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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Hello everybody, we have just

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Speaker 1: come out of the courtroom and take a listen to

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Speaker 1: Judge Newman in our cut four's Murdle. I sentence you

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Speaker 1: to the State Department of Corrections on each of the

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Speaker 1: murder indictments in the murder of your wife, Maggie Murdal.

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Speaker 1: I sentence you for term or the rest of your

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Speaker 1: natural life. For the murder of Paul Murdal, whom you

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Speaker 1: probably loved so much. I sentence you to prison for

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Speaker 1: murdering him for the rest of your natural life. Those

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Speaker 1: sentences will run consecutive. Under the statute involving possession of

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Speaker 1: weapon doing a violent crime, there is no sentence where life.

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Speaker 1: A life sentence is imposed on other indictments. That is

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Speaker 1: the sentence of the court and you are remanded to

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Speaker 1: the State Department of Corrections. I mean, see Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 1: at Fox Station and serious XM one eleven. The judge

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Speaker 1: judge even has handed down the maximum, which is life

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Speaker 1: behind bars for the remainder of Alex Murdog's natural life.

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Speaker 1: The kicker is the judge ran these sentences consecutively, which

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Speaker 1: means one after the other. Based on this sentence, Alex

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Speaker 1: murdog will never get out from behind ours. And in

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Speaker 1: his very still calm, methodical way, you heard Newman almost

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Speaker 1: sympathetic to Alex Murdag, yet firm in giving him the

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Speaker 1: maximum kind of pining for the man murdogu once was,

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Speaker 1: calling him friendly, gregarious, well known and well liked in

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Speaker 1: the courthouse, but yet still guilty. Court is adjourned. I

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Speaker 1: don't recall hearing Judge Newman slammed that gabbl one time

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Speaker 1: during the trial. He managed to convey very firm orders

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Speaker 1: with never raising his voice. And I've got to tell

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Speaker 1: you something, I have never heard a judge speak the

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Speaker 1: way this judge just spoke to the defendant at sentencing,

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Speaker 1: almost empathetic with the man Alex murnagu once was, but

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Speaker 1: never letting up on his quest for justice for Paul

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Speaker 1: and Mackie. It was amazing to us that at the

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Speaker 1: time Alex Murnag had a chance to throw himself on

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Speaker 1: the mercy of the court, to apologize, to try and

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Speaker 1: make some sort of amends, he chose to repeat his

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Speaker 1: lies that he is innocent. And this is even after

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Speaker 1: a jury has returned a guilty verdict on all accounts,

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Speaker 1: not apologizing for the grief he caused his family due

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Speaker 1: to his opioid addiction. Three failed attempts at drying out

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Speaker 1: and rehab all the grief his family endured, the heartache

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Speaker 1: they endured, no apology at all, but instead clinging to

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Speaker 1: his innocence, his plea of innocence. And you know why,

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Speaker 1: it's a legal tactic. If he were to admit, right there, judge,

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Speaker 1: I did it. I was out of my mind on opioids.

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Speaker 1: I can hardly remember it. I torture myself day and night.

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Speaker 1: Please have mercy on me. No, he never did that. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he clung to his insistence on innocence because when this

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Speaker 1: guides to appeal, and yes, it will go on appeal.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the grounds yet, God some ideas, but

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Speaker 1: it will go up on appeal. And if he were

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Speaker 1: to admit guilt, it would most likely hurt his chances

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Speaker 1: on appeal. That's why he did not come clean in

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Speaker 1: front of the judge. It was an amazing moment in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom. And I've had a lot of respect for

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Speaker 1: a lot of judges over the years, but I've got

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Speaker 1: to tell you hearing Judge Newman in that sentencing made

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Speaker 1: me respect the bench as much as I ever have,

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Speaker 1: if not more. No vicious cuts at anyone's expense, just

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Speaker 1: laying out the facts. He talked about having to take

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Speaker 1: the grandfather's portrait down out of the courtroom to hear

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Speaker 1: this case. He talked about the legal dynasty of the Murdoch's,

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Speaker 1: how his father, his grandfather had prosecuted cases in this courtroom,

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Speaker 1: alluding to the embarrassment and the shame that Murdoch has

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Speaker 1: brought upon his family. He talked about what wonderful people

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Speaker 1: Maggie he was, and how Paul was probably the one

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Speaker 1: Murdoch loved so dearly, but even now Murdoch never broke

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Speaker 1: with his mantra I am innocent. In the end, the

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Speaker 1: judge says, our business is done here, and he banged

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Speaker 1: that gabble and everybody started moving. I want you, for

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Speaker 1: anyone that has missed it, to hear just some of

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Speaker 1: what the judge said. Take a listen to this. This

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Speaker 1: has been perhaps one of the most troubling cases, not

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Speaker 1: just for me as a judge, for the stage, for

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Speaker 1: the defense team, but for all of the citizens in

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Speaker 1: this community, all the citizens in the state. Wife who's

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Speaker 1: been killed, murdered, a son, savage, savage, savagely murdered, a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: a person from a respected family who has controlled justice

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Speaker 1: in this community for over a century. It's also particularly troubling,

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Speaker 1: mister Murdock, because you've practiced law before me, and it

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Speaker 1: was especially heartbreaking for me to see you gone go

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Speaker 1: in the media from being a grieving father who lost

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Speaker 1: a wife and a son to being the person and

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Speaker 1: died and convicted of killing them. You know the way

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Speaker 1: the judge laid that out, basically chronically, in his own

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Speaker 1: calm way. Alex Murdog's fall from grace, and he was graced.

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Speaker 1: He had every blessing. You can't imagine a wife that

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Speaker 1: was faithful, that raised his sons, two sons that have

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Speaker 1: their lives in front of them, three not one, not two,

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Speaker 1: but three beautiful homes, life handed to him on a

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Speaker 1: silver platter. The judge chronicled it all before handing down

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Speaker 1: a sentence. We are expecting the attorney general out and

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Speaker 1: the lead prosecutor will be joining us, along with the

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Speaker 1: sheriff that walked Murdog out of the courthouse and the

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Speaker 1: clerk that had to stand up and read that jury's decision.

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Speaker 1: They will all be joining us there coming out of

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Speaker 1: the courthouse, and we'll take you to them live the

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Speaker 1: minute we get them. Right now, I want you to

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Speaker 1: hear our cut eleven, when Murdog given an opportunity by

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Speaker 1: the judge to make peace. And I gotta tell you

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Speaker 1: one of the most chilling moments was when the judge

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Speaker 1: and Christine try to find this if you can, looked

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Speaker 1: at Murdock and said, I imagine that Paul and Maggie

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Speaker 1: visit you every night and your dreams. I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: a chill went down my spine. I wonder if that's true.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if Murdog does dream of them or does

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Speaker 1: he only dream of himself and cannoye in scheme about

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Speaker 1: how he's going to get out of this. But I

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Speaker 1: want you to hear when given the opportunity to ask

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Speaker 1: for mercy, to apologize for the pain, the wake of

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Speaker 1: pain he has left behind him like a speedboat. It's

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Speaker 1: not what he did. Take a Listen to Murdoch speaking

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Speaker 1: in court. The defendant would like to address the courtot Murdoch,

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Speaker 1: good morning. I'm innocent. I would never hurt my wife, Maggie,

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Speaker 1: and I would never hurt my son Pau. Paul, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you. He said the same thing again with me

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Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we

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Speaker 1: are hearing and what has just happened in this courtroom.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think one of the biggest factors was

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Speaker 1: not only the defendant obviously lying on the stand getting

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Speaker 1: caught in his tangled web of lies, and I was interesting.

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott morgun Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet and Star Bodybacks, who just got Morgan,

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Speaker 1: and more important to me, are very thoughtful and considered

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Speaker 1: death investigator, not just rushing into a scene but studying

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Speaker 1: it carefully, which is required in cases like this. I

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Speaker 1: agree with many others that have stated Maggie and Paul spoke.

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Speaker 1: I don't say the grave because I don't believe that

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Speaker 1: we stay in the grave. They spoke from beyond through

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Speaker 1: the evidence left behind. What say you, Morgan, Yeah, they do, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: And it's very cliche for me to say this, but

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Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and say it. You know, those that

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Speaker 1: work in our field and forensics, and particularly my field

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Speaker 1: of medically the death investigation near the old Padage that

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Speaker 1: we speak for those that can no longer speak for themselves. However,

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Speaker 1: in this case, that evidence that was conjured up relative

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Speaker 1: to Paul and Maggie, all that remained of them. We

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Speaker 1: heard those descriptors from the scene, how horrific this was.

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Speaker 1: They did speak, they spoke loudly, and you know what

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Speaker 1: really kind of got to me. I was I was

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Speaker 1: a bit lighthearted when I was signing on the point,

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Speaker 1: getting ready to chat with you and really looking forward

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Speaker 1: to it. And I got to tell you, I've had

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Speaker 1: kind of a cloud come over me now after hearing

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Speaker 1: Judge Newman, because you know what he was talking about

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Speaker 1: in a small southern town like this, this was a

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Speaker 1: death in the community, This was a death in that

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Speaker 1: broader family there. You know, he talked about this horrible

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Speaker 1: act that this man has committed and part of that

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Speaker 1: community has died, and it was very sad. You could

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Speaker 1: hear that sadness in in his voice, and you could

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Speaker 1: also hear his admonishment, almost in a fatherly like way,

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Speaker 1: you know, just grieving. It's heart's broken. I think that

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Speaker 1: he had to preside over this, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: right now. I don't know what they would say, but

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Speaker 1: I think that some justice, some measure of justice, has

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Speaker 1: been served for Maggan part. Another thing is the blood

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Speaker 1: doesn't likee blood spatter doesn't lie. Ballistics don't lie, they

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Speaker 1: can't be cross examined. They tell the truth hard at

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Speaker 1: data like cell phone geopositioning, carnap, it doesn't lie. But

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Speaker 1: I can tell you aside from all of that evidence,

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Speaker 1: when Miss Shelley took the stand and broke down in tears,

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Speaker 1: afraid she's going to lose her job for testifying, I

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Speaker 1: guesst Alex Murdock. Remember she was the caretaker for Murdock's mother,

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Speaker 1: and Murdike came to her and asked her, and not

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Speaker 1: so many words, to lie about his alibi. She didn't

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Speaker 1: want to do it. She was so upset. She called

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Speaker 1: her brother, who was chief of police nearby, upset about

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Speaker 1: what Murdoke had done. And it just hammered into me,

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Speaker 1: Chris McDonough, the haves and the have knocks. She was

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Speaker 1: afraid she was going to lose her job, and she

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Speaker 1: took the stand anyway, and she told the truth. And

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Speaker 1: you could tell she did not want to testify against Murdoca,

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Speaker 1: but she did it. She told the truth and that

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Speaker 1: hurt me to see her in that position. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember that, Chris, I do, I do, Nancy? And you

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Speaker 1: know what that drive home just on what we heard

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Speaker 1: Judge Newman also talk about not only the intimidation factor

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Speaker 1: to that wonderful human being that we're talking about, Michelle.

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Speaker 1: You know, she follows a moral compass. And I had

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Speaker 1: the impression listened to the judge today as almost as

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Speaker 1: if we were all listening at a pew somewhere on

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Speaker 1: a sermon on good versus evil. And what I heard

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Speaker 1: very clearly the judge say, is the monster within is

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Speaker 1: who he was talking to within Alec Murdoch. As well

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Speaker 1: as the fact that his family oversaw cases where less

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Speaker 1: than what he was facing, i e. The death penalty

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Speaker 1: people went to prison for it was that? Was that

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Speaker 1: a signal that, you know, to the law enforcement authorities

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Speaker 1: to take a look, go back, see the miss Shelley's

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Speaker 1: of the world, see if there is injustice. Additionally, here somewhere,

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Speaker 1: I just thought that was a very compelling statement to

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Speaker 1: make during the sentencing. Here I wish, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: I wish you could be here with us right now.

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Speaker 1: There are so many people on the lawn of this courthouse.

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Speaker 1: It's like they it's hard to take in that it

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Speaker 1: really happened, that he has really been found guilty. I

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Speaker 1: had so many people come up to me while I

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Speaker 1: was here, up to our tent out here in the

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Speaker 1: sun and the rain and the wind, and say, we

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Speaker 1: know he did it, but he's going to get away

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Speaker 1: with it because he's a murdoch. I can't tell you

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Speaker 1: how many people came up in all walks of life, bankers, teachers,

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Speaker 1: retired principles, people that work in the food trucks around

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Speaker 1: the courthouse. Nobody could believe he would really be convicted.

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Speaker 1: People are just milling around. They can't really take in

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Speaker 1: that it's happened. Again. As soon as the defense team

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Speaker 1: comes out, we are expecting them to make a statement

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Speaker 1: as well as well. You know, the judge went on

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. At one point I snapped two

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Speaker 1: attention when he said, you know what, the man that

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Speaker 1: committed these murders may not have been you. Maybe it

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Speaker 1: was you on thirty forty fifty opioid pills the other you.

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Speaker 1: And that's something that you can figure out in the

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Speaker 1: penal system. But I've got to tell you something just

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Speaker 1: got Morgan when he addressed and he wasn't reading this.

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Speaker 1: It's just eloquent. And I've never seen a sentence handed

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Speaker 1: down like this in my wife, and I've seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of sentences. But when he looked at dal and

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Speaker 1: talked about how he the judge believes Murdoch is visited

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Speaker 1: at night by Paul and Maggie, that would stop anybody

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Speaker 1: in their tracks, Jo Scott. Yeah. And then and there

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Speaker 1: was not one ounce of nutrition fancy on this man's face,

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Speaker 1: you know when he's he's faced with that. And look,

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Speaker 1: I know what you were saying, that there's a there's

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Speaker 1: a a method to this going forward on appeal. But

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Speaker 1: you know, in the face of that, when you think

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Speaker 1: about what the judge, you know, the judges he's had

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Speaker 1: to sit for Charles not like this, but he's had

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Speaker 1: to determine at the end of the day, what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen to somebody and their life moving forward. He

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Speaker 1: knows this, he knows this territory. This is not new

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Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, and he sat there and he offered

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Speaker 1: he offered him an opportunity to hold forth at that

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Speaker 1: moment in Tom and you mentioned throwing himself on the

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Speaker 1: mercy of the court, and he failed miserably in that,

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Speaker 1: you know. And to think now he's sitting back in

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Speaker 1: a cell somewhere, and a holding cell in that little courthouse.

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Speaker 1: They're going to take him the Sheriff's office probably, and

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Speaker 1: they'll hold him there for a while, and he's going

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Speaker 1: to be alone, hearing the echoes of those doors shut

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Speaker 1: behind them, those steel doors, and they'll pass him a

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Speaker 1: malooney sandwich probably. He's not going to be eating on

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Speaker 1: the court affair that he's used to now, and he's

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Speaker 1: going to have a lot of thinking to do, a

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Speaker 1: lot of thinking because if he's at the end, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you think about it, Joe Scott, it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit like Scott Peterson who could never ever break down

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Speaker 1: and admit guilt because his mother, his father, his family

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Speaker 1: were all right behind him on the front pew every

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Speaker 1: day that he could not admit. Lloyd murder cannot admit

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Speaker 1: to his family and his constituents that he did this thing. Guys,

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Speaker 1: following up on what Joe Scott and I were just

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Speaker 1: talking about, I want you to hear our cut fourteen.

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Speaker 1: For those of you that missed it, I will never

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Speaker 1: forget it. Listen to the judge. You know your license

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Speaker 1: to practice law has been stripped, and now have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to make your final appeal as a as an

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Speaker 1: ex lawyer. Good again, I'm statis Cordie, but I'm interested.

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Speaker 1: I would never, under any circumstances hurt my wife Maggie,

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Speaker 1: and I would never, under any circumstances hurt my son Mobah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and it might not have been you. It might have

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Speaker 1: been the monster you become when you take fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty,

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Speaker 1: sixty or pio appeals. Maybe you become another person. I've

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Speaker 1: seen that before. The person standing before me was not

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Speaker 1: the person who committed the crime, though it's the same

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Speaker 1: individual you know. To doctor Michelle Dupree, this is her jurisdiction. Pathologists,

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Speaker 1: medical examiner, author, former detective. Opioids or really many type

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Speaker 1: of drugs can do that to you where you become

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Speaker 1: a completely different person, Doctor Dufree. You and I went

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Speaker 1: out on the water to see where that boat crash

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Speaker 1: claimed Mallory Beaches life. And it was the same thing

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Speaker 1: with Paul. Remember, his friends even gave him an alter

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Speaker 1: ego name because he would turn into another person when

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Speaker 1: he drank same thing with the father. That's right, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: They gave him the nickname of Timmy. And yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: that can definitely change someone's personality. It can make them

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Speaker 1: do things that they would not ordinarily do. And you know,

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Speaker 1: perhaps that is what happened in this case. But when

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Speaker 1: he was on a stand and he continued to lie

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Speaker 1: and continue to lie and continue to lie, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that was opioids talking. And remember when he was interviewed,

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Speaker 1: he was very crafty. He calculated his answers, he made

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Speaker 1: his answers fit the evidence that the state had. That's

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Speaker 1: someone who's thinking pretty logically. In my book, to Deal

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Speaker 1: Carson high profile lawyer joining US Sun Jackson will former

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Speaker 1: fed with the FBI and author deal. Could you explain

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Speaker 1: why legally he would not admit he did it just

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Speaker 1: in case he gets a new trial or a reversal

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Speaker 1: in a new trial that could be brought in potentially. Well,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind that the public courts, you're going to

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Speaker 1: work within the corners of the documents that were produced

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Speaker 1: during the actual trial, so they'll have transcripts to look at.

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Speaker 1: They won't be able to look at the witnesses or

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Speaker 1: anyone they're going to read that transcript. And if he

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Speaker 1: were to admit that he was actually culpable he did this,

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Speaker 1: he would lose basically his ability to appeal. And one

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Speaker 1: of the issues that is present in a potential appeal

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Speaker 1: is the fact that a juror was removed during the

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Speaker 1: course of the trial, and that's going to be a

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Speaker 1: big deal if in fact she was leaning toward a

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Speaker 1: hung jury or an acquittal. So we've yet to see

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Speaker 1: where this is going to go ultimately, but I was

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Speaker 1: really impressed by the judge as you were. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that he said that really caught my imagination

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Speaker 1: was the fact that if the state had likely charged

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Speaker 1: him with death penalty in mind, this court would likely

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Speaker 1: have convicted him, and that was surprising to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I don't disagree with the judge. I don't disagree

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Speaker 1: at all. Guys, in our cut sixteen, you were hearing

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Speaker 1: one of the most impactful things that Judge Newman said

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Speaker 1: out of everything he said, which was a lot, but

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Speaker 1: so calmly and methodically delivered in almost a fatherly way.

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Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut sixteen.

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Speaker 1: It's already ended for many who have heard you and

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Speaker 1: concluded that it'll never end. But within your own soul

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Speaker 1: you have to deal with that, and I know you

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Speaker 1: have to see Paul and Maggie during the nighttimes when

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Speaker 1: you're attempting to go to sleep. I'm sure they come

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Speaker 1: and visit you and every night, I'm sure, and they

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Speaker 1: will continue to do so. And reflect on the last

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Speaker 1: time they looked you in the eyes as you look

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Speaker 1: the jury in eyes. I don't know, person who's always

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Speaker 1: been such a gregarious, friendly person caused your life to

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Speaker 1: be tangled in such or we've web such a situation

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Speaker 1: that you're so funny into because you had such a

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Speaker 1: lovely family of such friendly people. Guys with me is

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Speaker 1: Kelly Ski and Fox Nation senior producer Kelly. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear the judge? He also discussed about how this trial

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Speaker 1: and this crime was an assault on the legal community

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Speaker 1: and on the judicial system, and how law enforcement had

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Speaker 1: been maligned for weeks and weeks and weeks and they

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Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong because of Alex Murdock. All this

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Speaker 1: has happened. We heard an absolutely stunning rebuke by Judge

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Speaker 1: Clifton and Newman, who compared Alec Murdock to a monster.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it wasn't the man standing in front of me

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Speaker 1: today that killed his own wife and son. But when

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Speaker 1: you are on drugs, you are a different person and

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Speaker 1: you can convince every You can convince yourself, but you

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Speaker 1: can cannot You cannot convince anyone else of your lies.

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Speaker 1: Judge Clifton Newman also went on to say that this

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Speaker 1: is heartbreaking. Alec Murdoch has tried cases in front of him,

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Speaker 1: they have a relationship, and again it's a stain on

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Speaker 1: the legal community. Something else that Judge Clifton Newman said

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Speaker 1: was that Alec Murdock and his family have sentenced people

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Speaker 1: to death or they've you know, they've tried death penalty

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Speaker 1: cases on a lot less evidence than that, and I

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Speaker 1: think that is very very powerful. He also said, Alex Murdoch,

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Speaker 1: what did you mean when you said, oh, the tangled

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Speaker 1: web we weave? And Alec Murdoch said, once I lied,

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Speaker 1: I continue to lie, and Judge Clifton Newman shot back with,

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Speaker 1: well when did the lies end? Guys? I see them

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Speaker 1: preparing a podium with I don't know, fifteen microphones to

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Speaker 1: hear what in the world the defense is going to say?

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Speaker 1: I expect the whole defense team to be there minus one,

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Speaker 1: and that is Alex Murdock. Let's go to the presser now.

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Speaker 1: My name is Mark Keel for the South Carol Law

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Speaker 1: Enforcement Division otherwise known as SLED. For those of y'all

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Speaker 1: in the local media, you know, I don't do very

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Speaker 1: many press offices. I've been chief of SLED for twelve

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Speaker 1: years and I've only done two. The last one I

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Speaker 1: did was in June twenty one to talk about significant

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Speaker 1: violet crime that's just been unprecedented in our state. But

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Speaker 1: today it's important for me to speak out. It's important

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Speaker 1: because of the victims in this case. It's important because

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Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul cannot. I want to make one thing

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Speaker 1: clear to everybody. There are no winners today. I have

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Speaker 1: a truly humbling risk posibility as being chief of SLED.

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Speaker 1: I lead a dedicated and professional group of investigators, forensic scientists,

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Speaker 1: as support personnel, a staff at worked day in and

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Speaker 1: day out for days just like today to bring justice

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Speaker 1: for victims. And today is not the end. It's the

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Speaker 1: next step in a long road to justice for every

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Speaker 1: person who has been victimized by Alex Murlock. Alex Murlock

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Speaker 1: has now been rightfully found guilty of murdering his wife,

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Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul. He was found guilty because he was guilty,

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Speaker 1: and as one of the witnesses said, Paul was a

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Speaker 1: little detective. This case served notice to anyone who aided

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Speaker 1: or assisted Alex Murdoch in committing any crime that justice

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Speaker 1: will be sought. This was an incredible effort by SLID,

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Speaker 1: our local and federal partners, and our partners at an

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Speaker 1: Attorney General's office, and I want to fact Attorney General

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Speaker 1: Wilson and all of his prosecutors, paralegals and all of

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Speaker 1: his support personnel as well. They did a fantastic job.

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Speaker 1: The agents and prosecutors who work this case of sacrifice

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Speaker 1: countless moments from their own families to ensure that a

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Speaker 1: person responsible for the murders of Maggie and Paul was

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Speaker 1: fairly tried and brought to justice. The people who work

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Speaker 1: this case do it because they are called to serve.

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Speaker 1: They do it to bring a voice to the voiceless,

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Speaker 1: and they are dedicated public servants and for that I'm grateful.

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Speaker 1: SLED agents have worked tirelessly for the past twenty one

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Speaker 1: months to ensure justice was Sir, for Maggie and Paul.

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Speaker 1: It is impossible for most people to understand the countless

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Speaker 1: hours of hard work that went into this case, time

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Speaker 1: away from families, miss birthdays, miss holidays, and it is

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Speaker 1: all done under constant scrutiny, constant pressure. I want these

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Speaker 1: folks standing behind me and around me to know how

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00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: incredibly proud I am of ms Chief of SLED. I

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00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: believe firmly in this criminal justice system that we have,

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Speaker 1: and I believe in the rights of an accused to

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Speaker 1: have a fair trial. That is why I, who remained

404
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: silent from beginning to this case until now again today

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Speaker 1: I'm here to provide a voice for Maggie and Paul.

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00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: I'm here to recognize the heart wrenching journey that that

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Speaker 1: family and friends of Maggie and Paul have endured. And

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Speaker 1: I'm here to support and thank again this incredible team

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Speaker 1: of agents, forensic scientists, support personnel that work it SLED,

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Speaker 1: and it worked on this case yesterday and today. Jostice

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Speaker 1: has been served an incredible statement and very rare for

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Speaker 1: Mark kill the Chief of Sled. As you heard him say,

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Speaker 1: he's only spoken out in his twelve years only twice.

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Speaker 1: He talked about how his team, the people working under him,

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Speaker 1: have been held to constant scrutiny and much maligned. Although

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Speaker 1: we come from law enforcement background, No, they did nothing wrong,

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Speaker 1: yet they have taken it on the chin from the

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Speaker 1: get go. He talked about the victims of this crime,

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Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul, balancing their right to be heard in

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Speaker 1: a court of law and the right of the defendant

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Speaker 1: for a fair trial, and says that is why he

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Speaker 1: has remained silent up until this moment. He described the

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Speaker 1: back breaking hours that his team at SLED South Carolina

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Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Division have devoted to this case. Weekends, Holidays, Christmas, Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 1: family vacations, all sacrificed in the pursuit of justice for

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Speaker 1: Paul and Maggie. So many of them we will never

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Speaker 1: know their names, But today SLED Chief Mark Kill honored them. Guys.

428
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm being joined by a man we saw every single

429
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: day in the courtroom with a very menacing look in

430
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: the courtroom, but a very kind nature outside the courtroom.

431
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Deputy Dan Gregory, assigned to security of

432
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: the courtroom, security of the you're ours, and overseeing the

433
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: transport every day of now convicted killer Alex Murdog Collinson

434
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: County is sheriff, former SWAT, former d E, a former

435
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: Air Marshall, and former assistant Federal Security Director for Savannah.

436
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: Deputy Gregory, it's a real honor and privilege to have

437
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: you on with us. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, ma'am.

438
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: I'm glad to be here, Deputy Gregory. I saw you

439
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: walking Murdog out of the jail last night into the

440
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: glare of the cameras for once everyone finally seeing him

441
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: in handcuffs, and I understand that in the last minutes

442
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: you took Murdog to the county jail. Is that correct, Yes, ma'am.

443
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: I took him out with an attention officer the total

444
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: of a flying to maintaining his custody inside the courtroom.

445
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: That would be on corporate right and off, Sir Frasier.

446
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: She was part of the team that I was in

447
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: involved in him in the transport of Alex um from

448
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: the sidewalk and from our officers Whitney Colloton County Detention

449
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: Center as well as our detectives losses. We maintained as

450
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: security of him inside the courthouse and transport him back

451
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: and forth into the courtroom. Yes, ma'am. Did he ever

452
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: make conversation with you guys? Ma'am? He attempted to make conversation. Um,

453
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: he's a very joking, casual type person. Inside. I didn't

454
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: have a lot of conversation with him. Um, personally kind

455
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: of stayed away from that. I had no use to

456
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: talk to him. Well, you know what, and you gotta

457
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: be you gotta be really careful, careful, Deputy Gregory, because

458
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: you represent the state and anything you say would be

459
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: taken and twisted and used somehow by the defense. I

460
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: don't know how. I can't imagine that, but somehow it's

461
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: entirely possible. What was his demeanor with you and your

462
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: team after the sentencing? After the sentencing, he was still

463
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: maintained that attitude. I did talk to him on a

464
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: personal level because they're in his belief of God and

465
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: a higher being and that other people he would have

466
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: to answer to after our life here on earth. We

467
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: had that discussion briefly, and that's the first time that

468
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: I've actually had a conversation with the gentleman you mean

469
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: after sacing after sentencing, Yes, ma'am, Well, Deputy Dean Gregory,

470
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: I'm very curious, what are Alex Murdock's belief about our

471
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: Holy Father and life hereafter. I don't know what his

472
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: beliefs are, ma'am. In their mind, that's my personal beliefs. However,

473
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: you know, as far as him being cunning, him being

474
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: a threat, I considered him a threat since the first

475
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: day I met him. I've been doing this job about

476
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: forty years, so I'm able to pick up on certain things,

477
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: I guess, And I did not trust him. I took

478
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: it as a serious job in a serious situation, and

479
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: and then here for six weeks off so doing that, So, jeputy,

480
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: why did you detect him as a threat at the

481
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: very beginning? What about him made you feel that way? Man?

482
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: Manytimes somebody and you know, tries to talk to you

483
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: and and you can kind of so I almost like

484
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: talking to a good used car salesman or or something

485
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: of that nature, I guess would be a way to

486
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: look at it. So depud Gregory, you're saying after the sentence,

487
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,439
Speaker 1: saying he resumed his job, killer or joking or good

488
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: natured behavior. As good as far as he's a he's

489
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: a polite person, and and the politeness suzes out of him.

490
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: He's um you know, a normal person talking to him

491
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: that didn't know him, of course they would think he's

492
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: a wonderful person. However, I think the evidence and the

493
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: South Carolina law Enforfront Division, which I have the ultimate

494
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: perspect for, for the time and effort or they put

495
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: into this case. I know they just personally. I've got

496
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: a lot of friends in that organization as well as

497
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: our sheriff's office. The stuff that the defense went over

498
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: in regards to making it try to look like our

499
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: guys and girls did a bad job from the first

500
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: officer Daniel Greene and Chad McDowell arrived on the scene

501
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: and started maintaining that scene was remarkable. The resources we have,

502
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: and I've seen the trump to Moseelle. We're remote county.

