1 00:00:15,422 --> 00:00:30,222 Speaker 1: Pushkin last time on Where's Dea? 2 00:00:32,502 --> 00:00:34,902 Speaker 2: I think we just got called over to put all 3 00:00:34,942 --> 00:00:38,742 Speaker 2: kinds of footprints everywhere and to just damage the crime 4 00:00:38,782 --> 00:00:39,502 Speaker 2: scene basically. 5 00:00:40,262 --> 00:00:43,022 Speaker 3: You know, in my opinion, they've always known it was 6 00:00:43,062 --> 00:00:48,182 Speaker 3: a month because the video shows that. Why the video 7 00:00:48,342 --> 00:00:50,222 Speaker 3: that was here at the range. 8 00:00:59,382 --> 00:01:03,902 Speaker 1: One day, about three years after Dea went missing, the 9 00:01:03,982 --> 00:01:09,822 Speaker 1: Riverside Sheriff's Department made a dramatic move around a police 10 00:01:09,862 --> 00:01:13,862 Speaker 1: cars swarmed beneath a Vista ranch. A white and green 11 00:01:14,022 --> 00:01:19,702 Speaker 1: sheriff's helicopter flew above. Local CBS news reporter David Godfredson 12 00:01:20,342 --> 00:01:23,582 Speaker 1: rushed to the scene to report the unfolding events. 13 00:01:24,022 --> 00:01:27,062 Speaker 4: Neighbors woke up early Sunday morning to the sound of 14 00:01:27,102 --> 00:01:32,142 Speaker 4: a sheriff's helicopter flying over Dia Abrams Ranch near Idlewild. 15 00:01:32,702 --> 00:01:37,702 Speaker 1: The cops demanded through a loudspeaker that Keith Harper come outside. 16 00:01:38,582 --> 00:01:43,542 Speaker 1: They handed him a search warrant and on a large trailer. 17 00:01:44,062 --> 00:01:48,502 Speaker 1: The cops carted in a heavy back home, presumably to dig. 18 00:01:53,782 --> 00:01:57,742 Speaker 5: Did you hear what happened a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, 19 00:01:57,822 --> 00:02:00,102 Speaker 5: they went in a helicopter and all that, you know, 20 00:02:00,542 --> 00:02:01,782 Speaker 5: which was like ray. 21 00:02:01,862 --> 00:02:07,702 Speaker 1: Finally Julie Stanford is DEA's longtime Idle Wild friend. When 22 00:02:07,742 --> 00:02:11,222 Speaker 1: I spoke to her in octob twenty twenty three, the 23 00:02:11,262 --> 00:02:15,302 Speaker 1: cops had just searched the ranch for her. It felt 24 00:02:15,302 --> 00:02:16,462 Speaker 1: like a glimmer of hope. 25 00:02:16,902 --> 00:02:19,742 Speaker 5: They must think out because how could they go there 26 00:02:19,862 --> 00:02:23,222 Speaker 5: in today? Did the helicopter and all the police? 27 00:02:23,542 --> 00:02:24,702 Speaker 6: Hopefully they have something. 28 00:02:26,822 --> 00:02:31,942 Speaker 1: This all happened three years after Dia disappeared. I couldn't 29 00:02:31,982 --> 00:02:35,502 Speaker 1: help but wonder what information the cops had that made 30 00:02:35,542 --> 00:02:38,302 Speaker 1: them search the ranch again. They would have had to 31 00:02:38,342 --> 00:02:41,862 Speaker 1: show probable cause to get that search warrant, that a 32 00:02:41,902 --> 00:02:46,302 Speaker 1: crime had likely occurred on the ranch and that evidence 33 00:02:46,382 --> 00:02:49,782 Speaker 1: of the crime was going to be found there. Though 34 00:02:50,222 --> 00:02:52,262 Speaker 1: when I tried to get a copy of the warrant 35 00:02:52,382 --> 00:02:56,142 Speaker 1: from Riverside Superior Court, they told me there wasn't one 36 00:02:56,182 --> 00:02:59,542 Speaker 1: for that date and redirected me to the one from 37 00:02:59,582 --> 00:03:07,222 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I don't know what the cops found at 38 00:03:07,262 --> 00:03:10,582 Speaker 1: the ranch, if anything, because they haven't responded to my 39 00:03:10,702 --> 00:03:14,982 Speaker 1: questions about it. But what I do know is Harper 40 00:03:15,062 --> 00:03:20,462 Speaker 1: wasn't arrested and he continued living at Bunnita Vista. It 41 00:03:20,542 --> 00:03:25,302 Speaker 1: felt like a huge anticlimax. This sudden flurry of activity, 42 00:03:25,742 --> 00:03:29,102 Speaker 1: and then once again pretty much nothing as far as 43 00:03:29,102 --> 00:03:38,422 Speaker 1: I could tell. Unlike the cops, Clinton, Abrams, dear Son, 44 00:03:38,742 --> 00:03:42,302 Speaker 1: and Harper have been willing to share what they've discovered 45 00:03:42,422 --> 00:03:46,542 Speaker 1: along the way. Clinton has interviewed people who knew Dea 46 00:03:47,062 --> 00:03:50,982 Speaker 1: and followed all kinds of leads, leads that even I 47 00:03:51,142 --> 00:03:55,742 Speaker 1: thought were too outlandish to pursue. As for Harper, well, 48 00:03:56,582 --> 00:04:01,342 Speaker 1: he's still working with those psychics. In our season finale, 49 00:04:01,982 --> 00:04:06,502 Speaker 1: where things stand today as the search for Dea continues, 50 00:04:10,782 --> 00:04:16,942 Speaker 1: I'm Lucy Sheriff, and this is Where's Deer? Episode six, 51 00:04:17,902 --> 00:04:19,342 Speaker 1: Spoils of War. 52 00:04:32,062 --> 00:04:34,022 Speaker 7: The food is in my truck and the waters in 53 00:04:34,102 --> 00:04:34,502 Speaker 7: my truck. 54 00:04:34,742 --> 00:04:36,182 Speaker 3: I have a case of water on the boat, and 55 00:04:36,222 --> 00:04:38,582 Speaker 3: I have a fifty five gallon cooler on the boat. 56 00:04:38,902 --> 00:04:43,182 Speaker 1: You might remember Kelly Snyder from an earlier episode. He's 57 00:04:43,262 --> 00:04:47,022 Speaker 1: the former Dea agent who runs Find Me, the nonprofit 58 00:04:47,142 --> 00:04:48,742 Speaker 1: that searches for missing people. 59 00:04:49,782 --> 00:04:52,862 Speaker 7: You didn't get the word that I brought five hundred 60 00:04:52,862 --> 00:04:53,782 Speaker 7: bottles of water. 61 00:04:56,222 --> 00:04:58,342 Speaker 1: Right around the time the police showed up at the ranch. 62 00:04:58,422 --> 00:05:02,862 Speaker 1: Last year, Kelly, Harper and some others embarked on a 63 00:05:02,902 --> 00:05:04,142 Speaker 1: search for Deer's body. 64 00:05:04,902 --> 00:05:07,022 Speaker 7: Keith you ready. 65 00:05:07,702 --> 00:05:11,222 Speaker 1: I was out of the country, so one of my producers, Jacob, 66 00:05:11,702 --> 00:05:17,102 Speaker 1: tagged along instead. The team was going to search the 67 00:05:17,142 --> 00:05:20,862 Speaker 1: same lake the cops had searched years earlier with their 68 00:05:20,902 --> 00:05:26,102 Speaker 1: sonar equipment and divers, although the FINMI group was focusing 69 00:05:26,102 --> 00:05:29,702 Speaker 1: on the shoreline of the reservoir rather than the murky 70 00:05:29,782 --> 00:05:34,782 Speaker 1: lake bed. And actually this was Harper and Kelly's second 71 00:05:34,782 --> 00:05:38,542 Speaker 1: time going to this particular part of Lake Hemmett. They'd 72 00:05:38,582 --> 00:05:42,302 Speaker 1: gone three months earlier with cadaver dogs and there'd been 73 00:05:42,422 --> 00:05:49,302 Speaker 1: a promising development. The dogs had shown interests. 74 00:05:47,742 --> 00:05:50,542 Speaker 7: Here, and when you have three dogs showing interests in 75 00:05:50,582 --> 00:05:55,382 Speaker 7: this same exact area, then that's telling you something to 76 00:05:56,102 --> 00:06:01,222 Speaker 7: indicate that more than likely there's human remains in this vicinity. 77 00:06:02,502 --> 00:06:05,422 Speaker 1: But it wasn't just the dog's reaction that brought them 78 00:06:05,462 --> 00:06:10,142 Speaker 1: back to this spot. Like I mentioned before, Kelly's network 79 00:06:10,182 --> 00:06:14,062 Speaker 1: of psychics share coordinates of where they thought deer could 80 00:06:14,102 --> 00:06:17,702 Speaker 1: be buried, and this spot in Lake Hemmett was one 81 00:06:17,742 --> 00:06:22,022 Speaker 1: of them, so they felt like this place had potential. 