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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where, like new

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Aurora investor Cheryl Reeve, we also rock our Aurora

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Speaker 1: gear during WNBA playoffs, only differences. You know, we're wearing

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Speaker 1: it on the couch, not the sidelines, but you know,

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Speaker 1: Merches Merch. It's Thursday, September twenty fifth, and on today's show,

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Speaker 1: Big Citrus is back to discuss the state of the

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Speaker 1: WNBA playoffs, the league's coaching carousel, and how OGW fans

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Speaker 1: are experiencing growing pains and pocketbook pains as the league's

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Speaker 1: popularity explodes. Plus unpacking a season of gear. The WNBA

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Speaker 1: plays the Circle Game, and the MVP is MVP and

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Speaker 1: again it's all coming up right after this welcome back,

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Speaker 1: Slash says, here's what you need to know today. Let's

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Speaker 1: start with the WNBA and the ongoing semi final series.

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Speaker 1: The Phoenix Mercury pulled off a huge comeback win on

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Speaker 1: Tuesday night to even their series with the Minnesota Links

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Speaker 1: one to one. Down by as many as twenty points

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Speaker 1: midway through the third quarter, the Mercury clawed their way

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Speaker 1: back and Phoenix guarred Sammy Whitcomb drained a three pointer

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Speaker 1: with four point three seconds left to tie the game

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Speaker 1: Ifisakalier missed a jump shot at the buzzer and the

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Speaker 1: game went to overtime, which was all Phoenix. Phoenix's twenty

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Speaker 1: point come from behind win marks the third largest comeback

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Speaker 1: in WNBA Playoffs history, and per ESPN, it's also the

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Speaker 1: first time Minnesota has ever lost a game playoff or

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Speaker 1: regular season after being up by at least sixteen points

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Speaker 1: at the half. With the Links and the Mercury now

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Speaker 1: tied one to one, the series heads to Phoenix for

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Speaker 1: Game three on Friday, and looking further ahead to what

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Speaker 1: is now a guaranteed Game four.

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Speaker 2: On Sunday, Phchs.

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Speaker 1: Arena announced it's moving the Jonas Brothers concert that was

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Speaker 1: scheduled for the same day as the Mercury Links contest

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Speaker 1: to Monday instead, and while the Jonas Brothers fans are

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Speaker 1: currently ravaging the comments section on the Mercury's posts, it

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Speaker 1: certainly marks what we consider a positive change from just

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Speaker 1: a few years ago, when Mercury playoff games were getting

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Speaker 1: moved to other venues to make space for stuff like

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Speaker 1: Disney on Ice progress. In Tuesday night's other semi final,

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Speaker 1: the Las Vegas Aces bounced back after getting blown out

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Speaker 1: in Game one by trouncing the Indiana Fever in game

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Speaker 1: two ninety to sixty eight. Following an off game on Sunday,

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Speaker 1: Asia Wilson looked more like the four time MVP that

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Speaker 1: she is in this one, posting twenty five points and

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Speaker 1: going ten of nineteen from the floor. Wilson got helped

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Speaker 1: from Melissa Smith, who put up eighteen points on seven

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Speaker 1: of nine shooting, and Jackie Young, who added thirteen points

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Speaker 1: in the win. That series also continues Friday Night with

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Speaker 1: Indiana hosting, and will have thoughts on both of those

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Speaker 1: series when Big Citrus joins me later in the show.

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Speaker 1: More WNBA, you'll recall it. On Tuesday show, I chatted

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Speaker 1: with Annie Costable about whether Sandy Brondello's job could be

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Speaker 1: on the line after the New York Liberty lost in

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Speaker 1: Round one. Well, a few hours after we recorded that conversation,

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Speaker 1: the news drop that New York is not renewing Brondelo's contract.

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Speaker 1: It marks the first time in WNBA history that a

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Speaker 1: team has fired its coach one year after winning the

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Speaker 1: league championship. Now, while the Liberty is certainly underperformed this season,

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Speaker 1: finishing fifth in the regular season standings. It's still a

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Speaker 1: surprising move given the injuries that the team had to

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Speaker 1: deal with this season and what appears to be really

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Speaker 1: strong support for Brondelo from players. Remember, Brianna Stewart was

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Speaker 1: shocked when she was asked about Brundello's job security after

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Speaker 1: the Liberty's first round exit last Friday.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen, what would you say to those who

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Speaker 3: question whether Sandy should be here next year to coach

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Speaker 3: you guys again?

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Speaker 2: What though I'm not saying I questioned it, there's just

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Speaker 2: some people that do.

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Speaker 3: I mean to anybody that kind of questions Sandy being

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Speaker 3: here like, this is a resilient group and she has

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Speaker 3: our back and we have hers.

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Speaker 2: And the way that she continued.

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Speaker 3: To kind of, I don't know, deal with the cards

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Speaker 3: she was dealt like was incredible. It wasn't easy for anybody,

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Speaker 3: but she came in every day with a positive attitude,

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Speaker 3: in a mindset to put us in our best positions

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Speaker 3: possible and best foot foot forward. So we're not going

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Speaker 3: to be a team that points fingers. You know, there's

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of us that could have done better

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Speaker 3: this season. Bo We're still gonna fight and show up

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Speaker 3: for each other every single day, and I think that's

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Speaker 3: what's the most important part.

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Speaker 2: So we have Sandy's back.

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Speaker 1: And after the news broke on Tuesday, Stuart posted to

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Speaker 1: her Instagram story quote eternally thankful for you at Brondela,

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Speaker 1: Sandy end quote. Minnesota Link's coach Cheryl Reeve also had

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Speaker 1: high praise for Brondela and asked about the news on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: take a listen.

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Speaker 4: My biggest thoughts on it is that I think, you

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Speaker 4: know I've said this before. I think Sandy's act of

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Speaker 4: a coach and Sandy willmain on her feet, like Shelby says,

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Speaker 4: and I am absolutely thrilled if I'm Seattle, Toronto and

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Speaker 4: Portland and I was just gifted.

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Speaker 2: A championship level coach and uh, you know more.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, U you know, thower competitors. I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of Sandy personally and professionally.

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas Aces coach Becky Hammond was among others who

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Speaker 1: commented on the surprise move, and it's worth noting again

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Speaker 1: that with Brondelo and Noel Quinn out, Cheryl Reeve has

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Speaker 1: now been in her position for longer than the rest

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Speaker 1: of the league's coaches.

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Speaker 2: Combined and not by a little.

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Speaker 1: Reeve was hired in two thousand and nine, has been

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Speaker 1: in charge of the Links for five seven hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy days, and the league's ten remaining coaches have a

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Speaker 1: total of four five hundred and forty nine days between them,

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Speaker 1: a difference of more than three years. But if you

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Speaker 1: think every team will be switching things up, think again.

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Speaker 1: Per report from the aforementioned any constable of front office sports,

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Speaker 1: neither the Chicago Sky nor the Dallas Wings, who finished

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Speaker 1: twelfth and thirteenth, respectively in the standings, are planning to

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Speaker 1: make coaching changes. We'll link to that story for Manny

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Speaker 1: in the show notes and talk more about the longer

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Speaker 1: leash afforded to the coaches of the league's bottom dwellers

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Speaker 1: later in the show more. WNBA Atlanta Dream General manager

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Speaker 1: Dan Pattover was named WNBA Executive of the Year on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: winning the award for a record third time. Padover, who

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Speaker 1: also won in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one while

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Speaker 1: with the Las Vegas Aces, was previously tied with Cheryl Reeve,

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Speaker 1: who also serves as president of basketball operations for the Links.

