1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Floomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: middle income families need help. We're coming out of COPD nineteen. 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: You want to keep our economy strong. When you have 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: an infrastructure build, there's spin off back, there's spinofftion cities 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: from towns all across from America. Floomberg Sound On Politics, 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. So we need 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: to incentivize the manufacturing of chips in America. I do 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: believe that acting state effective, but I think what government's 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: role is to share the client, share the fact, share 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: the benefits. Schloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: Washington is now officially a three ring circus as we 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: add booster shots to the plate which was already crowded 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: with Afghanistan and infrastructure, and we will explore all three 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: issues this hour with our panel Bloomberg Politics. Contribute to 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: Rick Davis as well Max Burns, democratic strategist and founder 16 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: of Third Degree Strategies. Later, we'll talk with Congressman John Garamendi, 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: a Democrat from California who serves on the Armed Forces 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: Committee Armed Services, about the situation in Afghanistan and what 19 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: lawmakers were told before the fall of Cobble, the president 20 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: speaks not about Afghanistan today, but as you were just 21 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: hearing about the fight against COVID eight months after your 22 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: second shot, get a booster shot. These booster shots are free. 23 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: We'll be able to get the booster shots in any 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: one of approximate eight vaccination locations nationwide. It will be easy. 25 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: Just show your vaccination card and you get a booster 26 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: No other idea, no insurance, no state registry requirement. Speaking 27 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: from the East Room of the White House. Eight months 28 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: there's your answer. As we find the headline on the 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: terminal as well, Biden to require nursing homes to vaccinate 30 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: staff to get funding. Requirement will apply to more than 31 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand facilities. As many as one point three million 32 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: employees would fall under these rules. And so this is 33 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: where we begin today with the panel on Sound on 34 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: Bloombery Politics. Contribute to Rick Davis is here along with 35 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: Max Burn's Democratic strategist, founder of Third Degree Strategies. Rick, 36 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with you. This is a president who 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: has been getting a lot of abuse for not taking 38 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: questions on Afghanistan. He didn't take any questions on COVID 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: either was this the right topic today? I think it 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: was a topic that he had to broach. Everybody has 41 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: been debating this issue of whether there was going to 42 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: be a booster requirement. It leaked out of the CDC 43 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: earlier this month, and and and so he had to 44 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: he had to put this as the priority. Um. That 45 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: being said, he hasn't answered a lot of questions related 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, and so I'm sure the staff said, look, 47 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: the minute you open it up to questions, we're gonna 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna lose our momentum on trying to commence people 49 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: to get vaccines and get the booster now. Uh and uh, 50 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: and we're and we have no good explanation to do 51 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: anything more on Afghanistan. So I think they're in a 52 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: trap that is kind of self imposed. I mean, they 53 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: should have been promoting vaccines and and and the booster 54 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: program would have fit right in there if they had 55 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: been a little muscular earlier in his administration. Would this 56 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: have played differently max in a different environment, say, a 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, before the fall of kabbal Or 58 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: Is this the president doing his job? No, this is 59 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: certainly an evolving situation. And I think it's a great point. 60 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: It was just brought up that momentum is so much 61 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: now of what Joe Biden needs to maintain. He has 62 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: on one front, Afghanistan, on the other, COVID bolth sort 63 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: of accelerating and evolving quicker than he would like. And 64 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: we see now in this moment where he's very careful 65 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: to not say anything that may quickly be h obsolete 66 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: or rendered wrong by events. So my guess is there 67 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: will be a larger press conference down the line, but 68 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: right now it's just about responding to these breaking situations. 69 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Of course, UH, COVID itself, the use of masks, and 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: vaccines all come with a certain amount of controversy. Who 71 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: is the audience today, Rick, Was he speaking to those 72 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: who needed a booster or was he speaking to those 73 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: who haven't even got a shot yet. I think it 74 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: was a combination. I think you saw the pomp and 75 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: circumstance of the office. He's using the bully pulpit of 76 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: the presidency to give a message. He gave a full 77 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: throated message about vaccines. In fact, he went much further, 78 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: I thought, than he usually does, talking about how UH 79 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: these can be mandatory and that We've used mandatory vaccinations 80 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: in the past very successfully. Um Um. We've talked about 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,119 Speaker 1: this on this program many times. Why this administration didn't 82 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: go into mandatory vaccinations for government employees a long time ago, 83 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: months ago. Um Is is left that door open. So 84 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: I think he's trying to close that door a little 85 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: bit and at the same time continuing to advocate, uh 86 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: for now people to go out and get their booster. 