1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. In recent years it 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: has become clear that there's a war going on, a 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: war on the West. This is not like earlier wars 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: where armies clash and victors are declared. It is a 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: cultural war, and it has been waged remorselessly against all 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: the roots of the Western tradition and against everything good 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: that the Western tradition is produced. That is a quote 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: from the opening lines of very very important new book, 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: The War on the West. Here to discuss his new book, 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: I am really pleased to welcome my guest, Douglas Murray. 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: He is the associate editor of The Spectator. The War 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: on the West is his third book. His last book, 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: The Madness of Crows, which we did a podcast about, 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: was a bestseller and book of the Year for The 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: Times and The Sunday Times. His previous book, The Strange 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: Death of Europe Immigration Identity Islam, was published by Bloomsbury 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: and May twenty seventeen. It spent almost twenty weeks on 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: the Sunday Times bestseller list and was a number one 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: bestseller in nonfiction. Douglas, thank you for joining me again 20 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: in the Newts World. You know, the last time when 21 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: you're on. In July of twenty twenty, when we talked 22 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: about your last book, The Madness of Crowds, I thoroughly 23 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: enjoyed you and I thoroughly enjoyed your book, so I'm 24 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 1: really delighted to have you back. Well, it's a great pleasure, 25 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: thank you, and I much enjoyed our last conversation too, 26 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: and I'm really looking forward to getting into this today. 27 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: And before we get to the book, I cannot help 28 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: in the American tradition of being as transient and momentary 29 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: as possible, but ask you about your recent New Year's 30 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: Post article quote, Dear Elon, here are five things you 31 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: can do to make Twitter better from April fourteen, And 32 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious what are your thoughts about Elon must buying 33 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: Twitter for forty three billion dollars in cash and then 34 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: the lefts, you know, over the top reaction to it. 35 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: It's a fascinating move because there's already been a change 36 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: at Twitter because of it. I don't know if you've 37 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: followed this closely, but even in the days since the 38 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: success of the bid was announced, things have changed on 39 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: the platform, so conservatives have and the New York Post 40 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: ran this is a front page a day. We're speaking 41 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: conservatives of notice and served to publication an enormous upswing 42 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: in their followers. Now this was originally said, what maybe 43 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: people are simply coming back to the platform. No, no, no, 44 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: what's already happened is that the dark arts of Twitter 45 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: are being undone. The staff at Twitter know that when 46 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: the company is handed over Elon Musk will have total 47 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: oversight of all the tricks that they've been up to 48 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: in recent years. They attempt to silence conservative voices, to 49 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: dampen conservative publications, so that even the oldest newspaper in America, 50 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: the New York Posts, can be dampened, as we know, 51 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: at one point, but then they pretend it isn't dampened, 52 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: it isn't silence, and it is the whole time they've 53 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: been playing this incredibly unfair game against conservatives, and even 54 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: the knowledge that everything is about to change has meant 55 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: that things have already started to change at Twitter. Elon 56 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: Musk is not a right winger particularly, you know, he's 57 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: a libertarian tech guy. But the way in which the 58 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: left has responded his buying of Twitter shows the problems 59 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: of the left. You know, the fact that people like 60 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: Joy Reid have basically said it's like Hitler taking over 61 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: Nazi Germany. They have gone due Alley over this, and 62 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: the one thing I would say is that maybe they're 63 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: right to go do Laley over it, because they have 64 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: been used to left to having all the tech platforms 65 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: on their sides and being used to do whatever they 66 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: want and play their nasty games of silencing people in 67 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: shadow banning people and so on. Well, if that were 68 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: to change, the public square would be not just a 69 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: better place for conservatives, it would be a better place 70 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: in general, because we would know the fairness of the terrain. 71 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: So I think it's a terrific move. I really hope 72 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: that more good will come from it, but I have 73 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: already personally felt the difference. I think we've picked up 74 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: twenty four thousand new followers in a couple of days, really, 75 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: and it's fascinating because it was so outrageous. They helped 76 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: distort the general direction of history by the ruthlessness of 77 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: what they were doing. Particularly I think in October of 78 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: two thousand, twenty oh. Yeah, that was one of the 79 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: most serious abuses of the press, I think in our lifetimes. 80 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: An extraordinary thing that a tech platform could silence a newspaper. 