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: that lease or not. But you know, do you have

562
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: have you had any of this kind of word of

563
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: mouth stuff leasing, word of mouth leasing success? Do you

564
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: have any tips? I guess what I'm getting at in

565
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: a very unwieldy wayers, Do you have any advice for

566
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: people who want to try the word of mouth friend network,

567
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: family network approach to trying to get a lease.

568
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 3: So, even though I've sent lots and lots and lots

569
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: of letters and I've only had the one that was positive,

570
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: I have gotten I don't know, probably fifteen to twenty responses,

571
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: which I think is a lot. I mean that's like

572
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 3: maybe twenty percent of the people I'm contacting, because I

573
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: probably sent over one hundred letters. In my letter, I

574
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: always say like I'm looking to hunt. I primarily hunt.

575
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: I don't have to gun hunt. If you don't want

576
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 3: me to, doesn't matter. And I say very early on,

577
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 3: I'm not looking to take someone else's spot. So if

578
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: you already have people hunting, if you have family, whatever,

579
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 3: thanks for time. It's not what I'm looking to do.

580
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: I'm just looking for those places that maybe they had

581
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 3: a bad experience with hunters or they haven't allowed them.

582
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 3: So that hasn't helped me, but it might help the

583
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 3: people who are a little bit concerned or just maybe

584
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 3: don't like the approach of leasing in general. I'm not

585
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: trying to take somebody's spot. I'm trying to find one

586
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: that you know, access to a place that has been

587
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: locked off. The writing letters, to me, is the best

588
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: way to find people that you aren't going to see

589
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 3: face to face. The better approach is if you have

590
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 3: people in your community that you want to talk to

591
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: that you can actually go and visit. That's going to

592
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: work better or having you know, the ones that I've

593
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: got through word of mouth have been because someone talked

594
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: to them directly, that knew them. Yeah, you have to

595
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 3: use that relationship. I just everybody I know hunts. Everybody

596
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: around here hunts, So I mean the best, the best

597
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: chance I'm going to have is is finding that one

598
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: person that's had a bad experience with hunters or something,

599
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: or who just they just want to have one single

600
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 3: person in there and they want to be paid for it.

601
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 3: So you keep slicing the percentages of properties, every little stipulation,

602
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 3: it's like smaller and smaller than number of them that

603
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: are available.

604
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you bring up an interesting point. Maybe we just

605
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: need to start making more non hunting friends. Like we're

606
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 2: hanging out in the wrong circles, Tony. We got to

607
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 2: start hanging out with doctors or someone from Detroit. These

608
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: these guys that aren't interested in using their family inheritance.

609
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 3: You know. The other thing that is super import and

610
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: I think seek one. If they like on their YouTube

611
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: or whatever, they mentioned this quite a bit, they might

612
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: have a series on it. The liability thing is real, Yeah,

613
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 3: even though it's not. I mean the way I understand it,

614
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: there's not actually a whole lot of liability risk to

615
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 3: a landowner if you're on their property. So you just

616
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: have to offer to buy insurance or get something, you know,

617
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: in writing that says this is how we're going to

618
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 3: handle the liability thing. Because every lease that I've had,

619
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: the landowner has asked about that. Yeah, and so that

620
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 3: is definitely something they think about. So I try to

621
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 3: address that too. In any letter communication. I always say, hey,

622
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 3: there's really not any liability risk to you, but to

623
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 3: you know, give you peace of mind. I'm going to

624
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 3: sign a waiver and I'll get insurance.

625
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: How have you gone about getting that insurance? How you

626
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: who've done that through?

627
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just do it like there's a if you

628
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 3: just google it, there's a bunch of them. But generally,

629
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 3: like the American Hunting Lease Association, they probably sell the

630
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: most policies just for that. So but your own agent

631
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: probably can do it way less. I think it's like

632
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 3: thirty dollars for the year. It's not it's not anything expensive.

633
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: It's good to know. What about pricing, that's a big one.

634
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: I mean, how do you go about determining whether this

635
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: is a fair price or what's fair for an area?

