Speaker 1: And the way I look at it is is like
Speaker 1: almost like a download from God, like somebody's connected to
Speaker 1: something that is just beyond any normal level of performance,
Speaker 1: and almost like in this flow state, there is certain
Speaker 1: people who live in almost a constant flow state of creativity.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Psychology Podcast. Today we welcome Troy Carter
Speaker 2: to the show. Troy is the co founder and CEO
Speaker 2: of Venice Music, a technology and media company focused on
Speaker 2: powering the business of music via distribution services and data analytics. Formerly,
Speaker 2: Troy was the founder and CEO of Adam Factory, where
Speaker 2: he rose to prominence nurturing the careers of global superstars,
Speaker 2: including Lady Gaga and John Legend. He most recently served
Speaker 2: at Spotify as its global Head of Creator Services, overseeing
Speaker 2: the company's growth strategy for artists and record labels. In
Speaker 2: this episode, I talked to Troy Carter about spotting creative potential.
Speaker 2: Working in the entertainment industry has given Troy an eye
Speaker 2: for talent, but that's not all it takes to become successful.
Speaker 2: Hard Work, determination, and letting your personality shine through are
Speaker 2: also key components. Troy and I talk about musical geniuses
Speaker 2: and the future of the music industry with the advent
Speaker 2: of sophisticated AI tools. It was really great chatting with Troy.
Speaker 2: He's like my brother from another mother. I just adore
Speaker 2: Troy and think he's done such legendary work for the
Speaker 2: music industry, and he's just so humble and just so cool.
Speaker 2: It was also really cool talking about mutual connections with
Speaker 2: high school. Turns out he went to the same high
Speaker 2: school that my grandmother was the vice principal of in
Speaker 2: West Philly high She wasn't vice principal at the time,
Speaker 2: but he went to that high school. So we both
Speaker 2: come from Philadelphia, and it was just great to just
Speaker 2: connect with him and riff on how to spot creative potential.
Speaker 2: So I know you'll really enjoy this episode. So without
Speaker 2: further ado, I bring you Troy Carter. Troy Carter, Welcome
Speaker 2: to the Psychology Podcast, Doctor Scott.
Speaker 3: How are you.
Speaker 2: I'm good Man good. I'm looking forward to doing like
Speaker 2: a podcast improv jam today with you on creativity.
Speaker 3: Is a complete freestyle session.
Speaker 1: I completely said that doesn't matter what we talk about,
Speaker 1: wherever you want to go going.
Speaker 2: That's true. We have literally no agenda, nothing in the
Speaker 2: to do list. But I am fascinated with your the
Speaker 2: whole arc of your journey. And you know, we both
Speaker 2: grew up in Philly. You grew up in probably some
Speaker 2: would say proper Philly was the main line, main line
Speaker 2: of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: That's what we call it.
Speaker 1: Yes, proper, proper, proper Philly.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know my grandma and grandparents that grew
Speaker 2: up in proper Philly. My grandma was a vice principal
Speaker 2: of wes Philly High and you went to West Philly High.
Speaker 3: I went to West Philly High.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she. I think she was before your time.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, you grew up just in such
Speaker 2: an amazing era of creativity and flourishing within the hip
Speaker 2: hop community. Within I mean, I I love hip hop.
Speaker 2: So I'm just well, I'm enjoined to nerd out with
Speaker 2: you today about hip hop, not psychology. We'll get to
Speaker 2: some psychology, but can you there's almost what do you
Speaker 2: describe as like almost a renaissance there in Philly during
Speaker 2: that time period. Take us, can you take us back
Speaker 2: to that your middle school days.
Speaker 1: Let's say, yeah, it absolutely was a was a renaissance.
Speaker 1: You know, I got lucky to be born when I
Speaker 1: was born and where I was born because like coming
Speaker 1: up in like the early eighties and Philly hip hop
Speaker 1: was like really at as golden age. So you figure
Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty seven, nineteen eighty eight, you think about
Speaker 1: the clothes, you know, the Dapper Dan through, the Gucci sweatsuits,
Speaker 1: the big name belts with your name on it, you know,
Speaker 1: the Khazell glasses, everything that you saw on RNDIMC music
Speaker 1: videos with that didas when no shoestrings, graffiti was you know,
Speaker 1: becoming you know, an artistic medium and djaying, So you
Speaker 1: had all of these things sort of happening that one time.
Speaker 1: It was this generational shift from sort of the music
Speaker 1: that my parents and my aunts and uncles grew up
Speaker 1: to to this sort of generation of music that we
Speaker 1: called our own. And so it definitely was a renaissance
Speaker 1: on every block in a neighborhood.
Speaker 3: By the way, I would.
Speaker 2: Give to have been a part of that. Wow, you
Speaker 2: met you knew DJJZ Jeff right, yes, yeah, and you
Speaker 2: knew Will Smith and you knew Boys to Men right
Speaker 2: right when they were starting. That must have been around
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight, that feels I feel like that's around
Speaker 2: their first record, right, Yeah, we used.
Speaker 1: To You know, we had a rep group me and
Speaker 1: my two best friends called to Too Many. You know,
Speaker 1: we met in high school ninth grade and it was
Speaker 1: three of us, and you know, we called ourselves too
Speaker 1: too many because it was only enough money for one
Speaker 1: of us at any given.
Speaker 3: Time, so it was always too too many.
Speaker 1: And but we used to do these local little talent
Speaker 1: shows and Boys to Men was part of that sort
Speaker 1: of talent show circuit, and they went to the Creative
Speaker 1: and the High School of Creative and Performing Arts. It
Speaker 1: was a band called Square Roots that was part of
Speaker 1: that circuit that later changed their name to the Roots.
Speaker 1: And of course we know what happened, you know with
Speaker 1: those guys. It was a local rapper who was a
Speaker 1: friend of ours who also worked at a clothing store
Speaker 1: called City Blue in Philly, and you know, she moved
Speaker 1: to Atlanta. We didn't hear back from her, and we
Speaker 1: turned on TV one day and he has this condom
Speaker 1: over one eye and it's Lisa from TLC.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it.
Speaker 3: Was left eye. So you know, that's that's the sort
Speaker 3: of creative community.
Speaker 1: You know, Philly's so small, such a small like as
Speaker 1: a big small town, and you know, so we all
Speaker 1: knew each other, and it was beautiful just to see,
Speaker 1: like early in my childhood, these thoughts of endless possibility,
Speaker 1: because no one really experienced.
Speaker 3: Failure, you know, at that point in their lives.
Speaker 1: Yet, so like, you know, seeing your friends and peers
Speaker 1: become you know, break Elvis Presley's records on the charts.