81 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: But yes, very interesting. You've experienced the same thing that 82 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: I have. In that case, I think that a lot 83 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: of the derangement that has gone on in American life 84 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,679 Speaker 1: and the wide of West in recent years is because 85 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: these tech platforms have been playing games with us that 86 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: we didn't know for sure that they were playing. Some 87 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: of the historians will go back and look at it 88 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: in much greater detail, but you happen to end up 89 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: with extraordinarily democratized in an opening up systems being controlled 90 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: by people who were so radically alienated from the society 91 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: at large that they use the instruments in order to 92 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: try to impose on the rest of us a set 93 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: of values. And I'm running a program called the American 94 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: Majority Project. We go through and we find over and 95 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: over and over again that the people on the left 96 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: are extraordinary minority who have manipulated the commanding heights and 97 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: Marks's firm to try to dominate. Well, let me ask you, 98 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: because in a sense, I see this book The War 99 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: in the West as the third in an evolutionary series, 100 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: and I wonder if you could take just a minute 101 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: and share with us first about the strange death of 102 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: Europe and then The Madness of Crows, and how these 103 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,239 Speaker 1: two in a sense set the stage for your new book, 104 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: The War on the West. Yes, that's right. I do 105 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: see it as a third and a trilogy effectively. My 106 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen book The Strangers of Europe Immigration Identity in 107 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: Islam was really about the migration crisis that Europe was 108 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: undergoing at that point, but it was really about the 109 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: wider question of migration in the twenty first century. Many 110 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: American readers and Australian readers and Canadian readers and others said, 111 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: you know, this is about Europe mainly, but it's really 112 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: about us as well, isn't it. I always said absolutely, 113 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: it was about this great conundrum we have which very 114 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: few politicians, as you know new or thinkers are willing 115 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: to consider. But this very good question of what happens 116 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: in the twenty first century where travel has never been easier, 117 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: knowledge of other places has never been greater, communications have 118 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: never been easier, and you have billions of people in 119 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: the developing world who would like to move to the 120 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: developed world. What does the developed world do in that situation. Well, 121 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: one of the things, as I say in the strange 122 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: depth of Europe is that the developed world can risk 123 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: carrying out a form of cultural suicide to basically decide 124 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: that it is the convening point for the world and 125 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: therefore not anything of itself, nothing of its own, the 126 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: sort of United Nations should we say? So I confronted that, 127 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: and migration, as you know, is one of the very 128 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: hardest issues and in a way one of the most 129 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: dangerous ones. Nobody really wants to talk about migration properly 130 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: because it's so complex. You know, the millions of people 131 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: who want to come to America from Central and Southern 132 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: America totally understandable. Can they all come? Obviously not, and 133 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: we struggle with it. After dealing with this very difficult issue, 134 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: I thought, well, I've dealt with the issue of immigration 135 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: as deeply as I can and I'm still here, which 136 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't particularly expecting. I thought that I was going 137 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: to be so completely destroyed reputationally for daring to ask 138 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: the questions and answer the questions that I did, And 139 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: so I thought, well, I'm still here. Yeah, of course 140 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: I was defamed by the Left and much more, but 141 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: it didn't matter to me. I survived. So I thought, well, 142 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to look at all of the other difficult 143 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: issues that are going on in our time. And I 144 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: did that with the Madness of Crowds, all the things 145 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: that people don't really like to think about or talk 146 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: about in any depth or with any desire to reach conclusions. 147 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: I looked at sex and sexuality and minority rights and 148 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: race and trans issue them. But I did the same thing. 149 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: I said, I want you to trust me that I'm 150 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: leading you fairly through very tricky terrain to try to 151 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: get to truths, which is, you know what's lost in 152 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: every days to and fro and in this twittering world. 153 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: As T. S. Eliot said before his time, and I 154 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: said in The Manners of Crowds, though, that something was 155 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: going on, something deep was going on in our societies, 156 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: and I was trying to put my finger on it. 157 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: In that book, there seemed to be a replacement ethic 158 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: in our societies. Once there had been one ethic, now 159 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: there was a different one. And the different ethic had 160 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: become everything was about minorities. The most oppressed person, somehow 161 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: was the most correct person. The person most deserving of 162 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: the microphone was not the person who knew the most, 163 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: but the person who could say they'd suffered the most, 164 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: and this had become an ethic. I'd noticed that really 165 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: moved into American life and as the wider West than life. 166 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: But I still felt I wasn't quite at the root 167 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 1: of it. And then in recent years, particularly since twenty twenty, 168 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: I realized, ah, I know what it is. I see 169 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: what it is now, and that's what this book is about. 