636
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no right of reason. So you will see

637
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: if you start looking at some of the base camp things, like,

638
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: it's crazy some of the pricing that's totally market driven

639
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 3: and demand driven and it's not reflective. That's like they're

640
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: serving a market of people who are there specifically to lease,

641
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 3: and they're specifically competitively leasing against each other, so obviously

642
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 3: that's going to have the most inflated prices. The way

643
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: I've always approached pricing is I go to them, and

644
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: I will know how much their property taxes are, and

645
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 3: I basically will offer very close to what their taxes are.

646
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 3: So in Michigan, roughly one hundred and fifty ish acre

647
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: farm is roughly going to be fifteen hundred to twenty

648
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 3: two hundred bucks for property taxes. And you can see it.

649
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's public knowledge. You can see it

650
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: on the BSA. The I can't think of the name

651
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: of it, but when you go to the county's site,

652
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 3: you'll be able to look up all of their tax records.

653
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 3: So it's a very good idea that I do, and

654
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 3: I may I mention it. I'm like, hey, I know

655
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: your property tax is there this much? What if I

656
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 3: paid half of it or all of it, or depending

657
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: on how good the property is above that. It's just

658
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 3: I mean, as much as I love to, I'm not

659
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 3: gonna spend ten thousand dollars a year on a lease.

660
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 3: I'm just not going to do it. So you know,

661
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 3: fifteen hundred isn't cheap, but I feel like I can

662
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 3: play with that. So that's generally where I'm going to

663
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: be offering is roughly their property tax.

664
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: When you're going about, you know, signing one of these agreements,

665
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: whether it was their base camp or through these various

666
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 2: other handshake deals, word of mouth deals and all that

667
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Is there anything you've noticed over the

668
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: years as far as it red flags to look for

669
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: in lease agreements or particular clauses that you definitely do

670
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: want to include in an agreement.

671
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 3: So I always like make it very clear that it's

672
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 3: exclusive access and nobody else is hunting at all unless

673
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: there unless there was an agreement you know prior, like

674
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 3: they say, oh, my grandson wants to hunt, I'm way

675
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 3: more willing out of state to do that. Like I

676
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 3: don't care if you hunt during gun season, going to

677
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: be there, and I'm probably not going to have this

678
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 3: as a multi year thing, so that's fine, but I

679
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 3: definitely get in there the that I'm doing this exclusive

680
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: if you can. I always tried to like say this

681
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: is a five year agreement, like you want to lock

682
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 3: it up for as many years as you can, unless

683
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: you're worried that like you're taking a little bit of

684
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: a flyer and you don't know how good the place

685
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 3: is going to be, then don't lock it up for

686
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 3: that long. Probably another thing that you really want to

687
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 3: pay attention to. And this this does happen a lot

688
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 3: on the base camp, like there'll be trail camp pictures

689
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 3: or pictures of deer, and it'll be like the landowner

690
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 3: has shot some great bucks over the years, why the

691
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: hell's he leasing it? Right? Like to me, that math

692
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 3: doesn't add up. Clearly, I'm not going to lease it.

693
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 3: I'm not going to lease the property where the landowner

694
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: is hunted in the past, because I don't know anybody

695
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: who's ever said I don't want to hunt anymore.

696
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: Right, just kill a bunch of big bucks there and

697
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: it's a great spot.

698
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that is definitely, I mean, of the online ones,

699
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 3: that's a real red flag. Another thing, it's not really

700
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 3: a red flag. It's just an annoyance. And I'm sure

701
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 3: I'm going to offend somebody, but I don't mean to

702
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: eight of the pictures of their giant buck robes. They're

703
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: not rubes, They're not They're just like bad spots on

704
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 3: the tree or something.

705
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 2: Anyway, Yeah, speaking of that, and I guess that, well,

706
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 2: this is obviously not possible with online services. But in

707
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: the past, have you ever tried to get an in

708
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 2: person like look at they before leasing it. It's like

709
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: in these cases where it's through a friend or word

710
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: of mouth and stuff. Is that something that you recommend

711
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: that you've done the past or is that even like

712
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: these days?