87 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: But look, he's he's got a full basket. As Max said, 88 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: you know these are these are band aid approaches right now. 89 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the idea that we can methodically 90 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: execute a plan to get people their boosters and to 91 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: continue vaccinations UH and keep the public focus on this 92 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: is being interrupted by events, and that's the biggest challenge 93 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: he's got. I'm gonna ask you both about Afghanistan, but 94 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: I still want to learn a little more about this 95 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: and get your reaction. Max, specifically, with this requirement for 96 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: nursing homes to vaccinate staff, here's the president. If you 97 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: walk into a government office building, you should know the 98 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: federal workers are doing everything possible to keep you safe. 99 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: If you're a veteran seeking care at the VA hospital, 100 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: you should not be at a greater risk walking into 101 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: the hospital and you were outside the hospital. And now 102 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: if you visit, live, or work in a nursing home, 103 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: you should not be at a high risk or contractor 104 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: COVID from unvaccinated employees. This will apply, as I mentioned, 105 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: max to more than fifteen thousand facilities with funding on 106 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: the line. This could be a controversial move, but is 107 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: it the right one? It is absolutely and I think 108 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: there is a growing sense from the Biden administration that 109 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: their initial hesitancy to move on mandates was a mistake 110 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: and now the effort is to influence our institute those 111 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: mandates gradually with different groups. And this nursing home population 112 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: is critical because we saw that just last week a 113 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: survey came out that less than half of nursing home 114 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: aids are fully vaccinated and only three quarters of actual 115 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: internal medicine practice providers at nursing homes are vaccinated. That's 116 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: a critical situation. It was nursing homes that initially saw 117 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: these booms in infection rates at the beginning of the 118 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: pandemic and where an outsized effect has been so getting 119 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: those under control will be critical as DELTA starts picking 120 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: up around the country, and of course we're on the 121 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: threshold of schools reopening, some in the Washington, d c. Area. 122 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: I suspect other areas of the country start as soon 123 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: as next week, and there's an expectation. As I was 124 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: discussing with Carol Master last hour of workers coming back, 125 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: the whole point was that the world was going to 126 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: get back to normal in September when kids go back 127 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: to school, and then the delta showed up, and of 128 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: course things have become much more complicated since then. The 129 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: President did speak, as he has in the past, about 130 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: politicians who don't like masks, don't like mandates for vaccines, 131 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: as he says, to get out of the way. That's 132 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: why today I'm directing the Secretary of Education, an educator himself, 133 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: to take additional steps to protect our children. This includes 134 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: using all of his oversight authorities and legal action, if appropriate, 135 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: against governors who are trying to block and intimidate local 136 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: school officials and educators. And I've said, as I said before, 137 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: if you aren't going to fight COVID ninety, at least 138 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: get out of the way of everyone else who's trying. 139 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: The last time he said that he was referring to 140 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: Rhonda Santis, the governor of Florida, who has a new 141 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: line himself. Politicians want to force you to cover your 142 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: face as a way for them to cover their own assets. 