Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories Une Dune.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Hello, that's messed up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Lisa Traeger and my name, as always
Speaker 1: is Kara Klank Lisa.
Speaker 3: What's up?
Speaker 2: Well, we have to tell them it's an SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: We talk about an episode, the crime a guest.
Speaker 1: You guys don't know that by now it's an episode.
Speaker 2: Come on, maybe someone's just a big fan of only
Speaker 2: this episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in case you are starting here on this episode
Speaker 1: in the thirties, we are an SVU podcast. We dissect
Speaker 1: an episode from the show, then we talk about the
Speaker 1: true crime it was based on, and we interview a
Speaker 1: guest associated with the episode in the episode. Usually and
Speaker 1: we got a hunk this time. Yeah, baby, huge news
Speaker 1: for us. We did finally go see Zola after Ye,
Speaker 1: that's what I was going to get into. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to talk about Zola that I forgot to introduce
Speaker 1: what our podcast is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sola was incredible filmmaking and anyone cool that I
Speaker 2: run into has already seen it.
Speaker 3: We saw it.
Speaker 2: Opening night right well with La It's like weird where
Speaker 2: things are before them, But it was fun, you know,
Speaker 2: Mom's day out. And the best news is there is
Speaker 2: an Sview cameo in Sola, Officer cal Doon aka Ariel Statuel,
Speaker 2: and he had a nice little sex scene, a little part,
Speaker 2: and it was thrilling to see him. I wish we
Speaker 2: got to see him more, but you know, yeah, we
Speaker 2: were busy seeing amazing outfits and sad scenes and just
Speaker 2: amazing filmmaking. I would say, yeah, I was like, I
Speaker 2: truly can't stop thinking about it. I think about it
Speaker 2: all the time, Like it was so good, I'm going again. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was seeing I was like, I was like, I
Speaker 2: never go see movies twice, but I would easily go
Speaker 2: see that movie again.
Speaker 3: Never you've never seen a movie twice, not never, but
Speaker 3: like I can name it. In the theater.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the theater, I saw Sense and Sensibility twice.
Speaker 3: Never seen that one so sad, and I honestly can't
Speaker 3: think of another one.
Speaker 1: I can't think of another time I've paid to go
Speaker 1: see a movie like two times in the theater.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was acting shocked. But I don't know if
Speaker 2: I've done that, you know, but I've gone. I used
Speaker 2: to rent the same movie constantly from Blockbuster.
Speaker 1: Oh you know what other movie I've seen twice? That
Speaker 1: movie Playing by Heart. I was telling you about that.
Speaker 1: You were like, what the hell is this movie? Hopefully
Speaker 1: this is another Chipmunk effect. And everybody writes me and
Speaker 1: tells me how much they love this fucking movie. But
Speaker 1: it's one of those ensemble movies where everybody has their
Speaker 1: own storyline and then you kind of find out how
Speaker 1: everybody's together. And it's early Angelina Jolee like it might
Speaker 1: be the first thing I ever saw Angelina Jolee in,
Speaker 1: and like Ryan Philippe and all these people.
Speaker 3: So anyway, love that movie. And I saw twice in
Speaker 3: the theater.
Speaker 2: I when you said the Playing of the Heart or whatever,
Speaker 2: I thought, Crimes of the Heart.
Speaker 3: Do you know about that one? No, what's that?
Speaker 2: It's a movie that I think was successful, but it
Speaker 2: is a play. And in high school theater I did
Speaker 2: a scene from it. I could tell my theater teacher
Speaker 2: was impressed. Like I think, like Shirley McLean's in it
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, when I look at the poster of
Speaker 1: this movie. It's it's Diane Keaton, Jessica Lang and Sissy Spacek.
Speaker 3: I mean icons only this is like, I gotta watch this.
Speaker 3: And you know I have worked with Jessica Lang before,
Speaker 3: no big deals me. I excuse me. I know in
Speaker 3: Horace and Pete, I was at the bar and I
Speaker 3: have lines.
Speaker 2: With Jessica Lang like she tells me to shut the
Speaker 2: fuck up or something, or like you dumb bitch, like
Speaker 2: she says something.
Speaker 3: Mean to me. No, what was she like in real life?
Speaker 2: She was really in character and like focused, and so
Speaker 2: I wasn't like paling around with her on set, sure,
Speaker 2: but very kind and perfect like amazing, not a rude
Speaker 2: thing to say about her, but we didn't like vibe.
Speaker 2: But I did see her napping on a little couch
Speaker 2: in some hallway and it was a really amazing experience, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: the best in the world are working for sag minimum
Speaker 2: and sleeping on a couch to make something good. So
Speaker 2: if anyone's a dick on set, it makes no sense
Speaker 2: to me because I'm I'm watching Jessica Lang nap on
Speaker 2: a random loose couch. So and that's the same, like
Speaker 2: everyone amazing that I've worked with is always like the best.
Speaker 3: It's always like the people not that good.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like Steve BUSHEMI was on that set
Speaker 2: Alan Alda, Edie Falco. It was an incredible experience. The
Speaker 2: great snow to act. Yeah, I wish Louie wasn't a
Speaker 2: dumb bitch so I could brag about it more.
Speaker 3: But it was an amazing career moment in my life.
Speaker 1: I think we all wish Louis wasn't a dumb bitch.
Speaker 1: I mean, I nailed it, and not to I do
Speaker 1: have another brag. Okay, I did a comedy show last
Speaker 1: night at Diynosta. Yes, tell Us, tell Us. I was
Speaker 1: going to ask you how it went.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2: I mean, I am still high off of it, honestly,
Speaker 2: like I can't. I was the last person to leave,
Speaker 2: and then I stood with audience members in the parking
Speaker 2: garage refusing to leave, like I just wanted to save
Speaker 2: her every moment. But Benito Skinner and Mary Beth Burone
Speaker 2: had this show, and Maggie Rogers was on one of
Speaker 2: the shows, and she sounded like when she started to
Speaker 2: she was so cool backstage and so nice and fun.
Speaker 2: But then I forgot, and then the moment she started
Speaker 2: to sing, I couldn't believe I was in her presence
Speaker 2: like she sounded.
Speaker 3: She has such a beautiful voice. Really, and we were
Speaker 3: all upset. So what was funny?
Speaker 2: Meg Stalter was on the show and I DMed her
Speaker 2: earlier in the day going can't wait to see you
Speaker 2: and Maggie Rogers, and she thought I was kidding, and
Speaker 2: she goes, that's a funny joke.
Speaker 3: Why would she say that?
Speaker 2: And then she said when she walked into the green room,
Speaker 2: she fully gasped and realized I was not kidding.
Speaker 3: She didn't know Maggie was on the show.
Speaker 1: No, no one really knew, and she thought I was
Speaker 1: just joshing with her, like pulling a prank. She was
Speaker 1: like Lisa Sile assumed she saw the promo. There wasn't
Speaker 1: a promo, nothing was announced.
Speaker 3: Oh really Yeah. And then Langston Kerman couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: I told him he was like I listened to her
Speaker 2: album all the time, Like we were all we all
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it, Like she sounded me, I mean it
Speaker 2: was I can't wait for her new album.
Speaker 3: Amazing, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Well, Lisa stars star studded yeah, it was star studded.
Speaker 3: And then there were people on that show.
Speaker 2: We were at the same July fourth party and I
Speaker 2: didn't even know because I got so anxious that I
Speaker 2: had to leave.
Speaker 3: I think everybody can relate to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, we're both really social, chatty people. I
Speaker 2: didn't expect to get tired out socializing. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: are some substances I took added to that, but I
Speaker 2: had to leave.
Speaker 1: Sure, And also just like we're a little out of practice.
Speaker 1: I mean we are easing into like the full social calendar.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would give yourself a break.
Speaker 1: I gave myself. I just I expected to be like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna rage all night, you know, fun on her lawn.
Speaker 3: And then at eleven, I was like, can I get
Speaker 3: a ride home? Please? I can't. I can't, I can't.
Speaker 3: I can't be here anymore.
Speaker 1: I cannot, like ask how someone knows the hosts of
Speaker 1: the party. Again, I like, I don't have it in me.
Speaker 1: I had a cute Fourth of July where Rosie went
Speaker 1: to a party with all older boys and just totally
Speaker 1: threw herself into their posse, and it was gave me
Speaker 1: hope for her future.
Speaker 3: I miss her every time I hear about her.
Speaker 4: Ire.
Speaker 3: Well, we're going to get you two together. But I
Speaker 3: did see little Oscar yesterday. Oh you did.
Speaker 1: He's getting he's looking like a real Yeah, he's looking
Speaker 1: like he's getting cuter and a little easier by the day.
Speaker 1: So hopefully a month from now he's going to be
Speaker 1: gorgeous and easy.
Speaker 3: We do have to.
Speaker 1: Wrap up, but I wanted to talk about how Mrushka
Speaker 1: Hargita keeps fucking breaking her body.
Speaker 3: What's going on? Like, no idea. We just brained another
Speaker 3: ankle and was like, this is my summer.
Speaker 4: Look.
Speaker 1: I'm like, didn't you just recover from like a knee thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, drink Alcia. I have no idea. I
Speaker 1: don't know what we need to get Mushka on that
Speaker 1: bonivo tip. I don't know what's going on, Lisa.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what did I burp out?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I absolutely need to call you out that.
Speaker 5: You were like, I don't know if I've ever seen
Speaker 5: a movie twice in the theaters, and like ten episodes ago,
Speaker 5: you were like, how have you never seen a movie
Speaker 5: twice in the theaters, Kara, I've done it with.
Speaker 1: This movie, this movie, this movie and you like listed
Speaker 1: them really no, no.
Speaker 2: Like I've watched Like if I like a movie, I'll
Speaker 2: watch it dozens of times and it's always on.
Speaker 5: I do that Kara sense and Sensibility fact. Because the
Speaker 5: pod No recollection, that's all.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, year one, we're already repeating stories.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do. I did want to add.
Speaker 2: I went to wildly, a six am soul cycle. I'm
Speaker 2: not a morning person, but it was a Rihanna ride
Speaker 2: and I had to do it and it was perfect.
Speaker 2: And if anyone out there ever sees on any schedule
Speaker 2: Rihanna music, workout go, it's the perfect music.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like powerful, inspirational, fast memories like set, it's just
Speaker 2: they do We.
Speaker 3: Found love of course.
Speaker 1: It's like my favorite. That's like my favorite. I love
Speaker 1: that song. I mean that's like post pandemic.
Speaker 2: Like dream is like me being in a pack dance
Speaker 2: floor and that song comes on and yeah, everyone jumps
Speaker 2: up and down and Henson like that's what I want.
Speaker 2: I also want to I we got to do it
Speaker 2: Megan's wedding. But my dream was you know that song
Speaker 2: where it was like shut up and dance with me.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, my at my wedding. That was the
Speaker 3: hugest song.
Speaker 2: Well, I always said, I go, I want to dance
Speaker 2: to this at a wedding. I'm like, this is the
Speaker 2: perfect dance wedding song. And then it played at our
Speaker 2: friend's wedding and I was like, my dreams are coming true.
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of a conversation with someone
Speaker 1: at that wedding and that song came on and I went,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't and I just like ran away
Speaker 1: because I had to go to the dance floor.
Speaker 3: Now, BA Bride is cool. Probably you could be like peace.
Speaker 3: I didn't even want to.
Speaker 2: Invite you, you dumb bitch, and I still have to say,
Speaker 2: you look incredible.
Speaker 3: Let's get started. Sorry, let's go soul cycle. We can
Speaker 3: never keep it short.
Speaker 1: I don't know why you try, Hannah.
Speaker 2: All right, So today we're doing Rapists Anonymous and it's
Speaker 2: season fifteen. It is episode nine. Hulu says, episode eight.
Speaker 2: Shut your mouths. We don't care.
Speaker 3: We don't know.
Speaker 2: It's like Hulu has a vendetta against us in this podcast.
Speaker 2: But the episode starts out so exciting. I love seeing
Speaker 2: the detectives on their off hours and they're at a
Speaker 2: Crew dinner at Marishka's and Cassidy is there, short curly hair,
Speaker 2: Benson Amorro, Melinda Warner iced tea, and Kragan's with a
Speaker 2: date named Eileen.
Speaker 1: So pretty exciting. Is this even a holiday? I think
Speaker 1: they're just having dinner, which is they're just it's they're
Speaker 1: doing a rare glimpse into And coincidentally, they just did
Speaker 1: like a wrap photo lo now of Marishka having all
Speaker 1: the cast like over to her house and like the big, big,
Speaker 1: high up people and it was like a long, twenty
Speaker 1: person dinner and it looked nice.
Speaker 2: She's always with Allie Wentworth and Ali went Worth, his
Speaker 2: best friends with like the Seinfeld and anyone?
Speaker 3: Who is she? Why is she friends with everyone I
Speaker 3: want to be friends with?
Speaker 1: She was an actress. I don't think she acts much anymore.
Speaker 1: But she's married to George Stefanopolis. I think, yeah, the
Speaker 1: answer is nothing, Kara. Yeah, it's just another loose person
Speaker 1: who no one cares about, you know, like, how are
Speaker 1: they friends with all of high society?
Speaker 3: I just don't get.
Speaker 1: Itanopolis is a pretty big personality. But and then Melinda's
Speaker 1: being wild and she's just like she's a lesbian he's
Speaker 1: Frans and a murder weapon was found in his anal canal,
Speaker 1: and then I teased talking about necrophilia, and Benson's like,
Speaker 1: let's relax, guys, Let's just have a nice dinner and
Speaker 1: not talk about work. And then it is silence, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of like me and care if someone says,
Speaker 1: let's not talk shit about someone, we have nothing to say.
Speaker 3: We just like have a positive time where we like
Speaker 3: don't talk shit.
Speaker 1: We're just like super nice. We're like absolutely and then nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure there's no one that's listening to this, like, wait,
Speaker 2: where's Rollins? But they tell us anyways, So we see
Speaker 2: Rollins and they jump to an AA style type meeting
Speaker 2: in a dark basement. There's desserts and a woman named
Speaker 2: Lena is talking. She's blonde with short hair, and then
Speaker 2: there's a man next to Rollins with a douche lord
Speaker 2: hat and Lena's talking how she's been sober for almost
Speaker 2: a year and the douche lord hat is Nate, Lena's
Speaker 2: first sponsor.
Speaker 3: In La and Rollins and Nate smile at each other.
Speaker 2: So you know, if you get vibes, you see what's up.
Speaker 2: So back to dinner, Cassidy lets us know that Olivia
Speaker 2: is now going to be sergeant and that she got
Speaker 2: forty eighth out of eight thousand on her test, which
Speaker 2: is impressive. And then Benson's like, yay, Cassidy is going
Speaker 2: to be a detective again. But at IAB and everyone's like,
Speaker 2: oh Grace, yeah, but tomorrow's a gentleman. He's like, that's great, congrats,
Speaker 2: this is awesome. We cut back to the AA crew
Speaker 2: and Nate owns a bar, so that's weird.
Speaker 3: Natea's douche lord guy.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, Nate is a sponsor, owns the bar,
Speaker 2: and he's with two hot blondes, Lena and Rollins, and
Speaker 2: they order wings for the table, and then we see
Speaker 2: a bald man with a beard like, you know, someone
Speaker 2: recently did a joke where they called this hairstyle a
Speaker 2: flesh covered Yamaica, which I thought was funny. I wish
Speaker 2: I remembered the comedian's name, but it was not an
Speaker 2: original thought. So they're all sitting there talking and Lena
Speaker 2: is touching the bald man's upper thigh very sexually. We
Speaker 2: later learned his name's Gene. I'll start calling him Gene
Speaker 2: instead of that bald man over there, So she's like
Speaker 2: rubbing his upper thigh pretty sexually. And now Rollins and
Speaker 2: Nate are getting really sexy and close, and he's like,
Speaker 2: thanks for coming to aa. I know that's not your thing,
Speaker 2: and she's like I can still learn, and Rollins is like,
Speaker 2: we decided last time this was a bad idea and
Speaker 2: he's like I know, and what And so now they're
Speaker 2: fucking well, they're about to fuck.