Speaker 3: Or become the biggest.
Speaker 1: Girl group of all time, and watching well, you know,
Speaker 1: go from a local rapper to you know, movie star.
Speaker 3: It just was you just thought anything was possible.
Speaker 2: Were the seeds of your legendary talent management clearly evident
Speaker 2: around that time? Like do you feel like you had
Speaker 2: like a keen eye even as a kid, like to
Speaker 2: spot talent and spot potential?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, my I think my talent back then
Speaker 1: that sort of carried over wasn't necessarily the spot talent
Speaker 1: at that point, it was protecting my friends, you know.
Speaker 1: So with my group, I ended up being like the
Speaker 1: default manager because I wanted to read the contracts and
Speaker 1: sort of understand the business of it. And so I
Speaker 1: always was like the one who would organize everything, and
Speaker 1: so I wasn't the most creative person, but I was
Speaker 1: really good at organizing, and so being around creative people
Speaker 1: led to.
Speaker 3: Sort of creative organization. But I really it wasn't.
Speaker 1: About spot and talent as back then as much as
Speaker 1: it was how can I organize this chaos? And and
Speaker 1: and I think the other thing that carried over from
Speaker 1: that period of time. I've always been good with managing crisis,
Speaker 1: you know. And and I think from you know, having
Speaker 1: to live through trauma and struggles and things like that,
Speaker 1: I always tried to be this sort of calm in
Speaker 1: the midst of the storm.
Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the number one qualities.
Speaker 1: But like a good manager is somebody who can you know,
Speaker 1: really be be that calm voice and that that and
Speaker 1: that people feel like they could depend on when when
Speaker 1: things hit the fame.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, not you know, not just in the music field,
Speaker 2: but I feel like you're good to have around in
Speaker 2: any context. It's not just musicians that need that. Psychologists
Speaker 2: need that too. Brother. So you were you were signed
Speaker 2: to will Jam Records. People might not have heard Jam Records. Dude,
Speaker 2: I'm a real I'm a real nerd. I'm a real
Speaker 2: nerd about hip hop, especially the early days.
Speaker 1: Only person in the world who knows that I love
Speaker 1: that and you didn't even tell me that, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: I believe Will Smith and James Aster were part of
Speaker 1: that record label.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, well well Jam Well and James.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well there you go. So, I mean, how
Speaker 2: many people could have possibly been signed by Will Jam Records?
Speaker 2: I mean you must have been such a small group
Speaker 2: of up and coming hip hop artists.
Speaker 3: Right, it was grand opening, grand closing, It.
Speaker 2: Was right right, right right?
Speaker 1: We were the first and only act that was signed
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 3: Was just yeah, yeah, it was just.
Speaker 1: The record probably felt we probably bankrupted the company to
Speaker 1: record this.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so great. But if I remember correctly, did
Speaker 2: you do? You ended up working with James Lost later
Speaker 2: on in your career, is that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, James is still a good friend and mentor,
Speaker 1: and you know I had dinner with them last week.
Speaker 1: You know, so it's been you know, over over almost
Speaker 1: thirty three years. You know, he's been in my life.
Speaker 1: But he was a guy who was the most mature
Speaker 1: guy in the in the neighborhood. Sort of got the job,
Speaker 1: you know, being Jazzy Jeffery Fresh Prince's manager, you know,
Speaker 1: because he was the only guy with a car and
Speaker 1: a fax machine and so James has always been like
Speaker 1: the buttoned up guy. But he he just saw some
Speaker 1: potential in me. And even when I was really rough
Speaker 1: around on the edges, and he gave me these opportunities,
Speaker 1: and even when I screwed the opportunities up, you know,
Speaker 1: he gave me second chances and third chances and fourth
Speaker 1: chances and help me see the potential in myself.
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's beautiful. And I assume you carried that forward,
Speaker 2: and you know you now have you have such a
Speaker 2: good eye for spotting potential in artists. I am so
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Speaker 2: you say that, what would you say is actually your
Speaker 2: your superpower within what you do. I don't want to
Speaker 2: tell you what it is. I want you to tell
Speaker 2: you what do you think it really is?
Speaker 1: It really is about potential and really being able to
Speaker 1: see something within people and willing to take that chance.
Speaker 3: I'm really drawn to underdogs, don't me too? Yeah? I
Speaker 3: love underdogs. You know.
Speaker 1: So most of the artists, if not pretty much almost
Speaker 1: all the artists that I've ever worked with, were either
Speaker 1: starting from the very beginning of their careers before anybody
Speaker 1: knew who they were, or they were at some sort
Speaker 1: of midlife critical point in their career trying to figure
Speaker 1: it out. And so being able to sort of see
Speaker 1: the potential and dive in and do the work and
Speaker 1: not let the not let the end results scared the
Speaker 1: shit out out of me.
Speaker 2: You worked with the notorious Big Yes, And I'm a
Speaker 2: huge Biggie fan. So what was he like? Is you know,
Speaker 2: behind the scenes, Like, did you like actually like party
Speaker 2: with him?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I was so Biggie was funny with Biggie, I was
Speaker 1: I was promoting shows in Philly and like little neighborhood
Speaker 1: shows at like places to help you know, two three
Speaker 1: hundred people. And when he put out his first music,
Speaker 1: I tried to book him for a show and he
Speaker 1: was ended up being a no show because he was
Speaker 1: shooting the Big POPA video in New York. And but
Speaker 1: we ended up after that doing like two or three
Speaker 1: more shows.
Speaker 3: With him and Junior Mafia.
Speaker 1: I got the no Puff Puff gave me an internship
Speaker 1: and it was like being able to see this guy's
Speaker 1: creative process. But also he was this guy who was
Speaker 1: incredibly quiet, incredibly charming, incredibly funny as well, and whose
Speaker 1: life was just cut way too short before we saw,
Speaker 1: you know, the best of what he had to offer
Speaker 1: to the world.
Speaker 3: You know, because when we look at jay.
Speaker 1: Z now, you know, we got a chance to see
Speaker 1: jay Z go through you know, the roughest periods, you know,
Speaker 1: so the coming out of Marshie projects super rough around
Speaker 1: the edges, you know, misogynistic, you know, all of the
Speaker 1: things that people would say to seeing this guy become
Speaker 1: you know, a leader, activist, father, business titan, you know.
Speaker 1: And the same thing with Diddy, same thing with Doctor Dre.
Speaker 1: You know, we got to see these guys through their
Speaker 1: full potential and with Biggie, you know, I think we
Speaker 1: would have seen it. We would have seen the same thing,
Speaker 1: and it's just too bad it was cut short.