503
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: We're sixty miles long, thirty miles wide, and run on

504
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: a shoestring budget. That hurts us when getting quality people

505
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: here because as this day and time, it's hard to

506
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: find police officers and we need some good, upstanding police

507
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: officers to come into our ranks to help us. We're

508
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: down now and we're hiring, but the folks that we're

509
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: out there doing this job, I've got to have five

510
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: minutes of fame, of being stuck in the spotlight here

511
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: and it's not deserving. And because the people that are

512
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: outside the spotlight, the Laura Rutmans, the Jason Chapman's, Sheriff Hills,

513
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: are sled agents. The people David Owens. You know, the

514
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: list is really, really long, and they really should be

515
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: sitting in these chairs telling you what they did, because

516
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: what they did was remarkable to take a circumstantial case

517
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: and build it so solid that people that don't have

518
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: a law enforcement background, just common sense, good good people,

519
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: not a bad person, rendered the verdict of guilty in

520
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: this case. I'm so proud of them. Dvid Gregory. I'm

521
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: hearing what you're saying, and you're being humble as always.

522
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: When I first saw you, I was told you were

523
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: security for the defense because you would sit right behind

524
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: the defendant in the first pew, like in a church

525
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: or a synagogue, that first pew behind the well, and

526
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: every time there would be a break or a moment

527
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 1: when Murdoch could stand up and move around, you would

528
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 1: immediately turn back with a very menacing look and look

529
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: around that courtroom. I everybody you saw, Look at the doors,

530
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: look at the windows. What were you doing, ma'am. I

531
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: have a background and counter terrorism. I was on a

532
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: joint terrorism task for US at FBI understand terrorism. And

533
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: in this arena we had countries, other countries across the

534
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: world watching this case at our little small courthouse in

535
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: a little small town where we have limited numbers to

536
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: offer protection. My sheriff made the decision for me to

537
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: be in the position that I was in in that arena,

538
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: inside that courtroom, along with my Lieutenant Ruben Carter, which

539
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: as a deer and lifelong friend. We are actually the

540
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: two resident deputies down Nati Stoe Beach, which is kind

541
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 1: of like Mayberry, and we take care of the beach

542
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: on the far end into County. That's my retirement job

543
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: after a twenty seven year career with the federal government.

544
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: But we were brought up here to myself, Lieutenant Carter,

545
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: and especially to be inside courtroom security designated for the

546
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: protection of everybody it was in that courtroom, whether it

547
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: was the defense attorneys, whether it was the judge, it

548
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: didn't matter. We were not there as mister Murdock's private

549
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: defense team security program. Strategically, I did not wear my

550
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: uniform the first days. That was a tactical advantage in

551
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: case we had something go wrong in that courtroom. But well,

552
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: you did have something go wrong with Deputy he had

553
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: a bomb threat, yes, man, remember that. I mean this

554
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: case has seen everything from jurards getting COVID to bomb

555
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: threats to a dozen eggs being retrieved out of the

556
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: jury deliberation room. You know what, You've seen it all

557
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: with this case. Let me ask you something, Deputy Gregory,

558
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: have you ever seen a defendant try to escape? Ma'am?

559
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: In my past career, I've had defendants try to escape.

560
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm actually a member and proud to say that, I'm

561
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: a member of Collaton County's Tracking Team as a collateral duty.

562
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: And when they do it escape, we catch them down

563
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: here and that's our job, and we take precautions against

564
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: something like that happened. But like I said, outside that courtroom,

565
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: outside the spotlight and outside the camera view. Jason Chapman

566
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: our captain, and he's also in charge of the squat

567
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: team as well as a dedicated group of detectives that

568
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: works under his direct control, and as well as I

569
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: rode deputies and even mister Smoke, which was one of

570
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: our reserve deputies that's out here on his own time

571
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: to ensure the safety of this courthouse and the people

572
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: that was attending this situation. We were ready for it.

573
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: We had a plan in place. Our plan worked flawlessly,

574
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: and I worked for a working sheriff. Buddy Hill has

575
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: dedicated his life to this county. M I kind of

576
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: cheated him, but he's We had a plan, yes, ma'

577
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: hold on, Deputy. I'm glad you said he's a working

578
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: sheriff because I've met a lot of sheriffs that were

579
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: show horses. You know the difference between a workhorse at

580
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: a show horse. I'm glad to hear you say that,

581
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: miss Sheriff here is a workhorse. There's a big difference, ma'am.

582
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: One of our other local sheriffs and regards of that

583
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 1: statement you just made, a Sheriff for Avanel from Orangeburg

584
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: County came and shared the bench, the law enforcement bench,

585
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: which was the barrier between the defendant and the public

586
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: where we were sitting on that bench behind mister Murdock

587
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: and his defense team. Sheriff for Avanel and his chief

588
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: deputy spent many days in this courtroom and their doctor, Kensey,

589
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: our chief deputy. Kensey was phenomenal and I can't express

590
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: enough gratitude on behalf of our office. And you know

591
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,479
Speaker 1: my partners that the job that they did to see

592
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: that justice was done. I was honored to be on

593
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: the bench to a sheriff evern Allen. I'm honored to

594
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: work for a sheriff that that runs into woods. Would you.

595
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: I supported Buddy Hill during our last election and we

596
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: got an election round the corner and we're going to

597
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: win another one too, and it's going to be well deserved.

598
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: He's a good man. Before we go into a political advertisement,

599
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 1: let me ask you. You were also protecting the jury

600
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: and he managed to keep the press, the media and

601
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: this place is jammed with media. Everywhere I look, there

602
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: is media, there are spectators, their security going round and

603
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: around the courthouse. How did you what security did you

604
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: have in place to protect the jury, ma'am? That was

605
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: not my doing. Um, I had a small part. I'm

606
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: a deaf the sheriff and yeah, I'm a little bit

607
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,280
Speaker 1: belonging to tooth and like I said before, I retired

608
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: federally and this is more so my retirement job. But

609
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 1: the officers that were in charge at was our Captain

610
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: Jason Chapman and his lieutenant David Long, my lieutenant Ruben Carter.

611
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: Those gentlemen were outside on the outside of that courtroom,

612
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: making sure that the safety was being maintained, making sure

613
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: that the media was taken care of, making sure that

614
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: y'all had accessibility as well as protection at any given moment.

615
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: What did it feel like last night after seeing the

616
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 1: trial unfold? You were there throughout the trial to walk

617
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: Murdock out with a guilty verdict under his belt. Ma'am.

618
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: I prayed over this. I prayed to give for the

619
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: jury to have the strength in a situation where and

620
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to to talk about putting a man

621
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: in jail for the rest of his life, but the

622
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: evidence was overwhelming and they did the right thing. It

623
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 1: a feeling of happiness, but also, as we said here today,

624
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: we're still in a situation where we're here to serve

625
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: to public and make sure that everybody goes home and

626
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: gets back to wherever their home may be. And that's

627
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: what we've continue to do. And I'm sitting in this

628
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: chair while my partners are still out there doing a job.

629
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: You know, you really articulated how I would feel after

630
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: every guilty verdict. It was not jubilation, it was not celebration.

631
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: It was more of a happy relief that one more

632
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: bad guy was going to jail and one more innocent

633
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: person was being protected. I'm also curious about something you

634
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: said earlier. So after the sentencing, you were responsible for

635
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: helping to get Alex Murdog to the jailhouse, and he

636
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: had no change in demeanor. He wasn't crying or complaining,

637
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: just his normal self, ma'am. I had a personal conversation

638
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: with him. I'm not going to articulate with that personal conversation,

639
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: but he shows no remorse and he's going to exactly

640
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: where he needs to be at and out of our society.

641
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: And the only comment I have on that, well, Debt Gregory,

642
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. To

643
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: you and all of your sisters and brothers in law enforcement,

644
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: thank you for making this trial go as smoothly as

645
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: it did. There were a lot of disruptions, but you

646
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: know what, it went seamlessly. People on the outside would

647
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: never know well you and your team, the sheriff's team,

648
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 1: managed to pull off Danny Gregory. Thank you for being

649
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: with us. Thank you, ma'am. It was an honor to

650
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: be here time stories with Nancy Greece. Guys, we are

651
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: alive outside the Colleton County Courthouse and in just a

652
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: few moments, the defense will be having their pressure. Now.

653
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: We thought that was happening earlier and it turned out

654
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: to be Sled, and it's about time that they are

655
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: heard from. They have been maligned and attacked throughout this

656
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,879
Speaker 1: case for weeks and weeks and weeks and leading up

657
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: to the trial. Every time you turn on the TV,

658
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: you would hear about what Sled had done wrong, and

659
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: what the prosecution had done wrong, and how great the

660
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: defense was. Well, you know what, I think what really

661
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: clinched it was when the defendant, Alex Murdog took the stand.

662
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: Do you remember the fervor that took over when Murdoch

663
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: stood up and said he was taking the stand. You

664
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: could see he was headed toward the witness, the witness. See,

665
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: guys again, we are here at the courthouse waiting for

666
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: the defense to approach the podium and we're all anxious

667
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: to hear what they're going to say. We're also going

668
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: to be speaking with Creton Waters, the lead prosecutor in

669
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: this case, and the elected Attorney General who has been

670
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: serving for twelve years as the chief prosecutor for the state,

671
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: the top cop in South Carolina, who amazingly humbled himself.

672
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: He came into this courthouse, went to the prosecution and said,

673
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: I'll do whatever you want me to do. I'll make

674
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 1: phone calls, I'll do interviews, I'll take a cross exams,

675
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: I'll do directs for you, I'll do research, I'll make posters.

676
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 1: I'll work for you during this trial. Can you believe

677
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: that because most of the attorney generals I've seen are

678
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: quite full of themselves, and believe me, I've sent a few,

679
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: and they political animals that just focus on being reelected.

680
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: I gotta ta. I was really impressed with this guy

681
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: number one. He stood by his wife while she battled

682
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: breast cancer, and the two of them never let on

683
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 1: what they've been through. But to come in and work

684
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: for somebody that he's their boss. And you saw him

685
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: actually get up at conductor cross exam and did a

686
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: really good job of it. I might add he was

687
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: also the one that did that re enact that had

688
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: a huge impact on the jury, where he and doctor

689
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: Kenzie re enacted the defense theory of how Paul Murdog. Oh, guys,

690
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: I'm hearing in my ears. I'll tell you that last

691
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: ten bit in a moment, Christine, tell me again who

692
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: was joining us? Oh, I'm so happy to have him

693
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 1: with us right now. It's Mark Tinsley. Now you all

694
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: remember this name coming up almost like a specter hanging

695
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: over Alex Murdog. Remember this that Murdoch came up to

696
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: Tinsley and said, Hey, what's this I hear about? You're

697
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: going after me on that boat crash And Tinsley's like, hblel, Yes,

698
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: I am Mark Tinsley. Thank you for being with us.

699
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm want to hear your reaction to

700
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: the guilty verdict. It was relief, you know, it was

701
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: relief more than anything. I believed it. I felt like

702
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: when I was looking in the eyes of the jurors

703
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: that there was a connection and understanding and recognition. You know,

704
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: when you sit in the courtroom and you watched the

705
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 1: jury's reaction and you try to see what they're paying

706
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: attention to. This jury was always very attentive, and in

707
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: the closing in particular, you know, it looked like there

708
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: wasn't much that Jim Griffin was saying they were buying,

709
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: and um, I thought it would happen. I felt it

710
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: would happen. So there's a huge releaf when it happened.

711
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: Because you know, I'm I'm privy to a lot of

712
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: information that didn't make it into the trial. Things that

713
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: jury didn't hear, the public doesn't know about it, and

714
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: so I knew what I just well, well you know that,

715
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: just throw me about friend. Yeah. So so at one

716
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: point in the in the examination, I started talking about

717
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: these requests to admit, and I knew that Maggie was

718
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: upset about the lawsuit. Um. This would have been in

719
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,720
Speaker 1: the fall of twenty and I sent some requests to admit.

720
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: There was a flight of social media um evidence about

721
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: Paul's use of alcohol. Maggie had liked those posts um,

722
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: and so I extended away to elect to keep Maggie

723
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: from being sued, so that I used that evidence in

724
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: the trial. And he denied that in December of twenty

725
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: And there's no rational reason to deny that. To force

726
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: your wife to be sued the person who, according to

727
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: his own testimony, was the sole owner of their single

728
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: biggest asset, Mozelle, you just you exposed her. You exposed

729
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 1: your assets, And there's no reason you would do that unless,

730
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe he didn't think I would sue her,

731
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: or he knew she wasn't going to be I mean,

732
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: you had to tense Lee because you had a client

733
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: to represent. You had to do extra you could do

734
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: for your client. Now, let me understand something. You offered

735
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: Murdoch the chance to do what in order to keep

736
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: Maggie from being sued. Well, so it's always been about

737
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, the whole case has been an evolution. It's

738
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: changed at different times based on you know, what Greg

739
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: Parker's doing, or based on what the media is doing.

740
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: And so I put pressure where I could put pressure

741
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: on Elk And but at that point in time, I'm

742
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: decided that I'm going to take the case. This is

743
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 1: the fall of twenty late fall, so November of twenty

744
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: and I've decided, I know I've got cancer. I've decided

745
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to move the case to be for county.

746
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: And because Parker's has a change of venue motion and

747
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: so I have a lot of evidence. There are a

748
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: number of issues that you would say, Okay, here's a

749
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: reason to sue Maggie to get this evidence in. And

750
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: I was trying to use it as as again leverage

751
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: pressure on Ellick to either one drive him to do

752
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: the right thing, or here's a way to save Maggie,

753
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: to keep her from being a specter in this circus.

754
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,919
Speaker 1: And I thought that Elleck, if he loved her, if

755
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: he wanted to protect her, if he cared about her,

756
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 1: that he would do this. And it didn't make any

757
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: difference to me. The liability was the liability. And you know,

758
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: from where I sat, he had plenty of money. I

759
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: didn't know he'd been stealing for years and years and

760
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: and um converting everything to cash and so um. So

761
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 1: I extended this way. No, he didn't do it. He

762
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: turned it down. And and you know, now you said

763
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: that magie things on social media? What what what had

764
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: she liked? Well, you know there were there were videos

765
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: of Paul and in a boat with alcohol. There were

766
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: there were photos of Paul Can summing alcohol. Uh so

767
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. And you know this case was

768
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: a negative and trust the case and so so yeah,

769
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: so that so that was relevant. And if I'm just

770
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: sueing Elec, well maybe the fact that his wife had

771
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: liked these things on social media wouldn't be relevant and

772
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't come in. So I asked Alec to admit that

773
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: everything that Maggie knew was imputed to him for purposes

774
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: of liability, and he and it's a way to protect Maggie.

775
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: Um it got the evidence in as far as I

776
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 1: was boiled that down very quickly. Mark, He is saying

777
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: that Maggie gone on social media and liked some pictures

778
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: and videos of Paul out in the boat and other places,

779
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: probably because she was liking a post of his or

780
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: somebody else's posts that had her son in it. But

781
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 1: in those pictures and videos he was drinking and possibly

782
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: on the boat or near a car, and by liking

783
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: them it could be argued that she condone drinking and driving.

784
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: And Mardoke had a chance to keep that evidence out

785
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,919
Speaker 1: and decided not to do it. You know another thing,

786
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: Mark Tinsley, is that I had more than one friend

787
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: of Maggie's come up and tell me that Maggie was

788
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: very upset just before the murders that Murdock was pressuring

789
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: her to sign her name on a property that was

790
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 1: solely in her name so Murdoch could get more money

791
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: for the bank. Basically put up one of her sole

792
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: assets as collateral for Murdock to get more money, and

793
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: she didn't want to do it, and he would not

794
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,879
Speaker 1: let it go. I mean she had to be wondering, Mark,

795
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: where's all the money. Yeah, it's not clear to me

796
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: how much Maggie knew. You know, the bank was very

797
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: complicit in helping Leek. I mean, at around the time

798
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: of the murders, he's hundreds of thousands in overdraft and

799
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: the banks covering all of them. That they're even covering

800
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: some of the overdraft fees, are waving the fees, and

801
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: so I don't know how much Maggie knew about that.

802
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: I have seen some indications that there were problems scheduling

803
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: appraisals for the property to get that second mortgage put

804
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: the bank went ahead and gave it to Alex so

805
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: they could cover up the overdraft, cover up the Ferris fees.

806
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: This is the Chris Wilson money. Tensley, come on, give

807
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: me a break. Maggie was not an idiot. She was

808
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: a smart woman. And if my husband came to me

809
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: and said, Hi, honey, can you sign this because I

810
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: want to leverage our house to get a six hundred

811
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: thousand dollars loan from the bank. I'm like, leverage our home.

812
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: No way, that's not gonna happen. Why do you need whatever?

813
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: How many hundred thousands of dollars? Anyway, you're working every day, right,

814
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: she had to have a question. I mean, this jury,

815
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: there were so many things they never knew. They never

816
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: knew about his one affair that we heard about one

817
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: of reported more than one that never came in to

818
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: the jury. Maggie knew about it, but the jury never

819
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: knew about it. I think there was a lot more

820
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: of this jury never knew about it. Hey, Mark Tinsley,

821
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: could you tell us, Remember you're not on the stand.

822
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: This is not high Tea at Windsor Castle. Tinsley, tell

823
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: us about when Vernard came up to you and approached

824
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: you about the boat lawsuit. We said it didn't happen, right,

825
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 1: you know, I was watching I watched one of the playbacks,

826
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: and what I believe Ellie leaned over to Jim and

827
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: said when I said that was he didn't say that, uh,

828
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: not denying that it didn't happen, you know, And that

829
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: was Elik. That was classic eleec Uh. You're hearing some

830
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: of the recorded conversations. I appreciate it. I would appreciate it. Uh,

831
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: it's it's just a way that he would manipulate people.

832
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: He would get in your face, he would ask you

833
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: for a favor, he would appreciate it. And that was

834
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: a form of intimidation. Didn't work. Um, you know this,

835
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: this case took on its own momentum, its own life.

836
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: It would be like trying to stop the rain at times.

837
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: But as you said, I mean I had clients to

838
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: represent and uh, and I was going to do it,

839
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: and he knew I was going to do it. That's

840
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: that's why I'm asking you. What did he say? He said, hey, bo,

841
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: what's this I've been hearing about what you've been saying.

842
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: And what he was talking about was the fact that

843
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: I was saying he was going to have to pay

844
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: personally from his own pocket to settle the case. And

845
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 1: I said, ellec, it's a bad case. If you don't

846
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: think I can burn your house down, you're wrong and

847
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: you need to get to case subtle. And that was it.

848
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: And we've never spoken since. Why did he call you both?

849
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: He called everybody both? Bow that's what hey, Yeah, that's

850
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: just what he would say. Bow okay. And did he

851
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: keep a smile on his face when he said, I

852
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: when you said, I will burn your house down if

853
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: you don't take no, No, it's sort of it's sort

854
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: of a sneer. He's he's he's very close. He's a

855
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: big guy. Uh, he's very close, within six inches. It's

856
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: it's very close. It's a crowded room, you know. The

857
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: irony I think. I think Judge Newman was was not

858
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: that far away when it happened. Um, but yeah, no,

859
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: there was no smiling on the either side. Hey, Tinsley,

860
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: is Judge Newman always like this. I suspect that he

861
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: is very calm, He's almost paternal And when he got murder,

862
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: like I said, he didn't yell at him or preach

863
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: at him. He just spoke very calmly. But his words

864
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: were very heavy. Oh his words. Oh yeah, I mean,

865
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: you know, I've said a number of times today. And

866
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: I went back and told Judge Newman I thought it

867
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: was the most compelling and articulate thing I've ever heard

868
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: another person say, not something they're reading from, not a

869
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: speech that's been written. And I'm sure he'd given some

870
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: thought to it. But he is the best of the best.

871
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: His temperament is the epitome of what you want in

872
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: a good judge. He's smart. I think he made all

873
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: the right rulings. You know, there were times when he

874
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: didn't let things in. Even when I was testifying, he

875
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: let a lot in. But I think that he did

876
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: a good job. He tried a cleancase, and I liked

877
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: the way he confronted Elik. It was you know, there

878
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: were so many people in the courtroom, myself included, who

879
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: would like to have said those things to Elik we

880
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: had I knew Paul Murdick, I knew Maggie. I knew Paul.

881
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 1: There's pictures that float around on the internet, Paul in

882
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: my boat and we caught a fish when he's about

883
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: eight years old. And I would like to have been

884
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: able to say the things that Judge and even said

885
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: to Helec in that moment. And and so I felt

886
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: like it was for the people who knew this family,

887
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: for the people who knew Elek did that moment, that

888
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: time that Judge Newman took was special. It was emotional

889
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: for me. So but I appreciated his words very much.

890
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: Mark Tinsley, very well known civil attorney throughout South Carolina,

891
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: and beyond. Did you hear the judge bring up Kobe

892
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: Bryant at the end of sentencing. Apparently somebody in the

893
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: courtroom got a picture or took a picture of a picture.

894
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: Now I'm surmising from what the judge said that it

895
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: was a picture of the victims at the murder scene,

896
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: because he tied it into Kobe Bryant, and he reminded

897
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: everybody of the recent multi million, yeah, multi billion dollar

898
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: lawsuit against everybody who had anything to do with the

899
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: picture of Kobe and his daughter's remains. God rest their

900
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: soul when they died, and Kobe's wife got all over

901
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: them and got that multimillion dollar judgment because of the

902
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 1: release of those photos. The illegal, an inappropriate release of

903
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: those photos that caused nothing but grief for her and

904
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: her family. What was the judge talking about? What happened?

905
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 1: Do we know yet? No, it sounded like it was

906
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: an autopsy photo though that someone in the courtroom. And

907
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, they're not too many people in the courtroom

908
01:03:53,560 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: who have poems. First of all, only lawyers and maybe

909
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: port staff that had phones. But I tell you this

910
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: speed with which sled in Kylton County Sheriff's department identified

911
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: the person who called into bomb threat. I have no

912
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 1: doubt that they will pretty quickly ferret out the person

913
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: who took that photo as well. I saw the Murdoch

914
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: family coming in with drinks and candy, and they were

915
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: pretty open about it. And at one juncture I saw

916
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: one of the women, not Murdach's sister and not the

917
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: girlfriend of Buster, because I know those two by sight,

918
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: but it was another woman with the Murdoch family that

919
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: had an Apple Watch. I finally got rid of my

920
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,919
Speaker 1: eye watching, came in with my fitbit because every day

921
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: when you'd unless you want to de lie about it,

922
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: they would ask me, do you have your cell phone?

923
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: Do you have an eyewatch? And the last thing you

924
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: want to do is get caught lying to a sheriff

925
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: or Abella. So most people didn't take them in, but

926
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: I guess somebody got them in tensely. Yeah, somebody did,

927
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: That's why I said. And there weren't that many people

928
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: that were allowed to have phones, Lawyers who were allowed

929
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: to have phones, people participating in the trial I think

930
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: had phones, so and then some of the I guess

931
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: court staff, but you know the people that work in

932
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: this Courthouse. The people have worked in this county and

933
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: putting this case on, They've shown everyone so much respect.

934
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 1: They've done such a good job. Becky Hill at the

935
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 1: Clucker Court here's done a phenomenal job. But they'll figure

936
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: out who did it. I mean, I don't I have

937
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: no doubt about that. Oh yeah, and you think it

938
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: was actually an autopsy photos that's what I thought. I

939
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: heard the judge sake was the autopsic. God, I haven't

940
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 1: seen it, Okay, Yeah, Tensley, I just want to thank

941
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 1: you for being with us. We watched you on the stand.

942
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: That's some grace under pressure, and I'm really proud of

943
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 1: another lawyer that does the right thing with the butt

944
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: of so many jokes, and many of us deserve it.

945
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: But when you were pressured, you said no, I'm representing

946
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 1: my clients and to hell with you. That took some guts, Stansey,

947
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: thank you for what I appreciate that. Guys, I'm hearing

948
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 1: in my ear that we are now being joined by

949
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: one of the stars, if I can use that word

950
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: the trial, and this is doctor Kinzie. He was on

951
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 1: the stand for a long time during the trial, and

952
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: he underwent a scorching cross examination. And when I say scorching,

953
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: I don't mean that he was accinerated. I mean he

954
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: endured a scorching a cross examination. We're trying to get

955
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 1: him hooked up right now, and we're waiting for crating

956
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: Waters to come out of the courthouse, as well as

957
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 1: Alan Wilson, the South Carolina Attorney General, to join us.

958
01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: You were just hearing Mark Tinsley, attorney representing the family

959
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: of teen girl Mallory Beach, who lost her life while

960
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: being a guest on a Murdoch boat. That son, Paul

961
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 1: Murdoch was driving, as I say, high as a kite

962
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: and drunk as a skunk. She went flying off that

963
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: boat when he crashed into easily visible cement pilings. Doctor

964
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: Michelle dupree with me. You and I went out on

965
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: the water to the water and drove very carefully at

966
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 1: about four miles an hour through those cement pilings because

967
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: they're on either side of the river, and then you

968
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 1: go under a bridge, so your path is blocked. You've

969
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: got the water, sment piling, sement pilings, and a bridge

970
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: over it. And he went flying through there at speeds

971
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: I've been told we're between forty and sixty mph on

972
01:07:54,600 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: a speedboat a crash, Filene Nancy, very treacherous, Anie. And

973
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: when Mallory's body was found three days later, her whole

974
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: body was bloated from being under water. What was the

975
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: actual cause of Mallory's death. That's the case that Tensely

976
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 1: was repping her family was at by drowning or did

977
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,799
Speaker 1: she break her vertebra when she flew off of the boat.

978
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: It was actually drowning, and there was also blunt force

979
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: trauma when she hit her head. You know, after you

980
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: do so much work with the Medical Examiner's office and

981
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 1: you finally come up with a cause of death and

982
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: you go through the very difficult process, it must be

983
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:47,759
Speaker 1: very deflating to find out that there's Alex Murdock trying

984
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 1: to beg bar would still away the case and try

985
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: to get it to settle for less than it's worth. Absolutely, Nancy.

986
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: The victims always deserve justice, and there there's always somebody

987
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 1: I guess trying to prevent that or trying to mitigate that,

988
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: and so it's very rewarding, especially in this case where

989
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: they actually do get justice. It doesn't bring them back,

990
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: but at least I get something. Guys, we were here

991
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: kempt outside the courthouse. I see movement at the podium,

992
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 1: but we're expecting the defense to come out at any

993
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 1: moment joining me. Is high profile defense lawyer Del Carson.

994
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: Deal Again, what do you expect the defense to say

995
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 1: they're about to take the podium. What he's innocent, he

996
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: was wrongly convicted, sled did a bad job, The judge

997
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: is bad, the prosecutors are abad. What can they say?

998
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: We vowed to appeal, we are going to appeal. We

999
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: respect the court and the jury's decision. They're gonna light

1000
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:50,440
Speaker 1: sho all of that because they don't want to irritate

1001
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:54,440
Speaker 1: someone who might be a witness leader, or provide information

1002
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: about what happened inside the jury panel, all of those things.

1003
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: So you don't want to step onto many touch because

1004
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,879
Speaker 1: that could impact your ability to successfully bring an appeal.

1005
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: But of course, as you know, the appelate courts can't

1006
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: see the jurors. So this trial judge is going to

1007
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: be the king of what the appellate courts see, and

1008
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 1: he's the one who will be relied on to have

1009
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,719
Speaker 1: effectively And the presumption is that he did effectively manage

1010
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: the trial, and as you've said, he did joining us

1011
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: right now is a renowned deputy Chief doctor Kenneth Kenzie,

1012
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 1: former South Carolina Law Enforcement Division Special Agent. Doctor Kenzie,

1013
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: It is a real pleasure to get to talk to

1014
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 1: you after watching you for so many hours on the stand.

1015
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:50,560
Speaker 1: What was that like, Kensey? It is my pleasure, Miss Nancy.

1016
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: It was just my part. These men and women have

1017
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: carried this football for a year and a half of

1018
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: sled agents and AG's office, and it was just time

1019
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 1: from to do my part. Guys, in the last hours,

1020
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 1: we have heard the judge hand down a sentence of

1021
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: two consecutive life sentences. That's life behind bars. With note

1022
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:15,799
Speaker 1: for all doctor Kenzie, what kept you going during this trial?

1023
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: Because you underwent a pretty scathing cross examination and survived,

1024
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: and many would argue triumphed. What kept you going during

1025
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 1: all this? Well, I thank you for that. I did

1026
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: just survive. These attorneys are top shelf on both sides,

1027
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 1: and you know it might not be that I might

1028
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 1: not be that lucky next time. But I really really

1029
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 1: felt to love and support of my team and my

1030
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:48,759
Speaker 1: family and those jurors. Those jurors, Nancy, I could feel

1031
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 1: the support from them, and I could see that they

1032
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: understood as I related that evidence to them, and I

1033
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: felt really, really comfortable, and doctor ken Kenzie joining us, Christine,

1034
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 1: could you pull up that moment where Kinzie and the

1035
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: elected South Carolina Attorney General did a reenact of the

1036
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: defense theory on how Paul's shooting went down. I mean,

1037
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 1: that was a moment I will never forget. Had you

1038
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: guys practiced that or was it a spur of the

1039
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: moment thing you did up on the stand? I asked

1040
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 1: Attorney General Wilson. He wanted me to point the gun

1041
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 1: at him, and he's a little bit taller, and I

1042
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:31,879
Speaker 1: asked him to point it at me. So we checked everything,

1043
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: and I kept that that weapon in my sight the

1044
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 1: entire time, just to be sure because of safety reasons.