143 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: That's just the true, Rick Davis. That is that the 144 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: sex were pretty clever line I suppose from the governor 145 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: of Florida. But this remains a major problem for this president. Yeah, 146 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: it does. And uh and I think it will continue 147 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: to be as this UH school year opens up, You're 148 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: gonna see more infections. Um, certainly everybody is bracing for 149 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: that in that in that regard, but but also, I mean, 150 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: the president has an opportunity to to to extend those 151 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: vaccine mandates to union employees, teachers, you know, who are 152 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: in those classrooms, which hasn't been done yet. And and 153 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: so if you're going to go all in, go all in, 154 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: put the put the Republicans on the defensive by saying, 155 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna do everything we can to keep 156 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: UH classrooms safe. And that includes requiring people who receive 157 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: federal funds to have vaccines. And that would include school 158 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: administ traitors and teachers. Uh and and and and if 159 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: he wants to pick a fight on masks, probably a good, 160 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: good fight for the president to pick and uh and 161 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: he's certainly got a worthy adversary in in Governor to Santis, 162 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: but he needs to be on the side that everything 163 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: he does is about public health and keeping people healthy 164 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: and keeping those schools open. They both certainly have different 165 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: aims here. Max Burns, the Governor to Santa, is raising 166 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: money on this. But President Biden is obviously running into 167 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: some major obstacles here with with Republican leaders and certain 168 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: parts of the country. Is he taking the right approach 169 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: when it comes to masks? He is, And I think 170 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: what we're seeing from Republicans here is absolutely horrifying. I mean, 171 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: Ron de Santis may come up with some slip messaging 172 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: to sell shirts, but COVID doesn't care about how good 173 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: your messaging is. You're not spinning your way out of 174 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: a body count that is rapidly expanding. And it's funny 175 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: for a lot of these Republicans who have looked down 176 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: their nose at the Afghan government and said, what kind 177 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 1: of people just surrender when your population is in danger? 178 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: This is exactly in a lot of ways what the Santis, 179 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: what Greg Abbott are advising people to do. They're saying 180 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: this will be with us forever. Let's get rid of masks, 181 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: let's not push vaccines anymore, Let's just surrender to new reality. 182 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: And what is that accept a complete unwillingness to fight. Rick. 183 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: I'm glad that Max mentioned Greg Abbott. This was a 184 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: story that broke right towards the end of our program yesterday, 185 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: and I'd love to hear you reflect on the impact 186 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: of this news. A fully vaccinated governor of Texas who 187 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: doesn't want any part of these mandates from Joe Biden 188 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: gets COVID anyway. Yeah, Max hit it right on the head. 189 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: I mean, like this, the COVID has absolutely no partisan appeal. 190 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: It is going to hit everybody. And I think what 191 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: we've learned is the vaccines we got early last year 192 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: this year aren't aren't gonna last through the year, and 193 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna need those boosters and and even governors, Republican 194 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: governors can't protect themselves from the from the delta variant. 195 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: And I do think that's part of the messages like 196 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: pick the ground you're gonna fight. On the ground that 197 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: that Biden seems to be starting to fight on is 198 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: I'm for public health, I'm for science, I'm gonna I'm 199 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: gonna do what i need to do to protect everybody, 200 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: whether you're in Texas or in New York State. And 201 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: and and let the chips fall, and and and you 202 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: can't play politics. Don't attack governors, don't attack you know, 203 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: the people delivering these things, just just without any bias. 204 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: Before public health. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on 205 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio headline on the terminal 206 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: collapse and conquests. And this is not about a video game. 207 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: The latest from Afghanistan with reporting by the New York 208 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: Times about the Taliban strategy that seized Afghanistan. A remarkable 209 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: read about the incredible speed with which all of this happened. 210 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: As I read from the Times, each surrender small or 211 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: large hand of the Taliban, more weapons and vehicles, and 212 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: vitally more control over roads and highways, giving insurgents freedom 213 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: to move rapidly and collect the next surrenders as the 214 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: security forces were progressively caught off from ammunition, fuel, food, 215 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: and salaries. The President didn't talk about it today, he 216 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: was talking about COVID, but you better believe they were 217 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: talking about this at the Pentagon A briefing from the 218 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: Defense Secretary as well as General Mark Millie, who made 219 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: clear that no one knew how fast this would happen. 