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Speaker 1: Padover's award comes after a strong season for the dream

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Speaker 1: who earned a number three seed in the WNBA playoffs.

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Speaker 1: Following the hiring of new head coach Carl Smesco and

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Speaker 1: the signings of Britney Griner and Breonna Jones during the

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Speaker 1: off season, and some facility news, the Los Angeles Sparks

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Speaker 1: have announced plans to build a practice facility located in

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Speaker 1: nearby El Segundo, scheduled to open in twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: Per a Sparks release, it'll be a fifty five thousand

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Speaker 1: square foot facility and at one hundred and fifty million dollars,

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Speaker 1: it represents the largest investment to date in the history

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Speaker 1: of women's sports for a single team. It's got all

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Speaker 1: the usual indoor basketball courts, hydrotherapy spos suites, state of

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Speaker 1: the art weight room. But I'm most interested in the

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Speaker 1: specific language that the presser uses for some of the

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Speaker 1: items they describe as part of the quote unquote WNBA's

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Speaker 1: first ever indoor outdoor player sanctuary. They talked about training

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Speaker 1: spaces bathed in daylight to support energy and recovery, extensive

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Speaker 1: use of natural light, and fully retractable doors that bring

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Speaker 1: the outdoors in, and panoramic views at the Pacific Ocean

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Speaker 1: and nearby mountains sparks. I'm available. That sounds baller, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Question for y'all is it possible to have too much

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Speaker 1: of a good thing? Because a rival started announcing player

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Speaker 1: signings on Monday and we were real pumped about it,

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Speaker 1: But now they've been coming out us so fast and

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Speaker 1: furious that it's frankly hard to keep track. Newcomers to

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Speaker 1: the league as of this recording include Paige Becker, Sanaya Rivers,

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Speaker 1: Erica Wheelers, Sonya Citron, and Veronica Burton, and returning stars

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Speaker 1: include Brianna Stewart, Alissa Thomas, Satu Sabili. We'll try to

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Speaker 1: keep up, and we'll keep you caught up by linking

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Speaker 1: to the full list of player signings in the show

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Speaker 1: notes to Soccer Spain's Itana Bonmati won her third straight

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Speaker 1: Women's ballon d'Or on Tuesday, becoming the first woman to

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Speaker 1: win the award three times. But while bon Maadi is

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Speaker 1: a stellar player, her win was not without controversy. Friend

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Speaker 1: of the show Ta Merik Griffin wrote a story for

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Speaker 1: The Athletic about her shock over Bonmatti's win, not because

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Speaker 1: bon Matti isn't deserving, but because her Spanish teammate Mariona

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Speaker 1: Caldente had a stronger season and won the Champions League

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Speaker 1: trophy with Arsenal. It's also worth reading for Griffin's highlighting

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Speaker 1: of the Ballan door voting process, including how the award

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Speaker 1: is heavily influenced by European voters. We'll link to her

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Speaker 1: story in the show notes. Worth a read slices quickly

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Speaker 1: before we take a break. Want to share some great news.

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Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is a finalist for the

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Speaker 1: Signal Awards in the Best Daily Podcast category. We're up

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Speaker 1: against some heavy hitters like Atlas Obscura the Podcast and

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's The Big Take, but you can vote for us

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Speaker 1: at vote dot Signal Awards dot com. We'll link to

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Speaker 1: our category in the show notes. You do have to

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Speaker 1: sign up to vote, but it's just an email and

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Speaker 1: a password so it's super quick. So cool to have

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Speaker 1: been nominated for this and for a few other big

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Speaker 1: time awards in just our first year and a half

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Speaker 1: of the show. So we're very grateful to all of

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Speaker 1: you for listening and amplifying and sharing your favorite episodes

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Speaker 1: and just be in the amazing support for everything that

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Speaker 1: we do. We got to take a quick break. When

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Speaker 1: we come back, Big Citrus chops it up on all

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Speaker 1: things WNBA. Orange, you glad you're going to stick around

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Speaker 1: for it. Welcome back, Slices. I'm going to bring in

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Speaker 1: Big Citrus to have a conversation about all things w

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Speaker 1: But I just want to say a quick thing about

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Speaker 1: the episode from two days ago with Annie Costable and

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Speaker 1: the conversation that we had about Angel Reese's comments. I

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Speaker 1: know that really anything regarding Angel, Caitlin Clark, and certain

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Speaker 1: other WNBA hot topics is going to drive engagement, much

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Speaker 1: of it angry and Annie and I got plenty of that.

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Speaker 1: Lots of them were responses that were pretty unproductive personal attacks,

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Speaker 1: accusations of having an agenda or carrying water for the sky,

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Speaker 1: more than a couple mentions of us being white, devil's

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Speaker 1: specific freezing. Those kind of come with the job and

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Speaker 1: with social media, and I've learned not to let them

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Speaker 1: get me down. But there were also some folks, including

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Speaker 1: a slice or two, that rightfully criticized me for paraphrasing

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Speaker 1: angels comments and inserting my opinion of them in the

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Speaker 1: retelling of them instead of using direct quotes.

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Speaker 2: And you are all correct.

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Speaker 1: I should have made it clear in my summation of

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Speaker 1: her remarks when I said, no one's really worth keeping

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Speaker 1: that that was my interpretation of the line from the

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Speaker 1: original Chicago Tribune article that said, quote Reese believes there

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Speaker 1: are only two guarantees on the twenty twenty six Sky

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Speaker 1: roster herself and Cardoso end quote.

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Speaker 2: So by me being not.

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Speaker 1: Specific enough, I really muddied the conversation and took the

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Speaker 1: focus off the point that I was trying to make

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Speaker 1: about how I didn't think it was wise to speak

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Speaker 1: publicly about teammates. I stand by my opinion on the comments,

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Speaker 1: which as I think she was right about everything she

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Speaker 1: said about the Sky franchise, and she's right in demanding better,

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Speaker 1: but that I didn't think she should have criticized the

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Speaker 1: roster and specific teammates. And I think it was clear

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Speaker 1: from the reaction of some of her teammates that that

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Speaker 1: probably didn't serve her in the locker room or serve

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Speaker 1: the team. But my setup of the question for Annie

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Speaker 1: was sloppy. My delivery was sloppy, And as someone who

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Speaker 1: is really sensitive to how often Angel gets set up

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Speaker 1: to fail by clickbait sites, or outright manufactured quotes and claims.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have contributed to that by not being explicit

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Speaker 1: and clear in that conversation, So please keep holding me

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Speaker 1: to a higher standard. That's where I want to live.

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Speaker 1: I prefer when you do it nicely, but I'll take

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Speaker 1: it when you don't as well. So I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to put that out there, and I took down the

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Speaker 1: videos of Annie and I talking because those will spread

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Speaker 1: faster than my clarifications about how what I said was

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Speaker 1: not a direct quote of Angels. But I wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure I said something here too, because I'm not

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Speaker 1: infallible to mistakes like that, and I just need to

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Speaker 1: be a little cleaner about it, especially in a space

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Speaker 1: where so often women are misrepresented.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know if y'all had anything to say

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Speaker 2: about that too. I felt bad about it.

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Speaker 1: I also don't have an agenda, and I really often

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Speaker 1: say my feelings very explicitly about how the Sky handled

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Speaker 1: their business, so I think it's quite clear I'm not

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Speaker 1: carrying water for them.

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Speaker 2: Sarah, my only comment on this is you white devil.