713
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, not realistic, honestly. It's why I'm I'm struggling so

714
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: much with the base camp situation right now. Like I

715
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: really would like to get something within eight hours of home,

716
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 3: So that's Indiana, Ohio and maybe Illinois for us. I can't.

717
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: I can't pull the trigger on something, even if it's affordable,

718
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: because I can't look at it. If I go to

719
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 3: look at it, I'm going to lose it if I

720
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 3: put the That's the other thing too, If you put

721
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: a deposit to hold it and don't lease it, you

722
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: lose the money. It's not a refundable deposit. So I

723
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 3: won't lease it unless I've looked at it. And I

724
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 3: would not advise anybody unless so maybe like you've hunted

725
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: the neighbor's place, or you've hunted on that road and

726
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: you know that property, you know necessarily have to look

727
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 3: at it then because you know it. But for me

728
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 3: to go to some place, you know, down by Athens, Ohio,

729
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 3: and I need to see, like is that thing straight

730
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 3: up and down? And there's one trail that a deer

731
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: could even balance on? Like I and I can't really

732
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 3: tell that from Onyx not well enough.

733
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you mentioned multi year leases. Is that something

734
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: you've been able to finangle in the past. Is that

735
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: ever an option with a service like base Camp or

736
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: is an always single year?

737
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 3: If it is an option in base Camp, they usually

738
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 3: say actually, the National Hunting Leaks people will list that

739
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 3: in their listings more often than any place else where.

740
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 3: It says like potential for long term lease. Base Camp

741
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 3: doesn't really say that that I've seen, and I've never

742
00:42:53,680 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 3: seen them offer a multi year thing individually. I've definitely

743
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 3: heard a lot of people, mostly when I used to

744
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 3: do like media or writer hunts and I would pick

745
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 3: the brain of the outfitters and stuff. None of them

746
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: were signing leases unless they were five to ten years.

747
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 3: Difference is like they were a corporation essentially, and they're probably,

748
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 3: you know, leasing one thousand acres at a time for

749
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: much higher fee than I would ever be able to do,

750
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 3: so it was a totally different situation. But they would

751
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: not lease unless they had at least five to ten

752
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 3: year terms. I've never had that.

753
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of bouncing all over the place, but

754
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: I keep on all these random thoughts that I've had

755
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 2: kind of store away in the back of my mind

756
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: when it comes to my lease, and challenges are now

757
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: bubbling up as I'm hearing about your similar challenges in

758
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: one of these things. When I've looked at when I've

759
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: looked at pieces of land to lease, or even when

760
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: I have at least a place, and then I'm trying

761
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 2: to side, like, do I want to keep leasing this?

762
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah?

763
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: I have had a different set of expectations for the

764
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: quality of a property for a lease. Yeah. So, for example,

765
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: at least a place a couple of years ago, and

766
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 2: it was it was like more money than I really

767
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 2: wanted to spend, but I thought like, man, this could

768
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: be worth it, Like it's in the right neighborhood, it's

769
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: pretty darn good. And then it just didn't pan out

770
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: at all. And I remember thinking to myself, Man, I

771
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: don't want to spend a bunch of money in a

772
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: place that's like not worth it. If I'm gonna spend

773
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: money for a lease, like I want it to be

774
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: a lease, how's your like when you're judging the quality

775
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: of a property for lease, has like your calculus changed

776
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: it all compared to like free permission or or not

777
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: so not necessarily.

778
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 3: I actually the hardest thing in Michigan. It's harder like

779
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 3: I actually let a lease go that is seventy five

780
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: acres of really good river bottom, and that place sucked.

