1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Today's mini pod is a little bit of a return 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: to last summer. Our very efficient reader, Tiffany has been 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: bugging us about our reading and encouraging us to read 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: a lot more sources if we could so as we 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: hunkered down this hopefully winter break with a book, there 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: are plenty of recommendations in this episode. You can find 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: a list of all the books that we talk about 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: in this episode in the description Happy holidays and happy reading, y'all. 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: Home, everybody. This is Tiffany Cross, Angela Rye and a 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: man you get them. And this is a mini pod, 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: and we don't know what we're about to talk about. 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 3: Yes, that was Angela's suggestion that we wait and figure 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 3: out what we're going to talk about, and I record, yeah, 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 3: we understand. Well, we've heard you guys in the audience 16 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: ask us about what we're reading, what we like to read, 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 3: and so I thought this might be a good opportunity 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: for the co host to share some of their favorite 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 3: books and we would recommend to you guys. I know 20 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 3: I have a lot I, as I talked about, have 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 3: read Charles Blow's book The Devil you know, so I 22 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 3: would love for folks to read that we can have 23 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: a conversation about it. I am reading The Color of Money, 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 3: Wealth and Black Banks. I might have a subtitle wrong, 25 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: but it's MRSA but Darenden. I think that's fair name. 26 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 3: I had her on my show some years ago and 27 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 3: started the book and embarrassingly so did not finish it. 28 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: And I hate when folks when people do that, this 29 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 3: is a question I'll ask you, guys, I might be 30 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: a bit of a I don't think it's snobbery. I 31 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 3: think it's just the art of reading. I do not 32 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 3: think audio listen. When people say they listen to the audiobook, 33 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's reading. And I say that 34 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: because like your brain literally processes it differently and for 35 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 3: the right like when you read something, you're comprehended. It's 36 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: the difference between listening to a podcast like y'all are 37 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 3: doing now versus actually reading the words, like your brain 38 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: literally processes it. And so you know when you have 39 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 3: friends with kids and they're like, oh, I did the 40 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: audiobook and the parents are like no. 41 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 4: No, no, you need to read the book. 42 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: I think if I had kids, i'd be one of 43 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: those parents like, you have to strengthen that skill. 44 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 4: You have to read. So do you all think that 45 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 4: audiobooks counts as reading? 46 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you are an auditory learner, yeah, which some 47 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: people are. Some people like I need to hear it 48 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: out loud. In fact, when I'm actually reading, whether it's 49 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: a report or a book or even an article, sometimes 50 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: I will say out loud to myself a piece that 51 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: is something I want to want to remember, a piece 52 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: that I may want to go back to now. 53 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 5: Love. 54 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: I love physical books because I like writing in them. 55 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: I got tabs for days. If you wanted to get 56 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: me a you know, a gift and you don't know 57 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: what I like, just get me some post its because 58 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: they're going to end up in books and the flags. Yeah, 59 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: all of that. I love it, and mainly because I 60 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: even commit you know, certain passages to memory when they're 61 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: really you know, that thought provoking and that kind of thing. 62 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think audio books work just as fine. 63 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: I tell my kids all the time because my son, Jackson, particularly, 64 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: who's a really competitive reader, you know, wants me to 65 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: know that he started the day at page twenty three 66 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: and he ended at one hundred and twenty six I said, well, 67 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: that's good, Jackson, but do you remember what you read? 68 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: But I would not object to at you know, at 69 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: some point when they get introduced to audio books to 70 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: them listening as well, we're gonna get the fundamentals of 71 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: reading down. We're gonna get the fundamentals of you know, 72 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, root words, because it's going to be important 73 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: for you at some some point in time. But I 74 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: will tell you I have I have I have a question. 