Speaker 2: I assume you were absolutely gutted when you heard about
Speaker 2: the news. Do you remember where you were when you
Speaker 2: heard about the news.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: I was at my house on Dewey Street in Philadelphia, Wow,
Speaker 1: with my I think my son was one and a
Speaker 1: half years in the room with him and my girlfriend
Speaker 1: at the time.
Speaker 3: My son's mother walked in the room and told me
Speaker 3: what happened. It is still.
Speaker 1: Unbelievable because and you know, because nowadays you hear about
Speaker 1: rappers getting killed once a month, but you never heard
Speaker 1: about celebrities getting killed back then. It's like you might
Speaker 1: have heard like overdoses or like, you know, Jimmy Hendrick
Speaker 1: getting you know, Jimmy Hendricks overdosing. You know, like you
Speaker 1: heard things like, you know, these sort of stories like that,
Speaker 1: But for celebrity to be murdered, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: cold blood, it just was not normal. And you know,
Speaker 1: so it's still to even to this day, it's still
Speaker 1: still kind of haunts me that that could happen.
Speaker 2: Do you know who killed him?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: And I don't want to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't want to know either.
Speaker 1: You know what it's like because those days, I remember
Speaker 1: I was working for for Diddy when Supac got shot
Speaker 1: in New York. This isn't when he got killed in Vegas,
Speaker 1: when he first got shot in New York.
Speaker 3: And I remember, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Was an intern, so I would have to answer the phones,
Speaker 1: and I remember like the death threats like bad Boy Records, Man,
Speaker 1: I help you. Oh yeah, I'm going to kill everybody
Speaker 1: in the building. Okay, I'll take I'll take the message.
Speaker 3: Thank you for calling.
Speaker 1: But you know, the security everywhere, and you know, it
Speaker 1: just was a rough time in hip hop where it
Speaker 1: was a dark time in hip hop. You know, you
Speaker 1: just never want to go back to it.
Speaker 3: But the streets were so closely aligned.
Speaker 1: With the music back then, and you know, so you know,
Speaker 1: to come out of that period, you know, for myself,
Speaker 1: coming out of that period, it's just not something I
Speaker 1: ever want to go back to.
Speaker 2: Oh I hear you. I totally hear you. So zooming
Speaker 2: in on the creativity of these individuals though during that period,
Speaker 2: I mean, there was this real special kind of creativity.
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering how much do you think like the
Speaker 2: East coast West Coast sort of came petition upped the
Speaker 2: creativity or was it Do you think it was just completelynnecessary?
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, it up the creativity, Like you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's the that's the beauty about hip hop. It's
Speaker 1: almost like the WWE. You know, outside of the corner
Speaker 1: cases of violent beefs, it's always been this battle rap.
Speaker 3: You know, that's that's just the culture rap.
Speaker 1: And so with battle rap, it's all about the bravado.
Speaker 1: You're better than this other person, and so you put
Speaker 1: so much into your craft that whatever record that you're
Speaker 1: making has to be better than that last record that
Speaker 1: your rival made. And so it's this ongoing rivalry and
Speaker 1: music that keeps up in the level of music.
Speaker 3: I think we really never saw that in music before.
Speaker 1: Like you know where like hip hop is almost like
Speaker 1: a competitive sport, Like you know, where is one year
Speaker 1: where Ye West won the championship, then Drake comes along
Speaker 1: and wins the championship. Way want a championship. Jay Z
Speaker 1: won a championship, Cardi B won a championship. So it's
Speaker 1: like every year you want to see, like who's going
Speaker 1: to own this summer.
Speaker 2: Next up, watch out Doctor.
Speaker 3: Scott, Doctor Scott. Forget next to to dre.
Speaker 2: So for doctor Scott. Next year, next year, watch out,
Speaker 2: watch out.
Speaker 1: We should do a versus with doctor dre versus doctor Scott.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm obsessed with this notion of the X factor.
Speaker 2: You know, there's this kind of assumption that you either
Speaker 2: have the X factor or you don't have the X factor.
Speaker 2: You know, you have come across so many people. Have
Speaker 2: you come across situations where you didn't think someone really
Speaker 2: had the X factor when you first met them, but
Speaker 2: they worked their ass off and they kind of developed
Speaker 2: something really special. Or do you really kind of believe
Speaker 2: this this myth so to speak, that you're either born
Speaker 2: with it or you're not.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't believe you're born I don't believe
Speaker 3: you're born with it or not.
Speaker 1: Like you know, I think some certain things, you know,
Speaker 1: come with some level of God given ability.
Speaker 3: But music, I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 1: Like this as an example, you know, like Lady Gaga,
Speaker 1: she was a piano singer and she got signed to
Speaker 1: def Jam, and def Jam dropped her from the label
Speaker 1: within less than a year because the CEO of the
Speaker 1: label didn't get her, and after she got dropped, she
Speaker 1: met a friend of mine, Vincent Herbert, who and Vince
Speaker 1: introduced her, you know, he introduced the two of us,
Speaker 1: but Vince helped her develop into who she eventually became.
Speaker 1: Introduced her to Lori Anne Gibson, who was one of
Speaker 1: the best choreographers in the world. And Gaga wasn't a dancer,
Speaker 1: and she worked every single day hours to learn how
Speaker 1: to dance. She watched so much tape of David Bowie
Speaker 1: interviews and Madonna concerts and like all all Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: print she was studied a great even down to songwriting.
Speaker 3: She studied pop songwriting.
Speaker 1: So it was a lot of work that went into
Speaker 1: what she was able to create. And so she just
Speaker 1: didn't wake up one day and was born Lady Gagash.
Speaker 1: She was born Stephanie Germanada, and developed into that through
Speaker 1: the work as nobody what a harder work ethic.
Speaker 2: Something's really interesting about that, though, is that, yes, like
Speaker 2: she developed into the person she wanted to be, or
Speaker 2: that the person she saw in her mind to be.
Speaker 2: And that's what's interesting about this. And you see this
Speaker 2: a lot with all the legends you know, is this
Speaker 2: sort of like vision that are falling in love with
Speaker 2: an image of the future. That is to connect it
Speaker 2: to psychological research. That's Epaul Torrence's famous creativity study found
Speaker 2: the elementary school kids that grew up to be the
Speaker 2: most creative for those who fall in love with the
Speaker 2: future image of themselves.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. So so just focusing on the lady Gaga
Speaker 2: because you really, you know, a lot of ways you
Speaker 2: discovered her. You believed in her, you know, you believed
Speaker 2: in her potential. You told me something once that you know,
Speaker 2: even before she was famous, she would walk around like
Speaker 2: she was famous. Yes, that's that's that's clear that she
Speaker 2: had a vision of who she who she was meant
Speaker 2: to be.