1045
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 1: But I thought that would I thought that would get

1046
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: the point of cross saying it would It would hammer

1047
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:48,759
Speaker 1: in my opinion that I just don't believe that angle

1048
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,799
Speaker 1: was possible, and that although I've never worked with her before,

1049
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: I strongly agreed with the pathologist's opinion. You know, we've

1050
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 1: gotten a lot of questions on social media, doctor Kenneth Kins,

1051
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 1: why was it so important that you disprove the defense

1052
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 1: theory of the bullet path trajectory. Why was that so

1053
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 1: important to show that their theory was outlandish? Nancy, I

1054
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: agree with you, but a lot of times, you know,

1055
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: when you bring in an expert witness, they're not coming

1056
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: in to discover any evidence that wasn't discovered by the

1057
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 1: original crime scene investigation. But it kind of evens up

1058
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 1: the sides. I think they had four experts on the

1059
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: defense side. Doctor Rymer was not a paid expert. She

1060
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: was just doing her job, and sometimes you got to

1061
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: dis even it out to make it fair, and it's

1062
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 1: at No, I'm not asking you about the battle of

1063
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 1: the experts. That's not what I'm asking I'm asking Paul

1064
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 1: was killed. We know he was killed, we know Maggie

1065
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 1: was killed. But why was it so important to the

1066
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: state that you did to prove the defense theory on

1067
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: the bullet trajectory? Why was that important? I mean, Paul

1068
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: was murdered, That's what I'm at. Height. Yeah, because Nancy,

1069
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 1: because of their height requirement when they locked it into

1070
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: five foot two or five foot four. Number one, that

1071
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: there's so many variables that weren't considered there. And number two,

1072
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 1: it is so many variables you just don't know and

1073
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: it was very important to disprove that because that was

1074
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, I know it was said it was suggested

1075
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 1: by the defense, but that isn't the way I took it.

1076
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 1: I took it as an absolute, So it was important

1077
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: to disprove that. So by disproving their theory on the

1078
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: bullet trajectory, it would help attack the defense theory in hold.

1079
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,719
Speaker 1: I know you were in the courtroom throughout the trial,

1080
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,559
Speaker 1: but did you see the defense expert that came on

1081
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 1: the stand and they had this very powerful presentation with

1082
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 1: two green murder assailants and the trajectory paths in green

1083
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: going to the bodies. Do you remember that? I do

1084
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: remember it, Nancy, And I was almost tempted to talk

1085
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 1: about the two utes like in my cousin Vinnie, but

1086
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 1: I tried to keep it right and honor the victims.

1087
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: But I thought that was absolutely the epic failure on

1088
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: their behalf. Well, I gotta tell you something that was

1089
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 1: pretty slick to reenact they did with that video, But

1090
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:41,719
Speaker 1: it does not hold a candle to you and Alan Wilson,

1091
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: the Attorney General, when you acted it out on the stand,

1092
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:48,839
Speaker 1: Because when you did that, it showed in real life

1093
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 1: how unrealistic that the theory was. And I think it

1094
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: really hit home to the jury because I was watching

1095
01:15:57,240 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: the jury and not one of them had their eye

1096
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: off you. They were all looking at what you were doing.

1097
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 1: And then they looked over at Alex Murdog like, why

1098
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 1: did you even tell us all that? Because it doesn't

1099
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 1: make any sense. So, doctor Kenzie, you've got so many titles,

1100
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: what are you exactly? Nancy? I worked for an elected

1101
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: sheriff and I have for twelve years, and I'm the

1102
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm the sheriff. When the Sheriff's not around, I'm the

1103
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: number two man. But I wear many many hats. I

1104
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: still teach at Classland University as an adjunct professor. I

1105
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: provide training in firearms and that kind of thing on

1106
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:40,440
Speaker 1: my own. And I'm a father and I'm an outdoors

1107
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 1: money and I just try to I try to wear

1108
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 1: many hats. Now, how did you find yourself out at

1109
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: the crime scene? When did you go to the scene

1110
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: in the double murders. I went around the first week

1111
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 1: of December or it was either the last week of

1112
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 1: November somewhere around there. I thought it was very very

1113
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: important to go and take a look and get my

1114
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: own measurements, and what, if anything, did you learn, And

1115
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: please break it down for us. You're not on the stand,

1116
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,600
Speaker 1: explain to us when you walked into that kennel and

1117
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 1: you saw where they lost their lives. I gotta tell you,

1118
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 1: every time I went to a homicide scene, it just

1119
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 1: had a feeling to it. There was no levity, nobody

1120
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 1: would talk. There was certainly no joking because you knew

1121
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: you were standing where two people had lost their lives.

1122
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: What was it like when you first walked into that kennel. Well,

1123
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: I did feel a certain level of reverence there, and

1124
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 1: you definitely are serious. It's not a joking matter. But now,

1125
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 1: sometimes law enforcement and investigators, as you know, you've been

1126
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:54,560
Speaker 1: doing this a long time, Nancy, as you know, sometimes

1127
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 1: that's the way we deal with it. But it was

1128
01:17:56,520 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: none of that. It's just amazing how quiet and still

1129
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: it feels. You know. I described the lead prosecutor, or

1130
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: Craton Waters, is looking gaunt and pale one morning when

1131
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,639
Speaker 1: I saw him. Oh it was really early one morning

1132
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: before trial, and I've later learned he lost fifteen pounds

1133
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 1: during this trial. I was the same way during trials.

1134
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 1: I couldn't eat, I had too much to do in

1135
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 1: the lunch break and at night when I would get

1136
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 1: home to prep for the next day, and I didn't

1137
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 1: even notice what toll, if any, has this trial taken

1138
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 1: on you and your family. Well, I'm gonna be honest,

1139
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 1: I'm so fortunate to have a supporting family and Nancy.

1140
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 1: This isn't something I just started doing, And this isn't

1141
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 1: something I just started doing this way. I've been doing

1142
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: it since the late nineties. This way it's worked for me.

1143
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of sacrifices at that family, your

1144
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:56,080
Speaker 1: family has to make, and this has been validation. As

1145
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, this has really been validation from because

1146
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 1: your friends and family don't understand what investigators and prosecutors do,

1147
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: and when you're out those late nights, they don't understand it.

1148
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 1: You miss Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays. And now they

1149
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:15,720
Speaker 1: get a real understanding of what we do. And as

1150
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 1: far as Pale and Gaunt is concerned, I'm so fortunate

1151
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,839
Speaker 1: have been included in those pow wows and those evidence

1152
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 1: meetings on Sunday evenings. And that team, that team, I mean,

1153
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:30,360
Speaker 1: they're they're eating out of suit cans and power bars

1154
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 1: and including mister Wilson, I've just got so much respect

1155
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,719
Speaker 1: for them. Yeah, you know what. I would see them

1156
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 1: in our hotel when we were when they would be

1157
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: leaving for court, and they would be all business. They

1158
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't even stop for a free sausage biscuit or a

1159
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:53,760
Speaker 1: cup of coffee. They would be straight out the door

1160
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,879
Speaker 1: to get to the courthouse, and I mean early early hours,

1161
01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:01,360
Speaker 1: hours before court would start to get everything arranged. And

1162
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: you know, when you go into law enforcement, it's very

1163
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: different from what people think. It's very grueling, and if

1164
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: you're dedicated, it takes over your life and the people

1165
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 1: around you have to understand that or everybody suffers. You're

1166
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 1: not there for holidays, you can't stay for supper, you

1167
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: can't come home. You miss the concert or the church

1168
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: choir or the special Scout program because you're working. You

1169
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 1: really gave it. You're all doctor Kinsey, and I want

1170
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 1: to thank you because in that one moment when you

1171
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: did that reenact, I think it changed a lot of

1172
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 1: people's hearts and minds. You did that. You're giving everybody

1173
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: else to credit, but you did that, Kinsey. Thank you

1174
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: for being with us today. Thank you. Miss Nancy has

1175
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 1: been my pleasure. Likewise, sir, guys, I am about thirty

1176
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: feet away from the podium. I'm hearing Christine and my

1177
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:09,679
Speaker 1: ear Christine, could you tell me again what you're saying.

1178
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,719
Speaker 1: She's saying five minutes until the defense takes the podium, Guys,

1179
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 1: I talked to Christine all the time. She's joining me

1180
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 1: from New York and a tiny little dark in the

1181
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: room with people running around like mad trying to figure

1182
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 1: out what's going on at the courthouse. Christine even, I

1183
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 1: don't know what's going on out here, but I'm glad

1184
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 1: you can tell me because if you could be here.

1185
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 1: They're people and dogs and food trucks. It's but most

1186
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: people are standing around with a very pensive look on

1187
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: their faces. There's not a lot of levity, and you know,

1188
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 1: very often and I think people are actually surprised about this.

1189
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 1: Let me know when I get Eric Bland, because I've

1190
01:21:56,080 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 1: got a question for him. You know, jess got Morgan, Okay,

1191
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: Jessica Morgan. After a long trial, I think you can

1192
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:08,679
Speaker 1: relate to this. People say, oh, you gotta go celebrate tonight,

1193
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: and you know, just so they wouldn't ask any more questions,

1194
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 1: they go, oh, yeah, you know what, I couldn't wait

1195
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 1: to get to my beat up Honda and go home.

1196
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: It was more a feeling of relief, not jubilation or celebration,

1197
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 1: nothing like that at all. I mean, it goes with you.

1198
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,839
Speaker 1: It takes a little piece of your heart every trial,

1199
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 1: especially in a case like this one. Two people are

1200
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 1: just gunned down senselessly and lose the rest of their

1201
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:41,759
Speaker 1: lives and leave awake a trial of pain behind them.

1202
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 1: So I don't think anybody's gonna be out celebrating and

1203
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 1: toasting champagne tonight. No. And as a matter of fact,

1204
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: mister Waters really really put it, really put it into

1205
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: perspective last night at his pressor panc he says, I

1206
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 1: want to leave you with this. Go home, hug your family,

1207
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 1: Hug your kids, tell them that you love them. And

1208
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: you know, these trials they leave your bone weary. And

1209
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people have talked about how you have

1210
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 1: to sacrifice, you have to sacrifice these cases. I think

1211
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:17,439
Speaker 1: about the investigators, the forensics people, and they've been all

1212
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 1: hands on deck on this And can you imagine staying

1213
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 1: at that heightened state of alert where everybody's going to

1214
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:25,800
Speaker 1: be questioning everything you do? You want to make sure

1215
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:30,240
Speaker 1: that every box is ticked along the way, and it's

1216
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 1: a hypersensitivity, and you know, the human body is not

1217
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:37,360
Speaker 1: meant to stay at that level for this long, long

1218
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 1: period of time. You know, everybody that's involved in this

1219
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: probably needs about a three week vacation, maybe shut everything out.

1220
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 1: But you know, crimes don't stop, you know, death doesn't

1221
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 1: stop happening. You still have to conduct these investigations. And

1222
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 1: that's why it's such a grind. That's why so many

1223
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:57,880
Speaker 1: people get sick, you know, and are you know, are

1224
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 1: less than they once were meanings and it really hollows

1225
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:05,240
Speaker 1: you out. So if you know somebody that's involved in

1226
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 1: the investigation, somebody that really puts your shoulder through this

1227
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 1: form with stone, have him on the back. Don't thank you,

1228
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 1: because it's a hard, hard life and most people don't

1229
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: understand what goes. Guys, I want you to hear our

1230
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 1: cut eighteen. This is really important what the judge said.

1231
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: We haven't played it for you yet, but having been

1232
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 1: law enforcement and victims' rights advocate my whole legal career,

1233
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:35,600
Speaker 1: this really hit home about how these murderers and this

1234
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 1: trial have been an assault. I'm not just Maggie and Paul,

1235
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:47,639
Speaker 1: but on our justice system. But there are other victims

1236
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 1: whose cases deserved to be heard, and this case has

1237
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 1: jumped some of those other cases, perhaps jumped at the

1238
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: because of this case, resulting in an assault on the

1239
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 1: integrity of the judicial system in our state. Even during

1240
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:13,640
Speaker 1: this trial, the law enforcement had been aligned for the

1241
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:21,640
Speaker 1: past five or six weeks by one who had access

1242
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 1: to to the wields of justice to be able to

1243
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:40,879
Speaker 1: deflect the investigation. There you hear the judge talking about

1244
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:45,400
Speaker 1: an assault on the justice system. Guys, I want to

1245
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 1: go to a lawyer that is intimately familiar with this

1246
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 1: case who has represented from the get go the Centerfield family.

1247
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 1: We've heard a lot about Gloria Centerfield helped raise a

1248
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 1: buster and Paul Urdog was the housekeeper for the Murdoch

1249
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 1: family from Maggie and Miss Satterfield lost her life at

1250
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 1: the foot of the steps right there at Moselle. A

1251
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,759
Speaker 1: lawsuit ensued and that was one of the triggering points

1252
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,920
Speaker 1: of all of this, when Alex Murdoch stole the money,

1253
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 1: millions of dollars that were supposed to go to the

1254
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 1: Satterfield family. I remember one of the sadder Field children

1255
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 1: as an adult male who is clearly developmentally and socially challenge.

1256
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:40,600
Speaker 1: He just can't go off and get a job like

1257
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 1: you and I can go look for a job or

1258
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:46,920
Speaker 1: take care of himself the way we can living in

1259
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 1: a mobile home that was under foreclosure and Murdoch stole

1260
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:59,799
Speaker 1: his money. Eric Blayne, thank you for being with us. Okay,

1261
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,639
Speaker 1: what do you have to say now that the verdict

1262
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:06,519
Speaker 1: is filing an It happened, Bland, it happened. They found

1263
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:10,679
Speaker 1: in guilty. Yes, you and I were a stereo sound

1264
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:14,880
Speaker 1: daily about we thought the prosecution was doing a good

1265
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 1: job when most other people were commenting about what a

1266
01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 1: great job that defense was doing and criticizing a prosecution.

1267
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 1: Nancy Maya Angelo said, when somebody shows you who they are,

1268
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:32,679
Speaker 1: believe it. Judge Newman is somebody that needs to be believed.

1269
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:36,479
Speaker 1: You see what you get. I argued against Alex getting

1270
01:27:36,520 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 1: bond in October of twenty twenty one on Gloria Saderfield's case,

1271
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:46,719
Speaker 1: and Judge Newman denied him bond on a financial crimes case.

1272
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,640
Speaker 1: Alex Murdole showed us who he was last week, a

1273
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:54,799
Speaker 1: liar and a con artist, and I see brightness happening

1274
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's a little bit like Shawshank redemption. You

1275
01:27:57,479 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 1: go through the sewage play and you come out clean

1276
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:03,679
Speaker 1: on the other side. This judge is a lawyer at heart,

1277
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 1: and I think his sentence showed that he has been

1278
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:11,879
Speaker 1: mortally wounded by Alex mrdau's behavior of lying and cheating

1279
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:16,480
Speaker 1: on his clients and denigrating and staining our legal profession.

1280
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 1: And that's why he offered him a lifeline today to

1281
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:24,120
Speaker 1: show some contrition. And Alex thumbed his nose in this

1282
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 1: judge's face, and the judge's response was a very medieval

1283
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:33,240
Speaker 1: kind of colloquy, ending with I am now going to

1284
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: schedule every one of your financial crime cases because I'm

1285
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 1: the judge on all ninety nine of them. And Maggie

1286
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 1: and Paul got justice over the last six weeks, and

1287
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,080
Speaker 1: I intend to get justice for every single other victim.

1288
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:48,920
Speaker 1: And it came out loud and clear. You know, it's

1289
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:52,640
Speaker 1: interesting he did not have to hurt his chances on

1290
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 1: appeal planned if he apologized for all the pain he caused,

1291
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,960
Speaker 1: if he had confessed up, and again, he did not

1292
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:06,559
Speaker 1: have to say I did it. He could. He didn't

1293
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 1: have to do that. You've had people saw you've sentence

1294
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 1: said yeah, you were, You've sentenced them. Nancy, You've had

1295
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: defendants who don't have to admit their guilt at the

1296
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:20,760
Speaker 1: allocution stage, but they show contrition. They show contrition for

1297
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:24,760
Speaker 1: lying to their family or lying to law enforcement. He

1298
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: didn't even apologize to his living son, Buster for lying

1299
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:33,559
Speaker 1: to him and making his life miserable. The guy is

1300
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:37,679
Speaker 1: a narcissist and a psychopath. And I said twenty four

1301
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 1: months ago he's a monster, a monar day monster, and

1302
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 1: dog gone it. If this judge didn't call him a

1303
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: monster today, I mean, he could have stood up and

1304
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 1: without saying. For an appellate court, of course, they're not

1305
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 1: supposed to look at the allocution as evidence, but they

1306
01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 1: all know what happened. They're watching TV. They know. They

1307
01:29:57,320 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 1: say the record, and it is part of the record.

1308
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: If he had said, I am sorry, I'm sorry, I'm

1309
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:07,320
Speaker 1: sorry Buster, I'm sorry Judge for all the pain I've

1310
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 1: caused my family, for the lying and the cheating, for

1311
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:14,800
Speaker 1: everything I did wrong, And sitting here in court has

1312
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 1: made me realize the way I was living was wrong,

1313
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:21,280
Speaker 1: and how many people I heard, and I wish I

1314
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 1: could make it up to them. No, we didn't hear that.

1315
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 1: We heard another What was he thinking? And why did

1316
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 1: they let him do that. I once had a federal

1317
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,720
Speaker 1: judge say to one of my clients who had his

1318
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 1: probation revoked, if I could give you more than the

1319
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 1: original six months sentence, I would. I almost heard that

1320
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 1: from Judge Newman today, if I could give you more

1321
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 1: than life without parole, I would. But still Newman remained

1322
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:54,560
Speaker 1: even killed and well tempered, and it was very painful

1323
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 1: to hear him describe how not only had the murder

1324
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 1: has been an assault on are just to system, an

1325
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:06,679
Speaker 1: assault on sled, the way that lawforcement was maligned unrightfully,

1326
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:12,320
Speaker 1: that the girards had sacrificed, everybody had sacrificed because of Murdoch.

1327
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: But when he talked about the law and the courthouse

1328
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:20,080
Speaker 1: and how he had to take down the portrait of

1329
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:25,599
Speaker 1: an honorable judge so his grandson could be could be tried,

1330
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: and that very courtroom for double murder man, he really

1331
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:33,639
Speaker 1: brought it all home, didn't he Bland? He did, and

1332
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:37,519
Speaker 1: he kind of encapsulated for all of us. You know,

1333
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 1: sometimes judges are very stoic, but I think this was

1334
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:45,840
Speaker 1: one of the most heartfelt sentencing I've heard in a

1335
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 1: long time. You know, he he doesn't understand this monster

1336
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,479
Speaker 1: in front of him. There was a chance that he

1337
01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:58,840
Speaker 1: could have shown any type of acceptance of responsibility for

1338
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:05,559
Speaker 1: utilize the justice system in a way that it perverted it.

1339
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:09,600
Speaker 1: But he didn't. It's a continuation of this defense that

1340
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:13,720
Speaker 1: almost was tone deaf from the start, to attacking the

1341
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 1: police unmercifully, to attacking the prosecution, and without acknowledging what

1342
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:26,879
Speaker 1: kind of father, what kind of husband would lie about

1343
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:30,479
Speaker 1: being with your son and your wife in their very

1344
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:35,120
Speaker 1: last minutes. It was stunning in Harputley and Griffin have

1345
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 1: so much experience, a wealth of experience, and you know

1346
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:42,880
Speaker 1: the jury didn't buy it. Listen, they not only found

1347
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:45,880
Speaker 1: him guilty, they found him incredibly guilty. It was one

1348
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:50,760
Speaker 1: of the fastest resolutions of a deliberations I've ever seen.

1349
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 1: They must have taken a vote nance and everybody raised

1350
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:56,799
Speaker 1: their hands and then everybody look around and say, okay,

1351
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 1: we just voted twelfth guilty. What do we do now

1352
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:02,559
Speaker 1: that Eric Bland, we see the podium there and we're

1353
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 1: waiting for the defense team to take the mic. What

1354
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 1: can they possibly say Bland. Well, I think they're gonna

1355
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:13,240
Speaker 1: say that they gave him his full cup of justice

1356
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:16,760
Speaker 1: opportunity that you know, they disagree with the verdict. They're

1357
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:18,640
Speaker 1: going to say all the things that everybody said to

1358
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:21,840
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace when she won her trials. We disagree with

1359
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:25,760
Speaker 1: the verdict. We think there was not enough evidence put

1360
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 1: forth by the government to show that there was a

1361
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:31,880
Speaker 1: case free from reasonable doubt. And they're going to say,

1362
01:33:32,040 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: we intend to appeal. We think this judge made critical

1363
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:38,919
Speaker 1: legal errors all the things. But I debated Alan Dershowitz

1364
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 1: last night Nancy for fifty minutes, and one thing he

1365
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 1: said resonated with me. When a defendant takes the stand,

1366
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:49,880
Speaker 1: their cases are only reversed on appeal less than one

1367
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 1: percent of the time. So try I think an appellate

1368
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 1: courts to disregard four oh four b arguments and say, Alex,

1369
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:01,839
Speaker 1: a jury could have inferred your guilt based on your life. Guys,

1370
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 1: we see them testing the mice, and that's exactly what's

1371
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:06,840
Speaker 1: going to happen. Yeah, you know what, Eric Bland, Your

1372
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 1: white stats show that you're much less likely to get

1373
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:14,160
Speaker 1: a reversal on appeal if you take the stand. I

1374
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:19,360
Speaker 1: mean look at Simpson that poc technical legal term. He

1375
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 1: got acquitted because somehow Cochrane kept him off to stand

1376
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:28,519
Speaker 1: and Dershowitz now no Dershy sand dersha Witz said last

1377
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 1: night that the difference between Alex and OJ is that

1378
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 1: OJ listened to me. He said, I had two weeks

1379
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:38,679
Speaker 1: worth of discussions with him, and he listened to his lawyers.

1380
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 1: But Alex wasn't going to listen to Jim Griffin and

1381
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:46,320
Speaker 1: Dick Harpootley. Hey, guys, as we wait, I want you

1382
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:49,800
Speaker 1: to hear something that the judge said in court. It's

1383
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:53,519
Speaker 1: our cut thirteen. And he looked Murlock in the eye

1384
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,519
Speaker 1: and he said, people that have committed less crimes than

1385
01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 1: you have gotten the death penalty listen based on statutory

1386
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 1: the statutory aggravating circumstances of two or more people being

1387
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 1: murdered by the defendant by one act or pursuant to

1388
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:18,479
Speaker 1: one scheme or course of conduct. I don't question at

1389
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:24,960
Speaker 1: all the decision of the state not to pursue the

1390
01:35:25,080 --> 01:35:28,280
Speaker 1: death penalty. But as I said here in this courtroom,

1391
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 1: and look around the many portraits of judges and other

1392
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:40,640
Speaker 1: court officials, and reflect on the fact that over the

1393
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 1: past century, your family, including you, have been prosecuting people

1394
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:57,160
Speaker 1: here in this courtroom, and many have received the death penalty,

1395
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 1: probably for lesser conduct. Remind me of the expression you

1396
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:08,440
Speaker 1: gave them a witness stand, Was it tangled or tangled

1397
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:14,920
Speaker 1: web we weave? What did you mean by that? Wild

1398
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: continue to laugh, And the question is when will it end?

1399
01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:28,880
Speaker 1: When will it end? And it's ended already for the

1400
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:34,120
Speaker 1: jury because they've concluded that you continue to lie and

1401
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:41,400
Speaker 1: lie throughout your testimony, and truer words were never spoken.

1402
01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 1: What a tangle will the web we weave? When first

1403
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:51,360
Speaker 1: we practice to deceive? And of all people, Alex Murdoch

1404
01:36:51,479 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 1: has said that, guys. Speaking of Alex Murdog, his defense

1405
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 1: team is just about to come out and take a

1406
01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:03,280
Speaker 1: podium where there's gotta be twenty microphones on it, all

1407
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 1: wedged in in front of each other and around each other,

1408
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,000
Speaker 1: and I think they're going to say exactly what Eric

1409
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 1: Bland just told us. We've heard it many many times before.

1410
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:17,800
Speaker 1: We vowed to a pill his constitutional rights were infringed,

1411
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:21,639
Speaker 1: that the state did this, There wasn't enough evidence, the jury,

1412
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:24,559
Speaker 1: the blah blah. The next thing I know, Eric Bland,

1413
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:27,120
Speaker 1: they're gonna blame the chicken and the guinea. The only

1414
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:30,040
Speaker 1: thing they didn't bring in was the dog, Bubba Listen.

1415
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 1: I battled a nationally known defense attorney who said as

1416
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:36,680
Speaker 1: far as short as a week ago that there was

1417
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:39,519
Speaker 1: more evidence to convict Bubba of murder than there was

1418
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:42,920
Speaker 1: of Alex. Look today that he is not only a

1419
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:45,519
Speaker 1: serial pencilinger like I called him for the last year

1420
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:48,280
Speaker 1: and a half, he's now a serial murderer. He killed

1421
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:52,200
Speaker 1: two people, he did any in cold blood, and I'd

1422
01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:54,439
Speaker 1: love to win. Judge Neuman said, You're you're gonna have

1423
01:37:54,479 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 1: to spend your life with your soul and then you're

1424
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:58,960
Speaker 1: going to have to go to bed every night with

1425
01:37:59,040 --> 01:38:01,679
Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul, but not in the way that you think,

1426
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:04,800
Speaker 1: in a different way for what you did to them,

1427
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:06,719
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to live with that. I thought

1428
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:11,040
Speaker 1: that was just brilliant, you know, Eric boyand we have

1429
01:38:11,120 --> 01:38:14,679
Speaker 1: been flooded with questions about what did Murdoch really do

1430
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:20,120
Speaker 1: with fifty grand a week? Nobody believes he used a

1431
01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 1: full fifty grand on opioid pills a week. I've heard

1432
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:30,280
Speaker 1: about private planes, I've heard about very expensive and lavish taste.

1433
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:33,599
Speaker 1: What were they doing with all that money? Bland, don't

1434
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,559
Speaker 1: hold back. I think he's a land baron. A lot

1435
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:41,759
Speaker 1: of the lawyers in the PMPD law firm owned thousands

1436
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:44,679
Speaker 1: and thousands of acres in the books and these four

1437
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:48,320
Speaker 1: county areas. He didn't have a ferrari, he didn't have

1438
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: an airplane. Maybe he was getting skimmed a little bit

1439
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 1: on his drug money. Maybe there's four or five different

1440
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:56,960
Speaker 1: people who take a taste of every time cousin and

1441
01:38:57,080 --> 01:38:59,880
Speaker 1: he goes and buys him his pills. I tend to

1442
01:38:59,880 --> 01:39:02,360
Speaker 1: think there may have been some kind of blackmailing involved.

1443
01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:06,200
Speaker 1: But we'll know. The FBI's not done. You know, the

1444
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:10,680
Speaker 1: FBI's a backstop for all the state charges, and I

1445
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 1: gotta believe they're using their confidential informants and they're going

1446
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:17,160
Speaker 1: to have answers for us soon. Well, they had a

1447
01:39:17,160 --> 01:39:20,839
Speaker 1: pretty lavish lifestyle, and though he did not drive a Ferrari,

1448
01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:25,600
Speaker 1: but the way that they lived was pretty high on

1449
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 1: the hog. I still don't know where all that money went.

1450
01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 1: And yes, we heard a lot about land deals that

1451
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:37,440
Speaker 1: had gone bad, but still that should be easily traceable.

1452
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: Explain to those just hearing it, what involvement is the

1453
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:44,919
Speaker 1: FBI have now well, I think they are still involved

1454
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:48,759
Speaker 1: because they just tried Russell la Feed on bank fraud,

1455
01:39:48,760 --> 01:39:52,200
Speaker 1: wire fraud conspiracy charges two months ago, and that was

1456
01:39:52,240 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 1: his accomplice to get money from the bank and steal

1457
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:58,680
Speaker 1: money from a lot of the victims conservatorship accounts that

1458
01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 1: existed at the bank. I think that they're going to

1459
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 1: wait for the state to finish their charges and then

1460
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 1: we have decup tax charges that he's going to get

1461
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:11,760
Speaker 1: named for bank fraud, wire fraud conspiracy charges. Drug. There

1462
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:15,000
Speaker 1: are drug charges that are pending against others. The reason

1463
01:40:15,080 --> 01:40:18,479
Speaker 1: Nancy that they've defense haven't charged them yet is because

1464
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 1: hart Putley and would have marched them down to federal

1465
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 1: court and pled immediately straight up to the charges so

1466
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:26,439
Speaker 1: he could do his time in a you know, a

1467
01:40:26,520 --> 01:40:29,680
Speaker 1: cushy federal prison like Seymour Johnson Air Force Base. But

1468
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 1: now he goes to the big house where you send

1469
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:35,479
Speaker 1: a lot of people, the rapist, the murderers, the violent

1470
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:39,599
Speaker 1: crime criminals, and he's going to a place nance where

1471
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,360
Speaker 1: the fellow prisoners they don't look too kindly at guys

1472
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:48,320
Speaker 1: that kill kids. Let me ask you, what facility do

1473
01:40:48,360 --> 01:40:53,600
Speaker 1: you think will ultimately be his home Kirkwood in Columbia

1474
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 1: or Bishopville in Bishopville, South Carolina, maximum security prison. I

1475
01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: think he's going to look at a lot of time

1476
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:05,120
Speaker 1: of solitary confinement and maybe over the years he becomes

1477
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:09,200
Speaker 1: a jail house lawyer. But look, we'll never see him again.