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Speaker 5: No, not you too. I, for the record, do not

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Speaker 5: think Sarah is a white devil. I think, you know,

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Speaker 5: like you said, these are touchy subjects, right, Like, these

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Speaker 5: are very touchy subjects. And the WNBA, thankfully, gratefully and

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Speaker 5: also unfortunately, is getting to this point where all the

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Speaker 5: increased visibility also means increased like nonsense and people who

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Speaker 5: want to read certain things into certain you know, information

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Speaker 5: or things that they see online what have you. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, like you said, comes with the territory. And

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Speaker 5: I might as well give you my opinion on the

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Speaker 5: injury situation. And my opinion is I don't disagree with

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Speaker 5: the damn thing she said, none of it, None of

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Speaker 5: it from the from the organization, the front office, to

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Speaker 5: the facilities, to even the roster and the team. Like

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Speaker 5: I love Courtney Vanderslout, I also am concerned. I was

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Speaker 5: concerned this season when they made the trade, you know

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Speaker 5: what that was gonna look like. And so I think

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Speaker 5: when it comes to Angel, you know, she's twenty three.

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Speaker 5: She was born in two thousand and three. Let that

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Speaker 5: one sink in for you, right, she's a baby in

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Speaker 5: this game. She's a baby as a pro. It's only

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Speaker 5: you know, this was her sophomore year, her second year

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Speaker 5: of WNBA action. And so I think you know there

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Speaker 5: are some growing pains to be expected. In that episode

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Speaker 5: with Annie, you both mentioned how incorrect it was for

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Speaker 5: people on you know, the the MNBA side to say, oh,

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Speaker 5: we would never attack a star like this.

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Speaker 2: Y'all were absolutely correct to say, yes we would.

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Speaker 5: And it's also true that those people are giving grace

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Speaker 5: to then move forward from that moment, right, And that's

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Speaker 5: what's most important. I think she's going to continue to

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Speaker 5: be a star in this league. She's going to continue,

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Speaker 5: I hope to have opinions on the way things are

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Speaker 5: done in whatever organization that she's playing for. And as

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Speaker 5: somebody who works hard and has gotten to this point

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Speaker 5: because of the work that she's put in, she deserves

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Speaker 5: to have the space to have those conversations. But they

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Speaker 5: just need to happen in a boardroom or amongst you know,

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Speaker 5: sky front office people and in a different way. And

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Speaker 5: she said to her, well, actually I didn't agree with

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Speaker 5: She said, it's the messenger, not the message.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 2: It was the message, babe, It was the message too.

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Speaker 2: It was the message too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think, like you said, you can agree with the message,

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Speaker 1: which I do, and still think it doesn't serve her

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Speaker 1: or the team or her teammates to publicly speak exactly

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Speaker 1: to specific names. And I think you saw from folks

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Speaker 1: like Ariel Atkins and some others that weren't maybe named specifically,

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Speaker 1: but felt like they were included in the comment that

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Speaker 1: I read a certain way, And again wasn't a direct quote.

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Speaker 2: It was a commentary that she believes the only guarantees.

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Speaker 1: Are for that that other people felt that way too,

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Speaker 1: And I think you can both say it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: great thing to do and also say and then we

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Speaker 1: move on, and then Angel is righteous in a lot

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Speaker 1: of her criticisms, and we move forward and hope she

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Speaker 1: returns to the team. But as I've said to other people,

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Speaker 1: I do not blame her if she wants out. I

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Speaker 1: didn't blame Alena Deladon and Sylvia Fowls and Kendae Parker

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Speaker 1: and Gabby Williams and every other superstar player that has

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Speaker 1: to keep going. Yeah, damn well, you put it that way, rights,

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Speaker 1: Which is why I was frustrated with myself that my message.

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Speaker 2: I allowed my message to be modeled.

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Speaker 1: When I agree with most of what Angel said, I

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Speaker 1: just think it's a cardinal rule in sports when you

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Speaker 1: take on teammates in the media, You're probably gonna lose,

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Speaker 1: and I lost too because I failed to properly say

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to say.

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Speaker 2: What do you think, Alex? Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I mean I hope that people still take something away

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Speaker 6: from that conversation with you and Nanny, because I think

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Speaker 6: that there was a lot of truth to it. You know,

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Speaker 6: it was interesting even going back and reading that original

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Speaker 6: story in the Chicago Tribune, given how much this blew up.

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Speaker 6: I was shocked by how little Angel actually said when

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Speaker 6: it came to her teammates. And for me, I personally

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Speaker 6: divide it into two buckets, the criticizing the teammates and

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Speaker 6: the criticizing the team. And to me, my spidey sense

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Speaker 6: always goes up when anyone gets any type of backlash

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Speaker 6: for speaking at about ownership, for speaking at about facilities, resources,

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Speaker 6: things like that, because, for far too long in women's sports,

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Speaker 6: a fear of fragility, a fear of speaking up, a

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Speaker 6: fear of breaking it because if you say something bad,

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Speaker 6: all of a sudden, the whole league is going to collapse.

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Speaker 6: That kept players from speaking up and as a result

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Speaker 6: led to subpar conditions and honestly abusive conditions a lot

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Speaker 6: of times, and so fully support anyone who wants to

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Speaker 6: speak up about the reality of the life that they

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Speaker 6: are living and the team that they are playing for. Honestly,

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Speaker 6: I think the way that some of her comments were perceived,

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Speaker 6: including honestly, Sarah by you, given the way that you

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Speaker 6: ended up paraphrasing it, speaks to maybe some more of

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Speaker 6: the interpretation than the actual phrasing itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're right, it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It was more explicit in the retelling than it was

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Speaker 1: in the original, and I think that that may have

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Speaker 1: been why eventually she said she was misconstrued, right, because

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Speaker 1: she's reading all of people's reactions to it as opposed

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Speaker 1: to the direct And I have to admit I was

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Speaker 1: in Africa when that story hit, so I didn't read

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Speaker 1: all of the reactions. I read the original Chicago Tribunes

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Speaker 1: story and not the rest.

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Speaker 2: So that was interesting too.

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Speaker 1: How much of people's reactions to me were rooted in

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Speaker 1: them believing that I was taking cues from others when

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Speaker 1: I didn't even see or read any of those things

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Speaker 1: that other people opined about. It was just my as

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Speaker 1: an athlete reaction to oh up, when you talk about

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Speaker 1: teammates in the media, it's probably going to go this way.

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Speaker 6: Also, let's just point out that so often I respect

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Speaker 6: organizations that put up a paywall, because in order to

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Speaker 6: pay journalists, you have to make money. But there are

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Speaker 6: so many times that people are opining on things that

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Speaker 6: they have not read because they cannot get past the page. Yes, like,

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Speaker 6: you can't comment on something if you really haven't read.

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Speaker 2: It, right, completely agree. Okay, I'm glad I got to

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Speaker 2: say that.

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Speaker 1: Let's deftly, intentionally and with clarity discuss some other issues

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Speaker 1: in the WNBA. I want to backtrack quickly because Mish

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Speaker 1: you and I haven't had a chance to talk on

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Speaker 1: the show about our responses to the first round format,

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Speaker 1: and I just wanted to say I thought kicked ass

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Speaker 1: and if you go back on my social media four years,

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Speaker 1: way before Caitlin Clark was a twinkle.

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Speaker 2: In any of our eyes.

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Speaker 1: I complained about the fact that the first round didn't

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Speaker 1: allow for each team to get at least one playoff game.

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Speaker 1: I understood travel costs, I understood it's a short best

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Speaker 1: of three series, but to me, it felt like such

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Speaker 1: a great way to increase enthusiasm across the entire country

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Speaker 1: and to really make sure that every team that made

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Speaker 1: the postseason benefits in some way, and so I've always

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Speaker 1: rallied for a one to one one format in that.