220 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: The time frame of a rapid collapse that was widely 221 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: estimated and ranged from weeks to months and even years 222 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 1: following our departure. There was nothing did I or anyone 223 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: else saw that indicated a collapse of this army in 224 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: this government in eleven days. The Chairman of the Joint 225 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: Chiefs of Staff speaking a short time ago from the Pentagon, 226 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: and we're joined now by Anthony Cortisman, middle East policy 227 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies who 228 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: served as a consultant on Afghanistan tooth the Pentagon as 229 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: well as the Department of State. Anthony, welcome back to 230 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. We're glad to have you today. We understand 231 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: that the airport is secure, but there are still many 232 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: questions about how this happened so fast. And to hear 233 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs make clear that even 234 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: he was surprised is not the most comforting moment. No, 235 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: it's not comforting England. I think that some of this 236 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: is probably going to turn out to be a bit 237 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: of political spin. Uh, you don't do intelligence assessments without 238 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: looking at a range of contingencies. If you're competent, you 239 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: don't act as a prophet. And anyone who had seen 240 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: this build up, and it did basically over a period 241 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: more than a decade, had to realize that you could 242 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: have a catalytic collapse of the Afghan forces in the government. 243 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: I think that in retrospect it wasn't predictable. You couldn't 244 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: say it was probable. But if people really get access 245 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: to the intelligence estimates, they're going to find out that 246 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: people warned that it was possible. So who's not being honest? 247 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: I think really, for a very long time we have 248 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: essentially use public relations efforts to make claims about the 249 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: effectiveness of the Afghan government and Afghan forces. The people 250 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: on the ground simply didn't believe. Some of this is 251 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: very technical. You have to read through government reports from 252 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: good fact, the Special Inspector General for Afghan Reconstruction. But 253 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: this was never an effective Afghan force. It was much 254 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: smaller than the figures people who quoted. It basically had 255 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: very sharp limits that could be overcome as long as 256 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: there were US air power and US terms. But those 257 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: capabilities were with drawn, and one of your critical problems 258 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: was that the political leadership or you had a government 259 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: that was so delighted, so corrupt, that the Taliban were 260 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: carrying out of political war, which in some ways was 261 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: more successful than their military one. So was this a 262 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: major failure of intelligence. I think the failure wasn't intelligence. 263 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: I think the failure was political. I think with a 264 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: command fit, there were many people who actually reported, really 265 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: from about two thousand and seven on about the level 266 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: of weaknesses and issues involved. And the reporting that came 267 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: out Congressional groups like Cigar Special Inspector General or the 268 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: Department of Defense lead inspector generals gave very clear warnings 269 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: about how bad this situation was years before this collapsed 270 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: in place. The officials who were speaking today at the 271 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: Pentagon were very clear about saving time for a post 272 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: mortem until later, that we must focus on evacuations and 273 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: controlling the airport. Do you believe the Taliban will allow 274 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: the US to operate until the thirty one of August 275 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: so we can at least get all the Americans out. 276 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: I think you'll get the Americans out. It's very difficult. 277 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: We don't have of the transportation now to protect people 278 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: getting to the airport, and there are a lot of 279 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: American contractors, not just officials, aid workers, civilians. Exactly what's 280 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: going to happen is difficult, but just remember people now 281 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: are focusing on the evacuation of Americans and perhaps sixty 282 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand Afghans. What nobody has yet is focused 283 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: on as the country of thirty seven people, it's very young. 284 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: You have a lot of newly educated urban people living 285 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: in a modern economy. We've just seen the government collapse, 286 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: and that government not only was corrupt, but of its 287 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: income came from aid. We've just essentially holded Paul Taliban 288 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: or government access to that aid. So this crisis is 289 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: going to get a lot worse. And what you're seeing 290 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: now in the evacuation is almost a minor issue compared 291 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: to the thirties six million or more Afghans that are 292 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: now going to have to live with the Taliban government. 293 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: Anthony Cordesman at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, 294 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: we thank you for your insights. I'm Joe Matthew. This 295 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg and we bring in Congressman John Garamendi, a 296 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,959 Speaker 1: Democrat from California, who has had his I focused on 297 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: the situation in Afghanistan as a member of the House 298 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: Armed Services Committee as well, focused on wildfires that have 299 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: been burning in northern California and are growing worse. Congressman, 300 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. It's good to be with you. 301 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: There's so many questions about who knew what and when 302 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: an Afghanistan Congressman, and why the administration appeared to be 303 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: caught off guard by the speed with which the Taliban 304 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: retook control. You serve, of course on the House Armed 305 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: Services Committee, and I wonder where you briefed and it 306 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: answer this and did you see it coming? It was 307 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: rewarded that the band was prepared to advance after the 308 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: American soldiers left. We all knew that that would likely occur. 