1478
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:11,719
Speaker 1: We'll move on. It's going to take us a while

1479
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:15,559
Speaker 1: to get this stink out of our body, but there'll

1480
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:18,200
Speaker 1: come a time where the Myrtle name isn't there anymore.

1481
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:20,599
Speaker 1: I feel like I played a role in my partner,

1482
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:23,840
Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter, played a role in taking down this dynasty.

1483
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:27,080
Speaker 1: And look, here's the thing from a civil lawyer standpoint,

1484
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:30,679
Speaker 1: which is predominantly my practice. In two thousand and five,

1485
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:34,400
Speaker 1: Hampton County was voted by the American Bar Association as

1486
01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:37,719
Speaker 1: the third worst judicial hellhole in the country, behind Cook County,

1487
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:43,400
Speaker 1: Illinois and Harris, Texas. So you know where we are. Nance. Yeah,

1488
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:46,519
Speaker 1: I know what they say, but this case seems to

1489
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:48,800
Speaker 1: be turning that around at least a little bit. You

1490
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:52,439
Speaker 1: know what I noticed, Bland. I know you're saying the

1491
01:41:52,439 --> 01:41:57,040
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz and do you remember when, first of all,

1492
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:59,360
Speaker 1: the first witch got hit by a house so you

1493
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:02,439
Speaker 1: could see your sticking out. And then in the end

1494
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 1: where the wicked which was killed. Yesterday, when the verdict

1495
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:13,120
Speaker 1: came down, people are I can't believe it. They could

1496
01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: not believe that Alex Murdogue, even though they thought it

1497
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 1: was guilty, had actually been convicted. They couldn't take it.

1498
01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 1: Did you see him shrinking? Didn't you see him like

1499
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:25,920
Speaker 1: and the only thing that was going to be left

1500
01:42:26,280 --> 01:42:28,599
Speaker 1: was his clothes on the floor. I thought the same

1501
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 1: thing Nancy. I saw when the guilty and how he

1502
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:35,639
Speaker 1: looked and everything, and he didn't look around. He just

1503
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:38,920
Speaker 1: no tears. There weren't those crocodile tears. I just felt

1504
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:43,000
Speaker 1: like he poofed. He's done this. This mystique is over.

1505
01:42:43,479 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 1: He's humans. We've gotten now behind the curtain and seeing

1506
01:42:47,479 --> 01:42:50,719
Speaker 1: Alex for who he is. Do you believe that Buster

1507
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:54,800
Speaker 1: Murdogue will ultimately go back to law school or do

1508
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:56,400
Speaker 1: you think he's going to turn his back on the

1509
01:42:56,439 --> 01:42:59,240
Speaker 1: whole kitten glutle. I don't know. I don't think he's

1510
01:42:59,280 --> 01:43:00,760
Speaker 1: going to be able to get back in. They put

1511
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:03,960
Speaker 1: some very tight conditions on him getting back in last year,

1512
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,680
Speaker 1: and I was told it was his last opportunity to

1513
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:09,439
Speaker 1: avail himself of it, and he doesn't. Look he's a

1514
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:13,599
Speaker 1: victim here, regardless of what you think, him staying behind

1515
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:16,320
Speaker 1: his father and I understand it. But this kid lost

1516
01:43:16,360 --> 01:43:19,679
Speaker 1: a mother, a brother, and now a father. His family

1517
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:23,200
Speaker 1: name is tarnished forever. And I'd made somewhat light of

1518
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:25,840
Speaker 1: it by saying, look, dye your hair black changer named

1519
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 1: the fred Reynolds and moved to Montana. He may have

1520
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:31,599
Speaker 1: to actually do something like that dance. I don't think

1521
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 1: anybody faulted him for believing his father, and in fact,

1522
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:39,439
Speaker 1: I've had I can't even think of one adult victim

1523
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:43,200
Speaker 1: that ever thought their parent was a killer in the

1524
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 1: face of overwhelming evidence. And I would not expect Buster

1525
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:51,200
Speaker 1: Murdog to believe any of it, no matter how strong

1526
01:43:51,240 --> 01:43:53,960
Speaker 1: the evidence. I don't think Buster will ever believe his

1527
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:57,400
Speaker 1: father is guilty Bland. I wouldn't expect him to, would you, No.

1528
01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:01,280
Speaker 1: I think though he had to ask himself some hard questions. Look,

1529
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:03,800
Speaker 1: we go home and we feel the silence of the

1530
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:07,240
Speaker 1: sleep and the silence of our bedroom. I think what

1531
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:10,360
Speaker 1: he heard at this trial when he learned, if he

1532
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:13,639
Speaker 1: learned at the first time last Thursday, that his father

1533
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:16,839
Speaker 1: has lied to him for two and a half, almost

1534
01:44:16,880 --> 01:44:19,799
Speaker 1: two years, about the death of his mother and brother,

1535
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 1: and he learned about the depth of his financial theft

1536
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:27,320
Speaker 1: of clients and friends and the theft of the sadder

1537
01:44:27,360 --> 01:44:31,040
Speaker 1: field money. I just feel like this poor kid could

1538
01:44:31,080 --> 01:44:34,880
Speaker 1: be lost. I mean, looking for his identity. You know.

1539
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,760
Speaker 1: It's just sad. He's going to need some help, and

1540
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:39,640
Speaker 1: I hope his family is going to be there, and

1541
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:43,080
Speaker 1: I sense they will be, and his friends, and you know,

1542
01:44:43,160 --> 01:44:45,840
Speaker 1: maybe he catches his footing. Look, we don't give up

1543
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:50,040
Speaker 1: on people in America. That's the beauty of us. We're second, third,

1544
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:52,400
Speaker 1: fourth chance people and I love our country for it.

1545
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:56,240
Speaker 1: And maybe the best thing for him is to make

1546
01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:59,120
Speaker 1: a fresh break, get a fresh start. Looks like he's

1547
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:02,760
Speaker 1: an intelligent young man and see if he can make

1548
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:04,439
Speaker 1: a go of it. He's young, he's got his whole

1549
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 1: life ahead of him. But it's going to be a

1550
01:45:06,439 --> 01:45:09,720
Speaker 1: lonely life. Guys. Many people have asked, how did the

1551
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:13,160
Speaker 1: jury come up with a decision in three hours after

1552
01:45:13,280 --> 01:45:15,920
Speaker 1: weeks of testimony. I want you to take a listen

1553
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 1: to our cut nine. This juror who I watched throughout

1554
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:23,400
Speaker 1: the trial who kept a poker face. I might add,

1555
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 1: let's hear what he had to say with our friends

1556
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:34,200
Speaker 1: a GMA. He started deliberating going through to affiance. Everybody

1557
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:39,880
Speaker 1: was pretty much talking, and I told him about forty

1558
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 1: five minutes later, we, after all our deliberating, figured it out.

1559
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:50,600
Speaker 1: So it's basically forty five minutes for you guys to

1560
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,519
Speaker 1: come to a decision. Probably about forty five maybe an

1561
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:56,920
Speaker 1: hour if you really look at everything, it's it's it's

1562
01:45:56,960 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 1: all planned clear. Was anyone surprise, Eric Bland? Were you

1563
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:08,040
Speaker 1: surprised in the three hour turnaround? Shocked? Shocked? Because I

1564
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:13,240
Speaker 1: really thought that some juror would have questions based on

1565
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:16,360
Speaker 1: I've never heard anybody say Alex is innocent, not in

1566
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:18,200
Speaker 1: these six weeks. But I've heard a lot of people

1567
01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:21,240
Speaker 1: say he did it. But I think that there's enough

1568
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:24,040
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt to make people pause. But you know what

1569
01:46:24,160 --> 01:46:26,559
Speaker 1: we forget all the time. You know, I think I'm

1570
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:28,559
Speaker 1: somewhat smart. I'm not as smart as you are. You

1571
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:31,360
Speaker 1: have much more experience than me, and we could see it.

1572
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:34,120
Speaker 1: But there's twenty four years on that jury in twenty

1573
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:37,080
Speaker 1: four eyes, and they say see things and hear things

1574
01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:40,519
Speaker 1: and process things. A lot faster than I can. And

1575
01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:43,200
Speaker 1: they got in there and they use their God given

1576
01:46:43,240 --> 01:46:46,759
Speaker 1: common sense and said it doesn't make sense any other way.

1577
01:46:47,240 --> 01:46:51,000
Speaker 1: Eric Bland, attorney representing the Centerfield family, thank you. You've

1578
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:53,439
Speaker 1: been in the courtroom from the very very beginning and

1579
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:58,679
Speaker 1: been part of this story, this case since a way

1580
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:03,360
Speaker 1: back when Ria Saderfield fell to her death. That's how

1581
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:07,759
Speaker 1: long you've been About three inches of Alex Murdog's tailpipe.

1582
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm one of the og lawyers in this case, and Dance.

1583
01:47:10,920 --> 01:47:14,360
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us. Man. I'll see you soon. Guys.

1584
01:47:15,040 --> 01:47:19,639
Speaker 1: We are seeing movement. We see, my dear, We see

1585
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,600
Speaker 1: what I think is one of the female members of

1586
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:24,760
Speaker 1: the team coming back and forth and back and forth

1587
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:27,040
Speaker 1: to the mic. I guess they're getting together. What in

1588
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:29,559
Speaker 1: the world they're going to say? We're waiting for the

1589
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:34,439
Speaker 1: defense to come out. And know that about four or

1590
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:39,000
Speaker 1: five blocks away from here is Alex Murdog now in

1591
01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:45,000
Speaker 1: the Carlton County jail, awaiting transport to the prison where

1592
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:50,160
Speaker 1: he will become a number on a list, an EF number,

1593
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:55,880
Speaker 1: a number assigned to him as a resident of a

1594
01:47:56,040 --> 01:48:01,599
Speaker 1: CI Correctional Institute. I want you to hear again when

1595
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:06,640
Speaker 1: he cut eleven, when he had a chance to apologize,

1596
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:11,080
Speaker 1: not even necessarily admit guilt, but had a chance to

1597
01:48:11,120 --> 01:48:14,240
Speaker 1: turn to his son and turn to the camera and

1598
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 1: turn to the judges say I'm sorry for all the

1599
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:20,439
Speaker 1: pain I've caused. I want you to hear instead what

1600
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:22,920
Speaker 1: he said. The defendant would like to address the court

1601
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:33,160
Speaker 1: though murder, good morning. I'm innis. I would never hurt

1602
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:36,519
Speaker 1: my wife Maggie, and I would never hurt muscle and Pawpaul,

1603
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:41,240
Speaker 1: Thank you, Hunt, thank you. And that's what he had

1604
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:45,439
Speaker 1: to say. He's still with the Papaw with me and

1605
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:48,639
Speaker 1: all Star panel to make sense of what we are hearing.

1606
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:52,320
Speaker 1: We have heard from Mark Tinsley, who represented the Malory

1607
01:48:52,360 --> 01:48:58,640
Speaker 1: Beach family, Eric Bland representing the Centerfield family, Deputy Danny Gregory,

1608
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:03,439
Speaker 1: who guarded the courtroom and escorted the defendant to his

1609
01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:07,720
Speaker 1: new home behind bars. But right now I want to

1610
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:13,599
Speaker 1: go out to doctor Michelle Dupree, who heard every single

1611
01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:18,840
Speaker 1: word of this testimony and saw a fellow medical examiner

1612
01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:21,960
Speaker 1: really take it on the chin. I'm talking about doctor Rhemer,

1613
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:28,200
Speaker 1: who performed the autopsy on Maggie and Paul. Did you

1614
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:32,320
Speaker 1: ever have any doubt that there would be a guilty verdict.

1615
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:37,200
Speaker 1: Doctor I did have some doubt, Nancy. You know, the

1616
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:40,760
Speaker 1: state put on a very good case, obviously, and I'm

1617
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:43,599
Speaker 1: so delighted. But the defense did as well. And as

1618
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, it only takes one jar to have that

1619
01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:49,880
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Doctor Rumor did an excellent job, and I

1620
01:49:49,880 --> 01:49:52,560
Speaker 1: am so proud of her that she stood up for

1621
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:55,720
Speaker 1: what she said. She said, you know, I'm the one

1622
01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:58,160
Speaker 1: that did the autopsy. This is what I saw and

1623
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 1: this is why it is what it is. And I

1624
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:03,880
Speaker 1: think that was amazing. She did a great job, she

1625
01:50:03,960 --> 01:50:08,360
Speaker 1: really did, and she underwent a pretty tough cross examination,

1626
01:50:09,040 --> 01:50:12,360
Speaker 1: you know. To Chris mcdunna, now start off the interview

1627
01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 1: room on YouTube, but veteran homicide investigator who has handled

1628
01:50:18,240 --> 01:50:25,360
Speaker 1: well over three hundred homicides, Chris mcduonna, it's part of

1629
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:30,200
Speaker 1: the job. You go to medical school or to academy

1630
01:50:30,360 --> 01:50:33,720
Speaker 1: the way you did, and you get out ready to

1631
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:37,559
Speaker 1: do your job. You have no idea that you are

1632
01:50:37,680 --> 01:50:41,960
Speaker 1: fresh meat in the courtroom for somebody to cross examine.

1633
01:50:42,280 --> 01:50:48,000
Speaker 1: There's probably really hard to number the cross examinations you

1634
01:50:48,040 --> 01:50:52,760
Speaker 1: have endured in court, Chris. You don't Natali your one

1635
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:57,000
Speaker 1: hundred percent rate, because you don't know what direction of

1636
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:00,880
Speaker 1: any court trial is going to go. And when you're

1637
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 1: sitting on that stand, it's extremely frustrating because you know,

1638
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:11,240
Speaker 1: the defense gets to ask you anything in a variety

1639
01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:14,960
Speaker 1: of different directions. And of course, as we've seen here

1640
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:19,080
Speaker 1: in this particular case, you know, being in law enforcement,

1641
01:51:19,120 --> 01:51:22,920
Speaker 1: well you're the bad guy versus the defendant sitting there

1642
01:51:22,920 --> 01:51:26,400
Speaker 1: at the table, and you know that that can take

1643
01:51:26,439 --> 01:51:29,720
Speaker 1: a toll on you if you're not prepared for it.

1644
01:51:29,800 --> 01:51:34,479
Speaker 1: So when you do, you know, sit down with inside

1645
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:38,120
Speaker 1: of yourself and say, Okay, this is my job, this

1646
01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:42,000
Speaker 1: is all business, it's not personal, then you can get

1647
01:51:42,080 --> 01:51:44,639
Speaker 1: past it, you know. I just want to make one

1648
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:49,120
Speaker 1: comment about Mark Kiel. I've known Mark for quite some time.

1649
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:53,920
Speaker 1: He's an extremely professional individual. He was the president of

1650
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:58,120
Speaker 1: the State Association of Criminal Investigators for quite some time,

1651
01:51:58,479 --> 01:52:01,960
Speaker 1: and he made one comment during that press conference that

1652
01:52:02,160 --> 01:52:04,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if people caught it or not, but

1653
01:52:05,160 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 1: he basically said, anybody aiding and abetting Murdoch Alec Murdoch,

1654
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:16,240
Speaker 1: and he presented it in such a way of I'm

1655
01:52:16,280 --> 01:52:19,479
Speaker 1: gonna shay here, Nancy. There's a lot more to come.

1656
01:52:20,120 --> 01:52:23,719
Speaker 1: They're not done. Sled is not done. Now I caught

1657
01:52:23,800 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 1: that sled is not done. Um you know, to you

1658
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:31,759
Speaker 1: you just got Morgan not only professor forensics, an author,

1659
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:37,280
Speaker 1: but death investigator. How many times have you undergone intense

1660
01:52:37,400 --> 01:52:40,479
Speaker 1: questioning after you've done what you thought was your very

1661
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:46,839
Speaker 1: best job? Countless countless and it never you know to comment?

1662
01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:49,600
Speaker 1: You know, you can't take it personal. When you're a

1663
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:53,559
Speaker 1: young investigator, you do and you think that you're being impugned,

1664
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:58,719
Speaker 1: but you have to understand. Defense is attempting to raise

1665
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:02,360
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt and they'll use any means at their disposal.

1666
01:53:02,479 --> 01:53:06,320
Speaker 1: That's their job, that's what they're there to do. But

1667
01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:11,000
Speaker 1: it goes back to you be very exacting in what

1668
01:53:11,160 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 1: you do and be able to hold forth on the

1669
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:20,200
Speaker 1: job that you've done. That's why you always strive for

1670
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:23,559
Speaker 1: excellence because listen, there's always going they're always going to

1671
01:53:23,640 --> 01:53:28,040
Speaker 1: find a problem with what you've done. It's really easy

1672
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:32,240
Speaker 1: to Monday morning quarterback in these picnic cases. Guys. A

1673
01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:36,519
Speaker 1: name that has been woven through the fabric of this

1674
01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:43,160
Speaker 1: trial is teen girl Mallory Beach, just stunning, beautiful on

1675
01:53:43,200 --> 01:53:47,760
Speaker 1: the outside, beautiful on the inside. A teen girl with

1676
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 1: her life ahead of her until the night she went

1677
01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:53,639
Speaker 1: on a boat ride with a group of friends with

1678
01:53:53,720 --> 01:54:01,519
Speaker 1: Paul Murdog at the wheel, drunk, completely drunk according to

1679
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:05,080
Speaker 1: his what alcohol at the time, or so we have

1680
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:09,479
Speaker 1: been led to believe in the last hours, her father,

1681
01:54:09,960 --> 01:54:14,880
Speaker 1: Malory Beach's father, has spoken out following this verdicts. Listen,

1682
01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:21,639
Speaker 1: he's flat see justice so long the last four years,

1683
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:31,679
Speaker 1: and so it's an outcome that we were I told

1684
01:54:31,680 --> 01:54:49,360
Speaker 1: you right now, prayers and supports, just asking the teams

1685
01:54:49,600 --> 01:54:57,280
Speaker 1: shooting more victims here waiting, Aggie, Paul families guy here

1686
01:54:57,360 --> 01:55:00,600
Speaker 1: you hear he, Malory Beach's father speak out. Across this

1687
01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:04,120
Speaker 1: county and really across the country. All eyes have been

1688
01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:11,080
Speaker 1: on this courtroom, wondering if justice would prevail. We would

1689
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:14,640
Speaker 1: hear every day whenever you turned on the TV or

1690
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:18,960
Speaker 1: the radio, assaults on the state, on sled South Carolina

1691
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:23,120
Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Division, on the process, on the prosecutors and

1692
01:55:23,240 --> 01:55:26,040
Speaker 1: the works every day, with a horrible job they were

1693
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:28,160
Speaker 1: all doing, how they messed up the case, how there's

1694
01:55:28,240 --> 01:55:32,840
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt it wasn't there. None of that was there,

1695
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:37,320
Speaker 1: And it all seemed to lift like a dark cloud

1696
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:40,880
Speaker 1: over this courthouse behind me. Last night when that verdict

1697
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:49,640
Speaker 1: was read out loud in court Judge Newman sentencing Alex

1698
01:55:49,760 --> 01:55:52,960
Speaker 1: Murdock to not one but two consecutive That means so

1699
01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:57,600
Speaker 1: one after the next life sentences and the murders of

1700
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:16,720
Speaker 1: Paul and Mackie. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace with me.

1701
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:23,840
Speaker 1: Kelly Skiing is back in the chair. Fox Nation Senior producer, Kelly,

1702
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:26,800
Speaker 1: thank you again for joining me here outside the courthouse.

1703
01:56:27,640 --> 01:56:31,880
Speaker 1: I wonder what the delay is with the defense. They

1704
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:35,040
Speaker 1: have been fancy the defense threatening to give a press

1705
01:56:35,080 --> 01:56:38,320
Speaker 1: conference for two hours. What the defense just passed me.

1706
01:56:38,520 --> 01:56:41,920
Speaker 1: They are walking towards the microphones right now, so it

1707
01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:44,600
Speaker 1: looks like we will be hearing from them momentarily. I

1708
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:49,400
Speaker 1: see Dick Harputlie, Jim Griffin and a few others on

1709
01:56:49,600 --> 01:56:53,360
Speaker 1: their team. There's Philip Barber. They are walking towards the microphone,

1710
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:56,520
Speaker 1: so we should hear from them any moment. They've probably

1711
01:56:56,600 --> 01:56:59,520
Speaker 1: been huddling furiously all morning trying to figure out what

1712
01:56:59,560 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 1: the hey they're going to say. They may have stopped

1713
01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:07,400
Speaker 1: off at the jail once Murdo got there, reassuring him

1714
01:57:07,480 --> 01:57:10,320
Speaker 1: that they're going to appeal. They're going to seek justice

1715
01:57:11,080 --> 01:57:14,480
Speaker 1: going over the points of appeal, and they better be ready.

1716
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:17,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure they are that when you sit in jail

1717
01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:19,400
Speaker 1: for a couple of months he started thinking of things

1718
01:57:19,480 --> 01:57:22,280
Speaker 1: to appeal and how you were done wrong. I'm sure

1719
01:57:22,400 --> 01:57:27,040
Speaker 1: they're going to claim ineffective assistance of counsel. When Griffin

1720
01:57:27,560 --> 01:57:30,760
Speaker 1: opened the door and allowed the state to bring in

1721
01:57:30,920 --> 01:57:33,760
Speaker 1: financial crimes, that was a real turning point in the trial.

1722
01:57:34,040 --> 01:57:37,400
Speaker 1: Up until that moment, the judge had disallowed all of

1723
01:57:37,440 --> 01:57:40,960
Speaker 1: that evidence the way he disallowed Alex Murdog's affair. But

1724
01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:43,200
Speaker 1: it all came in. I'm sure Murdoch is going to

1725
01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:47,080
Speaker 1: use that to his advantage on appeal. I hear kel

1726
01:57:47,400 --> 01:57:51,680
Speaker 1: that the attorneys are walking to the microphone courthouse right

1727
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:55,600
Speaker 1: behind us, and there's a huge crowd gathered, some of

1728
01:57:55,720 --> 01:58:00,120
Speaker 1: them Murdog sympathizers. And here they go. Let's hear what

1729
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:02,960
Speaker 1: they've got to say. I'm Dick Carpillian, this is Jim Griffin,

1730
01:58:03,280 --> 01:58:10,240
Speaker 1: that's Emmie Dale, that's Maggie Fox, that's Hollie Miller, and

1731
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:14,680
Speaker 1: this is Phil Barber. We are Alec Murdaw's defense team. UM,

1732
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:18,880
Speaker 1: we're able to answer your questions. We're not going to

1733
01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:20,880
Speaker 1: make a statement. I know we all don't want one.

1734
01:58:21,480 --> 01:58:30,600
Speaker 1: So um, anybody got a question, do you mean mistake? No? Next?

1735
01:58:32,600 --> 01:58:42,760
Speaker 1: Why didn't I? Well, for two reasons. One she admitted, well,

1736
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:48,120
Speaker 1: she admitted she talked to um other people about the case,

1737
01:58:48,240 --> 01:58:53,440
Speaker 1: but not specifically. But technically I think the judge had

1738
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:57,000
Speaker 1: lee way to excuse her. But she clearly and after

1739
01:58:57,080 --> 01:58:59,360
Speaker 1: we interviewed her back in chambers, in my mind, had

1740
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,040
Speaker 1: not made up her mind, and I thought that was important.

1741
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:07,120
Speaker 1: I don't know she didn't express an opinion to us.

1742
01:59:07,720 --> 01:59:10,280
Speaker 1: She said she was open, she had made up her mind.

1743
01:59:15,440 --> 01:59:29,560
Speaker 1: Great deal point about fication as that, but I think

1744
01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:31,840
Speaker 1: there were significant issues. But I won't be addressing that

1745
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:33,720
Speaker 1: in the Senate unless it comes up in a bill.

1746
01:59:34,120 --> 01:59:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm not going to mix this role my role as

1747
01:59:37,080 --> 01:59:43,920
Speaker 1: a senator. I would not do that. And what do

1748
01:59:44,000 --> 01:59:52,240
Speaker 1: you mean about comment? Wasn't it? Well? Some question? What

1749
01:59:52,440 --> 01:59:55,960
Speaker 1: was the question? Again? I'm sorry? Well, you know, I'm

1750
01:59:56,000 --> 01:59:58,560
Speaker 1: somebody that's prosecuted and defended a bunch of death quality

1751
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:01,400
Speaker 1: cases and clear and do you never do it in

1752
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:06,400
Speaker 1: a circumstantial case all because you're not ninety nine times

1753
02:00:06,400 --> 02:00:08,080
Speaker 1: I have a one hundred of jury's not going to

1754
02:00:08,160 --> 02:00:10,480
Speaker 1: send somebody to death without I saw him do it,

1755
02:00:10,720 --> 02:00:15,760
Speaker 1: he confessed, or you know, great forensic evidence. At the minimum,

1756
02:00:15,880 --> 02:00:18,920
Speaker 1: they had none of that here. Secondly, it would be

1757
02:00:18,960 --> 02:00:22,560
Speaker 1: in a death penalty case. It gives us the ability

1758
02:00:22,640 --> 02:00:25,320
Speaker 1: to individually wade dear jurors, which would have been very

1759
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:29,880
Speaker 1: helpful here, and the prosecution obviously didn't want that. So

1760
02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:32,560
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with I mean, if I'd been prosecuting

1761
02:00:32,640 --> 02:00:35,840
Speaker 1: this case, I probably wouldn't have brought it. But based

1762
02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:38,040
Speaker 1: on you know, what we heard was presented to the

1763
02:00:38,120 --> 02:00:43,280
Speaker 1: Carlton County grand jury by Detective Owen that Jim crossed,

1764
02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:47,760
Speaker 1: blood spattered, that didn't exist, testimony about guns that was wrong.

1765
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean, we can go through balidany with you. Going

1766
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:53,040
Speaker 1: back to his question, I think a SWED needs to

1767
02:00:53,760 --> 02:00:57,000
Speaker 1: do some self examination on the forensic processing they did not.

1768
02:00:57,560 --> 02:00:59,800
Speaker 1: One of the things we complained about was the Maggie's

1769
02:00:59,800 --> 02:01:02,600
Speaker 1: phone would have had all her GPS date on it

1770
02:01:02,880 --> 02:01:07,760
Speaker 1: if they processed it within five days um and they

1771
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:11,040
Speaker 1: because they didn't the GPS date that got overridden. I mean,

1772
02:01:11,080 --> 02:01:12,920
Speaker 1: it was just one which would have been helpful to

1773
02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:18,480
Speaker 1: alec It's fingerprints footprints and all kinds of forensics things

1774
02:01:18,520 --> 02:01:21,960
Speaker 1: that weren't done. Um, so what was the saying the

1775
02:01:22,200 --> 02:01:33,640
Speaker 1: question about the judges. He's entitled to his opinion. Ten days,

1776
02:01:33,680 --> 02:01:38,160
Speaker 1: we'll be following an appeal ground. What did you say?

1777
02:01:38,360 --> 02:01:41,800
Speaker 1: What do you believe it's wrong? It round? But yeah,

1778
02:01:41,960 --> 02:01:45,760
Speaker 1: it was did admission of all the financial crime evidence. Uh,

1779
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:48,600
Speaker 1: and that was offered up. You know, I was having

1780
02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:53,440
Speaker 1: us some motives that because he was confronted about one

1781
02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:58,640
Speaker 1: financial transaction involving attorney's fees by the chief accountant of

1782
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:03,000
Speaker 1: the law firm that was being offered his motive for

1783
02:02:03,080 --> 02:02:05,520
Speaker 1: why he would go home and kill his wife and son,

1784
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:10,800
Speaker 1: which we thought was illogical and ludicrous, and there really

1785
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:13,920
Speaker 1: was no evidence linking one to the other, and we

1786
02:02:14,040 --> 02:02:17,760
Speaker 1: did not think it should come in. Not only did

1787
02:02:17,840 --> 02:02:21,880
Speaker 1: that come in, but every other financial misdeed that they

1788
02:02:21,920 --> 02:02:24,680
Speaker 1: could bring in over the last ten or fifteen years

1789
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:28,760
Speaker 1: was allowed in. And we think that we strongly objected.

1790
02:02:29,440 --> 02:02:32,840
Speaker 1: We respect the judge's decision, but we believe that that

1791
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:37,400
Speaker 1: was erroneous decision and we believe that the judge was

1792
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:41,320
Speaker 1: somewhat misled because at the conclusion of the case, when

1793
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:45,720
Speaker 1: mister matters is up on his rebuttal argument in front

1794
02:02:45,720 --> 02:02:49,440
Speaker 1: of the jury, he says to the jury, I'll forget

1795
02:02:49,640 --> 02:02:52,280
Speaker 1: about all that motive evidence. We don't have to prove motive.