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Speaker 2: And we got it, and I thought it kicked ass.

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Speaker 2: I thought it kicked ass too, man, I was.

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Speaker 5: I was more in favor of it less because of

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Speaker 5: you know, what it could do for impact and influence

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Speaker 5: that's obviously extremely important. But to me on the competitive

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Speaker 5: side of it, like it gives the lower seed team

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Speaker 5: a more honest shot to win the series. To me,

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Speaker 5: because when you go into a series like they were

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Speaker 5: a prior for two games, knowing you gotta one, you

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Speaker 5: gotta pick up one of those on the road.

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Speaker 2: That's a daunting task. Man. That's whether people.

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Speaker 5: You know, competitors will be like, oh, it doesn't matter,

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Speaker 5: you go in and get the win. Regardless, It's something

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Speaker 5: to consider. It's something to think about. And when you know,

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Speaker 5: I don't know how much the players love having to

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Speaker 5: go back and forth, like if you're in a cross

390
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Speaker 5: country series, that's not the most fun thing in the world.

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Speaker 2: Better flying private though.

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Speaker 5: At least yeah, yeah, at least at least she got that.

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Speaker 5: At least at least they have that. Maybe one day

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Speaker 5: we'll get a little bit more of an extension on

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Speaker 5: the playoffs in the postseason, so the turnaround isn't so quick.

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Speaker 5: Just just throwing that out there, but to me, I

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Speaker 5: love it for the competitive aspect of it.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about these semi final matchups. I man, we're coming.

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Speaker 1: We're recording this on Wednesday, coming off those Tuesday night games.

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Speaker 1: We could start with the Aces and the Fever. I

401
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Speaker 1: thought this looked more like what we expected out of

402
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Speaker 1: the series, but this could be recency bias where Game three,

403
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 1: the Fever yet again surprises with their ability to toned

404
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 1: down the MVP and her cohorts. I just think what

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Speaker 1: we talked about Annie and I in Tuesday's episode about

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Speaker 1: the Fever doing a tremendous job of adjusting in light

407
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Speaker 1: of injury is still going to be a factor in

408
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 1: this series when they get behind, when they get down,

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Speaker 1: if someone's having an off night. That's a team that

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Speaker 1: has already figured out how to rely on so many

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Speaker 1: different I mean, Kelsey Mitchell clearly is the center of it,

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Speaker 1: but they figured out how to rally during adversity. And

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Speaker 1: I think the Aces, from what we've seen, it's Asia

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00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: and a couple other people show up and help, and

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Speaker 1: that's how they get it done.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, And I also think, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: the experience with championship level resilience that the Aces have.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's not just the amount of talent that

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Speaker 5: they have, it's also that that's a big factor. But

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Speaker 5: for Indiana, I think that rally's running out, Sarah, I

421
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 5: think that rally is running out. I think I've been,

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Speaker 5: like you said, so extra ordinarily impressed with what they've

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Speaker 5: been able to do with what they've had this season.

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Speaker 5: I just think in a five game series, it comes

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Speaker 5: back to bite you in the ass. And I think

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Speaker 5: we saw a little bit of that in Game two.

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Speaker 5: Kelsey Mitchell isn't able to get off at the same

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Speaker 5: clip that she did in Game one. What happens, nobody

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Speaker 5: else can really rise to the occasion to the extent

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Speaker 5: that they need to to overcome a juggernaut like the

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Speaker 5: Las Vegas Aces. And so that's that's where my heart

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Speaker 5: is currently at. But I think to this point, you know,

433
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 5: like you said, they've shown us they've got guts.

434
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 2: They've got more than guts, They've got what's a.

435
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 5: Word or a body part that's even more disgusting and

436
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 5: more gritty and more you know, they've got about to

437
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 5: say they've got venus.

438
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 1: No, no, we usually say, we usually say they've got,

439
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: but we don't want they've got.

440
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 5: Those are gross too, but that's what we're looking for.

441
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 5: They've got I don't know, we'll find, we'll find another

442
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 5: is not a body part, but they've got What's.

443
00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: The other thing?

444
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 5: People say they've got moxie, moxie, Yeah, they've got all that,

445
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 5: but I just I think you need more than that.

446
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 5: You need to eat the Las Vegas aces at this juncture.

447
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 5: And then the other thing is I mentioned that championship

448
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 5: level resilience. Let's let's remember theig out their asses will

449
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 5: buy fifty three points by the Minnesota Links at the

450
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 5: beginning of August and didn't lose another game the rest

451
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 5: of the regular season. That's the kind of team, right

452
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 5: we're talking about. That's the kind of response that we're

453
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 5: talking about. And plus that loss I think hurts them.

454
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 5: I think they want the opportunity to whoop that ass

455
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 5: in Minnesota's ass in the championship.

456
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 2: And that's also something that they're not gonna let go

457
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: of easily. I want to quickly mention.

458
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: You said the rest of the supporting cast didn't quite

459
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: get up enough, and that's mostly true, But nobody usually

460
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: will replace a thirty plus point performance the way that

461
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: Kelsey has, right, it's usually their, you know, their piece

462
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: of it. But Otessey sims again eighteen points after a

463
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: huge first game too. And I know, Alex, you and

464
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 1: I have had a particular interest all season in these

465
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: players that are like in it out of rosters getting

466
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: picked up on hardship contracts. We've been talking for a

467
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: couple of weeks about wanting to get one of those

468
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: players on and really dive into what it feels like

469
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: to be on.

470
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: The bubble and in and out. What have you made

471
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: of this Odyssey Simms moment.

472
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just really incredible to imagine that she

473
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: wasn't on a roster and here.

474
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 2: She is doing some huge things in the postseason.

475
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, And I think let's just refresh people

476
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 6: for a second. Odyssey played with the Sparks for twelve

477
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 6: games earlier this season before getting picked up by the Fever.

478
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 6: She had to sign three back to back to back

479
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 6: seven days contracts before she could finally get on a

480
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 6: hardship contract, and This is somebody who last year, when

481
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 6: she spent some time with the Dallas Wings, they kept

482
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 6: resigning her and you would watch as the the web

483
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 6: address for the signing was like Dallas Wings signed Odyssey

484
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 6: Simms dash three, Like if you have to start adding

485
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 6: a number after the number of times you've gotten signed

486
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 6: with the team, like wild wild.

487
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: For those whose brains don't operate the way Alex's is.

488
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: What she's saying there is that the specific URL name

489
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: would have been a repeat of a previous so they

490
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: had to add dash one, dash two, dash three each

491
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: time they re signed her so that it would be

492
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: a new landing page with the right date and the

493
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: right information because that's how many times they just kept

494
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: resigning her, which.

495
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: Is wild, truly.

496
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 6: And so here's Odyssey Sims and a great opportunity that's

497
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 6: in front of her, and yet thanks to her hoop stats,

498
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 6: I did a little bit of digging on salary numbers,

499
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 6: and as we know, negotiations around the next collective bargaining

500
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 6: agreement are ongoing. We've heard talk are we going to

501
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 6: see the first million dollar salary in the WNBA? And

502
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 6: I want to focus for a second on players like

503
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 6: Odyssey Sims because so far with the fever, for her

504
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 6: three seven day contracts, for a total of twenty one days,

505
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 6: she made thirteen thousand, nine hundred and eleven dollars. For

506
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 6: her current hardship contract, she's made seven thousand, nine hundred

507
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 6: and forty nine dollars for a total of twenty one thousand,

508
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 6: eight hundred and sixty dollars. That should not be allowed.