170 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: It's the realization that what is going on is no 171 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: less than a war on the West, a war on 172 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: the Western traditions. It starts, as you know, with a 173 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: war on the peoples of the West, a claim that 174 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: white people are uniquely guilty, or uniquely awful, or uniquely 175 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: historically bad. It continues with the war on our history, 176 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: so that all of our heroes are pulled down one 177 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: by one. Everything that was good in our past is 178 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,359 Speaker 1: looked through the lens only of racism and slavery and colonialism. 179 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: And then there's a war on everything to do with 180 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: our religious inheritance that you do, a Christian religion, but 181 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: also the secular traditions that Marraca and other countries have 182 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: benefited from. And then finally the war on everything to 183 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: do with our culture, so that nothing good and beautiful 184 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: that has come from our civilization is allowed to survive 185 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: without also being seen through this negative, negative lens. So this, 186 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: I believe is the underlying thing going on in our time, 187 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: the anti westernism that means we like everything so long 188 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: as it's not our own, We admire everything so long 189 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: as we didn't produce it ourselves. It is a process, 190 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: as late Vo Discriutin called it, a self abnegation, stripping 191 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: away of all of the things that we've inherited and 192 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: the replacement of it by well, that's to be seen. 193 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: The thing I'm struck by from my perspective is that 194 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: this is almost a religious war. That you have a 195 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: secular religion that has a compulsion to kill its competitor, 196 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: and that there's a ferocity on the left that gets 197 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: down to words. I thought it was very striking when 198 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: the nominee to be Supreme Court Justice Jackson Brown, when 199 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: asked about how she would define a woman, said not 200 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: in this context. I'm not a biologist. Now, she clearly 201 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: was dancing on the head of a pen because she 202 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: couldn't afford to alienate the Left, and she couldn't afford 203 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: to be honest with everybody else. That's right, absolutely, absolutely 204 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: classic thing. We have this ridiculous public debate where people 205 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: like Dustin Jackson pretend that you have to be a 206 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: hyper specialist to know something that everybody knows. You know, 207 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: I'm not a biologist. Well you know, I'm not a vet, 208 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: but I know what a cat is. You know, this 209 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: idea that you can dodge questions like this by these 210 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: silly dodges, these silly games, these pretenses that you need 211 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: to be a hyper specialist. It's an attempt to make 212 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: things that are self evident becomes so complex and effectively 213 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: we can't say them right. And in fact, one of 214 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: the things I've most fascinated with that I've thought about 215 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: writing a newsletter because I do three a week. They 216 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: go up from English research. They've thought about writing one 217 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: on Birthing People's Day to replace Mother's Day, because the 218 00:12:54,200 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: Bidendministration actually uses the term birthing people and it's budget docket. Unbelievable. 219 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: It's deranging and dementing, really, isn't it. The idea that 220 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: we don't know what men are and the women are, 221 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: and that just because there's a small number of people 222 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: who are confused, therefore we do away with even the 223 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: truth of the existence of biological sex It's all part 224 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: of it, you know, And I tackled that in the 225 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: manness of crowds. It worried me deeply that we were 226 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: premitting this to go on. But what I described in 227 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: the War in the West is in some ways even worse, 228 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: because this same dementing thing is now happening, not just 229 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: to the existence of the sexes, but everything in our 230 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: own past. Do you know my own country of birth, 231 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: great Britain, Our greatest hero is Winston Churchill. Almost without 232 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: doubt that twenty years ago when there was a poll 233 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: of the BBC's to try to find out who the 234 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: British people thought was the greatest Britain we voted for 235 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: Winston Churchill by a landslide, not just because of course 236 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: of his stance and the Second World War and the 237 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: fact that he for a time led Britain as we 238 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: stood alone against Nutzi Germany, and had it not Winston Churchill, 239 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: perhaps all of Europe would have fallen to Nazism. We 240 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: didn't just admire him for that, We admired him for 241 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: so much and the fact that our parents and grandparents' 242 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: generation were encouraged through the war and managed through their 243 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: suffering because of this great man as leadership. Today, Winston 244 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: Churchill's reputation is being trashed on a daily basis. When 245 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: the BLM protests broke out in London in the summer 246 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, in imitation of what happened in the 247 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: United States, Churchill's statue in Westminster had to be covered 248 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: over because it was assaulted so often. And I looked 249 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: at that, and I thought, why would they come for 250 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: Winston Churchill? And then I looked at America and I 251 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: saw exactly the same thing happening here. Just last year, 252 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: as you know, in New York City's council chamber, boxed up, 253 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: pulled down, and wheeled out on a crate the statue 254 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: of Thomas Jefferson that had stood there since the eighteen thirties. 