1796
02:02:52,360 --> 02:02:55,360
Speaker 1: We just have to prove malice, which is right. But

1797
02:02:55,760 --> 02:02:57,600
Speaker 1: why did they go to all the effort to prove

1798
02:02:57,720 --> 02:03:01,000
Speaker 1: motive when at the end they a you don't have

1799
02:03:01,120 --> 02:03:04,240
Speaker 1: to believe us on our motive theory. But by then

1800
02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:07,760
Speaker 1: they had cast Alec as a despicable human being, and

1801
02:03:07,960 --> 02:03:10,640
Speaker 1: that was the reason they offered it in the first place.

1802
02:03:10,680 --> 02:03:12,800
Speaker 1: And we think the Peller course will take a strong

1803
02:03:12,920 --> 02:03:16,120
Speaker 1: look at that. We feel like that is a very

1804
02:03:16,200 --> 02:03:19,600
Speaker 1: solid ground for an appeal, and we're going to pursue

1805
02:03:19,640 --> 02:03:27,320
Speaker 1: that trial. Would you guys do anything different? No, No,

1806
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:30,880
Speaker 1: I mean, look once the judge. First of all, we

1807
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:32,760
Speaker 1: believe if the judge is going to let that stuff in,

1808
02:03:32,800 --> 02:03:34,840
Speaker 1: it should have been limited to the ferrest case, which

1809
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:37,320
Speaker 1: is what they were asking him about on Monday. On

1810
02:03:37,360 --> 02:03:41,400
Speaker 1: the feed number two, Tensley, the person has made the

1811
02:03:41,640 --> 02:03:44,080
Speaker 1: motion that compelled to be heard. On Thursday, DAWs Cook

1812
02:03:44,200 --> 02:03:47,200
Speaker 1: alex As a lawyer both agreed it wasn't going to

1813
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:49,560
Speaker 1: be any storm or armageddon or anything that was going

1814
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:51,920
Speaker 1: to happen that Thursday, the judge might have issued an

1815
02:03:51,960 --> 02:03:55,000
Speaker 1: order which once down the line, might have posed a problem.

1816
02:03:55,400 --> 02:04:00,800
Speaker 1: So once they got that character in its information, if

1817
02:04:00,840 --> 02:04:05,560
Speaker 1: he's a thief, he's a liar, then um, he hit dictated.

1818
02:04:05,640 --> 02:04:08,360
Speaker 1: This jury had to think he was a despicable human

1819
02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:12,200
Speaker 1: being and not to be believed. So it was about character,

1820
02:04:12,320 --> 02:04:16,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't about motives. So um, as a result, our

1821
02:04:16,600 --> 02:04:20,440
Speaker 1: options were limited. Should he take the stand? Well, you

1822
02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:22,880
Speaker 1: know we debated that he always wanted to take the stand,

1823
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:26,640
Speaker 1: but once that information was in, I mean if he

1824
02:04:27,480 --> 02:04:31,680
Speaker 1: had to take the stand to explain the kennel video,

1825
02:04:32,040 --> 02:04:34,600
Speaker 1: the lie, if you will, Um, he had, but he

1826
02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:38,080
Speaker 1: had no credible His credibility had been stripped away by um,

1827
02:04:38,440 --> 02:04:52,560
Speaker 1: by the financial pugs. Yes, Um, if we could have

1828
02:04:52,640 --> 02:04:57,080
Speaker 1: had mother Teresa up there speaking on behalf of aleg

1829
02:04:57,120 --> 02:05:00,960
Speaker 1: ad sentencing, I mean he was getting a double life sentence.

1830
02:05:01,320 --> 02:05:04,240
Speaker 1: That that was that was expected. I mean, this was

1831
02:05:04,320 --> 02:05:09,440
Speaker 1: Judge Newman. He has a he's a very stringent uh

1832
02:05:09,880 --> 02:05:13,680
Speaker 1: punisher when it comes to crumps and sentences. I mean

1833
02:05:13,920 --> 02:05:17,040
Speaker 1: that that was never in dispute and so for Buster

1834
02:05:17,160 --> 02:05:19,760
Speaker 1: to get up and speak on his dad's behalf with

1835
02:05:19,960 --> 02:05:22,760
Speaker 1: automated difference. And why do you want to why do

1836
02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:25,360
Speaker 1: you want to put that kid through more trauma than

1837
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:28,440
Speaker 1: anybody that we you know, you can imagine, has ever

1838
02:05:28,520 --> 02:05:34,960
Speaker 1: been through problem. Was that feeling back a dacking? You know.

1839
02:05:35,120 --> 02:05:38,480
Speaker 1: I can't speak to Buster's feelings. I can tell you this.

1840
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:41,200
Speaker 1: There was a lot of effort by the state to

1841
02:05:41,360 --> 02:05:46,360
Speaker 1: convince the family that Alec is the murderer. The family

1842
02:05:46,480 --> 02:05:50,600
Speaker 1: came to trial every day for six weeks expecting to

1843
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:55,280
Speaker 1: hear prove positive that he killed Maggie and Paul, something

1844
02:05:55,320 --> 02:05:58,880
Speaker 1: that they had not heard before. After six weeks of trial,

1845
02:05:59,240 --> 02:06:02,680
Speaker 1: they came away more convinced that he did not do this,

1846
02:06:03,120 --> 02:06:07,720
Speaker 1: and they stadfastly in his camp and support him. And

1847
02:06:07,880 --> 02:06:14,080
Speaker 1: that's that's that's where they stand. Well, Alex will be

1848
02:06:14,240 --> 02:06:17,680
Speaker 1: leaving shortly to go to Columbia to R and E

1849
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:20,880
Speaker 1: is Calm, where he'll be at the South Carolina Department

1850
02:06:20,920 --> 02:06:23,840
Speaker 1: of Corrections. He'll he'll be evaluated, that's about a thirty

1851
02:06:23,920 --> 02:06:28,040
Speaker 1: day process, and then he'll be sent to um wherever

1852
02:06:28,120 --> 02:06:34,360
Speaker 1: the correctional facility that that they assigned him to him. No,

1853
02:06:34,600 --> 02:06:38,840
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think you know Alec was not

1854
02:06:39,960 --> 02:06:46,000
Speaker 1: optimistic that with all of them scrutiny and press and

1855
02:06:46,160 --> 02:06:47,720
Speaker 1: and all of his bad acts being out in the

1856
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:52,280
Speaker 1: public and the world you know, media domain, that he

1857
02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:55,840
Speaker 1: could get, you know, a jury to put out all

1858
02:06:55,880 --> 02:07:00,440
Speaker 1: the noise and and just focus on the murder. And

1859
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:04,240
Speaker 1: so coming in he was somewhat pessimistic. He became optimistic

1860
02:07:04,280 --> 02:07:07,280
Speaker 1: as we got through the process. But but I gotta

1861
02:07:07,320 --> 02:07:09,880
Speaker 1: tell you, in all your reporters, you know, you know

1862
02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:12,480
Speaker 1: the whole story, I'm sure, and if you're sitting on

1863
02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:16,120
Speaker 1: that jury, they heard everything that would be in an

1864
02:07:16,280 --> 02:07:21,440
Speaker 1: HBO documentary, a Netflix documentary about the Murdoch family dynasty downfall,

1865
02:07:21,920 --> 02:07:26,360
Speaker 1: except the Susan no Stephen Smith matter. I mean, so

1866
02:07:26,920 --> 02:07:28,960
Speaker 1: we were hoping to get a jury to put all

1867
02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:31,920
Speaker 1: you know that that could ignore the noise, focus on

1868
02:07:32,000 --> 02:07:34,920
Speaker 1: the murder, and went up trying a case that that

1869
02:07:35,080 --> 02:07:46,720
Speaker 1: they could have watched on Netflix. Oh absolutely not, I

1870
02:07:46,800 --> 02:07:51,840
Speaker 1: mean not outmatched. I mean, look, they won this case

1871
02:07:52,000 --> 02:07:55,640
Speaker 1: the day the judge bought into letting them put every

1872
02:07:55,760 --> 02:08:00,240
Speaker 1: piece of you know, sealing from kids who wants their mother,

1873
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:03,960
Speaker 1: from somebody with pancrantic cancer, somebody that's a paraplegic I

1874
02:08:04,040 --> 02:08:06,000
Speaker 1: mean all of that two and a half weeks. By

1875
02:08:06,040 --> 02:08:08,440
Speaker 1: the time they got done with it, it didn't matter

1876
02:08:08,480 --> 02:08:11,440
Speaker 1: about final argument, it didn't matter about what we put up.

1877
02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:16,800
Speaker 1: He was They would never ever ever acquit him after that, Well,

1878
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:23,560
Speaker 1: ask questions. We'll follow something, not in ten days, but

1879
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:26,040
Speaker 1: we'll follow a notice intention to appeal. Then we've got

1880
02:08:26,320 --> 02:08:28,600
Speaker 1: thirty days I think to follow the brief. Yeah, so

1881
02:08:29,000 --> 02:08:31,200
Speaker 1: you file the notice within ten days. You got to

1882
02:08:31,240 --> 02:08:33,720
Speaker 1: get a transcript. Oh, that'll take a month. That'll take

1883
02:08:33,840 --> 02:08:36,960
Speaker 1: muss before they type up everything. And then and then

1884
02:08:37,000 --> 02:08:44,000
Speaker 1: we start briefing. Yes, and argument and the US. The

1885
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:48,400
Speaker 1: US are more necessary. That's correct, Doyle. Oh, there's a

1886
02:08:48,480 --> 02:08:51,480
Speaker 1: huge federal issue. That's why I got so animated, and

1887
02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:53,960
Speaker 1: Judge told me to sit down. And part of the

1888
02:08:54,080 --> 02:08:59,160
Speaker 1: trial is to state listening and listening, we're asking questions

1889
02:08:59,200 --> 02:09:02,200
Speaker 1: of Alec about why he did not come forward until

1890
02:09:03,120 --> 02:09:06,840
Speaker 1: law enforce, but where he was that you know, at

1891
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:09,000
Speaker 1: the time of the Kiel video, and that was after

1892
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:12,760
Speaker 1: he was arrested. And there's US print. Court cases are

1893
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:16,520
Speaker 1: clear that post arrest silence cannot be used against you,

1894
02:09:16,720 --> 02:09:19,560
Speaker 1: and that, I mean that is a classic Black violation

1895
02:09:19,680 --> 02:09:22,800
Speaker 1: of the Fifth Amendment, and we feel strongly that if

1896
02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:25,360
Speaker 1: we lose at the state courts, we'll have success of

1897
02:09:25,400 --> 02:09:30,920
Speaker 1: the federal court. No. No, there were no plea negotiations.

1898
02:09:30,960 --> 02:09:38,160
Speaker 1: Weren't any. They never offered him anything whatever for real

1899
02:09:38,280 --> 02:09:42,640
Speaker 1: killer or whatever. Not our job to find the real killer.

1900
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:46,920
Speaker 1: If they had taken fingerprints, if they gotten footprints, if

1901
02:09:46,960 --> 02:09:50,120
Speaker 1: they hadn't destroyed, if they preserved Maggie's phone with her

1902
02:09:50,200 --> 02:09:55,880
Speaker 1: gps um, if they had not, I mean they misrepresented

1903
02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:57,600
Speaker 1: to the grand jury that they had a shirt with

1904
02:09:57,720 --> 02:10:02,120
Speaker 1: his blood on it when they if they if you know,

1905
02:10:02,200 --> 02:10:04,520
Speaker 1: if Owen had opened his email he says he didn't

1906
02:10:04,560 --> 02:10:07,320
Speaker 1: get would have told him a year before that was

1907
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:09,600
Speaker 1: there was no human blood on that T shirt. I mean,

1908
02:10:09,640 --> 02:10:12,480
Speaker 1: it was a comedy of errors in terms of forensics

1909
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:14,840
Speaker 1: on this. So do I have faith that they would

1910
02:10:14,840 --> 02:10:22,160
Speaker 1: find the real killer? No? I don't think. We don't

1911
02:10:22,200 --> 02:10:27,120
Speaker 1: know what last question? Last question, say that one more time.

1912
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:35,120
Speaker 1: There was no choice because he had been made out

1913
02:10:35,280 --> 02:10:39,920
Speaker 1: to be a monster who stole from children and crippled people,

1914
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:43,320
Speaker 1: and his crippled nothing. That son of a little scrip word.

1915
02:10:45,440 --> 02:10:48,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm an old guy. Crippled people. Um, it

1916
02:10:49,080 --> 02:10:52,560
Speaker 1: was just done horrible, despicable things. Um. And he had

1917
02:10:52,640 --> 02:10:55,920
Speaker 1: to try to push back on that. And I mean

1918
02:10:56,000 --> 02:10:58,880
Speaker 1: if he'd left that way without taking the stand, he

1919
02:10:59,080 --> 02:11:03,960
Speaker 1: was toast taking the stand. You know he could he

1920
02:11:04,080 --> 02:11:10,560
Speaker 1: pull it off, apparently, didn't you not asking Christian not really,

1921
02:11:10,640 --> 02:11:12,800
Speaker 1: because we checked. I mean we did focus groups in

1922
02:11:12,840 --> 02:11:14,760
Speaker 1: this case in a county way far away from here.

1923
02:11:15,560 --> 02:11:17,720
Speaker 1: Eight of the ten people on the two focused groups

1924
02:11:17,880 --> 02:11:19,920
Speaker 1: knew all about this case. I mean there was there

1925
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:22,680
Speaker 1: was no where you could go that you could find.

1926
02:11:23,160 --> 02:11:25,920
Speaker 1: We believe you could find a jury that knew, that

1927
02:11:26,120 --> 02:11:30,280
Speaker 1: didn't know, hadn't watched TV, hadn't read the stuff you

1928
02:11:30,360 --> 02:11:34,920
Speaker 1: write or the stuff the twitt the Twitter stuff. Um.

1929
02:11:35,160 --> 02:11:38,240
Speaker 1: And by the way, one of the good, good piece

1930
02:11:38,280 --> 02:11:41,080
Speaker 1: of information I was this trial was over. Griffin can

1931
02:11:41,120 --> 02:11:48,520
Speaker 1: start tweeting again. Thank you, guys, And there you have it,

1932
02:11:49,400 --> 02:11:54,800
Speaker 1: as tone deaf as ever. Joining me right now, a

1933
02:11:54,920 --> 02:11:58,120
Speaker 1: very special guest. You saw him in the courtroom, a

1934
02:11:58,280 --> 02:12:01,880
Speaker 1: man who has been in the South Carolina Attorney General's

1935
02:12:01,960 --> 02:12:05,440
Speaker 1: office as the elected top cop of the state for

1936
02:12:05,600 --> 02:12:11,880
Speaker 1: twelve years. With me, Attorney General Alan Wilson, Attorney General,

1937
02:12:12,000 --> 02:12:13,960
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Does it never in

1938
02:12:14,280 --> 02:12:18,200
Speaker 1: with the mantra. It's their fault. It's their fault. It's

1939
02:12:18,280 --> 02:12:22,480
Speaker 1: their fault. He murdered his wife and son. It's his fault.

1940
02:12:22,680 --> 02:12:24,840
Speaker 1: That's what we've been hearing for six weeks. Look at everything,

1941
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:27,080
Speaker 1: look at everyone else, just don't look at Alec Murdoch.

1942
02:12:27,360 --> 02:12:29,560
Speaker 1: That's what That's what we've been hearing all along again.

1943
02:12:29,720 --> 02:12:32,880
Speaker 1: We've gotten thousands of pieces of evidence, dozens and hunt,

1944
02:12:32,920 --> 02:12:35,880
Speaker 1: dozens of witnesses, we've interviewed. He's been caught in lie

1945
02:12:35,960 --> 02:12:37,920
Speaker 1: after lie after line. I'm not talking about the lies

1946
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:40,040
Speaker 1: he's been telling for years. I'm talking about the lies

1947
02:12:40,080 --> 02:12:42,640
Speaker 1: he's been telling from the stand. Last week, you know,

1948
02:12:42,960 --> 02:12:45,800
Speaker 1: Attorney General Alan Wilson did something I don't believe I

1949
02:12:45,880 --> 02:12:49,480
Speaker 1: have ever seen an elected a g do in this country,

1950
02:12:49,600 --> 02:12:52,640
Speaker 1: and I've dealt with a lot of them. He came

1951
02:12:52,680 --> 02:12:57,400
Speaker 1: into that courtroom and he said to lead Counsel Creighton Waters, hey,

1952
02:12:57,760 --> 02:13:00,720
Speaker 1: I'll work for you. I'll do what you need done.

1953
02:13:01,400 --> 02:13:04,120
Speaker 1: You know, you very rarely see someone with a big

1954
02:13:04,240 --> 02:13:08,000
Speaker 1: title roll up their sleeves and go to work for

1955
02:13:08,200 --> 02:13:13,320
Speaker 1: somebody else. Guys with me right now is the Attorney

1956
02:13:13,360 --> 02:13:17,200
Speaker 1: General Alan Wilson? What led you to come out of

1957
02:13:17,280 --> 02:13:20,480
Speaker 1: your office and get back in the courtroom. You are

1958
02:13:20,560 --> 02:13:23,200
Speaker 1: a veteran trial whawyer yourself, but you don't trial out

1959
02:13:23,200 --> 02:13:25,920
Speaker 1: of cases as the attorney general. No, it's hard to

1960
02:13:25,920 --> 02:13:27,760
Speaker 1: find an attorney general who will actually try a case

1961
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:29,920
Speaker 1: because you, as the attorney general, you have a huge

1962
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:32,720
Speaker 1: bureaucracy to run. I have three hundred employees, have eight

1963
02:13:32,800 --> 02:13:35,000
Speaker 1: thousand other cases that we have to manage. We have

1964
02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:36,760
Speaker 1: to deal with the General Assembly, in the general public

1965
02:13:36,800 --> 02:13:39,240
Speaker 1: at large. And so when this case was obviously getting

1966
02:13:39,240 --> 02:13:41,840
Speaker 1: on the national notoriety, I told creating us in Creton,

1967
02:13:41,880 --> 02:13:44,800
Speaker 1: I'm assigning you as a lead prosecutor, but I'm going

1968
02:13:44,840 --> 02:13:46,640
Speaker 1: to be involved in the case from the side. I'm

1969
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:49,680
Speaker 1: gonna let you run it. You're in charge, but I'm

1970
02:13:49,720 --> 02:13:51,600
Speaker 1: there to help and support you. That the level of

1971
02:13:51,680 --> 02:13:54,200
Speaker 1: notoriety and at level of scrutiny that our office was

1972
02:13:54,280 --> 02:13:56,800
Speaker 1: gonna get, I felt I needed to be there also, Nancy,

1973
02:13:57,000 --> 02:13:59,040
Speaker 1: you saw us at the hotel when you were coming

1974
02:13:59,040 --> 02:14:01,080
Speaker 1: and going. I mean we were living a very spartan

1975
02:14:01,160 --> 02:14:04,040
Speaker 1: existence for the last six weeks. It was fifteen sixteen

1976
02:14:04,080 --> 02:14:06,560
Speaker 1: hour days, a little sleep, getting here early in the morning,

1977
02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:09,000
Speaker 1: NonStop I wanted my people to know that we were

1978
02:14:09,040 --> 02:14:10,720
Speaker 1: going I was going to be in the trenches with them.

1979
02:14:11,080 --> 02:14:13,640
Speaker 1: And then late last week Creyton was getting ready for

1980
02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:15,680
Speaker 1: his closing argument when I said, what can I do

1981
02:14:15,760 --> 02:14:18,080
Speaker 1: to help? And he said, you want to take a witness,

1982
02:14:18,120 --> 02:14:20,320
Speaker 1: And so I decided to take the last closing witness

1983
02:14:20,600 --> 02:14:22,760
Speaker 1: to kind of destroy the ridiculous theory that the defense

1984
02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:25,480
Speaker 1: put up regarding the two shooters. So it was my

1985
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:27,600
Speaker 1: honor to be able to participate in the trial and

1986
02:14:28,280 --> 02:14:31,240
Speaker 1: to help and support our team. You know another thing,

1987
02:14:31,480 --> 02:14:34,160
Speaker 1: Attorney General, is I think a lot of ages across

1988
02:14:34,200 --> 02:14:36,400
Speaker 1: the country don't ever get back in the quarter because

1989
02:14:36,400 --> 02:14:38,720
Speaker 1: they're afraid they'll lose and they don't want to look

1990
02:14:38,800 --> 02:14:42,560
Speaker 1: bad politically. But when you're a trial lawyer and you're

1991
02:14:42,640 --> 02:14:46,160
Speaker 1: dedicated to justice, that's part of it. You have to

1992
02:14:46,240 --> 02:14:49,440
Speaker 1: go in there, win or lose, and do the right

1993
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:52,960
Speaker 1: thing to the best of your ability, regardless of the outcome.

1994
02:14:53,200 --> 02:14:56,960
Speaker 1: And that is what you and Waters did right in there.

1995
02:14:57,440 --> 02:15:00,000
Speaker 1: And I know you had to watch the news coverage

1996
02:15:00,040 --> 02:15:04,440
Speaker 1: at night, one magpie after the next talking about they

1997
02:15:04,520 --> 02:15:07,400
Speaker 1: did this wrong, they did that wrong. Sled is terrible.

1998
02:15:07,480 --> 02:15:10,200
Speaker 1: The State's gonna lose. There's reasonable doubt. Did that ever

1999
02:15:10,320 --> 02:15:12,560
Speaker 1: get to you? You know, Honestly, during the course of

2000
02:15:12,600 --> 02:15:15,400
Speaker 1: the trial, we were so engaged, we were so involved

2001
02:15:15,440 --> 02:15:17,040
Speaker 1: that I never really I kind of drowned it out.

2002
02:15:17,040 --> 02:15:18,160
Speaker 1: It's like when you're in the middle of the game,

2003
02:15:18,440 --> 02:15:20,360
Speaker 1: you're not listening to the audience, you're not listening to

2004
02:15:20,360 --> 02:15:22,720
Speaker 1: the naysayers, You're just in the You're in the zone.

2005
02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:24,200
Speaker 1: And I felt like I was in the zone with

2006
02:15:24,240 --> 02:15:26,800
Speaker 1: our prosecution team. I could see that in the courtroom.

2007
02:15:26,960 --> 02:15:30,640
Speaker 1: And all this time, you've been away from your family

2008
02:15:31,400 --> 02:15:35,200
Speaker 1: and away from your wife, away from your whole family.

2009
02:15:35,440 --> 02:15:39,360
Speaker 1: How did they handle you being gone? You know, I

2010
02:15:39,400 --> 02:15:41,600
Speaker 1: really wouldn't give a shout to my wife, Jennifer, who

2011
02:15:41,760 --> 02:15:45,480
Speaker 1: really appreciated what was going on here and the need

2012
02:15:45,560 --> 02:15:47,960
Speaker 1: for me to be down here in Walterboro, South Carolina,

2013
02:15:48,120 --> 02:15:50,080
Speaker 1: to be able to support our team in the trenches,

2014
02:15:50,160 --> 02:15:53,320
Speaker 1: to be suffering with them. Their families were not seeing them,

2015
02:15:53,680 --> 02:15:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, so my family understood that. And I also

2016
02:15:56,160 --> 02:15:57,600
Speaker 1: want to say one thing, Nancy, I want to give

2017
02:15:57,600 --> 02:15:59,720
Speaker 1: a shout out to the city of Walterboro, in this county,

2018
02:15:59,760 --> 02:16:03,680
Speaker 1: the the launch Little Cotton County Chef's apartment, all the agencies,

2019
02:16:03,720 --> 02:16:05,840
Speaker 1: all the people. We walk in the restaurants, people would

2020
02:16:05,840 --> 02:16:07,640
Speaker 1: come up and shake our hands and thank us. I

2021
02:16:07,720 --> 02:16:09,920
Speaker 1: want to say thank you for the hospitality we received

2022
02:16:09,920 --> 02:16:12,200
Speaker 1: at our hotel. I mean, everyone's just been so kind.

2023
02:16:12,280 --> 02:16:15,440
Speaker 1: It's been a wonderful experience in this community. Well, I

2024
02:16:15,480 --> 02:16:17,880
Speaker 1: gotta tell you something, ag I had the same experience.

2025
02:16:18,280 --> 02:16:21,600
Speaker 1: It's beautiful here and the people are so friendly. It

2026
02:16:21,720 --> 02:16:25,120
Speaker 1: reminds me so much of my home in Macon, Georgia.

2027
02:16:26,600 --> 02:16:29,760
Speaker 1: Everyone very welcoming, no matter whether you are at a

2028
02:16:29,840 --> 02:16:34,440
Speaker 1: food truck or the hotel or the McDonald's. Everyone the same.

2029
02:16:34,560 --> 02:16:38,800
Speaker 1: And I noticed also when you guys finally managed to

2030
02:16:38,920 --> 02:16:43,440
Speaker 1: convince that jury of Alex Murdoch's guilt, nobody could believe it.

2031
02:16:44,040 --> 02:16:46,240
Speaker 1: I compared in a few moments too, when the Wicked

2032
02:16:46,320 --> 02:16:50,880
Speaker 1: Witch was killed in Wizard of Oz, how everybody crept

2033
02:16:50,920 --> 02:16:54,000
Speaker 1: out from hiding it went is the Wicked Witch dead?

2034
02:16:54,040 --> 02:16:57,560
Speaker 1: Did this really happen? Because so many people ag were saying,

2035
02:16:57,840 --> 02:16:59,960
Speaker 1: I believe he did this thing, but he's in Murdoch.

2036
02:17:00,000 --> 02:17:03,600
Speaker 1: He'll never be convicted. Nancy, you nailed it right on

2037
02:17:03,640 --> 02:17:06,280
Speaker 1: the head the way back early on back during the

2038
02:17:06,320 --> 02:17:09,360
Speaker 1: Boat case when our office is prosecuting in the boat case,

2039
02:17:09,640 --> 02:17:11,960
Speaker 1: people thought that the Murdoch's were going to be above

2040
02:17:12,040 --> 02:17:13,959
Speaker 1: the law and they would get away with this. That's

2041
02:17:14,000 --> 02:17:15,720
Speaker 1: what I heard, and what we wanted to send a

2042
02:17:15,800 --> 02:17:18,000
Speaker 1: message here in South Carolina, at least through our office,

2043
02:17:18,120 --> 02:17:19,720
Speaker 1: is that no one is above the law, no one,

2044
02:17:19,800 --> 02:17:22,800
Speaker 1: no matter what your station is in society, no one,

2045
02:17:22,920 --> 02:17:25,160
Speaker 1: everyone should be treated equally and fairly under the law,

2046
02:17:25,400 --> 02:17:28,600
Speaker 1: and that we just pursued justice. We weren't prosecuting a person.

2047
02:17:28,720 --> 02:17:32,120
Speaker 1: We were prosecuting conduct, and that conduct was that Alec

2048
02:17:32,200 --> 02:17:35,600
Speaker 1: Murdoch on June seven, twenty twenty one, violently and brutally

2049
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:38,760
Speaker 1: mowed down his wife and son in cold blooded murder,

2050
02:17:38,879 --> 02:17:40,800
Speaker 1: and we held him accountable. And I hope that the

2051
02:17:40,840 --> 02:17:43,960
Speaker 1: people out there who questioned the criminal justice system understand

2052
02:17:44,320 --> 02:17:46,240
Speaker 1: that everyone is going to be treated the same under

2053
02:17:46,240 --> 02:17:47,840
Speaker 1: the court of law, and no one is above the law.

2054
02:17:48,000 --> 02:17:52,280
Speaker 1: Where do you believe Alex Murdoa will ultimately be has well.

2055
02:17:52,800 --> 02:17:55,279
Speaker 1: He's being taken to Columbia right now for in processing

2056
02:17:55,360 --> 02:17:57,480
Speaker 1: that takes thirty to forty five days, and then they'll

2057
02:17:57,520 --> 02:18:01,160
Speaker 1: assess at that time what correctional facility he should be

2058
02:18:01,280 --> 02:18:03,520
Speaker 1: going to. We won't know that for some time, because

2059
02:18:03,600 --> 02:18:07,840
Speaker 1: that takes several weeks. Attorney General Alan Wilson joining us.

2060
02:18:07,920 --> 02:18:11,400
Speaker 1: I certainly hope he's not headed to a facility like

2061
02:18:11,680 --> 02:18:17,279
Speaker 1: a club fed where he does yoga and culinary classes

2062
02:18:17,959 --> 02:18:26,080
Speaker 1: and gets a PhD in basket weaving. What are the

2063
02:18:26,200 --> 02:18:29,440
Speaker 1: choices in South Carolina when you've been convicted of double murder?

2064
02:18:29,560 --> 02:18:32,440
Speaker 1: Where do you go? Well, obviously maximum security prison is

2065
02:18:32,800 --> 02:18:34,600
Speaker 1: on the table, but again that is something that will

2066
02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:37,640
Speaker 1: be determined, you know, through this m pricing process. So

2067
02:18:37,920 --> 02:18:39,640
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how that works. I know it

2068
02:18:39,720 --> 02:18:43,039
Speaker 1: takes about thirty to forty five days, Nancy, if I may,

2069
02:18:43,959 --> 02:18:45,200
Speaker 1: I do want to say this because one thing I

2070
02:18:45,240 --> 02:18:48,680
Speaker 1: appreciate appreciate about you when you talk about these cases,

2071
02:18:48,720 --> 02:18:50,959
Speaker 1: you don't just talk about the law. You talk about

2072
02:18:51,000 --> 02:18:54,600
Speaker 1: the humanity of the people behind the case. And this

2073
02:18:54,800 --> 02:18:57,560
Speaker 1: case has been nationalized. People are talking about it across

2074
02:18:57,600 --> 02:19:00,320
Speaker 1: the pond, over in Europe, everywhere around the country. And

2075
02:19:00,600 --> 02:19:02,040
Speaker 1: what I want to remind people of is and this

2076
02:19:02,120 --> 02:19:04,200
Speaker 1: is gonna be a Hollywood movie. This would be multiple

2077
02:19:04,280 --> 02:19:07,400
Speaker 1: movies and shows. You get away from the notoriety, you

2078
02:19:07,440 --> 02:19:10,560
Speaker 1: get away from the scandal, and the selaciousness. You look.