781
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 3: There's no deer, like, there's nothing big and I tried

782
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 3: it for two and it's like I cannot I'm not

783
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 3: that bad of a deer hunter. I should have seen

784
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: something in two years. That was really hard to let

785
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: that go because it's so hard to find it and

786
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 3: to get it. But my expectations weren't higher there. They

787
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 3: were kind of normal. Now when I'm out of state,

788
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 3: like a place any any of the Great Plain State,

789
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: I'm I am expecting if I leased a place to

790
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 3: get a really good one on camera pretty fast, and

791
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 3: if I don't, there's probably a reason for it, and

792
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 3: I'm about to find out when I go to hunting.

793
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 3: But it was like something going on on that place

794
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 3: that I was not aware of. So but I would

795
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 3: feel that way on the public too for the most part,

796
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 3: Like I might be instead of seeing a you know,

797
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty inch five year old, I might

798
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 3: be expecting to see one hundred and fifty inch four

799
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 3: year old. But I still expect to see them, I camp.

800
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: Have you had the experience yet of I'm assuming you

801
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 2: have based on some past knowledge, but maybe I'm wrong

802
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: on this. Have you shared leases with hunt buddies or

803
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: other people?

804
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 3: I'm weird, dude, so like, I don't hunt with other people,

805
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 3: mostly because I don't want to ruin their time and

806
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 3: I just have such weird, little specific ways that I

807
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 3: want to hunt that I don't want to mess it.

808
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 3: I did have a shared lease one time with a

809
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 3: friend in Iowa, but the place was huge and it

810
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: worked out great. I mean that's back when like it

811
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 3: was so easy. I mean, it took us two days

812
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 3: to kill him. Like I shot one that I shouldn't

813
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 3: have shot on the first day. It was still a

814
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 3: four year old. But and then he shot like one

815
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 3: hundred and ninety I mean, just a giant and it

816
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 3: took two days. So that was fine because it was

817
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 3: such a large I mean it was like three hundred

818
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 3: and some acres I think I can't remember exactly, but

819
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 3: the way it laid, we could come in from different

820
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 3: sides of it, different roads, and it wasn't like it

821
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 3: wasn't an issue at all. But I generally I don't

822
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 3: see me leasing in place with somebody else. It just

823
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 3: doesn't appeal to me. But the pooling of resources is

824
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 3: a good thing. But think about it. You're now also

825
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: you need more acres. So if you divide up the

826
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 3: acres that each person has, are you better off or not?

827
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: I don't know, but yeah, I don't. I think for

828
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 3: a lot of situations it's great to partner up. I'm

829
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: just weird and I can't hunt with other people very well.

830
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 2: It is, it is, it's just trickier, and it's like,

831
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: it seems like you have to set expectations and have

832
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: like kind of like a setup, like a process in

833
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: place for how do we decide who's gonna hunt wear

834
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: and how do we make sure that we never get

835
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: into a position where we're mad at each other because

836
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: of hunting? Like, how do we make sure we're all

837
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: on the same page, comfortable with the arrangement, no questions,

838
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: no assumptions. Let's put all on the table and make

839
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: sure we're all on the same page here so that

840
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 2: we're not messing up a friendship over a deal. I

841
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 2: think that seems to be the key, right.

842
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 3: And I just get yes, it is, and I just

843
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 3: get like I mean, I care about it, probably too much.

844
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 3: So if I'm not seeing deer, it's not going right,

845
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: Like I'm going to be grumpy, and I'm not mad

846
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 3: at you. I'm just mad. Like I'm just mad it's

847
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 3: not you, it's not anybody else. I'll be fine in

848
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 3: the morning or whenever I see a deer. And what

849
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 3: happens is like I think I have felt it in

850
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 3: the past where people are like, oh, he's mad because

851
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 3: I shot this deer, like it had nothing to do

852
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 3: with it. So I just don't just take all that

853
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 3: human stuff out of the equation for me, because you're right,

854
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 3: like you have to. I spend more time worrying about

855
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 3: everybody else because I don't want to. I don't want

856
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 3: to mess up their situation. And it was a little

857
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 3: different for me back then because I hunted so much

858
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 3: because of my job, right, so I knew it was

859
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 3: like that person's one week, whereas I'd been going for

860
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 3: three months.