255 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: Why was Jefferson removed because, as a member of the 256 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: New York City Council said, Thomas Jefferson no longer represents 257 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: our values. Every single figure in American history has been 258 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: treated like Winston Churchill has been treated in Britain. Our 259 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: great heroes are being pulled down before our eyes. Abraham 260 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: Lincoln's statue was pulled down in Portland by a mob 261 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: when I was there a couple of years ago. But 262 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: then shortly afterwards you didn't need the mob because the 263 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: local authorities in Boston removed the statue of Lincoln in 264 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: Boston because of the offense that it could cause. If 265 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: you don't have Winston Churchill, you don't really have Britain. 266 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: And if you don't have the founding Fathers and Abraham 267 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: Lincoln and all the other great men and women of 268 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: American history to look up to, you don't really have America. 269 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: And that, I believe is the point. Their target selection 270 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: or anti westernists, their target selection is disgusting but admirable 271 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: in a way. They know exactly what they're doing. What 272 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: do you think utamately drives and motivates this level of 273 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: hatred for the worst is a number of things. One 274 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: of them, of course, is the simple complexity of living 275 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: in highly diverse societies. There is what I describe as 276 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: a form of courtesy that ends up happening we all 277 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: know into the late Lord Clark of Civilization. Kenneth Clark 278 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: said at the end of his famous nineteen sixties series 279 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: Civilization that to him, civilization could be summed up in 280 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: the word courtesy, and I was always very struck by this. 281 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: And courtesy is a very important aspect in life, but 282 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: it isn't everything. And the West has been waited to 283 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: be courteous about things. So, for instance, we are used 284 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: to the idea that we don't say we're better than 285 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: other people. We don't say that our tradition is better 286 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: than other people. Remember thirty or forty years ago, Saul Bellow, 287 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: the great American novelists, got into some trouble when he 288 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: said he wondered where the African Tolstoy or Proost was, 289 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: and people said this was a very racist thing to say. Now, 290 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: of course, there are answers to that, which is to 291 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,479 Speaker 1: say they are Tolstoy and Proost. You know, these are 292 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: people who belong to everyone. But the point that Saul 293 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: Bello was trying to make was a serious one in 294 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: a way, which is, are you allowed to say that 295 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: a particular literature is just greater? Are you allowed to 296 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: say the particular political tradition is just greater? And in 297 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: our own time we've sort of decided that we shouldn't. 298 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: It's discourteous. And then what happens is you actually lose 299 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: track of your own tradition, your own argument. We now 300 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: in America have I say we because I live here. Now, 301 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: we in America have a problem, which is you would 302 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: have thought would only occurred in the humanities, which was 303 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: the pretense basically that everything was completely relative. Well, I 304 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: thought that that would be a thing that stuck with 305 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: the humanities, But no, it flooded through the stems subjects 306 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: as well. We now have equitable maths being discussed in 307 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: American schools, which is because mathematics is Western and racist 308 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: and created by dead white men. And everything created by 309 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: dead white men must be attacked. So science and the 310 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: scientific method and rationalism must be attacked because it's all 311 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: the product, apparently of dead white men. Every single thing 312 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: has been looked at through this remorseless lens. And the 313 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: fact is is that the peoples of the West have 314 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: put up with it because we've been courteous. We didn't 315 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: want to say what we needed to say, But what 316 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: we needed to say was the Western system of For instance, 317 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: free market economics has not triumphed because it was invented 318 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: by white men. It's triumphed because it works best. Similarly, 319 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: the Western system of democracy may have been come up 320 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: with by white men. But that's not why it's great. 321 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: It's great because it works best now. It's the same 322 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: with a scientific method. It's the same with mathematics, which 323 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: actually people have all sorts of backgrounds contributed to, but 324 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: which was refined in the West. It's the same with 325 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: the Western tradition of culture, the Western tradition of music. Notation. 