509
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 6: You should not be allowed to play basketball in the

510
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 6: playoffs at such a high level while making such little money,

511
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 6: because behind the scenes, she's having to work out, keep

512
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,479
Speaker 6: herself in shape, get into the gym, doing all of

513
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 6: these things while not tied to a team. And we

514
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 6: are at a point where it is exploitation, yep, to

515
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 6: allow this system to have players. Right. We talk about

516
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 6: it with unpaid internships. We talk about it with comedy

517
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 6: and exposure and theaters that don't pay right so long

518
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 6: people will say like, oh, well, you're at least getting exposure.

519
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 6: Exposure isn't good enough. And so I want to see

520
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 6: a system put in place where somebody like an Odyssey

521
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 6: Sims and so many of the other players that are

522
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 6: on hardship and seven day contracts have stability more than

523
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 6: just that single seven day contract stipend. I want to

524
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 6: be able to celebrate her, and yet the system that

525
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 6: allows this to happen just seems so broken to me.

526
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: Completely agree.

527
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: That's so well said, Alex, And yeah, the stories are

528
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: great to tell, but the reality is really hard, and

529
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: for players to be available means they can't really commit

530
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: to other things that might pay them a reasonable living wage.

531
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: They can't commit to life choices that would keep them

532
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: out of the country or unavailable, so they have to

533
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: sit and then the cost of getting to the places.

534
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: Sometimes they pay their own way to try to make

535
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: sure they're available and ready if that signing happens. Like

536
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: the idea that you could have twenty one thousand dollars

537
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: to pay for all the different things that you would

538
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: need to be at the level a professional athlete needs

539
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: to be, particularly in a league as competitive as this,

540
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: is just unreasonable. And yeah, I imagine that will be

541
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: hopefully one of the big things addressed in this CBA. Yeah,

542
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: for sure, we got to take a quick break more

543
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: with Big Citrus right after this. All right, let's get

544
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: to the other semi final, because I will say that

545
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: two of this series is the first time I have

546
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: been genuinely worried about the Minnesota Lynks for the entirety

547
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: of the season.

548
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, dating to the.

549
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: Preseason and the middle and not because of the blown

550
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: twenty point lead, which was terrible, but because multiple moments

551
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: throughout that game, they would grab back a five to

552
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: six point lead, They would get up enough that if

553
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: they made the right decisions and played smart basketball, they

554
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: could hang on to it through the buzzer, and they

555
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: kept dropping the ball midway through the third, in the fourth,

556
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: with a minute to play in the overtime, Phoenix was

557
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: just better.

558
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: Over and over again. And that has me really interested

559
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: in watching Game three.

560
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I have to totally agree with you, because when

561
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 5: I'm watching games, I'm not only basing what i'm thinking

562
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 5: on what I'm seeing. I'm also basing it on the

563
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 5: feeling of my gutt and in my chest right and

564
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 5: the feeling in my gut on so many occurrences, Oh shit,

565
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 5: Minnesota's gonna put them in a hole big enough, This

566
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 5: one's gonna be big enough. This was gonna be big enough,

567
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 5: and it was never big enough. And the thing about Phoenix,

568
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 5: they're driven by the engine. They're driven by Alissa Thomas

569
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 5: they're driven by somebody was such an indomitable spirit about

570
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 5: her that I don't think she was ever gonna let

571
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 5: that game be more than a five point loss. Like,

572
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 5: no matter what it looked like, they were down as

573
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 5: many as twenty, she doesn't care. And you can see

574
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 5: watching the game how much she demands of her teammates,

575
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 5: and so I think that's a big part of the

576
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 5: reason why, you know, Minnesota was never able to get comfortable.

577
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: And then also.

578
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: Phoenix has got some players like Monika Cole Mkanni, like

579
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 5: Sammy Whitcomb, like Catherine Westbeld, who were ready when their

580
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 5: numbers were called, ready when their names were called, west

581
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 5: Belt getting a steal, hitting a.

582
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: Huge three, Sammy Witcomb, who.

583
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 5: I thought had like the full character arc in this

584
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 5: game too, where the first few minutes she played, I said,

585
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 5: please get her out of their name, please, And then

586
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 5: come the fourth quarter she's hitting huge shots. And then Monique,

587
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 5: you know, being the point guard that's not Alyssa Thomas

588
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 5: on the floor and finding ways to get her involved

589
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 5: and hitting her shots like Phoenix.

590
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: Is very intriguing to me.

591
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 5: And I think game two just showed like they're not

592
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: going to roll over and Minnesota has real, real problems.

593
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: They can't figure out how to slow them down.

594
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 1: I think your point about Alyssa Thomas spot on and

595
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: the amount of ground she covers, stealing a ball, running

596
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: the point, passing it off, getting it back, cutting the lane.

597
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: I mean, she is so strong and she is so

598
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: physically imposing in every spot she gets on the court.

599
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: That was a huge part.

600
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: But I'm not letting the links off the hook for

601
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: the sloppiness at the end of the fourth whether it

602
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: was Courtney Williams thrown away passes, whether it was Alana

603
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: Smith co Defensive Player of the Year jumping on defense

604
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: and getting out of position, whether it was Ifisa Collier

605
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: sometimes not looking like she got big enough. Put up

606
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: those elbows, make yourself a wider target. Just like there

607
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: were just these little moments where it was like God, fundamentals,

608
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: a couple of little fundamentals, and this is sewn up,

609
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: and they don't have enough time to come back and instead,

610
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: and that's you know, certainly pressure from the Phoenix bur

611
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: cury crossing half court and everything else on the inbounce passes,

612
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: everything else. But I don't think it's unreasonable to think

613
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: that the links can fight back in those moments, but

614
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: they have to execute, and if they don't, this might

615
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: be the team that will make them pay.

616
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, speaking again about my gut, there

617
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 5: was a interview right before the start of the fourth quarter,

618
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 5: I think with Kaylea McBride oh Or. She was asked,

619
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 5: you know, hey, Phoenix is going on runs, like what

620
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 5: are you guys gonna do to really lock this thing

621
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 5: down down the stretch? And I could just she was

622
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 5: she was projecting a lot of confidence, like we you know,

623
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 5: we're ahead.

624
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: We just need to slow down, take care of things.

625
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: We'll be all right.

626
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 5: For some reason, my gut was like, no, maybe you

627
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 5: endanger girl.

628
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 6: You in danger, girl, you in danger?

629
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 5: So interesting, interesting stuff. I think that series has gone

630
00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 5: five for sure?

631
00:30:59,280 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: You do?

632
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: Oh?

633
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 5: Hell ya, hell yeah, because I think Minnesota is going

634
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 5: to get their look back on Phoenix's home court and

635
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 5: it's going to come down to who can really get

636
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 5: it done in Target Center game five.

637
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: I definitely think it's going five. Yeah, Okay, okay.

638
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: I want to say one last thing about this playoff

639
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: series because usually in my brain, I think it's ESPN

640
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: brain content brain. It's like a combination of the two

641
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: from all the years where we would have these hypothetical

642
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: questions of which of these is the best for the NBA,

643
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Which of these winners is the best for the NFL.

644
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: So let's play a little.

645
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: Game here of the remaining teams, which is the best

646
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: story for the WNBA if they go on to win

647
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: the title?

648
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 6: Well I'm laughing now thinking about that, Sarah, because there's

649
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 6: nothing TV execs love more than a New York LA showdown.

650
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 6: In neither of those T teams have made it that far.

651
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: Or in the case of the w Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese.

652
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: But that's not happening either. True.

653
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 6: I don't know if I want to deal with a

654
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 6: world in which the headlines after the Indiana Fever without

655
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 6: Kaitlyn Clark win the WNBA title, Like Kaitlyn Clark leads

656
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 6: from the bench like I don't know, I don't know.