309 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: There was no indication that the until the provincial capitals 310 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: just began to fall one after another, most of them 311 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: without a fight at all. The Taliban simply walked in 312 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: and the Afghan government, the Ghanhi government just disappeared, and 313 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: then it was kabble what to do about Kabul and 314 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 1: the departure of Ghani and his family and the total 315 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: disappearance of the government. The soldiers, the police just disappeared. 316 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: That was totally unexpected. One month ago, Ghani and Abdulah 317 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: met with the President and they also met with the 318 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: leadership of Congress. I was at that luncheon, and these 319 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: guys were thumping their chest and boasting about how they 320 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: could do whatever needed to be done. All they needed 321 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: was American money going forward to pay the soldiers, American intelligence, 322 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: which we continued to provide. And the day before Ghani left, 323 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: we were providing close air support and attacking the Taliban 324 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: from the air. So we did not Certainly I did not, 325 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: and I don't I believe the American government did not 326 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: expect Gani simply to up and leave. I know you're 327 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: also a chair of the House Subcommittee on Readiness. Was 328 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: this withdrawal a failure of preparation, or, as Jake Sullivan suggested, 329 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: this is the kind of chaos that comes at the 330 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: conclusion of a civil war. I think there was more 331 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: than adequate planning, and the events unfolded far more rapidly 332 00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: than anybody anticipated. Now we're forty eight hours into this 333 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: and the situation has reversed at the airport, and that 334 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: speaks to the ability of the American military to move 335 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: quickly in a situation that had rapidly well collapsed. Well, 336 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: the Armed Services Committee, Congressman hold hearings on this and 337 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: is it realistic to promise our Afghan allies safe passage 338 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: out of the country at this point. It's going to 339 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: be difficult, and that really depends upon what is happening 340 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: right now, and that is the Taliban government, such as 341 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: it is, seems to be allowing Afghans to exit the 342 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: country in three ways, one at the airport in Cobble 343 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: and secondly two border crossings are now open, just opened 344 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: in the last hours. Once again, this is a very 345 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: unstable situation and uncertain as to what will take place. 346 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: We have we're confident that foreigners will be leaving once 347 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: the Taliban government is established. I would hope that the 348 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: American government would not recognize the Taliban, but that the 349 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: military and other parts of the American government engaged. I'm 350 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: absolutely certainly American military is engaged with the Taliban military. 351 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: As we speak, we're talking with Congressman John Garamendi, Democrat 352 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: from California. Congressman, I feel like we need to talk 353 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: about what's going on where you are right now, and 354 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: I appreciate you're taking my questions on Afghanistan. But here 355 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: you are in northern California, and we should let our 356 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: listeners know that your home where you are now is 357 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: inundated with smoke, and I know thousands are being evacuated 358 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: because of wildfires up there. I understand thirty thousand acres burned, 359 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: zero percent contained. Are you safe where you are right now? 360 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: We are right now, but there's no part of northern California, well, 361 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: no part of California north or south that is safe. 362 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: We are experiencing extreme drought. Everything is very very dry, 363 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: and the winds are guaranteed to pick up. The north 364 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: wind that usually occurs in late August, September, October will 365 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: arrive as it has every year, and there's no place 366 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: in California that will be safe. The Santa Ana winds 367 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: in southern California, they will return as they do every 368 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: late summer and fall and the and and so we're 369 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: in for a very dangerous period here in California, as 370 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: is the West, and in the larger context, the entire 371 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: world is in for a very very dangerous future. Congressman, 372 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about resources. You have sought to 373 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: deal with with water resources as well as efforts to 374 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: come back climate change. The