WEBVTT - Ep. 52: Genuine Outlaws - Louie Dale and Charley Edwards, Part 1 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:08.000 M. Kenneth had stopped Uncle LiOD Ell and you're doing 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.639 about having dogs in the game, refuge, Uncloda said, I 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.520 ain't got on dogs in the game, Refuge Kenneth. He 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.960 just looked at Uncle I mean went to pull his 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:18.919 pistol and he said, we'll find out whose dog it is. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.560 And unclodill cocky rifle and said that dog dies, so 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.600 do you. On this episode of the Beargrease podcast, we're 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.680 telling a story that's never been written in a book 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.240 or seen on a film. It's a story that's close 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.680 to me. It's from my hometown. I want to introduce 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.240 you to two brothers who were some of the most 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:45.239 notorious turkey hunting outlaws to ever trapes the Hills of Arkansas. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.760 Their names were Louis Dell and Charlie Edwards, but in 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.160 an ironic twist, they were deeply respected in our community 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:59.480 for their forth rightness, genuine nature, and generosity. This story 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.640 is about bar fights, evading game wardens, and making whiskey, 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:09.720 all interwoven into a story about character and identity. I 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.520 wasn't expecting that either. I'm in search of learning something 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:18.560 about human nature, something about myself. I've committed to resolving 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.640 a lifelong position of inner conflict of revering these men 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:27.800 but also disdaining wanting disregard of the law. On this 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.600 first podcast, we're gonna get to know the brothers through 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.400 the voice of a son, men who hunted with them, 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.679 and the game warden that chased them for thirty years. 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.680 Though the brothers are both gone from this earth. In 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.200 later episodes, will dissect their lives with the experts to 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:50.920 learn why we love them and why we love outlaws. Well, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.400 I guess you get to decide if you like them 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.840 or not. I really doubt you're gonna want to miss 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.360 this one. Keep playing on, catching me, keep it, put 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.520 you forward or the raf Canna shoes so and then 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.680 you turn walked out. You know, the meeting was pretty 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.679 well over then that kind of busted things that you know. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.000 My name is Clay Nukelem and this is the Bear 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:28.080 Grease Podcast where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.679 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.960 story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:42.160 Presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.760 and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:55.560 the places we explore. When when I first started with 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.880 with the Commission, the first thing supervisor did was tella 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.959 that there's a standing offer of a state dinner for 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.760 the officer and his wife if they can catch Louis 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:10.080 Dale and Charlie Edwards illegal turkey hunting, and that would 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.639 be the best state dinner anywhere in the state. And 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.360 that stood for a long time, but it never got filled. Nobody. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.320 He never had to pay it up because nobody ever 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.840 called him. Nobody ever called him. We had state police 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.440 undercover agents come in, we had Federal Fish and Wildlife 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.959 undercover come in and they hunted with Charlie, but he 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:34.120 never ever and they've never hunted illegally. They count close, 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.080 but these officers never could get enough to catch them. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.520 That was retired Arkansas Game and Fish Game Warden Jimmy Martin. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.760 He worked in Polk and Montgomery County, Arkansas, in the 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.040 wash A Toss, which are the only mountain range between 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.280 the Rockies and Appalachians that run east and west. At 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.200 one time there were snow Captain soared ten thousand feet hall. 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.200 Today the highest peaks are in the three thousand foot range, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.560 eroded by wind water and ice so deep in time 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:14.200 the gaps are filled only with speculation. Time also erodes 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:19.680 human stories, but much faster. Aldo Leopold alluded to the 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.400 fact that individual cultures of the world reflect the wilderness 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.560 from which they were hewn. This is a big story 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:32.880 hewn by wilderness and hardship, and it's unusually personal for me. 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.360 You see, I grew up in Mina, Arkansas and the 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.320 Western Wash ATSs This was basically the hometown of Louis 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.000 Dell and Charlie Edwards, though they lived in a smaller 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.640 community about fifteen miles east of town. I grew up 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:51.120 immersed into stories of their exploits, and like a shadow 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.680 over our community, it was impossible to escape their lore, 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.360 their influence. Charlie was born in nineteen four Ay one 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.360 and passed away in ten at the age of seventy three. 