326 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: These things work not because they were created by white men, 327 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: but because they work. And because we have this war 328 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: on white people and dead white people in particular, all 329 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: of this that I've just said has been made effectively 330 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: impossible to say, and so we've had too as a culture, 331 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: first of all, be courteous and then end up just 332 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: simply agreeing to lies. I think that's an important part 333 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: of this. Much of what the left says is just 334 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: a why, and you actually have to train people to 335 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: be prepared to stand and say no, yes exactly, it's 336 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: not true. It's not a question of being debatable, it's 337 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: not true, yes exactly exactly, and very few people, I'm 338 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: afraid you'd have the courage to do that today. You 339 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: see in the history chapter in the War on the West, 340 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: I go into this, I say, how many people really 341 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: are confident of their history enough in America to say 342 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: that's not true. You see, when I first looked at 343 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: the sixteen nineteen project, which again and not the stuff 344 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm describing in the War on the West is fringe. 345 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's all come right to the center. When 346 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: I describe the sixteen nineteen project in the War on 347 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: the West and I go into it, I lay out 348 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: all of the flaws, just at all. Some of the flaws, 349 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: all of the floors, would require a multi volume book. 350 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: But I describe some of the flaws in the project, 351 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: and they are absolutely appalling their schoolgirl, they should part 352 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: for anything else. The mistakes unbelievable, the lies are reprehensible. 353 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: But how many Americans actually feel confident enough now to 354 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: push back? You see, it's like the sex thing we 355 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: described earlier, about the gender assigned at birth, birthing people, etc. 356 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm not a biologist. It's the same thing has been 357 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: done to us all about our history. We've been made unconfident, 358 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: We've been made to believe that the situation is other 359 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: than it was. And well, I don't know. I'm not 360 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: a historian. Sure I'll go along with whatever the New 361 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: York Times has decided we're all meant to be re 362 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: educated with now. This is a massive problem in America. 363 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: It's almost as though we've not just lost our confidence, 364 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: we've lost our story. And one of the things I 365 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: want readers to get from my book is I want 366 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: them to get their story back. I want us in 367 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: the West to get our story back. There's no reason 368 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: to throw it away. There's no reason to be ignorant 369 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: of it. There's no reason that had faith actors like 370 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: the people who wrote the sixteen nineteen Project and many others, 371 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: should get away with completely reframing American history or Western history, 372 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: or pretending our history is only about slavery and colonialism 373 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: and racism, or pretending that because racism was a part 374 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: of our history, it wasn't a part of our history, 375 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: but our whole history. This is what I want to 376 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: push back against, and this is what I think this 377 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: generation of Americans have a duty to do. You know, 378 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: American parents today have a duty when their children come 379 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: home from college to say to their children that they 380 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: are wrong when they replay the lies that they've been 381 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: taught at college. And equally, college aged students need to 382 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: be educated to know what to say to their professors, 383 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: when their professors lie to them, when people say, as 384 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: they say from the New York Times up or down, However, 385 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: you'd like to see it that this country of America, 386 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: it has a founding sin, a unique sin, in slavery. 387 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: I want people to know, as I lay out in 388 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: the book, that slavery was something which is completely abhorrent. 389 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: But every civilization in history engaged in America. Didn't engage 390 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: in slavery because America was especially wicked. It engaged in 391 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: it because in the time that America came about, everybody 392 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: was doing it. Should people in the seventeenth century and 393 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: eighteenth century have known what we know now, Yes, but 394 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: they didn't. They couldn't have done. It would have been 395 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: lovely if they had have done, but they didn't know 396 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: what we know now. I mean, I say, at one 397 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: point in the book, I give example of the way 398 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: in which Thomas Jefferson has been horribly maligned in recent years, 399 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: and specifically actually by the absolutely appalling race huckster who 400 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: calls himself Ibram X Kendy, who sold this very very 401 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: popular selling book called How to Be an Anti Racist, 402 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: which I say just should have the anti taken out 403 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: of the title, it's a deeply racist book about white people. Anyhow, 404 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: Hendy in his book says the most terrible thing about 405 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson misquoting Thomas Jefferson. This is the thing that 406 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: he misquote a private letter of Thomas Jefferson in which 407 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: Jefferson makes the observation that the races are different. Now, 408 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: Ibram X Kendy says, this is evidence that Jefferson was 409 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: a racist. Read the actual letter and see what Jefferson 410 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: himself says. And I'm going to summarize, but he says 411 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: to his friend, I don't know whether the races are 412 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: the same. I do know he says that if you 413 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: look at the Native of Americans, he says, they seem to, 414 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: after a generation or ser of education, be exactly like 415 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: the white man. And I don't know what the situation 416 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: will be with blacks in America, but I suspect that 417 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: if the same education happens in a couple of generations, 418 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: it will be the same thing. In other words, this 419 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: was a very forward looking point to be making in 420 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: the early eighteen hundreds. Now, what is it that we 421 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: know now that Thomas Jefferson didn't. In Thomas Jefferson's day, 422 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: nobody knew whether the human and races were even related. 