Infrastructure bill that's been moving 375 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: through Capitol Hill bring those resources to California to deal 376 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: with us. The bill that we passed out of the 377 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: House of Representatives almost three months ago does exactly that. 378 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: It is totally oriented towards the climate crisis. The Senate 379 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: bill goes heads in the direction of the climate crisis, 380 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: but is it's not enough. It does not move America 381 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: away from a petroleum based economy into an economy based 382 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: upon renewables. The things that we need to do with 383 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: electrical grids, the things we need to do with green 384 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: energy systems of all kinds are there, but they're not 385 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: robust enough in the Senate bill. Nor is there sufficient 386 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: direction to the economy and to the governments of America 387 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: to move in that direction. Uh. There are are in 388 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: the Senate bill some very good things for Western America, 389 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: and it's the Western water programs that deal with the 390 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: necessity of storage, aquifer storage, the underground water basins, surface storage, 391 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: off stream surface storage systems. UH. That is in the 392 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: Senate bill, and frankly, it's much bigger than we had 393 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: in the House. Build and We're thankful for that from 394 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: the perspective of California. But the reality is that we 395 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: need to go all out, not just all out to 396 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: a green, renewable economy and all of the infrastructure to 397 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: make that happen. We have to go a hundred percent 398 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,239 Speaker 1: of there is such a thing and and get on 399 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: with it. There's not much time. Commerce from John Garamendi 400 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: with US Democrat from California here on Bloomberg sound On. 401 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: We thank you, Congressman. You're listening to Bloomberg sound on. 402 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on bloom Bird Radio. Can we get everyone 403 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: out of cobble? It sounds like a yes if you're 404 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: an American. As the U. S. Military maintains control of 405 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: the airport h KAI as they call it. We heard 406 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: a short time ago from Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin. 407 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: We will continue to coordinate and de conflict with with 408 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: the Taliban and make sure that uh those folks, those 409 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: those people that need to get to the airfield have 410 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: the right credentials uh to to insure passage. And and 411 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: the Taliban will has been checking those credentials and it's 412 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: if they have them, they have allowed them to pass. 413 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: Sect death at the Pentagon using one of my favorite 414 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: military terms, d conflict, and I guess, like anything in life, 415 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: it all depends on your paperwork, even when it comes 416 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: to the Taliban. Now, we've also seen reports today of 417 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: American troops firing warning shots over the heads of people 418 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: trying to line over at checkpoint to get into the airport. 419 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: Some of them were US citizens, which gives us a 420 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: sense of how tenuous this whole situation is. Let's talk 421 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: to the panel about it. Bloomberg Politics contribute to Rick 422 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: Davis is here along with Democratic strategist Max Burns. Rick, 423 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: we seem to be holding the line at the airport. 424 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: It's still unclear, though, just how long the Taliban will 425 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: allow us to operate. Even Jake Sullivan couldn't answer that 426 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: yesterday is our operation at their mercy right now. Well, 427 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: I think as long as UH Defense Secretary Austin thinks 428 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: that they can continue to your favorite word, deconflict, and negotiate, 429 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure with the Taliban for more time. UM. I 430 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: can't imagine it's not in the Taliban's interest to allow 431 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: UM the US operations to continue. They probably don't have 432 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: it in their self interests to want to get in 433 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: a fight over the airport. But but I think what 434 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: Tony Cortisman said earlier in your program is that this 435 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: crisis will only get much worse. We we may actually 436 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: see it at the height of the best it's gonna get. 437 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: And as you point out, the Taliband's patients will run 438 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: out and are we ready to be completely gone at 439 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: that point? Um, I must say this may be going 440 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: down in history. Is one of the worst august for 441 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: a new administration that has ever been scripted. Wow, Max, 442 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: you heard my conversation with the Congressman John Garamendi. He 443 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: sounded a little bit like General Mark Millie, who we 444 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: heard from earlier, suggesting that of all the options given 445 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: to the Pentagon, no one suggested that this would unfold 446 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: in less than two weeks time. What does that say 447 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: about our intelligence community once again seeming to be caught 448 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: off guard? If that is true, which it seems to be. Uh, 449 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: this should outrage the American people. I mean, for twenty years, 450 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: the military the intelligence community have demanded more money, more resources, 451 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: more access to American civil liberties, all under the claim 452 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: that this was necessary to gather the intelligence needed to 453 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: know what was going on in the war on terror. 