Speaker 1: They're in four play action again. Another scene you don't
Speaker 1: see very often on an SVU. You don't really see
Speaker 1: the detectives. You sometimes see them kiss and then wake
Speaker 1: up in a man's shirt, but you don't like see.
Speaker 3: A lot of the like rolling like thunder under the
Speaker 3: covers action.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I was very into it and me
Speaker 2: he's a hot guy. For those who don't know, he's
Speaker 2: in real life married to Amanda Seafried Cifrid.
Speaker 3: Figure it out. But you know what I'm talking about. Yes,
Speaker 3: he's a Broadway baby too.
Speaker 2: But then so someone's buzzing at the door, interrupting the sex,
Speaker 2: and he's like, don't get the door. But it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: I understand not answering a phone call, but a door
Speaker 2: in the middle of the night. You have to answer, right,
Speaker 2: Can I ignore that?
Speaker 1: But you know he wants to fuck So Rollins puts
Speaker 1: on a sweater, but she's already wearing a long sleeve
Speaker 1: flannel shirt, so she's barely undressed.
Speaker 3: I don't know why she had to put on a
Speaker 3: sweater to answer the door. But it's Lena.
Speaker 1: She's crying and she's saying that Jean took her home,
Speaker 1: had a few drinks and then raped her. So she
Speaker 1: falls into Rollin's arms to cry, and that's the credits. Baby,
Speaker 1: so a real entertangled mess. We got back from the
Speaker 1: credits and.
Speaker 2: Lena tells Rollins that he was buzzing at her door
Speaker 2: and he had been drinking. She could smell she could
Speaker 2: smell the booze on his breath, and they were kissing,
Speaker 2: but it heated it up super fast. He made her
Speaker 2: crawl on all fours to the bed, which reminds me
Speaker 2: of the episode of Girls with Sherry Appleby, who is
Speaker 2: also an sv alum. And we also learn he has
Speaker 2: a fiance and she's a prude and they call her
Speaker 2: missionary Melissa, so and so he's cheating on her. He's
Speaker 2: a super kinky person.
Speaker 1: And a rapist, and so yeah, he threw her on
Speaker 1: the bed and grabbed her hair and was being super
Speaker 1: rough and hurting her.
Speaker 2: And Ronin's like, did you say no and stop? And
Speaker 2: she says yes, but he kept going. And then she's like, wait,
Speaker 2: but is that rape? I don't know because I let
Speaker 2: him back in, and Ronin's like, wait what. And so
Speaker 2: we find out that he walked her home. Earlier, they
Speaker 2: had a quickie in the doorway that was consensual, but
Speaker 2: the second time when he came back, he forced her,
Speaker 2: and Rollins is like, yeah.
Speaker 3: That is rape.
Speaker 2: And then a doctor at the hospital tells Rollins that
Speaker 2: she's holding up and that they did a rape exam
Speaker 2: and she's has a sedative right now. And then the
Speaker 2: doctor says you can take your sister home, and Rollins
Speaker 2: is like, wait, sister, And the doctor was like, oh, sorry,
Speaker 2: maybe I misheard something.
Speaker 3: I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2: So that's a little suspicious that the sister thing came out,
Speaker 2: because obviously we know she has a shady sister.
Speaker 3: So was it a mistake? Is this on purpose? What's happening? SVU?
Speaker 3: Let's go baby.
Speaker 2: So then we're back at the precinct and Rollins breaks
Speaker 2: anonymity from her whole group and tells the whole squad
Speaker 2: how she knows Lena from AA and Benson is drinking
Speaker 2: a green juice, which I love, and she has turquoise earrings,
Speaker 2: which I love even more.
Speaker 1: It's very Santa Fe Benson. Yeah, I just I've never
Speaker 1: seen her in a green juice.
Speaker 2: It's always coffee, coffee, coffee, maybe a diet coke once
Speaker 2: in a while, but I've never.
Speaker 1: Seen a green juice. She's trying to survive, to make captain,
Speaker 1: you know. And then the funniest thing is I love
Speaker 1: when they all like I love the specicifity of jobs sometimes,
Speaker 1: like I'm reminded of the Flavor Institute.
Speaker 4: And here.
Speaker 2: Gane is an in house lawyer at a baby's supply.
Speaker 1: Chain, Like, is that someone's cousin's job? Like how do
Speaker 1: they come up with this stuff? I mean, these writers
Speaker 1: are incredible. So they go to his job and he's like, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm stressed, what do you want from me? But he
Speaker 1: shows text messages and Lena is all into it, Like
Speaker 1: when he says I want you to crawl and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna fuck you, She's like, oh, that's humiliating. I fucking
Speaker 1: love it, so uh oh, these texts like that makes
Speaker 1: this case really hard.
Speaker 3: Rollins asks like, hey.
Speaker 2: Why did you say you were my sister at the hospital,
Speaker 2: And she's like, I said you were like a sister
Speaker 2: to me at and want to break AA anonymity like
Speaker 2: you did at the precincts earlier.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's.
Speaker 2: Really she's quick, you know, like I didn't want to
Speaker 2: say we know each other from the meetings. Barbara's watching
Speaker 2: this through, like watching them chat at you know, through
Speaker 2: the window, and he's like, this is a rough case.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Jean's a Jewish lawyer, he's a good boy. She's an
Speaker 2: addict and a sales clerk. So classic Barbara bullshit that
Speaker 2: you all fully forget because you want to have sex
Speaker 2: with him so bad.
Speaker 3: But he is a problem.
Speaker 2: So Amorro goes to see Gene to put some pressure
Speaker 2: on him and see if they can talk to his fiance,
Speaker 2: and Jean's like, listen, leave my fiance alone. She's working
Speaker 2: at a refugee camp in Haiti. You don't have to
Speaker 2: bother her. So I love them.
Speaker 1: Missionary Melissa is a real missionary too, you know, and
Speaker 1: all and always oh my God, missionary Melissa. That's wait,
Speaker 1: I did not even put that together. That's too good.
Speaker 2: I don't know either, so right now, so it's I'm
Speaker 2: on the fly.
Speaker 1: Do you think if you're a missionary you have to
Speaker 1: be more sexually adventurous so that people don't just label
Speaker 1: you with these kind of nicknames. No, if you're a missionary, like,
Speaker 1: I'm a dictionary but I love it doing it reverse
Speaker 1: cowgirl just FYI, Like you have to be super clear
Speaker 1: on your dating profiles.
Speaker 3: This is like so tough.
Speaker 2: For me because missionaries are bad people, Like they pretend
Speaker 2: they're good people, but they're bad. Like if you go
Speaker 2: to do volunteer work and actually work, but if you're
Speaker 2: there to convert people and make people Christians, like you're
Speaker 2: a bad person. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like Book of Mormon shit too. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Because I went to an evangelical Christian college if anyone
Speaker 2: has forgotten, and I was in a conflict resolution class
Speaker 2: and we put together like some sort of conference for peace.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but we had people from.
Speaker 2: The community talk and there was someone that was like,
Speaker 2: they helped people get off the street, but their number
Speaker 2: one goal was converting them to Christianity like that was.
Speaker 3: Success to them.
Speaker 2: Like they like if they got someone off the street
Speaker 2: and functioning in a home and a job and like
Speaker 2: off of drugs, like that wouldn't be successful to them,
Speaker 2: Like converting them is their number one goal, right, And
Speaker 2: so to me, that's when it clicked in my brain.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, you guys are bad people.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: They're the type of people that are anal sexing for Jesus.
Speaker 1: Like, Okay, this is very interesting and comes into play
Speaker 1: in the real crime.
Speaker 3: Keep going, thank you, keep.
Speaker 1: Going, Thanks for I love where this is where you're
Speaker 1: taking it well.
Speaker 2: I also wanted to say I went into Christian college
Speaker 2: very open minded, and I left being like, you're the worst.
Speaker 3: Stop bragging about your hour a jew for Jesus when
Speaker 3: you first got there.
Speaker 1: Though, No, I was ready to just be like okay, whatever,
Speaker 1: like this is like not her name or Leola like
Speaker 1: I don't care about in school and gets to believe
Speaker 1: what they want.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 3: hate you guys.
Speaker 2: Why do I have to write three papers about gay marriage?
Speaker 2: This is such a non issue for me, Like people
Speaker 2: were truly like in Christian ethics, we talked about how
Speaker 2: sad it was then more like Christians couldn't save more
Speaker 2: Jews in the Holocaust, and it's like, you guys aren't
Speaker 2: the victim.
Speaker 3: Like it was really not center.
Speaker 2: It was a fucked up place to be, but I'm
Speaker 2: really grateful for that experience. And I did like a
Speaker 2: couple of people, and I met my best friend there,
Speaker 2: but she also knew it was bullshit. Okay, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: And I'm a really famous alumni. They don't give me
Speaker 2: any respect. Why am I not in the pamphlets?
Speaker 3: Huh? I wonder?
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, So they have to figure out if this
Speaker 2: is part of a pattern or like what's actually going
Speaker 2: on or is this like so they find out that
Speaker 2: the Jean and Lena have fucked in a Brooks Brother's
Speaker 2: dressing room, which is funny that, like they're talking down
Speaker 2: about her being a sales clerk, but Brooks Brothers is
Speaker 2: pretty fancy, you know, like you do.
Speaker 1: Okay, Wow, I didn't realize it was a Brooks brother
Speaker 1: I missed that detail. That's an extensive store. I've never
Speaker 1: shot theresive store. I used to try to like go
Speaker 1: there to find like Father's Day presence.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, I got my dad nuts this year,
Speaker 2: nice sauce.
Speaker 3: Did you do nuts dot Com?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I had to do Amazon because I've forgotten till Saturday.
Speaker 2: And even though they're an evil corporation, they will get
Speaker 2: your dad nuts in twenty four hours. And then Jane
Speaker 2: says that he told Melissa everything on Skype, so this
Speaker 2: is pre zoom and that she forgave him and she
Speaker 2: and but it's like, girl, you could do better. Why
Speaker 2: are you like missionary Melissa? But maybe she just loves
Speaker 2: him and knows he's an attic. I don't know, but
Speaker 2: it's like he is fully cheating on you constantly do
Speaker 2: not forgive him. So we cut to Lena and Rollins
Speaker 2: at Nate's bar again, and Lena's eating spaghetti and meatballs
Speaker 2: that look amazing, and Rollins is just explaining to Lena
Speaker 2: why this is a tough case, like I believe that
Speaker 2: you were raped, but the texts like this really does
Speaker 2: make it a hard case, right, And she's like, listen,
Speaker 2: I smoke.
Speaker 3: And I have sex.
Speaker 2: I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't do drugs,
Speaker 2: like those are my things, Like I don't know what
Speaker 2: you want from me, I can't have nothing, and she says,
Speaker 2: just stay away from him and if he that, you
Speaker 2: contact me immediately. Rollins and Nate like move over to
Speaker 2: flirt by the bar and Lena is alone and they're
Speaker 2: talking about her while looking at her like She's probably like, okay,
Speaker 2: I could tell you guys are talking about me.
Speaker 3: The bar's basically empty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has three shirts on, a sweater, a flannel
Speaker 2: and a Renaissance white shirt underneath and a Gorean's Brother hat.
Speaker 3: It's just so many layers. Yeah, and layers really threw you, Lisa.
Speaker 1: I was like, we watched this episode together and you
Speaker 1: were just like, why so many layers?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just tough for me because I would feel
Speaker 2: claustrophobic in those so many layers, and then cuts to
Speaker 2: them shirtless in beds, so they did so obviously.
Speaker 1: Rowins had a problem with the layers too. She's like,
Speaker 1: take it all off. He just got in bed and
Speaker 1: that was took. That was five minutes of four play.
Speaker 2: So the phone buzzes and wakes Rollin's up. Crime scene.
Speaker 2: Rollins meets iced Tea, and Jean took a header off
Speaker 2: the roof in quotes off of Lina's building. So Jean
Speaker 2: is dead at the bottom of Lena's building and he
Speaker 2: fell off the roof. He is dead Ice and Rollins agreed,
Speaker 2: this is no good, not good. Lena is like, wait,
Speaker 2: this makes no sense. He fell off my roof. I
Speaker 2: don't get it. And Lena's like, I wanted to drink
Speaker 2: so bad, so instead I made a twelve step call
Speaker 2: and he was furious and accusing me of like ruining
Speaker 2: his life, and Lena's saying that she tried calming him down,
Speaker 2: and Jean said he wanted to make amends, and Rollins
Speaker 2: is like, did he come by here? And she says no,
Speaker 2: it's this bitch is a liar. I'm sorry, yeah, and
Speaker 2: then she goes, I don't get why you won't believe me.
Speaker 2: It's like because you keep lying and he throws your
Speaker 2: room and you called him, like why are you surprised
Speaker 2: they don't believe you? I okay, So Iced teas outside,
Speaker 2: and I guess Nate came up in the conversation, like
Speaker 2: when they were talking to Lena.
Speaker 3: So Iced Tea is like, what's up with Nate? Who
Speaker 3: is this? And Rollins is like, you're not my daddy,
Speaker 3: leave me alone.
Speaker 1: I'm a big girl, iced tea and doesn't want to
Speaker 1: talk to him.
Speaker 3: So cool. Well, he points out.
Speaker 1: That, like, you're you're not supposed to Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: you're definitely not supposed to date your sponsor. And I
Speaker 1: think you're not even supposed to have a sponsor of
Speaker 1: the sex that you're attracted to.
Speaker 3: Maybe, but I think it's just for her because she's slutty.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like specific Rolins rules. Yeah, but it is cute.
Speaker 3: Icy is like trying to look out for her. I
Speaker 3: think it's kind of cute.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: I love their relationship. I love an iced tea, Rollins
Speaker 2: yeah vibe. So they are meeting up at the medical
Speaker 2: Examiner's office and Melinda says that he died immediately from impact,
Speaker 2: and she says there's small amounts of liquor and drugs,
Speaker 2: but he wasn't drunk and he wasn't alone, And they're.
Speaker 3: Like, how do you know?
Speaker 2: So his pants are unzipped, there's saliva on his penis
Speaker 2: and fresh ejaculate in the urethra. She says, most men
Speaker 2: pee after sex and that clears out all the leftover jiz.
Speaker 2: But so that he recently came and there was leftovers,
Speaker 2: but he didn't get time to pee. And then Melinda
Speaker 2: has an iconic line where she says he came and
Speaker 2: then he went.
Speaker 1: Which I posted in our Stories and I will I
Speaker 1: will say, I will find this story and I will
Speaker 1: put it in our mention at all Highlight. But I
Speaker 1: posted that they just made that same joke again in
Speaker 1: the current season where they go, they go, he went,
Speaker 1: but he never came, Like they made the same exact
Speaker 1: Melinda joke about coming and then dying.
Speaker 3: So after that.
Speaker 2: Iconic moment that I'm glad they did a fucking callback to.
Speaker 2: They're an interrogation with Lena Benson and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow's
Speaker 2: knee is up on the chair and he's just looking
Speaker 2: sexy as hell. So Lena now says she let him in.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like she is a mess. So Lena
Speaker 2: says she let him in to talk on the doorway,
Speaker 2: and then they're like, well, how did.
Speaker 3: You get on the roof?
Speaker 1: And she's like, I didn't want to in the apartment
Speaker 1: and we've had sex on the roof before and he
Speaker 1: likes it on the ledge.
Speaker 3: She's like very into.