Speaker 1: We called the delusion and because you know, you have
Speaker 1: to be semi delusional, you got to have a healthy
Speaker 1: percentage of delusion to really truly believe. You know, you're
Speaker 1: going to become the biggest star in the world, and
Speaker 1: nobody just sees it yet, and your team has to
Speaker 1: buy into it as well. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: we have the scared delusion of what the future is
Speaker 1: going to look like.
Speaker 3: And of course you have to your delusional if.
Speaker 1: You don't work towards it, or you don't write the
Speaker 1: right music or you know, you know, so it's work.
Speaker 1: You got to put into it, into it every day,
Speaker 1: but you have to be so clear.
Speaker 3: And being able to see the vision.
Speaker 1: And you know, it was and it sounds super corny,
Speaker 1: but one of the things that you know, she and
Speaker 1: I bonded over was I was seeing that that remember
Speaker 1: the movie.
Speaker 2: The Secret, Yeah, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1: And because since a kid, you know, since ninth grade,
Speaker 1: we always me and my best friends had this thing
Speaker 1: about how thoughts become things. And I used to write
Speaker 1: down everything, like everything that I wanted to accomplish, you know,
Speaker 1: probably since I was like nine or ten years old.
Speaker 3: I used to write everything down. And it's crazy.
Speaker 1: My mom saved like my old scrap books and notes,
Speaker 1: and it's is it like blew me away to go
Speaker 1: back and see some of some of the things.
Speaker 3: And so that was a scared thing like for the two.
Speaker 1: Of us to have was that we knew, we know
Speaker 1: how you can uh envision something and through execution and real,
Speaker 1: real focus.
Speaker 3: You can make it happen.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you some craziness, but like you know,
Speaker 1: even how she came about into my life like just through.
Speaker 1: You know, I had gone through a really terrible time
Speaker 1: in my life where I pretty much had lost everything,
Speaker 1: and I started just meditating and doing a lot of
Speaker 1: inner work, and I started putting together sort of vision
Speaker 1: boards of what my future wanted, what I wanted my
Speaker 1: future to be, and I put up these pictures of
Speaker 1: like Beyonce justin Timberlake, like all of these big pop stars,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I want to be in a pop
Speaker 1: star business. So this is something I started working towards
Speaker 1: and like going down this deep rabbit hole and then
Speaker 1: you know, here she comes popping up in my life.
Speaker 1: So it's almost like the preparation. So it was waiting
Speaker 1: for the opportunity.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's something really that I really fully understand scientifically
Speaker 2: about this, But I've noticed that as well, because I
Speaker 2: can't say the secret is completely scientifically accurate in the
Speaker 2: sense that if you don't do any thing, you know,
Speaker 2: you just vision something, it's manifested automatically. That there's no
Speaker 2: real good science suggesting that's true. That's almost like that's magic.
Speaker 2: That's like, uh, hey Genie, Hey, Genie, I have three
Speaker 2: wishes I'm gonna make you know. But being able to
Speaker 2: There is something really true about when you have a
Speaker 2: certain vision and you believe in it so much, the
Speaker 2: universe kind of starts to come together, you know, to
Speaker 2: make it happen in some way that just is beyond
Speaker 2: my comprehension.
Speaker 1: I just I wish it was something that was taught
Speaker 1: in school and that kids like that every kid knew
Speaker 1: that that that this existed, because like I got lucky
Speaker 1: because I was I was this kid with this crazy
Speaker 1: imagination and just sort of make up these wild, crazy stories.
Speaker 1: And you know, like I always had this wild imagination
Speaker 1: so must around means never dictated like in.
Speaker 3: My mind what my future was going to be like.
Speaker 1: So so it was weird, like I was sort of
Speaker 1: locked within my own imagination and so I got lucky
Speaker 1: with it to sort of stumble upon it. But I
Speaker 1: just wish it was something that that just was sort
Speaker 1: of an in basic everyday learning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. You said something in one of your
Speaker 2: interviews that I yes this, yes this, and you said
Speaker 2: you said the following, be willing to bet on yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so much stems from that one sentence so much, right, Like,
Speaker 2: there is something to the idea that you create your
Speaker 2: own reality for good or bad, you know, And a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't want to hear that because I
Speaker 2: think like a lot of people want to outsource their
Speaker 2: happiness to that group or that group or that group,
Speaker 2: you know, like anyone but myself. But you know, kind
Speaker 2: of that kind of response ability is well, it's scary.
Speaker 2: It's scary because.
Speaker 1: Scary, it's so much easier to think that God is
Speaker 1: going to decide every single decision for you, and yet
Speaker 1: and it's not on you, it's it's it's it's it's
Speaker 1: so much easier to sort of default to that. So
Speaker 1: I understand, you know why religion is super is super important.
Speaker 1: But when you realize that, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: this responsibility for your life falls in your own lap
Speaker 1: and that you know, the sort of decisions that you
Speaker 1: make today dictates what happens you know, tomorrow, essentially, you know,
Speaker 1: it requires a lot of discipline, a lot of inner
Speaker 1: work and constant iteration and learning, and so that's hard.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So so for me, you know, I came to this
Speaker 1: conclusion that life is really short, man, life is really short,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people and like you know, super
Speaker 1: personal story. You know, my mom, she passed away almost
Speaker 1: ten years ago, and she was young, she was sixty
Speaker 1: three years old, and her dream was to go to
Speaker 1: Alaska and.
Speaker 3: She never got to go.
Speaker 1: And you think about how much stuff we defer in
Speaker 1: our lives, you know, because we think tomorrow is going
Speaker 1: to be here. But those aren't guarantees. So in my mind,
Speaker 1: the way I look at it is, I gotta figure out,
Speaker 1: like I gotta, I want to live the life that
Speaker 1: I want to live. I want to wake up doing
Speaker 1: what I want to do every single day, and which
Speaker 1: which I do. And you know, meaning it's everybody works
Speaker 1: for somebody. I work for my customers and you know,
Speaker 1: and my employees and family, but you know, but ultimately
Speaker 1: it's something that I truly enjoy. I just figured that,
Speaker 1: you know, what if at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: worst case scenario, if if, if it doesn't work out,
Speaker 1: I'll have a nice place to live in West Philly
Speaker 1: at my grandmother's house.
Speaker 3: In the meantime, I'm I'm a bet. I'm a bet
Speaker 3: on myself all day.