423 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: There was a significant debate that was not solved until 424 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: a century later, which were all of the different races 425 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: of the world from the same stock or not? And 426 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: nobody knew, and a lot of people fought, actually, we're not, 427 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: We're totally different species. Nobody knew because the science wasn't in, 428 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: the knowledge wasn't in, the DNA wasn't in, and so 429 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: people like Thomas Jefferson get misrepresented, presented as horrible human 430 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: beings by these details like this that frankly, American parents 431 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: and American students need to know about, because, as I say, 432 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: we need our heroes back. We need them back. America 433 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: without our heroes, that our founding fathers, without Lincoln, without 434 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: the great men and women who built this country. Without them, 435 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: America is nothing. And that is precisely what the anti 436 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: Westernists of our day are aspiring to. They want to 437 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: make America nothing. That recently did a podcast with Dennis Cregy, 438 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: and he was making the point that rituals matter and 439 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 1: that if you really look at Judaism, it is in 440 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: fact thousands of years of very structured behavior, and that 441 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: it has held the Jewish people together through all sorts 442 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: of very difficult periods, and that when you start abolishing 443 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: the Pledge of Allegiance or the standing for the national anthem, 444 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: or celebrating the fourth of July as the national holiday, 445 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you are eroding the patterns and 446 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: the bonds that are at the core of aving together 447 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: a civilization. And I thought it was a very useful thing, 448 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: and a reminded me. I'm sure you're familiar with Daniel 449 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: Patrick moynahan's essay on defining deviancy down and the whole 450 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: notion that as more and more people do something disgusting, 451 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: we gradually try to mentally accommodate that that's okay, because 452 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: there are too many people for it not to be okay. 453 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: But it occurred to me that our generation may in 454 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: fact be faced with having to define deviancy upward and 455 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: saying no, this is not tolerable, and no we're not 456 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: going to accept this, and insisting on moving back up 457 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: to standards that in fact have historically worked. Well, that's right. Actually, 458 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: this is why you see sometimes people say, well, you know, 459 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: we need a leader who will lead us out of this. 460 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: And I myself am not optimistic. That is the route. 461 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: I believe, as you just said, this has to be 462 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: a bottom opsolution. I believe that we have seen that 463 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: begin in America in the last year. I describe the 464 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: way in which this critic race theory and other terrible 465 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: American ideas have been effectively exported not just across America 466 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: but across the Western world with terrible, terrible results. But 467 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that is so striking 468 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,719 Speaker 1: and inspiring to me is that it is American parents 469 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: who have stood up to this. You know, it wasn't, 470 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: in the end, a great academic debate that took place 471 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: at Berkeley, as if they would allow an academic debate 472 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: these days. It wasn't that, It wasn't actually a politician 473 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: even at the beginning. It was American patriots. It was 474 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: parents who went to their school board meetings and said, 475 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: I've now found out what you're teaching my child and 476 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: it is wrong. Now. That might sometimes be history, but 477 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: sometimes it is what I describe in the first chapter 478 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: of the War on the West, which is the war 479 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: on white people. Sometimes it is parents of all racial backgrounds, 480 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: but noticeably parents saying you are teaching my child to 481 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: be a racist. You are, in the name of anti racism, 482 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: spreading racism. They play this thought experiment in the book. 483 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: If you tell any person that, by dint of the 484 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: color of their skin they are born evil and guilty, 485 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: you are attaching electrode to that child's brain and frying it. Now, 486 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: that would be the case if you told a black child, 487 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: If you are so reprehensible that you told a black 488 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: child that because they are being born black, they were 489 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: born particularly evil and particularly guilty. There were people in 490 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: the past who did that, but we have a name 491 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: for them, and that's racists. Now today, in American schools, 492 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: there are still teachers and unions who allow the teaching 493 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: of the idea that white children are, by dint of 494 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: their skin color, born evil and racist. And American parents 495 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: must not put up with this. This too, is racist. 