82 00:06:23,302 --> 00:06:26,542 Speaker 1: On the first search, though they couldn't reach the area 83 00:06:26,582 --> 00:06:28,022 Speaker 1: where the dogs showed interest. 84 00:06:28,462 --> 00:06:31,622 Speaker 7: The hall is approximately thirty to forty feet deep and 85 00:06:31,782 --> 00:06:34,542 Speaker 7: at a time, we didn't have the dog's harnesses to 86 00:06:34,622 --> 00:06:37,382 Speaker 7: lower them into the area. This time, we brought our 87 00:06:37,422 --> 00:06:40,782 Speaker 7: boat and we're going to approach the area from the lake, 88 00:06:41,422 --> 00:06:44,022 Speaker 7: and then the dogs can walk easily into the hole 89 00:06:44,182 --> 00:06:48,982 Speaker 7: where we believe that dea abrams remains are either buried 90 00:06:49,102 --> 00:06:56,782 Speaker 7: or somewhere in that vicinity. 91 00:06:56,822 --> 00:07:00,822 Speaker 1: This time around, they approached the spot from two different angles. 92 00:07:01,462 --> 00:07:04,982 Speaker 1: The dogs and their handlers go by boat, Harper, Kelly 93 00:07:05,182 --> 00:07:09,422 Speaker 1: and Jacob go by land, hiking towards the embankment. 94 00:07:09,222 --> 00:07:09,822 Speaker 3: The next one. 95 00:07:10,222 --> 00:07:13,942 Speaker 8: You see where that rod's coming down from the telephone pole. 96 00:07:14,262 --> 00:07:15,942 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what I was zeroing in on. 97 00:07:17,022 --> 00:07:20,062 Speaker 1: The search team reaches the shore and the dogs do 98 00:07:20,142 --> 00:07:28,062 Speaker 1: their thing. After some time, the dog handler's hike over 99 00:07:28,142 --> 00:07:31,662 Speaker 1: to Harper and Kelly to give them an update. Their 100 00:07:31,662 --> 00:07:34,822 Speaker 1: dog soul detected something. 101 00:07:35,942 --> 00:07:39,742 Speaker 9: Full alert from soul. I got a full alert from sol. 102 00:07:41,662 --> 00:07:43,822 Speaker 7: If you've got a full blown alert, then. 103 00:07:45,262 --> 00:07:49,062 Speaker 3: Then that is a body. 104 00:07:49,102 --> 00:07:49,622 Speaker 5: But there's. 105 00:07:51,782 --> 00:07:55,542 Speaker 1: The cadaver dogs alerted to some kind of human presence. 106 00:07:56,262 --> 00:07:59,142 Speaker 1: But as one of the dog handlers points out, the 107 00:07:59,222 --> 00:08:02,502 Speaker 1: dog could be picking up on anything with a trace 108 00:08:02,662 --> 00:08:08,342 Speaker 1: of what's referred to as human decomposition. Basically the sentences 109 00:08:08,382 --> 00:08:12,062 Speaker 1: emitted by human remains. 110 00:08:12,742 --> 00:08:16,102 Speaker 3: Don't you ass panties, diapers, campons. 111 00:08:16,222 --> 00:08:20,822 Speaker 1: We're all over this lake without digging, there's no way 112 00:08:20,862 --> 00:08:25,142 Speaker 1: to know exactly what's there, and Kelly won't dig without 113 00:08:25,142 --> 00:08:30,342 Speaker 1: the cops present, and so reluctantly they have to stop there. 114 00:08:31,142 --> 00:08:34,142 Speaker 1: Kelly will take note of their coordinates and send them 115 00:08:34,142 --> 00:08:37,342 Speaker 1: over to the cops, hoping they'll return to the site 116 00:08:37,622 --> 00:08:44,222 Speaker 1: and continue the search. Kelly and Harper are disappointed, to 117 00:08:44,262 --> 00:08:48,422 Speaker 1: say the least, and somewhat surprised. They look down the 118 00:08:48,462 --> 00:08:52,942 Speaker 1: embankment towards the lake at a washout of fallen trees 119 00:08:53,062 --> 00:08:53,702 Speaker 1: and debris. 120 00:08:55,382 --> 00:08:59,902 Speaker 7: I would have given money on this spot, though, I 121 00:08:59,902 --> 00:09:01,622 Speaker 7: mean that to me, that's just perfect. 122 00:09:01,782 --> 00:09:05,702 Speaker 8: But see where I would I would do it right 123 00:09:06,262 --> 00:09:06,982 Speaker 8: down in here. 124 00:09:07,062 --> 00:09:08,142 Speaker 7: But how do you get there? 125 00:09:08,582 --> 00:09:10,022 Speaker 3: Well, there's a trail. 126 00:09:10,302 --> 00:09:13,302 Speaker 7: I know there's a trail, but holy shit, you're carrying 127 00:09:13,302 --> 00:09:14,142 Speaker 7: a body, Keith. 128 00:09:14,862 --> 00:09:17,982 Speaker 1: Throughout this search, Kelly has been on and off the 129 00:09:17,982 --> 00:09:21,862 Speaker 1: phone with one of his psychics. She's been advising them 130 00:09:22,062 --> 00:09:24,582 Speaker 1: on where she thinks Dia is buried. 131 00:09:25,502 --> 00:09:26,342 Speaker 7: I would tell her to. 132 00:09:26,422 --> 00:09:29,302 Speaker 8: Summon Stea if she's a better one sea, if she can. 133 00:09:29,142 --> 00:09:35,182 Speaker 1: See us Kelly calls his psychic one last time, just 134 00:09:35,262 --> 00:09:38,742 Speaker 1: in case DIA's given her any extra guidance. 135 00:09:41,542 --> 00:09:46,422 Speaker 7: Pretty much, she said, Dia didn't come to her. 136 00:09:47,422 --> 00:09:48,422 Speaker 4: God damn it. 137 00:09:50,742 --> 00:09:53,982 Speaker 7: Ah she asked her to. And that was what two 138 00:09:54,062 --> 00:09:57,742 Speaker 7: three hours ago. 139 00:10:01,382 --> 00:10:01,622 Speaker 5: Ship. 140 00:10:04,382 --> 00:10:06,782 Speaker 8: I feel ten times more and better if we just 141 00:10:07,062 --> 00:10:08,742 Speaker 8: do without one sch. 142 00:10:10,822 --> 00:10:15,342 Speaker 1: Harper has fixated on one particular spot that the psychics 143 00:10:15,382 --> 00:10:20,342 Speaker 1: pinpointed and that he previously marked with flax. He wants 144 00:10:20,382 --> 00:10:22,182 Speaker 1: the dogs to search it again. 145 00:10:22,742 --> 00:10:24,942 Speaker 8: I just don't want to pass up an opportunity that 146 00:10:25,182 --> 00:10:26,382 Speaker 8: could well. 147 00:10:26,342 --> 00:10:29,902 Speaker 7: Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, but that's not 148 00:10:29,942 --> 00:10:33,342 Speaker 7: where the dog showed interest. That's the only reason I 149 00:10:33,382 --> 00:10:37,582 Speaker 7: would say would discount it. That it would be not 150 00:10:37,622 --> 00:10:39,262 Speaker 7: necessarily a waste of time, But. 151 00:10:43,862 --> 00:10:47,462 Speaker 8: It's just if you have if you have someone a 152 00:10:47,502 --> 00:10:52,302 Speaker 8: psyche telling you that it's in between certain flags and 153 00:10:52,382 --> 00:10:56,142 Speaker 8: it's all in this area, would it hurt to spend 154 00:10:56,262 --> 00:10:59,582 Speaker 8: another hour or two just search in the general area 155 00:10:59,702 --> 00:11:00,462 Speaker 8: one more time? 156 00:11:00,822 --> 00:11:04,462 Speaker 1: But Harper is vetoed, and so the search party and 157 00:11:04,582 --> 00:11:08,462 Speaker 1: Jacob DeCamp back to Benita Vista Ranch to try and 158 00:11:08,542 --> 00:11:11,182 Speaker 1: unpack the and have so much needed lunch. 159 00:11:13,182 --> 00:11:15,582 Speaker 7: Can I get some fricken bread here pretty soon, he's 160 00:11:15,582 --> 00:11:16,102 Speaker 7: working on it. 161 00:11:16,142 --> 00:11:17,262 Speaker 10: Man, dude, calm down. 162 00:11:18,302 --> 00:11:21,262 Speaker 1: One of the dog handlers takes out his phone and 163 00:11:21,382 --> 00:11:23,902 Speaker 1: shows the group a video of the spot where the 164 00:11:23,942 --> 00:11:26,982 Speaker 1: dog alerted. Harper gets agitated. 165 00:11:28,222 --> 00:11:31,862 Speaker 8: Okay, that was that a location of where the body was. 166 00:11:32,862 --> 00:11:34,542 Speaker 6: It was a location of something. 