1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney. Welcome to an army of 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: normal folks. We are adding to our library, and on 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: occasional fridays and hopefully more often than not, we are 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: going to start doing shop Talk. And what shop Talk 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: is is normal takes on hot topics, not going to 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: have a guest. They're only going to be about ten 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: minutes long, and hopefully they're food for thought on different 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: things that are going on in society, maybe even dive 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: into some of these issues our politicians argue of, or 10 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: maybe just discussing basic fundamentals and tenants. But we wanted 11 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: to add to the library. We wanted to give everybody 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: something new and fresh to think about in addition to 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: our amazing guests. And so welcome to one of one 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: of shop Talk. And today we're going to talk about 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: forgiveness in a very personal way. Right after these brief 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: messages from our general sponsors, welcome back everybody to shop Talk. 17 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: Some of you, if you've listened to all the episodes, 18 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: read my book, heard me in a speech, watched Undefeated, 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: any of it, I've probably heard me talk about how 20 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: fatherlessness really affected my life. My fourth datty one night 21 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: after drinking about a half gallon of us or Scotch 22 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: took out a thirty eight caliber pistol and shot up 23 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: her house, and in the middle of it, he shot 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: at me down a hallway. And if you've ever you've 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: never been in this situation to hear a bullet flying 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: by you. But oddly, a bullet when it's passing you 27 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: has an interesting sound. It sounds like like something spinning 28 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: real fast, but you can't hear it if it's close enough. 29 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: And I did, and I remember the hangers in the 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: closet behind me as the bullet passed me. The hanger's 31 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: clanking because the bullet went through the closet door and 32 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: hit the hangers and they clanked. I dove out a window, 33 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: ran to a neighbor, called the cops. Cops got there 34 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: pretty quick, and when they came in, my mom was 35 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: cowered in a corner in the attic and he was reloading. 36 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: House was destroyed, bullet ols everywhere. Pretty traumatic stuff. And 37 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: I was in my late teens at the time, and 38 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: so i'd left. I was four. Mam was buried divorced 39 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: five times. This was Daddy number four, and it was 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: just one more episode of really dysfunction and trauma that 41 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: affected me well into life as a husband and a father, 42 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: and it affected the way I interacted with my wife 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: and my kids. But we're talking about forgiveness today, and 44 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: what I've learned about grace is it is so much 45 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: more important for the forgive error than the forgiven. When 46 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: you hold things that have happened to you, or things 47 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: that have upset you, or wrongs that have been done 48 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: against you, and you covet those and you don't forgive 49 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: the perpetrator of those actions that hurt you, it will 50 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: eat you up from the inside. And with regard to 51 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: my father, with regard to a lot of things that 52 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: went out in my life as a child, and with 53 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: regard to this specific incident, that's what was happening to me. 54 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: I never could release myself from the anger, the fear, 55 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: the trauma, and the desperation of that night. And it 56 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: affected me. It affected me as a father, affected me 57 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: as a business owner and a boss, That affected me 58 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: as a father and husband. That just affected me. And 59 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: to be perfectly candid, one of the worst days in 60 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: my family's existence was Father's Day because it brought up, 61 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, all of this stuff, and I never understood 62 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: that it wasn't about me celebrating the men of my 63 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: life who never stepped up and became a father, but 64 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the deliciousness of the opportunity I had as a man 65 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: with my four beautiful children. And I regret that. So 66 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: one day, about ten years ago, I got a phone 67 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: call and it was from a man who said that 68 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: he was in the prayer group in a Sunday school 69 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: with my mom's ex husband who shot up the house, 70 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: and that that guy would like to see me, and 71 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: I said okay. I don't even know why I said okay, 72 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: maybe more out of curiosity than anything, but I did 73 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: say okay, And I expected I was going to go 74 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: to a Piccadilly or something, but I was told to 75 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: go to Saint Francis Hospital and the room and I went, 76 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: and I found him laying in bed, a shell of 77 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: his former self, sick, and he told me all that 78 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: was going on in his life around that time. He'd 79 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: lost his job, he'd had a quadruple bop ass, he 80 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: had cancer. He was fifteen years older than my mom, 81 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: and my mom at the time was beautiful, and he 82 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: was still he was kind of falling apart, and he 83 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: turned to alcohol to mascus pain, and he got drunk 84 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: run night and let all of the trauma from his 85 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: life from a kid and a young adult and into 86 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: where he was feeling lost and hopeless and like a 87 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: failure because his body and his health wouldn't let him 88 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: work anymore. And he had the worst night of his life, 89 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: just like I did. And he had for fifteen years 90 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: carried with him enormous guilt, and had it not been 91 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: for his Sunday school class and his men's prayer group, 92 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: he doesn't know how he would deal with himself. And 93 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: that he wanted to see me simply to explain all 94 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: of that, not as an excuse, and then to beg 95 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: me for my forgiveness. And he told me that he 96 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: thought I was an amazing young man, I'd grown into 97 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: a fantastic father and adult, and that he did not 98 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: want to pass this earth without at least telling me 99 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: how sorry he was and how important it was that 100 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: I forgive him. And he looked me dead eyes and 101 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: he said, and I'm telling you what I've learned ten 102 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: years my life, is you need to forgive me, not 103 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: for me, but for you. I left the hospital room 104 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: that night, confused and frustrated, thought about it, talked with 105 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: Lisa about it, prayed about it. I went back the 106 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: next day and with tears flowing down my face, told 107 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: him I forgave him and that I was sorry his 108 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: life was where it was, and that that it was over, 109 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: and thanked him for helping me unload that burden. Three 110 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: days later, I got a call from the same man 111 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: who asked me to come visit him, and I was 112 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: told he passed. He had no money, he was destitute, 113 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: and he grew up in a really small town in Arkansas, 114 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: and he wanted to be cremated, and so they had 115 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: him cremated, and these men in the prayer group literally 116 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: built about a shoebox sized pine box and they put 117 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: his remains in it. And they called me about a 118 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: week later and they said they, you know, they he 119 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: hadn't didn't have a burial plot or anything, but that 120 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: they called a man who owned a small cemetery in 121 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: his home in Arkansas and they were going to go 122 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: over there and figure out how to bury him. And 123 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: asked if I want to go, and I said sure. 124 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: So I met him over there, and we met the 125 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: caretaker of the cemetery and he showed us a very 126 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: little plot, literally a three foot by three foot area 127 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: in the corner by a fence. They said, you can 128 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: have the spot. And the minister prayer group had a 129 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: very simple seven by nine not even a headstone, just 130 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: a piece of granite to lay in the grass that 131 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: simply said his name, the day was born, in the 132 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: day died. And I took a shovel and I dug 133 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: the hole, and I put his remains in the hole, 134 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: and I filled it up, and I put the marker 135 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: on top of it, and we said a prayer and 136 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: we left. So I literally buried the man with forgiveness 137 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: and love that tried to shoot me and kill me 138 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: one night, And the only way I was able to 139 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: do it was through grace and forgiveness. And I speak 140 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: about it now not with anxiety and anger and frustration, 141 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: but I speak about that night now actually with humility 142 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: and thankfulness, because it taught me that no matter what 143 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: happens in your life, if you can carry grace and 144 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: forgiveness into situations, you can emerge better from them, and 145 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: it serves those in your life around you. Because after 146 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: that I was able to let so much of my 147 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: fatherlessness issues go and be so much of a better 148 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: father to my own kids, and a better husband to 149 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: my wife, and really a better person to the people 150 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: in my orbit because I was no longer carrying all 151 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: this anger and anxiety in me that affected the way 152 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: I interacted with other people who had nothing to do 153 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: with the people or incidents that affected me in the 154 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: first place. And then the last thing is a very 155 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: very broken man who did a very very very bad 156 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: thing was able to pass with forgiveness and grace in 157 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 1: his heart because he reached out to me to ask 158 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: my forgiveness. So as you think about the story, I 159 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: hope you'll think about the things that you're harboring inside 160 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: your life, and I hope you'll think about those who 161 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: wronged you and look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, 162 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: have I forgiven? Is it a burden to me? Am 163 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: I allowing something that's happened in my past to affect 164 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: my relationships with people that have nothing to do with it. 165 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: Have I understood? Grace and forgiveness? I challenge you to 166 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: think about that, because it will make you better, and 167 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: it will make those around you feel better, and it 168 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: will unburden you with things that cause you and those 169 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: in your life issues. So that's one of one of 170 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: Shop Talk think about forgiveness this weekend. We'll see you 171 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: next week.