657
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 6: Oh boy, you can.

658
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 5: Literally write it right now, because that's exactly what it's

659
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 5: gonna say verbatim.

660
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, they couldn't have done it without her voice.

661
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: A lot of five thousand word think pieces about how

662
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Clark was the inspiration behind it all, every single

663
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: teammate who actually played being asked about the role that

664
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: Caitlyn played from the bench.

665
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: Another book. Maybe, oh my god.

666
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 6: Not to minimize the role that Kaitlin clearly is playing, right. No, No,

667
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 6: It's one of those things where it's like, let's just

668
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 6: focus on the players on the court too. What would

669
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 6: be best for the man's hair. I'm really having to

670
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 6: think on this one.

671
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: You'd never make it on around the Horn.

672
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: You would have been muted to make a decision negative

673
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: one thousand boys.

674
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 6: My brain is still trying to come up with a

675
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 6: better word for anus, and I'm like thinking about the

676
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 6: fairnks that frogs had to digest food and thences Misha.

677
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 5: I actually do think if I believe in my heart

678
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 5: that they could do it, and I don't think that

679
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 5: I believe that based on what I just told you

680
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 5: about the fever Aces series, if Indiana did have the

681
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 5: gumption to get it done, though, I do think that

682
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 5: would be the best story for the league as a

683
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 5: whole because of exactly what you just said, Because it

684
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 5: would show Indiana in and of itself is not just

685
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 5: Caitlyn Clarkland. There's so much more here, even Indiana basketball,

686
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 5: like the storyline of Steph White playing at Purdue, winning

687
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 5: at Purdue, playing for Indiana like she is, Indiana basketball down.

688
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 5: So I think there would be that aspect of the story.

689
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 5: Kelsey Mitchell has been doing her thing in the WNBA

690
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 5: for years, years, and still even to the end of

691
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 5: the regular season, even to now, it's been Oh, Kelsey

692
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 5: Mitchell's been picking up the slack.

693
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: Kelsey Mitchell's been picking up the slack.

694
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 5: In a world where Indiana wins the championship, Kelsey Mitchell

695
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 5: goes absolutely, she goes absolutely ballistic.

696
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: That's the only way that they win a championship.

697
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 5: And so in my imagination, if that were to happen,

698
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 5: she would get all the shine that she so rightfully deserves.

699
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 5: And then you know Ossie Simms who you just mentioned,

700
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 5: Shay Petty who you just mentioned, who are the kind

701
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 5: of gritty that keeps you in the league no matter what,

702
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: no matter injuries, no matter where you are, Like that

703
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 5: would be an incredible story for the league if I

704
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 5: thought it was possible.

705
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: I don't think Misha just added gumption. So I think

706
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: the title of this episode has to be like hutzpamoxy

707
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 1: and gumption, because you've now listed like every cutesy word

708
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: we give her a woman who fights back.

709
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: I have two answers to this.

710
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: My first and I think biggest, clearest answer is the

711
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: Minnesota Lynx. I think having the story of redemption from

712
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: last year, building on what fans learned about that roster,

713
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: whether it's Fee or McBride or Lena Smith or the

714
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: stud Buds Cheryl Reeve like those stories. Repeating stories are

715
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: good for women's sports because a lot of new fans

716
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: will then attach to those players having seen them back again,

717
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: getting a taste for that team again. And I think

718
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: the story of redemption is great, So I think that's

719
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: my answer. My only secondary would be the Aces.

720
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 5: Now.

721
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: The Aces have won enough.

722
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: In recent years that they don't really need to be

723
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: at the top again, But as we continue to try

724
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: to really get through the average viewer's mind what they're

725
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: watching in Asia Wilson, another title with her at the top,

726
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: while she's selling her shoes, while we're watching her commercials,

727
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: while we're talking about a record forth, the MVP will

728
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: just I think, re solidify her place at the top

729
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: of the league when so often people are choosing to

730
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: talk about other players, and I love the conversation about

731
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: all the different great players, but that would be useful.

732
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: I think to the league as well. I still think

733
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: the links are the best story.

734
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

735
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 5: I have a secondary offtion too, which is actually my

736
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 5: primary option because, as I just mentioned, the one to

737
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 5: be very clear about, I don't think Indiana's winning your championship.

738
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 5: To me, the best actual, realistic option is Phoenix. Like

739
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 5: I'm surprised nobody else has said, two gay moms Alyssa

740
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 5: Thomas and Delana Ponner for the league.

741
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: This is not for your personal gay Agendammish.

742
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 5: You know what this is about me. This is about me,

743
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 5: right now? Okay, the league for a second, Two gay

744
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 5: moms who were together in Connecticut and got there so close,

745
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 5: so close, so close, never able to push it across

746
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 5: the finish line find their way back together through completely

747
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 5: different paths, completely different sets of turmoil, to come back

748
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 5: and win a championship a franchise that hasn't won one

749
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 5: since twenty fourteen, with Nate Tibbetts leading the way, right, Okay,

750
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 5: we don't need to talk about him.

751
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: He wasn't a part of the fantasy. This is a

752
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 2: rom com and a fantasy romance novel.

753
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: But I'll take it, and I like it, and I

754
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: do think there's something to be said for Alyssa Thomas

755
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: never getting her shine, and if she leads a team

756
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: to a title she finally will.

757
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 2: That is good for the league beyond just Alyssa Thomas.

758
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: As for the two game mom storyline.

759
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: That might be best for our show, that might be

760
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: the best Hoops and Gays shit update we ever have,

761
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: I don't know as much if that's necessarily for the

762
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: league the best thing. Okay, let's talk about this league

763
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: and the coaching carousel, because my face, y'all, when just

764
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: hours having a conversation with Annie Costable about how you're

765
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: allowed to ask if Sandy Brundella's job is safe, but

766
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: come on, then they don't renew her contract. My jaw

767
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: was on the floor. I guess I shouldn't be surprised

768
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: at this point the amount of movement that there is

769
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 1: in this league, but still in a season absolutely destroyed

770
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: by injury, with no consistency in that row. I am

771
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: dumbfounded about what they think will come and be better

772
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: than the situation there. Now.

773
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:08,959
Speaker 2: I have to say ditto.

774
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 5: I have to say if I was a cartoon, my

775
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 5: eyeballs would have poked out of my skull three times

776
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 5: with a little you know, the little sound of.

777
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: I don't get this shit.

778
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 5: I don't understand, Like it would make more sense to

779
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 5: me if they had mutually agreed to part ways because

780
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 5: she wanted to pursue another opportunity elsewhere, Like that would

781
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 5: make sense to me. The other thought I had was like,

782
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 5: maybe they want to be lean and flexible based on

783
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 5: the prospect of new personnel and maybe a new style

784
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 5: of play or whatever that might come in twenty twenty six.

785
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 2: But that's too many.

786
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 5: Variables to get rid of somebody with her kind of resume, Like,

787
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 5: it just doesn't make sense to me. What so I

788
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 5: mean winning as coach in franchise history. Frankly, you know,

789
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 5: because I was so used to her in Phoenix. When

790
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 5: she went to New York, it was kind of like

791
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 5: an identity crisis issue for me. I didn't understand how

792
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 5: she would fit in. To me, she amplifies everything that

793
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 5: the New York Liberty want to be putting out there

794
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 5: in terms of their team vibe and the way they

795
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 5: go about things.

796
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: I do not understand.