496 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: This is attaching electrode to the brains of children and 497 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: ruining their thinking processes. It is going to ruin their 498 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: moral lives, it's going to ruin their characters. We cannot 499 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: educate people into being free human beings who act well 500 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: in the world and do great things if we tell 501 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: them that from the birth they are weighed down with 502 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: this evil that was done centuries before, not even by 503 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: their ancestors, by people who might have looked like them. 504 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: You know, this is a great evil, as it is 505 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: American parents who have seized in their own hands the 506 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,719 Speaker 1: right to say no, you do not do that. So 507 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: I believe that although politicians have now come on board 508 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: with this, this is a reminder that the future of 509 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: the Republic, the future of the West, is in our hands, 510 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: all of our hands. We cannot outsource this job. This 511 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: job is for all of us. And that's why I 512 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: say I want the War on the West to be 513 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: read as widely as possible, because I want readers to 514 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: be armed with what they need to say, the deep 515 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: moral arguments and the specific arguments against the people who 516 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: want to destroy this society. In that context, let me say, 517 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: first of all, the American Majority Project, where we've been 518 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: looking for those issues which are so widely agreed upon 519 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: that you can use them to basically destroy the left credibility. 520 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: Eighty four percent of the American people believe that parents 521 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: have the right to know what is being taught their child, 522 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: what textbook is being taught, what videos are being shown them. 523 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,719 Speaker 1: When you get to eighty four percent, you're beginning to 524 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: have the kind of majorities that can stand up to 525 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: a militant minority and decisively defeated. And we have a 526 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: whole series of those things. I just wrote a series 527 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: of articles on creating an American majority, not a Republican majority, 528 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: the notion that there is actually a non left majority 529 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: that's massive but has had very inadequate leadership. Two other comments. 530 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: I just want to make one which I think he'll 531 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: just find interesting. I have on my wall in my 532 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: office a sheet of paper which was a law poster 533 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: that was done at home by hand, was given to 534 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: me by the Union Solidarity in Poland when Kaliston I 535 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: made a movie called Nine Days to Change the World 536 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: about John Paul the Second going Home in nineteen seventy nine, 537 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: and they were thrilled that we were doing it. The 538 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: poster says in Polish, for Poland to remain Poland, two 539 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: plus two must always equal four. And it is a 540 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: repudiation of the situation ethics, the state and the academics. 541 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: You're a birthing person, you're not a mother. Well, that's 542 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: a pretty fundamental fight about the very nature of reality, 543 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: and it actually is in a sense. The response to orwell, 544 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: where the government torturer says to the citizen, if the 545 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: state tells you it equals five, it equals five. And 546 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: if we tell it equals three, equals three, because we 547 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: fine truth. And in a sense, I think what you 548 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: and I are describing is no truth defines itself and 549 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: we are the vehicles of explaining it. But these people 550 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: who think that they can invent a new truth are 551 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: totally crazy because it's a denial of the real world. Well, 552 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: but you see at this point it's demonic as well. 553 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: I describe, as you know, in one of the chapters 554 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: in The War on the West, I describe that there 555 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: was actually this movement that started online to try to 556 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: prove that two plus two equals four is a racist trope, 557 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: and that it is a white trope, that it is 558 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: the product of white maths. And these activists started to 559 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: say that actually two plus two should equal something else. 560 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: They wanted to prove that it could equal something else, 561 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: and various mathematicians, including math teachers in the American schools, 562 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: joined in to try to prove the two plus two 563 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: equals five. They actually did this nude and simply to 564 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: poke white people in the eye at one point. One 565 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: of the originators of this project was shown the passage 566 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: you've just referred to from nineteen eighty four where they 567 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: say the one day the state will tell you that 568 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: you have to say two plus two equals five. He 569 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: was shown this, and he had the decency, as it were, 570 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: to say that he recognized that this was rather unfortunate 571 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: as opposed to a mortal threat to our freedom. I 572 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: want to ask you one last question, which is I 573 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: find equally fascinating, and that is the very people who 574 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: despise and hate their own country are very careful to 575 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: not criticize the Iranian dictatorship or the Chinese dictatorship. They're 576 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: always willing to make an excuse for Jijian pain while 577 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: they attack Abraham Lincoln. What do you think is the 578 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: pattern which it's almost like in the old days with 579 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,439 Speaker 1: the Communists that there were no enemies to the left, 580 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: because this is sort of like there are no enemies 581 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: as long as they're anti American. Yes, that's one possibility. 