Speaker 2: That, and she thought if she went along with it,
Speaker 2: he would leave her alone. She went to suck his
Speaker 2: dick and take care of it, but then he got
Speaker 2: violent and pulled her hair and grabbed her, and she
Speaker 2: got scared and pushed him off the roof after she screamed, like,
Speaker 2: don't hurt me. I mean, I don't believe it sucks,
Speaker 2: but I don't believe it word she's saying.
Speaker 1: So Amar's like, why did you lie? And She's like,
Speaker 1: why would I lie? No one believed me because I'm
Speaker 1: a liar. I mean, I don't I honestly, It's like, Lena,
Speaker 1: leave me alone. And then Barba does have a great
Speaker 1: line where he goes her not telling us that she
Speaker 1: filated him with Frizzle Rocks in her mouth, like tattoo
Speaker 1: that on my forehead.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says that, but like, had that come up
Speaker 1: earlier or that's like a later detail that they find out.
Speaker 3: No, no one has mentioned it, No one mentions it again.
Speaker 1: But like Melinda never said I found jaculate in the
Speaker 1: urethra as well as crystallized candy fragments from Frizzle Rock,
Speaker 1: Like we never heard that, right.
Speaker 2: No, But I love that and I love pop rocks,
Speaker 2: which I'm assuming is for yeah.
Speaker 1: So that's that's also like an urban legende type of
Speaker 1: thing I've heard of, of, like yeah, get like give
Speaker 1: a guy a BJ with pop rocks.
Speaker 3: In your mouth.
Speaker 1: But if you've done that, let us know a how
Speaker 1: you didn't choke and be if it went off, if
Speaker 1: it went well, let us know dm us.
Speaker 2: Rollins of course, is trying to defend her. So they're
Speaker 2: not going to find Melissa the fiance and see what
Speaker 2: her story is and if anything matches, and they can get.
Speaker 3: More clues from her.
Speaker 2: But first Nate and Rollins and the dog, you know,
Speaker 2: Franny or Frankie or whatever.
Speaker 3: I'm sure someone will like me it's Franny. I think
Speaker 3: it's Franny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they're walking with a really pretty view of
Speaker 2: New York and talking over the case, which also seems insane,
Speaker 2: like what are why are you? There's not a detective
Speaker 2: that's made more worse than decisions than fucking Rollins. And
Speaker 2: so then Rollind's like, are you sponsoring Lena? Like youre
Speaker 2: sponsoring me? And he's like, hey, don't be mad, and
Speaker 2: like reprimands her. But it's like, okay, you're fucking everybody,
Speaker 2: amarro and I sear gossiping at the precinct about rollins,
Speaker 2: and Melissa shows up in a sweater, asking if they're
Speaker 2: investigating Jean's murder, and.
Speaker 1: They're like, who told you he was murdered? And she says,
Speaker 1: Jeane did. And I feel like this is like a
Speaker 1: twenties movie. I was just like, I love it.
Speaker 2: And so basically he left her a voicemail and they
Speaker 2: listened to the message and he Jeane says, Melissa, it's me.
Speaker 2: I'm afraid what Lena might do. I'm going to try
Speaker 2: to talk some sense into her. If anything happens to me,
Speaker 2: called the police.
Speaker 3: I love you. And that was at ten pm.
Speaker 2: She threatened him and Melissa and stalked him, and when
Speaker 2: he tried to end it, she accused him of rape,
Speaker 2: and when that didn't work, she fucking killed him.
Speaker 3: And uh so the super shows up too.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just a fucking rat race at the
Speaker 2: precinct today. Everyone's coming in to red on Lina, so
Speaker 2: everyone hates her. So the building super gives the scoop
Speaker 2: that Lena asked him how to disable the roof door
Speaker 2: alarm like a few nights ago because she wanted to
Speaker 2: go smoke up there, but he knew it wasn't for
Speaker 2: smoking because he's caught Jean and her fucking up there
Speaker 2: before multiple times, and after Jean's death, when he went
Speaker 2: up there, the batteries were out of the alarm, so.
Speaker 3: That's a clue.
Speaker 1: Now, Benson and Tomorrow go to arrest Lena, and Lena's like,
Speaker 1: what why are you doing this? And Amanda's there what
Speaker 1: the fuck?
Speaker 2: So Amanda's inner apartment and Amanda is like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: And Benson is like disappointed, and Amanda like scoffs at her,
Speaker 2: like what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 3: Rollins? So I just don't get how she's a detective.
Speaker 2: So Barbara and Rolins are talking and Lena's like, listen,
Speaker 2: Rowins wanted to call as a friend, like, she didn't
Speaker 2: make any admissions to me, And Rollins is like, I
Speaker 2: didn't even know her that well. And Barbara's like, what
Speaker 2: the fuck do you mean you didn't know her that well?
Speaker 2: She thought you were close enough to disclose a rape
Speaker 2: to you, and Rollin says it's because she knew I
Speaker 2: was an SVU detective and Barbara goes, you told her that,
Speaker 2: and Rollins is confused a little bit and goes, I
Speaker 2: mean maybe I brought it up in a meeting, So
Speaker 2: this is a foreshadow. If you guys know that word,
Speaker 2: or if you went to English class, if you did
Speaker 2: sixth grade English class, you know that this is a foreshadow.
Speaker 2: So Rollins asks if meetings are confidential, and he says
Speaker 2: ethically yes, but legally no. So if there's something, you
Speaker 2: better speak up, bitch, and Barbara says he's not going
Speaker 2: to ask Rollins to testify, which is super cute. So
Speaker 2: now we're in Core and Benson's on the stand and
Speaker 2: Barbara Barbara is asking about how Lena is a liar,
Speaker 2: and Nia Vargalos is in this episode as a defense attorney,
Speaker 2: so very star.
Speaker 3: Studied episode, and she's a hero. I love her so much.
Speaker 2: And Lena has glasses on, high collars, dress shirt like
Speaker 2: full librarian chic baby, and Nia is going after Benson hard,
Speaker 2: and this is what one of my favorite judges, Elena
Speaker 2: Barth played by Jenna Stern in nineteen episodes of the show,
Speaker 2: and she's also been on the Mothership and Criminal Intent
Speaker 2: a bunch, so dick Wolf obviously very much loves her.
Speaker 3: So cord is happening.
Speaker 2: But now we're back at the precinct, and Olivia does
Speaker 2: throw some shade to Rollins, like damn, you got your
Speaker 2: friend a real good lawyer.
Speaker 3: That's that okay. Wow.
Speaker 2: Rollins is like, hey, guys, I see this clearly I
Speaker 2: and I see it.
Speaker 3: Why don't you guys trust me?
Speaker 2: And It's like, oh, because you've constantly lied before and
Speaker 2: put all of us in risk constantly.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So Benson and Rollins are like at the precinct, going
Speaker 2: into it, and Benson's like, you need to like shut
Speaker 2: up and.
Speaker 3: Just focus on your life, girl.
Speaker 2: So then we cut back to the meeting and Nate
Speaker 2: is talking at a meeting and he's been sober for
Speaker 2: ten years, YadA, YadA, yadda, and what do we have here?
Speaker 3: Fucking Tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Amorrow is undercover in a Ranger sweatshirt, looking sexy as
Speaker 2: hell again with a classic New York coffee cup, and
Speaker 2: he sees Nate as like macking on girls, Andmorrow tries
Speaker 2: to bond with him and is like, hey, what's up,
Speaker 2: Like I need some help, and Nate blows him off
Speaker 2: fully and goes off with like one of the girls
Speaker 2: that he's flirting with, and so Amarro knows what's.
Speaker 1: Up, but and Tomorrow, and like this is more foreshadowing.
Speaker 1: I think of how Amorrow has the hots for Rollins, right, Like,
Speaker 1: obviously he's doing this to get information about the case,
Speaker 1: but I think he's also doing this to Like there's
Speaker 1: two reasons he's trying to help Rollin see that the
Speaker 1: guy she's hooking up with is like a lothario.
Speaker 3: So they're in bed.
Speaker 2: So Rollin's and Nate are back in bed and Ron's like, hey,
Speaker 2: do you remember how it came up that I worked
Speaker 2: in SVU?
Speaker 1: And he was like, I don't know. Maybe I could
Speaker 1: have mentioned it, Like he doesn't, I don't, okay, so
Speaker 1: implying that he probably is the one that told Lena, right.
Speaker 3: Like that's like the implication.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, and through their combo we find out
Speaker 2: the defense is calling a man to take the stand,
Speaker 2: Lena is going to take the stand to and then
Speaker 2: while they're talking about this court case, he's kissing her
Speaker 2: on her and lying to her face, and we hate him.
Speaker 2: We also hate Melissa, who's now taking this stand because
Speaker 2: you know she's boring at sex boo.
Speaker 3: We hate her.
Speaker 2: So she's on the stand and saying that he was
Speaker 2: doing anything you could to get away from her. That
Speaker 2: Lena was sending videos to Melissa of them fucking and
Speaker 2: all these messages saying that like he would like he's mine,
Speaker 2: He's gonna leave you.
Speaker 3: And once like she.
Speaker 2: Realized Jeane didn't want her, she screamed rape and when
Speaker 2: no one believed her, she killed him. So you know,
Speaker 2: that's a great testimony. But now it's Nia's turn to
Speaker 2: go for Melissa. And Melissa, I mean, she gets swept,
Speaker 2: what is it, wiped the floor with She's basically like
Speaker 2: he said he would marry you, but you've never set
Speaker 2: a date. There was no venue booked, and he kept
Speaker 2: seeing you know, miss Olsen. We learned her last name,
Speaker 2: so I bet she's Swedish descent, and so they were
Speaker 2: just like maybe is it possible he was just giving
Speaker 2: himself like a cover and that he did want her,
Speaker 2: And Nia's just like, oh, he was so scared that
Speaker 2: he went to the roof and like had her suck
Speaker 2: his dick on a ledge, like because he was so scared.
Speaker 2: If he was so scared, why would he do that, Like,
Speaker 2: you've never done anything kinky with him, You've never drink
Speaker 2: with him, So maybe there's another side to him that
Speaker 2: you just don't know. That's like an amazing defense, like
Speaker 2: that is so fucking good, where it's like Melissa, you
Speaker 2: might actually be a loser, so that he doesn't actually
Speaker 2: like that much. So they cut to the bunk bed
Speaker 2: locker room at the station and Rollin's just screaming at
Speaker 2: Tomorrow like how dare you spy and get involved in
Speaker 2: my life?
Speaker 3: Like shut up?
Speaker 2: And then Amorrow makes the number one mistake of all
Speaker 2: time and tells her to calm down.
Speaker 3: Bad move.
Speaker 2: She's not gonna calm down, and so Amaro's like, listen,
Speaker 2: I went with the other guys and they all said
Speaker 2: he sucks and he's shady in a thirteen stepper, which
Speaker 2: means like he's always fucking new girls. And Rollin's like,
Speaker 2: you're just jealous and you're addicted to your own a
Speaker 2: misery and I see he's like whoa, whoa, whoa relaxed,
Speaker 2: and she's like, none of you are my dad's.
Speaker 3: Like you wish they were your dad's Your real dad sucks.
Speaker 3: These guys are good.
Speaker 2: Guys generally, yeah, And the men are just sitting there
Speaker 2: being like Wow, that sucks, and it's like Rollins is
Speaker 2: just so wrong. We see it, everyone sees it, and
Speaker 2: she's just like a fucking dummy, so like it's you know,
Speaker 2: usually I would try to be on a woman's side,
Speaker 2: but not here. So she runs to Nate's bar to
Speaker 2: have coffee, and we find out that Nate is testifying too,
Speaker 2: but didn't mention it to Rollins, which is fucked up
Speaker 2: because they were just in bed talking about how Rollins
Speaker 2: is going to testify, so it could have naturally came up,
Speaker 2: and he quotes like an AA quote and like keep
Speaker 2: it moving, baby, and so now we are back in court,
Speaker 2: thank god. Lena's on the stand again in a librarian chic,
Speaker 2: and she's talking about her bad dad and that Jane
Speaker 2: would call her his three whole wonder and I can't
Speaker 2: believe and BC aired that, like I've never thought that
Speaker 2: that would happen in my wildest dreams. She's saying that
Speaker 2: she was scared of him, but she felt like, you know,
Speaker 2: she did what he wanted and kept her happy, that
Speaker 2: he would be nice and leave her alone, and she
Speaker 2: just wanted to comply.
Speaker 3: And she know she's putting out what is.
Speaker 2: It, like the violence she's making the little people play,
Speaker 2: the little violence, whatever that is, and so, but Barbara
Speaker 2: is ready to like fuck with her. So Barbara is like, Lena,
Speaker 2: are you really upset that the rape charges didn't stick?
Speaker 3: Or are you mad that he didn't leave his fiance? Rude?
Speaker 3: And she's like, how dare you? Because I was raped?
Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, but you invited him in and
Speaker 2: you sucked his dick on the roof, so what's happening?
Speaker 2: And Barbara's like, like, so you're telling me he came
Speaker 2: and then immediately became violent, Like that makes no sense,
Speaker 2: Like you you know, you're usually chill after you come.
Speaker 2: And she's like, stop yelling at me. It's like my dad,
Speaker 2: and so a lot of dad stuff in this episode.
Speaker 2: You know, he asks why did you lie to the
Speaker 2: cops so much? She has no answer. So now Robin's
Speaker 2: is getting a little nervous about like taking the stand.
Speaker 2: Amoro and Barbara are gossiping about Nate, and then back
Speaker 2: at the precinct, we find out Cassidy is making Olivia
Speaker 2: clam sauce for dinner, which delicious, and then Amanda's pulling
Speaker 2: a double to be their way. Nate testifies like she
Speaker 2: is acting like a fourteen year old girl.
Speaker 3: It is really uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Well, for a detective, she's not picking up on a
Speaker 1: lot of fucking like signals and signs and evidence like
Speaker 1: you she get a little bit more.
Speaker 3: She's acting like a real cop, which is nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Amorro is like, yo, I don't think you want
Speaker 1: to do that, and she's like, I don't think I
Speaker 1: asked for your opinion, bitch. So Rollin's is fuming, and
Speaker 1: Benson goes to like just chill her out and is like, girl, like,
Speaker 1: relax and maybe you should go talk to someone.
Speaker 3: Maybe you should go to.
Speaker 2: Therapy, and Rollin says something that she thinks is a burn,
Speaker 2: but it really isn't. She goes, oh, I don't have
Speaker 2: to pay for someone to listen to my problems. And
Speaker 2: it's like okay, yeah, you just go to meetings where
Speaker 2: you're being fully used and taken advantage of and you're
Speaker 2: a fucking idiot. So Nate's on the stand and Nia
Speaker 2: is playing softball with him, and then Barba is about
Speaker 2: to just like go down, and I forgot.
Speaker 3: To say that. Amorro does smell.
Speaker 2: Rollins like, you probably don't want to go watch Nate's testimony,
Speaker 2: and she's like fuck you, you know, like we.
Speaker 3: Know something's about to happen.
Speaker 2: So Barbara is like, oh, you're a therapist, and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: you're not, which I loved that little sass. But Nate
Speaker 2: admits he's had sex with Lena, and Lena turns around
Speaker 2: and gives Amanda like puppy dog eyes like I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Barba asks when is the last time you fucked her?
Speaker 2: And it was one week ago. So while he's fucking Rollins,
Speaker 2: he's fucking Lena and it's all coming out on the
Speaker 2: stand and he admits that Rollins didn't know about Lena,
Speaker 2: but Lena knew about Rollins. He shared about Rolin's sister
Speaker 2: and job, and then Lena asked Nate to bring Rollins
Speaker 2: and he did. Rollins leaves, wiping tears away because she's humiliated,
Speaker 2: but don't worry.
Speaker 3: She will never grow or change or be a better person.
Speaker 1: He meets her at the elevator and is like, I
Speaker 1: know you're upset, Like let's just talk.