Speaker 2: Oh I love that that on yourself. Yeah, So what
Speaker 2: let's talk with some of their characteristics You've noticed among
Speaker 2: people that would approach genius status. I mean are there
Speaker 2: are there that many people you think you've encountered in
Speaker 2: your career you would actually put at the genius level?
Speaker 1: Yes, like there's is a ham, it's a handful that
Speaker 1: I would put at genius level creativity, Quincy Jones.
Speaker 2: You remember when I was at your dinner party, I
Speaker 2: would just like mention people like, is this personal genius?
Speaker 2: We played it, we played a little is this person
Speaker 2: a genius?
Speaker 3: Game?
Speaker 2: Do you remember that? I was like, I was like,
Speaker 2: is this person a genius? Is that person of genius?
Speaker 2: And uh? And you God bless you for going with it.
Speaker 2: But I won't do that today. I won't do that today. Okay, continue,
Speaker 2: but I won't. I won't. I won't do that today,
Speaker 2: I promise.
Speaker 1: Okay, some people are genius that some people are lucky, right,
Speaker 1: Quincy Jones is an absolute musical genius.
Speaker 3: Like, no, no, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: I think John Mayer is a genius at savant at guitar.
Speaker 1: And the way I look at it is it's like
Speaker 1: almost like a download from God, Like somebody's connecting to
Speaker 1: something that is just beyond any normal level of performance
Speaker 1: and almost like in this flow state. And when you
Speaker 1: see people who it's certain people who live in almost
Speaker 1: a constant flow state of creativity and they're able to
Speaker 1: go in and out of it. You know, certain people
Speaker 1: will see will be project based and it's like they'll
Speaker 1: make a really great album and then you never hear
Speaker 1: anything great from that person again, essentially because they were
Speaker 1: in that genius state at that particular time.
Speaker 3: And then there's certain people.
Speaker 1: Who who's consistently gone back to that to that state.
Speaker 1: Quincy Jones, by far, in my life, has been one
Speaker 1: one person who's just has been consistent. I think in
Speaker 1: hip hop, doctor Dre hands Down is just a genius
Speaker 1: music like music producer.
Speaker 3: I think I'll leave it.
Speaker 1: I'll leave it there when we talk about sort of
Speaker 1: like levels of consistent over generations, you know, so like
Speaker 1: we're talking over decade over decade, over decade. And so
Speaker 1: I think a lot of talent that I work with,
Speaker 1: I think they have a lot of genius possibility, and
Speaker 1: I think a lot of genius potential, and but the
Speaker 1: body of work is so young that we haven't been
Speaker 1: able to see it and all within that category of
Speaker 1: of what I can call a Quincy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, hey, that's totally fair.
Speaker 3: Prince was a genius through by the.
Speaker 2: Way, Oh yes, yes, I won't ask you to confirmer
Speaker 2: deny this, but I think Michael Jackson was a genius.
Speaker 1: Absolutely one Michael Jackson was was a genius.
Speaker 2: And glad we're a great on that. It seems like
Speaker 2: the thing that is so special about him is something
Speaker 2: similar that is so special about like Michael Jordan, and
Speaker 2: it is It does get down to this flow sort
Speaker 2: of idea. Something seemed so effortless, something seemed so god given.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, what's funny. I think geniuses are so
Speaker 1: good at what they do they make it look effortless
Speaker 1: because when you think about like a friend of mine
Speaker 1: told me a story, you know this is I think
Speaker 1: this was Kobe Bryant's second year in the league, and
Speaker 1: he was working on a music project in New York,
Speaker 1: and he was staying with a friend of mine, and
Speaker 1: he was telling me how every morning Kobe would get
Speaker 1: up and go out to the basketball court with his trainer,
Speaker 1: and the trainer would put his hand in Kobe's space
Speaker 1: and Kobe would take these blind jump shots, and what
Speaker 1: he would do he knew it was somebody that was
Speaker 1: going to be defending him this upcoming season. And he
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to make this shot pretty much
Speaker 1: with his eyes closed, and he practiced this shot constantly, constantly, constantly.
Speaker 3: So when you think.
Speaker 1: About the level amount of hours that like a Kobe
Speaker 1: Bryant spins in a gym, and the amount he studies
Speaker 1: other basketball players and historically and currently and how much
Speaker 1: he knows about the game when he steps on that floor,
Speaker 1: he's way, way, way more advanced than everybody else because
Speaker 1: of the effort that he put into it off the
Speaker 1: court makes it feel like it's effortless on the court.
Speaker 1: And so, like, you know, I think that's a lot
Speaker 1: of what I see just across the multiple spaces that
Speaker 1: I work in, the sort of the amount of behind
Speaker 1: the scene work that goes in and that go and
Speaker 1: that runs super super deep. From a domain expertise standpoint,
Speaker 1: that makes it seem super easy. Uh, you know, when
Speaker 1: when when when when?
Speaker 3: When? When? When people see them do it?
Speaker 2: Sure, I would say not either or but yes, end
Speaker 2: they have extraordinarily talent times and you multiply that by
Speaker 2: the effort. You know, a lot of people without the
Speaker 2: talent can't sustain that effort because they're not getting any
Speaker 2: return on their investment, so he was able to get
Speaker 2: at talent.
Speaker 1: Think about how much talent Alan Iverson had. You know,
Speaker 1: I would bet that he had more talent than Kobe Bryant.
Speaker 3: Comes at both of them coming into the.
Speaker 1: League, so talent, and Kobe surpassed him on a talent
Speaker 1: level by multiples, by the work that Kobe put in
Speaker 1: versus you know what, the work that Alan and Alan's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite players. But the what's real is
Speaker 1: real Kobe. Kobe put in a lot more work.
Speaker 2: I hear you. I hear you. But creativity is something
Speaker 2: more than just effort and work. Where does creativity come from?
Speaker 2: Where does the drive to innovate? You can't practice it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think you could practice it? I think
Speaker 3: so what's interesting in creativity? I love watching.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things to do is I love watching.
Speaker 1: I love being in the studio when songwriters are writing songs.
Speaker 1: And I love doing artist video artists visits to like
Speaker 1: visual artist painters or sculptors, going to their studios and
Speaker 1: watching them work. And it's like it's almost like the
Speaker 1: sort of download from from God in.
Speaker 3: Terms of the like ideas and where these things come from.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I've heard multiple songwriters
Speaker 1: say is that if they're not in this sort of
Speaker 1: quiet place and if they're not tuned in, somebody else
Speaker 1: is going to get that song.
Speaker 3: That song is going to come like that song comes
Speaker 3: from somewhere, and you.