167 00:11:36,822 --> 00:11:37,022 Speaker 2: I do. 168 00:11:37,022 --> 00:11:39,822 Speaker 8: I don't need to hear this, well, need to hear 169 00:11:40,582 --> 00:11:43,942 Speaker 8: more specific. Do we have a location where we believe 170 00:11:44,022 --> 00:11:44,662 Speaker 8: that she is. 171 00:11:45,782 --> 00:11:48,822 Speaker 9: We have a location where we believe something is that's 172 00:11:48,822 --> 00:11:49,742 Speaker 9: putting active. 173 00:11:49,702 --> 00:11:52,022 Speaker 1: Under a bol it's a boulder. 174 00:11:52,102 --> 00:11:58,462 Speaker 9: I cannot say that that is a body and but 175 00:11:58,662 --> 00:12:01,702 Speaker 9: human decom I mean, my dogs are trained to alert 176 00:12:01,742 --> 00:12:06,582 Speaker 9: on a tube, a fragment of a bone, any blood tissue. 177 00:12:07,022 --> 00:12:10,822 Speaker 8: So in your opinion, there's something. 178 00:12:10,662 --> 00:12:12,822 Speaker 9: Something, something putting decomp off. 179 00:12:13,222 --> 00:12:15,502 Speaker 1: Finally, Harper seems to give up. 180 00:12:16,502 --> 00:12:21,862 Speaker 8: So my understanding is that we're going to file a report. 181 00:12:21,902 --> 00:12:24,422 Speaker 8: We're not going back out right. We're done. 182 00:12:24,622 --> 00:12:27,062 Speaker 9: I don't think there's much we can do in that area. 183 00:12:27,142 --> 00:12:30,022 Speaker 9: I mean that we haven't already covered, unless we've got 184 00:12:30,102 --> 00:12:31,062 Speaker 9: new areas to search. 185 00:12:34,862 --> 00:12:37,822 Speaker 1: I debriefed with Kelly a few months after the search. 186 00:12:38,542 --> 00:12:41,382 Speaker 1: He was still confident that deer is buried in that 187 00:12:41,462 --> 00:12:45,982 Speaker 1: lake Hemett's spot where the dog alerted. He tells me 188 00:12:46,142 --> 00:12:49,462 Speaker 1: he sent a second report to the Riverside Sheriff's Department. 189 00:12:50,182 --> 00:12:53,302 Speaker 1: But as far as I know, they've not taken any action. 190 00:12:54,062 --> 00:12:57,822 Speaker 11: They have not gone back to search for our dogs, 191 00:12:57,822 --> 00:13:02,302 Speaker 11: who incidentally, never, never, never mist say that there's something 192 00:13:02,382 --> 00:13:06,062 Speaker 11: human where they alerted two of our dogs, our best dogs, 193 00:13:06,982 --> 00:13:09,102 Speaker 11: And as far as we know, they have not gone there. 194 00:13:16,062 --> 00:13:21,382 Speaker 1: As I say these words, Dea is still missing. We 195 00:13:21,462 --> 00:13:26,422 Speaker 1: can't even say whether she's dead or alive. It's easy 196 00:13:26,502 --> 00:13:29,422 Speaker 1: to get caught up in the chaos of DEA's story, 197 00:13:30,022 --> 00:13:33,422 Speaker 1: people turning on each other, wild theories that are almost 198 00:13:33,502 --> 00:13:38,542 Speaker 1: too wild to believe. There is, after all, a special 199 00:13:38,662 --> 00:13:42,102 Speaker 1: kind of ugliness that rears its head when money's involved. 200 00:13:45,182 --> 00:13:47,662 Speaker 1: But I keep coming back to the fact that at 201 00:13:47,702 --> 00:13:50,742 Speaker 1: the center of all of this is a woman who 202 00:13:50,782 --> 00:13:54,702 Speaker 1: one day in twenty twenty just suddenly disappeared from her 203 00:13:54,742 --> 00:13:59,062 Speaker 1: own home. One moment she was there, the next moment 204 00:13:59,222 --> 00:14:04,262 Speaker 1: she was not. And that, regardless of who, or how 205 00:14:04,462 --> 00:14:11,182 Speaker 1: or why, is truly heartbreaking. For now, all that remains 206 00:14:11,462 --> 00:14:14,422 Speaker 1: is a group of people racing to find out the 207 00:14:14,502 --> 00:14:18,502 Speaker 1: truth in their own way, racing against the clock as 208 00:14:18,582 --> 00:14:26,822 Speaker 1: one very important date swiftly approaches. More on that after 209 00:14:26,862 --> 00:14:50,222 Speaker 1: the break in the background of all of these searches 210 00:14:50,382 --> 00:14:55,302 Speaker 1: and theories, a date is fast looming. Sixth of June 211 00:14:55,702 --> 00:15:00,062 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. That's the day the Deer will be 212 00:15:00,102 --> 00:15:04,702 Speaker 1: declared dead. Her estate will be split up fifty percent 213 00:15:04,742 --> 00:15:08,422 Speaker 1: to Harper, twenty five percent to Clinton, and twenty five 214 00:15:08,422 --> 00:15:13,862 Speaker 1: percent cross her daughter. It's hard to imagine that the 215 00:15:13,942 --> 00:15:17,902 Speaker 1: date isn't on everyone's mind like some ticking time bomb, 216 00:15:18,862 --> 00:15:21,462 Speaker 1: because if any of those three are found to be 217 00:15:21,542 --> 00:15:31,942 Speaker 1: involved in Deer's disappearance, they get nothing. While Harper search 218 00:15:32,062 --> 00:15:38,182 Speaker 1: with dogs and psychics, Clinton focused on tactics. He pushed 219 00:15:38,222 --> 00:15:41,902 Speaker 1: for some of Deer's property to be liquidated, and with 220 00:15:42,102 --> 00:15:46,782 Speaker 1: those funds, the court appointed guardian who represents Deer's estate 221 00:15:47,502 --> 00:15:52,542 Speaker 1: set up a tip hotline and a three hundred thousand 222 00:15:52,582 --> 00:15:57,142 Speaker 1: dollars reward was established for anyone with information leading to 223 00:15:57,182 --> 00:16:02,142 Speaker 1: an arrest and conviction or the discovery of Deer's whereabouts. 224 00:16:03,702 --> 00:16:09,182 Speaker 1: But this wasn't just any old reward, oh No, this, 225 00:16:09,342 --> 00:16:13,182 Speaker 1: as Clinton explained to me, was a trap for Harper. 226 00:16:20,102 --> 00:16:24,142 Speaker 10: Well, the way I structured it was that the reward 227 00:16:24,262 --> 00:16:26,862 Speaker 10: was going to be the bait and it would be 228 00:16:27,942 --> 00:16:31,062 Speaker 10: made manifest that he was involved in my mother's disappearance, 229 00:16:31,822 --> 00:16:34,462 Speaker 10: and he wouldn't get anything, and we'd have the case 230 00:16:34,502 --> 00:16:36,062 Speaker 10: solved and we'd have him removed. 231 00:16:36,982 --> 00:16:40,822 Speaker 1: Right. So was it your idea then, to because there's 232 00:16:40,862 --> 00:16:46,222 Speaker 1: that really interesting caveat where if one party is found 233 00:16:46,222 --> 00:16:49,902 Speaker 1: to have an involvement, everything goes to the other party. 234 00:16:50,062 --> 00:16:51,022 Speaker 1: Was that your suggestion? 235 00:16:51,462 --> 00:16:51,662 Speaker 11: Yeah? 236 00:16:51,702 --> 00:16:52,062 Speaker 6: That was me. 237 00:16:53,182 --> 00:16:55,182 Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay. 238 00:16:55,182 --> 00:16:57,582 Speaker 6: That was my little trap strategy. 239 00:16:58,542 --> 00:17:03,622 Speaker 1: But it backfired. Despite his efforts, Clinton has never been 240 00:17:03,662 --> 00:17:06,982 Speaker 1: able to pin anything on Harper, and now Harper is 241 00:17:06,982 --> 00:17:09,782 Speaker 1: in Lyne to get fifty percent of his mother estate. 242 00:17:10,782 --> 00:17:14,302 Speaker 1: It was a gamble, Clinton admits, and now he regrets it. 243 00:17:14,902 --> 00:17:16,662 Speaker 1: He gambled too much. 244 00:17:17,262 --> 00:17:21,702 Speaker 6: Ah, and I couldn't believe that I compromised with Yeah 245 00:17:21,862 --> 00:17:22,342 Speaker 6: the devil. 246 00:17:26,302 --> 00:17:30,502 Speaker 1: When that little trap didn't work, Clinton tried something else. 247 00:17:31,102 --> 00:17:35,902 Speaker 1: He attempted to work with Harper directly. Harper sent me 248 00:17:35,942 --> 00:17:39,822 Speaker 1: a screenshot of their conversation, and this is what Clinton 249 00:17:39,902 --> 00:17:45,302 Speaker 1: texted him. Harper, you want to deal. What is the deal? Clinton? 