Speaker 3: Let's go to a meeting. Quotes quotes coats forgive and forget.
Speaker 2: You know, I still believe you, Amanda, to progress, not perfection.
Speaker 3: Don't give up on the program.
Speaker 2: She doesn't say anything back to him, and Barbara comes
Speaker 2: and says sorry to her and he had to do it.
Speaker 2: She's not angry with him, which is correct. She only
Speaker 2: has herself to be angry at.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you know she is guilty. Lena is guilty.
Speaker 2: The jury finds are guilty of murder, and she's remanded
Speaker 2: for sensing. Bye, bitch, go to jail. Glasses invests are
Speaker 2: not going to help you.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 2: Rollin's and Ice and Craigan are chatting and she's like,
Speaker 2: I don't feel better yet, even when she was guilty,
Speaker 2: and Ice invites her for a beer, but she's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go to a meeting.
Speaker 3: Does she go to a meeting? No, she goes to
Speaker 3: the casino.
Speaker 2: She's keeps hitting the blackjack thing and she's looking cigarettes
Speaker 2: so cool.
Speaker 1: Damn Well wow that because like this Lena woman was
Speaker 1: like very pre like this all goes to the premeditation
Speaker 1: was how she slept with Nay and like like got
Speaker 1: into the got to know Rollins and got close to Rollins.
Speaker 3: Also she could kind of pull off this crime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like that's really sort of very diabolical.
Speaker 1: Well wait until you hear about the real crime. This
Speaker 1: is based on We will be right back, Okay. So
Speaker 1: this crime is typically unfortunately called the Jody Arias case,
Speaker 1: even though it is the case of the murder of
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander. But this you probably have heard about this
Speaker 1: case because it was truly one of the biggest cases
Speaker 1: in the last decade, and it was fully covered on CNN.
Speaker 1: HLN had a full nighttime show dedicated to it.
Speaker 3: I remember watching it on TV on like you know
Speaker 3: where I was.
Speaker 1: I was at the comedy condo of Zany's Downtown and
Speaker 1: watching it on TV because it was like a TV
Speaker 1: with ten channels, and I was like, I guess they
Speaker 1: have hl and I'm going to watch a shit down
Speaker 1: about this weird Mormon murder or whatever. And then later
Speaker 1: when I was living when I was in La on
Speaker 1: a trip, I remember finding a Huffington Post article that
Speaker 1: was just a one hundred and fifty slide slide show
Speaker 1: of this case.
Speaker 3: And I stayed up till three.
Speaker 1: In the morning just like going through crime scene photos
Speaker 1: and like finding out every detail about this case. So
Speaker 1: needless to say, I've been, I've been. I've been studying
Speaker 1: this case before. I'm not going to say I remember
Speaker 1: everything that I learned in twenty thirteen, but I have
Speaker 1: re researched it for the purposes of the pod.
Speaker 3: So let me start from the beginning.
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander was just a young guy, a salesman, a
Speaker 1: motivational speaker for a company called pre Paid Legal Services,
Speaker 1: living in Mesa, Arizona. Everybody loves this guy. He's got family,
Speaker 1: he's got friends. He had a kind of a rough
Speaker 1: childhood growing up, like he had abusive, drug addicted parents,
Speaker 1: but he, you know, overcame everything and had like a
Speaker 1: great professional life and lots of friends, and everybody spoke
Speaker 1: of him.
Speaker 3: Like he was just the greatest, nicest guy.
Speaker 1: But of course he's like he's about to hit thirty,
Speaker 1: and he's Mormon and he's not married, so he is
Speaker 1: sort of like people are kind of like, when are
Speaker 1: you going to settle down?
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: So in September of two thousand and six, Travis meets
Speaker 1: a hot, young bottle blonde named Jody Arius at a
Speaker 1: Prepaid Legal conference in Las Vegas. Okay, these two immediately
Speaker 1: hit it off. They have chemistry. They start talking on
Speaker 1: the phone like multiple is.
Speaker 3: The prepaid part important? Yeah, it's called that's the name
Speaker 3: of the place.
Speaker 1: It's called the the place called PPL pre Paid Legal,
Speaker 1: And I think that's like their services are, like it's
Speaker 1: probably similar to like who set up my business account?
Speaker 1: You go like on the internet and like get all
Speaker 1: these legal services like in a bubble. I thought they
Speaker 1: like prepaid for their tickets to the conference.
Speaker 3: And it's like, is this a clue.
Speaker 2: Oh no, that's the name of the business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the name of the business is Prepaid Legal. So
Speaker 1: they start talking on the phone all the time, high
Speaker 1: school style. She lives in Palm Desert, California, shout out
Speaker 1: to Palm Springs area, and he lives in Mace, Arizona.
Speaker 1: So they're long distance and to give you an idea
Speaker 1: of how quickly things are moving, they meet in September
Speaker 1: of two thousand and six, and in November of two
Speaker 1: thousand and six, Jody is baptized by Travis in a
Speaker 1: Mormon ceremony. So they're not even dating yet. They're just
Speaker 1: talking on the phone and they have this crazy chemistry.
Speaker 1: But I think she's so into the idea of dating
Speaker 1: him and like he's into her that like they probably know,
Speaker 1: like this can't really go any further.
Speaker 3: If I'm not Mormon.
Speaker 1: So she starts like the process of I don't really
Speaker 1: know what the Mormon conversion process is. All I read
Speaker 1: was that she was baptized in this Mormon ceremony.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet it's like all you have to do
Speaker 2: is want to be a Mormon and dunk in a
Speaker 2: lake like they're desperate for new followers.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And we actually just watched my big fact Greek wedding
Speaker 1: yesterday starring me of Ardalas, and her husband gets baptized in.
Speaker 3: The Greek Orthodox Church to marry her.
Speaker 1: So I just watched a weird baptism of a grown
Speaker 1: man yesterday, but this was a woman, and he did
Speaker 1: it for her. And then they begin dating in February
Speaker 1: of two thousand and seven. I don't know if they
Speaker 1: had like a busy Christmas season. I don't know why
Speaker 1: they couldn't start dating right after the dunk, but I
Speaker 1: guess you know. So, premarital sex in the Mormon Church
Speaker 1: is a huge no no.
Speaker 3: But they these two are banging like it is their job.
Speaker 1: They're having tons and tons of sex. His friends all
Speaker 1: think Jody is very weird. She's very sexual. She like
Speaker 1: straddles him like this, one I watched this twenty twenty
Speaker 1: about it, where this one woman's like me and my
Speaker 1: husband are just with them in a hot tub, the
Speaker 1: four of us, and she's straddling him forward facing and
Speaker 1: like kissing his neck while the other two of us
Speaker 1: are in the hot tub. Like she's very awkward, but
Speaker 1: a lot of that was part of her asserting her
Speaker 1: ession of him, and like she's very possessive. She goes
Speaker 1: through his phone, she goes through his email, his social
Speaker 1: media and stuff, and she's just very like they just
Speaker 1: seem like they have this extremely sexual and intense relationship.
Speaker 1: They break up in June of two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: so this is like a four or five month relationship.
Speaker 1: They do keep up the physical stuff they've got. They
Speaker 1: have a ton of phone sex, they exchange all many
Speaker 1: many horny texts, and a lot of it is him initiating.
Speaker 1: It's not just like I don't want to paint the
Speaker 1: picture that like she's a full stalker. Like they're both
Speaker 1: going back and forth, but you get the feeling that
Speaker 1: he treats her like a sex object and not like
Speaker 1: marriage material. You know, like he texts her how beautiful
Speaker 1: she is, He text her how bad. He wants to
Speaker 1: fuck her and stuff like that, but like not, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's not the same uh as
Speaker 1: somebody he would probably marry. Oh, and then this is
Speaker 1: relevant to something that happens in the episode. He does
Speaker 1: text her at one point saying I'm going to tie
Speaker 1: you to a tree and put it in your ass.
Speaker 1: And oh, sorry, that's not even a text that's in
Speaker 1: a taped conversation, and she goes, oh my gosh, that
Speaker 1: is so debasing.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 1: So that's like exactly kind of like wow texts that
Speaker 1: we're seeing from Jean and uh Lena in episode Okay,
Speaker 1: after they break up, she does a totally normal thing
Speaker 1: and moves from California.
Speaker 3: To Arizona to be near him.
Speaker 1: She moves to Mesa, Arizona, like the town he lives in,
Speaker 1: and so his friends are all like, this girl is psycho.
Speaker 3: He's been dating another girl.
Speaker 1: And twice while he's at this girl's house, he comes
Speaker 1: out and his tires are slashed, So like, obviously they
Speaker 1: think that's Jody. That's not just like a thing that
Speaker 1: keeps happening at this girl's house.
Speaker 3: So they never got married. Oh no, no, no, So
Speaker 3: he's just this.
Speaker 2: I guess I assumed he was a virgin till thirty
Speaker 2: waiting for marriage, but he was a slutty Mormon.
Speaker 3: Who's slutty Mormon? Okay.
Speaker 1: And we find out a little bit later that they
Speaker 1: do do a lot of anal sex because like you
Speaker 1: know how Mormons will think that that's not real sex
Speaker 1: or whatever, like anal and oral, but then they all
Speaker 1: have regular like penetrative vaginal sex. And so yes, he's
Speaker 1: breaking Mormon rules left and right because he's like so
Speaker 1: horny for her. You can like tell when you see
Speaker 1: these text messages and hear these recorded conversations like that
Speaker 1: they are just like little fuck machines for each other.
Speaker 1: So not to speak ill of the dead, but he
Speaker 1: was very horny for his murderer. And not to blow,
Speaker 1: not to blow the thing. But I think everyone knows
Speaker 1: how this ends. One funny thing I think in that
Speaker 1: they're highlighting in a lot of these news things is
Speaker 1: that they both have blogs. Like I just think it's
Speaker 1: very mid aughts to be like then he wrote on
Speaker 1: his blog X and she wrote on her blog why.
Speaker 1: And it's just so funny because like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I never had a blog like that, but it's so
Speaker 1: that time period, so they'll talk about these like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I just saw did you watch the fuck what was
Speaker 1: it called?
Speaker 3: The Murder Hotel one? Hotel Cecil?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Hotel's Cecil Hotel one, Like everything in that
Speaker 1: whole like documentary series, was like her blog and like
Speaker 1: it's always cryptic shit that doesn't mean anything, like he
Speaker 1: writes on his Oh, she writes on her blog, I
Speaker 1: cannot ignore that there is an ever present yearning and
Speaker 1: desire that pulses within me. It throbs for gratification and fulfillment.
Speaker 1: What are you even talking about? And then Travis writes
Speaker 1: desperately trying to find out if my date has an
Speaker 1: axe murderer penned up inside of her, Okay, a little
Speaker 1: bit more specific, So he obviously is thinking I might
Speaker 1: be dating a psycho, but I'm obviously very horny for her.
Speaker 1: So during the first week of June two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: Travis tells his friends that he thinks Jody maybe hacked
Speaker 1: into his Facebook, and he said that he told her
Speaker 1: to stay out of his life forever. So this could
Speaker 1: have been the triggering moment for Jody where she was like,
Speaker 1: if I can't have you. Nobody can because then on
Speaker 1: June fourth, she drives to Mesa, Arizona, from California.
Speaker 3: They have sex.
Speaker 1: They have a lot of sex, and they take all
Speaker 1: these sexually explicit photos which you can see in the
Speaker 1: Huffington Post slide show that I mentioned earlier, if you're interested.
Speaker 1: There are black bars over the naughty bits, but the
Speaker 1: photos are there.
Speaker 3: And then nobody hears from Travis.
Speaker 1: After June fourth, for a few days, okay, Jodi drives
Speaker 1: to go visit this Mormon meatthead guy that she started
Speaker 1: to date in Utah that she also met at another
Speaker 1: prepaid legal conference.
Speaker 3: This girls like a conference.
Speaker 1: Rat, and he says that they make out passionately. That
Speaker 1: her and this guy they don't have sex, but he
Speaker 1: says it doesn't seem like she's got anything on her mind.
Speaker 3: Nothing seems off with her at all.
Speaker 1: On June ninth, five days later, friends have not heard
Speaker 1: from Travis.
Speaker 3: They go to his apartment.
Speaker 1: What I think is weird is in the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: thing they say he has roommates, and I'm like, was
Speaker 1: nobody home like?
Speaker 3: Because he is found.
Speaker 1: When they go into his apartment, they find that his
Speaker 1: apartment is covered in blood. He is dead in the shower,
Speaker 1: decomposing and starting to mummify, like when they go into
Speaker 1: the room, they can smell immediately.
Speaker 3: So I don't understand why.
Speaker 1: These roommates didn't like sense anything. Maybe they were out
Speaker 1: of town.
Speaker 5: I think he lived in a house and he had
Speaker 5: his own wing of the house type situation. Oh okay,
Speaker 5: well he had housemates, that's right, and they were like
Speaker 5: on a different side. So maybe they just missed each
Speaker 5: other coming in and.
Speaker 3: Out or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's creepy if I knew I was sleeping for
Speaker 1: four days and nights with like my dead roommate in
Speaker 1: my house.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Anyway, nightmare fuel.
Speaker 1: So his wounds are so extensive, it's like very very disturbing.
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't know, fast forward thirty seconds
Speaker 1: if you don't want to hear about this, But he's
Speaker 1: been stabbed twenty seven times. His throat is slit, like
Speaker 1: very deeply, like it's cut his voice box, his arteries,
Speaker 1: like it's a very deep like ear to ear slit,
Speaker 1: and he's been shot in the head with a twenty
Speaker 1: five caliber gun.
Speaker 3: So the scene is.
Speaker 1: Really really horrific, like splatter everywhere, it's like a dexter situation.
Speaker 1: They find a bloody print, like I read a fingerprint,
Speaker 1: but I also read palm print, but it's like a
Speaker 1: bloody print, and they find a hair. Basically a week
Speaker 1: after the body is found, Jody voluntarily goes to the
Speaker 1: Mesa Pola department and it's like, I really want to help.
Speaker 1: I heard that my friend Travis died. And this is
Speaker 1: just like textbook narcissism, Like she just needs to insert
Speaker 1: herself into the case. I mean, we've seen this obviously
Speaker 1: on stview a million times, but it's wild that she
Speaker 1: literally called them, Like it wasn't like they called her
Speaker 1: in and they're like, we're calling in all friends of Travis,
Speaker 1: all ex girlfriends or whatever. Like she went to them,
Speaker 1: she gave fingerprints, she gave a DNA sample, and she
Speaker 1: said she hadn't seen Travis since April. So the crazy
Speaker 1: piece of evidence in this case that people talk about
Speaker 1: and is the most I think interesting, is that is
Speaker 1: a digital camera that they find in the washing machine.
Speaker 1: It's been run through the wash cycle. Now, on the
Speaker 1: memory card they find photos that have been deleted. But
Speaker 1: as you should all know, nothing is ever really deleted.
Speaker 1: Like you delete something, it still exists somewhere, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like very hard to really really delete things,
Speaker 1: except for like papers I wrote in college, where I'd
Speaker 1: be almost done and then it would disappear.
Speaker 3: Or maybe that was an excuse I used. I don't remember.
Speaker 3: But the memory card they obviously recover.
Speaker 1: They have their own Taru person and they recover these
Speaker 1: photos that are all these sexual photos of Travis and Jody,
Speaker 1: and then these kind of aready type photos of Travis
Speaker 1: in the shower, like him with his arms up or
Speaker 1: like leaning against the tile with the water running on him.
Speaker 1: You can see all these photos in the slide show.