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.960 Louis del the younger brother, was born in nineteen and 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:12.680 passed away just last year in April of one, at 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.880 the age of seventy six. These were modern men, and 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.679 I want to level with you. For years, I've wanted 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:22.599 to talk about them, but I couldn't figure out how 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.480 to get around two things, the first being the risk 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:31.360 of glamorizing outlawn. We're gonna talk about some poaching on 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.880 this podcast, but don't blame me if by the end 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:40.159 of this you find yourself endeared to these men. Deep 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.440 in the American psychees of fascination with people who push 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.600 against the system. You can't turn on a television without 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:51.280 hearing stories of law breakers. I didn't start this fire boys, 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.760 and though it's just under the surface, in many ways, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:00.920 Americans are deeply insecure people, and we're off been enamored 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.320 with people that have enough fortitude to stand against systems 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:10.600 of power. We glean identity from these outliers and aspired 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.360 to be like them, though the vast majority of us aren't. 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:19.680 We're society deeply fixated on obeying laws, and that's why 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.600 we like the guys that don't. Our law abiding fixation 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.160 is what has made America a successful nation of law 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.280 and order, which I like and so do you. In 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.920 the second part of this series, and yep, I said 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.880 this is gonna be a series, We're gonna dive deep 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:42.640 into history, human psychology, and talk with more law enforcement 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.919 guys to learn why we love outlaws like Doc Holiday 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.440 and Body and Clyde will learn while we've created endearing 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.040 fables like robin Hood and the Duke's of Hazard, the 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.240 answers blew my mind as the experts laid out a 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.360 clear roadmap to why we are the way we are. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.680 Their origins will shock you, and it might even have 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.640 something to do with Karl Marx. How's that for foreshadowing. 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:14.080 This is the voice of Neil Taylor, a longtime friend 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.200 of the Edwards brothers. This will give you a scope 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:22.240 of the operation these brothers had with turkey hunting. Well, 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.800 it was one year that Charlie and Louison had a 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.800 bet going on who could kill the most turkeys. Now 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.280 this was his was back when he pulled out there 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.680 in the woods and you had hooted, the only decision 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.520 you had to make was which gobler is gonna go after? 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.600 I mean, seeing eighty gobblers in the flock was quite common. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.600 They had a contest and I may be a couple 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.720 of birds off one way or another, but I'm I'm 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.280 right there. And these turkeys what nambush that they was 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.080 called up and killed? I think Louis kill thirty six. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.200 I think Charlie kill. He was either thirty two or 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:08.680 thirty four. Was either twenty six or that was all 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:12.640 in one season their best year. But mind you, they 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:17.040 did this for decades. The seasonal numbers vary with who 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.480 you talked to in the community, but undoubtedly in their 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.920 prime and when turkey populations were extremely good, Louis Dell 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.000 and Charlie killed more turkeys in a season than the 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:32.440 average turkey hunter would in a lifetime. Though they didn't 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.480 play by the rules that everybody else had to play by. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.280 Lodell was a you know, he was I never got 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:41.920 In fact, I never went turkey Hume would double one 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.040 time in my life, but he was. He was about 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.280 as good on slate calls. He might have heard how 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.160 you knew how to work one? And it was obviously killed. 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.400 They killed as many turkey as anybody in the world. 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.200 That was Andy Brown, and that's a big statement, as 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.199 many turkeys as anybody in the world. But having known 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.400 these guys my whole life, and my own dad having 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.920 hunted with him one time, you'll hear about that episode two. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:14.160 I stand by Andy's statement, though it's only conjecture. I 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.640 want to tell you my second hesitation in telling the story. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.280 Remember I said there were two and it's a result 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.640 of growing up in a tight knit community. I didn't 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.640 read these stories. I knew these men and their families, 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.679 which are still here. I didn't want to tarnish the 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.760 reputation of the family by broadcasting their story on a 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.959 national platform. But the Edwards boys themselves didn't seem to 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.400 care much about that, and I decided the way i'd 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.679 remedy the situation was go directly to the family and 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.840 get their blessing to tell the story, which I did. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.760 Little did I know what I was getting into. Here's 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.679 Mr Jimmy Gay Morden giving us a headstart and nugget 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.880 on understand ending the Edwards and the context of their story. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.560 When did you start with the Arkansas game and fish 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:13.400 started back in uh about the first five years, it 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.760 was like the wild West, as far as as turkey poaching, 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.640 deer poaching, the night hunting net and fish on the 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.080 Washing Tall River. It was like it's like the wild 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.520 wild West that we still had the old time poachers. 