250 00:17:46,382 --> 00:17:48,702 Speaker 1: I want you to flip on all the others. I 251 00:17:48,742 --> 00:17:52,422 Speaker 1: can get you off free. This can't stay secret. Forever 252 00:17:52,982 --> 00:17:56,342 Speaker 1: you are getting older. I'm not after you for anything 253 00:17:56,382 --> 00:17:59,782 Speaker 1: related to Dea. We can work out finances so you 254 00:17:59,822 --> 00:18:03,022 Speaker 1: are happy if you have real information on what happened 255 00:18:03,022 --> 00:18:08,702 Speaker 1: to Dea. I just want to know. I was definitely 256 00:18:08,782 --> 00:18:12,502 Speaker 1: quite It felt like a pretty brazen move from Clinton. 257 00:18:18,062 --> 00:18:19,582 Speaker 1: Why do you think he's saying that. 258 00:18:23,302 --> 00:18:24,102 Speaker 3: This is what? 259 00:18:24,702 --> 00:18:24,942 Speaker 1: You know? 260 00:18:25,422 --> 00:18:30,262 Speaker 3: I thought originally he was asking to kind of work together. 261 00:18:32,662 --> 00:18:39,062 Speaker 3: And then what I got the more I got into it, 262 00:18:41,782 --> 00:18:50,822 Speaker 3: what he's asking it's for me to come forward and 263 00:18:50,822 --> 00:18:56,302 Speaker 3: and kind of tell him that I'm responsible, and then 264 00:18:57,222 --> 00:18:58,182 Speaker 3: he has something to. 265 00:18:58,182 --> 00:19:02,262 Speaker 6: Go back to law enforcement with. You know, It's what 266 00:19:02,502 --> 00:19:03,782 Speaker 6: I kind of got. 267 00:19:05,382 --> 00:19:07,982 Speaker 1: Clinton insists that he was just trying to get information 268 00:19:08,142 --> 00:19:12,102 Speaker 1: out of Harper. Either way, Harper does not fall for 269 00:19:12,142 --> 00:19:16,262 Speaker 1: Clinton's booby trap. It all feels like a strange loop, 270 00:19:16,822 --> 00:19:22,102 Speaker 1: but it's almost satisfying. These two sides who've been at 271 00:19:22,142 --> 00:19:25,662 Speaker 1: war trying to pin the blame, okay, still trying to 272 00:19:25,702 --> 00:19:28,942 Speaker 1: pin the blame on each other, coming together to try 273 00:19:29,022 --> 00:19:33,622 Speaker 1: to work out some kind of deal. Despite all of 274 00:19:33,662 --> 00:19:39,262 Speaker 1: Clinton's strategizing, nothing really seems to happen to Harper until 275 00:19:39,982 --> 00:19:43,942 Speaker 1: in November twenty twenty three, the same month. As Kelly's search, 276 00:19:44,742 --> 00:19:48,822 Speaker 1: Harper ends up getting into hot water all by himself. 277 00:19:49,662 --> 00:19:55,342 Speaker 1: He gets himself kicked off the ranch. Harper tects a 278 00:19:55,382 --> 00:19:59,702 Speaker 1: real estate agent, asking if she's interested in listing the 279 00:19:59,822 --> 00:20:03,622 Speaker 1: ranch for sale. Word gets out that Harper is trying 280 00:20:03,662 --> 00:20:06,622 Speaker 1: to sell DIA's ranch, even though he doesn't have the 281 00:20:06,702 --> 00:20:11,942 Speaker 1: authority to do so. Five days later, a judge removes 282 00:20:11,982 --> 00:20:20,222 Speaker 1: Harper as trustee of DEA's estate just like that. Later 283 00:20:20,302 --> 00:20:25,782 Speaker 1: that month, eviction notices are posted outside the ranch. It 284 00:20:25,822 --> 00:20:31,742 Speaker 1: seems Harper's time a Benita Vista is up. He denies 285 00:20:31,822 --> 00:20:35,742 Speaker 1: trying to sell the ranch and considers fighting the decision. 286 00:20:37,942 --> 00:20:41,982 Speaker 3: The purpose was determine the value? What is the value 287 00:20:42,142 --> 00:20:49,102 Speaker 3: finally of the property and anyway to judge the spook 288 00:20:49,222 --> 00:20:51,502 Speaker 3: He said, yeah, it looks like you weren't tending the 289 00:20:51,542 --> 00:20:56,462 Speaker 3: list it And I said, no, I was not, And anyway, 290 00:20:57,102 --> 00:20:59,742 Speaker 3: that's how I got removed from trustee. 291 00:21:00,862 --> 00:21:06,062 Speaker 1: Eventually, Harper packs his bags and leaves. Even though he's 292 00:21:06,102 --> 00:21:09,742 Speaker 1: removed as trustee, it doesn't affect him potentially getting half 293 00:21:09,822 --> 00:21:14,462 Speaker 1: of Deer's assets. I call him as he once more 294 00:21:14,662 --> 00:21:18,742 Speaker 1: is doing that long long drive from Idlewild across the 295 00:21:18,782 --> 00:21:21,422 Speaker 1: deserts of Arizona into New Mexico. 296 00:21:23,222 --> 00:21:24,582 Speaker 3: I left the lands today. 297 00:21:25,422 --> 00:21:27,942 Speaker 1: Wow, how does that feel? 298 00:21:28,302 --> 00:21:32,462 Speaker 3: You know, to deal with the tough, tough, tough thing. 299 00:21:33,222 --> 00:21:34,942 Speaker 6: But the situation you. 300 00:21:35,022 --> 00:21:38,462 Speaker 3: Get either you work with the court or you work 301 00:21:38,502 --> 00:21:43,142 Speaker 3: against them, and they can they can take away all 302 00:21:43,182 --> 00:21:51,942 Speaker 3: your privileges, you know. Oh, after long consideration, can't. Some time, 303 00:21:53,142 --> 00:21:57,582 Speaker 3: I decided to leave. And so my concern is this 304 00:21:58,742 --> 00:22:05,222 Speaker 3: that if I'm gone, they will never work at finding her. 305 00:22:08,662 --> 00:22:12,742 Speaker 1: I keep imagining Benita Vista Ranch now that Harper's gone, 306 00:22:13,902 --> 00:22:20,382 Speaker 1: those impressive Western style gates locked and chained shut, deers 307 00:22:20,422 --> 00:22:26,622 Speaker 1: antiques gathering dust, the endless land stretching towards the mountains, 308 00:22:26,662 --> 00:22:30,982 Speaker 1: slowly growing wild. I wonder how Dea would have felt 309 00:22:31,702 --> 00:22:38,142 Speaker 1: her pride and joy, her home sitting empty. Soon it 310 00:22:38,142 --> 00:22:40,982 Speaker 1: could be sold to some stranger who will probably fit 311 00:22:41,022 --> 00:22:44,502 Speaker 1: it out in that modern dude ranch style, and every 312 00:22:44,582 --> 00:22:50,262 Speaker 1: trace of Deer will be gone. But what happens to 313 00:22:50,302 --> 00:22:54,342 Speaker 1: the people in her life, what happens to that vacuum 314 00:22:54,382 --> 00:23:26,742 Speaker 1: she left behind, will be right back in some way 315 00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:30,462 Speaker 1: or another. DEA's disappearance has shaped the life of everyone 316 00:23:30,542 --> 00:23:35,422 Speaker 1: in this podcast, including mine. As I wound down my reporting, 317 00:23:36,342 --> 00:23:39,142 Speaker 1: it felt right to touch base with them all, to 318 00:23:39,182 --> 00:23:42,582 Speaker 1: see how they were moving on, how they were finding closure. 319 00:23:44,502 --> 00:23:47,622 Speaker 1: I'll start with the one silver lining I found in 320 00:23:47,702 --> 00:23:53,102 Speaker 1: all this mess. DEA's siblings Peggy and Jim had told 321 00:23:53,142 --> 00:23:56,182 Speaker 1: me how much they missed their niece and nephew, Chrissara 322 00:23:56,182 --> 00:24:00,142 Speaker 1: and Clinton, how sad they were that their family was estranged. 323 00:24:01,422 --> 00:24:04,622 Speaker 1: And so I spoke to Clinton and I suggested perhaps 324 00:24:04,742 --> 00:24:07,222 Speaker 1: he might want to reconnect with his aunt and uncle, 325 00:24:08,102 --> 00:24:11,022 Speaker 1: given that his father was dead and his mother was 326 00:24:11,062 --> 00:24:14,862 Speaker 1: still missing. Eventually he gave them a call. 327 00:24:15,702 --> 00:24:16,902 Speaker 6: It was unbelievable. 