1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm welcome to the short stuff. I'm josh, there's chuck. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Neither one of us have four arms, which means that 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: this is the short stuff about Venus de Mila. Let's go. 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: That's right. Who resides in the louver, right? I think 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: since eighteen twenty one when Louis the what is that 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: eight No, yeah, the eighteen man. You threw me off. 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: Always forget how to read those. It's been a while. Yeah, 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: Louis the eighteenth donated Venus de Mila, one of the 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: most famous dare I say statues in the world. Yeah. Also, 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: just as a little a side chuck, if you ever 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: kind of get tripped up by something like that, you're 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: talking to somebody, just swap it out for like a 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: word like Louis the Magnificent, but say it authoritatively and 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: the person will think that that's the name for that 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: particular right, Louis the Overeater. So yeah, So the Venus 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: to my Hello first ended up in Paris in eighty one. 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: Apparently that was um that was a really good timing 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: because the nation of France was kind of in the 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: doll drums as far as art is concerned. Right, Yeah, 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: there's a gentleman that will make a couple of appearances 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: in this episode. His name is Andrew Stewart, and uh, 22 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: I think he's a professor right art art historian and professor, Yeah, 23 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: professor of Greek Studies at UC Berkeley emeritus too. Oh well, yeah, 24 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: the guy knows what he's talking about. Yeah. So apparently France, uh, 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: they needed their national pride kind of picked up, and 26 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: apparently Venus went a long way toward doing that. Yeah, 27 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: because Napoleon had sacked a bunch of countries and city 28 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: states and nations art collections plundered, and after the French Revolution, 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: Um well no, that was way after the French Revolution, 30 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: after Napoleon was banished, We'll say that France had to 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: give back a lot of that art. So the Louver 32 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: kind of got sacked in verse. And then also the 33 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: big dumb rival England, from France's vantage point of course, 34 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: not mine, had just acquired the Elgin Marbles, which meant 35 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: that they had a some sculpture by the greatest sculpture 36 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: of antiquity known to humanity. Faddists, Yeah, I got it. Um. 37 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: So the Venus de Milo comes along and they're like this, this, 38 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: this is the most important thing I ever found. Let's 39 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: um bandy it about as much as possible as such. Yeah, 40 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: and the whole thing with Venus de Milo is sort 41 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: of the mystery surrounding the origins and who the artist 42 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: was and who maybe she had been she may have been, 43 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: and and of course the big question is two questions, 44 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: what happened to those arms and what will those arms 45 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: are doing right before they were broken off, which I 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: have to admit I'd never thought of until reading this. Yeah, 47 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: I just never thought of her arms were doing anything 48 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: of note, it's kind of weird now that think about it. 49 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: But the funny thing is is, like you said, she 50 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: shrouded in mystery as to her identity. But the one 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: thing we know for certain she is not is Venus, 52 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: the goddess of love to Rome. She was Greek and 53 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: produced by the Greeks, so she would have been aphrodite 54 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: at best, but we're not even sure she's aphrodite. She 55 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: could be a number of other people that have been proposed, 56 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: or a number of other goddesses. It didn't even have 57 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: to be a goddess, right, No, it didn't. I saw 58 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: that she could have been an everyday person. But also, um, 59 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: she was found on me losch Uh, the Greek island 60 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: which was really engaged in the sea as far as 61 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: trade and fishing and all that. So some people have 62 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: supposed that she was um actually Amphra Tidy in Amphatidy 63 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: is there an r in there, thank you chuck, um, 64 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: that she's the goddess of the sea, Poseidon's old lady. 65 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: As far as iikers would say, Yeah, and in Venus 66 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: was always thought to be classical, but I think they 67 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: did enough digging and found that she was actually neo classical, 68 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: uh and not classical, although they say they sometimes still 69 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: refer to her as a masterpiece of the classical classical genre. Yeah, 70 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: because she again kind of carries France's national ego on 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: her shoulders. Um. So the idea that she was you know, 72 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: created by some unknown master far back in antiquity, um, 73 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: in the classical period is is kind of you know, 74 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: part of France's pride in this thing. But supposedly, yeah, 75 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: they figured out there was a German archaeologist named Adolph 76 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: seriously fort Wrangler, I love that man's last name, foot 77 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: thinker who that's even better, who basically said, yeah, she's 78 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: she's neo classical. You can tell from how she's dressed. 79 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: But then I guess they also when she was found, 80 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 1: they discovered a pedestal that had the sculptor's signature UM 81 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: that showed that she was very clearly created UM by 82 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: a guy named Alexandro's of Magnesia, not to be confused 83 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: with the milk of Magnesia, but that would be. But 84 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: then they lost it. They conveniently lost this pedestal and said, no, no, 85 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: this this is clearly created by one of the masters. 