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.640 I was initially assigned to Montgomery Kenny, and then I 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:33.400 moved back to Polke Kenny. I think it was in 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:38.160 nineteen They are old time poachers. They grew up in 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.040 hard times. Most of them did the ones that I 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:47.319 ran across, the hardcore netters that used nets in the 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.360 rivers and on the lakes, a hard time night hunters 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.559 for dere, you know, the bad Polk turkey poachers and 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.439 the bad daytime deer hunters. They were all from old 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.040 times when times was tough, was hard to come by, 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:07.000 and outlaw was just away alive. Most of the old hard, hard, 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:14.839 hardcore poachers came from Moonshiner family. Old time poachers and moonshiners, 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.000 remember those two things. The first family member that I 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.520 went to when I got permission was Stony Edwards, the 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.880 son of Charlie. I drove out to the Big Fort 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.720 community and found him at the Big Fort Mall, which 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.719 is a small gas station that he and his wife run. 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.040 I told him I wanted to tell the whole story 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.800 his dad and uncle, and he agreed. He began by 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.040 showing me a story from nineteen six. That's an interesting 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:50.040 puzzle piece. Tragedy literally struck the Edwards family. I'm reading 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:54.480 from a laminated newspaper clipping bound in a three ring binder. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.839 So this is nineteen six, and it says officers shoot 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:04.520 Carl Edward right in Polk County. Carl Edwards was killed 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.440 in Montgomery County Sunday afternoon by a bullet fired by 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.839 some member of a posse that had just arrested two 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.599 alleged mood shotters, and probably we're searching for more or 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.520 for anyone connected with the illicit traffic. Edwards, twenty three old, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.160 resident of Heath Valley, which is right where we're at 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.439 in Polk County, was shot and instantly killed as he 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.280 drove his forward car homeward from a hunting trip in 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.679 Montgomery County. A single bullet fired by one of the 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.679 posse of six officers is said to have wounded Edwards brother, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.680 killed a dog, and then given Carl Edwards immortal wound 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.720 as he sat at the steering wheel. The tragedy occurred 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.199 in the Government Road between Big Fork and Norman. So 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.800 who was Carl Edwards? To you? He would have been 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.199 my dad's uncle, Okay, my grandfather's brother. So what were 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.079 they doing? They were trying to get away from no 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.280 In all actuality, Uncle Aandy was only I think he 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.760 was only like ten. They had been coon hunting. They 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.559 had coon dog in the car and Uncle Andy was 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.079 in the car and they were coming back and the 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.319 officers hollered for him to stop, and Karl Hollard, I 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.520 will at the bottom of the hill. Car didn't have 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:18.400 any breaks. But you gotta take the previous history into 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.880 account because they've been trying to catch him for years 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.200 and hadn't been able to so when he didn't stop 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.080 on command, they opened fire. And of course this ad 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.760 came from the newspaper, which I'm gonna say his bias 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.959 towards law enforcement at the time, it wasn't a because 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.880 those men loaded my uncle up, drove him to my 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.080 great grandparents house and dropped him on the porch when 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.040 he was shot dead. Yeah, they left him dead on 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.559 the front porch. Uncle Andy was shot through the ear. 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.360 He was ten years old. He was shot through the ear, 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.800 and of course it killed and his son in the 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.360 car with a coon dog. No, it was too brothers, 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.680 two brothers. Yeah, they were thirteen years apart. Oh, I see, 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.079 I see. And the coon dog in the car and 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.599 was a coon dog. Okay, no kill, kill kill. The 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.800 dog killed. The dog killed Carl and wounded and so 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.440 so Carl was a known moonshiner and they'd been trying 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.640 to catch him. Well, you gotta consider his dad went 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:25.200 to Leavenworth Prison for moonshine, and so basically the whole 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.280 family was in the business. There's no way around it. Yeah. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.520 My great grandfather had seven sons and they all lived 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.680 out here in the valley. Yeah, right over there where 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.840 I live now. We're still on the original Edwards home place. 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.720 The whole family was quote in the business of moonshining, 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.880 and the killing of Carl Edwards and his coon dog 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.960 in nineteen twenty six was a tough pill for the 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.040 family to swallow, and Uncle Andy, who was just a 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.920 child at the time, had a partly shot off ear 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.600 his whole life. A week after the shooting, the six 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:08.240 officers involved would be charged with murder. Carl Edwards was 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.040 Louis del and Charlie's uncle, though he died before they 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:17.000 were ever born. This is another newspaper clipping. Charges of 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.760 murder have been made against six officers who were in 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.360 the posse that caused the death of Carl Edwards in 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:26.520 Montgomery County last Sunday afternoon. The six were Sheriff George 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.960 how It names all their names. Ruben Edwards, a brother 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.360 of the man killed, was in Mina Tuesday and stated 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.120 that the accused officers had been summoned to court. I 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.320 just wanted to say this was a murder case, and 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.120 I mean that in and of itself could lead to 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.920 a family having some bad taste in their mouth for 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.880 the law. If it hadn't have been for Rube at 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.600 that time, the other brothers would have killed all six officers. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.280 Rube stopped it and said that it would go to court. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.880 Would be better off taking them to court and killing them. 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.680 But the brothers would have killed them. And they're lucky 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:08.120 that they did. In later on, Lucky is probably a 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.800 good descriptor, because all six officers would be acquitted of 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.960 the murdered charges they got off. None of them were convicted, 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.920 nor was there any recompense for the coon dog. This 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.800 isn't the best way to gain the trust of the 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.920 government's law men. We've learned an important component of the 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.720 Edwards story. Mr Jimmy tipped us off to it. They 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.960 were moonshiners. And let me tell you that stuff doesn't 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.880 die easy. Have you ever heard of a community whiskey? 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:44.080 Still the plot thickens. There were he uh, Davis's, Edwards's, 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:48.840 and Putman's all lived in that area. In there, and 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.840 all of them were the stills. Name was Old Jesus. Okay. 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.920 The way Dad explained it was when you took a 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.280 sip of that, that was the first thing out of 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:04.320 your mouth, was Old Jesus. That. Yeah, but it would 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:06.680 run off a hundred gallons of mash at a time, 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:08.800 so it was a big still. It was huge. Yeah. 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:14.720 I mean they were the multiple families using in cahoots, 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.720 using this one put their stuff together to make make 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.800 the whiskey, get it to market, get it. Once they 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.280 got it sold, then they had split the money accordingly 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.199 among the families, and that was their living I mean, 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.320 that was their cash money. So all their fields and 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:34.400 stuff was planted in corn, and the corn was used 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.520 to feed animals and to make whiskey. That was their 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.359 easiest way to get it to market. You know, this 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:44.639 isn't a giant agricultural area. So people did what they 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:49.280 had to do. People did what they had to do. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.800 That's an important phrase to remember if you're studying the 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:57.280 actions of humans. The ideologies and character developed when living 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.880 under pressure are hard things to get rid of, even 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.200 with the passing of time and the pressure. Carl Edwards 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.080 was killed nineteen six and Stoney's great grandfather went to 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.720 Leavenworth Prison in Kansas before that for moonshine during the 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:18.080 Prohibition era. But the Edwards history goes even deeper. We're 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.119 laying a foundation to understand Louis Dell and Charlie Edwards. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.840 People just show up on the earth, but they're always 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:33.639 connected to something behind them, for better or worse. The 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.840 Edwards family came here in eighty three. I think that 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.720 we actually settled here. This entire community was settled from 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.360 one wagon train that came from Georgia to right here. 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:46.840 And I guess in a way you could put it 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.920 up kind of like a mafia family, you know well, 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.560 and and they took care of each other, you know, 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.760 all the families around. It wasn't like it is today 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:01.040 that you know, there's people were really connected there. They're neighborhoods. Well, 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.359 you had to have other people to survive. I mean 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.000 that you have strong allies to survive. Yeah. Nowadays everybody 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.159 gets up and goes to work. There's people that live 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.760 in neighborhoods that don't know who lived two houses down. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.680 They've never met them, never talked to them, never in 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.080 some cases, never seen them. These people lived and worked 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.120 together day in and day out for the same goal. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.480 And I think that built stronger ties to the community. 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.000 Is it easy for you to look back at that 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:31.360 history and see your dad and your uncle Louis dell 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.240 On the way they were and connected back to those times. 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.600 I mean, it's it's like not a very far jump, 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:42.320 is it. No, they retained their youth until they died. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.040 The way they were brought up, that was the way 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.879 they lived. I mean right up until then. You know, 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:53.560 strong work ethic. They weren't real religious men. They believed 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.199 in God. Believe me, Uncle wyd El. When we were 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.240 at the hunting cabin one time and my uncle never 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.159 never okay, got a whole lot, but he'd come in 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.119 from turkey hunting that morning and he said, there's no 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.639 ways a man can sit up there whereas that this 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.040 morning and not know that there's not a higher power. 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.520 They had their own, their own moral compass. It's right 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.040 and it's wrong, and there ain't no in between, and 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.240 there wasn't no change in it. Where did that come from? 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.840 Was their dad like that? Like your grandfather exactly like that? 