861
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: So you know, Yeah, that leads to another challenge too,

862
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: is like having different amounts of free time available to

863
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: spend on the least too, Like that causes like, well, hey,

864
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: like Tony's out there four weeks a year. I only

865
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: get five days. How's that fair? All that stuff does

866
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: get complicated. So I mentioned the fact that I've just

867
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 2: recently lost a permission piece. Same things happened to me

868
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 2: with the least too. I'm betting this the same things

869
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 2: has happened to you. Has there been anything you've learned

870
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 2: over the years that have helped you keep a lease,

871
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: you know, other than just having the money to do it,

872
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: Any advice on that side of things.

873
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 3: So yes, but it's like common sense, and I don't

874
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: know if it helps you keep it, but it helps

875
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 3: you to know what's going on. So when I lost

876
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,479
Speaker 3: the lease I had in Michigan, that was the best one,

877
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 3: Like I'll never have another place like that here. I

878
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 3: never talked to that landowner, like literally, I sent him

879
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 3: a check once a year with a letter, never talk

880
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 3: to him, and then I got a letter back when

881
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 3: you're saying, hey, I'm deciding to not lease this. I've

882
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 3: always wondered if I had been more personable or friendly

883
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 3: with the guy, if maybe because it still sits there,

884
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 3: like it's still nobody. I mean, he lets some other

885
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 3: people hunt it now, like it wasn't a family thing.

886
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 3: And I just wonder if I had been a little

887
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: bit better at the relationship building on that. The other

888
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 3: the most recent one that I lost last season, I

889
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 3: had that for two seasons. I had a you know,

890
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 3: I would text that landowner and talk to him like

891
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: there was no surprises. When it came that they weren't

892
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 3: going to lease anymore because they wanted to sell it.

893
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 3: That didn't help me keep it. But I had a

894
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 3: much better line of communication with those people than I

895
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 3: did the other one. So I still wonder if I

896
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 3: had just been a little more talkative, if it will.

897
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: It's hard to do when you're someone like you and me. Wait,

898
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 2: Like I always know that I should do that, and

899
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,959
Speaker 2: I try to do it, but like in my heart

900
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 2: of hearts, I'm like, I just want to pull into

901
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 2: the drive. I want to go hunt, I want to

902
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,720
Speaker 2: get back my car, I want to go home. I'm tired.

903
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: It's so hard to convince yourself to be okay. I

904
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 2: got to like psych myself up to have this chat.

905
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 2: There's some of my friends, like, you know, I'm sure

906
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: some of your buddies too. It's like that's just all

907
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: they want to do is bs with everyone they see,

908
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 2: and I'm just not always like that. That's hard.

909
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that too. Like I'm and I My

910
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:17,320
Speaker 3: wife is very different from me. So's she's saying hello

911
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 3: to everybody, and I always say the same thing to her.

912
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't want someone stopping in Walmart and

913
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 3: talking to this somebody else.

914
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 2: That's exactly how I feel.

915
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 3: And she's like, that's not how it is, but for

916
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 3: me it is.

917
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 2: So yeah. Yeah. So what about the hunting side of things?

918
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you think differently about from a

919
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 2: hunting perspective when on a least property versus public or

920
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: by permission. I mean, there's one big obvious one, but

921
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 2: I'll let you you know, how do you think differently

922
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: behind it?

923
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 3: I don't think this way, but I have had people

924
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: that I know have had leases or whatever that I've

925
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 3: talked to and it's like, hey, this is the last

926
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 3: year of this lease. Let's kill every buck we can.

927
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 3: And I think that there is something in that mindset

928
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 3: that a lot of people if they think if they're

929
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 3: paying for this, that they're entitled a little bit more.

930
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 3: I don't think that, like honestly anymore. I mean, I

931
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 3: still want to kill deer, but I kind of don't

932
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 3: care if I don't like. I just want to hunt them,

933
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 3: and I want to hunt them in a certain way.