328 00:24:17,102 --> 00:24:21,382 Speaker 4: It was unbelievable seeing just to see our our nephew. 329 00:24:22,182 --> 00:24:24,702 Speaker 1: This is Peggy Kenchlo dear sister. 330 00:24:25,062 --> 00:24:28,582 Speaker 4: And if any anything came out of this tragedy, it's 331 00:24:28,662 --> 00:24:31,662 Speaker 4: this that we have. That we have our nephew back. 332 00:24:32,022 --> 00:24:34,902 Speaker 4: We have him, we have him back. He's our kid. 333 00:24:35,422 --> 00:24:38,582 Speaker 4: You know, I'm sorry about whatever horrible thing happened to 334 00:24:38,662 --> 00:24:41,822 Speaker 4: my sister. I am, but we have my nephew back. 335 00:24:42,902 --> 00:24:46,862 Speaker 1: Peggy's trying hard to move on despite the toll it's 336 00:24:46,862 --> 00:24:48,582 Speaker 1: taken on her and her family. 337 00:24:49,182 --> 00:24:52,822 Speaker 4: It's an emotional Katrina, you know it came in it 338 00:24:52,982 --> 00:24:59,942 Speaker 4: washed everything out. 339 00:25:02,182 --> 00:25:04,982 Speaker 1: She's not the only one who felt like things fell 340 00:25:05,022 --> 00:25:06,782 Speaker 1: apart when dear disappeared. 341 00:25:07,422 --> 00:25:12,222 Speaker 10: It's been a four years of NonStop obsession of the 342 00:25:12,302 --> 00:25:18,742 Speaker 10: mind and the gravitational pull that I cannot seem to 343 00:25:18,862 --> 00:25:20,502 Speaker 10: extricate myself. 344 00:25:20,102 --> 00:25:23,542 Speaker 6: From no matter how hard I try. I just have to. 345 00:25:25,102 --> 00:25:27,382 Speaker 10: Have to do something to always try and move the 346 00:25:27,382 --> 00:25:28,062 Speaker 10: ball forward. 347 00:25:29,542 --> 00:25:33,782 Speaker 1: Thanks to his years of research, Clinton's developed a theory 348 00:25:34,102 --> 00:25:37,342 Speaker 1: about Harper and about what happened to his mother. 349 00:25:38,022 --> 00:25:44,582 Speaker 10: To me, he's pulpable, he's guilty, but he's also serves 350 00:25:44,662 --> 00:25:49,262 Speaker 10: as the patsy, as the fall guy and its low 351 00:25:49,342 --> 00:25:53,542 Speaker 10: hanging fruit. He's the easy, easy guy to pin this on. 352 00:25:54,662 --> 00:25:57,182 Speaker 10: And I think there are so many other people involved 353 00:25:57,262 --> 00:26:01,862 Speaker 10: and so many other people who know. And I think 354 00:26:01,902 --> 00:26:05,262 Speaker 10: as long as law enforcement doesn't pursue those other angles 355 00:26:05,462 --> 00:26:10,222 Speaker 10: and ask, you know, deeper questions, I don't they'll ever 356 00:26:10,262 --> 00:26:10,942 Speaker 10: solve the case. 357 00:26:12,342 --> 00:26:15,622 Speaker 1: Clinton doesn't believe that Harper is solely to blame for 358 00:26:15,702 --> 00:26:16,822 Speaker 1: DEA's disappearance. 359 00:26:17,622 --> 00:26:20,582 Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't give too much credit to Keith Harper. 360 00:26:20,702 --> 00:26:22,942 Speaker 6: I don't think he's a criminal mastermind. I think he 361 00:26:23,022 --> 00:26:23,622 Speaker 6: did buffoon. 362 00:26:24,942 --> 00:26:28,902 Speaker 10: I think focusing too much on him, it just it's 363 00:26:28,982 --> 00:26:30,622 Speaker 10: just too narrow of the perspective. 364 00:26:35,742 --> 00:26:40,782 Speaker 1: His theory is that a motorcycle gang took Dear, an underground, 365 00:26:40,942 --> 00:26:46,502 Speaker 1: sinister intelligence operation that has access to high tech surveillance equipment. 366 00:26:47,462 --> 00:26:53,302 Speaker 1: He believes Harper struck a deal with this gang. Let's 367 00:26:53,302 --> 00:26:56,542 Speaker 1: go with your theory for a minute. If she's kidnapped 368 00:26:56,582 --> 00:27:03,022 Speaker 1: and she's killed by somebody who isn't Harper, what is 369 00:27:03,062 --> 00:27:05,142 Speaker 1: the motive, Like, what are they getting out of it? 370 00:27:08,302 --> 00:27:11,102 Speaker 6: They're getting one hundred and fifteen acre ranch. 371 00:27:12,862 --> 00:27:18,982 Speaker 10: And millions of dollars in antiques, jewelry, and I think 372 00:27:19,022 --> 00:27:21,702 Speaker 10: the actual property was desired. I think there was a 373 00:27:21,862 --> 00:27:25,062 Speaker 10: I think there was a deal amongst multiple people to. 374 00:27:26,822 --> 00:27:29,062 Speaker 6: Split the spoils of war, so to speak. 375 00:27:30,022 --> 00:27:33,142 Speaker 1: Clinton believes this gang would be able to access DearS 376 00:27:33,262 --> 00:27:38,102 Speaker 1: assets through Harper, but there is of course no evidence 377 00:27:38,182 --> 00:27:49,502 Speaker 1: to prove this. When I first interviewed Clinton, we met 378 00:27:49,502 --> 00:27:52,862 Speaker 1: in San Diego, out in the open at a coffee shop, 379 00:27:53,582 --> 00:27:56,382 Speaker 1: but that's the last time we met face to face 380 00:27:57,542 --> 00:28:02,742 Speaker 1: Since his mother disappeared. He seems to have become increasingly paranoid, 381 00:28:03,382 --> 00:28:07,382 Speaker 1: sending me hundreds of emails with what he says is 382 00:28:07,462 --> 00:28:12,422 Speaker 1: evidence he's being Heraz he's convinced his house is bugged, 383 00:28:12,982 --> 00:28:16,382 Speaker 1: that he's under surveillance by this gang who killed Dia. 384 00:28:17,542 --> 00:28:20,502 Speaker 10: I've received a tremendous amount of harassment. Well, I've had 385 00:28:20,782 --> 00:28:27,542 Speaker 10: buried pornography left on my mailbox. I've received unmarked packages 386 00:28:27,702 --> 00:28:35,022 Speaker 10: that contain very obscure threats and also direct threats. I've 387 00:28:35,062 --> 00:28:40,222 Speaker 10: had loud motorcycles that have basically, you know, kind of 388 00:28:40,262 --> 00:28:45,462 Speaker 10: followed me and stocked me for a number of years. 389 00:28:45,942 --> 00:28:49,902 Speaker 1: Clinton is adamant that the same people who killed his 390 00:28:49,942 --> 00:28:51,982 Speaker 1: mother are out to get him. 391 00:28:52,942 --> 00:28:56,262 Speaker 10: I believe it was, you know, a message to me, 392 00:28:56,622 --> 00:28:59,102 Speaker 10: you know, we can get to you too, And I 393 00:28:59,142 --> 00:29:03,022 Speaker 10: truly understand that it, you know, sounds crazy to most people. 394 00:29:06,502 --> 00:29:10,182 Speaker 1: I don't know whether Clinton is paranoid or if he 395 00:29:10,302 --> 00:29:14,302 Speaker 1: is truly being harassed by some kind of gang. But 396 00:29:15,022 --> 00:29:19,462 Speaker 1: he was sent this really crazy package. I've seen pictures 397 00:29:19,462 --> 00:29:23,502 Speaker 1: of it. The envelope didn't have proper postage, so it 398 00:29:23,582 --> 00:29:28,822 Speaker 1: was likely hand delivered. On the front, it said important 399 00:29:28,822 --> 00:29:34,422 Speaker 1: information about Lydia Kenschloe Abrams. There were all these court 400 00:29:34,462 --> 00:29:40,382 Speaker 1: documents inside about rich people who disappeared in mysterious circumstances 401 00:29:40,942 --> 00:29:45,022 Speaker 1: and the fights that ensued over their money. There was 402 00:29:45,062 --> 00:29:49,182 Speaker 1: a letter to which made some pretty far fetched claims. 403 00:29:50,222 --> 00:29:54,462 Speaker 1: It read, the reason for this letter is anonymous because 404 00:29:54,502 --> 00:29:59,542 Speaker 1: the FBI is criminally corrupt. They will a death sentence 405 00:29:59,582 --> 00:30:03,582 Speaker 1: for innocent people to cover up themselves, leaving you with 406 00:30:03,742 --> 00:30:09,142 Speaker 1: no one and nowhere to turn the authorities cannot find bodies. 