Speaker 1: Got to be tuned in, whether you know, whether you
Speaker 1: want to call it spiritually, you know, whatever, You've got
Speaker 1: to be tuned in to be able to.
Speaker 3: Put forward to be downloaded through you. So like the
Speaker 3: other thing.
Speaker 1: Though, like sort of taking that sort of that intangible
Speaker 1: piece of it. It's also like some of the best
Speaker 1: creators understand theory, and they understand rhythm, and they understand sounds,
Speaker 1: and they always sort of pushing what's next, and like
Speaker 1: you know, like is certain producers who like a Max Martin,
Speaker 1: who I feel like is another genius.
Speaker 3: It was just one of.
Speaker 1: The best pop music producers and history from all the
Speaker 1: way back through Britney Spears Hit Me Baby One More Time,
Speaker 1: all the way up to the weekend I Can't fill
Speaker 1: my Face, you know. So he's like been doing this
Speaker 1: over decades and has had more number number one hits,
Speaker 1: but it's like he knows pop melody and justsonically tuned
Speaker 1: in and he studied pop music, so it's like, and
Speaker 1: that's that Michael Jackson study pop music. Michael Jackson studied
Speaker 1: the history of music, So it's like, so I think
Speaker 1: it's this sort of the amount of work that goes
Speaker 1: into it and understanding the craft has to be married
Speaker 1: to sort of the intangible piece as well.
Speaker 2: I agree completely, And you know, forgive me if I'm
Speaker 2: going outside my lean for a second, but I am
Speaker 2: really trying to be a pop really a real pop psychologist,
Speaker 2: and I study pop music because I think there's a
Speaker 2: lot I can learn from other fields. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it almost sounds crazy for a psychologists to say that,
Speaker 2: but I love I love hip hop, I love pop music.
Speaker 2: I love pop culture. And the more that I can
Speaker 2: learn about you know, what sticks in that world, I
Speaker 2: think I can actually apply that to know how to
Speaker 2: frame things so people really get interested in certain psychological concepts.
Speaker 1: Were great pop songwriters know and that you know it
Speaker 1: applies to your world. Is like we know about writing
Speaker 1: books and we know how important it is because melody
Speaker 1: and hook you want people to make to be able
Speaker 1: to remember it, you know. And what I'm saying that
Speaker 1: the repetition, like you know, so in your world of
Speaker 1: talk shows and what everybody remembers and you get a car,
Speaker 1: You get a car, You get a car, right, and
Speaker 1: you know you people sign off of TV shows, right yeah, Oprah.
Speaker 1: You think about repetition, You think about simplicity and and
Speaker 1: and messaging. The other piece I think that pop artists
Speaker 1: do incredibly well, and probably better than any other field,
Speaker 1: is it's this connection between the person and fans and
Speaker 1: sort of how do you build a connection, how do
Speaker 1: you bring audience along with you? How do you build
Speaker 1: this this sort of emotion, these emotional ties in between
Speaker 1: and so and and and and that's a part that
Speaker 1: that I feel like pop stars have done incredibly well.
Speaker 3: You know we we've.
Speaker 1: Done a lot of work and a lot of studies
Speaker 1: around like iconography and so you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's things like.
Speaker 3: You know, in pop.
Speaker 1: Culture, what we what we would say is a pop
Speaker 1: star is somebody that you could dress up ask for
Speaker 1: Halloween and everybody, you know, everybody.
Speaker 3: Knows who you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Know, it's like everybody knows who you are. So and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, in terms of what you do,
Speaker 1: it's like it's a million podcasts out there, but making
Speaker 1: sure that everything that you do stands out so it
Speaker 1: doesn't blend in with the wallpaper.
Speaker 2: I teach an eight week online course called the Transcend Course,
Speaker 2: and I once had a Halloween like I had all
Speaker 2: the students, I asked them to dress up, and so
Speaker 2: one of my students did dress up as me. That's great,
Speaker 2: that's great, that did happen. He actually like took a
Speaker 2: cardboard cutout picture of me and put it on his
Speaker 2: face and everyone know it was me in the room. Yeh,
Speaker 2: that's so funny. Let's talk about the future of the
Speaker 2: future of this business, because I think you're very prescient.
Speaker 2: You see a very you really see that things are
Speaker 2: changing in the music industry. You right now you work
Speaker 2: for you Q and A. It's if I believe it's
Speaker 2: called Q and A.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Venice is are operating company Q.
Speaker 2: And A Venice Venice Innovation Labs, right as a full
Speaker 2: the full thing. So I love the name of that.
Speaker 2: First of all, I love innovation. Can you tell me
Speaker 2: you know some things you think are on the horizon
Speaker 2: for the future of the industry. I've read, I've read
Speaker 2: a lot of your thoughts about it, but I'd love
Speaker 2: to hear it from your own mouth and then and
Speaker 2: telling our listeners what you where you see it's going
Speaker 2: or where do you think it needs to go?
Speaker 1: It's coming, It's coming really quick, and it's it's stuff
Speaker 1: that I didn't think I would see within my lifetime.
Speaker 1: And but I think AI is really going to change
Speaker 1: the face of music.
Speaker 3: And you know, we're seeing these tools.
Speaker 1: That are created that that people are creating have created
Speaker 1: already where they can take the voice of your favorite artist,
Speaker 1: sample three seconds of that voice, and then record into
Speaker 1: the phone or whatever, like you could sing into the
Speaker 1: phone and it comes out in the same voice.
Speaker 3: As that artist.
Speaker 1: So essentially, if I wanted Adele and Sam Smith to
Speaker 1: make an album together, I can just sample both of
Speaker 1: their voices, go in and and sing these parts, and
Speaker 1: you know, all of a sudden, you got this duets
Speaker 1: album between Sam Smith and Adele.
Speaker 3: And when you take that and when you layer, when you.
Speaker 1: Layer on all of the AI and deep fakes around
Speaker 1: video and this auto generated content to go alongside of it,
Speaker 1: we won't be able to tell real artists from fake
Speaker 1: artists anymore.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, we won't be able to tell.
Speaker 1: And so you know, one of my concerns is that,
Speaker 1: you know, when you when you listen to platforms like
Speaker 1: a Spotify or Apple Music, the average listener doesn't really
Speaker 1: care what comes on that, so they listen through playlists,
Speaker 1: so you know, so you may enter on your favorite
Speaker 1: song and it might be, you know, an ed sharing song,
Speaker 1: you know that kicks off your Today's Top Hits playlist,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you know, you're cleaning
Speaker 1: your house and you hear a Bruno Mars song and
Speaker 1: then you hear a Beyonce song or Drake record, and
Speaker 1: what you're not going to realize is is not even them,
Speaker 1: It's just all sound alike.