454 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: This withdrawal shows us that for all that money, it 455 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: didn't bring us a single inch closer to knowing what 456 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: was going on. Our intelligence was as bad this week 457 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: as it was in two thousand and one. I was 458 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: mentioning a New York Times article earlier, Collapse and Conquest, 459 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: which digs into the speed with which the Taliban pulled 460 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: this off and how the Taliban pulled this off, as 461 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: I read organized, apparently more than some Americans were at 462 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: the time, received money, supplies, and support from Pakistan, Russia, 463 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: and Iran that included as many as twenty thousand Afghan 464 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: volunteers sent from Pakistan and thousands more Afghan villagers who 465 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: joined the militants when it became clear they were winning. 466 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, this was happening in real time. It may 467 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: have been a game day call for the Taliban, But 468 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: what were we paying attention to? Yeah, that's a really 469 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: great question. This has been predicted for some time by 470 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: many people in the foreign policy national security community that 471 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: the minute we signal that we're leaving, we're basically handing 472 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 1: over the future of this country to the Taliban. And 473 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: the only debate was how long it was gonna take 474 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: them to to take over that. The debate never was 475 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: that the administration in Kabul could actually manage that country, 476 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: and and and and keep the Taliban at bay and 477 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: so um it was our own policy that sort of 478 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: lit the fire that now burned through Afghanistan so quickly. 479 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: I mean, what would you expect for the neighbors to do, 480 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: then make common cause with the people who ultimately are 481 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: going to run that country. And so this is the 482 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: problem when we went enter into these kinds of um 483 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: um policies where we declare defeat in advance of making 484 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: arrangements for the survival of the people who have helped 485 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: us in that country, and and and and and now 486 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: we're seeing just a level of incompetence that I think 487 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: will actually have potentially big effects in the midterm elections. Um. 488 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: One thing that Biden seemed to have going into this 489 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: was a level of competence with his administration to get 490 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: things done public health, uh included this now rips that 491 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: band aid off and and he's going to get graded 492 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: and right now graded poorly by the American public for 493 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: having a competent administration. Well let's go there, Max Burns. 494 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: We also talked with Congress from Garamani about infrastructure. There's 495 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: been a lot of questions here inside the Beltway about 496 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: how this could affect that. I know they're not related, 497 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: but when when it comes to the credibility of an administration, well, 498 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: this impact the level of influence the White House can 499 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: have on Capitol Hill with big issues like infrastructure, Well, 500 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: I think justified or not. The reality is that most 501 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: voters don't make voting decisions based on foreign policy. We 502 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: have a lot of survey data that shows that that's 503 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: the case, that this was a decision that in any case, 504 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: over se of the country's support it, and I think 505 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: we see from the snap responses to the President's remarks 506 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: earlier this week that well, this is certainly more catastrophe 507 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: I think than Americans have seen up close since the 508 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: height of Syria and the Obama administration. That most Americans 509 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: understand that this is the right decision and are willing 510 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: to just sort of separate those issues in their minds. 511 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: Spending some time with Rick Davis and Max Burns our 512 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: panel as we round out Bloomberg Sound On Today, your 513 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: take on that, Rick, in a real sense, I know 514 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: this has become a bit of a talking point, but 515 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: once credibility is called into question, does it not bleed 516 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: into other issues? Yeah? No, I think Max is right 517 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: in the sense that the policy itself of withdrawal from 518 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: Afghanistan is got popular support. Whether it's right or wrong, 519 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: that's that's just a fat and and so exercising that policy, 520 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was attractive to the administration to to 521 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: you know, sort of solidify their base and and talk 522 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: to new voters. The problem is you have to do 523 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: it in a way that actually looks like you know 524 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: what you're doing. And so the foreign policy is not competence. 