797
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 5: I wish we had Rika Laiala on today to explain

798
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 5: to us what the hell is going on? Because she

799
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 5: she's down and with all the things happening with New

800
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 5: York Lirity Basketball.

801
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: Or our girl Renee Stubbs, who isnt good friends with

802
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: Sandy Broundelo sitting courtside and has set on her Instagram

803
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: she's not renewing because she doesn't know what the hell

804
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: the team is doing here. Alex, there's that which shocked

805
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: us all, and I didn't see a single person who

806
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: seemed to agree.

807
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: With the move.

808
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: And then there's the fact that the two male coaches

809
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: of the twelfth and thirteenth ranked teams in the league

810
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: this year, are, according to reports, going to stay in

811
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: their jobs. Do you think it's right and smart that

812
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: Christical Klanis of the Wings and Tyler Marshap the Sky

813
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: are sticking around?

814
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: Now, keep this in mind.

815
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: I think it's very easy to sort of be flippant

816
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: about it and be like, this is bullshit that men

817
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: get a longer lease than the women. I do wonder, though,

818
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: when you are in clearly I mean, and the Sky

819
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: weren't supposed to be clearly in a rebuild. I mean

820
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: they were a little bit, but it wasn't supposed to

821
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: be this bad. When you're the Wings, I think there's

822
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 1: an argument for trying to establish a system and keep

823
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: it going so that you're not just shuffling through coaches

824
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: with these young players, if you believe that his plan

825
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: is right, if you believe that he's got a goal

826
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: for the future and you just need to get the

827
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: right roster for it. I'm not saying that's the case,

828
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: but I'm saying it's not always a no brainer to

829
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: me that if you have a bad record that means

830
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: the coach should be replaced. Sometimes you need time to

831
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: insert a formula in a system and have the roster

832
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: to make it work. Is there an argument in either

833
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: of these teams for that, or do we think it's

834
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: kind of fishy that the two men at the bottom

835
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: have security while a bunch of women near the top

836
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: are getting shuffled.

837
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 6: I think in general sports teams, especially it seems on

838
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 6: the women's side. If anyone out there ever wants to

839
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 6: crunch the numbers on how women's leagues, you know, we've

840
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 6: talked about it. The NWSL too, just turn through coaches

841
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 6: like crazy. I think that sports teams get rid of

842
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 6: coaches way too easy, though, and I don't really understand

843
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 6: what's behind it. To me, the fact that Dallas and

844
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 6: Chicago are sticking with their coaches maybe represents more of

845
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 6: a budget question. Maybe they know they're not willing to

846
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 6: spend enough to get a good new head coach in place,

847
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 6: versus the New York Liberty, which have historically over the

848
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 6: last couple of years under these owners, been willing to

849
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 6: shell out money. I'm not saying I know what any

850
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 6: of these people are making, apart from Nate.

851
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 2: Tibbets We all know what Nate Tibbitts is making.

852
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 6: But that's just a question that I have. I mean,

853
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 6: I think for me, I always go to the players,

854
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 6: right like, do the players like playing for this person?

855
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 6: Are the players learning from this person? Are they gelling

856
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 6: under this person? That's a hard question to answer this year,

857
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 6: given what we know is coming in free agency. But

858
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 6: I would hope that as these decisions are getting made,

859
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 6: players are being considered.

860
00:41:58,760 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 2: Well in terms of that too.

861
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: I would like actual interviews, or if they're unwilling to

862
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: go on the record, they can be sources.

863
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 2: But I don't want to use.

864
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: TikTok clips to decide how bought in players are on

865
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: their coach. It very well might be possible that the

866
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: Wings players are not bought in on Chris coklanis, But

867
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm not going off of random clips from when he's

868
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: drawn up plays.

869
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: I just that doesn't feel.

870
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 1: Like enough for me, and it feels incomplete to make

871
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: judgments on how now we can look at the product

872
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: on the court, we can look at what he says

873
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: behind the scenes about his future plans. But I'm not

874
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: just going off gifts or even gifts. The last thing

875
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to quickly ask you all about is and

876
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw some of these stories,

877
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: but near the end of the regular season, there were

878
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: some Liberty fans wearing shirts and having signs and protesting

879
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: the rising ticket prices. And we've heard some of the

880
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: individual anecdotal stories of og fans who show up where

881
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 1: and whenever the team needed them to. And now some

882
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: of those people can't afford to get into games with

883
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: the new look WNBA. This is a very tricky conversation.

884
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: We are demanding more money for players, we are celebrating

885
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: private jets. We are really excited about all the areas

886
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: of growth, until it comes down to the ways that

887
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: it affects fans and their ability to come and support

888
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: teams in person, Miiche, what do you think about this

889
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: and is there any real way to solve this problem?

890
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: Knowing particularly that we don't have a lot of transparency

891
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: on how much money the teams are actually making when

892
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: you settle out all of the costs and stuff of

893
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: the league. We know the revenue is going way up,

894
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: we know the investment is going way up. We don't

895
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: really yet know how much teams are making from all

896
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: of that.

897
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 5: What I'll say first is I hope the price increases

898
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 5: are justified because of what you just said. I hope,

899
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 5: in my heart of hearts that the prices are justified

900
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 5: because we're talking about people who are foundational fans, not

901
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 5: just of the liberty, but of the WNBA folks, without

902
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 5: which we might not be here, you know what I mean,

903
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 5: we might not still be celebrating the longevity of this league.

904
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 5: So I'll say that first, I hope the price increases

905
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 5: are justified and they aren't just exploitive.

906
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: Second, the way you teed up the.

907
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 5: Question, Sarah talking about the private jets, talking about you know,

908
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 5: increasing in salaries. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those

909
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 5: are the same kind of things that in today's world

910
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 5: when we look at the way capitalism affects our society.

911
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 5: Those are the same things that we're criticizing millionaires and

912
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 5: billionaires about, right.

913
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: So to me, it's like.

914
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 5: It's tough to be at this place where we know

915
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 5: that increasing salaries and doing more for this league is

916
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 5: going to advance women, is going to advance non male

917
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 5: athletes generally speaking, is going to advance and have an

918
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 5: impact on the NWSL, the PWAs all these other things.

919
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: And try to hold that in.

920
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 5: The same hands as like there are other real world

921
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 5: issues that we're facing that we could be putting money

922
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 5: towards that these people who are fans are trying to

923
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 5: put money towards because the world is affecting them in

924
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 5: different ways. Like, those are all real truths that we

925
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 5: have to contend with. And so for that reason also,

926
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 5: I'm like, we've got to find a middle ground. We've

927
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 5: got to find a way to be kind and be

928
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 5: considerate of the people who've been here, the people who

929
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 5: you know, in their social economic status maybe haven't moved

930
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 5: as much from the beginning of the WNBA to today,

931
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 5: and how we can continue to incorporate them and make

932
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 5: it a path for being a fan, for being in

933
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 5: that crowd, in that arena, in that gym for as

934
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 5: long as they can, and people a lot smarter than

935
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 5: me are going to be the people to answer those questions.

936
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 5: But I think the W, for a league that's been

937
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 5: on the forefront of so many different issues, has to

938
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 5: really look that in the face and reckon with that

939
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 5: reality right now that the world is moving in one

940
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 5: direction and we're kind of doing a money grab right now.

941
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 5: That's deserved, but we need to find a way to

942
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 5: make it compatible with the way that, you know, everybody's

943
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 5: lives are moving.

944
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know how we answer that question.

945
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: I don't know what we do.

946
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 5: I do know that these players deserve more money. I

947
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 5: do know that Audi c SMS and Shay Petty and

948
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 5: those players who are on hardship contracts should not be

949
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 5: expected to keep doing what Alex was.

