WEBVTT - Cathy Engelbert 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.440 In recent years, one of the most popular new sports 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.840 leagues has been the Women's National Basketball Association. I had 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.440 a chance to sit down recently with Kathy Engelberg, who's 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.120 the commissioner of the WNBA, to ask her how she's 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.600 helped to transform the WNBA into a very popular sport. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:20.840 Let's talk about the WNBA as a business and make 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.280 sure I understand how many teams are there. 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.600 So starting the season, there'll be thirteen teams. We had 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.080 twelve for a long time. Thirteen teams on our way 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:30.080 to sixteen or more. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:31.440 Who's the new team? 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.360 The new team is in the Bay Area, the Golden 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.000 State Valkyries, and they're going to kill it this year 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.480 off the court for sure, and on the court they'll 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.600 be They had an expansion draft, so it'll be interesting 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:42.960 to see. 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:44.960 Hey, so you have thirteen teams. Are you planning to 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:46.040 expand to more now? 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.040 Yeah? So we've announced team fourteen and fifteen in Toronto 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.760 and Portland, and we have a process right now for 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:54.279 additional teams where we have a lot of demand and 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.120 a lot of ownership groups around the country interested. 0:00:57.480 --> 0:00:58.800 Each team has how many players? 0:00:58.840 --> 0:00:59.920 Twelve twelve players? 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.320 You've got one hundred and forty four professional players. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.000 Yeah, one, fifty six this year fifty six. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.720 Okay, So today the league is well known for having 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.040 some stars like Caitlyn Clark among others Angel Rees as well. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.920 Is that kind of competition between Angel Rees and Caitlin 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.800 Clark helping your TV ratings? And is that worked out 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:21.720 well for you to have Caitlin Clark in the league. 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.080 You know, when I came into the league. People watch 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:29.560 sports for three basic reasons, for rivalries, for games of consequence, 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.280 and for household names if you know the players, and 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.040 we didn't have a lot of household names, even though 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:36.920 we had amazing players back then and have amazing players 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.080 beyond Caitlin and Angel. So rivalries are generally good for 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.200 sports and women's sports. Sometimes it's complicated by the social 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.600 media vitriol, which we did announce. It's terrible what some 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.760 of these players have to endure. And so the hatred, 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:55.280 the vitriol, the misogyny, the homophobia, the racism, there's no 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.280 place for it in sport, and we like to be 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.760 known in sport as a big uniter. So that's the 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.840 negative part of that. But the positive certainly has been 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.120 that people are watching. I mean we brought tens of 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.760 millions of new people into our sport last year because 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:11.560 this rivalry came out of college. 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.320 Okay, well, take Caitlyn Clark. She was very famous at 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.160 the University of Iowa, and she came into the league 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.280 and she had more attention probably than anybody who came 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.280 in as a rookie, Rookie of the Year, and so forth. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.560 But it seemed as if she was getting beaten up 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.880 a little bit or being treated relatively roughly. Why would 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.640 the other players who would see that she's making the 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.480 league more visible and more profitable, why were they kind 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:33.600 of giving her a rough time. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.760 Yeah, I think that that narrative became the narrative. But 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.040 I think, you know, we have a really exciting, fast paced, 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.880 physical game. The physicality I think surprised a lot of 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.720 the new fans that came in games pretty physical in college. 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.839 But then when you come to WNBA and it's all 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.840 the great players from the best colleges in one place, 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:52.840 one hundred and forty four of them last year with 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.640 our twelve teams, we're expanding now, so I think it 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:58.720 was very physical at first for a lot of new 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.640 eyes on the game. I think there were unfortunately some 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:06.080 inappropriate plays that happened. But over the course of the 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.280 whole season, I think Caitlin really adjusted well, so did 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.880 Angel because Angel was very physical for her at first two. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.600 And I think all of our rookies or Kia Jackson 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.480 and Cameron Brink got heart early in the season. But 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.639 you know, they all adjusted to the physicality of our game, 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.880 and I think our fans didn't adjust as quickly, and 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.079 then that narrative kind of got away from us. 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.760 Now, recently, Adam Silver, the head of the commissioner of 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.200 the NBA, negotiated on behalf of the NBA and the 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.840 w NBA a contract, a TV contract for many years 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.160 that was said to be worth roughly seventy six billion 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.920 dollars over some period of time, and you get part 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.000 of that as I understand it. So were you happy 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:42.760 with that arrangement. 