934
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 3: So I think my approach on a lease isn't any

935
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 3: different than anywhere else other than I I know I

936
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 3: don't have to. If I see a good one on

937
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 3: public or something, I might be a little bit more

938
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 3: inclined to push it and do something I maybe isn't

939
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 3: super smart. I'm good at doing that super smart stuff anyway,

940
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 3: But in that's it situation, I might do that. On

941
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 3: the least, I'm probably going to be a little less risky,

942
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 3: just because I trust more that it's not going to

943
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 3: get as messed up. Right, But I don't change a

944
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 3: whole lot because I don't, Like I said earlier, I

945
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 3: just don't really look at the ground any differently. One

946
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 3: is public that has what I need. One is private

947
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 3: that has what I need. I just had to pay

948
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 3: for it. They're the same thing.

949
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 2: Now this isn't necessarily least specific, but but it kind

950
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 2: of is. Is you just described that your overall strategy

951
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,919
Speaker 2: is mostly the same, public versus private versus a lease.

952
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 2: We did a podcast together, I think two summers ago, right,

953
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: was that when soon after your book came out, does

954
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: that something right. And one of the things that stood

955
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: out to me with that conversation and with the book

956
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: is it's something you kind of just said, which is

957
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 2: you've kind of figured out how you want to hunt. Like,

958
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 2: you know, there's a bunch of different ways to hunt.

959
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: You've tried many different ways success yesfully you've done them

960
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: all successfully, but you've kind of narrowed down like how

961
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: you like to do it, yeah, and like the way

962
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 2: that's the right fit for you. So I'm just kind

963
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: of curious, as you've kind of gone on this journey

964
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 2: of access changing and your experience changing on public land

965
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 2: and having these leases come in and out over the years,

966
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 2: where you are today in twenty four has your opinion

967
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 2: on how you like to hunt or how your approach differs,

968
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 2: you know, or how you approach hunting is that different

969
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: now than how you described it in twenty twenty two

970
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 2: in the book and in our conversation. Is there any

971
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: big change just happened over these last couple of years now?

972
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm pretty dialed in, Like I don preseason scout.

973
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 3: I just don't think it's worth it. The only preseason

974
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 3: scouting I'll even do this year is when I go

975
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 3: turkey hunting this spring. If I'm if I decide to

976
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 3: go to a place I haven't been, I'll look at

977
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 3: the public and stuff with the eye on deer hunting.

978
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 3: That's the extent of my and I'm still going to

979
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 3: count on scrapes almost one hundred percent of the time

980
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 3: from September through November. The difference is it's super hard

981
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 3: now to get in the truck to drive overnight like

982
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 3: I used to get it a place in the dark,

983
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 3: a public place and beyond deer within two to three days,

984
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 3: because I'm it's taking me two to three days now

985
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 3: to figure out am I even going to stay here?

986
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 3: Or am I going to drive another two hundred miles

987
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 3: to a place where I feel like I can operate

988
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 3: without getting walked in on or something like that. So

989
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 3: the only change is this, like I'm more serious now

990
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 3: about trying to maybe have one out of state lease

991
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 3: than I have ever. I know I'm going to have

992
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 3: to do what I have to do in Michigan, whether

993
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 3: it's permission or lease or whatever, and continue to learn

994
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 3: the public. I just haven't found anything to hunt. I'm

995
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 3: still going to have a public land hunt somewhere. Used

996
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 3: to have two, maybe three public land hunts. I have

997
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 3: to curb those back now because of the time. I

998
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 3: can't spend three days out of five days finding a

999
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 3: place where I'm just not seeing boot tracks because that

1000
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 3: just it nothing spins me out faster than seeing these

1001
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 3: boot tracks. It just annoys that a lot of me.