950
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: Laying out earlier.

951
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 5: But I also know that, like not just the W,

952
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 5: all these leagues, the MMBA, the NFL, y'all are going

953
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 5: to have to come to a point where you reckon

954
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 5: with the fact that you know, minimum wage isn't enough

955
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 5: for regular fans to come and watch you plan anymore.

956
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 5: It's it's pricing out people who probably need sport in

957
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 5: that community more than anybody else does.

958
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: So it's it's a very tough problem, very tough problem.

959
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 6: I struggle with this because on the one hand, I

960
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 6: want women's sports to operate in this capitalist world, and

961
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 6: also I would really be curious to see if the

962
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 6: WNBA and it's key could innovate around this problem, right, Like,

963
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 6: what would a sliding scale pay model look like? How

964
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 6: could we make sure that fans can get in the

965
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 6: door and pay what is fair to them, And maybe

966
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 6: that means other people pay more, But there are so

967
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 6: many organizations that use that type of model and have

968
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 6: fantastic results, and they get buy in from the folks

969
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 6: that can pay more because they know that they are

970
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 6: contributing in a way that helps somebody else. And so

971
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 6: I don't know what that would look like, but women's

972
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 6: sports can be a great place to innovate. The other

973
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 6: thing I want to just point out is that the

974
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 6: expenses are so high that they have to make up

975
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 6: a lot if they want to be able to profit.

976
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 6: But some of that money is coming from ticket sales,

977
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 6: but more of that money, historically across all leagues comes

978
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 6: from TV rights that's both national and local. It comes

979
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 6: from sponsors, it comes from concessions, and so this WNBA

980
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 6: new Media Rights deal I think fall short in terms

981
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 6: of what it could be valued as I think it's

982
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 6: disappointing to see that burden then get placed on the

983
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 6: fans to maybe make up some of that difference when

984
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 6: I would argue that the media rights should have been

985
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 6: valued higher.

986
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: Really great points from both of you. I want to point.

987
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: Out, like one reality is that the product that liberty

988
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: fans were getting at the beginning is very different from

989
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: the product now, And it costs money to have Ellie

990
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: and dancers and music and DJs and all the cool

991
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 1: things that have elevated women's sports so that the experience

992
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: of going to a game feels very on par with

993
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: men's professional leagues, and that didn't used to be the case.

994
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 1: So even if you love the product on the court,

995
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: you just weren't getting the same vibes and now we

996
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: are and that costs something. But it's the same problem

997
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: I think all progressive, anti capitalist, empathetic humans have, which

998
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: is how can we live in a system that we

999
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: don't agree with and push back on it while also

1000
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: accepting that we have to survive and thrive within it,

1001
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: and the onus is always put on women, marginal communities,

1002
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: people who care about giving about other people to fix it,

1003
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: while the people who are bought into the cruelty of

1004
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: the system continue to get richer and richer and more powerful.

1005
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what we should strive for. Being

1006
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: the richest and most powerful isn't happiness, it isn't success.

1007
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 2: But I do want to find a.

1008
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: Balance between demanding that the w at this incredible moment

1009
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: of growth immediately become as altruistic as possible, and demanding

1010
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: that they also are allowed to thrive in a system

1011
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: in which they're going to be held back at all

1012
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: times whether or not they operate as altruistically as we

1013
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: would like. Right, they're going to have to operate in

1014
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: the system even if they don't agree with it. So

1015
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: if we ask them to operate in a way that

1016
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: serves everyone except for them, they're not going to last

1017
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: very long. So I agree with all your points, and

1018
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: I do hope that there are some innovative and cool ways,

1019
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: and Alex probably that scale model of pricing could be

1020
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: offset by brand that really want to do right by

1021
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,959
Speaker 1: fans more so than other fans paying a higher price,

1022
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: like the sort of like rich folks should pay more

1023
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: taxes that we can't seem to make happen in our country.

1024
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: Not to mention of this words world duh, but I

1025
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: do think that there's some interesting ways to try to

1026
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: figure out how to make sure.

1027
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 2: That balance still exists.

1028
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: And like Bisha said, I hope people much smarter than

1029
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: you are the ones tasked with.

1030
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:23,919
Speaker 2: Figuring it out.

1031
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: Another amazing conversation. Gosh, I love chatting with you guys.

1032
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: You're so smart. Okay, we gotta go, though, We gotta

1033
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: take a break because we could talk all day.

1034
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 2: When we come back, we're going to unpack a season

1035
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 2: of March Welcome back slices.

1036
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to

1037
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: get in the game every day too. So here's our

1038
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. Vote for us in

1039
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: the Signal Awards. Like I said, we'll post a link

1040
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: in the show notes to our category, and you know,

1041
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: do it the Chicago way. Vote early, vote, often, vote

1042
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: more times than you're technically allowed to. We also got

1043
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: a couple emails from you all about the slack versus

1044
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: discord versus reddit and all the other options for getting

1045
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,959
Speaker 1: the Slice community together. Please keep those thoughts coming because

1046
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: we really want to hear from y'all and how to

1047
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: best bring everyone together and where you would like to

1048
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: come together. And speaking of getting together, Tuesday, October seventh,

1049
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: in New York City, I'm going to be at Beyond

1050
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: the Game, Women's Sports and the Future of Fandom, which

1051
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: is an event coordinated by PMG Advertising Agencies, So I'm

1052
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: going to be speaking about a bunch of stuff. Multiplatinum

1053
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: artist Rachel Patton, who you know from Fight Song and

1054
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: other songs, will be performing.

1055
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,959
Speaker 2: The spots are free, but they.

1056
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: Are limited, so we'll put the link in the show

1057
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: notes and hopefully there's still some spots available. If Slices

1058
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: want to come, we'd love to see you there and

1059
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: we always love to hear from you, So hit us

1060
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: up on email good Game at wondermedianetwork dot com or

1061
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two four

1062
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review.

1063
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: It's real easy watch The Sisterhood of the Traveling Players,

1064
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: rating three out of three sets of Team Unis The

1065
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 1: life of a w player on the roster bubbles Edge

1066
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: is a potent mix of uncertainty, hardship contracts, airline miles,

1067
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: and a closet full of gear for teams you no

1068
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: longer play. For This summer, former Stanford standout Hailey Jones

1069
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: started with the Atlanta Dream, briefly suited up for the

1070
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 1: Phoenix Mercury, and then ended the season with the Dallas Wings.

1071
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: She recently posted a TikTok where she was pulling shorts

1072
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: from each of those teams out of a box with

1073
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 1: the caption unpacking after being on three different teams this season,

1074
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: and then the audio was the Kendall Jenner stop. This

1075
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: was Coachella twenty sixteen. This was the vibe at the

1076
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: time while holding up her Mercury and her Dream shorts.

1077
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 2: It's too good.

1078
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: We'll link to it in the show notes, and we'll

1079
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 1: also link to a great recent ES fan story about

1080
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: Hailey Jones and other W players who are living life

1081
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 1: on the fringes of the W, swapping cities and rosters

1082
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: and just trying to find a place that they can

1083
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: make stick.

1084
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: It's a good read. Now it's your turn.

1085
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: Y'all rate and review, Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Good game, good Game. Yeah, we're shouting ourselves out. Good Game.

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Speaker 1: Other Signal Award nominees who we hope to defeat you Capitalism.

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Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports

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Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

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Speaker 2: You can find us on the.

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie

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Speaker 1: and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,

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Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter,

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Speaker 1: Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer

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Speaker 1: is Lucy Jones. Production assistance from Avery Loftis and I'm

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Speaker 1: Your Host Sarah Spain