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.000 Yes, we actually negotiated our own deal, but along when 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.880 you partner and what I call go to market with 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.760 the NBA. The NBA and WMBA are the only two 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.240 major professional sports in the US that have essentially opposite seasons. 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.440 Were made to October. They're October to June, but April 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.680 is the end of their regular season, so we could 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.960 provide think about the disruption and the media landscape from 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.960 linear to streaming to subscription models, and we together with 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.400 the NBA can provide over three hundred and twenty plus 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.360 days of programming, So we hit all twelve months for 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.160 programming for a streamer, even if it's NBC and Peacock 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.000 er Amazon, So it was a huge advantage. We're much 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.560 more valuable going to market with them on this deal 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:27.000 with NBC and ABC, ESPN, Disney as well as Amazon, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.680 So that was a huge positive for us and we 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.760 had a great deal. It's historic for women's sports. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:35.720 How long is the contract fork. 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:37.159 So that contract's eleven years? 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.800 Eleven years and you get two to three billion of 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:40.640 that something like that. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.640 Yes, exactly. But after three years we have an option 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.840 to renegotiate around the price of that if we keep growing, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.520 because we've grown the league enormously just in a couple 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.279 of year period, so we after three years have an option. 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.080 We also have the option to enter an additional media 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.520 rights deals. I call them our Trench two deals, and 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:01.320 we're in the process of negotiating those. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.320 So you have an option after two or three years 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.960 to negotiate presumably a higher price. Yes, did they have 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.120 an option to negotiate a lower price? No? 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.320 I think it's an option to take a look at 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.120 the growth of the league, and if we continue on 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:17.040 the growth trajectory, it's to provide more value, especially because 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:18.839 ultimately that value goes to the players. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.440 So today, how are your TV ratings compared to the 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.440 NBA or your assume a fraction of it, but how 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.880 do you compare or do you get ten percent of 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:28.280 what they get? 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.839 Twenty last year we had an unbelievably historic year. Our 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:37.240 average was at one point two million, huge increase over 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:38.000 prior years. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:39.800 Two million people watching watching. 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:45.400 Average average some games TV linear. We would peak in 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.080 the US, a US only number, that's not a global number. 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.000 We have a lot of global fans too, and that's 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.480 an untapped area of growth for US. But we continue 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:57.160 to look at a huge increase in that viewership. I 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.320 mean even our draft at peak last year, over three 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.680 million people watch the WNBA Draft. Last year our All 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.040 Star Game over two million people. These were all time records. 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.960 And remember we don't necessarily compare ourselves with the NBA 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.640 or other men's sports. They've been around the NBAS in 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.640 their seventy eighth year. NFL, NHL, and MLB are all 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.080 over one hundred years old. We're going into our twenty 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.440 ninth season this year, so these comparisons to men's league 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.360 are tough, but certainly where we are today, I never 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.000 thought we'd have as high viewership as we had last year. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.719 It's often the case that these players have to fly 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.520 commercial historically. Now, as a result of your new arrangement, 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.679 you can afford to have and every team can afford 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.279 to have a kind of a special. 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:41.599 Jet or a charter program. 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:43.000 Is that part of the deal. 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.080 Now, Yes, It's something we've been working on since I 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.640 came into the league. We've been chipping away at it. 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:52.160 We offered it during certain games previously years ago, chipping 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.440 away at it for full playoffs two years ago, and 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.520 then last year because I knew where we were tracking 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.279 for the media rights. But we needed to build an 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.040 economic model to fundness. It wasn't just like you wave 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.280 a wand and you can give a twenty to thirty 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.800 million dollar benefit to someone through charter travel. So I 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.760 felt very confident, our owners felt confident that we had 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.520 been building an economic model to sustain it over the 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:17.480 long term. Because it also can't be you just offer 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:19.400 it for a year or two. We need to think 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.600 about it for decades. That we were able to afford it, 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.320 and so I felt good about that and we did 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.520 it outside of collective bargaining cycle. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.280 Now, the NBA has something called a salary cap, and 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.960 I guess a salary floor. Do you have a salary cap? 