75 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: One does it make a difference to you listening versus 76 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: reading yourself fiction nonfiction? Because I'll say this for me, 77 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: I am I don't read fiction at all. In fact, 78 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: my therapist has told me you've gotta you have got 79 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: to read more fiction. It is where the imagination, Yes, 80 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: you know it exists. And I'm so like, no, no, no, 81 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: But why would I waste my time on that one? 82 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: I know if I read this, this is history, this 83 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: is this, this is you know, these are things that 84 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: I can put under my under my two bell. So 85 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: I got to still make that adjustment. But I do 86 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: wonder whether or not it would be different for me 87 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: if I were listening to an audio book of a 88 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: fiction story versus an audio book of a fact story, 89 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: and I wonder if it makes a difference to either 90 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: of you. 91 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 6: I will say Lenard actually suggests reading the book and 92 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 6: listening to it at the same time. He was telling 93 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 6: me that it was a good experience, and he did 94 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 6: it with Viola Davis's book, So I did that with 95 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 6: Violet Davis's book, and I agree. So I think it depends. 96 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 6: I definitely in somebody the way my mind moves. If 97 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 6: I'm just listening to the audio book and I start 98 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 6: looking at something else or like I'm texting at the 99 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 6: same time, you can forget it. 100 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: I basically have blocked everything out. 101 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 6: But if I'm concentrating just on that book or closing 102 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 6: my eyes and just listening to that book. 103 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: It helps. 104 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 6: But I did appreciate the experience of reading and listening 105 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 6: at the same time. 106 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: Plus fiction non fiction equal leaders. 107 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 6: I'm not a I'm not a fiction person. I think 108 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 6: that there was a time, like growing up, where I 109 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 6: was more of a fiction person, but I think now 110 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 6: there's so much going on. I feel like, if I'm 111 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 6: going to be reading, I wanted to be historical based, 112 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 6: strategy based, political base economics based, something with some solutions 113 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 6: in there. So I do know like, the last fiction 114 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 6: book that I was really into is Derek Beale Faces 115 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 6: at the Bottom of the Well in Law School, And 116 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 6: it was because I could see it. 117 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: And here we are about to get shipped off to Hell. 118 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 6: To Mars right now, So I mean, I understand it 119 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 6: has a little tinge of accuracy. 120 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: I go through about a book a week, and I 121 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: try to go back and forth. If one week is fiction, 122 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 3: the next week, I'll try to do nonfiction. But I 123 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 3: really enjoy fiction. Angela, you talked about finding me Viola Davis. 124 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 4: That book was therapy for me. 125 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 3: I mean that book Viola Davis, just so I couldn't 126 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 3: read or listen to that. I read that and I 127 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: can't do audio at the same time as reading because 128 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 3: our speeds are different. And I'll read something over, like 129 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 3: if a paragraph or even a sentence it's just beautifully constructed, 130 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 3: I will read that over and over and over and over. 131 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 3: Tony Morrison said ones which I it is a torturous 132 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 3: process to write. I don't believe in ghostwriters either, because 133 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: not that ghostwriters can't have good books, but when people 134 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: say I wrote a book, I'm like, well, did you 135 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 3: write or did you have a ghostwriter? Because when you 136 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 3: are writing. Tony Morrison, when I was fourteen, I was 137 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 3: listening to a conversation with her and Oprah and she 138 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: was saying that as a writer, you will take one 139 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 3: cent tense and structure it in every possible way to 140 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 3: make it the point that you want. 141 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 4: To see what works. 142 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: And I tried to had a discipline to do that, 143 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 3: and it is a tortuous process and so, but it's 144 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 3: also a beautiful process when you're all done. So I 145 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 3: like the way that fiction doesn't constrict you to the 146 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 3: realms of reality that you know. It can still you 147 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 3: can learn from it. It can still based in history, 148 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 3: but it's beautiful writing that you know deeply explores. And 149 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: with fiction, they're more than likely is not a ghostwriter. 150 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: With nonfiction sometimes I think it's particularly with biographies, people will, 151 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: you know, hire somebody. I know a lot of people 152 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 3: who are like hired ghostwriters who offer They're like, hey, 153 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 3: I can write this chapter for you, and I'm like, 154 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: as if I would never you know, I want to 155 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: construct this myself. But this leaves me I have some 156 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 3: sound that I want us to listen to from a 157 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 3: writer that I thought was so amazing. She since passed away. 158 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 3: But I'm sure many of you have read Octavia Butler. 159 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: Probably not you, Andrew digit or are you Angel I 160 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 3: guess since you guys don't read fiction. But her work 161 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: it speaks to so much that's happening right now. And 162 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: she actually made a good point I think, around just 163 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: the process of writing, but also how she bases it 164 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: in what's happening in society. And she was so far 165 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 3: ahead of her time, So take a listen. 