1002
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: It's it's not the fun part, that's for sure. No, no, man, Well,

1003
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 2: this is one of those topics that's like, I don't

1004
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 2: know anyone who's like thrilled by the prospect of having

1005
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 2: to do a lease, but you know, it's it's kind

1006
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 2: of a reality for more and more of us. And

1007
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 2: I think, like these kinds of questions are always bubbling

1008
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 2: around in my mind, and so it's helpful to be

1009
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 2: able to bounce some of these things someone else who's

1010
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 2: been through the ring or two, because you know, we're

1011
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: not going to be turning the clock back anytime soon,

1012
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 2: so you can, like folks can like complain about it

1013
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: all they want and be upset about it if they want, Sure, okay,

1014
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 2: But I'm kind of like a pragmatic guy. I'm like, Okay,

1015
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: this is just what it is now, So how do

1016
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: I make the best of the situation. That is on

1017
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 2: public Now how do I make the best of what

1018
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: might still be available for free on permission? But then

1019
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,439
Speaker 2: also like, hey, lease is our reality of the world,

1020
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: and how can I do it in the smartest way

1021
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: if it makes sense.

1022
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 3: So it's a tool that's helpful. Yeah, it's It's a

1023
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,959
Speaker 3: tool to me. It's not my primary tool. I'm still

1024
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 3: primarily a public public land guy, and I'm still going

1025
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:46,479
Speaker 3: to be looking for that undiscovered place and figuring it out.

1026
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 3: But in between, I mean, I have an X number

1027
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 3: of places and times I want to hunt in the fall.

1028
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 3: I can't fill all of them anymore with just public

1029
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I can.

1030
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: So this is a tool, yeah, yeah, and you can't

1031
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 2: necessarily fill them with the kind of experience you want to, Like,

1032
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 2: I feel like that just that resonates a lot with me.

1033
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: Is like, sometimes I want that grueling, mega public line experience,

1034
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 2: and sometimes I want just a little bit different, which

1035
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 2: I'm not going to apologize for. It's nice to be

1036
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 2: able to have a spot where you can sit and

1037
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 2: see deer do their thing and not worry about Tom

1038
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,439
Speaker 2: and Jerry and Jarley and Matt and Bob and every

1039
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 2: other guy walking by so's I.

1040
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 3: Mean, there's one more thing that I hesitate talking about

1041
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 3: because it just feels weird. But I said, I'm almost

1042
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 3: always hunting alone. That means when I shoot it to

1043
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 3: an earned whatever pound deer, I have to get that

1044
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 3: thing out of there by myself. And that's not as

1045
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 3: easy now as it was ten years ago. So maybe

1046
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 3: I can haul two of them out, but I don't

1047
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 3: know if I can haul three of them out, So

1048
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 3: that that's another thing where I have to plan accordingly.

1049
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 3: And I'm sure that's like in another ten years, that's

1050
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 3: not like gonna be different. So sure, yeah, just the

1051
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 3: getting around and in and out over the course of

1052
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 3: the season is a little bit different now too.

1053
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's just like changes in circumstances and life,

1054
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 2: you know, phase and then just the changes that are

1055
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: happening across our hunting culture I think are making this.

1056
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 2: You know, for for a while, it's been this funny

1057
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: kind of path that the public land thing has gone

1058
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 2: where for a long time, everyone thought it was horrible

1059
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 2: and nobody wanted to hunt it at all, and then

1060
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 2: you know, the last decade or so, it has become

1061
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: very trendy and very popular, and now you're seeing like

1062
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 2: the backlash where there's like folks that are kind of

1063
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: like realizing, hey, it's great, but maybe it's not for

1064
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 2: me all the time or whatever. And you're seeing like

1065
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 2: there used to be like a within certain sub segments

1066
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 2: of the hunting world, owning private land or having a

1067
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 2: lease was almost like like like a scarlet letter almost

1068
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 2: like oh, well, they're just the one percent ers. They

1069
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 2: don't they're not they're not good hunters because they just

1070
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 2: have it all given to them on the silver platter.

1071
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: And and like there's some like everyone has different circumstances,

1072
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 2: and I don't like getting into the whole like such

1073
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 2: and such measuring contests that a lot of hunters get into.