2079
02:19:10,720 --> 02:19:14,720
Speaker 1: Two people were brutally murdered and then a family was destroyed,

2080
02:19:14,800 --> 02:19:18,080
Speaker 1: a community was torn asunder. I mean people, really, I

2081
02:19:18,120 --> 02:19:21,039
Speaker 1: mean lives were affected. This trial has become a caricature

2082
02:19:21,160 --> 02:19:23,600
Speaker 1: of itself, and I want to remind people that when

2083
02:19:23,600 --> 02:19:26,760
Speaker 1: you go home today, hug your family. Hug your family

2084
02:19:26,760 --> 02:19:30,360
Speaker 1: and appreciate them, because lives were destroyed. You know, A G.

2085
02:19:30,560 --> 02:19:36,880
Speaker 1: Wilson truer words were never spoken. And I saw you

2086
02:19:37,560 --> 02:19:42,120
Speaker 1: last night face timing with your wife, who has been

2087
02:19:42,200 --> 02:19:47,520
Speaker 1: through her own brave battle, and I agree with you.

2088
02:19:47,680 --> 02:19:50,680
Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how fast I'm going to burn

2089
02:19:50,840 --> 02:19:53,840
Speaker 1: rubber to get home to my children after this. And

2090
02:19:53,959 --> 02:19:57,440
Speaker 1: You're right, it's not about this ruling and that ruling

2091
02:19:57,480 --> 02:20:00,879
Speaker 1: and an appeal. It's about Paul and Ma Maggie, who

2092
02:20:01,040 --> 02:20:04,359
Speaker 1: in that one moment, in the space of a minute,

2093
02:20:05,320 --> 02:20:09,520
Speaker 1: came to a horrible, bloody end. Maggie trying I believe,

2094
02:20:09,879 --> 02:20:11,920
Speaker 1: to save Paul and find out what was happening to

2095
02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:15,440
Speaker 1: her son when she was cut down as well. I mean,

2096
02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:18,360
Speaker 1: do you ever sit back and just let yourself think

2097
02:20:18,400 --> 02:20:22,120
Speaker 1: about what they endured that night and listen. I got

2098
02:20:22,200 --> 02:20:25,320
Speaker 1: to see photos that the public hasn't seen, and they

2099
02:20:25,400 --> 02:20:27,160
Speaker 1: haunt me. I mean, it is one of the most

2100
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:30,840
Speaker 1: gruesome death scenes I've ever seen, and it was just horrible, Nancy.

2101
02:20:30,879 --> 02:20:33,520
Speaker 1: It was horrible what they must have been thinking about

2102
02:20:33,560 --> 02:20:36,720
Speaker 1: in their final moments, final seconds of their life. But again,

2103
02:20:37,200 --> 02:20:39,920
Speaker 1: I can't thank our team in the Attorney General's Office

2104
02:20:39,920 --> 02:20:43,000
Speaker 1: and our law enforcement partners for this herculean effort. It

2105
02:20:43,080 --> 02:20:45,240
Speaker 1: felt almost like, in a legal sense, we were storming

2106
02:20:45,240 --> 02:20:48,720
Speaker 1: the beaches of Normandy. This was a very very hard

2107
02:20:48,920 --> 02:20:52,039
Speaker 1: case to prosecute logistically, and I can't thank them enough.

2108
02:20:52,320 --> 02:20:55,000
Speaker 1: And I want to say one last thing. People keep

2109
02:20:55,040 --> 02:20:57,320
Speaker 1: asking me, at least over the last year, what would

2110
02:20:57,400 --> 02:21:01,360
Speaker 1: drive a man to brutally murder his wife and his son?

2111
02:21:01,840 --> 02:21:04,120
Speaker 1: And what I tell people is in my mind, in

2112
02:21:04,200 --> 02:21:07,120
Speaker 1: my opinion, I believe that Alec, in his own warped way,

2113
02:21:07,480 --> 02:21:11,879
Speaker 1: loved his family, but he loved himself more and murdering

2114
02:21:11,959 --> 02:21:14,280
Speaker 1: them was the price he was willing to pay to

2115
02:21:14,400 --> 02:21:17,040
Speaker 1: preserve his way of life. And that is what I

2116
02:21:17,120 --> 02:21:19,080
Speaker 1: kind of boil it down to you. Okay, ag I

2117
02:21:19,160 --> 02:21:21,920
Speaker 1: know you're headed onto your next big thing, but I've

2118
02:21:21,959 --> 02:21:24,520
Speaker 1: got to ask you a question. I think you would

2119
02:21:24,520 --> 02:21:28,200
Speaker 1: agree with me trial strategy wise that you never perform

2120
02:21:28,560 --> 02:21:32,280
Speaker 1: an experiment or a demonstration in court without practicing it first.

2121
02:21:32,400 --> 02:21:36,280
Speaker 1: Would you agree to that ag Yes, ma'am. I feel

2122
02:21:36,280 --> 02:21:39,880
Speaker 1: like I'm being cross examined right now. And then what

2123
02:21:40,120 --> 02:21:44,040
Speaker 1: may I ask possessed you to perform that experiment with

2124
02:21:44,240 --> 02:21:48,520
Speaker 1: doctor Kenzie, which I might add I believe was one

2125
02:21:48,640 --> 02:21:50,960
Speaker 1: of the turning points of this trial. That was an

2126
02:21:51,000 --> 02:21:54,200
Speaker 1: incredible thing. So when we saw the defense expert put

2127
02:21:54,280 --> 02:21:57,320
Speaker 1: forward their ridiculous theory about how the shooter would have

2128
02:21:57,360 --> 02:21:59,520
Speaker 1: had to shoot Paul in that small closet light feed

2129
02:21:59,600 --> 02:22:02,160
Speaker 1: room in the walk around him to blow the shooting

2130
02:22:02,280 --> 02:22:04,680
Speaker 1: from behind, I was talking to Kenny and I said,

2131
02:22:04,760 --> 02:22:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, this doesn't make sense to me. We went

2132
02:22:07,120 --> 02:22:10,800
Speaker 1: downstairs and kind of tried to recreate this downstairs in

2133
02:22:10,879 --> 02:22:14,400
Speaker 1: a closet like room, and it didn't work, and I said, Kenny,

2134
02:22:14,440 --> 02:22:17,440
Speaker 1: we need to demonstrate this for the jury. And so

2135
02:22:17,520 --> 02:22:19,280
Speaker 1: we went back upstairs and we looked at that door,

2136
02:22:19,320 --> 02:22:21,760
Speaker 1: which was actually a little bit bigger than the feed

2137
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:24,360
Speaker 1: room door. It was a couple inches wider, and I said, Kenny,

2138
02:22:24,360 --> 02:22:26,040
Speaker 1: we're going to demonstrate this in front of the jury.

2139
02:22:26,360 --> 02:22:30,200
Speaker 1: And as we were demonstrating how cumbersome and how difficult

2140
02:22:30,240 --> 02:22:34,520
Speaker 1: and how implausible the defense's theory was. It just made sense,

2141
02:22:34,560 --> 02:22:36,280
Speaker 1: and so we just both agreed to do it. By

2142
02:22:36,360 --> 02:22:37,880
Speaker 1: the way, a lot of people think I pointed the

2143
02:22:37,920 --> 02:22:40,760
Speaker 1: gun at his head, I did not. I actually pointed

2144
02:22:40,800 --> 02:22:42,280
Speaker 1: it to the side. I wanted to make sure people

2145
02:22:42,320 --> 02:22:47,000
Speaker 1: knew that. And A. G. Wilson. You just heard the

2146
02:22:47,120 --> 02:22:52,560
Speaker 1: defense pressor. Hart Pootlian is not one with which you trifle.

2147
02:22:53,040 --> 02:22:55,879
Speaker 1: He's a veteran trial lawyer. He's won a lot of cases,

2148
02:22:56,240 --> 02:23:00,120
Speaker 1: and he is in the state legislature. I mean, he's

2149
02:23:00,160 --> 02:23:03,119
Speaker 1: got a lot of political clout. What did you make

2150
02:23:03,200 --> 02:23:05,640
Speaker 1: of what they had to say? They were very dismissive

2151
02:23:05,640 --> 02:23:08,119
Speaker 1: of this case. Look, the defense has got to say

2152
02:23:08,160 --> 02:23:09,400
Speaker 1: what they've got to say. They've got to do what

2153
02:23:09,440 --> 02:23:11,000
Speaker 1: they've got to do. I don't want to comment on

2154
02:23:11,040 --> 02:23:12,640
Speaker 1: what they say other than to say it's the same

2155
02:23:12,680 --> 02:23:15,480
Speaker 1: thing that was said in trial. It's everyone else's fault.

2156
02:23:15,680 --> 02:23:17,200
Speaker 1: But Alec I can tell you right now, I heard

2157
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:19,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of what one of the jurors said

2158
02:23:19,959 --> 02:23:23,200
Speaker 1: that what really killed this for them was the Kennel

2159
02:23:23,280 --> 02:23:26,080
Speaker 1: video and Alex's taking the stand and his lies, that

2160
02:23:26,480 --> 02:23:28,160
Speaker 1: it did not make sense to the jury that they

2161
02:23:28,200 --> 02:23:33,040
Speaker 1: were actually basically caught. That that really captured their imagination

2162
02:23:33,200 --> 02:23:35,240
Speaker 1: that this guy is a liar. It wasn't all the

2163
02:23:35,320 --> 02:23:38,160
Speaker 1: financial stuff that helped frame for them. I'm sure that

2164
02:23:38,800 --> 02:23:40,640
Speaker 1: he was coming everything was coming to a head that

2165
02:23:40,760 --> 02:23:43,080
Speaker 1: day on June seventh, but it was actually him taking

2166
02:23:43,120 --> 02:23:45,480
Speaker 1: to stand and him being confronted with his own lie

2167
02:23:45,520 --> 02:23:47,880
Speaker 1: in the Kennel video that really I think one the day,

2168
02:23:47,959 --> 02:23:53,240
Speaker 1: Attorney General Wilson, I just want to congratulate you on

2169
02:23:53,360 --> 02:23:58,880
Speaker 1: a very hard fought trial, one and we're all so

2170
02:23:59,040 --> 02:24:02,039
Speaker 1: impressed to see in ag come out of his office

2171
02:24:03,000 --> 02:24:06,760
Speaker 1: and get in the courtroom and in the ring, win

2172
02:24:06,920 --> 02:24:10,520
Speaker 1: or lose, and give it your all. Thank you for

2173
02:24:10,640 --> 02:24:12,760
Speaker 1: being with us today. Thank you, Nancy, so great to

2174
02:24:12,800 --> 02:24:15,760
Speaker 1: be with you. Likewise, guys, you were just hearing the

2175
02:24:15,800 --> 02:24:22,320
Speaker 1: elected Attorney General Alan Wilson. And to me, what makes

2176
02:24:22,360 --> 02:24:25,840
Speaker 1: it even more poignant is his wife has been finding

2177
02:24:25,879 --> 02:24:31,160
Speaker 1: a very brave battle against breast cancer and he is

2178
02:24:31,240 --> 02:24:35,600
Speaker 1: in constant touch with her, and together they made a

2179
02:24:35,680 --> 02:24:39,520
Speaker 1: decision for him to come to this courtroom and seek justice.

2180
02:24:41,080 --> 02:24:46,520
Speaker 1: Not just him, but everyone involved gave up so much

2181
02:24:46,600 --> 02:24:51,320
Speaker 1: and sacrifice so much to reach a verdict that speaks

2182
02:24:51,560 --> 02:24:55,160
Speaker 1: of the truth. Now, the defense has just taken the podium,

2183
02:24:55,280 --> 02:24:59,480
Speaker 1: and I want you to hear what lead attorney Dick

2184
02:24:59,600 --> 02:25:04,960
Speaker 1: Hart Potelian have to say in our cut twenty. Take

2185
02:25:05,000 --> 02:25:07,720
Speaker 1: a listen to what just occurred. You know, I'm somebody

2186
02:25:07,800 --> 02:25:10,360
Speaker 1: that's prosecuted and defended a bunch of death palty cases,

2187
02:25:10,760 --> 02:25:14,039
Speaker 1: and clearly and you never do it in a circumstantial case,

2188
02:25:15,040 --> 02:25:18,400
Speaker 1: all because you're not nine times I have one hundred

2189
02:25:18,400 --> 02:25:20,840
Speaker 1: of jury's not going to send somebody to death without

2190
02:25:21,120 --> 02:25:23,680
Speaker 1: I saw him do it, he confessed, or you know,

2191
02:25:25,360 --> 02:25:27,920
Speaker 1: great forensic evidence at the minimum, they had none of

2192
02:25:27,959 --> 02:25:31,400
Speaker 1: that here. Secondly, it would in a death penalty case.

2193
02:25:32,160 --> 02:25:35,800
Speaker 1: It gives us the ability to individually wad deer jurors,

2194
02:25:35,959 --> 02:25:39,680
Speaker 1: which would have been very helpful here, and the prosecution

2195
02:25:39,760 --> 02:25:42,680
Speaker 1: obviously didn't want that. So I don't disagree with I mean,

2196
02:25:42,959 --> 02:25:45,640
Speaker 1: if I had been prosecuting this case, I probably wouldn't

2197
02:25:45,640 --> 02:25:47,760
Speaker 1: have brought it. If I had been prosecuting this case,

2198
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:51,560
Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't have brought it, says Dick Hart Putleian,

2199
02:25:51,840 --> 02:25:55,360
Speaker 1: the lead defense attorney, flanked by the other members of

2200
02:25:55,440 --> 02:25:59,320
Speaker 1: the defense team. Guys, the entire defense team just came

2201
02:25:59,440 --> 02:26:03,760
Speaker 1: out and gave their view on the guilty verdict and

2202
02:26:03,920 --> 02:26:06,840
Speaker 1: the sentence. Now you heard Hart Potley in state that

2203
02:26:07,560 --> 02:26:10,080
Speaker 1: he would never have brought the case had he been

2204
02:26:10,840 --> 02:26:16,240
Speaker 1: in the charging decision. They also promise to lodge an appeal.

2205
02:26:16,520 --> 02:26:20,600
Speaker 1: But what about finding the real killer? Take a listen

2206
02:26:20,640 --> 02:26:23,480
Speaker 1: to our cut twenty two. Not our job to find

2207
02:26:23,520 --> 02:26:27,119
Speaker 1: the real killer. If they had taken fingerprints, if they'd

2208
02:26:27,360 --> 02:26:31,120
Speaker 1: gotten footprints, if they hadn't destroyed, if they preserved Maggie's

2209
02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:36,160
Speaker 1: phone with her GPS, if they had not, I mean

2210
02:26:36,280 --> 02:26:38,720
Speaker 1: they misrepresented to the grand jury that they had a

2211
02:26:38,760 --> 02:26:41,240
Speaker 1: shirt with his blood on it when they and if

2212
02:26:41,280 --> 02:26:45,200
Speaker 1: they if you know, if Owen had opened his email

2213
02:26:45,360 --> 02:26:47,200
Speaker 1: he says he didn't get would have told him a

2214
02:26:47,320 --> 02:26:50,040
Speaker 1: year before that there was no human blood on that

2215
02:26:50,160 --> 02:26:52,959
Speaker 1: T shirt. I mean, it was a comedy of errors

2216
02:26:53,000 --> 02:26:55,560
Speaker 1: in terms of forensics on this. So do I have

2217
02:26:55,680 --> 02:26:58,080
Speaker 1: faith that they would find the real killer? No, We're

2218
02:26:58,080 --> 02:27:00,040
Speaker 1: about to be joined by a man we've all I

2219
02:27:00,160 --> 02:27:05,080
Speaker 1: wanted to speak to Creton Waters, who led the prosecution

2220
02:27:05,320 --> 02:27:08,400
Speaker 1: against Alex Murdock through thick and thin. This is a

2221
02:27:08,480 --> 02:27:13,520
Speaker 1: man who I earlier called pale and got but I

2222
02:27:13,680 --> 02:27:16,400
Speaker 1: heard from a super secret courthouse source that he actually

2223
02:27:16,520 --> 02:27:20,960
Speaker 1: did lose fifteen pounds while he was preparing and trying

2224
02:27:21,000 --> 02:27:23,360
Speaker 1: this case. Del Carson hold on just a moment. I

2225
02:27:23,480 --> 02:27:25,960
Speaker 1: hear I've got Creton the Waters to lead attorney in

2226
02:27:26,000 --> 02:27:28,960
Speaker 1: this case. Mister Waters, are you there, I'm here. How

2227
02:27:29,040 --> 02:27:31,200
Speaker 1: are you? I'm great and I hope you are too.

2228
02:27:32,440 --> 02:27:37,080
Speaker 1: Creton Waters, congratulations on a very hard fought trial and

2229
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:40,240
Speaker 1: a victory for the victims in this case. Could you

2230
02:27:40,360 --> 02:27:44,640
Speaker 1: tell me the single most difficult moment of this trial

2231
02:27:45,040 --> 02:27:47,840
Speaker 1: for you? Well, I think the most difficult moment was

2232
02:27:48,240 --> 02:27:52,920
Speaker 1: actually when you get up and rise to go and

2233
02:27:53,000 --> 02:27:56,160
Speaker 1: cross examine the defendant. Obviously, that was a moment that

2234
02:27:56,360 --> 02:27:58,240
Speaker 1: I thought was going to happen, and I was waiting

2235
02:27:58,280 --> 02:27:59,959
Speaker 1: for that to happen and anxious for it to happen.

2236
02:28:00,760 --> 02:28:03,880
Speaker 1: But as you know, when you do this job, you know,

2237
02:28:03,959 --> 02:28:05,560
Speaker 1: you get up there and you realize this is it.

2238
02:28:05,680 --> 02:28:07,640
Speaker 1: It's crunch time and you have to get it done,

2239
02:28:08,280 --> 02:28:12,440
Speaker 1: and that probably was difficult. But I think it's kind

2240
02:28:12,480 --> 02:28:15,040
Speaker 1: of like what you hear players say about the Super Bowl.

2241
02:28:15,560 --> 02:28:19,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's there's a lot of pressure and attention

2242
02:28:19,600 --> 02:28:21,640
Speaker 1: on it. But once you run your first place, just

2243
02:28:21,720 --> 02:28:24,879
Speaker 1: another football game and then get down to business with me, guys.

2244
02:28:25,080 --> 02:28:28,400
Speaker 1: The lead attorney for the state in the prosecution of

2245
02:28:28,480 --> 02:28:33,520
Speaker 1: a legal air, Alex Murdog Craging Waters again, thank you

2246
02:28:33,600 --> 02:28:36,160
Speaker 1: for being with us. I will never forget the moment

2247
02:28:36,480 --> 02:28:41,760
Speaker 1: just before you started closing statements, you got up, you

2248
02:28:41,879 --> 02:28:44,360
Speaker 1: walked out of the room, out of the courtroom. I thought,

2249
02:28:44,440 --> 02:28:47,520
Speaker 1: where is he going now it's time for closing arguments,

2250
02:28:48,000 --> 02:28:50,480
Speaker 1: And then you were gone maybe two or three minutes.

2251
02:28:51,160 --> 02:28:53,960
Speaker 1: You walked right back in and you seemed like a

2252
02:28:54,080 --> 02:28:57,879
Speaker 1: man on a mission with just one thing on your mind,

2253
02:28:57,959 --> 02:29:01,160
Speaker 1: and that was closing statements. And you want right past

2254
02:29:01,440 --> 02:29:04,600
Speaker 1: all the spectators, right down the middle aisle. You didn't

2255
02:29:04,640 --> 02:29:07,800
Speaker 1: give one glance over to the defense. You went straight

2256
02:29:07,879 --> 02:29:12,520
Speaker 1: for the jury. And I knew game on what was

2257
02:29:12,680 --> 02:29:16,400
Speaker 1: going through your mind when you were giving that closing statement. Well,

2258
02:29:16,560 --> 02:29:21,200
Speaker 1: it was it was focus, and it was how to

2259
02:29:21,400 --> 02:29:23,800
Speaker 1: take six weeks of testimony and distill it down for

2260
02:29:23,959 --> 02:29:26,680
Speaker 1: this jury. But it's also that chance, you know, you

2261
02:29:26,800 --> 02:29:29,240
Speaker 1: make eye contact with the jury, You get to kind

2262
02:29:29,280 --> 02:29:32,280
Speaker 1: of interact with them when you're examining witnesses, But that's

2263
02:29:32,360 --> 02:29:35,360
Speaker 1: not like the chance to give that closing argument, to

2264
02:29:35,480 --> 02:29:38,360
Speaker 1: really talk to them, to look them in the eye,

2265
02:29:38,400 --> 02:29:42,400
Speaker 1: to gauge their reactions, to interact with them, to explain

2266
02:29:42,520 --> 02:29:45,720
Speaker 1: the evidence from your perspective, to try to answer those questions.

2267
02:29:45,800 --> 02:29:48,640
Speaker 1: But it also was to go through just an incredibly

2268
02:29:48,720 --> 02:29:53,000
Speaker 1: complex situation. It was a moment that that I relished,

2269
02:29:53,120 --> 02:29:58,000
Speaker 1: and it was one that I felt like, it's go time,

2270
02:29:58,160 --> 02:30:00,480
Speaker 1: and that's what That's what I did. Great. Were you

2271
02:30:00,600 --> 02:30:03,880
Speaker 1: surprised when Alex Murdock decided to take the stand? Not

2272
02:30:04,000 --> 02:30:08,320
Speaker 1: at all. I think that we often thought that this

2273
02:30:08,400 --> 02:30:11,440
Speaker 1: would be the case. This is a man we kind

2274
02:30:11,480 --> 02:30:13,880
Speaker 1: of know the personality profile. You know, I've done a

2275
02:30:13,959 --> 02:30:19,040
Speaker 1: lot of corruption and con man type cases, and you know,

2276
02:30:19,160 --> 02:30:21,920
Speaker 1: individuals like that, they've never had to face accountability. They

2277
02:30:22,000 --> 02:30:25,280
Speaker 1: typically come from some sort of privilege. They've always been

2278
02:30:25,280 --> 02:30:27,160
Speaker 1: able to talk to their way out of trouble. They've

2279
02:30:27,160 --> 02:30:29,680
Speaker 1: always been able to own a room and they can't

2280
02:30:29,720 --> 02:30:32,080
Speaker 1: resist it. They're confident in their ability to do that.

2281
02:30:32,240 --> 02:30:34,959
Speaker 1: And what a better example of that could you possibly

2282
02:30:35,000 --> 02:30:38,480
Speaker 1: have than Alec Murdock. And I was always believed that

2283
02:30:38,520 --> 02:30:41,120
Speaker 1: he would never be able to resist the temptation to

2284
02:30:41,440 --> 02:30:43,240
Speaker 1: sit down and try to look that jury in the

2285
02:30:43,280 --> 02:30:46,760
Speaker 1: eye and convince them with one last con But that's

2286
02:30:46,800 --> 02:30:49,160
Speaker 1: why how I went about that cross examination was to

2287
02:30:49,440 --> 02:30:52,320
Speaker 1: let him talk, get him talking, have pauses where he

2288
02:30:52,360 --> 02:30:54,960
Speaker 1: could not help himself, and I knew that in the

2289
02:30:55,160 --> 02:30:58,920
Speaker 1: end he would continue to manufacture things. The jury would

2290
02:30:58,920 --> 02:31:01,720
Speaker 1: see him lie in real time, and that would be compelling.

2291
02:31:01,800 --> 02:31:04,840
Speaker 1: And I think that it was you know, media went

2292
02:31:05,040 --> 02:31:11,920
Speaker 1: crazy and they were, you know, attacking you on many fronts,

2293
02:31:12,120 --> 02:31:16,760
Speaker 1: but one was why is he letting Alex Murdog explained

2294
02:31:16,879 --> 02:31:18,840
Speaker 1: things on the stand, and it was really simple in

2295
02:31:18,959 --> 02:31:21,360
Speaker 1: my mind. You were just giving him some more rope

2296
02:31:21,760 --> 02:31:24,640
Speaker 1: to let him hang himself, to just keep talking, which

2297
02:31:24,720 --> 02:31:28,840
Speaker 1: we knew he would and ultimately make a horrible impression

2298
02:31:28,879 --> 02:31:31,440
Speaker 1: on the jury. That's exactly right. You know, some across

2299
02:31:31,480 --> 02:31:35,440
Speaker 1: examinations you tried to really control the answers, but that

2300
02:31:35,640 --> 02:31:38,280
Speaker 1: was not my strategy. Here went with initially a more

2301
02:31:38,360 --> 02:31:41,840
Speaker 1: constructive cross examination and again, get him talking. I knew

2302
02:31:41,959 --> 02:31:46,080
Speaker 1: this guy was a master liar and he couldn't help himself,

2303
02:31:46,280 --> 02:31:50,720
Speaker 1: and that though this jury would see the truth because

2304
02:31:50,800 --> 02:31:53,680
Speaker 1: they had heard so much about the fact that he

2305
02:31:53,840 --> 02:31:56,400
Speaker 1: was not really who anyone who thought they were close

2306
02:31:56,440 --> 02:32:00,959
Speaker 1: to him was. And ultimately, yeah, set give him open

2307
02:32:01,080 --> 02:32:03,280
Speaker 1: and that's what he did. He hung himself. We've got

2308
02:32:03,280 --> 02:32:04,920
Speaker 1: a lot of questions, and this is a little bit

2309
02:32:04,920 --> 02:32:09,680
Speaker 1: of a tough question, Creighton Waters, why did Maggie's family

2310
02:32:10,440 --> 02:32:14,560
Speaker 1: not appear in the courtroom or give a victim impact statement? Well,

2311
02:32:14,720 --> 02:32:20,960
Speaker 1: I'll say this, this is an extremely complicated situation for

2312
02:32:21,080 --> 02:32:23,680
Speaker 1: this family. And one of the things that we decided

2313
02:32:23,720 --> 02:32:28,920
Speaker 1: to do early on is regardless of a person's uh

2314
02:32:29,400 --> 02:32:32,320
Speaker 1: in this family, regardless of their viewpoint of the prosecution

2315
02:32:32,440 --> 02:32:34,680
Speaker 1: or the case or whatever, we were still going to

2316
02:32:34,760 --> 02:32:37,160
Speaker 1: be extremely respectful. We were going to have our victim's

2317
02:32:37,200 --> 02:32:41,000
Speaker 1: advocate provide them with services, and we regardless of which

2318
02:32:41,040 --> 02:32:44,240
Speaker 1: side they wanted to sit on, and we, uh, you know,

2319
02:32:44,360 --> 02:32:46,840
Speaker 1: we had to recognize that, you know, whatever you want

2320
02:32:46,879 --> 02:32:49,640
Speaker 1: to say about this, this family has suffered, and they've

2321
02:32:49,680 --> 02:32:52,800
Speaker 1: had to suffer, uh, you know in a public way

2322
02:32:52,920 --> 02:32:55,880
Speaker 1: that that just I think, you know, has has added

2323
02:32:55,959 --> 02:32:58,880
Speaker 1: to that. And I think it's very complicated for a

2324
02:32:58,920 --> 02:33:01,000
Speaker 1: lot of people. I think it's very complicated because there

2325
02:33:01,080 --> 02:33:06,520
Speaker 1: still are relationships there and ultimately, you never want to

2326
02:33:07,640 --> 02:33:13,760
Speaker 1: retraumatize any victim. We we know and we believe that

2327
02:33:14,920 --> 02:33:17,680
Speaker 1: that we were able and the jury more importantly, was

2328
02:33:17,720 --> 02:33:21,160
Speaker 1: able to speak for Maggie and Paul. That's what's most

2329
02:33:21,200 --> 02:33:25,560
Speaker 1: important about this case has become obviously because of such

2330
02:33:25,600 --> 02:33:29,000
Speaker 1: a unique situation, has become what it has become. But

2331
02:33:29,240 --> 02:33:31,800
Speaker 1: fundamentally we can't forget that this was about Maggie and Paul.

2332
02:33:32,280 --> 02:33:35,200
Speaker 1: And I know that there are people who are are

2333
02:33:35,720 --> 02:33:39,800
Speaker 1: happy and proud that the jury spoke for them yesterday. Well,

2334
02:33:40,000 --> 02:33:42,400
Speaker 1: part of the rub there, the flying the ointment is

2335
02:33:42,480 --> 02:33:47,080
Speaker 1: that anything that Maggie's family might want to say about

2336
02:33:47,200 --> 02:33:52,880
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog could potentially hurt Buster, who is also their

2337
02:33:52,959 --> 02:33:57,200
Speaker 1: blood relative and they love him. So they were kind

2338
02:33:57,280 --> 02:33:59,000
Speaker 1: of between a rock and a hard spot. B Like

2339
02:33:59,120 --> 02:34:01,240
Speaker 1: I say, I mean, all I will say is is

2340
02:34:01,320 --> 02:34:04,960
Speaker 1: that it's a very complicated situation for all of the

2341
02:34:05,040 --> 02:34:08,200
Speaker 1: members of this family, and as the prosecutors, we wanted

2342
02:34:08,240 --> 02:34:12,000
Speaker 1: to be respectful and sensitive and regardless of how they

2343
02:34:12,040 --> 02:34:14,440
Speaker 1: looked at the case. So Cryton, how did you put

2344
02:34:14,480 --> 02:34:17,560
Speaker 1: your team together? Where did you find them all? Well,

2345
02:34:17,600 --> 02:34:19,600
Speaker 1: that's that's a great and so what I fundamentally do

2346
02:34:19,680 --> 02:34:22,640
Speaker 1: with state grand jury and state grand jury fundamental focuses

2347
02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:28,440
Speaker 1: on complex cases, corruption, white collar, cartail dope, things like that.