166 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 5: I got the idea for it when I heard someone 167 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 5: answer a political question with a political slogan, and he 168 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 5: didn't seem to realize that he was quoting somebody. He 169 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 5: seemed to have thought that he had a creative thought there, 170 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 5: and I wrote this verse. Beware, all too often we 171 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 5: say what we hear others say, we think what we 172 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 5: are told that we think, we see what we are 173 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 5: permitted to see. Worse, we see what we are told 174 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 5: that we see. Repetition and pride are the keys to this. 175 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 5: To see and to hear even an obvious lie again 176 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 5: and again and again may be to say it almost 177 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 5: by reflex, then to defend it because we have said it, 178 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 5: and at last to embrace it because we've defended it. 179 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 5: And because we cannot admit that we've embraced and defended 180 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 5: an obvious lie. Thus, without thought, without intent, we make 181 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 5: mere echoes of ourselves, and we say what we hear 182 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 5: others say. 183 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 4: This is a work of fiction. 184 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 3: But that beautifully constructed paragraph I think speaks to so 185 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 3: much of what's happening in society about how we will 186 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 3: regurgitate a lie. And I don't mean maga Republicans will 187 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: you know, obviously that happens, but I even mean amongst 188 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 3: ourselves because something existed, or because you know, we will 189 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 3: take We talked about this in parody. You know, Fox 190 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 3: News will run a piece and then the Shade Room 191 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 3: will post it. 192 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 4: You know, it's it is something. 193 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 3: Where it dulls our intellect and it declines our reasoned thinking. 194 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: And so I don't know, I think there are some 195 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 3: lessons to learn in fiction. But when she talked about that, 196 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 3: I just thought, Wow, that's true. I see that happening 197 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: a lot from some things that took place in the 198 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: Black Church that I, you know, don't agree with in adulthood. 199 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 3: But people, you know, it's it's orthodoxy, you know, it's culture. 200 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 3: These axioms become principal after a while, and if we 201 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 3: just imagine, but what if this is not the case. 202 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 3: What if this man saying this to me is wrong? 203 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 3: What if this leader projecting this to me is incorrect? 204 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: What if this leader really wants to rule and not 205 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 3: lead and just to question everything around me? So finktion, 206 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 3: I would say, can invite that kind of Yeah? 207 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: Well that was beautiful. And what I loved about it 208 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: is she said, missus butler h the obvious lie, right, 209 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: is obviously not the truth. So we're not debating with 210 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: another this is true false. We all are looking at 211 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: the thing and saying it's not true, and then we 212 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: keep listening, and then we start to repeat, and then 213 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: the repeating becomes the you know, the our foundation of defense, 214 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: and we fight over it, and then we've gotten so 215 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: deep in we cannot even acknowledge that we all knew 216 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: it was a lie, and I just kept running with it. 217 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, what I love? 218 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: So I think, Tiffany, your appreciation is well learned. You're 219 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: a writer, and so you love words. You love the 220 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: written word, not as you know, maybe not even the 221 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: spoken words so much as you love the written Yeah. Sure, 222 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Michael Harriett is one of those people who I have underlined, 223 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: double underline, circled because he is. It feels like, while 224 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: it comes off so easy as a person who likes 225 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: to see subtexts, I imagine a person who has, as 226 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: you described earlier, written a sentence so many different ways 227 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: that he wants it to stick. He wants it to land, 228 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: and he wants it to land on first impact. I 229 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: appreciate you know, the written word as well, obviously more 230 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: more more fact than fiction, But I do want to 231 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: reprioritize and reorient myself a little bit here because I 232 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: do think there's some truth in this sort of imaginative, 233 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: imaginative space where for a lot of my life I've 234 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: sort of had to live and deal in what is present, 235 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: what I know to be the case, either what has 236 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: happened or forecast to occur, And I do think it 237 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: robs us a little bit of the what's outside the box, 238 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: what's not on the page each what isn't being said? 239 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: Where are the possibilities for this to go? And I 240 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: think writers, particularly those who are skilled at it, have 241 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: a beautiful way of lifting us off of it. So 242 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: I appreciate that about good writers, but I appreciate them 243 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: an equal measure I think both written and spoken. 