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.040 Yes, we do. We have a hard cap under the 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.960 current CBA. Obviously that CBA will be up after this 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.840 year and we'll be negotiating a new deal. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.120 You've done quite well, But there's any team profitable at 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.160 this point by normal profitability standards. 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.679 Yeah, I think our teams are making enormous progress towards profitability. 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.120 They're just growing. But what they're doing, which we love, 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.000 is because they have so much confidence in the growth 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.960 trajectory either turning around and anything, they might be making 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.040 their investing back. We have at least six teams who 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.440 are now have built, are building new practice facilities. They're 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.360 working on a lot of different things to invest in 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.080 the player experience because our free agency has become such 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.240 an important part of building a roster to win a championship. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:17.200 So they're all taking the upswing in attendance gate for them, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.840 corporate partnership money for them, and they're investing it back 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:21.360 in the business today. 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.559 How many owners of w NBA teams are women? 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.720 Well, again, we have NBA affiliated owners, independent owners, We 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.360 have an all women ownership group, three women up in Seattle. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.640 We have diverse ownership at the minority investor level. Obviously 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.280 all the NBA teams are primarily owned by men, but 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:46.360 we're making some progress there with diverse ownership groups. And again, 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.040 as we look at expansion, we look for the diversification 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:49.679 of that group. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.960 So in college basketball, the average game or the game 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:54.880 is how long in terms of length of time? 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.800 So again in women's they have four quarters forty minutes. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.880 We played four quarters forty minutes in professional or in 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.160 professional then yeah, if you pay four quarters forty minutes 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.640 forty minutes total each quarter is ten minutes. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:13.040 Yes, okay? And today is that likely to change or 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.080 the rules going to change any way shape or form 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:15.440 that you know? 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:17.120 Yeah, I don't think, you know. One of the things 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:20.000 when I came in I assessed kind of the strategy 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.679 and the quality of the game, and the importance of 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.520 the brand. And the one thing that when I looked 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.760 at the game. There's not much to tweak about the game. 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:32.839 I mean, pure shooting, pick and rolls, great rebounding, great play. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.199 People who we've brought in those tens of millions and 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.000 new fans love the game. So I don't think there's 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.000 much to tweak in the game. And we use more technology, 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:45.160 can officiating you know, advance and evolve, yes, But the 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.520 game itself, I think the quality of the game was something. 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.199 You know, it's probably the only thing we didn't need 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.480 to actually pick up a stone and totally change. 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.480 Let's talk about your own background for a moment. Where 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:55.040 are you from. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.520 I'm from Philadelphia and you were born there. Yeah, born 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.880 in Philadelphia, grew up in right across the bridge in 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.600 southern New Jersey and one of eight kids. I have 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:05.439 my brothers. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.760 I'm an only child, so I don't know what that's like. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:09.640 What is it like to have seven siblings. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.160 Yeah, it's crazy, especially five brothers three older, so I 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.840 was their fourth and everything from whiffleball to soccer, to hockey, 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:21.359 street hockey to basketball. Grew up very athletic family, very competitive, 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:23.400 like my sister and I would compeach you and I 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.560 are only thirteen months apart, compete for everything, including food, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.440 and we'd hide food in our rooms because the brothers 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.200 would steal all the food. So it was a fun upbringing. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.320 Continues to be very close knit family. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:39.080 Oh what did your father do to support a family 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:39.960 of eight children? 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.720 So my father worked for RCA and was an IT 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.160 guy and early like we used to have the punch cards, 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.960 he'd bring punch cards home, an early it kind of manager. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.320 Unfortunately died young in nineteen eighty seven. But my mom 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.240 worked for sixty two years for the same place for 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.120 a pediatrician as their office manager as that business grew. 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.280 So you know, both my parents worked, and my mom, though, 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.520 you know, was able to balance it all and raise 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:05.920 eight children on the way. 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.480 You were an athlete in high school? Yes, and what 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:09.280 sports did you play? 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.720 So? I actually played tennis, basketball on lacrosse in high school, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.520 and I was recruited for lacrosse in college. I was 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.040 a walk on for basketball. Back in the mid eighties, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.240 you could play two sports in college at a D 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.880 one level. Today you can't do that, But back then 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:24.720 I played both lacrosse and basketball. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.000 So you were the captain of both teams. Yes, you're 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.560 playing two sports and eventually you have to graduate. So 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.400 you graduate, and you said, I want to be in 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.640 sports or I want to be going to Deloitte. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.440 Well, actually it all dates back to sophomore year when 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.280 I was a computer science major and I had to 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.480 take a programming course in Fortran and I said, I 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.920 have no idea what that professor's talking about. Someone said, 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.319 there's this thing called the Business School, Cathy, you should 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.800 transfer to it. And there's something called accounting and it's 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.040 the language of business, and you'll get a job. Because 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.040 it was the big eight accounting firms back then, so 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.760 I didn't know who said it was the language of business. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.560 I found out later that was Warren Buffett, and you'll 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.640 get a job. I got a job pretty easily back 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:10.240 then and started with Deloitte. 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.600 In those days, I can't imagine that women were being 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.360 seen as potential CEOs of big accounting firms. So as 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.480 you imagine when you started you would be the CEO. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.360 No, because I think at the partner ranks when I started, 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.680 it was probably five percent women partners, so it was 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.400 pretty new, you know, as far as the trajectory for women. 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.120 Never thought that I would be the CEO. Never aspired 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.640 to be the CEO quite frankly, but your specialty was what? 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.440 So my specialty back then was I worked in a 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:43.240 variety of clients, growing up manufacturing snls back during the 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.760 SNL crisis. Bank I settled more once I had my kids, 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.000 in the pharmaceutical sector as well as consumer products. But 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:53.319 I was a derivative financial instrument specialist at the firm, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:58.160 which gave me tons of tons of valuation expertise. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.640 You were the CEO of Deloitte, which is one of 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.600 the largest service providers in the United States and accounting, 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.920 an audit firm, among other services, and you did that 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.400 quite well for quite a while, and all of a 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.400 sudden you're approached by the WNBA about being the commissioner. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.040 What made you think you would want to do that 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.439 and what made them think that you could do that? 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.360 Well, it's an interesting question. So it didn't seem to 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:22.800 make a lot of sense to a lot of people 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.719 unless you had come to my office at Deloitte and 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.160 saw basketballs all behind me. So I played college basketball 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.720 for now Naysmith Hall of Fame coach Muffett mcgahol, who 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.679 went on too great success at Notre Dame. I went 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:37.040 to Little Lehigh University and my father was actually drafted 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.959 into the NBA in nineteen fifty seven by the Detroit Pistons. 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.000 So we had a lot of basketball DNA in the family. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.000 And so when I was my term was ending at Deloitt, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.320 I really said, you know, what do I want to 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.840 do next? I want to do something different, something with 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.040 the broad women's leadership platform and something I had a 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.280 passion for, thinking maybe it would take me to a 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.600 college or university. And then someone coach me about the 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.600 WNBA commissioner job, and I said, definitely is something different, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.760 broad women's leadership platform and certainly a game. I have 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:09.839 a huge passion for the game. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.240 How long had you been the CEO of Deloitte? 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.079 So I'd been at delott for over three decades, thirty 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.960 three years, and I'd been the CEO for a little 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.680 over four year terms four years. I took over a 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.120 little earlier than usual and then your terms up and 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.160 it's time to move on. And could have stayed at 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.400 Deloitte senior partner, but really wanted to do something in 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.640 kind of a second act and this was it. 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.280 And did you stay connected to sports by playing on 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.600 weekends or anything? Like that, or you didn't have time. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.800 For that, not really raising two kids, you know, having 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.120 a career. I did coach my daughter's travel basketball team 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.440 from middle school during middle school. I stay connected that way, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:49.440 but just a big fan of sports. 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.520 So now, how many years have you been the commissioner? 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.200 Five and a half so almost six now. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.400 Any regrets about taking the job. 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.800 No regrets at all. This was a really good fit 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:03.960 for me personally, professionally, and just enjoy the game so much. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.080 I could go to a game every day and it's 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.480 just been a total transformation of a league that was 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.280 just surviving five six years ago and now thriving. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.680 So what do you do outside of the job you 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.000 have now? Are you any corporate boards or this is 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:20.000 what you're doing full time? 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.120 Or no? I am on corporate boards. That was one 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:23.880 of the things that was important to me, given my 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.400 long history at Deloyd. So I'm on the board of McDonald's. 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.120 And one of the reasons I wanted McDonald's was not 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.440 necessarily because I love Hamburgers, although I do. I want 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.840 to be consumer brand because now I'm running a consumer 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.440 brand called the WNBA, and it's been helpful to see 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.920 their digital their consumer base their globalization and everything. And 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:43.880 then I'm on the board of Royalty Farmer, which is 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.320 a public company as well, and then I play. My 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:48.800 passion now is golf. 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.560 So I don't play golf because it's too humiliating to me. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.000 It's a hard game. I took it up when I 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.720 became the CEO of Deloitte. So I was fifty when 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.640 I took it up. And it was because I would 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.120 be in CEO's offices and they would be talking golf 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.040 or they'd have golf decorations in their office. I'd ask 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.080 them about it. Do you play? I played a little 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.400 bit and then started playing a lot and got pretty 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.440 good at it and got invited to the at and 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.920 T Pebble Beach Pro Am and the American Express. And 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.640 now I just love being in that environment with all 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.000 my former CEO colleagues. And it's a lot of fun now, 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:23.760 but it isn't great. And I tell a lot of 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.960 women take up golf, you know. It's a great way 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:29.880 to build relationships in the corporate world. 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.320 Recently, in spring training, I went into a batting cage 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.040 and they found the picture who could throw the ball 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.040 between three and four miles an hour as slow as possible, 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:39.760 and I actually hit a couple of ground balls to 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.600 everybody's amazement. Do you ever go on the court and say, well, look, 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.840 I played at Lee High. I was a star there. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:46.320 Let's have a little shoot around. 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.680 You ever do that all the time? I passed by 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.240 in the practice facilities or as I'm walking in arena 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.040 the rack of basketballs, and I'm like, and I'll usually 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.240 have heels on, so it's a little challenging, but I'll 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.800 always take a ball and shoot a few, and the players, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:01.200 I think it does give you a little credit that 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.160 you played the game, not at the level they're playing at, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.480 but playing for Muffett McGraw and Nasmith Hall of famer. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.159 My dad played for Jack Ramsey, doctor Jack, who was 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.600 a Naismith Hall of Famer. So just having a little 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.360 bit of that basketball DNA is helpful. 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.640 In the NBA, many of the stars, now not all, 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.720 but many of the stars come from Europe or other 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.159 places outside the United States. Do you have many players 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:21.520 coming from outside the United States. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:28.480 We've got players from Germany, Canada, Australia, France, Spain, Africa. Yeah, 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.320 so we're starting to globalize our ranks. But they're not 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.560 quite where the NBA has been, again the NBA being 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.959 fifty plus years older than US, but it's starting to increase. 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.720 And I think the US's dominance in the Olympics. The 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.719 women just won their eighth consecutive gold medal in basketball 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.560 in the Paris Olympics, and I think that dominance has 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.560 helped lift other programs around the world, such as France 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.800 almost the only lost by two to the US. So 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.359 a lot of these programs around the world have invested 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.760 in their grassroots and youth football such that they're getting 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:02.359 really good. 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.159 And today, when you were trying to get sponsors, is 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.840 it much different for the teams to get sponsored much 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.080 easier than it used to be, or the the league 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.160 negotiate sponsor deals, or each team does its own sponsor deal. 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.679 Both. We have national league sponsor deals, we have global deals, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:22.040 and then there's local deals for teams to negotiate as 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.720 long as it doesn't block a category at the national level. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.359 And so one of the things that's so interesting to 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:28.960 me when I came in the league, and I didn't 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.520 know this because I was off at Deloitte in a 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.600 very different industry, is that someone told me my first 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.480 day on the job that less than one percent of 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.120 all corporate partnership money spent on sports is women's sports. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.840 And my first question David, as a good prior accountant, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.600 was what's the denominator? Because if we were to move 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.679 that a couple hundred basis points, how much do we 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.120