407 00:30:14,662 --> 00:30:18,542 Speaker 1: The letter ended with an ominous line, we are really 408 00:30:18,702 --> 00:30:21,622 Speaker 1: interested to see how you act when you get this letter, 409 00:30:22,422 --> 00:30:24,982 Speaker 1: because it will tell us a lot about all of you. 410 00:30:27,262 --> 00:30:30,662 Speaker 1: To this day, Clinton has no idea who sent this 411 00:30:31,582 --> 00:30:34,902 Speaker 1: or if they might be involved in Deer's disappearance, but 412 00:30:35,022 --> 00:30:40,822 Speaker 1: understandably it freaked him out. I mean, how concerned have 413 00:30:40,942 --> 00:30:45,022 Speaker 1: you been for your family safety? 414 00:30:45,062 --> 00:30:48,062 Speaker 6: Extremely concerned, very concerned, And have you. 415 00:30:48,662 --> 00:30:53,702 Speaker 1: Thought about just stopping your search? 416 00:30:54,862 --> 00:30:55,302 Speaker 6: Yeah? 417 00:30:56,022 --> 00:30:56,462 Speaker 1: I have. 418 00:30:59,342 --> 00:31:02,902 Speaker 10: I don't know if I can move on so long 419 00:31:03,222 --> 00:31:09,542 Speaker 10: as we don't have answers. So frustrating is that I 420 00:31:09,622 --> 00:31:13,622 Speaker 10: know that people know, but they just won't say. 421 00:31:15,542 --> 00:31:18,142 Speaker 1: The fact that half of Deer's estate will go to 422 00:31:18,222 --> 00:31:22,182 Speaker 1: her maybe maybe not fiancee Keith Harper would be a 423 00:31:22,222 --> 00:31:23,702 Speaker 1: bitter pill for me to swallow. 424 00:31:25,062 --> 00:31:29,942 Speaker 10: It's never been about to me what I get, but 425 00:31:30,062 --> 00:31:35,022 Speaker 10: the principle that he gets fifty percent, when I know 426 00:31:35,182 --> 00:31:38,022 Speaker 10: that he knows what happened to her and is involved 427 00:31:38,782 --> 00:31:39,542 Speaker 10: is disgusting. 428 00:31:41,942 --> 00:31:44,302 Speaker 6: My mother always told my sister and I, this is 429 00:31:44,342 --> 00:31:45,902 Speaker 6: for you kids, This is for you. 430 00:31:45,902 --> 00:31:45,982 Speaker 1: Know. 431 00:31:46,022 --> 00:31:48,342 Speaker 6: I'm building this for you guys. I hope you cherish it. 432 00:31:49,222 --> 00:31:51,822 Speaker 10: And I know she poured her heart and soul into 433 00:31:51,862 --> 00:31:58,582 Speaker 10: that property to an extreme extent and just loved it wholeheartedly. 434 00:31:59,302 --> 00:32:04,142 Speaker 10: And the fact that it's going to be liquidated just 435 00:32:04,902 --> 00:32:09,422 Speaker 10: instantaneously and split amongst all parties breaks my head. Art 436 00:32:11,022 --> 00:32:15,862 Speaker 10: and the fact that Keith Harper, in my view, a scumberg, 437 00:32:16,622 --> 00:32:24,382 Speaker 10: gets fifty percent. I'd rather go to anybody but him. 438 00:32:24,422 --> 00:32:27,542 Speaker 1: It's strange to think back to when I first started 439 00:32:27,582 --> 00:32:32,782 Speaker 1: investigating Deer's disappearance. I was so desperate for Leeds to 440 00:32:32,822 --> 00:32:35,542 Speaker 1: speak to someone who knew her, and I got what 441 00:32:35,582 --> 00:32:39,062 Speaker 1: I wanted. I've had these two men who knew her 442 00:32:39,102 --> 00:32:44,422 Speaker 1: well bombarding me with theories that feel so big, so outlandish, 443 00:32:44,862 --> 00:32:52,622 Speaker 1: that they can't possibly be true, can they. When I 444 00:32:52,702 --> 00:32:55,742 Speaker 1: first interviewed Harper, he told me he didn't know what 445 00:32:55,822 --> 00:33:00,742 Speaker 1: happened to Dea, that perhaps she'd run off. Later, he 446 00:33:00,782 --> 00:33:03,742 Speaker 1: told me he couldn't understand how the surveillance tapes on 447 00:33:03,822 --> 00:33:08,262 Speaker 1: DEA's ranch hadn't captured what had happened to her, And 448 00:33:08,302 --> 00:33:13,062 Speaker 1: then as he began working with Kelly's psychics, Hopper changed 449 00:33:13,062 --> 00:33:17,862 Speaker 1: his story. He told me that the surveillance tapes had 450 00:33:17,942 --> 00:33:22,422 Speaker 1: captured what had happened, that three people had kidnapped her, 451 00:33:23,062 --> 00:33:27,622 Speaker 1: and he'd watched it all. Even now, it's hard to 452 00:33:27,662 --> 00:33:34,622 Speaker 1: pin him down to one concrete story. What now, Like, 453 00:33:35,662 --> 00:33:37,822 Speaker 1: do you think you're ever going to get closure about 454 00:33:37,822 --> 00:33:40,982 Speaker 1: what happened? Like? How long are you going to fight for? 455 00:33:41,262 --> 00:33:42,102 Speaker 4: How long are you going. 456 00:33:42,022 --> 00:33:47,502 Speaker 3: To keep until she is bobbed forward? 457 00:33:48,222 --> 00:33:50,262 Speaker 6: And that could happen in the next. 458 00:33:50,062 --> 00:33:51,022 Speaker 8: Of what weeks? 459 00:33:51,542 --> 00:33:54,302 Speaker 5: So let's say, let's say body is found. 460 00:33:56,142 --> 00:33:59,902 Speaker 1: Do you feel confident that a perpetrator is also going 461 00:33:59,942 --> 00:34:01,502 Speaker 1: to be brought to justice? 462 00:34:02,702 --> 00:34:08,062 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I think once they've put Clinton under investigation, 463 00:34:09,222 --> 00:34:10,182 Speaker 3: he will prayer. 464 00:34:11,862 --> 00:34:16,262 Speaker 1: For now. Harper is living in Colorado, although he still 465 00:34:16,302 --> 00:34:19,502 Speaker 1: owns his eighty five acres of land in a remote 466 00:34:19,582 --> 00:34:24,302 Speaker 1: corner of Arizona. He's filed a motion to get half 467 00:34:24,342 --> 00:34:28,382 Speaker 1: a million dollars out of Deer's estate. Half, he says, 468 00:34:29,102 --> 00:34:31,662 Speaker 1: is to compensate for the time he spent working on 469 00:34:31,702 --> 00:34:35,502 Speaker 1: the ranch. The other half is paying that money, he 470 00:34:35,542 --> 00:34:38,062 Speaker 1: says he put into the ranch while he lived there. 471 00:34:42,942 --> 00:34:47,342 Speaker 1: As for Julie Stamford, she felt like Idlewild changed after 472 00:34:47,382 --> 00:34:51,062 Speaker 1: her friend went missing. It didn't feel like this safe, 473 00:34:51,302 --> 00:34:56,462 Speaker 1: idyllic community anymore. Julie told me she was scared, scared 474 00:34:56,622 --> 00:35:01,142 Speaker 1: that she knew something she wasn't supposed to know, and 475 00:35:01,222 --> 00:35:05,702 Speaker 1: so she left and moved away halfway across the world. 476 00:35:06,702 --> 00:35:12,822 Speaker 1: She's haunted by memories of her friend. I don't know. 477 00:35:13,022 --> 00:35:20,382 Speaker 12: It just an't judge that I couldn't rescue her at 478 00:35:20,422 --> 00:35:22,582 Speaker 12: this time. That was skin killing me, is that I 479 00:35:22,622 --> 00:35:24,142 Speaker 12: couldn't rescue her this time. 480 00:35:25,462 --> 00:35:28,662 Speaker 1: At first, Julie was stuck between theories. 481 00:35:29,382 --> 00:35:32,142 Speaker 5: So to me, the viable suspects are the kids or 482 00:35:32,182 --> 00:35:34,542 Speaker 5: Harper all along, I thoughted toe to one of those. 483 00:35:35,662 --> 00:35:40,342 Speaker 1: Julie remembers a telling remark dea mate sometime after Dia 484 00:35:40,422 --> 00:35:44,022 Speaker 1: had changed her trust to include Harper. She can't remember 485 00:35:44,062 --> 00:35:46,822 Speaker 1: if Dia told her first hand or if she heard 486 00:35:46,822 --> 00:35:51,502 Speaker 1: it from a mutual friend, but what. 487 00:35:51,542 --> 00:35:55,742 Speaker 5: She said when she did the paperwork, she goes, here's 488 00:35:55,782 --> 00:35:57,142 Speaker 5: your damn rant, Harper. 