244 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: What would you recommend to our audience that they pick 245 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: up and maybe even to me? Maybe I haven't read 246 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 3: some of the books you have. 247 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 6: So this is when I'm using this one because this 248 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 6: is a quote from the Congressional Black Caucus that we 249 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 6: say often it was no permanent friends, permanent enemies, just 250 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 6: permanent interests. And this book is from William Lacey Clay. 251 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 6: This is Congress from Lacy Clay's father. William Lacy Clay 252 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 6: was one of the CBC founders, and he talks about 253 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 6: the journey of Black Americans in Congress from eighteen seventy 254 00:13:59,400 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 6: to nineteen. 255 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: This book is called Critical Race Theory and it is. 256 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 6: A collection of essays. It's a text that I used 257 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 6: in law school. This actually talks about this is It 258 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 6: includes Kimberly Crenshaw as well as many many other scholars. 259 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 6: This book is important because it will actually tell you 260 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 6: about what critical race theory actually is and not the 261 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 6: nonsense they tell you. So the foreword is by Corno West. 262 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 6: It's edited by Kimberly Crenshaw, Neil Gatanda, Gary Peller, and 263 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 6: Kendall Thomas. Medical apartheidr I'm bringing this up because this woman, 264 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 6: doctor Harriet Washington, talks about why black folks don't or 265 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 6: why the system, the healthcare system, the medical system has 266 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 6: not proven itself trustworthy to black people, which is a 267 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 6: slight modification on what we normally talk about. Very good 268 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 6: texts Ron Brown. In addition to Reverend Jesse Jackson, Ron 269 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 6: Brown's picture was on our mantle in the house. My 270 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 6: dad was in a diehard Democrat, but what he loved 271 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 6: about Ron Brown was his way of advocating for black people. 272 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 6: He was the DNC chair and also was the Department 273 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 6: of Commerce Secretary under Bill Clinton. 274 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 2: This is his. 275 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 6: Memoir, Ron Brown, An Uncommon Life. Asada obviously an autobiography, 276 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 6: very important. This is written by Asada Shakur. She is, 277 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 6: I believe, the only woman on the FBI's most Wanted list. 278 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: She should not be there. Free Asada all right. 279 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 6: And finally, my good brother, Resma Menechem has a book 280 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 6: called My Grandmother's Hands. It's a New York Times bestseller. 281 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 6: It helps deepen us into what ancestral trauma looks like, 282 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 6: what it means to regulate and corregulate our nervous systems, 283 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 6: and how to ensure that we heal from racialized trauma 284 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 6: in the body. It's a somatic therapy book that teaches 285 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 6: us different for modalities to call upon to heal ourselves 286 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 6: and to heal the communities that we. 287 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: Are a part of. 288 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 4: But I did we meet him? Did we have dinner 289 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 4: with him somewhere? 290 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: I remember you talking about this book that you just loved, 291 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 3: and it was maybe it was definitely. 292 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 6: I definitely had been breaking bread with Resmuk. Maybe you 293 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 6: were there, Tip, I'm sure, if not there in spirit. 294 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, he was there panel for me. 295 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 4: That was years ago. I remember when you said. 296 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: That for the centennial. 297 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 4: Yep, what you got, Andrew oh Man. 298 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: I felt, for one, your book is all the way 299 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: at the top, as is my friend Kenisha doctsha Oh Grant. 300 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: So I didn't get to pull them down. 301 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 6: Saying you can't reach it. I didn't get my tip 302 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 6: book let me grant. 303 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: They're up at the top, but some that were closer 304 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: down obviously out there. 305 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 4: You know. 306 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 3: I feel like that was okay, Thank you guys. I 307 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 3: feel like that was my first book and I've turned 308 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 3: in a rough draft and they published it. Because now 309 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: when I read it, I'm like I would I never 310 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 3: wrote like that but thank you. 311 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: Hey, you got a book out there for him? All right? 312 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: Another one coming, So four hundred souls, My fellow rattler 313 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: Iram Kendy and Keisha Blaine, and I especially, especially especially enjoy. 314 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: I told you about my tabs and stuff and books, 315 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: just just proof that I put tabs in books when 316 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: I read them. My favorite essayist contributor, of course, would 317 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: be none other than Michael Harriot. 318 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 4: Harriot Harriott and I just have let it go. 319 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: But I don't know why, Michael, forgive me. I like 320 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: pronouncing it that way, but I'm gonna do it with you. 321 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: Harriet Harriet Harriott, who is our grit? Can? I say? 322 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 5: Griott? 323 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 4: Sure, Michael Harriott, are agree? 