Speaker 1: And then there's literally a photo of his body on
Speaker 1: the floor of the bathroom, bloody and like have being
Speaker 1: just been attacked. So like it's very crazy because you're
Speaker 1: just scrolling, scrolling, and like it's like larty photo, arty photo,
Speaker 1: and then just like a dead body, it's like or
Speaker 1: a suffering body, like it's I don't it's unclear if
Speaker 1: he's fully dead in the photo, but it's beyond it's
Speaker 1: really really nuts. So again I'm not I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to say that this podcast is Kara and Lisa's school
Speaker 1: for how to get away with murder. But like, why
Speaker 1: would you just like wash a digital camera and leave
Speaker 1: it there. Why wouldn't you're on your way to Utah
Speaker 1: to visit your other boyfriend. Why don't you just throw
Speaker 1: it out the window in the desert. I don't understand
Speaker 1: why this girl did this, but she thought I guess
Speaker 1: that water was just going to fully destroy the camera.
Speaker 1: She also stripped the beds and like washed all the sheets.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of strange stuff. But like then
Speaker 1: none of the blood was cleaned up. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: very or the bloody palm print, so all these photos
Speaker 1: are time stamped. The police know immediately that she's lying
Speaker 1: about not having seen him since April, that she was
Speaker 1: definitely with him the day that he died.
Speaker 3: And then the DNA results come.
Speaker 1: Back, and all the forensic results come back, and the
Speaker 1: hair belongs to Jody, and the bloody print had Jody's
Speaker 1: DNA and Trump and Travis's DNA.
Speaker 2: And in theory, she could have just went to hang
Speaker 2: out with another boyfriend and never called them or talked
Speaker 2: to them, and they would never have her DNA or
Speaker 2: find her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think once they found the pictures, they
Speaker 1: would have they would have brought her in, you know,
Speaker 1: on the camera.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if she took the camera, I'm saying if
Speaker 2: there was like oh yeah, if she took the camera,
Speaker 2: if she if she just took the camera and hung
Speaker 2: out and never talked to them, they would probably have
Speaker 2: not found her for a while or not found her yeah.
Speaker 1: Or yeah, because they would have had to have like
Speaker 1: a reason to get her DNA, Like I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's wild, like how she almost wanted to get caught,
Speaker 1: but she has this weird personality that you find out
Speaker 1: about more later that it's like did she just want
Speaker 1: to be like infamous and be famous in a way,
Speaker 1: Like it's she's very very strange person. So they have
Speaker 1: her in for interrogation and she's denying having anything to
Speaker 1: do with the murder. She's just like, I want to
Speaker 1: help you, guys, Like this is all on video. You
Speaker 1: can watch all of this, and it's like kind of fascinating.
Speaker 1: She's just like, yeah, I have no idea what happened.
Speaker 1: I want to help you, like what went on? And
Speaker 1: like so then she's talking to this detective, Detective Flores,
Speaker 1: and he basically like brings out the smoking gun eventually
Speaker 1: and is like, hey, we have these photos that are
Speaker 1: timestamped of you there, and there's a photo of him
Speaker 1: bleeding in the shower. And she's like, are you sure
Speaker 1: it's me in the photos? And it's like, yes, bitch,
Speaker 1: it's you in the photos. And then she changes her story,
Speaker 1: like on a dime, to tell this wild tale that
Speaker 1: is here on out referred to as the ninja story.
Speaker 1: And the ninja story is that two people in ski
Speaker 1: masks did a home invasion, entered the house to specifically
Speaker 1: attack Travis and kill Travis. So there's a man and
Speaker 1: a woman ninja. She fought the woman ninja, and the
Speaker 1: man ninja fought Travis, and she said they killed Travis.
Speaker 1: She heard the gun go off. She kind of blacked out.
Speaker 1: She doesn't remember a lot of stuff that happened. And
Speaker 1: then the woman she was able to push past them
Speaker 1: or something like that, and they were like, just you
Speaker 1: leave and never tell anyone this happened. Like they came
Speaker 1: in to murder Travis and let a complete.
Speaker 3: Witness just leave. That's what her story is.
Speaker 1: And the investigator is straight up like, okay, bitch, that's
Speaker 1: the craziest shit.
Speaker 3: I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: This is like, not true, and then he tells her
Speaker 1: that they're going to book her, and she goes, I
Speaker 1: know this is going to sound like really weird or shallow,
Speaker 1: but is there any way I can clean myself up
Speaker 1: a little bit before you take my mugshot and like
Speaker 1: my book like book me? And he's like, no, you're
Speaker 1: going in a you are like, we're not giving you
Speaker 1: a hair and makeup sessh before you get your fucking
Speaker 1: like mugshot taken. And then the detective leaves her alone
Speaker 1: in the room and you can see this all on
Speaker 1: YouTube or on like the twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Special I watched about this case.
Speaker 1: She starts acting crazy like and this reminds me of
Speaker 1: Amanda an Ox a little bit. You know how Amanda
Speaker 1: Knox case, Like she was her roommate had just been murdered,
Speaker 1: and she was like making out with her boyfriend and
Speaker 1: doing cartwheels and shit on the side. Like it is
Speaker 1: weird behavior, But with Jody Arius, it's even stranger because
Speaker 1: she's like in police custody and they've just told her
Speaker 1: we're going to book you.
Speaker 3: She like puts her whole body back over her chair.
Speaker 1: And does this weird like yoga backbend over her chair
Speaker 1: that is like weirdly sexual. And then she starts singing,
Speaker 1: Oh Holy Night. She's just like singing, which I have
Speaker 1: to admit as a Jew. That is my favorite Christmas song.
Speaker 1: I do love a Holy Night, And now she's kind
Speaker 1: of fucking ruined it for me because I'm going to
Speaker 1: think about her every time I hear it.
Speaker 3: And then she does a headstaine. She does a full headstand.
Speaker 3: Jingle bells, Oh I love I like.
Speaker 1: Jingle bells, but oh Holy Night is my is my favorite.
Speaker 1: I just think it's a beautiful song.
Speaker 3: She sounds like a mad TV character. No, she's happens so.
Speaker 1: Strange, Like she's so strange, and it's very bizarre and performative,
Speaker 1: like she must know people are watching.
Speaker 3: She might, you know, Like it's just so weird.
Speaker 1: She does a full head stand up against the wall
Speaker 1: and it's very weird. So if you want to google
Speaker 1: Jody Area's headstand, you can watch the whole video. Is
Speaker 1: it a good headstand? Yeah, I mean she's very fit.
Speaker 1: You know, you can tell that she works out. She's
Speaker 1: very thin, and like, you know, she just goes right
Speaker 1: up in this graceful headstand and you're just like damn girl,
Speaker 1: but also you crazy. So while she awaits trial, she
Speaker 1: does all these interviews. Okay, so in her first interviews,
Speaker 1: she maintains her innocent. She's like, God knows, I'm innocent.
Speaker 1: I know I'm innocent. I had nothing to do with
Speaker 1: his murder. I would never hurt him. He was my friend.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: A year in two thousand and nine, she starts giving
Speaker 1: interviews about the ninja story. Okay, well, no, I mean
Speaker 1: people are maybe believing this.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It really makes no fucking sense. December of twenty ten,
Speaker 1: which is crazy. She's now in jail like a year
Speaker 1: and a half, just like a waiting trial and obviously
Speaker 1: not getting bail because of the heinous nature of the crime.
Speaker 1: In December of twenty ten, she beats out fifty other
Speaker 1: inmates in an American Idol style Christmas caroling contest with
Speaker 1: her rendition of a Holy Night, and the contest is
Speaker 1: held by Joe Arpaio, that fucking cowboys sheriff, that Trump
Speaker 1: liked America's toughest sheriff, and the prize that she won
Speaker 1: was a stocking full of like treats and a turkey
Speaker 1: dinner for herself and her cellmates.
Speaker 3: So I saw that's also there's also a video of that.
Speaker 3: She's okay. I wouldn't give her a record contract, but
Speaker 3: she's a fine singer. I love this case.
Speaker 1: I'm so sad about the murder and whatever transpired, but
Speaker 1: I'm very into the antics.
Speaker 3: It's so crazy. It's antic central, and I don't.
Speaker 2: Understand why SVU and throw us a singing competition in
Speaker 2: this episode. Let's get Lena in jail, but it's like
Speaker 2: X Factor because they have to change it a little bit.
Speaker 2: So it's just like inmates turning around in their chairs
Speaker 2: being like I pick you.
Speaker 1: And so she's giving all these interviews. She's like winning
Speaker 1: American Idol contest in jail. She's just getting all this
Speaker 1: press and like, obviously Travis's family is like devastated.
Speaker 3: They loved him. You can tell how much they loved.
Speaker 1: Him in all these interviews, Like and then they see
Speaker 1: this pretty young woman getting all this media coverage and
Speaker 1: it must have just been very devastating for them to
Speaker 1: have to see her all the time.
Speaker 3: And I mean it gets worse.
Speaker 1: Let me get to what is her third and final
Speaker 1: version of her story, which is that she claims that
Speaker 1: she was the victim of domestic violence and that she
Speaker 1: was that she killed Travis in self defense. And one
Speaker 1: more thing, she claims that Travis was a pedophile. She
Speaker 1: claims that he wrote her letters where he confessed to
Speaker 1: his attraction to young boys and girls.
Speaker 3: The letters were like never found or I think a
Speaker 3: judge tried to.
Speaker 1: Have them admitted, and they were not admitted because I
Speaker 1: don't think they were real.
Speaker 3: And they found nothing on.
Speaker 1: His computers, like nothing in his house that showed that
Speaker 1: he might have had these kind of proclivities or you
Speaker 1: know that he was into that kind of thing. She
Speaker 1: claims that the day of the murder, she walked in
Speaker 1: he was masturbating to a picture of a young boy.
Speaker 1: They never found the picture. Is that something you grabbed
Speaker 1: on your way out of the house, Like the photo
Speaker 1: was never there. So basically, her third and final version
Speaker 1: of the story is that she did kill him in
Speaker 1: self defense.
Speaker 3: I'll get into it a little bit more later.
Speaker 1: And then she tries to completely attack his character and
Speaker 1: for his family, like they talk about it in this
Speaker 1: documentary twenty twenty, thing like where that was so hard
Speaker 1: for them. Not only have you lost this family member,
Speaker 1: but now his killer is painting this insane picture of
Speaker 1: him that's not true, and that is like disrespectful and horrible.
Speaker 1: So her trial begins on January second of twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: and she's a totally different looking person. This is again
Speaker 1: something they borrow a SVU. Like, she's not blonde anymore.
Speaker 1: She's got this dark, dark brunette hair. She's got bad bangs, glasses,
Speaker 1: Cardigan City. And I want to say she looks like
Speaker 1: a librarian, but we have a lot of librarian listeners
Speaker 1: who are probably hot, so maybe this is an outdated reference,
Speaker 1: but you do get my point. She is definitely playing
Speaker 1: up the like mousey. Like in all the photos of
Speaker 1: her and Travis, you never see her wearing glasses, and
Speaker 1: suddenly in court she's got like specs on every day
Speaker 1: and is like, oh, you know, like looking so meek
Speaker 1: and like trying to be cute. The prosecutor in this
Speaker 1: case is a man named Juan Martinez, and in his
Speaker 1: opening statement, he played part of this media interview she
Speaker 1: had given in the years prior where she said, mark
Speaker 1: my words, no jury will convict me. She later said
Speaker 1: that when she said that, she meant that she had
Speaker 1: been planning to end her life by suicide and that
Speaker 1: no jury will convict me because I won't be alive.
Speaker 1: But it's like, okay, okay, that's not how it came out.
Speaker 1: But I think obviously he's trying to use that to say,
Speaker 1: paint this picture of like a sociopath who is orchestrating
Speaker 1: a full defense of herself.
Speaker 3: That's not real. Yeah, that's what we forget.
Speaker 2: We always talk about how good like murderers are such
Speaker 2: good actors, but some are just bad liars and actors too,
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, this is a great example of
Speaker 2: someone who just really failed her improv one on one class,
Speaker 2: just can't get it together.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But she, I think believed like they were talking about
Speaker 1: when she was making up the ninja story, I mean
Speaker 1: she made that up on the spot because that she
Speaker 1: made that up right after she said I wasn't there
Speaker 1: and I didn't do anything. When they confronted her, she
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, here's what happened with the ninjas. It's like,
Speaker 1: so she either had that pre prepared or she made
Speaker 1: it up on the spot. And like, even though it
Speaker 1: was a batshit story, the detective was like, she did
Speaker 1: have a lot of details, Like she knew a lot
Speaker 1: of details, but you know, still not good enough. One
Speaker 1: crazy thing that the detective testified about. Detective Flores said
Speaker 1: that Jody had written a check to Travis for two
Speaker 1: hundred dollars for like a car payment before he died,
Speaker 1: and she really wanted to know if he had cashed
Speaker 1: it before he died, like over two hundred dollars. She
Speaker 1: emails his sister about the check to offer her condolences
Speaker 1: and find out about the check. Needless to say, the
Speaker 1: sister never replied. I just had This doesn't have much
Speaker 1: to do with anything. I just thought it was an
Speaker 1: interesting tidbit. So here was what made this trial so
Speaker 1: crazy is that she testified in her own defense, and
Speaker 1: that was something she insisted on. She insisted on testifying,
Speaker 1: and she testified for eighteen days, which is like unprecedented.
Speaker 3: Apparently, like I it's.
Speaker 1: Maybe happened before, but it's not a common thing, especially
Speaker 1: in a case that's getting so much media coverage. And
Speaker 1: I think she thought I got to get my face
Speaker 1: out there, I got to be heard. He once people
Speaker 1: see how like cute and like shy and demure I am,
Speaker 1: they'll never think that I could have done such a
Speaker 1: heinous crime, and so her defense that what she testifies
Speaker 1: about on the stand is that Travis freaked out when
Speaker 1: she dropped camera and that she had to defend herself.
Speaker 1: She says he screamed at her, kicked her, and body
Speaker 1: slammed her. But they brought in other witnesses, people that
Speaker 1: had dated him, and like, no one in his life
Speaker 1: ever said he had a temper.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think there are cases like this
Speaker 1: where men can show a different side, you know, of themselves.
Speaker 1: But like they brought in other women he dated, They
Speaker 1: brought in next girlfriends. They were like, never, never, ever,
Speaker 1: did he ever do anything remotely violent or show a
Speaker 1: temper towards me. Obviously there's only the two people in
Speaker 1: a relationship know what goes on in that relationship. But
Speaker 1: you're not getting it's not we're not getting a picture
Speaker 1: that this is an abusive guy. And then later the
Speaker 1: jury foreman, whose name was William Zervakos, he said that
Speaker 1: he thinks the eighteen days on the stand hurt her.
Speaker 1: He was like, she's not a good witness, Like it
Speaker 1: was not good for her to be on the stand
Speaker 1: for that long, and like just she just gave the
Speaker 1: prosecution so much, Amuli, I.
Speaker 2: Wish she broke out into song that way. I know
Speaker 2: that would have really since this is my favorite case
Speaker 2: of her.
Speaker 1: She was like, there's one song that can express how
Speaker 1: I feel, and then she like sings Lady Marmaline.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Arizona is one of the states where jurors are allowed
Speaker 1: to ask questions after the prosecution and the defense have rested.