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.440 And I'm and I never met my great grandfather, but 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.440 I'm positive that he was that way. You take a 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.880 man that raised seven sons on the landing here, he's 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.800 got to be a pretty strong feller first of all, 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.000 to put up with seven sons. I've got three, and 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.199 I wanted to kill him. My grandfather he worked at 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.600 the pollard in town. He only My grandpa only had 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.080 one hand. He lost it to an axe, got it 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.560 chopped off when it was an axe when he was eighteen, 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.760 and they were splitting stave bolts. But he had went 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.080 to wipe a chopping block off, knocked the chips off, 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:03.879 and the other guy wasn't paying attention and thought he 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.920 had set another deal up there and took it off 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:12.399 of the knacks. It seems the Edward family has been 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:17.400 sculpted by hardship and they were outliers with an unusually 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:22.879 distinct value system. Here's Neil Taylor describing Louis Dell and 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:28.800 Charlie m M. Two boys. Some people ignorantly may disagree 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.320 with me, but they had their own set of morals 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.040 and principles. Now they may not have been mine principles 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.560 or your principles, but they was there and they pretty 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:42.879 much lived by you know, even if they didn't like 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.160 you if they come across you and you needed help, 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.800 they'd help you. Now everybody knows that they was turkey 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:54.560 murdering son of a guns. You know they was probably 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.679 they are undoubtedly the best turkey hunters in this country 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:03.000 and probably any other country in the United States. You know, 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:06.040 they fed their families. That's the way they was raised 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.960 up in their grandparents. You know, has poor people back 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:13.320 in times of the Depression and even further back than that, 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:16.920 it was a way of life that you had to 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:19.680 back in the day, you had to do what you 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:24.560 had to do to survive. I heard this consistently. The 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.720 Edwards brothers had a moral code that they stuck with 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.480 no matter what. Here's the game more than Jimmy Martin 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:36.359 revealing an interesting dynamic of this story and talking about 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:40.119 the brothers as kids. Interesting point. You grew up with 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:42.560 Louis Dell and Charlie. Yes they were. They were about 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.359 five years older than I was and then kind of 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.600 like big brothers. And I don't mean that. You know, 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:52.360 if if if my mother was violating game fish regulational law, 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:54.480 I'm gonna write a ticket. It doesn't matter if I 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:57.040 grew up with Louis Edwards or Charlie or not. That's 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.920 just the way I work. And they knew that. The 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.639 brotherhood or whatever we had growing up as kids, that 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:06.399 went out the window when I got my job, and 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.520 they expected it and they wouldn't want anything else but that. 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:14.160 What were they like as as kids? Just just wild crazy? 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:16.439 You know, we we all were back there. I mean, 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:18.359 what do we have for entertainment? But out here in 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:20.480 the woods. Was out here in the woods now that 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.479 there's people, But when I was growing up, things were 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:26.520 just different. Back then. You rode rode a horse, I 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:30.320 had horses. You might take off from the house and 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.560 be gone for two days and your parents never They 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:34.760 weren't worried about it because they knew you was okay 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:37.359 out there in the woods. It wasn't nothing to ride 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.360 from here to Big Fort all over those mountains. Back there, 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:46.080 times were different. This is another statement I consistently heard 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:48.960 when talking about the brothers. But they had a unique 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:53.320 way of making time linger. You heard Andy Brown on 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.880 the last podcast telling a turkey story about when Doc 0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:01.080 Robern wrenched up under a log to grab a turkey. Well, 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:06.159 Andy knew the Edwards brothers. Well, here he'll begin to 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.960 give us an introduction to the brothers the first time 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.680 he ever met him, the first time I ever met Ludelle. 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:16.239 In fact, I knew his dad mag before I ever 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.640 knew Ludelle. It made me a little stint out west 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.160 back in the late seventies, and was out there about 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:25.080 three years, and I moved back here in that teen 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:28.720 eighty and when I did, Um and my brother in 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:32.639 law we liked to hunt. And one fall we were 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:36.240 east at Big fourk we were hunting, and uh Loudell, 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:38.680 he was dog man. He loved run his dogs. And 0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.520 in those days, October one, that's when the dogs got 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:43.280 turned loose. That's just the way it was. I mean, 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:48.200 it was that's that was That's just what happened. The 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:52.840 implication is that on October one it wasn't legal to 0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.320 run dogs or hunt deer. But anyway, Doug and I 0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:59.720 it was middle October, turkey season was open, and I 0:24:59.880 --> 0:25:03.480 was eat up with fall turkey hunting. And anyway, I 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:05.399 got out there and got a little bunch of young 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:07.440 turkeys and got him busted up and call one back 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:08.960