525 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: Competence is a domestic policy issue, and it's calls into 526 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: the question, um, other things you're doing. And frankly, even 527 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 1: today's press conference on COVID and talking about needing booster shots, 528 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people are gonna be scratched your 529 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: heads and well, why didn't we know we're gonna need 530 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: booster shots, you know, when we got the first set 531 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: of shots, and and of course there's probably no way 532 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: to have known that. But all these things now we're 533 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: going to be put into the the the coloration of 534 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: um whether or not this administration can actually shoot straight 535 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: and UM and I think that this will have some 536 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: impact on an incredibly important week next week for this administration, 537 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: where they have up in the House both votes on UH, 538 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: the the Human Infrastructure and the Heart Infrastructure packages, that 539 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: that within the Democratic Party, they don't seem to have 540 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: a sense is to what they're gonna do, and this 541 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: administration needs a win, and my suspicion is they'll be 542 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: enormous pressure put on Congress to give them that win 543 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: early next week. And to think these are all colliding 544 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: in August of all months, Max, you're a Democratic strategist. 545 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: There's been a lot of criticism against the communications apparatus 546 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: inside the White House with regard to Afghanistan, with regard 547 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: to COVID in some cases, as Rick was just suggesting, 548 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: does someone get fired after all this? I don't think 549 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: we're at the firing point yet, if only because Joe 550 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: Biden likes to keep a close team UH and barring 551 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: any sort of open lie or misconduct, you're not going 552 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: to see people get the boot over what I think 553 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: Joe Biden recognizes is a really almost unwinnable messaging situation. 554 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: But that is sort of to go back to a 555 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: great point made earlier the prosecution of Afghanistan as a 556 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: public relations exercise is what brought us to this point, 557 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: and I think the fact that it fell so quickly 558 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: has caught the White House completely off guard. Joe Biden 559 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: did not to say anything unless he knew what he 560 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: was saying was correct, and unfortunately, with a fast moving 561 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: situation like that, it meant that there was a long 562 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: stretch there where Joe Biden said nothing at a time 563 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: when people would have liked to hear from them. I 564 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: don't mean to be over dramatic or too cute with 565 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: the firing question. Maybe a better way to ask it, 566 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: Max is is it time for a big reboot? Does 567 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: this communications uh team at the White House need to 568 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: go on a retreat and start doing this differently? I 569 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: think absolutely there's going to be some internal conversations there. 570 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: The Press Secretary Jen Psaki going on vacation the week 571 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: of the withdrawal certainly did not play well, but I 572 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: think that that's also largely very internal conversation. If you 573 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: ask americans outside Beltway what the most memorable part of 574 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: this week was, I doubt one of them will mention 575 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: Jen Psaki is away message in their comments, but it 576 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: is something I think that they need to work on 577 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: and they need to show some more discipline in being 578 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: flexible in how they message in a crisis. Rick, I'm 579 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: guessing that you wouldn't have put the away message on 580 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: your email and you would have taken the phone calls 581 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 1: no matter where you were. Yeah, I would have taken 582 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: the calls. I would have come back that morning. I mean, 583 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 1: what kind of vacation did she have in the midst 584 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: of all this. I'm sure it was miserable. And so so, 585 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: you know, just do what you think is instinctively right. 586 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: And and look, this is decades of UM trying to 587 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: punch up a regime in in Afghanistan of our own 588 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: choosing who were corrupt and didn't do a good job. 589 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: And I don't think anybody who's visited Afghanistan came back 590 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 1: ever with the two previous presidents saying, Wow, we can 591 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: really trust these guys. I know, I spent a lot 592 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: of time with John McKay and after Afghanistan, and he 593 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: just shrugged his shoulder and say, I hope these guys 594 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: know what they're doing, man, Rick Davis, Max Burns, great talk. 595 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: Thanks to you both. Remembering that John McCain called off 596 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: his campaign to come back to town to solve the economy. 597 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: Remember that far back Bloomberg. Sound on for Wednesday in 598 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: the books. I'll meet you back here tomorrow for the 599 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.