86 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: We just don't know which one, right, So good set up. 87 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: I think we should take a little break and talk 88 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: about those arms. I'm dina know about the arms right 89 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: after this. Well, now we're on the road, driving in 90 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: your truck. Want to learn a thing or two from 91 00:05:39,520 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: Josh can chuck it stuff you should know, all right? Arms? Yeah? 92 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: So again, never thought that her arms were doing anything. 93 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: I think I just assumed she was being like like, hey, 94 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: how's it going, I'm holding my hands out here, yeah, 95 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: or maybe like I don't know kind of thing um. 96 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: But there there has been a lot of debate about 97 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: what was going on with her arms. Apparently, at some point, 98 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: an arm that would fit this statue, the venus de 99 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: milo Um an arm holding an apple was found, and 100 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: they think it's possible. Some people think it's possible that 101 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: that was originally attached to the venus to Milo. Yeah, 102 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: and we should also point out there were some other 103 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: things missing from the original statue, like originally she supposedly 104 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: had metal jewelry bracelet earrings in a headband because they're 105 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: little fixation holes on those places in her body. And 106 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: they think that she might have also been painted at 107 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: one point and now that had it away, and then 108 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: the arms were I guess maybe some people might think 109 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: if they never looked into it, that you never had 110 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: the arms, but they were broken off because you can 111 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: see where that there were the dowel rods and everything. 112 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: Because it wasn't carved as one big piece. You know, 113 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: these arms were put on afterward. But um, yeah, like 114 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: you said, they found an arm with an apple, and 115 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: some people are like, well, yeah, she was holding an 116 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: apple on one of those hands, which actually fits. There's 117 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: a Greek myth called the Judgment of Paris about a 118 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: mythological um contest between Aphrodite, the goddess of love, hera 119 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: Zeus's wife, and Athena, the goddess of war and um 120 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: this contest between them was won by Aphrodite and the 121 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: prize was an apple, So this would have kind of 122 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: commented on the judgment of Paris and Aphrodite winning this. 123 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: And apparently it's symbolic of like the choice that that 124 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: people have in life, or that men back in ancient 125 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: Greece had right. So, um, your your choice in life 126 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: was between love, war and politics, Aphrodite Athena or hera 127 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: um and the Aphrodite one that people wanted to they 128 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: wanted they wanted to live with their heart. That's what 129 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: the statue symbolize in that sense. Yeah, and that's one 130 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: take on it. Um. I like this other one a lot. 131 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: This woman Elizabeth Wayland Barber, who's professor Emerita of Archaeology 132 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: and Linguistics at Occidental College, which I used to live near. 133 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: So I'm all about that. Um. She says, you know 134 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: what I think, And and she even did like this 135 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: three D renderings to sort of prove her point. She said, 136 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: I think she was a regular lady who was weaving 137 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: um thread. And she said, if you look at the 138 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: angle of the back and and ladies were doing all 139 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: this textile work back then, if you look at her 140 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: positioning and the way she was leaning and even where 141 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: exactly she was looking. It looks to me like she 142 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: was spinning thread. And they if you, you know, if 143 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: you look online, she has their pictures of her three 144 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: D rendered spinning the thread and it looks real enough 145 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: to me for someone who knows nothing about spent the 146 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: thread spinning. Well. Also, not only that, apparently the musculature 147 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: of her shoulders and arms, um, would be about what 148 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: you would expect for somebody who was spinning. She makes 149 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: a weird position. Yeah, well, she makes a really good case. 150 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: But also she this doesn't even need to be a 151 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: statue of just an ordinary person because apparently she says 152 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: Aphrodite was also the goddess of spinning, well, the goddess 153 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: of procreation and love. Um, so this would fit still anyway. Yeah, 154 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: that's a good point. Um. I did see another thing 155 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: that said, you know, from the angle of her back 156 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: that they said, it's one of those things where retroactically 157 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: you look back and it's like, you know, did Mona 158 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: Lisa have a disease or something? And they said, did 159 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: Venus de Milo have some sort of spinal condition? Because 160 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: when you look at the way her back is twisted 161 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: and angled. It is a very irregular um route for 162 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: the spine. But you know it's also a statue. Is 163 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: it one of those things that would be that would 164 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: be explained by the spinning position? Well, I mean it, 165 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: she says. It matches what could have been a spinning position. 166 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: But a spinning position could have been hard on your back. Maybe, 167 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. I would guess it would be hard 168 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: on your back for sure. It doesn't sound like something 169 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: I'd wanted to so the Venus de Milo. If you 170 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: haven't ever seen it, go see it. It's pretty neat. 171 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: It's in the loop. You can get there pretty easily, 172 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: especially if you're vaccinated against COVID nineteen. Good test. Uh, 173 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: since I said COVID nineteen, everybody that means short stuff 174 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: is out. Stuff you should know is a production of 175 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the 176 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 177 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.