Speaker 1: They asked a hundred questions, and that really showed how
Speaker 1: skeptical they were about her testimony. So there was a
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist for the prosecution named Janine Demart. Her name
Speaker 1: is spelled j A N E E N. A very
Speaker 1: interesting take on Janine, and she said that there was
Speaker 1: no evidence that Alexander had ever abused Arius and no
Speaker 1: evidence of PTSD or amnesia, and that she claimed all
Speaker 1: this total memory loss like for this long period of time,
Speaker 1: which is kind of inconsistent with how traumatic amnesia works
Speaker 1: with PTSD, Like I think it's more snatches of memory,
Speaker 1: whereas she's like, yeah, and then just for four hours,
Speaker 1: I don't remember anything, Like that's kind of not how
Speaker 1: it works. So this clinical psychologist said she thought that
Speaker 1: Arius was suffering from borderline personality disorder and showed signs
Speaker 1: of immaturity and quote an unstable sense of identity. And
Speaker 1: I think that is true when you watch some of
Speaker 1: the docs about her and stuff, like when she met Travis,
Speaker 1: she kind of didn't know what she was doing with
Speaker 1: her life, like she wanted to be a photographer, but
Speaker 1: that wasn't really working out, and then she I think
Speaker 1: got a job for prepaid legal and that's how she
Speaker 1: met him, and so she was kind of trying to
Speaker 1: figure out, you know, who she was. And then I
Speaker 1: think converting to Mormonism two months after you meet someone
Speaker 1: as a red flag, Like she didn't have any idea
Speaker 1: who she was, and it's probably part of a larger diagnosis.
Speaker 1: But so then after the trial finally concluded on May seventh,
Speaker 1: so it started on January second, so it's like a
Speaker 1: five month trial, the media is wrapped. After fifteen hours
Speaker 1: of deliberation, Arius has found guilty of first degree murder,
Speaker 1: and out of twelve jurors, five of them found her
Speaker 1: guilty of first degree premeditated murder and seven her guilty
Speaker 1: of both first degree premeditated murder and felony murder. And
Speaker 1: then the next phase of her trial was the death
Speaker 1: penalty because.
Speaker 3: People really wanted her to get the death penalty.
Speaker 1: The first trial for her death penalty sentencing was like
Speaker 1: a mistrial because, like I think, the jury just could
Speaker 1: not decide, and then eventually she was given life in prison,
Speaker 1: so she was able to avoid the death penalty. She
Speaker 1: did testify it her death penalty hearing, saying I've designed
Speaker 1: a T shirt and it's like this white T shirt
Speaker 1: that just says survivor and purple on it, and it's
Speaker 1: just like everything about her rings inauthentically. You know, it's like,
Speaker 1: no one not thought you were a domestic abuse survivor
Speaker 1: until this case happened, and now you're just making this
Speaker 1: weird slapshot T shirt that's like that's what you're going
Speaker 1: to sell or something like.
Speaker 3: She was very strange. She would have actually done good
Speaker 3: out here in the world.
Speaker 1: Oh, she was doing merch. Girl, she has she was
Speaker 1: doing merch. Her brothers opened an eBay account where she
Speaker 1: sells art she makes in prison.
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of shit this girl is doing.
Speaker 1: So does she have like lover fans like male killers do,
Speaker 1: like our people.
Speaker 3: I'm sure, I'm.
Speaker 1: Sure I didn't read anything about that, but like, I
Speaker 1: am sure that she does.
Speaker 2: How do you think our friend Joyce Arts Management will
Speaker 2: react when I start buying Jody arias?
Speaker 1: Do you think they can get d I would love
Speaker 1: to find out from her how serial killer art is like,
Speaker 1: or killer art is like valued, and how it appreciates
Speaker 1: over time.
Speaker 5: I do have to know Jody did have a boyfriend
Speaker 5: for a while. I remember that in NGEL. Yeah, I
Speaker 5: would visit it a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure like she's I mean,
Speaker 1: she's like a cute girl, Like I'm sure people were like,
Speaker 1: you're so she also and this might.
Speaker 2: Be rude because like, obviously it's sad this man is dead.
Speaker 2: But I do wonder if the victim was a woman
Speaker 2: not a guy, if they would have used her sexual.
Speaker 1: Kinks against her to be like she deserved it. No,
Speaker 1: I know, And I wonder. I think that what everybody
Speaker 1: was saying was like this case was so it was
Speaker 1: so popular because it was like dripping with sex.
Speaker 3: That's like what the people were saying, like there was
Speaker 3: just so much sex.
Speaker 1: There's so many text messages where they're like she's like
Speaker 1: we're just horny toads, Like I want to fuck you
Speaker 1: so bad, like my pussy's wet, Like she sends all
Speaker 1: these crazy texts. There's recorded message, Like there's recorded phone
Speaker 1: conversations though that are recorded because she recorded them to
Speaker 1: use them against him later, Like she would record these
Speaker 1: sexual conversations with him, like I think in a way
Speaker 1: to say, like if you ever leave me, I'll send
Speaker 1: these to.
Speaker 3: The Mormon church.
Speaker 1: So she had some issues, and I yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think that anyone's like sexual kinks should be used against them,
Speaker 1: But I think because of the Mormon community that she
Speaker 1: was in and the fact that she was doing all
Speaker 1: this other possessive, crazy shit, it all kind of paints
Speaker 1: a picture of a person who's not fully with it.
Speaker 1: I did want to mention that they tried to appeal
Speaker 1: this case, saying, you know, because of the media, she
Speaker 1: didn't get a fair trial, and also because Juan Martinez,
Speaker 1: who I mentioned, was the prosecutor. He got into some
Speaker 1: trouble because he was accused of leaking the identity of
Speaker 1: one of the jurors and sexually harassing female law clerks
Speaker 1: in his office. Like apparently he had a real my
Speaker 1: eyes are up here one kind of problem, like he
Speaker 1: would literally just stare at women's chests and is built
Speaker 1: in his office, and women in his office would like
Speaker 1: always kind of like duck into conference rooms when he
Speaker 1: was around because they didn't want to deal with his leering.
Speaker 1: But I think he ended up getting disbarred because of
Speaker 1: he was in a sexual relationship with a blogger that
Speaker 1: he leaked this jurors information. Again, blogs huge part of
Speaker 1: this case. So in the end, she is still in
Speaker 1: jail in Arizona. Apparently she started a Twitter account and
Speaker 1: wrote I don't know if I'm going to plea or appeal,
Speaker 1: and that was late in twenty fifteen, I think.
Speaker 3: But she's still in jail.
Speaker 1: And I even after the disbarment of this prosecutor, the
Speaker 1: judges who decide whether she's going to get an appeal said,
Speaker 1: even though he had egregious behavior, you were convicted like completely.
Speaker 3: Correctly, and you're not going anywhere. Baby. I wonder if
Speaker 3: she's popular in prison.
Speaker 2: I am obsessed with her, Like I do understand the
Speaker 2: commotion the world had, yeah, and I want to know, like.
Speaker 3: Is she like, damn, that wasn't worth it.
Speaker 2: I'm in jail, or she like still thinks she's innocent,
Speaker 2: or is she just crushing it? In jail and she's
Speaker 2: so crazy that it doesn't matter, and she's living in
Speaker 2: a fantasyland like I just want to know everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's very chaotic and art good or gen z.
Speaker 1: But I think that is what drop people to it,
Speaker 1: like what you're just like full and you get the
Speaker 1: feeling that she believes everything that she's saying because like
Speaker 1: in her mind maybe it's true, but she It just
Speaker 1: to me is like the whole They dated for four months,
Speaker 1: you know, and I know that they kept up the
Speaker 1: sexual relationship, but the murder. And I will say, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna go look up this slide show that I
Speaker 1: am referencing and that will be in our show notes.
Speaker 1: The graphic the photos of the crime scene are very graphic,
Speaker 1: like they do show his body, and like it's just
Speaker 1: so such an aggressive crime. It wasn't just like if
Speaker 1: I can't have you, no one can, I'm gonna shoot
Speaker 1: you in the head, Like just the stabbing. I mean,
Speaker 1: like there is anger in this murder. So it's like, ugh,
Speaker 1: I don't know what, Yeah, like.
Speaker 2: Was it about him or would she have killed someone
Speaker 2: else the next boyfriend?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, who knows?
Speaker 1: Wow, But I think it's it's interesting how SBU did
Speaker 1: sort of like this. They took this case, but this
Speaker 1: case is very like Arizona Mormons, like they so they
Speaker 1: took whatever they could and like put it in a
Speaker 1: New York setting, you know, in the SV episode. But
Speaker 1: it is just like I always want to believe women,
Speaker 1: and I do think that it is a small, small,
Speaker 1: small percentage of people like this that are or like
Speaker 1: the Lena character, that are fully inventing a scenario and
Speaker 1: having up you.
Speaker 3: Know, psychology.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I always say, like, you know, people lie
Speaker 2: about being robbed or insurance scams or so many different crimes,
Speaker 2: and it never takes away the legitimacy of other people
Speaker 2: who have been robbed. And I don't understand how only
Speaker 2: in rape and sexual assault cases are a few like
Speaker 2: this tiny population that lies is not just seen as like, oh,
Speaker 2: these people are unwell and committing other crimes. Yeah, sent
Speaker 2: women lie, but it's like Ryan Lochtey straight up was
Speaker 2: like I got robbed during the Olympics, fully lied and
Speaker 2: no one cared and everyone just believed him anyways, And
Speaker 2: everyone can still say they're robbed and it doesn't it
Speaker 2: mean that men lie.
Speaker 3: And so it is very annoying that like.
Speaker 1: Why the small percentage of women suddenly represent all the
Speaker 1: women that are attacked.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know why patriarchy, but no, that is
Speaker 3: such a good point.
Speaker 1: I never thought about that, Like this is the only
Speaker 1: kind of case where like the bad actions of a
Speaker 1: few affect the many. Yeah, as like that doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, like wrongful accusations of robbery or like
Speaker 1: larceny or fucking tax evasion or whatever. I think it
Speaker 1: because it's always it's always couched as this crazy bitch
Speaker 1: is trying to take this man's life down, is trying
Speaker 1: to ruin this man's life, and it's like in this case, yes,
Speaker 1: but that is a very small percentage.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 5: The topic of religion also is interesting.
Speaker 3: Of Travis. Alexander was a very devout man.
Speaker 5: He wore like a ring I think for like being
Speaker 5: a verge, and then he fell in love I think,
Speaker 5: or had this passionate thing for Jodie, and.
Speaker 3: So he was torn.
Speaker 5: But he broke it up because he was like, I
Speaker 5: know I'm doing something wrong, but he was so yeahing
Speaker 5: towards her, like it makes I don't know, I just
Speaker 5: feel like the idea of religion as a thing.
Speaker 3: No, it's so true.
Speaker 1: Really, the whole the religion thing does add like another
Speaker 1: layer to it because it's like in any other world,
Speaker 1: if he wasn't religious, he could have just like been
Speaker 1: having sex with this woman or wouldn't have been the
Speaker 1: shame and they could just be horny for each other.
Speaker 3: But I mean I.
Speaker 1: Think also, yeah, I think it was like another It
Speaker 1: was probably another thing where that made Jody feel inadequate
Speaker 1: or like an outsider and probably fueled like the rage more,
Speaker 1: you know, like I got baptized for you, you son
Speaker 1: of a bitch?
Speaker 3: Like who knows? You know, like what, who knows what
Speaker 3: went through her mind?
Speaker 1: I hope I would love for her to do some
Speaker 1: kind of like jailhouse confessional and say, like here's what
Speaker 1: I was thinking, or like, you know, you're not getting
Speaker 1: out of jail anytime in your life, so you might
Speaker 1: as well give us some insight into what the hell
Speaker 1: was going through your mind, Like did you drive there
Speaker 1: specifically to do that? Did it like just hit you
Speaker 1: at some point or did he say did he say
Speaker 1: that's the last time.
Speaker 3: We're ever doing this or something?
Speaker 1: After you guys had all this horny sex and then
Speaker 1: you were like, you know, like I don't know, Well,
Speaker 1: we won't know until she tells us.
Speaker 3: Or were their ninjas, you know? Or were their ninjas? Lisa.
Speaker 1: This is like when that guy in that episode said
Speaker 1: I saw ghosts of the KKK in the hallway and
Speaker 1: you were like, we can't say he didn't. So the
Speaker 1: ninjas could also be The ninjas could also be real.
Speaker 3: Well, we have a hot ass guest. Can't wait?
Speaker 1: Yeah, excited, stick around. We'll be right back with our guest,
Speaker 1: our next guest. We're so excited to bring you this chat.
Speaker 1: He is a stage actor who originated the role of
Speaker 1: Greg in Neil Abute's Reasons to Be Pretty, where he
Speaker 1: was nominated for a Tony and you know him from
Speaker 1: TV from HBO's The Newsroom and Life in Pieces, but
Speaker 1: on SVU you know him as Nate Davis. Check out
Speaker 1: our chat with the very talented Thomas Sadowski.
Speaker 2: We did watch all of your episodes, so if you
Speaker 2: want to talk about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're a three pete defender on SVO.
Speaker 1: Murder Douche and then you come back to redeem yourself.
Speaker 4: A little bit, right. I actually managed to show up
Speaker 4: and get a little bit of a yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 4: did the the Sbu gambit. I think I did the
Speaker 4: trifecta of all the Law and Order shows, if I
Speaker 4: remembered quickly, I did the original recipe, Extra Crispy and
Speaker 4: the Colonel's Blend. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of actors we talked to say that
Speaker 2: it's like a rite of passage to get on the
Speaker 2: Law and Order shows. As a New York actor, did
Speaker 2: you feel that way when you got booked?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, for sure. I mean, not only is it
Speaker 4: a right of passage, but particularly like when I first
Speaker 4: started coming up in the business in the late nineties
Speaker 4: and early two thousands, there wasn't a whole lot of
Speaker 4: stuff that was shooting in New York. And like definitely
Speaker 4: post nine to eleven, like there wasn't really anything that
Speaker 4: was shooting in like the industry bailed on New York.
Speaker 4: So the only people that were really stuck around it
Speaker 4: was like Rescue Me and Dick Woolf, like all of
Speaker 4: his shows were the only ones that stuck in New York.
Speaker 4: So for theater actors, for actors, but you know, primarily
Speaker 4: for theater actors, you know, who were making four hundred
Speaker 4: dollars a week off Broadway, you know, before taxes and
Speaker 4: union dues, those those shows like literally kept people in
Speaker 4: their homes, you know. So to get to get hired
Speaker 4: on on a Law and Order gig was a life saver.
Speaker 4: And it was a total rite of passage, you know.
Speaker 4: And and it's one of those great things where you know,
Speaker 4: after you've done it and you've joined the I don't
Speaker 4: call it the fraternity, but you join the you know,
Speaker 4: you join the club. Anywhere you go in the world,
Speaker 4: you can turn on one of the Law and Orders
Speaker 4: and you can see, you know, some of your old
Speaker 4: friends from back in the back in the city like
Speaker 4: doing their thing. Yeah, it's it's it's an amazing little world.
Speaker 4: I for for the rest of my days, I will
Speaker 4: appreciate mister Woolf for what he did for the city
Speaker 4: and for actors in the city, and for none and
Speaker 4: for you know, writers and the crew. Not a lot
Speaker 4: of people have had the the decency to stick around
Speaker 4: after the eleventh when we when we really needed people,
Speaker 4: and he did so for all the ups and downs
Speaker 4: in his weird pink socks. I really like the guy.
Speaker 3: Wait, what are the weird Wait?
Speaker 4: Okay, So every time I've ever gone into meet with
Speaker 4: Dick Wolf. He's been wearing pink socks.
Speaker 3: Wow, goop.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's like a daily thing or
Speaker 4: if it's just one of those weird coincidences in my life,
Speaker 4: but I always associate I always associated mister Wolf of
Speaker 4: pink socks.
Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna say, not only are all your
Speaker 2: friends are on SVU, but your wife Amanda has been
Speaker 2: on SVU.
Speaker 3: Have you seen her episode?
Speaker 4: I have seen her episode. We were actually talking about
Speaker 4: it when I told her I was doing this podcast
Speaker 4: that was well SVU and she was like, she was like,
Speaker 4: I did this for you, and I'm like, I know
Speaker 4: you did this for you, Like Michael O'Keefe played your father.
Speaker 1: No, and we found Michael O'Keeffe as one of our
Speaker 1: first guests on the podcast, and both of.