489 00:35:59,302 --> 00:35:59,702 Speaker 1: Wow. 490 00:36:01,502 --> 00:36:05,262 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like she was blugging her for it. I think 491 00:36:05,302 --> 00:36:06,702 Speaker 5: he just wanted stuff. 492 00:36:07,302 --> 00:36:08,502 Speaker 6: He always wanted that. 493 00:36:10,222 --> 00:36:13,862 Speaker 1: It's memories like this that caused Julie to change her 494 00:36:13,942 --> 00:36:18,302 Speaker 1: mind about Clinton and Chrissara and turn her attention to Harper. 495 00:36:18,982 --> 00:36:20,982 Speaker 5: There mull be no reason for the kids to do 496 00:36:21,022 --> 00:36:25,222 Speaker 5: anything George, because they were already asked the will. So 497 00:36:26,062 --> 00:36:29,102 Speaker 5: my basic feeling now, I didn't want to take this 498 00:36:29,142 --> 00:36:31,702 Speaker 5: in the beginning because I liked Harper because Harper was 499 00:36:31,742 --> 00:36:36,022 Speaker 5: helping Dia. But that's not the feeling I have about 500 00:36:36,062 --> 00:36:36,462 Speaker 5: him now. 501 00:36:37,182 --> 00:36:38,462 Speaker 6: I think Harper is. 502 00:36:38,542 --> 00:36:54,902 Speaker 5: Responsible for DIA's disappearance, and I frankly am afraid of him. 503 00:36:55,142 --> 00:36:56,702 Speaker 1: Can I record this conversation? 504 00:36:58,982 --> 00:37:02,302 Speaker 6: You can always record the conversation and nothing to hide. 505 00:37:03,742 --> 00:37:06,942 Speaker 1: Right before we release this series, I gave Harper one 506 00:37:07,022 --> 00:37:10,942 Speaker 1: more call with so many fingers pointed at him. I 507 00:37:10,942 --> 00:37:13,502 Speaker 1: felt like I needed to talk to him again, and 508 00:37:14,062 --> 00:37:17,742 Speaker 1: I questions of my own. I wanted to ask. Even 509 00:37:17,782 --> 00:37:22,942 Speaker 1: in our conversations over the years, I've noticed discrepancies in 510 00:37:23,062 --> 00:37:28,342 Speaker 1: things that you have told me, contradictions, and so it 511 00:37:28,822 --> 00:37:32,462 Speaker 1: doesn't look good. I've got to be honest, it doesn't 512 00:37:32,502 --> 00:37:33,742 Speaker 1: look great. 513 00:37:35,382 --> 00:37:37,142 Speaker 6: Then why are you talking to me there? 514 00:37:38,422 --> 00:37:42,862 Speaker 1: Because I'm I'm a journalist, and it's my job to 515 00:37:43,702 --> 00:37:44,262 Speaker 1: get all. 516 00:37:44,142 --> 00:37:48,102 Speaker 3: Sides of that, bring out, bring out specific things. 517 00:37:48,142 --> 00:37:49,422 Speaker 6: Let's start at that yet. 518 00:37:49,502 --> 00:37:55,062 Speaker 1: Okay, So I brought out specific things. I asked him 519 00:37:55,142 --> 00:37:57,702 Speaker 1: if there was something more to his friendship with Diana 520 00:37:57,742 --> 00:38:02,222 Speaker 1: fetder No. I asked him why he changed his story 521 00:38:02,422 --> 00:38:04,902 Speaker 1: about the security camera footage on the ranch. 522 00:38:05,262 --> 00:38:10,022 Speaker 13: I was advised by the attorney that I was to 523 00:38:10,142 --> 00:38:14,142 Speaker 13: examine that, but I was not to say anything until 524 00:38:14,302 --> 00:38:17,182 Speaker 13: after the investigation was completed. 525 00:38:17,982 --> 00:38:21,102 Speaker 1: I asked him about leaving town so soon after deal 526 00:38:21,142 --> 00:38:21,782 Speaker 1: went missing. 527 00:38:22,062 --> 00:38:25,302 Speaker 3: I have told the multiple times why I leave to 528 00:38:25,422 --> 00:38:26,142 Speaker 3: pay a tax bill? 529 00:38:26,462 --> 00:38:27,982 Speaker 6: Was what was happening? 530 00:38:28,222 --> 00:38:33,262 Speaker 3: What was happening On the day that that investigation was 531 00:38:33,302 --> 00:38:35,142 Speaker 3: to happen, the. 532 00:38:35,142 --> 00:38:37,542 Speaker 1: Cops were going to show up and search the ranch. 533 00:38:38,862 --> 00:38:40,942 Speaker 3: They were going to come up and sew sarrants. They 534 00:38:40,982 --> 00:38:43,662 Speaker 3: had called and they said we will close the ranch 535 00:38:43,782 --> 00:38:47,702 Speaker 3: down when we arrived. Any vehicle that you have on 536 00:38:47,742 --> 00:38:51,822 Speaker 3: the property must be removed or we'll say what would 537 00:38:51,862 --> 00:38:52,222 Speaker 3: you do? 538 00:38:52,782 --> 00:38:55,022 Speaker 1: So, if you knew how this was going to play 539 00:38:55,062 --> 00:38:58,062 Speaker 1: out and you were going to be suspected, would you 540 00:38:58,102 --> 00:38:58,702 Speaker 1: have stayed? 541 00:39:01,822 --> 00:39:02,982 Speaker 6: I didn't suspect that. 542 00:39:03,182 --> 00:39:06,222 Speaker 3: I thought we were dealing with a missing person. 543 00:39:09,982 --> 00:39:14,062 Speaker 1: Harper has an answer for all of it and insists 544 00:39:14,342 --> 00:39:17,742 Speaker 1: everything I've been told is pure speculation. 545 00:39:17,942 --> 00:39:21,902 Speaker 3: Where the fat you'd think that facts would have come 546 00:39:21,942 --> 00:39:24,862 Speaker 3: in the play. Facts doesn't play anything. 547 00:39:24,982 --> 00:39:27,182 Speaker 6: It's strictly speculation. 548 00:39:27,862 --> 00:39:32,862 Speaker 3: And that's what drives me crazy, is people speculate and 549 00:39:32,942 --> 00:39:33,942 Speaker 3: it becomes fact. 550 00:39:35,622 --> 00:39:39,022 Speaker 1: And perhaps he has a point. As far as I know, 551 00:39:39,782 --> 00:39:44,622 Speaker 1: there is no hard evidence. So it seems like the 552 00:39:44,662 --> 00:39:47,422 Speaker 1: only way this thing is going to get resolved is 553 00:39:47,462 --> 00:39:48,582 Speaker 1: if her body is found. 554 00:39:50,662 --> 00:39:55,942 Speaker 3: Exactly. That's why we're moving in here to get that done. Okay, Well, 555 00:39:55,982 --> 00:39:59,062 Speaker 3: and if I would builty of her murder, would I 556 00:39:59,222 --> 00:40:01,942 Speaker 3: move ahead and try to find her body? And shall have? 557 00:40:01,982 --> 00:40:07,862 Speaker 3: I've been investigating that from the very beginning, Yes, I am. 558 00:40:08,062 --> 00:40:10,822 Speaker 1: Harper is pushing to go back to the spot where 559 00:40:10,822 --> 00:40:15,502 Speaker 1: the search dogs alerted this time to dig since, as 560 00:40:15,502 --> 00:40:20,102 Speaker 1: far as Harpeneau's the Riverside Sheriff's Department hasn't. 561 00:40:20,142 --> 00:40:23,342 Speaker 3: So they should be held accounnable for what they have 562 00:40:23,622 --> 00:40:26,982 Speaker 3: not done. Since this case should have been solved in 563 00:40:27,022 --> 00:40:29,182 Speaker 3: the first year and a half, it has gone on 564 00:40:29,302 --> 00:40:31,222 Speaker 3: for now four and that's a year. 565 00:40:32,702 --> 00:40:35,782 Speaker 1: His frustration with the police is palpable, and he's not 566 00:40:35,862 --> 00:40:41,022 Speaker 1: the only one either. The Riverside Sheriff's Department has made 567 00:40:41,022 --> 00:40:45,782 Speaker 1: some puzzling decisions throughout this case. I've heard this from 568 00:40:45,822 --> 00:40:49,982 Speaker 1: nearly everyone I've spoken with, like Julie for example. 569 00:40:50,382 --> 00:40:54,902 Speaker 14: And it's the police That's what made me angry is 570 00:40:54,942 --> 00:40:58,662 Speaker 14: they never wanted to interview any of us that were 571 00:40:58,662 --> 00:41:02,542 Speaker 14: closed up, so it seemed like they didn't follow through 572 00:41:02,582 --> 00:41:07,422 Speaker 14: it that dune in some aspects, and that was very maddening. 