324 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: Got? 325 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: Okay? There it is? But I love The hero of 326 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: this drama is black people. All black people, the free blacks, 327 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: the uncloaked maroons, the black elite, the preachers, the reverends, 328 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: the doormen and doctors, the sharecroppers and soldiers. They are 329 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: all protagonists in our epic adventure. Spoiler alert, the hero 330 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: of this story does not die ever. This hero is 331 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: long suffering, but unkillable, bloody, and unbowed. In this story 332 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: and in all the subsequent sequels now and forever. This 333 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: hero almost never wins, but we still get to be 334 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: the heroes of the true American stories simply because we 335 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: are undestructible. Try as they might, we will never be 336 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: extinguished ever. 337 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: Trying to figure out why you got to read excerpt. 338 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: That's that's the only one I read because he's one 339 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: of my favorite and of course Heaven McGhee the Some 340 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: of Us again evidence I do books, wrote wrote really 341 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: beautifully and I think accessively about why black, brown, working 342 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: class white folks should be in common cause with each other. 343 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: And then this is my political scientist in me, because 344 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: I think these are very important for anyone who is 345 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: interested in strategy around politics, the Art of war. Of 346 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: course Sunsu the Well which one Tachi ching is also 347 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: a must read, and the Analects of Confucius, and I 348 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: just think these are important philosophical documents. And in the 349 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: Art of War, I think it is really tactical and strategic, 350 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: and it is revived centuries, uh, and it's still highly 351 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: regarded by I think political scientists around strategies, strategies to win. 352 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: And then just a just a slight favorite. Uh. The 353 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: obstacle is the Way. I said, I think during our 354 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: New Year's show that the only way is through. You know, 355 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: you try to feel like Lee, It's just there's too much, 356 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: you know, I just want to blink out, numb out, 357 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: and so The Obstacles the Way is one of those 358 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: books that just sort of helps to encourage you to 359 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: push through. Well, have I got a lot of favorites. 360 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 3: I've not read any of the books that you guys reference, 361 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 3: so yeah, but this is great because now, yes, exactly 362 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 3: what black A f history, of course, but the other 363 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 3: books I had in all the books, Angela read your 364 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 3: home book. I've read my own book, but the Assada Chaqueur, 365 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 3: I'd really like to read that one. In the conversations 366 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 3: I've had with the elders lately, her name has come 367 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 3: up a lot, so I think I'm gonna put that 368 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 3: next on my list, So thank you, guys. Mine is 369 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 3: How to Say Babylon by Sophia Sinclair. And this was 370 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 3: recommended to me by Van Newkirk, who also recommended that 371 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 3: I write a book. I write my second book, but 372 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 3: it's so beautifully written. I mean, just somebody I didn't know, 373 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 3: and you might think, well, why do I want to 374 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 3: read a memoir someone I didn't know, but it was 375 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 3: so beautifully written and so captivating. 376 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 4: I love it. 377 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: I'm about to order it. 378 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 4: And who has already. 379 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: Talked about black a f history, but Michael Harritt Harriet 380 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 3: Harry ots Michael Harriet is such a gift and his 381 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 3: book was so popular. It was on the New York 382 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 3: Times bestseller list forever fell off and then inexplicably just 383 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 3: bounced back on there because I think people were like, oh, 384 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: I know it was a dope, but there are still 385 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: have so many yes. And I have so many highlights 386 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: of this book. Another one, the Love Songs of W. E. B. D. 387 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 4: Boys. 388 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 3: This is fiction, but it is beautifully beautifully written and 389 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 3: takes you through generations and time. I have others that 390 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: I don't have pictures of, but The Poison What Bible 391 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 3: is probably my all time favorite book by Barbara Kingsolver. 392 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 3: I give that book away, and Michael Harriet's book away. 393 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 3: And another book, Ghana Must Go, And I'm embarrassed to 394 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 3: not remember the writer's name. She's a woman, but it's 395 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: just an amazing book about three siblings who are Ghanaian 396 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 3: and it goes back and forth with them from Ghana 397 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 3: to America. 398 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 4: So that's my book. 399 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 3: So if you guys are looking for something to read, 400 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 3: that's your NLP, this summer reading list or autumn reading 401 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 3: list or whenever you get to your read Yes, exactly. 