Speaker 4: You guys, oh, that's very nice. I should hope you
Speaker 4: had Michael on the Patent podcast because he literally there
Speaker 4: was a rule that was put in place called the foul.
Speaker 4: Did he tell you about this?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: He told us, Okay, good, Yeah, Yeah. He should have
Speaker 4: been like among the first guests you ever had because
Speaker 4: he is mister lawn order. I think he's the only
Speaker 4: person who has appeared on those shows as much as
Speaker 4: like Maloney or Marishka or you know or Sam or
Speaker 4: any of the old school heavies. But yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 4: love Michael. He's a great dude, he's a he's a
Speaker 4: good friend family.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so basically you did do you did do original
Speaker 1: recipe and then you did this Criminal Intent all before
Speaker 1: you did this view. So by the time you did
Speaker 1: this view where they just like calling you in being
Speaker 1: like we want you to do this part.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Yeah, So Warren called me, Warren like called
Speaker 4: me for SEU and said, like, you know, do you
Speaker 4: want to come in and play this part opposite Kelly?
Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, totally absolutely, and he was like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, it might come back and
Speaker 4: might not. I'm not sure what the deal is going
Speaker 4: to be with it whatever, And I was like okay,
Speaker 4: So I agreed to come in and do it, and
Speaker 4: we had a blast shooting the first episode and they
Speaker 4: sort of mentioned like, yeah, I think we'll probably do
Speaker 4: this again. But I Warren and I from like from
Speaker 4: the jump, from like my first day on set, we
Speaker 4: were in like a tiff, a little tussle about that hat.
Speaker 3: That we have like three questions about the hat.
Speaker 4: I'm sure you do. I had many as well. I
Speaker 4: was like, I was like, Warren, why do I have
Speaker 4: to wear this douche hat? And he was like, because
Speaker 4: you're a douche And I was like no, but can
Speaker 4: I take it off in some of these scenes? And
Speaker 4: he was like, no, you're a douche, so you wear
Speaker 4: the douche hat. And I was like, bro, like, I'm
Speaker 4: really unhappy with the douche hat. And it was like,
Speaker 4: I kind of don't care, Like I think it it
Speaker 4: has to be on all the time. And we had
Speaker 4: a lot of fun of knocking it back and forth.
Speaker 4: But I, you know, I sort of like a cringe
Speaker 4: at the prospect of people going back and watching those
Speaker 4: episodes of that hat.
Speaker 3: That is so funny.
Speaker 1: We literally have like in our list of questions, like so, uh,
Speaker 1: you play a douchebag a bunch of times?
Speaker 3: How do you like to? Because the hat really does
Speaker 3: the layer. There were so many layers.
Speaker 4: Yes, so many layers. I threatened to throw that hat
Speaker 4: into the East River. There was a scene I think
Speaker 4: we were shooting outside.
Speaker 3: You were like walking her dog right by.
Speaker 4: The room, walking her dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 4: and we we shot that like you know, like oh
Speaker 4: dark hundred, so it was wick and cold, and I
Speaker 4: remember threatening Warren like, if you think for a second
Speaker 4: that you're going to have me back a second episode
Speaker 4: and make me wear this hat, I'm going to go
Speaker 4: throw it in the river right now. And he was like,
Speaker 4: do you think we only bought one?
Speaker 1: When you did come back that same season in the
Speaker 1: Gridiron Soldier episode, I.
Speaker 3: Don't think you have the hat anymore?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Did you win the battle?
Speaker 4: I eventually won the battle. Well, I think what ended
Speaker 4: up happening is because there's a little bit of redemption
Speaker 4: coming my way in that episode is that he felt
Speaker 4: like if we kept the hat that I couldn't be redeemed.
Speaker 3: Exactly impossible to guess redevable.
Speaker 4: It is unforgivable. Absolutely, it is a blight upon humanity
Speaker 4: and all who wear it are cursed. But that's really
Speaker 4: how I differentiate my douchey characters that I played throughout
Speaker 4: my career is just different hats and invests.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was just wondering, because you know, when
Speaker 1: when we were finding out we were interviewing you, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I remember him. I think I first
Speaker 1: saw you in The Slap That was like the first
Speaker 1: thing I saw you in.
Speaker 3: And your character is a little bit of a in
Speaker 3: the Slap, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, he's not the most pleasant guy at
Speaker 4: the beginning, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I was just wondering. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we got we got the slap guy. We got this character.
Speaker 1: Like do you feel like you often get cast in
Speaker 1: these juicy roles or like you're you're good at it?
Speaker 1: And like where do you get your inspiration from? Do
Speaker 1: you know a lot of douches in your real life? Yeah,
Speaker 1: if there's any names you can name, yeah, names, you know.
Speaker 4: It started to become like I started to get worried
Speaker 4: at a certain point where I was like, I was like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, is this how the world perceives me?
Speaker 4: And I you know, I actually think weirdly that in
Speaker 4: some strange way that it is the way that the
Speaker 4: world kind of perceives me people who don't know me,
Speaker 4: because like they've they they've seen you know a couple
Speaker 4: of things that I've done, the Law and Orders and
Speaker 4: the Slab and you know, in the early seasons in
Speaker 4: the newsroom, and you know, some of the movie and
Speaker 4: stuff that I've done, and I very often in my
Speaker 4: film career have been asked to play these sort of
Speaker 4: shithead characters. And it's so funny because in my theater
Speaker 4: career it's the exact opposite.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, like the nice guy on stage.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I Oh. So it was when I first
Speaker 4: started doing film, it was like, Oh, what a welcome change,
Speaker 4: Like I get to play these this, these shitty guys
Speaker 4: that I love making fun of because I grew up
Speaker 4: around a lot of them. And then all of a
Speaker 4: sudden it became like, oh, I keep on getting cast
Speaker 4: uh in film as this, and most people know me
Speaker 4: outside of New York from filmwork. Obviously not a lot
Speaker 4: of people have seen off Broadway theater outside of New
Speaker 4: York City, and so in an even Broadway, you know,
Speaker 4: and so like it. I was like, it's this weird
Speaker 4: juxtaposition I've had to sort of negotiating throughout my career.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean, I the inspiration for me for
Speaker 4: these people comes from, you know, a lot of people
Speaker 4: that I grew up with, and then a shocking number
Speaker 4: of people that I meet in the industry, particularly early on,
Speaker 4: Like like I said, I came up in the late
Speaker 4: nineties and early two thousands, sort of at the height
Speaker 4: of the Weinstein power march, you know, when when you know,
Speaker 4: Harvey used to like call an ex girlfriend of mine
Speaker 4: at like two or three o'clock in the morning and
Speaker 4: leave like really gnarly messages on her voicemail, like her
Speaker 4: answering machine. Like long enough ago to where we had
Speaker 4: answering machines, right and you could hear them, and like,
Speaker 4: you know, there was like a whole way of behaving,
Speaker 4: and there was a like a a generation of young
Speaker 4: actor men that were coming up at that time who
Speaker 4: were sort of highlighted by these dudes who like, like
Speaker 4: you know, come across there's like sweet, funny kind of guys,
Speaker 4: but we're actually sociopaths. And I just I really like
Speaker 4: enjoyed watching those people and then taking the piss out
Speaker 4: of them, at least in my own head by playing
Speaker 4: these parts. And then you know, it was also just
Speaker 4: sort of fun, like it's it's it's sometimes it's fun
Speaker 4: to be the bad guys. Sometimes it's fun to be
Speaker 4: the jackass that like nobody likes. Like I grew up
Speaker 4: in a small, very hyper religious conservative town in Texas,
Speaker 4: and I, you know, am not that at all, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Like I was a kid who
Speaker 4: had like a big giant queue in terms of my
Speaker 4: sexuality in my teen years, you know, and was just like,
Speaker 4: I don't know what I am. I like, you know,
Speaker 4: I like pretty people, like there are a lot of them,
Speaker 4: and I don't care what they're plumbing says, like, you know.
Speaker 4: And so it was just like it was a so
Speaker 4: like I kind of come preloaded with this weird anti
Speaker 4: authoritarianism streak, you know, where I just like I kind
Speaker 4: of enjoy like poking people in the eye and making
Speaker 4: them uncomfortable, particularly people from that world. And so like
Speaker 4: there was a part of me that like, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't know, I just get a kick out of it.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm acting like you and you don't even
Speaker 4: know it.
Speaker 3: Did you do theater in high school?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, for sure. I actually got kicked out of
Speaker 4: my high school theater program.
Speaker 3: What did you do?
Speaker 4: Because our theater teacher wanted to do like these really
Speaker 4: intensely Christian plays And I was like that's bullshit, Like
Speaker 4: we're in a public high school. We can't do it.
Speaker 4: Like that doesn't seem right to me at all. And
Speaker 4: so like that started me off on the wrong track
Speaker 4: with her pretty early on, and then I just, yeah,
Speaker 4: I had a real hard time I had I didn't
Speaker 4: respect her at all, and I had a really hard
Speaker 4: time keep my mouth shut about it, you know. I mean,
Speaker 4: like I said, I was like this weird little punk
Speaker 4: rock kid in conservative talent. So, like, you know, me
Speaker 4: and my friends were big time theater rats, but we
Speaker 4: didn't really We saw it for what it should be
Speaker 4: instead of what it was actually being. And so there
Speaker 4: was a number of us that actually got removed from
Speaker 4: the program, which actually turned out to be the best
Speaker 4: thing that could have happened to me. I went out
Speaker 4: and started doing community theater I think the junior year
Speaker 4: of high school, and then people who ran the community
Speaker 4: theater in my little town were actually people. There's a
Speaker 4: wonderful man named Randy Wilson who was the original conscious
Speaker 4: pilot in Jesus Christ Superstar on Broadway Oh Wow, and
Speaker 4: then played Jesus Christ in the national tour. And so
Speaker 4: he was like this amazing professional theater rat and ended
Speaker 4: up in this small town because of like some family
Speaker 4: drama and creating this community theater there, and it just
Speaker 4: became like this safe space, this this amazing kind of
Speaker 4: songa of like little reprobates and miscreants, and we all
Speaker 4: just you know, we're there with each other, and it
Speaker 4: was like, you know, adults and young people, and we
Speaker 4: were all like just a little bit off and we
Speaker 4: were building sets and making theater together in this little
Speaker 4: building that used to be a Mexican restaurant in downtown Brian, Texas.
Speaker 3: And that's awesome.
Speaker 4: It was really beautiful.
Speaker 3: It's just such a.
Speaker 2: Nice like lesson in story to hear that you got
Speaker 2: kicked out of this thing but then found a community
Speaker 2: that you loved so much more and I got really lucky.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean I think that people you like finds
Speaker 4: like right, like, if you make yourself available to it,
Speaker 4: I think, and you persevere, you will eventually like you'll
Speaker 4: find your your equilibrium and you'll find your tribe so
Speaker 4: to speak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can I ask an ask you question again?
Speaker 3: Did you did you ever like watch the show?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I love Maloney, I love Marisca, Like they're fantastic,
Speaker 4: like truly truly amazing actors and so like, yeah, I
Speaker 4: definitely watched the show. Like I said, you know, when
Speaker 4: you go out of town, you like flip on and
Speaker 4: it's like makes you feel like you're home.
Speaker 3: You can't ever not find it. It's always on the road.
Speaker 1: And your first episode you were on, you were on
Speaker 1: a Marishka Maloney season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, although I think you may have been more.
Speaker 1: Of an Iced Tea heavy episode when you were in
Speaker 1: that episode anchor where you're like a racist. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: do you prep to be a child murderer? Yeah, when
Speaker 1: you remember when you murdered all those kids.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that was a nice heavy episode.
Speaker 3: And you called him a racial slur.
Speaker 4: I did, which was one of the I gotta tell you, dude,
Speaker 4: like in terms of days in your career, when you're
Speaker 4: like you don't really know if you want to wake
Speaker 4: up in the morning and go to work, Like that day,
Speaker 4: I was definitely I can't believe I have to go
Speaker 4: in and say this to Iced Tea to his face.
Speaker 4: Like I loved Iced Tea growing, you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: Like I still do. Yeah. I was a huge fan
Speaker 4: of him as a musician, and I was like, I
Speaker 4: can't believe that I have to go in and say
Speaker 4: this to him him, And like I wasn't sure how
Speaker 4: I was gonna if it would be cool if I
Speaker 4: went up to him and was like, dude, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like, I trust me, this
Speaker 4: makes me so uncomfortable if I should just do it
Speaker 4: or like what. And he was so generous and amazing
Speaker 4: and gracious and wonderful about it. And then there's a
Speaker 4: scene where he, uh he tackles me, like he stiff
Speaker 4: arms me over a desk right before he arrests me.
Speaker 4: And we ended up shooting that scene a lot, so
Speaker 4: I feel like he he kept on asking for more takes,
Speaker 4: so I sort of feel like he was really gracious
Speaker 4: on the front side and definitely worked it out on
Speaker 4: the backside of it.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: You did get like a razzle dazzle moment on the
Speaker 2: stand with Barbara.
Speaker 3: Barbara, I keep.
Speaker 1: Going over with the da and I was just wondering
Speaker 1: how that court scene was and like getting drilled like that.
Speaker 4: It's fun. I love I love Raoul. We're old like
Speaker 4: theater rat buddies. So like when I knew that we
Speaker 4: were going to get to go, you know, have like
Speaker 4: a good time back and forth. And Danny Pino too.
Speaker 4: You know, there was a in rapist Anonymous, there was
Speaker 4: I got to do a scene with Danny, Yeah, who
Speaker 4: came into the meeting at the end, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean and like sort of suss me out or whatever.
Speaker 4: And like I I've known Danny for god at this point,
Speaker 4: like twenty two years, and I've known Raoul for about
Speaker 4: as long too, and so like you know, when you
Speaker 4: get the opportunity to to like get up there and
Speaker 4: and have a good time with your buddies and you've
Speaker 4: known for a long time and who's work you respect,
Speaker 4: and there's just this sort of like fun thing that
Speaker 4: happens where it's like you go like ah, yeah, man,
Speaker 4: we're gonna we're gonna smack the ball back and forth,
Speaker 4: you know, and these these people in Des Moines ain't
Speaker 4: ready you know, ay ready, Like this is this is
Speaker 4: what we do down on Bleaker Street. This is you know,
Speaker 4: here we go, this is how this is how we do.
Speaker 4: And like and you get to have a good time
Speaker 4: with it, man, Like yeah, I really enjoyed that. Like
Speaker 4: I said, I love Rebel, I respect the hell out
Speaker 4: of it. So we we had a good song with
Speaker 4: that for sure. You know, it's a long order stand scene,
Speaker 4: like you know, it's, uh, that's a pretty cool thing
Speaker 4: to get to do. It's a it's a it's a
Speaker 4: it's you know, I feel like it's like an actor
Speaker 4: merit badge. You know, not only did you get them
Speaker 4: get the episode, but you've got a court scene. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like you got to be on the stand, Like that's
Speaker 4: the look.
Speaker 3: You got to be in that box. Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 4: Well, and like so many of them around to you
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Like I've known Warren as a
Speaker 4: playwright for forever, and I mean one of the great
Speaker 4: My first my first Law and Order of the franchise
Speaker 4: was with was in the original recipe, and it looked
Speaker 4: like I was gonna shoot Sam Waterston in that episode.
Speaker 4: There was there was a scene where like we're on
Speaker 4: the courthouse steps and I pull out a gun and
Speaker 4: like shoot the guy who's standing next to Sam. And
Speaker 4: when Sam and I started working together on the newsroom,
Speaker 4: like I came up to him and was like, hey, man,
Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember, but like a billion
Speaker 4: years ago, I played this part on Law and Order
Speaker 4: and you know I had to shoot you on the
Speaker 4: courthouse or almost shoot you on the courthouse steps or whatever.