582 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: I think that we're dealing with enormous numbers with people 583 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: who are ignorant, and I think that has to be 584 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: born in mind, and I go into the people who 585 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: just don't know what's going on in the rest of 586 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: the world, don't know that the CCP is what it is. 587 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 1: There are others who are definitely motivated by political action. 588 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: For instance, we have people who I show him the 589 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: section where I say everybody in the past has been 590 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: condemned for racism. Accept one man, as far as I 591 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: can find, which is Karl Marx, And as I explore 592 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: in his private and public writings, he was profoundly racist, 593 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: much more so than any American hero. They haven't done 594 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: it to him. They haven't done this remorseless anti dead 595 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: white man, think to Marks. Why because they want to 596 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: tear down everyone else and have Marks left as the 597 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: only man standing. It's literally as straightforward as that with 598 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: some people. But with other people, I'm afraid mute. We're 599 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: talking about people who just don't know what the rest 600 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: of the world is like now or ever was. You know, 601 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: Throw a stone in American street and find one person 602 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: who could tell you what I tell people in the 603 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: book about the slave trade going east during the same 604 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: time as the trans Atlantic slave trade. Does one in 605 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: a million Americans know that if up to twelve million 606 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: people were taken across the Atlantic from Africa sold by 607 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: their brother and sisters. Africans that up to eighteen million 608 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: were taken east to Arabia and were castrated so that 609 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: there would not be another generation. Does one in a 610 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 1: million Americans they that know? Does one in a million 611 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: Americans know that they're estimated to be fourteen million slaves 612 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: in the world today. I've met some myself and my travelers, 613 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: an appalling abomination that is still going on. There are 614 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: estimated to be more slaves in the world today than 615 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: there were in the nineteenth century. Does one in a 616 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: million Americans know this? Does one in a million Americans know? 617 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: As we are going through everything in our history and 618 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: tearing it to pieces because of claims of racism, does 619 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: anyone really know properly what the Chinese Communist Party's views 620 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: actually are about racist Last week, one of the organs 621 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: of the Chinese Commonest part of the China Daily Music 622 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: put out a graphic on social media of Uncle Sam 623 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: sitting behind the Oval office desk surrounded by bodies and said, 624 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: America has always been about racism and death and family 625 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: separations at the border. This is America. How many Americans 626 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: have prepared for that? And how many NOE say back, 627 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: the CCP doesn't care at all about family separations. They 628 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: could ask a million a week and Muslims currently in 629 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: concentration camps about how much the CCP cares about that. 630 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: In other words, are we ready to avoid the manipulation 631 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: that is being forced upon us by hostile actors? I 632 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: don't think we are, but I know we have to 633 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: be because that is one of the challenges out there. 634 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: And as I say, the only person that's going to 635 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: save us is us. But really, as always find you 636 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: to be extraordinarily knowledgeable and very incisive than your understanding 637 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: of the threats to our bird survival, and I want 638 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: to thank you for joining me again once again. I 639 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: think you've hit it out of the park. Your new book, 640 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: The War in the West is a compelling must read 641 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: for anyone who cares about our Western culture and where 642 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: it's headed. I think you write some of the most 643 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: relevant things today, and I admire your courage in being 644 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: willing to take on things that inevitably are going to 645 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: lead people on the left to regard you as a 646 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: mortal enemy. I want to thank you for taking the 647 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: time to share with us, because you're always remarkable and 648 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: intellectual ideas, but it's been a great pleasure. Thank you, 649 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: and thank you to all of your listeners, and I 650 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: really hope they appreciate and benefit from this book. I 651 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: really do thank you to my guest, Douglas Murray. You 652 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: can get a link to his new book, The War 653 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: in the West and to his earlier works on our 654 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced 655 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: by Getting three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 656 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 1: Garnsey Slump, our producer is Rebecca Howe, and our researcher 657 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created 658 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingwish 659 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll 660 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five 661 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: stars and give us a review so others can learn 662 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: what it's all about. Right now, listeners of newts World 663 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: can sign up for my three free weekly columns at 664 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 1: Gingwish three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. 665 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: This is news World