402 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: I'm reading something from this now. 403 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 6: Okay, this is from Resma and I and I think 404 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 6: it goes back to I know this is an evergreen episode, 405 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 6: so God only knows, but this goes back to our 406 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 6: episode from today that we recorded prior. This is about 407 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 6: when democracy falls? Is I guess the name of the episode, 408 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 6: something like that. It says an African American elder said 409 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 6: to me recently. There is a root to the trauma tree, 410 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 6: and what we see now is the fruit that tree, 411 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 6: which was planted roughly fifteen centuries ago, now casts a 412 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 6: shadow across our entire nation. Today, many of us still 413 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 6: feed each other. It's bitter, poisonous fruit. None of us 414 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 6: ask for this trauma, none of us deserves it, yet 415 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 6: none of us can avoid it. It is part of 416 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 6: our personal and national histories. In many American bodies, the 417 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 6: Civil War, or the American Revolution, or the Crusades rages on. 418 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: Today. 419 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 6: We're head of reckoning. We Americans have an opportunity and 420 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 6: an obligation to recognize the trauma embedded in our bodies, 421 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 6: to accept and metabolize the clean pain of healing, and 422 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 6: to move through and out of our trauma. This will 423 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 6: enable us to mend our hearts and bodies and to 424 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 6: grow up. 425 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 3: That That is why I like reading, because I would 426 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 3: read that over and over. It's beautiful to hear you 427 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 3: read it. But I don't even know if I could. 428 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 3: That was so poetic and literate. And yes, like. 429 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 6: That's the thing that you'll like about this tip, really 430 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 6: and I'm serious, like I'm not even saying this because 431 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 6: of what you just said, and it didn't occur to 432 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 6: me though right now. I think what you will appreciate 433 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 6: about this book in particular right now because of what 434 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 6: you're moving through, And honestly, I might challenge us all 435 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 6: to I'll pick it back up, Andrew. 436 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 2: I would read this with you too. 437 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 6: There are somatic body based practices in this book at 438 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 6: the end of each chapter to help you move through 439 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 6: the trauma that you carry in your DNA and the 440 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:58,239 Speaker 6: trauma that you are currently experiencing by just living in 441 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 6: this country. And so I think that it really is 442 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 6: a good like I was going through it in twenty twenty. Yeah, 443 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 6: but I think it's a great thing to just to 444 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 6: have an embodied practice to you know, metabolize the history, 445 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 6: to feel what you're feeling from a DNA and ancestral 446 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 6: memory standpoint, to feel what you're experiencing as you carry 447 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 6: what feels familiar even though we haven't lift it before. 448 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 6: But like the breathwork of it all, like tapping into 449 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 6: your nervous system, tapping into your survival instinct. 450 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: No one want to tap out of it, humming. 451 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 6: You know, the practices that are like tapping your foot, 452 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 6: those are all things that our ancestors did, and part 453 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 6: of that was helping them to move through their trauma. 454 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I will read a quick excerpt because the 455 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 3: only one sentence this is from Octavia Butler, parable of 456 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 3: the Sewer, and I didn't mention this book, but I 457 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 3: strongly encourage everyone to read that. It begins in twenty 458 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 3: twenty four, but it was written in the eighties or 459 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 3: maybe the seventies. And this speaks to something that we've 460 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 3: talked about a few times on the podcast over the 461 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 3: weeks and months about immigration and people being shipped off 462 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 3: to offshore torture camps, and it's just one sentence. The 463 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 3: main the protagonist is a young girl and she has 464 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 3: a disorder some might say, I'm called hyper empathy, and 465 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 3: it causes her to feel whatever the other person is feeling, 466 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 3: So which is can be a good thing or it 467 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 3: could be a bad thing. If you're having sex with somebody, 468 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: you have your orgasm, you feel their orgasm. 469 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 4: If someone has yes, yes, good point. 470 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 3: If someone unfortunately, if someone is getting raped, you feel 471 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 3: their pleasure, but you feel your own terror and pain. 472 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 3: So the book goes through a lot of things as 473 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: she navigates her own hyper empathy. So the one sentence 474 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 3: I would just read is when she says, if everyone 475 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: could feel everyone else's pain, who would torture amen? So 476 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 3: maybe we can move with a little bit of empathy 477 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: and imagine that we could feel everybody else. 478 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 4: With pain. 479 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 3: And Welcome home. 480 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 4: Welcome Home. 481 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 6: Native lamppod is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership 482 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 6: with Reason Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 483 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 484 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 6: your favorite shows.