1074
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 2: But I think what I'm getting at now is like

1075
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: I don't think you should feel guilty if you decide

1076
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 2: you want to get a lease. I don't think you

1077
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,439
Speaker 2: should feel guilty if you know, however you choose to hunt,

1078
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 2: Like it's all challenging in its own way. It's all

1079
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 2: should come down to, my opinion, like down to like

1080
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 2: hunting your own hunt, like hunt the way you want

1081
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: to hunt, the way that you find enjoyment and satisfaction

1082
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 2: from as long as it's legal and you're doing it,

1083
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: you know, in a way that's not damaging others experiences,

1084
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 2: Like more power to you, and this is this is

1085
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: one of those options available.

1086
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 3: Yeah so, and definitely different levels to it, Like you know,

1087
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 3: the least is if I get any it's it's gonna

1088
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 3: be like twenty acres, thirty acres that's or it's gonna

1089
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 3: be like the one in Michigan where it's one hundred

1090
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 3: acres with two trees. So I mean, it's live, it's

1091
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 3: it's it's gucci sounding, but it's still uh, it's still

1092
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 3: pretty duller general, you know.

1093
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I love the fact that you're essentially leasing

1094
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: two trees. That that takes serious dedication, Tony.

1095
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 3: And I was, I was literally seconds away from shooting

1096
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 3: like one hundred and forty five inch year there the

1097
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 3: first night on it, and it's incredible. I totally screwed up.

1098
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 3: But that's my That's how I roll. It's always next year, right, Yeah,

1099
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 3: we'll see maybe maybe there won't be any deer there,

1100
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 3: but I will sit in my tree and see what happens.

1101
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 3: That's hunting.

1102
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: So before we wrap the sucker up, Tony, can you

1103
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 2: remind folks a little bit about your book and where

1104
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: they can find that, yeah, and anything else you want

1105
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 2: to mention.

1106
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's called The Antler Geeks Manifesto and that's

1107
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 3: on Amazon, just self published it. I'm actually working on

1108
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 3: another one. I don't know what I'm gonna call it,

1109
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 3: but it's basically like the half Life of a public

1110
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 3: land Hunter. So it's I don't know, I'm hopefully not

1111
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 3: quite halfway through my life, but I've no hunted public

1112
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 3: for over twenty years, which is crazy. And it's just

1113
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 3: going to outline, you know, how I got into it,

1114
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 3: what's been different, what's not as good, what is still good?

1115
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 3: Just you know, I love reading like Jeen and Barry

1116
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 3: Wentzel's books. I just love them, and I'd read everyone

1117
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 3: they wrote. So it's just kind of like that. It's

1118
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 3: just a collection of stories but also lessons in it too,

1119
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 3: and hopefully going to have that wrapped up by the

1120
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 3: end of the summer, but we'll see how many. I

1121
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 3: gotta start catching small moths, so that might say that might.

1122
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 2: I get it? I get it, Hey, you got you

1123
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 2: gotta live a little Tony. Don't feel guilty.

1124
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 3: You're with the trout though, So if I got you

1125
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 3: in a small mouth, you can never look back.

1126
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 2: I know that I would be very susceptible to the

1127
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 2: small draw, the small jaw syndrome as I've heard some

1128
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 2: people call it. Yeah, so yeah, I get it. Well, Tony.

1129
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 3: Uh.

1130
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 2: I enjoyed this chat. I really do appreciate you coming

1131
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 2: on here and talking through this. And yeah, the the

1132
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 2: never ending challenge of access, I think is something that

1133
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 2: we're all going to have to keep on working on

1134
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 2: over the years. So these are important conversations.

1135
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 3: Have Yeah, absolutely appreciate it.

1136
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: All right, that is a wrap, my friends. Thank you

1137
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 2: for joining me, thank you for being a part of

1138
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 2: the Wired to Hunt community. I'm wishing you all the

1139
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: luck in the world in your own access journey, whether

1140
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: that's knocking on doors for permission, sending letters to hopefully

1141
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 2: get a lease, maybe buying your first piece of ground,

1142
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 2: or putting in the grind to find some good public

1143
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 2: whatever it is, get out there, enjoy your time outside,

1144
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 2: and until next time, stay wired to hung