2348
02:34:28,720 --> 02:34:31,480
Speaker 1: And this is a team that I've been fortunate to hire,

2349
02:34:31,520 --> 02:34:36,440
Speaker 1: every one of them, and we do these complex investigations

2350
02:34:36,480 --> 02:34:38,879
Speaker 1: all the time. We have state grand jury terms which

2351
02:34:38,879 --> 02:34:41,720
Speaker 1: are actually the way we do it, or kind of

2352
02:34:41,800 --> 02:34:44,680
Speaker 1: many trials three days a month from jurors all over

2353
02:34:44,760 --> 02:34:48,560
Speaker 1: the state, and so we're used to constantly, you know,

2354
02:34:48,680 --> 02:34:52,000
Speaker 1: putting together very complex things. And so everybody brought to

2355
02:34:52,080 --> 02:34:57,360
Speaker 1: the table differing skills. They all have differing areas of expertise,

2356
02:34:57,920 --> 02:35:00,120
Speaker 1: and in this case, which is unlike any other or

2357
02:35:00,200 --> 02:35:02,040
Speaker 1: all of those were relevant. And I couldn't be more

2358
02:35:02,080 --> 02:35:04,440
Speaker 1: proud of this team. It was a team effort. I

2359
02:35:04,560 --> 02:35:06,640
Speaker 1: may be the one sitting here, but every single member

2360
02:35:06,680 --> 02:35:08,800
Speaker 1: of this team deserves just as much credit and was

2361
02:35:08,879 --> 02:35:11,440
Speaker 1: just as important. And frankly, there's no way I could

2362
02:35:11,440 --> 02:35:13,240
Speaker 1: have survived without each and every one of them. So

2363
02:35:13,440 --> 02:35:16,400
Speaker 1: I've never been more proud. And we're also still speaking

2364
02:35:16,440 --> 02:35:18,160
Speaker 1: to one another as far as I know, So that's

2365
02:35:18,200 --> 02:35:20,800
Speaker 1: pretty amazing to end up itself after six weeks of

2366
02:35:21,680 --> 02:35:26,080
Speaker 1: going through this stressful process. Everybody wants to know what

2367
02:35:26,800 --> 02:35:31,000
Speaker 1: Craton Waters is going to do tonight. How do you

2368
02:35:31,640 --> 02:35:35,880
Speaker 1: get past a trial that you have been so involved in, Well,

2369
02:35:35,879 --> 02:35:37,960
Speaker 1: I can tell you that you know, when you're sitting

2370
02:35:38,000 --> 02:35:41,360
Speaker 1: in that chair, you know the pressure of every decision

2371
02:35:41,640 --> 02:35:45,920
Speaker 1: is immense, and so it is a sense of relief.

2372
02:35:45,959 --> 02:35:47,840
Speaker 1: I think I think that, Nancy. I think I'm just

2373
02:35:48,600 --> 02:35:51,840
Speaker 1: kind of numb right now. I think that this was weird.

2374
02:35:51,920 --> 02:35:56,200
Speaker 1: But yesterday I was probably less nervous waiting for that

2375
02:35:56,440 --> 02:35:59,080
Speaker 1: verdict than I've ever been in any others waiting for

2376
02:35:59,160 --> 02:36:01,200
Speaker 1: a jury before. And I think it was just because

2377
02:36:01,640 --> 02:36:04,640
Speaker 1: we had really reached peak exhaustion and laid ourselves out,

2378
02:36:04,920 --> 02:36:07,920
Speaker 1: put everything out there. So and then of course we

2379
02:36:07,959 --> 02:36:10,440
Speaker 1: still had court today, so we really weren't able to

2380
02:36:10,520 --> 02:36:14,360
Speaker 1: celebrate last night. But I think tonight was when we'll

2381
02:36:14,360 --> 02:36:17,480
Speaker 1: have a chance to reflect and enjoy it. And then

2382
02:36:17,800 --> 02:36:19,600
Speaker 1: the AG told me he's gonna give me thirty minutes

2383
02:36:19,600 --> 02:36:22,280
Speaker 1: off on Monday, So that's that's that's good. But now

2384
02:36:22,320 --> 02:36:25,280
Speaker 1: I probably take some time off and see my family again.

2385
02:36:25,360 --> 02:36:30,600
Speaker 1: And and and just here's the thing. You know, we

2386
02:36:30,720 --> 02:36:32,400
Speaker 1: got tons of other bad guys out there, We got

2387
02:36:32,440 --> 02:36:34,720
Speaker 1: tons of other cases, we got present cases, we got

2388
02:36:35,320 --> 02:36:38,720
Speaker 1: cartel cases, we got corruption cases, and those of all

2389
02:36:38,840 --> 02:36:41,720
Speaker 1: kind of been on hold, and so we got to

2390
02:36:41,720 --> 02:36:43,280
Speaker 1: get back to it. And we also have to get

2391
02:36:43,320 --> 02:36:45,880
Speaker 1: back to the white collar offenses. Those are still very

2392
02:36:45,959 --> 02:36:47,800
Speaker 1: important because they go right to the heart of this

2393
02:36:47,920 --> 02:36:52,880
Speaker 1: profession that alec abused and that deserves accountability too, regardless

2394
02:36:52,920 --> 02:36:54,680
Speaker 1: of what happened in this trial, and we plan to

2395
02:36:54,720 --> 02:36:57,879
Speaker 1: seek that great and waters in South Carolina, when somebody

2396
02:36:57,920 --> 02:37:01,920
Speaker 1: gets a life sentence, is that life till the end

2397
02:37:01,959 --> 02:37:04,480
Speaker 1: of their natural life is a life without the possibility

2398
02:37:04,520 --> 02:37:08,920
Speaker 1: of parole. There are two consecutive linlances here. What does

2399
02:37:09,000 --> 02:37:12,240
Speaker 1: that mean in real terms? Yeah, so in South Carolina

2400
02:37:12,320 --> 02:37:16,039
Speaker 1: that's life without parole and so and he's got two

2401
02:37:16,040 --> 02:37:21,240
Speaker 1: consecutive life sentences and so ultimately, you know, what does

2402
02:37:21,280 --> 02:37:23,480
Speaker 1: that mean in practical terms? We'll having those two consecutive

2403
02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:26,440
Speaker 1: life sentences and for some reason one got you know,

2404
02:37:26,520 --> 02:37:28,520
Speaker 1: thrown out on appeal on the other deadn't which is

2405
02:37:28,640 --> 02:37:31,040
Speaker 1: unlikely scenario, but you still have the other one there.

2406
02:37:32,680 --> 02:37:36,760
Speaker 1: But ultimately that's without parole. Now, obviously the legislature at

2407
02:37:36,800 --> 02:37:38,520
Speaker 1: some point could go back and change the law and

2408
02:37:38,600 --> 02:37:42,640
Speaker 1: provide parole eligibility for life sentences. So that's why that

2409
02:37:43,200 --> 02:37:46,279
Speaker 1: consecutive nature is still important. But as the law stands

2410
02:37:46,320 --> 02:37:49,280
Speaker 1: and how it stood, I believe since nineteen ninety six,

2411
02:37:49,720 --> 02:37:52,480
Speaker 1: that's without parole and Eleik is not leaving the South

2412
02:37:52,520 --> 02:37:56,199
Speaker 1: Carolina Department of Corrections until he's leaving in a pine box.

2413
02:37:56,600 --> 02:37:59,680
Speaker 1: Question to you, what do you see as the future

2414
02:37:59,720 --> 02:38:02,920
Speaker 1: for the collar crimes. I think that we planned to

2415
02:38:03,200 --> 02:38:06,720
Speaker 1: aggressively prosecute those. As I just said, they go to

2416
02:38:06,840 --> 02:38:09,560
Speaker 1: the heart of this profession. We've talked about trust a

2417
02:38:09,600 --> 02:38:12,520
Speaker 1: lot with Alec and how he abused that, and you know,

2418
02:38:12,720 --> 02:38:16,520
Speaker 1: it takes the profession of being a lawyer depends on trust,

2419
02:38:16,760 --> 02:38:19,640
Speaker 1: and he violated that to its core. He abused the

2420
02:38:19,720 --> 02:38:23,240
Speaker 1: system to its core. You know, lawyers can be adversarial,

2421
02:38:23,400 --> 02:38:26,920
Speaker 1: but we still depend on being able to trust one another,

2422
02:38:27,040 --> 02:38:28,800
Speaker 1: to look one another in the eye, and to rely

2423
02:38:28,920 --> 02:38:31,800
Speaker 1: on each other's word, even if we're doing the fierceness

2424
02:38:31,800 --> 02:38:34,480
Speaker 1: of battle and that kind of thing, that kind of

2425
02:38:34,520 --> 02:38:36,880
Speaker 1: abuse of those victims in those cases, they deserve a

2426
02:38:36,959 --> 02:38:41,000
Speaker 1: voice too. These were people that had been hurt, perhaps

2427
02:38:41,040 --> 02:38:44,120
Speaker 1: her family members have been killed, They had suffered, and

2428
02:38:44,240 --> 02:38:46,200
Speaker 1: this was compensation that was supposed to be for them,

2429
02:38:46,360 --> 02:38:48,840
Speaker 1: and Alex stole it, and he did it by betraying

2430
02:38:48,879 --> 02:38:51,200
Speaker 1: the trust of not only those victims, but also the

2431
02:38:51,280 --> 02:38:53,959
Speaker 1: system itself. We take that very seriously and there's going

2432
02:38:54,040 --> 02:38:56,080
Speaker 1: to be a reckoning for that as well. Crayton, where

2433
02:38:56,240 --> 02:39:00,040
Speaker 1: did all the money go? Does anybody really believe he

2434
02:39:00,120 --> 02:39:03,600
Speaker 1: spent sixty thousand dollars a week or is that just

2435
02:39:03,760 --> 02:39:06,440
Speaker 1: something he drummed up, cooked up when he was in

2436
02:39:06,560 --> 02:39:12,160
Speaker 1: rehab over in Savannah or in Atlanta. I mean, where

2437
02:39:12,240 --> 02:39:15,760
Speaker 1: did all that money go? Well? I don't think you

2438
02:39:15,879 --> 02:39:17,720
Speaker 1: know that. As I argued to the jury, that the

2439
02:39:17,800 --> 02:39:20,840
Speaker 1: amount of pills that he claimed to be taking as

2440
02:39:20,879 --> 02:39:24,119
Speaker 1: survival by anyone. And that's assuming that you're getting real

2441
02:39:24,200 --> 02:39:27,040
Speaker 1: pills and not counterfeit ones that are laced with finnel.

2442
02:39:27,080 --> 02:39:28,560
Speaker 1: Because if you're doing that, it's only a matter of

2443
02:39:28,640 --> 02:39:30,440
Speaker 1: time before you get a hot one and all the

2444
02:39:30,560 --> 02:39:34,160
Speaker 1: narcanon the county can't save you. But we've found in

2445
02:39:34,240 --> 02:39:36,800
Speaker 1: my experience in white collar cases is that's always the question.

2446
02:39:37,000 --> 02:39:41,040
Speaker 1: So much money gets stolen and everybody assumes, well, it

2447
02:39:41,160 --> 02:39:45,320
Speaker 1: has to be somewhere, But when you are living a

2448
02:39:45,480 --> 02:39:49,119
Speaker 1: life beyond your means and you're spending money like you're

2449
02:39:49,160 --> 02:39:51,960
Speaker 1: spending it. It can go quick, and it can go

2450
02:39:52,160 --> 02:39:55,680
Speaker 1: very quick. And that often is the case. People think

2451
02:39:55,760 --> 02:40:00,120
Speaker 1: that there's a chest head somewhere, and most sensances there's not. Well,

2452
02:40:00,160 --> 02:40:03,000
Speaker 1: when you say spending money like they're spending it on

2453
02:40:03,200 --> 02:40:05,480
Speaker 1: what what were they spending money? I mean, I mean,

2454
02:40:05,520 --> 02:40:09,440
Speaker 1: I know they've got three homes, which is unusual for

2455
02:40:09,600 --> 02:40:12,640
Speaker 1: most of us. I know they would take private planes

2456
02:40:12,760 --> 02:40:16,680
Speaker 1: here and there. I know they had beautiful furnishings and

2457
02:40:16,760 --> 02:40:21,560
Speaker 1: beautiful insides to the homes. But I mean nine million dollars,

2458
02:40:23,080 --> 02:40:27,160
Speaker 1: what were they spending it on. Well, here's the thing.

2459
02:40:27,400 --> 02:40:31,160
Speaker 1: I described it as an incessant roller coaster or a

2460
02:40:31,640 --> 02:40:35,800
Speaker 1: constant hamster wheel. You know, this kind of thing builds

2461
02:40:35,840 --> 02:40:38,640
Speaker 1: and builds, and its started over a decade ago. Clearly

2462
02:40:38,760 --> 02:40:42,640
Speaker 1: this man had agreed. This man also, who wouldn't concede

2463
02:40:42,680 --> 02:40:44,360
Speaker 1: to these jurors that were looking at him that he

2464
02:40:44,400 --> 02:40:46,480
Speaker 1: was even wealthy. That even became a point of contention,

2465
02:40:46,560 --> 02:40:50,280
Speaker 1: which was baffling to me. But that's just who he is.

2466
02:40:51,080 --> 02:40:54,119
Speaker 1: But you get on this roller coaster of constant borrowing,

2467
02:40:55,280 --> 02:40:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, interests, it gets expensive and you're you've been

2468
02:40:59,000 --> 02:41:02,080
Speaker 1: spending like you're never worried about money, and each as

2469
02:41:02,160 --> 02:41:04,640
Speaker 1: each year progresses, when you're in that kind of cycle,

2470
02:41:05,120 --> 02:41:07,000
Speaker 1: so much more and more of that money goes to

2471
02:41:07,120 --> 02:41:09,920
Speaker 1: interest on top of the fact that your lifestyle continues

2472
02:41:09,959 --> 02:41:12,240
Speaker 1: to increase. It's an old adage that the more you spend,

2473
02:41:12,280 --> 02:41:14,000
Speaker 1: the more you make, and then if you're a thief

2474
02:41:14,080 --> 02:41:16,880
Speaker 1: or someone like Alec, it just gets beyond that. So

2475
02:41:17,440 --> 02:41:23,360
Speaker 1: he was, you know, really spending money in a manner

2476
02:41:23,440 --> 02:41:26,400
Speaker 1: that was out of control. But if we certainly had

2477
02:41:26,640 --> 02:41:29,040
Speaker 1: found a chest of money somewhere, obviously we would have

2478
02:41:29,080 --> 02:41:32,280
Speaker 1: bought that into evidence. You know, it's listening to what

2479
02:41:32,360 --> 02:41:36,160
Speaker 1: the defense said and their defense pressor creating waters. Guys

2480
02:41:36,240 --> 02:41:39,800
Speaker 1: with me is the lead counsel in the prosecution against

2481
02:41:39,920 --> 02:41:43,480
Speaker 1: illegal air Alex and murdog who was in court every

2482
02:41:43,600 --> 02:41:47,680
Speaker 1: single date and deeking it out handled handling the huge

2483
02:41:47,800 --> 02:41:52,760
Speaker 1: majority of the case himself. Question, when you heard the

2484
02:41:52,840 --> 02:41:55,680
Speaker 1: defense and their pressor they just gave a few feet

2485
02:41:55,680 --> 02:41:59,800
Speaker 1: away over there at the courthouse, they claimed that you

2486
02:42:00,640 --> 02:42:05,279
Speaker 1: and the state are the ones that destroyed Alex Murdock's

2487
02:42:05,440 --> 02:42:08,600
Speaker 1: a reputation and that you brought in correct me if

2488
02:42:08,600 --> 02:42:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But didn't they bring up a financial misdeed

2489
02:42:13,360 --> 02:42:17,440
Speaker 1: of financial crime. Yeah, well he did. And I didn't

2490
02:42:17,560 --> 02:42:20,920
Speaker 1: destroy Alec Murdock's reputation. He did that on his own.

2491
02:42:21,680 --> 02:42:24,800
Speaker 1: But we obviously litigated very heavily at the beginning of

2492
02:42:24,840 --> 02:42:27,040
Speaker 1: the case and followed a pre trial motion ourselves to

2493
02:42:27,120 --> 02:42:31,360
Speaker 1: state to seek to admit this evidence, which was very important,

2494
02:42:31,720 --> 02:42:34,760
Speaker 1: it was very unimportant. It was very important to understand

2495
02:42:35,280 --> 02:42:38,640
Speaker 1: this unique individual in this unique situation. And there's no

2496
02:42:38,760 --> 02:42:41,960
Speaker 1: way to understand and to explain that most important of

2497
02:42:42,160 --> 02:42:44,720
Speaker 1: questions is that what can possess a man to get

2498
02:42:44,760 --> 02:42:48,200
Speaker 1: to the point where he murders his wife and more

2499
02:42:48,200 --> 02:42:50,960
Speaker 1: importantly murders his son. And there's a lot of factors there,

2500
02:42:51,000 --> 02:42:53,280
Speaker 1: of which the finances are just one, but they were

2501
02:42:53,320 --> 02:42:57,760
Speaker 1: all leading to a gathering storm, as I described it,

2502
02:42:57,840 --> 02:43:00,879
Speaker 1: a perfect storm that was arriving on June the seventh.

2503
02:43:01,040 --> 02:43:03,520
Speaker 1: We litigated this prior to the case. We made the

2504
02:43:03,600 --> 02:43:06,039
Speaker 1: defensive ware and the judge ware that we were intending

2505
02:43:06,040 --> 02:43:08,120
Speaker 1: to rely on it that there was a chain of

2506
02:43:08,200 --> 02:43:11,720
Speaker 1: circumstances that connected together with all of this that led

2507
02:43:11,800 --> 02:43:15,080
Speaker 1: to pressures arriving on that day, and we knew that

2508
02:43:15,160 --> 02:43:18,560
Speaker 1: this was consistent with you know, even though you can't

2509
02:43:18,840 --> 02:43:22,080
Speaker 1: admit this kind of evidence, this idea of the family annihilator,

2510
02:43:22,120 --> 02:43:24,960
Speaker 1: it's actually a very recognized phenomenon where you typically have

2511
02:43:25,640 --> 02:43:30,200
Speaker 1: a white male in his fifties who's had great success

2512
02:43:30,280 --> 02:43:34,280
Speaker 1: and prominence and who's facing break up of the family.

2513
02:43:34,400 --> 02:43:36,840
Speaker 1: We knew his father was dying, and who's facing potential

2514
02:43:36,920 --> 02:43:41,240
Speaker 1: family ruin. He's got the stope addiction and family violence

2515
02:43:41,760 --> 02:43:44,920
Speaker 1: is associated with that. This is a common phenomenon, and

2516
02:43:45,080 --> 02:43:46,720
Speaker 1: so Alec fits all of that to to tea, and

2517
02:43:46,760 --> 02:43:49,600
Speaker 1: maybe even more so because again, this is a man

2518
02:43:50,320 --> 02:43:54,080
Speaker 1: that not a single person who thought they were close

2519
02:43:54,120 --> 02:43:56,879
Speaker 1: to him, not a single person who knew him, actually

2520
02:43:56,959 --> 02:43:59,280
Speaker 1: knew who he was. And as I said in sentencing,

2521
02:43:59,400 --> 02:44:02,120
Speaker 1: let's just chill, it's just very chilling. And it was

2522
02:44:02,240 --> 02:44:05,400
Speaker 1: chilling when he tried to every day stare me down.

2523
02:44:05,480 --> 02:44:08,039
Speaker 1: As he walked out of the courtroom. I could look

2524
02:44:08,080 --> 02:44:10,000
Speaker 1: in his eyes, eyes with the window to the soul,

2525
02:44:10,480 --> 02:44:13,039
Speaker 1: and I can see who this man was, and thankfully

2526
02:44:13,040 --> 02:44:14,800
Speaker 1: the jury did as well. I got to ask you

2527
02:44:14,800 --> 02:44:19,200
Speaker 1: another question while I've got you crating waters. You know,

2528
02:44:19,360 --> 02:44:24,720
Speaker 1: the whole roadside shooting incident, I never bought it was

2529
02:44:24,840 --> 02:44:28,080
Speaker 1: really for life insurance, because you know, when you orchestrate

2530
02:44:28,120 --> 02:44:31,440
Speaker 1: a shooting, you're not going to get the insurance. I

2531
02:44:31,520 --> 02:44:36,840
Speaker 1: always thought it was a way for Alex Murdog to suggest,

2532
02:44:37,200 --> 02:44:41,039
Speaker 1: or to plant in everyone's minds that the real killer

2533
02:44:41,480 --> 02:44:46,840
Speaker 1: was still out there and coming for him. Right, yes, well,

2534
02:44:46,879 --> 02:44:48,760
Speaker 1: and that's it. I mean, you know, this is all

2535
02:44:48,840 --> 02:44:50,800
Speaker 1: I'll say, because this is how we did it an

2536
02:44:50,840 --> 02:44:53,440
Speaker 1: evidence and how we discussed it is it doesn't really

2537
02:44:53,560 --> 02:44:56,960
Speaker 1: matter what his supposed intent was on the side of

2538
02:44:57,000 --> 02:45:00,640
Speaker 1: the road. What really matters is what he did the aftermath,

2539
02:45:00,680 --> 02:45:03,120
Speaker 1: and that's of course, to call nine one one and

2540
02:45:03,280 --> 02:45:05,959
Speaker 1: to tell the ambulance driver and to tell law enforcement

2541
02:45:06,000 --> 02:45:08,720
Speaker 1: at the scene that he had been just simply, you know,

2542
02:45:08,920 --> 02:45:11,400
Speaker 1: dealing with a flat tire and had been, you know,

2543
02:45:11,959 --> 02:45:14,080
Speaker 1: suddenly and without warning, shot in the back of the

2544
02:45:14,160 --> 02:45:18,400
Speaker 1: head by an unknown assailant. And that's clearly what it was.

2545
02:45:18,480 --> 02:45:22,160
Speaker 1: It clearly was meant to try to create in the

2546
02:45:22,280 --> 02:45:26,480
Speaker 1: minds of people, oh my gosh, the supposed real killers

2547
02:45:26,520 --> 02:45:29,320
Speaker 1: are back. And that's precisely what he did. And there's

2548
02:45:29,320 --> 02:45:33,320
Speaker 1: also a symmetry there between what happened on June seventh

2549
02:45:33,400 --> 02:45:36,640
Speaker 1: and what you see happen on September fourth, when accountability

2550
02:45:36,720 --> 02:45:39,640
Speaker 1: was finally arriving for Alec Murdoch. On both those dates,

2551
02:45:40,200 --> 02:45:43,720
Speaker 1: bad things happen. Violence happens, and I think that he

2552
02:45:44,080 --> 02:45:47,760
Speaker 1: was trying again. He had just faced things he can

2553
02:45:47,800 --> 02:45:50,560
Speaker 1: no longer deny the law firm. And it's certainly no

2554
02:45:50,680 --> 02:45:53,600
Speaker 1: coincidence that within the short period of time the side

2555
02:45:53,640 --> 02:45:55,760
Speaker 1: of the road happens and all of a sudden, Alec,

2556
02:45:55,800 --> 02:45:58,240
Speaker 1: who was about to face accountability like you never had,

2557
02:45:58,280 --> 02:45:59,680
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he's a victim again, all of

2558
02:45:59,680 --> 02:46:01,240
Speaker 1: a sudd and he's in the hospital. All of a sudden,

2559
02:46:01,240 --> 02:46:03,520
Speaker 1: everybody's rushing to his age, all of a sudden, everybody's

2560
02:46:03,560 --> 02:46:06,760
Speaker 1: worried that the threat is out there. And it was

2561
02:46:06,800 --> 02:46:11,160
Speaker 1: all bs and once again we hear Alex Murdag very

2562
02:46:11,240 --> 02:46:15,080
Speaker 1: fluently lying to nine one one on the phone and

2563
02:46:15,360 --> 02:46:19,560
Speaker 1: establishing a big lie with us. Creighton Waters, I can't

2564
02:46:19,600 --> 02:46:22,840
Speaker 1: thank you enough. We watched you throughout the trial and

2565
02:46:23,040 --> 02:46:25,840
Speaker 1: it's a real honor and privilege to get to speak

2566
02:46:25,879 --> 02:46:28,200
Speaker 1: to you. Thank you for joining us. It was great

2567
02:46:28,200 --> 02:46:30,360
Speaker 1: to talk to you, Nancy, and thank you very much. Guys.

2568
02:46:30,480 --> 02:46:33,160
Speaker 1: We are here outside the courthouse of bringing you the

2569
02:46:33,280 --> 02:46:38,920
Speaker 1: sentencing and the aftermath in the case of Alex murdag

2570
02:46:39,640 --> 02:46:46,360
Speaker 1: now convicted and sentenced to two consecutive life sentences, and

2571
02:46:46,520 --> 02:46:52,119
Speaker 1: the murders of Maggie and Paul. It has been a long,

2572
02:46:53,080 --> 02:46:56,920
Speaker 1: long journey to this day of justice. I want to

2573
02:46:57,040 --> 02:47:03,520
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us every step of the way. Guys,

2574
02:47:04,400 --> 02:47:08,120
Speaker 1: so much has been happening in and outside the courtroom.

2575
02:47:08,480 --> 02:47:12,400
Speaker 1: I only wish you could be here with us and

2576
02:47:12,959 --> 02:47:18,600
Speaker 1: seeing people still milling around, people still questioning what happened.

2577
02:47:19,680 --> 02:47:25,960
Speaker 1: Happened at the defense pressor what happened in the courtroom. Guys,

2578
02:47:26,400 --> 02:47:31,600
Speaker 1: the defense attorney is vowing an appeal, a vigorous appeal.

2579
02:47:32,120 --> 02:47:33,760
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut

2580
02:47:34,000 --> 02:47:39,600
Speaker 1: twenty one. This was Dick Hartputlian at his best. Take

2581
02:47:39,680 --> 02:47:42,280
Speaker 1: a listen. Ten days we'll be following an appeal. What

2582
02:47:42,400 --> 02:47:45,520
Speaker 1: do you believe in the strongest round for? But you

2583
02:47:45,600 --> 02:47:47,480
Speaker 1: know it was beaten. Did a mention of all the

2584
02:47:47,560 --> 02:47:52,000
Speaker 1: financial crime evidence and that was offered up. You know,

2585
02:47:52,080 --> 02:47:55,320
Speaker 1: I was having us a motive that because he was

2586
02:47:55,400 --> 02:48:00,800
Speaker 1: confronted about one financial transaction involving attorneys fee by the

2587
02:48:01,680 --> 02:48:06,280
Speaker 1: chief accountant of the law firm that was being offered

2588
02:48:06,320 --> 02:48:08,280
Speaker 1: his motive for why he would go home and kill

2589
02:48:08,360 --> 02:48:11,960
Speaker 1: his wife and son, which we thought was illogical and ludicrous,

2590
02:48:12,480 --> 02:48:17,080
Speaker 1: and there really was no evidence linking one to the other,

2591
02:48:17,600 --> 02:48:21,120
Speaker 1: and we did not think it should come in. Not

2592
02:48:21,200 --> 02:48:25,279
Speaker 1: only did that come in, but every other financial misdeed

2593
02:48:25,440 --> 02:48:28,000
Speaker 1: that they could bring in over the last ten or

2594
02:48:28,040 --> 02:48:31,560
Speaker 1: fifteen years was allowed in. And we think that we

2595
02:48:31,720 --> 02:48:36,080
Speaker 1: strongly objected. We respect the judge's decision, but we believe

2596
02:48:36,480 --> 02:48:42,360
Speaker 1: that that was erroneous decision. Guys, an erroneous decision. This

2597
02:48:42,640 --> 02:48:45,560
Speaker 1: is less than twenty four hours after the jury verdict.

2598
02:48:45,800 --> 02:48:49,360
Speaker 1: But I believe him in the sense that they will appeal,

2599
02:48:49,879 --> 02:48:53,000
Speaker 1: joining me as a veteran trial lawyer, Dale Carson joining

2600
02:48:53,080 --> 02:48:56,240
Speaker 1: us out of Jacksonville, former fed with the FBI. What

2601
02:48:56,400 --> 02:48:59,480
Speaker 1: do you think will be their strongest point on appeal? Well,

2602
02:48:59,520 --> 02:49:02,880
Speaker 1: I mean the character Evans say is an issue here.

2603
02:49:03,560 --> 02:49:06,440
Speaker 1: Did they destroy his character in such an effective way

2604
02:49:06,840 --> 02:49:10,360
Speaker 1: that there was no way for anyone to believe his testimony?