573 00:41:09,182 --> 00:41:13,182 Speaker 1: Carmen Ibanez, DEA's neighbor, who runs the Christian youth camp, 574 00:41:13,342 --> 00:41:17,822 Speaker 1: said something similar. She told me Detective Alberta Lorero, the 575 00:41:17,902 --> 00:41:23,422 Speaker 1: lead investigator on DEA's case, took three years three years 576 00:41:23,622 --> 00:41:25,342 Speaker 1: to interview her. 577 00:41:26,022 --> 00:41:28,742 Speaker 2: I mean, I've been talking more by more people like 578 00:41:28,822 --> 00:41:31,622 Speaker 2: you and other people than I have been talk to 579 00:41:31,702 --> 00:41:36,502 Speaker 2: by police, and you know, it's just it's kind of sad, 580 00:41:36,542 --> 00:41:38,822 Speaker 2: you know, I try to be nice. But the rest 581 00:41:38,822 --> 00:41:42,702 Speaker 2: of my staff say, is police incompetence because why wouldn't 582 00:41:42,742 --> 00:41:44,822 Speaker 2: you Why wouldn't you just talk to the neighbor. Isn't 583 00:41:44,822 --> 00:41:47,222 Speaker 2: that the first people you want to talk to. You 584 00:41:47,262 --> 00:41:50,782 Speaker 2: would think that they'd be more more effort put into it. 585 00:41:52,302 --> 00:41:56,142 Speaker 1: I've also been frustrated by the Riverside County Sheriff's Department. 586 00:41:57,142 --> 00:42:00,422 Speaker 1: I've tried desperately to find out what leads, if any, 587 00:42:00,702 --> 00:42:05,302 Speaker 1: they have, but they've declined to confirm any information about 588 00:42:05,342 --> 00:42:11,382 Speaker 1: the investigation. So I'm left with a bunch of what ifs. 589 00:42:11,742 --> 00:42:14,862 Speaker 1: What if the cops had shown up sooner, would we 590 00:42:14,942 --> 00:42:17,782 Speaker 1: know what lay beneath the dirt the deer's dog, Ruby 591 00:42:17,902 --> 00:42:20,942 Speaker 1: laid down on and wouldn't budge from what was in 592 00:42:20,982 --> 00:42:24,742 Speaker 1: Harper's r V that Diana says was searched. Was the 593 00:42:24,742 --> 00:42:28,662 Speaker 1: meadow really overgrown? And if it was, where does that 594 00:42:28,742 --> 00:42:32,222 Speaker 1: leave Harper and his alibi? What if he'd never been 595 00:42:32,262 --> 00:42:36,502 Speaker 1: allowed to leave the ranch? It's strange. Carmen told me 596 00:42:37,342 --> 00:42:41,742 Speaker 1: that despite the close knit nature of Idlewild, this small 597 00:42:41,822 --> 00:42:45,702 Speaker 1: town whose mayor is a Golden retriever, there are still 598 00:42:45,982 --> 00:42:48,342 Speaker 1: no answers about what happened. 599 00:42:49,022 --> 00:42:52,382 Speaker 2: Everybody hears everything, so that's the thing that's the word 600 00:42:52,462 --> 00:42:55,222 Speaker 2: spreads really quickly. Even though that people pretend like they 601 00:42:55,222 --> 00:42:57,262 Speaker 2: don't know anything. Everybody knows about everybody. 602 00:42:57,382 --> 00:43:01,502 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it kind of makes it even more strange 603 00:43:01,582 --> 00:43:03,582 Speaker 1: that nobody seems to know what happened. 604 00:43:04,582 --> 00:43:05,062 Speaker 6: Exactly. 605 00:43:05,182 --> 00:43:11,702 Speaker 2: I mean, it's very frustrating, I just for the sake. 606 00:43:11,742 --> 00:43:13,582 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't care what she's done in her life. 607 00:43:13,622 --> 00:43:14,942 Speaker 2: I don't think anybody deserves that. 608 00:43:17,142 --> 00:43:19,902 Speaker 1: I've been wondering how I can wrap up this story 609 00:43:20,222 --> 00:43:24,262 Speaker 1: after four years of reporting, when I know I'll always 610 00:43:24,302 --> 00:43:27,182 Speaker 1: have a few niggling questions at the back of my mind. 611 00:43:28,582 --> 00:43:31,822 Speaker 1: That's the problem. When you report a story about someone 612 00:43:31,862 --> 00:43:35,902 Speaker 1: who's not here to tell their version, You're left with 613 00:43:35,942 --> 00:43:39,622 Speaker 1: that vacuum. You're left trying to appear at a blurry 614 00:43:39,702 --> 00:43:48,902 Speaker 1: picture that will never quite come into focus. There is 615 00:43:49,062 --> 00:43:53,102 Speaker 1: one final loose end on my mind. The other coordinate 616 00:43:53,182 --> 00:43:56,662 Speaker 1: the psychics came up with way way back in Kelly 617 00:43:56,702 --> 00:44:00,382 Speaker 1: Snyder's original report, the one in the middle of nowhere 618 00:44:00,502 --> 00:44:08,702 Speaker 1: in Arizona, because I mapped it out and I cross 619 00:44:08,742 --> 00:44:12,022 Speaker 1: reference it with the report from Clinton's PI, the part 620 00:44:12,022 --> 00:44:14,982 Speaker 1: where he mapped out the route Harper took according to 621 00:44:14,982 --> 00:44:18,302 Speaker 1: the cell phone towers that Harper's phone pinged. And if 622 00:44:18,342 --> 00:44:21,462 Speaker 1: I take that PI report in good faith and I'm 623 00:44:21,502 --> 00:44:24,542 Speaker 1: buying into the whole psychics thing, then Harper was in 624 00:44:24,582 --> 00:44:28,062 Speaker 1: the same region as a psychics coordinate when he left 625 00:44:28,102 --> 00:44:31,382 Speaker 1: Dear's Ranch on that Monday morning and drove all the 626 00:44:31,382 --> 00:44:40,182 Speaker 1: way to New Mexico in his RV. I asked Kelly Snyder, 627 00:44:40,422 --> 00:44:42,702 Speaker 1: and he can't remember why they haven't searched the area, 628 00:44:43,302 --> 00:44:47,622 Speaker 1: especially because his helicopter, search dogs, dive team, his entire 629 00:44:47,662 --> 00:44:51,542 Speaker 1: search crew are based in Arizona. I try and persuade 630 00:44:51,582 --> 00:44:53,622 Speaker 1: him to send a team out as long as I 631 00:44:53,622 --> 00:44:59,662 Speaker 1: can tag along. Of course, so as much as I'd 632 00:44:59,702 --> 00:45:02,822 Speaker 1: like to think I can just walk away, I'll be 633 00:45:02,902 --> 00:45:05,662 Speaker 1: keeping in touch with Kelly just in case he ever 634 00:45:05,742 --> 00:45:11,462 Speaker 1: does decide to search that Arizona location. And when June sixth, 635 00:45:11,542 --> 00:45:14,902 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five comes around, I'll be giving Harper and 636 00:45:14,902 --> 00:45:48,622 Speaker 1: Clinton a call, just in case. Where's Dear is written 637 00:45:48,742 --> 00:45:54,062 Speaker 1: and hosted by me Lucy Sheriff. Our producer is Daphne Chen, 638 00:45:54,982 --> 00:46:00,782 Speaker 1: editing by Karen Schakerji production assistance from Joey Fish, ground 639 00:46:01,622 --> 00:46:07,342 Speaker 1: fact checking by Lauren Vespoli. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. 640 00:46:08,342 --> 00:46:14,702 Speaker 1: Original School sound design and mastering by Echo Shawes. Special 641 00:46:14,702 --> 00:46:20,902 Speaker 1: thanks to Sophie Crane, Amy Gains McQuaid, Nina Lawrence, Kira Posey, 642 00:46:21,222 --> 00:46:26,862 Speaker 1: Jordan McMillan, Owen Miller, Jake Flanagan, Sean Carney, Carrie Brody, 643 00:46:27,502 --> 00:46:33,342 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Christina Sullivan, Sarah Nix, and Greta Cone. Additional 644 00:46:33,382 --> 00:46:37,462 Speaker 1: thanks to my partner Maurice and my agent, Joy Folks 645 00:46:37,862 --> 00:46:41,902 Speaker 1: at the Gernert Company. To read more about DEA's case, 646 00:46:42,502 --> 00:46:48,142 Speaker 1: check out David Godfridson's reporting at CBS eight. Where's Dea 647 00:46:48,302 --> 00:46:52,742 Speaker 1: is a co production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. I'm 648 00:46:52,822 --> 00:47:51,502 Speaker 1: Lucy Sheriff. Where's Dea was originally developed with Truly*Adventurous.