Speaker 2: Who gets the money, whoever.
Speaker 3: Creates the sound alikes?
Speaker 1: And so, you know, my guest is, you know, with
Speaker 1: platforms like TikTok, who's like way ahead of everybody else
Speaker 1: in terms of AI, companies like that are just going
Speaker 1: to create their own artists because they don't want to
Speaker 1: pay for music. Music is expensive for those platforms, so
Speaker 1: they're not going to want to play for music, so
Speaker 1: pay for music. I think we're going to see a
Speaker 1: lot of these platforms create these sound alike artists that
Speaker 1: sound like our favorite artists is.
Speaker 3: Almost going to be like stores.
Speaker 1: You go to supermarket and all of a sudden, every
Speaker 1: supermarket start to create in their own brands.
Speaker 3: So it's like, well, we welcome, welcome to to save
Speaker 3: a lot, to save a lot of music.
Speaker 2: But do you think people will buy it, like not
Speaker 2: just physically buy it, but but buy that premise, Like,
Speaker 2: don't you think they always will want the most authentic
Speaker 2: version of it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I think I think there'll be artists that will stand
Speaker 1: out that people will still want to buy into and
Speaker 1: become fans of, that have a point of view that
Speaker 1: they want to see in concerts. But I don't, like,
Speaker 1: by no means do I think this is going to
Speaker 1: permanently replace real artists.
Speaker 3: But I do think there's going to be.
Speaker 1: A huge, huge, gigantic market for fake artists.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: And because under copyright law and trademark law, you can't
Speaker 1: trademark your voice. You can trademark you know, the yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, your likeness, and and you can copyright songs,
Speaker 1: but you can't you can't trademark a voice.
Speaker 2: That is so interesting. How will that affect master who
Speaker 2: owns the masters and stuff? It'll just be the whoever
Speaker 2: created the program.
Speaker 1: Whoever creates the whoever creates the program control controls the master,
Speaker 1: and it makes the money.
Speaker 2: It could be like a some fifteen year old in
Speaker 2: the basement of the grandma's house, you know, with no friends,
Speaker 2: who becomes a pop superstar.
Speaker 1: You know, yes, yes, And what I and what I
Speaker 1: see is is going to be bot factory. It's going
Speaker 1: to be bot factories, right, you know, you look at
Speaker 1: bot farms and all of this is AI generated. So
Speaker 1: they're just gonna sample who are the most popular artists.
Speaker 1: AI can create these songs. You know, pretty much instantly.
Speaker 1: You could go to chat GPT and say, write me
Speaker 1: a song about X y Z and the of this person, and.
Speaker 3: They're going to write. You know, they're going to write that.
Speaker 1: Song, and you know these bots are gonna spit these
Speaker 1: things out.
Speaker 2: But what if, like the authentic artist, the real artist
Speaker 2: like changes changes their style, changes their mind. Like I
Speaker 2: had someone try that, like some New York Times calumnists.
Speaker 2: He's like, is this what Scott parrk Aufman would say
Speaker 2: about creativity? And they showed me something that they generated
Speaker 2: from chat GPT and he wanted my comment on it,
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's pretty good, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess it is something I would have said ten
Speaker 2: years ago. But you know, I don't know, if you know,
Speaker 2: I've changed my thoughts about it a little bit, you know,
Speaker 2: but I feel like there's something deep here where it's
Speaker 2: not allowing artists to evolve and grow because it's doing
Speaker 2: so much prediction.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the stage that we're at with chat GBT,
Speaker 1: we're at the.
Speaker 3: Very very very beginning stages, very beginning stages. So we're
Speaker 3: at aol down.
Speaker 1: Up stage right now, and look how it is, you know,
Speaker 1: like when you when you see how advanced this thing
Speaker 1: is and how fast it is, and this is very
Speaker 1: beginning stages. But the end the next year is going
Speaker 1: to be way beyond where it's at right now. So
Speaker 1: I think, you know, as fast as an artist can move,
Speaker 1: it's going to be as fast as artificial intelligence can
Speaker 1: can adjust, you know. So I think what's going to
Speaker 1: be important though, is this is when artists are going
Speaker 1: to have to build real emotional connections with fans. This
Speaker 1: is when putting on live really great live shows and
Speaker 1: having real point of views as an artists are going
Speaker 1: to count. And because I think, you know what we
Speaker 1: saw during the streaming age of music is one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand songs a day being uploaded on Spotify, a lot
Speaker 1: of artists who who hadn't invested and really building careers,
Speaker 1: you know. So we've seen a lot of not so
Speaker 1: great music. So it's gonna make it's going to force
Speaker 1: artists to be better at at at this point, and
Speaker 1: so I think we'll get a lot of standouts from
Speaker 1: you know, from artists who.
Speaker 2: Are real Yeah, I totally see that. What do you
Speaker 2: see as the future of talent talent spotting, you know,
Speaker 2: not not just management, but I'm talking about spotting, you
Speaker 2: know what. You know, how can we the kids that
Speaker 2: don't have the privileges, don't have the opportunities to get
Speaker 2: their stuff out there, but they have the talent, What
Speaker 2: can we do to really kind of increase the chances
Speaker 2: that they'll be discovered.
Speaker 1: The beauty of platforms like like a like a TikTok
Speaker 1: and YouTube as well, is that these are these are
Speaker 1: tools where you can upload things yourself, let people connect
Speaker 1: with your personality. And thing I found with artists, it's
Speaker 1: never been just about the music.
Speaker 3: You can't build stars that way.
Speaker 1: You can build a you can build a catalog, but
Speaker 1: it's hard to build stars. Building real stars has always
Speaker 1: been about does this person have a unique.
Speaker 3: Point of view?
Speaker 1: Are they going to be able to connect Like so
Speaker 1: when you look at like like one of the things
Speaker 1: like somebody like Megan trainor who I love like she's
Speaker 1: like a little sister Megan. When she came out with
Speaker 1: all about that base, she was straight about like I'm
Speaker 1: not your average pop star. I'm going to talk about
Speaker 1: body shaman, I'm going to talk about being proud of
Speaker 1: your size, you know, and I'm gonna I'm gonna show
Speaker 1: girls that it doesn't matter what shape you are, how
Speaker 1: confident that you could be, you could be bad.
Speaker 3: And that's who she was.
Speaker 1: And people they didn't just buy into the song, they
Speaker 1: bought into her and that's why she's still sustaining to
Speaker 1: this very day. And like, you know, when you think
Speaker 1: about like John Legend's activism and like people like he had,
Speaker 1: he has a very real point of view on things,
Speaker 1: whether you agree with them or not. He's open about
Speaker 1: his positions on the world. Gaga with lgbt Q issues
Speaker 1: from the very beginning, you know, and and you know,
Speaker 1: she was a voice for a very young generation.