2605
02:49:10,680 --> 02:49:14,160
Speaker 1: And clearly when he testified on stand, there were certain

2606
02:49:14,280 --> 02:49:19,080
Speaker 1: characteristics that seemed to not be someone who's telling the truth.

2607
02:49:19,800 --> 02:49:23,320
Speaker 1: But there are two other points, you know, One is

2608
02:49:23,400 --> 02:49:29,119
Speaker 1: that when he testified. There were a number of occasions

2609
02:49:29,280 --> 02:49:33,160
Speaker 1: during the testimony where the jurors could watch his reaction

2610
02:49:33,680 --> 02:49:36,560
Speaker 1: to questions that were put to him by the prosecutor,

2611
02:49:37,040 --> 02:49:41,600
Speaker 1: and it was clear that he was not responding properly

2612
02:49:42,160 --> 02:49:45,440
Speaker 1: and in a way that was disconnected from the truth.

2613
02:49:45,959 --> 02:49:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, he never really answered many of the questions.

2614
02:49:49,080 --> 02:49:53,279
Speaker 1: So the other point here is that when they appeal

2615
02:49:53,440 --> 02:49:55,920
Speaker 1: the case, they have the issue of the juror who

2616
02:49:56,040 --> 02:50:00,720
Speaker 1: was removed, and they also have the other issue of

2617
02:50:01,440 --> 02:50:07,440
Speaker 1: presenting that character evidence which made his testimony irrelevant ultimately.

2618
02:50:08,040 --> 02:50:10,920
Speaker 1: But I would look for the appeal to come quickly

2619
02:50:11,560 --> 02:50:16,160
Speaker 1: and to ultimately not be supported by the appellate courts

2620
02:50:16,520 --> 02:50:19,360
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. This was an excellent trial

2621
02:50:20,120 --> 02:50:23,760
Speaker 1: judge who watched the evidence as it came in and

2622
02:50:23,959 --> 02:50:27,760
Speaker 1: made informed decisions about whether or not the government should

2623
02:50:27,800 --> 02:50:30,720
Speaker 1: be allowed to present it. And it seemed to me

2624
02:50:30,920 --> 02:50:35,320
Speaker 1: his rulings were appropriate given the circumstances, well as far

2625
02:50:35,400 --> 02:50:39,520
Speaker 1: as all the financial evidence, which yes attacks his reputation.

2626
02:50:39,600 --> 02:50:44,400
Speaker 1: Of course that's his own doing. Typically, other crimes not

2627
02:50:44,640 --> 02:50:47,800
Speaker 1: related to the case in chief the murder are not allowed,

2628
02:50:47,879 --> 02:50:51,480
Speaker 1: and in its reversible error in this case, However, the

2629
02:50:51,720 --> 02:50:56,320
Speaker 1: state continued to assert that that was motive evidence, that

2630
02:50:56,640 --> 02:51:02,320
Speaker 1: all the financial pressures and as they described, like a

2631
02:51:02,680 --> 02:51:06,360
Speaker 1: rat on a wheel going around and around, Murdod was

2632
02:51:06,560 --> 02:51:09,680
Speaker 1: pushed to the brink and that he believed somehow by

2633
02:51:09,840 --> 02:51:13,680
Speaker 1: killing Maggie and Paul, it would alleviate that pressure. It

2634
02:51:13,760 --> 02:51:17,680
Speaker 1: would number one, make the boat crash case, the multimillion

2635
02:51:17,720 --> 02:51:22,360
Speaker 1: dollars lawsuit, go away, and it did. It subsided the

2636
02:51:22,800 --> 02:51:25,560
Speaker 1: lawyer who we just spoke with, Tenseley, said the case

2637
02:51:25,720 --> 02:51:29,800
Speaker 1: was worth a lot less once Paul was killed, because

2638
02:51:29,959 --> 02:51:35,600
Speaker 1: then you don't have a drunken young man responsible for

2639
02:51:35,800 --> 02:51:40,480
Speaker 1: a death. You have a grieving father and that's much

2640
02:51:40,560 --> 02:51:45,120
Speaker 1: more sympathetic. And there were rumors swirling, of course, that

2641
02:51:45,280 --> 02:51:50,680
Speaker 1: Maggie was seeking a divorce and that would require forensic accounting,

2642
02:51:51,040 --> 02:51:54,640
Speaker 1: which would you know, that's really help point years to

2643
02:51:55,920 --> 02:52:00,720
Speaker 1: the fact South Carolina was considering returning to a jury

2644
02:52:01,520 --> 02:52:05,840
Speaker 1: trial for divorces and had that happened, and of course

2645
02:52:06,160 --> 02:52:08,000
Speaker 1: he was in a position to be aware of this,

2646
02:52:08,760 --> 02:52:11,600
Speaker 1: he could all of his testimony would point to the

2647
02:52:11,720 --> 02:52:14,640
Speaker 1: financial crimes that he was engaged in. So what an

2648
02:52:14,720 --> 02:52:17,640
Speaker 1: easy way to get rid of that possibility? I mean,

2649
02:52:17,720 --> 02:52:22,440
Speaker 1: that bill is in committee now, but it's quite possible.

2650
02:52:22,760 --> 02:52:26,879
Speaker 1: We believe that it could come to fruition by being passed,

2651
02:52:27,280 --> 02:52:30,840
Speaker 1: and that would have exposed him even more directly and

2652
02:52:31,280 --> 02:52:34,920
Speaker 1: would have allowed the now deceased wife to get all

2653
02:52:35,040 --> 02:52:37,920
Speaker 1: of his assets. Well, another thing, if you look at

2654
02:52:37,959 --> 02:52:42,000
Speaker 1: his opioid addiction, which he used as a defense, that

2655
02:52:42,200 --> 02:52:46,080
Speaker 1: in itself destroyed his reputation. He did that on his own.

2656
02:52:46,480 --> 02:52:49,400
Speaker 1: They brought that in. The defense brought that in, So

2657
02:52:49,560 --> 02:52:52,520
Speaker 1: his reputation was already shot to hell of that because

2658
02:52:52,560 --> 02:52:56,040
Speaker 1: of that squandering fifty grand a week according to the

2659
02:52:56,120 --> 02:53:00,440
Speaker 1: defense on opioids, basically stealing that out of his wife

2660
02:53:00,480 --> 02:53:04,480
Speaker 1: and his family's pockets own. No, his reputation was in

2661
02:53:04,600 --> 02:53:08,400
Speaker 1: tatters before the financial miss days came in. People who

2662
02:53:08,560 --> 02:53:12,240
Speaker 1: use drugs are not predictable. I mean, a normal human

2663
02:53:12,320 --> 02:53:17,200
Speaker 1: being is not necessarily predictable, but certainly one who's using narcotics,

2664
02:53:17,520 --> 02:53:21,720
Speaker 1: whether elicit or elicit, you can't predict their behavior. And

2665
02:53:21,800 --> 02:53:25,280
Speaker 1: I think the judge got it exactly right. Maybe you

2666
02:53:25,480 --> 02:53:28,880
Speaker 1: didn't do it, but the monster that you've become is

2667
02:53:28,959 --> 02:53:33,320
Speaker 1: what killed your wife and the son you loved, and

2668
02:53:33,480 --> 02:53:36,840
Speaker 1: I think that's just accurate as it gets. I don't

2669
02:53:36,840 --> 02:53:42,640
Speaker 1: want to go to deep into complicated legal theories, but

2670
02:53:42,640 --> 02:53:45,360
Speaker 1: I want to tell you this. It's what's bothering me

2671
02:53:45,440 --> 02:53:48,400
Speaker 1: about the financial crimes coming in. Do I think that

2672
02:53:48,520 --> 02:53:51,280
Speaker 1: they were warranted in coming in? Yes? I do. Do

2673
02:53:51,440 --> 02:53:54,000
Speaker 1: I think his reputation was already shot because of the

2674
02:53:54,080 --> 02:53:59,280
Speaker 1: opioid addiction that they entered as an excuse. But here's

2675
02:53:59,360 --> 02:54:04,480
Speaker 1: where may have a shot, and I mean may the

2676
02:54:04,640 --> 02:54:09,920
Speaker 1: fact that the defense opened the door to prior bad acts.

2677
02:54:10,560 --> 02:54:13,520
Speaker 1: I believe it was Griffin on the stand asked about

2678
02:54:13,720 --> 02:54:19,400
Speaker 1: a financial crime, and when he did that that it's

2679
02:54:19,440 --> 02:54:22,680
Speaker 1: like a vampire. You have to invite it in. It

2680
02:54:22,800 --> 02:54:25,760
Speaker 1: can't just come in on its own. And when Griffin

2681
02:54:26,160 --> 02:54:30,320
Speaker 1: opened the door, the state came in under the law

2682
02:54:30,520 --> 02:54:34,480
Speaker 1: that is allowable. But now Murdog is in the position

2683
02:54:34,600 --> 02:54:40,840
Speaker 1: of claiming in effective assistance of counsel because because of

2684
02:54:40,920 --> 02:54:46,560
Speaker 1: Griffin's question, all that financial data, all those crimes previously

2685
02:54:46,720 --> 02:54:51,000
Speaker 1: ruled out, came in. I could see him having a

2686
02:54:51,120 --> 02:54:52,920
Speaker 1: leg to stand. And do I think it'll work. No,

2687
02:54:53,760 --> 02:54:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna work. I mean, if you

2688
02:54:55,760 --> 02:54:59,560
Speaker 1: look statistically, deal Carson, when a defendant takes a stand

2689
02:55:00,360 --> 02:55:05,160
Speaker 1: and completely t bones his case in front of the jury.

2690
02:55:06,760 --> 02:55:11,480
Speaker 1: Very rarely do you get a reversal on appeal, Very rare.

2691
02:55:11,800 --> 02:55:15,720
Speaker 1: That's the stats. But there's still question that the ability

2692
02:55:15,840 --> 02:55:20,160
Speaker 1: of him winning the appeal is quite limited, given not

2693
02:55:20,280 --> 02:55:22,800
Speaker 1: only the length of the information that came before the

2694
02:55:22,920 --> 02:55:26,000
Speaker 1: jury family when they made their decision, but also the

2695
02:55:26,080 --> 02:55:29,480
Speaker 1: way the court handled the presentation of the evidence and

2696
02:55:29,600 --> 02:55:33,600
Speaker 1: what he allowed to appear before the jury admitted evidence.

2697
02:55:34,080 --> 02:55:35,720
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think he's got much of a

2698
02:55:35,879 --> 02:55:39,880
Speaker 1: chance of winning an appeal. However, any question related to

2699
02:55:40,000 --> 02:55:43,800
Speaker 1: why an attorney is present and you don't respond to things,

2700
02:55:44,200 --> 02:55:48,360
Speaker 1: that's certainly something that could overturn some of this. But

2701
02:55:48,480 --> 02:55:52,160
Speaker 1: I think the evidence is massive against him. He was

2702
02:55:52,200 --> 02:55:56,280
Speaker 1: the only person there. Family guns were used. Well, even

2703
02:55:56,360 --> 02:56:00,080
Speaker 1: though one of the firings was changed, you know, there

2704
02:56:00,200 --> 02:56:03,760
Speaker 1: was a lot of evidence that supported his conviction. Yes, man,

2705
02:56:04,879 --> 02:56:06,320
Speaker 1: hold on just a second. I want to get to

2706
02:56:06,400 --> 02:56:10,520
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonah before we lose his satellite. Chris mcdonnah, I

2707
02:56:10,640 --> 02:56:14,320
Speaker 1: know you're hearing Dell Carson speaking. He's a veteran trial lawyer.

2708
02:56:14,400 --> 02:56:17,000
Speaker 1: He knows what he's talking about. But if this thing

2709
02:56:17,400 --> 02:56:20,280
Speaker 1: does by chance and get reversed on appeal. That's going

2710
02:56:20,360 --> 02:56:24,119
Speaker 1: to be such a kick in the teeth for all

2711
02:56:24,200 --> 02:56:26,880
Speaker 1: the law enforcement they worked so hard to put this

2712
02:56:27,000 --> 02:56:32,960
Speaker 1: case together. Yeah, it will be dancy because you know,

2713
02:56:33,080 --> 02:56:37,360
Speaker 1: all of that effort obviously will feel like, you know, okay,

2714
02:56:37,400 --> 02:56:40,080
Speaker 1: we got to do this all over again now. I

2715
02:56:40,200 --> 02:56:42,720
Speaker 1: think they'll I think they'll rally the troops it you know,

2716
02:56:43,080 --> 02:56:46,880
Speaker 1: God forbid that happens. As as we just listened to

2717
02:56:47,920 --> 02:56:51,440
Speaker 1: just the tone of the humility on the prosecution side,

2718
02:56:51,760 --> 02:56:54,560
Speaker 1: I mean, from the top down, everybody, every one of

2719
02:56:54,600 --> 02:56:58,000
Speaker 1: your guests here today have been, you know, so humble

2720
02:56:58,160 --> 02:57:02,160
Speaker 1: and transferring the you know, the applause to the next person.

2721
02:57:02,680 --> 02:57:05,160
Speaker 1: But then you hear the other side, and granted, the

2722
02:57:05,240 --> 02:57:07,640
Speaker 1: defense has to do their job, and they're doing a

2723
02:57:07,720 --> 02:57:13,560
Speaker 1: great job, but you almost hear Alec speaking again, and

2724
02:57:14,200 --> 02:57:16,800
Speaker 1: you know that in of itself again just tells us

2725
02:57:17,360 --> 02:57:19,680
Speaker 1: what these guys have been up against you for the

2726
02:57:19,800 --> 02:57:21,800
Speaker 1: last year and a half, two years. But for it

2727
02:57:21,920 --> 02:57:24,760
Speaker 1: to come back and to start all over again, I

2728
02:57:24,879 --> 02:57:28,800
Speaker 1: think it would be very disheartening, disheartening. And you know,

2729
02:57:29,000 --> 02:57:32,400
Speaker 1: Joe got Morgan, Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University and

2730
02:57:32,520 --> 02:57:35,600
Speaker 1: so much more. That's why they get the big bucks.

2731
02:57:35,640 --> 02:57:38,440
Speaker 1: And let me tell you something, Dick Cart, Pootlean and Griffin,

2732
02:57:38,560 --> 02:57:41,440
Speaker 1: they don't come cheap. They are going to fight this thing,

2733
02:57:41,600 --> 02:57:44,120
Speaker 1: and they gave him a fantastic defense. But look what

2734
02:57:44,200 --> 02:57:46,800
Speaker 1: they had to work with. I mean the crime scene

2735
02:57:46,840 --> 02:57:51,840
Speaker 1: evidence alone, that's your Billy Wick was damning. Yeah. Well,

2736
02:57:52,120 --> 02:57:56,720
Speaker 1: and they went out and got some pop pop notch expert.

2737
02:57:57,400 --> 02:58:01,840
Speaker 1: But I'd like to address something else here, Nancy three words,

2738
02:58:01,959 --> 02:58:07,520
Speaker 1: eiding and abetting. If anyone thinks that Sled is done

2739
02:58:07,600 --> 02:58:11,640
Speaker 1: with this investigation, you better wake up smell though, because

2740
02:58:12,000 --> 02:58:15,840
Speaker 1: my suspicion is they're going to continue to dig into

2741
02:58:15,920 --> 02:58:18,720
Speaker 1: this case. You brought up a very salient point a

2742
02:58:18,800 --> 02:58:22,680
Speaker 1: few moments ago when you were talking to the prosecuting

2743
02:58:23,320 --> 02:58:26,080
Speaker 1: You were asking where did all that money go? And

2744
02:58:26,360 --> 02:58:30,040
Speaker 1: it's a ton of money, millions and millions of dollars.

2745
02:58:30,720 --> 02:58:33,920
Speaker 1: This is not like some kind of It didn't just

2746
02:58:34,120 --> 02:58:38,360
Speaker 1: vanish my suspicion as somebody else has had hand in this. Now.

2747
02:58:38,360 --> 02:58:40,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were directly involved in what

2748
02:58:41,120 --> 02:58:45,000
Speaker 1: happened out there that night, but those weapons are somewhere

2749
02:58:45,120 --> 02:58:48,960
Speaker 1: out in the deep dark hole right now. That money

2750
02:58:49,360 --> 02:58:52,320
Speaker 1: is somewhere right now. I wonder whose pocket it's in it.

2751
02:58:52,920 --> 02:58:58,600
Speaker 1: And anybody that participated in the facilitation of this crime

2752
02:58:58,879 --> 02:59:01,920
Speaker 1: or cover up Sled is going to be on this.

2753
02:59:02,080 --> 02:59:06,280
Speaker 1: They're gonna be looking at you know. It's it's understood

2754
02:59:06,400 --> 02:59:07,960
Speaker 1: that a defense attorney is going to go out and

2755
02:59:08,040 --> 02:59:10,439
Speaker 1: get in front in front of a bank of microphone

2756
02:59:10,920 --> 02:59:14,119
Speaker 1: the day after his client has been found guilty. That's

2757
02:59:14,120 --> 02:59:16,920
Speaker 1: a given. But you know, a few moments ago it

2758
02:59:17,080 --> 02:59:19,720
Speaker 1: was mentioned that when the chief got up there from

2759
02:59:19,800 --> 02:59:23,880
Speaker 1: Sled and he mentioned that kind of tangential comment that

2760
02:59:24,000 --> 02:59:29,160
Speaker 1: he made relative to others that might be involved. They're

2761
02:59:29,200 --> 02:59:31,720
Speaker 1: not sleeping on this, Nancy. They're moving forward, and I

2762
02:59:31,800 --> 02:59:34,920
Speaker 1: can tell you there will be no stunt stone left unturned.

2763
02:59:35,240 --> 02:59:39,480
Speaker 1: Their focus here has been on Alley And don't you know,

2764
02:59:39,600 --> 02:59:43,400
Speaker 1: nobody kids yourself here. He's looking at a long time

2765
02:59:43,480 --> 02:59:46,800
Speaker 1: in prison. If he can soften the blow by rolling

2766
02:59:46,879 --> 02:59:50,200
Speaker 1: over on anybody at all where he would get special privileges.

2767
02:59:50,240 --> 02:59:52,920
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about a reduction in sentence, but getting

2768
02:59:52,959 --> 02:59:56,040
Speaker 1: taken out of general population or anything like that. Trust me,

2769
02:59:56,200 --> 02:59:59,800
Speaker 1: once that pressure is applied inside that institution, he will

2770
02:59:59,840 --> 03:00:02,840
Speaker 1: do if there's anybody else involved in this, he's gonna

2771
03:00:02,879 --> 03:00:05,280
Speaker 1: start screaming pretty soon. Guys, I want you to hear

2772
03:00:05,360 --> 03:00:10,400
Speaker 1: our cut fifteen. This is what it all is about.

2773
03:00:10,640 --> 03:00:15,640
Speaker 1: This is how this case culminates, with Judge Newman passing

2774
03:00:15,760 --> 03:00:21,600
Speaker 1: sentence on Alex Murdo to Murdo, I sentence you to

2775
03:00:21,760 --> 03:00:25,440
Speaker 1: the State Department of Corrections on each of the murder

2776
03:00:25,520 --> 03:00:32,480
Speaker 1: indictments in the murder of your wife, Maggie Murdal. I

2777
03:00:32,640 --> 03:00:35,600
Speaker 1: sentence you for the term of the rest of your

2778
03:00:35,680 --> 03:00:45,960
Speaker 1: natural life. For the murder of Paul Murda, whom you

2779
03:00:46,120 --> 03:00:52,800
Speaker 1: probably love so much. I sentence you to prison for

2780
03:00:52,959 --> 03:00:58,119
Speaker 1: murdering him for the rest of your natural life. Those

2781
03:00:58,200 --> 03:01:05,240
Speaker 1: sentences will run secretive. Under the statute involving possession of

2782
03:01:05,400 --> 03:01:10,199
Speaker 1: weapon doing a violent crime, there is no sentence where life.

2783
03:01:10,480 --> 03:01:17,560
Speaker 1: A life sentence is imposed on other indictments. That is

2784
03:01:17,600 --> 03:01:19,720
Speaker 1: the sentence of the court, and you are remanded to

2785
03:01:19,840 --> 03:01:30,520
Speaker 1: the State Department of Corrections, and officers may carry forth

2786
03:01:31,560 --> 03:01:38,560
Speaker 1: on the imposition. Alex Myrdock, standing emotionless as the sentence

2787
03:01:38,600 --> 03:01:43,920
Speaker 1: has read, two life sentences to run consecutively, one after

2788
03:01:44,360 --> 03:01:47,279
Speaker 1: the next, and that as much the way he responded

2789
03:01:47,320 --> 03:01:50,080
Speaker 1: when the jury found him guilty, he didn't seem surprised

2790
03:01:50,200 --> 03:01:55,400
Speaker 1: at all, Kelly Skin, Did you notice no surprise registered

2791
03:01:55,520 --> 03:01:58,760
Speaker 1: on his face at all when he was sentenced nor

2792
03:01:58,920 --> 03:02:01,640
Speaker 1: when he was convicted. Yeah, I think we're at an

2793
03:02:01,720 --> 03:02:04,920
Speaker 1: interesting juncture here, Nancy. We've heard up until this point

2794
03:02:05,080 --> 03:02:07,240
Speaker 1: said Alec Murdoch has played a big role in his

2795
03:02:07,360 --> 03:02:09,600
Speaker 1: own defense, and I think this tiger is going to

2796
03:02:09,720 --> 03:02:12,400
Speaker 1: change his stripes and probably, like we've been talking about,

2797
03:02:12,480 --> 03:02:14,920
Speaker 1: turn on his own defense team and try and say

2798
03:02:14,959 --> 03:02:17,600
Speaker 1: that he got ineffective counsel, although he was part of that.

2799
03:02:17,920 --> 03:02:20,040
Speaker 1: So I think as all of these charges are being read,

2800
03:02:20,040 --> 03:02:22,960
Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch is looking forward to the future because, according

2801
03:02:23,040 --> 03:02:25,640
Speaker 1: to the prosecution and according to the jury, he killed

2802
03:02:25,720 --> 03:02:27,680
Speaker 1: his wife and son, and deep down he knows that.

2803
03:02:28,000 --> 03:02:30,879
Speaker 1: So as he's been planning his alibi and changing his alibi,

2804
03:02:31,160 --> 03:02:33,600
Speaker 1: maybe he's already been thinking ahead to the future and

2805
03:02:33,720 --> 03:02:37,560
Speaker 1: how he's going to fight this verdict and file appeals

2806
03:02:37,879 --> 03:02:40,360
Speaker 1: and continue to play a role in his own defense

2807
03:02:40,680 --> 03:02:46,000
Speaker 1: with different lawyers. Possibly. Yeah, Murdoch is wildly and cunning

2808
03:02:46,120 --> 03:02:49,600
Speaker 1: like a fox. I guarantee you he's already planning his

2809
03:02:49,800 --> 03:02:52,840
Speaker 1: next move. And he knows the system. He is a

2810
03:02:52,959 --> 03:02:55,400
Speaker 1: veteran's trial lawyer himself. He's in a lot of cases.

2811
03:02:55,440 --> 03:02:58,880
Speaker 1: He knows how to manipulate juries, how to make arguments,

2812
03:02:59,280 --> 03:03:02,880
Speaker 1: how to let a n reversible error if needed in

2813
03:03:03,000 --> 03:03:06,160
Speaker 1: a trial. But it was his decision to take the stand.

2814
03:03:06,680 --> 03:03:09,120
Speaker 1: Before he got up on the stand, the judge very

2815
03:03:09,240 --> 03:03:12,360
Speaker 1: carefully said, does anybody have emotion or does anybody have

2816
03:03:12,480 --> 03:03:15,400
Speaker 1: anything they want to say before Murdock took the stand,

2817
03:03:15,440 --> 03:03:19,680
Speaker 1: and they said no. And very typically at the end

2818
03:03:19,680 --> 03:03:23,080
Speaker 1: of a trial, you'll hear a judge tell the defendant

2819
03:03:23,440 --> 03:03:25,480
Speaker 1: you have a right to remain silent. Are you sure

2820
03:03:25,520 --> 03:03:28,240
Speaker 1: you want to take the stand? And then that's on

2821
03:03:28,480 --> 03:03:32,040
Speaker 1: the defendant. Guys. Many people are wondering how the jury

2822
03:03:32,240 --> 03:03:36,080
Speaker 1: reached their decision. And we did hear from one year

2823
03:03:36,280 --> 03:03:38,480
Speaker 1: or early early you take a listen to him speaking

2824
03:03:38,480 --> 03:03:42,720
Speaker 1: to our friends over at GMA. He started deliberating, going

2825
03:03:42,800 --> 03:03:51,720
Speaker 1: through the defendance. Everybody was pretty much talking and holding

2826
03:03:51,760 --> 03:03:57,720
Speaker 1: About forty five minutes later, are we after all our deliberating,

2827
03:03:58,520 --> 03:04:02,400
Speaker 1: we figured it out. So it's basically forty five minutes

2828
03:04:02,520 --> 03:04:04,760
Speaker 1: for you guys to come to a decision. Probably about

2829
03:04:05,040 --> 03:04:07,880
Speaker 1: forty five maybe an hour. If you really look at everything,

2830
03:04:08,240 --> 03:04:12,040
Speaker 1: it's it's all plain and clear. Wow, it was very

2831
03:04:12,200 --> 03:04:15,680
Speaker 1: clear to this jury. And many people del Carson have

2832
03:04:15,720 --> 03:04:19,320
Speaker 1: attacked the jury already saying they rushed to judgment. They've

2833
03:04:19,320 --> 03:04:21,760
Speaker 1: been listening to evidence for weeks. I don't think there

2834
03:04:21,840 --> 03:04:24,760
Speaker 1: was a rush. No, I don't either, Nancy, and I.

2835
03:04:25,200 --> 03:04:27,440
Speaker 1: You know, one of the interesting things that the defense

2836
03:04:28,640 --> 03:04:32,400
Speaker 1: brought up, which I thought was rather interesting and insightful

2837
03:04:32,840 --> 03:04:37,240
Speaker 1: from our perspective at least, is that when asked are

2838
03:04:37,360 --> 03:04:40,200
Speaker 1: you are you going to look for the killer, the

2839
03:04:40,360 --> 03:04:45,200
Speaker 1: actual killers? Nobody's interested in that. Now they're said, well,

2840
03:04:45,360 --> 03:04:48,520
Speaker 1: sled should have found them. Well, if you represent, if

2841
03:04:48,560 --> 03:04:51,640
Speaker 1: I represent you in a criminal matter of this magnitude,

2842
03:04:52,120 --> 03:04:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm certainly going to hire some investigators to look and

2843
03:04:55,240 --> 03:04:58,800
Speaker 1: if nothing else, I'm going to put out a bounty

2844
03:04:59,240 --> 03:05:04,880
Speaker 1: for information connected with the actual killers, because that's something that,

2845
03:05:05,040 --> 03:05:08,120
Speaker 1: with true a wrench in the entire operation. If in

2846
03:05:08,320 --> 03:05:12,800
Speaker 1: fact it's true that he's not guilty. Yet the defense

2847
03:05:13,120 --> 03:05:16,440
Speaker 1: didn't bring that up, and in fact, through that the

2848
03:05:16,760 --> 03:05:20,640
Speaker 1: side and worried about the appeal rather than dealing with

2849
03:05:20,800 --> 03:05:24,400
Speaker 1: the real hard fact that if he's innocent, the real

2850
03:05:24,560 --> 03:05:27,360
Speaker 1: killers are still out there and they're getting away with well.

2851
03:05:27,360 --> 03:05:29,880
Speaker 1: The defense made it very clear in their pressor that

2852
03:05:30,080 --> 03:05:32,240
Speaker 1: it's not their job to find the real killer, even

2853
03:05:32,280 --> 03:05:35,760
Speaker 1: though they are representing the husband and the father of

2854
03:05:35,879 --> 03:05:40,760
Speaker 1: the two victims. Guys, our time here at the Carlton

2855
03:05:40,800 --> 03:05:44,640
Speaker 1: County Courthouse is coming to a close, as has this case.

2856
03:05:45,879 --> 03:05:48,240
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, this case, like every other

2857
03:05:48,280 --> 03:05:51,640
Speaker 1: case that I tried, takes a piece of you, takes

2858
03:05:51,640 --> 03:05:53,360
Speaker 1: a piece of you for the rest of your life.

2859
03:05:53,840 --> 03:05:57,640
Speaker 1: I still remember victims I represented ten fifteen years ago,

2860
03:05:59,520 --> 03:06:02,360
Speaker 1: but today I think thoughts are on the victims in

2861
03:06:02,440 --> 03:06:08,440
Speaker 1: this case, Maggie and Paul. That's my takeaway. At the

2862
03:06:08,600 --> 03:06:11,320
Speaker 1: end of the day and at the close of the case,

2863
03:06:11,920 --> 03:06:15,240
Speaker 1: after all the motions and the arguments and the evidence

2864
03:06:15,600 --> 03:06:21,720
Speaker 1: and the slide show, it's about them. They lost their

2865
03:06:21,840 --> 03:06:26,320
Speaker 1: lives and that Kennel at Moselle, but their voices were

2866
03:06:26,400 --> 03:06:30,680
Speaker 1: heard through this jury. Thank you for being with us

2867
03:06:31,000 --> 03:06:34,760
Speaker 1: every step of the way. Nancy Gray signing off from

2868
03:06:34,760 --> 03:06:37,480
Speaker 1: the Colleton County Courthouse. Goodbye friend,