Speaker 4: And Sam was like I was on that show forever
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. You'll have to forgive me. But I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't remember you at all. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's okay, I get it, but yeah, I and then
Speaker 4: get you know, years and years later. To get to
Speaker 4: work with Sam like as as sort of compatriots on
Speaker 4: the newsroom was a really cool thing. We got to
Speaker 4: be really close buddies after that, which is nice.
Speaker 1: So our listeners really our horny for Raoul and Danny
Speaker 1: and so do you have any like stories or tidbits
Speaker 1: from set or from life that you think they would
Speaker 1: really love to hear?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Raoul did a play on Broadway with
Speaker 4: Jeremy Piven, and Jeremy left the show.
Speaker 3: Was that speed the plow?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just sort of left them hanging, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean, like in the middle of the run
Speaker 4: because he got murcury repeats, Yeah.
Speaker 3: He got mercury poisoning from too much sushi.
Speaker 4: I'm eating too much sushi, right, And so we were
Speaker 4: doing a show on Broadway at the same time, me
Speaker 4: and Stephen Pasquale and Hyperparabo, and we're in Ireland. We're
Speaker 4: doing a show on Broadway at the same time. And
Speaker 4: after our shows we were having people like guest artists
Speaker 4: come in and like lead these q and as. And
Speaker 4: then and Raoul came in one night to do our
Speaker 4: guest Q and A and we bought him like four
Speaker 4: hundred dollars for this sushi tod to sit and eat
Speaker 4: at the as we were doing our Q and A.
Speaker 4: It was pretty fun.
Speaker 3: That is really funny.
Speaker 1: Now the show just closes because no one is in
Speaker 1: and everyone has had sushi poisoning.
Speaker 4: Exactly and weirdly, like none of us got mercury poisoning.
Speaker 4: We were all total with them. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, like I said, like I I've had the
Speaker 4: great experience of knowing these people as friends for a
Speaker 4: long long time and his colleagues, and like Raoul is
Speaker 4: one of those people that you know, he makes you like.
Speaker 4: Raoul and I were actually nominated against each other for
Speaker 4: Tony Awards one year. Oh really yeah, me and Raoul
Speaker 4: and James Gandelfini and Jeff Daniels wow uh and then
Speaker 4: the guy who won, Jeffrey Rush, and so like we
Speaker 4: got to spend like this whole weird like Theater Awards
Speaker 4: season together.
Speaker 3: And a good bunch.
Speaker 4: It was ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a grownd to be amongst for sure.
Speaker 4: It was ridiculous. Yeah, we got to spend a lot
Speaker 4: of quality time together with those guys. Except for Jeffrey,
Speaker 4: he was like really aloof and didn't hang out with anybody,
Speaker 4: But like Jimmy Candelfini and jeff and Rowell and I like,
Speaker 4: we got to know each other pretty well hanging out
Speaker 4: and doing all these functions and events and stuff. Roll
Speaker 4: is one of those guys that, like, he's one of
Speaker 4: those actors that I will He's one of those guys
Speaker 4: that makes me leave out of my chair at the
Speaker 4: end of a show. You know, I just think I
Speaker 4: think he's really really special.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we get sent a lot of clips of him
Speaker 1: from our listeners.
Speaker 3: They love him.
Speaker 1: They send us clips of him, like from a company
Speaker 1: I think, and like all kinds of that's like, you know,
Speaker 1: raises the hairs on your arms kind of performances.
Speaker 4: Now, he's he's pretty he's pretty ridiculous, as your listeners know.
Speaker 4: He's you know, for the people on this side of it,
Speaker 4: it's sort of like, okay, all right, come on, ask
Speaker 4: like save something for the rest of us, Like you know,
Speaker 4: you can't like you can't be that good looking, have
Speaker 4: that cool of a name, and be that talented in
Speaker 4: so many factss of your life all at the same time.
Speaker 4: It's kind of bullshit, like, could you at least be
Speaker 4: like Engelbert Home have just like a shitty name or
Speaker 4: like something like some sort of kryptonite. But he doesn't
Speaker 4: seem to.
Speaker 2: Have any Wow, he was awesome.
Speaker 3: He's so cool.
Speaker 4: I love him well.
Speaker 3: I love that he knew the hat was terrible, you know,
Speaker 3: like immediately, we didn't even have to bring it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we did not leave us thing because we
Speaker 2: don't have the dates or like know exactly what's up.
Speaker 2: But he is in an upcoming production of a play
Speaker 2: that's breaking kind of genre boundaries of what a plate
Speaker 2: eve and is with Judith Light SV Royalty. So look
Speaker 2: out for something with Judith Light in the near future,
Speaker 2: which I would be excited about.
Speaker 3: I missed the theater. Baby. Yeah, oh my gosh, if
Speaker 3: it comes to oh, if it's in a light, let's
Speaker 3: know it. Let's we hear about it. Yeah, we'll follow
Speaker 3: him on social.
Speaker 1: And before we get into our post mortem, I know
Speaker 1: that I referenced the X Factor and I meant to
Speaker 1: say the voice please don't send me a bunch of
Speaker 1: pictures of Adam Levine turning around in a chair to
Speaker 1: let me know that I.
Speaker 3: Was talking about the wrong show. I got it, I know.
Speaker 2: Oh, there was a funny meme about you know, Gwen
Speaker 2: Stefani and Blake Shelton. Yeah, I got married, and it
Speaker 2: was like, Gwen Stefani is the perfect example of an
Speaker 2: OC girl. She was a punk ska girl goddess and
Speaker 2: then ended up marrying the most conservative, boring white man
Speaker 2: she could find named Blake. And I thought that was
Speaker 2: a pretty funny tweet. I have to send it to
Speaker 2: our friend Blair, our OC girl. Yeah she is an
Speaker 2: OC lady.
Speaker 3: That's so funny. But yeah, Gwen was like everything and
Speaker 3: now she's Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with her, so no doubt in high
Speaker 1: school was like my soundtrack.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know you're.
Speaker 2: A badass when you can make braces be a trend,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I was begging for braces. I also
Speaker 2: begged for eyeglasses, and I wanted crutches, and I was
Speaker 2: so happy to get crutch it like it's sick. I
Speaker 2: bet there's some sort of study about this or other
Speaker 2: kids have to have really, tell me.
Speaker 3: I used fake crutches for three days.
Speaker 5: I got crutches, I didn't need them, and I wore
Speaker 5: them to school for three days.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's just the attention. When someone has crutches,
Speaker 3: You're like, look at.
Speaker 2: Me, Like I know, I was jealous of people with
Speaker 2: their pink casts.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I never I've never knocked on wood, but
Speaker 3: one wood. Well, let's talk. Let's do post mortem. What
Speaker 3: did we learn from this episode?
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if someone's wearing a douche hat, guess
Speaker 1: what they're a douche.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't have to get to know them. You
Speaker 3: can judge a book by its cover. You can judge
Speaker 3: a douche by its hat. Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: I mean, like we've said before, like we've said in
Speaker 1: the episode, I feel like we always believe women, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that there's not an occasional Jody.
Speaker 3: Arius out there.
Speaker 2: And the thing is to think about this woman, not Jody.
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't I don't want to defend real crime,
Speaker 2: but in the episode, we also don't know what like
Speaker 2: this chick's been through, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: who knows if she was abused as a young person,
Speaker 2: and this is what happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't get blow jobs on a ledge.
Speaker 2: I yeah, even if someone is your what like, you
Speaker 2: feel committed and fully trusting and they haven't threatened you
Speaker 2: and tried to.
Speaker 3: Destroy your life.
Speaker 1: Just no, BJ's no fucking no nothing by alledge.
Speaker 3: Let's do that.
Speaker 1: No ledge fucks, no ledge fucks for sure, that's a
Speaker 1: little bit too.
Speaker 3: Edgy for me.
Speaker 4: I would not.
Speaker 2: I also learned that there's leftover jiz in your dick
Speaker 2: after you come.
Speaker 5: That was me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, better pee and clear that shit out. That's probably
Speaker 1: how guys get UTI's or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I used to have a joke about
Speaker 2: com dripping out and you running to the bathroom, but
Speaker 2: I don't remember it fully.
Speaker 1: I had a joke about hobbling to the bathroom after
Speaker 1: you have sex when you're the woman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's what I mean. I obviously didn't have
Speaker 3: a dick hobbling a bit. Maybe would, Maybe I would.
Speaker 3: I know it was a personal experience joke. I was
Speaker 3: so excited.
Speaker 2: I you know, sometimes when crowds are like too hip
Speaker 2: and cool, I was like, are they going to be
Speaker 2: into this?
Speaker 3: But they love my nine to eleven joke? And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is good.
Speaker 1: You know, this is for you listeners that you need
Speaker 1: to see Lisa Tregger Live to get that nine to
Speaker 1: eleven content. Backstage, everyone's like, the audience seems really likable.
Speaker 3: You're gonna love it.
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, no, I'm not likable. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: not worried about them being likable, worried about me. Ah,
Speaker 2: what else about this episode?
Speaker 4: Wrong?
Speaker 1: Yes, means like get a like. I guess what we've
Speaker 1: learned that we've known is that Rollins is a good
Speaker 1: detective and in her job and a horrible detective in
Speaker 1: her life, like she cannot she does not have a
Speaker 1: good picker for men.
Speaker 2: Do you think Kelly Giddish knows how hated Amanda Rollins
Speaker 2: is because the messages we get like I posted the
Speaker 2: game this last week, but Kelly get her.
Speaker 1: Then there's Kelly Giddish fan accounts, so I'm sure she's like,
Speaker 1: you know, for every person that's like fuck you, there's
Speaker 1: somebody that like screams at us when we don't know
Speaker 1: the name of her dog.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, yeah, I guess that's fame.
Speaker 4: Baby.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say, like, don't trust your sponsor,
Speaker 2: but don't trust a guy that is only kind to
Speaker 2: women he wants to fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and note to women, I wouldn't trust a guy
Speaker 1: that's only surrounding himself with women in an AA setting.
Speaker 1: You know, he wouldn't help Danny Pino like he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to help men, He just wants to help women.
Speaker 2: But I bet he doesn't want to help women that
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to fuck.
Speaker 1: To write, I'm sure of like a non conventionally attractive
Speaker 1: woman went in and was like, can you help me,
Speaker 1: he'd be like, I'll load it up, babe, find another sponsor.
Speaker 2: Also, don't scream you're not my daddy at work to
Speaker 2: your coworkers.
Speaker 3: I think that's good advice. Yeah, that's really embarrassing. That's
Speaker 3: a great. That's just a great. That's all over. That's
Speaker 3: like cops not any yeah, any job. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If I see and all your other detective friends are like,
Speaker 1: this guy seems shady, maybe take a second moment, you know,
Speaker 1: take a moment to be like, Okay, all my esteemed
Speaker 1: colleagues don't like this guy.
Speaker 3: Let's see what's that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like, there's a reason why they tell you
Speaker 1: not to date people in AA because when it doesn't
Speaker 1: work out, you end up ripping butts at a blackjack table,
Speaker 1: Like you just need to work on your sobriety before you.
Speaker 3: I don't know, date, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, you're only doing this because of the movie twenty
Speaker 1: eight Days, right, No, I've never even seen that, Are
Speaker 1: you kidding?
Speaker 3: We've talked about this, I think before too. It is
Speaker 3: an awesome movie.
Speaker 2: It's Sandra Bullock, she goes to rehabs star studies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know what it's about.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but that's where I learned you shouldn't date
Speaker 2: for a year, and Sex and the City, that episode
Speaker 2: where she dates the guy too early and he kind
Speaker 2: of goes off the rails.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've only learned that rule from television.
Speaker 1: I also had a family member who dated somebody who
Speaker 1: was fresh out of rehab, and we were like, this
Speaker 1: might not be a good idea. And then I learned
Speaker 1: from other people like, oh yeah, they say an aa,
Speaker 1: don't date for a year. So I learned that that
Speaker 1: that way. I learned that the hard way, yeah as well.
Speaker 1: So just reiterating that as a post mortem finding for
Speaker 1: all of you and anything else.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: No, I guess we learned that three whole wonder uh
Speaker 2: passes all standards in practice, because you know, there were
Speaker 2: lawyers discussing it.
Speaker 3: They sent the script in. All the lawyers were sitting.
Speaker 1: Debating about it, and then they all were like, three
Speaker 1: hole wonder stays. That's a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is? And I guess I guess.
Speaker 1: Also, if life gives you a murderous personality and you're
Speaker 1: a murderer, you can still be a star in jail.
Speaker 1: You know, you can still win American Idol prison edition
Speaker 1: and sell your work on eBay. And we'll be checking
Speaker 1: back with Lisa in a couple of weeks after she's
Speaker 1: acquired her Jody Area sart.
Speaker 3: No, no, oh, yeah, did.
Speaker 2: We learn anything from the real crime? Destroy evidence? Your
Speaker 2: fucking idiot. It's what are you doing.
Speaker 1: Stop with the trophies, stop with the camera, stop it destroying.
Speaker 3: It's ever really deleted? Yes? Oh these people?
Speaker 2: I mean, have we talked about this, like if there
Speaker 2: should be escape rooms but for committing crimes and see
Speaker 2: if you get away with it.
Speaker 3: We have talked about that. I still want to do it.
Speaker 3: That's your shark tank idea.
Speaker 4: Think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've also learned that unfortunately, if a crime involves
Speaker 1: like a hot young woman, the crime is going to
Speaker 1: be named after the hot young woman.
Speaker 3: It's not going to be named after the victim.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Travis Alexander's name is not as popular as Jodi Arius,
Speaker 1: and I think that's just because he was murdered by
Speaker 1: somebody who was considered hot.
Speaker 2: But it must be really hard for victims' families to
Speaker 2: see their killers get fame and notoriety and attention and
Speaker 2: magazine covers, and I can't really imagine that heartache, right,
Speaker 2: And because she was also like particularly disrespectful by trying
Speaker 2: to paint him as a pedophile, like in death, Like
Speaker 2: you know, that's really horrible. So she not only took
Speaker 2: him off the earth but also tried to like drag his.
Speaker 3: Name through the MUDs.
Speaker 1: I'm sure his family feels a very specific way about her.
Speaker 1: But in general, don't kill people. But yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the lesson we learned. Don't kill people.
Speaker 3: Don't kill people.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Eight months into the pod, finally we're like.
Speaker 1: You know what we're not going to We're like, you
Speaker 1: know how you could avoid all this evidence?
Speaker 3: Shit, don't kill anyone, all right.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening, and Kara where are we going
Speaker 2: to try to help the community. What do we have
Speaker 2: for our Sister Peg segment?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so okay, So for this week's what would Sister
Speaker 1: Peg Do? Which is our weekly segment where we give
Speaker 1: you resources or organizations that can help you learn more
Speaker 1: about what we talked about in today's episode, we decided
Speaker 1: to highlight this week Women for Sobriety. It's womenfo Sobriety
Speaker 1: dot org. It's a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping women
Speaker 1: discover a happy new life and recovery from substance use disorders.
Speaker 1: They have been around since nineteen seventy five. Women for
Speaker 1: Sobriety has certified facilitators leading support groups online and in person,
Speaker 1: as well as phone volunteers available for one on one support.
Speaker 1: So anyone that's looking for help in their in their
Speaker 1: recovery please check out womenfor Sobriety dot org and all
Speaker 1: expressions of female identity are welcome.
Speaker 3: Thank you for that, Kara.
Speaker 2: And next week's episode we will be doing Rooftop season three,
Speaker 2: episode four. They are on Hulu. Hopefully they didn't fuck
Speaker 2: up the numbers this week. And Peacock your library all
Speaker 2: that jazz and we can't wait to see you next week.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kragon.
Speaker 1: And to our sound engineer and personal hero Analie s Nilson,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly
Speaker 1: Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers
Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 1: Right Media.
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Speaker 3: Done Done