Speaker 3: You know, pre don't ask, don't tell, you.
Speaker 1: Know so, so like I think, you know, just being
Speaker 1: able to express your point of view alongside of your creativity,
Speaker 1: I think is a thing that builds emotional connection between
Speaker 1: an artist and their audience.
Speaker 3: So it brings it shows your personality.
Speaker 1: So I think being able to use these sort of
Speaker 1: self upload tools like a TikTok or YouTube or you know,
Speaker 1: whatever that medium may be.
Speaker 3: We're seeing a lot in the podcast space.
Speaker 1: You know, my friends from Philly, Gillian Wildlife, this podcast
Speaker 1: million dollars worth of game, and these are guys with
Speaker 1: you know, just these would be the guys that are
Speaker 1: in the barbershop just you know, talking shit all day
Speaker 1: with a strong point of view about sports, pop culture.
Speaker 1: You know, relationships they have, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: biggest podcasts now but you know, because people bought into
Speaker 1: their point of view and their personality.
Speaker 3: So I just would use the tools that are available.
Speaker 2: Man, I want you to be my manager.
Speaker 3: I am your manager. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Oh? I mean, I mean, I mean you are. We
Speaker 2: want to make that announcement. You and my dad. I
Speaker 2: love your dad, you share he shares that with you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love he's my best friend and you met him,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, I think probably my last question is
Speaker 2: about independent labels. You know, I don't think they as
Speaker 2: much love as they should. I think you agree with that.
Speaker 2: What's what's the next wave? What's the next wave of
Speaker 2: independent labels?
Speaker 1: You know, it's just is me back in that state
Speaker 1: of uh rooting for the underdog.
Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, come on.
Speaker 3: I just saw, you know, these these.
Speaker 1: Independent labels and independent artists or a sort of getting
Speaker 1: a short end of the stick throughout the industry, and
Speaker 1: it was a very sort of hard, long road the
Speaker 1: travel and a lonely road to travel. So you know,
Speaker 1: we we just kind of looked at the space and said,
Speaker 1: you know, how can we help advocate, you know, behind
Speaker 1: the scenes first to be able to get them better
Speaker 1: royalty rates, better terms, make sure it's competitive with you know,
Speaker 1: with the major labels, and then sort of built this
Speaker 1: company that sort of helps them build their businesses. So,
Speaker 1: you know, when I looked at what Stopify and Square
Speaker 1: were able to do for like independent entrepreneurs and sort
Speaker 1: of like not just sort of build the point of
Speaker 1: sale systems for them, but how can we teach them
Speaker 1: and give them the information and tools to become better entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: You know, we thought about, like, how can we help
Speaker 1: independent artists and independent labels do that? So, you know,
Speaker 1: we built the technology and the services to help them
Speaker 1: accomplish that.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: You know, we feel like, you know, just being able
Speaker 1: to empower people to be able to bet on themselves,
Speaker 1: to work for themselves, to wake up in the morning
Speaker 1: every single day, you know, doing doing what they love
Speaker 1: to do. You know, I got inspired by I did
Speaker 1: a trip to Cuba with my team from Spotify, and
Speaker 1: everywhere we would go, we would go to these restaurants
Speaker 1: and bars, and it was like these amazing musicians and
Speaker 1: all of these like I mean, like some of the
Speaker 1: best musicians I've heard, like on every instrument vocally everywhere
Speaker 1: I was going, and I was asking to guide us everywhere.
Speaker 3: I said, I made that comment, and he said, he says,
Speaker 3: one of the one good things.
Speaker 1: About socialism is that they get paid to do, you know,
Speaker 1: to work on what they want to work on every
Speaker 1: single day.
Speaker 3: And he said he said this to capitalist, by the way, But.
Speaker 1: What I walked away with was when you're able to
Speaker 1: work on your craft like that every single day, you
Speaker 1: just get better and better.
Speaker 3: And better. And when you think about and what creatives
Speaker 3: in America, for the most.
Speaker 1: Part, you got to be an uber driver half the time,
Speaker 1: or a lyft driver, or you're working, you know, two
Speaker 1: or three jobs to sort of pay for your recording
Speaker 1: studio time. And so you can't do that Kobe Bryant
Speaker 1: thing and be in the gym twenty four hours a day,
Speaker 1: seven days a week. You can't be in a studio
Speaker 1: working on what you want to work on. So, you know,
Speaker 1: we we've been able to give artists ability that st
Speaker 1: to quit their jobs and make money by doing this
Speaker 1: full time. And like every time an artist tells me
Speaker 1: that they were able to leave their job and do
Speaker 1: music full time, it's just, you know, it's just it
Speaker 1: fills me up.
Speaker 2: Well, I love what you're putting out in the world,
Speaker 2: you know. I I'm creating this program for self actualization
Speaker 2: coaching and you're kind of you're the og self actualization
Speaker 2: coach over there. You never maybe have framed it that way,
Speaker 2: but that's what you are.
Speaker 3: This is a delusional.
Speaker 2: That's what you are. No, well, delusional until it's not
Speaker 2: right right, you know, dead on yourself better than yourself. Yes, well, Troy,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being on my Showtaal is
Speaker 2: a real, real honor.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you man. I always love talking to you.
Speaker 1: You know, I just think your your geniuses, yourself, your one,
Speaker 1: your one of one has been great getting to know you,
Speaker 1: and like you know, I just I want I want
Speaker 1: to be able to look back in twenty years and
Speaker 1: and be able to stay. You know, I really saw
Speaker 1: this journey because I think I think out of everything
Speaker 1: that you've accomplished so far in which you've accomplished a ton, man,
Speaker 1: you got so much runway in front of you.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see.
Speaker 2: Thanks Troy, that I mean, that means the world to me.
Speaker 2: So thank you, No, thank thank you man.
Speaker 3: Let's let's let's let's have some fun together.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah. Thanks for listening to this episode of The
Speaker 2: Psychology Podcast. If you'd like to react in some way
Speaker 2: to something you heard, I encourage you to join in
Speaker 2: the discussion at the Psychology podcast dot com. We're on
Speaker 2: our YouTube page the Psychology Podcast. We also put up
Speaker 2: some videos of some episodes on our YouTube page as well,
Speaker 2: so you'll want to check that out. Thanks for being
Speaker 2: such a great supporter of the show, and tune in
Speaker 2: next time for more on the mind, brain, behavior, and creativity.